By playing, you agree to uListen's Terms and Privacy Policy and YouTube's Terms of Service.

The Red Flags You Keep Ignoring! (Don’t Let Men Treat You Like This!!) - Sadia Khan & Matthew Hussey

Welcome back to The School of Greatness! We have a very special episode for you today.

Lewis HoweshostMatthew HusseyguestSadia Khanguest

Jun 3, 202453mWatch on YouTube

Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.

Great conversations run long. Their best ideas don't have to.

uListen is free on iPhone, iPad, Android, Chrome, and Claude.

See how

Transcript

55 min read · 11,166 words

0:00 – 2:19
Intro
1. LHLewis Howes
  I'm so excited because this is a first on The School of Greatness.
2. MHMatthew Hussey
  Sadia, this is what he brought us here for.
3. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
4. MHMatthew Hussey
  What do you think he set this up for? [laughs]
5. LHLewis Howes
  All right, you guys ready?
6. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
7. LHLewis Howes
  We have the inspiring Sadia Khan in the house, who is an incredible-
8. SKSadia Khan
  Psychologist and dating coach One of the best psychologists in the game, Sadia Khan
9. LHLewis Howes
  And we have Matthew Hussey. Matthew Hussey is a New York Times bestselling author, speaker-
10. SKSadia Khan
  Dating and relationships expert and coach Matthew Hussey
11. LHLewis Howes
  When someone is playing a game, either texting or on dates, what is that saying about them?
12. SKSadia Khan
  They're entering a relationship with a desire to preserve their ego rather than truly connect with that person.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Wow, that's interesting.
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  I can not text you back for three days, and if you're the person who buys into the illusion that that must make me more valuable, then I can raise my value simply by ignoring you for three days.
15. SKSadia Khan
  So then it's self-preservation, but in the process it's self-destruction.
16. LHLewis Howes
  Wow. Okay.
17. MHMatthew Hussey
  For you, it's that men want connection, but women are so jaded at this point that-
18. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... they're not offering it.
20. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  I have to say-
22. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... that feels like the vast minority of women.
24. SKSadia Khan
  What you're really signaling is, "I'm so desperate to be loved that I'll push it away and make you think that I don't want it."
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  I truly believe in my bones the more in life you accept yourself-
26. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... and every part of yourself, you see more people as wonderful, not less.
28. LHLewis Howes
  Welcome back, everyone, of The School of Greatness. Very excited about this special episode. We have two relationship experts and coaches in the house today. We have Sadia Khan and we have Matthew Hussey. Sadia's a psychologist and a relationship coach that works with people all over the world with well over 100 million views on your videos. Matthew Hussey, over a half a billion views on his videos, New York Time bestselling author. And, um, both of them, you both help people navigate relationships, relationship dynamics, social human dynamics, dating scene, people in relationships, going through breakups. So we're gonna talk about a lot of these different things today, and I'm so excited because this is a first on The School of Greatness. So thank you both for being here. I've known you both for a while.
29. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
30. LHLewis Howes
  I know personal things about both of you-
2:19 – 4:30
The Phenomenon of Sabotaging Green Flags in Relationships
1. LHLewis Howes
  um, I'm excited to see what unfolds here today. This first conversation is gonna be talking about when you're single or dating.
2. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
3. LHLewis Howes
  And there's a lot of talk about red flags. You see this almost every title of every video right now, what are the red flags? And what I wanna ask you guys first is about the green flags, and why do people tend to sabotage when they actually have green flags in front of them with a person they're dating, experiencing, getting to know? Why do some people tend to sabotage that when they actually have someone who's not toxic in front of them? And I'll, and I'll start it with the ladies first.
4. SKSadia Khan
  [laughs]
5. LHLewis Howes
  Um, that when, when you see that or when someone sees that, I don't know if you have girlfriends who are like, "Yeah, he was like just a great guy, but I sabotaged it."
6. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
7. LHLewis Howes
  Why does that happen for men or women? Is it because they're emotionally unavailable? Is it because they've never seen someone in a healthy relationship with themself before? Why would you say?
8. SKSadia Khan
  I would say that their barrier to intimacy has become their self-esteem. Um, unfortunately for them, and it happens to a lot of people, they have developed a core belief about themselves, either through their childhood or through adult relationships, where they believe that love should be a struggle, it should be difficult, and it shouldn't be smooth sailing. And when it is smooth and somebody does show them love and compassion, because they don't have love and compassion for themselves, they start to question the judgment of the person who is showing them love, and they start to think there's something wrong in that person. And the smoothness that they acquire in the relationship is something that they're just not used to, and they have attributed love to being chaotic and difficult, turbulent. When it's not like that, they just think that they haven't got an attachment. They think, "In order for me to be loved, I'm... Should be obsessing over them. I should be wondering what they're doing. I should be checking their social media. I should be anxious." When the anxiety is stripped of love, they think it's deprived of its fundamental ingredient, when really it's being infused with peace, which they're just not used to.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Wow, that's interesting. I love that we started with this right now. I, I don't know if that's something that you would relate to or if you agree with, or you think there's something else to add there.
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  No, I, I think it comes from different places. It... Familiarity is, i-
4:30 – 6:57
The Fear of the Unknown
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  you know, it drives us so often in life, and familiarity doesn't really care whether something is good or bad.
2. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  Just that it's known. And I... Like, I never used to... I remember in my 20s, I never used to understand what people meant when they said, like, fear of success, 'cause I was like, "Why would anyone be afraid of success?" And then I realized I probably was afraid of success. Like, it, it... Any time things got too hot, any time, like, I felt like everything was a runaway train, I would find myself getting nervous. And why was I getting nervous? Well, because it was just unknown. It was like I'd never, I'd never gone that far before. I'd never been there. And unknown territory is just unknown territory. When things feel unfamiliar, we, we get afraid of them. They feel disconcerting. They can feel boring.
4. LHLewis Howes
  Mm-hmm.
5. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  Um, strange. And so it's... Our, our body has a way of searching for, for what is familiar. I, I also think it shouldn't be discounted that there are certain feelings that just feel good.
7. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
8. LHLewis Howes
  What are those feelings?
9. MHMatthew Hussey
  Well, it's like eating pizza.
10. SKSadia Khan
  [laughs]
11. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  Like, eating, you know, like, eating pizza does feel good.
13. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
14. LHLewis Howes
  It's not good for you.
15. SKSadia Khan
  Even though it's bad for you, yeah.
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  Right?
17. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  There, there is something it gives. There's something that foods that are bad for you or substances that are bad for you give you. There is a feeling that i- is quite addictive, and you wanna chase it. And of course a lot of us pay the price over time for chasing those things.
20. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  And I think sometimes we have to acknowledge that there are certain kinds of people- That feel good
22. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  In the very beginning
24. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  There is a certain kind of charm, there is a certain kind of charisma that feels really good.
26. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah, inconsistency is addictive. Yeah.
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  Inconsistency and even just like a s- kind of superficial charm can be exciting.
28. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
29. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
30. MHMatthew Hussey
  And someone, someone's at a t- dinner table and they tell you great stories and they captivate you, and there is a kind of like, you almost want to be-
6:57 – 9:14
The Power of Appearance and Sexual Gratification
1. SKSadia Khan
  when they find-
2. LHLewis Howes
  Men
3. SKSadia Khan
  ... men. When they find themselves in emotionally abusive situations it's because they've placed all of their satisfaction in her appearance and the sexual gratification they receive. And it's almost like a shortcut to an ego boost, and they've placed that on a pedestal, and that becomes their conflict resolution is sex. It becomes their form of status is that she gives them that appearance when they walk around. They don't look for somebody on the same level of them in terms of appearance. They shoot above their shot. They go a bit higher than what they should be going for, and as a result, they become like a slave and submissive to her behavior simply because she possesses that sexual quality that they've been craving for a really long time.
4. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
5. SKSadia Khan
  Particularly if they're a man who haven't had access to women throughout their childhood and throughout their life. And so when they do meet a beautiful girl, they allow her beauty to determine their attachment rather than her character, and that becomes very addictive from a male gaze in my experience. And I don't know as to men, but does sex-
6. LHLewis Howes
  I mean, that's-
7. SKSadia Khan
  ... have that much of a power over them where they can blur their vision on all other characteristics?
8. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs] I hate to say this, but I'm guilty of this in my past.
9. SKSadia Khan
  [laughs] It happens?
10. LHLewis Howes
  And, well, I mean-
11. SKSadia Khan
  Oh, yeah
12. LHLewis Howes
  ... it, it's, it's blinding for a period of time-
13. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
14. LHLewis Howes
  ... until it isn't.
15. SKSadia Khan
  Right.
16. LHLewis Howes
  So it, it... And when you think that the character is also there-
17. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
18. LHLewis Howes
  ... then you're like, "Wow, this is unbelievable."
19. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
20. LHLewis Howes
  But then, you know, I personally, you know, just experience in my past, I was kinda blinded by that. The beauty and the sexual attraction.
21. SKSadia Khan
  Mm.
22. LHLewis Howes
  And then when I realized that certain values weren't consistent with words-
23. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
24. LHLewis Howes
  ... they weren't matching, over time you get disinterested in the beauty.
25. SKSadia Khan
  Mm.
26. LHLewis Howes
  You're like, "Okay, well, this is exhausting."
27. SKSadia Khan
  Does, does it take something to snap men out of that when they're in that in- kind of intoxicated state?
28. LHLewis Howes
  Pain.
29. SKSadia Khan
  Pain. [laughs]
30. LHLewis Howes
  Suffering. Heartbreak.
9:14 – 11:33
The Power of Sexual Connection and Beauty
1. LHLewis Howes
  out of a wound.
2. SKSadia Khan
  Mm.
3. LHLewis Howes
  Everything you were saying was like speaking to my like wounded child.
4. SKSadia Khan
  [laughs]
5. LHLewis Howes
  Was like, okay, yeah, no girls liked me when I was younger. You know, I didn't have any attention.
6. SKSadia Khan
  Did you suffer with that? Because you were an athlete, no?
7. LHLewis Howes
  You know, when I was in my teens it, it changed.
8. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
9. LHLewis Howes
  When I was younger it was like you didn't get the attention.
10. SKSadia Khan
  Right.
11. LHLewis Howes
  So when, when I had the w- when I was [smacks lips] choosing based out of a wounded me-
12. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
13. LHLewis Howes
  ... it was like, oh, okay, here's this beautiful opportunity or this experience or whatever it might be.
14. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
15. LHLewis Howes
  And that was captivating in some ways.
16. SKSadia Khan
  Right.
17. LHLewis Howes
  Right? That was, uh, pulling me in.
18. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Drawing me in. So I-
20. SKSadia Khan
  And it made you forgive other unacceptable behavior in the moment?
21. LHLewis Howes
  In the moment-
22. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
23. LHLewis Howes
  ... but then you, you know, after a period of time it was like, okay, I, you wake up.
24. SKSadia Khan
  Okay.
25. LHLewis Howes
  I woke up.
26. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
27. LHLewis Howes
  And I think, um, those lessons allowed me to have wisdom.
28. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
29. LHLewis Howes
  And being like, okay, well, that's not really everything. You know?
30. SKSadia Khan
  Okay.
11:33 – 13:50
Women's Emotional Addictions in Dating
1. LHLewis Howes
  don't have sex?" And I would want everyone to ask themselves the question, "If I did not have sex with the person I'm dating right now-
2. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
3. LHLewis Howes
  ... would I wanna be with them?"
4. SKSadia Khan
  Exactly.
5. LHLewis Howes
  Or would it be too much stress and tr- trouble?
6. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah. Would I be addicted to them?
7. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah. Would I st-
8. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah. Yeah.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, exactly. Out of the... What do, what do you see women-
10. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
11. LHLewis Howes
  ... um, in your perspective struggling with in terms of the emotional addictions in dating or in relationship patterns? What is that? Is it sex chemistry or are you seeing something else with the women you're working with?
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  I was gonna say, I feel like you guys are giving women too much credit.
13. SKSadia Khan
  [laughs]
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  You're, you're, you're letting them off a little lightly here.
15. SKSadia Khan
  It happens and I don't get s- access as much, uh, to the female perspective.
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah.
17. SKSadia Khan
  And it's the same kind of you would imagine?
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah, I don't think there's... I, I, I, I'm not seeing a huge difference between men and women in this department at all.
19. SKSadia Khan
  Oh, wow.
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  You know, I think that-
21. SKSadia Khan
  Interesting
22. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... w- women Women get attracted sexually, they get attracted to someone's looks
23. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
24. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... to, you know, how it feel-
25. LHLewis Howes
  Is it more the sexual or the-
26. SKSadia Khan
  Are they in love?
27. LHLewis Howes
  ... or the, or the material or the status that women are attracted to? Like, here's a beautiful, handsome man, a sexy man, or is it more, "Oh, he's got status and money, and that makes him sexy"?
28. MHMatthew Hussey
  I think the, the myth is that it's just all women go around looking for status and money.
29. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
30. MHMatthew Hussey
  And that, you know, when they see status walk into a room, they're like, "Yes, please." And if that were true, then every-
13:50 – 16:19
The Myth of Money and Status in Men and Women's Attraction
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  think there is this myth among men that all our problems will be figured out if we could just make enough money and if we could just get enough status, and I think there's this myth among women that, uh, uh, or about women that they're not interest- like, they're not driven in by charisma and looks and-
2. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... sexiness and that, it, you know, they don't care about those. Men are superficial. They care about those things.
4. SKSadia Khan
  [laughs]
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  Women don't care about those things. Not my experience. My experience of, of women is that they're just as, uh, interested in all of those superficial things that can lure any of us away from deeper values or how someone treats us or-
6. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
7. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... um, and it's not to say that it's, there's not, there's not an appeal for some people to someone who's got their life under control, but, um, but no, I don't, I don't think we should let women off so lightly when it comes to being attracted to the superficial.
8. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Interesting. Now, you w- uh, Sadia, you've said that you work mostly with men-
10. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
11. LHLewis Howes
  ... or more men seem to watch your content.
12. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
13. LHLewis Howes
  And you work one-on-one with more men.
14. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
15. LHLewis Howes
  Matthew, you, you've leaned more towards working with women, your content towards women, although both of you guys work with-
16. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
17. LHLewis Howes
  ... you know, any human being in all genders. Um, but I'm curious, Matthew, with you, when a woman has gone through your workshop or maybe watched your content or, you know, been a part of your community for a while, and then they say, "Okay, I'm ready to go out there and meet a guy," and there seems like a really healthy, good, kind, compassionate, you know, value-driven, spiritual, you know, healthy, conscious man in front of me, and for whatever reason she's unable to be excited about that. What is that saying about that woman in your mind if she is unable to lean into the green flags of a healthy potential mate in front of her? Does she still need work to do? Is she just not a- emotionally available herself? What does she need to start the process of doing so when she sees someone who's healthy, she can be actually be attracted to them and work towards building a relationship?
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  I think it's usually a sign that for, for anyone, m- men or women alike, that we're not, we're not truly putting our wellbeing first. We're, we're not... We, we, we think the source of our worth is outside of us.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  Um, and we see someone who looks like the kind of equivalent of a VIP nightclub or a VIP wait list, and we th- you know, it's, uh, there
16:19 – 18:52
The Illusion of Value in Love and Dating
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  is an instinct. There is an instinct we all have. You walk past 10 restaurants, and one of them's super busy, and they say, "We, we can see you in three hours." [laughs]
2. SKSadia Khan
  [laughs]
3. LHLewis Howes
  We're not available.
4. MHMatthew Hussey
  There's an, there's, there's an instinct that says that, you know, this like, "Maybe this is the one I wanna eat at." You might have passed 10 places already, but the one with the three-hour wait list, there's something about that that makes us go, "M- maybe, well, maybe we can hang around for three hours. Maybe it is that good." And the problem is that in, in love and dating, the people who make it feel like there's a three-hour wait list or, or a six-month wait list or that, that have all the options in the world, they give the impression of being the best meal in town.
5. LHLewis Howes
  Mm. Interesting.
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  But it doesn't necessarily add up. I- i- there's a, there's a lot of ways to create that illusion.
7. SKSadia Khan
  Mm.
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  I could not text you back for three days, and, and if you're the person who buys into the illusion that if I'm inconsistent with my communication, that must make me more valuable, then I can raise my value not by being any more valuable in real terms, but simply by ignoring you for three days. It requires zero calories-
9. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... for me to make myself more valuable in the eyes of someone who's chasing that kind of value.
11. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  And so, uh-
13. LHLewis Howes
  Or someone who might be wounded and needs that validation
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... or is coming from that place of, of their model for love is that it is inconsistent, is that it has to be fought for tooth and nail, is that scraps is, is all you can really expect.
15. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  And, and also, you know, again, to, to ta- talk about those feelings that we get in certain situations, if there's someone whose value we've started to raise in our minds because they've made themselves unavailable, which is a very common instinct. It's a very bad instinct-
17. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... but it's a very common one, that someone's less available, so I start to attribute more value to them. Or if we attribute more valuable, more value to them when they become unavailable, that we now get anxious because we really wanna secure them 'cause they're valuable. And we sit there wondering, "How do I secure them? How do I secure them? How do I secure them?" Ruminating, obsessing. Even ruminating is a form of investment.
19. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  Right?
21. LHLewis Howes
  It is.
22. MHMatthew Hussey
  'Cause the moment wha- if you're thinking about how to solve a problem nonstop, the problem feels like it's really important. You're investing in a person. Even though you're not with them, you're investing in them in your mind. So at the moment, like
18:52 – 21:19
The Rush of Receiving a Message
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  five days later, after all of that work you've been doing, and all of that obsession, and all of that fear, and all of that anxiety, when you get a message from them, it can be next to nothing. It can be, "What's up?"
2. SKSadia Khan
  [laughs]
3. LHLewis Howes
  And you've got all this adrenaline and this rush.
4. MHMatthew Hussey
  And, and you've been trying to figure out-
5. LHLewis Howes
  [laughs]
6. SKSadia Khan
  [laughs]
7. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... how to solve this riddle of getting them back into your life, and you get a two-sen- a two-word message.
8. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
9. MHMatthew Hussey
  It feels like the most important thing in the world. And of course, when you get that rush of blood to the head, you, uh, how can it not feel kind of euphoric?
10. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
11. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  How can it not give you an extraordinary feeling? And when you get that extraordinary feeling and those chemicals are released, you go, "Oh my God, I feel so strongly for this person."
13. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  But you don't feel strongly for this person, you feel strongly for the dynamic.
15. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
16. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
17. MHMatthew Hussey
  There's a big difference between those two things.
18. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  So, you know, we, we... It's about, what am I chasing here? Am I chasing a feeling? Am I chasing an idea of value? And what is that value based on?
20. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  Is it based on someone I think is just rare and difficult to get? Or is value based on how great of a person someone is in my life, how much they actually invest in me, what kind of teammate they are, what kind of energy they are? It, you know, that, if we start valuing that more, which deep down derives from us valuing ourselves more, because you don't... If you, if you don't value yourself and you just value a feeling, well, you may as well do a bunch of drugs all day.
22. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
23. LHLewis Howes
  No.
24. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  Right? 'Cause you just, that's... It's not, drugs might hurt me, but I'm valuing the feeling, not myself. If I value myself, then I think, "What do I need to give myself in order to feel better?" That's a much more conscious and intentional path to take. It's harder-
26. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... but it's, it, it's somewhere that leads somewhere much happier. I sometimes, I've had situations, uh, you know, you can take it outside the realm of love life. I've had situation in, uh, situations in business or work where, you know, let's say someone asks me to do their TV show or their podcast, and let's say it's just something I've always wanted to do.
28. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
29. MHMatthew Hussey
  Like, I've always wanted to go on this show. There is an instinct when you get that email that says, "Call them right now."
30. SKSadia Khan
  [laughs]
21:19 – 23:50
Deciding your relationship with opportunities in life
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  There's that instinct. And, you know, if that opportunity goes away because you didn't do it tomorrow, there's a feeling in us that beats ourselves up and says, "See? I blew it." But it was never yours.
2. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  It was a fly by night, like drive by superficial opportunity. If it can't wait a day for you to email back, and a couple of weeks for you to book it in-
4. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... then you have to decide what your relationship is with opportunities in general.
6. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
7. MHMatthew Hussey
  Like, do I wanna have that relationship with an opportunity, where the moment an opportunity comes through the door, I am that opportunity's hostage?
8. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
9. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  Is that the relationship I wanna have with opportunity in my life, whether it's opportunity in business, whether it's opportunity in love? And we have to make that decision. And I got to a point in my life, and I, it's not I never get, like, activated in that way, 'cause something big can come through and I'll go... I'll feel myself go into that place. But these days I'm like, "What relationship do I wanna have with opportunities in my life?"
11. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  Well, I'm, I'm never gonna be the hostage to an opportunity.
13. LHLewis Howes
  That's good.
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  So if it comes through and it happens organically through just normal communication, a normal cadence in a consistent way, and it happens, then wonderful. If it, if it doesn't, then frankly I don't, I don't wanna know.
15. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
16. SKSadia Khan
  Well-
17. LHLewis Howes
  Interesting
18. SKSadia Khan
  ... amazing.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Um, I wanted to ask a follow-up on emotional availability, and it seems like women used to be more in society emotionally available-
20. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
21. LHLewis Howes
  ... in, I guess, life, and wanting more relationship, emotionally available, and needing more from a man. But I'm curious today from both of your perspectives, who are more emotionally available today? Is it men or women? What do you think?
22. SKSadia Khan
  I think it's tricky to answer, because the men I work with, the majority of the time they're actually looking for something stable, and they can't seem to access it with the women in this day and age. And, um, I don't know if what's happened is because hookup culture has made women immune to connection now. They're kinda used to men just coming and leaving, and not calling them, and not labeling it, that they've almost come in it, come into dating with that expectation. And when women lose the kind of driving force of the connection, men don't know how to lead emotional connection.
23. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
24. SKSadia Khan
  So as a result, we've got endless broken relationships occurring. So I don't know if women are, are breaking the connection because they
23:50 – 25:53
The Impact of Dating Apps on Relationships
1. SKSadia Khan
  want to or because they've been conditioned to because of Tinder and Bumble, which has just created a bunch of people who a- haven't really got the skills to maintain long-lasting connections, or finding each other and then breaking up with each other, finding each other and breaking up with each other. I've had clients say to me, "I met this beautiful girl, and when I m- met her and we hooked up, she was like, 'You can go now if you want. I know you wanna go home.'" And he said, "No, I wanna get to know you." But she was so used to men being in that state with her that they've taken relationships and seen them as kind of vacations from their real world, and they all go back to their real world once the weekend is over. So I think it's more society has conditioned people to not look for a connection. And because men tend to place the s- acceleration of connection in the women's hands, and they're so used to it not being that direction, they've lost control of that and it's now kind of fizzling out for both genders.
2. LHLewis Howes
  Interesting. Do you feel like people actually want to be in a long-term relationship, a committed relationship, or do they want to just have the feeling of a relationship for a weekend-
3. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
4. LHLewis Howes
  ... and be able to have it with multiple people, but never fully go deep with people?
5. SKSadia Khan
  It depends what she values in her life. If, uh, in this day and age, you can be 22 up until 42, so you can still have vacations whenever you want, you can still kind of live an Instagram kind of lifestyle, you can still go out with your friends. There's no kind of shame in being a woman who's a bit older, not married, no kids. You can still enjoy your life. So if that's something, if she values independence, and she values freedom, then, uh, she's not going to be looking for connection.
6. LHLewis Howes
  Interesting.
7. SKSadia Khan
  She's gonna place connection beneath what she values in life, and that's men and women. I would say that applies to both. But if somebody values and recognizes that r- their root of happiness is their relationships, and their true happiness comes from when they don't need external stimulation, and they don't need vacations, and they don't need all of this, they actually want someone that they can stay home and get bored and do nothing with, if that's what they value in life, that's, it will depend on what they value. And where- what they value will depend on what they've experienced aro- the most around them. So if they've experienced people
25:53 – 28:11
Male Emotional Unavailability and Women's Reactions
1. SKSadia Khan
  showing them c- uh, investment, they'll probably, um, value connection more. But if they've experienced being somebody's short-term filling every weekend, they'll start to get immune to connection and invested in stimulation instead.
2. LHLewis Howes
  Interesting.
3. SKSadia Khan
  Or-
4. LHLewis Howes
  Have you... What have you noticed or seen around this?
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  I, like, like, I don't know. I find it hard to... The, so you're, for you it's that men want connection, but women are so jaded at this point that-
6. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
7. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... they're not offering it.
8. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah. I feel like they now just go into it with a mentality that this man is probably going to be seeing other girls. He's probably gonna be liking a bunch of pictures. He's probably gonna be dating loads of girls on Tinder. I'm gonna catch his dating profile still be active. So instead of being the idiot in this situation, I'm gonna take control, and I'm going to replicate his behavior. And as a result, they're almost like cheat first before being cheated on, and that's become the mentality, and I think social media has had an impact on that as well. But it's almost like women are like, "I'm no longer being the girl that cries over a cheating boyfriend."
9. MHMatthew Hussey
  Mm.
10. SKSadia Khan
  "I'd rather be the one that has a backup boyfriend than be on the receiving end of this humiliation."
11. MHMatthew Hussey
  I have to say-
12. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
13. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... it's, it's, that feels like the vast minority of women.
14. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah. And I might be b- here's where I might be on this, uh, jaded end. Because I get the jaded men-
15. MHMatthew Hussey
  Mm
16. SKSadia Khan
  ... who've experienced those women, I probably lack access to the ones that are actually trying to just build a nice, healthy connection.
17. MHMatthew Hussey
  It also feels like an interesting place to kind of pinpoint the issue, because I would say that that, even if what you said is true for the majority of women, which I think is the majority of women are actually quite the opposite of that.
18. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  That the, the issue is, would st- I would still circle back to the issue as one of male unoi- uh, emotional unavailability.
20. SKSadia Khan
  Okay.
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  'Cause the, 'cause the, what we're saying is that there's so many emo- like, I, I'm not even sure I subscribe to this, but w- in that theory, there's so many emotionally unavailable men-
22. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... that they've managed to make the entire population of women cynical-
24. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... to the point where they're now going, "God, like, I'm so, I so-"
26. SKSadia Khan
  Oh, well-
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  "... don't believe in the idea-"
28. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
29. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... "of a relationship anymore that I'm just gonna mirror that behavior."
30. LHLewis Howes
  Do you think men-
28:11 – 30:17
The Popular Kids Making Everyone Look Bad
1. SKSadia Khan
  I would say that the tiny minority of men that most women want are the ones that because of the alternatives and the, uh, options, they lack the investment. And as a result, the women's experience is all men are like this, but there's so many nice men, just like there's so many nice women. But people aren't giving those people as much of, as much of a chance. So it's almost like the popular kids in school are making the whole school look bad.
2. MHMatthew Hussey
  But ar- aren't men doing the same thing?
3. SKSadia Khan
  Absolutely. I would agree 100%. Yeah.
4. MHMatthew Hussey
  'Cause men, 'cause if, if women are going for the top-
5. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... 1% of men, men are going for the top 1% of women.
7. SKSadia Khan
  Absolutely.
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  And both are, both are gonna have a harder time being emotionally available than other people-
9. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... because that's just a natural kind of, well, when you have choice, and a lot of it-
11. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... then you're naturally gonna be more difficult for so-
13. SKSadia Khan
  And, and-
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  And especially if, you know, you have 90% of people chasing after you. That's gonna be a harder place to be available. So I just don't know, I don't know that I see a difference between the sexes when it comes to that.
15. SKSadia Khan
  The only thing I would say is, um, even with men, not only are the top 1% going for the top 1% of women, even the lower end, the bottom 1%, are still going for the top 1% through OnlyFans and pornography. And so, so they're s- kind of soothing their emotional unavailability through pseudo-relationships. So it's almost like, um, the mid-range is there, but they're usually spoken for. So women in the dating pool are either experienced the top 1% who have loads of options, or the real bottom that have very little, uh, options, but are so not used to human connection that they're a bit more addicted to pornography and video games. And that really-
16. LHLewis Howes
  The mid-range is more like they're already in committed relationships.
17. SKSadia Khan
  They're the hard ones-
18. LHLewis Howes
  They're-
19. SKSadia Khan
  ... to find.
20. LHLewis Howes
  They're, they're, yeah.
21. SKSadia Khan
  The ones with relationship skills. [laughs]
22. LHLewis Howes
  They're already in relationships. They already got-
23. SKSadia Khan
  The ones that are-
24. LHLewis Howes
  They got kids, they're married, they're...
25. SKSadia Khan
  Mm.
26. MHMatthew Hussey
  By that rationale, we're talking about 98% of-
27. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
28. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... men are emotionally available.
29. SKSadia Khan
  Mm. But you would say that's too-
30. LHLewis Howes
  Or, or not g- or they might be committed already.
30:17 – 32:41
The Importance of Height in Relationships
1. LHLewis Howes
  may not have maybe the financial-
2. SKSadia Khan
  Height, I think height is a huge one. I honestly, like if-
3. LHLewis Howes
  How big is height for women?
4. SKSadia Khan
  I would say-
5. LHLewis Howes
  Like, really though
6. SKSadia Khan
  ... it depends-
7. LHLewis Howes
  Are women that superficial to think that-
8. SKSadia Khan
  Sadly
9. LHLewis Howes
  ... height is that important for them?
10. SKSadia Khan
  S- depending on her height and her level of beauty. I would just say that, like, sometimes I meet men who are, like, 5'4", 5'3", and they'll say to me, "I really, really want a beautiful girl." In my personal experience with beautiful women, what happens with them is they assume every man's super tall 'cause that's all they've ever experienced. They don't know how to compromise on attractiveness because they've never really needed to.
11. MHMatthew Hussey
  Mm.
12. SKSadia Khan
  So they see the world through the lens of, of c- like, they didn't know men come in a different size. So they can be very shallow with that.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Interesting.
14. SKSadia Khan
  But even the l- I, unfortunately, I think height is to women what facial beauty is to men, so it kind of has that similar impact. It's not definite-
15. LHLewis Howes
  Interesting
16. SKSadia Khan
  ... but it has a similar impact.
17. LHLewis Howes
  I mean, you have a lot of women that come to your retreats, do they say height is a factor for them? Or they're, you know, are all women there that are just like, "Oh, I'll take a guy shorter than me and it's fine"?
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  I think, I mean, I tend to meet a lot of people who have reached a point in their lives where they're, they're bringing a kind of awareness to their love life, where they're saying, "I wanna meet someone. I'm not 22 years old and-
19. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
20. LHLewis Howes
  Right, right
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... showing up with this checklist of superficial things."
22. SKSadia Khan
  They're conscious about it
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  I'm, I'm looking for-
24. LHLewis Howes
  But now they're older, though, and they're like, "I can't find a guy. I'm willing to kind of spread my options-
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  Well, I think-
26. LHLewis Howes
  ... wider now."
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  I, I, I would say that we all get to that point where we go, "Are the things that I once chased really, do they matter? Do they make any difference to my actual quality of life in a relationship?"
28. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
29. MHMatthew Hussey
  Um, and you know, height is a interesting thing. If you're a very tall woman, then it's natural, I think, for a lot of women to want someone who's, uh, of their height or not drastically different in that sense. But you know, I think a lot of people just get to the point where they go, "This isn't, this isn't the defining factor anymore."
30. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
32:41 – 35:12
Emotionally Unavailable Women
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  to start to let go of some of those superficial factors. But I, I do, I do wanna just touch again on the, you know, talking about who's more emotionally unavailable because I do... My, my experience of women is that they really, um, they, they may, there certainly are a group of people on both sides who think they are emotionally available-
2. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... but are perhaps not.
4. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
5. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  Um, but I-
7. LHLewis Howes
  What, what makes them that if they think they are but they're not?
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  What makes them unavailable?
9. LHLewis Howes
  What makes them emotionally unavailable?
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  Oh, I think it could be any number of things. I think, you know, for some people it's they're terrified of, of r- just getting hurt, so the idea of, um, letting someone close enough to really hurt them is the scariest thing in the world.
11. LHLewis Howes
  They want love. They wanna feel seen, and acknowledged, and connected, but they're afraid of it at the same time.
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  You, y- well, they're afraid of the damage someone could do if they got in. And so for that kind of person, what they need is like a, a l- a level of safety-
13. LHLewis Howes
  Uh-huh
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... that is actually really hard for anyone to achieve. Because if I don't let you in, and I'm like, "I'm not gonna let you in until you make me feel really safe," but you don't, you know, y- I haven't really let you in enough for you to even feel that connected to me.
15. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  You know? Or by the way, something happens four weeks into knowing someone where they forget to ta- text you back for a night, which is human and happens, but for n- what was a mistake for you, for me is, like, an existential threat. Like, "Oh no, I've been getting attached to this person for the last four weeks. They now haven't texted me. They don't like me. What have I done here?" And then I say, "Well, f- uh, you know what? Screw this person. I'm not gonna text them back for the next three days."
17. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  You know? Like, they can... Now I'm gonna give them that medicine back.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  And it's not that this person's a bad person. It's just that they're so afraid-
21. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
22. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... that it's like, "I can't, I can't risk you doing the damage you can do, that's been done to me in the past, whether as a child or whether in a formative relationship. I can't risk you getting that close again." So that's a dis- desperate desire for love and connection, but it presents as emotional unavailability.
23. LHLewis Howes
  When someone is playing a game, either texting or on dates, and they're playing a game-
24. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
25. LHLewis Howes
  ... what is that saying about them if they're trying to play a game?
26. SKSadia Khan
  They're
35:12 – 37:11
The Destructive Cycle of Self-Preservation
1. SKSadia Khan
  entering relationship with a desire to preserve their ego rather than truly connect with that person. It's more important that they appear desirable than then they create something that is desirable between the two of them. So if it's a case of somebody hasn't texted me in a couple of days, I'm not gonna text them in a couple of days, but I am gonna post a really pretty picture on- online. Or if a man is like, "Oh, she didn't answer me back," or, "She d- didn't compliment me, no, I'm not gonna give her any compliments," what you're really signaling is, "I'm so desperate to be loved that I'll push it away and make you think that I don't want it just so then if you don't, if you reject me first, I can feel like I saved my soul by not investing too much." So then it's self-preservation, but in the process, it's self-destruction, uh, sadly. So and I've been there. We've all been there. I think we've all been there. We don't wanna look like the idiot. We don't wanna look needy. But I always just say to people that if in the process of communicating your needs you lose somebody or they think something less of you, you're just filtering out the wrong people anyway. The right person will appreciate the communication, they'll reciprocate the communication, and you'll build something. The wrong person will, you know, be scared or run away or whatever it is, but you don't want the wrong person anyway, so it's a good filtering process. Effective communication is great for filtering out the wrong people.
2. LHLewis Howes
  It's so interesting because, uh, you know, when I was starting to date Martha, my fiancee, like, just early, the first date I was just like, "I'm gonna share not all of me, but kind of all of me-
3. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
4. LHLewis Howes
  ... up front." And be-
5. SKSadia Khan
  No games.
6. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, no games. Just like, "This is who I am. This is my flaws. This is my mistakes. This is the things I'm working on. This is, you know, the things I'm good at." All these things.
7. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
8. LHLewis Howes
  And I, and I kinda was completely unattached to the result.
9. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
10. LHLewis Howes
  Like, if she likes me, cool. If she doesn't like me, at least she knows who I am.
11. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
12. LHLewis Howes
  And it was freeing. It, it felt freeing to be like, "Okay, this is me. I'm not playing any games." I was just like, "If you like me, cool. If you don't like me, cool."
13. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
14. LHLewis Howes
  And, and that, that gave me freedom to be myself, and I think it allowed me to see, does she really like me for kind of all of me, of what I'm able to show?
15. SKSadia Khan
  You weren't
37:11 – 39:42
Overcoming Relationship Game Playing
1. SKSadia Khan
  trying to impress her. You were trying to access a healthy relationship.
2. LHLewis Howes
  Absolutely, yeah.
3. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah, and that's what the goal should be. Not-
4. LHLewis Howes
  And it was almost like if she didn't wanna hang out with me again, I wasn't gonna be upset or hurt-
5. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
6. LHLewis Howes
  ... that she wasn't into me. I'd have been like, "Okay, this just didn't work out."
7. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  I think that comes from y- You know, you having done a lot of work on yourself to get to the point where you had ... You felt pretty accepting of yourself at that stage.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  So-
11. LHLewis Howes
  I couldn't do that in my 20s.
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  No, because I think the game playing originates from this feeling of I'm starting from behind. I'm starting from not being good enough, so how can I manufacture a dynamic that is gonna raise my value?
13. SKSadia Khan
  Mm.
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  Um-
15. LHLewis Howes
  How can I show my best self?
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  Or how can I create a mirage of a self that doesn't exist?
17. LHLewis Howes
  Very interesting.
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  You know? What, what, what am I trying to do by not texting you back for three days? I'm trying to create this idea of myself-
19. LHLewis Howes
  I'm busy
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... as this extremely busy, high-demand person, uh, as opposed to the person that I am. And, and by the way, if I was that really busy, high, high in demand person, I probably still wouldn't wait three days to text.
21. SKSadia Khan
  [laughs]
22. LHLewis Howes
  Right, right. [laughs]
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  So it's like, "Hey, I'm running from meeting to meeting, but I wanted to say hi, and how's your day?"
24. SKSadia Khan
  Oh.
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  'Cause you w- you still ... Even if you were that person and it wasn't where your value was-
26. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
27. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... you, you didn't put your value in being a busy and important person, then you still wouldn't be weaponizing it. But y- it, the game playing is a way to kind of, you know, manufacture or engineer a self that doesn't exist, a self that you think, uh, would be the most attractive you that you're not really. Whereas you came into your relationship with Martha going, "I'm all right."
28. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, yeah.
29. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah. [laughs]
30. MHMatthew Hussey
  [laughs] I'm all right. I, I-
39:42 – 41:41
The Curse of Being Too Smart for Love
1. LHLewis Howes
  unavailable." But what was the thing that you think held both of you back the most in your 20s from finding love?
2. SKSadia Khan
  I always had, uh, a lot of male friends, and it was a blessing and a curse because they were so open with me about everything. And men in their 20s, you know, they're young and they're enjoying life, so they would have lots of girls on the go and stuff like that. And they would always tell me what they're doing. So they'll say, "One of the tricks we do is we put her as my WhatsApp picture, but I might text other girls, but I ... She, she feels calmer in that moment." Or, "I text her on a night out, but you know, I do what I want, but she feels calmer when I say that." So I'd know all the soothing techniques might have a malicious, uh, background to it. So I would go in assuming men's, uh, their ways of soothing you and connecting with you has a malicious intent towards it. It's just-
3. LHLewis Howes
  But they were still off dating other people-
4. SKSadia Khan
  They're d- yeah
5. LHLewis Howes
  ... or talking to other girls.
6. SKSadia Khan
  It was-
7. LHLewis Howes
  Ah
8. SKSadia Khan
  ... just to pacify you. It's not true.
9. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
10. SKSadia Khan
  So bec- maybe it speaks of the men I used to know and hang around with, but that would be their kind of play. They would kinda know this is how you work women. So what would happen is I would always have this mentality is you can't fool me. I'm Sadia. You can't fool me. I know everything. So the problem would be is I would go, I would meet people with the intention of showing them that I'm more intelligent than they think I am. So my pro- process would be to prove how you can't trick me, so I'd look for clues, connect dots that aren't there. But it wouldn't be a genuine like, "Why don't I just try and enjoy this connection, and just see what's going on, and just trust the intention?" Instead it's like, "No, no, no. I know this means," da, da, da. And you're trying to prove to them how smart I am about human connection whilst not actually creating human connection.
11. LHLewis Howes
  Interesting.
12. SKSadia Khan
  So-
13. LHLewis Howes
  So it's almost like you could have been with like the nicest, best guy who really loved you-
14. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
15. LHLewis Howes
  ... and wanted to, like, show you the best of him. But you were like, "There's something behind the scenes-
16. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
17. LHLewis Howes
  ... that you're doing."
18. SKSadia Khan
  So I would s- try and check what online behavior they've got, what last seen on WhatsApp. And then-
19. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
20. SKSadia Khan
  ... connect some dots in my head, and then assume the worst. And then think, "Oh, well, at least by assuming the worst, I can't get too attached," and then I'm so smart. But secretly I'm craving the connection that-
21. LHLewis Howes
  Really?
22. SKSadia Khan
  ... I'm pushing away. Yeah.
23. LHLewis Howes
  When did you realize that was a behavior
41:41 – 43:40
Finding Security and Trust in a Relationship
1. LHLewis Howes
  or a pattern of yours?
2. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
3. LHLewis Howes
  That you were able to say, "Okay, let me, let me separate myself or start to heal or process from this and start shifting it"?
4. SKSadia Khan
  I thought it would be a permanent condition. I thought that I've just been ingrained with it. But I do think having a secure partner, their level of transparency and their level of security in themselves, and that attitude that you demonstrate with Masha was, "Look, if you're gonna play games, you're most welcome to leave. I'm not gonna beg anybody. But if you, if you wanna have a good human connection, you are most welcome to take a seat at my table." Meeting men with that, meeting somebody with that kind of mentality made me realize I don't need to come into relationships with all this defense and armor on-
5. LHLewis Howes
  Interesting
6. SKSadia Khan
  ... in my, in my back pocket.
7. LHLewis Howes
  Wow.
8. SKSadia Khan
  I can actually put the weapons down and actually enjoy the connection and trust the connection. And also having a, a life I like living with or without the connection. When I felt like this was gonna be my identity, being married to this person is gonna be my identity, it would mean that I would almost become an investigator, and this relationship would be everything, and I need to find, figure out X, Y, Z. But when you have a life worth living outside of the relationship, it's like whatever's in darkness will come to light at some stage anyway. And when it does come to light, I will still be fine. I'm still who I am. I've still got a life worth living. So it's a combination of finding a secure partner and having a life worth living outside of the relationship.
9. LHLewis Howes
  And, and, and if something happens where he's unfaithful or out of integrity, it will come out on its own.
10. SKSadia Khan
  It will come out.
11. LHLewis Howes
  You don't have to be constantly investigating to try to say, "I got you."
12. SKSadia Khan
  And the main thing is if they do come out with that mentality and they do, are cheating, whatever, they're not the person I fell in love with.
13. LHLewis Howes
  Right.
14. SKSadia Khan
  So I've, uh, I'm not missing out on anything. I know it would be painful, God forbid, if it did happen. I know it'd be painful, but part of me the ... It's the person I loved is no longer existing.
15. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah.
16. SKSadia Khan
  So it's okay. What am I attaching to anymore? And we let go. But, uh, uh, it, it's just going to redirect you. So before where I would just think it's all-encompassing and it would ruin my life, I, I'll still have a life worth living.
17. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
18. SKSadia Khan
  And this person's not worthy of that life worth living if they show me to be that person.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Wow, that's interesting.
20. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Okay. Before I follow up more on that, I wanna ask Matthew.
22. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
23. LHLewis Howes
  What was the biggest-
43:40 – 46:17
Insecurities and Staying in Unfulfilling Relationships
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... struggle that you had when you-
2. SKSadia Khan
  Did men do all of those tricks that I did, or is that more of a girl thing?
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  Do all of the what tricks?
4. SKSadia Khan
  Do men ever do-
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  Like-
6. SKSadia Khan
  ... like checking online and all, when, when they're last on WhatsApp and like-
7. LHLewis Howes
  I think it's, I think it's more-
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  No
9. LHLewis Howes
  ... I, I think, I mean, I'll speak from my s- personal experience. I think you used to be like anxious and, and be more jealous and be like, "Oh, what's she doing?"
10. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
11. LHLewis Howes
  "Why is she out with this girl, this guy?" Or what-
12. SKSadia Khan
  In the right
13. LHLewis Howes
  ... you know, be more like anxious or jealous.
14. SKSadia Khan
  In the real world.
15. LHLewis Howes
  But I wasn't like, "You're doing something, I know it."
16. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah. [laughs]
17. LHLewis Howes
  "Like I've now, I connected the dots and you cheated on me."
18. SKSadia Khan
  It's no investigation. It's just i- if it's there-
19. LHLewis Howes
  More different... Yeah, it's more insecure.
20. SKSadia Khan
  Right
21. LHLewis Howes
  ... more than different for me.
22. MHMatthew Hussey
  I mean, I think there are probably a decent number of men who will investigate.
23. SKSadia Khan
  [laughs]
24. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah, yeah.
25. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah, yeah.
26. MHMatthew Hussey
  I, I wouldn't write that behavior off.
27. LHLewis Howes
  Uh-huh.
28. MHMatthew Hussey
  But I, um-
29. LHLewis Howes
  For you, what was the-
30. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah
46:17 – 48:49
Accepting and Judging Ourselves
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  they weren't right for me.
2. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
3. LHLewis Howes
  Uh-huh.
4. MHMatthew Hussey
  Um, but I was not brave enough to, you know, to do anything about that. And, and I think as well, you know, even, even the part of me at that time that maybe judged, "Well, they're not right for me because of this and because of this and because of this," even the things that I decided were not right for me were kind of s- also signs that I hadn't really accepted myself. Because I, I truly believe in my bones, the more in life you accept yourself-
5. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... and every part of yourself, the more you start to see, you see more people as wonderful, not less.
7. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  I don't subscribe to this idea that when you do work on yourself, your pool shrinks.
9. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
10. MHMatthew Hussey
  Like, a lot of people say that. Like, "Oh, I've just done so much self-growth that it's hard to find anyone anymore."
11. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  "Because no one's done as much self-growth as me."
13. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah. [laughs]
14. MHMatthew Hussey
  And I, I-
15. SKSadia Khan
  Or your circle gets so small and they kinda brag about their-
16. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah
17. SKSadia Khan
  ... lack of connection now that they've healed.
18. MHMatthew Hussey
  Yeah. And I, I've, I always found that to be really strange because f- for me, any, like, any work I've done to give myself more compassion and make more space for the, uh, what I've seen previously as the hideous, detestable, contemptible parts of myself-
19. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
20. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... has always made me make s- more space for other people.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
22. SKSadia Khan
  Mm.
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  'Cause I go, "Oh God, if I can accept these things about me, I better accept them about you, too." And I think there was a time in my life where I couldn't, I couldn't make space for those parts of me, so I just like denied them. But of course, when you then see them in other people, you go, "Yuck." [laughs]
24. LHLewis Howes
  Mm. Yeah, yeah.
25. MHMatthew Hussey
  That's not, "What's that? I don't wanna, I don't, that's not for me." But what you're really saying is, "This part of me isn't for me." And I hadn't, I hadn't figured that out for myself yet. So, you know, even when I say, you know, "That person wasn't right for me or whatever," it, it, the, even then there's a kind of like, it, you know... I'm not saying I would've been ready or that they on a fundamental level would've been the right person for me. But the reasons I might have been telling myself that they were wrong were often a judgment that came from me still judging myself in really nasty ways-
26. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm.
27. LHLewis Howes
  Yeah
28. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... uh, that I hadn't figured out yet. So it makes for a bad combination when you're judging people too harshly and deciding reasons not to be with them based on those judgments, and at the same time you're too afraid to be alone and do the work to accept yourself. 'Cause that will have you
48:49 – 51:17
The Struggle with Vulnerability
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  just jumping from one relationship to another to another to another. It's a bad cycle.
2. SKSadia Khan
  And sorry to interrupt, but Matthew, you were coaching in your 20s as well, like at the same time you were dating?
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  I was making YouTube videos since 19.
4. SKSadia Khan
  Oh, wow, okay.
5. LHLewis Howes
  19.
6. MHMatthew Hussey
  17 years.
7. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah. Did that age your dating experience, or just kind of, did you manage to compartmentalize, like the two things?
8. MHMatthew Hussey
  No, I think it was probably ne- negative.
9. SKSadia Khan
  [laughs]
10. LHLewis Howes
  Really?
11. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
12. MHMatthew Hussey
  I mean, it's not a, it's not a desirable place to be, is it? To be kind of, to be as a career making videos every week helping other people. But f- while you're already feeling shame for things you haven't figured out.
13. SKSadia Khan
  Uh-huh.
14. LHLewis Howes
  But you're teaching others.
15. MHMatthew Hussey
  And, and you don't feel you can be vulnerable about the things you're still working on. I don't think everyone who helps other people needs to have every single thing figured out. But if you haven't given yourself space to be honest about the things you haven't figured out- ... then you're in trouble because you're having to live this very private world of shame over here trying to figure things out in private-
16. LHLewis Howes
  Interesting
17. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... which makes it hard, 'cause when you figure things out in private all the time, you don't get support.
18. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah.
19. MHMatthew Hussey
  And you know, I, I think over time my, you know, I... One of my favorite things about my relationship with people in general, whether it's my audience or the audience watching this or, is that very honest relationship of I can truly be myself, and it doesn't take away from the things that I know. It, but it adds color and complexity.
20. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
21. MHMatthew Hussey
  And it certainly takes me off of any kind of pedestal, which these days I'm all too happy to be taken off of.
22. SKSadia Khan
  [laughs]
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  Um, it's one of the best things about it. But there was a time where in my, the, the way I was in my public life mirrored the way I was in my private life, which was that if I were to share with people some of the issues that I struggle with, my audience, the people that know me, won't love me anymore, or they won't wanna listen to me anymore.
24. LHLewis Howes
  Really?
25. SKSadia Khan
  Oh.
26. MHMatthew Hussey
  Or they won't be connected to me anymore. But that was the same as the, that was the same struggle that I didn't know I was having at the time, but was in my private life. Which is, if I speak this insecurity to the person that I'm with, if I truly get vulnerable about that and I stop playing the hero-
27. LHLewis Howes
  Ah.
28. SKSadia Khan
  Mm
29. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... in the relationship or in the dating process, then this person will very quickly go off me, and they won't be able to hold space for Matthew the complicated person who is sometimes heroic
51:17 – 53:16
The Masked Persona and Escaping One's True Self
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  and also is sometimes kind of pathetic.
2. SKSadia Khan
  [laughs]
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  Uh, you know, like, they won't be able to make space for those two things. They'll just see me as pathetic-
4. LHLewis Howes
  Mm
5. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... from now on.
6. LHLewis Howes
  And what's, and, and when someone isn't willing to share their vulnerabilities or insecurities in a relationship, and they only show their best self-
7. SKSadia Khan
  Mm-hmm
8. LHLewis Howes
  ... can you have a truly healthy relationship, do you think?
9. MHMatthew Hussey
  I don't think you can have a very connected one.
10. SKSadia Khan
  No.
11. MHMatthew Hussey
  And you can't have a c-
12. LHLewis Howes
  No
13. MHMatthew Hussey
  ... you can't, you can't ever really feel like anyone knows you. That's the problem.
14. SKSadia Khan
  Yeah. In, in my experience, it leads to a double life. It leads to-
15. MHMatthew Hussey
  Interesting
16. SKSadia Khan
  ... a person having one persona that they present to their loved ones, and a completely double life, and the double life is not even their true self. The second person isn't their true self.
17. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
18. SKSadia Khan
  It's actually a release from the first person that they're pretending to be, because when you're pretending to be somebody, it's very exhausting.
19. LHLewis Howes
  Yes.
20. SKSadia Khan
  So it's almost like wearing a mask the whole day. And a bit like when you're tired from work, you might do something extravagant just to relax. So what happens is, because they're wearing a mask in their relationships, when they take the mask off, they still don't go down to their baseline true self, they actually go more to their vices because they need a release. So they go more down the double pathway. They might lead to affairs. It might lead to a completely different type of affairs with a completely different person that ignites a completely different feeling. They're almost just running away from their true self.
21. LHLewis Howes
  Wow.
22. SKSadia Khan
  So nobody gets to access their true selves, even themselves. So and then they don't know who they really are, but they look for different peoples to escape who they are and just find different identities in different people. So it really leads to a confused identity. It's very draining for people who can't be themselves with their partner. I'll see people who are super successful. Maybe they're a doctor or a surgeon, have a married life, kids, everything. But because maybe they can't be themselves with their partner, they find themselves either addicted to drugs or addicted to escorts and prostitutes and doing this, finding themselves in environments that are completely not where they want to be, but that double life has taken such a toll on them that they need an escapism.
23. MHMatthew Hussey
  Because by the way, every relationship is shaped, i- i- i- is, is, is, is made in the crucible of hard conversations,
53:16 – 53:28
The Difficult Conversation
1. MHMatthew Hussey
  right? Can you have the difficult com- conversation? Can you say the thing you're afraid to say?
2. LHLewis Howes
  Mm.
3. MHMatthew Hussey
  And can you express your need without fearing that if you do, something bad will happen

Episode duration: 53:28

In the uListen app, the transcript lights up word by word as you listen. Get uListen

Transcript of episode IdyLRtakrzo

Get more out of YouTube videos.

Read along on your phone, search it beside the video, or ask your favorite AI app what was said.

iOS

Intro

The Phenomenon of Sabotaging Green Flags in Relationships

The Fear of the Unknown

The Power of Appearance and Sexual Gratification

The Power of Sexual Connection and Beauty

Women's Emotional Addictions in Dating

The Myth of Money and Status in Men and Women's Attraction

The Illusion of Value in Love and Dating

The Rush of Receiving a Message

Deciding your relationship with opportunities in life

The Impact of Dating Apps on Relationships

Male Emotional Unavailability and Women's Reactions

The Popular Kids Making Everyone Look Bad

The Importance of Height in Relationships

Emotionally Unavailable Women

The Destructive Cycle of Self-Preservation

Overcoming Relationship Game Playing

The Curse of Being Too Smart for Love

Finding Security and Trust in a Relationship

Insecurities and Staying in Unfulfilling Relationships

Accepting and Judging Ourselves

The Struggle with Vulnerability

The Masked Persona and Escaping One's True Self

The Difficult Conversation

Get more out of YouTube videos.