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Lex Fridman PodcastLex Fridman Podcast

Kanye 'Ye' West Interview | Lex Fridman Podcast #332

Ye is a legendary artist, producer, and designer. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Shopify: https://shopify.com/lex to get free trial - InsideTracker: https://insidetracker.com/lex to get 20% off - ExpressVPN: https://expressvpn.com/lexpod to get 3 months free - Athletic Greens: https://athleticgreens.com/lex to get 1 month of fish oil EPISODE LINKS: Ye's Twitter: https://twitter.com/kanyewest Ye's Instagram: https://instagram.com/kanyewest Ye's Website: https://kanyewest.com PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41 OUTLINE: 0:00 - Introduction 0:11 - Engineering 11:05 - Kim Kardashian 12:51 - Sex and the future of humanity 22:57 - Happiness 25:33 - The Holocaust 1:14:43 - Fashion 1:30:15 - 2024 US election 1:34:55 - Humor 1:37:04 - Media and antisemitism 1:49:07 - Trusting people 1:52:21 - Accountability 2:02:20 - Legacy 2:03:12 - Advice for young people 2:16:13 - Regret SOCIAL: - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman - Reddit: https://reddit.com/r/lexfridman - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman

Lex FridmanhostYe (Kanye West)guest
Oct 24, 20222h 26mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:11

    Introduction

    1. LF

      The following is a conversation with Ye, the legendary artist, producer, and designer formerly known as Kanye West, on this, The Lex Fridman Podcast.

  2. 0:11 – 11:05

    Engineering

    1. LF

    2. YW

      Based off of our connection, and just you being a friend, I need to show you my two tech companies and get your perspective on it. 'Cause now I have friends that can give a perspective. Like, when I would work on albums, I had other friends that worked on albums and they would give me their perspectives on it.

    3. LF

      You wanna do this? (sighs)

    4. YW

      We are doing it. This is part of it.

    5. LF

      This is part of it?

    6. YW

      Absolutely.

    7. LF

      All right. Beautiful.

    8. YW

      Oh, what I wanted to finish, the thing is, okay, you're gonna ask me different questions. But I'm about growing and building and bringing the idea to life. So when I see you, I say, "Oh, this guy understands how to hire engineers." Where I'm coming from, coming from Hollywood, coming from press, coming from media, all of the guys, you know, that... So many of the guys that have been like voices and faces and talking heads, whatever, have not understood how to engineer product. And that's the reason why I was able to jump past everyone in the entertainment field and become, um, you know, whatever the net worth is, 11 billion. I'm gonna stop putting the whole Black thing on my worth. Like, let's just see where I am on the scale of life, because that's a cop out for me to say richest Black guy of all time, because that's feeding into the same, you know, trauma economy that Black Lives Matter feeds into. That's why I love and respect engineers. That's the only thing that we really need to teach in school, is engineering. We don't need to teach history. We don't need to teach anything that is subjective. It needs to only be engineering taught in school. And everything else needs to be recess. Nothing that, at all, any forced subjective information is just to weaken and indoctrinate our species. And that's what schools do now.

    9. LF

      As an engineer, I love hearing you say that. But to push back, history is not... The interpretation of history might be subjective, but history has some facts, and they're useful to give a grounding to the way you do engineering.

    10. YW

      I don't 100% believe in anything, any concept of the future or any concept of history, because history was just written by the victors.

    11. LF

      Yeah. That's right.

    12. YW

      So if I see stuff happen on the day that later that day is reported wrong, so how wrong is something reported 1,000 years ago? And why would we argue about something that's not in the now? Because that's the only thing that everyone can agree upon is that it is now, right now.

    13. LF

      Yeah. Well, you try not to make the mistakes of the past. That's the usefulness of history.

    14. YW

      The-

    15. LF

      The limited usefulness of history.

    16. YW

      The biggest mistake from the past that we keep making is looking at the past.

    17. LF

      Too much. Giving too much value to the past.

    18. YW

      Too much value to the past. We are now. We are now. We are here. We are one species. We are one race. We're here. And it's time. And the leadership is changing, because you have Elon as a leader, Ye as a leader, and we're the top leaders. We're more influential than the presidents.

    19. LF

      So you're a human being with engineering challenges before you, with Stump Player, with Parler. What's the hardest thing in front of you on the engineering front?

    20. YW

      That's the first sentence that any of our species needs to hear when they're born. You are a human being with engineering challenges.

    21. LF

      (laughs)

    22. YW

      And I consider, sh- sh- consider challenges to be opportunities-

    23. LF

      Yeah.

    24. YW

      ... in front of you.

    25. LF

      Yeah.

    26. YW

      Literally, like let, let me see a piece of paper. I need to write that down. That's the beginning-

    27. LF

      (laughs) That's a good line.

    28. YW

      ... of our new species constitution.

    29. LF

      (laughs)

    30. YW

      (laughs) I'm gonna do the page- paper like this wide.

  3. 11:05 – 12:51

    Kim Kardashian

    1. LF

      What's your, uh, favorite thing, the thing you love the most about Kim from a Mario perspective, and the princess, looking back? Was there a moment-

    2. YW

      She's definitely my favorite of all time.

    3. LF

      Yeah. Was there a moment that, you know, like that catches you off guard, and you say, "I love this human being"?

    4. YW

      Yeah. I mean, it's just the, the DNA is like she's a mix of Rob and Chris.

    5. LF

      Can you explain?

    6. YW

      I mean, that's like a really high pool right there. (laughs) Those are like two geniuses. (laughs)

    7. LF

      (laughs) So, okay. So like-

    8. YW

      (laughs)

    9. LF

      ... the entire of history of, uh, evolution of the human species created this DNA that created this being. There's a life there. There's a set of memories and a history that brought you together, and you're like, "Damn. I like this DNA."

    10. YW

      Yeah. And ce- certain people have just like high DNA. Ivanka Trump has high DNA. You know, it's like-

    11. LF

      How's your DNA? Pretty good?

    12. YW

      Uh, I- I- I think we've seen that. It's been proven. (laughs)

    13. LF

      (laughs)

    14. YW

      I mean, but look at my, look at my mom and look at my dad. You know, me and my dad have a water purification center in the DR, uh, right now. And my, my dad is the original Steve Jobs, and he was blocked by people around him, and people were using him and taking advantage, and you know, not believing in his vision. He's- my dad's the educated version of Ye.

  4. 12:51 – 22:57

    Sex and the future of humanity

    1. YW

    2. LF

      What'd you learn about life from your dad?

    3. YW

      And my dad got girls too.

    4. LF

      But those are small details.

    5. YW

      That's a big detail.

    6. LF

      Is it?

    7. YW

      Being that I found my dad's, you know, Playboy when I was five years old. It a- it, uh, it, uh, greatly affected my motivation.

    8. LF

      Yeah? Okay, so that's part of the engine that drives Ye.

    9. YW

      Absolutely. I remember when Pharrell was first in all the videos, and my girl was like, uh, "Girls like Pharrell." And I was like, "I want girls to like me too."

    10. LF

      Funny that that's behind all the ambition, all the drive, is the-

    11. YW

      Well, it's how we make people. It's how people are made.

    12. LF

      It's the desire to be loved. Is that at the individual level, just being noticed, and also at the societal level of scale?

    13. YW

      Well, now, I've, I've gone past. I'm like at that place where Nikola Tesla was, uh, later into his career, where it wasn't about being loved, it wasn't about sitting at the dinner parties next to Anna Wintour and stuff. It was about getting the idea across. So I have these cells that are very, and I just keep on saying Ridley Scott, but Ridley Scott has a special anointing. It isn't just sci-fi, what he's doing. There's something in there. Just like George Lucas. There's something different that's there. So...

    14. LF

      What are you drawing?

    15. YW

      I'm drawing these new living cells that we will exist in.

    16. LF

      Hmm.

    17. YW

      And this is over, okay, let's do like... I don't like talking about money, because like, man-made money anywa- is like four quadrillion respected dollars, and then you have other forms of currency. Of course, ser- social currency is super important right now. But this is a drawing, and it's at a pretty good place now. This will be 40,000 square feet. I wanna start just talking in meters. I just think we should go to anything to restore the Tower of Babel, like they said when the, uh... I'm just gonna draw a person here for scale. Uh...

    18. LF

      Yeah, that would help.

    19. YW

      Okay. What do you think of that? Look at my person, see the scale in this room? All right, so...

    20. LF

      Wait, the dot is the person?

    21. YW

      Yeah. I'm saying it's 40,000 square feet, but that would be like the-

    22. LF

      What are the other parts of the cell?

    23. YW

      Okay, so what it, it's a screen. It doesn't go all the, all the way to the top, and it's one hole for light. But the water and the light and air all come in from the top, so that's like, like the mouth, and then this is the belly button. We're God's iPhone, we're his greatest creation.

    24. LF

      So th- this is all connected? These are all connected?

    25. YW

      Yeah, so I'm drawing how these other cells go next to each other.

    26. LF

      What's the vision here?

    27. YW

      Happiness. Then we talk about like what's the motivation. Like, yeah, there's a motivation somewhere in the back of my mind of my family. And if it's like where Moses smite the rock, and God didn't allow him to get to the promised land, because the promised land is family. That is the promis- that is earth, I mean, that is heaven on earth, is family. Family is heaven, that's the promised land, and for your family to be together. Uh, so say I smite the rock and God doesn't let me have my family back. My mission in life is still to promote families at all costs, and make families' existence easier. So you take this thing, you put localized, a localized farm, say if it's in a community, that we, we do localized growing, and then we partner with big pharma, and on, and say, "Hey, you're actually gonna make more money by making better food." 'Cause at the end of the day, you want money right now. It's like everyone knows that between the pesticides and between the medical industry, and especially America, that we're keeping people sick. And we know that McDonald's makes food that kills people, and you know, Coca-Cola's selling, you know, sugar water, and all this. Like, just in case I haven't pissed off enough people in power.

    28. LF

      Yeah.

    29. YW

      Okay? (laughs) So...

    30. LF

      You're gonna piss off the sugar, any, anybody that's powered on sugar, yeah.

  5. 22:57 – 25:33

    Happiness

    1. YW

    2. LF

      Are you- are you- are you happy?

    3. YW

      Absolutely. I'm just here. It's actually... It's difficult to make me unhappy. Now I can deal with frustrations, but when those frustrations are, it's like (sighs) when you've allowed people to be in your life that shouldn't be there, and then they do the thing you knew they were gonna do, and you're screaming at them but you really need to scream at yourself.

    4. LF

      Yeah, so you realize anything that's like anger or frustration, that's something that's wrong with you that needs to be dealt with?

    5. YW

      Yes. Like, right now, okay, say I got this pattern cutter that I wanted to remove because I felt like she was copying our patterns into the computer, and I didn't know why she wanted to do that, and I just wanted to do the patterns by hand. And then, you know-

    6. LF

      You mean like automating the patterns? Is that what you mean?

    7. YW

      Yeah, and my head of a... Because they just... That's the whole thing. It's like... It's a war of- it's a war of human beings and robots. And so...

    8. LF

      Yeah, but that makes it more efficient, right? You don't like the efficiency. You like the creativity of- the singular nature of the pattern.

    9. YW

      ... I believe that the human beings, and I'm saying this to you as a person who makes robots and a person who's friends with people-

    10. LF

      I'm deeply offended right now.

    11. YW

      Yeah. (laughs)

    12. LF

      But I'll, you know, I'll let it go.

    13. YW

      Okay.

    14. LF

      It's good.

    15. YW

      So, yeah, I believe that the-

    16. LF

      Ye hates robots. Not, I'm not gonna put that out there. It's a joke.

    17. YW

      Ro- robots have feelings too.

    18. LF

      Yeah. Uh, yeah, that's right.

    19. YW

      That was also a joke.

    20. LF

      Was it? We need to clarify that-

    21. YW

      (laughs)

    22. LF

      ... for future robots. But the pattern cutter, the pattern cutter, you don't like that. That had to be that, that's... You can't have that part of your life.

    23. YW

      That's not what I'm, I'm... My, everything that I'm doing is for the sake of the human race. There's things in capitalism, there's things in technology. Well, tech- technology and original human species can exist in a peaceful way. As long as the people that know how to make robots aren't using their robots to control the humans. Lex?

    24. LF

      It definitely is something you have to be concerned about-

  6. 25:33 – 1:14:43

    The Holocaust

    1. LF

    2. YW

      (laughs)

    3. LF

      ... as we become more technologically savvy. That, my friend-

    4. YW

      (laughs)

    5. LF

      ... is why engineering isn't everything. That you have to desperately study the lessons of history. In Nazi Germany, science was used to create atrocities. Engineering, the same. Engineering could be a tool of war.

    6. YW

      We, we are still in the Holocaust. Uh, a friend, a Jewish friend of mine said, "Let, uh, come, go visit the Holocaust museum." And my response was, "Let's visit our Holocaust museum, Planned Parenthood."

    7. LF

      With all due respect-

    8. YW

      (laughs)

    9. LF

      ... I grew up in the Soviet Union. I'm Jewish. Parts of my family perished in the, in the Holocaust of Nazi Germany. I have to push back, that there is a difference of the atrocities at that scale, at that time, on an entire people.

    10. YW

      I was gonna say the number, that's the difference.

    11. LF

      It's not the number.

    12. YW

      Because 6 million... Well, also, African-Americans are actually Jew also, the lost tribe of Israel.

    13. LF

      I can push back on that too. (laughs)

    14. YW

      Okay. So, well, everyone came from Africa.

    15. LF

      I am African. I'm basically-

    16. YW

      Go ahead.

    17. LF

      ... African-American. We're brothers.

    18. YW

      And we're both Jew, and we're brothers.

    19. LF

      (laughs)

    20. YW

      So-

    21. LF

      We're human.

    22. YW

      Six million people died in the Holocaust, over 20 million have died by the hands of abortion. And the media promotes the, my body, my choice, which is actually still a promotion for Planned Parenthood. 50% of Black deaths a year is actually abortion. It's not, it's not the cop with the knee, it's not Black on Black violence and gang violence, it's not heart attacks. It's actually abortion. The most dangerous place for a Black person in America is in their mother's stomach.

    23. LF

      There's 900 to a million abortions in the United States a year. I hear you. But there's something about the rape, the torture, the murder of children, women, men. The complete, complete humiliation and just the suffering that was endured during World War II-

    24. YW

      That's what we deal with on-

    25. LF

      ... is unscathed.

    26. YW

      ... our TVs right now with Black people. Uh, a Soros would use Black trauma economy for, to win an election. And what I love is having a healthy conversation. And as opposed to... There's certain things, you know, boom, this drops, people are gonna have pussy hats on. Boom, this drops, it's gonna be, you know, Black people and white people with signs. Boom, this drops, so hey, China, hey, left agenda, hey. What we're gonna do is say that our species can have a healthy conversation. Do... It's-

    27. LF

      Can I just linger on this? Because when you say Jewish media, it, there's a echo of a pain that people feel that reminds an entire-

    28. YW

      You saying it, you're saying it's redundant, right?

    29. LF

      Huh? No, I'm not saying it's redundant. I'm saying-

    30. YW

      I'm saying it's redundant.

  7. 1:14:43 – 1:30:15

    Fashion

    1. YW

      and died for our sins.

    2. LF

      What do you feel about another attack? Another painful thing, I imagine super painful is, uh, Balenciaga pulling, um, uh... You had a really close relationship and friendship with their, uh, creative director. Like, how do you feel about all of it?

    3. YW

      I told you, I sang the song. I'll sing another song from one of my mentors, Future. "I never felt pain, I done felt too much pain." (laughs) Like, there was a day where I was headed to Nashville to meet with George Farmer, who is the CEO of Parler, the, the day when we made the announcement. At that same day, uh, Balenciaga, uh, was taking my imagery off of their site and, uh, the Drink Champs was being taken down. And I said, "This is the happiest day of my life." I love cutting the grass low. People wasn't really with you, they was part-time. People switch up when it's wartime. I'd rather have people who are really with me and not people who are just trying to use me.

    4. LF

      Listen, as a friend, as somebody who cares for you, you have to be really careful by the people, by all people always. The people that are gonna be, try to be close to you now, you don't know if you can trust them any more than-

    5. YW

      Even more. Uh, with the Balenciaga one I want, I have more to say about it though.

    6. LF

      Yeah. Please.

    7. YW

      Let's do this.

    8. LF

      Yeah.

    9. YW

      Demna will still work for Ye someday, and this is just speeding the process up.

    10. LF

      Have you talked? Can you share if you've talked?

    11. YW

      Yes, I'll, I talked to Demna. This is like, we're kindred spirits. None of this can keep us away from each other. I brought Demna to Gap to be able to bring the best product in the world. At that time, I wanted to go under $100. Now I'm like, "Okay, we're gonna go $20 a product." Uh, I brought Demna in to engineer, that's why it said engineered by Balenciaga, Yeezy Gap engineered by Balenciaga, to engineer the best product for the people. The people that, that they say are at the bottom of the Maslow hierarchy need chart, right? (laughs) They're at the, they're at the bottom of the pyramid.

    12. LF

      Mm-hmm.

    13. YW

      Right? So Gap didn't want that. Balenciaga didn't want that. Our agendas were not aligned. I was brought in to the Gap for political reasons and influence, like a Virgil, like a George Floyd. When popular celebrities are brought into Fortune 500 companies, it's not to raise the stock, it's to strengthen the position and influence, and it's definitely not to be out here letting a nigga think he's Steve Jobs.

    14. LF

      Yeah, there's people like that.

    15. YW

      (laughs)

    16. LF

      But you, as a great man and visionary, your job is to understand that game and be one step ahead.

    17. YW

      Well, that's why I'm telling them. That relationship... You know, some relationships only last for a summer.

    18. LF

      Yeah.

    19. YW

      You know, some last for a year. The relationship ran its course. You know, in that relationship, I invested a lot of my social capital and actual capital there. I spent somewhere between five to $10 million personally on Balenciaga. How much money do you think Balenciaga had paid me in the past two years?

    20. LF

      Um...

    21. YW

      Just take a really wild guess, a really wild guess.

    22. LF

      Less than that?

    23. YW

      Just take a super wild one. Just go to your, the furthest extent of your imagination.

    24. LF

      1.2 million.

    25. YW

      Lower.

    26. LF

      500,000.

    27. YW

      Lower.

    28. LF

      Zero.

    29. YW

      Zero.

    30. LF

      All right.

  8. 1:30:15 – 1:34:55

    2024 US election

    1. LF

      now I understand.

    2. YW

      (laughs) Yeah.

    3. LF

      It's very nice. Congratulations.

    4. YW

      (laughs)

    5. LF

      Uh, I know you don't talk about it, but your hat does say 24.

    6. YW

      Yeah.

    7. LF

      Um, if, if you run for president, what kind of ideas would you represent?

    8. YW

      That we're beings with engineering opportunities. I would represent... Just as you served a platform here, there's something that happened on my last run that-... I thought, I feel, I know was brilliant. It was noisy but it was brilliant. I had one rally, and in the rally, I just let people come up and I gave them a platform. It's our responsibility to listen to the pain and hear the pain and understand, even when we're the ones that caused the pain, like with my tweet. It's my responsibility to hear you and understand why you feel like that, but it's our responsibility as a people to understand each other.

    9. LF

      To give people a voice.

    10. YW

      People need the voice, and even right now, what I'm doing or how God is using me, I'm showing where our voices are being muted. There's professors that are actually intelligent, actually have multiple degrees that have been canceled from their schools, and they don't have a music industry or a fan base or a shoe design or a smoking hot ex-wife to complain about. They've just got the truth of what they saw and what they dedicated to this country and to education that has been muted by schools that have been taken over with an agenda. And so you're- you want the brightest minds to be these professors, and then you mute them, and they have nowhere to go. And you might get a guy now that went from being someone's favorite professor to he's working at Starbucks like, like he was back in school, or like he was back in high school.

    11. LF

      So even if that voice is about anger and hate, it still deserves to be heard.

    12. YW

      Yeah, it deserves to be heard, and we deserve to ask why, you know? Like, we, you have to ask why. I just feel like that's what's... I feel like that is sympathizing Mr. Hugecock. I'm just saying (laughs) that it just needs to be... (laughs)

Episode duration: 2:26:29

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