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A Masterclass on Dealing with Change: A 3-Step Process | The Mel Robbins Podcast

Order your copy of The Let Them Theory 👉 https://melrob.co/let-them-theory 👈 The #1 Best Selling Book of 2025 🔥 Discover how much power you truly have. It all begins with two simple words. Let Them. — In this episode, Harvard professor Dr. Luana Marques is going to teach you 3 simple steps to turn #anxiety into power. And she’s not fooling around; in the first few minutes, she even called me out. If you want to be more successful and effective in getting what you want out of your life or #career, learning how to master your #emotions, especially in difficult situations, is an essential skill. And Dr. Luana is a sought-after expert who will teach you how. If major life changes crush you with overwhelm and anxiety, this is for you. If stress and frustration are holding you back at work, you need her 3-step method. If your palms start to sweat just thinking about: - Downloading the dating app - Applying for a better job - Moving in with your significant other - Filing for divorce - Your kids leaving for college or to live on their own Not anymore. Dr. Luana Marques is a popular #Harvard professor here to teach you that change is not only a necessary part of life but an incredibly powerful part of creating the life you want. And even cooler, she is going through a MAJOR career change right now (and using her 3-step process to do it). Today you’ll learn to: - Stop running away from your feelings. - Silence your self-doubt. - Figure out what’s most important to you (so you can run toward it). - Jump into new situations using a powerful metaphor. And you’ll get a practical and simple 3-step framework to master any transition in your life. Grab your notebook, your pencil, and hit play. Xo Mel In this episode: 00:00 Intro 04:06 Why are transitions so damn hard? 09:44 What happens when ambition no longer serves you? 12:42 The exercise you need to find your values, according to research 14:53 What happens when success comes at a cost? 19:26 How values have shifted post-pandemic 24:07 Holding space for discomfort with your loved ones is essential. 26:50 Feel your feelings; it’s okay to not feel okay. 32:03 The one thing you need to add to your calendar today 39:36 Attach yourself to your why. 42:12 Dr. Luana’s 3-step method to overcoming any transition 49:41 Dr. Luana’s incredible work at Harvard 53:40 What Dr. Luana means when she says the world is "locked" 55:30 This is the bold move you need to take today. — Follow Mel: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/ TikTok: http://tiktok.com/@melrobbins Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melrobbins Website: http://melrobbins.com​ — Sign up for Mel’s newsletter: https://melrob.co/sign-up-newsletter A note from Mel to you, twice a week, sharing simple, practical ways to build the life you want. — Subscribe to Mel’s channel here: https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins​?sub_confirmation=1 — Listen to The Mel Robbins Podcast 🎧 New episodes drop every Monday & Thursday! https://melrob.co/spotify https://melrob.co/applepodcasts https://melrob.co/amazonmusic — Looking for Mel’s books on Amazon? Find them here: The Let Them Theory: https://amzn.to/3IQ21Oe The Let Them Theory Audiobook: https://amzn.to/413SObp The High 5 Habit: https://amzn.to/3fMvfPQ The 5 Second Rule: https://amzn.to/4l54fah

Mel RobbinshostDr. Luana Marquesguest
Jul 20, 202359mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 4:06

    Intro

    1. MR

      (ticking clock) (upbeat music) I am very triggered by her anxiety. Knowing that there will be a level of discomfort-

    2. LM

      Mm-hmm.

    3. MR

      ... makes me uncomfortable. How can I help her cope with this massive life transition?

    4. LM

      I think we need to help you cope with the transition because it's-

    5. MR

      (laughs)

    6. LM

      Do you know why?

    7. MR

      ... I'm avoiding-

    8. LM

      Yes! (laughs)

    9. MR

      ... you-

    10. LM

      You are.

    11. MR

      ... making me talk about something that makes me uncomfortable.

    12. LM

      You are, absolutely. You just wanted to run away from your emotions right now.

    13. MR

      Yes. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so glad that you are here with me, because guess what? We're gonna get a twofer. You know, two for one, meaning here's what's going to happen. I have this issue that is kind of coming down the pike, and it has to do with transitions. There's a huge, big life transition going on in our family. Our daughter's just graduated from college. She's about to come home. She is, as many of you know, a singer-songwriter, which means she does not have a job after college. She doesn't have a roommate after college. She's gonna be home for the summer working on new songs, and then she's gonna go back to LA. And I just feel tense. I feel this wave coming at me. You know when somebody that you love is about to go through something and you yourself brace because you're going to absorb their breakdown? Maybe you've felt that with a kid, or maybe you've felt that with somebody you're dating, or maybe you've felt that with a parent where you see... Like, a lot of you are writing in going, "My parents are getting old. Like, I feel this transition to a different chapter coming." Well, that's what I'm doing right now, and one of the, one of the benefits I'm realizing to launching this podcast is you and I have on speed dial some of the most amazing experts on the planet. And your friend Mel is not gonna put it past herself to reach out and ask for free advice for both of us, okay? So I'm willing to jump in the hot seat today and use my own train wreck as the, uh, kind of learning ground, but I'm gonna get a therapy session today from Dr. Luana Marquez. Remember her? She's the bestselling author of Bold Moves, and she did a wildly popular episode with us all about this habit that we have of avoidance. Avoiding things that are hard, avoiding all kinds of stuff in our life. You loved that episode, and so as I was sitting here this morning starting to get a stomach ache about the fact that our daughter's about to be home, and it's a huge transition, and that means I'm gonna experience that transition, I thought, "You know, Mel, instead of doing what you always do, which is you let the tidal wave of life knock your ass over, and then you dial 911 and have an emergency therapy session, why not be proactive? Why not use a incredible therapist as a way to think through something that is coming at you?" That's a good idea, right? So, I've got Dr. Luana back, and I am grateful that she is here for us, and by us, I mean me, because I need this (laughs) this help and support. And in particular, I want Dr. Luana to walk you and I through this three-step plan that's based on her recent clinical and scientific research that helps you make bold moves, and helps you move through transition, and helps you help other people move through transition without that tidal wave of life knocking you down. All right, Dr. Luana, welcome back to the Mel Robbins podcast.

    14. LM

      Thank you, Mel. I'm delighted to be here with you. I'm such a fan, and I just feel so excited.

    15. MR

      Well, I'm really excited about your new book, Bold Move, although I think you should have called it Bold Moves, 'cause once you read it, you feel like you wanna do a lot of bold moves.

    16. LM

      (laughs)

    17. MR

      And there's so much that I want to talk to you about given your experience as a clinical ps- clinical psychologist and as- and associate professor at Harvard,

  2. 4:06 – 9:44

    Why are transitions so damn hard?

    1. MR

      having an incredible practice in Boston. I just have so many questions to ask you. However, selfishly, I really want to talk to you about transitions.

    2. LM

      That's good to know.

    3. MR

      And we are in a moment of time when this episode's gonna come out where there's tons of people graduating, and that's a major transition, and I am personally bracing. Dr. Marquez, I'm- I'm bracing. Our daughter is graduating from college.

    4. LM

      Oh, my God.

    5. MR

      I can feel the panic attack happening. Graduation is in 10 days.

    6. LM

      Wow.

    7. MR

      Wow. She is then gonna leave California and come home for the summer. Wow. And she is an artist, a singer-songwriter, so there's no defined career path.

    8. LM

      Mm-hmm.

    9. MR

      And I know that the bottom is gonna drop out. Why are transitions so damn hard?

    10. LM

      Hmm. Well, I can f- I can feel the pain already for you, Mel.

    11. MR

      (laughs)

    12. LM

      Like, I can just, I can just feel, like, your whole voice change, and there's so many people in the same boat. In fact, the world is in transition since COVID. It's a major transition. This is how I think of a transition before we even talk about why it happens or, you know, why it's so hard is the way I see transition is somebody wants to go on a journey, okay? And there's this idea of this dream life, this thing that you want to do, um, and some are voluntary, some are not. Like, your daughter's finishing, it's a voluntary transition after college, and she has this whole life ahead of her, and so that's exciting. But then there is the old, right?

    13. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    14. LM

      And the old I see as the shore. And so in transitions, we are, like, holding on to the shore of what we know, the certainty of the things that we know-

    15. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    16. LM

      ... sort of worked. It's no longer working, by the way, because you want this dream life. And then the boat starts to leave, and you're holding on to shore (laughs) and you're holding on to the boat, and you start to just get stretched thin, and that's what we start to feel. It's that panic that you're talking about.

    17. MR

      Yeah.

    18. LM

      It's that anxiety. It's that uncertainty that happens, but we are so afraid of discomfort. We avoid discomfort so much that we just continue to hold on. And this is the first thing I want to say to everybody. Let go and start swimming. Let go and start swimming-

    19. MR

      Yeah.

    20. LM

      ... because there is no ticket to a perfect life, all right? That holding on is avoidance, and how many people have we heard that stay in a job they dislike, right? It's like holding on to certainty. I mean, I'm in the major of a transition in my life and in my career, and I'm as scared as you are. But, like, if I just hold on to Harvard because that's what makes me good enough-...then I'm never gonna get to explore the world.

    21. MR

      Wait a minute. What's the transition here in the middle of?

    22. LM

      Well, so, you know, for the past year and a half, I really hit a wall at Harvard and Mass General, and I love what I did in terms of research, but I, I felt like there's so much more that I could do to help so many more people. I wanted to have an impact in the global world in terms of mental health. I wanted to bring that down. And let's be honest, an academic paper is not gonna do it, right? It's just not. But I've been terrified to let go of this position, this academic self, to jump into this, like, public speaking, writing books, and I don't have a path for that. And so, like, when people ask me what I do now, it's like, "Well, I do a bunch of things." And, and, you know, eventually I'll talk about, like, the integration of it, but, like, it is scary in transition. It really is. The first thing we all have to talk about is there's fear there.

    23. MR

      For sure there's fear there. Well, I'm, of course, on the other side of the table from you, and I'm really excited 'cause I see a huge opportunity for you to make a massive impact by spending more of your time in the public realm, sharing your work, and helping and impacting millions of people's lives by writing books and doing whatever else you may do.

    24. LM

      Mm-hmm.

    25. MR

      But I want to go and talk about the fact that when you write about transitions-

    26. LM

      Mm-hmm.

    27. MR

      ...especially here in your new book, you talk about values, like what is the intersection of the transitions that we all have to go through in life, whether you're gonna move, or you're breaking up, or you're changing jobs, or you're thinking about your dreams, or college is ending.

    28. LM

      Mm-hmm.

    29. MR

      What is the intersection of values and transition, transitions?

    30. LM

      So values are so important, and yet most of the time when we talk about them, I feel like values are like a painting in somebody's house. You sort of know they are there, but you don't pay attention to them.

  3. 9:44 – 12:42

    What happens when ambition no longer serves you?

    1. LM

      how I would never go back to be poor again. But no longer ambition is working for me now. I'd lay in bed at night, and I had all the success in Harvard, and yet my brain was just not happy. I couldn't sleep. I put on 40 pounds. 40 pounds, right? And I kept saying to myself, "What if I just write another grant? What if I just write another paper?" You know, I, I don't have the right to feel the way I do with all the privilege I have.

    2. MR

      Yeah.

    3. LM

      And, and so ambition no longer was serving me, but I kept going at it, kept going at it. And one day, I'm sitting in my office writing a grant, and, um, half of my face went numb, just numb. And the first thought I had is one of this is anxiety. You're unhappy at work. You're writing a grant. This is just anxiety. Next thing you know, half of my body starts to tingling, and I'm terrified. And then the next thing I thought is, "Oh, my god. I'm having a stroke."

    4. MR

      Yeah.

    5. LM

      "I'm having a stroke." So I call the nurse, and, and meanwhile I'm like, "I'm an anxiety researcher. I treat anxiety. This is just anxiety." I'm the one saying to myself, but, like, half of my body is numb. And I just end up by the, the doctor. My husband, like, drives me. I'm crying, and at that point, I remember going to my primary care med- medic and saying to myself, "Oh, my god. I hit rock bottom." Like, "This is no longer working. I know what I'm doing is no longer working, but now I'm about to lose everything," right? I avoided for so long, and now I'm having a stroke, and what if I can't speak again? What if I... Like, everything in my life that I had worked so hard was right in front of me, and, and I just had this moment of like, holy shit. Like, holy shit. I've avoided for so long by following this value that no longer served me-

    6. MR

      Yeah.

    7. LM

      ...and just to avoid my transition. That's all I was doing. I was avoiding this transition. And so it turned out that I wasn't having a stroke, thank God, and they think it was a severe migraine. I've never had a migraine in my life. I don't, I don't know. The neurologist like... It was 48 hours of hell, of like trying to just look, and, and that's when I faced reality. Like, that moment was when I paused and was like, "I cannot avoid this transition anymore." I'm no longer actually living a value-driven life. I'm living an emotion-driven life and just trying to not feel uncomfortable, so I keep doing the things.

    8. MR

      Hmm.

    9. LM

      And you asked me an important question in the beginning, why this transition is so hard, right? Why does it hurt so much? It's because it creates so much discomfort, and in that moment, I was just avoiding it. I was just avoiding it, and I couldn't avoid it anymore. And, and I just hope, and the reason I share this with people is, I hope people wake up before they hit that wall because we hold onto the old so much to e- to not go towards our dreams, and I nearly killed myself in the process. And look at this, and, and think about how much skills I have, and I still avoided it.

    10. MR

      How do you figure out what your values are?

    11. LM

      So, one of the exercises I use with my patients

  4. 12:42 – 14:53

    The exercise you need to find your values, according to research

    1. LM

      that I used that day is to actually do the opposite of what anybody does, which is to lean towards the pain. And the days after that nearly stroke, I sat with myself crying early in the morning for many mornings, thinking, "Why does this hurt so much?"

    2. MR

      Hmm.

    3. LM

      "What about this hurts so much? What is it that is missing? Like, what is in my life missing?" And what I realized is pain only exist because behind that pain there is a value that's extremely important that's being violated. It's not that I didn't care about ambition anymore. It's that what I really cared about is I wanted to make a bigger impact in the world-

    4. MR

      Hmm.

    5. LM

      ... and I knew that the things I was doing were not aligned with impact. They may impact on the patients that I work, for sure, but I saw the world hurting. I saw the rise in anxiety from the CDC of 40% of Americans with clinical level of anxiety and depression. And here I was sitting in my little house, with all the skills that my grandmother gave me, that science gave me, and I wasn't doing anything with it. I wanted to create a podcast. I didn't have a podcast. I wanted to write a book. I hadn't written a book. I wanted to go out there and meet people like you, and I wasn't doing it. And when I leaned into that pain, I saw impact and I was like, "Wait a minute. I need to change my entire life. I need to change what I do." And so that's my recommendation. Lean towards the pain and ask yourself, "Why does this hurt?" Because somebody is an asshole to you, okay?

    6. MR

      Right. (laughs)

    7. LM

      They say something mean to you, you just think they're an asshole. But if somebody that you love very much says something like, "You hurt me tremendously," now it hurts you.

    8. MR

      Yeah.

    9. LM

      It hurts you because you probably care about that person, because you probably love that person. It's not just they said something mean. It's that it violated a core value.

    10. MR

      Wow. So are there... I'm trying to think about the example between kind of the transition that you're describing, which is one that I recently went through, like, probably over the last two years, of, again, achieved incredible success but at a cost. And

  5. 14:53 – 19:26

    What happens when success comes at a cost?

    1. MR

      I knew that there was something that I valued more than chasing more success.

    2. LM

      Mm-hmm.

    3. MR

      And it was about connection and impact and peace and family and simplicity and artistry. Like, it was about anot- and you can have more than one value, right?

    4. LM

      Mm-hmm. 100%, you can have more than one value. But, but slowly down for us now, if you don't mind, because, like, I just love what you're saying, but, like, how, how... L- last... Can you just tell me a little bit about the beginning of this transition and, like, chasing success and no longer feeling like success did it?

    5. MR

      Well, yeah, like, I, I, um, I think like a lot of people, somewhere along the line, I got the subliminal or subconscious message that achievement equals love.

    6. LM

      Yes.

    7. MR

      That if you're performing, if you're busy, if you are making a lot of money, if you're winning awards, if you're doing things that people talk about, that that means you're worthy-

    8. LM

      Yeah.

    9. MR

      ... of somebody's love and attention.

    10. LM

      Yes.

    11. MR

      And so having that be a really big motivator, like, you know, you say ambition. I would say if I went a level deeper, it would be love and self-worth.

    12. LM

      Yes.

    13. MR

      That was a value that I was trying to create in myself. Of course I wanted to make an impact. Of course I, you know, wanted to, to creatively express myself and connect with other people. But my work allowed me to do that, but there was still something that I was pushing up against.

    14. LM

      Yeah.

    15. MR

      Because what started to happen for me is that once I got to a level of success where I had paid off our debt, and I was actively saving money, and I could afford to do kind of whatever I wanted to do... I'm, like, I'm not talking Lamborghinis and that kind of crap-

    16. LM

      Mm-hmm.

    17. MR

      ... but, like, just had a really great lifestyle-

    18. LM

      (laughs)

    19. MR

      ... and was proud of myself, I wasn't happy.

    20. LM

      Yeah.

    21. MR

      And like you, I felt like an asshole. You didn't use that word, but I'll use that word with myself. I'm like, "What kind of an asshole are you? You're sitting here making an impact on millions of people's lives. You are able to stand on stages and share a message that changes people's lives. You are being flown first class all over the pla- you could afford to eat anywhere you want. What the fuck is wrong with you?"

    22. LM

      Yeah.

    23. MR

      And what was wrong with me is one of my core values, if I put it into the language of your work, was severely violated.

    24. LM

      Yeah.

    25. MR

      I was profoundly disconnected from my husband, profoundly disconnected from my kids and even my more extended family, 'cause I never saw anybody 'cause I was working. I had exactly two friends that I saw.

    26. LM

      Yeah.

    27. MR

      And so I was profoundly lonely.

    28. LM

      That's good.

    29. MR

      And I was never not working.

    30. LM

      (laughs) Yeah.

  6. 19:26 – 24:07

    How values have shifted post-pandemic

    1. MR

    2. LM

      Because the things... The values that worked before the pandemic no longer fit for most people, right? People now... We hear people talking about they want more flexibility in their job. They want to work from home. Why? Because they realized that family mattered, and it was being compromised by the way they worked and did their family time.

    3. MR

      Mm.

    4. LM

      Right? But most people, Mel, haven't had the privilege of what you have, of being able to pause and reflect, right? A lot of people are still in the treadmill of life. That's what I see in, in my office. People call me, and they're still trying to fit their old values to this post-pandemic life. It needs a realignment. And how do you find your values is your question. So I talked about pain. The other way to find values, which I think is what happened to you, is this. Lean into the moments that you feel your best, okay?

    5. MR

      Mm.

    6. LM

      What about the moment? What's so important, right? You talked about being with your family. The way you said, you know, "My three kids and my husband," you lightened up. I could just see you in your living room with them during the pandemic, and I could... If I went behind your brain, I could see just Mel being content, connected, and present-

    7. MR

      Yes.

    8. LM

      ... right? Versus Mel on the stage, who's impacting a bunch of people, but then you're in that plane and you're craving that connection, that real connection with family. And so in those moments of like flow, in those moments of quietness, ask yourself, "What matters in this moment? Why is this moment important to me? Why do I feel good?" And that... Our values are right there. Like I know this. I do dinner with my family every day, okay? And connection and family are two of the values for me that are super important. So much so that, you know, I came to see you, and I'm flying to Miami this week, and I'll be gone from my son for five days. My husband looked at me and said, "You know what? I think we should come with you because you need that connection before you're away from him."

    9. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    10. LM

      "It's not going to feel good to be away from him S- Sunday and Monday and then the rest of the week."

    11. MR

      Yeah.

    12. LM

      And so, pulled them out of school, they came with me, and this morning he says to me, "Can we stay an extra day? I really like it here." (laughs)

    13. MR

      (laughs)

    14. LM

      And just that made me feel so connected with him, right? And so those moments allow us to be connected.

    15. MR

      Let's talk about the transition that my daughter's going through. How can I help her cope with this massive life transition?

    16. LM

      So I think there's two things that you can do, Mel. The first one is I think we need to help you cope with the transition because it's-

    17. MR

      (laughs)

    18. LM

      (laughs) ... and sorry to say, but it's a transition for you too, right? It's a big transition for you, right? She's... It's ending. At, at times she's coming home, and I heard you say things like, "What's next for her," right? We all have expectations of other people in transition too. So I think first thing is just you pausing and asking yourself about your expectations of her transition.

    19. MR

      You are so good. Wow.

    20. LM

      (laughs)

    21. MR

      Um, here's how I feel about it. I am very triggered by her anxiety.

    22. LM

      (laughs)

    23. MR

      And so knowing that one of my kids is really uncomfortable makes me want to run and save her from it.

    24. LM

      W- What about her anxiety makes you feel uncomfortable? What are you saying to yourself that her anxiety makes you feel anxious?

    25. MR

      Um, that somebody that I'm... that I love is in pain.

    26. LM

      Mm-hmm.

    27. MR

      And I want to make it go away.

    28. LM

      But why?

    29. MR

      Uh... (laughs) I don't know. Um, 'cause it hurts my heart-

    30. LM

      Mm-hmm.

  7. 24:07 – 26:50

    Holding space for discomfort with your loved ones is essential.

    1. LM

      right? She's closing an end, and there's a natural grief that happens for everybody. You're letting go of the old.

    2. MR

      Yeah.

    3. LM

      And so she's going to come home with some level of discomfort. A lot of the kids coming home from college are going to have some level of discomfort. And I think the first thing that parents can do is allow the discomfort to exist a little bit. Maybe not going in to fix right away, all right? And if it gets thrown at you, like the way you're talking about, just pausing and calling it out. Saying, "Hey, listen. It looks like you're upset and you're throwing it at me, and this is not my transition."

    4. MR

      Yeah.

    5. LM

      Right? Holding space for them discomfort is the first thing a parent can do.

    6. MR

      Well, I think this is even bigger because if you think about it...Like if you have a spouse or a partner that gets fired from a job, you're going to have somebody that you love go through discomfort. If you have a friend who l- I have a friend who just lost their dad, and of course they're going through a period of discomfort.

    7. LM

      Yeah.

    8. MR

      And we just, or at least I just want to run towards it and try to fix it and make it go away, and I think you're right. It's that I, in my brain, associate these transitions in life and these moments of emotional processing and upheaval as bad.

    9. LM

      Yeah. And so you are trying to fix it. You know, I had a friend of mine just got fired from a job after 10 years, financial industry. She just woke up one day and got fired. So she texted me. I canceled everything and said, "Let's go for lunch." We're sitting at lunch, and the first thing she said to me is like, "You know, Luana, a week ago I was walking into work, and I just wanted my ID to not go through. I wanted them to have fired me already. I was so miserable, but I just, I just didn't want to quit. It pays the bills." And so, and I looked at her and I said, "We're best friends, and you never told me that level of discomfort." People are so ashamed of how they interpret discomfort they don't even share.

    10. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    11. LM

      And then she, I looked at her and I said, "How are you feeling?" She's like, "No, I'm okay. I'm okay." And I paused and I looked at her, let me call her Mary, and I said, "Mary, it's okay not to be okay." And for a week, Mel, when I called her, she's like, "It's okay." I said, "It is not okay. You just got fired, and you're the one that pays most of the bills in your house. If you're not feeling uncomfortable right now, something is wrong, and I want you to know it's okay not to be okay. It's okay to have discomfort right now."

    12. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    13. LM

      "And if you run from that, you're just gonna avoid the rest of your life." So the first step here in transition is to feel our feelings. Right? You-

    14. MR

      I don't want to feel my feelings. (laughs)

    15. LM

      Yeah. I know.

    16. MR

      That's like-

    17. LM

      I know.

    18. MR

      I want it to not feel that way.

    19. LM

      Yeah, but see, that's the only way

  8. 26:50 – 32:03

    Feel your feelings; it’s okay to not feel okay.

    1. LM

      to feel more uncomfortable is not feeling our feelings. So feelings are normal, biologically wired, and we have them. Our brain tells us when we're feeling uncomfortable, and then what we do, we run, we avoid, and then we feel more uncomfortable. And the only way of actually getting through your emotions is by feeling feelings. We've seen this on kids. Look at a five-year-old in a temper tantrum.

    2. MR

      Yep.

    3. LM

      Right? If you tell them, "Stop feeling this way, stop feeling this way," they escalate. They get so loud and obnoxious.

    4. MR

      It's true.

    5. LM

      If you sit next to a five-year-old and say, "Okay, so you're, yeah, you're feeling frustrated. What else are you feeling?" And my son will be like, "I don't want to tell my emotions right now." I said, "Okay, so you're feeling like you don't, you don't want to feel." And I just sit there and I wait. And guess what? His emotional brain cools off, his thinking brain comes back online, and it lasts three minutes instead of 20 minutes of a fight.

    6. MR

      Hmm. So what do I do? (laughs) Like she can't solve...

    7. LM

      Well, yeah, so I think, I think two things we got to do.

    8. MR

      Oh, that's right, we were talking about me, not her.

    9. LM

      Yeah.

    10. MR

      See how I wanted to shift this?

    11. LM

      Do you know why?

    12. MR

      I'm avoiding-

    13. LM

      Yes. (laughs)

    14. MR

      ... you.

    15. LM

      You are.

    16. MR

      Making me talk about something that makes me uncomfortable.

    17. LM

      You are, absolutely. I just, I just, you just wanted to run away from your emotions right now.

    18. MR

      Yes.

    19. LM

      Do you see how fast it happens, Mel?

    20. MR

      Yes.

    21. LM

      So, and we do this. That's like one of the tactics of avoidance, we just shift the conversation. It's much safer in your podcast to talk about your daughter and her transition, her anxiety, than to sit here with, "I'm having trouble feeling my feelings right now."

    22. MR

      Yeah. I'm, I'm absorbing her transition as my own.

    23. LM

      Yeah.

    24. MR

      Wow. So I just need to feel my feelings.

    25. LM

      Yeah. Well-

    26. MR

      And I need to not, uh, I need to avoid the urge to rush in and fix it, and I need to just hold space.

    27. LM

      Yeah.

    28. MR

      And let her and myself feel whatever we're gonna feel.

    29. LM

      And what do you feel right now? Can we just stay with that? What does it feel like right now?

    30. MR

      Um, I feel really sad for her.

  9. 32:03 – 39:36

    The one thing you need to add to your calendar today

    1. LM

      or family, or health, which is another one for me. I am not putting 40 pounds back on, and so I need to get to the gym. And if it's not there, I rearrange my day, because what science teaches us is that a value-driven life decreases stress, decreases depression, decreases anxiety, increases well-being. And so I bet your daughter, who is now singing the national anthem, kicking ass, can create this beautiful life one little action at a time.

    2. MR

      Well, here's the irony. The lack of structure is probably exactly what she needs.

    3. LM

      Correct.

    4. MR

      There's probably a kind of a... The container has been amazing for the stage that she's in.

    5. LM

      (laughs)

    6. MR

      And now, it's time for her to go and create what she needs to create.

    7. LM

      That's it. That's it.

    8. MR

      Wow, I just got so much out of that conversation, and I love the values as a way to anchor yourself through a transition.

    9. LM

      That's it.

    10. MR

      Wow.

    11. LM

      Because see, i- if you go through transitions and you don't have an anchor, right?

    12. MR

      Yeah.

    13. LM

      I love the word you used. That is a word I think about. You know, it's like the visual I share with patients is, you're in a boat. It's choppy waters, okay? And you're just going whatever the, the wind is blowing. In choppy waters, you've gotta drop an anchor and that anchor is your values. And now you decide, okay, now that I'm anchored, I know the values. Then you decide which way you're gonna sail in your life. But you have to have an anchor first so that you're not just blown everywhere, and your daughter is in an awesome position because it's clear to me she has the anchor. Now it's a matter of action, but values are the real anchors in life.

    14. MR

      I l- I think this is so helpful. We get so many people that are writing in right now about career transition, about... I have a number of female friends whose husbands are having these crises where they're looking back and going, "I didn't do what I thought I would do with my career, and I feel ashamed." And so using values and just anchoring yourself on it and helping it be a North Star for you is, okay, this is what I care about moving forward. What are the actions that show this? I wanna show you something.

    15. LM

      Okay.

    16. MR

      I can... Just stay right there.

    17. LM

      Okay.

    18. MR

      I'm gonna go get it.

    19. LM

      Okay.

    20. MR

      I think it's here. This is something. So when I had this huge transition, and we moved up here to Southern Vermont, and we did it because our son wanted a change. He did not want to go to high school in Boston.

    21. LM

      Mm-hmm.

    22. MR

      And it was in the middle of the world being turned upside down, and we were like, "Okay, we'll try it."

    23. LM

      Mm-hmm.

    24. MR

      And he changed overnight.

    25. LM

      Yeah.

    26. MR

      And so we decided to go all in.

    27. LM

      Mm-hmm.

    28. MR

      And I came here kicking and screaming.

    29. LM

      Yup.

    30. MR

      Anxiety attack after anxiety attack. There is no Target, no Walmart here. How am I going to live here? There are 3,000 people here. Are you kidding me? The nearest airport is an hour and a half. What the fuck are we do-

  10. 39:36 – 42:12

    Attach yourself to your why.

    1. MR

      And I wrote this as an act of desperation. I think Amy might have even been here that day. And just like, "I gotta put a beacon out. I gotta remind myself why." In the, in the storm of my mind, I have to be able to see on a fucking wall. I mean, this is a huge, like one of these big, sticky Post-It note things, if you're not watching this on YouTube with us and you're listening to us. And I took a Sharpie out, and I wrote this. And then I wrote, "Global impact through higher leveraged use of my time, entertaining and cha- impacting and changing lives." And then I wrote, "Have fucking fun. See friends every day." Hi, Jesse and Amy. I see my close friends-

    2. LM

      (laughs) .

    3. MR

      ... every day. "And travel for fun with family and friends, not just for work."

    4. LM

      Look at that. Look at that. It's-

    5. MR

      I fucking did it. Like, I, I literally wrote this shit down when the middle of a breakdown, and I've spent the last two years slowly, day by day, transforming this business and transforming my habits and my mindset to align with this thing that did not exist when I wrote it.

    6. LM

      That's it. See, you leaned against the pain, right? You were in the middle of tears, and what people wanna do when they in tears, they wanna avoid. You basically said, "Why?" And-

    7. MR

      I wanted gin and tonic. That's what I wanted when I was tearin'.

    8. LM

      Yeah, for sure. Why not? Let's numb it out.

    9. MR

      Yeah, I'd have when I was in the middle. Yes.

    10. LM

      Let's numb it out.

    11. MR

      That's right. I was avoiding it.

    12. LM

      Right. But Mamel, if you dra- if you create the life aligned with values, then you're in flow state all the time. Now, if you're gonna have this comfort anyhow, so I say to people, "If you're gonna have those tears anyhow, might as well use them." Why the fuck feel bad and not use that pain in a way that actually gets you unbind? And this, and you're proof of it, two years only.

    13. MR

      Oh, and then on the other side of this list, I have this, like, way to break down the fear because it was just all fear. I mean, this was all brand-new. I was reinventing everything. I was going through a major transition, like the rest of the world was too. And even though I had all these values written down on one side of this Post-It note, the fear was just overwhelming. And so I gave myself this little cheat sheet that I would notice the bitch inside me and the fear, and then I made myself this promise, and this aligns so much with your work, and we had not even met yet. It's two years ago. "Don't run."

    14. LM

      Yeah. It's incredible because what I see is what we've been talking about, this idea of

  11. 42:12 – 49:41

    Dr. Luana’s 3-step method to overcoming any transition

    1. LM

      you don't wanna feel your feelings, but we have to feel our feelings, right? You cried to write this, and then you said, "Approach. Don't run, just approach."Stay with it, right? But stay with it in a value-driven way.

    2. MR

      You have a three-step approach to transitions. Can you walk us through it?

    3. LM

      So in transitions, you need to shift, approach, and align. First, you're going to shift your perspective. Learn to talk to yourself as your best friend. And you were talking about it here, notice the bitch and the fear.

    4. MR

      (laughs)

    5. LM

      Right? I love it. That's shifting the way you're talking to yourself.

    6. MR

      Mm.

    7. LM

      Right? Second, you want to approach, don't run. In transitions, go towards discomfort. Really lean in on living a comfortable uncomfortable life. And three, align. Align values and actions, so in the middle of transition, lean into the pain, list your values, and then create action items. And that's what you did actually, Mel, because I see items in this list, they're values, and then you're talking about building your business based on those values. And then go do it. Then go do it. The transition is gonna be uncomfortable. There's no transition that doesn't have discomfort. But holding onto the old just keeps you stuck.

    8. MR

      Y- I am getting so much out of this conversation, both for my own transitions that will come, but more importantly, for where I am right now around supporting other people through transitions, because as I listen to you talk about the fact that you need to... It wasn't flip, what was it? Reese? No, what was the first one? Shift.

    9. LM

      Shift.

    10. MR

      Shift. You have to shift your perspective-

    11. LM

      Mm-hmm.

    12. MR

      ... and your focus. You have to then approach, which is leaning into the pain. That's where you're gonna find your values.

    13. LM

      Yeah.

    14. MR

      That's where you're gonna find the lessons, and then you align your actions with these new values that you identify through the pain of the transition, whether it's a breakup or graduation. And what I'm realizing is that the number of times that I have rushed in to try to save one of my kids from a hard period by fixing it all-

    15. LM

      Mm-hmm.

    16. MR

      "Oh, I'll give you the script. I'll do this. I'll, I'll call that person for you," I'm actually robbing them of what happens when you turn toward the thing that you're avoiding and the discomfort, and you approach it.

    17. LM

      Absolutely. That's-

    18. MR

      What-

    19. LM

      ... beautifully put.

    20. MR

      I mean, I just realized that if I try to make it okay for, let's just use the example of my daughter, stepping out of something she loved dearly for four years and stepping into the big unknown, if I don't give her the space to feel all of the discomfort, she actually needs that discomfort right now.

    21. LM

      Mm-hmm.

    22. MR

      She needs it to discover something within herself.

    23. LM

      Yes.

    24. MR

      And if I remove it, I am also removing something she needs from her life.

    25. LM

      That's it.

    26. MR

      Wow.

    27. LM

      Yeah. You're robbing her from the chance of living her best life because you're... And in fact, what we do is we prolong people's pain, because eventually it's gonna hit. Right? Eventually she has to go through the discomfort to find her values to live her most meaningful life. And-

    28. MR

      Wow.

    29. LM

      ... if you're gonna feel uncomfortable anyhow, might as well do it right away.

    30. MR

      Holy cow. I'm just sitting here going, "Boy, did I fuck up at times as a parent." (laughs)

  12. 49:41 – 53:40

    Dr. Luana’s incredible work at Harvard

    1. LM

      has the platform. They... In, in fact, I have a course with them coming out that is not about the skills that we're talking about, and... Well, no, it has some of the skills. I shouldn't say it's not. It's just the packaging is different. I got an email from somebody in France saying to me, "Listen, I want to do more of this. Is there a better certificate that I can get that'll allow me to do this?" And I bet the two of us together can get Harvard to do the certificate.

    2. MR

      I bet they could. And what we're talking about is having anybody be able to get certified in training other people in the skills of emotional regulation, in cognitive behavioral therapy, which is basically understanding how your thoughts link to your beliefs and then to your actions, learning how to put yourself in pause, and to, uh, shift, and then approach, and then align, and then integrate all of this into your life so that you can have a certificate in hand as a teacher, as a parole officer, as a youth advisor, as a minister, as a mom who's wanting to have this training when you go in and volunteer somewhere.

    3. LM

      That is exactly the world I've been dreaming to create, because a well-regulated adult can regulate kids. And we've been talking about the rising in mental health concerns in kids. We know... I have teachers call me, Mel, saying, "I ran out of the li- the classroom. I was so anxious, I just run out. I don't know how to regulate myself." How is that teacher going to be able to handle a kid who is a- anxious in the classroom? And there's skills that we can all learn and get ahead of this. So let's go do it together.

    4. MR

      I- I'm in. I have a friend who is in, um, education, and, um, she has said that she is startled by the number of parents that are now coming in in droves, complaining and just... Coming in in droves, complaining about normal children behavior, saying, "This is bullying, this is harassment. We need to get the lawyers involved." And it's their own anxiety.

    5. LM

      That's it. That's their own anxiety. You know, if... I look at parents in the playground now, and I got my five-year-old, and the kids start to bicker a little bit and parents step in. We are stopping kids from learning to regulate. Kids need to be able to push back against each other, and I'm not talking about, you know, hurting each other. You know, kids were able to do this before, and they become well-regulated adults. And now we have this generation of parents that want the school to manage their kids when they need to also manage their kids. You know, who is responsible?

    6. MR

      They need to manage themselves.

    7. LM

      Need to manage themselves, yeah. And when it comes to kids, I... You know, who is responsible for a kid's emotional health? Everyone. Everyone that touches that kid is responsible for their emotional health, because you have the ability to teach them a skill. The janitor in the school, the cafeteria lady, the teacher, the school bus, you and I. If we meet a kid, we should be able to teach them a little dosage of a skill.

    8. MR

      That's right. Kids cannot calm themselves down.

    9. LM

      No, th- their brain is not developed. Our brain's not fully developed until we're 30.

    10. MR

      Wow.

    11. LM

      They cannot do it. Their prefrontal cortex... They don't have brakes. Kids do not have brakes. They, they... When their emotions go up, the adults have to teach to regulate, and we are all responsible.

    12. MR

      It's true. When their emotions go up, we must hit the pause-

    13. LM

      Yes, we are respons-

    14. MR

      ... in ourselves-

    15. LM

      Yeah.

    16. MR

      ... and bring ourselves down.

    17. LM

      That's it, so that we can teach them how to pause.

    18. MR

      Wow. Um... I wanna ask you one more question before we just kind of knock out these advice questions. You said that the world went through this major transition, and you have had a clinical practice through it. How... What have you seen in the people that you're treating?

    19. LM

      So I've seen people feel more and more anxious, more and more uncomfortable, and people are having trouble accepting

  13. 53:40 – 55:30

    What Dr. Luana means when she says the world is "locked"

    1. LM

      that discomfort is not the problem. I've seen... Before the pandemic, I got patients to understand avoidance a lot faster. I think that the degree of anxiety is so high right now that even in therapy, I see their brains locking. And it's like I'm saying the same thing again and again in a different way, because the brain can't hear, right? When we are on fight, flight, and freeze, we can't... It's like our brain's out for lunch with friends (laughs) and we can't get in. And I've seen this in more and more people, locked. That's how I see. I see the world locked. And we're talking about transitions today, so it's really important. And I see everybody wanting to hold onto their selves pre-pandemic. But this used-

    2. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. LM

      ... to work before the pandemic. Why does it not work anymore? It doesn't. You're a different person, the world has changed, and you need to pause, look at your values before you can create the life you want.

    4. MR

      It's so true.It is a conflict of values.

    5. LM

      It is a conflict of values.

    6. MR

      That you have had something shift in your values in the last three years, and you have not hit the pause and done the work to align your life with this shift in values.

    7. LM

      Yeah, so you keep doing the same thing you did before. The outcome is not the same because you've shifted and the world's shifted, and you keep getting frustrated and you blame the anxiety. Anxiety's not the problem here, people, is that we are voiding our emotions and our transitions.

    8. MR

      Wow. So damn good.

    9. LM

      The only reason the question comes up and applies to you is because you are not comfortable in your own life, but we want to avoid transition. So we just like, we, we replace and throw into other people, when really it's like we are not doing well. Let's, like, we are the problem, not the friends that are moving. They're doing things that we sort of want to do, but it's a secret between ourselves and, and real life. That's the problem.

    10. MR

      That's the bold move.

    11. LM

      That's the bold move.

    12. MR

      Oh, you are so good.

    13. LM

      Oh, thank you.

    14. MR

      Thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing all of this wisdom

  14. 55:30 – 59:48

    This is the bold move you need to take today.

    1. MR

      with us.

    2. LM

      Thank you, Mel, and, and I want to particularly thank you for your vulnerability here. I pressed a little hard on the emotions. I know I made you uncomfortable, but staying with it I think will help people see that you can overcome and that by feeling feelings, we're actually in a better place to live our best life. So thank you.

    3. MR

      Well, thank you for pressing me, because I understand now what's actually going on underneath the surface, and I'm not concerned at all because of our conversation-

    4. LM

      Look at that.

    5. MR

      ... about our daughter coming home.

    6. LM

      Look at that.

    7. MR

      Yeah.

    8. LM

      And that's what we hope for everybody listening to us, right? Just think, and you could be concerned for weeks. You're talking about panic attacks, and now we just get to enjoy the national anthem, and I want to see the video of her singing.

    9. MR

      I will get you the video, but I literally had a major shift happen because I authentically, not paying lip service to this, I authentically see the discomfort as a really, really important thing for her to experience. And my job is to simply hold space and support her as she experiences it.

    10. LM

      That's it.

    11. MR

      Yeah.

    12. LM

      That's it.

    13. MR

      I mean, I look at my own transformation, white-knuckling through this massive life change over these past two years and how much I hated it, how much at one point I tried to get the house back that we sold. I, I mean, just-

    14. LM

      Holding onto it. (laughs)

    15. MR

      Oh, oh my God. And thank God I went through this.

    16. LM

      Yes.

    17. MR

      Thank God.

    18. LM

      Yeah. I feel the same way, Mel. I, I, you know, the mornings crying, trying to figure out what to do next, they were so important. I feel like my life integrated. Now I have this little girl who grew up in poor Brazil, a Harvard professor, accomplished author, who now can go and take on the world. And if I hadn't gone through that pain, I wouldn't be here.

    19. MR

      Well, thank God you did. (laughs) 'Cause we're all benefiting from it. Oh, look at how far we've come, everyone. You and me, look what we're doing. Let's lock arms and keep doing this life thing together, okay? I love Dr. Luana, and I love you. I really do. I want to make sure to tell you that I love you, I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to make these bold moves. I mean, you heard it right here. I've been crying. Dr. Luana's been crying, trying to figure it out. We're all crying and we're trying, and as long as you keep trying and making those bold moves, you now have, you now have the three-part framework in order to move through absolutely anything. All righty, I'll talk to you in a few days. (beep) Okay, let me clap. Sorry, that's not to startle you awake. Um, ha. (beep) You have a three-step approach to all transitions. Oh, I should ask, what is it? (laughs) (beep) All right, do you remember where we were? I don't remember. You were in the middle of saying something about... (beep) Oh my God. (laughs) (beep) Hold on a second. I think this is the traffic. Trash man. (beep) Is that Chris in the barn? Is he sanding? Can you hear Chris sawing? (beep) Here's our recycling. I don't know why they don't pick it up at the same time. (beep) This is why we're getting a soundproof studio in Boston. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. (laughs) This is the legal language. You know, what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. (instrumental music) Hey, it's Mel. Thank you so much for being here. If you enjoyed that video, by God, please subscribe 'cause I don't want you to miss a thing. Thank you so much for being here. We've got so much amazing stuff coming. Thank you so much for sending this stuff to your friends and your family. I love you. We create these videos for you, so make sure you subscribe. Mwah.

Episode duration: 59:48

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