Matthew McConaughey - THIS IS Why You're NOT HAPPY In Life (Change Your Future Today)| Lewis Howes

Matthew McConaughey 0:00 I've done my best work when we wrap and I'm like, "Okay, see y'all tomorrow morning." And they're like, "No, that's it. We wrapped. The show is over." And you're like, "Oh, really? Oh, wow." Stay in the zone, in the process, and I've found that more results will come your way.

Lewis Howes 0:16 I think you gotta have a dream. The School of Greatness. Really? [laughs] Yeah. Please welcome Lewis Howes. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. I'm so excited we have the iconic Matthew McConaughey in the house. My man, thank you so much for being here.

Matthew McConaughey 0:30 How we doing, Lewis? Good to be here, bud.

Lewis Howes 0:32 Uh, man, I've read your book, man, and, uh, it was hard... I'll tell you what, I'm dyslexic, so it's hard for me to get into a book and finish a book, but the way you tell stories is truly captivating, so, uh, congrats on this book. So inspiring.

Matthew McConaughey 0:46 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 0:46 There was a point in the book where you said that your first exchange student family, um, asked you to call them Mom and Pop, I think it was.

Matthew McConaughey 0:53 Yes.

Lewis Howes 0:54 Mom and Dad. And you said no, which was a, I guess, challenging moment where you had to kinda stand up for what you wanted, but why do you feel like values are so important for you, and what did that lesson and that moment kinda standing up for your values-

Matthew McConaughey 1:10 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:10 ... against authority of a place that had you, welcomed in, feeding you, ho-

Matthew McConaughey 1:14 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:14 ... housing you.

Matthew McConaughey 1:15 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:15 How did you, how did you learn all that?

Matthew McConaughey 1:17 Well, let me answer the, the, the... I'll come back to what the, what I think values overall mean and how they've helped me to get to where I am and go where I think we all hopefully need to go. But that story was, I was, I was in Australia for a year. Uh, two weeks out of high school I went over there, and for the first time I was all alone, I was in a foreign place. Uh, I was, uh, uh, forced into a great introspection, uh, existential questions of, you know, who, what, where, when, and why, and how. I didn't have a crutch, I didn't have my car, I didn't have a girlfriend, I didn't have a job, I didn't have money, I didn't have my parents, I didn't have friends, and I was lost and trying to, trying to find a bit of a compass and an anchor. And some odd things were going on for me, um, in, in my relationships with some people there, um, where I was questioning my own sanity. Um, and I was kinda going along with everything, and that moment where I was asked to call someone Mom and Pop was a seminal moment because in my chaod- chaotic life, [laughs] in my anarchic brain that I was living in at the time, that was the first bit of real clarity that I was like, "No."

Lewis Howes 2:27 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 2:27 "That is not open for discussion." All these other odd things that have been happening to me I've been tallying up to, oh, it must be a cultural difference. It must be a cultural difference. This was something that I went, culture my backside, man. I don't care place, time, whatever, that's not negotiable for me. So I said no. Um, and it was very clear, and it gave me clarity. It gave me some identity, and it was just an obvious, uh, uh, uh, uh, thing to deny, or that I c- could never call someone.

Lewis Howes 2:59 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 2:59 Um, so I mean, look, the, the values are inherent in that, but that, that helped me... That really helped with my sanity to have that sort of-

Lewis Howes 3:07 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 3:07 ... that sort of something that was so clear to me that was black and white. I needed that at that time in my life. It's hard to find those things in life in general. You know? And how many times do we call, you know, the compromise a shade of gray when actually the right kind of compromise is the, the eye of great light and truth.

Lewis Howes 3:27 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 3:27 Um, at the same time, we need, uh, we feel like we need as humans th- something to grab a hold of, something to grasp a hold of. It can be very good for us, it can also be very dangerous for us. Look at what's happening now in our nation.

Lewis Howes 3:38 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 3:39 The divide is people running to the extremes because they need something to hold onto to have an identity, to feel like they have a purpose, to have a foot on the ground in these chaotic times we're in. Um, but the values of family, what that means, the values of, uh, of, of loyalty, the values of accountability, responsibility, the responsibility of freedom, the freedom of responsibility, um, fairness, those are things that I was raised on that I've found that n- are never gonna go out of style, and I actually think we could all double down on them personally and as a society now.

Lewis Howes 4:10 For sure. You talked about identity. Is there ever a moment in your, your, your life after that moment where you lost your identity, where you felt like I'm losing the grasp of who I am? I know you talk about in the book of, like, looking yourself in the mirror a lot and asking that question-

Matthew McConaughey 4:25 Yeah

Lewis Howes 4:25 ... of are you happy with what you see in the mirror when you look in your eyes.

Matthew McConaughey 4:29 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 4:29 Was there ever points where you lost it fully and you had to kind of re-

Matthew McConaughey 4:32 I've never lost it fully. I've never lost it fully. I have a pretty good threshold and a pretty good quick trigger for if I'm not feeling fully myself I need to go remedy it, which may be taking a walkabout myself-

Lewis Howes 4:46 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 4:46 ... with a backpack for 22 days to Peru or Africa or, or meditating or praying or going and sitting still for a while, or going back to what I know I can rely on, family, and sitting there and clearing my head about all this other ambitions and, that I may have in my head. I've never lost it fully, and if anything I've been... It's been a nice, I would say, a good trait of mine, that my trigger is very quick for if I'm starting to feel imbalanced or lack of identity, not understanding exactly who I am. My feet are maybe not on the ground. Maybe my head and my heart and my spirit and my loins are not aligned. You know, I always like to say-

Lewis Howes 5:21 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 5:21 ... let's have an autobahn. When we're, when we're really, when we're really rocking, uh, we have an autobahn between our, our head and our heart and our spirit.

Lewis Howes 5:29 Just boom.

Matthew McConaughey 5:30 You know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 5:30 Just gone, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 5:31 Just times that gets blocked and you start going, "Wait, it feels like, feels like a two-lane highway," or may- ... "Now it's down to a one-lane blacktop. I n- I need to take a minute." [laughs] I gotta, I gotta, I gotta step back and clean, clean, clean it out and widen up the lanes here, um, and get aligned again. Um, so thankfully I've, I've had a pretty good short trigger and, uh, threshold for realizing when I'm feeling like, oh, I'm headed that way and I need to do something about it. Um, so never fully lost my identity, but have calibrated and had to recalibrate and had many-

Lewis Howes 5:58 Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 5:58 ... many walkabouts to go check back in with myself, c- let memory catch up and have a Socratic dialogue with, uh, McConaughey and, and end up forgiving stuff and then saying, "Enough's enough with this other stuff."

Lewis Howes 6:12 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 6:12 "And you're the only person..." That I'm stuck with McConaughey so we better [laughs] figure out how to get along.

Lewis Howes 6:18 You gotta have good company with yourself. What's the thing that's been the hardest for you to forgive?

Matthew McConaughey 6:24 Ooh, that's a good one. I'm, I can e- I can forgive others much easier than I forgive myself.

Lewis Howes 6:32 Ooh.

Matthew McConaughey 6:33 And I don't know if that's just-

Lewis Howes 6:33 So, so the thing with you that's been the hardest to, to let go of?

Matthew McConaughey 6:37 The thing for me, um... You know, I, I... There's no deep dark crimes in my closet. There's no, uh, uh, real violence or where I've really hurt someone. I've been, I've been... I've got times where I've been ugly.

Lewis Howes 6:59 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 6:59 And I did not know or realize at the time, especially the life that I live now in the last 25 years, that my words coming from me with my platform and someone's perception of me can come at you in bold print and from a large megaphone, and can mean more. Things that I'll... things that may tickle me I've noticed can bruise others.

Lewis Howes 7:25 Hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 7:26 And I bruised some people along the way, and didn't notice it until after, and didn't notice the impact it had on them. I'm like, "What? Really? Oh, I thought that was... Oh." So I've had, I've, I've done that and, uh, um, I've tried to... I, I haven't swept everything up and made full amends yet. And I'm happy to say I think it's a pretty short list. It's not a long list, but I, but I've done that. And, and I, and I have some guilt over that and I still have some amends to make with that.

Lewis Howes 7:53 Really? So you feel like you haven't fully forgive- uh, let go or, or

Matthew McConaughey 7:58 I need-

Lewis Howes 7:58 forgiven anyone?

Matthew McConaughey 7:58 I need to make amends... I've, I've, I think I've let go, but I need, I don't think I can fully let go until I make amends with them.

Lewis Howes 8:04 Ah. You've forgiven yourself for what you did or how you communicated, but you haven't-

Matthew McConaughey 8:09 Yeah, but-

Lewis Howes 8:09 ... said, "Hey, that wasn't cool," or...

Matthew McConaughey 8:10 But my intent, you know, and we have to watch this I think a lot in life, i- is, is what we mean to say and what's actually being received can be, there can be a gap between that.

Lewis Howes 8:18 Absolutely.

Matthew McConaughey 8:19 I mean, I'm all for intent. I'm, I think I write about this in the book.

Lewis Howes 8:21 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 8:22 The words are momentary, the intent is what's momentous. And, and I think we could have some more amnesty and forgiveness on this use, on this where, the way we're attacking words and the value we're giving words these days.

Lewis Howes 8:32 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 8:33 Um, and but there's times that my intent's been misconstrued. There's times it's... Look at it, it happens all the time in a doggone email. If someone puts an exclamation mark, if, if you're having a restful morning you think they're yelling at you.

Lewis Howes 8:44 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 8:44 But if you're not having a restful morning you think that, "Oh yeah, they're really happy" [laughs] .

Lewis Howes 8:48 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 8:48 So you don't get the, do you need the emoji, you know-

Lewis Howes 8:51 Right. [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 8:51 ... to let you know how I'm feeling or what I really mean by it? And that gets, it gets, uh, it can, some of it can, you, you can, you can miss the intent or-

Lewis Howes 8:59 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 8:59 ... or catch someone at a bad time and they don't receive it how you meant to. And so I've got some amends to make with some people-

Lewis Howes 9:04 Hmm

Matthew McConaughey 9:05 ... uh, in my past. And I, you know, I procrastinate some of that because I know they're gonna be, I feel they're going to be long, long drawn out conversations. I may be wrong. They may be like three minutes. The person may go, "Oh dude, I forgave you that a long time ago. I forgave you that. We're good."

Lewis Howes 9:18 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 9:18 Isn't there a chapter in your book about taking hills?

Matthew McConaughey 9:22 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 9:23 Climbing hills?

Matthew McConaughey 9:24 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 9:25 Would that be a hill for you to climb, which is like doing the hard thing and, and-

Matthew McConaughey 9:29 Yeah

Lewis Howes 9:29 ... addressing the thing that's gonna take a long time or it's not gonna be uncomfortable?

Matthew McConaughey 9:33 Well, there's climbing hills i- and there's also it's about the n- handling the noes or the crisises in life. If we handle the noes, uh, they're, they're actually more important than even handling the yeses sometimes. Meaning I've always tried to practice if I get offered, um, a script, say, uh, for a movie, and I form a relationship with so said director or producer, and then there comes a time, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm got five scripts maybe I'm, I'm working on. I've formed a relationship walking down the line forward with, say, three, four, five different directors, and gotten to know them, had a drink with them, had a meal with them, talked to them on the phone, know about their family, and there comes a time where I'm gonna have to say no to two out of those three or four out of those five.

Lewis Howes 10:18 Wow.

Matthew McConaughey 10:20 Well, it's very easy to tell my agent to go, "Just let them know." But I've tried to practice I'll let them know, either in person or by a phone call. And those calls are hard because each one of those directors thought I was gonna be a yes, right? And so while those calls were hard, when I hung up the phone with them I gained more respect. They respected me more for making the hard no call. And I noticed that more and more we realize that in life that people are big boys and girls. They under- they kinda understand when you're, when they're told no or when, when, when someone's turned down. It's part of it.

Lewis Howes 11:00 Hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 11:01 And if we realize that even if we ask the question, 50% of the answer could be a no, [laughs] no matter how well this is going. Or, and that comes and that's inherent in, in, in, in the request. The answer could be yes or no. And, um, when we, when we handle our noes personally by making that personal call or doing it in person, I've found that to, that, that, that's been an additive, uh-

Lewis Howes 11:20 Hmm

Matthew McConaughey 11:20 ... in, in compounding assets i- in, in my future.

Lewis Howes 11:23 Yeah, I think we also gain confidence and belief in ourself that we can take on challenging things in the future, and we have more pride in like, "Hey, I did the hard thing." You know?

Matthew McConaughey 11:32 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 11:32 It's kinda like this self-reward of like, "Wow, okay, I, I believe in myself. I can do this. I don't need to always pass everything off to someone else."

Matthew McConaughey 11:39 No, no. I mean, you know, that, that, that chapter about taking the hill or, you know, it's also about not creating false drama when it's not needed.

Lewis Howes 11:49 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 11:49 And I see a lot of people do that, and I've fallen, been susceptible to it as well. The drama's gonna come.

Lewis Howes 11:55 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 11:55 Real drama's gonna come. Someone's gonna get sick, all right?

Lewis Howes 11:58 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 11:59 Someone's gonna get hurt. We're gonna really screw up and then have to handle it. Something's gonna ha- or the world's... COVID's gonna come. Something's gonna come that's real, and so don't look for the false drama, um, when it's not there. And people have a habit of it. I've done it before myself, and that's sort of- The inverse of take the hill and climb the hill is there's an art to running downhill, which I write about in the book.

Lewis Howes 12:24 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 12:24 When things are going well, don't trip yourself and face plant because, because it's going too good. [laughs] Don't get nervous. "Oh, my God, this is going so good." No, embrace it and stay in stride, because the uphill will be there in a minute, [laughs] and you'll have to break a sweat and it'll be hard again.

Lewis Howes 12:40 Yeah. How do you... How did you not self-sabotage when you were just getting hit after hit and opportunity after opportunity, and you were going downhill? Um, how did, how do you not do that? Were you self-sabotage? And what do you recommend for other people so they don't do it when the opportunities are, are coming?

Matthew McConaughey 12:56 Great, great. Great, great topic because I have tripped myself running downhill before. I have face-planted, you know, broke my nose and to, to, to proverbially make sure I was felt. It's like you don't need to-

Lewis Howes 13:10 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 13:10 ... [laughs] you don't need to feel that hard. You know what I mean? We don't need to draw blood, McConaughey, just to make sure we can feel. Um, so there's been times I have not been graceful when I was running downhill. Um, but I shook hands with the fact that, okay, obviously it means you give a damn-

Lewis Howes 13:26 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 13:26 ... McConaughey. Obviously, it means y- y- y- you're trying to read through the mendacities of life. You're trying to get down to the common denominator about what really matters to you. You're trying to, uh, uh, um, uh, understand all this affluence and things coming to you that you ne- never had yesterday that now you have, and you want 80 hours in a day but they're still only giving 24. Um, I gotta get some discernment in here. And for me, I've had to... I've been... had the ability and I have taken what I call fuga mundi, a walkabout. I have taken those solo trips with myself. I've... What we talked about earlier in the conversation. Gone to a place where I could hear myself think, where I could get my head and my heart aligned. In those times of great affluence, sometimes it's all heady.

Lewis Howes 14:14 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 14:15 And I have a, a, a, a piece in the book about when you can, ask yourself if you want to before you do. Well, in times of great influence, we have a lot of I can in front of us.

Lewis Howes 14:28 Lots of opportunity.

Matthew McConaughey 14:29 And too many options can make a tyrant-

Lewis Howes 14:31 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 14:31 ... out of anybody.

Lewis Howes 14:32 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 14:33 Um, so it's a very heady thing, and sometimes that, that... That's times when it's like, "Okay, this all makes sense in my head, but I don't really feel it inside my spirit. I don't know if it's really me, if it's really good for me, if this is gonna turn me on and help me be and feed me. But jeez, I mean, I've never had the option before. It sounds awesome. I mean, yes." Well, that's not a bad thing to do, but we gotta check in on that because you can look up and the tank can be on, on, on, on, on reserve-

Lewis Howes 15:00 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 15:00 ... um, when you look in the rear view mirror and go, "Whoa, I over-leveraged myself with things that did not feed me and pay me back." And so how do we... We need to take that time to go check in, and it can be a hairy, hairy time, man, because the answers don't come quickly sometimes.

Lewis Howes 15:16 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 15:17 And when they don't come and you're shaking monkeys off your back, and you're not enjoying your own company, and none of it makes sense, and it's all confusing, and you're looking over there and you wanna go... well, you wanna go to entertainment or communication, or you wanna pick up the phone, or you wanna drink earlier, or those things that come up to, to, to mask that, you gotta hold, try to hold back and say, "No, I'm gonna sit in this discomfort. This is a prudent, a penance I am taking to get to know myself and listen to myself."

Lewis Howes 15:42 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 15:42 And there's prudence in it.

Lewis Howes 15:43 Why do you think so many people try to resist discomfort when so many great things come-

Matthew McConaughey 15:48 Yeah

Lewis Howes 15:48 ... from being in discomfort? Why do we resist it?

Matthew McConaughey 15:51 I mean, look, we all like pleasure over pain.

Lewis Howes 15:56 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 15:57 But I think what we forget sometimes is that there's a greater pleasure that can come with going through a pain.

Lewis Howes 16:05 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 16:06 I mean, you can have little pleasures. If you don't... I mean, I, it's... I see some people that are like just glide through life forever, woo-hoo. Those people are not really ambitious, though, I find. They don't really... They're not really on the chasing down a, a better self, or chasing down a higher existence, or chasing down a high... a, a different truth. And I... It's admirable. It's fi- it's fine. If you can be the kingdom of your own castle, and that's the world you live in, and that's just how you walk and go, bravo. As long as you're not harming other people. But if you go through resistance and you choose resistance at the right times, um, and you go through it, you have greater, more evolved-

Lewis Howes 16:49 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 16:49 ... pleasure on the other side of it.

Lewis Howes 16:51 So true.

Matthew McConaughey 16:52 Um, again, responsibility and freedom, that relationship is really at the core of a lot of this.

Lewis Howes 16:58 That's true.

Matthew McConaughey 16:59 There's a responsibility to freedom and freedom in the responsibility, and the responsibility is the hard work. You know? The freedom's the Saturday. The freedom's what we want. The responsibility is what we need. When you go through what you need, when, when, when what we want actually is what we need and what we need is actually what we want, that's the honey hole where, hey-

Lewis Howes 17:19 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 17:20 ... I look as, I look as good as I feel, and I feel as good as I look.

Lewis Howes 17:23 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 17:23 Ta-da. [laughs] You know, where the, where, where, where we're selfish and selfless at the same time.

Lewis Howes 17:30 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 17:30 That's, I know what I, what I'm chasing.

Lewis Howes 17:34 When we take responsibility and we have structure, which you've talked about also, uh, and, and kind of have those, not limits, but you have some structure and some boundaries, you can really be flexible and free within those boundaries-

Matthew McConaughey 17:46 Right

Lewis Howes 17:46 ... um, which I think is powerful. But if we have no responsibility and no boundaries, it's hard to really create that freedom.

Matthew McConaughey 17:52 There's no form.

Lewis Howes 17:53 No.

Matthew McConaughey 17:54 It's anarchy. I mean, with, y- let's go, let's go all the way down to the basics. Gravity.

Lewis Howes 18:00 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 18:00 Without gravity, there's no form. You know? And, and without, without gravity, there'd just be chaos and anarchy. Um, some people do it the other way. I call this version, what you were talking about, conservative or liberal lake, meaning what are the rules of the situation? Let me get my structure. Let me check my sandbox and make sure there's no glass and sharp objects in it so I can... Once I've checked all that, now I can blow in the wind and do back flips naked in the sand-

Lewis Howes 18:24 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 18:24 ... in the sand, my sandbox. Or now I can get on my 16-lane highway that I've checked out, I've s- seen it's clean, and I can swerve all through those lanes. Some people go the other way. They jump off the cliff and say, "I'll figure it out on the way down."

Lewis Howes 18:37 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 18:37 That's also u- useful. It's not how I choose, how I've found it works for me, but-

Lewis Howes 18:43 It, it sounds like, uh, values are really important to you, identity and responsibility are important to you.

Matthew McConaughey 18:50 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 18:50 Why do you think, why do you think it's so hard for the younger generation, the millennials, why is it so hard for them to find their identity, take responsibility, and develop values? And what advice would you have for the youth on how to find all three?

Matthew McConaughey 19:05 Yeah. Look, I'm gonna go back to a version of saying too many options can make a tyrant of any of us. This... Look at the world that a, a, a lot of our young people are living in. We're all connected, but nobody's with each other.

Lewis Howes 19:23 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 19:25 Their world is massive. They have more outreach than any of us ever have, but they're more isolated than ever before. So it's inevitable, human nature. Me, I'm betting you, I've got... I, I, I, I, I feel sound with myself. My spirit feels good. I've got three children and a, and, and a wife, but even I'll have a different ner- reaction if you give me a thumbs up on my comment or a thumbs down.

Lewis Howes 20:03 Even you, the great Matthew McConaughey.

Matthew McConaughey 20:04 Even if it's just a... Even if it's just, "Well, wait, what was that about?" Is that, you know, uh... Is that, was that a constructive criticism, or do you just not like me? I, do you just, were you gonna put a thumbs down anyway, or what was the thumbs up about? It, it, it can affect you. And so a lot of our youth is living in that world where their emotional feelings about themselves and their own identity is based off your reaction, strangers' reactions, some of them which may not have even read or cared about what you were actually putting out and didn't care about the intent. And that can affect you.

Lewis Howes 20:36 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 20:36 I'm not s- and, and so I think we gotta... There's a responsibility to that world that we, to whatever extent the millennials live in it, there needs to be, uh, they need to edit and govern back themselves with what they allow themselves to, to, to, to, to, to be out there, how, how, how proverbial naked they are to like I'm sh- I'm sharing it all with the world. I'm sending it out to a bunch of strangers, and they're gonna come back to me and let me know-

Lewis Howes 21:06 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 21:06 ... who I am.

Lewis Howes 21:07 Wow.

Matthew McConaughey 21:08 Uh-uh. No.

Lewis Howes 21:10 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 21:10 Check in. And remember this, you millennials, that like, dislike comment that you put today, that's gonna outlive you. It's immortal. It's permanent. You and I are not permanent.

Lewis Howes 21:25 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 21:25 That comment is. Think about before you click and what you put out, are you putting out something today that you're gonna look forward to looking back at? Are you putting out something today in your resume of life that is going to write your eulogy after you're gone, which is gonna introduce you forever-

Lewis Howes 21:46 Wow

Matthew McConaughey 21:47 ... when you're gone? Think about it.

Lewis Howes 21:51 How did you... I mean, you've done it seems like a million movies, so many big hits, but there are some that got some controversial feedback or bad reviews, right? There was different stages-

Matthew McConaughey 22:02 Sure

Lewis Howes 22:02 ... that you had. How did you handle it as a, a creator, as an artist, as an actor, um, when you got negative reviews or when it didn't hit the expectation-

Matthew McConaughey 22:11 Sure

Lewis Howes 22:12 ... of the box office or whatever you guys had? How did you deal with that to say-

Matthew McConaughey 22:15 Yeah

Lewis Howes 22:15 ... "You know what? I'm not gonna let the opinions of others bring me down"?

Matthew McConaughey 22:19 Well, oof, they did bring me down sometimes, I have to admit.

Lewis Howes 22:24 Really?

Matthew McConaughey 22:25 Uh, look, my favorite word in the, my favorite word in the world is unanimous. I know I'm never gonna get it. There's no such thing [laughs] , but that's still what I'll ch- I'm chasing, and I know I'm never gonna get it, so I'll be underwhelmed for the rest of life, and that'll be fine if I keep enjoying the chase, right? I, I did this exercise one time. I sat down, and I had my publicist gather every bad review of over 20 years of work.

Lewis Howes 22:48 [laughs] Oh, man.

Matthew McConaughey 22:49 Not the good, the bad reviews. And it was a thick [laughs] it was a-

Lewis Howes 22:53 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 22:53 ... it was a thick folder.

Lewis Howes 22:54 It was a big book.

Matthew McConaughey 22:56 Um, in ways it was more constructive than reading the good reviews. There were some people I could read that, oh, they already didn't like me. This review was written poorly before they even saw the movie. I could just tell. You could hear the snark in the opening comment. There were other ones that had constructive things to say. "Now, McConaughey, this is what I love about you that you do that is quintessentially you, and you, y- y- y- you didn't... y- I don't know who you were or who you were trying to be in this. You were you... What... Y- you, you, you missed the mark."

Lewis Howes 23:28 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 23:28 "You, you, you didn't give that heart that you give," or something that you can say, I could say is essential that I can give to every role no matter what I'm playing. So some of it was very constructive, and I went, "Mm, you're right. Mm, you're right," and had to go back, look in my diaries during those movies. What was I doing? What was I eating? Who was I hanging out with? Where was my n- where was my mind? How was I feeling about this? Was I working hard enough? Did I prepare enough? Did I, did, did I get complacent? Oh, yeah, you did. You got complacent there. You thought you had it going. And that's kind of this, that's actually the scene that this critic's pulling out saying-

Lewis Howes 23:58 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 23:58 ... "You know, you lost me right there, McConaughey." And I'm like, "Yeah, I was lazy in that scene."

Lewis Howes 24:03 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 24:03 So I... Look, other times there was a, there was a, a real pivotal time in my life when I'd been... I was on a roll with the romantic comedies.

Lewis Howes 24:11 Crushing.

Matthew McConaughey 24:12 Loved doing those.

Lewis Howes 24:13 Crushing the rom coms.

Matthew McConaughey 24:14 You're like that 10-year-old just like boom, boom, boom. [laughs] Took the baton from Hugh Grant and turned up the speed.

Lewis Howes 24:21 Let's go, baby. [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 24:23 It was great, man. They're fun. I was getting paid handsomely. They were making a lot of money. The, what the challenge became, though, that was only thing I was getting offered.

Lewis Howes 24:33 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 24:33 Like with the success of those, any dramas I wanted to do, the opportunity to do those became less and less and less and less until it was like, no, McConaughey is the shirtless on the beach rom com guy. And I remember looking in the mirror going, "Okay, and yes I'm shirtless on the beach because those rom coms are paying the rent for the house I've got on the beach that I'm running shirtless on. [laughs] Yes, I worked to get that." [laughs]

Lewis Howes 25:00 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 25:00 I- I looked that in the eye. Fact. That is me. Now, that also... that does not, uh, that does... that does not mean that it didn't become a thing that became like a p- a pigeonhole. "Oh, that's all McConaughey is and does." And it was a time in my life where, uh, Camila and I had just had our first child. So, do you have children?

Lewis Howes 25:20 No kids, not yet but-

Matthew McConaughey 25:21 You'll s- you, you'll see when and if you do.

Lewis Howes 25:24 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 25:25 A man is never more masculine than right after the birth of his first child.

Lewis Howes 25:29 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 25:29 And I don't mean macho. I mean the clarity. That autobahn we're talking about, about mind, heart, spirit, and loins, it is so clear. The first six months after your newborn, don't double down, triple down on any instinct you have career-wise, relationship-wise, anything. Stock market, just triple down on them. You'll be right. It's a, it's, it's, it's an incredible time. Anyway, I had just had a newborn. Camila had had the newborn, so my life was so vital, man. I mean, I was loving harder. I was... had more, more rage in the right places. I, I would get sad more. I, my emotions, the ceilings and the basements were, were, were really incredibly vital. And the rom coms have a much thinner bandwidth for those, for those of how you can feel about something. The, the ceiling and the basement are, are, are, are compressed quite a bit, and that's how they're built.

Lewis Howes 26:22 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 26:22 They're built... you're supposed to bounce along the clouds. They're built to be buoyant. And I was like, "Ah, I wish I could find some work that would challenge the vitality and drama, great drama I have in my own life." Those things weren't coming to me. So since those things weren't coming to me, I decided to stop doing what I was doing, which was the rom coms. Now, I'm figuring this is gonna be a bit of a dry spell in my career, but I don't know for how long. Um, I shed many a tear on the shoulder of my wife talking about, "You know what? I, I, I want to make a change. I need... I, I, I want my career, some work to challenge the man I am, to challenge the life that I'm living. But I mean, that means I'm not gonna go with work for a while." Call my money man. He says, "You can take off. You've handled your money well." Call my agent. He goes, [claps hands] "Do it. I work for you. We got... Go ahead." And then I stopped. I said, I moved down to Texas. You didn't see me on the beach. You didn't see me in the rom com. You didn't see me in the tabloids. You didn't see me anywhere. Rom coms kept coming in as offers. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. And then one comes in, an $8 million offer. Let me have a read of this one.

Lewis Howes 27:31 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 27:32 I read it. Pretty good. No, thank you.

Lewis Howes 27:35 [laughs] Pass.

Matthew McConaughey 27:37 They come back with a $10 million offer. No, thank you. They come back with a $12.5 million offer. Uh, dot, dot, dot. Mm, no, thanks. They come back with a $15 million offer. I say, "Let me read that again." [laughs]

Lewis Howes 27:56 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 27:57 I read it again. Same script word for word as the original $8 million offer. But at $15 million, ooh, it was written so much better.

Lewis Howes 28:08 It looks good, doesn't it?

Matthew McConaughey 28:09 It was shinier. It was more dramatic. I got angles on this. I can make this work. Oh, yeah. [laughs] I ended up saying no.

Lewis Howes 28:18 Oh.

Matthew McConaughey 28:18 And that really got the message across to the industry. "Okay, McConaughey's serious. He's not doing any rom coms." Then nothing came in for about 10 months. Nothing. Dry as a bone. And after 20 months of a desert and nothing coming in and saying no, first saying no to what I was doing and then nothing coming in at all, all of a sudden, I became a new good idea. McConaughey for Killer Joe, uh, Magic Mike, Mud, True Detective, The Dallas Buyers. All of a sudden, that was a new novel. Good idea. Why? Because I'd unbranded. I had stepped away and I was gone. They didn't know where I was. Couldn't find me on the beach without my shirt. You couldn't find me in a rom com, and I became a new good idea. So that's kind of a, the most dramatic sort of hinge point in my career that deals with how I dealt with, um, uh, you know, how I was perceived or how, what I was doing in my career.

Lewis Howes 29:15 This is a, a very important question. If it was 25 million, would you have done it?

Matthew McConaughey 29:20 No. The, I, I wouldn't have done it for 100 million.

Lewis Howes 29:23 Why?

Matthew McConaughey 29:24 I'd already m- my, I'd already... No, I'd already made the, the, the, the Socratic oath with my soul.

Lewis Howes 29:28 You were committed.

Matthew McConaughey 29:29 It was... I was in. I was in. If it w- I would've got more excited. The, the more... The fact that the money went up, it, it was kind of, it was such a buzz to even have the courage to say no to it. And, and-

Lewis Howes 29:39 Wow

Matthew McConaughey 29:40 ... and it ga- it empowered me to go mm-mm. Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

Lewis Howes 29:43 That's cool, 'cause you, you go back to your values and your identity of like, "No, that's not who I wanna be anymore. Uh, this is who I wanna be. I wanna..." You call it, uh-

Matthew McConaughey 29:50 Just-

Lewis Howes 29:50 You call it unbranding? Is that what you said?

Matthew McConaughey 29:52 Unbrand, yeah.

Lewis Howes 29:53 Unbrand.

Matthew McConaughey 29:54 Unbranded to then rebrand.

Lewis Howes 29:55 Yeah, I think that's powerful. It's like we should always be in a state of reinvention. You know, you reinvented yourself as a father. You reinvented yourself as an actor. Uh, and I think that's, that's really powerful. Good for you, man.

Matthew McConaughey 30:07 Yeah, it-

Lewis Howes 30:07 It's hard to turn away those checks

Matthew McConaughey 30:08 ... I mean, you could stay on. Yeah. Well, you know, I'd saved my money well. I'd, you know, I, I, I was appreciating the basics, had a roof over my head.

Lewis Howes 30:18 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 30:18 I would have found... I honestly, in that two years, I considered other vocations. I considered other careers-

Lewis Howes 30:25 Like what?

Matthew McConaughey 30:25 ... during that time. Uh, c- coach a high school football team, a teacher, fourth grade teacher, orchestral conducting, wildlife guide, write. I did a lot of writing at the time. Didn't have a book to put out at that time. I did a lot of writing at the time. Just I didn't, I didn't have the confidence, I think, to where I, the writing was worth publishing, but I was still doing a lot of writing at the time.

Lewis Howes 30:48 So if you would've not gotten the dramatic roles that you were looking for- Uh, after two, three, four, five years, you would've-

Matthew McConaughey 30:57 Yeah

Lewis Howes 30:57 ... gone and been a, a high school football coach or a writer or a wildlife guide for 60 to 80 grand a year and, and been just as happy?

Matthew McConaughey 31:04 Well, I'm pretty sure. I'm, I'm almost definite I would've been just as happy because I get... One of the central themes in the book is that when faced with the inevitable, get relative. I'm... That's really one of the key tools in the book, is how do you get relative when you deem a situation inevitable? So how do you start making an upside of what could be perceived a perceived crisis?

Lewis Howes 31:27 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 31:28 Um, when and how we do that is really one of the keys to having to satisfaction in life.

Lewis Howes 31:33 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 31:33 Um, if you do it too early, okay, if say for that instance if I'd have said, "Okay, it's been two years. That's enough. I give. I'm going off to do something else," well, that would've been the wrong choice because I would've been a quitter. Look what happened. I just had to outlast them and it take 20 months. If I'd have pulled the plug at 18 months and done something different, I would've been a quitter, right? I didn't endure enough. But there's also situations that you can bang your head on through endurance where you're actually acting out the definition of insanity. You're, you're trying to get something done the same way over and over and over and not getting the results you want. So you need to back up and then relatively speaking, pivot. Wait, let me re- reapproach this situation. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way. Let me pivot. Then there's other times you just gotta wave the white, white flag and say, "You got it. You win. I'm gonna go fight another battle up here," [laughs] you know? So when do we do one of those, each one of those, with, with every given situation? That's sort of the honey hole, the tool that really, it, it I think is can be helpful to us.

Lewis Howes 32:33 I'm not always watching the award shows. Sometimes they're on and I see them, but it's not like the thing for me to watch. But I remember watching, uh, the year you won the Oscar, and I remember your speech was, has to be one of the most iconic speeches of all time from an awards show. And you talk about chasing your heroes, your 10-year self in the future. I'm curious-

Matthew McConaughey 32:56 Right

Lewis Howes 32:57 ... if you could put yourself 10 years from now, 60, 'cause you just turned 50-

Matthew McConaughey 33:01 Yeah, yeah

Lewis Howes 33:01 ... what would your hero at 60 say about who you are today looking back?

Matthew McConaughey 33:09 Wow. Yeah. It's a great question, and one I think we should all ask ourselves [laughs] had I had that great sit down with our future self. Um, I think he'd say, "Make sure, make sure you trust yourself. Make sure you tr- you did a good job at trusting yourself. But you know what? You could've even trusted yourself more."

Lewis Howes 33:28 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 33:29 You know? You could even trust yourself more. You made some things maybe s- maybe you made some things a little too hard maybe where you didn't need the resistance. Just sit back and trust yourself. So made some things hard because you, you felt like you needed to feel it. Nah, you, you, you had already done the work. You had already, you already laid the, laid the rails on the road. Just now ride 'em. Now stay vital. Keep those rails greased. Keep yourself in shape mentally, spiritually. But overall, you, you've done it. You d- did it. You're do- you're doing good at trusting yourself. Um, and I'm, I'm, I'm proud, proud of how you... You know, my favorite thing about you, 50-year-old Matthew, [laughs] is that you give a damn and, and, and, um, sometimes I wish you would've maybe given yourself a break in places where you didn't. But you know what? That's who you've always been. And shoot, now that I look in the mirror at 60, that's, that's who I still am too. So anyway, um, thanks for getting me here, uh, uh, to- to 60. It's great to see, uh, the kids all out of the house now and, and, and, and, and, and, uh, um, me and, me and, me and our, our wife, uh, Camilla, are having a great time, kinda like a honeymoon again, uh, with the kids are out of the house and we've got a new season in life. And, uh, you, you, you did a, you did a, you did a good job being a parent. You're a good father.

Lewis Howes 34:48 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 34:48 And that was the thing, you know, you always wanted to be. It's the thing we've always known that we wanted to be, the only thing we ever knew we wanted to be. And you, and, and you weren't perfect as a father, but you did a doggone damn good job as a father. Oh, yeah, and let's keep rocking.

Lewis Howes 35:02 And let's keep living, yeah. Um-

Matthew McConaughey 35:04 Yeah

Lewis Howes 35:05 ... that's a beautiful reflection of your future hero.

Matthew McConaughey 35:09 I, I just haven't had one of those before y- I had, till just now. Haven't really thought about it that way. And thank you for asking that question.

Lewis Howes 35:16 Of course. That's beautiful. I'm curious, you mentioned... I wanna ask about your, your dad here in a second and the impact he's made on you and the biggest lessons, but you've talked about your wife many times. What do you admire about your wife the most?

Matthew McConaughey 35:31 I admire how instinctually, without any intellectual mathematics at all, no matter what she's doing, no matter what job she's on, no matter what she's handling, if something comes up to help me or the kids or the family out, she so elegantly sets what she's doing down and comes and handles that and helps and helps, puts family first like that. It is s- and she does it in such a graceful way. Look, hence why she's got 162,000 emails, [laughs] you know what I mean? She's able to do that over there. Me, I would be like, "Y- yeah, I'll, I'll be right there. Let me, let me finish this up," ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. You know what I mean? She's able to just go, "Nope, I know what really, really, really matters."

Lewis Howes 36:26 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 36:26 "This is all, uh, stuff that I should do, but this is not of the greatest import. She... Lewis, I'll be right back." You know? It, very gracefully.

Lewis Howes 36:39 Wow.

Matthew McConaughey 36:39 And she would do it in a way where you wouldn't go, "She walked out on my show." No, you'd be like, it'd be one of the better interviews you had and moments in an interview, 'cause she'd come back and go, "Yeah, my son just had so-and-so and I had to help him with something." And you'd be like, wow, how elegantly she can make that the of most import. At any given time, her family, me and the family, of the most import- at any given time, and how gracefully and elegantly she can do it is my, one of my favorite traits of her.

Lewis Howes 37:08 Hmm. That's beautiful. Now, we have, uh, w- we have a few things in common. We, we both love football. Unfortunately, you like Texas football and I like Ohio State, but we're not in the same conference, so I'll support Texas football from afar, it's okay. If you were from Michigan, it'd be harder for me. Um-

Matthew McConaughey 37:27 I don't know

Lewis Howes 37:27 [laughs] We both have the same middle name, which I just found out about.

Matthew McConaughey 37:32 David.

Lewis Howes 37:33 Yeah, David. So I'm not sure if that's your mom that gave you that.

Matthew McConaughey 37:35 No stavi.

Lewis Howes 37:36 [laughs] I'm not sure if your mom gave you that or your dad gave you that or it was a combination, but we both have the underdog mentality, I like to think, of we're always in that-

Matthew McConaughey 37:47 Yes

Lewis Howes 37:47 ... underdog, David versus Goliath. You've talked about underdog- being an underdog in your book and also in your speeches, uh, um, on YouTube. A lot of great speeches of you on YouTube. Your father, who I'm assuming was a part of giving you the name David, was a, was a big impact on your life. Lot of amazing lessons in this book. Again, I wanna remind people to make sure they get this book if they haven't got Greenlights yet. But your father, um, put a big impact in your life. He passed when you were, I think it was five days in shooting your first movie. Is that correct?

Matthew McConaughey 38:20 Two shooting days, confused. First movie I ever made, yeah.

Lewis Howes 38:23 First movie.

Matthew McConaughey 38:23 August 17th, 1993.

Lewis Howes 38:26 And you were 20...

Matthew McConaughey 38:27 19... 22. 22. So I'm 20, ooh, '92, 22, I think. 22 years old.

Lewis Howes 38:34 So something that was, something we have in common is when I was 22, my dad got into a near-fatal car accident. He was in New Zealand with his, um, his girlfriend at the time. My parents got divorced. It's in his next girlfriend, they were in New Zealand traveling. I was 22 years old. He got in a car accident, was in a coma for three months, and we didn't know if he was gonna live or die. He's still alive today, but he's a completely different man. He's not there physically and emotionally like he was. It was almost like I lost my dad that day emotionally, mentally.

Matthew McConaughey 39:07 Right.

Lewis Howes 39:08 Uh, we can have conversations, but there's a lot of amnesia. It's a lot of asking who I am and things like that of the past. But that moment for me made me... It was a rite of passage. You talk about rite of passages in your life as a man, and it... I would not be where I am today doing the things I'm doing today without that experience of essentially losing my father emotionally and mentally, and you lost him-

Matthew McConaughey 39:30 Yeah

Lewis Howes 39:31 ... physically. He was, he was gone physically from your life at the same age as I did. Where do you think your life would be if he was still here? Do you think you would be able to have the impact you have on humanity? Uh, do you think you'd have the-

Matthew McConaughey 39:45 Hmm

Lewis Howes 39:45 ... the relationship, the children that you have? Um, or would something, would things be different because you don't have the what you call in the book that safety net?

Matthew McConaughey 39:54 It's a great question, and I don't know the answer. I mean, my, my... You know, these existential questions are always fun to go over because it's all a mystery going forward. It's all a science looking back.

Lewis Howes 40:07 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 40:08 And we can connect the dots looking back. Um, you know, I don't know what else I would be doing because this is just what I've done, and I've only done it once and, and done it once. I, I, I do... Maybe I would've, uh... Him passing on and that year in Australia are two moments that I do often question, would I be sitting here right now talking to you with the life I have-

Lewis Howes 40:32 Hmm

Matthew McConaughey 40:32 ... if it wouldn't happened? I've, I, I'm, I'm very confident that I would've had some sort of enriched life that I felt satisfied and felt joy in living if I'd have been doing something else. But at the same time, those moments, what I can really speak to is that I ma- I b- I manned up when he moved on.

Lewis Howes 40:54 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 40:55 I don't know how you, you felt when you, when you, when you, you know, didn't lose your dad physically, but emotionally, I... You know, a father for me was, he, he was my safety net. Those values that he, that he was teaching me, I still had in my hip pocket the, oh, if I only kind of use them 85% of the time, I'm good, 'cause he's got my back. He's above law. He's above government. He's my safety net in case I really need him, so I'm not, I'm kinda half-assing these values he's teaching me, or maybe I'm doing pretty good at them, but I'm not committed 'cause I got him. And then he was gone, basically. And all of a sudden, I was like, "Whoa. Oh." And I remember this. I write about this in the book. I remember this was something that came to me. Just Keep Living came to me, which was about keeping his, his, his spirit and what he taught me alive in life after he's gone. But also, this four words, less impressed, more involved.

Lewis Howes 41:52 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 41:53 I remember things, uh, right after he moved on, things that were mortal in life that I had reverence for, fame, uh, money, uh, success, people. And all of a sudden, while I still respected them, instead of looking up at all of them, they came down to eye level. I looked them in the eye. They were mortal. I had full respect for them, but they were mortal. I could be involved with them and look at them in the eye.

Lewis Howes 42:22 Hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 42:23 Things that I looked down upon, I was condescending, patronizing. "Ah, geez. I don't like that. Look at her. Look at that." All of a sudden, those things, rose up to eye level. The world was flat. I could see further, I could see wider, I could see more clearly, and I was standing taller, and my head was higher, my heart was higher, and I was like, "It's time to man up and become a man, McConaughey, and this is how you need to see the world. You need to have the courage to follow through." And that does not mean... You know, that is always not the, the most popular decisions. Quit, quit half-assing yourself. Quit doing things just to get along or, or, or, or if you disagree with it. Um, you know, what, eh, don't, don't... We're not gonna be that, that guy who makes the joke at the party that makes more people laugh, but everyone walks away disrespecting you more. You know? What are your... It is the beginning of understanding, when do you, what are the choices you make? Again, the compounding assets that our choices, the choices we make, compounding assets for our future. How do we be more true to and kind to our future selves? How do we start making some more choices, make choices that, by hook or by crook, they, they, they're g- you know, they're gonna be brave, courageous choices that you can look in the mirror if it works and go, "Yep, I'm responsible." And if they don't work, you can go, "Yep, that's on me." Um, quit living in limbo. You know? Straddling the fence here or there. Be smart, don't be foolish. Don't dive in. Courage to take more risks. Courage to get uncomfortable with that fame and be able to go, "The world needs you here right now. The studio wants you to pick out a picture. You're as hot as can be, but I don't care. I gotta check out with it and go spend some time with me to figure out this [censored] ." The, the courage to do those things. I don't know if I'd have done those things-

Lewis Howes 44:16 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 44:16 ... if I had the courage to do them, because maybe I would've still been stuck in, "No, I'm so happy to be here. I'm so impressed to be here. I'm so thankful I have these options and these, these possibilities for success. Thank you." Well, if you're so impressed with something in your life, even our relationships, you can't really be involved in them. If you're overly impressed with me or I'm overly impressed with you, you and I can't even have a real conversation.

Lewis Howes 44:43 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 44:43 Because one of us is holding the other on a pedestal.

Lewis Howes 44:46 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 44:46 Look at our relationships.

Lewis Howes 44:47 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 44:47 Our girlfriends, our wives, our friends, if we hold them up on a pedestal, it's unfair. We don't really have a relationship with them. They're, they're, they're, they're... We've, we've got them in this immortal bubble of being a superhuman or a superwoman. It's not fair to them. And then what happens in the reflection of their eyes? They see us the same way, then we're both dealing with, uh, we're both for rent. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 45:12 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 45:12 We're, we're, we're both not, not l- like, we're both too impressed with each other to be actually be involved.

Lewis Howes 45:17 It s- I mean, it sounds like you learned a lot from, from his passing and, and you grew a lot and you, you s- you held true to that cor- that courage that you're talking about, which I think has made you the man you are today.

Matthew McConaughey 45:28 Tried to. I-

Lewis Howes 45:28 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 45:29 ... I've tried to. I mean, it's a constant, as, as you know, it's, it's a, it's constant in process work.

Lewis Howes 45:35 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 45:35 I've evolved my questions and, and, and, and, and, and, and eliminated a lot of things in my life that did not feed me, did not turn me, uh, turn on my true self. I've tried to eliminate those, um, and keep more things in front of me that are things that will feed me and feed my best wolf, since we got two wolves in us.

Lewis Howes 45:53 Yeah, we do. I love that story.

Matthew McConaughey 45:54 The good one and the bad one. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 45:55 I love that story. What do you think are the five things we should all eliminate to live a better life?

Matthew McConaughey 46:01 First, get rid, we gotta, we gotta quit hanging out with those, those people that, that sort of only turn on our most banal selves.

Lewis Howes 46:07 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 46:07 It, it... Sometimes they're the easiest people to go to.

Lewis Howes 46:10 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 46:10 Because they're the life of the party. I've been, I've been that guy before. Like I said, the life of the party, tell the joke that's about someone that's not in the group. It's on them. We all snicker and it's great. You got the biggest laugh of kind of night, but everyone walks away going, "I don't respect him as much."

Lewis Howes 46:25 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 46:26 So again, one of those long-term choices. Think about long money, not short money. Long money. [laughs] Um, places. Hey, man, geez, why do I, why do I have a, a, a nasty hangover every time I go to that bar? I don't know. Is it the drink? Is it the people? Is it what- whatever it is, I just don't, don't... Every time I wake up the next morning after going to that bar or that place, I feel, eh, eh. Well, eliminate that. Quit trying to make that place work. We gotta eliminate this thing, this habit we all have in society right now, which is, I raise me up if I put you down.

Lewis Howes 47:00 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 47:00 It's false.

Lewis Howes 47:01 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 47:01 It does not have a return. There's no ROI in that.

Lewis Howes 47:06 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 47:06 It appears to be. It goes back to that what do we tell millennials about everyone living online and social media with comments. It's, there's this false sort of impetus that, oh, I'm taller. I win if I make sure you lose. That's not winning, you know? The, the... There's room for us both to win a blue ribbon.

Lewis Howes 47:24 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 47:24 But we may do something different. And to covet or be jealous of your success, and if I don't like you, and I'm, "He can lose, man. I wanna see that guy fall." That's a, that's, that, that's... You're giving yourself a disease to think-

Lewis Howes 47:40 Yes

Matthew McConaughey 47:40 ... "Oh, that's gonna raise me up."

Lewis Howes 47:42 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 47:42 So again, it's short money. It's short money.

Lewis Howes 47:45 Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 47:46 It may be even counterfeit. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 47:49 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 47:49 You know? Um, there's a few things. Um, you know, we have a, we have a, a, we've had this tendency to, to, we, we, we put our finger and point out disease before we point, point out health.

Lewis Howes 48:01 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 48:02 We rubberneck at the car wreck on the other side. Love to see a wreck. Wow. You know what I mean? Dissect, here we go, we love to dissect problems. Well, start dissecting success. Start looking and deconstructing your life, your choices, those people you're hanging around with, those places when things are going well. When you're like, "Ah, I feel like I finally caught a groove here."

Lewis Howes 48:29 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 48:29 Well, go, go put the pen to paper or look down or start dissecting, what am I doing? 'Cause there's a habit. There's a, there's a sci- there's some science to satisfaction, and we don't just get there by dissecting our failures and when we're in a rut. We need to be confident enough to go, "Well, things are going well and I can't take this for granted. What is it I'm doing? Oh, I prepared more. I w- I, I, I didn't have stress." I mean, it comes down to the, I always call this delayed gratification.

Lewis Howes 48:56 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 48:57 Teeing yourself up for a greenlight. Starts with the simplest thing, and this is what I mean. Enjoy b- Putting the coffee in the coffee filter the night before so the next morning you can get up and just go, boop, press the button. Aha, look at me, I teed myself up for a Saturday. I got a green light. Instead of the next morning going, "Oh, gee, where is it?" 'Cause sometimes it's hard to make your coffee when you hadn't had your coffee.

Lewis Howes 49:18 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 49:18 Like it's hard to find your glasses when you don't have your glasses on. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 49:22 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 49:22 I mean, tee yourself up for some little pleasures, some Saturdays. Tee yourself up for some green lights. Kiddos, work, you gotta... You know, it's Friday, you got that, you got that, uh, that morning meeting you're gonna lead on Monday morning, or you got that homework you gotta turn in, and you just finished on Friday, and you wanna go kick back and head out and relax, 'cause you're gonna wait till I'll do it Sunday night. Sometimes it's pretty cool to go, "You know what? I'm gonna get it done right now."

Lewis Howes 49:47 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 49:48 Because Sunday, dude, I'm gonna watch some football. I may be hanging out with my friends.

Lewis Howes 49:52 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 49:52 Sunday night game may be a good one, too.

Lewis Howes 49:54 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 49:54 I may wanna go late, and I don't wanna have to think and I go like, "Oh, I gotta get home and do that." So I'm gonna tee up myself for some freedom on Sunday night by handling the stuff right now, so Sunday night I can be like, "I'm ready for tomorrow. I'm ready for Monday." And look, that doesn't mean don't be a hedonist. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 50:11 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 50:12 That doesn't mean, unless the responsibility and the freedom, that doesn't mean you're not free. It's actually giving yourself more freedom.

Lewis Howes 50:17 Yep.

Matthew McConaughey 50:17 Um, it's actually giving yourself more pleasure, uh, later on. I l- I love delayed gratification. It's one of the things you'll see when you have, if you have children, it's one of the great things I think to try and get them to understand. You know, when I, when I won the Oscar for Dallas Buyers Club, I had a really cool teaching lesson. My kids were like, "What's the trophy for?" And I said, "Well, it was given to me 'cause my people in my, in my industry deemed my work really excellent." They go, "Yeah, but what's it for?" And I went, "You remember a year and a half ago when Papa was really skinny and you said his neck looked like a, a giraffe?" And they're like, "Yeah."

Lewis Howes 50:50 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 50:50 And I go, "Remember how you'd wake up and Papa was already gone to work, and then Papa would get home and we'd have a dinner, and then he'd have to go study and go to sleep, and he did that for, like, two months and, and he was gone all day?" They're like, "Yeah." I go, "What I was doing, that was d- all every day then. Someone gave me a trophy for today a year and a half later."

Lewis Howes 51:09 Wow.

Matthew McConaughey 51:11 So what you do today, what I was trying to get across to them is, like, the, what you do today ma- can matter tomorrow. You can be rewarded for it. If you do re- something really well today, you can be rewarded. You can get a green light for that later on in life.

Lewis Howes 51:25 You may not get the reward today.

Matthew McConaughey 51:27 You may not get it today. So trust that you can be rewarded. At the same time, let's look at the inverse, inversion of that. Go ahead, lie, cheat, steal. All right. Now what? Lie, cheat, steal, broke up on the text, cheated on so-and-so, whatever, whatever. I'm not buying green lights to the future. Why? Because now everywhere I go, I gotta look over my shoulder and see if someone's there that I owe money or someone's there that I cheated. And all of a sudden now I'm not present and I'm stressing because someone goes, "Oh, yes, so-and-so is here," and you're like, "Oh, [censored] I d-..." That's not a green light. It's a yellow light. It's stress. Unnecessary stress because I left crumbs then, yesterday. Don't leave the crumbs. Tee yourself up for some freedom. The responsibility of not, of, of picking up your crumbs, to handling stuff, buys you your green lights, freedom in the future where you're going like, "I'm, I'm, I'm fine. I can walk in anywhere. I don't have to look over my shoulder. I'm living and do my best to live a life where I don't have to live over my shoulder." It's a good thing for us each to do with ourselves.

Lewis Howes 52:24 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 52:26 And it's selfish. That's the other thing. It's selfish. And I have a full redefinition of selfish. I'm for what is selfish. It's also selfless.

Lewis Howes 52:34 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 52:34 But it's teeing yourself up. It's being cool to and kind to your future self. And it's also what's best for the most amount of people.

Lewis Howes 52:44 Absolutely.

Matthew McConaughey 52:44 Call it the egotistically utilitarian. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 52:47 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 52:47 You know?

Lewis Howes 52:49 You, you mentioned how, um, you know, a lot of people are trying to tear other people's buildings down. Uh-

Matthew McConaughey 52:54 Yeah

Lewis Howes 52:54 ... when I, when I interviewed Kevin Hart, he said that, you know, s- greatness was about helping other people succeed as well, not just you succeeding and tearing other people down, but also making winners around you and building other people up around you is someone who's great.

Matthew McConaughey 53:09 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 53:10 I lo- I love this quote by Jim Carrey. I, I don't know if I'm gonna say it correctly, but he said, "I hope everyone becomes rich and famous so they can realize that's not the, the answer to life." Something like that he said in a speech one time.

Matthew McConaughey 53:23 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 53:25 It, it seems like so many people on social media wanna become rich and famous. What have you learned about both of those things, and what advice would you have to someone who is working so hard for fame and money-

Matthew McConaughey 53:39 Here we go

Lewis Howes 53:39 ... based on the lessons you've learned?

Matthew McConaughey 53:41 Love it. Look, first off, what have we all learned about rich and famous? If you are rich and famous, you can be president. Ta-da.

Lewis Howes 53:49 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 53:50 Um, now, look at the definition of success. If you go back in the original Webster's Dictionary and read the definition of success, it is vastly different from the definition of success today. We have put, especially in America, fame and money at the top of the ladder for what you need to get to succeed, to be successful. And if you're successful, you have respect of peers because you're famous, because you've got more money. Our, our, our, the order of what we're telling our children and ourselves to aspire to, it's out of order. It, it, it's not, it's not in order. We, we, we have... It's, it's, it's part of the reason we have distrust in leadership today. I d- there's nothing wrong with pursuing money. I love money. There's nothing wrong with, with fame. It's fickle. It... Fame is, is, is a mistress. It's not a, it's not a wife. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 54:44 Right. [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 54:45 Um, so, you know, [laughs] and you have little, you know, trysts with fame and, and, and, and... But it, it, it's not a, it's not a, it's not a s- uh, uh, an end-all stay. It's not a real destination. Um, or I don't think it should be. Nothing wrong with pursuing it. Um, but then when we get into this question, okay, so we all want relevance. We want this money. We, we want relevance. Yes, I agree with that. I do too. Relevance for what? That's the question we ought to ask ourself.

Lewis Howes 55:13 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 55:14 What do we wanna be relevant for? Wanna, wanna be famous because I made a sex tape? I'm pretty, pretty sure I can get famous if I do that.

Lewis Howes 55:22 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 55:23 Pretty sure you can get famous if you do that. Well, is that what you wanna be famous for? Eh, I don't know. I'll pass on that one. Normally... [sighs] It's, it's, you know, it's, it's at, it's a bit out of order and we need to ask ourself that question. All right, if we wanna be relevant, which everyone does, uh, what do I wanna be relevant for? I think that's just g- a good question to ask ourselves. And, and, and, again, coming off what you said Kevin Hart said, yeah, we want it for us, but can we be, can we, can we be famous for f- for doing something that we enjoy, but also other people, it, it builds up other people as well? That's... We don't have to. Again, I'm gonna go to Barkley here for a second. You get rich and famous, that's not your, I don't believe it's your responsibility to be charitable.

Lewis Howes 56:06 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 56:06 No, it's your choice. It's a choice for anybody. It's your choice to make or not. It's not responsibility because I'm in a position to. No, I have to make the choice. Now, that may be a more responsible choice by me that gives me more freedom because I feel better helping other people out, and it makes me feel good selfishly when I see them receive something and go, "Wow, thank you," which is a selfish good feeling. So it has payback that I would say is, again, right there, responsibility and freedom, that it's paying me back and it's paying some other people back. Um, I would stick with that. I would just, you know, un- end, end it on that.

Lewis Howes 56:42 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 56:42 We wanna be relevant.

Lewis Howes 56:43 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 56:43 Ask ourselves for what. Money and success. Look at the definition of success today and the definition in the original Webster tex- dictionary, and it is out of order, especially in America, what we are telling each other to aspire to be to b- be deemed successful, to get respect.

Lewis Howes 57:00 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 57:01 When Donald Trump became president, it was so... I had so many p- friends that were so surprised. I'm like, "What are you talking about?" At the very base of it, the, just the, the lowest common denominator, what do we tell people to be in this country? Rich and famous. He was that. He was on TV and he was rich. That's what we tell everyone is successful. So it's not surprising he became president. Wasn't to me. That's what we've been telling you, w- telling everyone you need to be to succeed in life. Again, if that's your only pursuit and you disregard certain integrity and you disregard being true to, being as true as you can to yourself, that's short money.

Lewis Howes 57:36 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 57:37 Very long money.

Lewis Howes 57:38 Ooh, get that long money, baby. That's why I love your, your-

Matthew McConaughey 57:41 Long money

Lewis Howes 57:42 [laughs] Your Instagram bio I love, 'cause it says, "Husband, father, then actor." You, you lead-

Matthew McConaughey 57:49 Yeah

Lewis Howes 57:49 ... with the thing that's, um... You know, you wanna be relevant for, that you wanna be known for, that you're, you care about deeply the most, which I really admire and respect about you. Even though that may be some small, subtle thing that someone doesn't see or recognize, I recognize that that's there purposefully for you. It's not-

Matthew McConaughey 58:06 Yes

Lewis Howes 58:06 ... you know, Oscar award-winning best actor in the world, People magazine Sexiest Man Alive. Uh, although that's fun too and you can put that out there, but that's not what you lead with.

Matthew McConaughey 58:16 True. True.

Lewis Howes 58:16 Which I think is-

Matthew McConaughey 58:17 No

Lewis Howes 58:18 ... I, I... My thought is that's very intentional that you did that and, um-

Matthew McConaughey 58:22 It is

Lewis Howes 58:23 ... I, I, I recognize that, so I think I admire that a lot about you. I know I have seven minutes left with you, just wanna be very respectful of your time and ask you-

Matthew McConaughey 58:31 Sure

Lewis Howes 58:31 ... a few fi- a few final questions. Again, I'm gonna-

Matthew McConaughey 58:34 Yeah

Lewis Howes 58:34 ... keep mentioning this. Make sure you guys get this book, Greenlights, because it's truly inspiring. Some incredible stories. Matthew goes in deeper on a lot of these topics and gives you a lot of fun, humorous, powerful, emotional stories to tie into to remember as well about these lessons. So check this out. My, my question for you, uh, I've got a few final questions. One is, what is your biggest fear, and what's been the biggest fear you've ever had to overcome?

Matthew McConaughey 59:02 My biggest fear. I tell you my, my least favorite feeling and a certain emotion, a feeling that I have, I constantly am challenged and battled with, is a sense of significance. And I think a lot of that comes from... And this may go back to my 60-year-old self telling my 50-year-old self, "Hey, you could have trusted yourself a little more."

Lewis Howes 59:22 Uh-huh.

Matthew McConaughey 59:22 But I, I, I, I feel a need so often to a- a- achieve-

Lewis Howes 59:29 Hmm

Matthew McConaughey 59:29 ... accomplish. At the same time, I know in my heart that, as we've been saying, you don't... There's no destination. [laughs] It's all a verb. Life's a verb. It's a process. You don't ever achieve. So I'm trying to reframe that into going, keep achieving in the pursuit of the unachievable. [laughs] I mean, and, and make steps. So I do wanna evolve, but a lot of times I'll emotionally feel insignificant if I don't achieve something.

Lewis Howes 59:57 Interesting.

Matthew McConaughey 59:58 And I think it's a, a, a... Sometimes it's good, 'cause I, 'cause it, it is good to accomplish. It is good to set a goal, get what we want, go after it. Other times it's like you kinda just need to sit still or just stay in pr- stay in your perpetual motion and go forward and quit... You're m- Don't miss the process for the, for, for, for se- for s- the, the clinching seek of the result.

Lewis Howes 1:00:17 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:18 And don't let the result tell you, "Oh, now I'm significant." You know what I mean? Um, at the same time, I've had a l- a lot better results when I was stuck to the process-

Lewis Howes 1:00:30 Oh

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:30 ... when I wasn't as worried about the result, when I... The best golfers shoot the best rounds when they walk off 18 thinking they're going to the next tee box and someone's gotta tell them, "No, you finished the round. You shot 63." [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:00:42 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:43 "Oh, I did?" You know? I've done my best work when we wrap and I'm like, "Okay, see y'all tomorrow morning," and they're like, "No, that's it. We wrapped. The show is over." And you're like, "Oh, really? Oh, wow." Stay in the zone, in the process, and I've found that more results will come your way. Um, so I've, I've, I've, I've battled that, I battle that sometimes of making sure to remind myself to stay in that, because I can get result-oriented to an extent that I don't feel a sense of significance or a real lineage to my identity-

Lewis Howes 1:01:15 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:16 ... achieve the thing that I wanna achieve. And I find out later maybe it wasn't what I needed to a- to be, or it wasn't what I was really trying to achieve anyway. But I sometimes need a measurement. I need... can have more patience with myself to go, "That's really not..." This is part of the process because there's another achievement down the line that you don't even know you're working towards.

Lewis Howes 1:01:33 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:34 You know what I mean? So, so give yourself a break. You're in process. Stay in process. Um-

Lewis Howes 1:01:38 I think, I think this is really powerful for, uh, any goal-oriented, driven person, whether they're an actor or not, uh, to realize that even you deal with that challenge, that fear that, I don't know if I'd call it insecurity, but a fear of-

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:55 Sure

Lewis Howes 1:01:55 ... mm, you know, am I making, having significance in my work, and, you know, am I still relevant in my work? Or whatever the thing is that's, I think-

Matthew McConaughey 1:02:02 How am I doing as a father? How am I doing-

Lewis Howes 1:02:04 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 1:02:04 ... as a husband? You know? Um, a- a- am I doing as good as I can do in, in those-

Lewis Howes 1:02:09 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 1:02:10 ... places, in my relationships? Can I be a better friend? You know?

Lewis Howes 1:02:13 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:02:14 Oh, I could've been a better friend. I could've done that better, you know? And so...

Lewis Howes 1:02:17 That's, that's beautiful. I'm glad... Thank you for opening up about that. And I, I gotta be respectful of your time. We got three minutes.

Matthew McConaughey 1:02:22 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:02:22 So I wanna ask these two final questions. Uh, this is called the three truths. I ask this question to everyone at the end of my interviews, and it's a hypothetical question.

Matthew McConaughey 1:02:32 Okay.

Lewis Howes 1:02:32 So you've written a memoir at 50. You share a lot of your wisdom and truths in here. I would imagine you're 100, you're 150, you're as old as you wanna be, and, uh, for whatever reason, hypothetically, all the movies, the books, the work, the interviews that you've done in your life, they all gotta go with you to the next place. So no one has access to Matthew McConaughey's content anymore.

Matthew McConaughey 1:02:55 Okay.

Lewis Howes 1:02:55 Uh, it's all gone, um, with you to the next world, wherever that is. But you get to leave behind a note, a love note to the world that is your three truths, that this is all people would have to remember you by from your content. And it would be the three lessons that you would leave behind to the rest of us, uh, or what I like to call your three truths. What would you say would be yours?

Matthew McConaughey 1:03:18 Ooh, great question. Uh, let me riff here. Let me... Mm, mm, mm. Um, value values. Make sense of humor your default emotion. And remember that you will have thousands of crisises in your life, and most of them will never happen.

Lewis Howes 1:03:38 Oh. [laughs] Those are... I don't think I've heard those three before. Out of 1,000-plus episodes, I don't think I've heard those three, so those are, those are beautiful. Um, I wanna acknowledge you, Matthew, for the significance that you continue to make every single day in your life, whether it's a fear or you feel like you're not. I think it's amazing the, the way you show up. You show up for your wife. You show up for your kids. You show up for the work you do. Uh, and even, uh, I was chatting with, uh, Emmanuel the other day, who you did the second episode, I believe, of Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man.

Matthew McConaughey 1:04:14 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:04:14 And you show up in moments when the world is uncertain or when our country and our nation is going through so much, uh, unease, and you continue to show up and make a significance in so many people's lives. So I wanna acknowledge you, Matthew, for being fun-loving, for living life, for, you know, doing your thing, uh, but also for being a real human being every single day to the best of your ability. And obviously we're not perfect, but I, I see you showing up, and you're making a difference, and I really acknowledge that, beyond the awards and the acknowledgements and the, the acting. So I really, I really acknowledge that for you, man. Um-

Matthew McConaughey 1:04:50 Well, thank you for that, Lewis

Lewis Howes 1:04:51 Of course. My final question is coming, but make sure you guys get this book. I'm telling you, it's gonna be a game changer for you. Go get it right now, Greenlights. You're gonna love it. Get it for a friend as well. It'll be the best gift you get them all year. Final question really quick: What's your definition of greatness?

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:06 [laughs] Greatness.

Lewis Howes 1:05:09 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:13 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:05:14 [laughs] Whew.

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:15 Well, you know I love unanimous, and you know I love perfection, even though, even though I don't think I'll ever achieve them or that they either are achievable in, uh, this life. Greatness is pursuing that, s- staying in the race, committing to the chase to be a better self, be better families, communities, civilizations, and people. Stay in the ra- I m- um, um, America's promise, our country's promise is, is opportunity and greatness. We're not ever gonna arrive. The top... See, during the times that we're in right now, culture revolution, we're not gonna come out of this and go, "Oh, now we've found perfect justice." No. But as long as we keep evolving, as long as we got an ascension, that's called evolution. Stay in the chase. Commit to the chase. Stay in the race, and that's greatness. That, uh, it's, it's staying in, in the process of the chase.

Lewis Howes 1:06:07 Hm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:06:07 Accepting yet.

Lewis Howes 1:06:10 My man, Matthew McConaughey, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate you.

Matthew McConaughey 1:06:15 Lewis, David, I enjoyed it.

Lewis Howes 1:06:16 Appreciate it, man. If you want more greatness in your life, then you gotta check out this video right here.

1:06:23 He had a great quote that said, "Rest at the end, not in the middle." And that's something I always live by. You know, I'm not gonna rest, and I'm gonna keep on pushing now. There are a lot of answers that I don't have and even questions that I don't have, but I'm just gonna keep going