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Boris Sofman: Waymo, Cozmo, Self-Driving Cars, and the Future of Robotics | Lex Fridman Podcast #241

Boris Sofman is the Senior Director Of Engineering and Head of Trucking at Waymo, formerly the Google Self-Driving Car project. He was also the CEO and co-founder of Anki, a home robotics company. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - LMNT: https://drinkLMNT.com/lex to get free sample pack - Athletic Greens: https://athleticgreens.com/lex and use code LEX to get 1 month of fish oil - ROKA: https://roka.com/ and use code LEX to get 20% off your first order - Indeed: https://indeed.com/lex to get $75 credit - BetterHelp: https://betterhelp.com/lex to get 10% off EPISODE LINKS: Boris's Twitter: https://twitter.com/bsofman Boris's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bsofman Waymo's Twitter: https://twitter.com/waymo Waymo's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/waymo Waymo's Website: https://waymo.com/ PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41 OUTLINE: 0:00 - Introduction 1:08 - Robots in science fiction 6:49 - Cozmo 32:04 - AI companions 38:59 - Anki 1:04:33 - Waymo Via 1:36:10 - Sensor suites for long haul trucking 1:46:06 - Machine learning 2:04:03 - Waymo vs Tesla 2:14:38 - Safety and risk management 2:23:42 - Societal effects of automation 2:34:47 - Amazon Astro 2:39:12 - Challenges of the robotics industry 2:43:39 - Humanoid robotics 2:50:42 - Advice for getting a PhD in robotics 2:58:13 - Advice for robotics startups 3:09:19 - Advice for students SOCIAL: - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman - Reddit: https://reddit.com/r/lexfridman - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman

Lex FridmanhostBoris Sofmanguest
Nov 16, 20213h 14mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

From Cozmo To Trucks: Designing Robots People Love And Trust

  1. Boris Sofman traces his journey from co-founding Anki and creating the emotionally rich toy robot Cozmo to leading autonomous trucking engineering at Waymo. He explains how Cozmo’s success came from embracing non‑humanoid design, tight cost constraints, and Pixar‑style character development to create real emotional connection in a forgiving, fun domain. Shifting to Waymo, he details the technical, safety, and organizational challenges of Level 4 autonomy, especially for long‑haul trucks, and how simulation, multi‑sensor perception, and a rigorous safety framework underpin deployment. Throughout, he reflects on why robotics startups are so hard, how markets and timing matter as much as technology, and what widespread autonomy and home robots might mean for society, jobs, and daily life.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Deliberate constraints can make robots more expressive and lovable.

Cozmo had only four degrees of freedom, a low‑res screen, and no voice, yet conveyed rich emotion by saturating a few channels (eyes, lift, sound) and using Pixar‑style animation principles. Tight mechanical and cost constraints forced the team to focus on emotional clarity instead of chasing human‑like complexity that would raise expectations they couldn’t meet.

Character design is as critical as hardware and AI in HRI.

Most robotics efforts over‑invest in mechanics and under‑invest in character, but Sofman argues the ‘three‑legged stool’—hardware, intelligence, and character—must be balanced. Cozmo’s lasting appeal came from a character engine that modeled internal emotional state, context‑aware reactions, and even endearing mistakes, which made users far more forgiving of technical imperfections.

Robotics startups often die from market and timing, not tech alone.

Anki sold millions of units and built strong tech and reviews, yet the seasonal, hit‑driven, high‑inventory toy business, hardware‑averse capital markets, and brutal cash‑flow swings killed the company. Sofman emphasizes that even brilliant robotics products can fail if price points, category education, and underlying market dynamics don’t line up.

Waymo’s edge comes from L4 focus, multi‑sensor design, and real driverless ops.

Unlike L2 driver‑assist programs, Waymo’s hardware, software, and organization are optimized from day one for Level 4, with in‑house lidar, radar, cameras, and fifth‑generation compute. Years of safety evaluation, simulation, and operating a fully driverless ride‑hailing service in Phoenix yield hard‑won lessons about long‑tail safety that can’t be shortcut by demos alone.

Autonomous trucking will start hub‑to‑hub and reshape logistics gradually.

Waymo Via focuses first on freeway‑heavy, long‑haul routes between purpose‑built transfer hubs outside cities, leaving the last urban miles to human drivers initially. Over time, expanding routes, integrating with warehouses and ports, and rethinking freight flows could dramatically increase efficiency, change where warehouses sit, and reduce reliance on the most grueling long‑haul jobs.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

Perfection is actually not fun. We had to add noise and mistakes into Cozmo’s behavior because that chaos made him feel more alive.

Boris Sofman

Most companies in human‑robot interaction over‑invest in the mechanical side and under‑invest in the character. You don’t win just by adding joints.

Boris Sofman

The hardest problem in autonomous driving is often the evaluation problem, not the autonomy problem. How do you know you’re truly ready for driverless?

Boris Sofman

You can have the greatest idea and team in the world, but the timing and the market can still dominate your outcome.

Boris Sofman

Decades from now we’ll probably look back and say, ‘What was the world even like before autonomous vehicles?’ the same way we do with the internet or smartphones.

Boris Sofman

Design philosophy and emotional intelligence behind Cozmo and Anki’s productsCharacter, constraints, and human–robot interaction in consumer roboticsBusiness and operational challenges that led to Anki’s shutdownWaymo’s technology stack, safety framework, and Level 4 autonomy strategyAutonomous trucking (Waymo Via): hubs, logistics, and economic impactSensor fusion, machine learning, and simulation in self‑driving systemsFuture of home robots, humanoid forms, and societal effects of automation

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