Devon Larratt: Arm Wrestling | Lex Fridman Podcast #265

1. 0:00 – 0:45

   Introduction

   1. DLDevon Larratt0:00

      I get so passionate about it. I get so angry, you know? Because there's this saying like, "Oh, can you beat him in a hook? Can you b-" Man, just win, win. That's it. Just win and don't talk to me about anything else.

   2. LFLex Fridman0:13

      You believe the match is finished. And I wonder if that gets in the head of the other person.

   3. DLDevon Larratt0:19

      You see this?

   4. LFLex Fridman0:20

      Yeah. Quit. The following is a conversation with Devon Larratt, considered by many to be one of the greatest arm wrestlers in history. This is a Lex Fridman Podcast, to support it, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Devon Larratt.

2. 0:45 – 12:18

   Over the Top and John Brzenk

   1. LFLex Fridman0:45

      You are considered to be one of the greatest arm wrestlers in history plus are one of the most charismatic and, uh, fun people to watch in arm wrestling. But let me first, uh, start with a ridiculous, the controversial opinion. I actually really enjoy Over the Top, the movie-

   2. DLDevon Larratt1:02

      Oh.

   3. LFLex Fridman1:02

      ... with, uh, Sylvester Stallone, where he's a trucker. It's like a father-son movie. It's, uh, you know, like, a- a bunch of sports have the definitive movie. So boxing has Rocky, maybe folk style collegiate wrestling has, uh, Vision Quest. Um, what else is there? Billiards has Color of Money.

   4. DLDevon Larratt1:22

      Yeah.

   5. LFLex Fridman1:22

      This is, um, the sort of movie for arm wrestling. So, what did Over the Top get right? What did it get wrong about arm wrestling?

   6. DLDevon Larratt1:31

      That was actually based off of a real story. A lot of people don't know that. Yeah, the Over the Top movie, I mean, to a certain degree, that's actually real life. Like, that tournament, Over the Top, was real. Yeah.

   7. LFLex Fridman1:44

      It was literally named Over the Top?

   8. DLDevon Larratt1:45

      Yes, yes. There was a trucker division. And the guy actually won a truck for real. His name's John Brzenk. You know who that is.

   9. LFLex Fridman1:51

      Mm-hmm.

   10. DLDevon Larratt1:52

       Right? So the actual Over the Top Tournament, the trucker division was won by John.

   11. LFLex Fridman1:55

       Who is John Brzenk? He, he is... A lot of people talk about him as, like, a legend, and, uh, one of, if not the greatest arm wrestlers of all time.

   12. DLDevon Larratt2:04

       John Brzenk is every arm wrestler's father to a certain degree. A- all of us. Um, the entire sport looks up to him. Uh, he... (laughs) It's incredible what he's done. I mean, at 18, he won Over the Top. At 57, he just competed with me a couple of months ago, still at the world level. 18 to f- that's- that's 40 years of being at the top of a sport. It's incredible. Uh, he's hailed as the greatest of all time in the sport of arm wrestling. Um, yeah.

   13. LFLex Fridman2:41

       And he doesn't... He's beaten some monsters, so-

   14. DLDevon Larratt2:44

       Oh yeah. Yeah.

   15. LFLex Fridman2:45

       And he doesn't... (laughs)

   16. DLDevon Larratt2:46

       I mean, when you talk about, like, the, uh, the evolution of the sport, he's responsible for so much of it. Like, when you talk about, like, a lot of times w- when you go back, like, 20 years, 30 years, a lot of us looked at arm wrestling, I think it's... I mean, a- as something you could kinda do. And he's the first guy who's like, "If you wanna get better at arm wrestling, you gotta arm wrestle." And it seems so simple. But, um, you know, he answered so many questions that all of us had about techniques in the sport, uh, back, you know, pre- pre-video internet. Um, yeah, he's everybody... He's been everybody's target for, like, 40 years.

   17. LFLex Fridman3:31

       So in terms of strength, in terms of power, in terms of skill, what did he teach the sport of arm wrestling? So if you look h- how did the sport change from '80s, '90s, to, uh, the aughts? You were at the top of the world for many years, you know? Um, you, uh... Many argue you're still at the very top of the world, but, like, you were very dominant both left and right hand in, um, I don't know, 2008 to two twel- thousand thirteen, something like that.

   18. DLDevon Larratt3:56

       Yeah, yeah.

   19. LFLex Fridman3:56

       Um, so, how did that sport evolve to today?

   20. DLDevon Larratt4:00

       So, it's hard for me to comment, you know, prior to, you know, when I came to the sport was kinda mid '90s. Like, I've been arm wrestling my whole life, but, uh, I wasn't really involved in the sport to a- a major degree until probably, you know, mid '90s. Um, but I'll say that before the mid '90s, it was really hard to get good at arm wrestling. Very difficult. Um, everybody was doing it wrong, really. (laughs) Like, it was really rare to find people who were technically good arm wrestlers. Um, it was very underground, you know? When I, when I got into the sport, it was a flyer that came in the mail. Uh, you had to know somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody, and then you'd go to a club and you can't do anything with these people. And, and they'll... And they knew how to arm wrestle, they did, but real masters were rare. And, you know? Then internet. Internet helped everybody. Communication, uh, the transfer of knowledge became so much faster. Um, people became technically, you know, invested. People started to train, sharing- sharing ideas. By, I'd say, 2000 and... Well, probably around the turn of the millennia, I'd say that professional leagues started to slowly pick up. More organized, um, bigger productions started to attract more athletes. M- more people took it seriously. By 2010, I'd say there was another jump. Um, more serious leagues, little bit more money. By 2015, more major media. Like, people were investing a lot of money, like, uh, you know, millionaires, billionaires type of people were organizing events, setting up leagues. And, um, yeah, I mean, the past five years, it's just blown up. Uh, the techniques, I mean, if- (laughs) if I was to go back to when I started...Uh, you know, what t- what took me 10 or 15 years to learn, I mean, new guys are showing up and they've got it down in, like, a year.

   21. LFLex Fridman6:13

       Yeah.

   22. DLDevon Larratt6:14

       Yeah.

   23. LFLex Fridman6:15

       Well, i- i- the thing about it, the, the development of the sport is it's, like I was telling you off mic, it's a battle of one versus one.

   24. DLDevon Larratt6:27

       Yeah.

   25. LFLex Fridman6:27

       And then it c- that can turn into battle of nations, which, you know, there is. There's Canada, there's United States, there's all the Eastern Europe, Russia, Georgia, all of that.

   26. DLDevon Larratt6:40

       Yeah.

   27. LFLex Fridman6:40

       Th- that, that's what makes some of the greatest sports in Olympics great, like weightlifting. It's a battle of nations, not just the battle of individuals. And it's almost like these two humans represent the two nations. And I see that very much. We'll talk about your matches coming up, but there is, um, that battle between North America and that other part of the world.

   28. DLDevon Larratt7:01

       Yeah.

   29. LFLex Fridman7:02

       (laughs)

   30. DLDevon Larratt7:02

       Yeah. North America is very prized, you know? The North American champion is always highly sought after because they're typically the most famous, you know? Even still when, you know, quite arguably, there's always somebody in Eastern Europe who's just monstrous. Uh, it's typically the North American athlete who's more recognized.
3. 12:18 – 36:41

   Strength vs skill vs strategy

   1. DLDevon Larratt12:18

      one day.

   2. LFLex Fridman12:18

      So you said, uh, mass and strength go hand in hand.... just at a big level about arm wrestling, what's more important, strength, power, endurance, skill, strategy, or mental toughness? Like, w- how do these components all come into play in arm wrestling?

   3. DLDevon Larratt12:36

      They're, they're all important. And you can use everything, and you can adjust your strategy based off of the tools that you have. Uh, I would say if I, I could pick, ever, just one thing to have more of, um, I w- I would say that it would be strength, gained while fighting.

   4. LFLex Fridman12:56

      While actually arm wrestling-

   5. DLDevon Larratt12:57

      Yeah.

   6. LFLex Fridman12:57

      ... so not off the, off the top?

   7. DLDevon Larratt12:59

      No, no, no. So you get stronger from arm wrestling.

   8. LFLex Fridman13:02

      How do you get stronger from arm wrestle- like, in jujitsu, in grappling, you can get good by training with people much, uh, technically worse than you. So wh- with white belts and blue belts.

   9. DLDevon Larratt13:12

      Yeah.

   10. LFLex Fridman13:12

       It's actually beneficial.

   11. DLDevon Larratt13:14

       Agree.

   12. LFLex Fridman13:14

       'Cause you get to work stuff out.

   13. DLDevon Larratt13:15

       Right.

   14. LFLex Fridman13:16

       But I wouldn't say it develops, like, that intensity and power required to go against, um, people at your level. So w- how do you balance that? Do you, is it okay to go against people that are much weaker than you, or, um, th- do you really have to go against people at the same level?

   15. DLDevon Larratt13:38

       I, I think that a blended strategy is probably the best. Um, I, I'd say, kind of a rule is, whatever you do, you get better at, right? So you want to be kinda as precise as possible. You don't want to get hurt. Um, and it's just about investment. And i- the answer's not always the same. Things are gonna change. I am currently a big believer in what I call tower building, right? So y- you have to do a lot of volume to build a great tower. You, you need to have a ton, a ton of volume. So, so when you look at how to best build volume, you want to do workouts that aren't particularly challenging, that make you feel good, and do them so that when you add them all together, you, you get the biggest number. So, many easy workouts a day that are specific as possible, in my opinion, is the best way to lay the foundation for an extreme peak. And, uh, precision, right? Like, there's no more precise way to get strong at arm wrestling than arm wrestle.

   16. LFLex Fridman14:57

       So how often can you arm wrestle? What's your training regimen? You're, you're ta- you've talked about this as the climb.

   17. DLDevon Larratt15:07

       Right.

   18. LFLex Fridman15:07

       What is the training process to get great at arm wrestling?

   19. DLDevon Larratt15:13

       Well, again, it's gonna depend on what level you're at. Um, the answer at the beginning might not be the same. For me, a guy who's been doing it almost 30 years, I have to harvest. I have to harvest energy from clubs. Um, I call it cosmic punch. Uh-

   20. LFLex Fridman15:32

       Sorry to interrupt. You were here in Austin, Tex- you are in Austin, Texas, but you were at the, what was it called? The, the Water Tank.

   21. DLDevon Larratt15:39

       The Water Tank, yeah.

   22. LFLex Fridman15:40

       And you had an awesome crowd. I got to-

   23. DLDevon Larratt15:41

       It was great.

   24. LFLex Fridman15:42

       ... I get to watch. I got to interact with a lot of those guys. Um ...

   25. DLDevon Larratt15:46

       Yeah.

   26. LFLex Fridman15:46

       Just, just amazing community, amazing human beings. I got to talk to Dmitri in Russian and in English. He's um, he's an engineer. His wife is an engineer. So he's a brilliant dude, but also, uh, one of the toughest, I guess, guys you face there.

   27. DLDevon Larratt16:01

       Yeah.

   28. LFLex Fridman16:01

       But you face I don't know how many people.

   29. DLDevon Larratt16:03

       (laughs)

   30. LFLex Fridman16:03

       It must have been hundreds of matches.
4. 36:41 – 1:05:47

   Denis Cyplenkov

   1. LFLex Fridman36:41

      uh, thanks for bringing that, uh, match up. Let, let's talk about just, um, the, the m- the match against, uh, Denis. Your left-hand match.

   2. DLDevon Larratt36:51

      Yeah.

   3. LFLex Fridman36:51

      He's also terrifying-

   4. DLDevon Larratt36:53

      Yeah.

   5. LFLex Fridman36:53

      ... and seen as one of the strongest, probably the, uh, one of, if not the strongest, left-hand arm wrestler.

   6. DLDevon Larratt36:59

      Yeah.

   7. LFLex Fridman37:00

      Um, there's a lot to be said there. Maybe you could talk about this match at a high level.

   8. DLDevon Larratt37:06

      Yeah.

   9. LFLex Fridman37:06

      Why did you take on this match? Why'd you do the left hand-

   10. DLDevon Larratt37:09

       Yeah.

   11. LFLex Fridman37:09

       ... versus the right hand?

   12. DLDevon Larratt37:10

       Yeah.

   13. LFLex Fridman37:10

       What, can you tell the story?

   14. DLDevon Larratt37:12

       Okay. (sighs) Denis Cyplenkov. There's so much about this match. I love Denis.

   15. LFLex Fridman37:18

       Russian guy.

   16. DLDevon Larratt37:19

       Yeah, Russian guy. Russian, I used to call him Denis Chernobyl.

   17. LFLex Fridman37:23

       (laughs)

   18. DLDevon Larratt37:24

       Uh, what a monster. He kind of, uh, led, I'd say, this new era of arm wrestling, where the super heavyweight strength level has just gone through the roof. I wanted the match for such a long time. We tried to get the match. Uh, we couldn't get it organized. This is back in like, you know, 2008 to 2012. Couldn't get the match, couldn't get the match. I've always been more of a one-on-one puller. He was doing the, uh, the tournament format. I was ranked number one in the world, and towards the end, it kinda was very undecided. I ended up getting surgery. I ended up l- abandoning the super heavyweight division. I went down to 225s for a few years. WAL failed (sighs) temporarily. Um, so the 225-pound division was scrapped, and I said, "Okay. I'm gonna go for the, for the big crown once again." And I started, uh, to go after super heavyweights. The 2018 season was right hand. Uh, I started to enter negotiations to have the match with him. I'd, I'd, we'd been chasing the match for 10 years. They wanted to do it left hand, I wanted to do it right hand. I just wanted to, I just wanted to do the match. I wanted to do the match with Denis. I wanted to meet Denis.

   19. LFLex Fridman38:48

       So people should know that you were, the right hand has always been your strongest.

   20. DLDevon Larratt38:53

       It has been, I mean, I had surgery in 2016. I hate to make excuses. I hate to do it. Um, Denis was better than th- me that day, even on my best day. If you had gone back, my entire career, at no single day do I beat Denis Cyplenkov in 2018. I would like to think that I could maybe do it now, but at that point, there would have been no version that could have beat him. I, I don't-

   21. LFLex Fridman39:19

       Left or right?

   22. DLDevon Larratt39:20

       Uh, right hand, no. W- I, I, I'm curious about the right. Uh, but left hand-

   23. LFLex Fridman39:25

       So is the world. (laughs)

   24. DLDevon Larratt39:27

       Well, it might still happen. It might. But, uh, Denis completely destroyed me. Um, and I learned a lot from it. I, I think before the Denis match, I think I was, I don't know, I, I don't know exactly what your, word to use. Maybe I felt like my thinking was a little bit elitist. Uh, and I really learned a lot. I was really humbled that day, um, by how far and how professional and how prepared Denis was. Uh, and how seriously he took the sport.

   25. LFLex Fridman40:09

       There's a mental, uh, a slightly terrifying calmness to him.

   26. DLDevon Larratt40:15

       Yeah.

   27. LFLex Fridman40:15

       Which only comes with extreme preparation, I think.

   28. DLDevon Larratt40:18

       Yeah. His level of dedication, uh, was extremely inspiring to me. Um, you know, I used to do a job where it was serious enough that the, the price could be death, right? And I arm wrestled throughout that entire period, and I always kind of looked at, uh, you know, the cost of doing an activity being death, uh, limited to soldiering. And I, I kinda changed my mind a lot after that match. I realized that anything that you're in love with, once you get far enough down the road and professional enough at it, it's gonna kill you. Like, doesn't matter what you're doing. If you're crazy enough about anything, it's probably gonna take your life from you s- in some way. Um, and that doesn't mean you rush towards death. It's just your level of investment and level of risk can have some catastrophic e- effects.

   29. LFLex Fridman41:27

       Bukowski, Charles Bukowski, I think is the quote, uh, "Do what you love and let it kill you."

   30. DLDevon Larratt41:33

       Right.
5. 1:05:47 – 1:09:48

   Jodi Larratt

   1. LFLex Fridman1:05:47

      awesome. So you mentioned Jody. She's often in, uh, in your corner and, uh, does perhaps more trash talking than even you.

   2. DLDevon Larratt1:05:54

      Yeah.

   3. LFLex Fridman1:05:55

      So, I mean, if we could step away, she's an incredible human being. It's, it's sort of, as a fan, it's fun to watch the two of you both when you're ar- arm wrestling and just as, as people. Uh, you just see so much, I don't know, kindness and love, uh, radiating from the two of you whenever you're trash talking or talking about just, uh, random things or just talking about life. It's just a beautiful thing to watch, and thank you for sharing that with the world. But maybe, can you, um... She paid me to ask you this, but-

   4. DLDevon Larratt1:06:29

      (laughs) Of course she did.

   5. LFLex Fridman1:06:29

      Wha- wha- wha- what are the things you love about Jody, your wife, Jody Laret?

   6. DLDevon Larratt1:06:35

      There's-

   7. LFLex Fridman1:06:35

      What, what are the ways she's affected your life?

   8. DLDevon Larratt1:06:38

      Yeah. Jody and I go way back, right? We were in high school together. Um, the thing that I admire most in people is, is bravery. Uh, it's, to me, it's the most admirable quality. And Jody always has inspired me 'cause she's such a fighter.You know, if- if she believes that something's true, um, she'll- she just- she does not back down. She will, she will not. And you can, and not to say that she's- can't change her mind, 'cause she can. But while she is convicted, she will, uh, she'll not stop fighting. She's pulled me out of the fire repeatedly.

   9. LFLex Fridman1:07:25

      (laughs)

   10. DLDevon Larratt1:07:25

       We've- we've lived through so many things, um, very lucky.

   11. LFLex Fridman1:07:29

       How has she made you a better arm wrestler?

   12. DLDevon Larratt1:07:32

       She's fed me. (laughs)

   13. LFLex Fridman1:07:35

       (laughs) Yeah, I- I could see your, uh, you have videos of your house basically coming apart when she's not there.

   14. DLDevon Larratt1:07:40

       Yeah. (laughs)

   15. LFLex Fridman1:07:40

       (laughs)

   16. DLDevon Larratt1:07:42

       Yeah. Yeah. Without Jodi, I'm on the street, uh, living in a tent, and, uh, yeah.

   17. LFLex Fridman1:07:48

       Down by the river.

   18. DLDevon Larratt1:07:49

       Ea- eating dog food, yeah.

   19. LFLex Fridman1:07:51

       (laughs)

   20. DLDevon Larratt1:07:51

       Yeah.

   21. LFLex Fridman1:07:52

       Um, bravery.

   22. DLDevon Larratt1:07:54

       Yeah.

   23. LFLex Fridman1:07:55

       What about love? How has love made you stronger? Now we're gonna make, uh, Devin uncomfortable.

   24. DLDevon Larratt1:08:01

       Love is difficult to accept. Love is one of those things that, um, you know, a lot of times you don't feel worthy of it, you know? And so it's hard sometimes to accept someone's love. And someone who really loves you, they'll- they'll love you even when you don't, you know? And (laughs) here you go, you're gonna make me cry, Lex.

   25. LFLex Fridman1:08:25

       (laughs)

   26. DLDevon Larratt1:08:25

       Uh, yeah, Jodi and I have been through so much. Um, and- and she's shown me how, you know, she supported me just repeatedly, repeatedly.

   27. LFLex Fridman1:08:37

       Some of that is loyalty and patience-

   28. DLDevon Larratt1:08:39

       Yeah.

   29. LFLex Fridman1:08:39

       ... and perseverance-

   30. DLDevon Larratt1:08:40

       Yeah.
6. 1:09:48 – 1:14:22

   Canadian Special Forces

   1. LFLex Fridman1:09:49

      you once had a job where, uh, your death was a real possibility.

   2. DLDevon Larratt1:09:54

      Mm-hmm.

   3. LFLex Fridman1:09:54

      So you were in the Canadian Special Forces. What did you take away from that experience, that time in your life?

   4. DLDevon Larratt1:10:02

      Yeah. It was such a, such a great life. Really, really loved it. I, honestly, I never, I never wanted to leave. I never thought I would leave. I thought I'd be there my whole life. Um, a real honor to- to get to serve.

   5. LFLex Fridman1:10:18

      What- what did you get to do? What- what was the things you loved craftsmanship-wise, like fun things you get to do-

   6. DLDevon Larratt1:10:23

      Mm-hmm, yeah.

   7. LFLex Fridman1:10:24

      ... learn and challenge yourself?

   8. DLDevon Larratt1:10:25

      Yeah.

   9. LFLex Fridman1:10:26

      And- and you mentioned sort of honor-

   10. DLDevon Larratt1:10:28

       Yeah.

   11. LFLex Fridman1:10:28

       ... in terms of the- the- the serving part.

   12. DLDevon Larratt1:10:31

       Yeah. Yeah (laughs) . My favorite thing about serving in the Special Forces was for sure the people that I worked with. That's probably the first thing I could say. Uh, you know, I never, I always felt, like, totally comfortable in- in putting my life in the other guy's hands. Um, I- I was so happy to be in a place where I felt I could follow. Um, like, didn't matter. Like, I knew that the people ahead of me were- were incredible, I knew the people beside me were incredible. So just having that faith in your team is very special. And to know that they're for- there for a reason that has nothing to do with money, you know? They're, and that's what kind of brings everybody together is you're there to- for a higher purpose. Uh, and in terms of being an adrenaline junkie-

   13. LFLex Fridman1:11:24

       (laughs)

   14. DLDevon Larratt1:11:25

       ... there's nothing like it. I mean, there's nothing like, you know, going out at night and fighting. Uh, and when I say fighting, like, my whole life I wanted to fight. Uh, and to me, there's a lot of th- and- and lookit, I- I've said this in the past, and I think it's been a personal failure of mine, because I've said things like, "It's the highest level that you can d-" I don't believe that to be true anymore. But at the time, uh, I thought it was the best way I could express, um, my drives that I had, you know, to be a fighter. Um...

   15. LFLex Fridman1:12:00

       So, oh, so your sense in the past, and maybe in part now, is that sort of fighting is when humans get a chance to express themselves deeply. Like, like, that- that mix of, um, the bravery, the integrity, the...

   16. DLDevon Larratt1:12:17

       Yeah.

   17. LFLex Fridman1:12:17

       ... whatever that is that makes us human, that human spirit-

   18. DLDevon Larratt1:12:20

       Right.

   19. LFLex Fridman1:12:20

       ... can really shine.

   20. DLDevon Larratt1:12:21

       And I don't believe that anymore. I believe that you can do that in any field, in any discipline, you know? If you go hard enough, it all kind of starts to feel the same. Um, but at the time, uh, that, you know, expression to me was really- really awesome. I- I loved, I loved close-quarter battle. That was my favorite thing. That's really the whole reason I was there. Uh...

   21. LFLex Fridman1:12:44

       Can you describe close-quarter battle?

   22. DLDevon Larratt1:12:46

       Close-quarter battle is- is team fighting. So, and it can look a lot of different ways, but basically, it's ground troops doing some kind of a mission. And it's the orchestrated movement that is the skill, the orchestrated movement, and the- the drills done quickly and accurately. It's- it's- it's very difficult to do.

   23. LFLex Fridman1:13:10

       With communication?

   24. DLDevon Larratt1:13:11

       ... with communication.

   25. LFLex Fridman1:13:12

       Yeah.

   26. DLDevon Larratt1:13:13

       Oh, yeah.

   27. LFLex Fridman1:13:13

       So, so you're, you're, it's basically cooperating together-

   28. DLDevon Larratt1:13:16

       Absolutely.

   29. LFLex Fridman1:13:16

       ... communicating.

   30. DLDevon Larratt1:13:17

       Yeah.
7. 1:14:22 – 1:21:06

   Arm wrestling

   1. LFLex Fridman1:14:22

      (takes breath) Uh, let me, if it's okay, for a brief moment, to take us back to, um, arm wrestling. We, we, we did this, like offline, we talked about, you gave me some advice and, about arm wrestling. But maybe do a high-level overview of, um, like the different styles and strategies that we've talked about. We talked about the importance of strength and power, but is there like offensive, defensive styles? Is there, we mentioned king's move, uh, what, what, what would you classify your style as? It's, it's nice for people that don't know. Maybe even zoom back out. So arm wrestling is a sport-

   2. DLDevon Larratt1:15:02

      Yeah.

   3. LFLex Fridman1:15:02

      ... where two people have to, uh, when we talk about strictly the sport, put their elbow on a particular pad, means they have to keep that elbow on that pad, and they, uh, win when the back of one of their hands crosses some kind of, or basically touches the table.

   4. DLDevon Larratt1:15:23

      That's it.

   5. LFLex Fridman1:15:24

      And, uh, when you actually lock up, you do so, depending on the organization, without straps, meaning there's just you, agree, it's like mutual agreement that you're going to, uh, uh, clasp your hands in, in a way that's fair, and there's a referee that helps ensure that it's fair. But, of course, there's these little games going on. And then when you actually go all out with this battle, if there's no straps, you can slip out, and so often you'll put the straps, which means you're a, it's like marriage-

   6. DLDevon Larratt1:15:58

      Yep.

   7. LFLex Fridman1:15:58

      ... you're committed. (laughs)

   8. DLDevon Larratt1:15:59

      Yeah.

   9. LFLex Fridman1:16:00

      Uh, for, like, somebody will have to lose, essentially. Uh, there's no pulling out. So th- okay, so that's sort of the battle. Within that, what are the different styles that you can speak to, that people that don't know arm wrestling could, uh, could, could, uh, can understand?

   10. DLDevon Larratt1:16:17

       Yeah, we can start to kind of just dance around the subject a bit.

   11. LFLex Fridman1:16:21

       Yeah.

   12. DLDevon Larratt1:16:21

       I'd say (sighs) there's a lot of different types. There's specialists, and there's kind of blenders, and people who are very versatile. Um, a lot of guys win world championships on one singular move. They get just extremely crisp at, say, a hook or a top roll. And their style is very, kind of focused. And you'll see it with a lot of athletes, like kind of a tough guy bo-, guy who's very active, a guy called Jerry Cadorette. Okay, as soon as you think Jerry Cadorette, he's got a very unique style. He's got a flop wrist press, okay? So most of his technique is built around this one system.

   13. LFLex Fridman1:17:04

       Flop wrists means you're-

   14. DLDevon Larratt1:17:07

       Yes.

   15. LFLex Fridman1:17:08

       ... uh, what it sounds like.

   16. DLDevon Larratt1:17:09

       Yeah.

   17. LFLex Fridman1:17:09

       So your wrists flop, so-

   18. DLDevon Larratt1:17:10

       Yeah.

   19. LFLex Fridman1:17:11

       ... it looks like you're losing.

   20. DLDevon Larratt1:17:11

       But you're pushing.

   21. LFLex Fridman1:17:12

       So he is pushing from a losing position?

   22. DLDevon Larratt1:17:15

       No. He will be offensive. So he will be in a press, so offensively, so he'll give his hand away so that he can get his shoulder behind it properly.

   23. LFLex Fridman1:17:24

       So he doesn't... Wow.

   24. DLDevon Larratt1:17:27

       Right?

   25. LFLex Fridman1:17:27

       So you can press, press means put, like push.

   26. DLDevon Larratt1:17:31

       Push.

   27. LFLex Fridman1:17:31

       Yeah.

   28. DLDevon Larratt1:17:32

       Yeah.

   29. LFLex Fridman1:17:32

       Uh, without having that hook position.

   30. DLDevon Larratt1:17:36

       Right. Which is what most people are always looking for. And Jerry's looking for it as well, and then ... So example, there's another one, there's another specialist, Matt Mask.
8. 1:21:06 – 1:32:39

   Freedom arm wrestling

   1. DLDevon Larratt1:21:06

   2. LFLex Fridman1:21:06

      So we, uh, offline also talked about arm sumo or, uh, freedom arm wrestling.

   3. DLDevon Larratt1:21:11

      Yeah.

   4. LFLex Fridman1:21:11

      I don't know how you want to call it.

   5. DLDevon Larratt1:21:12

      Oh, I love freedom.

   6. LFLex Fridman1:21:13

      But (laughs)

   7. DLDevon Larratt1:21:16

      (laughs)

   8. LFLex Fridman1:21:16

      Uh, exactly, North American way. Uh, (laughs) so what... So this is, this is this idea, and I- I watched a few videos and it looks fun.

   9. DLDevon Larratt1:21:26

      Yeah.

   10. LFLex Fridman1:21:26

       Is basically removing the restriction of having to keep your elbow on the pad and just being able to arm wrestle over the whole table.

   11. DLDevon Larratt1:21:35

       Yeah.

   12. LFLex Fridman1:21:35

       I, I think you've mentioned that the criticism that gets is it might be injury prone or something like that?

   13. DLDevon Larratt1:21:40

       Yeah.

   14. LFLex Fridman1:21:40

       So can you describe this arm sumo, freedom arm wrestling idea?

   15. DLDevon Larratt1:21:45

       Right. When you come to freedom arm wrestling, basically it removes the limitation of a standard arm wrestling table.

   16. LFLex Fridman1:21:52

       Yeah.

   17. DLDevon Larratt1:21:52

       Right? So basically every single thing is a freedom arm wrestling table. Some are better than others, right? So looking for that nice table where we can kind of stand apart from each other and we're anatomically, you know, in a fairly safe position.

   18. LFLex Fridman1:22:06

       Mm-hmm.

   19. DLDevon Larratt1:22:07

       And the rules in freedom, the way you win is like the knuckles must either touch the tabletop-

   20. LFLex Fridman1:22:13

       Mm-hmm.

   21. DLDevon Larratt1:22:14

       ... or you hold it off the edge for a, for a three count, right? So this is the main way to win. Yes. You can foul, like if you lift your elbow up, it's still a foul. But you have the entire playing surface. So your elbow's no longer limited to your seven by seven or seven by nine pad. So you can move it all over the table. You can move your body around the table a bit too.

   22. LFLex Fridman1:22:34

       And if it's a big table, your body could-

   23. DLDevon Larratt1:22:36

       Yeah.

   24. LFLex Fridman1:22:36

       ... largely be on the table. (laughs)

   25. DLDevon Larratt1:22:38

       Yeah, so it basically, it's like adjusting your ring size. So arm wrestling, you're fighting in a phone booth.

   26. LFLex Fridman1:22:43

       Yeah.

   27. DLDevon Larratt1:22:44

       Right? So you, you're fighting in a field, you're fighting, you know, just bigger. So it just-

   28. LFLex Fridman1:22:48

       Yeah.

   29. DLDevon Larratt1:22:48

       It just makes the sport bigger. Yeah. This is Japan.

   30. LFLex Fridman1:22:51

       But even on a small table there, even in a slightly larger phone booth, you can get a, a lot more fun and variety.

Episode duration: 2:10:28