MrBeast: Future of YouTube, Twitter, TikTok, and Instagram | Lex Fridman Podcast #351

Lex Fridman 0:00 I'm here with MrBeast, the brilliant mastermind behind some of the most popular videos ever created. Uh, do you think you'll ever make a video that gets one billion views?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 0:09 I think maybe one of the videos we've already made might get a billion views.

Lex Fridman 0:13 Which one, do you think?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 0:14 Probably, like, the, the Squid Game video, with enough time. I mean, it's only a year old and it's already on 300 million or... Some of the newer ones we've, we've done have gotten, like, 100 million views in a month. Um, so those four projected over 10 years, 'cause YouTube's not going anywhere. Probably one of those.

Lex Fridman 0:28 So over time, they don't necessarily plateau?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 0:30 What's interesting... Oh, uh, we're literally jumping right in-

Lex Fridman 0:32 Yeah, let's go.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 0:32 I love it. It's good. Um, so I, I'm a firm believer that it's much easier to hypothetically get 10 million views on one video than 100,000 on 100. And part of why it's much easier, in my opinion, is, like, if you make a really good video, it's just so evergreen and it never dies. 'Cause YouTube, when you open up YouTube and look at the videos, they're just serving you whatever they, they think you'll like the best, you know? And so if you just make a great video, um, and it's constantly just above every other video, you know, ev- even two years down the road, then they'll just keep serving it and never stop, you know? Which is why it's much easier to make one great video than a bunch of mediocre ones.

Lex Fridman 1:07 What about one billion subscribers? You've, uh, passed PewDiePie as the most subscribed to YouTube channel.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 1:13 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 1:14 Uh, when do you think you'll get a billion?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 1:16 Uh, let me do some math real quick. So we're on 120-

Lex Fridman 1:19 So you think about this?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 1:20 No, I don't, honestly. I... 'Cause one thing you'll find, if you want to gain subscribers, if you want to get views, if you want to make money, any... Almost any metric in this, uh, video creation space, if you want something, it all comes back to, okay, well then just make great videos. So instead of, like, focusing on all these arbitrary vanity metrics, I just kind of focus on the one thing that gets me all that, which is make good videos. But... And that, I do think we will one day hit a billion subscribers. Like, I don't have a plan on going anywhere. Even though we're only on 120 million right now on the main channel, I think... Like, we're doing around 10 million a month now and, um, YouTube just... Yeah, I just don't see it going anywhere and I, I don't see any reason why I'd ever get burnt out or quit. So I think with enough time, yes.

Lex Fridman 2:00 Uh, I wanted to ask you those family-friendly questions before I go to the dark questions. So now we- (laughs)

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 2:04 Oh, we-

Lex Fridman 2:05 Now-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 2:05 Have dark questions? Wait, no, no. But if you wanted to hook them, you would start off with the dark questions.

Lex Fridman 2:09 That's true.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 2:09 That, that's how you get them.

Lex Fridman 2:10 Okay. Well, let me ask you about the... A Twitter poll you posted, a $10,000 death poll.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 2:17 Ooh, yes.

Lex Fridman 2:17 You tweeted, "If someone offered you $10,000 but if you take it, a random person on earth dies, would you take the $10,000?" And, uh, 45% (laughs) of people said yes. That's, at least at the time I checked, 850,000 people-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 2:32 Wow.

Lex Fridman 2:32 Committing murder for just $8.5 billion in total. So, uh, what do you learn about human nature from that?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 2:41 That's a, a good question. Um, honestly, it was... This was, like, late at night when I threw that up too. I was just like, "Huh, this will be a funny thing." I assumed it'd be 90% no and, like, 10% yes.

Lex Fridman 2:51 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 2:51 But there, there are a lot of serious people. Um, for you guys listening, I, I just did this random Twitter poll where I was like, "Would you take 10 grand if it meant someone random in the world died?"

Lex Fridman 3:00 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 3:00 And a lot of the replies on this tweet were like, "Hell yeah, why not?" And I was just not expecting that. Um, and so I don't really know. I mean, I feel like your take would be better than mine.

Lex Fridman 3:09 Was that disturbing to you, surprising to you?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 3:11 A little bit, yeah. But I... You know, obviously, a lot of the people were trolling-

Lex Fridman 3:14 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 3:14 But I actually... You know, when you read through those replies, I do think, like, 10% of them were, like, dead serious.

Lex Fridman 3:20 Well, I think sometimes the trolling and the lols reveal a thing we're too embarrassed to admit about the darker aspects of our nature. So I don't know if you listen to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast. He has a episode on painfultainment-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 3:34 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 3:35 In which he describes, throughout history, how humans have been really attracted to watching the suffering of others. So, um, public executions, all that kind of stuff.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 3:45 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 3:45 And he believes that's in all of us. That, for example, if something like a YouTube or a different platform streamed a public execution or streamed the torture of another human being, a lot of people would, uh, say that's deeply unethical but they would still tune in and watch.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 4:04 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 4:04 And that we're, we're attracted to that drama, and especially the most extreme versions of that drama. And so I think part of the lols reveal something that's actually true in that poll, that, like-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 4:17 Your answer is so much better than mine.

Lex Fridman 4:18 Do you think about that, maybe even with the Squid Game? Like, so I think you... How many... Do you... How many views does the Squid Game currently have? 300 million?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 4:28 Yeah, something around there.

Lex Fridman 4:28 Something like this? So just imagine, a thought experiment, how many views that video would get if it was, like, real-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 4:39 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 4:39 Squid Game.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 4:39 Assuming YouTube was like, "Ah, we'll turn a blind eye. We won't take it down." Yeah, I mean, it... Obv- obviously, it'd probably have billions of views.

Lex Fridman 4:47 How do you think you will die and do you think it will be during a video?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 4:49 Probably doing something dumb like going to space when I'm in the older... Like, trying to go to Mars or, or something like that. I, I know for a fact it won't be on a video. Every video we do with safety experts and stuff like that, so it's not really a risk. But, um, yeah, I could see myself, like... You know, after a million people go to Mars or something like that, I'd probably be like, "You know what? Let's go," and, and something like that maybe.

Lex Fridman 5:09 So not in the name of a video, just-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 5:11 No.

Lex Fridman 5:11 ... for the hell of it?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 5:12 Heck no.

Lex Fridman 5:13 Are you open to taking risks when you shoot videos? You just went to Antarctica. I mean, like, you're, you're putting yourself on the line a little bit, right?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 5:19 Of course, but, you know, we, we've had that video in the works for three years, and then we consult with tons of experts, radar, the entire path we're gonna walk beforehand to see if there's crevasses. So we know there's no crevasses. We do training, we consult with experts, and we have survival guides there with us and, you know, monitor the weather and everything. So it's like ev- any variable that, where we could get harmed, we just pre-plan for it. Same thing with Buried Alive. Like, I had... David Blaine spent a, a week underground, and so I consulted with him and consulted with basically

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 5:46 anyone who ever buried themself alive. You know, we... The coffin we used to bury me, we did so many tests. Like, that coffin was buried 10 times before I was, you know, for way longer than 50 hours. It tested the airflow and everything to the point where I was safer in that coffin underground than I was above ground. Like, so we just tend to just not leave anything up to chance, you know?

Lex Fridman 6:05 Another strange question then, uh-So you recorded these videos f- to yourself, you know, five years, 10 years from now. Have you recorded a video that's to be released once you die?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 6:17 Well, first off, I am just glad that not every one of your questions have to do with, like, views or things like that. It's nice getting different questions. So this is... This is good. Um, no, seriously.

Lex Fridman 6:27 It's a little dark. It's a little dark.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 6:27 No, no, but it's, it's fine because a lot of people just be like, "How much money do you make?" You know, just something that just... Everything's always about money now or for when people talk to me, so it's nice. Um, but for the videos I made, uh, for you guys who probably don't follow me too closely, when I had 8,000 subscribers when I was a teenager, I filmed a bunch of videos and scheduled them years in the future. And I said... I filmed one where I was like, "Hi me in a year," and the video went up a year later, and it was just like, "Hey, I think you'll have 100,000 subscribers." And then, I did one where I was like, "Hi me in five years." I was like, "Hey, in five years, I think you'll have a million," and then one that hasn't come out yet but comes out in two years is... was, "Hi me in 10 years," and I tried to predict 10 years later how many subs I'd have. That's what he's referring to. And yes, there, there are some that are scheduled, like, 20 years in the future. And so, if I don't die, I'll just move them up. And I remember, 'cause I filmed these though, like, seven years ago, but, uh, it was... I remember saying a line like, you know, "If I'm dead, then I'm currently just in a coffin." And like whatever, blah, blah, blah. And because-

Lex Fridman 7:24 I do remember that.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 7:24 ... the only way the video would go up is if I'm not alive, and if I'm not alive, then I won't be able to push back the schedule upload date so it will go public automatically.

Lex Fridman 7:32 Yes.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 7:32 And so, yeah, I have a couple of those. Uh, like if I knew I was gonna die of, like, cancer or something and I had like three months to live, I would vlog every day. I'd film so many videos, and then I would just schedule upload a video a week for, like, the next five years so it's like I'm still alive. And I would completely act like I'm still alive and everything. And I think something like that would be cool. It's... I don't know why, but I've, I've fantasized ab- not fantasized, but I've dreamt about that a lot. Like, I don't know, if, if I only had 30 days to live, what would I do? And for me, I would try to make like a decade's worth of content and schedule upload it so they automatically go public in the future, and so it's just like I never died. I'm just there.

Lex Fridman 8:10 Yeah, it's a kind of imm- immortality, but it's also a kind of troll on the concept of time.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 8:16 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 8:16 That you can die in the physical space, but persist in the digital space. I actually... I recorded a video like that 'cause I had some concerns, and I just thought it's also a good exercise to do, a video what, like, to be released if I die, and it was actually a really interesting exercise.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 8:33 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 8:33 It's cool. Like, it shows, like, what you really care about. I guess it's like writing a will, but when you're younger, you don't think about that kind of stuff, but-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 8:39 Exactly. Mine was just dumb.

Lex Fridman 8:40 Yeah. (laughs)

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 8:41 Like, I'm, I'm bones in a coffin. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 8:44 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 8:44 Yours is probably so serious.

Lex Fridman 8:45 No, it's fun actually. What, what you realize is, like, there's no point to be serious at this point. It's a weird thing. I guess you've done this, but it's a weird thing to address the world when you, the physical you, is no longer there. So, like, you know this would only be released if you're no longer there.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 9:00 Exactly.

Lex Fridman 9:00 That's a weird exercise.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 9:01 And you know what's funny? Of all the people listening to this-

Lex Fridman 9:03 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 9:03 ... you know, we're probably the only two people that have made videos for when we die. (laughs) It's, like, such a niche thing.

Lex Fridman 9:10 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 9:10 And the fact that we're bonding over it's kind of funny.

Lex Fridman 9:12 I think people should think about doing that. It's not just about YouTube, it's also social media 'cause think about it. Like, there's gonna be a last tweet, and a last, I don't know, Facebook post, or a last Instagram post. And, uh, yeah, it's... I feel like there's some aspect that's meditative to just even considering making a post like that, and also, it's a way for your... the people that love you to kinda, like, celebrate.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 9:37 Do you think that would help them cope or not? Like, if someone randomly watching this did film a video, you know, for if they accidentally die in some freak accident to be given to their family, do you think that would... And it was, like, a genuine-

Lex Fridman 9:48 I think it would really help. I mean, it depends because, like-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 9:50 Like, how would you even intro that? Like, "Hey mom, if you're seeing this, you know, it means I'm probably dead."

Lex Fridman 9:55 Yeah, exactly. That's how you intro it.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 9:57 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 9:57 That's the opener.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 9:59 "Oh, I just want you to know." Yeah, I guess.

Lex Fridman 10:01 Yeah. And I guess you could say it in a kind of funny way but, um... and just talk about the things that you... that mean a lot to you 'cause otherwise, you're at the risk of the last post you have is, like, like, I don't know, talking shit about, like-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 10:14 McDonald's

Narrator 10:14 screwed up my order.

Lex Fridman 10:15 ... McDonald's. Exactly. (laughs) That's-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 10:16 And then, and then you're dead. That's it. 100 years.

Lex Fridman 10:19 I don't know.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 10:19 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 10:19 This... I, I, I do recommend. It's, um, like the Stoics meditate on death every day. In the same way, you kind of m- meditate on your death when you make a video like that 'cause it's actually not just even talking to yourself, it's talking to the world. And it, like... For some reason, at least for me, that made it very concrete that there's going to be an end. And I'm like, "It's almost... It's over for me. Bec-... If I'm making the video, it's over for me." It's just an interesting thought experiment. I recommend people, um, try it. Okay. Uh, (laughs) from... Are you afraid of death by the way?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 10:51 Yes. I, I've... It's hard because, like, what if you just die and then you just see nothing forever, you know?

Lex Fridman 10:59 Yeah, the nothingness.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 11:00 It just fades to blackness and you're just like that for trillions upon trillions to billion-squared years, and it's just... It's scary. But also, before you were born, you don't remember those, what, X amount of years either, so, um, that gives me a little comfort, but no, it's definitely very scary. Something I'd rather not think about until I'm, like, 80. I'll, I'll deal with that problem then. I, I, I don't know if I told you this, but I'm kind of hopeful that someone like Elon or one of these, like, freak smart people will just, like, be like, "You know what? Screw it. I'm gonna figure out a way where we can slow down aging, get it where, you know, we can live to be 200, 300 years old," and just, like, set their sights on that, and then just kind of save us, so it'd be really nice. Like, it's, it's almost absurd to think that in our lifetime, they won't figure out a way to just even slightly slow down aging, where we can live to be, like, 120 or 130, and then in that extra time, they won't figure out someway where we can live to be 200. Like, obviously, not immortal, but I don't, I don't see how, in my lifetime, the life expectancy doesn't just expand.

Lex Fridman 11:56 Well, it also could be that the immortality is achieved in the digital realm. Like, could, could be long bef- long after you're gone, there's a Mr. Beast run by a ChatGPT type system.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 12:06 Exactly. Yeah, that consumes everything I ever said, everything I ever wrote, and, uh... But I don't want that. I wanna live.One of you smart people out there figure it out. I'll keep you entertained, but I need you to figure out how to keep me alive.

Lex Fridman 12:17 (laughs)

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 12:17 G- give me 'til 200, uh, that will make me happy.

Lex Fridman 12:20 Well, that's- that's funny. Who owns the identity of- of MrBeast once the physical body is gone? Like are- is it illegal to create another MrBeast that's ChatGPT based? I don't know what the laws are around that.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 12:31 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 12:31 Like...

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 12:32 I mean, once I'm dead, I- I don't care. (laughs) Uh...

Lex Fridman 12:34 Well...

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 12:35 But... (laughs)

Lex Fridman 12:35 Well, you just said you did care. I mean, there could be a- a AI, like, mini MrBeasts that are created after- after you're gone.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 12:41 Yeah. I mean, that'd be cool to be able to, like, train up a model and- and let him loose, so my content lives on, I guess. Yeah.

Lex Fridman 12:48 Yeah. But it somehow feels like it diminishes the value you contribute.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 12:53 Inauthentic. Yeah. Yeah.

Lex Fridman 12:53 Yeah, it's in- inauthentic, but it's also... There's- there's some aspect to the finiteness of the art being necessary for its greatness.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 13:02 Oh, 100%. Yeah, once- the second that thing starts spamming out videos-

Lex Fridman 13:04 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 13:04 ... the videos lose all meaning and it's pointless. Then, it's a money grab.

Lex Fridman 13:09 If you ran YouTube for, uh, how long should you run it? For a year. How would you change it? How would you improve it?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 13:15 It's hard because, you know, obviously I'm biased 'cause we're- we're doing really well. But I feel like when I open up YouTube on my television, I get the videos I wanna watch. I don't... I don't know. I don't... I don't ever open it and- and wonder like, "What are these? What are these 10 videos on my homepage?" When I click on a video on my suggestions, I don't ever wonder what these are. Like I- I... A- and maybe it's 'cause I'm very a- adamant about like the kind of videos I watch, and I try not to watch videos that I don't want to get recommended more.

Lex Fridman 13:41 Mm-hmm.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 13:41 Because I just-

Lex Fridman 13:42 Sure.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 13:42 That's how I think, but I'm very happy with- with how it is at the moment. I think th- one thing though that I just hate with a passion is the comment section on YouTube. It's just so bad. Um, but that... I know that's not something that's gonna 10X the growth of the platform. But if you think about it, you go to Reddit to read comments and somehow, like, the... You know, usually the top 20 posts on- on a popular Reddit post are not spam.

Lex Fridman 14:05 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 14:05 You know what I mean? Like, have you ever clicked on something on the front page of Reddit and then most upvoted reply to it is like, "Go check out my site right here," and it's like trying to scam you out of $1,000?

Lex Fridman 14:14 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 14:14 You know, I can't even think of one instance I've ever had that happen. So, like, Reddit, it's so nice to click on posts and just see what people have to say. And I almost wish like you had that same feeling when you read the comments on a YouTube video. Instead, it's like... It's so many people just copy and pasting, so many bots that just grab the top comment from your previous video and paste it over, so the top comments on every videos are the same. And if the things that break through that are just scammers trying to get you to give them $1,000 for a free, uh, you know, fake ad.

Lex Fridman 14:40 That comment section is one of the most lively on the internet. And so, it'd be amazing if YouTube invested in creating an actual community, like where people could do high effort comments and be rewarded for it, like on Reddit.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 14:51 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 14:51 Like actually wr- write out a long thing.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 14:52 That would make me so happy 'cause like when I upload a video, I usually go to Twitter to see feedback. Like I- I read my comments and I'll flip through newest, but it's just... I feel like T- Reddit and Twitter just give me so much better filtered feedback.

Lex Fridman 15:06 Mm-hmm.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 15:07 Especially now that with Twitter Blue, because people pay $8 a month, um, the- any... I've noticed like any tweets I get from verified users now, they're usually not just garbage troll takes. Like these are people paying $8 a month. Like they're usually relatively sensible. And so it's been pretty nice. Like after I upload a video, I just go on the verified tab on Twitter and just see what people have to say. And yeah, anyways, I live for the day that YouTube's like

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 15:31 that.

Lex Fridman 15:31 Uh, what do you think about Twitter? What do you think about all the fun activity happening recently since, uh, Elon-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 15:39 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 15:39 ... uh, bought Twitter?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 15:41 I think he should make me CEO, like I tweeted. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 15:46 (laughs) Well, I shou- I should say sort of we had w- we just, like a couple hours ago, had a conversation with Elon and, uh, you guys had an exchange of some excellent ideas, so...

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 15:55 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 15:55 Yeah, I- I- I legitimately think... Obviously you're exceptionally busy, but, uh, I legitimately think it would be awesome if you somehow participate in the future of Twitter.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 16:03 Yeah, it would be fun.

Lex Fridman 16:05 'Cause there's so much possibility of different ideas. First in the sort of the, uh, the content, like dissemination, hosting, and all the different recommendation, like the search and discovery. All the things that YouTube does well.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 16:16 I think the most exciting thing is he's, you know, willing to move fast. And so I think there's gonna be a lot of interesting things that come out of it because he's just moving quick and a lot of these more mature platforms just take years to do the simplest stuff, and- and they're very bureaucratic and... Um, so it's gonna... I mean, it'll be interesting to see which way it goes when you just kind of take a move quick, break things, whatever type approach to social media. Uh, I'm actually pretty curious to see what features he rolls out.

Lex Fridman 16:42 So what will be your first, uh, act as Twitter CEO?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 16:47 I can't spoil it.

Lex Fridman 16:47 Okay.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 16:48 (laughs) I gotta get hired. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 16:51 (laughs) What do you think about video on the platform? I mean, do you-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 16:54 On Twitter?

Lex Fridman 16:54 Yeah. Do you think that's an interesting or is it, uh, like messing with the- the medium, the nature of the platform?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 16:59 I think Twitter will always be closer to TikTok than it is to YouTube. Like I don't... At least in its current form. Like I don't- I don't see 20 minute, one hour long videos or whatever, you know, even 15 minute videos being watched over there. I see it more as like the short and snappy stuff closer to TikTok.

Lex Fridman 17:16 But at the same time, Twitter has a really good comment section for the internet.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 17:20 I mean, it's almost weird why... Like why doesn't Twitter allow you to embed YouTube videos? Like why- why does st- You should just ask Elon that. Like I don't know if that's a YouTube thing, but when a YouTuber posts a video, why do they have to link to YouTube? Why can't they just embed it on Twitter and you just play it there? I mean, wouldn't that just solve a lot of problems?

Lex Fridman 17:37 Yeah, but then the- the two companies would have to agree to integrate each other's content.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 17:41 I don't know, but it seems like a win-win. (laughs) I mean, well, it's more of a win for Twitter 'cause then people don't have to leave the platform. I mean, that-

Lex Fridman 17:47 Right.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 17:47 That'd be the- the easiest solution.

Lex Fridman 17:49 But who gets... Like when you watch the ads on a YouTube video that's embedded in Twitter, who gets the money?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 17:55 It would still be YouTube. But at least then right now people just post a link and it takes you off Twitter and it just kills your session time on Twitter.

Lex Fridman 18:01 That's really interesting but the- the... Yeah, 'cause the Twitter... Whatever the- the dynamics of the comments, especially once the spam bots are taken care of, Twitter just works. It's really ni- so Reddit is a nice comment section from the internet. It's like slower paced, more deliberate.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 18:16 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 18:16 Like higher effort.... Twitter's like this high-paced, like, ephemeral kinda stream, but there's the vote... The upvoting and the downvoting works much better 'cause you could do retweeting, right? 'Cause the social network is much stronger than it is on YouTube. Like, the interconnectivity-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 18:31 Yeah, on, on Reddit, you're gonna get, uh, the top replies are gonna be the most refined ones, whereas Twitter, stuff floats to the top that's not super refined. But, like you were saying, it's more off the cuff, stream of consciousness, which a lot of people prefer 'cause it's a little more personal.

Lex Fridman 18:45 How do you think Twitter compares to YouTube, uh, in terms of how you see its future on roll in 2023?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 18:51 I mean, I think YouTube is gonna be YouTube, and not much is really gonna change, but it's gonna keep growing just because, you know, that's just what it does and 'cause it's owned by Google. Um, but Twitter, (laughs) I don't know. I mean, it's one of those things, like, you, you can't predict if, like, you know, a year from now, an economy is gonna be in a recession or booming. And I think Twitter is kinda the same thing. One thing's for certain, a lot of things are gonna be rolled out, but who knows, (laughs) honestly.

Lex Fridman 19:16 You responded to Elon saying, "Twitter's unlikely to be able to pay creators more money than YouTube." Um, why do you think that is?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 19:23 Well, yeah, 'cause I, I think the tweet I responded to was one where he was saying, um, that they, uh... You know, users will jump over if Twitter could potentially pay more, uh, than other platforms. And I was just saying, obviously 'cause Google has Google AdWords and... I mean, that's Google's whole thing is putting ads on stuff. They've been doing it better than anyone else in the world for a very long time. It's very unlikely in the next few years that Twitter's gonna just magically, or any platform, you know, give a creator the ability to make higher CPMs than on YouTube. Uh, it's, it's kinda crazy. Like, some creators in, in December, you know, Q4, 'cause ad rates are higher 'cause of Christmas and everything, some creators literally make like $30, $40 per 1,000 views, and that's after YouTube's cut. Like, it's almost, like, hard to think about-

Lex Fridman 20:04 Mm-hmm.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 20:04 ... like, how high the RPMs get. And even then, once you pull out of finance and cars, the high CPM niches, and you move into just normal stuff, it's still just crazy. The sheer volume of creators and the fact that all of them get these multi-dollar CPMs at scale is pretty beautiful.

Lex Fridman 20:19 So, you do, I don't know what you would call them, but, like, integrated ads in your videos, and you do it, I would say, masterfully. It's like part of the video.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 20:27 Are you talking about brand deals?

Lex Fridman 20:28 Brand deals, is that what you would call that?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 20:29 Yeah, yep.

Lex Fridman 20:30 So, it's a brand deal, it's part of the video, it's still really exciting to watch, and yet there's a plug for the brand.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 20:36 In general, just brand deals, since you brought it up, um, integrating them well, I think that's something a lot of creators don't do. Like, they'll just do a brand deal out of the blue. They'll just be filming a video, and then around the three-minute mark, just start talking about a random company.

Lex Fridman 20:49 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 20:50 And you... I feel like if you don't want viewers to click away and you want people to not get pissed off and call you a sellout, you gotta find a way to integrate it in the content. And ideally, use the money and the video to make it better. Like, as... The easiest thing you can do when you do a brand deal is just tell people how you're using money from the brand deal to make your content better. And if you do that, like, no one cares. Now, they're supporting you for it, and you go from being a sellout to, like, "Oh, I'm doing this to make better videos for you guys," you know?

Lex Fridman 21:14 I don't know if you can share, but would those brands, when you have discussions with them, are they strict about how long you need to be talking about it? Or is it more about they're leaving control to you about the artistic element of it?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 21:28 The problem is the, the ones who don't give us the artistic element, we just don't really work with anymore.

Lex Fridman 21:32 Sure, yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 21:32 Uh, because it's just, you know, we get 100 million views a video now, and I can confidently say I know how to entertain them and convert them better than these random brands. So, uh, yeah, if, if they don't give us that freedom, I just won't work with them.

Lex Fridman 21:45 So, you have that leverage, but for smaller creators.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 21:48 It's a lot harder, yeah. And they're, they're gonna just say, "45 seconds. Here's what you say. Take it or leave it." And it's, like, pretty brutal 'cause I think, just in general, if brands were more accommodating to let creators tell their story of the brand and talk about the brand in a way that felt a little more natural, I, I think it'd be... A, it'd be less cringe. It... People would be less likely to go, you know, tap, tap, tap, skip. And, uh, obviously it would convert better, but they're just so afraid and they want this standardized thing. "Say these words in 45 seconds, right here at this three-minute mark."

Lex Fridman 22:18 Yeah, I often think about how to resist that.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 22:21 You just don't do them though, right?

Lex Fridman 22:23 Not on YouTube, right. I do... On the audio, I do ads in the very beginning and I say, "You can skip them if you want."

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 22:28 Gotcha.

Lex Fridman 22:28 Um, but-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 22:29 (laughs) I'm sure the brand loves that. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 22:31 I don't... Like, the point is they... (laughs)

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 22:34 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 22:34 Th- so the funny thing about podcasts that's different than, than, uh, YouTube videos, podcast people actually do listen to ads a lot because they... It's slower paced and they like the, the creator voice, like, talking about the thing. Um, but in general, I just don't believe you should be talking about a thing for a minute exactly and that's going to be effective. I want to see the data for that. I think what's much more effective is the way you do ads, which is, like, integrate into the content. Like, put a lot of effort into making it a part of that, like doing the brand deals. And I just... It's difficult to have that conversation. It's like a very strenuous conversation to have to have with, with brands. You have to have w- each one at a time. And I just wish there was more of a culture to say, like, the quality of the ad read matters a lot more than the, uh, like, the silly parameters, like the timing of it, like, how long it is, the placement of it, all that kind

Lex Fridman 23:29 of stuff.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 23:29 What percentage of your viewers do you think have seen one of my videos before?

Lex Fridman 23:34 What percentage of the viewers on YouTube, right?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 23:37 Yeah, of your viewers.

Lex Fridman 23:38 Of the viewers on YouTube though?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 23:39 Yeah, yeah.

Lex Fridman 23:40 Because most of w- people-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 23:41 Okay, sure, or, or all of them.

Lex Fridman 23:42 All of them.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 23:42 It's just interesting 'cause you're, you're speaking very specifically, like, about my brand deal process. And so, in my head, I'm like, "Hmm, I wonder what percentage of these people even have any idea what he's talking about."

Lex Fridman 23:50 That's interesting. I love the thinking about numbers.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 23:52 The, the whole time we were having this conversation, that's all I could think about is, like, "God, goddamn it. He's... There's probably, like, 50% of these people have no fucking clue what he's saying."

Lex Fridman 24:00 Probably.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 24:00 And we're about to torture him for five minutes.

Lex Fridman 24:02 Yeah, yeah, probably.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 24:03 But that's something I can't turn off in my brain.

Lex Fridman 24:05 Less, less than 50%. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Is that exciting to you? That, that there's, like, 50% of people don't-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 24:12 Huh?

Lex Fridman 24:12 ... have not watched a MrBeast video. Isn't that an opportunity to, like-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 24:14 Yeah, I guess it's an opportunity to grow. I don't know. Honestly, I was just kind of excited to hang out with you.

Lex Fridman 24:18 Yeah, me too.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 24:19 Yeah, so...

Lex Fridman 24:19 I mean, it's just, it's an oppor-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 24:20 Today was a lot of fun.

Lex Fridman 24:21 Who, who cares if there's mics? Yeah,

Narrator 24:22 ... having some...

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 24:22 So, yeah, so it was kinda like having a buddy to go along the journey as I'm just kinda eating shit and doing my normal grind.

Lex Fridman 24:27 Yeah, yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 24:27 It was, like, kind of fun. And also, you just say really wise stuff constantly.

Lex Fridman 24:31 (laughs)

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 24:31 Um, so honestly, no, I never even put any thought into, like, the demographics or what I could gain. It's just interesting 'cause, like, my retention brain, when you talk about something, I'm instantly like, "Hmm.... what value are they gonna get? How many of them are gonna be interested? What percentage of people do I think we'll lose? And I'm, like, running all those calculations in the background. And that whole conversation, like, the long... A- anyway, it's just something I can't turn off. My, like, bells were like, "Error, error, this is bad." (laughs)

Lex Fridman 24:55 What are the different strategies for high retention? For your videos and in general?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 24:59 It's like, h- how do you cook good food, you know what I mean? It... That's like the same kind of question.

Lex Fridman 25:03 I see. So there's so many different ways that you... So it, it boils down to... I mean, uh, do you think of this at the level of a story or do you think, like, literally watching five seconds at a time, "Am I gonna tune out here? Am I gonna tune out here? Am I gonna tune out here?"

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 25:18 Yeah. It's all of it. You need the overarching narrative and then you also need the micro, where every second, you know, needs to be entertaining. And you... Basically, what's interesting is the longer people watch something, the more likely they are to keep watching. So you don't have to try as hard in the, hypothetically, back half of a video as you do in the front. Like, even right now, we're so deep into this where a lot of people listening are probably just gonna keep listening relatively close to the end, unless we just have a really boring part of this conversation 'cause they're just... They're just in it. They're, they're immersed. Um, and so a big... Like, to really boil it down to a simple level, you just want to get people where they're immersed in the content and then just kind of hold them there.

Lex Fridman 25:57 We had this discussion offline and by the way, I should mention that this is, like, late at night.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 26:02 (laughs) It is. What time is it? It's, uh, nine o'clock. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 26:05 And I, uh, I only slept one hour last night because I'm an idiot and I flew to the wrong location.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 26:10 I... Well, here. We're like, "Hey, let us just book you a hotel and a flight." He's like, "No, I got it." We're like, "You sure? We... We can just do it. We always do this." He's like, "No, I got it. I got it."

Lex Fridman 26:18 Just gonna have to rub it in.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 26:19 (laughs) I know. And then today, come to find out he flew to the wrong airport, airport with a... Uh, or a city with a similar name to ours, just 'cause-

Lex Fridman 26:26 Same name.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 26:27 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 26:27 Same name in a different state.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 26:28 (laughs) And, and I was like, "That's why you should've let us book it." And so-

Lex Fridman 26:32 That's-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 26:32 ... he's on one hour of sleep and he's literally been dying all day. Before the podcast, he'd downed, like, two things of coffee.

Lex Fridman 26:37 (laughs)

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 26:37 We've been going all day hard. Um-

Lex Fridman 26:39 Yeah, I've been... I got to interact with you. I sh- I should say that this gave me an opportunity to... I got a, uh, ride from a stranger and it was an incredible person that I got to interact with him. So it's like, there's so many kind people around here, just like this kind of southern energy. And then I got to go to a diner 'cause I could... You know, there's only one hour between me arriving and having to fly out. So I went to a diner. There's a, there's a really kind waitress that called me, uh, honey, so that was a beautiful moment, you know?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 27:08 I was so confused. You, you tweeted about that and, and like, Steel's like, "Lex," my, my assistant was like, "Uh, Lex isn't here yet."

Lex Fridman 27:15 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 27:15 And I saw your tweet and I was like, "He's here."

Lex Fridman 27:17 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 27:18 Steel's like, "No, he's still flying." I was like, "For, like, an hour ago, he just tweeted about a nice diner."

Lex Fridman 27:22 Yeah, it was-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 27:23 I didn't realize you flew to the-

Lex Fridman 27:24 It was, it was a diner-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 27:25 (laughs)

Lex Fridman 27:25 It was a diner in a different state.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 27:27 And then you had to fly over here.

Lex Fridman 27:28 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 27:28 So that was... And then I called you, you didn't answer. I was like, "Hmm."

Lex Fridman 27:31 (laughs)

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 27:31 I was like, "Something's not adding up." (laughs)

Lex Fridman 27:34 Yeah, I feel like such an idiot 'cause, um, apparently the world, uh, has cities like Springfield, right?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 27:41 Mm-hmm.

Lex Fridman 27:41 Like, there's like every single state has a Springfield.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 27:44 Oh, really?

Lex Fridman 27:45 I, I think so. I think that's a-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 27:46 Okay, well, whatever

Narrator 27:46 (music plays)

Lex Fridman 27:46 That's like a Simpsons joke, right? That like, it's... Uh, the S- the city in Spr- in, in The Simpsons is Springfield and I think every single state, or most of them have a Springfield. And the same is true for like, uh, Georgetown. I think the most pop... I forget what the most popular one was. But there's like a list of these. People get... When they run out of ideas, they just keep using the same thing over and over.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 28:05 (laughs) They're, they're, they're your Achilles heel. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 28:08 Anyway, I got to... I got to meet a bunch of people from, um, from your team. There's just, uh, incredible human beings. So let me just ask on that topic, how do you hire a great team? Like, what have you learned about hiring for, um, everything? For, for the main channel that you do, uh, for the, the React, the ga- uh, the, the gaming channel, f- to, um, MrBeast Burger, to, uh, Feastables, all that?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 28:32 The big thing is, especially in this content creation, 'cause it's not like anything that's done on Netflix or, or different, uh, content medians, I, I really need people who are coachable and, like, really see the value in what I care about because it's a very specific way of going about things, and it's a... Like, I think you... There's no one, like, plug and play. Like, if Netflix wanted to hire someone to do a documentary, there's probably tens of thousands of people you could hire that have worked on documentaries before. But if you want to hire someone to make super viral YouTube videos, you know, like we do, there's just no one you, you can really pull from. Like, sometimes I'll hire people from, uh, game shows, right? And they have all these preconceived notions about pacing and how a video should be, and you have to spend like the first year, like, breaking all these habits and, you know, and they think they're better than you. Like, a lot of people in traditional think they're better and they think their way is better than what we do. And so for me, it's a- almost easier to hire people that are, are just hard workers, that are obsessed and really coachable and just train them how to, like, be good at content creation and production than to hire someone from, like, traditional, which is the only way to really do it 'cause there's not that many YouTube channels that I've scaled up, so it's not like there's a huge talent pool of people who've worked on YouTube channels. Um, so it's easier just to train someone than just pull them from traditional 'cause traditional people just... I don't know, they have all these opinions and things and they just (laughs) think our way of going about things is dumb.

Lex Fridman 29:52 Yeah. So you want people who have the humility to have a beginner's mind, even if they have experience?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 29:57 And see the value.

Lex Fridman 29:57 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 29:57 Like actually, a lot... You'll still get it. It's so crazy. Like, especially some of my other friends that are scaling up their YouTube channels, there's people that will come on and you'll ask them like, "What do you want to be doing in five years?" And instead of saying, "Oh, I want to be working on this channel," they'll be like, "Oh, I hope to be working on movies." Or this or that.

Lex Fridman 30:11 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 30:11 And they see, like, working on a YouTube channel as a launchpad to go into traditional and it's like, "No." (laughs) Like, you just don't get it.

Lex Fridman 30:17 This is the future.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 30:18 This is the end goal.

Lex Fridman 30:19 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 30:19 This is your career. Um, and so I'm just so tired of having those kinds of conversations. Like, I feel like people really should be coming around.

Lex Fridman 30:27 Are there, like, recurring interview questions that you ask? Is there, is there ways to get-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 30:32 Yeah, the biggest thing is like, "Where, what do you want to be doing in 10 years?" And if their answer isn't, you know, "Making content on YouTube" or... You know, if their answer is anything like movies or traditional stuff like that, it's like just a, "Hell no." Like, it just won't even remotely work.

Lex Fridman 30:44 Oh, so you really want people to believe in the vision of YouTube as a platform?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 30:47 Yeah. I mean, ideally it's like, "Oh, working here." You know what I mean?

Lex Fridman 30:50 So it's less about the medium and more about just being on a great team that's doing epic stuff.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 30:54 Yeah. Well, and yeah, the medium as well 'cause those ... It's just, it's hard to put into words but there's, it's just two completely different ways of going about things, you know. Like, our videos aren't scripted and, you know, it's a lot more run and gun. And when we, if we hypothetically blow up a, a giant car or whatever, like, you only have one take, you know what I mean? So you, um ... and it's not scripted, and so you have to over film, overshoot things, overcompensate for, like, the dumb way of going about it. And a lot of traditional people would be like, "Well, just plan what you're gonna say and just plan the angles. You can ha- cut the cameras in half, you can save 50 grand here, you can save a h- you know, $75,000 editing, this and that." And it's like, "Yeah, but that's not authentic." Like, that's, you know, and blah, blah. It, it, you, you get it. It's, it's almost so obvious that it hurts that I have to, like, constantly have these conversations, but it's the world we live in.

Lex Fridman 31:41 But there's also detail, like there's a taste. Like, I've watched a bunch of videos with you and it's clear to you that you've gotten really good. I don't know what the right word is. Style or taste to be able to know what's good and not in terms of retention, in terms of-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 31:54 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 31:54 ... just stylistically, visually.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 31:56 I don't have to think. I can just watch a video and it just, it just screams in my head, like, "This is what, this is what should change based on the, you know, million videos I've watched and all these viral videos I've consumed. Like, this is blah, blah, blah, what's optimal," and things like that. It's almost like your brain's like a, you know, like a, a neural net. And, like, if you consume enough viral videos and enough good content that you just kinda start to, like, train your brain to, like, see it and see these patterns that happen in all these viral videos. And so that ... Anytime I watch a video, or a movie or anything, I just can't stop thinking about what is optimal. And so it's like, it gives me a headache sometimes when I watch something too slow or I don't think it's optimal. Obviously, my taste isn't the end-all, be-all, um, but that's something that kinda torments me, if that makes any sense.

Lex Fridman 32:40 Oh, you can't enjoy a slow-moving, like, movie?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 32:42 No, I can't. (laughs) And, and that's not to say there isn't-

Lex Fridman 32:43 Your attention on The Godfather is horrible. (laughs)

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 32:46 (laughs) Yeah. No, exactly. I've tried to watch that movie, like, three times.

Lex Fridman 32:48 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 32:48 But ... And that's not to say slow movies are bad. Like, there's an audience for it. It's just obviously not what I've trained my brain to like. And, and social media and YouTube right now, like, that's just not the meta.

Lex Fridman 32:58 And in general, like you said, a neural network, you're training your brain in part on actual data.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 33:05 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 33:05 Right? So you're actually s- data-driven, so you're looking at, like, in terms of thumbnails and titles and different aspects of the first 5, 10 seconds. And then throughout the video, the retention, all of that, you're looking at all of that, uh, for your own videos to understand how to do it better. So that's where the neural network is training.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 33:22 Yeah. Basically, there are ways you can kinda see, like, the most viewed videos on YouTube every day and stuff like that, and I just kinda consume those every single day and I've been doing that for way too many years. And then you just start to notice patterns, like the thumbnails on the most viewed videos or videos that go super viral tend to be clear, tend to not have much clutter, tend to be pretty simple. Titles tend to be less than 50 characters. Intros tend to be this, stories tend to be this. And you just kinda, like, after you see those thousands and then tens of thousands of times, it just starts to click in your head, like, "This is what it looks like," you know?

Lex Fridman 33:53 So how are you able to transfer that taste that you've developed to the team? So for, like ... 'Cause you said, like, broad things, but I'm sure there's a million detailed things, like what zoom to use on the face you use in the thumbnail, right? Like-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 34:05 The answer is whatever makes the best video, 'cause the problem is the more ... Which I, I have so many friends who are like this. They'll make, like, checklists for their editors.

Lex Fridman 34:13 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 34:14 They'll make, you know, "Add this beat and this beat, and you need to have like a three part arc and then this." But the, the problem is that's how you ... The, the more str- constraints you put on the team, the more repetitive and less innovation you get, and the more ...

Lex Fridman 34:27 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 34:27 Like, you know, after 10 videos, people are gonna be like, "All right, I've already seen this." So to me, and I'm 24 and, you know, I'm probably ... My mindset will change over the next 10 years, I just haven't h- been in this industry too long. But the only way to, like, really make innovative content and keep things fresh is to not put constraints on.

Lex Fridman 34:42 Sure.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 34:42 Or put as little as possible. And so that's why I'm very hesitant on all tha- all that stuff because the more I say, the more they're gonna be like, "Oh, then that's what we do." And then, you know, th- I'll say one time like, "Oh, you know, ideally there's a cut every three seconds." And then next thing you know-

Lex Fridman 34:56 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 34:56 ... every video, there's a cut every three seconds or whatever. So it's, it's hard because I try to give, uh, as little train- not training, but as little, uh, facts or, as possible and, and more just make suggestions, if that makes any sense.

Lex Fridman 35:11 You mean publicly or to your team?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 35:12 To my team, yeah.

Lex Fridman 35:14 What, what's ... So you talked about sort of, uh, teaching your voice or your style, whatever we wanna call it, to other people on the team so they can be kinda-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 35:22 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 35:22 ... a MrBeast r- replacement. So what's the process of teaching that? So you don't want to-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 35:29 No, I gotcha.

Lex Fridman 35:29 ... add extra constraints?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 35:30 So you're more talking about, like, uh, what I would call almost like cloning, right?

Lex Fridman 35:33 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 35:33 Like, like Tyler and other people like that?

Lex Fridman 35:34 Yes.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 35:35 Yeah. So when, when we were hanging out today, I was showing him how we have multiple people in the com- it's, uh, it's almost like talking to the camera. It's a habit.

Lex Fridman 35:42 Yeah, you turn slowly to the camera.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 35:44 (laughs) I know. I was like ... Anyways,

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 35:46 habit.

Lex Fridman 35:46 Is it weird to you to not be looking at the camera?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 35:48 This whole interview, I constantly have been turning towards the camera.

Lex Fridman 35:51 (laughs) Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 35:51 Like, when I'm talking to him.

Lex Fridman 35:52 Yes.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 35:52 It's, it's a habit.

Lex Fridman 35:53 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 35:53 Uh, 'cause my whole life, I've just been talking to a camera.

Lex Fridman 35:56 Who are you thinking about when you're looking at the camera? Do you, like, imagine somebody?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 36:00 I'm fully thinking about the person just sitting watching it and-

Lex Fridman 36:03 Watching.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 36:03 ... I almost-

Lex Fridman 36:04 It's one-on-one.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 36:04 It's weird. When I'm looking at the camera, I don't see a camera. I'm, like, in a haze picturing what the viewer is seeing when they watch it-

Lex Fridman 36:11 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 36:11 ... if that makes sense. And that's where I'll be saying things and I'll ... Or doing something and then, like, when I'm watching, I'm like, "That's not what I want." And then-

Lex Fridman 36:18 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 36:18 ... I'll freeze up. It's very weird when I'm filming. And then for people who haven't worked with me too much, they'll think, like ... I don't know. It's very weird, like, th- how I go about it 'cause I'll just be doing whatever, like lighting a firework. "All right, this is a $1,000 firework." And I'll go to light it and I'll be like ... and I'll, like, freeze, 'cause in my head I'm like, "This is ... I don't know. I don't like how that flowed or how that shot looked."

Lex Fridman 36:36 Mm-hmm.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 36:36 'Cause I've ... It's weird. I can perfectly picture what I'm filming by just looking at the camera and then putting myself through the lens of the camera while making content. It ... I can do it at the same time.

Lex Fridman 36:47 So you're, like, real-time editing-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 36:49 In my head.

Lex Fridman 36:49 ... the video?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 36:49 Yeah, yeah. That's something that didn't, at the start, come natural to me. But in the last probably, like, five years, it, it's happened. And so I would say it's one of my greatest strengths but I don't know how I developed it. But anytime I'm filming anything, like it's almost like the, like, right side of my brain, I just, can just look at it and I see exactly what I'm filming and I can just picture it.

Lex Fridman 37:07 Well, it's probably-... do, uh, recording the video, being the talent for the video, and then watching the editing, and, like, analyzing it carefully, and doing that over, and over, and over, and over-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 37:14 Yeah, you do that-

Lex Fridman 37:15 ... you develop-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 37:15 ... 10,000 times, yeah.

Lex Fridman 37:17 You do the editing more than the being in front of the camera, so, like, you s- you start to see yourself from that third person perspective.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 37:25 Exactly.

Lex Fridman 37:25 And then, maybe that actually helps with the nerves of it too. Like, you see it as creating a video versus performing-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 37:32 Uh-

Lex Fridman 37:32 ... right?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 37:32 Yeah, yeah. I think so. You know, I, it's weird, I've never been nervous talking to a camera. It's- it's harder for me to talk to a person than it is-

Lex Fridman 37:40 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 37:40 ... to talk to a camera.

Lex Fridman 37:41 (laughs)

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 37:41 Which I feel like a- a lot of people say that though, that are, whatever, make content, right?

Lex Fridman 37:46 Interesting. I don't-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 37:46 I've- I've heard that so many times. Or maybe not, maybe I'm just awkward and dumb.

Lex Fridman 37:50 Maybe they're practiced. I, to me, it's... I mean, both are terrifying, but being in front of the camera by yourself is much-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 37:56 So much easier.

Lex Fridman 37:57 Really?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 37:57 Yeah, so much easier. I prefer it a million times over.

Lex Fridman 37:59 (exhales)

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 38:01 But that's my whole life, you know? (laughs)

Lex Fridman 38:03 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 38:03 So it's just... That's why it's interesting. Like, you've spent more of your time talking to people-

Lex Fridman 38:06 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 38:07 ... it comes natural. And I talk to a piece of plastic.

Lex Fridman 38:10 Oh, yeah. I guess you're talking to a person too, they're just in- on the other side of the camera.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 38:13 Yeah, they're just a pixel on a screen. (laughs)

Lex Fridman 38:16 So- so cloning, how do you- how do you achieve the cloning?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 38:18 Oh yeah, that's right, this whole rabbit trail. So I was showing him that I have a lot of people in the company who are able to think like me and, uh, basically make decisions like I would make if I was... Like, if you were asked, "Hey, in this video, should we climb a mountain or should we dig a hole?"

Lex Fridman 38:34 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 38:34 Right? And, like, you know, they would pick the same answer I'd pick 90 plus percent of the times. And so, like, one example is Tyler, who I was showing you, when he was pitching some content. And, like, you could see it, like, this ... he was on point. And, uh, basically for just four, five years, we just spent an absurd amount of time together and worked on every single video together, and we worked, uh, side by side. And same thing with, uh, my CEO James, he literally lived with me for a couple years. I'm a big fan of just, like, finding people who are super obsessed, and all in, and A players that, you know, they really just wanna be great, and then just dumping everything I have in them.

Lex Fridman 39:09 And, like, you were saying, 'cause I'd love to find that, uh, and develop that. You're saying you're basically, for a long time, just said everything you were thinking to them.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 39:18 Exactly. Like, uh, James, like the guy who's basically my right hand man right now, um, for two years he lived with me and we probably talked, on average over those two years, seven hours a day. I mean, anytime I had a phone call, I'd throw it on speaker and I'd let him listen. Uh, anything I was reading, any content I was consuming, like, really just training his brain to think like me, so that way, um, he could just do things without my input, without me having to constantly watch over him or give him advice. And- And that's where we've gotten. Like, so for the first six months, he didn't do anything. He just studied me and studied everything I cared about, and how I spoke, and blah, blah. And then, the next six months, he started taking on some responsibilities. And now, he can just run the company and, you know, I- I don't ever really have to check in on him. Like, I ... most of the decisions he makes are exactly what I would do. Um, and so I- I call that cloning, I don't know what other people would, but it's just like finding people that are really obsessed and they just kinda really want it, and just being like giving them an avenue to, like, get it. If that makes any sense.

Lex Fridman 40:14 Another way to see it is you're converging towards a common vision, and that makes, like, brainstorming much more productive.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 40:20 Yeah, it just makes it where I don't have to be so involved in everything, because I just have these people I know will think like I will, uh, at least relatively close to it. So I can kinda almost be in multiple places at once, per se. And so these things that, you know... I still approve every idea we film and, you know, everything before we film it, all the creative, I approve it, but I don't have to, like, be in the weeds, and nuances, and do all this minor stuff. I can just let them handle it and I can just do the more macro

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 40:47 things.

Lex Fridman 40:47 I got a chance to sit in to a lengthy brainstorming session with Tyler and others.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 40:53 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 40:53 That was really cool. Can you talk about the process of that? Of, uh, people pitching ideas and you pitching alternatives or shutting down ideas and just going-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 41:05 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 41:05 ... like plowing through ideas very quick?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 41:07 I mean, you kind of just li- described exactly what we did. Yeah.

Lex Fridman 41:11 I mean, but the ideas are really, uh, really good. It's just tossing out, like, different categories of ideas and then also fine-tuning them to see, like-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 41:21 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 41:21 ... "How do I change..." Like, thinking about the titles and the thumbnails, thinking about the story-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 41:23 I work so well off of inspiration. It's like, that's, uh, something ... Like, give- give me any word. I don't know, make it relative.

Lex Fridman 41:31 Space.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 41:32 Space. Yeah, like, I went to space, you know? What happens if you blow up a nuke in space? Or I went to the moon, I went to Mars, right? Because you said that one word, it was able to inspire me to come up with four ideas. And so that's just... It's, for me, if you... The way to get 100 million views on a video is you need something original, creative, something people really need to see-

Lex Fridman 41:51 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 41:51 ... ideally never been done before, all these, like, things. And so you need, like... If you wanna consistently go super viral, you need just a constant stream of ideas. And the only way I've really found that I can consistently come up with 100 million view videos is to intake inspiration and then see what my brain outputs. And so that's kinda, at its core foundation, what I'm doing there, is just, like, intaking a lot of random inspiration to see what spawns in my mind so I can output it.

Lex Fridman 42:16 But the neural network of your brain is generating the video, the title, the thumbnail-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 42:21 Exactly.

Lex Fridman 42:21 ... all, like, jointly, right?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 42:23 Exactly. And that only comes because I spent 10 years of my life just obsessively studying all that stuff.

Lex Fridman 42:28 'Cause you w- I mean, it seems like you would literally potentially shut down a video just 'cause you can't come up with a good title-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 42:35 Yeah, 100%.

Lex Fridman 42:35 ... or a good thumbnail.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 42:35 Or a thumbnail, yeah. I mean, that's what happened to 70% of those in that pitch session. I was just like... Oh, what was one of them? Genius versus 100 people or-

Lex Fridman 42:43 Yeah, like maybe Average Intelligence Versus Genius or something like that or-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 42:45 (laughs) Yeah, yeah. I was like, "What the heck is the thumbnail?" Even if the title was good.

Lex Fridman 42:48 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 42:49 Yeah. I mean, there's so many. But yeah, people don't click, they don't watch.

Lex Fridman 42:53 That's so interesting, but you developed over time the ability to kinda give it what? What- what makes for a good title? Short?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 43:00 Not just short. It's also... I mean, if someone reads it, are they... Like, do they have to watch it? Is it just so intrinsically interesting that it's just gonna fuck with them-

Lex Fridman 43:11 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 43:11 ... if they don't click on it? You know what I mean?

Lex Fridman 43:13 So it doesn't have to be short, but it has to be...Like, you almost want to have a retention to word by word reading.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 43:21 Ideally, it's a title also that, um, you know, 'cause the titles don't live in a vacuum, right? So it has to lead into the content. So ideally, the title represents content that you would wanna watch for 20 minutes. So if it's a 20 minute video and the title is, "I stepped on a bug," it's not gonna, 'cause it's all of it combined. The c- the click through rate's gonna be much lower than if it was like a five second video. People might click it. So you gotta, like even nuances of the length of the video based against the title will affect whether people wanna click it, 'cause sometimes they just don't add up. I mean it's that, yes, ideally you want it below 50 characters because above 50 characters on certain devices, you run the chance of it going, "dot, dot, dot." So like, "I took a, a light pole and I saw how many dollar bills I could stack on top," and then it would just go, "dot, dot, dot," 'cause it's too long-

Lex Fridman 44:04 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 44:04 ...and it can't finish it. And that's the worst thing because then people don't even know what they're clicking on, and so it's gonna do even worse. Um, short, simple ideally, and just so freaking interesting they have to click, and it is a good segue into the content and it represents the length of the content.

Lex Fridman 44:18 And there's probably stuff you, it's hard to conv- convert into words for you, like, "I stepped on a bug," versus, "Stepping on a bug," versus, "Mr. Beast stepped on a bug," versus-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 44:27 Yeah. Well, I mean that, that (laughs) -

Lex Fridman 44:28 ..."bug stepping" video.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 44:29 It's funny you bring that up. So it's like, yes, the more extreme the opinion, typically the higher the click through rate. If you can like, uh, pay it off in the content, then it just supercharges it. So like-

Lex Fridman 44:39 Oh, so you have a kind of estimate of the extremeness of the title?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 44:41 Yeah, like, uh, this, this water, right? You're like, "Fiji Water sucks."

Lex Fridman 44:46 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 44:46 That would do fine. But if you said, "Fiji Water is the worst water bottle," or, "the worst water I've ever drank in my life."

Lex Fridman 44:52 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 44:53 Way more extreme opinion, would do way better.

Lex Fridman 44:55 But you have to deliver.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 44:56 Yeah, but then you have to deliver 'cause the more extreme you are, the more extreme you have to be in the video.

Lex Fridman 45:00 Yeah. That's almost inspiration for you to step up and do tricks.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 45:03 Yeah, but you can, you can be more extreme in a positive way. You, a lot of people-

Lex Fridman 45:07 Right.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 45:07 It's easier though. Posit- uh, po- negative clickbait's much easier than positive clickbait. It just is. It's so much easier to get negative clicks, and so a lot of people are just, in my opinion, you know, a little bit lazier and they just take the route like, "Oh, well this one gets the same amount of clicks. It's, and it's easier, less effort."

Lex Fridman 45:25 The positive one is doing a large number of numbers of something. Like, I, I spent this number of hours doing this.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 45:32 Well, whatever. If you just wanted to help people or, right? It's just harder to get 10 million views on a video helping people than it is to get 10 million views on a video tearing down a celebrity, you know what I mean? Or whatever negative video you wanna insert there.

Lex Fridman 45:43 Well, that said, most of your videos are pretty positive.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 45:46 Yes.

Lex Fridman 45:46 So what's-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 45:47 But there, not a lot of people do those kinds of videos 'cause they're hard.

Lex Fridman 45:49 Yeah, they're hard.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 45:50 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 45:50 Uh, some of that is giving away money, right?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 45:53 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 45:53 Um, what's the secret to that? What's, how do you do, do that right?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 45:58 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 45:58 Like...

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 45:59 Give, give away money or?

Lex Fridman 46:00 In a video to ma- to make it compelling.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 46:03 Um...

Lex Fridman 46:03 Is it, so there's a number that is better than another number, right?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 46:07 The higher number is always better than-

Lex Fridman 46:08 Is it?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 46:09 ...the lower number. Yeah, for the most part. And you know, it's interesting, like s- some videos will give away a million dollars, some videos will give away half a million. There's not really cor- I guess, so I'm retracting what I just said. I was more joking with that, but there's no difference whether I put 500K or a million. There's probably not even really a difference between 100K or a million, I haven't really looked into it. Like some of our most viewed videos are not us giving away a million dollars, and sometimes the million dollar videos just don't do as well as the other ones. So there, there is a certain point where a dollar amount is just a large dollar amount to an average human. And so I think that point is 100K. Like anything above 100K, the average human is just like, "That's a lot of money." You know? Like it doesn't, it doesn't, 100K and a million like doesn't really move the needle, if that makes sense. Which, that's a very nuanced piece of information that applies to very few people, but yeah.

Lex Fridman 46:53 Well, no, I think it applies. It's fascinating. It's fasc- human... (laughs) Our relationship with money is fascinating.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 46:59 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 46:59 Like why is it so exciting to get... I mean, I, you know, the times I've found like 20 bucks on the ground are like incredible.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 47:08 Really? (laughs)

Lex Fridman 47:09 I don't know why, right? Why? Why are you so happy? Like, what exactly is so joyful about that? I mean, it depends where you are in, in life, what the situation is. Yeah, I don't know. There's also a gamified aspect to it. It's exciting.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 47:21 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 47:21 It's fun.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 47:22 No, I get it, like why people want to see people win money. It's just interesting that past 100 grand, it's, it doesn't really seem to make a difference. Like, it's the same basically.

Lex Fridman 47:30 So you found that to be true with all the money you've given away that-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 47:33 Uh, just in click through rate. Like obviously-

Lex Fridman 47:35 I see.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 47:35 ...in terms of someone receiving it, yeah.

Lex Fridman 47:36 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 47:36 A million dollars changes their life drastically more. Like that's the difference. Like, oh you, if you wanted to, you could really quit your job. As opposed to 100K is like, not really.

Lex Fridman 47:45 You could probably do like a, a scientific study, like a formula, giving away money to click through rate.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 47:51 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 47:52 There could be some kind of diminishing return.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 47:53 I got it. It definitely, the, the returns level off dramatically after 100K.

Lex Fridman 47:57 100K.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 47:57 That's basically the premise of it.

Lex Fridman 47:58 What about 10,000?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 47:59 Uh, no there's... 10, 100,000-

Lex Fridman 48:02 'Cause that's a big one.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 48:02 (laughs) It's funny 'cause this is such a small, niche thing, but yeah, 100,000 does, from what I see in our videos, get more clicks than 10,000. But the difference between 100,000 and a million is just so little. I just, I think big number, big number to a lot of people past that point.

Lex Fridman 48:17 Yeah. So for 100,000 you can like give an average salary, you can probably live for a year given, given what the av- average salary is in America. So that's like a big, that feels something big.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 48:26 Yeah, I think it's also just more when they read the title, it's just like, it's a lot of zeros. It's one fuckloads of zeros. Okay, click. You know? (laughs)

Lex Fridman 48:32 Yeah. Oh man, that's fascinating. So on the thumbnail side, again, that's pr- going to be much harder to say probably, um, but you know, offline, you know, I got a chance to look at a bunch of thumbnails, and it's fascinating which ones do well and which ones don't. Is there something you could say about what are the elements of a thumbnail that work well?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 48:52 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 48:52 Or is, is this also deeply instinctual?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 48:53 Well, that's where... Yeah, it's the same thing like how do you cook good food? But, um, I, it's easier if you pull up a thumbnail and I can be like, "That's why that's good. That's why that's bad." That's a... Like an example would be like one of my friends, I was, he just uploaded a video recently and I called him and I was like, "What is this?" Because he's a very, very smart guy and in the thumbnail he's, (laughs) he's getting chased by cops, but the cops were wearing yellow vests so they didn't look like cops. So I was like-... "well, why are the cops in your thumbnail wearing yellow vests?" It's like, that makes it so much more boring.

Lex Fridman 49:22 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 49:22 And he was like, carrying a- a flag, but the pole and the color of the flag were the same color, so it's like it's a lot harder to see the flag. I was like, "Also, you're wearing, like, a shirt with like five different colors." Like, so it's like... It's hard to tell what even... What your outline is. And then, in the background, there are cars and I was like, "Well, if you have cops chasing you, why not make the cars cop cars?" And, you know, and it's like... 'Cause in my head I'm like, "Dang, if you just did those, like, four or five things, the video probably would've got like 7X the views."

Lex Fridman 49:49 How much iteration? 'Cause I also got a chance to see the number of iterations you do on a- on a... Just a random thumbnail.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 49:55 (laughs) It's- it's a problem now.

Lex Fridman 49:57 Does... I mean-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 49:57 It's an addiction.

Lex Fridman 49:58 Is it?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 49:59 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 49:59 So you k- kind of... 'Cause a lot of the versions were really good.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 50:03 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 50:03 How do you know when to, like, stop?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 50:04 I love how you... When we pulled up that, uh, the burger one and we were flipping through 'em, you're like, "That's really good." I was like, "Oh, that's version, like, one of, like, a thousand." (laughs)

Lex Fridman 50:11 But even the sketch, the idea was good. Like, already, even the original idea is strong.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 50:16 Yeah. Yeah, so we... One of our coming up videos, we made the world's largest plant-based burger, and the thumbnail we were thinking is, like, me standing beside the burger 'cause it's six feet tall, and that's- that's what he's talking about. So, like, just picture a giant, six-foot-tall burger, super wide, thousands of pounds, and then I'm beside it, and then it's like, "Eating the world's largest burger." Like, you... That's just something you have to click. Like, so you were saying, like, how would you describe a good thumbnail? Like that. You know what I mean? Like...

Lex Fridman 50:38 But I think you said the one I noticed first that was good, where you were very small in it, relative-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 50:45 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 50:45 To the... And you didn't like that one, I think.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 50:46 I needed to come forward a little bit and also... (laughs) I... Well, the photo we took was, uh, just my upper body-

Lex Fridman 50:51 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 50:52 So they photo manipulated and created my legs in Photoshop-

Lex Fridman 50:54 (laughs)

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 50:55 And that's why I said I didn't like it, 'cause my right leg was a little, like, off.

Lex Fridman 50:58 (laughs)

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 50:58 It was, like, bent the wrong way 'cause-

Lex Fridman 51:00 Oh, so you noticed it was like-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 51:00 ... (laughs) They had to build those legs in Photoshop.

Lex Fridman 51:02 Well, I mean, does the physics in the thumbnail have to even make sense? I mean, you can just, like, exaggerate the head size and all that kind of stuff, right?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 51:08 Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Things don't have to be relative.

Lex Fridman 51:10 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 51:10 You can have a car in the background and it'd be three times the size.

Lex Fridman 51:13 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 51:13 Because... Yeah, in every one of my thumbnails, my face is in the, you know, left side, very big. So brand recognition, so just people know, "Oh." Especially 'cause now that a lot of people copy our videos, it's just nice to like, you know... Everyone else might make thumbnails like this, but this is mine.

Lex Fridman 51:28 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 51:28 And obviously, we usually over-deliver and do bigger stuff.

Lex Fridman 51:32 Would you recommend to other creators that wanna... That wanna make it big to... And they see MrBeast and they look up to you, to copy some elements of you or to really try to be unique?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 51:42 Unique. 100% unique. You're not... The next "MrBeast," quote-unquote, feels weird-

Lex Fridman 51:46 Yeah, yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 51:46 Sayin' that in third person, but whatever. Is not gonna do what I'm doing better. They're gonna just invent their own lane. Like, you're just not gonna do what I do better than me. You know, I have so many... I literally have the best people in the world working here and I-

Lex Fridman 51:58 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 51:58 I reinvest everything I make, even to this day. You know what I mean? Like, it's absurd the amount of money I spend on content. And I don't care. I'll just stop sleeping and I'll just-

Lex Fridman 52:05 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 52:05 Film every hour of the day. Like, you're just not gonna beat me at my own game, and that's fine, you shouldn't. Like, I didn't get where I am by just beating someone else at their own game. I just found my own lane and innovated and adapted. And so, yeah, there's a lot of people that do copy me and it's fine. Whatever, do it. But just know you're not gonna get to where I am doing that, um, and so I'd advise you don't.

Lex Fridman 52:26 You give away a lot of the secrets, basically everything-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 52:29 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 52:29 About how you operate. Is there, um-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 52:31 I don't hold anything back.

Lex Fridman 52:32 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 52:32 Go for it, you know?

Lex Fridman 52:33 How do you think about that? 'Cause that's als- that's pretty rare.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 52:35 I think... And this is, uh, definitely not, uh... Most people in my stance, I don't think would take this... Uh, or my position, would take this stance, but I see every other YouTuber or s- person on social media even... 'Cause we're also focused super heavily on YouTube, but last year, we were also the most followed TikTok creator in the world as well. Last year, we were the most subscribed to YouTube channel in the world and the most followed TikTok account in the world. Um, but, uh, y- in general, I just see everyone else as, uh, collaborators, not competitors. I- I don't think giving advice and helping other creators do well in any way harms me, and I think it only brings more value to my

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 53:08 life.

Lex Fridman 53:08 How was it jumping on TikTok and trying to understand that platform from scratch?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 53:13 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 53:13 So from being a successful YouTuber to understand a totally different algorithm.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 53:17 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 53:17 Fundamentally different algorithm. What was that like?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 53:18 It's- it's- it's interesting. Well, not even just the algorithm, just the content. Like, I'm going from basically 15-minute short films-

Lex Fridman 53:24 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 53:24 To one... Sub-one minute vertical content. It's a whole different just ballpark. Um, and so the first little while I was doing TikTok, it- it was just kind of figuring out how... (laughs) What- what does MrBeast look like in this short form content? But recently, we've really started to catch our stride and come up with some original concepts and figure out how to innovate over there, just like we did on YouTube, because I don't want it... I didn't want it to just be shitty YouTube videos.

Lex Fridman 53:50 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 53:50 You know? And so, like, an example is, um, we played The Rock for 100K in rock-paper-scissors, and the loser had to donate 100K to charity. We did, um... (laughs) We went to random people on a campus and we offered them... So I- I said, "I'll give you $100 if you fly to Paris and get me a baguette." And then they said no, and I was like, "I will give you $300 if you fly to Paris and get me a baguette." And I was expecting this person to say no and it'd go up to like 10 grand, and he's like, "Yes." And so he flew to Paris, got a baguette, and brought it back, and gave it to me. And that, across everything, got like 450 million views. And it... 'Cause it's just really cool just to see this random guy get on a plane, spend a day in Paris, and we cut it up real nicely, and bring it back. And so we're starting to find just tons of original content over there.

Lex Fridman 54:31 But it seems like an epic video to make for one minute.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 54:33 Exactly. No one on short form is doing it. That's the thing. It's like... It's just so funny 'cause like TikTok has been big for a while now, years. And then, um, you know, as- as we started to really figure out things on the YouTube channel and get it cranking where I have some free time, we- we set our sights on TikTok and like, "Okay, what are- what are people not doing? How do we make it better, put in more effort, make it good?" And we did the same thing we did at YouTube, just different over on TikTok, and it worked. And-

Lex Fridman 54:59 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 55:00 Now we're the fastest growing or most followed TikTok account in 2022. And it's just funny that no one else did that.

Lex Fridman 55:06 And you're not afraid to do epic stuff, which I... Also during the brainstorming-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 55:10 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 55:11 Some- some of the ideas, you were like, "That's better as a short." That's crazy.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 55:14 Yeah. Can you remember one? 'Cause I remember I said that a bunch, but I can't think of one.

Lex Fridman 55:17 All I remember is that they were like epic videos.Like, really? You're going to do that for a one-minute video?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 55:26 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 55:26 That's crazy. So, like, are you, uh, posting similar content to a YouTube Short as a TikTok?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 55:30 Yeah. Those, we just double up. It's just hard. You know, what's actually f- pretty fascinating, and people who do social media listening to this will probably find this pretty interesting, is picture, like, the content curation meta three years ago versus now, where you can make sub-one-minute vertical content and it go viral on TikTok, it go viral on YouTube Shorts, it go viral on Instagram Reels, it goes viral on Facebook, it goes R- Reddit, you know? You swipe through vertical content now. And Twitter, when you click on a video and you flip through it.

Lex Fridman 55:56 Mm-hmm.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 55:56 So this is actually very weird. This is the first time in the history of, I guess, Western social media that one form of content could actually go super viral on every single platform. It's never been like that before.

Lex Fridman 56:07 So they're going viral individual-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 56:09 Yeah, like, I could post something on-

Lex Fridman 56:10 They're not, like, interbreeding or whatever.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 56:10 ... I could post something on TikTok that will get 100 million views, and then post it on Shorts and it'll get 200 million views, and then post it on Instagram and it get 50 million views, and then... You know, I haven't yet, but, you know, you can then turn around and tweet it and it get-

Lex Fridman 56:20 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 56:21 ... tens of millions of views, and then you can post it on Reddit and it get tens of millions of views, and, and Facebook and get tens of millions of views. And that-

Lex Fridman 56:26 That's true.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 56:27 ... that just wasn't a thing. Three years ago, Twitter didn't have... When, when 'Cause a lot of you probably don't even know this, but when you tap on a video now and you swipe down, it just turns into TikTok. That wasn't a thing even a year ago. Reddit, that wasn't a thing a year ago. Probably two years ago, that wasn't a thing on Instagram. T- three years ago, that wasn't a thing on YouTube, right? With YouTube Shorts. So this is all new. And, uh, I don't... It's weird, I haven't heard a single person talk about it, but this is the first time where content can actually go viral on every single platform, and you don't have to write or film a video for Facebook, film a 12-minute video for YouTube, film a sub-60-second video for TikTok, write a tweet for Twitter, and post this on Reddit. You can just do the same thing on every platform.

Lex Fridman 57:07 And the fact that your content has gone viral on multiple platforms regularly means that virality is not accidental.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 57:15 It's not.

Lex Fridman 57:15 Or s- sometimes it can be, of course, but-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 57:17 It's, it's just not.

Lex Fridman 57:18 ... it can be engineered.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 57:19 It's... Yeah. So many people say it's luck, and they're like, "You're just lucky," or this or that. But w- what are we up to? Probably like 1,000 videos over 10 million views? Like, we don't ever have a dud? Like, you could call it luck, but I think it could be trained. I, I, I counsel YouTubers all the time and, and show 'em how to go from getting a couple million views a month to 10 million views a month very easily, if I w-... Even certain ones, like, just one of my friends, like, he was just really struggling. And so, I just started showing him basically everything I know and just doing, like, once every week, sometimes once every two weeks calls, and he went from $10,000 a month on YouTube to over 400,000-

Lex Fridman 57:52 Oh wow.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 57:52 ... just doing these little counseling calls. And so, I mean, people can make excuses all they want and say it's just luck or say, you know, um... Well, anyways, I don't even wanna quote all the other stuff but, it's just... It is. It is a teachable skill, it's a learnable skill. You can study your way to consistently make viral videos, no matter how small your channel is. Even if you have zero subscribers, you could if, if you actually studied hard enough and, like... Basically, if you knew what I knew and some of these n- so I don't sound so arrogant, also, like, some of these other friends that have that I'd say are the smartest people in the world when it comes to content creation online. If you had the knowledge that was in our heads, you could do it very easily. I, I see people do it all the time. Um, and what's even more interesting is I go on podcasts and I say everything I know, and these people are also very open, some of them, I know. It's all out there. And a lot of people, instead of just studying that and trying to absorb and apply it in their own way, they're just like, "No, it's just luck." You know?

Lex Fridman 58:45 So you do lay it all out there, but I gotta push back to one interesting thing. I, I think a crucial component of your success is the idea stage, the idea generation. The brainstorm I heard today, but getting really good at generating ideas. So it's not, it's not just the, uh, the selection of the thumbnail and the title, that creative process. It's also just the, the, the engine of generating really good ideas-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 59:12 Of course, yeah.

Lex Fridman 59:12 ... and getting that. I mean, I, I would say that is probably the thing that needs to be trained the most for most creators, right? That they're, they just don't put enough ideas on paper.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 59:21 Yes, but also n- a lot of creators also just don't... You know, which I didn't either for the longest time, just didn't... don't make good enough content. You know, content that's worthy of getting 10 million views.

Lex Fridman 59:31 In the idea or the execution of the idea?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 59:33 Both. I mean, like, think about how many people just make videos, they film in under 20 minutes, and they don't really put any effort into it and lack... You know. It's like, my first 500 videos didn't deserve to get a million views. Like, there's a reason they didn't. They were terrible, you know what I mean? But at the time, I thought they did, right? And I'm, I'm in the mindset of a lot of small YouTubers where I thought those videos deserved a million views, and I thought the algorithm hated me. But I watch 'em back now and I can tell you exactly why. The videos were fucking horrible, you know what I mean?

Lex Fridman 59:58 Well, so what was the breakthrough for you to start realizing, is to start having a self-awareness, you know, about, "These videos aren't good enough." You're probably still going through that. You're probably still growing to see, like-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 1:00:08 Yeah. Every six months, you should look back and hate your videos or, or at least see things you could improve and be like, "Oh, I could have done this better, that better." If not, then you're not learning quick enough, in my opinion, at least.

Lex Fridman 1:00:19 Where's the source of that learning, even for you now? It's, uh... Just look at metrics?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 1:00:23 I mean, I just got back from a ma- No, I mean, I just got back from a mastermind where I just got like, you know, 10 of the smartest people I knew, and we just locked ourself in a cabin and taught each other stuff. Um, constantly, every day. Not every day now. Probably every other day, I go on a walk and I just call random people. I'll just say, "Teach me something." And, uh, I mean, it's just, uh, you just have to have a never-ending thirst for learning. Like, that's very imperative, especially s- if you want, like, if you want to get on top and then stay on top, the only way to do it is just to constantly be learning, or someone who is learning is just gonna, you know, have a leg up on you in the knowledge game.

Lex Fridman 1:00:55 And what kind of stuff are you... 'Cause you, you've talked about, offline, that you just love learning of all kinds. It doesn't matter, but-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 1:01:01 Yeah.

Lex Fridman 1:01:02 ... in terms of videos, are you studying videos? Are you studying-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 1:01:05 Recently? Not as much. I'm more... To... 'Cause to get to the videos I want, I have to build this business and scale up and hire.

Lex Fridman 1:01:10 Right.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 1:01:10 So more of my recent time has been... Like, my teenage years were spent studying virality and studying content creation. Now, I'm studying how to build a content company so I can actually produce the crazy ideas I wanna produce, if that makes any sense.

Lex Fridman 1:01:22 So yeah, on that, the business side, uh, we talked about hiring. Do you have trouble firing people?

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 1:01:27 No, I'm pretty sure almost every personYeah, actually every person I've ever fired, we just give them severance and... I like to see it more as, it's no ill will. Like if- if there's- if, like, if I fired you, if- is there some other job you want me to help you get? I'll DM them on Twitter. Like, you know, if you wanna go work for, I don't know, insert whatever, MTV, give me someone to DM. I'll DM 'em. Like, you know, I- I try to make it more like a transition and- and do whatever we can to make it as easy as possible.

Lex Fridman 1:01:52 And it's something which is not working for you, 'cause you- you want people, like you said, super passionate.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 1:01:56 'Cause at the end of the day, if you hold someone that you, uh, onto someone that you don't see being here in 10 years, you're just doing 'em a disservice. You're just getting them more ingrained, more enrooted in where you're- where they are. Um, and the sooner you do it and help them move on to their, like, new life, the better.

Lex Fridman 1:02:12 Given all the wisdom you have now, if you were to give advice to somebody or, if you were to start over again, uh, y- you had no money, what would be the first 10 videos you tried to, uh, to make-

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 1:02:23 Mm.

Lex Fridman 1:02:23 ... on a new channel? I guess that's advice for a new person.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 1:02:26 Huh.

Lex Fridman 1:02:27 And nobody knows you.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 1:02:27 Yeah, and nobody knows me. Yeah, like, hypothetically I have a mask on.

Lex Fridman 1:02:30 And you also, I guess, don't have the wisdom.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 1:02:32 If I don't have what I have in my head, then I would say just fail. Like, just, uh, a lot of people get analysis paralysis and they'll just sit there and they'll plan their first video for three months, and-

Lex Fridman 1:02:42 Yeah.

MrBeast (Jimmy Donaldson) 1:02:42 ... I- I'm... Any of you listening, if- if you've, especially if you have zero videos on