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Masters of Scale

How The Atlantic went from losing $20 million a year to profitable (CEO Nicholas Thompson)

When Nicholas Thompson took over as CEO of The Atlantic five years ago, the business was in financial trouble. Now, its profitable and growing.

Nick ThompsonguestJeff Bermanhost

Jan 15, 202642mWatch on YouTube

Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.

CHAPTERS

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Chapter summaries

Why Nick Thompson Took the CEO Job at The Atlantic
Jeff Berman introduces Nick Thompson, CEO of The Atlantic and author of The Running Ground. Thompson explains his move from journalism to business through the idea of comparative advantage in building business models for serious journalism.
- •Thompson worked at Wired and The New Yorker before The Atlantic
- •He didn't plan to be a journalist after college
- •He argues comparative advantage matters more than being the best at something
- •His edge was figuring out business models for serious journalism
- •He made the shift five years ago to test that idea
Weighing the Risk: A Troubled Business with Great Journalism
Thompson recalls taking the job in December 2020 during COVID, knowing The Atlantic was losing $20-30 million a year. He saw that the journalism was excellent and believed he could apply his playbook from The New Yorker and Wired.
- •The Atlantic was reportedly losing $20-30 million a year
- •Staff had been laid off and the live and video teams cut
- •Thompson grew up in Boston, where The Atlantic was founded
- •Great journalism made the situation fixable
- •David Bradley's charm helped seal the decision
Testing the Paywall and Finding the Subscription Hockey Stick
Thompson describes early ideas that didn't move the needle, like digitizing archives and affiliate links, versus the paywall testing that did. He explains the data-driven culture and the logic behind a tighter, smarter paywall.
- •Digitizing the archives cost about $2 million but didn't generate millions
- •The book affiliate business brought in about $7,000 a year
- •The team ran 230 paywall tests last year, inspired by Amazon's culture
- •A harder paywall had trade-offs for advertising, brand and democracy
- •Paywall rules guess who will subscribe based on story and referral source
The Year-Two Dip and Reaching a Million Subscribers
Thompson describes his crisis of conviction when subscriptions dropped in year two. Growth turned around in 2023, and by the end of 2024 The Atlantic was profitable with a million subscribers, now at 1.46 million, with profits reinvested.
- •He worried he wasn't good at the job during the dip
- •He promised staff a 10% bonus at a million subscribers and profitability
- •Leading indicators improved about 18 months in
- •Subscribers rose from about 800,000 to 1.46 million
- •Profits go back into hiring journalists and growing influence
Why The Atlantic Signed a Licensing Deal with OpenAI
Thompson explains the OpenAI deal despite strong internal anger, including a story called The Deal With the Devil. He says AI companies scraped data and built competing products, so he chose to make a deal rather than only complain.
- •The journalism side ran critical stories about the deal
- •AI companies scraped The Atlantic's data against its terms of service
- •Thompson says the choice is to sue or to make deals
- •OpenAI agreed to pay for licensing and RAG rights and include The Atlantic in planning
- •The Atlantic has reserved all rights and is party to another lawsuit
Lessons from the Platform Era and Building Direct Relationships
Berman lays out three past responses to platforms, and Thompson says tech partners can't be trusted to rely on goodwill, only on economic incentives. He advocates direct relationships and a mutually beneficial exchange of value with AI companies, citing Pro rata as a model.
- •Berman describes the NBA, Viacom and Netflix paths
- •Thompson says partners are capitalists and should be trusted only on incentives
- •The Atlantic invests in print, its app and newsletters for direct relationships
- •One-time licensing fees aren't a lasting ecosystem
- •Pro rata pays publishers by share of an answer
- •Ideas include subscriber call-outs and subscription integration
Creating Leverage Against AI Companies
Asked how to convince AI firms to work with publishers, Thompson says they have less leverage than before. He lists points of pressure: blocking scrapers, ISPs, legislation, lawsuits and public pressure for an ethical AI reputation.
- •AI companies believe their ultimate value is infinite
- •robots.txt was ignored, but Cloudflare blocks bots effectively
- •Legislation might happen in Europe or Australia
- •Winning lawsuits would shift the balance
- •An ethical AI reputation could become a brand advantage
Should CEOs Build a Personal Brand? Thompson's LinkedIn Videos
Thompson explains why he kept his daily LinkedIn video series after becoming CEO: it forces him to keep learning and reaches CMOs. He says it only works if unfiltered, and he doesn't advise all CEOs to do it.
- •The series evolved from the most interesting thing in tech to AI
- •It acts as a learning mechanism and a marketing channel
- •CMOs watching the videos help advertising conversations
- •It works only if unscripted and not run through comms
- •Thompson's TV, acting and street music background helped, and opportunity cost matters
Leading Through Turmoil: Church and State, and Atlantic Values
Berman asks how to lead a values-driven organization in turbulent times. Thompson describes the split between the editorial team under Goldberg and the business side, why he limits public statements to issues core to the business, and the founding principles that keep diverse views welcome.
- •Goldberg runs editorial and Thompson runs business, both reporting to the board
- •He speaks publicly on AI, copyright and press freedom, not on ICE
- •Principles: spirit of generosity, force of ideas, sense of belonging
- •The founding statement says 'of no party or clique'
- •The Atlantic publishes writers who disagree, like Adam Serwer and David Frum
Competing with Substack and Independent Creators for Talent
Thompson discusses the risk of talent leaving to go independent, citing Derek Thompson. He says The Atlantic must offer value through editing, promotion and reach, give room for independent projects, and mix star hires with young talent.
- •Writers can earn more on Substack than at The Atlantic
- •The Atlantic offers editing, fact-checking, SEO, reach and network
- •David Frum's YouTube show shows room for independent work
- •Thompson wants a mix of the Yankees and the Devil Rays, citing Sally Jenkins
- •Young talent could do 10 years of great work before going independent
The Running Ground: Lessons from Thompson's Father
Berman introduces Thompson's memoir and asks about his father. Thompson recounts his father's rapid rise and later decline, how his view of him matured, and what he does differently and the same as a parent.
- •His father rose through Andover, Stanford and a Rhodes scholarship
- •He later struggled with drinking, depression and bankruptcy
- •Thompson was both most like his father and most desperate not to become him
- •Oxford dons suggested his father should be a journalist
- •Thompson is more present with his kids but still brings them along to meetings and interviews
What Running Unlocked: Mental Blocks, Pain and Pacing
Thompson describes being stuck at a 2:43 marathon after thyroid cancer until a mental block lifted after his father's death. He draws lessons on pain, pacing and effort, and says he guides employees by asking what they could accomplish and letting them reach it.
- •He ran 2:43 for about 12 years after his cancer treatment
- •After his father died he ran 2:38, 2:34 and 2:29
- •He realized a mental block was holding him back
- •Improvement requires going at an uncomfortable pace
- •He leads employees to their potential by asking questions, as his coaches did with him
A Small-World Surprise and Closing
Berman confesses that a first-kiss story in Thompson's book involves his own cousin, Kerry Politz. They share a laugh before Berman thanks Thompson and recommends the book.
- •The story is from a camp in New Hampshire
- •Berman texted his family group chat a photo of the page
- •Thompson sends greetings to Kerry
- •Berman calls the book his favorite memoir of last year

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