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B-Team Jiu Jitsu: Craig Jones, Nicky Rod, and Nicky Ryan | Lex Fridman Podcast #363

Craig Jones, Nicky Rod and Nicky Ryan, together with Ethan Crelinsten are founders of the B-Team, a legendary jiu jitsu team based in Austin, TX. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Eight Sleep: https://www.eightsleep.com/lex to get special savings - Athletic Greens: https://athleticgreens.com/lex to get 1 month of fish oil - BetterHelp: https://betterhelp.com/lex to get 10% off EPISODE LINKS: B-Team's Instagram: https://instagram.com/bteamjj/ B-Team's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/bteamjiujitsu B-Team's Website: https://bteamjj.com/ Craig Jones's Instagram: https://instagram.com/craigjonesbjj/ Nicky Rod's Instagram: https://instagram.com/nickyrod247/ Nicky Ryan's Instagram: https://instagram.com/nickyryanbjj/ Craig Jones's Instructionals: https://bjjfanatics.com/collections/craig-jones Nicky Rod's Instructionals: https://bjjfanatics.com/collections/instructional-videos/fighter_nick-rodriguez Nicky Ryan's Instructionals: https://bjjfanatics.com/collections/instructional-videos/fighter_nicky-ryan PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41 OUTLINE: 0:00 - Introduction 2:21 - B-Team 7:57 - Winning and losing 15:43 - Danaher Death Squad (DDS) 33:13 - Nicky Rod vs Gordon Ryan 49:47 - Steroids 1:04:31 - White belts 1:12:40 - Alexander Volkanovski vs Islam Makhachev 1:32:15 - Greatest MMA fighter of all time 1:34:43 - Dagestani fighters 1:36:00 - Conor McGregor 1:38:39 - Strength training and injuries 1:51:03 - Pre-match ritual 1:57:34 - Toughest match 2:01:25 - Positional training 2:07:59 - Perfect training week 2:10:49 - Overtraining 2:13:08 - Advice for beginners 2:21:17 - Takedowns and submissions 2:26:55 - Ego 2:31:24 - Lion vs bear 2:36:15 - Street fights 2:38:17 - Money and friendship SOCIAL: - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman - Reddit: https://reddit.com/r/lexfridman - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman

Lex FridmanhostCraig JonesguestNicky Rod (Nick Rodriguez)guest
Mar 6, 20232h 50mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:21

    Introduction

    1. LF

      How would a kangaroo attack a human?

    2. CJ

      Knock him down and then they choke him.

    3. LF

      (laughs) The kangaroos do? On a human?

    4. CJ

      They choke each other, yeah.

    5. NR

      Oh, yeah.

    6. LF

      They don't choke each other.

    7. CJ

      You don't believe me?

    8. LF

      (laughs)

    9. CJ

      If you watch the video, they choke each other out.

    10. NR

      (laughs) I've seen this, yeah.

    11. LF

      (laughs)

    12. NR

      I-

    13. CJ

      I mean, probably the most annoying one was obviously the one where I had gone to an arm bar, I was like, "Tap, bro." And he wouldn't tap.

    14. NR

      Yeah.

    15. CJ

      So I let him out.

    16. NR

      (laughs)

    17. LF

      (laughs)

    18. NR

      I didn't get surgery. I didn't do-

    19. CJ

      (laughs)

    20. NR

      ... essentially (laughs) any rehab.

    21. CJ

      The, the-

    22. NR

      I just have no ACL in my left leg.

    23. CJ

      The-

    24. LF

      So, what's the leg having no-

    25. NR

      (laughs)

    26. CJ

      The surgeon goes, "You've got two options. Surgery, rehab only." Nicky goes, "I'll do nothing."

    27. NR

      (laughs) Yeah.

    28. CJ

      Yeah, I mean what could possibly go wrong if you're the world's best grappler, hates you, and you're gently provoking him behind the scenes every day? Well, I mean-

    29. LF

      In Texas.

    30. CJ

      And you've stolen his brother, held him for ransom.

  2. 2:21 – 7:57

    B-Team

    1. LF

      Craig, can you introduce everyone?

    2. CJ

      Yep. So we got Nicky Rod here, brown belt, two time ADCC silver medalist. Nicky Ryan here. That's him.

    3. NR

      (laughs)

    4. NR

      (laughs)

    5. LF

      (laughs) Who are you?

    6. CJ

      And I'm Craig Jones, also a two time ADCC silver medalist.

    7. LF

      Silver medalist? So, the number one loser?

    8. CJ

      Number one loser.

    9. LF

      And maybe a little bit more, your bio says, "Widely known as the Black Belt Slayer hails from New Jersey, the land of pizza and biceps."

    10. NR

      Uh, yes, (laughs) that's pretty accurate.

    11. LF

      Okay. You, uh, also do carry a gun on you a lot?

    12. NR

      Yeah, I keep, I keep it, keep it loaded, you know?

    13. LF

      Yeah.

    14. NR

      Keep it on me.

    15. LF

      Uh-huh. Do you have one today?

    16. NR

      Uh, in the car.

    17. LF

      That was a mistake. That was your first mistake. (laughs)

    18. NR

      (laughs) Yeah, I think you're too close. (laughs)

    19. CJ

      (laughs)

    20. NR

      Very uncomfortable. (laughs)

    21. LF

      Uh, and you are Nicky Ryan. What else is there? What else do we know? Uh.

    22. CJ

      Gordon Ryan's brother.

    23. LF

      Gordon Ryan's brother.

    24. NR

      (laughs) Was waiting for that one.

    25. CJ

      (laughs)

    26. LF

      (laughs) All right, so, and you're all together, uh, part of the leadership of the, the B Team here in Austin. Let's just get out some introductory questions. What, in general, accomplishment of the things you mentioned are you most proud of?

    27. CJ

      I mean, I'm proud just to not have to work a full time job just to get by on the bullshit I've done so far.

    28. LF

      Yeah.

    29. CJ

      Honestly.

    30. LF

      Just making money of a thing you love.

  3. 7:57 – 15:43

    Winning and losing

    1. LF

      What do you guys, uh... Do you love winning or hate losing more?

    2. CJ

      I definitely don't hate losing.

    3. LF

      (laughs)

    4. CJ

      If it pays the bills, I don't mind.

    5. LF

      Oh, really?

    6. CJ

      Um, yeah. But honestly, if I win, I feel more relief than anything, rather than, like, excitement and stuff. I'm like, "Oh, fuck, thank God that's over," you know?

    7. LF

      What about you?

    8. NR

      I ha- I hate losing, for sure. Um, but I understand that it's necessary to get, you know, to get to where you want to be. Um, and then winning is like... I mean, wha- what I think it... Winning is probably the closest you could think, you can get to, like, heroin or something, 'cause, I mean, we're on a h- Like, if you do, have s- extreme success in a, a tournament that you've been, you know, adamant about training for and, and competing in for a while, and, and you end up winning it, I mean, I feel like you're on that high for days at a time afterwards.

    9. CJ

      Heroin's gotta be better.

    10. NR

      You think so?

    11. CJ

      (laughs)

    12. NR

      I'ma, I'ma stick with no, but-

    13. CJ

      I'm not gonna suck dick to win. (laughs)

    14. LF

      (laughs)

    15. NR

      You'd suck dick for heroin? (laughs) Okay. I guess that's a good point. Yeah. (laughs)

    16. LF

      Well, you know, like, uh, because you, you, you come from a little bit of the, uh, wrestling culture, one of the things I really love is at the end of the match when they lose, they just, there's no... they just run off.

    17. NR

      Yeah.

    18. LF

      They're, like, almost pissed off. It's like some mixture of anger and frustration at themselves.

    19. NR

      I think s- I think sometimes that people, like, freak out on the mat, and I think that's just to, to show everybody, like, ac- they're acting like they cared a lot, and really maybe they didn't work, uh, enough to, to, you know, get to where they want, w- to where they expected to be, and they lost, and then they have this big boost of emotion, like, after their, after their loss. But, uh, yeah, I mean, sh- uh, I think you just cry in the mirror and not to everybody else, you know?

    20. CJ

      (laughs)

    21. LF

      Um, what... Have you ever cried watching a movie?

    22. NR

      I don't think I've ever cried, period.

    23. LF

      Okay. Have you cried watching a movie? Like-

    24. CJ

      Not yet. Not yet.

    25. LF

      The, The Notebook?

    26. CJ

      I try to avoid those movies.

    27. LF

      Lion King?

    28. CJ

      Actually... I lie. Actually-

    29. LF

      Titanic?

    30. CJ

      ... the last part of a difficult weight cut for me is I try to find a sad movie and at least cry about a pound out.

  4. 15:43 – 33:13

    Danaher Death Squad (DDS)

    1. CJ

    2. LF

      Uh... You said that I'm Switzerland in World War II, since I'm friends with both you and Gordon and John.

    3. CJ

      Yeah.

    4. LF

      Uh-

    5. CJ

      Very rich country.

    6. LF

      Are you a Hitler or a Stalin, by the way, in this analogy? Would you like to be Hitler or Stalin? And should you make a T-shirt out of it, or-

    7. CJ

      I mean-

    8. LF

      I think-

    9. CJ

      ... a Nazi T-shirt, I don't know how well that sells, you know?

    10. LF

      I think it would... You know, I think... (laughs)

    11. CJ

      (laughs)

    12. LF

      Let's brainstorm on- on this one offline.

    13. CJ

      (laughs)

    14. NR

      (laughs)

    15. LF

      I- I think since Hitler lost, so he got second place in World War II.

    16. CJ

      That's true, that's true.

    17. LF

      I think- I think that makes you Hitler. Anyway, uh, in- to the degree that you can, can you tell the story of how... The time you've had with the- the Danaher Death Squad and why you split up?

    18. CJ

      I competed against Gordon for ADCC and EBI in 2017. And I remember, I competed against him at ADCC, and then we had the EBI event. And then I had a kasaya. I was... I compete- I used to compete all the time, every week. I wouldn't even do the pri- preparation or anything. I'd just be like trying to do seminars, make money, and then jump in and compete. I remember I showed up to kasaya after... I faced him twice. And there were like four locker rooms, and they put me with all the DDS guys. It was just me and all of DDS, and I think we competed the week- weekend before.

    19. LF

      Mm-hmm.

    20. CJ

      So, I thought it was gonna be super awkward, but it was actually... It was actually pretty chill. And the kasaya was in New York, and they suggested two come train that week. So, I came trained, hung out with him a bit. Uh, ultimately, the goal was to move to America and join a bigger team just 'cause that flight to Australia is death. Australia is so far away from everywhere. It's kind of like not realistic to base yourself in Australia when all the tournaments are in America. And then I went and trained with the guys, and they just had a massive, uh, massively deep talent pool in that room. Like, show up to like a... Meant to be 7:00 AM, actual 8:00 AM class, uh, on Brazilian time. And there'd be like 100 people in there, maybe... I don't know how many black belts, but a ton of elite guys. And I was coming from Australia, um, training with Lachlan Giles. But really, that room was pretty shallow, and like most people had serious jobs and stuff. So, it was like basically me just training with Lachlan, maybe a couple of other guys. And then to go to New York and have access to a- a wide array of training partners and guys that are training twice each day. I feel like that's what you really need. You need people that can train as much as you are. Work together.

    21. LF

      Did you get humbled?

    22. CJ

      Humbled?

    23. LF

      Did you get humbled in that room at first?

    24. CJ

      For sure, 'cause my style at the time was basically a ripoff version of what they were doing.

    25. LF

      Yeah.

    26. CJ

      Leg locks came in. I remember just...... watching Eddie Cummings nonstop, and just seeing this guy rip people's legs off. And I was like, "You know what? That's probably a good move." You know, that looks like an easier path to victory than trying to beat these guys at what they're- what they're good at already, you know? My philosophy at the time was, if it's bothering old Brazilians-

    27. LF

      Yeah.

    28. CJ

      ... it's bothering them for a reason.

    29. LF

      Yeah.

    30. CJ

      It's probably effective. And that's the path I took to sort of try to rip off their moves, and then obviously to go into that room, try to do them to them, is going to be a bit more difficult.

  5. 33:13 – 49:47

    Nicky Rod vs Gordon Ryan

    1. LF

      Speaking of- of the- the social media drama. I should mention that I've talked to, recently, to Gordon a bunch. Uh, I've talked to him about talking to you guys. And he's had nothing but really nice things to say about you, Nicky Ryan, and he has had nothing but bad things- (laughs)

    2. NR

      What- what were some of the things?

    3. NR

      (laughs)

    4. LF

      Uh... (laughs)

    5. NR

      (laughs)

    6. NR

      (laughs)

    7. LF

      There- it was, um... Well, let's- let's just go to the social media first. (laughs)

    8. NR

      (laughs)

    9. NR

      (laughs)

    10. LF

      'Cause the- the social media stuff that he said publicly is just like, a warmup. It's like, uh, foreplay, I guess. So, Gordon sent you, Nicky Rod, flowers for Valentine's Day, uh, posting on Instagram, quote, "I've been fucking him in every round and competition since we met in, uh, 2018. The least I can do is buy him flowers." And-

    11. NR

      We didn't get the flowers.

    12. LF

      No. (laughs) Yeah.

    13. NR

      We never got it.

    14. NR

      (laughs)

    15. LF

      That was the question. Did you get some flowers? You never got the flowers.

    16. NR

      He sent- he sent it to the wrong address.

    17. LF

      He did?

    18. NR

      Yeah.

    19. LF

      Where- where do you think he sent it?

    20. NR

      It was close, but it was wrong.

    21. LF

      Did you appreciate the romantic gesture?

    22. NR

      I did. I was looking forward to the flowers and potentially chocolates in there. But, uh, you know, it was a bit of a letdown.

    23. LF

      Uh, could you describe your recent match against Gordon? Uh, the EBI match?

    24. NR

      Okay. So, EBI match on UFC Fight Pass. It was- was a 20-minute match. And, uh, immediately, uh, you know, match starts. I pull guard, and then I stand up. He pulls guard. And we have this, uh, kind of like, back and forth, where he's trying to dig for underhooks, trying to get on top of me, and he can't really h- find success. Uh, and I- and- and then in the midst of me trying to work my body lock pass, uh, Gordon's able to underhook a leg and we end up in a leg entanglement. And then I'm able- I'm able to transfer that leg entanglement to a 50/50 position. Still leg- still in a leg entanglement. Uh, from that 50/50 position, I'm able to, uh, separate his feet, and- and actually get a few pops in. And he actually said I broke his foot in that exchange.

    25. LF

      With a toe hold?

    26. NR

      In a toe hold, yep. And, uh, you know, after- after that, uh, um, we had a- a bit more... I was- I was just being, uh, working on- on top positions, trying to get my body lock. Time runs out, and we go to overtime. In overtime-

    27. LF

      Can you hold on a second, actually?

    28. NR

      Yep.

    29. LF

      What does it mean to break a leg? I was- I was very confused about-

    30. NR

      Okay, so-

  6. 49:47 – 1:04:31

    Steroids

    1. LF

      Um, so you guys mentioned steroids.

    2. CJ

      I like that you bring that up after w- we talk about Russia.

    3. LF

      (laughs)

    4. CJ

      For the record. Smooth.

    5. LF

      (laughs)

    6. CJ

      Smooth segue there, Lex.

    7. LF

      (laughing) I did not condone the statements, um, said by the Aussie. But I - I would love to travel with you to Russia.

    8. CJ

      That would be a good time.

    9. LF

      Yeah.

    10. CJ

      You might get killed with me now.

    11. LF

      No, I would be the f- like, the first to-

    12. CJ

      (laughs)

    13. LF

      ... to - to turn to backstabbing. (laughs)

    14. NR

      (laughs)

    15. CJ

      You're like, "I got him here. Get him." (laughs)

    16. NR

      (laughs)

    17. LF

      All right. Um, are most of the top grapplers i- on steroids?

    18. CJ

      I mean, it's hard to say. You know, some people look like shit and they're on steroids. Some people look excellent and they're not on steroids. It's so, so hard to tell.

    19. LF

      But that seems to be the - the general consensus that a lot of people are on steroids. I'm always a little bit... I don't know, I'll just be honest, I've never - I've never seen anyone take steroids. I've never taken steroids. I don't even know if that's the right term to use or like TRT, any of that. So, I'm very careful, like to not let my naïveté, like, um, lead me to take conclusions. But, I do feel a little bit weird about the witch hunt nature of it. That some people a little bit too eagerly claim that others are on steroids just because they're successful. Um, but at the same time, it does seem that a lot of athletes will do whatever it takes to be successful.

    20. CJ

      Yeah, I mean, if a sport doesn't test, you got to assume most people are gonna do it. And especially now, as more money comes into the sport, you got to assume more people are gonna do it, you know?

    21. LF

      Uh, generally, like, do AGCC and... L- like, does jiu-jitsu test?

    22. CJ

      It's actually encouraged.

    23. LF

      Oh, it's encouraged?

    24. NR

      Oh, okay. (laughs)

    25. CJ

      (laughs)

    26. LF

      (laughs) You get a pamphlet? Okay. They don't test? There's no testing to see if-

    27. CJ

      They test to make sure we're on steroids because obviously it's a big show-

    28. LF

      (laughs)

    29. CJ

      ... for the UFC Fight Pass in the future.

    30. LF

      (laughs)

  7. 1:04:31 – 1:12:40

    White belts

    1. LF

      You now allow white belts to train with you. What's it like to open it up to a bigger audience?

    2. CJ

      Uh, we haven't opened it up yet, but it'll be interesting to see. I mean, I, I feel like your higher belts, they really understand what the training room is. You know what I mean? White belts early, they're trying to find their place in the gym. Could be kind of awkward and stuff in that environment. So, I think obviously those white belts coming in will change the dynamic. But the white belts will have a separate white belt class is obviously for them, because given it's such a high-level gym, it'd be tough for a beginner to be able to enter the, uh, more advanced classes where obviously we're teaching more advanced techniques. So yeah, we've separated it. White belt program, I believe 6:00 PM-

    3. LF

      Yeah.

    4. CJ

      ... Monday to Friday. Yeah. Maybe we'll have a Saturday one as well. But it'll be interesting to see how it goes. We're trying to do things different, you know? Like, we're trying to do... Your traditional jujitsu gyms, obviously you're not going to teach beginners wrestling at all. We're trying to split it at least 33% top game, bottom game, and wrestling. So, at least create more well-rounded athletes from day one. Whereas I feel like most traditional jujitsu gyms might have no gi once a week, they don't touch wrestling, very IBJJF-heavy techniques. But again, the sport's changing for sure.

    5. LF

      Just to take that on, how does a beginner get good at jujitsu? Like, given that you're starting this white belt, what's your philosophy on that?

    6. CJ

      Obviously, buy all of my instructionals.

    7. LF

      Yeah. (laughs)

    8. CJ

      At full price.

    9. LF

      (laughs) Yeah.

    10. CJ

      Not during a sale.

    11. LF

      Okay.

    12. CJ

      That would go a long way.

    13. LF

      For those of you who are Russians, I'll give you... I'll, I'll send you instructions for all the forms so you know how to, how to steal it.

    14. CJ

      Yeah, discount code?

    15. LF

      I'll share, I've bought them all, so I'll just send it to you for-

    16. CJ

      We do, I mean we do have the Makhachev 50 discount code, you know?

    17. LF

      Yeah?

    18. CJ

      Offering discounts to help him out for the rematch.

    19. LF

      I got the... Nice. (laughs)

    20. CJ

      (laughs)

    21. LF

      The Makhachev discount. Uh, well, I got 100% discount for you if you need it. But that said, your instructional are both hilarious and brilliant, and it's one of the most respected instructionals-

    22. CJ

      Oh, thank you.

    23. LF

      ... out there. With incredibly great names.

    24. CJ

      Yeah. It probably loses me sales, honestly, due to removing the seriousness of-

    25. LF

      Oh, because they think it's gonna kind of suck.

    26. CJ

      ... this whole thing.

    27. LF

      It's gonna be some funny, um, gimmicky thing?

    28. CJ

      Or, I mean, some people don't even know if it's a real product.

    29. LF

      (laughs)

    30. CJ

      That's a big hurdle I have to overcome is they-

Episode duration: 2:50:02

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