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Lewis HowesLewis Howes

THIS IS How You Become SUPERHUMAN, Push Your Limits & Learn ANY SKILL | Tim Ferriss & Lewis Howes

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Lewis HoweshostTim Ferrissguest
Apr 29, 20151h 10mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 0:05

    Intro

    1. LH

      [upbeat music]

  2. 0:05 – 0:47

    Tim Ferriss returns and sets up a listener-driven conversation

    1. LH

      Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. Very excited about today's guest. We got my man, Tim Ferriss, on the show. What's up, brother?

    2. TF

      Hey, man. Good to be back.

    3. LH

      I'm very excited. This is your third time on, I believe.

    4. TF

      It is.

    5. LH

      And, uh, we've talked about pretty much everything that I could ask you to ever kinda think of. I've talked about on the show, we just had lunch, we talked about a lot of stuff I've been wanting to ask you for a while as well off the show, off the record. And, uh, so I asked the School of Greatness members, listeners, what are the most important questions that you have for Tim that you think would be really interesting, not just 4-Hour Workweek type stuff, but something that, um, you know, you don't think you've ever heard him talk about before. So we've got a list of questions. You know, we're gonna

  3. 0:47 – 2:23

    Releasing The Tim Ferriss Experiment: the “video equivalent” of The 4-Hour Body

    1. LH

      kinda see where this goes. Um, but also before that, I wanna talk about what you've got going on. You've got, uh, something you wanna promote that's coming out. It's not a book.

    2. TF

      It's not a book, for the first time, in a lot of ways.

    3. LH

      Yeah.

    4. TF

      So, uh, after many years of effort, the TV show that I did, 13 episodes-

    5. LH

      Uh-huh

    6. TF

      ... uh, is going to, by the time people hear this, uh, should be available on iTunes. And that's-

    7. LH

      And on your website

    8. TF

      ... and on my website if people search for it, The Tim Ferriss Experiment. So that was basically the, the video equivalent of The 4-Hour Body.

    9. LH

      Yeah.

    10. TF

      So each episode features me doing some type of crazy experiment where I try to tackle parkour or golf or, uh-

    11. LH

      Drumming was one of them, right?

    12. TF

      ... drumming, professional poker in a week, and I go from zero to hopefully close to hero with the help-

    13. LH

      [laughs]

    14. TF

      ... of unorthodox teachers. And then in a few-

    15. LH

      Sure

    16. TF

      ... episodes, I actually am one of the teachers to show that it's not me, it's a toolkit. So we take-

    17. LH

      Oh

    18. TF

      ... other beginners for, say, uh, someone who can't swim, try to turn them into an open water, open ocean swimmer in the span of, you know, four or five days. They can't swim a lap in a pool, but can we get them to swim, like, a mile in the ocean in, like, 50-

    19. LH

      Right

    20. TF

      ... foot deep water-

    21. LH

      Right

    22. TF

      ... in a week type of experiments. And, uh, it was shot and edited by the team that does all of Anthony Bourdain's stuff. So it's very-

    23. LH

      Great show

    24. TF

      ... super cinematic, very, very gritty, and, uh, really proud of it. So it, it's, uh, it's been a long time coming-

    25. LH

      Sure

    26. TF

      ... to get everything lined up, but now-

    27. LH

      Year and a half, two years now in-

    28. TF

      At least

    29. LH

      ... since you started? Yeah.

    30. TF

      At least. And, uh, it's, uh, there's a lot of bonus content too. So-

  4. 2:23 – 4:31

    The hardest “easier-than-expected” challenge: parkour injuries and surfing fear

    1. LH

      And what, let's talk about that for a moment before we get into questions. What is the, the, the task that you took on, or the challenge that you took on that was, you thought was gonna be the easiest challenge that was actually the hardest challenge, that you're allowed to talk about right now?

    2. TF

      Yeah. Oh, I can talk about all of them.

    3. LH

      Okay.

    4. TF

      Uh, I think that I severely underestimated... I thought they were all gonna be difficult.

    5. LH

      Right.

    6. TF

      I didn't expect any of them to be easy because that would defeat the, the, the point-

    7. LH

      [laughs]

    8. TF

      ... of the show in a way. I want, I want people to see me sweat, I want people to see me risk failing. And-

    9. LH

      Sure

    10. TF

      ... I, I will say that I don't succeed in all of these episodes.

    11. LH

      Yeah.

    12. TF

      Like, people get to see me crash and burn in a few.

    13. LH

      Wow.

    14. TF

      And, uh, I severely underestimated how physically punishing parkour would be. That, that-

    15. LH

      Oh

    16. TF

      ... I will just... [laughs]

    17. LH

      [laughs]

    18. TF

      I still have injuries to this day from-

    19. LH

      No way

    20. TF

      ... that episode.

    21. LH

      Travis Brewer let you get beat up, huh?

    22. TF

      Uh, well, Travis is bulletproof. He's-

    23. LH

      He is. [laughs]

    24. TF

      He's, he's a ninja, and, uh, very almost immune to injury it seems.

    25. LH

      Yeah.

    26. TF

      Uh, but I have a lemon-sized cyst inside my right knee-

    27. LH

      Oh my gosh

    28. TF

      ... right now from impact damage from that episode, still today.

    29. LH

      Whoa.

    30. TF

      So that was a super intense episode. Uh, surf-

  5. 4:31 – 8:37

    Tortured superheroes, being bullied, and wrestling as a turning point

    1. LH

      Um, and one of the questions in here, I'm trying to find it right now, reminded me of this, um, about, and I can't find it, but I remember them asking, you know, what's the one superhero that you connect with the most and why? 'Cause you're talking about these superhero results.

    2. TF

      Yeah. I would say growing up, the superhero, one of the superheroes that I... Most of the superheroes I connected with were tortured in some way.

    3. LH

      Really?

    4. TF

      Yeah. So Wolverine. I, I mean, I was a s- a serious comic book collector and-

    5. LH

      Huh

    6. TF

      ... nerd for a long time. I still have probably 10,000 poly-bagged, cardboard-boxed-

    7. LH

      Wow

    8. TF

      ... comic books, uh, at, at home at my parents' place from my first, I suppose, business in a way.

    9. LH

      Wow.

    10. TF

      I collected comic books. But I was a fanatic about Wolverine, Punisher, Punisher War Journal. And I liked these-

    11. LH

      Wow

    12. TF

      ... I wouldn't call them anti-heroes necessarily, but these, these extremely impressive superheroes or characters who were also a, a very fallible human beings.

    13. LH

      Yeah, yeah.

    14. TF

      You know, they had these internal conflicts, because I, I can't identify with, with say a Superman, although I'm sure he has some conflict.

    15. LH

      [laughs] Right.

    16. TF

      But these, uh, these sort of pictures of perfection that some superheroes ended up being, uh, represented as in these comic books, I, I couldn't identify with. And I, I much preferred the characters who overcame-

    17. LH

      Mm

    18. TF

      ... their own internal struggles and hardship and doubt-

    19. LH

      Yeah

    20. TF

      ... and self-loathing to do incredible things.

    21. LH

      Sure.

    22. TF

      So the fact that, like, Wolverine would get his ass kicked, and granted, he has adamantium claws and-

    23. LH

      [laughs]

    24. TF

      ... some pretty amazing regenerative capabilities, but he would screw things up, and then he'd have to fix it. Same thing with, uh-

    25. LH

      Yeah

    26. TF

      ... with I guess it's Frank Castle and The Punisher. So-

    27. LH

      So which one was your, would you connect with the most you say?

    28. TF

      Wolverine.

    29. LH

      Yeah.

    30. TF

      Yeah.

  6. 8:37 – 13:49

    Kindness, mentorship, and two types of support: unconditional vs earned

    1. LH

      Um, can you tell me about, this is another question from our listeners, can you tell me about one of the people who's been the kindest in your life?

    2. TF

      The kindest? Well-

    3. LH

      Someone who's like just always been so kind, loving and generous, and who's maybe never really expecting anything in return.

    4. TF

      Uh, the, the first people who come to mind are, are my parents.

    5. LH

      Hmm.

    6. TF

      But I don't wanna give the, the, the expected answer. Uh, that, that would definitely be in first place, but-

    7. LH

      Sure

    8. TF

      ... you know, hopefully for most people, that's a given for them as well. Uh, I would say there were, um, three people who come to mind immediately, and, uh, there are many more, but, uh, the first was a wrestling coach named John Buxton-

    9. LH

      Hmm

    10. TF

      ... at, uh, St. Paul's. That was the second high school I went to.

    11. LH

      In Jersey?

    12. TF

      Uh, I was... No, that was before Jersey, so I was in New Hampshire.

    13. LH

      Okay.

    14. TF

      And, uh, Mr. Buxton produced very cohesive teams, and he pushed each individual wrestler to the breaking point and beyond to prove to them that they had more inside them-

    15. LH

      Right

    16. TF

      ... than they thought they had.

    17. LH

      Right.

    18. TF

      Uh, but he was much more than a wrestling coach. He was an English, uh, teacher. He was also in charge, uh, at least in part for raising an incredible endowment. I mean, he grew it from like 50 to $500 million or something like that.

    19. LH

      Yeah.

    20. TF

      And, uh, is now the dean of Culver Academy. And the... If you look at the kids who came out of his program, uh, under his guidance, uh, it's pretty astonishing to see how well a lot of them have done.

    21. LH

      Wow.

    22. TF

      Even compared to everyone else in, in, uh, the same class-

    23. LH

      Sure

    24. TF

      ... same, the same school.

    25. LH

      Sure.

    26. TF

      So my wrestling partner, for instance, was, uh, for, uh, for a good period of time, probably a year, he graduated before I did, but, uh, Charles Best, who went on to be the founder of donorschoose.org.

    27. LH

      Hmm. That's pretty cool.

    28. TF

      He was the first nonprofit ever to be on the, the cover of Fast Company for their-

    29. LH

      Wow

    30. TF

      ... Most Innovative Companies issue.

  7. 13:49 – 18:40

    Introversion, collaboration, and preventing conflict with clear expectations

    1. LH

      Yeah. That's pretty cool. And would you say you're a pretty introverted person then, from coming up from this, being alone when you're a kid?

    2. TF

      I would say that I am hardwired as an introvert.

    3. LH

      Yeah.

    4. TF

      So I find it very draining to be in big groups for a long period of time.

    5. LH

      Sure.

    6. TF

      Uh, conferences I find very, very exhausting.

    7. LH

      Yeah.

    8. TF

      Uh, small conversations or alone time I find recharging.

    9. LH

      Oh, good.

    10. TF

      So I can, I can perform, I can teach, and I enjoy teaching. So I can get on stage and, uh, become what people would perceive as an extrovert-

    11. LH

      Right

    12. TF

      ... to accomplish that, but it's very, very draining.

    13. LH

      It's draining, yeah.

    14. TF

      I'm an introvert, for sure.

    15. LH

      And one of the questions to follow that is, what's your best method for working with opposite-minded people? So maybe working with extroverts or people that don't think the way that you think about things, what's your best method for working with them?

    16. TF

      Well, I, uh... [sighs]

    17. LH

      'Cause I would say you're very unique, the way you think and the way-

    18. TF

      Yeah

    19. LH

      ... you do things. There's not many people that work and think like you.

    20. TF

      Oh, and sometimes, sometimes people work and think a lot better than I do.

    21. LH

      [laughs]

    22. TF

      Uh, or there are different ways to-

    23. LH

      Right, right

    24. TF

      ... to skin the same cat, and I really don't know where that expression came from.

    25. LH

      [laughs]

    26. TF

      It's such a brutal expression.

    27. LH

      It's-

    28. TF

      But there are multiple ways to skin that cat.

    29. LH

      [laughs]

    30. TF

      Uh, and, and I would say that the most important lesson I've learned and repeatedly learn is that setting expectations, so whether you're dealing with someone who's more, say, artistic and less operational, someone who's operational and less-

  8. 18:40 – 22:56

    What he’d change: barefoot time outside, batching calls, and walking as an underrated tool

    1. LH

      Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Another question from a listener. Um, what would Tim tell his younger self, uh, if he could go back and change anything about the past, or tweak it to make anything better? Is there anything that you would do, or anything you'd do differently?

    2. TF

      Th- yeah, this is a question, uh, I struggle a lot to answer because-

    3. LH

      'Cause you're so successful-

    4. TF

      Well-

    5. LH

      ... with everything that's happened [laughs]

    6. TF

      ... it's not, it's not that I'm a, a, I mean, we all have our own... Well, I shouldn't speak for everyone, but I mean, I certainly have my own neuroses, my own weak points, and-

    7. LH

      Mm-hmm

    8. TF

      ... there are things I feel like I need to work on personally. I've been very fortunate in the last however many years, seven, eight years, uh, to have had some tremendous opportunities and some tremendous success, and I think a lot of that, uh, could be explained through probably just coincidence and serendipity and-

    9. LH

      Mm

    10. TF

      ... and, and luck. I think there is just a-

    11. LH

      Timing and-

    12. TF

      Yeah, there's a skill component, hopefully-

    13. LH

      Yeah, yeah

    14. TF

      ... a competence component. But, uh, the w- I would be af- I, I'm quite happy with where I am in life.

    15. LH

      Yeah.

    16. TF

      And I would be afraid of tweaking anything-

    17. LH

      Sure

    18. TF

      ... because the butterfly effect and the, the ripple effect of that, I think, is completely unpredictable.

    19. LH

      Could change everything in your life.

    20. TF

      Could change everything.

    21. LH

      Yeah.

    22. TF

      And I'm quite happy where, where, with where things are. But if, if I ha- let's rephrase it. If I had to-

    23. LH

      If you had to, yeah

    24. TF

      ... I would probably, um, I think that I would probably go back, not to necessarily my childhood, but go back to when I was really cramming and just working 24/7-

    25. LH

      Mm

    26. TF

      ... prior to writing The 4-Hour Workweek after graduation, and I would mandate that I spend 30 minutes a day, like, outside barefoot on the grass.

    27. LH

      Hmm.

    28. TF

      Just bare-

    29. LH

      During that time

    30. TF

      ... yes, just-

  9. 22:56 – 30:34

    Spirituality without labels: meditation, direct experience, and skepticism about beliefs

    1. LH

      Yeah. That's cool. Uh, another question here. I'm, I'm interested to hear this answer. Someone said, "I've listened to nearly every podcast Tim's done, and Tim rarely, if ever, talks about being spiritual or having a spiritual life." So do you have a spiritual practice, or do you believe in a spiritual practice, or is that, uh, not something you're really into?

    2. TF

      Well, let me, let me, let me unpack this, because this is-

    3. LH

      [laughs]

    4. TF

      ... this is a good question.

    5. LH

      Yeah.

    6. TF

      And, uh, I would say that I, I generally don't talk, there's-

    7. LH

      Uh, there's a, sorry, there's a second part of this question I missed.

    8. TF

      Okay.

    9. LH

      "In fact, he frequently uses the semi-negative term woo woo to describe anything remotely close to it," so-

    10. TF

      [laughs] Uh-

    11. LH

      So maybe speak to all that.

    12. TF

      Sure. All right. So, uh, there are a few different ways to look at this. Uh, I'm not particularly religious.

    13. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    14. TF

      And I think what I like to, I like to define terms whenever we get into potential-

    15. LH

      Sure

    16. TF

      ... touchy territory.

    17. LH

      Of course.

    18. TF

      Because you'll have, I think that religion and politics, and I know people listening are probably saying, "Well, spirituality and religion aren't exactly the same thing," and we'll get there. But-

    19. LH

      [laughs]

    20. TF

      ... when, when I get into very touchy- ... territory, whether that be politics or religion or otherwise

    21. LH

      Mm-hmm

    22. TF

      , uh, people tend to have very, very strong opinions coming into a conversation that they are not going to change.

    23. LH

      Yes.

    24. TF

      And particularly if they're emotionally vested and haven't reasoned themselves into a decision, doesn't have to be religious related, could be anything

    25. LH

      Mm-hmm

    26. TF

      , uh, they're, you can't reason them out of that position

    27. LH

      There's, there's no open-mindedness

    28. TF

      Right.

    29. LH

      Yeah

    30. TF

      Exactly, and I don't find those conversations productive.

  10. 30:34 – 35:15

    Fear: sharks, aging, and interest in extending functional lifespan

    1. LH

      Yeah. That's cool. Another question: What are you afraid of most, and what's your brain's mechanism for handling that fear or any fear?

    2. TF

      What am I afraid of most? Uh, afraid of getting eaten by sharks. Um-

    3. LH

      'Cause you, you live on the ocean right now. [laughs]

    4. TF

      Surfed on the ocean, and I've spent a lot of time studying sharks. Um-

    5. LH

      That's why you haven't gone in the ocean recently. [laughs]

    6. TF

      And I have... Well, you know, I d- I don't think I've told you this. When I was in South Africa, at one point in Cape Town, my brother and I were gonna go surfing, and, uh, we called it off at the last minute. And literally about like 15 minutes later, a guy 500 feet down the beach was bitten in half-

    7. LH

      No way

    8. TF

      ... by a great white, by a 16-foot great white shark. Uh, and one of my fans actually saw it live and tweeted.

    9. LH

      Oh, my gosh.

    10. TF

      And he's like, "Holy shit, just saw a guy get bitten in half by a great white shark."

    11. LH

      Oh, my gosh.

    12. TF

      Yeah. And this, he was in, uh, chin-deep water. So, uh, that's-

    13. LH

      Oh

    14. TF

      ... that's one.

    15. LH

      That is scary.

    16. TF

      I do have a persistent fear of being eaten by sharks. But if it happens, meh.

    17. LH

      Is that why you haven't gone in?

    18. TF

      Uh, part of the reason.

    19. LH

      For real, wow.

    20. TF

      Quite frankly, there, there are a good number of sharks around here, including, uh-

    21. LH

      There are

    22. TF

      ... I mean, uh, Manhattan Beach in particular. But, uh-

    23. LH

      Especially when you see dolphins going over. [laughs]

    24. TF

      Yeah, dolphins and seal. I mean, where there are seal-

    25. LH

      Like, ah

    26. TF

      ... there are generally-

    27. LH

      Sharks

    28. TF

      ... predators that like to eat seal. So I, uh-

    29. LH

      So how do you handle that, then?

    30. TF

      Well, in that particular case, I'm gonna go swimming, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it when there are other humans further out-

  11. 35:15 – 39:15

    Lucid dreaming as training and a “meditative practice”

    1. LH

      Sure. Okay. Interesting. Okay. Um, someone asked about lucid dreaming experiences. Um, how can you replicate for clarity on vision and capacity for carrying out life goals in lucid dreaming experiences? And, and have you done a lot of lucid dreaming yourself?

    2. TF

      I have. Yeah. Lucid dreaming, I think, is an incredibly underrated tool.

    3. LH

      Hm.

    4. TF

      Uh, and this actually comes back to the spiritual, mystical experiences, because you, you can have some very unusual experiences in lucid dreaming that make you question whether or not you are really dreaming-

    5. LH

      Right

    6. TF

      ... in a lot of ways. Uh, but lucid dreaming, for those who are not familiar, is a, a becoming conscious of the fact that you're dreaming while you're dreaming. And most people have had this experience.

    7. LH

      Sure.

    8. TF

      Like, "Oh, I'm dreaming. Weird." And then they wake up. Uh, what you can learn to do over time, and there's, uh, there was a professor, I think he was a professor at Stanford named Stephen LaBerge who wrote a very good book, which is a, a good primer on this, called Exploring the World of, of Lucid Dreaming. And actually, if people Google lucid dreaming 101 or- and my name, uh, I wrote an article on this Uh, you can ex- you can, there are very pragmatic ways you can ac- you can initiate, uh, and extend the duration of lucid dreaming

    9. LH

      Really?

    10. TF

      And I got to a point in high school, late high school and college, where I could experience three or four different sessions of lucid dreaming that roughly coincided-

    11. LH

      In one dream

    12. TF

      ... uh, in one, uh-

    13. LH

      Night

    14. TF

      ... night-

    15. LH

      Okay

    16. TF

      ... which roughly coincided with my periods of REM sleep.

    17. LH

      Wow.

    18. TF

      And I would use those, for instance, to, this is sounds nuts, but of, since I could extend the duration, I would actually, I was training for, uh, for nationals in wrestling at that point in high school, and I would train with an Olympian named John Smith in my dream-

    19. LH

      Hmm

    20. TF

      ... on low leg attacks, and then it's very specific types of techniques, with him in my lucid dream to get additional training time that I would hopefully take onto the mats the next day.

    21. LH

      Wow.

    22. TF

      And it transferred pretty well, which is insane.

    23. LH

      That's cool.

    24. TF

      Uh, but if you think about the benefits of visualization-

    25. LH

      Yeah

    26. TF

      ... well, if you, if, if you take the-

    27. LH

      [clears throat]

    28. TF

      ... documented performance benefits of different types of, of, uh, guided visualization and you translate that into lucid dreaming, well, now you have a full-

    29. LH

      That's powerful

    30. TF

      ... sensory kinesthetic reproduction-

  12. 39:15 – 41:27

    Loneliness, physical play, and the “where of happiness”

    1. LH

      Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. Um, I wanted to ask the question, someone asked, asked a question about being lonely. Uh, you talk about how being lonely is often a big downfall of being a writer, so how do you deal with loneliness? As being an introvert as well, it's like-

    2. TF

      Yeah, you know, it's, uh, it's, it's a constant challenge for me-

    3. LH

      Hmm

    4. TF

      ... because, uh, I want to recharge on my own, but it's easy for me to fool myself-

    5. LH

      [laughs]

    6. TF

      ... into thinking that that's what I need, when in fact I need to get out, and we've-

    7. LH

      Yeah

    8. TF

      ... talked about Acroyoga.

    9. LH

      Yeah.

    10. TF

      But doing some type of, of communal activity, whether that be joining a pickup, uh, or I shouldn't say pickup, but like a f-

    11. LH

      Club

    12. TF

      ... a club sport-

    13. LH

      Yeah

    14. TF

      ... team of some type, like soccer or, uh-

    15. LH

      You play once a week and-

    16. TF

      ... taking, taking dance lessons.

    17. LH

      Yeah.

    18. TF

      I think physical contact, not sexual, I mean, it could be sexual I suppose, but some type of, of physical contact, and this comes back to the, the feet on the grass, just, like-

    19. LH

      Hmm

    20. TF

      ... getting back, getting out of the prefrontal cortex and doing something that is very-

    21. LH

      Yeah

    22. TF

      ... uh, sort of gr- gratifying on an ape-like level.

    23. LH

      Yeah.

    24. TF

      Uh, dancing, Acroyoga-

    25. LH

      Just playing

    26. TF

      ... yeah, jujitsu, something that has some element of physical play and-

    27. LH

      Yeah

    28. TF

      ... touch, I think is hugely restorative.

    29. LH

      Sure.

    30. TF

      Uh, so I try to do more of that. It's a lot easier where we are. I mean, right now we're in Southern California.

  13. 41:27 – 48:30

    Best investments: consistent tracked workouts, books as leverage, and writing as a core skill

    1. LH

      Uh, I'm curious, two questions, I guess. This might be a trick question for you. What's the best investment you've ever made, uh, in yourself, and then what's the best investment you've made in someone else?

    2. TF

      That's a tough question. Uh, best investment I've made in myself w- would be any time I schedule and record workouts consistently.

    3. LH

      Hmm.

    4. TF

      That is just the scaffolding that allows me to do everything else more effectively.

    5. LH

      Wow.

    6. TF

      So any time I get serious about training, all the other pieces fall into place. But despite that fact, it's very easy for, I think, everyone to drop that hat as soon as things get a little hectic. They're like, "No, I-"

    7. LH

      It's like I don't have time to work out.

    8. TF

      Exactly, which is exact- it's completely the most counterproductive decision to make, yet it is a sin that I commit repeatedly. [laughs]

    9. LH

      [laughs]

    10. TF

      So I have to, uh, but I do catch myself.

    11. LH

      Yeah.

    12. TF

      And- That would be, that would be an incredible investment-

    13. LH

      Mm-hmm

    14. TF

      ... anytime that I do that.

    15. LH

      And you say recording it though, you say that's like the second part of it, is-

    16. TF

      Right, tracking it, so writing it down. Not necessarily recording the video.

    17. LH

      Well, tracking it in a video.

    18. TF

      But having a system for, uh, determining progress or lack thereof-

    19. LH

      Mm-hmm

    20. TF

      ... for planning, et cetera.

    21. LH

      Yeah.

    22. TF

      It just gives me positive feedback in a very concrete way that compels me to continue doing it. And I also think that exercise allows you to diversify your identity a bit.

    23. LH

      Mm.

    24. TF

      So what I mean by that is, if you have all of your eggs in the one basket that is the book you're working on or the startup you're working on, or fill in the blank.

    25. LH

      Or your family.

    26. TF

      Or, or your family.

    27. LH

      Whatever, yeah.

    28. TF

      If you have all of your eggs in one basket, if anything takes a turn for the worse, and it could be for factors outside of your control, you can become depressed and, uh, your self-esteem can take a huge hit. You can feel like a failure. I find it helpful not to, not to scatter your focus, but to have a, a couple of buckets-

    29. LH

      Mm

    30. TF

      ... uh, or baskets, maybe even two, but where if you have a good day or a good week in the gym, and you know it's good because you've been tracking it and you've put 15 pounds on your deadlift or whatever it might be-

  14. 48:30 – 53:12

    Confidence through discomfort: inoculating fear with “comfort challenges”

    1. LH

      Sure. I like that. As, uh, you know, two guys sitting here, former bullied- ... elementary school kids here, what do you think are some good ways to increase confidence for anyone? Or what are some ways that you did to increase confidence along the way, and what are some things other people can do?

    2. TF

      Increase confidence for people in general, or for kids, or-

    3. LH

      Yeah, in general. Let's say adults, people listening.

    4. TF

      [sighs]

    5. LH

      18 and up.

    6. TF

      I, I really think that, I think that positive thinking is overrated.

    7. LH

      Mm.

    8. TF

      So what I mean by that is, uh, or let me rephrase that a different way. I think positive thinking is necessary, but not sufficient.

    9. LH

      Mm.

    10. TF

      So what I've noticed, and this is very common, for instance, in the meditation world [laughs]

    11. LH

      [laughs]

    12. TF

      You'll see peop- you'll, I mean, I've met some tremendous meditation teachers, uh, and some of them defy this, this, this description.

    13. LH

      [laughs]

    14. TF

      But they're, they're outside of the action, right? So they're at a monastery.

    15. LH

      Uh-huh.

    16. TF

      They're, they're somewhere very, with minimal inputs, and they're the, the picture of, uh, patience and calm and so on. But I've seen some of those people-

    17. LH

      They're not in traffic all day long

    18. TF

      ... exactly, when you throw them into the front, you know, onto the front lines, and-

    19. LH

      [laughs]

    20. TF

      ... people are telling them to fuck off and they're honking behind them, they lose their shit.

    21. LH

      Yeah.

    22. TF

      And I, I think that you need to make yourself uncomfortable.

    23. LH

      Mm.

    24. TF

      So if you have a, and that's why in the 4-Hour Workweek, these comfort challenges are so important. I mean, and, and they seem silly, but there's a poi- there's a very, there's a very, uh, transcendent, uh, or important benefit that you get from, say, going into a Starbucks and laying down on the floor for 20 seconds, and not saying anything to someone, and then just getting back up, and that's a comfort challenge. Most people do not wanna do it.

    25. LH

      Yeah.

    26. TF

      And they'll do that, and they'll get up and they'll be like, "Wow, I was so nervous about that, and nothing bad happened."

    27. LH

      Nothing happened.

    28. TF

      Exactly. And when you expand your sphere of comfortable action by doing things that make you marginally uncomfortable-

    29. LH

      Yeah

    30. TF

      ... uh, you get better at asking yourself and answering the question, what's the worst that could happen?

  15. 53:12 – 1:02:15

    Punchable bureaucracy, “help the world” priorities, and the unsolved problem of saying no

    1. LH

      I like that. Very cool. All right, I wanna get to a, a few last questions. Um, one that you ask, I think sometimes I've heard you ask this at the end of your episodes, is, I think you say the question like, "I'm gonna ask you something, and then you just give me the first response." And one of them is punching someone in the face.

    2. TF

      [laughs]

    3. LH

      So I think that's a question you ask, right?

    4. TF

      Yeah, yeah. Who's, who's, uh, w-

    5. LH

      S-

    6. TF

      Whose face comes to mind-

    7. LH

      So you-

    8. TF

      ... when you think of the word punchable? Yeah.

    9. LH

      So who is that for you right now? [laughs]

    10. TF

      Oh, man. You know, and I realize why this is a tough one to answer.

    11. LH

      [laughs]

    12. TF

      Because people don't, you know, for c- there's another expression, friends come and go, but enemies accumulate.

    13. LH

      [laughs]

    14. TF

      And, uh, let, let me think about that. I'll give you a real answer. So, um, I'll give a general answer, and, uh-

    15. LH

      [laughs]

    16. TF

      But it's true, and this, this is, I've, I've really, I feel like I've aged 10 years-

    17. LH

      Mm

    18. TF

      ... just fighting this battle internally. Uh, pretty much every kind of mid-level big company bureaucrat who's tried to veto creative decisions of mine makes me so furious, it's hard to even verbalize how angry that makes me.

    19. LH

      Wow.

    20. TF

      Because they've never had their own skin in the game. They've never had, they've never had to stand on stage and risk getting booed. They've never had to put out something and risk, uh, not even getting booed, but just getting crickets. They've never-

    21. LH

      Sure

    22. TF

      ... they've never had to, like, stare down the barrel of the gun and potentially bite that bullet.

    23. LH

      Mm.

    24. TF

      They've never had to do it.

    25. LH

      Yeah.

    26. TF

      And so for them to veto or interfere with any creative decision on my part just makes me fume.

    27. LH

      Mm.

    28. TF

      And, uh, it's, I'm not saying it's helpful for me to fume, but that's my response.

    29. LH

      Yeah.

    30. TF

      So it definitely makes me wanna punch.

  16. 1:02:15 – 1:10:31

    Three truths to leave behind, three books, and Tim’s definition of greatness

    1. LH

      Yeah. Okay. Uh, all right. A couple quick questions left. Um, one is if all of your books and all of your writings, uh, were deleted.

    2. TF

      [laughs]

    3. LH

      Everything you've ever put out there on a blog post.

    4. TF

      Uh-oh. Yep.

    5. LH

      It's the last day of your life 150 years from now, 'cause you've extended it, and everything's deleted, and you had three truths about life to write down and pass on to your family and to the world, what would those three tr- [laughs]

    6. TF

      Jesus, man

    7. LH

      ... what, and you couldn't have ... You, all the information you've learned-

    8. TF

      Yeah

    9. LH

      ... all the stuff you've written, you know-

    10. TF

      Yeah

    11. LH

      ... the millions of books you've sold, what are the three things that you would say are true about life as you know it?

    12. TF

      Yeah. Uh, that is a very large question-

    13. LH

      [laughs]

    14. TF

      ... Lewis.

    15. LH

      I said it was a quick answer.

    16. TF

      Yeah.

    17. LH

      [laughs]

    18. TF

      Uh.

    19. LH

      It doesn't, it-

    20. TF

      Long, long pause followed by short answer. Let's see.

    21. LH

      It doesn't have to be perfect, but c- what come, what comes up for you?

    22. TF

      The first, I'll give you two.

    23. LH

      Yeah.

    24. TF

      So the first two that come to mind are you're the average of the five people you associate with most.

    25. LH

      Like that.

    26. TF

      You know, financially, physically, emotionally.

    27. LH

      Mm-hmm.

    28. TF

      And if someone s- tells you you have to do something or should do something, ask them f- ask them for the evidence.

    29. LH

      Hmm.

    30. TF

      Ask them what evidence suggests that. And, uh, the, the underlying theme being test assumptions. You have to test assumptions.

Episode duration: 1:10:39

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