The Hidden Trauma That Is Hurting You The Most | Patrick Teahan

Lewis Howes 0:00 How does someone learn to build a relationship with the younger version of them who was neglected so they feel safe moving forward?

Patrick Teahan 0:09 When we think about childhood, they need such cuddling and connection or something like that, but for a lot of childhood trauma survivors, that got really wrecked. It's a problem in a way because what is... what they will stay in if they can't connect with tenderness, they will be stuck in bitterness.

Lewis Howes 0:25 He's a clinical social worker and one of the most trusted childhood trauma educators in the world. Please welcome Patrick Teahan.

Patrick Teahan 0:33 A lot of childhood trauma is around abuse of perception.

Lewis Howes 0:37 What does that mean?

Patrick Teahan 0:38 Either, like, "We're fine. We're a great family. Nothing is wrong," being like I'm a bad kid, or that can happen directly, sort of saying to a kid, "You're a bad kid," or the child could be neglected and come up with that on their own.

Lewis Howes 0:50 What's the type of trauma that usually hurts people the most?

Patrick Teahan 0:53 I would say that-

Lewis Howes 0:59 So when someone has

Lewis Howes 1:00 childhood trauma, what is it actually doing to them inside of them when they have it, and why can't they see it and maybe don't have words for what's happening?

Patrick Teahan 1:11 Yeah. Um, first part of the question was what is it doing to them?

Lewis Howes 1:16 Yes. When someone's-

Patrick Teahan 1:17 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:17 ... experiencing childhood trauma, what is that doing to them inside of their body?

Patrick Teahan 1:22 Um, just off the top of my head, I mean, there's so many ways that we can kind of talk about it, but really in a simple way, what it's doing to them is disconnecting them from the world and disconnecting them from themselves, and shame is usually gonna be the culprit of that. We can look at shame as like if it was a buffet, like you walk into [laughs] a Golden Corral and there's one protein, like that's the shame, and then all the other emotions are gonna be related to that protein. All the other side dishes, curiosity, anger, joy, are complicated by that shame.

Lewis Howes 1:58 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 1:58 So they're disconnected from the world. You know, they don't feel like they have a seat at the table in life. They do a lot of hiding, doing a lot of, like, what we can take from the neurodivergent community is a bit of, like, masking, pretending, and not feeling authentic, so they're disconnected from the world. And then disconnected from themselves from a place of not, to that last point, not knowing what their emotions are, as well as struggling with a sense of self.

Lewis Howes 2:26 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 2:27 Like sort of what we talked a little bit about earlier is sort of like having one identity is, "I'm really good at cooking, and that's all I am. I'm really good at music. That's all I am," and that's not really an identity. That's a performance, so.

Lewis Howes 2:40 It's like a skill you've developed, right?

Patrick Teahan 2:42 Right. When you-

Lewis Howes 2:43 It's a strategy.

Patrick Teahan 2:43 Yes, a strategy, a skill, um, and people really get messed up when that's been taken away.

Lewis Howes 2:49 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 2:49 Like if you get fired from a job or if you get f- if you bre- have a breakup, and then that identity is breaking down. But what a healthy identity would be just sort of like you know that you're a certain type of person and you have your goodness that you don't lose no matter what happens to you. So disconnected from the world and then a big disconnect-

Lewis Howes 3:10 From self

Patrick Teahan 3:10 ... from self-

Lewis Howes 3:11 If some-

Patrick Teahan 3:11 ... and emotions

Lewis Howes 3:12 ... if someone had developed a strategy or a skill-

Patrick Teahan 3:16 Yeah

Lewis Howes 3:16 ... and they tie their identity to that strategy or skill instead of tying their identity to the goodness of themselves-

Patrick Teahan 3:24 Yeah

Lewis Howes 3:24 ... what happens in their life?

Patrick Teahan 3:27 Um, what happens in their life is they become almost, like, secretive, even if they're not p- you know, like they're pr- they're pretending to assimilate in life. But their world might become small. Like in my case, I started playing drums when I was 11, weirdly not because I was interested in drums. I mean, I liked, like, Phil Collins and the 80s-

Lewis Howes 3:50 Mm-hmm

Patrick Teahan 3:50 ... and stuff like that, but I wanted something to separate me from the other kids. I wasn't good at sports. I wasn't good at school. I didn't feel lovable at home, and I wanted something to make me very visible, and it worked. It really worked, but the-

Lewis Howes 4:05 It's a great strategy

Patrick Teahan 4:06 ... yeah, a really good strategy, but I also fell in love with playing drums, and it gave me a sense of like, "Oh my God, I can do this," you know? And it really... But, you know, that was at 11. By the time I was 19, it stopped working. I be- like because our world becomes very small when we rely on a performative, like, identity kind of a thing.

Lewis Howes 4:27 Why does it stop working at 19? Because you probably in eight years-

Patrick Teahan 4:30 Yeah

Lewis Howes 4:30 ... mastered it to a certain level to get certain results, and you probably got pretty-

Patrick Teahan 4:34 Yep

Lewis Howes 4:34 ... good at it, and you-

Patrick Teahan 4:35 Sure

Lewis Howes 4:35 ... you got people to pay attention and people cheering for you at the, you know, school band or whatever it is.

Patrick Teahan 4:41 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 4:42 Like, you're getting-

Patrick Teahan 4:42 Clubs and, yeah

Lewis Howes 4:43 ... you're getting success.

Patrick Teahan 4:44 I got... Right, and, uh, but I was also, like, at, at 16, guys in their mid-20s hired me to play drums.

Lewis Howes 4:51 That's kind of cool.

Patrick Teahan 4:51 So it was really like a boom, you know? And it really got me out of all that deep pain, but why it kind of stops working is it's a little bit of like that song Is That All There Is? Do you know what I mean? Where the drums, playing the drums didn't help me with my relationships that only lasted six weeks because I was a mess. Do you know what I mean? Playing drums didn't, um, help me feel good about myself in the way that I needed to.

Lewis Howes 5:16 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 5:16 Um, playing drums didn't connect me or afford me the authenticity and the intimacy I wanted from other people. So it's just... You know what I mean? Like, and it was in a sad way. Like, I could go and play drums in clubs around Boston and feel amazing and have great nights, but I would still go home and w- there'd be myself at home, [laughs] you know? Like-

Lewis Howes 5:37 You would disconnect with yourself.

Patrick Teahan 5:39 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 5:39 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 5:39 And disconnected, but also feeling less than than the rest of the world. So then it becomes a little bit, like, addictive, and it'd be... You- this- with these feelings, like I don't really feel like I belong anywhere. Um, but I can always rely on my drums, but I don't really feel like I belong anywhere, you know?

Patrick Teahan 5:54 So.

Lewis Howes 5:55 You mentioned something about the neurodivergent, uh, community, I guess, or-

Patrick Teahan 5:59 Like masking.

Lewis Howes 6:00 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 6:01 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 6:01 Individuals who are considered neurodivergent-

Patrick Teahan 6:04 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 6:05 Are those individuals who are considered neurodivergent, is that developed through trauma in their life, or is that more of a born personality trait that they have?

Patrick Teahan 6:16 That, I believe, I'm not an expert on it, but I believe it's, it's just an organic thing that, that they are sort of born with.

Lewis Howes 6:23 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 6:23 And it's in... What is kind of fascinating about it is, what I was talking about there is childhood trauma survivors kind of have to assimilate to what they assume the normative world is, and someone who is neurodivergent, they have-- they've probably, like childhood trauma survivors, they felt like they were born different, and they have to mask into a neurotypical world, which in a way is traumatic in and of itself.

Lewis Howes 6:48 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 6:48 Do you know what I mean? Because it's just sort of like-

Lewis Howes 6:49 Yeah

Patrick Teahan 6:49 ... if you have to... And we can relate to them in a way with childhood trauma. Like, I felt like a weirdo kid. I felt disconnected from everybody, but I found ways to sit at the lunch table and be liked by other kids. And folks who are neurodivergent, they have to kind of mask in a way and pretend to be neurotypical or show up to the neurotypical world, which is just kind of [censored] , and they wake up to it, and they're just like, "I just want to be me." You know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 7:18 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 7:18 So there's, there's like a Venn diagram of overlap there that we can learn from each other. And to complicate it more, to be neurodivergent is to have your own series of trauma in and of itself because, like, when you think back to... What year did you graduate high school?

Lewis Howes 7:36 2001.

Patrick Teahan 7:37 2001. And growing up in the '90s, how sensitive was the school system around kids who were odd-

Lewis Howes 7:44 It wasn't-

Patrick Teahan 7:44 ... or different?

Lewis Howes 7:45 It wasn't sensitive.

Patrick Teahan 7:46 No.

Lewis Howes 7:46 Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Teahan 7:46 It was traumatic.

Lewis Howes 7:47 Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Teahan 7:47 You know what I mean? So, like, we all-

Lewis Howes 7:48 I was put in special needs classes.

Patrick Teahan 7:50 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 7:50 It was like... [laughs] And that was traumatic. You know?

Patrick Teahan 7:53 Yeah, just even the name-

Lewis Howes 7:54 Yeah, yeah

Patrick Teahan 7:55 ... of it, of it of itself is just sort of like, it's just awful. It's what I call double whammy trauma.

Lewis Howes 8:00 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 8:01 And double whammy trauma is a lot like if you're a son of, uh, or, or a child of immigrants, and you have to be the translator, and you're different than the society that you're growing or you're neurodivergent. The double whammy is you have to sort of mask and pretend and, and sort of meet the neurotypical world, and the neurotypical world is kind of saying, "This is the way to be, and if you're not this, I don't know what to tell you."

Lewis Howes 8:26 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 8:27 You know?

Lewis Howes 8:27 In our society or culture that you're in right now, this is the way you're supposed to show up.

Patrick Teahan 8:30 Yep.

Lewis Howes 8:31 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 8:31 Right. And just think, even in the '80s, like sort of when, when children would be in special needs school or something like that, it's just like it was something really horrific, like taken away into a different class-

Lewis Howes 8:41 Yeah

Patrick Teahan 8:41 ... and just put in a-

Lewis Howes 8:42 That's what it was

Patrick Teahan 8:42 ... like separated, and you were... Yeah.

Lewis Howes 8:44 I was separated in a different classroom es- and, and during like recess.

Patrick Teahan 8:48 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 8:48 I would go in during lunch. During recess, I was like in a separate classroom with me and essentially the other kids who were like in wheelchairs. And it was like me and that.

Patrick Teahan 8:56 Yes.

Lewis Howes 8:56 And so kind of like the other classmates would walk through. I, you know, the memo-- We were talking about like traumatic events that we remember and how both of us remember so much traumatic events over the good events in our life.

Patrick Teahan 9:08 Right. Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 9:09 Even though I know there were good events, and I can really focus on them and think about them and reflect on them, but there were so many more traumatic events.

Patrick Teahan 9:16 Yep.

Lewis Howes 9:17 And even just... Maybe it's not even that big of a deal, but at the time it felt like a big deal, right? I experienced it as a big deal when kids would walk by and laugh of me in the special needs classes.

Patrick Teahan 9:29 Well, that is a big deal, right.

Lewis Howes 9:30 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 9:31 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 9:31 At that time. Maybe if I'm an adult and that happened now, I'd be like, "Okay, whatever. I know who I am." But at that point-

Patrick Teahan 9:36 True

Lewis Howes 9:36 ... you know, at that point-

Patrick Teahan 9:37 Right

Lewis Howes 9:37 ... with that nine-year-old brain, uh-

Patrick Teahan 9:40 Right

Lewis Howes 9:40 ... I didn't understand.

Patrick Teahan 9:41 But a nine-year-old brain also without power.

Lewis Howes 9:44 Zero power.

Patrick Teahan 9:45 You know?

Lewis Howes 9:46 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 9:46 So as an adult, we can-- we have the power to have a debit card and-

Lewis Howes 9:49 Yes

Patrick Teahan 9:49 ... our own thoughts about ourselves and whatever. But depending on like what the school says or a parent says or whatever, we have no power to, to sort of, you know... It, it's just kind of like this, this horrific like you get what you get, and you don't get-

Lewis Howes 10:02 Yes

Patrick Teahan 10:03 ... upset kind of a thing, you know?

Lewis Howes 10:04 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 10:05 But back to that world, and I, I think what warm- what I really love, I get joy from is sort of my son who's 15. The, the schooling has changed over time, that, that they've slowly... I mean, it's, it's, it's a work in progress, but w- woken up to sort of this idea of just like, "Why are we separating kids when they should all be together?"

Lewis Howes 10:26 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 10:26 And even-- there's even a culture of better parenting that people are waking up. There's like parents watching my channel. They're watching your channel.

Lewis Howes 10:33 Uh-huh.

Patrick Teahan 10:34 Like in the, in the '90s, we had a couple books. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 10:37 Yeah, that was it. And there was only a couple of them.

Patrick Teahan 10:38 And they were like secret on the down-low.

Lewis Howes 10:40 Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Teahan 10:40 There's like Judith Herman, and then there's like John Bradshaw, and you were-

Lewis Howes 10:43 Well, no one talked about therapy-

Patrick Teahan 10:44 Yeah

Lewis Howes 10:44 ... also in the '90s or '80s and '90s. Therapy was like so taboo. You know? It's like-

Patrick Teahan 10:49 Yes

Lewis Howes 10:49 ... you were messed up if you have a therapist.

Patrick Teahan 10:51 What was interesting about that is, I love that you brought that up, um, it was taboo in crappy families.

Lewis Howes 10:58 Uh-huh.

Patrick Teahan 10:58 But people in the '90s were pretty into therapy.

Lewis Howes 11:01 Really?

Patrick Teahan 11:01 Like when I was-- I moved, I left the suburbs to go live in, in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and I was kind of not l- I was not launched from home. I kind of escaped home or like catapulted out of home, and I go from like really blue collar, abusive, suburban kind of place to I'm now in a city right side of like-- outside of Harvard University. Everybody's doing breath workshops. People are going to a place called Bread & Circus, which was-- which became Whole Foods, and they would buy organic stuff in bulk. You know what I mean? And like they would just... People were living. They would go to this-- They would go to retreats and learn Reiki. I learned Reiki in the '90s. But when you're growing up in it separated from that, there was a good therapy kind of culture going on. You can, you can see it in like the, uh, in the old Oprah shows of, you know, there'd be-

Lewis Howes 11:55 Sure

Patrick Teahan 11:55 ... John Bradshaw, and he would be doing these, this amazing work educating people about childhood trauma. So, but I relate to what you just kind of said. I, I wouldn't have known anything about it. You know what I mean? Because it's just sort of like-

Lewis Howes 12:07 Yeah

Patrick Teahan 12:07 ... everybody around me, there's just like What?

Lewis Howes 12:11 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 12:11 Do you know what I mean? Breath workshops and-

Lewis Howes 12:13 Yeah

Patrick Teahan 12:13 ... inner child work.

Lewis Howes 12:14 Just suck it up.

Patrick Teahan 12:15 Yeah. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 12:15 Just suck it up and-

Patrick Teahan 12:16 Right

Lewis Howes 12:17 ... well, you know, most people, they

Lewis Howes 12:20 think about trauma or they picture trauma as some big event that happened to them, right? Some big event.

Patrick Teahan 12:24 Singular, right.

Lewis Howes 12:25 But the quiet everyday stuff often does the most damage for a lot of people.

Patrick Teahan 12:30 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 12:31 What's the kind that wrecks people the most and they never even name it? What's the type of trauma that usually hurts people the most?

Patrick Teahan 12:39 Yeah, I- that's a tricky one to name, but I would say that the m- the most is sort of, the most is about for the individual, and the first video I did on my channel was about critiquing the ACE study, and we've all heard about the ACE study. The ACE study is, it's a good sort of study to measure the effects of health over time for people who grew up in childhood trauma.

Lewis Howes 13:06 What's the ACE study?

Patrick Teahan 13:07 It's a very simple sort of test that's kind of like, um... I'm gonna draw a blank on the questions, but one question always sticks out for me was like, "Did you grow up with a parent who was incarcerated?"

Lewis Howes 13:17 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 13:17 "Did you spend-"

Lewis Howes 13:19 Wow

Patrick Teahan 13:19 "... three days out of the week hungry?"

Lewis Howes 13:20 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 13:21 It was just kind of like the, what I, with my critique of the test is sort of to say like, "Well, that's extreme trauma," but there's this wide spectrum of trauma, and what I learned from my mentor, Amanda Curtin, was there's kind of blatant trauma, which is the trauma that I grew up with, like growing up in bars and domestic violence, and there was a death of a sibling.

Lewis Howes 13:40 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 13:40 There was just this loud stuff.

Lewis Howes 13:42 Yeah, big stuff.

Patrick Teahan 13:43 Big stuff.

Lewis Howes 13:44 Big T.

Patrick Teahan 13:45 But then there's sort of what happens though from what we, what I've learned from my mentor, if you come from a tricky family where there's no really emotional attachment and everything is performative, maybe even affluent or whatever, or there's just, you know, there's not a parent that's like in your face alcoholic or drug addicted or violent, but they're massively a little bit covert narcissistic or-

Lewis Howes 14:07 Mm-hmm

Patrick Teahan 14:07 ... depressed or something like that. And here's the kicker is I had an easier time in psychotherapy because my trauma was blatant.

Lewis Howes 14:17 You can name it.

Patrick Teahan 14:18 I tried to avoid it or I tried to minimize it with a therapist, but you know what I mean? Like, I rem- I remember my first session, which I'm writing about in a book, with my therapist, you know, I'm, I'm talking about how my mother would drive around drunk driving with kids in the car, and she was like, "That's not okay."

Lewis Howes 14:35 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 14:35 And that was the first time I kind of heard it, but I, then I quickly would sort of say like, "Oh, you don't understand my mom. She had a hard life." Do you know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 14:42 So justifying.

Patrick Teahan 14:43 So I would be still justifying it. But for the person that comes from that tricky family, they kind of have a very tricky mind f- going on because they would be sitting in a group comparing themselves to me. So the person who comes from a trickier family, um, is gonna have an harder time maybe looking at this stuff 'cause it wasn't loud. But the other kicker is in my group work when I was practicing, when I would have somebody sitting down, they had a tricky family sitting down to somebody who had a, um, a very blatantly abusive family, the symptoms are exactly the same. There's anxiety, there's depression, and neither party knows how to do intimacy. So in some ways, it doesn't matter so much about... I mean, there's definitely healthy parenting and good enough parenting, and every family has a bit of stuff, so that's perfectly fine and good. But in a way, the, the trauma symptoms are the same despite the severity-

Lewis Howes 15:39 Mm-hmm

Patrick Teahan 15:39 ... which is kind of mind-blowing. Do you know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 15:41 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 15:42 So.

Lewis Howes 15:43 When someone lacks the ability as an adult to be intimate or to truly open up or to go deep, what is that typically saying about their childhood?

Patrick Teahan 15:53 Um, as... I would be curious about-

Lewis Howes 15:57 Like if everything's on the surface-

Patrick Teahan 15:59 Yeah

Lewis Howes 15:59 ... or if it's all like-

Patrick Teahan 16:00 Sure, right

Lewis Howes 16:00 ... superficial talk-

Patrick Teahan 16:01 Yeah

Lewis Howes 16:01 ... or it's all-

Patrick Teahan 16:02 Yep

Lewis Howes 16:02 ... fluffy, but then-

Patrick Teahan 16:04 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 16:04 ... you're never able to actually to answer a question about something, or you don't remember painful moments, or you're not able to actually express those deeper painful moments or just real moments-

Patrick Teahan 16:14 Yeah

Lewis Howes 16:14 ... just being authentic.

Patrick Teahan 16:15 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 16:16 What is that saying? Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 16:17 Um, well, I couldn't when I started therapy. I would, again, minimize or, or I would really believe what my mom's story about what happened was. Do you know what I mean? So it was a little bit like brainwashed. So there's this other piece about it. But when someone, if I would have a client that was sort of surface-y, um, I would know that that's a strategy, and I would also know that they might be a bit dissociative from what happened to them or their emotions. Um, but in a way, like it's, it's very, very common. Usually they do, would be showing up to come see me knowing a little bit in that way, but I don't know if I'm answering your question.

Lewis Howes 16:55 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 16:55 Like what was the-

Lewis Howes 16:56 I guess what is-

Patrick Teahan 16:56 ... like sort of-

Lewis Howes 16:56 ... what is underneath that? Like what is, what is it saying about someone's childhood or someone's life if they lack the ability-

Patrick Teahan 17:04 Got it

Lewis Howes 17:04 ... if they lack the ability to be real with you, unless-

Patrick Teahan 17:07 Yep

Lewis Howes 17:07 ... maybe after months and you finally crack them open, it takes s- so much work to get someone to actually say something real.

Patrick Teahan 17:13 Two ways we can look at this. We can look at it as modeling in the home. What were their parents like with emotions? What was the emotional culture in the home?

Lewis Howes 17:21 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 17:21 Do you know what I mean? Like in a way, like it would make sense if that same person grew up in a home with like screaming, door slamming, and then two seconds later it was like, "Who wants brownies?" Because the parent isn't being real about it. And to take it on a, on a tangent, sorry, [laughs] forgive me, I'm full of tangents, um, a lot of childhood trauma is around abuse of perception.

Lewis Howes 17:43 What does that mean?

Patrick Teahan 17:44 It means that like, um, either like we're fine, we're a great family, nothing is wrong, or that can look like, um, it c- you know, abuse of perception meaning like I'm a bad kid, or that can happen either sort of directly sort of saying to a kid, "You're a bad kid," or the child could be neglected and come up with that on their own. So when someone is sort of struggling with authe- authenticity and not being able to kind of do that, I would be curious about who taught them-

Lewis Howes 18:13 Mm-hmm

Patrick Teahan 18:14 ... to be on the surface. So that's one thing over here. Or they figured out a good way, like from like what we said earlier, to assimilate into safe zones. "What, how's the weather?" "I'm fine. It wasn't that bad." Like when I showed up to therapy, I was operating in a safe zone, 'cause I didn't wanna dip down into anything. And shame will do that in a way that we will try to contain it as much as possible. And any time we're trying to contain who we feel like we are or what really happened to us, like we're in an inauthentic place.

Lewis Howes 18:47 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 18:47 But in the group work that I do in RRP is there's a warm-up to that, that they're in a... The, when I was practicing, it's sort of it would be eight people in a room. We would start off going over handouts about childhood trauma and getting people to sort of share. So there was a thawing around that authenticity, and the best part-

Lewis Howes 19:06 Mm

Patrick Teahan 19:07 ... is when someone really struggled with it, it would become a group issue.

Lewis Howes 19:11 How so?

Patrick Teahan 19:12 In a way, like there's an exercise in that work of doing a genogram, where you put together your family tree of dysfunction, and you show up and you literally put it up on the wall.

Lewis Howes 19:21 Wow.

Patrick Teahan 19:22 And you present, "This is my family."

Lewis Howes 19:23 [laughs] Oh, man.

Patrick Teahan 19:25 From a place of truth-telling.

Lewis Howes 19:26 Wow. Of course, yeah.

Patrick Teahan 19:27 And you get feedback from your group members. You get feedback from the therapist. I'll never forget, I've done, I've done three genograms in my life in different groups, each one equally as powerful.

Lewis Howes 19:37 Of your own family dynamics.

Patrick Teahan 19:39 My nuclear family system of origin, three generations. Grandparents, nuclear family. Here's the alcoholism.

Lewis Howes 19:45 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 19:45 Here's the immigra- immigrant stuff. Here's-

Lewis Howes 19:47 Yeah

Patrick Teahan 19:48 ... the, the sexual-

Lewis Howes 19:49 Domestic violence or... Yeah, yeah

Patrick Teahan 19:50 ... abuse. Here's the weird dynamics.

Lewis Howes 19:51 Uh-huh.

Patrick Teahan 19:51 Here's my siblings. You're just laying it out.

Lewis Howes 19:54 And you're sharing it with, with seven strange... Well, seven-

Patrick Teahan 19:56 But you know them.

Lewis Howes 19:57 Yeah, you know. You've built relationships.

Patrick Teahan 19:58 You've known them for six months at this point.

Lewis Howes 20:00 Okay.

Patrick Teahan 20:00 But what I'm getting at is sort of that is an exercise of a slow, slowly getting people to become more authentic, to be able to share. It's really intimacy work in a way, but you feel like you're gonna throw up on your shoes-

Lewis Howes 20:14 Oh, sure

Patrick Teahan 20:14 ... when you present in that way.

Lewis Howes 20:15 Yeah, and do you ever f- see people trying to like diminish what certain-

Patrick Teahan 20:19 That's what the work is about

Lewis Howes 20:20 ... it's like, "Ah, my mom-"

Patrick Teahan 20:21 Yeah

Lewis Howes 20:21 ... "she had a hard life," so you know-

Patrick Teahan 20:23 Right

Lewis Howes 20:23 ... it's trying to defend.

Patrick Teahan 20:24 That's what I did when I presented the first time.

Lewis Howes 20:26 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 20:26 I'm presenting all this.

Lewis Howes 20:27 "Uh, they sexually abused me, but it was not their fault," you know? [laughs]

Patrick Teahan 20:30 That's how it works. Where I'm, I'm up there and I'm again more talking about my em- my mother's emotions about what my dad did to her-

Lewis Howes 20:39 Oh

Patrick Teahan 20:39 ... than what was like for me as a child. And somebody in the group gently called me out on it.

Lewis Howes 20:44 [laughs]

Patrick Teahan 20:45 When I, when I presented that, and the person was sort of like, "I'm so proud of you for doing that, but I feel like you're protecting your mom still."

Lewis Howes 20:52 Right. Oh, man.

Patrick Teahan 20:54 Yeah. So there's, you know, in a way, like what I love about group work is when someone is on the surface, there's two things. They've been conditioned to be on the surface, but they don't know how to be real, and that three-and-a-half year group work is a whole exercise. It has three goals. It has finishing business with our family of origin, it is re-parenting the inner child-

Lewis Howes 21:18 Mm

Patrick Teahan 21:19 ... and it's intimacy work, but intimacy work is an internal and an external kind of a thing. And it, towards the end of this stuff, it gets kinda heavy in a way of real conflict stuff, you know?

Lewis Howes 21:31 So how do we resolve the dynamics or the relationship with the work with our parents?

Patrick Teahan 21:38 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 21:39 How do we get to that place? Let's say someone isn't able to do three years of group therapy.

Patrick Teahan 21:44 Yes.

Lewis Howes 21:45 And, and-

Patrick Teahan 21:45 Right. That's... [laughs]

Lewis Howes 21:46 And, and, and do you ever get-

Patrick Teahan 21:48 Right

Lewis Howes 21:48 ... and do you ever get finished with your parents, like in the work that needs-

Patrick Teahan 21:53 Yeah

Lewis Howes 21:53 ... to be done to heal the relationship with your parents?

Patrick Teahan 21:56 I think you can in a good enough way.

Lewis Howes 21:58 Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Teahan 21:59 And w- my, my experience, my path was about being in that group. Um, but for people who don't have access to that or it's a tall order. You know what I mean? It's, it's funny. When I was 20, I was in such a hole when my therapist was like, "Would you like to... I have one spot in a group. Would you like to join it? It's three and a half years." I was looking around going like-

Lewis Howes 22:19 Right

Patrick Teahan 22:19 ... "I got nothing going on."

Lewis Howes 22:20 Oh, right.

Patrick Teahan 22:21 You don't even know-

Lewis Howes 22:21 You were free at that time. Yeah, yeah

Patrick Teahan 22:22 ... I was tw- You know what I mean? So it was like-

Lewis Howes 22:24 You had all the time in the world. Yeah

Patrick Teahan 22:24 ... you know, like I was just waiting tables and playing in a band. You know what I mean? Like, and really lost and a lot of pain.

Lewis Howes 22:30 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 22:30 But it's so funny that you bring, that you mention that. I, and I developed a six-month model of that group to give people an introduction because it's a tall order.

Lewis Howes 22:38 Yeah, it's a lot.

Patrick Teahan 22:38 It's kind, get in there, three and a half years. Twent- [laughs] you know, like 2029. You know?

Lewis Howes 22:42 It's a lot.

Patrick Teahan 22:42 So it's a lot, but it was the best thing I ever did in my life, you know? Um, it takes about a good 20 years for us to get really trauma conditioned in an unhealthy family. So when you look at it that way, three and a half years isn't really a long time.

Lewis Howes 22:56 Sure.

Patrick Teahan 22:56 Um, but

Patrick Teahan 22:58 for s-

Lewis Howes 22:58 So how do, how do we heal that relationship with our parents?

Patrick Teahan 23:01 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 23:01 Like what, what does it take for us, instead of saying, "All right, I'm gonna do..." Uh, I guess the question is what needs to happen within us to feel like we've healed the relationship with our parents enough that it doesn't hold us back from being our authentic selves anymore?

Patrick Teahan 23:18 Great question. Like are you referencing the actual ongoing relationship with our parents? Or do you mean-

Lewis Howes 23:25 Like the-

Patrick Teahan 23:25 ... like the internalized kind of-

Lewis Howes 23:26 The internalized-

Patrick Teahan 23:27 Yes

Lewis Howes 23:27 ... experience that we need to have, heal, or feel in order-

Patrick Teahan 23:32 Right

Lewis Howes 23:33 ... to feel like, okay, I can navigate my past relationship with my parents and my present relationship with my parents now-

Patrick Teahan 23:38 Right

Lewis Howes 23:38 ... no matter what happened.

Patrick Teahan 23:40 If we can do enough work on ourselves where the deep part of us, what I would call our inner child or our subconscious, when that part of us knows that I was a good kid and I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Lewis Howes 23:56 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 23:57 Not from an intellectual awareness place, 'cause anybody can tell themselves that.

Lewis Howes 24:01 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 24:01 But when you know in your internal core and you have a good sense of self enough of like, "My mom and dad were wrong about me," you know, I don't, I don't wish them ill, they were just not really well people. They did a number on me. Um, but I think also too, like with over time getting to that place and in your deepest core self, not... Again, it's really people get tripped up. They could say, "Well, I'm already there." Do you know what I mean? Then I'm like, "How's your love life?"

Lewis Howes 24:30 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 24:30 Do you know what I mean? Like, it- the proof is in the pudding about sort of like where if when you feel like you're, you're done in a good enough way is if you can live your life in a totally different way, and that's gonna also involve the internal stuff.

Lewis Howes 24:43 Right.

Patrick Teahan 24:43 So-

Lewis Howes 24:43 Yeah, do you have intimacy now as an adult?

Patrick Teahan 24:46 Right. Indeed.

Lewis Howes 24:46 Do you have, do you have general harmony in your relationship? It doesn't mean it's gonna be perfect-

Patrick Teahan 24:50 Yeah

Lewis Howes 24:50 ... but do you feel peaceful, uh, enough to have intimacy?

Patrick Teahan 24:55 Yeah. Do you have friends?

Lewis Howes 24:56 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 24:57 Do you have a good feeling about humanity instead of being so like, ugh, you know what I mean? Like, there's... I'm not sort of saying it all has to be that, but there's... I'm kind of fascinated by this, about this like final frontier of like what does the end result of a lot of work look like? And I still, I still get triggered in my life-

Lewis Howes 25:15 Yeah

Patrick Teahan 25:15 ... but I know it's not real.

Lewis Howes 25:17 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 25:17 And I can n- it'll last a c- an hour at most, not like seven days the way it used to, you know? So it's like that kind of stuff, but when that internal part of you knows that you were a good kid and you have goodness and you have a seat at the table in the world, that's what the end result might look like.

Lewis Howes 25:36 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 25:36 And group, groups or not-

Lewis Howes 25:38 Mm

Patrick Teahan 25:38 ... like whatever, whatever gets you there, like whatever-

Lewis Howes 25:40 Yeah

Patrick Teahan 25:40 ... gets you through the night is kind of that. But I see a lot of people, because they don't really know and I'm not criticizing them, I see a lot of people out there convincing themselves that they've hit that point, and then they... It's like Lucy with the football. Life keeps kind of beating them up a little bit, you know?

Lewis Howes 25:56 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 25:57 So...

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Lewis Howes 27:15 You said there's kind of three parts to this healing process. The first one was, you know, doing the work with your parents and kind of like-

Patrick Teahan 27:23 Finishing business, yeah

Lewis Howes 27:24 ... finishing business with your parents.

Patrick Teahan 27:25 Yep.

Lewis Howes 27:26 Whether they're alive or not alive, or you speak to them or not, I guess.

Patrick Teahan 27:28 In the therapy room.

Lewis Howes 27:29 Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Teahan 27:29 Not one-on- not with them.

Lewis Howes 27:30 With yourself.

Patrick Teahan 27:31 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 27:31 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 27:31 Right.

Lewis Howes 27:32 The second part is re-parenting the inner child.

Patrick Teahan 27:35 Yep.

Lewis Howes 27:36 So how does someone learn to build a relationship with the younger version of them who was neglected, abused, abandoned-

Patrick Teahan 27:45 Yeah

Lewis Howes 27:45 ... or had a, a number of emotions around feeling not good enough, shameful, guilty, and like they didn't belong?

Patrick Teahan 27:54 Yes.

Lewis Howes 27:54 How does someone as an adult-

Patrick Teahan 27:57 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 27:57 ... connect or reconnect with that version of themselves emotionally so they feel safe moving forward?

Patrick Teahan 28:07 Yes. In a con- that's something I will not take on a tangent. [laughs] In a concrete way, um, pictures of your younger self. There's a tool that I teach called dialoguing, which is you're, you're, you're having a... You're journaling on paper between your dominant hand and your non-dominant hand.

Lewis Howes 28:23 Oh, man. Geez.

Patrick Teahan 28:24 You're speaking with your subconscious, and that's a-

Lewis Howes 28:26 Well, also your handwriting is like a child on your o- other hand.

Patrick Teahan 28:29 Mm-hmm, right, which is another fascinating, very fascinating thing.

Lewis Howes 28:32 Oh my gosh.

Patrick Teahan 28:32 Blew my mind. A lot of clients have this experience. They will write from their inner adult, their dominant hand, in block lettering, and their inner child writes in cursive.

Lewis Howes 28:42 Oh my gosh.

Patrick Teahan 28:43 And there might be wounding around that-

Lewis Howes 28:45 Oh

Patrick Teahan 28:45 ... cursive kind of a thing.

Lewis Howes 28:46 Gosh.

Patrick Teahan 28:47 I, I had a client from India, this broke my heart, where they were not... They were, they were being schooled in a Catholic school where they were not allowed to use their left hand. Everybody had to be right-handed. So that's like another thing over here about it.

Lewis Howes 29:01 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 29:01 But pictures of yourself, a stuffed animal, um-

Lewis Howes 29:05 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 29:06 Um, the dialoguing. Also, what is very RRP, the, the, the therapy that I do, Relationship Recovery Process, is very tactile. Watching the shows that you watched when you were a kid. You know? Like, maybe even in some, even the, some of the foods. Um, so there's a bunch of things that's a lot like jump-starting this. But everybody shows up to that work differently. Some people-

Lewis Howes 29:30 Mm

Patrick Teahan 29:30 ... m- uh, you know, and depending on their trauma, they may be like, "I do not wanna parent my inner child. That's somebody else's job." Some people have an immediate connection, and the inner child is just like, "Where you been my whole life? It's amazing," you know? And there's like a easy way that they, they don't struggle as much with it. Other people who might struggle with being dissociative might struggle feeling like it, how do I get a toehold in there and h- get that jump-started relationship going? And then to complicate it further, their inner child might be angry.

Lewis Howes 29:58 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 29:58 "I don't like adults. I don't wanna talk to you."

Lewis Howes 30:01 Wow.

Patrick Teahan 30:01 "I don't wanna be parented."

Lewis Howes 30:03 Wow.

Patrick Teahan 30:03 So a lot of that is-

Lewis Howes 30:05 If-

Patrick Teahan 30:05 ... the nature of that work

Lewis Howes 30:06 ... if someone is not willing to have a relationship with the younger version of themselves, the inner child-

Patrick Teahan 30:12 Yeah

Lewis Howes 30:12 ... what is not available for them the rest of their life if they always-

Patrick Teahan 30:17 That's a great question. Yeah

Lewis Howes 30:19 ... if they always block it out-

Patrick Teahan 30:20 Yeah

Lewis Howes 30:20 ... they don't have a relationship with them- younger self. Or they're just angry-

Patrick Teahan 30:26 Yep

Lewis Howes 30:27 ... about their childhood.

Patrick Teahan 30:28 Um, they will get stuck around tenderness, that they will not experience tenderness in a way that they might need compassion for themselves, compassion for their inner child, uh, a tenderness towards their partner, a tenderness for other children. Just general, like when we think about childhood, like you're a new dad yourself, it's sort of like they need such cuddling and connection or something like that. But for a lot of childhood trauma survivors, that got really wrecked, and they're grossed out by it.

Lewis Howes 30:59 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 30:59 Like, "I don't want nothing to do with it." And that's a stuck place that we, I may have to really press and lean into a client to get them to hit a grief spot about it.

Lewis Howes 31:08 Hmm.

Patrick Teahan 31:08 Do you know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 31:09 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 31:09 To the point where I've had to say to somebody like, you know, "This is your inner child. Picture them," do you know what I mean? "Would you tell them that they're worthless or they're not worth your time?"

Lewis Howes 31:16 Wow.

Patrick Teahan 31:17 You know? [laughs] So it's a really, it's a problem in a way because what is, what they will stay in if they can't connect with tenderness, they will be stuck in bitterness. They will be stuck in brokenheartedness. Do you know what I mean? So, like, when they're... You'll see it. You know, have you ever known somebody in your life when their partner gives them a kiss on the, on the cheek or there's a wedding or something like that, they make a joke about it? Do you know what I mean? Or they sneak out of it a little bit?

Lewis Howes 31:44 Mm-hmm. They don't embrace it.

Patrick Teahan 31:45 They don't lean into it. They don't, they may have to... You know, some people, it's almost like I think about, like, Seinfeld characters, you know what I mean? Like [laughs]

Lewis Howes 31:52 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 31:53 I'm not saying these people are bad. We're just kind of saying-

Lewis Howes 31:55 Yeah, yeah

Patrick Teahan 31:55 ... like there is, it just-

Lewis Howes 31:56 Disconnected

Patrick Teahan 31:57 ... it's just telling me that in their childhood the family might have been super sarcastic-

Lewis Howes 32:02 Yeah

Patrick Teahan 32:02 ... toxic, and acidic about connection. So-

Lewis Howes 32:06 Mm-hmm

Patrick Teahan 32:06 ... it's one of the hardest things, too, next to when the inner child, when the inner, when the person's inner adult wants to connect with the inner child, and the inner child is just like, "I don't know."

Lewis Howes 32:16 Wow.

Patrick Teahan 32:17 And that's another barrier, you know? But, but when people don't do this... And, uh, one other place that I talk about this is inner child work is just a language vehicle, um, for people who are like, "Inner child work, you know, it's no- what?" You know, like, "I just don't... It sounds so foofy," or whatever, or, "It sounds so precious," you know? Which I get. Then I would just flip it semantically to say like, okay, then... Or even when someone says, "I don't have an inner child. My inner child died a long time ago. I don't, you know, like I don't operate on that kind of-"

Lewis Howes 32:50 Right

Patrick Teahan 32:50 ... "wavelength," or whatever. I say, "Do you have an amygdala? Do you have a limbic system? You do."

Lewis Howes 32:55 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 32:55 "You have an inner child. It's just your, it's just your emotional memory system."

Lewis Howes 32:58 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 32:59 And you also have, and other people will sort of say like, "I can't find my inner adult. I can barely function. I will never find my inner adult." And I'm like, "You have a prefrontal cortex that works all the time," you know what I mean? Like, you get triggered for three days, and then you rally and get out of it. That's when your prefrontal cortex comes up online. Prefrontal cortex is just your inner adult. It's the more functioning part of you.

Lewis Howes 33:22 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 33:22 And that's the part of you that's gonna start to have a conversation with your limbic system, specifically your amygdala, which is like the file cabinet of all-

Lewis Howes 33:31 Mm-hmm

Patrick Teahan 33:31 ... the bad stuff.

Lewis Howes 33:33 If an adult has an emotional reaction to something that triggers them, whether it be in an intimate relationship, a friendship, a parent, a coworker, people around the world, normal life, whatever may, something they see online, if something emotionally triggers them often-

Patrick Teahan 33:50 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 33:50 ... what does that say about them if they're emotionally triggered consistently?

Patrick Teahan 33:56 That they probably need to do some childhood trauma work. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 33:59 Is it all tied to-

Patrick Teahan 34:00 Yeah

Lewis Howes 34:00 ... like I think I heard Gabor Mate say, "If it's hysterical, it's historical." And if someone is-

Patrick Teahan 34:06 Yeah, sure

Lewis Howes 34:06 ... having a hysterical reaction or-

Patrick Teahan 34:08 Yeah

Lewis Howes 34:08 ... some type of emotional charge around it-

Patrick Teahan 34:11 Right

Lewis Howes 34:11 ... then there's some type of history tied to that feeling-

Patrick Teahan 34:15 Yeah. Right

Lewis Howes 34:15 ... that's causing the trigger.

Patrick Teahan 34:17 Yep.

Lewis Howes 34:17 I'm not saying we go around and we're just numb to life and we have no emotion to anything.

Patrick Teahan 34:21 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 34:21 But if something is constantly triggering you so much-

Patrick Teahan 34:23 Yeah

Lewis Howes 34:24 ... to focus on it-

Patrick Teahan 34:25 Right

Lewis Howes 34:25 ... you're saying that there's some type of history or trauma that needs to be healed.

Patrick Teahan 34:30 Yes, and I love what you just... The, the, the Gabor Mate quote's beautiful. Also, Carl Jung said, "Neurosis is just evidence of suffering." You know? So when we think about someone who's neurotic, like sort of like, you know, like, like, you know, we all have our stuff. Uh, you know, I had a friend years ago who's like, "I, no sharp knives in the sink," you know what I mean? 'Cause they have this fear of whatever, and that's like more of a persnickety kind of trigger. But, like, I used to get so triggered. I was sort of a, a, a rager, a fight response, took everything personally. I was so in bad shape that I would take it personally that people were not walking fast enough in front of me on the sidewalk.

Lewis Howes 35:06 [laughs] Dude, I know that feeling.

Patrick Teahan 35:08 So you're, you're just sort of like-

Lewis Howes 35:09 I know that feeling

Patrick Teahan 35:09 ... what? You know, I'm impatient, you know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 35:11 Yeah, me too.

Patrick Teahan 35:11 Like, there's just a thing there. But, like, it mi- m- it might be part of just my personality I was born with, but it's definitely about people being thoughtless and oblivious-

Lewis Howes 35:20 Mm-hmm

Patrick Teahan 35:21 ... which is the household that I grew up in. So when people are thoughtless and oblivious around me, historically, not anymore, now it's kind of lovely where I'm j- if someone doesn't hold the door open for me in a simple way or whatever, I'm like, "Oh, maybe they got, they got a lot of stuff going on."

Lewis Howes 35:35 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 35:35 But it used to be like, "You're so-"

Lewis Howes 35:36 Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Patrick Teahan 35:37 You know, like-

Lewis Howes 35:37 Disrespect me

Patrick Teahan 35:38 ... can't believe you. Or just even being, like, so nauseated by humanity-

Lewis Howes 35:41 Yeah

Patrick Teahan 35:41 ... which is sort of like another kind of thing. But when someone is, is triggered in a place is, first of all, do they know that they're triggered? Because a lot of people who, like, "I don't, triggering? Whatever. I'm just, I just don't like it when people-"

Lewis Howes 35:55 Yeah, yeah

Patrick Teahan 35:55 ... "don't hold the door open for me," you know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 35:56 Yeah. [laughs]

Patrick Teahan 35:57 Um, so it's kind of, it's the hardest thing in my work is telling somebody that they're triggered or asking them or trying to, or get them to be warmed up to this idea about... I don't, I, I typically work with people, or when I was working, that they would, I would, I started screening. Like, t- I needed them to know that something was up in childhood-

Lewis Howes 36:16 Mm-hmm

Patrick Teahan 36:16 ... because I would hit dead ends with people if they, "I just wanna be better with my boss," and if they didn't really know that.

Lewis Howes 36:21 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 36:22 But when someone is triggered, I think, more times out of the week than not, then they might have stuff to really kind of look at.

Lewis Howes 36:31 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 36:31 And I'm not saying- People are very protective about their emotions. Like they're in a bad marriage, their boss sucks, the traffic around LA, you know, like all of it. You know, when you kind of maybe ask them, first of all, never sort of say, "Are you triggered?" 'Cause that's [laughs]

Lewis Howes 36:47 That's triggering.

Patrick Teahan 36:48 Yes. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 36:48 Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Teahan 36:49 Um, there's a morality. Like you're sort of... When we ask somebody if they're triggered, it's almost like we're asking, "Are you out of control right now?"

Lewis Howes 36:56 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 36:56 You know what I mean? Or, you know. So it, it really depends on their awareness of it, their buy-in to it, their defensiveness around it, and their shame.

Lewis Howes 37:05 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 37:05 But like if you're... The world is crazy, the world is really triggering, but I often think with childhood trauma, this might be the best way to talk about it, is like a spinal tap thing. Like our amps go to 11, where to be a human, it's annoying. If you're having a bad day, like you do, you've got like a six-month-old and a carriage and someone doesn't open up the door for you and you're on two hours of sleep, you're gonna have feelings about it. But for childhood trauma, if you were raised by someone who was very narcissistic or thoughtless, oblivious, very selfish, or very just really out of touch or whatever, there's that added, you know, energy to it. There's that added charge to it. And what was wild about doing group work is I had this realization when I started doing it, and it's kind of like I would talk to my, my therapist, Amanda. I'm like, "I think I'm triggered like 24/7." And she's just like, "That's pretty common for us."

Lewis Howes 37:56 Wow.

Patrick Teahan 37:57 You know? We're not out of our minds. Like we still function on a level, but like-

Lewis Howes 38:01 But anything you see that bothers you, it bothers you, and you hold onto it.

Patrick Teahan 38:05 And I was bothered, yeah. [laughs]

Lewis Howes 38:06 Yeah, yeah. And you hold onto it, and you talk about it, and you ruminate about it, and you're like, "How could they do this?"

Patrick Teahan 38:10 Yep.

Lewis Howes 38:11 And...

Patrick Teahan 38:11 I also come from a family of complainers.

Lewis Howes 38:13 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 38:13 So another strategy was to like, you know, if I was triggered, uh, and I'm still growing out of this, is to like to bitch about stuff. Do you know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 38:20 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 38:20 And it's just like it's not a great way to connect with people or complain in that way-

Lewis Howes 38:24 Mm-hmm

Patrick Teahan 38:24 ... but that's like what my family was like, so.

Lewis Howes 38:26 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 38:27 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 38:28 If someone has experienced emotional, verbal, or sexual abuse in childhood, how does that shape the inner voice that someone carries with them-

Patrick Teahan 38:37 Ooh

Lewis Howes 38:37 ... for the rest of their life?

Patrick Teahan 38:39 Yeah. Um, it's gonna affect them in a way of inner voice about, "Am I worthy of protection?"

Lewis Howes 38:50 Hmm.

Patrick Teahan 38:51 Do you know what I mean? Like if there was sexual abuse, am I worthy of... You know what I mean? You can b- you can rightfully so get really bitter and really brokenhearted in that way. And the inner voice stuff is, my-- I learned this from my mentor, is that we look at the present through the lens of our childhood. So-

Lewis Howes 39:09 We look at the present-

Patrick Teahan 39:10 We look at the present through the lens of childhood. So-

Lewis Howes 39:12 Uh, we look at the now, what's happening right now-

Patrick Teahan 39:14 Yeah

Lewis Howes 39:14 ... through the lens of what happened to us in childhood.

Patrick Teahan 39:16 Right.

Lewis Howes 39:16 Interesting.

Patrick Teahan 39:17 So that l- you know, like I-

Lewis Howes 39:18 Hmm

Patrick Teahan 39:19 ... if, if I grew up in verbal abuse, emotional abuse, and physical abuse, is, um, this would happen to me a lot, is like when I would try to be positive or try to make a connection with somebody, and it just wasn't gelling, I would either make that personally or evidence that I was a POS. So that's looking at the lens. And in a way, what's not there is just like maybe there wasn't chemistry with that person. Maybe that person had something going on. It was about me. So that inner voice becomes... The inner voice is a lot of like confirming the old stuff-

Lewis Howes 39:50 Ah

Patrick Teahan 39:50 ... in the present.

Lewis Howes 39:51 Gosh.

Patrick Teahan 39:52 Do you know?

Lewis Howes 39:53 So healing the inner child w- is the work. That is like, because everything about the present-

Patrick Teahan 39:59 Yeah

Lewis Howes 39:59 ... if it's l- if it's-- if we are experiencing the present day through the lens of all of our memories of childhood-

Patrick Teahan 40:06 Yeah

Lewis Howes 40:07 ... and if our memories of childhood were typically focused around the energy of we are bad and wrong-

Patrick Teahan 40:13 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 40:13 ... or we were not, we were taken advantage of-

Patrick Teahan 40:15 Yep

Lewis Howes 40:16 ... or didn't have things like everyone else had them, or we were outsiders, then that is how we-

Patrick Teahan 40:20 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 40:20 ... look at our life today.

Patrick Teahan 40:22 Right. Yes.

Lewis Howes 40:23 It, it doesn't leave us until we mend that relationship, we, we heal those memories, we reconnect with that and either grieve the things that we didn't have, find meaning in those things, heal that relationship. Uh, a-

Patrick Teahan 40:40 Yeah

Lewis Howes 40:40 ... act now as the adult in the room, like, "Hey, I got us now. You went through this, but-

Patrick Teahan 40:45 Beautiful. That's right

Lewis Howes 40:45 ... you don't have to go through this moving forward." If we don't do those things, what I'm hearing you say is we're always gonna be suffering at some level.

Patrick Teahan 40:53 Yes. I don't wanna be sort of like... That was well said. You know, always suffering on some level. Not trying to attack your language-

Lewis Howes 40:59 Sure

Patrick Teahan 40:59 ... but it's just sort of like as we get older, things mellow, which is good.

Lewis Howes 41:03 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 41:03 And we can learn things about awareness, about like, "Oh yeah, I'm triggered in that way." But you're right in the way that there, there is some kind of deep primal work, I think, that needs to sort of happen in that way.

Lewis Howes 41:14 Hmm.

Patrick Teahan 41:14 And that re-parenting is kind of like little Patrick. It sounds goofy, but little Patrick, what did it take you back to when that person didn't open the door for you? Little Patrick, what ha- what does it take you back to when, when she broke up with you-

Lewis Howes 41:26 Hmm

Patrick Teahan 41:26 ... after six weeks? 'Cause that's like a pattern for us. You know what I mean? Little Patrick, what does it take you back to when you didn't get the promotion?

Lewis Howes 41:33 Hmm.

Patrick Teahan 41:33 Do you know what I mean? Because childhood traumas, if like these are, these are things that are like life on life's terms, but when we grow up in childhood trauma, um, in my 20s in a breakup, uh, that would put me in a hole, where I feel like maybe someone who didn't grow up with childhood trauma, they'd be sad, they'd be depressed for like two weeks or whatever, then they might get back out there and whatever.

Lewis Howes 41:52 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 41:52 We're in it for like eight, eight months.

Lewis Howes 41:54 Oh, yeah.

Patrick Teahan 41:54 Do you know what I mean? Like it's, it's-

Lewis Howes 41:55 Years sometimes, like-

Patrick Teahan 41:56 Yeah. Right. You know, it, it-

Lewis Howes 41:57 Ruminating about this

Patrick Teahan 41:58 ... it stayed with us.

Lewis Howes 41:58 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 41:58 And those are all warning, not warning signs, but it's just like there's a beautiful crisis that happens to us where trauma bites us in the ass. And what is... It's hard about that, but it's also gives us the answers. Do you know what I mean? Like in, in this, this book that I'm writing about, this three-and-a-half year group that I did in my early 20s, is I sat down with a fellow waiter, and he would just notice. He's like, "You know, you're, yous a friend, you know what I mean? Are you okay? What's going on with you?" And I just spilled the beans with him. Um, and those, that was a moment where everything was catching up with me. So it feels bad when trauma bites you in the ass, but it's the best moment. It's the absolute best moment-

Lewis Howes 42:38 Yeah. And I really believe, like, the greater the pain you have, the greater the purpose is on the other side of that, if you lean into it.

Patrick Teahan 42:44 That's beautiful, yeah.

Lewis Howes 42:44 You know, you went through intense pain. You went into the healing journey, and you wanted to be a therapist or learn about human psychology and understanding how to help-

Patrick Teahan 42:53 Yep

Lewis Howes 42:53 ... others going through similar or worse pain than you.

Patrick Teahan 42:56 Yes, so inspiring to see my therapist. "This is what you do?" You know? [laughs]

Lewis Howes 43:00 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Patrick Teahan 43:01 You know?

Lewis Howes 43:02 Exactly.

Patrick Teahan 43:02 And super inspiring.

Lewis Howes 43:04 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 43:04 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 43:06 Do people from dysfunctional childhoods unconsciously seek out partners who feel familiar, who are also dysfunctional, even if familiar means painful or disconnected? How do we break that pattern also if-

Patrick Teahan 43:23 Yeah

Lewis Howes 43:23 ... if people do that?

Patrick Teahan 43:24 Great question. Absolutely, yes. Um, but it's a weird thing. I learned from my mentor that replicating trauma and being triggered is not a choice.

Lewis Howes 43:36 It's not a choice.

Patrick Teahan 43:37 Not a choice. So we might, you know, we might look at the person. You know, we've all had friends. I've been that person, too, who's like, "Why are you dating your fourth alcoholic who lives in their car?" You know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 43:47 Right.

Patrick Teahan 43:47 Like, "Why are you dating beneath you?" Like, what is... [laughs]

Lewis Howes 43:50 Right. Why is that?

Patrick Teahan 43:51 What is up with, what is up with that?

Lewis Howes 43:52 It's not a-

Patrick Teahan 43:52 We gotta talk about that, you know?

Lewis Howes 43:53 It's not a conscious thing? We don't have control over that?

Patrick Teahan 43:55 Two things. It's familiar, but the re-parenting stuff and the group therapy stuff is sort of no one protected you from those situations. So it's not like we're attracting those folks. They usually just kinda happen to us in a way.

Lewis Howes 44:12 So interesting.

Patrick Teahan 44:13 So it's in a way, like, you know what I mean? Like, it, it could be wrapped up the inner child might wants to rescue a parent. The inner child might wanna be available to really difficult people. You know? Like, this is all very patternized. But what's missing behind it is the parenting around it is, you know... And I got this from my therapist. It's like, you know, "What are you doing here? That's not good for you." You know, we need that in our homes when we're kids, not in a controlling way, sort of like, you know, you're 10 years old, and it's like, "You know what, honey? Like, you, you wanna be friends with Joe, but Joe invites you over, and he's never home. He calls you, and then he gets distracted, and that, like, happens seven times, and you get so upset."

Lewis Howes 44:52 Stop going.

Patrick Teahan 44:53 You know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 44:53 There you go.

Patrick Teahan 44:53 Or like, "I love you so much, I, I think I want you to love yourself so much that you have friends that show up for you."

Lewis Howes 44:59 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 44:59 You're like, "Ugh." You know? Like, it's just sort of like we... No one grows up with that. So it's not so much that the person is a magnet, you know, 'cause we can have this nasty belief like I'm always gonna be caught with people that-

Lewis Howes 45:12 Attracting bad people

Patrick Teahan 45:13 ... or that it never works out or whatever and that there's, there's... It's, it's just more about it's very familiar. And I think if we ask anybody caught in that pattern, these people just show up on your doorstep. But it's not that you're a magnet, it's that you are too available to it when it happens, because-

Lewis Howes 45:31 You welcome it in. You're, yeah

Patrick Teahan 45:31 ... because no one has taught you. It's just sort of like, you know, "I love you so much, I don't want you to take that on."

Lewis Howes 45:37 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 45:38 And that's the message that I had to learn in therapy and then take that to my inner child because I would do that. I would date very... I mean, it's also, I was in my 20s, and anything goes in your 20s.

Lewis Howes 45:48 Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Teahan 45:48 But I was also dating women that I could take care of if they were a little bit messy.

Lewis Howes 45:51 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 45:51 If I could, like, p- if I could make them happy-

Lewis Howes 45:53 Sure

Patrick Teahan 45:53 ... and that's definitely related to mom.

Lewis Howes 45:56 Wow.

Patrick Teahan 45:56 And they would be really out there and really messy, and that was my jam, and that's very, very common.

Lewis Howes 46:03 You saw the potential of what they could be. You're like, "Oh, you're beautiful."

Patrick Teahan 46:06 I can fix you.

Lewis Howes 46:06 "You're talented, but if I can help you see it."

Patrick Teahan 46:08 Right. But it, there's a fantasy. That woman's like, "Oh my God, you got me to stop drinking and get out of me, my, my roommate situation," whatever. But the, the goal for me is for someone to say, "You're an amazing person. You are my savior."

Lewis Howes 46:21 Wow, 'cause no one would say that before.

Patrick Teahan 46:23 My mom, I was trying to do that with my mom, but she could never sort of say that or whate- You know, it's just like we all have these strategies about how to get love.

Lewis Howes 46:30 Wow.

Patrick Teahan 46:31 You know? So really, the, the real main lesson for the listener if you have a pattern of people who are difficult or messy or it never works out or whatever, it's not that you're attracting them. It's just like no one ever told you you could look elsewhere.

Lewis Howes 46:47 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 46:47 And w- I often... I'm big on this, this last piece, is healthy people are intimidating.

Lewis Howes 46:53 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 46:54 And they should be.

Lewis Howes 46:55 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 46:56 Healthy people to date. 'Cause in a way, like, as childhood trauma survivors, I don't know if you had this, this... I didn't know what to do with healthy people.

Lewis Howes 47:02 No.

Patrick Teahan 47:03 Do you know what I mean? Like, people would be like, "I'm gonna go play tennis. I'm gonna go to the beach this weekend. I'm take, taking care of, care of myself," and, you know, like, whatever, and I'm just gonna... You know, they would be doing healthy things, and I would feel, "Oh, that's definitely not for me." You know what I mean? Like, I would just, I would be more, um... You know, it'd be, it'd be a funny thing if you were just like, "I'm going tennis. I'm do- doing this. Gonna go to the beach. Gonna hang out with my friends. Haven't seen my friend in a while. What are you gonna do this weekend, Patrick?" And I'm like, "I'm gonna rip butts in a coffee shop and drink way too much coffee and read my self-help books." [laughs]

Lewis Howes 47:33 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 47:35 Do you know what I mean? And, like, people... Eventually I started to warm up and be more involved with healthy people doing healthy things.

Lewis Howes 47:42 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 47:42 But, like-

Lewis Howes 47:42 I guess-

Patrick Teahan 47:43 ... didn't, didn't grow up like that.

Lewis Howes 47:44 Yeah. I guess the question around that is why does a healthy relationship often

Lewis Howes 47:48 feel wrong to someone who grew up in a dysfunctional home?

Patrick Teahan 47:51 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 47:52 Like, why does a healthy person-

Patrick Teahan 47:54 Yeah

Lewis Howes 47:54 ... feel scary to someone who grew up in a dysfunctional family?

Patrick Teahan 47:58 Love it. 'Cause from, in my case, hypervigilance hates the absence of a threat.

Lewis Howes 48:04 Like, it hates safety?

Patrick Teahan 48:06 It hates calmness.

Lewis Howes 48:07 It hates peace?

Patrick Teahan 48:08 It hates-

Lewis Howes 48:08 Peace and harmony?

Patrick Teahan 48:09 I don't like it.

Lewis Howes 48:10 Isn't that interesting?

Patrick Teahan 48:11 Yeah. I don't, I don't like it. I mean, like, it's where, like-

Lewis Howes 48:13 I felt that way most of my life.

Patrick Teahan 48:14 Yeah. Like, where I don't... It was, you know, eventually that group was so good for me 'cause it, it started to really kinda train me to be like, "Hey, you don't have to be reactive to people's moods so much." Do you know what I mean? But hypervigilance is such a h- a big part of us. You know, like, I would... If any- anybody listening in the audience wanna make a comment is how much do you watch your partner's emotions?

Lewis Howes 48:37 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 48:38 How much do you watch the emotions of others? How much do you- ... focus on that. You know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 48:44 Gotcha.

Patrick Teahan 48:44 And that's telling us, but in a way we can, we can, in a healthy relationship, we can feel bored. We can build stories in our head that if things are going too good, like, are, are you cheating on me? Like, all that stuff is, is really, I think, the inner child who is hypervigilant.

Lewis Howes 49:00 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 49:01 Their job is to look for a threat. You know?

Lewis Howes 49:03 It's funny, 'cause my wife, she's always like... We've been together for, I don't know, five years now. Uh, married last year, but been together five years, and she's always like, "God, I wish I would've met you, like, 10 years ago." Like, "I wish I'd have met you sooner-

Patrick Teahan 49:17 That's sweet. Yeah

Lewis Howes 49:18 ... because we would've had so much fun together," and you know. And I said, I ke- I always tell her, like, "I wouldn't have been ready for you."

Patrick Teahan 49:24 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 49:24 You would've been too peaceful for me. You would've been... Like, I wa-

Patrick Teahan 49:28 Well, right

Lewis Howes 49:28 ... I wanted peace in my mind, but I-

Patrick Teahan 49:31 Yeah

Lewis Howes 49:31 ... never, I never went for peace.

Patrick Teahan 49:33 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 49:34 Like, I wanted to make something that was chaotic more peaceful.

Patrick Teahan 49:37 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 49:37 But I never went for peace, if that makes sense.

Patrick Teahan 49:40 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 49:41 Like, peace felt boring to me and felt like, eh, I'm not really that into this.

Patrick Teahan 49:45 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 49:45 And I didn't know how to communicate it. I just thought, like, oh, something's wrong with this person [laughs] I feel-

Patrick Teahan 49:50 Yeah

Lewis Howes 49:50 ... 'cause I didn't understand it.

Patrick Teahan 49:51 Right.

Lewis Howes 49:51 I didn't understand peace.

Patrick Teahan 49:52 What do you mean you're fine?

Lewis Howes 49:54 Yeah. What do you mean?

Patrick Teahan 49:54 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 49:55 You're, you're always happy.

Patrick Teahan 49:57 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 49:57 Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Teahan 49:58 Right.

Lewis Howes 49:58 And I always tell her that. I'm like, "I wouldn't have been ready for you." If I would've seen you 10 years ago before we met-

Patrick Teahan 50:03 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 50:04 ... I would've thought maybe you're like, yeah, you're pretty, but I wouldn't have been attracted to you.

Patrick Teahan 50:08 Yes.

Lewis Howes 50:08 And if I was attracted-

Patrick Teahan 50:10 That's fascinating. Right

Lewis Howes 50:11 ... to, like, a different energy.

Patrick Teahan 50:12 Right.

Lewis Howes 50:13 And now I'm at- I'm attracted to her 'cause peace is the thing I crave the most. It's what I want as my baseline.

Patrick Teahan 50:20 Right. This stuff is so powerful. I love what you just sort of said. I wasn't attracted to healthy women.

Lewis Howes 50:26 No.

Patrick Teahan 50:27 And the attraction, I think, was coming from that's for other people over there.

Lewis Howes 50:32 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 50:32 You know what I mean? Like, in, in a way, but I wa- I was attracted if things could get kind of messy, if, uh, if you could be mad at me and I could convince you. That was, like, a familiar place as well.

Lewis Howes 50:42 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 50:43 But it's a fascinating thing. Like, in a way I, um, I've said to many in these conversations with clients who are talking about their dating was, like, sort of like, I might sort of say, "I would love to see you with somebody who you're intimidated by, who you feel might be a little bit unattainable, who you feel might be a little bit too calm and there's not enough crazy going on there or whatever," for that reason.

Lewis Howes 51:08 Yes.

Patrick Teahan 51:08 Like, there's a fascinating thing about sexual attraction related to replication of this stuff.

Lewis Howes 51:13 Mm-hmm. Interesting.

Patrick Teahan 51:15 Yep.

Lewis Howes 51:16 I want to shift it to relationships with loved ones and parents and family members.

Patrick Teahan 51:21 Sure.

Lewis Howes 51:21 I feel like there's this big movement, or maybe more people are talking about it now, about going no contact-

Patrick Teahan 51:28 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 51:28 ... with a parent, a sibling, a family member. When do you know if going no contact with a loved one or a family member is the right thing to do?

Patrick Teahan 51:38 Wow. Yeah. I have thoughts about it in a way, ideally, is when someone is really struggling with a toxic parent is they're trying to grow and change.

Lewis Howes 51:50 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 51:50 They're trying to heal this stuff, and I find that there's usually this pattern that when they go home for Thanksgiving, when the mom texts them, like, seven times in a row like, "Why aren't you getting back to me?" It is a major barrier to their healing. Like, no one can really heal fully if they're in an abusive relationship.

Lewis Howes 52:08 Yeah, constantly being triggered. Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 52:09 And it's complicated, 'cause there's the present relationship with the parent now and so much history behind it. So ideally, like, on paper, um, and the way that I did no contact was the idea around I need to... This was, was the case for me. Like, I was spinning my wheels. I was lacking progress in my therapy that I was spending money and time on because my mom would do her usual stuff, and it would really just trigger me for a week straight. It was just a very... You know what I mean? So my approach to no contact, and I got help around it, was, um, "I need to just do this work right now, and I will let you know when I'm done with this work," and I made it kind of about me.

Lewis Howes 52:49 Wow.

Patrick Teahan 52:49 And that was, in my case, that worked.

Lewis Howes 52:52 How did she take it?

Patrick Teahan 52:54 Well, just indignant and defiant and-

Lewis Howes 52:56 Yeah

Patrick Teahan 52:56 ... you know what I mean? How dare you? Like, like, usually how usually they all do.

Lewis Howes 52:59 Sure, sure.

Patrick Teahan 52:59 It's not in, in anyone's defense, you know what I mean? Getting a letter like that from your child is like, who's gonna react strong?

Lewis Howes 53:05 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 53:05 Like, you know, like, unless-

Lewis Howes 53:06 I spent my whole life-

Patrick Teahan 53:07 Yeah

Lewis Howes 53:07 ... pouring it into you, this and this. Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 53:09 Unless that parent is just, like, insightful and aware. Do you know what I mean? Like-

Lewis Howes 53:14 If they were insightful and aware, they probably would've had a different relationship with their child that wouldn't have caused-

Patrick Teahan 53:19 Yes

Lewis Howes 53:19 ... no contact.

Patrick Teahan 53:20 True, but we've had people who, um, the parent was an active alcoholic, gone into recovery, changed everything, but their child was an adult now, and they paid for the therapy. So that-

Lewis Howes 53:32 Yeah

Patrick Teahan 53:32 ... you know, like, that's, there's all kinds of stuff.

Lewis Howes 53:34 Yeah, sure, sure.

Patrick Teahan 53:34 You know what I mean? In the zeitgeists of this stuff, there is just sort of like, um-

Lewis Howes 53:39 That still means they weren't aware and conscious-

Patrick Teahan 53:42 At the time

Lewis Howes 53:42 ... wh- when their kids-

Patrick Teahan 53:43 Right

Lewis Howes 53:43 ... were growing up.

Patrick Teahan 53:44 But talking about a living amends.

Lewis Howes 53:45 Yes. Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 53:45 You know what I mean? Talk about-

Lewis Howes 53:46 Yeah

Patrick Teahan 53:46 ... making good on something, right?

Lewis Howes 53:47 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 53:47 So, um-

Lewis Howes 53:49 So how long did you go no contact for with your mom?

Patrick Teahan 53:51 Three years.

Lewis Howes 53:52 Wow.

Patrick Teahan 53:53 And then I opened up the door, and then she... I changed. She hadn't.

Lewis Howes 53:58 R- of course.

Patrick Teahan 53:58 More abuse, more stuff. I was much more in, in, more in my body, more empowered.

Lewis Howes 54:03 Wow.

Patrick Teahan 54:04 Needed to cut her off again. Um, and then a pattern, I, I had a... You know, I'm in my third no contact episode-

Lewis Howes 54:10 Now?

Patrick Teahan 54:11 ... of... Yeah.

Lewis Howes 54:12 Wow.

Patrick Teahan 54:12 That's the f- pretty much the final one. Sort of it's been since my son was one, and it was around my son-

Lewis Howes 54:18 Wow

Patrick Teahan 54:18 ... around that time. So there's usually for the childhood trauma survivor, like, they have tried, and there's just, like, there's, I, you know, the, to be blunt, in the zeitgeists of mental health, the conversation, I'm happy to talk about it with you, but the co- the overall conversation is, like, there's just such an impasse, and it's almost dumb.

Lewis Howes 54:38 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 54:38 Not almost dumb. It is a dumb kind of a thing, because the estranged parents are over here. The adult children are over here. Do you know what I mean? And there's not a lot of, no matter what articles or episodes come out, there is just profound deep understanding usually on the estranged parent's side from you can hear it in the in- indignant kind of a thing. One thing that I would like to see is I personally believe when it's safe, I personally believe that estranged parents should know why. But that's complicated because that parent may not be safe to know why. So that's what I mean about the impasse kind of a thing.

Lewis Howes 55:16 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 55:17 Like, you know, I would wanna know why.

Lewis Howes 55:19 As a parent.

Patrick Teahan 55:20 As a parent.

Lewis Howes 55:20 If you're, if you're-

Patrick Teahan 55:20 But there's this dumb story of just like, "I don't know what I did, my kid just cut me off, and then they won't even talk to me," and then they make them, that to be a moral issue. "They don't even talk to me. They must be weak, and brainwashed," and, and that kind of a stuff.

Lewis Howes 55:35 Wow.

Patrick Teahan 55:35 So that's what I mean about it being kind of a complicated thing.

Lewis Howes 55:38 So you, you had no contact for three years while you were starting to heal in your early 20s.

Patrick Teahan 55:44 Yep.

Lewis Howes 55:45 And then you reconnected with your mom, and then a period of time went by and you did no contact again.

Patrick Teahan 55:51 Yep.

Lewis Howes 55:52 And then you reconnected again.

Patrick Teahan 55:53 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 55:54 How long was that time period the second time?

Patrick Teahan 55:56 Um, I don't remember. It was like-

Lewis Howes 55:59 Like, less than a year, more than a year?

Patrick Teahan 56:01 Post 9/11.

Lewis Howes 56:02 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 56:03 My sibling got married, and there was just... You know, I had changed and she hadn't. But what was a weird thing and a good thing about it, as we get more and more healed, your tolerance for abuse from other people really gets lessened.

Lewis Howes 56:17 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 56:18 So that was in... You know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 56:19 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 56:19 Like, there's just like the road becomes more narrow around that stuff, which is both a good thing, but-

Lewis Howes 56:24 Yeah. You're good at creating boundaries.

Patrick Teahan 56:26 Yes.

Lewis Howes 56:26 As you heal-

Patrick Teahan 56:27 Yeah

Lewis Howes 56:27 ... hopefully you learn the ability to create a boundary when something is unsafe or unhealthy.

Patrick Teahan 56:31 Yes.

Lewis Howes 56:31 And there's probably a, a gray area of, ugh, they, they continue to say these things that are kind of a, maybe not a fully abusive, but, "Ugh, I just have to put up with it," and, "Do I wanna have-

Patrick Teahan 56:42 Yep

Lewis Howes 56:42 ... my parents or parent in my life knowing they're gonna say things that I either need-

Patrick Teahan 56:47 Yeah

Lewis Howes 56:47 ... to accept them, uh, maybe I don't accept them, but I can deal with it to have them in my life or so that they're, they have grandkids in their life."

Patrick Teahan 56:54 Right.

Lewis Howes 56:55 But what is the line that's crossing where it's a boundary that now it's unsafe or it's emotionally abusive, not just Mom or Dad is kind of like a jerk?

Patrick Teahan 57:05 Yes.

Lewis Howes 57:05 It's, it's learning to, like, navigate that problem, which is tricky.

Patrick Teahan 57:09 Super tricky. That was really well said, and that's really the crux of it in a way that, you know, if you've changed and your parent has changed, if that was math, the equal sign after that would be superficiality.

Lewis Howes 57:21 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 57:22 And some pe- we can do enough work on ourselves and we can accept that it's gonna be superficial, meaning that-

Lewis Howes 57:27 If they haven't changed, your parent have, has not changed

Patrick Teahan 57:29 ... if your parent has not changed in any way-

Lewis Howes 57:30 But you have, then it's like, okay

Patrick Teahan 57:32 ... you go home to Thanksgiving dinner, Mom is still slamming things, Dad is still drinking in the basement, the siblings, everything is superficial. First of all, that's gonna feel worse now that you're healed, which is a good thing. But some people, um, in a way, they c- they can accept that, and they can go to Thanksgiving dinner and, and being able to be loving in a way, knowing they're not gonna get the family that they need from them.

Lewis Howes 57:56 Right.

Patrick Teahan 57:56 That's the superficiality thing.

Lewis Howes 57:58 They're not going to.

Patrick Teahan 57:59 In any relationship, whether that's romantic or whatever, sort of like if we, you know, it's sort of like you always hear, like, "Well, we broke up. We were together for five years, but we're friends now," and if there's bad blood or there's no changing or that kind of a thing, it's just, it's not gonna really go that deep. Do you know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 58:15 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 58:15 So it's just in a, in a way, but there are... It's also to point out that no contact is not for everybody. It is not... I personally view it as just a, a, a place and time for you to get some healing work, and then you can go and try, like in my experience. But some people have such horrific abuse that that's not even a thing. You know what I mean? So-

Lewis Howes 58:37 Is there ever a place or what would it take for you to go back into contact with your mom? Like, what would need to happen?

Patrick Teahan 58:44 Yeah, and that's a beautiful question. And without me forcing it-

Lewis Howes 58:49 Uh-huh

Patrick Teahan 58:49 ... or controlling it or whatever, but I would need my parent to, um... This is a fascinating question. When I, when I think of pa- of people r- you know, reconnecting with a parent, I would just simply need my mom to tell the truth.

Lewis Howes 59:06 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 59:07 I wouldn't really need her to maybe get sober. I wouldn't need her to maybe change in a way, but I would be able to open up the door and have a dialogue-

Lewis Howes 59:14 If she's honest

Patrick Teahan 59:15 ... if she's just kind of saying, "You know what? You know, you were after me about my drinking for years, and I know that things were really [censored] up, and I defended myself forever or whatever, and I know that that's why you needed to do what you need to do."

Lewis Howes 59:26 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 59:27 Just honesty. In a way, I think what's tragic about all this no contact stuff is, you know, in a way, there would be more connection without all the taking it personally-

Lewis Howes 59:37 Yes

Patrick Teahan 59:37 ... with all the defensiveness.

Lewis Howes 59:39 Yes.

Patrick Teahan 59:39 Do you know what I mean? Like of sort of, there's also the power dynamic.

Lewis Howes 59:42 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 59:43 Um, estranged parents kind of like to say, "Okay, I'm not perfect, but you were a hard kid."

Lewis Howes 59:48 Of course.

Patrick Teahan 59:48 Do you know what I mean? And it's just kind of like there was-

Lewis Howes 59:50 Putting it back on you. Yeah

Patrick Teahan 59:50 ... there was a power dynamic go- this doesn't how it works. It's not-

Lewis Howes 59:53 I'm helpless.

Patrick Teahan 59:53 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 59:54 [laughs]

Patrick Teahan 59:54 It's a little bit like, it's like a little, it's a weird analogy, but it's a lot like the CEO-

Lewis Howes 59:59 Mm-hmm

Patrick Teahan 1:00:00 ... who's just like, "Yeah, I was steering the ship, but Bob from accounting was a real [censored] up."

Lewis Howes 1:00:05 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:00:06 "So that's why all that embezzlement happened."

Lewis Howes 1:00:09 Right.

Patrick Teahan 1:00:09 That's how that sounds, you know?

Lewis Howes 1:00:10 Mm-hmm. No accountability.

Patrick Teahan 1:00:11 No accountability.

Lewis Howes 1:00:12 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:00:12 No, like, "I was leading the thing. It was under my watch."

Lewis Howes 1:00:15 Yes. "I take full ownership."

Patrick Teahan 1:00:16 "I wanted this whole CEO job," or whatever, and it, what-

Lewis Howes 1:00:22 Mm-hmm

Patrick Teahan 1:00:22 ... it's a reflection upon me what other people do.

Lewis Howes 1:00:24 Yes.

Patrick Teahan 1:00:25 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:00:27 Wha- what does healing your inner child do to your nervous system? And does this have-

Patrick Teahan 1:00:32 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:00:32 ... physical health benefits when someone does that inner child healing work?

Patrick Teahan 1:00:37 It definitely can. What it does to the nervous system is around, I think, space and time in a way that our triggers are just like a hurricane. You just have to wait it out, or a snowstorm.

Lewis Howes 1:00:51 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 1:00:51 You just have to wait it out. You know, like ask anybody who has childhood trauma, it's just like, "I was triggered by this email from my boss." And even when they're insightful, they're like, "Fuck, I'm now gonna be in this for three days."

Lewis Howes 1:01:02 Wow.

Patrick Teahan 1:01:03 Do you know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 1:01:03 They're admitting how long it's gonna take.

Patrick Teahan 1:01:04 That one-word sentence, "Where's the thing on the share drive?" And they're just like, "Uh." You know what I mean? They know, "I'm gonna be probably in this for three days obsessing about this, upset. My stomach's gonna be upset." Do you know what I mean? I'm gonna be dissociated. I'm not gonna know where my keys are.

Lewis Howes 1:01:18 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 1:01:18 You know what I mean? Like, all of this stuff. But inner child work takes that three days to a half hour.

Lewis Howes 1:01:25 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:01:26 20 minutes.

Lewis Howes 1:01:26 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:01:27 By you have to understand what your child is about.

Lewis Howes 1:01:31 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 1:01:32 Do you know what I mean? Like, th- that, that's a lot of insightful work that a lot of... It took me a while, but you... That's something people can really practice. What does it take you back to? What does it take me back to when my boss sends me an email that's just one word? There's no thanks. There's no exclamation p- There's nothing. You know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 1:01:50 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 1:01:50 Like, it takes me back to always being in trouble. It takes me back to having to read somebody's mind. It takes me back to all this stuff. And a lot of people out there aren't aware of what it takes them back to. And a lot of people are gonna be like, "Well, does it always have to go back there?"

Lewis Howes 1:02:05 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 1:02:05 It usually kind of does. If you grew up in weird stuff-

Lewis Howes 1:02:08 Mm-hmm

Patrick Teahan 1:02:08 ... it usually does.

Lewis Howes 1:02:09 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:02:09 Because your inner child is like, "I'm in trouble again. Now I gotta figure out w- how I'm in trouble and why I'm in trouble, and then forget why-"

Lewis Howes 1:02:17 Oh, man

Patrick Teahan 1:02:17 ... "and then find out again," you know?

Lewis Howes 1:02:18 I used to always have that feeling, like I'm bad, I'm wrong, I'm in trouble.

Patrick Teahan 1:02:21 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:02:21 Like, al- that was like day-to-day life.

Patrick Teahan 1:02:23 Yep.

Lewis Howes 1:02:24 I didn't even know how to get out of it.

Patrick Teahan 1:02:25 Right.

Lewis Howes 1:02:25 It was like-

Patrick Teahan 1:02:25 But what's beautiful and effective is to do some inner child dialoguing as that person is sitting down at their job, is you're not in trouble. Our boss is just that kind of one-sentence kind of guy.

Lewis Howes 1:02:37 Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:02:38 And at the end of the day, you know, if you can-

Lewis Howes 1:02:40 Don't take it personally. Yeah

Patrick Teahan 1:02:40 ... if you can connect with the charge about a narcissistic parent or things going bad or whatever, or reading somebody's mind, if you can put that over here and you're just like, "Well, my boss Mary is just busy and that's how she rolls. She's not a great communicator."

Lewis Howes 1:02:54 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:02:55 Like, there's no harm, no foul in it, and you're not in trouble, um, that's what I really love, is when people would start to kind of say like, "20 minutes. I was triggered for 20 minutes, not four days, three days."

Lewis Howes 1:03:06 Mm-hmm. That's great. Um, I have a couple final questions for you.

Patrick Teahan 1:03:12 Sure.

Lewis Howes 1:03:12 How can, how can childhood trauma affect someone's ability to manifest and create the life they want?

Patrick Teahan 1:03:19 Hmm. Um, it... When I... I often had this analogy at the end of that group that I did. I was at sea level with the rest of the world, meaning I wasn't drowning in the deep end of the pool, flailing around, but not... I had so much shame I couldn't ask for help. Do you know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 1:03:38 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 1:03:38 I felt very s- Like, when, when we started the beginning, I felt very separated from the rest of the world.

Lewis Howes 1:03:43 Yes.

Patrick Teahan 1:03:43 And it's been a lifetime journey to, like, sort of like, as I'm sitting here with you, do you know what I mean? Like, there's a place for you in the world, Patrick, and you can say and, and do good things. So childhood trauma really separates people from that. But it feels really good to just know that you're just another bozo on the bus.

Lewis Howes 1:04:01 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 1:04:01 In a good way, but also that you, you have a seat at the table of, of opportunities that your inner child used to say, "Oh, that's not for me. That's for s- people who are smarter or brighter-"

Lewis Howes 1:04:14 Mm-hmm

Patrick Teahan 1:04:14 ... or whatever, you know?

Lewis Howes 1:04:15 Yes.

Patrick Teahan 1:04:16 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:04:17 So it makes you believe you have a seat at the table, which is good, too.

Patrick Teahan 1:04:19 Yep.

Lewis Howes 1:04:20 And what is the link between childhood trauma and imposter syndrome?

Patrick Teahan 1:04:25 Um, rooted in shame. Kind of the same thing. Imposter syndrome, it's often, I think... You know the Radiohead song Creep? You know?

Lewis Howes 1:04:32 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:04:32 "I'm a creep."

Lewis Howes 1:04:33 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:04:33 "I don't belong here."

Lewis Howes 1:04:34 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:04:34 That really kind of s- is like, you, you... We identify with that song so much because, uh, I just picture a guy on the date with a beautiful woman or something like that, and he's like, "I just don't belong here," you know? That's, to me, trauma. Imposter syndrome is just really kind of where the inner child is sort of saying, "See? I don't belong here." And what I tell clients when I was practicing about if they were gonna be about to join a group, I was sort of saying, "Pay attention to what your inner child says in the first group," because usually the inner child says, "I'm not messed up enough to be here," or, "I'm too messed up to be here."

Lewis Howes 1:05:11 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 1:05:11 Meaning they will find ways to say, "That's for other people. I don't belong here. I'm not good-looking enough, smart enough, or whatever. I don't come from the right pedigree," you know what I mean? Or whatever. But, like, I grew up in bars. Do you know what I mean? And I, I lived that way my whole life of just f- sort of hiding and masking and-

Lewis Howes 1:05:31 Mm

Patrick Teahan 1:05:31 ... I don't belong here, that kind of a thing. Or just trying to pretend that I belong here when I really didn't.

Lewis Howes 1:05:36 Right.

Patrick Teahan 1:05:36 So when you really feel in your core, not from a narcissistic place or an egoic, egoic place, that you are just a person in the world afforded the same things. I mean, there's also privilege wrapped up in that, so it's complicated for other people as well. But that's kind of like what I think about it, that you... It's a, and it's a beautiful arrival when you're like-

Lewis Howes 1:05:57 Mm

Patrick Teahan 1:05:57 ... I deserve this job. Do you know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 1:05:58 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:05:58 Like, I'm capable. I'm... You know what I mean? I, I nailed the interview or whatever. But the inner child used to sort of say, "They didn't like me. They didn't, they didn't make eye contact."

Lewis Howes 1:06:07 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:06:08 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:06:08 Right. Exactly. Like you said, we, um... What was the quote you said? We look at the present through the lens of our childhood.

Patrick Teahan 1:06:16 That's Amanda.

Lewis Howes 1:06:17 Yeah, this was your mentor?

Patrick Teahan 1:06:18 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:06:18 Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:06:19 Yes.

Lewis Howes 1:06:20 Um...

Patrick Teahan 1:06:21 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:06:22 I've got, uh, a couple final questions again for you.

Patrick Teahan 1:06:25 Sure.

Lewis Howes 1:06:25 But I want people to, to check you out on social media and your website.

Patrick Teahan 1:06:28 Mm-hmm.

Lewis Howes 1:06:28 PatrickTeahan.com. They can get more information. Also, you have a great YouTube channel with a lot of great content they can check out as well.

Patrick Teahan 1:06:36 Yep.

Lewis Howes 1:06:36 Patrick Teahan Official on social media, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok. And again, your, your YouTube's been a really helpful resource for so many people. So I wanna acknowledge you for, man, the, the trauma that you've been through, but also turning that into a healing journey, and the lessons you've learned on how to share this with others who've gone through similar things, or less or worse things than you, on how to interpret these things, heal these things, and live a better life. So I wanna acknowledge you for the work that you're doing and-

Patrick Teahan 1:07:04 Thank you

Lewis Howes 1:07:05 ... and all the content you share as well.

Patrick Teahan 1:07:06 Thank you very much.

Lewis Howes 1:07:07 Of course.

Patrick Teahan 1:07:08 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:07:08 This is, uh, a question I ask everyone towards the end, Patrick. It's called the three truths. So imagine hypothetically-

Patrick Teahan 1:07:14 Mm-hmm

Lewis Howes 1:07:14 ... you get to live as long as you want, but it's your last day on this earth, and you get to create- Anything you want from this moment until that last day, bef- whatever reason in this hypothetical question-

Patrick Teahan 1:07:25 Yeah

Lewis Howes 1:07:25 ... you have to take all of your work with you. This episode's gone. Your videos are gone. Books you create, gone from the world.

Patrick Teahan 1:07:32 Okay. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:07:32 But on your last day, you get to leave behind three things that you know to be true, three lessons that you would share with the world.

Patrick Teahan 1:07:39 Wow.

Lewis Howes 1:07:39 I call it three truths.

Patrick Teahan 1:07:40 Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:07:40 What would those things be for you?

Patrick Teahan 1:07:43 I think the, the thing that I said earlier about tenderness-

Lewis Howes 1:07:48 Uh-huh

Patrick Teahan 1:07:48 ... about really being able to sort of, um, for everybody out there to know that they were just, like, a beautiful spark and a good kid, like what you see in your own daughter. You know what I mean? Sort of like when you see that innocence and whatever because it's sort of like everything kind of is dialed into that. Do you know what I mean? Like, that we... If we can sort of lean into that, that would be one thing.

Lewis Howes 1:08:11 Mm-hmm.

Patrick Teahan 1:08:14 Um, another lesson would be... [laughs] This is kinda funny. Um, when I was 13 years old and having a strategy and trying to cope with things, um, I grew up with alcoholics, but I learned something from alcoholics, and that is this kind of like, "I'll try it."

Lewis Howes 1:08:30 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 1:08:31 And in a way, like, I had that same attitude, whether it was, like, a, a bong hit or acid or drinking in the woods or whatever.

Lewis Howes 1:08:38 Uh-huh.

Patrick Teahan 1:08:38 But that same energy was sort of like, "I'll try undergraduate." You know what I mean? Like, "I'll apply for this job." Um, so there is... You know, it's not like you can wait until you feel like you can take a risk. You just have to sort of-

Lewis Howes 1:08:56 Mm-hmm

Patrick Teahan 1:08:56 ... throw something against a wall, and even if you look foolish, is being able to do that, and that's something I, I weirdly feel grateful for the trauma that I went through.

Lewis Howes 1:09:05 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 1:09:05 It's just, "Yeah, I'll try anything," you know? [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:09:07 Yeah. [laughs]

Patrick Teahan 1:09:08 You know, whether that was, like, when the therapist was like, you know, you know, a few years later was like, "Do you wanna try..." You know, when I'm, when I'm 14, "Do you wanna try blotter acid?" I'm like, "Yeah."

Lewis Howes 1:09:14 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 1:09:15 You know, when the therapist is like, "You wanna do a three-and-a-half year childhood trauma?" "Yeah, why not?" [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:09:18 Yeah, try it out. Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:09:19 [laughs]

Lewis Howes 1:09:20 Okay. That's the second thing.

Patrick Teahan 1:09:22 Um, and I'm big on this, and I think in social media, I think social media does things to us that is dark.

Lewis Howes 1:09:29 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 1:09:30 And in a way, I would... I want childhood trauma survivors, and they may not be ready, which I get. I wasn't ready. I was not ready to hear things like positivity. I was not ready to hear things like, um, energy work or, or, or spirituality. There was... I had such a reaction to that stuff for many different reasons. But what I'm trying to say is, like, and I don't think it lands well, but I want childhood trauma survivors to look for the good in humanity in a way because to their experience and their right, humanity got ruined. Trust in people and that kind of a thing. I think social media really amps that up with the way that we go after people, and sometimes we have the... You know, it's good to go after people or whatever. But it's a device that it becomes entertainment for the downfall of humanity-

Lewis Howes 1:10:21 Mm

Patrick Teahan 1:10:22 ... where I want people to sort of, you know, look, look around for people's smiles, as goofy as that sound. You know, look around for the nice inter- I was walking out of Starbucks right out of here, and there was this, like, inter- interchange of this woman coming in and I was coming out, and she held the door. She was just, "Sir." You know, it was really, like, whimsical. It was, like, really fun kind of a thing. You know what I mean? Like, I love for that. I love that.

Lewis Howes 1:10:44 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 1:10:44 I love seeing families out there enjoying each other.

Lewis Howes 1:10:47 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:10:47 So do you know what I mean?

Lewis Howes 1:10:49 Yeah.

Patrick Teahan 1:10:49 But, like, when I was really wounded, that was just, like, evidence that I couldn't have that or something like that.

Lewis Howes 1:10:56 Right.

Patrick Teahan 1:10:56 So-

Lewis Howes 1:10:56 Wow

Patrick Teahan 1:10:57 ... I want people to lean into it and force themselves a little bit. Yeah.

Lewis Howes 1:10:59 That's beautiful. And Patrick, the final question, what's your definition of greatness?

Patrick Teahan 1:11:04 Um, the definition of greatness is not just knowing that your parents were wrong about you, however that looks, but surpassing how you feel about you.

Lewis Howes 1:11:20 Mm.

Patrick Teahan 1:11:22 So greatness... You know what I mean? Like, there... The work that I do is I love. I love sitting with you. I love talking about this stuff, but my real joy comes from, again, knowing that I was a good kid.

Lewis Howes 1:11:34 Mm. That's beautiful. Patrick, thank you so much.

Patrick Teahan 1:11:37 Thank you.

Lewis Howes 1:11:38 Powerful.

Patrick Teahan 1:11:39 If you wish to lean into that, you can begin to uncover your patterns, and you can begin to look at the child-parent relationship, the attachment, the, the dynamics that show up, and undo the dysfunction. And then you can, if you want to lean in, to the transcendent level