Secret Service Agent: Trust Your Gut and Read People Instantly (This is What I Do!)

Evy Poumpouras 0:00 I've sat across people who've done horrible things, and you think you're gonna have this monster in front of you. They're nothing special.

Lewis Howes 0:06 Really?

Evy Poumpouras 0:07 When you look at these folks, who do they typically target? Women and children. If you're such an apex predator, why are you picking on these populations?

Lewis Howes 0:15 Interesting.

Evy Poumpouras 0:15 Because they're easier to take down. I'm not picking somebody of equal capacity to me, because I'm a coward.

Lewis Howes 0:21 Evy Poumpouras

Evy Poumpouras 0:22 ... is a security expert and former Secret Service agent

Lewis Howes 0:24 Who protected presidents and, and also worked as an interrogator Agent Evy Poumpouras.

Evy Poumpouras 0:29 No two people lie the same. The body leaks information. You shut up, you sit back, you ask questions, you let people talk. I get a good feel of you, and then I watch what you do with your body. I watch the shifts. Your intuition or your instincts, like, that's a legitimate thing. You can call it whatever you want. I'm a very instrumental, rational-thinking person, but at the same time, I feel people, and if it feels off, I'll either steer away from you, or if I have to work with you, I'm gonna be careful. You wanna make people feel connected to you.

Lewis Howes 0:57 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 0:58 Now, it's not about making people like us, but it's about creating an environment in which people feel like they want to be around you. My goal is to build a relationship with you, so how can I do that? [upbeat music]

Lewis Howes 1:16 It's been so amazing.

Evy Poumpouras 1:18 Last year was just a transformative, life-changing event.

Lewis Howes 1:21 Team Greatness is great. My name is Lewis Howes. Thanks so much for being here. And before we dive into this special video today, I wanna remind you about the Summit of Greatness, our annual conference happening this September in Los Angeles, with David Goggins, Dr. Joe Dispenza, and many more incredible speakers and performers. There will be so many live attendees there that you can meet with, you can network with, and you can help transform your life. Make sure to click the link in the description to get your tickets, and I can't wait to see you at the Summit of Greatness here in Los Angeles. Hey, Lewis Howes here. I'm so glad that you're here. We have a powerful episode with Evy Poumpouras, a former Secret Service agent, and this one's all about how to protect your energy, how to claim your power back, and create boundaries within your life so people don't take advantage of you. I'm so excited about this. If it's your first time here, make sure to subscribe to the channel and leave a comment of your biggest takeaway below in the comments. And also, we have another episode with Evy that came out with over a million views. Check out that one after this interview. We'll have it linked in the description. You said 1 in 25 people have sociopathic tendencies or are sociopaths?

Evy Poumpouras 2:40 So, like, you can be... Look, you can have that tendency and not be a serial killer.

Lewis Howes 2:44 Okay, yeah. [laughs] Yeah, yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 2:45 You can, you can be antisocial disorder

Evy Poumpouras 2:48 or even narcissistic disorder. You can have those. Look, antisocial disorder or narcissistic disorder, again, it, I don't have my DSM-5 in front of me, but those are the two disorders that lack empathy. The problem with those is they're capable of causing you harm and not feeling bad.

Lewis Howes 3:05 Gotcha.

Evy Poumpouras 3:05 That's the issue. Lack of empathy here is the problem. Most people, when they cause you harm, afterward they'll feel bad, whether it's physical harm-

Lewis Howes 3:14 Right

Evy Poumpouras 3:14 ... or if they gossip about you.

Lewis Howes 3:16 They'll apologize. They'll feel remorse. Like-

Evy Poumpouras 3:18 Yes. Or maybe they won't apologize, but they will feel bad about it. With these disorders, they lack empathy. It means I don't feel bad.

Lewis Howes 3:28 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 3:28 And that's where the red flag is, 'cause I can cause you harm on a consistent basis and not feel bad.

Lewis Howes 3:36 It doesn't mean you're gonna go kill someone.

Evy Poumpouras 3:37 No, it does not.

Lewis Howes 3:39 Right. [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 3:39 It doesn't.

Lewis Howes 3:39 That's why you're saying sociopath. [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 3:40 If anybody has this, it's okay. You're not a killer. No. But I mean, it, there's a degree there. Uh, look, there's other things that get laced into people who can become serial killers. You know what's interesting? When they do these profiles, you always label these serial killers or these people that do these things as these horrible, like, predators and monsters, and, like, we kind of elevate them to such a degree. I've sat across people who've done horrible things, and you think you're gonna have this monster in front of you, and it's, they're-

Lewis Howes 4:10 Just a normal person

Evy Poumpouras 4:10 ... they're nothing special.

Lewis Howes 4:11 Really?

Evy Poumpouras 4:12 Nope. They've been beat up. They've been let down. Some of them are super meek. Um-

Lewis Howes 4:17 Really?

Evy Poumpouras 4:17 Yes. You would... They look... They're nice. They're quiet. They're, they're not this thing that you label. They're not-

Lewis Howes 4:23 They'll connect with you. They'll look in your eyes. They'll respond to you.

Evy Poumpouras 4:25 They'll do that, but they're also not these, these apex predators that we make them out to be. When you look at these folks, who do they typically target? Who are their victims?

Lewis Howes 4:36 Vulnerable women.

Evy Poumpouras 4:37 Yes. Women and children.

Lewis Howes 4:39 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 4:40 The number, actually, the number one population that gets victimized the most are children, 'cause they're the most help- helpless, then women-

Lewis Howes 4:45 Mm-hmm

Evy Poumpouras 4:45 ... then el- elderly.

Lewis Howes 4:46 Wow.

Evy Poumpouras 4:47 So if you're such an apex predator, why are you picking on these populations?

Lewis Howes 4:51 Interesting.

Evy Poumpouras 4:52 Because they're easier to take down.

Lewis Howes 4:54 Less conflict.

Evy Poumpouras 4:55 Less conflict. It's easier for me to take you. I'm not picking somebody of equal capacity to me-

Lewis Howes 5:00 Or bigger

Evy Poumpouras 5:00 ... because I'm a coward.

Lewis Howes 5:01 Ooh. Yeah, that's true.

Evy Poumpouras 5:04 That's how you know.

Lewis Howes 5:04 [laughs] What's the common theme from all the different serial killers you've interviewed that they all have in common?

Evy Poumpouras 5:12 I can't say I've interviewed a lot.

Lewis Howes 5:13 Yeah, yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 5:13 Um-

Lewis Howes 5:14 Or just people that have done horrible things to others.

Evy Poumpouras 5:18 They justify it.

Lewis Howes 5:19 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 5:19 They sell it to themselves. I'll tell you this. Usually people who commit some ki- type of violent crime, those were actually easier for me to get confessions on.

Lewis Howes 5:27 Really?

Evy Poumpouras 5:28 Because most people, excluding-

Lewis Howes 5:30 They have an ego around it, huh?

Evy Poumpouras 5:32 Most people feel bad. Aside from the two disorders that we talked about, aside from the disorder where there's a lack of empathy, most people

Evy Poumpouras 5:39 feel bad for, of what they, for what they did, and they'll tell you. So they'll admit to it. So those were easier. Financial crimes, money crimes, scams, the stuff we're seeing now online, those are really hard to get people to confess to. In fact, people do it, and they don't feel bad. That's why they're so prolific. There's these massive scams happening, social media-

Lewis Howes 5:58 Oh, it's crazy

Evy Poumpouras 5:59 ... apps, Tinder. Sorry, Tinder.

Lewis Howes 6:01 Yeah, yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 6:01 You know.

Lewis Howes 6:01 No, it's crazy.

Evy Poumpouras 6:02 Uh, banks. Because we don't feel bad. I'm not actually touching you.

Lewis Howes 6:06 Touching you, yeah. We've seen this, I mean- So many people are impersonating me and other people. I don't know where they're at, what country they're at, but they're sending emails from a fake lewishowes.live@gmail or Hotmail email, using my photo, my name, sending an email saying, "Hey, we'd love to have you on the show. We'll pay you $2,000, $3,000. It'll be live on Facebook." And they get on Zooms with them, and they give them access to their Facebook, and they take it over, and this has happened multiple times. And it's like every time we try to shut it down, they just create a new email, and they're just email, spamming everyone, I guess. And they're not interacting with them in person, right? It's like it's digital.

Evy Poumpouras 6:45 I don't feel bad.

Lewis Howes 6:46 They probably feel, they feel less remorse, right?

Evy Poumpouras 6:47 A lot of times they're done from overseas.

Lewis Howes 6:49 Uh-huh.

Evy Poumpouras 6:50 So that's another problem. They're done in other countries, and there'll be countries, um, where there's... I don't wanna say what country specifically.

Lewis Howes 6:59 Sure.

Evy Poumpouras 6:59 I don't wanna target a specific-

Lewis Howes 7:00 Right, right, right

Evy Poumpouras 7:00 ... country, but there's certain countries. There's one predominantly in Africa-

Lewis Howes 7:03 Mm-hmm

Evy Poumpouras 7:03 ... that's very notorious for this-

Lewis Howes 7:05 Mm-hmm

Evy Poumpouras 7:05 ... um, where they're so struggling financially in their Third World country that they look at it like, "Look, I know what I'm doing is not great, but who am I really hurting?" It's like $1,000.

Lewis Howes 7:17 They have money. It's nothing. Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 7:18 It's not.

Lewis Howes 7:18 They do this to elderly, too. A lot of elderly are getting scammed.

Evy Poumpouras 7:21 El- so elderly people get scammed the most when it comes to money-

Lewis Howes 7:26 [clears throat]

Evy Poumpouras 7:26 ... because it is known by people who commit fraud that at that point they've got some money saved. They're collecting some kind of retirement. They have a pension. So what they'll do is they'll target them for, "Hey, we'll invest your money," or, "Hey, buy this life insurance. Hey, we'll protect your money." They get scammed financially. I had quite a few of those scams. I remember one woman, she got defrauded. She was part of a bigger case. It's actually very hard to prosecute these cases on a federal level. Sometimes I'd have cases where I had scams, but the dollar amount wasn't high enough for a-

Lewis Howes 7:57 Gosh

Evy Poumpouras 7:57 ... US attorney to take. And so I would have to fight. They'd say, "Find me more victims." But I'm like, "I got the guy. Here-

Lewis Howes 8:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Evy Poumpouras 8:03 ... he is with a b- I got a nice bow on this case and everything." The dollar amount's too low. I remember one woman we found, it was, she was part of a collective group that had been defrauded. She was elderly. We found the person. He was charged criminally, but the issue now is how to get money back, and I think hers was, like, 30 grand.

Lewis Howes 8:21 Right.

Evy Poumpouras 8:22 So on the big scheme of things, on, on an investigative standpoint, it's not a lot, but for her it was-

Lewis Howes 8:26 For her, it's life-changing

Evy Poumpouras 8:27 ... she, so she would call me.

Lewis Howes 8:29 Ugh.

Evy Poumpouras 8:29 "Can you help me get my money? Can you help me get my money?"

Lewis Howes 8:32 Oh.

Evy Poumpouras 8:32 "They found them guilty. Who's gonna give me my money?"

Lewis Howes 8:34 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 8:34 And, and I wanted to... I listened to her, and I'm like, "Ma'am, your money's gone."

Lewis Howes 8:38 Gone.

Evy Poumpouras 8:38 This guy, she's... And we would seize, you'd seize assets, you'd seize cars. But-

Lewis Howes 8:43 Didn't matter

Evy Poumpouras 8:43 ... one, that's devalued. Two, they blow that money on dinners out. One guy was doing 5,000 diller- dinners with, like, clients. Where are you gonna get that money back?

Lewis Howes 8:53 No.

Evy Poumpouras 8:53 Or they're going on vacation. And so people are left with, you'll get justice in that that person gets charged criminally. But once they're in prison, where are you gonna get your money?

Lewis Howes 9:04 Your money's gone. Um, in your book, Becoming Bulletproof-

Evy Poumpouras 9:09 I like the shout-out. Thank you

Lewis Howes 9:10 ... you, yeah, of course. You have a chapter that says everybody lies, and you talk about these four red flags. I think there's four main red flags on-

Evy Poumpouras 9:19 Everybody lies

Lewis Howes 9:19 ... on how to spot, um, why people lie, how people lie, and these kind of red flags. And you also say don't take it personally when someone does lie. But I'm curious, can you share these, I guess, these main red flags of why people lie?

Evy Poumpouras 9:35 So there are a lot of different red flags to why people lie. First, y- the three dominant ways people lie is they, if they, they'll lie completely. I'll just make up something from beginning to end. It's a lie. Second way we, we lie is truth mixed with lies. So it's truth, lies, truth, lies. The predominant way people lie, I lie by omission. I just don't tell you.

Lewis Howes 9:56 Without saying.

Evy Poumpouras 9:57 So I don't feel bad. There's, that's where guilt comes in. I don't feel guilty. You didn't ask me, so I'm not gonna tell you. The problem with that is you leave it out, but sometimes it changes the whole context of the story. So that's one. So that's when I say everybody lies. And look, it can be a lie of you and I see each other, "Hey, Lewis, how are you?" "Oh, I'm so good. How are you?" "Evy, I'm so happy to see you." Maybe you're not happy to see me, 'cause the last time I completely dominated the conversation, and you're just like, "Evy, shut it."

Lewis Howes 10:23 [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 10:24 Maybe, but you're like, "Evy, so good to have you." That's a nice lie.

Lewis Howes 10:28 Uh-huh.

Evy Poumpouras 10:28 Right? But it's still, it's still a lie. So we, we do that from time to time to, due to spare people's feelings-

Lewis Howes 10:33 Mm-hmm

Evy Poumpouras 10:34 ... uh, for depr- so many different reasons. Now, as far as trying to detect deception, right? How do you know somebody's deceiving you? Again, it goes back to behavior. Wanna look at the behavior. So I'm going to pay attention to that person, to what their normal, normal baseline is. So when I sit and I sit across from you, I'm going to look at you. How do you sit, your posture, your demeanor? So I'm gonna use you as my, my example. The, the predominant interview, you sit back, you're relaxed.

Lewis Howes 11:02 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 11:02 You're like this. Let's say I ask you a question

Evy Poumpouras 11:06 about something you're uncomfortable with.

Lewis Howes 11:07 I shift, or I'm like...

Evy Poumpouras 11:09 So let's say I say to you, "Hey, how are you and your wife doing?" And let's say you had a big blowout this morning, right?

Lewis Howes 11:14 [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 11:14 And you do something as simple as, "Oh." That's pause for me to say, "Why did he just do that?"

Lewis Howes 11:22 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 11:22 We've talked about all these different things to include serial killers, and the whole time Lewis is sitting back like this. This is his posture. The moment I ask him about his wife. So when you see these behaviors, the, the goal is to be curious. No two people weigh, no two people lie the same. So there's stuff out there that's like if they scratch their nose, if they wiggle their toe.

Lewis Howes 11:47 Right.

Evy Poumpouras 11:47 All that stuff is nonsense-

Lewis Howes 11:48 Right

Evy Poumpouras 11:48 ... because we're so diverse and so complex as individuals, we're all going to do different things. And so I just sit, and you can do this within a minute. You st- speak to a person. That's why you shut up, you sit back, you ask questions, you let people talk. I get a good feel of you, a reading on you, and then I watch what you do with your body. I watch the shifts Well, I, I watch what happens, your mannerisms. Now, you brought up eye contact. Here's the thing with eye contact. Eye contact does not mean ... I can lock eyes with you and still lie. Everybody can do it.

Lewis Howes 12:22 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 12:22 They may feel bad, but we all, we all know intuitively we should look at people, and especially if we're gonna lie, we do-

Lewis Howes 12:29 Even more

Evy Poumpouras 12:29 ... "No, I'm absolutely not."

Lewis Howes 12:31 "I was not..." Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 12:31 "I was not there." So you can't really rely on that.

Lewis Howes 12:34 So eye contact is not the best cue.

Evy Poumpouras 12:36 Not for everybody.

Lewis Howes 12:37 Uh-huh.

Evy Poumpouras 12:37 It could be good for some people. Now, for my daughter, she's, she's what? 18 months we said, right? When she does something bad and I try to make eye contact with her, I'm like, "Did you take this?" 'Cause now she's starting to understand. Do you know what this kid does? Like, she won't look at me. I'm like, and I'll turn her, and she's like.

Lewis Howes 12:53 Really?

Evy Poumpouras 12:54 'Cause she doesn't wanna make eye contact with me.

Lewis Howes 12:56 'Cause she doesn't wanna lie.

Evy Poumpouras 12:57 She knows she did something wrong.

Lewis Howes 12:58 [laughs] She's shameful. Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 12:59 She's shameful, but she's also being deceptive.

Lewis Howes 13:01 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 13:02 She's like, "I'm being interrogated. This lady's grilling me. I'm giving up nothing." But that's her thing. She won't look at me. So everyone's got their tell.

Lewis Howes 13:09 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 13:10 So I will tell you this, leave people alone. So if somebody isn't looking at you, parents, if you're a kid or someone's not looking at you, it... Don't teach your kids, "Look at me when I talk to you. Look at me." You can use that, but if you know someone's lying to you, don't do that. Because if somebody breaks eye contact when they lie to you, it means their tell is, you've noticed, that they break eye contact when they lie to me. So why would you introduce like, "Hey, look at me. Look at me when I'm talking to you"? Maybe when they're breaking eye contact, that's their tell. So I know how to read my daughter now. When she feels bad, she's done something wrong, she breaks eye contact.

Lewis Howes 13:46 She, she doesn't look at you.

Evy Poumpouras 13:48 No. I'm not gonna teach her to be a better liar. "Look at me. You know it's bad to tell mommy lies, right? Look at mommy when she's talking to you." I'm teaching her how to be a better liar. Those are little things. Or-

Lewis Howes 13:59 Why? 'Cause if she looked at you and lied-

Evy Poumpouras 14:00 Because I'm teaching her, "Look at me when you lie."

Lewis Howes 14:03 Oh, interesting.

Evy Poumpouras 14:04 "Look at mommy when you lie."

Lewis Howes 14:06 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 14:06 But if I know her tell is she breaks eye contact when she's gonna do something bad or tell a lie, why would I do that? Leave people alone. And not just with a child, I just think in general with people. Will you ever speak to someone and you're having a really serious conversation, they start laughing at you or they're smiling. And you say, "What? I... Don't laugh. This isn't funny. I'm talking to you. This is a serious conversation." They don't know they're doing that.

Lewis Howes 14:28 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 14:29 They're laughing 'cause they're stressed out.

Lewis Howes 14:31 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 14:31 The body leaks information. Remember I said look at the behavior? So when the body feels stress and when we're lying or in a certain situations, our body wants to leak out that stress.

Lewis Howes 14:41 Yes.

Evy Poumpouras 14:41 And we don't know how to do it.

Lewis Howes 14:42 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 14:43 And the, everybody's body does it differently, so some people will, will laugh when they're stressed out.

Lewis Howes 14:49 Yeah. I-

Evy Poumpouras 14:49 They'll smile

Lewis Howes 14:50 ... I do that sometimes.

Evy Poumpouras 14:51 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 14:51 I'm like, or when something's really bad, I'm like, I, I kind of giggle and I'm like, but I also say, "Man, that's really messed up." [laughs] But I'm just kind of laughing 'cause I'm like, "Man, that is so messed up." And I'm like, "I'm sorry if I'm laughing, but it's just, it's so messed up."

Evy Poumpouras 15:04 It's your stress reliever.

Lewis Howes 15:05 Yeah, yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 15:06 So your body releases stress through here.

Lewis Howes 15:08 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 15:08 It's just what you do. Now, your wife, if she's listening, she shouldn't say, "Hey, Lewis, don't laugh when I'm talking to you."

Lewis Howes 15:14 Right.

Evy Poumpouras 15:14 She should be quiet, read you, and understand this is what he does when he's stressed out.

Lewis Howes 15:19 [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 15:19 So if he's talking to me about something, I should be more curious, and what I should do is not call you out on it. I should come up from behind and ask more follow-up questions.

Lewis Howes 15:30 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 15:30 "Tell me about that."

Lewis Howes 15:31 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 15:32 "What happened again? Tell me a little bit more." And this is how you get people to reveal the truth to you. And there are other indicators. There's so many, but what I will say is look at people. Or I'll give you another example. I talk with my hands a lot. I'm Greek, I can't help it. I'm also New York, so it makes it even worse.

Lewis Howes 15:50 [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 15:51 But if I'm speaking to you and I'm like, "Lewis, you know what happened yesterday? I went out with my friends and we went out and we had dinner. It was great," and I'm talking to you like this. Then you say to me, "Hey, Evie, what else are you working on? Are you working with those people anymore?" And all of a sudden my hands do this. All you gotta do in that moment is say, "Why did she just do that?"

Lewis Howes 16:11 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 16:11 Evie the whole time has been talking to me with her hands. The minute I ask her this question about working with this specific group of people, Evie's hands went away. Why?

Lewis Howes 16:21 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 16:21 So what you would do-

Lewis Howes 16:22 Just do follow-up questions, right?

Evy Poumpouras 16:23 Is like, "Yeah. Oh, tell me about that."

Lewis Howes 16:25 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 16:25 "What happened there? Oh, that's interesting. Do you talk to them more? Are you guys friends?"

Lewis Howes 16:30 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 16:30 "Oh, okay. Well, you know, I worked with them on this. What do you think?" And you get people to open up. And now I start to share more with you about what's going on.

Lewis Howes 16:38 Yes.

Evy Poumpouras 16:39 That's the whole point of this. It's not like, "Hey, you just did this. Aha, I got you." 'Cause that doesn't h- help me.

Lewis Howes 16:44 You scratched your head, you scratched your nose, you covered your face.

Evy Poumpouras 16:47 Oh.

Lewis Howes 16:47 Yeah, yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 16:48 Some people, right before they're about to lie to you, some people may do this. They may put their hands in front of their mouth. So it's almost like because-

Lewis Howes 16:55 To kind of block it or to kind of-

Evy Poumpouras 16:56 Yeah

Lewis Howes 16:56 ... protect themselves.

Evy Poumpouras 16:57 Because this is a delivery mechanism of how we speak, right? This is where the lie is coming out of my mouth. Or if I'm talking to you about something I don't wanna speak about or I'm comfortable with, let's say the whole time we're like this, you ask me something I don't wanna talk about. Let's say you ask me about my husband. We're fine. Sorry, babe.

Lewis Howes 17:15 Right. [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 17:16 We're good. But we had a fight, I don't wanna talk about it, and you ask me about him, and I do this. "Well, he, uh, he's all right."

Lewis Howes 17:21 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 17:22 If I haven't done it before, all you would do in that moment is, "Why did she just do that?" Or maybe you don't wanna follow up, but you pay attention.

Lewis Howes 17:29 Take note of it, yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 17:31 That's how the body works. And look, the majority of what you communicate to the world is equally, it's important to know that this tool is how you engage people. And so most of what people read on you is this. So you wanna learn how to use this. We kind of throw it away, and we sit and we memorize talking points, and we memorize what we're gonna say, but what we don't realize, that's, that's the least influential thing when it comes to communication. The most influential thing of what we actually communicate, it's the body. It's like 55% is the body-

Lewis Howes 18:03 Mm

Evy Poumpouras 18:03 ... the research says. 38% is paralinguistics. It's this, my tone, my pitch, my voice, my cadence, my pauses, how I, how I, how I speak. "Hi, I'm Evie." "Hi, I'm Evie." "What did I do last night?" "What did I do last night?" So that's paralinguistics. That's actually 38%. And 7% are the actual words that come out of our mouth.

Lewis Howes 18:30 Interesting.

Evy Poumpouras 18:30 In fact, 49% of what we say, people d- people don't remember. So we sit and we memorize talking points, we memorize, like, our bullet points when we do pitches, when we do, "I need to say this, I need to say this, I need to say this." And that's just such a small minute of what they're actually hearing. When what they hear is your body and your voice, how you deliver the information.

Lewis Howes 18:56 Wow. So people remember or, and hear 55% of your body language, paralinguistics is 38%, the tone of your voice, right? And then the actual words is 7%. Is that correct?

Evy Poumpouras 19:10 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 19:10 That is fascinating.

Evy Poumpouras 19:11 It's about-

Lewis Howes 19:11 And it's kind of like... Gosh, who was the quote? Uh, Maya Angelou,

Lewis Howes 19:16 I think she said, "People won't remember how, what you said, but the, but sh- they'll remember the way you made them feel." Right?

Evy Poumpouras 19:22 Yes.

Lewis Howes 19:22 And it's, you know, I don't remember... I have a mentor of mine that 30 years ago I heard him give a speech on stage at a school, and he's still a mentor and a friend of mine today. And I don't remember the speech, but I remember the way he made me feel, and I remember, like, maybe a couple of, like, um, you know, analogies or something that, like, stood out. But I don't remember the 30-minute or 60-minute talk. But I remember the energy from the combination of all these different things, right? From the body language, from the tone, from all these different things. But I don't remember the words. But I remember the way it made me feel through his expression. And it sounds like the body is majority of the expression, then the tone adds to it, then the words.

Evy Poumpouras 20:06 Yes.

Lewis Howes 20:06 So you could actually say nothing but have a huge impact on people with body language and tone alone.

Evy Poumpouras 20:12 Yes. That's the majority-

Lewis Howes 20:12 [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 20:13 ... of what people receive when you speak to them. But what we do is we memorize these talking points-

Lewis Howes 20:18 Mm

Evy Poumpouras 20:18 ... and we think, "I have to say all these things." The other thing is too, you don't have to say all of it. Give them your greatest hits. We think more is good. No, more is just more. And then people just start to... You lose them. Give them, give them the highlights. Give them the highlight reel. Then later you'll give them more.

Lewis Howes 20:34 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 20:35 If you need to. But even, like, when I do the news, I'm gonna talk about, as I said earlier, this... On NBC, we're gonna do why there's so many... The, the question is, Evy, why are there so many school shootings on campuses right now? Or so much violence, excuse me, violence on campuses. I could come up with, like, 10 talking points as to why, but I can't.

Lewis Howes 20:53 But here's three.

Evy Poumpouras 20:54 Here's three. Here's the, my top... Here's, here are my greatest hits. Because the segments are three minutes, because people lose attention. We're trying to keep people's attention span, which is even harder today than it's ever been. And so that's why you have to bring all of you into it to connect. Even with Zooms. You ever watch a, you ever watch a Zoom or you've been on Zoom, everyone looks like they're falling asleep-

Lewis Howes 21:15 Yeah

Evy Poumpouras 21:15 ... or like they're dead?

Lewis Howes 21:15 [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 21:17 Because they're not... In real life, they don't look that off. But actually, the camera takes a lot of energy away.

Lewis Howes 21:23 Interesting.

Evy Poumpouras 21:25 I learned that too when I began doing the news. You're like, when you're on air to, like, give more, because otherwise you fall flat or they tune out.

Lewis Howes 21:31 More energy.

Evy Poumpouras 21:33 Yes.

Lewis Howes 21:33 More expression, yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 21:34 So you wanna feel, you wanna make people feel connected to you.

Lewis Howes 21:39 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 21:40 People remember how you make them feel. They won't remember anything you say, but they'll remember, "I like Lewis. I like being around him. I felt good when I was with Lewis. In fact, I felt so good I trusted Lewis." And when people trust you, Lewis, you know what happens to their body? The body releases oxytocin.

Lewis Howes 21:58 Wow.

Evy Poumpouras 21:58 And oxytocin does what?

Evy Poumpouras 22:00 It's the hormone that makes us feel good, it makes us feel bonds, it helps us build relationship bonds with people. So I feel good around Lewis. I trust Lewis. That feeling is oxytocin in my body biologically increasing. That goes up. I f- have that oxytocin increase, then I feel even better around you and I give you more trust. Then my oxytocin goes up even more, and on the cycle goes.

Lewis Howes 22:25 Wow.

Evy Poumpouras 22:26 That's why it's how we make people feel.

Lewis Howes 22:29 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 22:29 Now, it's not about making people like us. That's a whole other avenue, and that's should not be your goal. But it's about creating an environment in which people feel like they want to be around you.

Lewis Howes 22:44 That's interesting. I mean, you've... I've heard this I don't know how many times when I got into the business world that, you know, the, the phrase is people do business with those they know, like, and trust, right?

Evy Poumpouras 22:55 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 22:55 Know, like, and trust is kind of the phrase in business. And I think it's like get into relationships with people they know, like, and trust, all these different things. So if you're at a networking event or a business conference or some type of meet and greet and you're meeting someone for the first time that you would like to potentially work with in the future, do business with, be in some type of a relationship with, what would you say are a few things that someone can do in the first five minutes of meeting someone to create an environment of know, like, and trust in those first few minutes?

Evy Poumpouras 23:28 Okay. None of that.

Lewis Howes 23:29 [laughs] Okay.

Evy Poumpouras 23:30 None of that. Here's the problem with that. I'm-

Lewis Howes 23:32 It's like a strategy, right?

Evy Poumpouras 23:34 Be- it's a strategy, a technique.

Lewis Howes 23:35 Uh-huh.

Evy Poumpouras 23:36 And do you like it when people use techniques on you?

Lewis Howes 23:37 No, absolutely not.

Evy Poumpouras 23:38 No. Do you like it when people use tricks on you?

Lewis Howes 23:40 No.

Evy Poumpouras 23:40 So why would you do that to somebody else? And you want to build a genuine connection with them.

Lewis Howes 23:45 100%. Well, how should someone build a genuine connection?

Evy Poumpouras 23:47 Okay. One, you're gonna get rid of that.

Lewis Howes 23:48 Uh-huh.

Evy Poumpouras 23:48 And especially this whole like thing. Because I'm not focused on you, I'm focused on getting you to like me.

Lewis Howes 23:54 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 23:54 What's my mission? My goal is to build a relationship with you. So how can I do that? How about I'm respectful?

Lewis Howes 24:02 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 24:03 How about I'm professional? How about I'm warm, I'm approachable, I'm welcoming, I have empathy? How about I give you that and then organically, Lewis, you will like me? Instead of me being like, "I need Lewis to like me."

Lewis Howes 24:19 Yes.

Evy Poumpouras 24:19 Because now I'm going down the crazy train-

Lewis Howes 24:21 Yeah, yeah

Evy Poumpouras 24:21 ... of I, I need to get him to like me, I need to get him to like me.

Lewis Howes 24:24 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 24:24 And that's a massive distractive, distraction.

Lewis Howes 24:27 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 24:27 And you're n- you're trying to manipulate someone to get them to like you.

Lewis Howes 24:30 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 24:30 And here's the thing. You can do all the things right and people may still not like you.

Lewis Howes 24:34 They're like, "Yeah, something's off there." Yeah, yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 24:36 You have to be okay with that

Lewis Howes 24:38 Yes

Evy Poumpouras 24:38 I'm not for everyone, and that's okay

Lewis Howes 24:41 And I think it goes back to your earlier point of identity versus instrumental, and if we're going into a relationship thinking of, "What can I get out of this?"

Evy Poumpouras 24:49 Yes. What can I do

Evy Poumpouras 24:51 to make you like me? What... where am I?

Lewis Howes 24:52 Yeah

Evy Poumpouras 24:53 I'm identity.

Lewis Howes 24:54 Yes.

Evy Poumpouras 24:54 Me, me, me. I just care about me.

Lewis Howes 24:56 Yes.

Evy Poumpouras 24:56 I care about how I feel, and I need to feel that you like me, rather than I just met this man, he seems like he's got his head on right.

Lewis Howes 25:03 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 25:04 He's someone I'd like to do business with, with how about I shut up-

Lewis Howes 25:08 Uh-huh. [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 25:08 ... I listen, I build a genuine connection, I ask him about himself.

Lewis Howes 25:12 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 25:13 I show him respect, I'm professional, I'm warm. Especially in professional set- settings.

Lewis Howes 25:18 Yes

Evy Poumpouras 25:18 Because sometimes, too, in business, and this happens a lot, uh, when I have companies come to me for consultations or different things, they'll say to me, "Where do we go wrong?" I'm like, "Because you try to make people your friends." And then, or your, your employees. Bosses will try to have their employees as their friends, and then when they try to be the boss again, the employee gets upset like, "I can't believe you said that to me," because you're blurring the lines. When you are overly nice, overly kind, and overly polite, that blows up in your face.

Lewis Howes 25:47 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 25:48 That's how you get rolled.

Lewis Howes 25:49 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 25:49 I'm not telling you not to be warm, kind, polite to people, but when you make that your focal point because you want everybody to like you, it never works.

Lewis Howes 26:00 Instead of g- wanting everyone to like you, what should people be thinking?

Evy Poumpouras 26:04 How about you just build a genuine connection with somebody? How about you show genuine interest in them?

Lewis Howes 26:09 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 26:09 How about you show them that you're open to them, that you're non-judgmental? That's another thing. Non-judgmental. Not passing judgment. And today, everybody's quick to tell everybody how messed up they are. We've got this big, I, we, this group think mentality, I'm in... People like to be in groups or fe- p- feel part of something. It's an- another identity thing. I'm on this side and you're on that side. How about nobody needs to know what side you're on?

Lewis Howes 26:34 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 26:35 And if somebody expresses something that you don't agree with, so what? You can accept a person and not agree with what they say. So going back to earlier on, we, I told you my 9/11 story, right? After that, I began doing interviews and interrogations on terrorists, or terrorist sympathizers, or people who believed in that, or thought 9/11 was a good thing. When I did those interviews, nobody in that room that I interviewed was the wiser as to whether I had been exposed to 9/11.

Lewis Howes 27:01 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 27:02 Why? My goal doing that interview was to get intelligence.

Lewis Howes 27:07 Right

Evy Poumpouras 27:07 To get information. My mission was what do I need to know about another possible attack? That was my goal. My goal was not to come in and be like, "Do you know what you did?"

Lewis Howes 27:16 Right.

Evy Poumpouras 27:16 "Do you know what your people did?" So I could sit there-

Lewis Howes 27:19 So you're being non-judgmental when you're interrogating, yeah

Evy Poumpouras 27:21 ... because it's not about me, because that wasn't an identity.

Lewis Howes 27:25 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 27:25 I wanted to know the person across from me. I, I wanted to be curious, and sometimes they would say things that I thought had some kind of like, I get your point.

Lewis Howes 27:32 Yes.

Evy Poumpouras 27:33 I get why you're saying this.

Evy Poumpouras 27:34 I get why you feel this. I can empathize. Sympathy and empathy, not the same thing.

Lewis Howes 27:39 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 27:40 I can hear you. But that made me a better interviewer and a better connector with people. There's this other study they did. Can you tell I like studies? [laughs]

Lewis Howes 27:49 Yeah, yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 27:49 There was a study they did, and I believe it was out of Sweden. And what they did is they took a population of violent, uh, offenders who had been convicted. So we have these convicted offenders of violent crimes. And they asked them, "How did you feel about the person who interviewed you?"

Lewis Howes 28:05 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 28:05 One group said, "I didn't like the person. They were cold. They were judgmental. I didn't like the way they made me feel. He was a jerk." That was that one group. The other group said, "I liked the person. They were warm. They weren't judgmental. They listened to me. I, I liked who w- they were." Then they looked at who gave confessions. The group that said, "I liked the person that spoke to me. I felt connected to them. They weren't judgmental," they gave confessions or admissions. And the group that said they didn't like the person gave nothing. Zero.

Lewis Howes 28:38 Wow.

Evy Poumpouras 28:40 So you can sit across from someone and be respectful, be professional, have compassion, have empathy.

Lewis Howes 28:49 And not agree with them. Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 28:51 Why?

Lewis Howes 28:52 Right.

Evy Poumpouras 28:52 Because now you make it about you. So you have to be very clear, where am I going? Where am I driving to? What path am I going on? And if you're cr- when you challenge people, everybody who has an identity, or you challenge people at every point that they don't agree with you, you're going to hit obstacle after obstacle.

Lewis Howes 29:11 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 29:11 And also, you're going to make it harder for yourself to get there. And also, quite honestly, like who cares? I-

Lewis Howes 29:18 Right

Evy Poumpouras 29:18 ... I'm very clear about if I want to argue something, I'm like, do I want to put my cognitive and emotional energy into this? No. I, I'm very aware. You know, you, we, we talked about boundaries earlier off camera. My boundaries are more for me than anybody else.

Lewis Howes 29:36 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 29:37 And my boundary is I decide very carefully who I'm going to debate something with. People, politics, I hear about politics all the time.

Lewis Howes 29:46 Yeah. [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 29:46 Because I worked in the White House, and I protected almost all of them. And most of what people say is wrong. I never correct them. I'm like, "Yeah, yeah. Okay. No kidding, really?"

Lewis Howes 29:58 So you don't say, "Well, this is my opinion and I don't believe with that," or?

Evy Poumpouras 30:00 No. I'm busy.

Lewis Howes 30:02 Yeah. [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 30:02 I have things going on. I don't have time. I'm not gonna put that emotional energy into it.

Lewis Howes 30:07 Interesting

Evy Poumpouras 30:07 Because-

Lewis Howes 30:07 So if they get really defensive and like, "I really believe in this thing," and you're like, in your mind you're like-

Evy Poumpouras 30:11 Okay

Lewis Howes 30:12 ... "Man, that doesn't make sense to me." But how do you respond to someone like that?

Evy Poumpouras 30:16 80/20. That's really interesting.

Lewis Howes 30:18 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 30:18 Wow. Okay.

Lewis Howes 30:20 That's it.

Evy Poumpouras 30:21 Yes. I g-

Lewis Howes 30:21 If they're like, "What do you think? Do you agree with me?"

Evy Poumpouras 30:23 "Uh, you know, I really don't. I don't, I'm neutral. I'm Switzerland."

Lewis Howes 30:27 [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 30:27 "I never really get involved in that stuff."

Lewis Howes 30:30 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 30:30 I get it.

Lewis Howes 30:30 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 30:31 But most people don't want to know what I think.

Lewis Howes 30:32 Oh, it's-

Evy Poumpouras 30:33 Most people want to tell me

Evy Poumpouras 30:34 what they think.

Lewis Howes 30:34 Interesting.

Evy Poumpouras 30:35 So I let them.

Lewis Howes 30:35 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 30:36 Because you have to think about also your emotional energy and your cognitive energy. We, again, it's another narrative that everyone's I'm going to tell you my boundary

Lewis Howes 30:45 Mm-hmm

Evy Poumpouras 30:45 ... and I'm going to tell you my boundary.

Lewis Howes 30:47 Wow.

Evy Poumpouras 30:47 How about I'm the gatekeeper of my boundary-

Lewis Howes 30:50 Wow

Evy Poumpouras 30:50 ... and I decide who I'm going to emotionally invest in?

Lewis Howes 30:53 So how do we set boundaries that actually work then?

Evy Poumpouras 30:58 I have to put those boundaries in place.

Lewis Howes 31:00 Do we communicate those boundaries, or is it more of like I'm just going to know my boundaries and react based on that?

Evy Poumpouras 31:06 Behavior, I control my behavior.

Lewis Howes 31:08 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 31:08 I don't sit there and tell everybody, "Let me tell you my boundaries." One, nobody cares.

Lewis Howes 31:13 Right.

Evy Poumpouras 31:14 Like i- um, my identity. You need to know how I feel. You need to know how I think. You need to respect me, like...

Lewis Howes 31:23 So it's more your behavior. You just won't engage with people if...

Evy Poumpouras 31:27 I don't invite it in.

Lewis Howes 31:29 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 31:29 It depends what you want because sometimes you have to work with people, and so you want to create good boundaries. This... I'll give you this example. So when I was in my service, my previous job, it was 98% male, right? So there was always a, a, like kinda a thing where I wanted to be part of the group

Lewis Howes 31:51 Mm-hmm

Evy Poumpouras 31:52 ... because I did, but I also understood I needed to be mindful and careful because I didn't want boundaries being crossed. So how do you do that? I did certain things. I... When they'd go out drinking, like 'cause we would travel a lot and we... I wouldn't go. If, um, it would... If they'd go out as a group, I would be like, "Are we going to eat, or are we going to go hang out? If we're going to go hang out-"

Lewis Howes 32:15 To the bars or something, yeah

Evy Poumpouras 32:16 ... "I'm not going." I wouldn't go. Although maybe I wanted to go, I understood I had to navigate those boundaries because the moment I did that-

Lewis Howes 32:23 Mm

Evy Poumpouras 32:23 ... something could get lost there, and I knew this was a population of people I wanted to work with, and I wanted to have respect, so I needed to manage that well. So you have to find those boundaries, but you, you show people your boundaries. I show you where I begin and where I end. I show you what I'm willing to take and what I'm not willing to take.

Lewis Howes 32:42 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 32:43 I got this piece of advice. Well, somebody shared this with me, John Frenchi. I can give him a shout-out, former CIA chief of station, massively smart guy. I was interviewing him, and we were talking, and he said... And he was a manager of a lot of people, and he said, "I'll tell you what." He's like, "It's easier from the get-go to have good boundaries with people, and then you can kind of diminish them rather than try to be everybody's friend and then put in those boundaries."

Lewis Howes 33:10 Interesting. Yeah, that's true.

Evy Poumpouras 33:12 He's like, "You... First you put the boundaries in, and then you build the warmth."

Lewis Howes 33:16 That's smart.

Evy Poumpouras 33:16 And he's like, "They're not my friends because the minute I treat them like my friends, now I'm going to have a hard time telling them what to do because I'm their boss."

Lewis Howes 33:25 Mm, interesting.

Evy Poumpouras 33:27 And then people are confused. "But you were at the bar with

Evy Poumpouras 33:29 me having a beer the other night, and now you're telling me what to do? You're telling me my assignment's going to be midnight shift for a week and... 'Cause I could stand, like, staring at a wall. Like, I... Why would you do that? We just had beers. I thought you were my friend."

Lewis Howes 33:44 So start with boundaries first, and then, and then extend them the more you get in a relationship with someone.

Evy Poumpouras 33:50 Just keep those boundaries-

Lewis Howes 33:51 Yeah

Evy Poumpouras 33:51 ... and create warmth. It, it, it, it... The research actually comes from Susan Fiske and Chris Malone. They did a research study on high achievers, people that are very successful, and they were trying to find out, well, what characteristic these high achievers and successful people have, and warmth was one of them, being warm.

Lewis Howes 34:14 Hmm. Wow. That's interesting.

Evy Poumpouras 34:15 Not being liked-

Lewis Howes 34:17 Warm

Evy Poumpouras 34:18 ... but just showing I'm open, I'm approachable, I'm accessible, you can talk to me.

Lewis Howes 34:24 But it seems like a lot of people want respect in life, whether it be in the workplace or in relationships, with friends or family. They want respect. But I've heard you talk about, you know, we should stop chasing respect, and we should start prioritizing something else. Why do you think we shouldn't be chasing respect?

Evy Poumpouras 34:40 Because I'm chasing respect, and I'm not ch- what's my goal in this interaction? Is my goal to make you respect me, or is my goal to have a good interview with you?

Lewis Howes 34:49 Hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 34:50 Show y- I'll show you respect. I'll show you compassion. I'll show you listening. I'll show you I'll give you my all for this interview, and that's my focus. And with that, I hope I get respect, so I'm here three times. So I'm, I'm thinking I'm doing okay. But if my goal is I need to make Lewis respect me, now I'm distracted from what I'm trying to do.

Lewis Howes 35:08 Hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 35:09 I'm focused on you and trying to get into your head. And maybe, Lewis, I do all these things. Are you guaranteed respect?

Lewis Howes 35:15 No.

Evy Poumpouras 35:16 No. So now I'm distracted, and I'm focused on making you respect me. Respect is wonderful. It's a great thing to have, but you're not always going to get it. And being okay that when you go- don't get it, if you can check those boxes off in your head: I did this, I did this, I did this, I did this. And then at that point you're like, "It's not me."

Lewis Howes 35:35 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 35:36 But you're going to sit and try to figure out what's going on in everybody's mind to figure out what's happening up here.

Lewis Howes 35:43 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 35:44 And then getting your... getting up- emotionally upset because this person doesn't respect you. Now, if it's a, it's a serious relationship, one that's an intimate relationship or even a supervisor, then you have to ask yourself... You have to be honest and be like, "This isn't working. I'm trying to make somebody be something, and how narcissistic is it of me to think I'm going to make you be a certain way towards me?" You're your own governor, and I think I'm going to pull those puppet strings and get you to... Right?

Lewis Howes 36:16 Right.

Evy Poumpouras 36:16 Then at that point you take power back and say, "Okay, I'm in an environment where I don't want to be here anymore. I'm not

Evy Poumpouras 36:22 happy with this person. They're not changing, clearly. What do I do?"

Lewis Howes 36:26 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 36:26 And now it's like maybe I need to put my resume out there. I get... I take power back and change the narrative of my story instead of saying, "I'm screwed. I'm working for this person. It will never change."

Lewis Howes 36:37 Mm-hmm. You have self-respect by leaving the situation or the environment and creating a boundary, I guess, by your behavior and your actions.

Evy Poumpouras 36:46 Yeah. Well, and I'm also going back to being Problem-solving

Lewis Howes 36:49 Mm-hmm

Evy Poumpouras 36:50 I'm look- I'm, I'm-

Lewis Howes 36:50 Instrumental versus-

Evy Poumpouras 36:51 Yes. I'm going into that solution mindset.

Lewis Howes 36:53 Uh-huh.

Evy Poumpouras 36:54 Okay, what am I dealing with here? I have this, and I have this, I have this. I've exhausted everything I can with this person. Nothing is changing. It is not healthy for me.

Lewis Howes 37:02 Yes.

Evy Poumpouras 37:03 Right? So if I've done all these things, I'm competent at my job, I show up on time, I do what I say I'm gonna do, I'm a follow through, I'm warm, I'm approachable, I'm respectful, I'm professional. If I am doing all these things and it is still not giving me-

Lewis Howes 37:16 Uh-huh

Evy Poumpouras 37:16 ... respect, then now I have to make choices to change that instead of being at the mercy of this other person's chaos or whatever else. God only knows what's going on up there.

Lewis Howes 37:28 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 37:29 If you find yourself saying, "I would never do that," hit the brakes.

Lewis Howes 37:33 Uh-huh.

Evy Poumpouras 37:33 You're not thinking right 'cause it's not about what you would never do. I'd never do this. I'd never do that. That's where we go wrong because we're not seeing clearly. We're, we're identity. I'm seeing the world through me and my lens of how I would move. Rather, I want to see the world through their lens, and you have to think of the, the long-term exposure of somebody's life and how it's made them who they are, where they were born-

Lewis Howes 37:59 Mm-hmm

Evy Poumpouras 38:00 ... their parents, how they were raised. Do they even have parents? One parent, two parents, no parents? Uh, they're... The, the city or country they were raised in. Do they go to school or not go to school?

Lewis Howes 38:11 Right. Relationships they've been through.

Evy Poumpouras 38:12 The socioeconomic background, their dramas, their traumas, their experiences, all these long-term things make them who they are. Now I'm gonna come in, Evy, and I'm gonna whip you up to be what I want you to be-

Lewis Howes 38:25 Yeah

Evy Poumpouras 38:25 ... in what? Couple hours, days-

Lewis Howes 38:28 Right

Evy Poumpouras 38:28 ... weeks?

Lewis Howes 38:28 [laughs] Right. If you don't like it, leave. Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 38:31 Just give yourself... Get into a solution mindset rather than-

Lewis Howes 38:34 Mm-hmm

Evy Poumpouras 38:35 ... dwelling on the problem of my boss sucks-

Lewis Howes 38:37 Yeah, yeah

Evy Poumpouras 38:37 ... my boss is a bully, to saying, "Okay, this is what I have. Where's the solution?"

Lewis Howes 38:44 Yeah. Can I make it work here? Can I have a conversation with someone? Can I set myself up for success? Can I communicate my wants or needs?

Evy Poumpouras 38:52 Yes.

Lewis Howes 38:52 And if I'm not getting what those things are by consciously communicating, then maybe this isn't for me.

Evy Poumpouras 38:58 Here's the other thing with respect. The, the issue with it, and you brought up self-respect, self-respect matters more.

Lewis Howes 39:04 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 39:05 Because sometimes people around you may not respect you, and they might be wrong because sometimes the masses get it wrong.

Lewis Howes 39:12 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 39:13 And people follow. It's a herd mentality. People bully

Evy Poumpouras 39:16 and gang up on people left and right. You see it on social all the time or with celebrities. Every week somebody's getting, like, their reputation just slandered, and it's bullying, and everybody jumps on it, and sometimes it's just not... Sometimes it's just cruel.

Lewis Howes 39:30 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 39:30 There's one celeb, they're doing it now, and I'm just like, "Leave the woman alone."

Lewis Howes 39:33 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 39:34 So I think, but if I'm chasing everybody else's respect, that means if you respect me, then, only then am I valid.

Lewis Howes 39:43 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 39:44 It's an external driver. An external driver is it's when I want the outside worl- world to validate me, but I have to be steady enough to where maybe the- sometimes the outside world won't validate me, and I have to be steady enough-

Lewis Howes 39:59 Mm

Evy Poumpouras 39:59 ... to understand that it comes from inside.

Lewis Howes 40:00 Right. I wanted to ask you about something coming from inside, which is around vulnerability. When I grew up as a young boy growing into my teens and college years, I never felt like I could be vulnerable. It was just I didn't feel like I could be because I would get made fun of or picked on or bullied or laughed at if I showed weakness. Vulnerability meant weakness when I was growing up. Over the last five, seven years, um, we're seeing people talk about how vulnerability is a strength and could be powerful and a strength in relatability, connecting with others, allowing others to, uh, understand you a little bit better. But it also seems like there's a swing of vulnerability, which is, like, extreme vulnerability, which is, like, oversharing all the time as opposed to a conscious vulnerability, you know, at the right timing and setting and things like that. Where do you feel like we are with vulnerability today, and is vulnerability a strength or a weakness in society today?

Evy Poumpouras 41:04 Well, if you're using it as a technique to get people to like you, then there's a problem-

Lewis Howes 41:09 Yes

Evy Poumpouras 41:10 ... because it's not genuine.

Lewis Howes 41:11 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 41:12 Let's use this example. Your dad passed away, yes?

Lewis Howes 41:15 Yes.

Evy Poumpouras 41:15 Okay. My dad passed away.

Lewis Howes 41:16 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 41:17 So let's say I'll come h- come in here, and we actually had this conversation last time.

Lewis Howes 41:21 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 41:21 You may not remember, but I remember 'cause I knew your dad had passed. And I came in, I said, "Hey, Lewis. How are you? Good to see you. I'm really sorry about your father passing away." And you started talking about your dad, and you were telling me, you were expressing to me, "Yeah, you know, uh, it's, it... I'm, I'm, I'm working through it," whatever. Now let's say in that moment I'm like, "Hey, I'm gonna share my vulnerability with you, Lewis. You know what, Lewis? My dad passed away, too. He just passed," and blah, blah, blah. Now I just took your moment-

Lewis Howes 41:49 Mm-hmm

Evy Poumpouras 41:49 ... and brought it onto me because I'm thinking, "I'm gonna be vulnerable, too," rather than shutting up, listening, and letting you have your moment to talk about your father and whatever it is you want to share and really listening and building that genuine connection.

Lewis Howes 42:06 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 42:07 And then if it organically happens,

Evy Poumpouras 42:10 then I can say, "You know what? Yeah, my dad passed, too, so I can feel, like, your heartache. I'm truly sor- sorry." And if you invite further the conversation, I can tell you a little bit more about that. But if I start saying, "This is what happened. This is how he passed, how to cure that," if I do that, then, then I'm not honoring-

Lewis Howes 42:30 Mm-hmm

Evy Poumpouras 42:30 ... I'm making it about me. So all I'm saying is with the whole vulnerability thing, it's become a technique or strategy which makes the whole thing disingenuous. How about you just really connect with people-

Lewis Howes 42:42 Mm

Evy Poumpouras 42:43 ... and you listen? Don't just share to share 'cause now you're not doing it 'cause you really care. You're doing it 'cause you think, "I have to do this so that I can build this connection with Lewis and so we can..." And that's where we go wrong I don't know. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Lewis Howes 42:59 No, I think that makes sense to me. I think it's, uh ... When anything is used as a strategy, I think people can eventually feel it or sense it or smell it. At least I feel like I can. You know, and even it's like even sharing this interview might be like a little worrisome for me in some ways because I'm like, "Oh, are people gonna start just acting with respect and warmth and, you know, empathy and intens- you know, in these ways when they first meet me, and am I gonna feel like that's a strategy [laughs] you know, 'cause they're learning from this?" So you have to really make sure that it's from a, a, a genuine place.

Evy Poumpouras 43:31 But you said something. You feel it.

Lewis Howes 43:32 You feel it if it's off.

Evy Poumpouras 43:34 You feel it.

Lewis Howes 43:34 You feel it.

Evy Poumpouras 43:34 So your, your intuition or your instincts, like that's a legitimate thing.

Lewis Howes 43:38 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 43:38 You can call it whatever you want.

Lewis Howes 43:39 Yes.

Evy Poumpouras 43:39 You have to ... So you, you read people. It's interesting. Your subconscious or however you want to word it, you read people before you've had a chance to consciously read people.

Lewis Howes 43:49 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 43:50 You know you ever go to a room or a party or an event, right, and you'll meet someone. They didn't say anything to you. They didn't do anything to you, but you're like, "I don't like that dude."

Lewis Howes 43:58 Right.

Evy Poumpouras 43:58 "I don't like that guy. I don't know why. I just don't like him." You have to listen to that.

Lewis Howes 44:04 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 44:04 That is your, your ... you telling you, "Hey, Lewis just yellow on this one. Just proceed with caution."

Lewis Howes 44:11 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 44:12 You must listen to it 'cause it's picking up non-verbals, other things, other cues, and even other people's vibrations or energy. My friend Lisa Salvatore who is a spiritual intuitive, she always talks about every people's vibration and energy.

Lewis Howes 44:27 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 44:27 She's like you can feel it. Listen to that. I listen to it all the time, and I'm not a spiritual-

Lewis Howes 44:33 Sure

Evy Poumpouras 44:33 ... I'm a very instrumental-

Lewis Howes 44:34 Yeah

Evy Poumpouras 44:34 ... rational-thinking person. But at the same time, I feel people, and if it feels off, I'll either steer away from you, or if I have to work with you, I'll say, "Okay, I have to be around this person. I'm gonna be careful."

Lewis Howes 44:48 I'm gonna create my boundaries without them knowing it. I'm just gonna-

Evy Poumpouras 44:51 Yes

Lewis Howes 44:51 ... keep my distance.

Evy Poumpouras 44:52 Boundaries work when the other person doesn't know you're

Evy Poumpouras 44:55 doing it.

Lewis Howes 44:55 [laughs] It's for you.

Evy Poumpouras 44:56 Yes.

Lewis Howes 44:56 Yeah. How ... What is it you think that is in someone when we meet them at an event or someone's partner or whatever it might be that we feel like something is off inside of them? You know, maybe we didn't even hear them say anything. Maybe we did. But within the first few minutes, we just feel like something is off with that person. What do you think that is that is off about them? Is it their energetic vibration is out of alignment with, you know, moral code in society? Is it they have an intention you feel like they don't pay, they don't pay attention to people? They, they're looking around the room. They're, they're more interested in who the best person here is as opposed to who's in front of them. What is it that, that energy that is off that we're reading?

Evy Poumpouras 45:40 I think it's all those things.

Lewis Howes 45:41 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 45:42 The, the ... Here it is. It's the signal is something is off with this person. Boom. Right there.

Lewis Howes 45:47 That's it.

Evy Poumpouras 45:48 I got it.

Lewis Howes 45:48 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 45:49 Now it's you trying to figure out what it is if you want to sit and figure out what it is. Usually you can tell, and you just gave me examples-

Lewis Howes 45:56 Yes

Evy Poumpouras 45:56 ... because you felt it. You've met somebody, and you felt the energy's off. And maybe in the scenario they're ... You're thinking ... You're talking to them, and they're ... Clearly it's some like big agent event or something or big event, and they're, they're, they're sizing up the room to see who else they can talk to instead of really building a connection with you.

Lewis Howes 46:14 Uh-huh.

Evy Poumpouras 46:14 So you already know. Uh, most people, we don't trust ourselves, and this is where respect comes in and trust comes in. How about you trust yourself? We're so focused on the outside world. Trust comes within. So if it feels off, trust yourself.

Lewis Howes 46:29 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 46:29 That I feel off for a reason, and pay attention. They're gonna show you what it is.

Lewis Howes 46:33 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 46:35 They're gonna show you what it is. There's a, um, a saying, uh, from Greek mythology. It was from, uh, Odysseus. Uh-huh. And he said, "Don't listen to your opponent. Look at them."

Lewis Howes 46:45 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 46:45 "It will tell you everything." Just sit back and watch the behavior. I can't tell you how many people I come across, and not that they've done anything, but I'm like, "Mm. No."

Lewis Howes 46:56 [laughs] Really?

Evy Poumpouras 46:58 Sure.

Lewis Howes 46:58 Uh, um-

Evy Poumpouras 46:59 It doesn't mean they're bad.

Lewis Howes 47:00 Uh-huh.

Evy Poumpouras 47:00 It doesn't mean they're a narcissist. It doesn't mean they're so ... They're n- it means they're not for me, and it also means like, look, I'm trying to align myself to be a certain way. And you and I were speaking about that earlier, that you're trying to find people and environments to be in al-

Lewis Howes 47:15 Mm

Evy Poumpouras 47:15 ... alignment in where you're going.

Lewis Howes 47:17 Yes.

Evy Poumpouras 47:18 And I do the same thing. And so I try to feel is this person aligned with wherever I'm going because if they're not aligned with me and I'm trying to go this way, when I bring in that misaligned person, what are they gonna do?

Lewis Howes 47:32 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 47:32 And then I get pissed at them.

Lewis Howes 47:34 Right. Right. If you're meeting someone, you ... Every time-

Evy Poumpouras 47:39 Should I just come with you to these parties?

Lewis Howes 47:41 [laughs] Yeah. Tell me. What do you think? But you've always been, you know ...

Lewis Howes 47:45 Y- you've always been put together. Your body language, your physical appearance, what you're wearing, like you've always been put together when I've seen you. I'm not saying that's the way you are all the time, 24/7, but when you show up, I'm assuming when you were working in the Secret Service, you were showing up in a professional setting with the way you appeared. In what ways do you think our physical appearance impacts our ability to enroll people in our vision in life, in our, in what we want to create, in partnerships and opportunities, the way we physically healthy look or, or don't look, the clothes we're wearing, the makeup, the hair position, everything. How much does our physical package impact our ability to enroll people in our life and our vision?

Evy Poumpouras 48:33 It impacts a lot.

Lewis Howes 48:34 Really?

Evy Poumpouras 48:34 And a lot of people don't like it because it's like we want to know what's inside.

Lewis Howes 48:38 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 48:38 But when people don't know what's inside and all they have to judge you by is what they see on the outside, it's gonna create an impact and an impression.

Lewis Howes 48:45 Wow.

Evy Poumpouras 48:45 So I will tell you this unequivocally. It was drilled in us in the US Secret Service that our appearance mattered. So for example, watch next time you see the president. Every agent's wearing a dark suit. It was either there was an, uh, like a ... It was a rule. It wasn't like a It was an, uh, informal policy. Dark suits, dark gray, navy, black. You're not gonna see anybody in a-

Lewis Howes 49:05 You couldn't wear that, huh?

Evy Poumpouras 49:07 No, I could not.

Lewis Howes 49:08 Why couldn't you wear white?

Evy Poumpouras 49:10 Because it's what it's projecting.

Lewis Howes 49:12 What's white projecting?

Evy Poumpouras 49:12 This doesn't project lethality.

Lewis Howes 49:14 [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 49:15 [laughs] It doesn't.

Lewis Howes 49:16 That is like spiritual warmth, you know. Yeah. [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 49:17 This is like, "Hey, on Lewis Howes' podcast. I've got my mug."

Lewis Howes 49:21 Yeah, yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 49:21 "Let's talk about warmth here and connecting with people."

Lewis Howes 49:24 With the Hamptons hanging out. Yeah, yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 49:25 "Hey, I'm in LA."

Lewis Howes 49:26 [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 49:27 No. This, this doesn't project that. But if I wore my black suit, um, if I wore my dress shirt... Again, even the guys, um, you, you wouldn't see, you won't see... You'll see them either in a white shirt or a light blue shirt.

Lewis Howes 49:40 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 49:40 Because it's what that image projects. Dark colors project... Even just having your suit. Our su- our shoes had to be shined. Like, the boss will look at your feet, and he'd be like, "Go shine those things. Don't walk around like that." Because if I'm put together, then the bad guy who's looking to do something, he's gonna be like, "She looks put together. He looks put together. They all look put together. Maybe I should think twice about this."

Lewis Howes 50:03 Hmm. There might be consequences to my actions.

Evy Poumpouras 50:06 They look like they're put together. And if I look like I'm put together, people are less likely to want to cross you, challenge you. They also see you as competent-

Lewis Howes 50:15 Hmm

Evy Poumpouras 50:15 ... and having authority. It means this pos- person woke up, they ironed their suit, they combed their hair, they shined their shoes. They've got it together.

Lewis Howes 50:23 They're ready to go.

Evy Poumpouras 50:24 Yes. That image matters.

Lewis Howes 50:26 Wow.

Evy Poumpouras 50:27 So we actually... That image was actually a very important thing because if I look like a disheveled mess-

Lewis Howes 50:33 [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 50:33 ... then it looked like my security plan was gonna be a disheveled mess-

Lewis Howes 50:36 Wow

Evy Poumpouras 50:37 ... and my colleagues were, and it'd send a, a clear signal to everybody else, "Come on, take a shot. We don't, obviously can't even put ourselves together, so why don't you go for it?"

Lewis Howes 50:44 Wow.

Evy Poumpouras 50:45 And fitness was another big thing. Fitness. In fact, on the president's detail, they made sure everybody was physically fit. I mean, they weighed us.

Lewis Howes 50:54 Really? Like on a monthly basis or what there?

Evy Poumpouras 50:57 Every three months.

Lewis Howes 50:58 They weigh you?

Evy Poumpouras 50:59 It was weight, and it was... And again, it wasn't done for like the-

Lewis Howes 51:02 [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 51:03 ... the visual part. It was weight, flexibility, how fast you could run, how many pull-ups you could do, um, your pushups. There was, like, certain things you had to do within a window. Every three months you had to take this test.

Lewis Howes 51:14 Is body composition something that matters when you're trying to influence credibility, authority, trust in someone?

Evy Poumpouras 51:22 What do you mean by that?

Lewis Howes 51:24 I mean, if I'm, I guess, 100 pounds obese, right, overweight and obese, and my body composition is not broad shoulders, tapered waist, athletic build versus massive belly, slumped-over shoulders, is my credibility impacted in my body composition?

Evy Poumpouras 51:42 So in that job, yes, it would be.

Lewis Howes 51:43 Oh.

Evy Poumpouras 51:44 Because in that specific job, because you have to be physically fit. It's also someone's looking to potentially attack or harm someone you protect.

Lewis Howes 51:52 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 51:52 Or you're doing a search warrant, arrest warrant.

Lewis Howes 51:54 Wow.

Evy Poumpouras 51:54 People size you up.

Lewis Howes 51:55 Wow.

Evy Poumpouras 51:55 And they're looking like, "I think I could take him. I think I could take her. But he looks like he can't run." So in that space, yes, it mattered. Now, in other spaces, it may not. I think in the end you have to be good with you.

Lewis Howes 52:08 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 52:09 And you have to be healthy with you. So that's what matters. And if you don't feel healthy and you don't feel right, listen to what your body's telling you. Take care of it.

Lewis Howes 52:18 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 52:18 But I, I will say that physical fitness and even mental harmony and emotional, it all goes together. There's kinda like this separation with your mind can be healthy, but your body doesn't have to be.

Lewis Howes 52:31 That's out of alignment then, right?

Evy Poumpouras 52:32 It is out of alignment. So it's, it's not about not accepting people as they are. I don't think that's right, 'cause obviously health issues and people's, uh, stuff comes into play. But your health and wellbeing matter, and it all has to be in alignment.

Lewis Howes 52:46 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 52:46 So I guess what I would say is take care of yourself, love yourself, and respect yourself, and some of that is what is your body composition, and are you okay with it? Are you genuinely okay with it? And if you're not genuinely okay with it, then that, that that's all right, and you could say, "Okay, what alternative changes do I need to make, or can I make them?"

Lewis Howes 53:09 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 53:09 It's not an easy thing. This goes back to the first thing you asked me. You said, "What did you learn in the Secret Service, the top three things?" And the one thing I learned was the, the people around me impact me.

Lewis Howes 53:19 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 53:20 So I learned to respect and work out and take care of my body because everybody around me did it. It was guaranteed. In fact, they would work it into our schedule. It was mandatory for you to work out on the job.

Lewis Howes 53:34 I love that.

Evy Poumpouras 53:35 It was mandatory. There was a gym. The first thing when, uh, on 9/11 when we lost our offices, uh, the whole g- building collapsed. We lost our US Secret Service New York field office. When they went and found a new office for us, they moved it to Brooklyn, one of the first things the guys did is like, "Where's the gym gonna go?"

Lewis Howes 53:51 Wow.

Evy Poumpouras 53:52 Because it was such a way of life, it was such a culture because it was understood that our bodies had to be in peak performance always. So I do think it matters, and I do think it sends a message to the world to a certain degree, depending on what you do.

Lewis Howes 54:11 How do you take care of your physical appearance without the, the worry or fear or insecurity of I'm too put together, and I have too many nice things on, that I might be judged for the designer stuff I'm wearing or the jewelry or the, the nice watch or the, the gold necklace, versus I'm too basic and just a black T-shirt and, you know, sweatpants isn't the right thing either. Like, how do we learn to navigate physical appearance for that ultimate trust and credibility?

Evy Poumpouras 54:45 Dude, I'm laughing now because-

Lewis Howes 54:47 [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 54:48 ... they did this in the Secret Service. They would tell us how to dress.

Lewis Howes 54:51 Really?

Evy Poumpouras 54:51 So we'd have an event. They'd say, "Okay, this is business attire." So you knew the dark suits were coming out, white shirt or light blue shirt. Make sure you bring your sunglasses 'cause you might be standing out. The sunglasses were so that people don't know where you're looking and obviously-

Lewis Howes 55:04 Uh-huh

Evy Poumpouras 55:04 ... for the sun. But if it was knee casual, knee casual was khaki pants, polo shirts. Like, you knew. They, they were like, there was no mistakes. You needed to know how to dress. They wanted you-

Lewis Howes 55:15 Wow

Evy Poumpouras 55:15 ... but you dress for the occasion. I'm not rolling into the White House or to stand post in this outfit. There's no way. They'd be like, "You need to go home." And I would get sent home.

Lewis Howes 55:25 Wow.

Evy Poumpouras 55:25 So you dress for where you're going. I guess-

Lewis Howes 55:30 Why is that important though in society, to dress for the occasion?

Evy Poumpouras 55:35 It depends. In the Service, it mattered because-

Lewis Howes 55:38 Mm-hmm, yeah

Evy Poumpouras 55:38 ... one-

Lewis Howes 55:39 That's the rules, yeah

Evy Poumpouras 55:40 ... it's the rules, but also I can't show up in this suit and stand next to the President of the United States, because now everyone's distracted by what I'm wearing versus hi- he, what he... I need to blend into the background. Not only do I need to exude strength, don't mess with me, and if I'm wearing a bright pink suit-

Lewis Howes 55:57 [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 55:58 [laughs] It's like, I don't know if I'm doing that. There's nothing wrong with pink, but-

Lewis Howes 56:03 But how do we implement that lesson into, I guess-

Evy Poumpouras 56:05 Our daily lives

Lewis Howes 56:06 ... yeah, the daily lives and professional settings or social settings that aren't rule-based with Secret Service? To also, again, not as a strategy, but more of, like, I just wanna put my best foot forward and my best potential self forward in every setting to have the most harmonious life possible and, and create the most opportunities naturally and organically for me.

Evy Poumpouras 56:30 You know what? I'll put it this way. If you show up in sweatpants,

Evy Poumpouras 56:33 you're gonna attract other people who wear sweatpants.

Lewis Howes 56:35 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 56:36 If you wa- show up in a suit, you're gonna attract other people who wear suits.

Lewis Howes 56:39 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 56:39 If you show up in your pajama pants, you're gonna do the same thing. I've, I'm a college professor. I've seen students show up in, like... And I'm like, "Are those pajama pants she's wearing today?" And sure enough. So you couldn't get up and put a pair of pants on and comb your hair to come to class?

Lewis Howes 56:54 [laughs] So-

Evy Poumpouras 56:56 I don't care.

Lewis Howes 56:56 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 56:56 Non-judgment here.

Lewis Howes 56:57 Yeah, yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 56:58 I don't care. I tell my students, everybody's just welcome here.

Lewis Howes 57:01 But you're sending a signal.

Evy Poumpouras 57:03 Well, what signal are you sending-

Lewis Howes 57:04 Yeah, that's interesting

Evy Poumpouras 57:04 ... to everybody around you? The other guy wearing pajamas, he's gonna come up, and he's more than likely to say hi to you. So what his, what is his head space in?

Lewis Howes 57:12 Who are you attracting, right?

Evy Poumpouras 57:13 That's what you're gonna attract. The guy in the suit or gal in the suit or, or s- whoever's polished is less than likely gonna sit and s- talk to you because there's nothing in common there.

Lewis Howes 57:22 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 57:22 That's how you have to navigate it. Some m- people may be like, "I don't care." Power to you. But it's what are you trying to attract? But if you're rolling in in sweatpants-

Lewis Howes 57:32 Mm

Evy Poumpouras 57:32 ... all the time and you're kinda scratching your head going, "What's going on?" Look at those things. I think it matters how we show up. I know... Look, my daughter could grow up and be like, "Mom, stop telling me what to do," but I don't, I don't think I'm gonna buy that kid a pair of sweatpants. I don't want her wearing sweatpants when she goes out into the world.

Lewis Howes 57:48 What about at home? You know, when she's watching a, you know-

Evy Poumpouras 57:50 That's okay. I've got 'em-

Lewis Howes 57:51 I guess

Evy Poumpouras 57:51 ... at home too, but, you know. Just you have to care.

Lewis Howes 57:56 Interesting.

Evy Poumpouras 57:56 I guess if I show I care about myself, then it means I sh- I took time to take care of myself-

Lewis Howes 58:03 Mm

Evy Poumpouras 58:03 ... to put myself together, to walk out of the house to show myself to the world. And I'm not saying every time I'm, like, glammed up and this and that. I'm a human being. There's days where I wanna dress down. There's days where my husband's like, "Somebody might recognize you. You sure you don't wanna tidy it up a bit?"

Lewis Howes 58:18 [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 58:19 But, you know, I'm like, "Hey, I'm just going to Starbucks. Who's gonna see me?"

Lewis Howes 58:23 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 58:23 Or I'm going to Dunkin'. I think it's a personal choice. But you also too, what you said, you also can't care that much that your outer appearance matters. When, um, speaking of dads, when my dad passed away, my book had just come out, my dad passed away. He had this old minivan, Mazda thing, and this thing was running. And at that time, my lease expired on my car. But this thing was running great. I'm like-

Lewis Howes 58:47 I'll drive this

Evy Poumpouras 58:48 ... I was like, "I'll drive this." And I drove that thing, this old minivan. I mean, it even had rust on the side. It was paid off.

Lewis Howes 58:56 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 58:57 It ran great. I didn't care if anybody dinged in, especially in New York. You can't drive anything nice there.

Lewis Howes 59:02 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 59:03 I drove that thing. Like, I was a happy... And it was comfortable. Seats were great. They weren't even leather. They were this fabric material.

Lewis Howes 59:09 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 59:09 I drove it around for

Evy Poumpouras 59:10 four years till my brother's like, "Hey, can I take that?" And I gave it to my brother. I think you also have to be confident in yourself, too.

Lewis Howes 59:17 Yes.

Evy Poumpouras 59:18 Now, maybe would I roll into, roll in that car at a W- WME party with my agent or something?

Lewis Howes 59:23 [laughs]

Evy Poumpouras 59:24 I might not.

Lewis Howes 59:24 Sure, sure. Um, again, we're talking about your book, Becoming Bulletproof: Life Lessons from a Secret Service Agent. Uh, make sure you guys check this out. There's so much great information on this, in this book about, again, the things we've talked about, but so many more things, and really how to understand people and the lessons that you learned from so many different types of people that you interrogated or, I guess, interviewed, uh, along your time, but also just what you were able to observe and the lessons you've learned. So I want people to get their copy of this book by, uh, Evy Poumpouras. Make sure you guys check it out. Also, on social media, you're Evy Poumpouras, uh, on Instagram and everywhere else on social media. Evypoumpouras.com as well. Where else can we support and serve you besides the book and follow you on social media?

Evy Poumpouras 1:00:11 No, I mean, that's it, and I always appreciate when you do that, that shout-out. Thank you. And it's like I have online training courses that I do as well for folks. 'Cause people, one of the things that happened, people would write in, and they still do, "Hey, I have this issue, I have this problem. How do I handle it?"

Lewis Howes 1:00:24 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 1:00:25 And so I design, like, live courses where we cover certain themes, and it gives people a little bit more... Uh, it's, we, I call it be- Beyond Bulletproof 'cause it's beyond the book.

Lewis Howes 1:00:35 Uh-huh.

Evy Poumpouras 1:00:35 And it gives people a little bit more... And I never thought I'd do a course like that, but it gives people a little bit more info on how to kinda navigate certain things.

Lewis Howes 1:00:43 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 1:00:43 But I appreciate always that you do that.

Lewis Howes 1:00:45 Yeah, of course, of course. Where can they go to, to check that out?

Evy Poumpouras 1:00:48 Uh, just go to my website, www.evypoumpouras.com or-

Lewis Howes 1:00:52 Okay

Evy Poumpouras 1:00:52 ... beyondbulletproof.net.

Lewis Howes 1:00:54 There you go. I love it. Um, couple final questions for you. I asked you these before, but I'm curious if it's changed. Um- This one's called the three truths. I don't know if you remember this question. You probably don't remember the answers, but-

Evy Poumpouras 1:01:06 I suck at these, by the way, but go ahead

Lewis Howes 1:01:07 ... it's all good. Imagine it's the last day on Earth, many years away. Uh, you get to live as long as you want, but for... And you get to create and accomplish everything you dream of. But for whatever reason, it's the last day on Earth for you, and you have to take all of your work with you. So the book is gone, the course is gone, anything you create from here on out, this interview, gone. Hypothetical. Uh, but on the last day, you get to leave behind three lessons to the world. I call it three truths. What would those three truths be for you that you would share with the world that's all we have to remember you by?

Evy Poumpouras 1:01:41 Be a good human being. Do the right thing by people. Like, your humanity. That would be one. You don't know everything.

Evy Poumpouras 1:01:54 You're not that special, you're just part of the whole thing. We should all be humble and just be part of the world, but not try to dominate it. And I think [sighs] just live with meaning.

Lewis Howes 1:02:10 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 1:02:10 Whatever that meaning is. You don't have to be... And I think this is important to say, 'cause sometimes, like, a lot of the stuff out there says, "Are you mediocre?" Or, "Are you not living your best life?" Or, "Are you not achieving these things?" And sometimes living a simple life doesn't mean you're not achieving. Sometimes being a person who stays home to raise a child doesn't mean you're not a high achiever.

Lewis Howes 1:02:33 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 1:02:33 You just made a whole human being.

Lewis Howes 1:02:35 [laughs] Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 1:02:36 [laughs] I... That's, that's pretty significant. So just whatever you're doing, put your heart in it, 'cause that's what stays behind.

Lewis Howes 1:02:46 Mm.

Evy Poumpouras 1:02:46 The book, all this other stuff doesn't go.

Lewis Howes 1:02:48 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 1:02:48 Podcasts won't go, none of this will go.

Lewis Howes 1:02:50 Yeah.

Evy Poumpouras 1:02:50 It's just what feeling are you leaving-

Lewis Howes 1:02:52 Mm

Evy Poumpouras 1:02:53 ... in the world? Maybe how's your legacy? How will people feel about you?

Lewis Howes 1:02:59 Mm-hmm. That's beautiful.

Evy Poumpouras 1:03:00 When they show up at your funeral.

Lewis Howes 1:03:02 That's beautiful. Yeah. I wanna acknowledge you, Evy, for, uh, you know, your constant journey of evolving as a human, being a mom, and also being of service to people with the information you've learned for so many years now. Um, I think the content that you share and how you share it is extremely powerful and helpful for people. So I really acknowledge you. Every time you've been on here, I th- I don't know if this is the third or maybe it's the fourth time, but at least three times, it's... People love it, they love the content, and they get so much value from what you share. So I acknowledge you for your gifts, your talents, and your desire to be of service in so many ways. That's really appreciative, so thank you for that. Uh, final question is what's your definition of greatness?

Evy Poumpouras 1:03:44 Just try to be a good person.

Lewis Howes 1:03:46 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 1:03:47 I just... And not make everything about me. Just be, be a great person to the world and, like, I guess everyone's taking, let's just give.

Lewis Howes 1:04:02 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 1:04:03 And then maybe with the weight, just be a great human being. The anger will go away, the sadness will diminish, right? The anxie- your anxiety will pass. In fact, the more we are self-consumed, the more those things dominate. More anxiety we have, the more depression we have, the more anger we have.

Lewis Howes 1:04:24 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 1:04:26 I'd just, just be, be a great person to the world. Navigate carefully. Don't be naive-

Lewis Howes 1:04:32 Mm

Evy Poumpouras 1:04:32 ... and think everyone's out to be your kumbaya friend. Move appropriately. When you feel people who are off-

Lewis Howes 1:04:41 Mm-hmm

Evy Poumpouras 1:04:42 ... create space and keep your distance. Make good choices. Create boundaries for yourself to follow. But also within that, be a great...

Evy Poumpouras 1:04:53 be of great service to the world.

Lewis Howes 1:04:54 Mm. There you go, Evy. Thank you so much. Appreciate you. [on hold music] Appreciate it.

Evy Poumpouras 1:05:00 The thread that kinda ties the Navy SEALs, Secret Service agents, and even athletes together, we're all coachable.

Lewis Howes 1:05:07 Mm-hmm.

Evy Poumpouras 1:05:08 We're... Because we've been trained to focus on the outcome, the team. What's the collective goal? And so w- we are all willing to listen so that I can perform better and do better