The Mel Robbins PodcastHow to Design Your Life (A Full Step-by-Step Process)
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
105 min read · 21,001 words- 0:00 – 1:39
Meet the Guest
- MRMel Robbins
What does it mean to design your life? (dramatic music plays)
- DMDebbie Millman
Design is embedded in everything that we do. It's about intention, making decisions about what you want your life to look like and feel like, and then creating a plan to try and make that happen.
- MRMel Robbins
Today on The Mel Robbins Podcast, you are gonna learn the step-by-step process to designing the life you want. (screen whooshes)
- DMDebbie Millman
Debbie Millman is a highly regarded designer... Professor... Artist...
- MRMel Robbins
Writer and brand strategist...
- DMDebbie Millman
... who has taught life design for over a decade. I believe that confidence is overrated. People hate change, that's one thing I can tell you without a doubt. People determine what is impossible before they even try what is possible. You can go after what you want and get it, you can go after what you want and not get it, or you could not go after what you want and you could regret that, and you'll never metabolize that regret. There's no closure. It's just infinite.
- MRMel Robbins
It's infinite suffering.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
This exercise isn't about process, probability, and realism.
- DMDebbie Millman
Whatever it is, anything that you wanted could be manifested.
- MRMel Robbins
So, you achieved 80% of what you wrote down in that one exercise?
- DMDebbie Millman
80%. We're afraid to want things. You're never gonna be younger, you're never gonna be more beautiful. What are you waiting for?
- MRMel Robbins
Where do we begin?
- DMDebbie Millman
We begin very simply, by starting.
- 1:39 – 5:14
Introduction
- DMDebbie Millman
(clock ticks)
- MRMel Robbins
Hey, it's Mel. And before we get into this episode, which I know you're going to love because it's all about designing your life, my team was showing me that 57% of you who watch here on YouTube are not subscribed yet. Could you do me a quick favor? Hit subscribe. It's free. And that way you don't miss any of the episodes that I post here on YouTube. It also lets me know that you're enjoying the guests and you love the content that I'm bringing you, because I wanna make sure you don't miss anything. So thank you, thank you, thank you for hitting subscribe. All right, you ready to design the life you've always wanted? I bet you are. So let's dive in. Professor Debbie Millman.
- DMDebbie Millman
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
Thank you for being here. I'm so excited you are here on The Mel Robbins Podcast.
- DMDebbie Millman
Thank you. It's just incredible to be here.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, I love this topic of designing the life that you want. I love your work. You are somebody that I've been wanting to have here in our Boston studios from the very beginning, so thank you for making the trip. And I'd love to have you start by speaking directly to the person who's with us right now. They want to design a life that they love. And so, Debbie, what does it mean to design your life?
- DMDebbie Millman
Designing your life is about intention. It's about making decisions about what you want your life to look like, and feel like, and embody, and then creating a plan to try and make that happen.
- MRMel Robbins
I absolutely love that because you do have a process that you have been teaching to students and graduate students for almost two decades.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And you're gonna walk us step-by-step through that process. And one of the things, though, in case the person listening isn't familiar with your work, or they're not a graphic designer, or a business owner, or somebody that, that thinks about design, an artist, a creative, can you just explain, you know, how you use design principles in relation to creating the life that you want?
- DMDebbie Millman
Design, in its essence, is about very deliberate decisions about how you want anything to exist. It could be a product, it could be a logo, it could be a room, it could be a meal. Everything that we do intentionally is something that we can design.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DMDebbie Millman
We design how we look, we design how we live. We can even begin to learn how to design some of the things that are more unconscious. And that's what this roadmap for growth really allows you to do. It allows you to sort of wake up some of the things that you hope and dream for, but might have been too afraid to look at, or see, or design.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, what I love about the just topic of design is that even though I don't consider myself a talented designer, if I step in the shoes of somebody, whether they're designing fashion, or they're designing products, or they're, they're creating art, it's the ability to create something that doesn't exist right now.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yes, absolutely. And that's the design in its highest power.
- MRMel Robbins
Is it possible to design your life? Like, like,
- 5:14 – 8:09
Why Possibility Matters More Than Probability
- MRMel Robbins
'cause, 'cause I think that s- anybody, so many, so many of us have had the experience where I'm like completely stuck, I don't know what I want, and you're about to walk us through this incredible process where you can design your life. Is it really possible?
- DMDebbie Millman
Well, Mel.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- DMDebbie Millman
Look what you've done.
- MRMel Robbins
No.
- DMDebbie Millman
Look what you've done. There is a way in which you can create a pathway...
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DMDebbie Millman
... to be able to make decisions about what you want, even if those things change, because it's not about determining what is probable, it's about determining what is possible.... and being able to have possibilities for your life allow you to be able to start to experiment with what those possibilities might feel like.
- MRMel Robbins
I love what you just said. I wanna make sure that as you're listening to Debbie that you really got that. It's not about what's probable, it's about what's possible.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yes. And a lot of people make decisions based on what they think is going to be the most likely successful outcome, and they make those decisions primarily because they're afraid to fail or be rejected or be humiliated or shamed for trying to do something-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- DMDebbie Millman
... that they might not think that they have any right to want. And I'm speaking from experience, I'm not just speaking theoretically. I'm not talking about this because I learned this in college. Actually, most of what I have experienced comes from failing, or being rejected, or feeling ashamed of what I wanted or who I am, and trying to work through that to understand that we have this one life, you can move forward and create something with creativity, with clarity, with spirituality, with honesty.
- MRMel Robbins
And you're gonna teach us through this process that you have been teaching people for almost two decades, how to create a vision from your life that doesn't exist right now, and might even be something that you can't even comprehend that you could possibly create for yourself. And you're here to say, "No, no, no, through this process of thinking like a designer, you can intentionally design the life you want."
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
I wanna start by having you tell me how you came up with this exercise in the first place.
- DMDebbie Millman
Well, it's something that I learned from someone else. I didn't plant these seeds,
- 8:09 – 14:37
The 10-Year Exercise That Changes Lives
- DMDebbie Millman
these seeds were planted for me. In 2005, I took a class with the late great Milton Glaser. Milton Glaser is one of the great, great designers of the 20th century. He created the I Heart New York logo, he created that magnificent memorable Dylan poster where he's in silhouette but his hair is all flying colors. And the last exercise of the class, of this program, was writing an essay to yourself about what you wanted to l- your life to look like five years in the future if you could have and get and be anything that you wanted, anything. And he asked us to take it very seriously. He said he'd been teaching this class for 50 years.
- MRMel Robbins
5-0-50 years.
- DMDebbie Millman
5-0, yep, and he asked us to write an essay five years in the future if we could have exactly the life that we wanted. So he wanted us to write it from the moment we woke up on a day five years in the future 'til the moment w- we closed our eyes to go to sleep. Even though he was one of the most famous, if not the most famous graphic designer in the United States, maybe the world, he said that this class was the most important thing he was doing with his life.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow.
- DMDebbie Millman
He also said, for some mysterious reason, this was an exercise that changed people's lives, that he'd been doing it for so long that virtually not a week went by when a former student wrote him and said, "Everything came true. I don't know how or why, but everything came true." So not only did I write a 12-page essay, I also made a list of 20 things that I would be doing in 2010. And then, Mel, I forgot about it. It was in a journal that I was keeping that I had a lot of other notes in. About a year later, I was trying to remember where I had written an address down of something that was important to me, and I was like, "Oh, I think I wrote it in that red journal." And I went back to my journals and I took out the red journal, which I had finished, and I came across the essay, and I was like, "Oh, wow." Because everything that I had written, I was aspiring to.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- DMDebbie Millman
The things that I was doing that I loved doing, I was doing more of, but there were so many things.
- MRMel Robbins
Like what?
- DMDebbie Millman
Like teaching at the School of Visual Arts, like being a member, uh, a leader in the American Institute of Graphic Arts, writing a book, of curating an art exhibit. By 2006, I had started teaching at the School of Visual Arts. I had forgotten that I'd even put that on the list. I had gotten my first book deal. I had been invited to be a board member of the New York Chapter of AIGA, and I was like, "Whoa. How did that happen?" Because I didn't remember that I had written any of that. I had completely put it out of my mind. Now one thing that Milton asked us to do was to read it out loud-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- DMDebbie Millman
... to the class. So e- everyone got up and shared, and I do think that that declaration was really, really important. It's one thing to write something and sort of hide it.
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- DMDebbie Millman
It's another thing to almost admit-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- DMDebbie Millman
... that these are things that you want. And once you admit it out loud, I think that there's a way that it somehow integrates into your own intentions-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- DMDebbie Millman
... which is what design is. It's decisions that you make intentionally, so you can make a decision about how you wanna live, you can make a decision about who you want to love. These things are very much determined by what we believe we're about.... entitled to, what we believe we're worthy of, and what we think we have enough talent to be able to achieve. But a lot of those are so self-determined, and often they're determined at a very young age before we're really even conscious of making those decisions that then impact the rest of our lives.
- MRMel Robbins
How did this exercise change your life?
- DMDebbie Millman
Well, it changed my life in- in every possible way. It changed how I work, who I work with-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- DMDebbie Millman
... what I do, how I do it. So what happened was Milton stopped teaching.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- DMDebbie Millman
And I started teaching. Milton's on the board of directors at the School of Visual Arts. I also asked him if it would be okay, since he wasn't teaching it anymore, to use that exercise in my classes. But because I was teaching much younger people than mid-level-
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- DMDebbie Millman
... designers-
- MRMel Robbins
20 year olds.
- DMDebbie Millman
... looking to reboot-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- DMDebbie Millman
... their life, I wanted to give them a bit more runway.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- 14:37 – 26:13
How to Start Designing the Life You Want
- MRMel Robbins
this incredible deck of cards called The Remarkable Life Deck.
- DMDebbie Millman
This is a deck of cards that I've- I've created. I- I designed and- and wrote-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- DMDebbie Millman
... the- the questions. It is, uh, a deck that includes, um, instructions. It includes a little journal so that you can write in it if you want. And it includes-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- DMDebbie Millman
... 30 cards that have two different ways you can approach this exercise. Um, the first is very prescriptive, the way I like things, with very clear questions. How do you define happiness? What are your career goals? What are you telling yourself you can't do that you can? Those are the kinds of questions I like, very clear. But other people are maybe a little bit more abstract, want a little bit more freedom to go in lots of different directions that they aren't planning for, and so the other side of the cards are prompts. Imagine immensities, make the impossible possible, took a long time to. So it gives you a little bit more freedom if you prefer being more abstract, and it gives you a little bit more clarity if you like a protocol.
- MRMel Robbins
And one thing I wanna say about you is that you were adamant that we made sure that the process that we're going to go through isn't something that you have to necessarily buy the deck of cards for.
- DMDebbie Millman
Correct.
- MRMel Robbins
And so I wanna just acknowledge you, Professor Millman, for making a download available for free.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
So wherever you're watching this or you're listening, you can go to melrobbins.com/designyourlife, and Professor Millman has designed something for you that you can download that will act as a companion to everything that we're talking about for free. And so I wanna thank you upfront for that.
- DMDebbie Millman
Oh, my pleasure. I- I- I wanted... When- when I was asked to- to create something around this exercise, I- I was very specific about it at the time being cards-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- DMDebbie Millman
... that people can play with.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- DMDebbie Millman
They can answer some of the questions, they can answer all of the questions, they can go in any order they want to, or they can go in the order that they came out of the box. And so, for people to have this access to this exercise is the most important thing to me.
- MRMel Robbins
So one quick question is, how specifically should we do this exercise? 'Cause you know, I know the person that's with us right now listening or watching is probably a lot like I am, like, "Professor Millman... How do, how do I do this, Debbie? Tell me what to do." Am I writing it down? Can I listen to this podcast if I'm on a walk and then come back and write it down? Like, what's the actual steps before you walk us through the prompts and questions?
- DMDebbie Millman
I would suggest that you write however you like to write.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- DMDebbie Millman
If you like to write on your phone, write it on your phone. If you wanna write it on your iPad, you can write it on your iPad. If you wanna write it on paper, awesome. If you wanna write it in a journal, beautiful. However you feel comfortable, that's the most important thing.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- DMDebbie Millman
There is no prescription to how it's done. And I would wait for an opportunity or carve out an opportunity for you to be in a place where you feel peaceful, where you feel free, where you'll have some space just for you, and then start to work on beginning to envision-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- DMDebbie Millman
... what your life could be like if you could have anything that you wanted and you were unafraid to pursue your dreams.
- MRMel Robbins
I love that. And so if you're listening or watching right now, I'm gonna invite you to just listen or watch this entire conversation, because I know your work, and I know simply experiencing the conversation right now will actually crack something open, so that when you find time...... to sit with a journal, or be in a place where you can write this stuff out, you're gonna have already taken the first step, and be-
- DMDebbie Millman
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... really ready to just jump into that cold pool on a warm summer day.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And it's gonna be incredible.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- 26:13 – 30:36
How to Take Up Space in Your Own Life
- DMDebbie Millman
How is your health? How do you take care of yourself?" I have hope on the other side because I hope that I stay healthy. I hope we all stay healthy. This is one that sometimes, um, gives people pause. "How do you take up space?"
- MRMel Robbins
What does that mean?
- DMDebbie Millman
That means, do you allow yourself to be fully present? Do you try to make yourself smaller so other people can be present? I think that a lot of people are afraid of taking up space because they might feel like they're literally and figuratively too big, that they're somehow more than they should be, that they're too much, that they want more than they should. "Do you have a spiritual practice? If so, what does that entail? Outline your relationship with money. How much do you need? How much do you want? What do you want to do with it? Ten years from now, what have you developed mastery of?" And on the back, it says, "It took a long time to," because I think it takes a long time to gain mastery of anything.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- DMDebbie Millman
And I think that in today's speed of technology, with today's speed of technology, there's an expectation that as soon as you graduate college, you are a master of whatever it is you wanna be a master of, that you are expected to be successful out of the gate. And I think that's heartbreaking because I think it takes a long time. It takes a long time to do anything worthwhile because you have to practice at it.
- MRMel Robbins
That mastery question is really interesting. What if you don't know what you wanna do? So I'm thinking about the number of people that are gonna share this with 20-somethings in their life-
- DMDebbie Millman
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... or people in their 30s who have spent time doing a certain career. And now they're like, "I don't like this. I need to reinvent myself. I need to change." What if, when you ask yourself... What was the question again? "What have you developed mastery of?" What if you don't know?
- DMDebbie Millman
Chances are, you are harboring some love of something. I don't know anybody that doesn't have dreams. What I did when I first wrote my five-year plan, which turned into a 12-year plan, was have a lot of meetings. I had meetings with gallery. I had meetings with the publisher. I had meetings with, um, corporations that I might be working with. I was doing a podcast. I was writing. So, I just had a very busy day. (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
That's what you imagined.
- DMDebbie Millman
And that's what I imagined. I was just going from thing to thing. I had a lunch date. I had a dinner date. And I just had a very full day of doing all the things that I wanted to do. Now, if you wanna do a lot of things, do a lot of things. The one thing that I can tell you is when you do a lot of things, it takes a longer time to develop mastery of those things.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DMDebbie Millman
Because you don't develop mastery until you practice a lot. If you're doing five or 10 different things, like I've always done my whole life, it, it's not a surprise that I didn't get good at them until I was in my 40s, 50s, and now my 60s. I only realize that now in hindsight. Do I wish that I had spent more time doing any of those one or two or three things? No, because I like a full life. And I like... I still love learning new things, and so if I was only doing one or two things, I think I'd have limited my own creativity in ways that wouldn't have been healthy for me.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- DMDebbie Millman
Now, there are some people that are like, "I want to do that. I wanna be a professional athlete. I wanna be an ice skater. I wanna be a teacher. I wanna be a doctor." Then focus on that one thing, but if you don't know what that one thing is, play with as many things as you want to.
- MRMel Robbins
Do you think a lot of us get stuck 'cause we're not clear what we want?
- 30:36 – 37:13
The Truth About “Not Knowing What You Want”
- DMDebbie Millman
Well, I don't know if it's that we're not clear. It's that we're afraid to allow ourselves...... to imagine immensities.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- DMDebbie Millman
We're afraid to want things, because we're afraid that if we want things and we don't get them, that we are failing or that we'll be humiliated. I once asked a student, "Well what, what would be the worst thing that happened if you didn't get this thing that you wanted?" And he said, "I would die of heartbreak." And I said, "No. No, you won't. You'll metabolize that heartbreak, and you'll be able to understand what it taught you." People determine what is impossible before they even try what is possible.
- MRMel Robbins
Say more about that. Can you give me an example?
- DMDebbie Millman
You wanna be an artist with a capital A. You don't think you could be successful at it. You don't think that anyone will appreciate your work. You don't think that you'll be able to make a living at it. Therefore, you don't pursue it.
- MRMel Robbins
And that's looking at what the impossible... It is impossible for me.
- DMDebbie Millman
But it's all self-determined. There's no, you haven't tested it. You haven't tried it. You've just assumed it because of your own feelings of self-worth or what you're entitled to or what your life can be. So you're determining, "I'm not gonna do this because I don't think I'm going to be successful at it." And therefore, you are determining what is impossible before you even try. And so many people do that. I teach both undergraduate students and graduate students, and 21-year-olds are already deciding that something is not possible for their lives. And that breaks my heart.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- DMDebbie Millman
And because I experience that exact same emotion and that same feeling, I try to help them move through feeling that something isn't possible just because they don't think that they're good enough.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm. Wow. What's the next question?
- DMDebbie Millman
What are five things you would do if you knew you would not fail?
- MRMel Robbins
So 10 years from now-
- DMDebbie Millman
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... what are five things, is it that you would do or that you've done? Like how do you do this? Just anything.
- DMDebbie Millman
What are five things you would do if you knew you would not fail? If you're doing them now, chances are you probably think you're not gonna fail. If you have things as future ideas, chances are you would put those on a list.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, I'll give you a couple answers, because as you asked me about the things that I wanna master or what are five things I would do that I wouldn't fail, well one is, and I'm even laughing at myself. Like I would imagine that that's kind of a normal response, that you feel almost embarrassed that you're about to say this out loud. And I don't know why I am laughing at myself. But one of them is, I really want to write a fantasy novel. (laughs) Like it seems stupid, but I, but I don't know why-
- DMDebbie Millman
Why does it seem stupid?
- MRMel Robbins
... I'm saying it's stupid.
- DMDebbie Millman
Why?
- MRMel Robbins
I don't know.
- DMDebbie Millman
But you're already living a fantasy. Why wouldn't you wanna write a fantasy book?
- MRMel Robbins
I don't know.
- DMDebbie Millman
You know?
- MRMel Robbins
I, like I guess there's something in it. Like maybe it wouldn't be that good. Maybe that's the th- and so-
- DMDebbie Millman
Process, probability, realistic.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes. I'm actually trashing what's possible. What are some of the things that your students say in response to that question? Will you read the question again?
- DMDebbie Millman
What are five things you would do if you knew you would not fail?
- MRMel Robbins
So let's kinda take it by decades, since you've been teaching this process-
- DMDebbie Millman
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... to people of all ages. What do people in their 20s tend to say?
- 37:13 – 48:23
This Is What Self-Sabotage Really Looks Like
- DMDebbie Millman
self-sabotage. (laughs) They tell themselves that they aren't, um, ever gonna meet the person of their dreams. They tell themselves that they're never gonna get the house with the, with the ocean. They tell themselves that they never can have their own business.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- DMDebbie Millman
Um, this is all of the circling restrictions that keep us from actually trying. Th- these are the things that are all about, again, the probability, the realism, and the process. You don't know that you can't do something until you try to do it. And just because you're afraid doesn't mean that, again, that gives you a permission slip to not do it. When you're afraid of something, you have to decide, "Do I have more hope for this possibility happening than I do fear? Or do I have more fear than I have hope?" That's a really important question. If you're holding yourself back, it means that you have more faith in the fear than you do in your hope. And then, you have to really examine why. "Why am I so afraid of it not working out? What if it does?" And I encourage my students, who are all young, and I tell them, "You're never gonna be younger, you're never gonna be more beautiful than you are right now." And I can say that about pretty much anybody. "You're never gonna be younger, you're never gonna be more beautiful. What are you waiting for?"
- MRMel Robbins
Waiting for the fear to go away, but it doesn't-
- DMDebbie Millman
That's that-
- MRMel Robbins
... until you actually do it.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
What's the next question?
- DMDebbie Millman
How do you define happiness?
- MRMel Robbins
How do you define happiness?
- DMDebbie Millman
(sighs) I thought about this one a lot. When, when am I happiest? And Mel, um, I'm happiest when I'm making things. That's when I'm happiest. Making these cards, drawing them, writing them gave me a great deal of joy. Writing my most recent book, it's a visual book, so I drew and wrote at the same time, My Love Letter to a Garden. When I was doing that, I realized, "I could do this for the rest of my life."
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DMDebbie Millman
That's happiness. Happiness is being with my wife. I feel an enormous amount of peace and contentment when I'm with her. You know, Seth Godin is another dear friend of mine and- and my other mentor, and he talks about happiness as contentment. Happiness isn't searching for happy. Happy is in the moment and you're content. Nothing's going to make you happy. If you are content with what you have, that's happiness.
- MRMel Robbins
I agree. That's how I would've answered it. Like, just, "I'm present. I'm in the moment. There's something about what I'm doing that I'm satisfied with." It's not some, like... And creating is a space-
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... when I'm making something, when I'm hanging out with Chris. It's all the same... I, I think a lot of us have the same thing.
- DMDebbie Millman
It's true. Very few people write their 10-year plan and write on it, "I'm going to, um, find the cure for cancer. I am going to go to Mars." Those, I don't know that they've ever come up. It's always about, "How can I create, create, construct a life of meaning, being content?"
- MRMel Robbins
When you ask the question, time travel 10 years, wake up and you're 10 years older, where do you live, imagine your day from the moment your eyes open, the way that the sheets feel, the room that you're in, what you're doing, who is there, what you see, what you do with your time, imagine it all the way through to the meals that you eat, the people that you see, the way that you spend your time, where you fall asleep, how the whole thing feels, when I visualize that, it's painfully simple. (laughs) It really is.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
It's a beautiful day. I'm surrounded by family. I see-
- DMDebbie Millman
And love.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah, and love. I see a couple close friends.
- DMDebbie Millman
(laughs) Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
I'm outside-
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... in nature. I'm, I'm working on something.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
That fantasy novel-
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... that I'm interested in creating.
- 48:23 – 54:56
The Most Crucial Step: Admit What You Really Want
- DMDebbie Millman
the declaration. So, when I do these in my class, when the students have completed, they have a week to do the exercise. They come back the next week and we share them. And that's terrifying to people at first.
- MRMel Robbins
And by share them, you mean read it out loud.
- DMDebbie Millman
Read them out loud. That's what Milton did with us. We had to read it out loud. Some people are really excited. They, like, charge up to the front of the room and they're, like, ready to share. And then other people are super scared and very shaky, and afraid to admit this to folks, afraid to share their desires, their needs, their hopes, their dreams. And...When people hear other people share their dreams and hopes and ideas about their future, it empowers them. This is a wonderful exercise to do with other people, because you can share, and also the people that love you most can also encourage you to go further. And so what happens in the classroom is suddenly people hear other people imagining immensities.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- DMDebbie Millman
You know, one of my favorite, favorite, um, cards is, is this one, imagine immensities.
- MRMel Robbins
What's the question that helps you do that?
- DMDebbie Millman
Well, in this case it's, this is, what are your care- career goals? What is your job title? How do you get to work? Do you travel for your job? How many people do you work with? What is the best part of your job? But this imagine immensities is in consideration of everything here. Imagine immensities. And when people hear other people, nobody responds with, "Really? How do you ever think you can do that?" It's more people cry because they're so thrilled at hearing somebody-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- DMDebbie Millman
... share and declare. And that part of this, I think, is ... allows people to go a little bit further. So after that first week and when ev- and when we share, I ask people to go back one time and add anything you think you might've missed.
- MRMel Robbins
Ooh, so after you read it, you get to add more?
- DMDebbie Millman
And that's something I did, not Milton.
- MRMel Robbins
I love that.
- DMDebbie Millman
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
We get to supersize-
- DMDebbie Millman
Supersize.
- MRMel Robbins
... our own possibilities?
- DMDebbie Millman
When you hear how much other people can expand their possibilities, expand their ideas about their lives, if you have been consumed with process or probability or realism, opens up a door. They see that somebody else ... And that's kind of comparison in the best possible way, where, "Oh my God, this person's giving me permission to expect a little bit more from myself-"
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- DMDebbie Millman
"... hope for a little bit more from myself, manifest a little bit more from myself." And then they do that, and then it's done. And then it's done.
- MRMel Robbins
You know, I, I just wanna share this because for you as you're listening, the Mel Robbins podcast was completely born out of speaking it as a possibility. Like, this, this notion, I'm realizing what would imagine immensities. I literally would turn to, uh, Tracey, who's the executive producer, and my business partner, Christina, and go, "Could you imagine? Like, imagine if there was a podcast," and we had it in Boston. Boston is like the home of higher education globally. Think about all of the research done here in the universities, like 52 second, like two-year schools and trade schools and colleges and universities in the Greater Boston area. There's all these labs and biotech and research and number one research hospitals in the world. Like, imagine if there was a podcast. It felt like a walk with a friend. It wasn't like scientists talking to each other. It was like friends talking. But we were inviting these world-class experts and thinkers and researchers to just hop on over to our studios, and then we get to share this for free with the w- wouldn't that be cool? That's how it began.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And a lot of people are like, "Well, there are no podcasts in Boston." Like, it's really Austin and LA and New York where the big shows are. And ...
- DMDebbie Millman
Don't you love to prove that you can do whatever you want to do?
- MRMel Robbins
Well, I, you know, I, I, I think that it's an important note because especially if you're a new listener and you're discovering it because it's one of the most successful podcasts in the world, you don't realize that it began like everything, with a imagine if. Imagine if. And without opening up your mind to that question, and without giving yourself permission to dwell in possibility-
- DMDebbie Millman
I love that. Dwell in possibility. That's beautiful.
- MRMel Robbins
... it will never be.
- DMDebbie Millman
I love that.
- MRMel Robbins
It's just a, it's just a, a, a, a, a, a want or a desire that you're keeping trapped.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And it's in there. And so I only say that just because without allowing that possibility to exist, even as just an idea among friends-
- 54:56 – 1:02:51
Why It’s So Hard to Imagine a Better Future
- MRMel Robbins
of our producers on the podcast tried the exercise, and a lot of them, especially the producers who are in their mid to late 20s, found it extremely stressful.... to even ask themselves the question, imagine waking up and you're 10 years older, what does your life look and feel like? Where do you live? What do you see? What does it feel like? Why do you think it's so stressful to imagine your ideal future?
- DMDebbie Millman
I think it's particularly stressful now for people in their 20s because the world is so uncertain. And it's very hard in today's world where we are constantly being bombarded with the performative aspects of success, where success is made to look effortless and easily attainable.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- DMDebbie Millman
And that breaks my heart because I know very few people that have become successful easily. There's always the prodigy, but most people have to work really hard to get what they really want.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- DMDebbie Millman
And it takes as much work to get the work.
- MRMel Robbins
That's a lot. How do you cut through that and find that space of possibility? Because your stream- your dreams are still there. It's almost like what you're saying is the acute amount of pressure and overwhelm and uncertainty and options that are before you make you question the possibility even more?
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah. Absolutely. And that's when you have to double down on what you think you can create in your life.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- DMDebbie Millman
And I say that word create very intentionally because you are making it up as you go, and this is an opportunity to ele- to give yourself permission to assume that you could have a life of contentment and peace.
- MRMel Robbins
And beauty and love and all those things.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, what about somebody who feels this conflict that, "Well, shouldn't I care more about the environment? Shouldn't I care more about the issues of the world? Why, like, why should I be thinking about the kind of life or house or all that stuff?" Like, why does it matter to design a life that makes you content, and that allows you to dwell in pos- in what's possible-
- DMDebbie Millman
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... in a world that feels like it's spinning out of control?
- DMDebbie Millman
This isn't about designing a life of extravagance.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- DMDebbie Millman
This isn't about, at least from my perspective, designing a life of consumerism, of rampant consumerism. I actually think that that's sort of the opposite (laughs) of what I want to be able to encourage people to do with this. This is about, how do I wanna feel-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- DMDebbie Millman
... in 10 years? And the more content you are, the more of service you can be to others. And for me, being of service to others and being able to help people avoid some of the mistakes that I made, or at least giving them a sense of perspective about what it means to live a life with meaning, then, then, I'm, um, I've done my job.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah, I'm sure you've had so many students go through this exercise, and they just don't know what they want. They know they're unhappy, but they're not sure what they want. Is there any prompt or anything that really allows somebody to start to move themselves forward with the exercise and visualizing it?
- DMDebbie Millman
Often, I'll ask somebody, "What are you jealous of? Who do you admire? What can you learn from those people? What is that jealousy telling you you wanna do?" And that's sometimes hard for people to understand. Nobody wants to admit to being jealous. But in the privacy of their own essay, if they think about what it is that somebody else has that they really want, it might give them some clues about what they think they can try for.
- MRMel Robbins
So let's say that we've done the exercise.
- DMDebbie Millman
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
You've written this out. You have read it out loud. You know, I'd love to hear how once you do that, because it does work. Absolutely, my life, the things that I've created in my life in the last 15 years are a function of that.
- DMDebbie Millman
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Now, you still have to show up every day and do the grueling, boring things of walking toward it-
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... as the small things start to appear in your life. How do you balance kind of that dreaming big and imagining possibility and being realistic? Or should we not even think about it in those terms?
- DMDebbie Millman
I, there, I don't balance that at all. Realism has to go away, has to go away. If your dream is to win lotto, that is where I think the line in the sand is in terms of realism. That then becomes magical thinking because it's an external thing. You can't make that happen. You can't create that. It's not a process of making. Um, s- other than that, I think dream big, dream wild. (laughs)
- 1:02:51 – 1:09:15
Don’t Fake It Till You Make It — Make It Till You Make It
- MRMel Robbins
of still in that camp of, "Does this really work? Is this for me?" Like, is this really for anybody of any age?
- DMDebbie Millman
I don't see any restrictions to hope. One thing that I do want to share with you is that there's a common, um, statement that people make when they're trying to do something. And people say, "Well, fake it till you make it." And I don't believe in that. I feel that that's very inauthentic. (laughs) I say make it until you make it. If you fake it until you make it, you're pretending. If you're working at making it until you make it, you're part of the process. You're intentional. You're designing your life when you're making it until you make it. And that, for me, between making it until you make it and being happiest making things-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DMDebbie Millman
... feels like where the threads of my life dovetail.
- MRMel Robbins
And where this process actually helps you-
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... to start today-
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... making what you want. You know, you've been teaching this process for years. What i- what if some of the students that you've taught this design your life process to written to you years later to say?
- DMDebbie Millman
So, I've been doing this now with ab- for about 45, 50 classes with an average of 18 to 25 students per class. And I get emails, notes. I sometimes get cards in the mail where they share how this exercise created their lives, because they designed this essay and wrote this essay with their hearts open. And 5, 8, 10, 12, 15 years later, they've manifested either the most important things or everything, or it gave them a sense of what they didn't want and then what they could redesign, because redesigning is as much fun as designing in a lot of ways. And makes my heart sing.
- MRMel Robbins
It's beautiful. It's so beautiful.
- DMDebbie Millman
And then those people can help other people do it-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DMDebbie Millman
... and so on and so on and so on. (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
Well, that's why I'm so excited that you're here, because I see this conversation as an invitation to not only allow you to dream and dwell in possibility and take the invitation to intentionally design the life that you want seriously.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
But I'm also super excited because, you know, as you've been wa- as you watch this or as you listen to this, you're not only gonna do it for yourself, but every person that you care about that you share it with.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
You are sharing that invitation to be able to do that same process for somebody else.
- DMDebbie Millman
Yes. Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And what an incredible gift that is. Uh, incredible. So, Debbie, if, if the person with us does just one thing after hearing everything that you've shared with us, what do you think the most important thing to do after listening or watching this is?
- DMDebbie Millman
I would say just give it a shot. Give it a shot. You'll learn something about yourself. And isn't that the greatest gift we can give ourselves?
- MRMel Robbins
Well, thank you for giving us a process and a very specific thing that we can do to help us do that.
- DMDebbie Millman
My pleasure.
- MRMel Robbins
Debbie Millman, what are your parting words?
- DMDebbie Millman
Well, I'm going to use this as an opportunity to ask a question I ask of myself almost every day. If not now, when?
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DMDebbie Millman
If not now, when?
- MRMel Robbins
You're incredible.
- DMDebbie Millman
(laughs) Thank you. Well, you bring out the best in people, Mel, I have to tell you. You really do. You give people an opportunity to shine. Thank you.
Episode duration: 1:09:15
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