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6 Signs You’re Disconnected From Your Power and How to Get It Back | The Mel Robbins Podcast

Ready to level up? 🚀 https://bit.ly/takecontrol2023 👈 Sign up for my FREE 3-part science-backed training, Take Control with Mel Robbins! It’s designed specifically to help you step back into excellence, take ACTION, and create the life you deserve 🌟 — If you feel that something’s missing from your life but have no idea exactly what’s missing or where to begin looking for it, today’s episode will help you reconnect with your power and find greater meaning in your life. Dr. Thema Bryant (@themabryant is the current president of the American Psychological Association. She trained at both Duke and Harvard, published multiple best-selling books, and has dedicated decades of her life to researching how we connect with each other by first connecting back to ourselves. Dr. Thema is a national treasure. Her presence and her voice will put you at ease. And she has the unique gift of weaving together psychological strategies for healing with the deeper spiritual cornerstones of faith and trusting in "that which cannot be explained." In this episode, we dive into: -6 signs that you are disconnected from yourself -what it means to be "psychologically wandering" -how to handle people in your life who are chronically irritable and angry -the surprising signs of "irritable depression" -the three words to say to yourself before you can begin healing -why self-care is critical if you are in a toxic workplace (you are more than your labor) -why you need to stop talking about your significant other and your boss in therapy. -where to find therapy when you can’t afford it. You are so much more than a highway for other people to get where they’re going. With Dr. Thema’s wisdom and tactics, you’ll reconnect with yourself and take the wheel on your own incredible journey in life. Xo Mel In this episode, you'll learn: 00:00 Intro 03:49 I got really emotional when I acknowledged how my life used to be 08:12 The West African fable that should be required reading for everyone 11:26 Even if you’ve never felt it; you can learn to be home with yourself 13:42 This is the first and most powerful step to your “homecoming” 16:58 6 powerful signs that you are disconnected from yourself and what that means 18:22 Do people with an attitude actually have depression? 21:39 What is healing, anyway? 23:19 How do we handle people in our lives who are irritable, frustrated, and angry? 26:57 It’s a big mistake if you wait for this before you start your own healing 31:12 How do you heal from a lifetime of messaging that you’re not worthy? 33:20 This is how you handle working in a toxic work environment 38:17 How to know if you need therapy or you need spirituality 43:00 Even if you’ve never felt it; you can learn to feel worthy 48:28 Look to these resources if you can’t afford therapy. — Follow Mel: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/ TikTok: http://tiktok.com/@melrobbins Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melrobbins Website: http://melrobbins.com​ — Sign up for Mel’s newsletter: https://melrob.co/sign-up-newsletter A note from Mel to you, twice a week, sharing simple, practical ways to build the life you want. — Subscribe to Mel’s channel here: https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins​?sub_confirmation=1 — Listen to The Mel Robbins Podcast 🎧 New episodes drop every Monday & Thursday! https://melrob.co/spotify https://melrob.co/applepodcasts https://melrob.co/amazonmusic — Looking for Mel’s books on Amazon? Find them here: The Let Them Theory: https://amzn.to/3IQ21Oe The Let Them Theory Audiobook: https://amzn.to/413SObp The High 5 Habit: https://amzn.to/3fMvfPQ The 5 Second Rule: https://amzn.to/4l54fah

Mel RobbinshostDr. Thema Bryantguest
May 25, 20231h 0mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 3:49

    Intro

    1. MR

      Today, it is gonna be one hell of a profound conversation. I just feel it in my bones because I'm going to introduce you to this woman named Dr. Thema Bryant. Our conversation today is gonna help you connect with the truth of who you are. Even if you've never truly met the most powerful version of yourself, she says, "You can always come back home to yourself." Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so glad that you tuned in to the podcast today. I'm actually out in Los Angeles for our daughter's college graduation, and while I was out here, I reached out to a woman that I have just... I, I don't even know how to describe the level of respect and awe. I've never met her before. You're gonna meet her the same moment that I meet her, and I just know that today, it is gonna be one hell of a profound conversation. I just feel it in my bones because I'm going to introduce you to this woman named Dr. Thema Bryant. Now, Dr. Thema wears so many hats, and the one thing that is the through line in her work is that people around the world who are seeking deeper connection and meaning in life trust her. They turn to her for guidance. She is a psychologist, a minister, a tenured professor at Pepperdine University. She's a New York Times best-selling author, and in 2023, she was named the very first Black female president of the American Psychological Association. Dr. Bryant completed her doctorate in clinical psychology at Duke University and her postdoctoral training at Harvard Medical School Center's Victims of Violence Program. Our conversation today will lead you on a journey back to who you really are, so that you can own your full identity and fly. Dr. Thema Bryant is gonna help you connect with the truth of who you are. Even if you've never truly met the most powerful version of yourself, she says, "You can always come back home to yourself." Dr. Thema Bryant's brand new book, Homecoming: Overcome Fear and Trauma to Reclaim Your Whole Authentic Self-

    2. TB

      Yeah.

    3. MR

      ... it is a must-read.

    4. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    5. MR

      Dr. Thema, I am so thrilled that you are here.

    6. TB

      I am thrilled to be here. I love you, I love your work, and I love getting the word out about the journey home, because we need it.

    7. MR

      Oh, do we ever. You know, I was... I'm, I'm pretty emotional today-

    8. TB

      Yeah.

    9. MR

      ... because I'm here in Los Angeles because our, uh, one of our daughters is graduating from college-

    10. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    11. MR

      ... in a couple of days, and I am going, after our interview, to hear her do her final senior performance.

    12. TB

      Ah, beautiful.

    13. MR

      And it's a full-circle moment 'cause I'm going to the theater where she got her invitation to audition-

    14. TB

      Wow.

    15. MR

      ... to even be admitted into the program.

    16. TB

      Wow.

    17. MR

      And I've been calling it a full-circle moment.

    18. TB

      Mm.

    19. MR

      But what I realize is, it's a homecoming.

    20. TB

      It is.

    21. MR

      And I guess-

    22. TB

      Mm.

    23. MR

      ... that's where I wanna start.

    24. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    25. MR

      Because it makes me emotional to think about this because I lived for so long feeling what you would call psychologically homeless.

    26. TB

      Yes.

    27. MR

      Disconnected from my true self.

    28. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    29. MR

      And the feeling

  2. 3:49 – 8:12

    I got really emotional when I acknowledged how my life used to be

    1. MR

      that you have when you finally feel whole, it is unlike anything I've ever experienced.

    2. TB

      Yes. And I appreciate the honesty and the transparency because we do get disconnected. You know, life disconnects us, and, you know, if you don't mind saying how could you tell you were disconnected, or what was it like when you were psychologically wandering?

    3. MR

      It felt like there was the physical me-

    4. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    5. MR

      ... walking around in my life, doing the things that we all do, getting up, going to work-

    6. TB

      Mm.

    7. MR

      ... taking care of the kids, calling friends, watching TV-

    8. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    9. MR

      ... but there was a part of me that was separate, that felt, um, I guess you could call it like a knowing.

    10. TB

      Mm.

    11. MR

      I, I wonder if even that critical voice that we listen to is also almost like grinding at you because you're not really on a path where you feel like you are truly... I mean, and sometimes I think back, I think, I, I didn't even feel like I was alive for crying out loud.

    12. TB

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    13. MR

      Just on autopilot.

    14. TB

      Yeah.

    15. MR

      Just feeling no spiritual center.

    16. TB

      Yeah.

    17. MR

      No connection to values. Just existing.

    18. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    19. MR

      And so I guess it would be, for me, this feeling of separateness.

    20. TB

      Mm. Yeah. Separated from yourself and then separated from other people because you're surrounded by people but they don't really see. You know, you can fool a lot of people, including yourself, right? So a part of when I talk about homecoming is telling yourself the truth and then living based on that truth that you tell yourself.

    21. MR

      Mm.

    22. TB

      Right? Because I can lie to myself, that social script is, "I'm fine, I'm fine."

    23. MR

      (laughs)

    24. TB

      And, you know, I'm in a lot of faith-based communities and the term is like, "I'm blessed." Right? It's like, yeah, you can be blessed and also have a lot going on-... you know, blessed and lost. So, uh, that awakening, what I like to say, and I think I say it in the book, is can we get to the place where we can admit, "I miss myself"?

    25. MR

      Wow. Okay. I just wanna make sure-

    26. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    27. MR

      ... that you listening to us just got what Dr. Thema just said to you, "I miss myself."

    28. TB

      Yeah. Yeah.

    29. MR

      How does somebody who feels like they don't even know who they are-

    30. TB

      Mm-hmm.

  3. 8:12 – 11:26

    The West African fable that should be required reading for everyone

    1. TB

      he know the thing giraffe. If he see lion, he know the thing lion. So, this animal expert is walking one day, so, so, so, and he goes behind one farm. And he's passing the farm, and behind the farm, he sees so, so, so chickens. In the middle of the chickens is one eagle. Eh, hmm. He said, "What a eagle doing with these chickens?" He go to the front of the farm, and he say, "Bop, bop." You people say knock, knock?

    2. MR

      (laughs)

    3. TB

      The real sound, that's bop, bop. He say, "Bop, bop." The man inside say, "Who that?" The man outside say, "That me. You must open the door and see." So, he opens the door. He say, "What are your business here?" He say, "In the back of you farm, you got so, so, so chickens. But in the middle is one eagle." The farmer laughed. He said, "No, I only have chicken." The animal expert said, "I'll show you." They go to the back of the farm. He picks up the one he's calling an eagle. He puts it on his arm. He says, "Listen to me. You not chicken. Chickens can't fly. You can fly. Go ahead and fly." The eagle listened to him, but then he looked down at his chicken brothers and sisters eating their chicken food. He jumped down off the man's arm, and he go back with the chickens. The farmer starts laughing at the animal expert. The animal expert is vexed, eh. He said, "I coming to go." He storm away. The next day, he come back. He come so soon in the morning, God himself was not awake yet, eh. He come. He say, what? "Bop, bop." The man inside say, "Who that?" The man outside say, "That me. Open the door and see."

    4. MR

      (laughs)

    5. TB

      He opens the door. He takes him. He says, "What are you doing here?" He said, "I came here because you have one eagle." This time he took the eagle, and he climbed to the roof of the barn. They get to the top of the barn, and at that moment, the sun started to rise. Eh. The animal expert says to the eagle, "All your life people told you you were a chicken. They told you talk like chicken, act like chicken,-"

    6. MR

      (laughs)

    7. TB

      "... walk like chicken, but you're not a chicken. You're an eagle." "Hmm," the eagle said to himself, "I think if I don't try this thing, this man will come every day bothering me."

    8. MR

      (laughs)

    9. TB

      "Maybe today I will try it." So he spread his wings, and he started to fly. And I tell you, my eyes could never see him again. And that's the whole reason why you and I are here today, because there are those who are listening who have been treated like chickens, dating like chickens,-

    10. MR

      (laughs)

    11. TB

      ... picking jobs like chickens, but you're not a chicken. You're an eagle, so fly.

    12. MR

      Oh.

    13. TB

      (laughs)

    14. MR

      I just gotta do that right now. Oh, my gosh.

    15. TB

      Oh.

    16. MR

      That, that is why this book is required reading-

    17. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    18. MR

      ... for everyone. This is why you wrote the book.

    19. TB

      Yeah.

    20. MR

      In fact, I would love for you to read this part-

    21. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    22. MR

      ... right here up to there.

    23. TB

      Oh, sure. The eagle made it home. He made it to the truth of who he was. This is Homecoming. I wrote this book for all of you who, at different points in your life, have found

  4. 11:26 – 13:42

    Even if you’ve never felt it; you can learn to be home with yourself

    1. TB

      yourself living like someone you are not. You may have started acting different because of how you were treated or what other people told you about yourself or how you saw others acting. You have not felt comfortable or safe enough to truly be yourself or to feel at home in your identity. The recognized and unrecognized traumas of your past may have taught you to hide your gifts and voice in order to survive. This book facilitates your journey back to who you really are so you can own your full identity and fly.

    2. MR

      Beautiful.

    3. TB

      Thank you.

    4. MR

      Thank you.

    5. TB

      Mm. And it has been such a gift being able to get this out to people, because so many of us are hungry for more. Like you have the sense, this can't be it.

    6. MR

      Mm.

    7. TB

      Right? (laughs) Like this-

    8. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    9. TB

      This just can't be it, right? In whatever area of my life, and so, uh, to know that healing is work but we're worth it.

    10. MR

      Mm.

    11. TB

      Right?

    12. MR

      Yeah.

    13. TB

      And when we are not at home, we're paying a cost anyway. How much has it cost me to live some other woman's life? (breathes deeply) I don't wanna pay it anymore.

    14. MR

      Yeah.

    15. TB

      Yeah. Yeah.

    16. MR

      It cost you your life.

    17. TB

      Right. It cost me your life, absolutely.

    18. MR

      So let's walk through the process of homecoming.

    19. TB

      Okay. Yes.

    20. MR

      I'm an eagle in disguise-

    21. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    22. MR

      ... as a chicken.

    23. TB

      Right.

    24. MR

      I come in-

    25. TB

      Yeah.

    26. MR

      ... and I wanna begin this journey.

    27. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    28. MR

      And I have the honor of sitting down across from you-

    29. TB

      Yeah.

    30. MR

      ... Dr. Thema.

  5. 13:42 – 16:58

    This is the first and most powerful step to your “homecoming”

    1. TB

      and scattered, and we have been tricked, duped, hoodwinked into believing I can prove my worthiness with my busyness. And so people can come in, uh, you know, running a million miles and have believed themselves that, "If I'm so productive, I must be at home."

    2. MR

      Mm.

    3. TB

      But we often are not. And so I invite people to take a moment to tune into their breath, to inhale in through the nose (inhales) and exhale out through the mouth (exhales) and to begin to scan their bodies, noticing any place where you're holding tension, and sending breath throughout the body (inhales) giving yourself permission to breathe and release as we set intentions for self-compassion and for clarity. And that's how we begin. (inhales)

    4. MR

      I feel different.

    5. TB

      Yeah. Right? Tell me the different. (smacks lips) What did you notice?

    6. MR

      Um, I just noticed that my mind went quiet.

    7. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    8. MR

      And I dropped out of my head-

    9. TB

      Yeah.

    10. MR

      ... and into my body.

    11. TB

      That's it.

    12. MR

      And there was a slowing-

    13. TB

      Mm.

    14. MR

      ... that kinda went with this knowing-

    15. TB

      Right.

    16. MR

      ... that this feels better-

    17. TB

      Yeah.

    18. MR

      ... than the thoughts that are racing-

    19. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    20. MR

      ... or the things that are on my mind-

    21. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    22. MR

      ... or the sound that is distracting me, that it feels-

    23. TB

      Yeah.

    24. MR

      ... better.

    25. TB

      Yeah.

    26. MR

      What's it feel like for you?

    27. TB

      Right. It is the h- the homecoming, that I... And that's a part of the closing our eyes or lowering our gaze, is when we're, uh, open, we're open to all the stimulation around us.

    28. MR

      Mm.

    29. TB

      And especially if you're, uh, a, a trauma survivor, you are tuned into other people, right? So what are they thinking, what are they feeling, what do they need?

    30. MR

      It's dangerous to relax-

  6. 16:58 – 18:22

    6 powerful signs that you are disconnected from yourself and what that means

    1. MR

    2. TB

      So when we are in a place of feeling powerless, hopelessness, uh, despair, those are indicators that we have lost sight of our power and voice.

    3. MR

      Mm.

    4. TB

      'Cause the truth is, we do have capacity, voice, and agency, but we've been in environments where that wasn't welcomed or that wasn't responded to, and so then that can leave us feeling like we're empty.

    5. MR

      And there's a story you tell in the book-

    6. TB

      Yeah.

    7. MR

      ... about, um, being at a event where you're giving one of the bazillion keynote speeches (laughs) that you give-

    8. TB

      (laughs) Yeah.

    9. MR

      ... and a survivor-

    10. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    11. MR

      ... of sexual abuse comes up to you.

    12. TB

      Yeah.

    13. MR

      Can you share that story?

    14. TB

      Yes. So I was speaking at a conference, uh, on sexual assault, and I'm a sexual assault survivor. And I give the presentation, and when it's over, people are responding really well, and then I'm standing there in this line, which I know you are used to-

    15. MR

      (laughs)

    16. TB

      ... and there's a long line of people waiting to kinda share their, their response or their connection to what you said. And, uh, I see toward the back of the line, uh, this woman who we would say had a, had a bad attitude, right?

    17. MR

      Mm.

    18. TB

      But I know i- attitude is despair, but, uh-

    19. MR

      Hold on a second.

    20. TB

      Uh-huh.

    21. MR

      ... attitude is despair?

    22. TB

      Yeah. So a form of depression people often don't recognize is irritable depression,

  7. 18:22 – 21:39

    Do people with an attitude actually have depression?

    1. TB

      right? Yeah.

    2. MR

      Wow.

    3. TB

      And- and people don't respond to compassion, with compassion to women with a quote unquote bad attitude. But if we said, "When I see that woman, she's in despair," maybe then I would respond with compassion.

    4. MR

      Mm.

    5. TB

      But some of us, by family, by culture, by religion were taught that sadness is weakness, so we mask our sadness with anger, with bitterness, with attitude, right? But underneath it is the despair.

    6. MR

      It's so true.

    7. TB

      Yeah.

    8. MR

      It's like an iceberg, you see the anger on the top.

    9. TB

      Uh-huh.

    10. MR

      But there's something so much deeper going on.

    11. TB

      So much deeper underneath.

    12. MR

      Wow.

    13. TB

      Yeah.

    14. MR

      So you could pick up on the attitude and the energy.

    15. TB

      Mm-hmm. But I know there's the story there.

    16. MR

      Yeah.

    17. TB

      Right? Especially because when you know you haven't done anything, right? (laughs)

    18. MR

      Mm.

    19. TB

      So I am r- I am on, feeling on the receiving end of your upset, and I haven't done anything, so then I know there's a story.

    20. MR

      Yeah.

    21. TB

      So, you know, when it gets to be her place, uh, she's next in the line, and she says to me with the attitude, um, "So you're a survivor?" And I said, "Look, I just gave a whole keynote on it." (laughs) Right?

    22. MR

      (laughs)

    23. TB

      I say, "Yes." And she says, "Well, you don't look like any survivor I've ever known." So the doubting can be triggering as we think about not being believed.

    24. MR

      Mm.

    25. TB

      But then I go deeper than that, uh, and decide not to get defensive. Instead, I just let her question/statement hang in the air, and I just, uh, what I would say soften.

    26. MR

      Mm.

    27. TB

      Right? I soften and I just look at her, and it's like now she can see me. Like on the stage with my PowerPoint and my pantsuit, she couldn't s- she couldn't see me, right? She could only see the strength and the, uh, oratorical skills.

    28. MR

      Yeah.

    29. TB

      But now standing in front of her, kind of woman to woman, she could see, uh, the vulnerability.

    30. MR

      Mm.

  8. 21:39 – 23:19

    What is healing, anyway?

    1. TB

      it is the homecoming of being, ah, accepting and loving of myself. When I accept me, I have nothing to prove. There's a, uh, life coach here in- in Los Angeles, uh, mm, I'm gonna- I'm gonna come, I'm gonna give you her name later.

    2. MR

      (laughs)

    3. TB

      But she has a beautiful quote I love which is, uh, "I don't want to be driven, I want to be called." And this idea of like when you're driven, your trauma can drive you.

    4. MR

      Yeah.

    5. TB

      Like your insecurity can, you know, where you have to constantly prove yourself and it's this franticness, versus when I'm at home then I can be in flow with what is me. Yeah.

    6. MR

      Wow. Um, if you have somebody in your life who has that irritable depression-

    7. TB

      Yeah. Mm-hmm.

    8. MR

      ... how do you practice softening-

    9. TB

      Yes.

    10. MR

      ... and compassion? 'Cause oftentimes if you're around somebody who's constantly irritable-

    11. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    12. MR

      ... who is always angry about or frustrated with something-

    13. TB

      Yeah.

    14. MR

      I have several people that come to mind right now-

    15. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    16. MR

      ... in my own life.

    17. TB

      Yeah.

    18. MR

      What are some- some tools-

    19. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    20. MR

      ... that we can use-

    21. TB

      Right.

    22. MR

      ... to practice more compassion in those moments-

    23. TB

      Yeah.

    24. MR

      ... so that we lead with compassion rather-

    25. TB

      Yeah.

    26. MR

      ... than get so reactive?

    27. TB

      Right.

  9. 23:19 – 26:57

    How do we handle people in our lives who are irritable, frustrated, and angry?

    1. TB

      And I love that question because I think what we often get pulled into is being combative with them.

    2. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. TB

      And they're always gonna out-combat us. (laughs)

    4. MR

      (laughs)

    5. TB

      Because they're in warrior mode, right?

    6. MR

      Right.

    7. TB

      And so, uh, you know, when they come with the intensity, uh, then I respond to the softness, and I would say one of two ways. One is if I- if I can relate at all, I'll give my own experience, right? And that helps them not to feel judged, right?

    8. MR

      Yep.

    9. TB

      I'm not saying like calling you out 'cause I see what you're doing. It's just saying, "You know, there was a time where..." And whatever that story is. And often I- I have learned transparency is contagious.

    10. MR

      Mm.

    11. TB

      And sometimes then people say, "Oh, me too," right? (laughs)

    12. MR

      Right.

    13. TB

      And I'm like, "Yeah, you too." (laughs)

    14. MR

      Yeah. (laughs)

    15. TB

      "Yeah, you too." Uh, so the testimonial, or if I know anything that's been happening in their life...... to name that, to say, 'cause they're responding with all this intensity about distraction.

    16. MR

      Right.

    17. TB

      So then, I will say, um, "Well, I really wanted to check in 'cause I know this is such a busy time with you. You know, that you're moving, that you're this, that you're that." And for us to ask a deeper question, because the how are you gives us finding you.

    18. MR

      Yeah.

    19. TB

      Right? So break out of the script, and so instead, with everything you're holding, you know, what's been helping you to manage? Right? Or what do you need? Or how can I help?

    20. MR

      Yeah.

    21. TB

      Um, so I'm speaking to the unspoken.

    22. MR

      If you bring in the chicken and the eagle-

    23. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    24. MR

      ... can we use that, that fable to describe that moment where the survivor in the audience-

    25. TB

      Yeah.

    26. MR

      ... has this irritable, depressive moment with you?

    27. TB

      Right.

    28. MR

      What is happening for her in your opinion-

    29. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    30. MR

      ... as a psychologist?

  10. 26:57 – 31:12

    It’s a big mistake if you wait for this before you start your own healing

    1. TB

      'til you see what you did to me.

    2. MR

      Yes.

    3. TB

      Like, that could be years.

    4. MR

      It might be your whole lifetime.

    5. TB

      It may be your whole life, right? They have gone on with their lives, they don't care, they're not thinking about it, and so I wanna take my healing out of their hands.

    6. MR

      Mm. And give it back to yourself.

    7. TB

      Yeah.

    8. MR

      And so the process of coming home and the homecoming is the act of self-healing.

    9. TB

      Yes. Yes.

    10. MR

      It's about joining back in with yourself.

    11. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    12. MR

      You know, because we have such a huge international audience and therapy can be very expensive-

    13. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    14. MR

      ... I would love for you to, um, read these six questions that you often ask patients-

    15. TB

      Yeah.

    16. MR

      ... that can be a sign of what you call psychological homelessness.

    17. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    18. MR

      And so, I would also love for you, Dr. Thema, to talk about what is psychological homelessness?

    19. TB

      Yeah.

    20. MR

      I've never heard that phrase before-

    21. TB

      Yeah.

    22. MR

      ... but it makes so much sense.

    23. TB

      Mm-hmm. So, uh, psychological homelessness is this sense of wandering, being ungrounded, unrooted, confused, and we can spend years saying, "I don't know. I'm not sure." And even when I'm waiting for other people to give me the answer, then they're my compass, but I need a compass.

    24. MR

      Mm.

    25. TB

      'Cause that's what we talk about with therapy, is at some point, people need to internalize it, so it's not just every week, people coming and saying, "So Thema, what do you think?"

    26. MR

      Yeah.

    27. TB

      Right? They have to get to the point where, "I was having this conversation with my sister, and I realized I was doing this, and so I sh-" Well, there it is. Right now, you have become your compass, right? So, here are the questions. Does the state of your life internally or externally fall short of what you imagined? Did you attain what you thought you wanted, only to discover that you still feel empty and unfulfilled? Do you have a sense of powerlessness or hopelessness? Do you lack the energy or motivation to pursue the things that used to matter to you? Do you feel there are no words to capture the ache in your heart? Do you find yourself crying often, or does it seem impossible to cry?

    28. MR

      If somebody resonates-

    29. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    30. MR

      ... with any of those questions-

  11. 31:12 – 33:20

    How do you heal from a lifetime of messaging that you’re not worthy?

    1. TB

      that I want other people to experience." And so it is a sacred act to begin to care for ourselves, and the catch is when we talk about behavioral psychology, with behavioral psychology, you start to do the action even if you don't feel it yet.

    2. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. TB

      Right?

    4. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. TB

      So if I say, like, "I'm gonna wait till I have high self-esteem and then take good care of myself," like, it's not gonna work.

    6. MR

      Right.

    7. TB

      So I have to start doing it even when I don't feel it.

    8. MR

      Yes.

    9. TB

      Right?

    10. MR

      Yes. What do you... Like, I keep, the word that keeps coming to mind is purpose. So you hear a lot of people say, "I don't know what my purpose is. I d- I, I need to find a purpose." Is that a code word for "I am disconnected from myself"?

    11. TB

      That is definitely a code word, and the name came back to me of the life coach I quoted. (laughs) So I just wanna give-

    12. MR

      Sure.

    13. TB

      ... Shannon Evette-

    14. MR

      Okay.

    15. TB

      ... is the one who-

    16. MR

      Great.

    17. TB

      ... who gave the quote I said earlier. But, uh, when people don't have a sense of their purpose, uh, that's, uh, an indication of disconnection. I also want to say when we are in unhealthy relationships and on toxic jobs, in order to survive those, you have to disconnect.

    18. MR

      Hmm.

    19. TB

      It's impossible to be at home with yourself and stay in relationship with someone who is dishonoring you perpetually.

    20. MR

      Wow.

    21. TB

      Yeah.

    22. MR

      So for somebody that just had like...

    23. TB

      Yes.

    24. MR

      ... a wake-up call.

    25. TB

      Mm-hmm. Then you can have compassion for yourself because people will judge you and say, like, "Why'd you stay so long?"

    26. MR

      Right.

    27. TB

      But you weren't connected to you. You had been disconnected from yourself, so you don't even feel the capacity to dream again, to imagine, to believe that better is possible for you, and that you are deserving of it and worthy of it.

    28. MR

      I s- we see this both in relationships and jobs all the time.

    29. TB

      All the time.

    30. MR

      In fact, you have a whole chapter-

  12. 33:20 – 38:17

    This is how you handle working in a toxic work environment

    1. MR

      to this and they're on their way in-

    2. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    3. MR

      ... to a job that is slowly just draining their soul-

    4. TB

      Right.

    5. MR

      ... the first step is to acknowledge it.

    6. TB

      Yeah.

    7. MR

      And to recognize that you're disconnected from yourself, and you already gave us the way that you would know.

    8. TB

      Right.

    9. MR

      Any area that you are unsettled in.

    10. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    11. MR

      That does not feel cohesive.

    12. TB

      Yeah.

    13. MR

      That is where you're settling.

    14. TB

      That's right.

    15. MR

      That is a point of disconnection.

    16. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    17. MR

      You talked to us about breathing.

    18. TB

      Yeah.

    19. MR

      Close your eyes, come back into your body.

    20. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    21. MR

      You've talked also about self-care. What does that mean, self-care?

    22. TB

      Right. Yeah. So self-care is nourishing every part of yourself. So there is the physical part.

    23. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    24. TB

      Uh, so it is hard to heal and come home to yourself if you're living out of vending machines and drive-through windows.

    25. MR

      Why?

    26. TB

      Because your food affects your mood, and there's nothing life-giving in fake food. (laughs)

    27. MR

      Yeah.

    28. TB

      So, uh, to, as I w- I like to say, as your grandmother would say, like, uh, "Put some vegetables on that plate. Put some greens on that plate." Uh, so fruit and vegetables, I like to think of before I eat something, can I say, "I'm eating this because I love myself."

    29. MR

      Hmm.

    30. TB

      And some things I won't be able to put in my body because I actually want to live. And we have it flipped where we will call those things the treat. I am treating myself by giving myself something that's killing me. So to have to flip it, and of course in moderation 'cause when people hear that they're like, "Do you mean I can never have..." Right?

  13. 38:17 – 43:00

    How to know if you need therapy or you need spirituality

    1. MR

      that you need to do in both areas?

    2. TB

      That's right. So unfortunately, many people who are in the mental health field did not get trained to incorporate spirituality.

    3. MR

      Mm.

    4. TB

      And so, uh, there's research that shows on average, mental health professionals endorse a lower level of spirituality or religiosity than the general public.

    5. MR

      Really?

    6. TB

      Yes.

    7. MR

      Why do you think that is?

    8. TB

      Well, I think, uh, a part of that can go with, uh, higher levels of education.

    9. MR

      Huh.

    10. TB

      That a lot of times, uh, people can disconnect a- as with education can feel like they need to prove everything.

    11. MR

      Mm.

    12. TB

      And spirituality is beyond our proving or our being able to, um, to manipulate it, right? So it's like, it's- it's not concrete.

    13. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    14. TB

      Right? And so that's... In the field of psychology, the actual, you know, the founders in the field were often people of faith, but then there was this move in the field where we wanted to prove we're a science.

    15. MR

      Mm.

    16. TB

      So we- we're not... If we want to prove that we're a science, then we can't talk about anything people find spooky or soft or, (laughs) you know, in some other realm. And so, uh, then there has been a neglect from it from that area, and then I think the other part of it has been, um, the recognition that some people have been harmed in spiritual spaces.

    17. MR

      Mm.

    18. TB

      So then some therapists will over-generalize and think that it is all harmful, as opposed to whenever you get people together, you're gonna have some good and some bad, some things that are healthy or unhealthy.

    19. MR

      What is your definition of spirituality?

    20. TB

      It is an awareness of the sacred beyond what we can see.

    21. MR

      Ooh, I love that definition. And now that we're on this topic-

    22. TB

      Yeah.

    23. MR

      ... it occurs to me, how could you possibly heal-

    24. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    25. MR

      ... without pulling faith-

    26. TB

      Yes.

    27. MR

      ... and a belief that something that you have not experienced-

    28. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    29. MR

      ... is possible?

    30. TB

      That's it, 100%. 'Cause I even say to be a therapist, social worker, life coach, any of these things, you have to have faith, and for people to show up, there has to be a faith that there can be more than what I have seen-

  14. 43:00 – 48:28

    Even if you’ve never felt it; you can learn to feel worthy

    1. MR

      "Of course you can."

    2. TB

      Right.

    3. MR

      "I have just way... y- I have so much evidence that it's possible."

    4. TB

      Yeah. Yeah.

    5. MR

      "It's both spiritual-"

    6. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    7. MR

      "... and I could argue the case."

    8. TB

      Yes. Yes. (laughs)

    9. MR

      But for somebody-

    10. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    11. MR

      ... who is sitting in the disbelief-

    12. TB

      Yeah.

    13. MR

      ... how do you cross over-

    14. TB

      Right.

    15. MR

      ... to belief?

    16. TB

      Yeah. So, it's a couple of levels. One of them is to get people to reflect on what do they believe all human beings deserve?

    17. MR

      Well, I believe I'm a chicken.

    18. TB

      Right.

    19. MR

      And all I see are chickens.

    20. TB

      Well-

    21. MR

      And I believe I'm on the gro- You know what I'm saying?

    22. TB

      Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

    23. MR

      Like, we go back to this. How do you possibly convince yourself-

    24. TB

      Right.

    25. MR

      ... that you could be an eagle if you've never seen one?

    26. TB

      Yes. Yes. So, what we, uh, connect with is disrupting what we call the cognitive distortions. So, it's not just-

    27. MR

      That's a big word.

    28. TB

      Yes.

    29. MR

      What is cognitive distortion?

    30. TB

      So, your false thoughts. The lies.

  15. 48:28 – 1:00:26

    Look to these resources if you can’t afford therapy.

    1. MR

      to therapy, to mental health support, to the process of a homecoming for people-

    2. TB

      Yeah.

    3. MR

      ... um, to as many people as possible.

    4. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    5. MR

      So, why is ther- what is therapy and why is it important?

    6. TB

      Yeah. So, therapy is when you have a trained, licensed facilitator who understands how to journey with you from where you are back home to yourself-

    7. MR

      Mm.

    8. TB

      ... without judgment and with compassion, and without needing you to take care of them.

    9. MR

      Oh. That last part-

    10. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    11. MR

      ... was the big one.

    12. TB

      That's the big one. That's why your friend is not the same thing. Your family member is not the same thing.

    13. MR

      Wow.

    14. TB

      Yeah.

    15. MR

      I had always said objective and licensed.

    16. TB

      Mm-hmm.

    17. MR

      But the fact that you just said-

    18. TB

      Yeah.

    19. MR

      ... you don't have to take care of them.

    20. TB

      That's right.

    21. MR

      Wow.

    22. TB

      Yeah. That's the huge part, especially for those of us who have tendencies toward taking care of people, right?

    23. MR

      Yeah.

    24. TB

      So, then in your other relationships you'll say, "I don't wanna burden people," or, "I know they have a lot going on, so let me just pour into them." Well, this is the space where you don't have to give, you don't have to be on, you don't have to... You don't have to do that, you know? I tell my clients, "I'm good." (laughs)

    25. MR

      (laughs)

    26. TB

      "Like, I- I have spaces outside of here that are for me, so you don't have to worry. I- I have the capacity to hold it." And- and that's what we need.

    27. MR

      And you also have the tools.

    28. TB

      Yes.

    29. MR

      To help us recognize-

    30. TB

      Right.

Episode duration: 1:00:26

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