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Lewis HowesLewis Howes

The BEGINNERS GUIDE To Intermittent Fasting For INSANE LONGEVITY | Cynthia Thurlow

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Cynthia ThurlowguestLewis Howeshost
Oct 24, 20221h 2mWatch on YouTube

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  1. 0:00 – 2:33

    Longer fasts: autophagy, inflammation reduction, and metabolic shifts

    1. CT

      We've taught our patients for so many years, "Eat snacks, eat mini meals, stoke your metabolism." I'm here to tell people that our bodies intrinsically are designed to go longer periods without eating. And so-

    2. LH

      This video is sponsored by InsideTracker and you'll hear more about them in just a minute. I think you gotta have a dream. The School of Greatness. Really? [laughs] Yeah. Please welcome Lewis Howes. And I'm curious, I'd love to hear your, hear your, your thoughts on this. What is the science showing us when we do a 24-hour fast and a 48-hour fast? What is actually happening to our bodies? Uh, is it healing our body? Is the autophagy settling in or starting at 24 hours? What is the science that happens after 24 hours of water-only fasting?

    3. CT

      Well, first and foremost, congratulations on, you know, being almost two days into a fast and you feel fantastic.

    4. LH

      Mm-hmm. Thank you.

    5. CT

      But I think that when we're, we're talking about fasting, I think most people think about intermittent fasting, so those shorter intervals. But with longer episodes of fasting, you really get into deeper autophagy, which is this waste and recycling process that goes on behind the scenes when we're in an unfed state. And this is particularly important, you know, given the last two and a half years-

    6. LH

      Mm-hmm

    7. CT

      ... where we've had a lot of illness and concerns about illness. Um, we get upregulation and, uh, you know, other principle stem cell activation over, you know, two to three days worth of fasting. Um, I think a lot of people don't even understand that giving ourselves that period of digestive rest can really help heal the gut. I mean, how many of us have leaky gut-

    8. LH

      Mm-hmm

    9. CT

      ... and autoimmune disorders? And so I, I think on a lot of levels there is this improvement in biophysical markers. We know we get, you know, lowered insulin levels, which allows our bodies to be much more efficient and be able to use different types of fuel substrates, so not only fatty acids, but also glucose and getting into a point where our bodies can use ketones. That's why you have so much energy, you have all that mental clarity.

    10. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    11. CT

      'Cause your body's really just functioning on optimizing your health as opposed to, you know, the chronic eat every two to three hours-

    12. LH

      Sure

    13. CT

      ... and, and, you know, kind of the kind of traditional methodology. But the longer we fast, we're really looking at upregulation of autophagy, reduction in inflammation, improvement in biophysical markers. If you fast long enough, usually closer to four to five days, you're getting stem cell activation.

    14. LH

      Really?

    15. CT

      And for a lot of people... Yeah. And for a lot of people, that's a huge benefit that they're looking for. Um, you get improvement in telomere length, which is some of the key anti-aging benefits of fasting. And so I think on a lot of levels, people think about intermittent fasting as these shorter intervals, but there are benefits from doing longer fasts as well, kind of shaking things up.

  2. 2:33 – 4:00

    Fasting differences for men, younger women, perimenopause, and menopause

    1. LH

      Mm-hmm. What... Is there different benefits for, for men and women, you know, 24, two days, three days? Does it, does it hurt the other gender the longer you go? Does it affect hormones? How does it all work for men and women?

    2. CT

      Oh, it's a great question. I, I think men and menopausal women, so women who've not had a menstrual cycle for more than 12 months, they're in unique categories. There's not just, not as much hormonal fluctuation, so they can generally fast when they want to.

    3. LH

      Hmm.

    4. CT

      Whereas younger women, especially younger under the age of 35, still at peak fertile years, I'm a little more cautious. I always say fast for your menstrual cycle. So there's times in your menstrual cycle when you can get away with fasting, times you should back off. And then perimenopause is kind of this nebulous time. You know, that's 10 to 15 years before women go through menopause.

    5. LH

      Interesting.

    6. CT

      It can be a time when women have to be a little more careful about their lifestyle stuff.

    7. LH

      So a- after 35, sh- when should women fast and for how long?

    8. CT

      It's a good question. I think it's really dependent on the individual. So typically I say if you're, you know, late 30s, early 40s, and you're in the follicular phase, so for the time from when you start bleeding until ovulation, women can get away with, uh, quite a bit of fasting. They can get away-

    9. LH

      So you can fast during that time?

    10. CT

      Yeah. Fasting during that time is generally not an issue. But you gotta dial in on sleep and stress and right types of exercise-

    11. LH

      Mm-hmm

    12. CT

      ... and anti-inflammatory nutrition. So it gets a little more nuanced and complicated. And I think for a lot of women as they're, you know, getting older, they start to realize things aren't working quite as well. Um, but-

  3. 4:00 – 5:56

    Why things feel ‘harder’ for women with age—and where fasting may help

    1. LH

      Hmm. Like, what, what stops working as well?

    2. CT

      Well, you know, as we're getting fluctuating amounts of, like, our ovaries aren't making as much progesterone, so our adrenal glands are, are kind of stepping in to help buffer that. We go through something called adrenopause of all things, where we're just not as stress resilient. It doesn't mean we can't manage stress. We just have to be much more diligent about that. We're having, you know, imbalances between those two key sex hormones, progesterone and estrogen. And so we al- suddenly become weight loss resistant. We are struggling with breast pain. We're having heavier cycles.

    3. LH

      Really?

    4. CT

      And this is all things that we don't talk enough about with our patients-

    5. LH

      Huh

    6. CT

      ... and certainly not amongst other women. So a lot of women get into that age and all of a sudden they're like, "What in the world is going on? Everything I used to do no longer works." And that's when I think fasting can really, if practiced properly, can really be a, a fantastic strategy.

    7. LH

      So what are some of the challenges that you've had, I guess, or the, the changes you've had, um, where fasting has supported, you know, not hurting you as much or supporting you-

    8. CT

      Yeah

    9. LH

      ... in other ways?

    10. CT

      Well, I think, you know, we've taught our patients for so many years, "Eat snacks, eat mini meals, stoke your metabolism." I'm here to tell people that our bodies intrinsically are designed to go longer periods without eating. And so when we're looking at women north of 35 or menopausal ages, all of a sudden, you know, the calories in, calories out model doesn't work. And the eating with all that frequency and eating heart healthy grains and following MyPlate is really putting us at a disadvantage.

    11. LH

      Hmm.

    12. CT

      So I think on a lot of levels, eating less frequently combined with having more protein, eating less processed carbs, maybe drinking less alcohol, all of a sudden women are sleeping better.

    13. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    14. CT

      They're less inflamed. They're losing weight. And so I think for a lot of women it's, it's figuring out what's the right recipe, if you will-

    15. LH

      Sure

    16. CT

      ... to allow them to continue to, you know, age in a way that, that is aligned with their, the way they wanna live their lives.

  4. 5:56 – 7:15

    Cynthia’s personal fasting history—and why she stopped multi-day fasts

    1. LH

      Sure. So you're a mom. You got two teenage boys. What is the, the, the fasting practice that you do in your life at this season of life?

    2. CT

      Yeah. I, I would say for me, I fast consistently, but it's, I'm not doing a lot of long fasts. I did that before. Uh, and I always say-

    3. LH

      Like multiple day fasts?

    4. CT

      I, I used to do that.

    5. LH

      Yeah.

    6. CT

      And then I had a hospitalization and then I said I will never fast like that ever again. And then-

    7. LH

      Really?

    8. CT

      Yeah. That was... That, that whole process of going through that I said, "I, I've checked the box. I've done some very long fasts." And-

    9. LH

      What was the longest?

    10. CT

      Uh, willingly, did, the w- that I wanted to fast?

    11. LH

      Yeah.

    12. CT

      Probably five days. And then, you know, when I had a 13-day hospitalization and didn't eat, I just said, "I've, I've done that. I don't need to do that again." So my typical [laughs]

    13. LH

      Did the, the hospitalization start because of the fast?

    14. CT

      No, I had a ruptured appendix.

    15. LH

      Oh, wow.

    16. CT

      And the ruptured appendix led to, you know, one complication after another. And so-

    17. LH

      And you didn't eat for 13 days?

    18. CT

      No.

    19. LH

      So you're the fasting person, but you did it not wanting to do it [laughs]

    20. CT

      No, no

    21. LH

      ... at that point. Yeah.

    22. CT

      No, and it's, you know, I had a-

    23. LH

      Wow

    24. CT

      ... series of complications. But I, I g- was so sick I lost 15 pounds in 13 days.

    25. LH

      Yeah.

    26. CT

      And so I came out of the hospital looking like a skeleton.

    27. LH

      Bones.

    28. CT

      Yeah. But it was-

    29. LH

      So-

    30. CT

      You know

  5. 7:15 – 11:16

    Ruptured appendix ordeal: complications, mindset, and surrender

    1. LH

      Okay. So what did you learn from this hospitalization?

    2. CT

      Oh, gosh. Well, it, there's nothing more humbling than being a healthcare provider and then becoming a patient.

    3. LH

      Oh, man.

    4. CT

      Uh, and I, I recognized the first week how, I knew how sick I was. And I had a fantastic team of doctors and a fantastic team of nurses, but there's something to be said for even the most positive person suddenly becoming despondent and depressed. And I felt five days in I was so depressed because my surgeon kept saying, "We don't know why you're not getting better. We don't know why you're not getting better." And I knew that if they didn't figure out why I wasn't getting better, that it, there was not gonna be a positive outcome.

    5. LH

      Oh.

    6. CT

      And so I always say that whether it was a spirit, the universe, something came to me and said, "You have a choice. What's your choice?" And my choice was I wanted to live. I wanted to get home to my kids, and I wanted to live. And so from that point forward I said, "I promise that if I get out of this hospital and get out of this bed, I'm going to... There are specific things I'm gonna focus on. My family, I wanna do this talk." I missed every milestone for this TED Talk because I was in the hospital, and I said, "I'm so committed to doing this talk. I wanna show my kids I'm okay. I want them to know I'm okay." And that was the intention I set, was that if I get out of this hospital, I'm gonna do this talk to prove to my kids that I'm okay.

    7. LH

      Wow.

    8. CT

      And I-

    9. LH

      Did you have this talk planned before the hospital?

    10. CT

      Not 100%.

    11. LH

      Okay.

    12. CT

      I just knew the topic, and that was, that was what we had agreed upon for this particular venue.

    13. LH

      Wow.

    14. CT

      And for me, the big message was through adversity comes opportunity. And so I, you know, 27 days after I left the hospital, I did that talk.

    15. LH

      Come on.

    16. CT

      27 days. And I did it with a ruptured appendix, Lewis.

    17. LH

      Oh, my gosh.

    18. CT

      Yeah. I was too sick to take to surgery. I had so many complications. They just said, "If we can stabilize you enough, we'll send you home. We'll do surgery later."

    19. LH

      Did you eventually do surgery?

    20. CT

      I did 10 days after that-

    21. LH

      Holy cow

    22. CT

      ... second talk. Yeah. And so I went to... I didn't feel b- Once I got out of the hospital and my mom was, you know, feeding, making sure I was eating anything just to stay, you know, stay alive.

    23. LH

      Nourished. Yeah.

    24. CT

      Yeah. Um.

    25. LH

      So what was the complication in the first place? Like, what happened? Do they know?

    26. CT

      Well, I had... So it was the ruptured appendix, but by the time I went to the hospital... And it wasn't as if I ignored symptoms. I thought I had food poisoning, until I didn't. And then when I went to the hospital they found out my entire length of my colon was inflamed.

    27. LH

      Ooh.

    28. CT

      And they said, "If we take you to surgery tonight, we're gonna take your colon." I said, "Uh, time out, I need my colon."

    29. LH

      Oh, no way.

    30. CT

      And they're like, "No, no, you don't need your colon." I said, "No, I need my colon." And so I said, "Please give me the time to save my colon."

  6. 11:16 – 13:40

    Possible root cause discussion and why she doesn’t blame fasting

    1. LH

      Wow. Now, how long were you fasting or, or trying intermittent or longer fasts before this moment?

    2. CT

      Oh, probably five days was probably my max. I, I think there's-

    3. LH

      I mean, for how many years before did you start?

    4. CT

      Oh, um, at least three or four-

    5. LH

      Okay

    6. CT

      ... uh, prior to that. So I was definitely, you know, metabolically healthy and, and I, I credit the fact that I had a very different outcome than other people would have had with the fact that I was so healthy. I had, I had enough reserve, not a lot, um, as evidenced by the fact I lost so much weight, but my body was breaking my muscle down for food. That's essentially what happened.

    7. LH

      That's crazy.

    8. CT

      Yeah. It's, it's hard to process.

    9. LH

      So what do you think led to that? What was, like, the root cause of that happening, do you think?

    10. CT

      You know, I've, I've had, I've had conversations with a good friend, a mutual friend, Dr Gabrielle Lyon.

    11. LH

      Uh-huh.

    12. CT

      And, uh, about six months before I got sick I had been in Morocco. My husband and I had gone to Morocco. We were celebrating an anniversary, went to Morocco and Spain. And in Morocco I got the worst food poisoning of my life, like, to the point where I was like, "This is bad. I don't wanna be in Morocco and be sick." [laughs] And so we suspect that probably started a cascade of events, because I picked up a parasite, and our working kind of hypothesis is that was probably the starting point.

    13. LH

      Oh, man.

    14. CT

      That that just kind of got things rolling. Um, but I feel so fortunate that- I was having the ruptured appendix in the United States-

    15. LH

      Right. Oh my gosh

    16. CT

      ... where I could get a certain degree of care.

    17. LH

      So you don't think the fasting, the extreme fasting to five days was any effect or had any effect on this?

    18. CT

      No, and, and I didn't do really long fasts with any frequency. I mean, there's certainly a law of diminishing returns if you're lean.

    19. LH

      Right, you're not gonna lose more weight.

    20. CT

      Right.

    21. LH

      You're just gonna lose the muscle.

    22. CT

      Right. And so I, I'm very proactive about not losing muscle. So for me, it was definitely not that I had been doing too much fasting. Um, I, I just suspect it was the timing. I'd literally just gotten back from a trip with my husband. I'd accompanied him to Hawaii. He had a business trip. And I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna practice. So I'm gonna start writing my TED Talk" while I was there. And so I, I just think it was... I'm grateful I didn't have a ruptured appendix on the plane.

    23. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    24. CT

      You know, the things I think about coming all the way from Hawaii all the way back to the East Coast, which is a pretty long leg.

    25. LH

      It's a long...

    26. CT

      Um, you know, for me, I, I just say I'm grateful that it happened in a hospital where I knew the doctors, I knew a lot of the nurses. I know I got exemplary care. There's no question.

    27. LH

      Right.

    28. CT

      But...

  7. 13:40 – 16:01

    Meal frequency myths, insulin, and why snacking keeps people stuck

    1. LH

      So what have we learned then about the metabolism? 'Cause you mentioned about how people have been thinking or the, the latest trends in the last 10, 15 years is, like, have small meals every two, three hours. Have, you know, little snacks, uh, six meals a day, whatever it is, because that speeds up the metabolism, I think is what has been said.

    2. CT

      Mm-hmm.

    3. LH

      What is the research or the science saying about, you know, that not being the case and actually having less meals, um, in your mind?

    4. CT

      Well, I mean, I really am very aligned with this whole carb insulin model for metabolic health. And so when we're telling our patients and we're telling the general public, "Eat to stoke your metabolism. Breakfast is the most important meal of the day," I'm here to tell people that eating so frequently and eating a lot of carbohydrates is keeping your insulin levels higher than they should be, which is going to make it virtually impossible to lose weight.

    5. LH

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  8. 16:01 – 18:46

    Insulin resistance framing, fuel responses, and avoiding big blood sugar swings

    1. CT

      You need your insulin levels to be low to actually free up fatty acid stored fat to be able to use as a fuel substrate. And so I, I think we have really done a tremendous disservice to the public. I, I think a lot of, you know, what we see coming out from the federal government, whether it's MyPlate or a lot of the plant-based narrative... And I, I don't wanna, I don't wanna be inflammatory 'cause I'm respectful of people's choices, but I think a lot of the information that we've been sharing with patients has been disproven on a lot of different levels.

    2. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    3. CT

      That we need to eat less frequently, more protein, right types of fats, right types of carbohydrates. I'm not anti-carb, but for the bulk of the population, when we look at studies, I mean, 7 to 8% of the population is metabolically healthy coming out of this pandemic. We've gotta change what we're doing. You know, we have to course-correct.

    4. LH

      Right.

    5. CT

      And so, you know, looking, leaning into the research that's looking at, you know, these low-carb ketogenic diets, more protein helping with satiety. Think about it. When we're eating snacks and mini-meals, were you ever satiated? No. You know, your blood sugar goes up. It comes back down.

    6. LH

      Yes.

    7. CT

      And it's, you know, this rollercoaster of constant hunger, lack of satiety, so you're eating more foods. I mean, I think about the fact that I have teenage boys and, you know, their running mantra in our house is, "Where's the protein?" They're like, "Mom."

    8. LH

      [laughs]

    9. CT

      And they'll have... You know, they'll sit down and I'm like, "I don't mind if you have the pasta. You know, you're, you're a growing athlete. This is different."

    10. LH

      Yeah, you're running around for three hours a day.

    11. CT

      Right, right.

    12. LH

      You can have a bowl of pasta.

    13. CT

      Right. And you can have rice, but where's your protein?

    14. LH

      Yeah.

    15. CT

      And so that's always the conversation. So-

    16. LH

      Interesting

    17. CT

      ... if you really look at a lot of the metabolic health research that's being done, you know, people like, um, Ben Bikman, who's an insulin researcher and is really talking about the role of insulin, that at the basis of all chronic disease right now is insulin resistance.

    18. LH

      Really?

    19. CT

      And so high blood pressure, obviously diabetes, polycystic ovarian syndrome, a lot of these neurocognitive disorders that we're starting to see, like deme- early onset dementia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, all at the root cause at the base are a lot of these insulin disorders. And so-

    20. LH

      And then you get, you know, your, I guess your insulin s- spikes just when you're eating. So if you're eating less, then your, your insulin will go down. Is that right?

    21. CT

      Right. And so when you... So in response, so we know that when we're looking at macronutrients, so protein, fat, and carbohydrates, we're gonna have a more exaggerated response with carbohydrates, then protein, then fats. And so explaining to people that we're not... I'm not anti-carb at all. It's just understanding you wanna always be making sure that when you're having a meal, you wanna blunt that response. So we don't want these wildly exaggerated blood sugar responses.

    22. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    23. CT

      We wanna have a blood sugar response, of course, but we want... we don't wanna have to secrete so much insulin to bring that blood sugar back down.

    24. LH

      Yes.

    25. CT

      And so that's unfortunately what happens, is people have chronically high insulin. They're weight loss resistant, and it's because their body can't go in and free up those fatty acids-

    26. LH

      Mm

    27. CT

      ... 'cause they're just constantly stoking this fire.

  9. 18:46 – 20:48

    Digestive rest: migrating motor complex, bloating, constipation, and energy dips

    1. LH

      And if we never give our, our digestive system rest, what happens? If it's like kind of, okay, every three, two, three, four hours there's something we're ingesting-

    2. CT

      Yeah

    3. LH

      ... and it's always working, what is happening to our gut, our brain, and our body?

    4. CT

      No, that's a great point. Well, there's, there's lots of things physiologically that go on that are unable to be optimized when we're chronically eating. One example is there's something called the migrating motor complex. It's kind of like the janitor in the gut. It's kind of pushing things along, pushing food along. And we need about four to five hours for that to kind of, that sweep sweeper to come through, and it's getting rid of debris and things that don't belong in the gut. And so if you're eating all the time, it's like y- your gut just becomes really, um, less optimized. It doesn't get into a position where you'll actually be able to take the time to extract all the nutrients. It's almost like you're, you're chron- It's like... The best example I can give you is my dad likes to fill his tank when he gets to, you know, three quarters of a tank. And it's like you're constantly topping off the tank. You're never allowing your body to actually utilize the fuel-

    5. LH

      Mm-hmm

    6. CT

      ... that you've eaten. You're just storing it because your body's never in this position where it's able to-

    7. LH

      Interesting

    8. CT

      ... fully enjoy this. So what happens with your brain? You've got high insulin. Um, if you've got high blood sugar, you're gonna have brain fog. You might get tired. You know, think about all the people that wanna take a nap after a meal. That's not normal, and that's because your body's, you know, trying to, to figure out how to manage this blood sugar response. Um, people will deal with constipation. One of the first things people will say when they're fasting is, "Oh my gosh, I didn't realize I was meant to have a bowel movement once a day."

    9. LH

      Hmm.

    10. CT

      And it's because they're constipated. Their body's just literally backed up with a backlog of nutrients. Yeah, so it's definitely... There, there's a lot of things from subtle changes, energy, cognition can be impacted adversely. And just, you know, the other piece of it that I always explain to people is people think it's normal to be bloated. People think it's normal to be constipated. And a lot of it's you're just not allowing your body to be fully optimized.

    11. LH

      Right.

    12. CT

      You're not allowing your body to get to a position where it's able to utilize what you fed it. You're just all- you're just continuing to top off that tank.

  10. 20:48 – 27:28

    How many meals: protein targets, OMAD concerns, and protecting muscle with age

    1. LH

      So how many meals a day should we have? Because Dr. David Sinclair says that he's now been doing kind of a one meal a day approach and just having a longer fast almost every day. Um, and he's seeing benefits from that-

    2. CT

      Mm-hmm

    3. LH

      ... experiment for himself. Should we be doing two meals a day? How much time in between our meals where you don't have the top off feeling? What's your beliefs on that?

    4. CT

      Well, it, I obviously respect Dr. Sinclair's work enormously, but the longevity researchers, uh, the, the, the... They're not meeting their protein needs.

    5. LH

      Ah.

    6. CT

      So to me, at a bare minimum, um, if we're looking at the changes that happen in skeletal muscle with aging and that impacts our insulin sensitivity, I always say at least two meals a day. Really depends. I have some very athletic men that can manage-

    7. LH

      They need more

    8. CT

      ... to fit it.

    9. LH

      Yeah.

    10. CT

      Right. They, they need those three meals to get at least, uh, their boluses of protein in to help ward off sarcopenia, which is this muscle loss with aging. So the right answer is bio-individuality rules. I think most women can get by with two meals. I think very active men probably need three. Um, I'm not a fan of OMAD, uh, as a sustained strategy.

    11. LH

      What's OMAD?

    12. CT

      OMAD is one meal a day.

    13. LH

      Only one meal a day. Yeah.

    14. CT

      Because you just can't hit your protein macros. There's no way. I mean-

    15. LH

      Especially if you're a... You know, I'm 6'4, 240 pounds.

    16. CT

      Right.

    17. LH

      So I, I probably need 200 grams of protein a day.

    18. CT

      Correct.

    19. LH

      Right? Especially if I'm lifting and running and-

    20. CT

      Yes

    21. LH

      ... you know, physical.

    22. CT

      Yeah. And I think that's, that's where I always... It, it's interesting. During, you know, the, the height of, like, the book launch press that I was doing, I got that question a lot and I would say I am not aligned with some of the longevity researchers in the respect that I'm far more wor- more concerned about maintaining skeletal muscle than I am worried about restricting calories to a point-

    23. LH

      Mm-hmm

    24. CT

      ... where you're chronically going to be in a state of not enough-

    25. LH

      Right

    26. CT

      ... ability.

    27. LH

      'Cause if you're 60, 70, 80 and you fall and you can't push yourself up, then that's another issue.

    28. CT

      It's huge. Yeah. I mean, that loss of strength.

    29. LH

      So it's learning how to... Yeah. So it's learning how to stay flexible and strong as we age, not just, you know, having minimal calories.

    30. CT

      Right. And I think that's an important distinction because I inherited, uh, a, a... I now co-host another podcast, and one of the things that I differentiated with the prior podcast host was I'm not a big fan of OMAD, and let me tell you why. And I said, "I'm not saying if you're on vacation, you overate, the next day you're like-"

  11. 27:28 – 32:57

    Protein quality debate and practical gut health markers (bowel movements and transit time)

    1. LH

      Right. So, I mean, there's, again, there's a lot of different vegan, vegetarian, plant-based individuals that b- you know, really believe that you can get enough protein from plants, right? And maybe you can. I feel like when I've tried to do that I don't feel like I'm getting as much, or I have to have more, like, powders or something like that for, for what I need. Um, what is the difference between plant protein or processed plant proteins, you know, foods versus meats and eggs and, and things like that?

    2. CT

      Yeah. I mean, I, I- I'm always very sensitive that it's meeting people where they are.

    3. LH

      Sure.

    4. CT

      And so I, I think a plant-based protein that's a whole, for a whole, um, source protein, like whether it's hemp hearts or legumes or beans, et cetera, is very different than the Impossible Burger.

    5. LH

      Right.

    6. CT

      Or some of these processed things that have seed oils and a lot of... We don't know enough about these pea-based proteins yet to feel... Like, I don't feel comfortable saying this is-

    7. LH

      Mm. Mm

    8. CT

      ... I, I think an equivalent. Animal-based protein is alwa- the amino acid profile is always gonna be superior to plant-based protein. My concerns about plant-based protein is never that it's, you know, the, the traditional, like, real food plant-based protein. Let me just be clear about that. That's very different than the processed varieties. But my concern is always if you are already insulin resistant and you are trying to consume enough plant-based protein, it's going to be at the detriment to your carbohydrate intake.

    9. LH

      Mm.

    10. CT

      Like, I think it's six cups of quinoa is equivalent to, like, an eight-ounce steak or something along those lines. And so the amount of carbohydrate you'd have to take in, and, and calories for that matter, would be substantial. And so I, I think it's a very sticky wicket. So I, I oftentimes will say, "Can I get you to eat some eggs, maybe some fish?"

    11. LH

      Mm.

    12. CT

      Try to find, you know, ways to bridge the gap.

    13. LH

      Sure.

    14. CT

      Um, and be respectful of where people are in time and space.

    15. LH

      Absolutely, yeah.

    16. CT

      'Cause for me it's, it's like, listen, I just want people to be healthy.

    17. LH

      Uh-huh.

    18. CT

      And I wanna just meet them where they are and help educate them so that-

    19. LH

      Sure

    20. CT

      ... they can make good decisions.

    21. LH

      And what about bowel movements? You mentioned that earlier. How many bowel movements should we have a day? What is healthy?

    22. CT

      Well, when I went to school they used to say one after every meal. Now, that's not realistic, right? I mean, who has time to put aside [laughs] with every single meal? I would say at a bare minimum one, at least one, one bowel movement a day. But I think we've gotten so convinced that, you know, this is normal to be constipated. And I always say, "It's not normal to be constipated." I used to have patients that were on 50 medications and, you know, one of the side effects of probably 10 of them was constipation, and we would give them three other drugs-

    23. LH

      Oh

    24. CT

      ... to get them to go to the bathroom.

    25. LH

      Yeah.

    26. CT

      And that was normal. And how many women come to me and they go to the bathroom twice a week? And I'm like, "That's not normal," because, you know, stool is the by-product of what our body's trying to get rid of. We do-

    27. LH

      It's waste.

    28. CT

      It's... Correct. And we're trying to... Instead you're just recirculating estrogens and all sorts of other things that don't belong in the body. So the first question is, are you drinking enough water? Are you... Do you exercise? You know.

    29. LH

      Drinking some water right now.

    30. CT

      Exactly. [laughs] Um, you know, you know, are you eating some vegetables, you know? It doesn't necessarily have to be fiber-

  12. 32:57 – 41:45

    A 45-day approach: lifestyle foundations, alcohol vs sugar, and starting fasting gradually

    1. LH

      Right. Um, what is the process then for, you know, for peop- for women specifically looking to have a reset with their metabolism, to lose some, some weight, um, and just feel overall healthier with their hormones and, and their body? What is part of this 45-day process?

    2. CT

      Yeah.

    3. LH

      Is it multiple days of fasting throughout? Is it certain foods? Is it... What is the process like?

    4. CT

      Well, it is a 45-day program, and there's no really long fasts in the book. I mean, they're no longer than a day and a half, but because it's meeting people where they are.

    5. LH

      Right.

    6. CT

      So some people are re- have been fasting, they're ready for the challenge, and some people are like, "I, I'm a standard American diet person. I've been a couch potato for 30 years. I need help."

    7. LH

      Yeah.

    8. CT

      So we can kinda meet all their needs. But I think it really speaks to the fact that we have to talk about lifestyle. We have to talk about are you getting good out- good sleep? Are you managing your stress? And that's not five minutes of meditation once a week. And how many of us think that, that, you know, check the box, that's what's done it? And it's really talking to people about anti-inflammatory nutrition. Unfortunately, most of the foods that proliferate in the processed food industry are highly inflammatory, and I'm talking about like gluten and dairy. I always get, you know, the side eye from people. They're like, "No, not dairy." Sometimes in, in certain instances, sometimes grains, processed sugars, alcohol. Alcohol is a big one, you know, unfortunately.

    9. LH

      Alcohol is really bad.

    10. CT

      Yeah.

    11. LH

      If you're, especially if you're having it consistently. I don't know, I think, uh, Andrew Huberman just had, did a whole, you know, breakdown masterclass on alcohol for the brain and the body.

    12. CT

      It-

    13. LH

      And he was essentially like there is no benefit.

    14. CT

      Yeah.

    15. LH

      You know, there's only bad things that can come from that. Not even like, oh, what about a little bit of wine every now and then and the resveratrol that's in the wine, but he's like it doesn't outweigh the, the alcohol itself, having a little bit in that resveratrol whatever. So I think, um, I've never been drunk in my life or high, and I'll have like maybe like a Becherovka on ice a couple times a year to like sip on, but I'm like, yeah, I just feel like there's no added value.

    16. CT

      Yeah.

    17. LH

      You know? It's the... Try to find something fast during that time, right? You'll get a lot more value for your body with that.

    18. CT

      Well, and it's interesting because I feel like more and more people in the health and wellness space are either no longer drinking and never had problems with it but just choose not to drink. And when I go to these events, like I was in an event in New York this past weekend, and most if not all of us don't drink. And so, you know, i- I think it's a very personal decision.

    19. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    20. CT

      I know for women north of 40, all of a sudden, you know, they get hot flashes. They don't... I mean, who makes good choices when you've had too much to drink? You're not gonna make good choices personally or with nutrition 'cause you're gonna crave, you know, the salty, sweet junk, and your body processes alcohol as a toxin. So, you know, it's one of those things that I'm glad that more and more experts, and obviously, um, Dr. Huberman is absolutely brilliant-

    21. LH

      Yeah

    22. CT

      ... and I'm so glad that he's using his platform to help educate people.

    23. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    24. CT

      Because I think we've been convinced otherwise for a long period of time.

    25. LH

      Sure.

    26. CT

      Um, and certainly for me, you know, it, being, you know, a former ER nurse in inner city Baltimore and, you know, working with thousands and thousands of patients, like having those hard discussions about does alcohol serve you, you know? And I think that's an important, a really important point.

    27. LH

      Yeah, and I get it. You know, there's people that they like their alcohol, they like their wine, they, you know, all these things. I get it. Their tequila, their shots. They like going to the bar and having fun, and I just thi- I mean, it's kinda like with me with sugar. Like I love sugar, but I know it's not good for me.

    28. CT

      Mm.

    29. LH

      It doesn't do good things to my body, so I try to have days where I don't have any and then I have some and I'm like, "Okay, I'm just gonna enjoy this, but I know this is not benefiting me. This is not giving me any nutritional value. It's not helping my brain, my digestion, my heart. None of that." Um, it might bring me some joy in the moment, right?

    30. CT

      [laughs] Yes.

  13. 41:45 – 51:20

    Cynthia’s current routine: earlier eating window, protein-first, breaking fasts gently

    1. LH

      What's the lifestyle approach you have now after these last few years of, of testing it, and trying it, and having case studies of other women? Um, how do you live your life moving forward personally?

    2. CT

      Yeah. Yeah. I, I-

    3. LH

      Is it a fasting once a week? Is it every other day? What's your style?

    4. CT

      Yeah. I would say I'm, I'm very intuitive. So depending on, you know, how hungry am I, did I lift that day, what was my sleep like, did my Oura Ring bark at me and tell me my sleep score is in the toilet? Maybe that's not the day to push, you know, push the fasting envelope and push, you know, doing a heavy workout. So I tend to really listen to my body, but the consistent things are I don't eat after 6:00 at night ideally.

    5. LH

      Really?

    6. CT

      I, I do much better having an earlier feeding window. That, that works for me. It might not work for someone else. Um, I really focus in on sleep. I eat a lot of protein. I always say I'm carnivore-ish. I like vegetables. I do eat carbs, but I carb cycle, and that's worked really well for me. I don't drink alcohol.

    7. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    8. CT

      And there's no judgment for those that do. I just know it was the only thing that gave me hot flashes and messed up my sleep. And my sleep... Like, on the hierarchy of important, sleep is so high up there-

    9. LH

      Uh-huh

    10. CT

      ... that to me I'm like, "It's not worth it to have a martini every six months."

    11. LH

      Sure.

    12. CT

      It just isn't.

    13. LH

      Sure.

    14. CT

      So for me-

    15. LH

      What about, what about sugar? What's your sugar intake like?

    16. CT

      I... I'll be honest with you. My, my vice in life is dark chocolate.

    17. LH

      Right.

    18. CT

      That's my only... But that's really, like, the one thing. And so I have a little bit of dark chocolate every day.

    19. LH

      Right.

    20. CT

      But it... Most of the time it's sweetened with stevia.

    21. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    22. CT

      And, you know, I have... I, I don't have it on today, but I usually wear a continuous glucose monitor-

    23. LH

      Right

    24. CT

      ... kind of episodically. And so for me, it's like that's my one vice. Like, I don't eat dairy. I don't eat grains.

    25. LH

      Wow.

    26. CT

      I don't eat glu- I don't eat gluten, and I haven't for a long time. And-

    27. LH

      No bread, no cereals-

    28. CT

      No, mm-mm

    29. LH

      ... no pastries.

    30. CT

      No. I don't... And I don't really love that stuff, but my dark chocolate is-

  14. 51:20 – 58:29

    TED Talk journey, building a platform, and balancing success with family

    1. LH

      Mm-hmm. Now the whole viral TED Talk thing, you know, about fasting, you weren't really a fasting person before that. You weren't really talking about that. You weren't publicly addressing it, right?

    2. CT

      Well, I mean, I was... So I, I started fasting myself, and then, um, in 2018 I had said to my husband, 'cause I'm an introvert, I said, "I wanna do a TED Talk 'cause this will be a good challenge for me."

    3. LH

      Sure.

    4. CT

      And so I, you, uh, it's a numbers game. You apply to a lot. And if I told you how many, uh, TED Talks I applied to, you'd probably be stunned. Um, I always say it's a numbers game. Uh, but I think people assume you apply to one or two and then you get it. It doesn't work that way.

    5. LH

      Mm.

    6. CT

      At least it didn't for me. So I-

    7. LH

      How many did you apply for?

    8. CT

      Um, over 80.

    9. LH

      80?

    10. CT

      Yes.

    11. LH

      They all said no?

    12. CT

      A lot of them said no.

    13. LH

      Then a couple said yes-

    14. CT

      Then a couple said yes

    15. LH

      ... and you chose one at the end and...

    16. CT

      Well, I, I, I did a TED Talk in Toronto in December of 2018 talking about the uber sexy topic of perimenopause.

    17. LH

      Okay.

    18. CT

      And, uh, right around that time I was offered a second, and it was in the state I was born in, which is South Carolina, and I was like, "Oh, you know, I love South Carolina. I'd love to do it there." And I had to make a decision, you can't do two talks about the same subject. And so I remember looking at my husband and I said, "What should I do this talk on?" He said... I said, "What do I know a lot about?" He goes, "Intermittent fasting."

    19. LH

      Mm.

    20. CT

      It was that easy. And so I said, "Oh, I'm gonna do the talk about intermittent fasting." And then they said, "Cynthia, we really want you to speak at our event, but we really would like to have a female slanted discussion because people are always asking for this." So that was the next thing that was decided for me. And so I was talking about fasting in my group programs and with my-

    21. LH

      Mm-hmm

    22. CT

      ... my, my clients, but I wasn't per se like hanging a shingle and saying like, "I'm the fasting guru."

    23. LH

      Sure, sure.

    24. CT

      And so when I say intermittent fasting picked me, it's because, you know, after that talk went viral, it was like, whoa [laughs] . Now, you know, now I'm, I have a platform to be able to help more people.

    25. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    26. CT

      And so, um, I very humbly accept that. But yeah, when that talk went viral, that changed everything, and we weren't prepared, I mean, at all. I told my kids, "We're gonna have a low-key summer. I mean, no big deal." And then all of a sudden it was like my website crashed and-

    27. LH

      Wow

    28. CT

      ... you know, suddenly we were scrambling to-

    29. LH

      This was 2019, right?

    30. CT

      Yeah.

  15. 58:29 – 1:02:39

    Closing reflections: three truths, service, and definition of greatness

    1. LH

      But, um, amazing. Well, I wanna ask you a couple final questions, Cynthia.

    2. CT

      Mm-hmm.

    3. LH

      Uh, this one's called the three truths. So imagine it's your last day on earth many years away. You get to live as long as you wanna live, and you get to accomplish and experience everything you wanna live with, friends, family, career. But for whatever reason, you gotta take all of your work with you. So we don't have access to this book or this conversation or anything you create, it's gone for whatever reason, but you have three lessons to share with the world.

    4. CT

      Mm-hmm.

    5. LH

      Three things you know to be true from all your experiences. What would be those three truths for you?

    6. CT

      Oh, gosh. I would say be kind.

    7. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    8. CT

      You know, I, I think that the world can be a challenging place, and kindness is totally underrated. I would say adversity leads to opportunity.

    9. LH

      Yeah.

    10. CT

      I think that's really important, that people shouldn't shy away from challenging times. They should lean into them. And of course, it would be remiss if I didn't say eat less often.

    11. LH

      So many benefits. Yeah. Eat less often. I wanna acknowledge you, Cynthia, for, um, leaning into the assignment that life has given you. Right? You were, were trying some of these things. You got sick. You're in the hospital. Then you did the talk, and the talk created a new platform for you, and you said you're gonna lean into it and not shy away from it. I think a lot of people are suffering. Obesity is bigger than ever. Health problems are bigger than ever. Uh, and I think people are afraid to feel the adversity like you talked about, which is, like, limiting the foods they want or having less food, uh, or restricting the time. And so for you to be leading the way with having experience of it working and going through health challenges yourself and being a, you know, a ER nurse-

    12. CT

      Yeah

    13. LH

      ... to also teach from that standpoint of what you've seen and experienced adds a lot of value to the world. So really appreciate and acknowledge you for showing up, for creating this, and, uh, for, for diving into the information so we can receive it. So thank you for that. Um, I wanna make sure, again, people get the book. Check it out. We'll have it all linked up for you guys. Make sure you check this out. Um, how else can we be of service for you today? Anything else we can do to support you?

    14. CT

      Yeah. No, thank you. I, I would say, you know, check out the podcast.

    15. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    16. CT

      I have a wonderful podcast called Everyday Wellness that I'm really proud of. Um, I, I feel like it's really been, you know, my, my life's work is now to help make information accessible-

    17. LH

      Uh-huh

    18. CT

      ... so that people can take action. That's always the, the goal, is to make sure that people take action. And make... You know, there, there's lots of podcasts that are out there, but this one is specifically comes from a very heart-centered place.

    19. LH

      Mm. It's beautiful.

    20. CT

      Yeah.

    21. LH

      I love it. Check out the podcast, the website, the book, everything. Um, final question for you, what is your definition of greatness?

    22. CT

      Ooh. I think on a lot of levels, you know, greatness comes from within.

    23. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    24. CT

      You know, it's really, you know, your own journey into determining what makes sense of, you know, your gifts. Like, each, all of us are given gifts, and it's what we choose to do with them.

    25. LH

      Mm.

    26. CT

      So, you know, from my perspective, greatness is really leaning into the gifts that you were given, even if they aren't en- entirely abundantly, um, clear to you-

    27. LH

      Sure

    28. CT

      ... at the time that you go through them. I, I feel like on a lot of levels, you know, I started as pre-law, got into law school, didn't go, became a nurse, became an NP. Like, all of those things didn't make sense to me until I got to a point after being so sick that I was like, "Oh, this all now makes sense."

    29. LH

      Right. Right.

    30. CT

      So, like, really leaning into what makes you special and unique.

Episode duration: 1:02:40

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