Skip to content

By playing, you agree to uListen's Terms and Privacy Policy and YouTube's Terms of Service.

Masters of ScaleMasters of Scale

The Barnes & Noble comeback, from the CEO who did it (James Daunt)

CEO James Daunt has now rescued two iconic bookstore chains: Barnes & Noble and Waterstones.

Jeff BermanhostJames Dauntguest
Aug 21, 202634mWatch on YouTube ↗

Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

James Daunt on reviving bookstores through autonomy, curation, and culture

  1. James Daunt describes building and turning around bookstores by emphasizing curation, presentation, service, and qualitative judgment rather than optimizing to centralized data.
  2. He explains that reviving Waterstones and Barnes & Noble required reversing a cultural loss of confidence and empowering booksellers to run locally responsive stores.
  3. He recounts counterintuitive moves—like selling Kindles in-store—to demystify perceived threats and keep staff focused on book discovery and customer experience.
  4. He argues that flattening hierarchies, creating collective responsibility, and avoiding blame for mistakes are core to sustaining autonomy and culture change.
  5. He says Barnes & Noble operates with no marketing department, relying instead on authentic, local bookseller activity (including BookTok), while approaching AI-written books with strong skepticism and a push for filtering and transparency.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Great bookstores are built on curation and judgment more than on data.

He argued that store quality comes from qualitative decisions about curation, space allocation, presentation, and service, and that those decisions can be taught. He described data as an occasional reference point, but said the most compelling stores often require judgment that contradicts what the numbers suggest.

Central control is the hidden risk of being “data-driven” in books retail.

He said centralized data tends to enable uniformity across stores, which he framed as harmful for bookselling. He described deliberately “driving out” data early to empower local teams, then bringing data back later once the culture can use it without turning it into control.

The turnaround hinged on restoring booksellers’ confidence in the in-store experience.

He described Waterstones as suffering from a misplaced loss of confidence in the face of Amazon, and said the remedy was getting booksellers to believe they could run good bookstores so customers would return. He framed bookstores as offering discovery and enjoyment that differs from efficient online purchasing.

Selling a “threat” product can be a tactic to remove fear and refocus on discovery.

He said Waterstones sold Kindles not primarily to chase e-book sales, but to reduce fear among staff by putting the device “in the middle” of the store. He claimed the feared behavior—people browsing in-store then ordering digitally—happened only in a “vanishingly small percentage,” and that selling Kindles helped demystify them.

Autonomy and collective responsibility rebuild culture, but require a no-blame response to mistakes.

He said his approach is to flatten hierarchies and build collective responsibility, even though teams sometimes prefer being told what to do when things get hard. He also described responding to mistakes by quickly acknowledging what’s wrong and moving on without blame, which he said makes it easier for junior people to speak up.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

As long as we leave it to the kids with the blue hair, we'll be fine.

— James Daunt

The data can occasionally be an interesting reference point, but it's the judgments you make almost in defiance of the data that will, will give you an inspiring store.

— James Daunt

Changing cultures is, is, is like stretching on a rubber band. You know, the, the minute you relax, it just pops back.

— James Daunt

Mine is just, "Okay, it was idiotic. Move on. What are we doing now?"

— James Daunt

If you're reading widely and properly, books w- are a civilizing force. They, they invite you to, uh, question, invite you to reflect, in-invite you to be more understanding, and, uh, all of those things are very necessary for readit- for leaders.

— James Daunt

Read the available transcript
Founding Daunt Books and early survivalRetail judgment vs. data-driven uniformitySpace allocation and curation examplesWaterstones turnaround and restoring confidenceSelling Kindles to demystify e-booksBarnes & Noble turnaround parallels and culture timelinesFlattening hierarchies and collective responsibility at stores and HQs across Waterstones and Barnes & Noble, including handling mistakes without blame in order to increase autonomy and psychological safety, and a no-marketing approach to BookTok, plus skepticism toward AI-written books and emphasis on transparency

SPEAKERS

  • Jeff Berman

    host

    Host of Masters of Scale.

  • James Daunt

    guest

    CEO of Barnes & Noble and managing director of Waterstones; founder of Daunt Books.

High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.

Get more out of YouTube videos.

Read along on your phone, search it beside the video, or ask your favorite AI app what was said.