Skip to content
The Mel Robbins PodcastThe Mel Robbins Podcast

Harvard Doctor Reveals Why You Have Cravings and How to Stop Them | The Mel Robbins Podcast

Order your copy of The Let Them Theory 👉 https://melrob.co/let-them-theory 👈 The #1 Best Selling Book of 2025 🔥 Discover how much power you truly have. It all begins with two simple words. Let Them. — Why do you always crave dessert after dinner? Or a snack mid-afternoon? Today we’re digging into the science of cravings: - Why you have them - How to tell the difference between a craving and actual hunger - How to eat your way to better health and a happier life. Dr. Amy Shah (@dr.confidentialwithdr.amys7371) is a double-board certified medical doctor with training from Cornell, Harvard, and Columbia Universities and an expert on intermittent fasting, hormones, and food cravings. In today’s episode, you will learn: - When to drink coffee in the morning so you stay energized all day - How cravings relate to dopamine and how to curb them so they never come back - Why your sugar cravings are so strong and how to stop them - The truth about probiotics and which ones your body needs right now - What ghrelin and leptin are and why they are the secrets to a healthy metabolism - The shocking research that compares antidepressants to food and exercise - How to stop overeating Our bodies are complicated, but your health doesn’t have to be. Let Dr. Amy empower you to live a more vibrant, fulfilled, and energized life. You will also learn: 00:00 Intro 03:31 So what’s the difference between hunger and cravings? 07:27 Many of our poor food choices are not our fault. 19:34 So how do we fix our eating habits if we’re not always in control? 22:39 Food and exercise are more effective than drugs for anxiety and depression?! 25:01 So what are some of the foods that will boost natural hormones? 29:58 Drinking enough water during the day makes you eat less. 39:22 Here’s what food companies know about dopamine. 41:31 Do this when you want to stop overeating. 45:45 Why does dopamine work better when you reward yourself at random times? 49:23 Here’s how your gut and your brain talk to each other and what that means. 51:48 What exactly is the relationship between food and bacteria? 58:55 The #1 probiotic that you should be adding to your days. 01:02:39 How the hell do you get rid of your sugar cravings? 1:10:55 Do you get enough sleep? Here’s why that matters. 1:14:36 Why you should wait 45 minutes before you drink your coffee. 1:18:04 This is what Dr. Amy thinks about intermittent fasting and how she does it. — Follow Mel: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/ TikTok: http://tiktok.com/@melrobbins Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melrobbins Website: http://melrobbins.com​ — Sign up for Mel’s newsletter: https://melrob.co/sign-up-newsletter A note from Mel to you, twice a week, sharing simple, practical ways to build the life you want. — Subscribe to Mel’s channel here: https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins​?sub_confirmation=1 — Listen to The Mel Robbins Podcast 🎧 New episodes drop every Monday & Thursday! https://melrob.co/spotify https://melrob.co/applepodcasts https://melrob.co/amazonmusic — Looking for Mel’s books on Amazon? Find them here: The Let Them Theory: https://amzn.to/3IQ21Oe The Let Them Theory Audiobook: https://amzn.to/413SObp The High 5 Habit: https://amzn.to/3fMvfPQ The 5 Second Rule: https://amzn.to/4l54fah

Mel RobbinshostDr. Amy Shahguest
Jun 22, 20231h 25mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 3:31

    Intro

    1. MR

      These are the bane of my existence. Oh, my God. Today, you and I are gonna get real about cravings, appetite, hunger, how to rein in the emotional eating. You're finished with dinner, you promise yourself you're not gonna eat something, and all of a sudden, boom, you gotta have ice cream. What is that about? Well, today, we're gonna dig deep into the science. You have been asking for Dr. Amy Shah to come on the show. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Okay, today, you and I are gonna get real about cravings, appetite, hunger, how to rein in the emotional eating. For me personally, I've got, um, a bag here. These potato chips, these are black truffle potato chips that I'm holding right now. These are the bane of my existence. Oh, my God. My kids have introduced me to these things. I have to tell you, I have this insane craving for black truffle potato chips every single day around 2:00 in the afternoon. Um, I can plow through an entire bag of these things. I don't even know if I'm hungry or not. I just all of a sudden, boom, 2:00 hits, I have to have a potato chip, and I don't know if you've ever been stuck in that cycle of yo-yo dieting or you're finished with dinner, you promise yourself you're not gonna eat something, and all of a sudden, boom, you gotta have ice cream. What is that about? Well, today we're gonna dig deep into the science. Dr. Amy Shah is a double board certified doctor. She received her training from Cornell, she did a residency at Harvard, and a fellowship at Columbia. She's an expert on intermittent fasting, food allergies, hormones, and you guessed it, hunger, cravings, appetite. In fact, you have been asking for Dr. Amy Shah to come on the show. Her latest book, I'm So F***ing Hungry: Why We Crave What We Crave and What to Do About It. Dr. Amy Shah is here to tell us what to do about it. Dr. Amy, it is such a pleasure to meet you.

    2. AS

      Ah, such a pleasure to be here and to meet you.

    3. MR

      One of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you, Dr. Amy, because there's a lot of noise on TikTok, there's a lot of noise on social media, there are a lot of "wellness experts" that got themselves in shape and they have a lot of important things to say, but you are a m- you're a licensed and trained nutritionist with Ivy League degrees and you're also a medical doctor, and you understand not just nutrition as a lifestyle, but you understand nutrition and the science of nutrition. And so, when I'm listening to somebody who's a wellness expert who has figured this out in their life, I listen to them differently than I listen to a medical doctor-

    4. AS

      Mm-hmm.

    5. MR

      ... who is figuring this out in her own life, who is also a nutritionist and understands it from the inside out. And so I'm thrilled that you're here, and I want to start with... So, thank you.

    6. AS

      Thank you.

    7. MR

      You're welcome. Um, I want to start with the difference between hunger and having an appetite and cravings, so we're all

  2. 3:31 – 7:27

    So what’s the difference between hunger and cravings?

    1. MR

      on the same page.

    2. AS

      Great question. Uh, the simplest way to think about it is when you're sitting at dinner and you had this amazing dinner, appetizer, drinks, you know, entrée, and you are full, you're ready, you're ready to go, and the waiter comes out and says, "Actually, you know what? We have these special desserts that we just made tonight, and they are out of this world," and everyone looks at each other and they're like, "Well, we're full, but we really want that dessert." That's cravings.

    3. MR

      Oh.

    4. AS

      That's not hunger. You're no longer hungry.

    5. MR

      Yeah.

    6. AS

      You're actually pretty full, extra full, right? But you're working on that cravings pathway, and that cravings pathway is super strong. It's the same cravings pathway that alcohol uses, drugs, sugar, um, so desserts, um, so cravings is a dopamine pathway.

    7. MR

      Huh.

    8. AS

      Whereas hunger is your natural need to get nutrients. Hunger, actually you can go for many days, even a month without food.

    9. MR

      A month?

    10. AS

      Yes. People fast for a month. Um, from (laughs) my background, um, my family is Jain, and they fast for long periods of time, and there is a fasting month where you actually eat nothing and just drink water. Uh, so our hunger signals are reminders to eat because your body does not want you to go a full month without remembering to eat. So ghrelin, you might have heard of this hunger hormone, it's released to remind us to eat. So the same time every day you get hungry, you get reminded to eat, and your ghrelin, um, comes and goes. So, some people just aren't hungry, you know, at- in the morning. Um, some people get very hungry at night no matter what they've eaten all day because of that ghrelin cycling. Um, so if you understand that it's a cycle, it's a reminder, you don't always have to take that reminder, but it's a reminder. So if you need food, um, you should get it, but...

    11. MR

      Huh. So what is appetite?

    12. AS

      Appetite is the overall, um, interest in food. Have you ever seen a dog when they're sick and they're just, like, not interested? Their appetite is dampened. It will dampen your cravings and your hunger pathways-

    13. MR

      Huh. Okay.

    14. AS

      ... to let you heal, right?

    15. MR

      So, hunger is like this- this need to eat...

    16. AS

      Yes.

    17. MR

      ... right? That is tied to the biological imperative to stay alive. Appetite is the desire for food.

    18. AS

      Mm-hmm.

    19. MR

      And we've all had those periods in our life where we've felt...... sick. I mean, my-

    20. AS

      Mm-hmm.

    21. MR

      ... my, uh, allergies are crazy right now and I'm not that hungry.

    22. AS

      Yes.

    23. MR

      Normally I would be ravenous right now.

    24. AS

      Yes.

    25. MR

      So my appetite is-

    26. AS

      Is dampened, yes.

    27. MR

      ... is the, is the correct word.

    28. AS

      Yes, yes.

    29. MR

      I don't have much of an appetite, and then cravings, this is one of the reasons why I love your book, I'm So F***ing Hungry so much, because I've learned so much that I didn't know. That you talk so much about our cravings and the eating patterns that we have that aren't healthy for us based on the brain, not based on emotion, not based on what's going on with what you just ate, but that actually there is a whole hormone cycle to this thing.

    30. AS

      Oh, it's so complicated. So there was a French philosopher in 1825, Jean-Claude Savarin, and he said, "Show me what you eat and I'll show you who you are." And even today, that stands true, right? Show me what you eat and I'll tell you who you are, because our lives are dictated through food. Uh, we have now food addictions, um, and some of it is not our fault. A lot of it is not our fault.

  3. 7:27 – 19:34

    Many of our poor food choices are not our fault.

    1. MR

      sort of habits of eating unhealthy things, the pulling up at the drive through and ordering the extra large fries and the burger on the way home from work, and then you feel like crap, and then you have a craving, and then you eat something else, and that it's not your fault.

    2. AS

      It's-

    3. MR

      How is it not your fault if you're the one putting the food in your mouth?

    4. AS

      Think about it. Um, have you ever been to Miami? I always talk about-

    5. MR

      Yes.

    6. AS

      ... the Miami phenomenon, okay? When you go to Miami, and the first time I went, I was in med school, and I saw all the flashing lights and the people and the music and the craziness, and I was like, "Oh my God," my dopamine receptors were firing.

    7. MR

      Yep.

    8. AS

      That's what happens the first time you eat a sugary food, like a ice cream or a McDonald's burger, you get a huge burst of dopamine. And then, on day three of being in Miami, all of a sudden, it doesn't seem loud, it doesn't seem as entertaining. You a- you need to turn the volume up, you need-

    9. MR

      Yeah.

    10. AS

      ... to go to the club now, because you're kind of used to it. You, you don't even feel excited or happy just from being out in the street, you actually need to turn up the volume. And so that's what's happening to us. We're having this Miami South Beach effect in our brains when we're eating all of this sweet food, these processed foods that they don't occur in nature. That dopamine explosion happening day after day after day, it lowers your... You know, you're not even as happy anymore. And so the problem is, you need more and more and more to get that same dopamine release. And guess what happens, Mel, on the other end?

    11. MR

      I don't know.

    12. AS

      Dopamine has this weird aftereffect, where it makes you irritable, it makes you uncomfortable, and it makes you crave that food so badly that you just wanna like almost make yourself f- not feel the pain anymore. And so dopamine has this effect on us that we'll eat it, we'll get the pleasure, but then there's like that pain aspect to it.

    13. MR

      Because you want it again.

    14. AS

      You want it again.

    15. MR

      There is something that you just said that really caught my attention. I've never heard anybody say this before. It's that you get the dopamine rush from eating things that are not available in nature.

    16. AS

      Yeah.

    17. MR

      Can you explain that?

    18. AS

      When you eat an apple-

    19. MR

      Yes.

    20. AS

      ... you get the sugar-

    21. MR

      Yeah.

    22. AS

      ... but you get water, electrolytes, you know, antioxidants-

    23. MR

      Yeah.

    24. AS

      ... and fiber-

    25. MR

      Yes.

    26. AS

      ... most importantly. That, um, h- is how sugar is made in nature. So if you see a fruit tree, um, your dopamine pathway, we think was made to help us survive and want to find that tree with the ripe fruit to keep us going, to keep us agitated enough to like try to look for more food, just to keep us surviving.

    27. MR

      Okay.

    28. AS

      Now, take it, you know, thousands of years later, we have ultra-processed foods, which I will define for you later, that don't have any fiber, that don't have any vitamins to tell the body that you've eaten something, and they pack the sugar in such a small amount of food that the explosion of dopamine you get is similar to a drug-

    29. MR

      Right.

    30. AS

      ... like cocaine.

  4. 19:34 – 22:39

    So how do we fix our eating habits if we’re not always in control?

    1. MR

      because your brain and your hormones are getting triggered by all this ultra-processed food.

    2. AS

      Yes.

    3. MR

      And the ultra-processed food, it sounds like, is food that also keeps you craving it.

    4. AS

      Yes.

    5. MR

      Because it's not occurring in the natural world and so your brain is like, "Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! Holy smokes! This Snickers bar is incredible! Oh my gosh!" You know? Uh, this, this baked whatever it is that I pulled out of a box and ripped out of a package and stuck into the air fryer, this is tantalizing because it's got all these chemicals in it.

    6. AS

      Yeah, it's the Miami Beach phenomenon, right? You get to South Beach and you're like, "Whoa! I want..." like your brain is like, "I feel good right now and I want that again." And then it's, "I want more of that again."

    7. MR

      Right.

    8. AS

      And the problem with our world is we're not educated about that.

    9. MR

      Right.

    10. AS

      I, as a physician, I said to myself, how many times was I rewarding myself with Starbucks and, you know, peppermint mochas and I would say to myself, "Oh, I, you know, I did a good job today so I'm going to get this sweet thing." And then it was every day, and then it was twice a day, and by the end of it, I had to recognize myself that this was happening to me. We need to talk about it more because if we can make ourselves happier, less irritable, less chasing things, we're going to be happier people. We c- we're gonna live longer. And so for me, this was like, okay, all these companies know about it and they're creating foods to trigger that pathway, why don't we know about it so we actually can be in control?

    11. MR

      Well, you know, when we hear food, you think calories.

    12. AS

      Yeah.

    13. MR

      You think, like, how many grams of fat, how many grams of sugar. I don't, I- I've never talked to anybody about the fact that there is this dopamine, serotonin, all of these hormones are impacted by it and it's also being driven by this kind of craving cycle in your brain.

    14. AS

      Yeah.

    15. MR

      And so what do we do if we're not responsible for this situation? How the hell do we fix it? Like where do we all begin?

    16. AS

      Yeah. It, you know, the thing is, first understand that food creates mood.

    17. MR

      Food creates mood.

    18. AS

      So we're always trying to find out ways to make ourselves happier-

    19. MR

      Right.

    20. AS

      ... think more clearly, be more satisfied, right?

    21. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    22. AS

      And so that's why I got so interested in this work because with my background in nutrition and being a doctor, I thought, well, if we can control our mood through food and the actions that we take on a daily basis, why aren't we talking about this? Why isn't this first line therapy? Um, there's really good research, uh, a new study from South Australia that the combination of diet and exercise-

    23. MR

      Yep.

    24. AS

      ... was 1.5 times more effective for

  5. 22:39 – 25:01

    Food and exercise are more effective than drugs for anxiety and depression?!

    1. AS

      depression than the leading medications.

    2. MR

      Now explain why, because that's a big research result, that just through food and exercise-

    3. AS

      Yeah.

    4. MR

      ... it's, was found to be one and a half times more effective than medication alone.

    5. AS

      And if you think about it, they actually even put therapy and medications, kind of the traditional treatment-

    6. MR

      Yeah.

    7. AS

      ... into one category.

    8. MR

      Okay.

    9. AS

      And they compared that with changing your diet, with changing your sleep, your exercise lifestyle habits.

    10. MR

      Okay.

    11. AS

      And they said we should be prescribing this as first line therapy for depression. There's an anxiety st- there are multiple anxiety studies. ADHD. I mean, we are missing the boat. Obviously we're not doing something right because depression is skyrocketing, so is anxiety, so is obesity, so is diabetes, so is cardiovascular disease. So the status quo is not working, so why not employ these techniques and put them at the forefront? So s- things like we talked about in- already and, that are in the book, are teaching you that we have control. That, yes, do all the things, but also change the way you eat, change the way you exercise, get more sunlight.

    12. MR

      Well, you might be depressed and anxious and struggling with a lot of stuff because of what you're eating.

    13. AS

      Yes.

    14. MR

      And because of your lifestyle right now. And so I think it's really great news to hear that you can feel better if you start to eat better and that this whole cycle that you are trapped in, in terms of the cravings that never end, and the cycle of emotional eating and feeling lethargic and feeling anxious, that you can, based on the research and based on the work that you do with patients around the world, that when you take your food intake seriously...You can profoundly change your mood, you can change your body, you can change your lifestyle, all of it, but it begins with the food. So, let's talk about the, you know, 'cause you say in the beginning of the book that you, there are certain types of food that you can eat to balance dopamine naturally. What are those foods?

  6. 25:01 – 29:58

    So what are some of the foods that will boost natural hormones?

    1. MR

    2. AS

      Yeah. So-

    3. MR

      (laughs)

    4. AS

      ... you want to be eating foods that are high in the amino acid, tyrosine. Tyrosine is the precursor for L-DOPA in the brain, and then L-DOPA gets converted to dopamine, so that's how we have dopamine. So, in the past, it was thought, "Well, you can't really do anything to boost the dopamine levels in your brain." Like, food has no connection. It's down here, the brain is up here-

    5. MR

      Right.

    6. AS

      ... so everyone used to say, "Well, it doesn't really matter, it's just about calories," you know. But now we know that eating more foods, doing more things, like getting sunlight, exercise, and certain foods that are high in tyrosine can help boost your dopamine.

    7. MR

      Wow. What are some of those foods?

    8. AS

      So, one of them is dairy foods. So, tyrosine is an amino acid, so high protein foods, so dairy, soy, nuts, cherries, um, are all things I re- I have a huge list of, because you might not like cherries, you might not like, you know, might not tolerate dairy-

    9. MR

      Right.

    10. AS

      ... but you could do soy and you could do-

    11. MR

      Yep.

    12. AS

      And so, um, you can eat these things, so what I would suggest is, say you're having a breakfast in the morning-

    13. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    14. AS

      You wanna boost dopamine. Dopamine is very closely related to epinephrine, norepinephrine and epinephrine, which is adrenaline. So, in the morning, you wanna feel awake, alert, and motivated, you wanna eat things with higher dopamine that are gonna boost your dopamine level.

    15. MR

      So, give me an example of what-

    16. AS

      So, I re-

    17. MR

      ... would be a great thing to eat for breakfast.

    18. AS

      So, I love cottage cheese.

    19. MR

      Okay.

    20. AS

      Okay. I know cottage cheese is controversial. You can do-

    21. MR

      Why is-

    22. AS

      ... yogurt instead.

    23. MR

      Who's mad at cottage cheese?

    24. AS

      Some people, I mean, c- cottage cheese is having a moment on social media.

    25. MR

      It is? Like, as in it's bad?

    26. AS

      Uh, no, people either love it or hate it.

    27. MR

      Okay.

    28. AS

      It's a divisive food because of the texture of it, and so I love it, but some people don't.

    29. MR

      People need better hobbies-

    30. AS

      (laughs)

  7. 29:58 – 39:22

    Drinking enough water during the day makes you eat less.

    1. AS

      when you're dehydrated-

    2. MR

      Yep.

    3. AS

      ... your body sends you thirst, but it also feels like hunger. And so, when you're adequately hydrating, you're able to kind of, um, feel fuller because you're not getting confused. And so, I think it's an easy, super easy thing anyone can do, is increase their water intake, and just watch, you're not going to be as hungry as you were before.

    4. MR

      So, if anytime I feel hungry, should I drink a cup of water?

    5. AS

      Yes.

    6. MR

      Or s- do I ask myself if I want vegetables? What's the trick?

    7. AS

      So, (laughs) both.

    8. MR

      Okay.

    9. AS

      So, when you're trying to navigate this, and you have, first of all, take out as many ultra-processed foods as you can-

    10. MR

      Okay, that's step one.

    11. AS

      ... t- step one. So, you-

    12. MR

      Did you hear Dr. Amy?

    13. AS

      (laughs)

    14. MR

      No ultra-processed food. If you can't-

    15. AS

      It's gonna be hard to do, no.

    16. MR

      Okay.

    17. AS

      But we'll say, instead of 60% for adults or 70% for kids, we would wanna go to 40 or 30%, right?

    18. MR

      Okay.

    19. AS

      So, it's the occasional ultra-processed food.That way you can actually hear the signals and you're not, like, getting drowned out by all these altered, um, signaling that's happening. And then you start to take note. You say, "Wow, every day around one o'clock is when..." That's for me, I'm giving my own example.

    20. MR

      (laughs)

    21. AS

      "After lunch is when I start to crave sweets even though I'm not hungry."

    22. MR

      Yep.

    23. AS

      And so I'll ask myself, and I'm in the office usually, and I'll ask myself, "Am I hungry or am I just wanting something sweet?"

    24. MR

      Okay.

    25. AS

      And that's the first question. And then I'll ask myself that vegetable test, like, "Should I eat," um, you know, would I want a bowl of vegetables right now? No. So then I say, "Let me just drink a glass of water, see how I feel in 15 minutes." So I get up, I drink a glass of water. I might have a sparkling water, I try to make it fun, you know, add some lemon or lime. And then ask yourself, like, "W- are you still hungry or craving or are you fine?" And that's a way to kind of get back with yourself. Right? We're always trying to be the most authentic version of ourselves and that goes with, what does my body want right now? What does it really want?

    26. MR

      Yes.

    27. AS

      Versus what is the world telling me, um, I want? And if you're on a sugar and processed food cycle, you can't hear your own signals.

    28. MR

      How- can you explain the cycle? 'Cause I think a lot of us are on the cycle, but we don't realize it.

    29. AS

      Yeah.

    30. MR

      So, like you, right around two o'clock, we have a colleague who I adore who always has dark chocolate.

  8. 39:22 – 41:31

    Here’s what food companies know about dopamine.

    1. AS

      porn, every- they all know that dopamine is so strong, Mel, that dopamine is the only neurotransmitter in our body that can get us out of a seat, whatever we're doing, stop whatever we're doing, get in a car, and go get that thing that dopamine is telling us to do.

    2. MR

      Yeah, it's like, "Drive, go, do."

    3. AS

      I can't think about anything else.

    4. MR

      Huh. So, what? You just mentioned leptin, or leptin. How do you u- what is it and how do you use it to hack hunger?

    5. AS

      Leptin is our fullness signal.

    6. MR

      Oh.

    7. AS

      So, the opposite of ghrelin.

    8. MR

      Okay.

    9. AS

      And it's great because it tells us, "Hey, you're full. You don't need to eat anymore." And so leptin, when it gets released, um, makes us just say, "I'm good." And we want more leptin to e- understand our... So, hear our hunger cues. Our leptin often... We can't hear it, um, because everything else is so loud, right?

    10. MR

      Yep.

    11. AS

      So, one of the ways, best ways to sensitize your leptin is to sleep more.

    12. MR

      Really?

    13. AS

      That's one of the best ways. If you've ever noticed, after a bad night's sleep, you-

    14. MR

      I wanna eat.

    15. AS

      You wanna eat.

    16. MR

      Why?

    17. AS

      And you just don't want... You just don't feel full. Your leptin is 33% less.

    18. MR

      You're right. You do wake up after a bad night's sleep feeling like you're starving.

    19. AS

      Yeah.

    20. MR

      But if you have a really good night's sleep, you wake up feeling calm and relaxed.

    21. AS

      Yes.

    22. MR

      And I don't have the hunger pain.

    23. AS

      Yeah.

    24. MR

      And unless I'm addicted to something in the morning, I don't really have the craving dopamine cycle either.

    25. AS

      Yeah. So, if you think about it, we wanna start to use our inner signaling pathways-

    26. MR

      Yeah.

    27. AS

      ... to hear what our body's telling us because our body is really smart. And so leptin, that one of the best ways is to get more sleep. Another really great way is to eat more omega-3 fatty acids.

  9. 41:31 – 45:45

    Do this when you want to stop overeating.

    1. AS

      So, omega-3 fatty acids are one of the things in salmon. Uh, for people who don't eat fish, it's in algae oil. Um, so you can take the algae oil. Um, uh, nuts have omega-3. It's a great way to start to get your leptin back up, so that-

    2. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. AS

      ... a lot of people will start eating more omega-3 fatty acids and all of a sudden, they're not as hungry anymore. And part of the signaling is through both leptin and CCK, um, which are both kind of the satiation, satisfaction. Don't we all wanna just be more satisfied?

    4. MR

      Yes. Now, can you take leptin in a pill?

    5. AS

      Um, there's no leptin in a pill as of yet.

    6. MR

      Okay.

    7. AS

      But that would be the million dollar drug, right? (laughs)

    8. MR

      Oh, that's true. That's not what that Wegovy or whatever the heck it's called-

    9. AS

      So-

    10. MR

      ... is doing?

    11. AS

      So, d- glp-1-

    12. MR

      I don't know what that is.

    13. AS

      ... is a hormone-

    14. MR

      Okay.

    15. AS

      ... that matches, that works in conjunction with leptin-

    16. MR

      Okay.

    17. AS

      ... to make you feel full. The medications, Ozempic, Wegovy, all of those medications in that class, um, are glp-1 agonists, which means it raises our level, our natural level of these satiation hormones. And so glp-1 is kind of like leptin in the sense that it makes us feel full.

    18. MR

      Huh.

    19. AS

      And it's naturally released by our gut when we're full.We can eat things like nuts and certain foods that actually release more GLP-1 naturally. So, you can get the same effect naturally, so getting more sleep, exercise. These are all ways to actually get more of that natural hormone to make you feel more full.

    20. MR

      Wow. Um, do you have a simple way to stop yourself from overeating if you're just a chronic overeater?

    21. AS

      There's- (laughs) there's a few simple-

    22. MR

      Okay.

    23. AS

      ... ways. Um, if you want to stop overeating-

    24. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    25. AS

      ... one of the things you can do is you pair the good activity, uh, a good activity right after the bad activity.

    26. MR

      So, give me an example.

    27. AS

      So, it's like a positive replacement behavior.

    28. MR

      Okay.

    29. AS

      So, you, um, did something that you didn't want to do, maybe you ate an ultra-processed food that you are trying to cut down.

    30. MR

      Okay.

  10. 45:45 – 49:23

    Why does dopamine work better when you reward yourself at random times?

    1. AS

      day." So then, you sit with the, um, new dark chocolate. You go through it, and you basically, I call it my three, two, one method.

    2. MR

      Okay.

    3. AS

      So, three random days a week-

    4. MR

      Okay.

    5. AS

      ... two minutes telling yourself how much you love this chocolate.

    6. MR

      (laughs)

    7. AS

      It's so much, it's such a better choice. CBT, which is cognitive-

    8. MR

      Yep.

    9. AS

      ... behavioral therapy.

    10. MR

      Yep.

    11. AS

      Saying, "I'm so happy I chose this."

    12. MR

      Yep.

    13. AS

      One minute savoring it, and you have, you do this for two weeks, and you have replaced that bad habit with a good one.

    14. MR

      No k- okay, so let me just make sure I got this. So, if it's three, two, one method and I'm picking three days this week, could I, if I don't have somebody to do this with me, could I just set an alarm in my phone-

    15. AS

      Yes.

    16. MR

      ... randomly? Alarm goes off, boom, that's the random-

    17. AS

      Yes.

    18. MR

      ... rep- intermittent replacement.

    19. AS

      Yes.

    20. MR

      Second thing I do is I tell myself the reasons why this is a better choice.

    21. AS

      Yes.

    22. MR

      The reasons why I'm proud of myself, and then the final thing that I do is I pop that sucker in my mouth, and I enjoy-

    23. AS

      Sit down and enjoy it.

    24. MR

      ... the, and slow down the process of enjoying it. How the heck, after a couple weeks of doing this, would this make my brain no longer want the ultra-processed candy bar?

    25. AS

      Because I'll tell you why. If you look at the other way around, in the negative sense-

    26. MR

      Yep.

    27. AS

      ... this happens all the time.

    28. MR

      That's true.

    29. AS

      We get addicted all the time to things that intermittently reward us with dopamine. Gambling.

    30. MR

      Oh.

  11. 49:23 – 51:48

    Here’s how your gut and your brain talk to each other and what that means.

    1. AS

      with anything, but candy bar, to dark chocolate is a great example. We can do that with so many different things in our life, but food, you can create new memories, new craving pathways.

    2. MR

      Mm.

    3. AS

      Because we have a lot of memories, um, dopamine has neural pathways from when you're a kid. So, reversing those are tough.

    4. MR

      Yeah.

    5. AS

      You have to do this a few t- you know, that's what I'm saying, you got to do it for a few weeks to really feel like now you've replaced that behavior.

    6. MR

      Wow, I think I'm gonna try that with drinking.

    7. AS

      Yeah.

    8. MR

      Tell me about psychobiotics. What the heck are those, and how do they help you stop this cycle of craving?

    9. AS

      They found-

    10. MR

      Yeah.

    11. AS

      ... that there's certain gut bacteria, and they call them psychobiotics because those gut bacteria that's present in people who have depression-

    12. MR

      Yeah.

    13. AS

      ... are the same. And there's gut bacteria that are people that are always, like, happy, uh, or they have a positive outlook on life. They have a specific set of gut bacteria.

    14. MR

      Huh.

    15. AS

      They noticed that there are even studies where you can take Prevotella, you can take, uh-

    16. MR

      What's Prevotella?

    17. AS

      It's a type of bacteria. You can take lactobacillus, a type of bacteria.

    18. MR

      Okay.

    19. AS

      You can add-

    20. MR

      Should I take this? Like right now I'm starting-

    21. AS

      Yes.

    22. MR

      ... like, "Where's my pen? I don't know what to do! I wanna be happy or not depressed, and-

    23. AS

      Yes.

    24. MR

      ... I don't wanna be eating that chocolate at 2:00. Dr. Amy, help me."

    25. AS

      (laughs) So, the world of psychobiotics-

    26. MR

      Yeah.

    27. AS

      ... is the next foray for mental health, because-

    28. MR

      It sounds sexy, psychobiotics.

    29. AS

      Yeah. Like, it is that you can actually change your brain-

    30. MR

      Yeah.

  12. 51:48 – 58:55

    What exactly is the relationship between food and bacteria?

    1. MR

      send the message up to your brain, that this has implications for depression, for anxiety, for all kinds of mental health stuff. Is that what you're saying?

    2. AS

      That's what I'm saying. And it's not just anxiety and depression anymore. It is autism, Parkinson's, um, it is ADHD, it is every single mental health condition that we are struggling with-

    3. MR

      Yes.

    4. AS

      ... in our modern world, seems to be stemming from that bidirectional. Like I said, they talk to each other both ways.

    5. MR

      The brain and the gut.

    6. AS

      Uh, the brain talks to the gut, the gut talks to the brain. And now we're learning that we left this whole half on the table.

    7. MR

      In terms of the gut, you're absolutely right. Because if you think about it, everybody, we have been addressing mental health from the neck up, and we've been addressing it typically with talk therapy or some sort of pharmaceutical drug that presumably acts on your brain and your neurotransmitters. But aren't the majority of your neurotransmitters in your gut?

    8. AS

      Yes. People will say to me, "Well, those neurotransmitters in the gut are so far from the ones in the brain." But what's fascinating is that we're seeing a very tight correlation. Like I said, they talk to each other, and when your gut is producing lots of dopamine, serotonin, these gut bacteria are signaling to the brain in at least four different ways that we know to also release dopamine and serotonin. And so what they're doing is they're sending signals through the nerves, they're sending hormones, they're sending these things called short chain fatty acids, which the gut bacteria make these things called short chain fatty acids, and they go to the brain, and they make it feel happy or sad. So, we are now aware of at least four different ways that what's in your gut is affecting what's going on in your brain.

    9. MR

      So, Dr. Amy, give me the list. What are the bacteria I need to be taking?

    10. AS

      (laughs)

    11. MR

      And what is a bacteria anyway? Like, how is bacteria different than food?

    12. AS

      Yes.

    13. MR

      I know that's a bizarro question, but if I'm eating an apple, the second that you described an apple, you're like, "Okay, you got sugar, you got water-

    14. AS

      Yeah.

    15. MR

      ... you got fiber. Fiber's really important. You got certain vitamins. That signals to your brain that, that you're actually eating something, and that's gonna help you make f- y- make you be fuller." And I didn't even think about the fact that an apple has all that stuff in it.

    16. AS

      Yeah.

    17. MR

      How is it dif- like, where does bacteria come in?

    18. AS

      Yeah. Okay. This is such a great question. It goes back to the fact that we're actually not just ourselves, we're equally, um, bacterial cells. Our body is equally bacterial cells.

    19. MR

      I don't even know what the hell that means.

    20. AS

      Okay. So, in...

    21. MR

      (laughs)

    22. AS

      When you go through the mouth-

    23. MR

      Yup.

    24. AS

      ... you go into your throat-

    25. MR

      Yup.

    26. AS

      ... you go into your stomach-

    27. MR

      Uh-huh.

    28. AS

      ... and then there's these intestines-

    29. MR

      Yes.

    30. AS

      ... and then there's the anus, and you poop it out.

  13. 58:55 – 1:02:39

    The #1 probiotic that you should be adding to your days.

    1. AS

      You need to eat the food that feeds it, meaning fiber, real food, not ultra-processed food.

    2. MR

      Okay.

    3. AS

      So, fiber.

    4. MR

      Yep.

    5. AS

      You need to eat food that have natural bacteria in it, yogurt, kimchi, kombucha, um, all-

    6. MR

      Sauerkraut.

    7. AS

      Sauerkraut.

    8. MR

      Is vinegar good?

    9. AS

      Apple cider vinegar, the raw.

    10. MR

      Okay.

    11. AS

      You need to eat more of that. In fact, they found that four servings, four to six servings a day of, of probiotic food-

    12. MR

      Uh-huh.

    13. AS

      ... was actually the best at increasing the amount of happy bacteria in your body.

    14. MR

      Wow. And what about your, um, what about, uh, so yogurt is okay if it's, like, are the labels 'cause it seems like everybody's adding-

    15. AS

      Yeah.

    16. MR

      ... probiotics to things.

    17. AS

      (laughs) Our bodies su- are so smart. Our body knows that when you're carrying bacteria in your, in your gut, they're gonna first try to kill it 'cause they're, they think it's foreign. So, when you're taking a probiotic pill, a supplement, a lot of it gets killed-

    18. MR

      Okay.

    19. AS

      ... because your body's like, "Oh, this is bacteria, we gotta kill it." Could be bad bacteria, right? When it's inc- in the mesh, think about it like in the net of the food-

    20. MR

      Yes.

    21. AS

      ... in a sauerkraut, in a kimchi, even in apple cider vinegar, uh, naturally occurring, they let it pass through. And so it gets to the lower part of the gut where it needs to be.

    22. MR

      Interesting.

    23. AS

      And so we are now realizing that, oh, wait, we should be doing more things that increase a happy bacteria. You know what the number one probiotic is?

    24. MR

      I have no idea.

    25. AS

      Exercise.

    26. MR

      How the hell is exercise a probiotic?

    27. AS

      Gut bacteria love when you move.

    28. MR

      Okay.

    29. AS

      Um, and they produce this thing called short-chain fatty acids.

    30. MR

      Yes.

  14. 1:02:39 – 1:10:55

    How the hell do you get rid of your sugar cravings?

    1. MR

      For those of us that like sugar in our coffee-

    2. AS

      (laughs)

    3. MR

      ... you know who I'm talking to.

    4. AS

      (laughs)

    5. MR

      For those of us that love dessert, we crave it, baby, like, how do we get rid of it?

    6. AS

      I'm gonna tell you something so profound. Okay?

    7. MR

      Okay.

    8. AS

      When they did a study, they planned it to be 30 days, actually, to change someone's diet very drastically.

    9. MR

      Okay. So, like, give me the drastic.

    10. AS

      Um, go from ... So, what they did is if heavy processed meat, sugar, um, soda-

    11. MR

      Yeah.

    12. AS

      Um, so all the worst foods, so if I had to rank the worst foods, it would be like-

    13. MR

      Give it to me.

    14. AS

      ... high fructose corn syrup, soda, so sodas.

    15. MR

      Yep.

    16. AS

      But drinks also, so juices, proc- you know, orange juice from the grocery store is in the soda category, by the way.

    17. MR

      Wait. Orange juice from the grocery store-

    18. AS

      Yes.

    19. MR

      ... is in the soda category?

    20. AS

      It's pa- it's heat pasteurized. Okay? It's hot. So, all those vitamins that we were hoping for are nuked. The fiber is filtered out, and all you're left with is the water and the sugar.

    21. MR

      Wa- so is the fiber the pulp?

    22. AS

      Yeah. So, if you are drinking an orange juice that's-

    23. MR

      That's been pasteurized?

    24. AS

      ... been pasteurized.

    25. MR

      Does that mean they've boiled it and then put it through a filter and they've s- basically boiled out all the nutrients and then strained it?

    26. AS

      All that's left.

    27. MR

      You're kidding.

    28. AS

      So, it's like people drink juice as if it's a health food, right? Like, it's, "Oh, it's juice." Like, you know, I'm, I switch from soda to juice. Like, soda has a bad connotation, right? But juice is just as bad. Like, if you get a juice from the shelf-

    29. MR

      Yeah.

    30. AS

      ... that ha- and you read the back and you see the sugar content, it rivals a soda.

  15. 1:10:55 – 1:14:36

    Do you get enough sleep? Here’s why that matters.

    1. AS

      do you sleep? And not when you're sleep deprived, but-

    2. MR

      Oh, I bet I sleep ten hours.

    3. AS

      Yeah. That's-

    4. MR

      If I don't have an alarm on, I sleep way longer than I think I'm going to.

    5. AS

      When you look at the last couple of weeks of your life-

    6. MR

      Yes.

    7. AS

      ... the best days, the, when you felt the most refreshed, the best mood-

    8. MR

      Were the days I got the best am- the highest amount of sleep.

    9. AS

      That's how much-

    10. MR

      By far.

    11. AS

      That's how much sleep you need. And every American that's listening to this is gonna be like, "I can't sleep that much." But you think about your best days of your life happened when you slept adequately. It changes your hunger hormones, it changes your hormones in general, you know, for women especially as we get older, um, this is important. It changes your mood. It changes your ability to uh, uh, make decisions.

    12. MR

      Yeah.

    13. AS

      And your interactions with other people. So why would you want to skimp on that? Why would you say that you'll be like everybody else, you know, sleep when you're dead.

    14. MR

      (laughs)

    15. AS

      When you look at the data, the data says opposite. It says if you don't sleep, you'll be dead much earlier.

    16. MR

      That's true.

    17. AS

      If you don't sleep, you will be more depressed, more anxious, have more, uh, hunger and craving signals. You are gonna be a version of yourself that y- is, is a shell of what you want to be.

    18. MR

      So one final thing that I think would be extremely helpful to people. Let's assume that we went to bed early and we wake up and we get a good night sleep. Can you walk us through what you would recommend the eating routine or what is on our plate and when are we actually eating?

    19. AS

      Okay. For ha-

    20. MR

      For like, you know, complete hormone balance.

    21. AS

      Yes. Um, okay. So as you know, it's, everybody is different.

    22. MR

      Yeah.

    23. AS

      And their life circumstances are different. Every time I do this, uh, you know, people say, "Oh, but I work night shift or-"

    24. MR

      Right.

    25. AS

      "... I have little kids." I get it. Like life is, I had many years where I didn't get enough sleep.... where I didn't get enough sunlight, where I couldn't make the best decisions because I was just so pulled in, um, you know, all the different directions.

    26. MR

      Uh-huh.

    27. AS

      So I get it. But we didn't even talk about circadian rhythms, but Mel, sunlight and darkness run our bodies. We have internal clocks in every one of our cells, so routines are excessively important-

    28. MR

      Okay.

    29. AS

      ... in terms of our mood and our, um, our body, our nutrition. So when you wake up in the morning, you want to get sunlight. I have a rule that I learned, um, from someone online. Basically, I did this for a few days and I felt the best I've ever felt, and I'll tell you what it is. When you wake up, instead of scrolling your phone-

    30. MR

      Yep.

  16. 1:14:36 – 1:18:04

    Why you should wait 45 minutes before you drink your coffee.

    1. AS

      in the first 45 minutes of your day.

    2. MR

      Why?

    3. AS

      I'll tell you why. When you wake up, you feel groggy, right?

    4. MR

      Yep.

    5. AS

      That grogginess is partially mostly from adenosine in your brain.

    6. MR

      Adenosine.

    7. AS

      Adenosine.

    8. MR

      Okay.

    9. AS

      And it clears out, as you know. Within 30, 40 minutes-

    10. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    11. AS

      ... it clears out. Then you have your coffee, then you eat your food. And the reason why is coffee, the way it works, it- it blocks our adenosine receptor. So that means that it doesn't help get rid of adenosine, it just blocks it from, from actually binding.

    12. MR

      Okay.

    13. AS

      So if you don't let adenosine clear out and you just drink your coffee, when the coffee wears off in a couple of hours, that adenosine's still there and it just binds-

    14. MR

      Oh.

    15. AS

      ... those receptors and you feel excessively tired.

    16. MR

      And that's why you think you need another cup of coffee.

    17. AS

      And then you're fully dependent, like the people that wake up and they need the coffee right then, and then they need it again at like 10 o'clock, and then they need it again at one o'clock, it's because you're not letting that adenosine-

    18. MR

      Whoa.

    19. AS

      ... go.

    20. MR

      Okay.

    21. AS

      You need to let that clear out.

    22. MR

      I'm guilty of this.

    23. AS

      Yes.

    24. MR

      So I'm gonna try this tomorrow. I am going to absolutely have my coffee and then... Oh no, I'm not.

    25. AS

      (laughs)

    26. MR

      I'm gonna wake up. I'm gonna wait 45 minutes-

    27. AS

      Yes.

    28. MR

      ... then I'm gonna have my coffee. I'm gonna see if I have a craving for a second cup.

    29. AS

      Yes.

    30. MR

      That is fascinating. Okay.

  17. 1:18:04 – 1:25:47

    This is what Dr. Amy thinks about intermittent fasting and how she does it.

    1. AS

      up, maybe you get some movement in, you get your sunlight, you eat about an hour or two even after you wake up.

    2. MR

      Okay.

    3. AS

      You don't need to push it to 2:00, 3:00, 4:00. Like, people are doing this thing. There's good evidence that skipping meals is actually bad for you and that people who do it habitually actually have worse health outcomes. Okay?

    4. MR

      Got it.

    5. AS

      So eat your breakfast. You wanna have a high dopamine breakfast.

    6. MR

      Yep.

    7. AS

      Uh, let's have, you know, cottage cheese, eggs, tofu scramble, veggies, nuts, berries. Okay?

    8. MR

      Great. When do I eat next?

    9. AS

      Then you eat.

    10. MR

      'Cause I'm already hungry.

    11. AS

      (laughs)

    12. MR

      Well, no. Am I hungry right now?

    13. AS

      Yeah. (laughs) Are you hungry?

    14. MR

      Would I eat vegetables? I would eat vegetables right now.

    15. AS

      There you go. Then you're hungry.

    16. MR

      So that must mean I'm hungry. But I gotta have a glass of water first and then I'm gonna ask myself that again.

    17. AS

      All right. Yes. So you can-

    18. MR

      See, I'm learning.

    19. AS

      Then you tune in with the inner Mel, you know, the, the-

    20. MR

      Yep.

    21. AS

      ... brain gut Mel.

    22. MR

      Yep. Okay.

    23. AS

      So then you can eat when you're hungry again. You can use your inner cues. It could be 12, could be 1, whenever your inner cues are.

    24. MR

      Okay.

    25. AS

      You'll notice your ghrelin is set to, uh, to, on a timer. Every day you'll get hungry at the same time.

    26. MR

      So hello, ghrelin.

    27. AS

      Yeah.

    28. MR

      It just oped on... It just, it just, I think, dumped on me.

    29. AS

      Yeah.

    30. MR

      So what do you eat for lunch?

Episode duration: 1:25:47

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode rPextTZy5C4

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome