6 Signs You’re Disconnected From Your Power and How to Get It Back | The Mel Robbins Podcast

Mel Robbins 0:03 Today, it is gonna be one hell of a profound conversation. I just feel it in my bones because I'm going to introduce you to this woman named Dr. Thema Bryant. Our conversation today is gonna help you connect with the truth of who you are. Even if you've never truly met the most powerful version of yourself, she says, "You can always come back home to yourself." Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so glad that you tuned in to the podcast today. I'm actually out in Los Angeles for our daughter's college graduation, and while I was out here, I reached out to a woman that I have just... I, I don't even know how to describe the level of respect and awe. I've never met her before. You're gonna meet her the same moment that I meet her, and I just know that today, it is gonna be one hell of a profound conversation. I just feel it in my bones because I'm going to introduce you to this woman named Dr. Thema Bryant. Now, Dr. Thema wears so many hats, and the one thing that is the through line in her work is that people around the world who are seeking deeper connection and meaning in life trust her. They turn to her for guidance. She is a psychologist, a minister, a tenured professor at Pepperdine University. She's a New York Times best-selling author, and in 2023, she was named the very first Black female president of the American Psychological Association. Dr. Bryant completed her doctorate in clinical psychology at Duke University and her postdoctoral training at Harvard Medical School Center's Victims of Violence Program. Our conversation today will lead you on a journey back to who you really are, so that you can own your full identity and fly. Dr. Thema Bryant is gonna help you connect with the truth of who you are. Even if you've never truly met the most powerful version of yourself, she says, "You can always come back home to yourself." Dr. Thema Bryant's brand new book, Homecoming: Overcome Fear and Trauma to Reclaim Your Whole Authentic Self-

Dr. Thema Bryant 2:27 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 2:27 ... it is a must-read.

Dr. Thema Bryant 2:28 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 2:28 Dr. Thema, I am so thrilled that you are here.

Dr. Thema Bryant 2:32 I am thrilled to be here. I love you, I love your work, and I love getting the word out about the journey home, because we need it.

Mel Robbins 2:43 Oh, do we ever. You know, I was... I'm, I'm pretty emotional today-

Dr. Thema Bryant 2:48 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 2:48 ... because I'm here in Los Angeles because our, uh, one of our daughters is graduating from college-

Dr. Thema Bryant 2:53 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 2:53 ... in a couple of days, and I am going, after our interview, to hear her do her final senior performance.

Dr. Thema Bryant 3:03 Ah, beautiful.

Mel Robbins 3:05 And it's a full-circle moment 'cause I'm going to the theater where she got her invitation to audition-

Dr. Thema Bryant 3:12 Wow.

Mel Robbins 3:12 ... to even be admitted into the program.

Dr. Thema Bryant 3:14 Wow.

Mel Robbins 3:15 And I've been calling it a full-circle moment.

Dr. Thema Bryant 3:17 Mm.

Mel Robbins 3:18 But what I realize is, it's a homecoming.

Dr. Thema Bryant 3:21 It is.

Mel Robbins 3:23 And I guess-

Dr. Thema Bryant 3:24 Mm.

Mel Robbins 3:24 ... that's where I wanna start.

Dr. Thema Bryant 3:25 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 3:26 Because it makes me emotional to think about this because I lived for so long feeling what you would call psychologically homeless.

Dr. Thema Bryant 3:42 Yes.

Mel Robbins 3:43 Disconnected from my true self.

Dr. Thema Bryant 3:45 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 3:46 And the feeling

Mel Robbins 3:50 that you have when you finally feel whole, it is unlike anything I've ever experienced.

Dr. Thema Bryant 3:59 Yes. And I appreciate the honesty and the transparency because we do get disconnected. You know, life disconnects us, and, you know, if you don't mind saying how could you tell you were disconnected, or what was it like when you were psychologically wandering?

Mel Robbins 4:21 It felt like there was the physical me-

Dr. Thema Bryant 4:26 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 4:26 ... walking around in my life, doing the things that we all do, getting up, going to work-

Dr. Thema Bryant 4:32 Mm.

Mel Robbins 4:32 ... taking care of the kids, calling friends, watching TV-

Dr. Thema Bryant 4:37 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 4:37 ... but there was a part of me that was separate, that felt, um, I guess you could call it like a knowing.

Dr. Thema Bryant 4:48 Mm.

Mel Robbins 4:49 I, I wonder if even that critical voice that we listen to is also almost like grinding at you because you're not really on a path where you feel like you are truly... I mean, and sometimes I think back, I think, I, I didn't even feel like I was alive for crying out loud.

Dr. Thema Bryant 5:09 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 5:09 Just on autopilot.

Dr. Thema Bryant 5:10 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 5:10 Just feeling no spiritual center.

Dr. Thema Bryant 5:14 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 5:14 No connection to values. Just existing.

Dr. Thema Bryant 5:17 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 5:18 And so I guess it would be, for me, this feeling of separateness.

Dr. Thema Bryant 5:22 Mm. Yeah. Separated from yourself and then separated from other people because you're surrounded by people but they don't really see. You know, you can fool a lot of people, including yourself, right? So a part of when I talk about homecoming is telling yourself the truth and then living based on that truth that you tell yourself.

Mel Robbins 5:46 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 5:46 Right? Because I can lie to myself, that social script is, "I'm fine, I'm fine."

Mel Robbins 5:51 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 5:52 And, you know, I'm in a lot of faith-based communities and the term is like, "I'm blessed." Right? It's like, yeah, you can be blessed and also have a lot going on-... you know, blessed and lost. So, uh, that awakening, what I like to say, and I think I say it in the book, is can we get to the place where we can admit, "I miss myself"?

Mel Robbins 6:15 Wow. Okay. I just wanna make sure-

Dr. Thema Bryant 6:19 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 6:20 ... that you listening to us just got what Dr. Thema just said to you, "I miss myself."

Dr. Thema Bryant 6:29 Yeah. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 6:30 How does somebody who feels like they don't even know who they are-

Dr. Thema Bryant 6:33 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 6:33 Like, you hear that a lot. "I don't even know who I am anymore."

Dr. Thema Bryant 6:35 Yes. Yeah. So, I like to say even if you feel like you were never at home with yourself, you can still come home to yourself. And that is a reality for a lot of people who grew up with stress and trauma.

Mel Robbins 6:51 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 6:51 Who perhaps were born into families where there was a lot of stress and trauma, so you learned early to be in survival mode, or you learned to play small, or you learned to people please. And so, you never got to what I like to call unfold, right? You never got to connect with the truth of who you are. And so, even if you have never met you, you can come home to you. And that's kind of the good news of this process.

Mel Robbins 7:21 Wow. There's a West African, uh, fable-

Dr. Thema Bryant 7:25 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 7:25 ... that you tell at the very beginning of the book-

Dr. Thema Bryant 7:27 Yes.

Mel Robbins 7:27 ... that I think will give us a visual-

Dr. Thema Bryant 7:30 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 7:30 ... and a story to lock onto that we can keep coming back to-

Dr. Thema Bryant 7:33 Yes.

Mel Robbins 7:33 ... to help keep people in the conversation.

Dr. Thema Bryant 7:37 Yes.

Mel Robbins 7:37 So would you mind telling us that-

Dr. Thema Bryant 7:38 Oh, I- I-

Mel Robbins 7:39 ... like what is it? Is it a fable?

Dr. Thema Bryant 7:40 Yes.

Mel Robbins 7:40 What are you-

Dr. Thema Bryant 7:41 Yeah, you can say it's a, a fable. I, um, I lived in Liberia, West Africa for high school, so I'm gonna do it in my version of Liberian English, but any Liberians who are listening will tell you-

Mel Robbins 7:53 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 7:53 ... "Ah, that's not the for true." (laughs)

Mel Robbins 7:56 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 7:56 Uh, so, um, once upon a time, once upon a time in West Africa, there was one animal expert, and this animal expert knew every animal that was in the bush. You people say forest, but the real word is bush. If he see giraffe,

Dr. Thema Bryant 8:12 he know the thing giraffe. If he see lion, he know the thing lion. So, this animal expert is walking one day, so, so, so, and he goes behind one farm. And he's passing the farm, and behind the farm, he sees so, so, so chickens. In the middle of the chickens is one eagle. Eh, hmm. He said, "What a eagle doing with these chickens?" He go to the front of the farm, and he say, "Bop, bop." You people say knock, knock?

Mel Robbins 8:35 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 8:35 The real sound, that's bop, bop. He say, "Bop, bop." The man inside say, "Who that?" The man outside say, "That me. You must open the door and see." So, he opens the door. He say, "What are your business here?" He say, "In the back of you farm, you got so, so, so chickens. But in the middle is one eagle." The farmer laughed. He said, "No, I only have chicken." The animal expert said, "I'll show you." They go to the back of the farm. He picks up the one he's calling an eagle. He puts it on his arm. He says, "Listen to me. You not chicken. Chickens can't fly. You can fly. Go ahead and fly." The eagle listened to him, but then he looked down at his chicken brothers and sisters eating their chicken food. He jumped down off the man's arm, and he go back with the chickens. The farmer starts laughing at the animal expert. The animal expert is vexed, eh. He said, "I coming to go." He storm away. The next day, he come back. He come so soon in the morning, God himself was not awake yet, eh. He come. He say, what? "Bop, bop." The man inside say, "Who that?" The man outside say, "That me. Open the door and see."

Mel Robbins 9:44 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 9:44 He opens the door. He takes him. He says, "What are you doing here?" He said, "I came here because you have one eagle." This time he took the eagle, and he climbed to the roof of the barn. They get to the top of the barn, and at that moment, the sun started to rise. Eh. The animal expert says to the eagle, "All your life people told you you were a chicken. They told you talk like chicken, act like chicken,-"

Mel Robbins 10:11 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 10:11 "... walk like chicken, but you're not a chicken. You're an eagle." "Hmm," the eagle said to himself, "I think if I don't try this thing, this man will come every day bothering me."

Mel Robbins 10:24 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 10:24 "Maybe today I will try it." So he spread his wings, and he started to fly. And I tell you, my eyes could never see him again. And that's the whole reason why you and I are here today, because there are those who are listening who have been treated like chickens, dating like chickens,-

Mel Robbins 10:43 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 10:43 ... picking jobs like chickens, but you're not a chicken. You're an eagle, so fly.

Mel Robbins 10:49 Oh.

Dr. Thema Bryant 10:50 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 10:50 I just gotta do that right now. Oh, my gosh.

Dr. Thema Bryant 10:54 Oh.

Mel Robbins 10:54 That, that is why this book is required reading-

Dr. Thema Bryant 11:00 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 11:01 ... for everyone. This is why you wrote the book.

Dr. Thema Bryant 11:04 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 11:04 In fact, I would love for you to read this part-

Dr. Thema Bryant 11:06 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 11:07 ... right here up to there.

Dr. Thema Bryant 11:09 Oh, sure. The eagle made it home. He made it to the truth of who he was. This is Homecoming. I wrote this book for all of you who, at different points in your life, have found

Dr. Thema Bryant 11:26 yourself living like someone you are not. You may have started acting different because of how you were treated or what other people told you about yourself or how you saw others acting. You have not felt comfortable or safe enough to truly be yourself or to feel at home in your identity. The recognized and unrecognized traumas of your past may have taught you to hide your gifts and voice in order to survive. This book facilitates your journey back to who you really are so you can own your full identity and fly.

Mel Robbins 12:07 Beautiful.

Dr. Thema Bryant 12:08 Thank you.

Mel Robbins 12:09 Thank you.

Dr. Thema Bryant 12:10 Mm. And it has been such a gift being able to get this out to people, because so many of us are hungry for more. Like you have the sense, this can't be it.

Mel Robbins 12:24 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 12:25 Right? (laughs) Like this-

Mel Robbins 12:26 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 12:26 This just can't be it, right? In whatever area of my life, and so, uh, to know that healing is work but we're worth it.

Mel Robbins 12:37 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 12:38 Right?

Mel Robbins 12:38 Yeah.

Dr. Thema Bryant 12:39 And when we are not at home, we're paying a cost anyway. How much has it cost me to live some other woman's life? (breathes deeply) I don't wanna pay it anymore.

Mel Robbins 12:52 Yeah.

Dr. Thema Bryant 12:52 Yeah. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 12:53 It cost you your life.

Dr. Thema Bryant 12:54 Right. It cost me your life, absolutely.

Mel Robbins 12:58 So let's walk through the process of homecoming.

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:00 Okay. Yes.

Mel Robbins 13:01 I'm an eagle in disguise-

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:03 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 13:03 ... as a chicken.

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:04 Right.

Mel Robbins 13:05 I come in-

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:06 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 13:06 ... and I wanna begin this journey.

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:08 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 13:09 And I have the honor of sitting down across from you-

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:14 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 13:14 ... Dr. Thema.

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:15 Yes.

Mel Robbins 13:16 But I don't know I'm an eagle.

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:18 Right.

Mel Robbins 13:19 Whenever y- When any patient comes in-

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:20 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 13:20 ... and sits down, that you work with, are you like, "Oop, we got another eagle-

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:24 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 13:24 ... who's in a, who's in a chicken suit right now"?

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:26 Right. Yeah. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 13:27 (laughs) How do we start? Like what-

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:29 Yes.

Mel Robbins 13:29 Where is the beginning-

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:30 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 13:30 ... step-

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:31 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 13:31 ... to your own homecoming?

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:34 I start every session with the breath.

Mel Robbins 13:38 Okay.

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:38 Because we're so busy

Dr. Thema Bryant 13:42 and scattered, and we have been tricked, duped, hoodwinked into believing I can prove my worthiness with my busyness. And so people can come in, uh, you know, running a million miles and have believed themselves that, "If I'm so productive, I must be at home."

Mel Robbins 14:03 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 14:04 But we often are not. And so I invite people to take a moment to tune into their breath, to inhale in through the nose (inhales) and exhale out through the mouth (exhales) and to begin to scan their bodies, noticing any place where you're holding tension, and sending breath throughout the body (inhales) giving yourself permission to breathe and release as we set intentions for self-compassion and for clarity. And that's how we begin. (inhales)

Mel Robbins 14:51 I feel different.

Dr. Thema Bryant 14:52 Yeah. Right? Tell me the different. (smacks lips) What did you notice?

Mel Robbins 14:58 Um, I just noticed that my mind went quiet.

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:02 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 15:03 And I dropped out of my head-

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:05 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 15:06 ... and into my body.

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:07 That's it.

Mel Robbins 15:08 And there was a slowing-

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:10 Mm.

Mel Robbins 15:10 ... that kinda went with this knowing-

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:12 Right.

Mel Robbins 15:13 ... that this feels better-

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:15 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 15:15 ... than the thoughts that are racing-

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:18 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 15:18 ... or the things that are on my mind-

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:20 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 15:20 ... or the sound that is distracting me, that it feels-

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:23 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 15:23 ... better.

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:24 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 15:24 What's it feel like for you?

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:25 Right. It is the h- the homecoming, that I... And that's a part of the closing our eyes or lowering our gaze, is when we're, uh, open, we're open to all the stimulation around us.

Mel Robbins 15:39 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:39 And especially if you're, uh, a, a trauma survivor, you are tuned into other people, right? So what are they thinking, what are they feeling, what do they need?

Mel Robbins 15:50 It's dangerous to relax-

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:51 It is.

Mel Robbins 15:51 ... when you're a victim of trauma-

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:53 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 15:53 ... and discrimination-

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:54 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 15:54 ... and violence.

Dr. Thema Bryant 15:55 Yeah. Then truth shows up, right? And many of us suppress and run and hide, and so then that heightens the belief that I can't see myself.

Mel Robbins 16:08 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 16:09 Right? And so that keeps us running. So instead, to give people permission, and with the support, 'cause they're not havin' to face it by themselves, I'm with them, for us to actually tune in to what's going on in there and, uh, to start to look at, "What are the signs of my disconnection?" So that's where the journey begins for us to notice, right? "Where is my disconnection showing up in me?"

Mel Robbins 16:37 So if homecoming means coming back home and feeling connected-

Dr. Thema Bryant 16:43 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 16:43 ... to your most authentic self-

Dr. Thema Bryant 16:45 Right.

Mel Robbins 16:45 ... to recognizing the eagle-

Dr. Thema Bryant 16:47 Yes.

Mel Robbins 16:47 ... that is in there-

Dr. Thema Bryant 16:48 Yes.

Mel Robbins 16:49 ... and ignoring what everybody said-

Dr. Thema Bryant 16:51 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 16:51 ... and all the stuff around you that makes you chicken-

Dr. Thema Bryant 16:53 Right.

Mel Robbins 16:53 ... makes you feel like a chicken-

Dr. Thema Bryant 16:55 Right.

Mel Robbins 16:55 ... what are the signs-

Dr. Thema Bryant 16:57 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 16:57 ... of disconnection?

Dr. Thema Bryant 16:58 So when we are in a place of feeling powerless, hopelessness, uh, despair, those are indicators that we have lost sight of our power and voice.

Mel Robbins 17:11 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 17:11 'Cause the truth is, we do have capacity, voice, and agency, but we've been in environments where that wasn't welcomed or that wasn't responded to, and so then that can leave us feeling like we're empty.

Mel Robbins 17:23 And there's a story you tell in the book-

Dr. Thema Bryant 17:25 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 17:25 ... about, um, being at a event where you're giving one of the bazillion keynote speeches (laughs) that you give-

Dr. Thema Bryant 17:32 (laughs) Yeah.

Mel Robbins 17:33 ... and a survivor-

Dr. Thema Bryant 17:35 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 17:35 ... of sexual abuse comes up to you.

Dr. Thema Bryant 17:37 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 17:37 Can you share that story?

Dr. Thema Bryant 17:39 Yes. So I was speaking at a conference, uh, on sexual assault, and I'm a sexual assault survivor. And I give the presentation, and when it's over, people are responding really well, and then I'm standing there in this line, which I know you are used to-

Mel Robbins 17:54 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 17:54 ... and there's a long line of people waiting to kinda share their, their response or their connection to what you said. And, uh, I see toward the back of the line, uh, this woman who we would say had a, had a bad attitude, right?

Mel Robbins 18:08 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 18:08 But I know i- attitude is despair, but, uh-

Mel Robbins 18:12 Hold on a second.

Dr. Thema Bryant 18:13 Uh-huh.

Mel Robbins 18:14 ... attitude is despair?

Dr. Thema Bryant 18:16 Yeah. So a form of depression people often don't recognize is irritable depression,

Dr. Thema Bryant 18:23 right? Yeah.

Mel Robbins 18:25 Wow.

Dr. Thema Bryant 18:26 And- and people don't respond to compassion, with compassion to women with a quote unquote bad attitude. But if we said, "When I see that woman, she's in despair," maybe then I would respond with compassion.

Mel Robbins 18:38 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 18:39 But some of us, by family, by culture, by religion were taught that sadness is weakness, so we mask our sadness with anger, with bitterness, with attitude, right? But underneath it is the despair.

Mel Robbins 18:57 It's so true.

Dr. Thema Bryant 18:58 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 18:58 It's like an iceberg, you see the anger on the top.

Dr. Thema Bryant 19:01 Uh-huh.

Mel Robbins 19:01 But there's something so much deeper going on.

Dr. Thema Bryant 19:02 So much deeper underneath.

Mel Robbins 19:04 Wow.

Dr. Thema Bryant 19:05 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 19:05 So you could pick up on the attitude and the energy.

Dr. Thema Bryant 19:08 Mm-hmm. But I know there's the story there.

Mel Robbins 19:12 Yeah.

Dr. Thema Bryant 19:12 Right? Especially because when you know you haven't done anything, right? (laughs)

Mel Robbins 19:15 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 19:15 So I am r- I am on, feeling on the receiving end of your upset, and I haven't done anything, so then I know there's a story.

Mel Robbins 19:25 Yeah.

Dr. Thema Bryant 19:26 So, you know, when it gets to be her place, uh, she's next in the line, and she says to me with the attitude, um, "So you're a survivor?" And I said, "Look, I just gave a whole keynote on it." (laughs) Right?

Mel Robbins 19:40 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 19:40 I say, "Yes." And she says, "Well, you don't look like any survivor I've ever known." So the doubting can be triggering as we think about not being believed.

Mel Robbins 19:52 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 19:53 But then I go deeper than that, uh, and decide not to get defensive. Instead, I just let her question/statement hang in the air, and I just, uh, what I would say soften.

Mel Robbins 20:09 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 20:10 Right? I soften and I just look at her, and it's like now she can see me. Like on the stage with my PowerPoint and my pantsuit, she couldn't s- she couldn't see me, right? She could only see the strength and the, uh, oratorical skills.

Mel Robbins 20:28 Yeah.

Dr. Thema Bryant 20:28 But now standing in front of her, kind of woman to woman, she could see, uh, the vulnerability.

Mel Robbins 20:36 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 20:37 And seeing the vulnerability, she said, "You know, the only survivors I've ever known were, uh, fat and, uh, poor like me." (breathes deeply) Right? So then it's the different ways our surviving shows up. And for some of us who are often overlooked, we coped with busyness and with what I would call a spirit of excellence. And when you are excellent, people don't notice your wounds.

Mel Robbins 21:17 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 21:18 And sometimes you don't notice them, you feel you've outrun it.

Mel Robbins 21:21 Yes.

Dr. Thema Bryant 21:21 But it's there, late at night, early in the morning when you're in certain environments, it shows up that it's still bleeding, and you've just gotten busy but not healed.

Mel Robbins 21:33 What's the difference... I guess, what is healing?

Dr. Thema Bryant 21:37 Yeah. So

Dr. Thema Bryant 21:39 it is the homecoming of being, ah, accepting and loving of myself. When I accept me, I have nothing to prove. There's a, uh, life coach here in- in Los Angeles, uh, mm, I'm gonna- I'm gonna come, I'm gonna give you her name later.

Mel Robbins 22:09 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 22:09 But she has a beautiful quote I love which is, uh, "I don't want to be driven, I want to be called." And this idea of like when you're driven, your trauma can drive you.

Mel Robbins 22:23 Yeah.

Dr. Thema Bryant 22:23 Like your insecurity can, you know, where you have to constantly prove yourself and it's this franticness, versus when I'm at home then I can be in flow with what is me. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 22:38 Wow. Um, if you have somebody in your life who has that irritable depression-

Dr. Thema Bryant 22:46 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 22:48 ... how do you practice softening-

Dr. Thema Bryant 22:50 Yes.

Mel Robbins 22:51 ... and compassion? 'Cause oftentimes if you're around somebody who's constantly irritable-

Dr. Thema Bryant 22:55 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 22:56 ... who is always angry about or frustrated with something-

Dr. Thema Bryant 23:01 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 23:01 I have several people that come to mind right now-

Dr. Thema Bryant 23:03 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 23:03 ... in my own life.

Dr. Thema Bryant 23:04 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 23:05 What are some- some tools-

Dr. Thema Bryant 23:07 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 23:08 ... that we can use-

Dr. Thema Bryant 23:10 Right.

Mel Robbins 23:10 ... to practice more compassion in those moments-

Dr. Thema Bryant 23:12 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 23:12 ... so that we lead with compassion rather-

Dr. Thema Bryant 23:16 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 23:16 ... than get so reactive?

Dr. Thema Bryant 23:18 Right.

Dr. Thema Bryant 23:19 And I love that question because I think what we often get pulled into is being combative with them.

Mel Robbins 23:25 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 23:26 And they're always gonna out-combat us. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 23:28 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 23:29 Because they're in warrior mode, right?

Mel Robbins 23:31 Right.

Dr. Thema Bryant 23:31 And so, uh, you know, when they come with the intensity, uh, then I respond to the softness, and I would say one of two ways. One is if I- if I can relate at all, I'll give my own experience, right? And that helps them not to feel judged, right?

Mel Robbins 23:51 Yep.

Dr. Thema Bryant 23:51 I'm not saying like calling you out 'cause I see what you're doing. It's just saying, "You know, there was a time where..." And whatever that story is. And often I- I have learned transparency is contagious.

Mel Robbins 24:04 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 24:05 And sometimes then people say, "Oh, me too," right? (laughs)

Mel Robbins 24:08 Right.

Dr. Thema Bryant 24:08 And I'm like, "Yeah, you too." (laughs)

Mel Robbins 24:09 Yeah. (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 24:09 "Yeah, you too." Uh, so the testimonial, or if I know anything that's been happening in their life...... to name that, to say, 'cause they're responding with all this intensity about distraction.

Mel Robbins 24:24 Right.

Dr. Thema Bryant 24:25 So then, I will say, um, "Well, I really wanted to check in 'cause I know this is such a busy time with you. You know, that you're moving, that you're this, that you're that." And for us to ask a deeper question, because the how are you gives us finding you.

Mel Robbins 24:41 Yeah.

Dr. Thema Bryant 24:42 Right? So break out of the script, and so instead, with everything you're holding, you know, what's been helping you to manage? Right? Or what do you need? Or how can I help?

Mel Robbins 24:54 Yeah.

Dr. Thema Bryant 24:54 Um, so I'm speaking to the unspoken.

Mel Robbins 24:58 If you bring in the chicken and the eagle-

Dr. Thema Bryant 25:00 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 25:01 ... can we use that, that fable to describe that moment where the survivor in the audience-

Dr. Thema Bryant 25:10 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 25:11 ... has this irritable, depressive moment with you?

Dr. Thema Bryant 25:15 Right.

Mel Robbins 25:16 What is happening for her in your opinion-

Dr. Thema Bryant 25:18 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 25:19 ... as a psychologist?

Dr. Thema Bryant 25:20 Yeah. So, I like to say, "The reason you feel unsettled is because you're not supposed to settle."

Mel Robbins 25:31 Say that again?

Dr. Thema Bryant 25:33 The reason you feel unsettled is because you're not supposed to settle. So what area of your life are you settling?

Mel Robbins 25:45 And I would imagine that any area where you feel unsettled.

Dr. Thema Bryant 25:48 Mm-hmm. Right. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 25:50 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 25:50 There it is.

Mel Robbins 25:51 There it is.

Dr. Thema Bryant 25:51 There it is. So, you know, what happens is often we are focused so much, uh, outwardly, if only. If only my spouse would do this, if only my kids would do this, if only my supervisor would do this, um, and in this moment, we don't have the capacity to shift them, so how might you want to shift? Right?

Mel Robbins 26:13 That's a big ask.

Dr. Thema Bryant 26:15 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 26:15 'Cause it's easier to try to order everybody else around in your life.

Dr. Thema Bryant 26:18 Oh, yes, and frustrating-

Mel Robbins 26:20 Yes.

Dr. Thema Bryant 26:20 ... and annoying-

Mel Robbins 26:21 Yes.

Dr. Thema Bryant 26:21 ... and, and draining, but it also, uh, lets me off the hook because I can keep waiting for their homecoming, right? I can come home to (laughs) myself when they come home to themselves. Well, everybody is on their own timing, and what I like to remind myself is I don't want to be... I don't wanna keep my healing hostage waiting for the healing of those who harmed me.

Mel Robbins 26:49 Oh. Wow.

Dr. Thema Bryant 26:51 Mm-hmm. And that's what we're doing when we're like waiting for the apology.

Mel Robbins 26:55 Yeah.

Dr. Thema Bryant 26:55 It's like, I can't heal

Dr. Thema Bryant 26:57 'til you see what you did to me.

Mel Robbins 26:59 Yes.

Dr. Thema Bryant 26:59 Like, that could be years.

Mel Robbins 27:01 It might be your whole lifetime.

Dr. Thema Bryant 27:02 It may be your whole life, right? They have gone on with their lives, they don't care, they're not thinking about it, and so I wanna take my healing out of their hands.

Mel Robbins 27:13 Mm. And give it back to yourself.

Dr. Thema Bryant 27:16 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 27:16 And so the process of coming home and the homecoming is the act of self-healing.

Dr. Thema Bryant 27:22 Yes. Yes.

Mel Robbins 27:23 It's about joining back in with yourself.

Dr. Thema Bryant 27:25 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 27:26 You know, because we have such a huge international audience and therapy can be very expensive-

Dr. Thema Bryant 27:32 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 27:32 ... I would love for you to, um, read these six questions that you often ask patients-

Dr. Thema Bryant 27:40 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 27:41 ... that can be a sign of what you call psychological homelessness.

Dr. Thema Bryant 27:44 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 27:45 And so, I would also love for you, Dr. Thema, to talk about what is psychological homelessness?

Dr. Thema Bryant 27:52 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 27:52 I've never heard that phrase before-

Dr. Thema Bryant 27:55 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 27:55 ... but it makes so much sense.

Dr. Thema Bryant 27:57 Mm-hmm. So, uh, psychological homelessness is this sense of wandering, being ungrounded, unrooted, confused, and we can spend years saying, "I don't know. I'm not sure." And even when I'm waiting for other people to give me the answer, then they're my compass, but I need a compass.

Mel Robbins 28:25 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 28:25 'Cause that's what we talk about with therapy, is at some point, people need to internalize it, so it's not just every week, people coming and saying, "So Thema, what do you think?"

Mel Robbins 28:35 Yeah.

Dr. Thema Bryant 28:35 Right? They have to get to the point where, "I was having this conversation with my sister, and I realized I was doing this, and so I sh-" Well, there it is. Right now, you have become your compass, right? So, here are the questions. Does the state of your life internally or externally fall short of what you imagined? Did you attain what you thought you wanted, only to discover that you still feel empty and unfulfilled? Do you have a sense of powerlessness or hopelessness? Do you lack the energy or motivation to pursue the things that used to matter to you? Do you feel there are no words to capture the ache in your heart? Do you find yourself crying often, or does it seem impossible to cry?

Mel Robbins 29:33 If somebody resonates-

Dr. Thema Bryant 29:35 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 29:36 ... with any of those questions-

Dr. Thema Bryant 29:38 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 29:39 ... what should they do?

Dr. Thema Bryant 29:40 Yes. So I wanna first say to anyone who connected with those, you've taken the first step, which is awareness, because I can't come home to myself if I don't realize I'm wandering.

Mel Robbins 29:55 Yeah.

Dr. Thema Bryant 29:55 Right? Sometimes, we don't realize it. You can... Time is passing and you don't know it.

Mel Robbins 29:59 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 30:00 So, the fact that in this moment as you're listening, you chose to tell yourself the truth, that is your mind, heart, body, spirit telling to you, "We're ready." Right? 'Cause when we don't feel ready, you know, we're, we're, um, distracting ourselves, we're busying ourselves, and then truth sto- shows up. So telling yourself the truth is the first step.And then, we think about both self-care and community care. And sometimes when we don't feel good about ourselves, uh, we neglect ourselves and we erase ourselves, and that, those can have cultural messages and gender messages and religious messages where people will say self-care is selfish.

Mel Robbins 30:49 Right.

Dr. Thema Bryant 30:50 You know? And so to say, uh, to myself, "I am not just a tool for other people's nourishing. I am not just a pathway for other people to get goodness in life, that I too am a living soul that is deserving of the goodness

Dr. Thema Bryant 31:12 that I want other people to experience." And so it is a sacred act to begin to care for ourselves, and the catch is when we talk about behavioral psychology, with behavioral psychology, you start to do the action even if you don't feel it yet.

Mel Robbins 31:31 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 31:31 Right?

Mel Robbins 31:31 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 31:32 So if I say, like, "I'm gonna wait till I have high self-esteem and then take good care of myself," like, it's not gonna work.

Mel Robbins 31:38 Right.

Dr. Thema Bryant 31:39 So I have to start doing it even when I don't feel it.

Mel Robbins 31:42 Yes.

Dr. Thema Bryant 31:43 Right?

Mel Robbins 31:43 Yes. What do you... Like, I keep, the word that keeps coming to mind is purpose. So you hear a lot of people say, "I don't know what my purpose is. I d- I, I need to find a purpose." Is that a code word for "I am disconnected from myself"?

Dr. Thema Bryant 31:55 That is definitely a code word, and the name came back to me of the life coach I quoted. (laughs) So I just wanna give-

Mel Robbins 32:00 Sure.

Dr. Thema Bryant 32:01 ... Shannon Evette-

Mel Robbins 32:02 Okay.

Dr. Thema Bryant 32:02 ... is the one who-

Mel Robbins 32:03 Great.

Dr. Thema Bryant 32:03 ... who gave the quote I said earlier. But, uh, when people don't have a sense of their purpose, uh, that's, uh, an indication of disconnection. I also want to say when we are in unhealthy relationships and on toxic jobs, in order to survive those, you have to disconnect.

Mel Robbins 32:25 Hmm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 32:26 It's impossible to be at home with yourself and stay in relationship with someone who is dishonoring you perpetually.

Mel Robbins 32:34 Wow.

Dr. Thema Bryant 32:35 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 32:38 So for somebody that just had like...

Dr. Thema Bryant 32:41 Yes.

Mel Robbins 32:42 ... a wake-up call.

Dr. Thema Bryant 32:43 Mm-hmm. Then you can have compassion for yourself because people will judge you and say, like, "Why'd you stay so long?"

Mel Robbins 32:53 Right.

Dr. Thema Bryant 32:54 But you weren't connected to you. You had been disconnected from yourself, so you don't even feel the capacity to dream again, to imagine, to believe that better is possible for you, and that you are deserving of it and worthy of it.

Mel Robbins 33:10 I s- we see this both in relationships and jobs all the time.

Dr. Thema Bryant 33:13 All the time.

Mel Robbins 33:13 In fact, you have a whole chapter-

Dr. Thema Bryant 33:15 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 33:15 ... about how to handle a toxic work environment.

Dr. Thema Bryant 33:18 That's right.

Mel Robbins 33:19 So if somebody is listening

Mel Robbins 33:20 to this and they're on their way in-

Dr. Thema Bryant 33:22 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 33:23 ... to a job that is slowly just draining their soul-

Dr. Thema Bryant 33:27 Right.

Mel Robbins 33:27 ... the first step is to acknowledge it.

Dr. Thema Bryant 33:30 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 33:31 And to recognize that you're disconnected from yourself, and you already gave us the way that you would know.

Dr. Thema Bryant 33:36 Right.

Mel Robbins 33:37 Any area that you are unsettled in.

Dr. Thema Bryant 33:40 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 33:41 That does not feel cohesive.

Dr. Thema Bryant 33:43 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 33:44 That is where you're settling.

Dr. Thema Bryant 33:46 That's right.

Mel Robbins 33:46 That is a point of disconnection.

Dr. Thema Bryant 33:48 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 33:48 You talked to us about breathing.

Dr. Thema Bryant 33:50 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 33:51 Close your eyes, come back into your body.

Dr. Thema Bryant 33:53 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 33:54 You've talked also about self-care. What does that mean, self-care?

Dr. Thema Bryant 33:57 Right. Yeah. So self-care is nourishing every part of yourself. So there is the physical part.

Mel Robbins 34:05 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 34:05 Uh, so it is hard to heal and come home to yourself if you're living out of vending machines and drive-through windows.

Mel Robbins 34:13 Why?

Dr. Thema Bryant 34:14 Because your food affects your mood, and there's nothing life-giving in fake food. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 34:22 Yeah.

Dr. Thema Bryant 34:22 So, uh, to, as I w- I like to say, as your grandmother would say, like, uh, "Put some vegetables on that plate. Put some greens on that plate." Uh, so fruit and vegetables, I like to think of before I eat something, can I say, "I'm eating this because I love myself."

Mel Robbins 34:40 Hmm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 34:42 And some things I won't be able to put in my body because I actually want to live. And we have it flipped where we will call those things the treat. I am treating myself by giving myself something that's killing me. So to have to flip it, and of course in moderation 'cause when people hear that they're like, "Do you mean I can never have..." Right?

Mel Robbins 35:06 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 35:06 So and my, a- and drinking water instead of all the soda. Sleep is a big one. It is hard to come home to yourself when you're exhausted. You know? We are busy, busy, uh, and then all night people are, uh, on their phones or, you know, up and can't sleep. And I say if your idea, and, and hopefully this is okay to say. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 35:29 You can say whatever you want.

Dr. Thema Bryant 35:31 Okay. Yes. If your idea of relaxing before you go to sleep is watching three episodes of Law & Order, I would encourage you to think about why is trauma relaxing to me?

Mel Robbins 35:43 Oh.

Dr. Thema Bryant 35:46 That's what it is. I mean, it's h- harm, crime, violation, attacks, and that's what is gonna soothe me into my bedtime.

Mel Robbins 35:55 So what is the answer-

Dr. Thema Bryant 35:58 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 35:58 ... that a lot of people give you when they do go into therapy about-

Dr. Thema Bryant 36:02 Yes.

Mel Robbins 36:02 ... that connection?

Dr. Thema Bryant 36:04 Is that it's normal and familiar. Some of us grew up in high stress, so we think calmness is either fake or boring.

Mel Robbins 36:16 Wow.

Dr. Thema Bryant 36:17 Right? People mistake peace for boring. (laughs) And it's like, to come home to yourself, you have to lean into the discomfort 'cause it's, because it's gonna feel unfamiliar.I was working with a client, uh, an adult woman and her mom, and they had been disconnected, um, because the mother dealt with addiction and didn't raise her, but they are reconnected now and living together. And the adult daughter really wanted her mom to say she loves her, and the mo- mother, uh, just said, uh, to me, "That just seems fake." So she had not grown up with that, had not heard it. To her, it's like something people do on TV, and so I said to her, "If you mean it, it's not fake. It just feels like it 'cause you're not used to saying it."

Mel Robbins 37:16 Mm. It is amazing how many people-

Dr. Thema Bryant 37:22 Right.

Mel Robbins 37:22 ... don't tell the people that they love-

Dr. Thema Bryant 37:25 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 37:25 ... that they don't... that they love them.

Dr. Thema Bryant 37:28 Right.

Mel Robbins 37:28 And it hadn't occurred to me, it's because they never were told that themselves.

Dr. Thema Bryant 37:34 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 37:35 And that it might feel forced-

Dr. Thema Bryant 37:37 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 37:37 ... or not authentic.

Dr. Thema Bryant 37:39 Yes.

Mel Robbins 37:40 Whoa.

Dr. Thema Bryant 37:41 Yeah, and that's the importance of us learning the- each other's love languages because, you know, her response was the response of probably many of her generation, which was you had food on the table, or you have a roof over your head.

Mel Robbins 37:55 Yes, yes, what more do you want from me?

Dr. Thema Bryant 37:57 Right, what more?

Mel Robbins 37:58 What more? Um, I love also that Homecoming is not only therapy.

Dr. Thema Bryant 38:04 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 38:04 That there is a deeply spiritual aspect to this.

Dr. Thema Bryant 38:07 Yes.

Mel Robbins 38:07 So what is sort of the... how would you describe the difference between therapy-

Dr. Thema Bryant 38:13 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 38:14 ... and spirituality-

Dr. Thema Bryant 38:16 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 38:16 ... and the work

Mel Robbins 38:17 that you need to do in both areas?

Dr. Thema Bryant 38:19 That's right. So unfortunately, many people who are in the mental health field did not get trained to incorporate spirituality.

Mel Robbins 38:28 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 38:28 And so, uh, there's research that shows on average, mental health professionals endorse a lower level of spirituality or religiosity than the general public.

Mel Robbins 38:39 Really?

Dr. Thema Bryant 38:40 Yes.

Mel Robbins 38:41 Why do you think that is?

Dr. Thema Bryant 38:42 Well, I think, uh, a part of that can go with, uh, higher levels of education.

Mel Robbins 38:48 Huh.

Dr. Thema Bryant 38:49 That a lot of times, uh, people can disconnect a- as with education can feel like they need to prove everything.

Mel Robbins 38:58 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 38:58 And spirituality is beyond our proving or our being able to, um, to manipulate it, right? So it's like, it's- it's not concrete.

Mel Robbins 39:12 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 39:12 Right? And so that's... In the field of psychology, the actual, you know, the founders in the field were often people of faith, but then there was this move in the field where we wanted to prove we're a science.

Mel Robbins 39:24 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 39:25 So we- we're not... If we want to prove that we're a science, then we can't talk about anything people find spooky or soft or, (laughs) you know, in some other realm. And so, uh, then there has been a neglect from it from that area, and then I think the other part of it has been, um, the recognition that some people have been harmed in spiritual spaces.

Mel Robbins 39:48 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 39:49 So then some therapists will over-generalize and think that it is all harmful, as opposed to whenever you get people together, you're gonna have some good and some bad, some things that are healthy or unhealthy.

Mel Robbins 40:01 What is your definition of spirituality?

Dr. Thema Bryant 40:04 It is an awareness of the sacred beyond what we can see.

Mel Robbins 40:10 Ooh, I love that definition. And now that we're on this topic-

Dr. Thema Bryant 40:14 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 40:15 ... it occurs to me, how could you possibly heal-

Dr. Thema Bryant 40:19 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 40:20 ... without pulling faith-

Dr. Thema Bryant 40:21 Yes.

Mel Robbins 40:22 ... and a belief that something that you have not experienced-

Dr. Thema Bryant 40:26 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 40:26 ... is possible?

Dr. Thema Bryant 40:27 That's it, 100%. 'Cause I even say to be a therapist, social worker, life coach, any of these things, you have to have faith, and for people to show up, there has to be a faith that there can be more than what I have seen-

Mel Robbins 40:41 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 40:41 ... and what I have experienced. It's like when I'm counseling people who have only had unhealthy relationships, and I have to say, "Just because this one is better doesn't mean it's good." Right? If you are just used to bad treatment, if people, like, call you back, you're like, ah.

Mel Robbins 40:58 Yeah. (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 40:58 Right? They call me back. And it's like, that was nice, but there's more, right?

Mel Robbins 41:02 Yes.

Dr. Thema Bryant 41:02 There's more.

Mel Robbins 41:03 Yes. Yes. So we've kinda started stepping-

Dr. Thema Bryant 41:07 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 41:07 ... toward this awareness. How do you combine the spiritual practice-

Dr. Thema Bryant 41:14 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 41:15 ... and the belief in something that you may have never experienced or seen-

Dr. Thema Bryant 41:19 Right.

Mel Robbins 41:20 ... with the work to start to heal, or as you say, reparent yourself-

Dr. Thema Bryant 41:26 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 41:26 ... in the physical space?

Dr. Thema Bryant 41:28 That's right. So a part of it is what gives us the motivation to do the work because a lot of times, we're operating based on evidence, which is what we've seen.

Mel Robbins 41:39 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 41:39 So if I've only had bad experiences, my parents abandoned me, this person left me, this person mistreated me, if I believe that is all that exists, then the conclusion would be I am unworthy, right? That's the only possible, right, conclusion because, you know, this idea, this, you know, victim blaming, self-blaming of if I deserved better, I would have received better. And you will hear people blaming other people for being mistreated, you know? They'll say, "Oh, well, you must have allowed it." And so, uh, in order for me to come to a different conclusion that I am worthy of what I have not yet experienced, I have to have the belief of the more.

Mel Robbins 42:28 How the heck do you do that when-

Dr. Thema Bryant 42:29 Yes.

Mel Robbins 42:30 ... your whole life-

Dr. Thema Bryant 42:32 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 42:32 ... you have experienced-

Dr. Thema Bryant 42:34 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 42:35 ... either abuse or mistreatment or discrimination-

Dr. Thema Bryant 42:38 Yes.

Mel Robbins 42:38 ... or violence.

Dr. Thema Bryant 42:39 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 42:40 How do you, when you have evidence-

Dr. Thema Bryant 42:42 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 42:42 ... that does make you feel unworthy, because I'm sure you get these DMs and these emails-

Dr. Thema Bryant 42:48 Yes.

Mel Robbins 42:48 ... all day long, so do we-

Dr. Thema Bryant 42:50 Yeah. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 42:50 ... of people who so want to believe-

Dr. Thema Bryant 42:53 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 42:53 ... that they are worthy, that something is better, that they can change your life-

Dr. Thema Bryant 42:57 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 42:57 ... for the better. And you and I can sit where we are and go,

Mel Robbins 43:00 "Of course you can."

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:00 Right.

Mel Robbins 43:00 "I have just way... y- I have so much evidence that it's possible."

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:04 Yeah. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 43:04 "It's both spiritual-"

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:05 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 43:06 "... and I could argue the case."

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:08 Yes. Yes. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 43:09 But for somebody-

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:10 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 43:10 ... who is sitting in the disbelief-

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:13 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 43:14 ... how do you cross over-

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:15 Right.

Mel Robbins 43:16 ... to belief?

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:17 Yeah. So, it's a couple of levels. One of them is to get people to reflect on what do they believe all human beings deserve?

Mel Robbins 43:29 Well, I believe I'm a chicken.

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:31 Right.

Mel Robbins 43:31 And all I see are chickens.

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:32 Well-

Mel Robbins 43:32 And I believe I'm on the gro- You know what I'm saying?

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:34 Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Mel Robbins 43:34 Like, we go back to this. How do you possibly convince yourself-

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:37 Right.

Mel Robbins 43:38 ... that you could be an eagle if you've never seen one?

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:40 Yes. Yes. So, what we, uh, connect with is disrupting what we call the cognitive distortions. So, it's not just-

Mel Robbins 43:48 That's a big word.

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:49 Yes.

Mel Robbins 43:49 What is cognitive distortion?

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:51 So, your false thoughts. The lies.

Mel Robbins 43:53 Okay.

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:53 The lies you told yourself and the lies other people told you.

Mel Robbins 43:57 What if-

Dr. Thema Bryant 43:58 Well, let me give you an example-

Mel Robbins 43:59 Okay, please.

Dr. Thema Bryant 44:00 ... of the lies. So, uh, for people who were molested-

Mel Robbins 44:04 Yes.

Dr. Thema Bryant 44:04 ... they either were told directly or indirectly that that is their fault, right? That, um, it's 'cause they developed early or it's because they shouldn't have been over there, or whatever it is, that somehow that's on you. And so, we have to, uh, demonstrate that that is a lie. So, how do I demonstrate that that is a lie? Does every girl who develops breast early deserve to be molested?

Mel Robbins 44:38 Of course not.

Dr. Thema Bryant 44:41 So, you are not an exception to that rule.

Mel Robbins 44:46 Oh.

Dr. Thema Bryant 44:47 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 44:47 I see.

Dr. Thema Bryant 44:48 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 44:49 I can see another lie.

Dr. Thema Bryant 44:50 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 44:51 Because I'm a survivor-

Dr. Thema Bryant 44:53 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 44:53 ... of, uh, that kind of abuse.

Dr. Thema Bryant 44:56 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 44:57 It's the, "Shh."

Dr. Thema Bryant 44:58 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 44:59 "Don't tell anyone."

Dr. Thema Bryant 45:00 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 45:01 "Or you'll get in trouble."

Dr. Thema Bryant 45:02 Yeah. Yeah. And what I learned about that, uh, I say from my own journey, is I was taught that keeping quiet kept the peace, until I realized, whose peace is it keeping?

Mel Robbins 45:27 Oh. Oh.

Dr. Thema Bryant 45:28 Right? The offender's at peace, the people who don't want to deal with it at peace, and I, in this little body, am holding all of the war. So, I don't wanna hold it anymore.

Mel Robbins 45:41 Wow.

Dr. Thema Bryant 45:42 Yeah. You know, this is what we're taught. You're gonna upset things, you're gonna upset people, nobody wants to hear that. And, uh, yeah, there's no peace.

Mel Robbins 45:55 Whose peace are you keeping?

Dr. Thema Bryant 45:57 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 45:58 You're making it easy for everybody else-

Dr. Thema Bryant 46:00 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 46:01 ... as it's slowly-

Dr. Thema Bryant 46:02 Right.

Mel Robbins 46:02 ... destroying you.

Dr. Thema Bryant 46:04 Absolutely. And often, then, they're gone, uh, they're doing it to multiple people over the course of years, uh, bec- the silence gives freedom to, for it to continue.

Mel Robbins 46:14 How do you counsel people who, in the process of starting to come back home to themselves-

Dr. Thema Bryant 46:20 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 46:20 ... to learn to fly-

Dr. Thema Bryant 46:22 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 46:23 ... to stop holding the peace for other people around you, how do you counsel people to then go back into their life?

Dr. Thema Bryant 46:31 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 46:31 Like, you're, let's just say it's a relationship-

Dr. Thema Bryant 46:33 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 46:34 ... where you have somebody that you're dating-

Dr. Thema Bryant 46:38 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 46:39 ... or in relationship with.

Dr. Thema Bryant 46:41 Yep.

Mel Robbins 46:41 And there's alcohol or drugs.

Dr. Thema Bryant 46:45 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 46:45 You've had the conversation, you've gone around and around and around.

Dr. Thema Bryant 46:49 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 46:50 And you're the one that's not saying anything.

Dr. Thema Bryant 46:53 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 46:54 So, you're keeping the peace for them.

Dr. Thema Bryant 46:56 Right.

Mel Robbins 46:57 How do you handle, like, that sort of disruption in your life now that you're starting to... 'Cause it, it's scary.

Dr. Thema Bryant 47:05 Yes. It is.

Mel Robbins 47:06 The homecoming process can also be scary-

Dr. Thema Bryant 47:08 Yes.

Mel Robbins 47:08 ... 'cause you're gonna have to confront things.

Dr. Thema Bryant 47:10 And it's gonna require some losses, and some people are not gonna be happy with the new you. People like the silent you.

Mel Robbins 47:20 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 47:20 They like the compliant you. They like the doormat you. Who wouldn't like that, right? (laughs)

Mel Robbins 47:26 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 47:26 So, when you start getting some opinions and start getting your voice and not wanting to do some of the unhealthy things you've been doing, uh, not everyone is gonna celebrate. And that will be important for you to see, who wants me whole and who prefers me broken? And then, I will have to start making some adjustments. And there are a range of ways we can do it. So, like, uh, in the work chapter, we say there's one path for if I wanna stay on this job and how do I restore myself, and there's another path where I need to leave this job. And in relationship with people, whether romantic or otherwise, uh, some I will have to end, and some it will have to be different because I'm different, and, uh, there's, there can be a grieving there.

Mel Robbins 48:16 Wow. You know, in your new role-

Dr. Thema Bryant 48:20 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 48:21 ... you are, um, really wanting to bring access

Mel Robbins 48:28 to therapy, to mental health support, to the process of a homecoming for people-

Dr. Thema Bryant 48:34 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 48:34 ... um, to as many people as possible.

Dr. Thema Bryant 48:37 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 48:37 So, why is ther- what is therapy and why is it important?

Dr. Thema Bryant 48:41 Yeah. So, therapy is when you have a trained, licensed facilitator who understands how to journey with you from where you are back home to yourself-

Mel Robbins 48:58 Mm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 48:59 ... without judgment and with compassion, and without needing you to take care of them.

Mel Robbins 49:07 Oh. That last part-

Dr. Thema Bryant 49:09 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 49:09 ... was the big one.

Dr. Thema Bryant 49:10 That's the big one. That's why your friend is not the same thing. Your family member is not the same thing.

Mel Robbins 49:18 Wow.

Dr. Thema Bryant 49:19 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 49:20 I had always said objective and licensed.

Dr. Thema Bryant 49:23 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 49:24 But the fact that you just said-

Dr. Thema Bryant 49:26 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 49:27 ... you don't have to take care of them.

Dr. Thema Bryant 49:28 That's right.

Mel Robbins 49:30 Wow.

Dr. Thema Bryant 49:30 Yeah. That's the huge part, especially for those of us who have tendencies toward taking care of people, right?

Mel Robbins 49:38 Yeah.

Dr. Thema Bryant 49:38 So, then in your other relationships you'll say, "I don't wanna burden people," or, "I know they have a lot going on, so let me just pour into them." Well, this is the space where you don't have to give, you don't have to be on, you don't have to... You don't have to do that, you know? I tell my clients, "I'm good." (laughs)

Mel Robbins 49:57 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 49:57 "Like, I- I have spaces outside of here that are for me, so you don't have to worry. I- I have the capacity to hold it." And- and that's what we need.

Mel Robbins 50:06 And you also have the tools.

Dr. Thema Bryant 50:08 Yes.

Mel Robbins 50:08 To help us recognize-

Dr. Thema Bryant 50:10 Right.

Mel Robbins 50:10 ... and call ourselves out where we're being a chicken-

Dr. Thema Bryant 50:12 Right.

Mel Robbins 50:13 ... where we could be an eagle-

Dr. Thema Bryant 50:14 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 50:15 ... and how to take flight.

Dr. Thema Bryant 50:17 And- and I will say, um, it is so important to have the tools and the understanding, because people who don't will often bla- Let's say if you have a child who's depressed and their parents just call them lazy.

Mel Robbins 50:36 Yes.

Dr. Thema Bryant 50:36 Right? They don't understand what they're looking at. And so, that's a part of what's important as well, is perspective, uh, and insight into what I'm seeing.

Mel Robbins 50:48 If somebody in your life is struggling-

Dr. Thema Bryant 50:49 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 50:50 ... "I'm just gonna send my husband to therapy."

Dr. Thema Bryant 50:52 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 50:53 "I'm just gonna send my kid to therapy."

Dr. Thema Bryant 50:55 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 50:55 Does that work?

Dr. Thema Bryant 50:57 So, there is a benefit of individual and family.

Mel Robbins 51:01 Okay.

Dr. Thema Bryant 51:01 Right? Because I'll say, especially, uh, with children, what I saw when I first started was, people would drop off their child and I would spend, like, an hour building this kid up, and then they'd pick them up and in the parking lot they're cussing the kid out.

Mel Robbins 51:16 Oh.

Dr. Thema Bryant 51:16 It's like, this... Like, it d- They didn't even make it home, so (laughs) like, it- it's- what do we- what do we- are we just gonna do this every week? And so now I'm seeing, like, what the real dynamic is. So, you know, with couples, um, I will say there is a part of our work that is individual. Let's say if I'm working with a sexual trauma survivor. So there's a part that is that person's journey, but then there's a part for the couple to say, like, "What will the intimacy be like for us, given the history, and how do we support each other-

Mel Robbins 51:49 Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 51:50 ... and have patience with each other?" And I want to name, as we're talking about people, it's not only self-care, but community care.

Mel Robbins 51:57 Let's talk about that. What does that even mean?

Dr. Thema Bryant 51:58 Yeah. So, we heal in relationship to other people. There is something very liberating and healing in being known. Like, you reveal yourself and people still love you, right? That people still choose you. That people, uh, that you feel seen and heard and supported. Uh, there's emotional social support, which is like someone I can cry with-

Mel Robbins 52:25 Yeah.

Dr. Thema Bryant 52:25 ... someone I can share my good news with, someone who I can vent to. Uh, but then there's also instrumental social support. Are there people who can help me in concrete, practical ways? And it's important that we know which friend or family member is good at what, right? You may have a relative who's not touchy-feely, right?

Mel Robbins 52:43 (laughs)

Dr. Thema Bryant 52:43 They're not good with the tears, but they can help you find a job, right? (laughs) So, that's another type of support.

Mel Robbins 52:50 Yeah. For... I'm- I'm surprised and saddened by the number of people that will reach out when they hear you say that-

Dr. Thema Bryant 52:57 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 52:57 ... and say, "I have no one."

Dr. Thema Bryant 52:58 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 53:00 When you have somebody that you are working with-

Dr. Thema Bryant 53:03 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 53:03 ... who is telling themselves the story-

Dr. Thema Bryant 53:06 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 53:06 ... that I have no one-

Dr. Thema Bryant 53:07 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 53:08 ... what are the rituals or the tools or the tactics? 'Cause you give homework in this book.

Dr. Thema Bryant 53:13 Yes.

Mel Robbins 53:13 Every chapter has homework.

Dr. Thema Bryant 53:15 That's right.

Mel Robbins 53:15 I would imagine every counseling session-

Dr. Thema Bryant 53:17 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 53:17 ... that you do as a therapist-

Dr. Thema Bryant 53:19 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 53:19 ... has homework.

Dr. Thema Bryant 53:20 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 53:20 So what would the homework be if you're somebody who says, "I have no one"?

Dr. Thema Bryant 53:25 Then one of our goals will be to make friends, and at first, get their buy-in. "Can we say that that's a goal for you, is to make friends?" And so then we have to think about, where are we gonna get these friends? Sometimes it's brand new people. Um, so it may be you sign up for a cooking class, or you join a book club, or you join a political organization, or your yoga group. Uh, and then sometimes you have people, but you have kept it very surface.

Mel Robbins 53:55 Hmm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 53:56 So then I want to deepen my relationships. And the Surgeon General has been talking recently and issued the advisory about-

Mel Robbins 54:03 Yep.

Dr. Thema Bryant 54:03 ... loneliness.

Mel Robbins 54:03 Yep.

Dr. Thema Bryant 54:04 And what I like to tell people is, "Loneliness is nothing to be ashamed of." Some people, when they hear you say you're lonely, they just say, "You need to love yourself." And I like to say, "That's not the same thing."

Mel Robbins 54:18 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 54:18 You can love yourself and still desire a connection to other people. So, uh, that is not an automatic absence of self-love. And so then, uh, if I have a- acquaintances that are all very surface, then to deepen it, am I willing to go deeper? Because again, I could start to shift the tide when I talk about deeper things. Then other people will often meet me there.

Mel Robbins 54:46 Wow. And what about, you talked, we just touched on this, and I know so many people do not like what they do for a living.

Dr. Thema Bryant 54:54 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 54:54 And in the book, you write about having a job that was very toxic.

Dr. Thema Bryant 54:59 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 54:59 Can you describe what it felt like to walk into work and how you practice a homecoming-

Dr. Thema Bryant 55:05 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 55:05 ... when you're in a toxic environment?

Dr. Thema Bryant 55:07 Yes. Uh, it is so, uh, stressful in your body, in your mind, and that's even before you can do your work, right? Just the-

Mel Robbins 55:17 True.

Dr. Thema Bryant 55:18 ... social setting.

Mel Robbins 55:18 The Sunday scaries, the driving in, oh my gosh.

Dr. Thema Bryant 55:21 Oh, dreading it. It's, it's terrible, and so then of course, you can't flow in a spirit of excellence because you're, you know, battling all of these other dynamics. And so, I like to encourage people to create a morning ritual, so that you show up with your cup already full.

Mel Robbins 55:38 So, can you give us an example?

Dr. Thema Bryant 55:39 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 55:40 What does that mean?

Dr. Thema Bryant 55:40 Yes. So first of all, wake up before you have to get up.

Mel Robbins 55:44 Okay, what does that mean?

Dr. Thema Bryant 55:46 That means don't set your alarm for the time you have to jump out of bed and jump in the shower, 'cause now you've already started your day frantic.

Mel Robbins 55:52 Yes.

Dr. Thema Bryant 55:52 So now, I'm going into a toxic place already feeling anxious.

Mel Robbins 55:55 Okay.

Dr. Thema Bryant 55:56 So, you wanna wake up a little bit earlier, and then figure out what are the practices that would nourish me. For some people, that will be listening to music. I like to say, "In every season of your life, come up with your theme song."

Mel Robbins 56:10 Yep.

Dr. Thema Bryant 56:10 So, your theme song will get you in the right mindset. Uh, doing some stretching next to the bed, body movement, exercise. Some people go for early morning walk, so then they already feel settled and slowed down. Uh, meditation and or prayer. Uh, reading something, uh, inspirational can, and that can kind of create the mantra for your day.

Mel Robbins 56:34 Why does this matter? You know?

Dr. Thema Bryant 56:35 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 56:35 'Cause I, 'cause when somebody's like, "You have no idea. I have this abusive boss and these jerks that I work with."

Dr. Thema Bryant 56:42 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 56:42 "And I can't quit and I've got bills to pay. Don't sit here, Dr. Thema-"

Dr. Thema Bryant 56:46 Mm-hmm. Yes.

Mel Robbins 56:47 "... and tell me that I should f- I should freaking stretch."

Dr. Thema Bryant 56:50 Yes.

Mel Robbins 56:51 "Go for a walk? Are you crazy, woman?"

Dr. Thema Bryant 56:53 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 56:53 Like, why does this matter?

Dr. Thema Bryant 56:56 I want to introduce you to the part of you that is not an employee. You are more than your labor.

Mel Robbins 57:04 Oh.

Dr. Thema Bryant 57:06 Yeah. So, if we center our full session every week on your boss, then all you are is your boss' worker, and there is a you beyond your boss.

Mel Robbins 57:19 Wow. Is that true about being-

Dr. Thema Bryant 57:22 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 57:22 ... in a bad relationship-

Dr. Thema Bryant 57:23 Yes.

Mel Robbins 57:23 ... too?

Dr. Thema Bryant 57:24 Yeah. That, uh, they, they consume a lot of your energy and time.

Mel Robbins 57:30 Yeah.

Dr. Thema Bryant 57:30 But you were a person before you met them, and whether this continues or not, you're going to be a person, and we want to meet that person.

Mel Robbins 57:42 Hmm.

Dr. Thema Bryant 57:42 We want to nourish that person because there is more to you than what they see, and a part of what they're responding to is they see the vastness of you and don't like it.

Mel Robbins 57:58 You end every therapy session-

Dr. Thema Bryant 58:01 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 58:02 ... and every chapter of the book the same way, and you also end every episode of the Homecoming podcast-

Dr. Thema Bryant 58:11 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 58:11 ... the same way.

Dr. Thema Bryant 58:12 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 58:13 So, I would love to have you, to invite you-

Dr. Thema Bryant 58:17 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 58:17 ... to end our conversation with it.

Dr. Thema Bryant 58:20 Beautiful. I invite your soul to tell your heart, mind, body, and spirit, welcome home.

Mel Robbins 58:33 Hmm. Dr. Thema Bryant.

Dr. Thema Bryant 58:38 Wow.

Mel Robbins 58:38 You are a gift from God to all of us.

Dr. Thema Bryant 58:40 Mm-hmm. Oh, thank you so much, and I want each of you who are listening to know you're worthy of the journey home.

Mel Robbins 58:48 Hmm. Dr. Thema, that is such a beautiful vision, helping all of us to be the light posts along the way to get each other home. If I really stop and think about it, one of the reasons why I always end my episodes with the same sentiment every single time is because I'm trying to help you return home to yourself. That's why I always remind you that I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life and find your way back home to yourself. Oh, one more thing. (uplifting music) It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. (uplifting music) Hey, it's Mel. Thank you so much for being here. If you enjoyed that video, by God, please subscribe 'cause I don't want you to miss a thing. Thank you so much for being here. We've got so much amazing stuff coming. Thank you so much for sending this stuff to your friends and your family. I love you. We create these videos for you, so make sure you subscribe. Mwah.