Matthew Hussey: “I Wish I Knew THIS When I Was Single” - How To HEAL The #1 Pattern BLOCKING LOVE

Matthew Hussey 0:00 At a certain point, it becomes about deciding what we really want. What's the thing I'm trying to get? Am I trying to serve my ego in love, or am I trying to serve my soul?

Lewis Howes 0:09 One of the most sought-after dating and relationship experts in the world, a New York Times bestselling author, creator of the number one relationship advice YouTube channel, and over 382 million channel views, the Heart Doctor himself, Matthew Hussey.

0:27 What is a woman truly saying if they say, "I don't like nice guys"?

Matthew Hussey 0:31 They're saying that my nervous system does not produce the effect that I call love around people who do not send it into some kind of fight or flight response. This is not just a female pattern. This is a people pattern. Why is it that we respond to people who treat us poorly? By changing these patterns and healing these wounds, you will find yourself in a place where better and better relationships are available to you because people will start to see you. You'll start to attract a different quality of person.

Lewis Howes 1:08 If you could give your 18-year-old self three pieces of advice about love that you wish you would've known then that you know now, what would those three things be?

Matthew Hussey 1:16 Um, I think the first thing I would say is... It makes me emotional as I say it, because I think that that's-

Lewis Howes 1:24 Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring Matthew Hussey in the house. My man. Good to see you, brother.

Matthew Hussey 1:32 It's good to see you.

Lewis Howes 1:33 I'm excited, man. This is, this is our first ever interview in the... I don't know what I, I don't know what I'm gonna call this yet. The Greatness basement? I don't know what this is. The, the, uh-

Matthew Hussey 1:43 Greatness base? I li-

Lewis Howes 1:43 ... the Dungeon of Greatness

Matthew Hussey 1:44 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:45 Or something like that, you know?

Matthew Hussey 1:46 I like it.

Lewis Howes 1:47 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:47 It's very cozy.

Lewis Howes 1:48 Yeah, it's nice, right?

Matthew Hussey 1:49 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:49 Yeah. So welcome to my home, and to my home studio. Very excited about this.

Matthew Hussey 1:54 It's so nice to be... I, I always think it's funny speaking to you like this, 'cause we have, for every one conversation we have on the air, so to speak-

Lewis Howes 2:04 Uh

Matthew Hussey 2:04 ... we have, like, 200- [laughs]

Lewis Howes 2:05 I know, I know

Matthew Hussey 2:06 ... off.

Lewis Howes 2:07 So many.

Matthew Hussey 2:07 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 2:07 We travel the world together at different things.

Matthew Hussey 2:10 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 2:10 We've been all over the, the place together. We-

Matthew Hussey 2:12 Yeah

Lewis Howes 2:12 ... we've known each other for what? I don't know, eight or nine years maybe? You think?

Matthew Hussey 2:16 Yeah, a long ti- y- it must be 10

Lewis Howes 2:17 Maybe 10 years

Matthew Hussey 2:17 ... closer to 10.

Lewis Howes 2:18 10 years.

Matthew Hussey 2:18 It's crazy.

Lewis Howes 2:20 Close to 10. And, uh-

Matthew Hussey 2:21 And it's fun, 'cause for me, I get to see you, like... I get to step back into your world where you're a master-

Lewis Howes 2:27 Uh-huh

Matthew Hussey 2:27 ... and just watch you experience you doing your thing

Lewis Howes 2:30 That's fun. Well, you, you see me doing this with you e- every time we hang out. We're just asking each other questions and, and trying to understand the meaning of life, and-

Matthew Hussey 2:36 Yeah

Lewis Howes 2:36 ... how we've ruined ourselves in previous relationships, and why we put ourselves in these situations. Which is what I'm excited to talk about, 'cause you've got a new book you've been working on for really 10 years, since your last book. This is called Love Life: How to Raise Your Standards, Find Your Person and Live Happily No Matter What. H- not happily ever after, which is pretty cool. And you and I are now finally in healthy, conscious, loving, abundant relationships that bring us a lot of joy and peace. Uh, but we, you know, we went through different challenges of trying to discover who we are, how we can build ourselves up to really attract and learn how to choose the right person for us.

Matthew Hussey 3:17 Mm.

Lewis Howes 3:17 It took us both a long time, but we did it, so congratulations. [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 3:22 Congratulations.

Lewis Howes 3:23 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 3:23 Yeah, you were of course at my wedding-

Lewis Howes 3:25 It was amazing, man

Matthew Hussey 3:26 ... with, uh, Audrey, or with Audrey on, uh... back at the end of last year-

Lewis Howes 3:30 Yeah, it was amazing, man

Matthew Hussey 3:30 ... which was amazing.

Lewis Howes 3:31 It's amazing, man.

Matthew Hussey 3:32 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 3:32 Um, and so what I wanna, what I wanna ask you about today is, is how do we become the person that we need to be to attract the right person in a relationship to become happily happy no matter what? And I, and I think a lot of the, the things I wanna talk about today is, one, becoming the person you need to be to attract the right person. What do we need to do to become that person? However, when you become that person, you create a lot of opportunities. You, you start to attract a lot of interesting people in your life when you become more of a high-value human being, right? When you build your confidence, when you develop clearer boundaries and values for yourself, when you're taking care of your health, when you're clear on your mission or the career you wanna go after, when you're full of love and energy and passion, you start to become very attractive. You attract a lot of opportunities. It's almost like people just reach out to you and say they wanna go out with you. They'll message you online.

Lewis Howes 4:31 Like, this will just start to unfold when you really take care of self first. So that'll be step one. How do you build yourself up to attract the ultimate person for you and your future self? And then step two, how do you, in a sea of opportunities, of individuals that are now in front of you because you have developed yourself as a, a high-value human for a relationship, how do you know when to choose and h- who to choose? When there could be so many great people in front of you that you might be dating or meeting, how can you actually make the choice that you know is gonna be great for you for the next 10, 20, 50 years potentially in an intimate relationship? That's part two. And also, I wanna ask you, you've coached, I don't know, hundreds of thousands of women online through your, through your coaching program, your live events, millions in your social media, in your YouTube. And I'm also curious, have you ever met women who have been in multiple relationships at the same time who are actually happy and fulfilled with their life? I'm gonna ask you that as well later. So have you ever met women who are like, "I'm in an open relationship, I've got four boyfriends and one main boyfriend, and my life is amazing" over a s- a span of five, 10, 20 years? I don't even know if that's possible. So curious, I'm gonna wait for you to answer that one, but first off, how do we become the person we need to be to attract the right person for us in love?

Matthew Hussey 6:05 I wanna challenge first the idea that when we become the person that we want to, need to become in order to attract the love that we want, that we attract many more people.

Lewis Howes 6:23 Oh.

Matthew Hussey 6:24 Because m- my experience has been that often in order to attract what you really need, you have to give something up.

Lewis Howes 6:36 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 6:38 And often the thing that you have to give up is the kind of attention that you have been used to. We all have our favorite way of getting attention in life, right?

Lewis Howes 6:55 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 6:55 We-

Lewis Howes 6:57 Our thing, our trick

Matthew Hussey 6:58 ... we, our thing, yeah.

Lewis Howes 6:59 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 6:59 It's like our magic trick.

Lewis Howes 7:00 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 7:00 What's our magic trick?

Lewis Howes 7:01 I got a six-pack. Let me be shirtless and post that. Uh, you know, I'm, I make a lot of money. Let me-

Matthew Hussey 7:05 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 7:05 ... show the money that I have in certain ways, or I'm funny, let me be funny, or whatever it is, right?

Matthew Hussey 7:10 That's exactly right. And, and that becomes our kind of known way of guaranteeing a certain level of attention, and different people can do it to different degrees. You know, some people have a very easy time getting attention. Other people have a hard time getting attention. But the principle holds across people. We have our favorite way of getting attention, and like you said, for some people it's physical. For some people it's their sense of humor. For other people it's their achievements in life.

Lewis Howes 7:41 Right, their intellect or whatever, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 7:42 And we tend to display the thing that we know guarantees us a certain level of attention, and that often becomes the thing that we end up complaining about because, uh, while it works to get us attention, we often resent, in the end, the kind of attention we're getting.

Lewis Howes 8:01 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 8:02 I don't want people who just think that I am funny and don't really see me for who I am. Uh, you know, that-

Lewis Howes 8:10 Mm

Matthew Hussey 8:10 ... robs me of a real connection. I don't want someone who just wants me for my looks or just wants me for sex or just wants me because I earn a lot of money. So we, we end up resenting-

Lewis Howes 8:24 Mm

Matthew Hussey 8:24 ... the situation that w- in some way we construct for ourselves. And, and at a certain point, it becomes about deciding what we really want. What's the thing I'm trying to get? Am I trying to serve my ego in love or am I trying to serve my soul? Am I trying to f- you know, have quantity or am I trying to have quality of connection, of love, of teamwork? You know, what is it I'm really looking for? And I think because a lot of us haven't truly decided that, we are still doing the thing that gets us the easiest or most obvious result.

Lewis Howes 9:09 Sure.

Matthew Hussey 9:09 The one we know how to get.

Lewis Howes 9:10 So we're still going broad of trying to get, like, a lot of attention from as many people as possible as opposed to focusing on being intentional about the type of person we want to attract. Is that what-

Matthew Hussey 9:20 Yeah, exactly. And by the way, the person, some people listening to this might not relate to using their, you know, magic trick to, uh... And, and of course it's not a trick. It's that that thing you're showing may be a very attractive quality that you have, but it's not all of you, and you don't necessarily wanna bring someone in just on that thing because now you're engineering-

Lewis Howes 9:42 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 9:42 ... your love

Matthew Hussey 9:43 life to get just people who value that thing, and that thing might not really be you, or it might be something that is quite superficial, or it might attract very superficial people.

Lewis Howes 9:52 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 9:52 So-

Lewis Howes 9:53 That's interesting

Matthew Hussey 9:53 ... it's, it, you know, some people won't relate to going broad in the sense of like, "I love how much attention this thing gets me." It might be more fundamental than that, which is that, "I'm afraid that if I stop using this thing, I'll be invisible." The-

Lewis Howes 10:09 Mm

Matthew Hussey 10:09 ... they might feel like the only attention they get is for this thing and that if I were to sacrifice that, I, I don't know if I'll ever attract anyone again.

Lewis Howes 10:19 Wow.

Matthew Hussey 10:19 And so that, that speaks to a much m- braver approach that at some point we might have to take in our love life-

Lewis Howes 10:29 Mm

Matthew Hussey 10:29 ... which is putting, laying down the weapons that we know how to use-

Lewis Howes 10:33 Right

Matthew Hussey 10:33 ... so that we can start to attract someone who sees us for who we really are, who loves us or likes us initially without all of that, who is open to a relation... It's like a, a, you know, a guy who complains about always attracting people who want him for his m- money, and why on a first date do you keep going to five-star restaurants?

Lewis Howes 10:58 Right. [laughs] Right, right, right.

Matthew Hussey 10:59 Why don't you go to the, like, family-run ramen joint down the street?

Lewis Howes 11:03 Sure.

Matthew Hussey 11:03 Like, it's, ju- the food's amazing. Why do, you know, what are you s- what are, why do... You know, I've, I, and I've had-

Lewis Howes 11:08 Why do you wanna impress with that, that magic trick you have? Yeah

Matthew Hussey 11:11 ... yeah, and some people will say, "Well, that's because that's what I like to do. I like to go to nice restaurants, and I like..." And that's fine, but you don't have to do that. You could do that every other night of the week.

Lewis Howes 11:21 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 11:21 You don't have to do it on a first date.

Lewis Howes 11:22 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 11:22 And if you feel like you have to do it on a first date, then you have to suspect yourself, w- why do I feel the need to lead with this? The, the same is true if you find yourself within five to 10 minutes of a date, you've already slipped in some humble brag about your career. Why did you feel the need to do that? It's worth exploring.

Lewis Howes 11:42 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 11:42 We all do it. I'm, there's no judgment.

Lewis Howes 11:44 Right.

Matthew Hussey 11:44 We all do it. We, you know, but, but why did I feel the need to do that? Why didn't I just connect with this person?

Lewis Howes 11:51 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 11:52 There's a big difference between impressing and connecting.

Lewis Howes 11:54 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 11:55 And-

Lewis Howes 11:55 What is the difference between impressing and connecting in relationships?

Matthew Hussey 11:57 Well, I think impressing is this, it, it's often about ego. Sometimes it comes from an insecure place. Think it comes from a place of thinking that this thing that makes me impressive is- What makes me valuable. It's what makes me worthy, and so I wanna make sure that you know that I am this thing, or I have this thing, or I've achieved this thing, or I'm capable of this thing. And, and so we lead with that. But impressing is really about us, isn't it? It's not about them, it's about us. I want you to see me-

Lewis Howes 12:29 Mm

Matthew Hussey 12:29 ... in a certain way.

Lewis Howes 12:30 Sure.

Matthew Hussey 12:30 Whereas connecting is really about them. Uh, connecting is, is when we genuinely f- we don't just relate to someone else, but we make ourselves relatable to them. There's a book called On Writing Well, call- uh, by William Zinsser, very famous book on writing. And he... And it's actually a book about tips for writing nonfiction. And he says that whenever he reads a writer, he often finds that in the first paragraph, it's just them trying to impress. It's just them-

Lewis Howes 13:10 Mm

Matthew Hussey 13:10 ... wanting to, like, be clever, have this very wordy, flowery, you know, show their vocab, show their s- amazing sentence structure. And, and he says, but buried, like, three paragraphs in, he'll often find a detail or something that writer says that makes him go, "Aha, a human."

Lewis Howes 13:30 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 13:31 And he said it lands as good writing the moment he gets that feeling of, "Aha, a human." And if you think about the way we connect with people, if you think all the way back to the beginning of your relationship or any date you go on, it really, a connection is born the moment that someone else feels, has that moment. It's like you're, speaking is, uh, uh... What did Christopher Hitchens say? He said, like, "Speaking is publishing in real time."

Lewis Howes 14:02 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 14:02 You're always publishing while you're speaking. And so when you're with someone and they say something, and you just almost breathe a s- like that sigh of relief of going, "Oh, I get you."

Lewis Howes 14:14 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 14:14 "Oh, I've felt that before."

Lewis Howes 14:15 Right. Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 14:15 "Oh, I know what that's like. Oh, that's like how I th- think or feel or relate to the, to life or the world," then we go, "Aha, a human." And when we feel that, we connect.

Lewis Howes 14:28 Interesting. So it's-

Matthew Hussey 14:29 And connecting takes us away from impressing.

Lewis Howes 14:31 Uh-huh. Impressing sounds like trying to be perfect, whereas connecting sounds like trying to be real and authentic.

Matthew Hussey 14:39 Y- yes, exactly. Or I think connecting comes from being real and authentic, and impressing is, is what we do when we go in like we have something to prove.

Lewis Howes 14:49 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 14:50 And if you go, if you approach anyone less from a place of I've got something to prove and more from a place of I wanna find the human in you and I wanna show the human in me, and if we do that, then we're just gonna enjoy each other's company, and that's the, that's, like, the highest goal-

Lewis Howes 15:06 Yeah, it is

Matthew Hussey 15:06 ... is that we enjoy being around each other. Not that I have some kind of power over you by impressing you, so now I could... You've put me on a pedestal, and now from that pedestal, I feel like I'm in control and I can control the dynamic here. 'Cause that's what so much of that is, isn't it? It's like if I'm impressive-

Lewis Howes 15:24 Mm

Matthew Hussey 15:24 ... then it gives me a sense of control. But if instead I come to connect, it's like we're really relating to each other, and, and the, the power isn't my power over you. The power of the situation is that we really enjoy spending time together. You and I are friends, and the reason we love spending time together is not 'cause, you know, we come over to each other's houses and impress each other. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 15:49 Right, right, right, right.

Matthew Hussey 15:50 It's we're friends because we, when we hang out, it f- we're, we're enjoying each other's company, and that comes from-

Lewis Howes 15:56 Yes

Matthew Hussey 15:56 ... connecting. And I think actually our, our love lives would be served more by bringing the connection part forward.

Lewis Howes 16:05 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 16:06 And the impressing part can... That will happen.

Lewis Howes 16:10 Sure.

Matthew Hussey 16:10 That all the things that are wonderful about you, don't worry, they're gonna-

Lewis Howes 16:13 They'll figure it out. Yeah, yeah

Matthew Hussey 16:14 ... they're gonna figure it out. And by the way, how much more powerful-

Lewis Howes 16:16 It'll be more impressive the MP-

Matthew Hussey 16:17 When someone figures out something that's awesome about you and you didn't scream about it, it's even more impressive.

Lewis Howes 16:23 Very impressive.

Matthew Hussey 16:23 It's really powerful 'cause you go, "If they didn't feel the need to make that the headline-

Lewis Howes 16:28 Uh-huh

Matthew Hussey 16:28 ... what else do I not know about this person?"

Lewis Howes 16:30 It's interesting you say that because I can't remember what it was in the last month, but Martha was like, "Oh, I didn't know you did this, like, 10 years ago." Like, she just found out something that I did in, in the past, but she was like, "I never knew you interviewed this person or you did this thing," or, "That's really cool you did that." And just allowing someone to discover things about you, I think, is impressive-

Matthew Hussey 16:50 Yeah

Lewis Howes 16:50 ... that you didn't shout it at the rooftops in the beginning-

Matthew Hussey 16:52 For sure

Lewis Howes 16:52 ... the first date or something.

Matthew Hussey 16:53 And, and, and that doesn't mean that you have to artificially hide things either from a-

Lewis Howes 16:58 Yeah, yeah

Matthew Hussey 16:58 ... place of humility. I- if organically certain things about your life come up, that's fine, but it's, it, y- I think it's questioning our intention going into a situation.

Lewis Howes 17:09 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 17:09 I think of it, look, like, I'm out there talking about a book right now and talking to lots of amazing people and people who on the surface are very intimidating, big shows, whether it's podcasts like yourself, whether it's, uh, TV, whatever. It's like you're, you're in some high-stakes environments, and if I go into those things thinking I need to impress everybody here, then I'm already, uh, in danger of-

Lewis Howes 17:38 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 17:38 ... losing the thing that actually makes people connect with me.

Lewis Howes 17:42 Right.

Matthew Hussey 17:44 Uh, because I'm trying to now be something and I'm trying to wear something-

Lewis Howes 17:48 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 17:48 ... and, and-

Lewis Howes 17:49 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 17:49 ... wear this badge of look how-

Lewis Howes 17:51 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 17:51 ... great I am.

Lewis Howes 17:53 When someone is... I guess when someone is connecting with another person the first meeting, first date, or first interaction, what is the biggest mistake they can make, you think, in pushing that person away from actually wanting to be curious about them and wanting to learn more about them? What is the biggest mistake that a guy could do and a woman can do in their first interaction of a date?

Matthew Hussey 18:19 I, I mean, something that I think there's a real deficit of these days is actual vulnerability. Mm. Not like there's sort of fake vulner- there's a lot of fake vulnerability. There's a lot of people telling like their hero's journey. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like- For sure ... where... And we all have one of those stories, right? We all have the story of when we weren't doing so well, and when this, our back was against the wall, and the odds were against us, and we were in a really bad spot in life, and then we came through. It, but those aren't necessarily vulnerable stories, because you're the hero [laughs] of that story. Right, right. It's like, look how hard it was, and look how awesome I am that I was able to get out of that. There's no shame on doing that. It's just I don't think that that's the same thing as, as connecting with who you really are- Who you- ... and what you think about. And that's like a very, you know, we have these very well-scripted hero's journey- Yeah ... stories of our life that make

Matthew Hussey 19:26 us f- sound really impressive. Mm-hmm. But I don't think that's the same thing as really connecting, and I think, and being vulnerable. And so I think one of the way, the, one of the mistakes I suppose that people make early on is never really being vulnerable, and vulnerability isn't... I always remember I did a TV show in Australia, and before anyone who doesn't know me watching this thinks that that must mean I'm Australian, I am not. [laughs] I'm English. I feel like everyone in America always still thinks I'm Australian. Really? But I was doing, confusingly, I was doing a TV show in Australia. [laughs] And- Did they know you were British- They- ... in Australia, or [laughs] Yeah, they know. They know. [laughs] But I remember this, this woman that I was coaching on this show, she kept going onto every date. She went on this date, and I was supposed to give feedback, watching them on the dates and seeing how they did and what they could do to kind of improve next time around. And one of the things I kept noticing was, like, throughout the date, she was just really laughing hard at everything this guy said, and at the end of the date, I said to her, "He's, he wasn't that funny." Right. [laughs] Like, y- you were laughing, like, constantly, but he wasn't very funny. It doesn't mean you couldn't have politely laughed now and again at, you know, his attempts to be funny, but it, but the way that you were laughing- Extreme ... all the way through the date was sort of inauthentic. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't, that wasn't really you, 'cause I know y- I know you didn't find all of those things funny. And by the way, you were laughing hysterically even when he wasn't trying to be f- you know, like it- Sure. So I said, "That in itself was an absence of vulnerability," because instead of just connecting as you were and sitting into the date- Mm-hmm ... and maybe occasionally allowing there to be a, a breath without filling every silence, and that would've been, even that would've been a moth- authentic experience. So I said to her, "The next date you go on, I, with the guy, I want you to just share a little more, you know, because you also asked him a lot of questions." That's another version of not being vulnerable, is when we just ask someone else lots and lots of questions and keep them talking. Yes. And we don't ever share anything, and I coach a lot of people who are like, you know, especially a, a lot of women I work with are like, "Men don't ask questions." Mm. And I know that if you were to watch a lot of them... By the way, that's true. A lot of guys aren't asking questions. They're all too happy to just take the floor- Yeah ... and talk about themselves. But we play in, if we're in a insecure place of not wanting to be vulnerable ourselves, we play into that dynamic- Mm ... because we keep setting them up. We ask another question, and when they've finished talking, instead of vulnerably allowing there to be a silence for that person to have to now come in and ask you a question, you fill it again. Mm-hmm. And you ask another question, and then that person says, "Okay, me again," and then they start talking and telling you another story. So we, you know, that, we actually precipitate that dynamic- Yes ... by never taking the floor for ourselves and telling a story or sharing. So anyway, for me, her version of just asking questions and, and laughing was a form of lacking vulnerability, not really sharing. Yeah. So I said, "The next date I want you to go on, I want you to be a more authentic version of yourself, and I want you to share." And this is darkly funny, but you are [laughs] you understand the context in which this is funny. She went on the date, and she told a story of a horrible car accident her father had had- Oh my gosh ... that changed his life forever, and [laughs] you know, I just remember f- being tickled by it, because it was- [laughs] ... obviously a very... This was a big story in her life. This was, like, one of the most tragic moments in hers and her dad's life. This was not, like, a second date- Right. [laughs] Conversation ... like, this is how to... Like, if, when I said be vulnerable, I didn't mean go and s- tell the most tragic story of your life. Yes. There's other ways to be vulnerable, 'cause not everyone deserves to know at the beginning of our connection with them all of our flaws, everything we're insecure about, everything we worry about on our worst days, all of the things- All our wounds- ... we're struggling with ... our traumas. Yeah. Yeah, like, you don't necessarily trust someone enough with...

Matthew Hussey 24:04 You, you don't feel safe with them enough to share all of those things. But there's other ways to be vulnerable. If you, if you share with someone something that you're passionate about, that's vulnerable. Yeah. Like, if you... Because often what we're passionate about isn't popular, or it's not cool. It's weird. It's nerdy. It's some unique hobby. Yeah, yeah. It's weird. Yeah, it's, like, our thing. Uh-huh. And it's- And it's a little bit like it's very us, whatever that thing is very often, or, or why we like it is very us. And, and so sharing something, whether it's a TV show or a s- a song that you listen to a lot that you... Like if it came on your like Spotify shuffle-

Lewis Howes 24:46 Uh-huh

Matthew Hussey 24:46 ... it would like, it would embarrass you that it came on in a room and that was on your sh-

Lewis Howes 24:50 [laughs] Right

Matthew Hussey 24:50 ... the shuffle gods really screwed you by playing that while everyone else was around. That, sharing those things and the things you're into, that, that itself is an act of vulnerability because you're sort of allowing yourself to be seen a little bit.

Lewis Howes 25:05 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 25:05 So the... You know, I think-

Lewis Howes 25:06 That's interesting

Matthew Hussey 25:06 ... these are all ways that people can be on a date with us or be in a room with us and go, "Aha, a person."

Lewis Howes 25:12 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 25:13 And, uh, it's worth asking ourselves, how m- how m- did I create any of those moments on this date, or was I constantly tight and tense and censoring myself?

Lewis Howes 25:23 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 25:24 And anything that was really me, and asking them lots of questions, which is a... It feels like connecting when you're only ever asking someone else questions 'cause you're like, "I'm doing it all right. I'm told to be a great listener and I'm told to be curious, and I was doing that. I was being really, really curious." But that go- there's a point where that goes past-

Lewis Howes 25:42 Mm. Too much, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 25:42 Yeah, because now there's not a connection here. There's a-

Lewis Howes 25:45 No one knows anything about you. Yeah, exactly.

Matthew Hussey 25:47 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 25:47 Now here, here's something I'm curious about. What is it that women actually want today in a relationship? And I'll give you context. I was watching this video online recently of some guy on the street asking a woman like, "What's your biggest turn-off in a man?" And the woman said, she was probably in her late 20s, the woman said, "When a man is nice to me." She goes, "I know I probably shouldn't be saying this-

Matthew Hussey 26:12 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 26:12 ... but when he's too nice to me, it's a turn-off." And then turns into another video of a guy holding flowers-

Matthew Hussey 26:21 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 26:22 ... at a restaurant who's taking a selfie video saying, "I just got stood up by my date. Uh, you know, we were having a good conversation online when we were connecting. Um, you know, I was taking the lead by choosing a restaurant that I thought she might be interested in by doing research on her profile and making suggestions. We were having great interactions. I was being very kind and generous with my attention. I brought flowers. I was on time, and she stood me up. And I'm trying to be a thoughtful, generous kind man, and I got stood up for it." So what is it that women actually want today, do you think? You know, and I don't... And maybe this is just this one wo- woman that was interviewed saying, "When a guy's too nice to me, it's a turn-off." But why is it sometimes it seems like when men are actually trying to be good leaders, trying to be providers, trying to show up and do a nice gesture, "Here's some flowers," pick the restaurant, you know, show up well-dressed and groomed, why is that a turn-off for some women?

Matthew Hussey 27:28 Okay. I feel like there's a lot to say about this.

Lewis Howes 27:31 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 27:32 Let's... Firstly, can we talk about the spent a lot of time looking at her profile, figuring out what she might like, picking a restaurant for the date, bringing flowers. Like that raises a lot of questions for me.

Lewis Howes 27:44 Okay.

Matthew Hussey 27:44 'Cause-

Lewis Howes 27:45 Well, let's say it was all good intentions though. Let's say it was like they were having a-

Matthew Hussey 27:47 No, no, but those are good... Those might be-

Lewis Howes 27:48 Yeah, yeah

Matthew Hussey 27:48 ... good intentions.

Lewis Howes 27:49 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 27:50 They, um, let's just take it that they were good intentions.

Lewis Howes 27:54 Uh-huh.

Matthew Hussey 27:54 It's still like I don't know if that's nice.

Lewis Howes 27:58 Hm.

Matthew Hussey 27:58 I don't know if that's nice. I think that that's like a... There's... That-

Lewis Howes 28:04 It's like trying too hard or it's like-

Matthew Hussey 28:05 I mean, it, you know, if you've just been talking to someone and you haven't even been on a date with them yet.

Lewis Howes 28:10 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 28:10 I mean, look, it's different. If you were long distance talking with someone for a month and you were having an amazing time with them-

Lewis Howes 28:17 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 28:17 ... and you were like having great phone conversations and FaceTimes, and then you show up, like-

Lewis Howes 28:22 Right, right, right

Matthew Hussey 28:22 ... the finally you get to meet in person-

Lewis Howes 28:24 Uh-huh

Matthew Hussey 28:24 ... and you've picked a restaurant you know they'll like 'cause they've told you what food they're into, and you've brought flowers 'cause you know what flowers they like at this stage. And, you know, y- you're, you're bringing them as, because it's, it

Matthew Hussey 28:36 represents a connection that you-

Lewis Howes 28:38 Mm

Matthew Hussey 28:38 ... already have, then all of that feels more appropriate to me.

Lewis Howes 28:42 Sure, sure.

Matthew Hussey 28:43 But that feels like a kind of a bit of a victimized, a guy victimizing himself-

Lewis Howes 28:51 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 28:51 ... by saying, "Look at everything I did," for a person who's sort of gonna show up to that date and go, "Why did you do all of this?"

Lewis Howes 28:57 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 28:57 "We, we don't even, we haven't even been on like a date before."

Lewis Howes 29:00 Sure.

Matthew Hussey 29:00 "We don't even really know we like each other. Why, why are you buying me flowers on a first date?"

Lewis Howes 29:05 Hm.

Matthew Hussey 29:05 It feels a bit like I don't know a lot of people that would show up to a first date having put in all of that effort.

Lewis Howes 29:11 Hm.

Matthew Hussey 29:12 And I would worry that anyone who puts in all of that effort for someone that they're just meeting up with to see if they like each other, I would worry about that person coming across a little bit creepy.

Lewis Howes 29:22 Interesting. Okay.

Matthew Hussey 29:23 So I think that that's a... And look, we're talking about a YouTube video, so-

Lewis Howes 29:28 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Matthew Hussey 29:28 ... you know, it's quite possible that someone did all of those things and then said-

Lewis Howes 29:31 We don't know

Matthew Hussey 29:31 ... "Look-

Lewis Howes 29:32 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 29:32 ... women say they want a nice guy, and then I brought-

Lewis Howes 29:34 Right, right, right

Matthew Hussey 29:34 ... flowers on a date," and

Lewis Howes 29:35 We don't know.

Matthew Hussey 29:36 But let's-

Lewis Howes 29:37 But w- but-

Matthew Hussey 29:37 Let's rewind for a second-

Lewis Howes 29:38 Yeah, yeah

Matthew Hussey 29:38 ... 'cause you said the, the woman saying, "I-"

Lewis Howes 29:40 The woman said one guy's too nice.

Matthew Hussey 29:41 Yeah. Now look, I think that's, I think that's very honest. And-

Lewis Howes 29:45 And she was like, "I shouldn't be saying this, but when he's too nice to me, it's kind of a turn-off."

Matthew Hussey 29:49 Y- yes. Now there's versions, you know... Okay. There's the version of it I just said, which I think does indicate to a person like there's something a bit off here about how hard you're trying at this stage.

Lewis Howes 30:05 Sure, sure. I get that.

Matthew Hussey 30:06 Because I shouldn't-

Lewis Howes 30:06 But it's, it could be too creepy. I get that

Matthew Hussey 30:07 ... I, I shouldn't get, I shouldn't be getting this amount of effort at this stage.

Lewis Howes 30:10 Right.

Matthew Hussey 30:10 And by the way, if I am getting this amount of effort at this stage, here's what I know about you. This isn't really about me 'cause you don't know me.

Lewis Howes 30:18 Interesting.

Matthew Hussey 30:18 So if you suddenly are... It's like a guy-

Lewis Howes 30:20 It's like love bombing almost.

Matthew Hussey 30:22 Yeah, and we... You know, love bombing is, is often there's There's can be a more manipulative or sinister aspect of love bombing that I kind of know what I'm doing when I love... I think there's a very dark end of the spectrum with love bombing, and there's a much more naive end of the spectrum-

Lewis Howes 30:37 Uh-huh

Matthew Hussey 30:37 ... with love bombing. The sort of dark end of the spectrum is someone who's really trying to get you to move faster than you would organically move so that they can extract a lot of attention and value and love from you very, very quickly.

Lewis Howes 30:51 Wow.

Matthew Hussey 30:52 But the more naive end of the love bombing spectrum I think happens with people who, you know, fall for someone very quickly, and then because they've fallen for this person that they don't even know, they are now trying on a level that is completely unjustified-

Lewis Howes 31:11 Interesting

Matthew Hussey 31:11 ... because they're responding to the story they've created in their head, not the person they actually have in front of them. And when someone feels that, they are, they can sense that there's something off about this, that you don't really know me. We've exchanged texts.

Lewis Howes 31:29 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 31:29 You don't know who I am. You don't know what I'm into on a deeper level. You don't know what I'm like. You don't, you shouldn't really know that you like me this much yet.

Lewis Howes 31:37 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 31:38 So given th- this kind of flowers and poetry and whatever, and y-

Lewis Howes 31:43 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 31:43 ... th- this doesn't-

Lewis Howes 31:44 Interesting

Matthew Hussey 31:45 ... th- th- this is actually a sign that you're projecting right now, and I don't like that you're projecting.

Lewis Howes 31:50 Interesting.

Matthew Hussey 31:50 It makes me feel strange-

Lewis Howes 31:52 Uh-huh

Matthew Hussey 31:52 ... because you're not really seeing me. And so, and if-

Lewis Howes 31:56 Wow

Matthew Hussey 31:56 ... by the way, if you could be feeling this about me right now based on how little you know me, what it says to me is you could be feeling this about anybody next week.

Lewis Howes 32:03 Interesting.

Matthew Hussey 32:03 So this is about you. It's not about me.

Lewis Howes 32:05 So what-

Matthew Hussey 32:05 So I, so, but I do-

Lewis Howes 32:07 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 32:07 ... I do wanna go back to the, to the women, you know, saying they want a nice guy thing bec- or, or that they might get turned off by someone who's too nice. So I think that's one version of-

Lewis Howes 32:15 Uh-huh

Matthew Hussey 32:15 ... being turned off because someone's too nice. We sense that their niceness is false.

Lewis Howes 32:19 Gotcha.

Matthew Hussey 32:19 Right?

Lewis Howes 32:19 But what if someone is genuinely nice?

Matthew Hussey 32:21 Yes. They're, they're-

Lewis Howes 32:22 They're just maybe not mean to them.

Matthew Hussey 32:23 They're nice.

Lewis Howes 32:23 But they're not showing them poetry and flowers, but they're just attentive, kind.

Matthew Hussey 32:28 That's a sign-

Lewis Howes 32:28 Genuine

Matthew Hussey 32:29 ... of, look, that's a sign of an unhealthy person in, in, if it's a woman saying it.

Lewis Howes 32:35 Uh-huh.

Matthew Hussey 32:35 It's a sign of an unhealthy woman. If it's a man saying it, it's a sign of an unhealthy man.

Lewis Howes 32:39 What, what is a woman saying? What are they, what is a woman truly saying if they say, "I don't like nice guys"?

Matthew Hussey 32:45 They're saying that my nervous system does not produce the effect that I call love around people who do not send it into some kind of fight or flight response.

Lewis Howes 33:04 Wow.

Matthew Hussey 33:05 It's, th- there are, when I am met with someone who does not make me

Matthew Hussey 33:13 chase, when I am met with someone who doesn't make me feel I have to earn their love.

Lewis Howes 33:21 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 33:22 When I am met with someone who doesn't play games, doesn't give me anxiety by being consistent for three days and then dropping off the radar for a five or a week, w- when I am with someone who doesn't do those things, it doesn't feel like love to me.

Lewis Howes 33:43 Wow.

Matthew Hussey 33:43 It does not feel like passion. It doesn't feel like fireworks. It doesn't feel like the thing that I think I'm supposed to feel.

Lewis Howes 33:51 Wow.

Matthew Hussey 33:52 And, you know, there's obviously so much knowledge now on where those things come from, and that there are old patterns in how we related o- to our caregivers or our parents, or how they related to us that, uh, that gets us used to a certain pattern. We get this nervous system imprint that is created at a very early point in life.

Lewis Howes 34:19 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 34:19 And we spend the v- the rest of our lives replicating that if we're not careful. So the, the great kind of challenge I think for all of us, and this, this is true, by the way, of men too, right? How many men relentlessly chase after women who don't seem to want them?

Lewis Howes 34:43 Right.

Matthew Hussey 34:43 Who-

Lewis Howes 34:44 Reject them

Matthew Hussey 34:45 ... reject them.

Lewis Howes 34:46 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 34:46 Who treat them like they're disposable.

Lewis Howes 34:48 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 34:49 How many guys are playing the friend to a woman-

Lewis Howes 34:51 Oh, man

Matthew Hussey 34:52 ... for years on end, who picks them up and puts them down whenever it s- suits her.

Lewis Howes 34:57 Ugh.

Matthew Hussey 34:57 And they're doing it for years on end. This is not just a female pattern. This is a people pattern. Why is it that we respond to people who treat us poorly?

Lewis Howes 35:08 Why do we think we do?

Matthew Hussey 35:10 Because there is something about it that is known to us. It is-

Lewis Howes 35:14 It's familiar

Matthew Hussey 35:15 ... it's, it's familiar, and we don't realize it. We think it's, we think we hate it. I hate it. I hate that this person doesn't want me, and if I could just get this person to want me, I'd feel good again. But it, what people often find is if that person truly turned around to meet you and gave you everything that you wanted from the beginning, it would've felt strange.

Lewis Howes 35:37 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 35:38 That there's something in this dynamic that is, in a weird way, safe to you.

Lewis Howes 35:45 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 35:45 It doesn't make you feel safe, but there's-

Lewis Howes 35:48 It's familiar

Matthew Hussey 35:48 ... some kind of safety-

Lewis Howes 35:49 Yeah, yeah

Matthew Hussey 35:49 ... in the familiar, and, and that's not our fault. We should exercise compassion towards ourselves for that because it's not our fault that these m- these really damaging and destructive patterns are things that we chase because they're-

Lewis Howes 36:04 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 36:04 ... it, this was created at a time when we weren't deciding our response systems to things. It was, we were in survival mode, and, you know, there, there's a, um, I spoke to a woman recently. I did a show recently where the host of the show said, "I really struggle to have hard conversations with people." Like, if I have to have a ha- and a big part-

Lewis Howes 36:28 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 36:28 ... of this book is, like, I have a whole section on how to have hard conversations. Because by the way, every relationship is shaped, i- i- is, is, is, is made in the crucible of hard conversations, right? Can you have the difficult con- conversation? Can you say the thing you're afraid to say?

Lewis Howes 36:45 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 36:46 And can you express your need without fearing that if you do, something bad will happen? And so many of the times, people end up in painful relationships, or not even relationships, they end up in painful dynamics, or they end up in limbo with someone where it never ends up as a relationship.

Lewis Howes 37:03 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 37:04 It's always casual, is because they're afraid to have the hard conversations. There was this w- woman that was p- one of the hosts of the show, and it was... And she said to me, "I really struggle to have hard conversations, and I don't know why. I just, you know, every time I go to have a hard conversation, it's like I break out in sweats and I panic, and I'm..." You know, sh- she said, "It's just, it wasn't that in my family, like, no one's really ever had hard conversations," she said. And she didn't realize what she was saying as she said it, but she said, you know, "And i- I mean, it's like my dad, for example. If I try to have a hard conversation with him, he just leaves the room."

Lewis Howes 37:40 Right. [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 37:41 And I... And she kept going, but she didn't realize what she had said, which is your entire life, 'cause that wasn't a pattern your dad started yesterday, right? Your dad's most likely been like that since the day you were born.

Lewis Howes 37:55 Uh-huh.

Matthew Hussey 37:56 So what you learned is that if you tried to have a hard conversation with your father, he would leave the room.

Lewis Howes 38:04 He would abandon you.

Matthew Hussey 38:07 So now you have what therapists call a core abandonment wound, right? That's a, this is something that's now with you, and you wonder why with this person that you're on date three with-

Lewis Howes 38:20 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 38:21 ... who shouldn't even be that important to you-

Lewis Howes 38:23 Right

Matthew Hussey 38:23 ... why it feels hard to articulate that, you know, you are disappointed that they showed up half-hour late to the date, or that they didn't text you for a week and then all of a sudden, like, reached out out of nowhere to say, "Do you wanna do something in one hour?" The r- And then you went without expressing that, like-

Lewis Howes 38:45 Mm

Matthew Hussey 38:45 ... "Hey, we had two great dates, and then you would, like, I didn't hear from you for a week, and now you're like, 'Are you ready in an hour?'" The reason she didn't express that is, and the reason it made her so terrified to express it, un- irrationally terrified-

Lewis Howes 39:00 Mm

Matthew Hussey 39:00 ... is because in her world, it's been perfectly rational. It's not... This is where compassion comes in, because we're very good at calling ourselves crazy. Like, "I feel crazy. Why am I so scared of having this conversation?" Or we get called crazy by other people. That's a favorite thing to call pe- "Ah, she was crazy," "Ah, they're crazy. Like, you can't believe what they tried to do or what they said to me." They're not crazy. The, the something happened. S- they experienced something in their world at a time when it was their reality.

Lewis Howes 39:38 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 39:39 It was her reality growing up that... And I'm p- you know, uh, I'm extrapolating here, but like I said, if she's saying that about her dad, almost certainly her dad didn't start doing that last week.

Lewis Howes 39:51 Right.

Matthew Hussey 39:52 He's been doing it her whole life. It was real for her that there was a time in her life where if she tried to express a need with her father or tell him something that she wasn't happy with, or something that she'd like him to do more of or less of, or a way that he'd hurt her, he would not be able to have the conversation and he would leave.

Lewis Howes 40:12 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 40:14 That, when you're a child, that's, that poses a real threat to you.

Lewis Howes 40:18 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 40:19 So what she's feeling now is rational for her in her world based on where she came from. We look at it from the outside and go, "I can't believe that she would be so afraid to say this thing," and she's gonna end up in a two-year relationship with someone who never meets any of her needs, who doesn't even know what her needs are.

Lewis Howes 40:38 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 40:39 Who she resents deep down because it's like he never thinks of me.

Lewis Howes 40:43 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 40:44 But she's terrified to have that conversation because for her, it, if she has a hard conversation, it means abandonment, and abandonment means, on an emotional level, not a logical level, she might not survive.

Lewis Howes 40:56 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 40:57 A- and so when someone says, "I struggle, I'd, I find it a turn-off when someone is nice," they are articulating a deep, deep pattern that has been there for a long time in their life that they didn't choose and that they may not even be aware of.

Lewis Howes 41:16 And most likely, it sounds like may- their father probably was either rude to their mother or rude to the, them as a child, or maybe had some, you know, behavioral patterns that caused them to feel rude at different times.

Matthew Hussey 41:31 Yeah. Or they, you know, were neglected and they felt like they, in order to get attention, they had to do a lot.

Lewis Howes 41:38 Right.

Matthew Hussey 41:38 Or they had to be, you know, the golden child, or they had to, you know, meet everyone's needs. They had to go out of their way all the time to make someone happy. And so, you know, and then they'd get like, you know, whether it's from the father or the mother-

Lewis Howes 41:50 The mother

Matthew Hussey 41:50 ... they'd get, like, a hit of love, and all of a sudden it's like, ah, they're like, "I feel calm. I feel safe. Oh, this feels so good." And then of course, it's right back to, you know, the next day they're cold again.

Lewis Howes 42:05 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 42:05 And you have to fight for that next hit. And so if you've experienced that, and now you're out there looking for love, you, you, uh, may very well have developed the association that love is something you have to earn.

Lewis Howes 42:20 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 42:20 Love is something that comes in fits and starts. Love is something that you're grateful when you get a hit of it, and then you have to endure these periods of someone being cold in order to get the next hit. And of course, that's, you know, what's known as the trauma bond. But it's, that's really what someone is saying. When someone says, "I'm, uh, d- I t- get turned off by people who are nice, and I get turned on by people who-" You know, give me... And we have all sorts of euphemistic terms for it, like the bad boy or the person who like-

Lewis Howes 42:49 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 42:50 ... you know, is, is super bold, or the person who is, has an edge or whatever. But a lot of the time what we're talking about is I'm trauma bonded-

Lewis Howes 42:59 Mm

Matthew Hussey 43:00 ... to people who are hot and cold, inconsistent, make me have to earn their love, their attention, take it away from me and then give me it back again. And that, by the way, makes that woman who said that a perfect target for abusive people.

Lewis Howes 43:18 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 43:18 It makes them a perfect target for people who... Forget like whether they're abusive because they're narcissists or because they're, you know, uh, sociopathic. It's, it makes you a perfect target for someone who's in a, even just a selfish phase of their life. Because someone who's, who's in a selfish phase of their life takes what they can get.

Lewis Howes 43:40 Mm. It's intermittent, it's up and down, it's hot and cold. Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 43:43 And they're gl- they're glad to be around someone who doesn't ask a lot of them.

Lewis Howes 43:46 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 43:47 So even if you don't get someone who's truly toxic and abusive, you're still gonna attract people who are selfish.

Lewis Howes 43:53 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 43:53 And those people are gonna waste your time and your energy because they're not where you're at, but you never test the relationship because you, this is, on some level, what you're looking for. This is what's familiar to you.

Lewis Howes 44:06 Man, this is so... I mean, I can relate to this because in previous, you know, previous seasons of life, I really struggled of having the hard conversations. Like I dreaded it.

Matthew Hussey 44:16 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 44:17 So, you know-

Matthew Hussey 44:18 Me too

Lewis Howes 44:18 ... looking, looking back I can say, "Man, you're... That's crazy. Just have the conversation and whatever. Just deal with it." But in the moment, you know, when I didn't have the tools or the, the nervous system to feel safe myself and I needed the approval of someone else to, to feel safe or I needed someone else to be okay with the hard conversation that I was having, and when they weren't okay with it or they would explode or they would cry or they would scream or they would, you know, not speak to me for two days or something 'cause they were upset of what I wanted to talk about or they avoided it, it would made me feel like, oh, I'm really insecure.

Matthew Hussey 44:57 Mm.

Lewis Howes 44:58 And I always had the fear of like, I guess, I guess it was being alone or it was like the person not loving me in return or me not being good enough or something like that. There was probably a combination of insecurities or fears that caused me to be afraid of having difficult conversations and just saying what I really wanted to say. And then I remember having like, you know, throat clenching and like heart palpitations over like years of being in these different relationships where I never felt like I was able to speak up. And I can't blame the other person. You know, we can never blame the other person for our decision to not communicate, not set standards, um, you know, not say the things we need to say. We can't blame the other person, but it, it always felt like, oh, this person isn't willing to accept me for who I am if I say the full truth or if I talk about the things that I'm uncomfortable with. If I'm, if I don't like this situation they will not accept me. And they didn't. They didn't accept me for my authentic conversations or my truth. But I was afraid of losing them for them not accepting me for who I was, and therefore it was never gonna work out. And it wasn't until I started to really understand that and become aware of it and start to heal that process, a lot of things changed with Martha 'cause I was like, "Wow, this is an incredible human being in front of me that I'm starting to date and connect with and meet. Man, she's pretty special." But I got to the point where I was like, but I, but I can't be willing to lose myself in order to try to have someone want to stay with me. I cannot go down this path again which I'd done five or six times in 20 years in different relationships where I, I lost myself to try to please someone else so that they'd want to like and love me, and therefore hating myself in return, resenting myself, resenting the person, resenting the relationship, feeling guilty of why I wasted all this time and energy being in this relationship fighting for it while all the while I was losing myself and losing my self-respect in that process. And it wasn't until Martha I was like, oh man, I'm gonna have the uncomfortable conversations pretty early on, right? In the first few months. I'm gonna talk about these are my standards, these are my values, this is what I want and this is what I'm not willing to deal with in a relationship, and be willing to say, "Maybe this isn't the right fit if you don't have the same or similar standards and if you're aren't willing to fully accept all of me, my past, my shames, my insecurities, et cetera, then maybe we're not the right fit." But that means I might not be with a great person in front of me, and that's a scary thing.

Matthew Hussey 47:40 Well-

Lewis Howes 47:42 But I, I-

Matthew Hussey 47:42 It's scary. It's-

Lewis Howes 47:43 It was scary but it also set me free

Lewis Howes 47:45 when I made the decision like, okay, I'd rather be free and be fully myself, authentic to myself than trying to please and change who I am to be with someone to have them like and love me. And that set me free to say all the con- the conversations I wanted to. And it was like the more honest and hard conversations I had is like the more she fell in love with me.

Matthew Hussey 48:06 Well, this is the interesting thing. Thi- this is the tragedy of giving into those patterns. Because I think, I think this is a really important thing for everyone to hear is that the past does not have to equal the future-

Lewis Howes 48:19 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 48:20 ... when it comes to these patterns. Right? We, our nervous system may have gotten wired in this way-

Lewis Howes 48:26 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 48:26 ... at a time when we didn't choose for it to be wired that way. It just happened to us 'cause that's what we needed to do to survive. But it doesn't mean that... It's not a, it's not a life sentence. Once you become more aware of those patterns you, you do have the power to have an enormous impact-

Lewis Howes 48:46 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 48:46 ... on changing them or even just how you relate to those patterns. You know, I, I re- I relate to what you're saying because I, I know that one of the things that I have come to enjoy in my life is just moments of being able to sit and read a book.

Lewis Howes 49:08 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 49:08 Uh, just, just to sit and read and to do it and, you know, it doesn't matter if, if my wife Audrey is there, but just to feel like it's the same as if I was only on my own. In other words, I just feel like I'm in my own company and able to fully relax doing that-

Lewis Howes 49:24 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 49:24 ... without feeling the need to entertain somebody else. And that, even what I just said, is my stuff.

Lewis Howes 49:34 Mm. That used to scare you in the past?

Matthew Hussey 49:36 It, it's a feeling of being responsible for somebody else's emotions.

Lewis Howes 49:40 And their happiness or their-

Matthew Hussey 49:42 Yeah

Lewis Howes 49:42 ... joy, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 49:42 And so w- it would make me... I real- I had to come to terms with the fact that I was afraid to speak up about-

Lewis Howes 49:49 Mm

Matthew Hussey 49:50 ... what I needed about really silly little things.

Lewis Howes 49:53 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 49:53 You know? Not... I, I, I was afraid to say, "I really could use just a night to myself," or, "I could really use just a few hours to just read." Like, just something simple. Like, I love, on a Sunday, I love just reading or spending a few hours just catching up on, like, the news and, 'cause it's not something I do on the weekdays.

Lewis Howes 50:13 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 50:13 I like, once a week, I like to sit down and just look at, like, everything that's going on and just feel like I'm doing it at a leisurely pace and, and-

Lewis Howes 50:22 And not responsible for someone else's, like-

Matthew Hussey 50:24 Are they having-

Lewis Howes 50:24 ... activities

Matthew Hussey 50:25 ... are they having a good Sunday?

Lewis Howes 50:26 Now, what did-

Matthew Hussey 50:27 And it, it took me time

Lewis Howes 50:27 ... what did it used to be like in the past?

Matthew Hussey 50:29 I wouldn't, I just wouldn't say anything, and then I, I would become less of myself in the relationship.

Lewis Howes 50:34 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 50:34 And you know, there would be resentment from my side, but I'd also be a worse version of myself because they would feel me kind of n- n-

Lewis Howes 50:43 Frustrated

Matthew Hussey 50:43 ... frustrated on some level and-

Lewis Howes 50:46 Was, was there something you'd, like, did you try to communicate this in previous relationships and then the person-

Matthew Hussey 50:50 No, it was all my fault.

Lewis Howes 50:51 Oh, really?

Matthew Hussey 50:51 It was all my fault.

Lewis Howes 50:52 So you never tried to even say it-

Matthew Hussey 50:53 No

Lewis Howes 50:53 ... and someone was mad at you?

Matthew Hussey 50:54 No, I, I think-

Lewis Howes 50:55 For wanting, like, two hours by yourself.

Matthew Hussey 50:56 No, because it pre... Even if that was true, it predated-

Lewis Howes 51:00 Wow

Matthew Hussey 51:00 ... anyone I dated.

Lewis Howes 51:01 Okay.

Matthew Hussey 51:01 It's like this deep feeling-

Lewis Howes 51:03 Wow

Matthew Hussey 51:03 ... from childhood of feeling like I'm responsible for-

Lewis Howes 51:07 Probably 'cause you're the oldest, right?

Matthew Hussey 51:08 Probably, and you know, I, I, I think in my family dynamic, I felt responsible a lot for people's emotions and, and so it-

Lewis Howes 51:18 Mm

Matthew Hussey 51:18 ... it carried over into my relationships. And with Audrey, I would notice that something that she'd be more than happy to give me-

Lewis Howes 51:27 Mm

Matthew Hussey 51:28 ... I was afraid to say. And, and even when I did say it, I would then feel anxious having said it.

Lewis Howes 51:37 Really?

Matthew Hussey 51:37 Yeah, because I would feel like I've upset you. I, I, I've now, like-

Lewis Howes 51:42 But she's like, "No, go do your thing"

Matthew Hussey 51:42 ... I feel like, you know, "Are you mad at me? Is the, like, is everything okay? Are you happy? Uh, is it, is this..." And it almost, like, in my head, there was this subconscious feeling that there was gonna be this weird comeuppance for it. Like, you know-

Lewis Howes 51:59 You took your two hours of alone time. Now I'm gonna-

Matthew Hussey 52:01 Something

Lewis Howes 52:02 ... get you. Yeah

Matthew Hussey 52:02 ... or like, yeah, or like, "I'm gonna go and do something really fun that you would have wanted to do."

Lewis Howes 52:07 I'm not gonna invite you.

Matthew Hussey 52:08 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 52:08 Yeah. [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 52:08 Like, it just, my brain, my brain was doing all of these weird things.

Lewis Howes 52:12 Interesting.

Matthew Hussey 52:12 And I had to pay attention to that and go-

Lewis Howes 52:14 Eh

Matthew Hussey 52:14 ... th- it's n- look, what you said is, what you said is absolutely true, that if you play, if you keep doing that, it's, it's a very similar pattern to yours. It might have different origins, but there's a similarity in being unwilling to speak up about your needs and what you want. And what you said is true, that if you, if you didn't learn to speak up about those things, then you could be really unhappy in a relationship.

Lewis Howes 52:44 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 52:45 And we tend to focus

Matthew Hussey 52:46 on that side of it, that I never wanna be that unhappy again like I was in the past when I was in a relationship and none of my needs were met. But we also often don't give enough focus to the inverse of that, which is that it- imagine how great your relationship could become when you're with someone who truly knows you.

Lewis Howes 53:12 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 53:12 Like, when someone gets to see all of those little idiosyncrasies about you and who you are. Or, like, Audrey, my wife, makes fun of me all the time.

Lewis Howes 53:22 Really?

Matthew Hussey 53:23 Yeah, she's constantly making fun of me-

Lewis Howes 53:25 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 53:25 ... 'cause she's, she's like, "You're so particular, and you need... Like, when you wake up in the morning-"

Lewis Howes 53:29 Uh-huh.

Matthew Hussey 53:29 She makes fun of me 'cause she's like, "When you wake up in the morning, you really like those, like, couple of hours before I wake up, where you get to just, like, do all your little rituals and the things you wanna do." And, like, she doesn't, she makes fun of me for it, but it, she loves me for it because it's like, "That's you. I n- I un- I know you. I know who you are." And the more she knows who I am, the more she can actually be a teammate in supporting that. And so now she's such an incredible partner that she'll, she'll say to me, "Hey, do you want..." Like, she'll, she might say to me proactively, "Do you want some time this weekend to yourself?" Or, "Do you want-"

Lewis Howes 54:05 That's nice.

Matthew Hussey 54:05 And so because I'm honest about the things that, that I would like, which requires bravery-

Lewis Howes 54:13 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 54:13 ... and courage because, again, it's like old wounds and old things. Like, I feel like it's gonna go, something's gonna go wrong if I do this. I've, I've given her the gift of showing who I really am. I've given myself the gift-

Lewis Howes 54:28 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 54:29 ... of truly feeling seen and accepted-

Lewis Howes 54:33 Yes

Matthew Hussey 54:33 ... for who I am. And I've also given myself the gift, and her the gift, of her knowing how to support me better, which is a beautiful thing because she wants to support me. She wants to be the best partner-

Lewis Howes 54:46 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 54:46 ... she can be for me, and vice versa. And we can only do that if we know each other. And so that, that, we, we've both worked on that together, and it's b- it's... And that's another form of vulnerability, by the way-

Lewis Howes 55:01 Yes

Matthew Hussey 55:01 ... is sharing those things.

Lewis Howes 55:02 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 55:02 And it's... This is, like, beyond any relationship I've ever had in my life because of those moments. Not just... You know, me and Audrey have the most extraordinary connection and, and, you know, chemistry and all of those things, like, the, these amazing things. But we also just... I've never, I've never felt so seen-

Lewis Howes 55:24 Mm

Matthew Hussey 55:25 ... and accepted-

Lewis Howes 55:25 That's beautiful

Matthew Hussey 55:26 ... and loved. And that's because... And, and she would say the same, and it's because both of us have been more brave than we were in previous relationships.

Lewis Howes 55:36 Mm. How do we... But how do we learn the skill of expressing our needs and having a hard conversation without the fear of some blow up or backlash happening? How do we... If we've never done that before, had har- har- had hard conversations, how do we learn to have them without the fear of something bad happening?

Matthew Hussey 55:58 Uh, a couple of things. I think that there's... I think first just noticing... I'm a huge fan of Nicole LePera's work-

Lewis Howes 56:06 Mm

Matthew Hussey 56:07 ... because, you know, so much of her focus is on understanding that there is a, there is a nervous system response, and therefore bodily sensations that we feel that, that you have to detach from the story that goes with them.

Lewis Howes 56:30 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 56:31 Right? So if you start thinking about having a conversation with someone, your body starts to react as if there's danger, if that's your version of danger from your past.

Lewis Howes 56:45 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 56:46 And when your body starts to react, we try to kind of logic ourselves out of it by... It's very common. Self-development is... It's very common in self-development to come up with reframes, right? Like, oh, but, you know, if you have this hard conversation, it could actually improve the relationship, or it could... And reframes are really important. I, I, I lo- Reframing is something I use all the time in my life. But one of the things Nicole said to me recently that I really loved was that until you can regulate your nervous system and the sensations that are going on, you might not have access to a better story.

Lewis Howes 57:29 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 57:30 Because that's what a reframe is, right? It's a more powerful story. It, it... You know, for example, someone came to me, uh, some time ago about a hard conversation they n- needed to have with their boss. And a reframe that I gave them was that you're treating this hard conversation like it's the be-all, end-all hard conversation that you have to have, and actually, this is like the first of the next 10,000 hard conversations you're gonna have in your life. This is for... This is like one of so many hard conversations you're gonna

Matthew Hussey 58:04 have in your lifetime. So instead of seeing this like this big epic moment where you have to have a hard conversation, actually see it as practice for the next hard conversation you have to have, because you're gonna have to have many in your life, and your ability to have hard conversations is gonna determine the quality of your life.

Lewis Howes 58:22 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 58:22 So instead of seeing this as really high stakes, see this hard conversation as practice for the next hard conversation you're gonna have to have with him or with somebody, with anybody.

Lewis Howes 58:31 With anyone, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 58:32 That's a reframe. But when our body goes into a true, like, nervous system response, when we go into fight or flight, or when we go into freeze, for example, it can be extremely difficult to even have access to a better story.

Lewis Howes 58:51 So hard. So hard.

Matthew Hussey 58:52 Someone can tell you... It's like a heartbreak. Someone can come along and say to you, you know, some story. Like, what, what is... There's plenty more fish in the sea is a story.

Lewis Howes 58:59 Yeah, yeah. It'll be fine.

Matthew Hussey 59:00 It's like a-

Lewis Howes 59:00 Give it time

Matthew Hussey 59:00 ... it's a reframe.

Lewis Howes 59:01 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 59:01 Oh, there's more people out there. That's a reframe, and you're trying to give someone a more empowering story. But in their state of heartbreak, which has physiologically overcome their body, they don't have access to the truth of the story you're telling them, even if it's true. So the regulating your nervous system first, whether it's through... And you and I have done so much of this together, right? When we went to Poland with Wim Hof, what did we do every single morning? We regulated our nervous systems.

Lewis Howes 59:31 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 59:31 We did a, like, like 45 minutes of breathing. But you don't need to do 45 minutes of breathing. You could do five minutes of breathing.

Lewis Howes 59:37 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 59:38 You can find a way to slow yourself down, whether it's through meditation, whether it's through losing yourself in a different task. We could even be calling a friend and having a nice conversation before revisiting this hard conversation-

Lewis Howes 59:51 Mm, mm, mm

Matthew Hussey 59:51 ... you need to have. You- It's taking your body out of that state by regulating. And then when you've regulated... Like, I feel it. I do Brazilian jujitsu. At the end of an... Whatever problem is making me anxious at the beginning of a session of rolling, at the end of an hour of rolling on the mats, feel... I, I have access to a better story.

Lewis Howes 1:00:13 Mm. And you can communicate it better.

Matthew Hussey 1:00:15 Yeah, because my... I've burnt f- I've burnt off a lot of anxious energy. I've been forced... You know, any kind of, like, sport like that forces presence.

Lewis Howes 1:00:24 Mm-hmm. So you're not thinking about the problem.

Matthew Hussey 1:00:26 You can't. It's like being... It's like when Wim says, like, being in the ice, being in the, in the-

Lewis Howes 1:00:30 It's true

Matthew Hussey 1:00:31 ... in the ice and being in a frozen lake or whatever, for him, was the thing that, you know, took his... It was the first time he wasn't thinking about the greatest tragedy of his life, was when he was in the ice.

Lewis Howes 1:00:42 It's true.

Matthew Hussey 1:00:43 'Cause his... All his focus was just on the feeling, the shock, the pain of being in the ice. And for me, I get that from Brazilian jujitsu where I'm... It's forced presence for me. And then at the end of it when I'm laying on the mat, I'm like, "That thing doesn't feel- ... as scary to me, or I feel like I have access to a deeper truth or something better. So-

Lewis Howes 1:01:06 Mm

Matthew Hussey 1:01:07 ... the start is regulating your nervous system-

Lewis Howes 1:01:10 First

Matthew Hussey 1:01:10 ... and first.

Lewis Howes 1:01:11 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:01:12 And, and then to start to look at what are some, what are some better stories that I could tell myself here? For example, I have this story in my head that if I am honest with someone about what my needs are, they're gonna leave me. But what if... W- firstly, let me remind myself that in the beginning when I haven't done this, it's been a special kind of hell.

Lewis Howes 1:01:42 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:01:43 Like, I've, I, that r- the relationship where I didn't get my needs met wa-

Lewis Howes 1:01:48 Miserable

Matthew Hussey 1:01:48 ... it was hell. It made me so... And I, I've been in those relationships, and I know that people around me at the time who loved me were like, "Oh, my God, he's, he's in a dark place."

Lewis Howes 1:02:02 Struggling, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:02:02 And-

Lewis Howes 1:02:02 I'd much, I'd much rather be single than in a relationship with intermittent love where my needs are not met

Matthew Hussey 1:02:08 ... and that, and knowing that is a power.

Lewis Howes 1:02:11 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 1:02:11 Because i- if you've never experienced that pain before, then you're liable to get, to go back to it.

Lewis Howes 1:02:18 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:02:19 But if you have had it, and if you connect to that pain, then all of a sudden you go, "Well, I, nothing is worse than that, so I can't go back there." And then there might be a m- an also a b- very positive story that if I think of my dream relationship, if I think of the kind of conne- And I don't mean dream relationship in that you find the perfect partner. I mean, if I think of the kind of connection, the kind of team that I wanna be a part of, what... That, that's a place where I really feel seen.

Lewis Howes 1:02:53 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:02:55 And if I want that,

Matthew Hussey 1:02:57 then I have to allow myself to be seen, and that means me sharing. You might also tell yourself that, hey, this, me sharing this stuff also gives them permission to do the same, and my end of the bargain, by the way... I think this is really important. We talk a lot, you know, there's a lot of like [laughs] Instagrammable content out there now of like getting your needs met, but you're also in a relationship with a person who has needs on the other side.

Lewis Howes 1:03:32 [laughs] Yeah, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:03:33 We know it's popular to talk about when our needs aren't being met, but what about when their needs aren't being met? What about the things that would make them really happy? There's not nearly as much content around that stuff.

Lewis Howes 1:03:43 [laughs] How to be-

Matthew Hussey 1:03:44 And-

Lewis Howes 1:03:44 How to serve your partner at the highest level.

Matthew Hussey 1:03:46 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:03:46 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:03:47 Now, now, the reason there's not is, I believe, is because the, those posts are usually created by people who have experienced the pain of overgiving-

Lewis Howes 1:03:57 Yes

Matthew Hussey 1:03:58 ... and, and never being vulnerable enough or brave enough or confident enough to receive and to ask for what they want to receive.

Lewis Howes 1:04:07 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:04:08 But the other end of the bargain is when someone, when f- in finding... You're looking for someone who sees you and your needs and wants to show up as a teammate in meeting those needs, but the thing that often gives someone the sense of safety that they can do that is when you're also taking care of their needs.

Lewis Howes 1:04:32 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:04:32 People don't feel safe to meet our needs when they're worried that they've gotta watch their own, and vice versa. When we're... It's like when I said, when Audrey is, anticipates my need, it actually frees up my energy.

Lewis Howes 1:04:49 Aw.

Matthew Hussey 1:04:50 'Cause now I don't need to be worried about my needs. I'm like, "Oh, she's got me. She's got me." It frees up energy to go, "What does she need?"

Lewis Howes 1:05:01 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:05:01 Like, what's the thing... She just asked me the most beautiful question in the world. She s- she said, "What do you need? How can I be better for you this week? How can I support you this week?" That frees me up. M- it frees up mental bandwidth to go, "Hang on. Have I done anything that awesome for her this week?"

Lewis Howes 1:05:18 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:05:18 Like, this is someone who really has my back. Who el- who else in my life is asking me that question? That's unbelievable. She's just the greatest teammate in the world. I'm so lucky. I'm so grateful. And from that place, you're like, "I better be showing up for this person in the same way." Like, what, what does she need? How can I be there for you? Like, what's, what are you missing? What am I not doing enough of that would mean a lot to you?

Lewis Howes 1:05:45 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:05:45 So it's, it's a two-way street.

Lewis Howes 1:05:49 100%, and if you're giving and giving and you don't feel like your needs are being met, then you probably need to communicate, "Hey, I wanna, I need some time for my needs as well," or, "Here's what I need. Is it..." You know, and make a request. "Is this something you can provide?"

Matthew Hussey 1:06:01 And notice if you are giving and giving and feeling resentful because that has nothing to do with them.

Lewis Howes 1:06:10 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:06:11 They, they... It may come from the fact that they're giving less than you are, but-

Lewis Howes 1:06:15 But you have an expectation then too

Matthew Hussey 1:06:17 ... why you're... Well, but the fact that you're resenting it and you haven't said anything-

Lewis Howes 1:06:21 That's on you

Matthew Hussey 1:06:21 ... that's your pattern.

Lewis Howes 1:06:23 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 1:06:23 That's your work to do because there's something... I bet you that pattern doesn't just show up with this person. I bet it shows up with other people in your life too. I bet it's shown up with people-

Lewis Howes 1:06:34 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 1:06:34 ... in the past.

Lewis Howes 1:06:35 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:06:35 So we have to suspect ourselves. When we have the same resentments all the time, it's suggestive of the fact that there is a, there is a pattern that requires healing within us, that healing that could hold the key to the relationship you've always wanted. Because by the way-

Lewis Howes 1:06:52 Yes

Matthew Hussey 1:06:52 ... you'll never... Like I said, by changing these patterns and healing these wounds, you will- Find yourself in a place where better and better relationships are available to you because people will start to see you. You'll start to attract-

Lewis Howes 1:07:09 Right here

Matthew Hussey 1:07:10 ... a different quality of person. You'll start to attract someone who sees that you respect yourself. It, you'll start to sculpt the kind of relationship that you want. But, but we deny ourselves these relationships and we, and we wonder why it is I keep running into people who take me for granted.

Lewis Howes 1:07:29 Mm-hmm. This is something I used to do in relationships. I used to think that everyone in the world thought the same way as me, essentially.

Matthew Hussey 1:07:39 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:07:40 That if I'm attracting this person, they must think similar to me. They must, they must wanna give like me. They may wanna be

Lewis Howes 1:07:47 thinking about me the way I think about them. They may wanna be generous the way I'm trying to be generous. And therefore, thinking they're gonna be similar with their generosity like me. But when it wouldn't happen, I would get frustrated and be like, "Huh, why aren't they giving the way that I'm giving?" So I had an expectation, right? And this expectation left me feeling frustrated, resentful, confused, whatever it may be. And because I lacked the ability to communicate my standards through hard conversations, the relationships never worked. I'm sure there's many other flaws that I had why those relationships didn't work, but that was one thing that left me feeling frustrated, not only in intimacy, but also in friendships or business relationships where I was like, "I'm gonna show up a certain way, and I have an expectation that other people show up a certain way." [smacks lips] Or if I'm gonna be generous in one way, I have an expectation that if, uh, you know, I do something for someone else, that they would be just thoughtful in similar ways and be as generous. And when ... Some people did that, but not everyone, and so it left me feeling frustrated more times than not because I had an expectation. As opposed to just communicating, "Okay. Here's what I'm all about, and here's what I value."

Matthew Hussey 1:08:55 Mm.

Lewis Howes 1:08:55 "Here's my values. Here's my standards." Or not having any expectations at all, and being the generous person and not having, being resentful if there's not a standard met in return, and being okay with that. And so I've had to learn the hard way of, like, making sure that I either don't have expectations in certain friendships, business relationships, intimacy, or communicate with hard conversations and see if someone can meet that standard.

Matthew Hussey 1:09:20 And that's the interesting thing. That's where re- romantic relationships hold this strange sort of space of their own.

Lewis Howes 1:09:28 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:09:28 Because there's things you can do with other relationships that l- that take all of that pressure out of it.

Lewis Howes 1:09:37 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 1:09:38 Y- With business relationships or certain friendships, maybe you're not your very closest friends, but with people who are kind of on the outskirts of your core circle, you can have f- few expectations.

Lewis Howes 1:09:53 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:09:53 'Cause you say, "I'm, when I'm with this person, I have a great time. They don't really show up for me in meaningful ways in my life, but they're fun company when we get to have it, and that's okay 'cause I got, uh, other people. I've got a handful of core people in my life that really do show up when it matters."

Lewis Howes 1:10:12 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 1:10:12 "I don't need that from this person, so I don't have to have any expectations. And, and I, if I give to this person, I'm just gonna know the deal, that I'm gonna give to this person, but I'm gonna expect nothing back 'cause there's, I know that probably I won't get it back from this person."

Lewis Howes 1:10:28 Right.

Matthew Hussey 1:10:28 Our, our intimate relationships hold a special place of power in our lives because they're the, tend to be the person we have the most proximity to on a daily basis. It's the person that we expect the most from, and it's the person that, you know, we can't, we can't meet certain needs elsewhere, right? It's not like rom- it's not like-

Lewis Howes 1:10:53 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 1:10:53 ... sexually, you go, "Well, if this person doesn't meet all of my needs, I'll go elsewhere, and, you, you know, we- we- I'll mix it up-

Lewis Howes 1:11:00 Right

Matthew Hussey 1:11:00 ... and spread it around." Like, it's not like that. So we have certain rules in place-

Lewis Howes 1:11:06 Mm. Mm

Matthew Hussey 1:11:06 ... for most, you know, monogamous relationships that say that there are certain things that it's inappropriate for me to get elsewhere.

Lewis Howes 1:11:13 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 1:11:14 And even if that's not the case, 'cause that's not the case with many of our needs, it's still the case that this is the person I'm gonna invest the most time and energy into, and the most love into, and the most of myself into. And so if that's the case, by definition, it's the relationship that has to come with the most reciprocity.

Lewis Howes 1:11:37 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 1:11:38 It can't be a one-sided thing because of how much I am required to give to this relationship, how much I'm prepared to give to this relationship. So-

Lewis Howes 1:11:47 That's why you gotta communicate the hard, the hard things.

Matthew Hussey 1:11:49 Y-

Lewis Howes 1:11:49 Express them.

Matthew Hussey 1:11:50 You, you have to. And, and look, you're right. There's, people are different. We're not all the same in relationships, and you might really like this, and she really likes that, and they're different. But it's why I think compromise is important. Where might we be able to give each other a bit more of what we want? But it's also, uh, the thing that I think people fail to do a lot is view their romantic relationships holistically. So I might not get this thing as much as I want, but, you know. It's, it's like if you really like,

Matthew Hussey 1:12:26 if you really like phone calls, right? And your partner, when they go on a trip, you don't really hear from them because it's just not, like, for them, sitting on the phone, it just doesn't lend itself to their communication style. So they'll text you. But, like, being away and then sitting on the phone for an hour just isn't... It- it's just not their natural thing. So you could try and force it, but most times it just feels a bit forced.

Lewis Howes 1:12:56 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 1:12:58 Well, if that person in every other way is an incredible partner- And when they're with you, they are so present, and they text you. They... You know, it's not like they leave you. They, they don't ghost you on texts. There's a d- back and forth through texts. They'll send you pictures of where they are and what they're up to. You know, they might leave you a loving voice note. And, big and, you're in a relationship that's not long distance. In other words, the majority of the time you're together. It just so happens that sometimes they t- have to take trips without you for work or whatever.

Lewis Howes 1:13:35 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:13:36 Then it's like, "This is all r- I'm loved."

Lewis Howes 1:13:38 Yeah, of course.

Matthew Hussey 1:13:39 "I feel loved in this relationship. I don't need them to try to be good at this thing that they're not good at or they don't feel natural at."

Lewis Howes 1:13:46 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:13:46 "Because I get my needs met. On the whole, I do get my needs met." Would it, would it be nice if they enjoyed sitting on the phone as long as I did?

Lewis Howes 1:13:55 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 1:13:56 Maybe, but it's okay.

Lewis Howes 1:13:57 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:13:58 If there's... Now, start adding in variables, and you can quickly see how justifying that can become a problem. Let's say that this person also isn't good at texting. Let's say that this person's work takes them away for half the time. Now you might have a real problem.

Lewis Howes 1:14:20 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:14:21 Because you're not together 50% of the time. You're someone who values closeness. Phone calls were a way that you felt close, but fine, you would've settled for messages and pictures and just feeling a little bit involved in their day.

Lewis Howes 1:14:32 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:14:33 But you don't even feel that, and now they're away half the time. You're gonna be miserable.

Lewis Howes 1:14:37 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:14:38 So it- it's viewing these things holistically. No one is ever gonna be 100% of everything you'd-

Lewis Howes 1:14:45 Right

Matthew Hussey 1:14:45 ... needed a person to be, and there are al- always gonna be differences. But when we-

Lewis Howes 1:14:50 Seeing the whole picture, yeah

Matthew Hussey 1:14:51 ... when we ignore the fact that our needs are getting met less of the time than, uh, you know, uh, m- they're not being met more of the time than they are, and you're ignoring that, then-

Lewis Howes 1:15:05 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 1:15:05 ... then you're unhappy.

Lewis Howes 1:15:06 Yeah. In your book, Love Life: Uh, How to Raise Your Standards, Find Your Person and Live Happily No Matter What, you talk about, uh, there's a quote from your book that said, "I made a big miscalculation. I underestimated people's ability to make poor choices in their love life, even when they had an abundance of choice." How... When we have an abundance of choice, of opportunities, maybe great men in front of, uh, you know, us, or great women in front of us, and we're going on lots of dates and like, wow, there's so many inspiring people. W- where most people are struggling to find one person that they're interested in, but now you have an opportunity with lots of people. How do we choose properly when you have an abundance of choices with the potential partners? How do you know the person you're gonna choose for the next 20, 30, 50 years potentially is the one for you?

Matthew Hussey 1:16:02 Look, I think a very simple place to start is, who do I feel most at home with?

Lewis Howes 1:16:06 Ah.

Matthew Hussey 1:16:07 Like, who, who when I spend time with them-

Lewis Howes 1:16:11 Yes

Matthew Hussey 1:16:11 ... makes me feel most like myself? And I think when we listen to that, we are listening to, [sighs] do I wanna say my heart?

Lewis Howes 1:16:25 Mm. [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 1:16:26 We're, we're, you know, we're listening to our heart-

Lewis Howes 1:16:28 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 1:16:28 ... we're not listening to our ego.

Lewis Howes 1:16:29 Uh-huh.

Matthew Hussey 1:16:30 'Cause I think ego drives us a lot in our-

Lewis Howes 1:16:32 Yes

Matthew Hussey 1:16:32 ... love lives. I- you know, we chase after people who seem impressive on the surface, people who-

Lewis Howes 1:16:40 Yes

Matthew Hussey 1:16:40 ... look a certain way, people who have a certain life, people that we think are gonna look good to our friends and family.

Lewis Howes 1:16:48 Uh-huh.

Matthew Hussey 1:16:49 And they're gonna be celebrated by the people around us. Everyone's gonna go, "They're amazing. They're..." You know, and, and by the way, the person that all of your friends and family initially say is the most amazing is not necessarily the best person for you.

Lewis Howes 1:17:03 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:17:03 The, you know, the-

Lewis Howes 1:17:05 So true

Matthew Hussey 1:17:06 ... how many people have you-

Lewis Howes 1:17:07 So many people have gotten married by saying, "Oh, but my family loves this person."

Matthew Hussey 1:17:11 Yeah, and, and by the way, your family aren't all the greatest judge of character.

Lewis Howes 1:17:16 Yeah. [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 1:17:16 And-

Lewis Howes 1:17:16 Yeah, and they're not spending 24/7 with this person

Matthew Hussey 1:17:19 ... they're not. They... What they're getting is an advertisement.

Lewis Howes 1:17:22 Yeah. Two hours on a weekend or something, you know?

Matthew Hussey 1:17:24 How many, how many of us have ever

Matthew Hussey 1:17:26 spent a few hours with someone, a day with someone, and thought they were the greatest person ever?

Lewis Howes 1:17:31 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:17:31 And then w- weeks or months later, we look back, and we realize, "Oh, this was a very charismatic person who really knew how to be endearing-

Lewis Howes 1:17:44 Yes

Matthew Hussey 1:17:44 ... and was very charming. And I just w- when I met them, I just felt so good around them. I felt like, oh, my God, they're like-

Lewis Howes 1:17:52 Mm

Matthew Hussey 1:17:53 ... they're so... You know, you just felt this amazing thing. But later on, you realize, like, this person's, like, actually kind of, like, they, there was no friendship there at all. This is just a person who's really good at making people like them.

Lewis Howes 1:18:08 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:18:09 And some people are like that with your family and friends.

Lewis Howes 1:18:11 Yeah, exactly.

Matthew Hussey 1:18:12 It's like, it, it's... Now, by the way, that's not me saying if all of your family and friends think someone is bad news, you should not listen to that.

Lewis Howes 1:18:20 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:18:20 'Cause if the people you trust the most are like, "I don't, I... This doesn't-

Lewis Howes 1:18:25 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 1:18:25 ... something doesn't feel right," you should hear that.

Lewis Howes 1:18:28 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:18:28 And, and if, and again, if the people that trust, you trust the most, it's almost like on that level, it's more important that the people you trust the most s- feel like, oh, this person's a really good fit for you. Like, I can see that this person is like, they, you two go really well together. Like, they get you-

Lewis Howes 1:18:49 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 1:18:49 ... as opposed to this person's really amazing. Like, if, w- it, that's a bit different.

Lewis Howes 1:18:55 You should be thinking of, like, does this person bring the best out of you?

Matthew Hussey 1:19:00 Co- correct.

Lewis Howes 1:19:00 And if your family sees that the person you're with maybe- He doesn't make as much money or have the job that I think I would want him to have-

Matthew Hussey 1:19:07 Uh-huh

Lewis Howes 1:19:07 ... or whatever. He's not there yet in life. But if you are a happier human being in general-

Matthew Hussey 1:19:13 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:19:13 ... if you shine more consistently-

Matthew Hussey 1:19:16 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:19:16 ... if you bring out the best aspects of yourself because of this relationship, then that's something that people should approve of.

Matthew Hussey 1:19:23 That- that's exactly right. Uh, do, do they bring out the best in you? Are you-

Lewis Howes 1:19:28 Or are you sad constantly?

Matthew Hussey 1:19:29 Are you... Exactly. And-

Lewis Howes 1:19:30 Yeah. Are you constantly having the conversation of problems with this relationship, right?

Matthew Hussey 1:19:33 And everyone's experienced a friend or a family member who is terribly anxious and unhappy in a relationship, that they are desperately clinging onto, thinking it's-

Lewis Howes 1:19:43 Yes

Matthew Hussey 1:19:43 ... the most important thing in the world. And the rest of us from the outside are going, "This shouldn't be the most important thing in the world. You're unhappy."

Lewis Howes 1:19:49 Right.

Matthew Hussey 1:19:50 You know? Uh, so I, I think someone we feel at home with, someone who makes us feel like the most like ourselves, look for the areas where ego seems to be driving.

Lewis Howes 1:20:02 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:20:04 You know? I, I... And ego is often driving when you have a poor answer to why you like someone.

Lewis Howes 1:20:10 Oh, yeah. Why do you... When you're asked the question, "Why do you love this person?" And you don't have a good response-

Matthew Hussey 1:20:16 No

Lewis Howes 1:20:16 ... that's a red flag.

Matthew Hussey 1:20:17 It's, for sure.

Lewis Howes 1:20:18 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 1:20:18 For sure. I know, you know, Dr. Ramani, our, our mutual friend who's the leading expert on narcissism says one of the surest signs that something is up is when she asks why someone loves someone, and they do not have a good answer. The, the answer a- approximates to, "There's just something about them."

Lewis Howes 1:20:35 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:20:35 That's not a good answer. So-

Lewis Howes 1:20:38 And, and saying, "There's great sex," isn't a great answer either.

Matthew Hussey 1:20:42 No.

Lewis Howes 1:20:42 Just having, "We just have great explosive sex."

Matthew Hussey 1:20:45 No. And there's some prerequisites for a great relationship, right? Chemistry-

Lewis Howes 1:20:49 Uh-huh

Matthew Hussey 1:20:49 ... is important. It's not that you can say, "Oh, just, you know, be with someone who's nice to you," even if you have no chemistry. That also isn't gonna work.

Lewis Howes 1:21:01 Mm-hmm. Yep.

Matthew Hussey 1:21:02 So you have to have chemistry, but chemistry is a prerequisite. It's not like the thing you have to g- go like, "I'm trying to get the greatest chemistry anyone could ever have." It's just that you need chemistry.

Lewis Howes 1:21:18 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 1:21:19 Uh, there's a moment in the book where I say, "Don't comparison shop for chemistry."

Lewis Howes 1:21:23 Mm. Right.

Matthew Hussey 1:21:24 Right? Instead, it, see it as a beautiful thing. If you've found someone who's an incredible teammate, who's all of these things you really want, values that you, uh, that are important to you, and there's chemistry, that's an amazing thing. So am I coming from ego, or am I coming from a place of what actually makes me happy is a huge, huge, huge decision.

Lewis Howes 1:21:47 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:21:47 And sometimes we don't learn that until we have spent time with people that are less familiar to us-

Lewis Howes 1:21:59 Mm. Mm

Matthew Hussey 1:21:59 ... but make us feel really good.

Lewis Howes 1:22:01 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:22:02 You know? W- Your ego might flare up in some way or another, and, or you might be like, "Oh, but do I still want, do I wanna, like, do this? Maybe I could have someone with this, or that, or whatever." Like, it, there's a lot of that in the world, and it creates massive confusion. Instead of just going,

Matthew Hussey 1:22:22 "This feels unfamiliar, but there's something about this that feels really good."

Lewis Howes 1:22:27 Mm-hmm. I love your definition of, like, when you should, when you know [clears throat] that you're choosing the right person is someone who makes you feel most at home. I love that idea. And Martha, my fiancée, she's always like, "Man, I wish I would've met you like 10 years ago. We would've had so much fun, like, over these last 10, 15 years being together." And I keep saying to her, "You know, I wouldn't have been ready for you. Because if I would've met you 10 years ago, I'd have looked at you, and I would have not have had the same level of, I don't know if you would call it attraction or just, like, curiosity to be in a relationship. Because my nervous system wasn't built for you. It wasn't built to feel safe-

Matthew Hussey 1:23:09 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 1:23:09 ... and accepted for who I was."

Matthew Hussey 1:23:11 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:23:11 It wasn't. I still needed to learn how to regulate my nervous system, heal, reflect, a- and really go through a growth period emotionally, um, and physically really, to feel familiar with safety.

Matthew Hussey 1:23:28 And, and, and peace.

Lewis Howes 1:23:30 A- a- and feel-

Matthew Hussey 1:23:30 Peace, right

Lewis Howes 1:23:30 ... and feel familiar with peace because I didn't have the familiar- I didn't understand that that was safe.

Matthew Hussey 1:23:36 No, and when you're in that... I, I think for a lot of people, especially those who are playing the field and experiencing different people and whatever, there is a kind of... Being single is this dopaminergenic cycle.

Lewis Howes 1:23:49 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 1:23:49 And it, and it's hard to get off that cycle because you're kind of wire- you're wired for it now. You're wired for instant gratification. You're wired for variety and excitement and what next, and the dramas of the first few weeks of knowing someone, and the romance of, like, just figuring each other out. And all of that is, like... And texts, and b- phone buzzing, and, you know, this and that, and this person's now called. And it's like a frantic sort of dopamine engine that-

Lewis Howes 1:24:22 Yes

Matthew Hussey 1:24:22 ... that you get stuck in. And at a certain point, you have to come to value something else more.

Lewis Howes 1:24:33 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:24:34 Because otherwise, and this happens, of course, routinely, is people get locked into that cycle. And it was clear to me at a certain point, oh, this happiness doesn't lie here for me. Anxiety lies here for me.

Lewis Howes 1:24:48 Uncertainty.

Matthew Hussey 1:24:49 Uncertainty. Uh, it's having an effect on, on the way I see the world or myself, or this is not, this is not gonna serve me long term. But that doesn't, just because you realize that, it doesn't mean that you immediately have an appreciation of what the other thing is. Or that you even know what it looks like, or what package it comes in, or you don't know any of those things. And so you, you know, there's a whole chapter I wrote, I wrote in this book that I'm really insanely proud of- [laughs] ... because I think it's so on the money of what's happening for so many people. It's called Never Satisfied. Mm. And that, I think, is the feeling. I explain the steps of why it is we struggle to be satisfied, and the next chapter is how to rewire your brain so that you can actually rewire yourself for happiness because I know for a long time I was that never satisfied person. In relationships or just- Yeah, my love life. I d- I think in life, too, right? Right, right, right. [laughs] But in, in my love life, I was just chasing, chasing, chasing, chasing, chasing. Dopamine, dopamine. I'm not happy. I need to get out of this relationship. I, I'm single. Dopamine, dopamine. I'm not happy here. I n- you know, like, the, there must be some perfect person who's gonna make me feel differently about this whole thing, and I'm gonna feel different when I meet that person, and that person didn't come because it wasn't really about that. Something was going on with me. I was a, I was in that cycle, and it, and it... The other thing that is available to you is so ec- I don't wanna... This isn't a, this isn't a lecture on whether someone should be single or in a relationship, so I, I don't wanna become that person. Sure, sure. But I, what is so amazing about a healthy relationship is not available to you until you s- come to value something different. It's like someone who's been used to doing drugs every day, and then the day that you, that you get them to quit drugs- Mm ... you sit them outside their house in front of a beautiful field- [laughs] ... and you say, "Appreciate the sunset." [laughs] Yeah. There's no dopamine rush anymore. A sunset is ama- like- Uh-huh ... a, a sunset is an awe-inspiring- Yes ... unbelievable thing. It is something that is mind-blowing. Why do we all go on holiday and everyone at the same time goes out onto the beach and watches the sunset? Because there's something stunning and magical about a sunset. But for the person who's been doing drugs every day, you,

Matthew Hussey 1:27:41 that's not the day you can appreciate a sunset. [laughs] No, no. You, you are coming out of all of those feelings that you've been addicted to, and all of that, like, instant gratification, dopamine. I- so it's about, like, again, it's- Mm ... nervous system stuff, right? It's retraining my nervous system, and this is some of the stuff we talk about in how to rewire your brain. But it's, you have to orient yourself towards a different goal, and in the beginning, you can't expect the new thing to feel like the old thing 'cause it's not, it's not gonna feel like the old thing. But the more you lean into the new thing, it, you develop an appreciation for how much better it actually feels, and that's, like, a kind of stunning and eye-opening realization. Um, and I'm r- I feel really passionate about this because I see a lot of really unhappy people, I was one of them, by the way, who are stuck in those cycles. Mm. And, and I think there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of people who get stuck in optimization cycles in their love life- Right ... where it's like, especially type A people. Not everyone does, but a lot of people do, where it's like, "I'm trying to find the perfect thing, and I'm trying to... And, and i- and if someone's missing this thing, I'm gonna optimize and go for another person who's, like, got all the good things about this person, but, and also that thing." And it's like people don't work like that. You exchange one basket, basket of ingredients for another basket of ingredients, and you'll get new good stuff and new bad stuff and challenging stuff, and it, you... I'm, I'm a huge believer. I think the, um, settling is a word that has, has a really unfairly negative connotation, and it shouldn't. It's something amazing about that word. It, it, you can change the meaning of, of that depending on the word that goes after it. So if you say, if you tell someone, "You have to settle for something," that feels immediately negative, right? I th- It's like settling down. Yeah, because I f- I feel like I'm being shortchanged. Uh-huh. But if you say settling on something- Mm ... that changes it because you, Lewis, settled on a particular business and brand. Mm, yes. You, you're such a capable person. You could've done 100 different things in this lifetime, and you would've been a success at them. Right. So how the hell do you decide which one you should do? Y- you found one that scratched the itch in a bunch of different ways. It allowed you to be creative. It allowed you to broadcast, which is something you're really good at. It allowed you to connect, which is something you're really good at. Mm-hmm. It allowed you to, you know, harness all of these relationships, which is something you're really great at, is relationships. It allowed you to put to work your strategy mind. It allowed you to be competitive, which is something that's in your bones. And, and so it, this business f- it ticked a lot of boxes for you. Yeah. But it's not the only business that would've ticked boxes for you. Sure, sure. There, there are other things you could have done that would've ticked boxes, but you settled on greatness. Yes. And you said, "I'm gonna go all in on this, and I'm gonna keep going on this." And the thing that has made what you do so great, and what you have done is- ... extraordinary. What you've built, the, the audience you've built, the platforms you've built, the body of work you've built is extraordinary. But it's not extraordinary because you found an extraordinary thing. You didn't find the word greatness.

Lewis Howes 1:31:27 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 1:31:28 And, and, like, you know, you just went, "I've got the..." But if you'd have said to me, like, 15 years ago, we didn't know each other then, but when you started, if you'd have said to me, "Matt, I've got the greatest idea."

Lewis Howes 1:31:38 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:31:38 "I am gonna take the word greatness, and I am gonna just own that world, um, uh, word, and build a brand out of it, and do all of the..." I, I would've been like, "That's not an idea."

Lewis Howes 1:31:51 Right. [laughs] Right, right, right.

Matthew Hussey 1:31:52 Like [laughs] it's all, you've taken a common word in the English language-

Lewis Howes 1:31:55 Yeah, yeah. You talk about it. Yeah, yeah

Matthew Hussey 1:31:57 ... you know what I mean? Like-

Lewis Howes 1:31:57 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 1:31:58 ... but that's not what's made this extraordinary.

Lewis Howes 1:32:01 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:32:01 What's made this extraordinary is that you have settled on it-

Lewis Howes 1:32:04 Mm

Matthew Hussey 1:32:05 ... and you keep... You take this thing to another level every year.

Lewis Howes 1:32:08 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:32:09 And people who are looking at you going, "There's a... You've got a lot of..." I've, I've, I've walked with you in the street, in V- Vegas, on holiday, in places, on, when we've traveled. You have people coming up to you everywhere you go.

Lewis Howes 1:32:22 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:32:23 And you're a hero to so many people, and so many people wanna create what you've created or wanna be where you are. But you didn't s- you didn't start

Matthew Hussey 1:32:33 with this really special thing. You spent year after year after year making a really special thing.

Lewis Howes 1:32:39 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:32:40 And every year, I see you take the same core thing and stick with it again.

Lewis Howes 1:32:45 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:32:46 Not go, "You know what? Now what I really wanna do is, now I really wanna do real estate."

Lewis Howes 1:32:50 Yeah. "I'm, I'm over this. I'm gonna move on-

Matthew Hussey 1:32:52 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:32:52 ... to something greater."

Matthew Hussey 1:32:53 Yeah. It's not, that's not it for you. You're like, "I'm gonna make this thing even better."

Lewis Howes 1:32:57 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:32:58 And, and deeper.

Lewis Howes 1:32:58 I think that's how people should approach relation- approach relationships.

Matthew Hussey 1:33:01 And that's my point, is that you settle... When the thing that makes a relationship the greatest relationship of your life is that you take someone who ticks the boxes for you, and that's the starting point. But then based on the values you each bring, and I think there are some very powerful values for a relationship, like being growth-oriented, like ha- teamwork, like loyalty, like prioritizing the vision of the relationship. I think when you take those things and you put those two people like that together, what they start with is not nearly as interesting as what they will create together.

Lewis Howes 1:33:43 Mm. Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:33:43 And th- and you can only create that if you settle on a person. But you will never settle on a person as long as you are looking for the perfect person as a starting point.

Lewis Howes 1:33:55 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:33:55 Because the perfect relationship doesn't exist at the beginning. But the perfect relationship for you can exist over time if you settle on someone, and you resolve to make that relationship as good as it can possibly be.

Lewis Howes 1:34:11 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:34:11 And that's why I get ex- I get so excited about my relationship because I'm like, "It's amazing right now. It's gonna be even better in six months."

Lewis Howes 1:34:18 Right.

Matthew Hussey 1:34:19 'Cause we're building something together.

Lewis Howes 1:34:21 Martha says that to me all the time. She's like, "How do I love you even more today than I did, you know, last week?" And I think it's 'cause we're both focused on growing ourselves individually and growing-

Matthew Hussey 1:34:32 Mm

Lewis Howes 1:34:32 ... the relationship together.

Matthew Hussey 1:34:33 Mm.

Lewis Howes 1:34:34 And I'm sure there's gonna be adversities and challenges we face, but us facing it together makes us even more connected and appreciate each other even more.

Matthew Hussey 1:34:42 And there's something even fun about that, that when you know you're an amazing team, there's even something fun about knowing that there's gonna be challenges in the two... and how you're gonna solve those as a team because you're in a killer team.

Lewis Howes 1:34:53 Absolutely.

Matthew Hussey 1:34:54 Like, that's a, that's... Even that, there's something exciting about it.

Lewis Howes 1:34:57 Absolutely.

Matthew Hussey 1:34:57 So I, you know, I think we, we almost have to pay attention to some of these ideas we have about love and relationships, is w- you know, the way we use words s- like settling. Do, are you settling for someone, or are you settling on someone? That will change... If you settle for someone, you'll become passive and resentful in that relationship. If you see it like you settled on someone, of any choice you could have made, you chose this person.

Lewis Howes 1:35:26 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:35:27 And because you chose it, you're gonna lean into it, and you're gonna make it as great as it can possibly be, that relationship. That will change the way you approach relationships. The same is true of the word commitment. There's a- amazing... This is such a, a fantastic example of the point I'm making. If you look up, I think it's in Apple Dictionary, I don't know how it's reflected in the Oxford Dictionary, but if you go on your Mac, and you type in the word commitment, there are two different definitions that come up.

Lewis Howes 1:35:52 Like, really? What does it say?

Matthew Hussey 1:35:54 One is a, uh... I think it reads, and people can go and look for themselves and get the exact wording right, but one of them says roughly, "A obligation that restricts freedom of action." [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:36:09 Mm. Wow.

Matthew Hussey 1:36:10 Right? Now, if you, you give me someone that has that as their definition of commitment, and I'll show you someone who has a hard time ever being in a relationship.

Lewis Howes 1:36:23 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:36:24 But there's another definition of commitment under that one, and it says, "Commitment, a dedication to a cause." Now, when you think of dedication to a cause, it creates a completely different energy in your body. "I'm dedicated to this cause."

Lewis Howes 1:36:40 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:36:41 "I'll fight for this cause."

Lewis Howes 1:36:43 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:36:43 "I'll do anything for this cause." Like, there is a, there's something heroic about that. "I'm dedicated to the cause of our relationship-

Lewis Howes 1:36:53 Yes

Matthew Hussey 1:36:54 ... of our future, of our vision, of where we're going." There's something stunningly beautiful about that. Dedication to a cause, an obligation that restricts freedom.

Lewis Howes 1:37:04 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:37:07 One is about shrinking your world, and the other one enlarges it.

Lewis Howes 1:37:12 Oh.

Matthew Hussey 1:37:17 There are so many people out there struggling with the idea of committing, whether it's to a business, an idea, a path, a country-

Lewis Howes 1:37:27 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 1:37:27 ... a person, a new sport,

Matthew Hussey 1:37:33 and your definitions around these words, the way you choose to see them, is gonna determine your ability to stay with something, to invest in something, and I think that's so fascinating.

Lewis Howes 1:37:49 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:37:49 I really do.

Lewis Howes 1:37:50 Yeah. This is big, man. Um, there's so many more questions I wanna ask you, but I wanna, I want people to get the book 'cause I know you're gonna answer a lot of these questions in here as well. Love Life: How to Raise Your Standards, Find Your Person and Live Happily No Matter What. Uh, so make sure you guys get a few copies. If you have a friend who's been struggling in relationships, get them a copy as well. If you know someone that just went through a breakup, get them a copy. Um, if you know someone who's in a healthy relationship, get them a copy so they can still use these tools to improve their relationship as well. Love Life. Uh, where can they go and get this copy? Is there a way we can get some extra goodies or bonuses or-

Matthew Hussey 1:38:29 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:38:29 ... should we just go on Amazon? Where should we go?

Matthew Hussey 1:38:31 You can definitely get it from Amazon or Barnes & Noble or wherever you get your books, but, um, we actually have a website, lovelifebook.com.

Lewis Howes 1:38:39 Nice

Matthew Hussey 1:38:39 And the advantage of getting a copy through that website is, uh, we have something really, really special going on right now. On the 4th of May, I'm doing a worldwide live event, and, uh, it's gonna be a very, very special event. It's the sort of event that if we just ran this as a normal event, it would cost hundreds or even thousands of dollars. Um, w- this is my first book in 10 years.

Lewis Howes 1:39:04 It's amazing.

Matthew Hussey 1:39:05 Um, it's a huge celebration for me and for my team. It's a big moment. It's a big milestone. I've poured my heart and soul into this. I think people who read it are gonna see there's a lot more vulnerability from me in this book, a lot more s-

Lewis Howes 1:39:18 You're a completely different person. Yeah, 10 years ago.

Matthew Hussey 1:39:20 Yeah, and, and I tell those stories in the book in a way that I've never told them on YouTube or anywhere else. So this is a big celebration for us, and as a result, we wanted to do something very special for everyone who gets a copy of this book and supports us and supports themselves or someone they love in the process. So every single person who gets a copy of the book, when you go through lovelifebook.com, you'll see you can order a copy of the book, and then you can literally take your confirmation number on your receipt, wherever you got it, even if it's from a regular bookstore and not Amazon, you can take your confirmation number, put it in on the website, and that confirmation number becomes your free ticket to the worldwide event that I'm doing online-

Lewis Howes 1:40:02 Mm

Matthew Hussey 1:40:02 ... on May the 4th.

Lewis Howes 1:40:03 There you go.

Matthew Hussey 1:40:04 So yeah, that's gonna be a great accompaniment to the book is to-

Lewis Howes 1:40:07 Love Life Book, yeah

Matthew Hussey 1:40:08 ... actually spend this day with us.

Lewis Howes 1:40:10 Lovelifebook.com. So they'll get, they'll get that event for free by getting a copy of the book.

Matthew Hussey 1:40:14 Yeah, exactly.

Lewis Howes 1:40:15 There's so many great, uh, concepts in here. Again, how to rewire your brain. Um, I love the chapter in here about if you know you want to leave but you don't know how to leave. It teaches people-

Matthew Hussey 1:40:27 Huge

Lewis Howes 1:40:27 ... how to get out of a relationship the right way.

Matthew Hussey 1:40:30 Yeah, there's a, there is a lot of talk in there. That's a big chapter on anyone who's in a toxic, abusive, or narcissistic relationship, and, and you can apply that, by the way, across the board, not just to your love life. But if there's family relationships that you're struggling with and you don't know what to do about them, that's a very hard-hitting chapter. There's chapters on confidence in there. There's ... Which is why this has mass appeal. I, I, I wanna say this just to, just to ... Uh, 'cause I think it's important for people to hear. I have come to believe that there are three relationships we are all in in life. One is our relationship with other people, the second is our relationship with ourselves, and the third is our relationship with life itself.

Lewis Howes 1:41:08 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:41:09 And these are three relationships that you can't get out of. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:41:14 Right.

Matthew Hussey 1:41:14 You're ... For as long as you're here on this planet, you are in these three relationships, and these relationships, the quality of them, will determine your happiness in this world. So we better focus on those relationships. And that's ... In many ways, this book is designed not just to be a book for people who are looking to find love, but a book for people who are looking to improve those relationships.

Lewis Howes 1:41:40 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:41:40 And, uh, I talk about my own journey, even I talk about some times where I fell out of love with life because I was, you know, uh, handed some difficult cards along the way and struggled. Uh, and, you know, maybe we could talk about it on another episode, but, you know, was in a very dark place

Matthew Hussey 1:42:00 and a very depressed place.

Lewis Howes 1:42:01 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:42:02 And I, I talk in the book about how I improved ... The, the tools that I used to improve my relationship with life in the hardest times of my life.

Lewis Howes 1:42:12 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:42:12 And that, that, you know, the ... That's why the double meaning in the title of this book is so important to me. This isn't just about your love life. It's about your love for life, and it's why that last line, you know, "How to raise your standards, find your person, and live happily no matter what," was really, really important to me.

Lewis Howes 1:42:29 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:42:29 So don't think this is just a book about finding love. This is a ... I believe that this is a book that will get passed around for people who are struggling with all sorts of things in their lives.

Lewis Howes 1:42:39 That's cool, man. And, and again, if you don't have a good relationship with life, you're probably not going to have a good relationship with yourself. And if you don't have a good relationship with yourself, how are you gonna find someone that you can actually love and appreciate without being jaded on them trying to hurt you in some way? So you need to have a healthy relationship on all three areas, or those first two at least, if you wanna have a healthy relationship with someone else and trusting them in your life and opening your heart to them. So, uh, and when ... And when you get the book, lovelifebook.com to get that special event with Matthew Hussey. Um, we're gonna do another episode here in a moment, so I want people to check out part two, a separate episode. Uh, it, you know, make sure to subscribe so you can watch this and listen to this as well for part two coming up here soon. But ... And I'm gonna ask you some of those questions you just talked about there. But to wrap up this interview, I wanted to ask you about- I've asked you these, a bunch of questions at the end before. You've been on this show many times. But I wanna ask you a question about if you could give your 18-year-old self three pieces of advice about love.

Matthew Hussey 1:43:46 Let's get out my pen [laughs] .

Lewis Howes 1:43:47 You know, if you could give your 18-year-old self three pieces of advice about love, knowing everything you know now from being in multiple different relationships, going through breakups, being in challenging situations in, in love, being single and dating a bunch of people over the years, uh, you know, now being married. If you could give your 18-year-old self three pieces of advice about love that you wish you would've known then that you know now, what would those three things be?

Matthew Hussey 1:44:20 Okay. I think I got it. Um, three on the spot is hard, by the way.

Lewis Howes 1:44:26 If you imagine-

Matthew Hussey 1:44:28 I got it though

Lewis Howes 1:44:28 ... 18-year-old Matthew sitting in front of you.

Matthew Hussey 1:44:31 I-

Lewis Howes 1:44:31 Saying, "I just wanna find love, and ah, I just wanna, I just wanna feel loved, and I wanna find a great, I wanna have a gr- family and be married one day."

Matthew Hussey 1:44:40 Uh-huh.

Lewis Howes 1:44:41 And you get to sit in front of him with all the wisdom that you have now, and all the heartache, and all the pain, and all the love that you've experienced, what are you gonna say to, to your younger self?

Matthew Hussey 1:44:51 Um, I think the first thing I would say is that it's, it's not ... This is gonna sound cheesy, but I, I, I mean it, I really mean it [laughs] . I w- I would start by saying it's not your fault that you are the way you are.

Lewis Howes 1:45:08 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:45:09 That these things that you th- think, uh, are a sign that you're broken, whether it's your shyness, or your anxiety, or feeling like you're, uh, you know, terrified of rejection, or that you're not good enough, I, y- you, you know, these things are either, they've either been part of you from the beginning, or they are a response to things that have happened in your life.

Lewis Howes 1:45:38 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:45:38 You know, I'm not saying everything is nurture. Some of, some of it is just our DNA, right?

Lewis Howes 1:45:43 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 1:45:43 Our brain. But either way, you know, these things that you keep judging yourself for and telling yourself that you're broken for, they, they deserve compassion because they're not, you didn't choose them, you know? And I, and I, and the reason I think that's important from a love life context is because the, what I lacked for so much of my life was self-compassion.

Lewis Howes 1:46:12 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:46:13 I thought I wasn't good enough. I thought that, you know, deep down I was shameful, I was ugly, I was, um, unlovable.

Lewis Howes 1:46:24 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:46:25 I was bad. Like, not a good person.

Lewis Howes 1:46:28 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:46:28 You know, I was just-

Lewis Howes 1:46:29 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 1:46:30 ... like, just-

Lewis Howes 1:46:30 I can relate to that

Matthew Hussey 1:46:31 ... not, you know, like if people really knew who I was-

Lewis Howes 1:46:36 Mm-hmm

Matthew Hussey 1:46:36 ... I, they would think I was disgusting and-

Lewis Howes 1:46:40 Wow

Matthew Hussey 1:46:40 ... pathetic, and weak, and unlovable. And, um, and I'm not saying all of this is al- was always conscious, but it was im- on some level this must have been how I was feeling because I was really deeply afraid to be seen.

Lewis Howes 1:46:59 Yes.

Matthew Hussey 1:47:01 And so I would've s- I would've said, "It's okay

Matthew Hussey 1:47:04 that you're, like, you're, you're okay. You're, like, the way you are, you didn't, it's not because you're broken or that you made choices to be th- it's that you're responding to something."

Lewis Howes 1:47:15 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:47:16 And that would br- that would give me self-compassion.

Lewis Howes 1:47:19 Wow.

Matthew Hussey 1:47:20 And the second thing I would say to myself is, is share those things. Now, I don't know how well it would've gone for me at 18 to share those things-

Lewis Howes 1:47:30 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 1:47:30 ... with, with girls my age.

Lewis Howes 1:47:32 Yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:47:33 But in general, I would've said as a lesson for life, share those things. Because that, everyone else is also, in all the ways you fear you're broken, everyone else is, too. And if you can share that with other people, you, that is gonna be your ultimate power. I spent my 20s, Lewis, you know, I was coaching people, and I was lucky enough, like you, to be quite known.

Lewis Howes 1:48:01 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:48:02 Relatively speaking, you know? I, f- as a 25-year-old, I, you know, made a bit of a name for myself, and a lot of people knew who I was. And, and I, and I never really allowed myself to truly just be myself, 'cause I was trying to be something else. I was trying to, like, be impressive.

Lewis Howes 1:48:21 Mm-hmm.

Matthew Hussey 1:48:22 And these days I'm much more focused on connecting-

Lewis Howes 1:48:25 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 1:48:25 ... with people.

Lewis Howes 1:48:26 Right.

Matthew Hussey 1:48:26 It's like you and I would never have had this interview 10 years ago.

Lewis Howes 1:48:28 No.

Matthew Hussey 1:48:29 The first ever-

Lewis Howes 1:48:29 You would've been trying to impress too much, or, yeah.

Matthew Hussey 1:48:31 Yeah. The first, I'm sure the first interview we did together was, was strong, because it's fun sometimes when someone is being impressive, right? We get to watch someone, you know, do their thing. But this, this now-

Lewis Howes 1:48:44 Mm

Matthew Hussey 1:48:44 ... w- this wouldn't have happened 10 years ago.

Lewis Howes 1:48:46 Right, right.

Matthew Hussey 1:48:46 Because I, I wasn't sharing myself in that way.

Lewis Howes 1:48:49 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:48:50 So I would say share yourself because that's the route to real connection, real friendships, real love. And, uh-

Lewis Howes 1:48:57 Mm

Matthew Hussey 1:48:58 ... and then I, the third thing I would say to myself is have compassion for these flaws in other people.

Lewis Howes 1:49:10 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:49:11 Because, you know, I s- I spent way too much of my life writing people off or judging people for things that they were struggling with, you know? And things that I didn't like about the way they did this or that, or the, or the way that insecurity showed up, or the way ... And, and, oh, like honestly, man, I, I, I look back on it now and I'm like, "They were me."

Lewis Howes 1:49:38 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:49:38 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:49:39 Sure.

Matthew Hussey 1:49:40 They were me. Like, I, I, they only didn't know- That that was me because I wasn't being vulnerable with them for, you know, I didn't even offer them the ability to have compassion with my deeper flaws or my insecurities or my vulnerabilities because I never shared them

Lewis Howes 1:49:58 You didn't reveal them. Yeah

Matthew Hussey 1:49:59 No, because I, I didn't, I judged those things in myself, and when you judge them in yourself, you judge them in other people

Lewis Howes 1:50:03 Mm

Matthew Hussey 1:50:04 And the, the more in my life I've developed space for myself and who I am, uh, the more compassionate I've become with myself, the more compassionate I've become with other people, the greater my capacity to love other people for who they really are is. And I, I, I think that's such a, that's such a big point to me. You know, in ... I, one of the comments that I read a lot in self-development circles is like, "It's really hard to meet someone when you've upped your game in life and you now are someone who, you know, is growth oriented and you're doing this and you're doing that and whatever." And it's like your pool shrinks because you're just so awesome and everyone else sucks [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:50:49 You're so conscious and everyone else is unconscious

Matthew Hussey 1:50:50 That's, that's, yeah. That's basically like sort of the subtext is that why is it so hard now that everyone sucks and I'm great? And I, I have to say, I have found a slightly different experience to be true

Lewis Howes 1:51:04 Mm.

Matthew Hussey 1:51:04 I, I have found it easier to love other people-

Lewis Howes 1:51:07 Mm

Matthew Hussey 1:51:07 ... the more that I have learned to love myself-

Lewis Howes 1:51:09 Interesting

Matthew Hussey 1:51:09 ... and the more compassion I've developed for my own complexities and the things that make me, uh, difficult and complicated and somewhat damaged and-

Lewis Howes 1:51:21 [laughs]

Matthew Hussey 1:51:21 ... whatever person.

Lewis Howes 1:51:22 Yeah

Matthew Hussey 1:51:23 I, it's made me able to love other people more because now that I'm making more space for myself, I also make space for, for the way that other people are and the things that, that, those things on the surface that are easy to judge, the, the things that, the, the deeper wounds that those things represent that they're struggling with. It makes me emotional as I say it because I think that that's ... I, I have found it easier to love, and I think that-

Lewis Howes 1:51:48 Wow

Matthew Hussey 1:51:49 ... um, having, having that compassion for yourself breeds compassion for other people. Um, so I would say have-

Lewis Howes 1:51:56 Mm

Matthew Hussey 1:51:56 ... have, stop judging other people so much-

Lewis Howes 1:51:59 [laughs] Right

Matthew Hussey 1:51:59 ... and have compassion for, for who they are 'cause they're you

Lewis Howes 1:52:03 Mm. Mm. This is beautiful, man.

Lewis Howes 1:52:05 Make sure you guys get a copy of the book, lovelifebook.com. Check it out. Matthew Hussey. Thanks, brother. Appreciate you, man.

Matthew Hussey 1:52:12 Thanks.

1:52:13 Now, when you go in wounded and expect the person to provide you medication, but you don't even tell them what disease you have, we are then going to punish them for everything they do.

Lewis Howes 1:52:21 Oh my gosh.

Matthew Hussey 1:52:22 So-

Lewis Howes 1:52:22 That's the worst feeling

Matthew Hussey 1:52:23 I honestly... And I've done it many times. Yeah. I mean-

Lewis Howes 1:52:24 You've done it in relationships

Matthew Hussey 1:52:26 I, of course. And, and we have [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:52:26 I've had that experience myself in relationships. It's not fun

Matthew Hussey 1:52:29 So unfortunately, you go in expecting them to be the healer