The Mel Robbins PodcastHow to Get Freedom From Self-Doubt with Lewis Howes | The Mel Robbins Podcast
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150 min read · 30,084 words- 0:00 – 9:18
Intro
- MRMel Robbins
(ticking sound) When I sit here and think about what you're about to experience, I can honestly tell you, this is one of the deepest conversations I've ever had with someone that I recorded. And so, I'm glad that my guest today agreed to let me share this conversation with you. It's unlike anything you may have heard before, particularly heard a man talking about. The episode today is about learning how to heal, how to be less reactive, calmer, clearer, more confident, and how happiness and that power inside of you will flow back into your life when you do that kind of work. (upbeat music) Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to a very profound episode of the Mel Robbins podcast. Welcome. I'm Mel Robbins. I'm a New York Times best-selling author and one of the world's leading experts on change, motivation, and habits. And I am really proud to share this conversation with you today. When I sit here and think about what you're about to experience, I can honestly tell you, this is one of the deepest conversations I've ever had with someone that I recorded. And so, I'm glad that my guest today agreed to let me share this conversation with you, because I want you to experience this. I want you to be a part of this conversation. So many of you write to me from around the world every single day about how you feel discouraged because you're starting to realize that you deserve more, and that means that there's work to do. There's work that you need to do in order to face and heal your past, to create better habits, and to experience more happiness and love in your life. Well, my guest today, he has put his head down for the past couple years and he has done the work in his own life. Ultimately, the episode today is about learning how to heal, how to be less reactive, calmer, clearer, more confident, and how happiness and that power inside of you will flow back into your life when you do that kind of work. And this is not a downer of a conversation. Just 'cause it's profound doesn't mean it's not gonna be super empowering and inspiring and entertaining, because I am talking to someone today who has impacted the lives of hundreds of millions of people. None other than New York Times best-selling author Lewis Howes. You may know Lewis because he is the host of the award-winning podcast, The School of Greatness, which just celebrated its 10-year anniversary with over 500 million downloads. That's pretty incredible. And I've had the privilege of being interviewed by Lewis on The School of Greatness podcast four different times, and I'm absolutely thrilled that today we turn the table and Lewis is the one that's in the hot seat. And we're gonna dig into Lewis's healing journey, and we're also gonna cover his latest book, The Greatness Mindset, which is a playbook based on what he's learned after 10 years of interviewing the brightest minds and biggest brains in sports, business, and entertainment. Now, I do wanna give you just a little bit of a warning. Even though the research says trigger warnings do not work because a trigger warning piques your curiosity, but I do wanna tell you right up front, we get into it right away, and there is a lot of intimate and deeply personal topics that we cover. So if you're someone who's in a very sensitive place in your life today, maybe you bookmark this and you come back to it when you got your sweats on and a mug of tea. And if you got little ones running around, please be mindful of the little ears when, you know, Lewis starts telling some of the stories about what he's been up to and about some of the things that he's experienced, because what Lewis shares about his own past and about men and trauma in particular, it's unlike anything you may have heard before, particularly heard a man talking about. Now, I can't wait for this conversation, so let's go. Oh, Lewis, I am so excited you're here.
- LHLewis Howes
Thank you for having me.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, of course.
- LHLewis Howes
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
It's about time since you've had me on your podcast four times.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah, yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
I've been dying to interview you.
- LHLewis Howes
I'm so grateful. Thank you very much.
- MRMel Robbins
What do you wanna get out of this interview? Because you have-
- LHLewis Howes
Uh, who- whoever's listening, I want them to be, to be inspired and impacted in a positive way to, to take action in whatever it is in their life that they need support with. And so, that's my intention. Support the people. They, the people listen, they love you more. That's what I want out of this. So they-
- MRMel Robbins
Wait, say that again?
- LHLewis Howes
The people that listen to this, they love you more.
- MRMel Robbins
Me?
- LHLewis Howes
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
That's your intention?
- LHLewis Howes
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
That-
- LHLewis Howes
Because then they'll, then they, then, then it means you did a great job of getting a lot out of this interview for them, so they're gonna love you more and wanna share about you more. That's my intention.
- MRMel Robbins
Damn it, Lewis.
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
That was a mic drop moment.
- LHLewis Howes
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
And I haven't even asked you a, a, a q- So, so first of all, I gotta give everybody a takeaway 'cause did you hear that? Like, we're talking about your n- we're talking about everything, your life story, like, so much wisdom-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... that you have to give to the world. And I wanna make sure everybody just picked up on something, that he walked in here not to shine a light on his book and how it would help you, but to actually shine the light back on me-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and to have me be successful.
- LHLewis Howes
That's kinda what I've been doing for 10 years, you know, with, with my show is just putting a spotlight on others. And I've found that when I'm shining it on other people, it reflects back in positive ways. Sometimes it's unexpected, but just for your show specifically, I think it's amazing how you've launched this show and it's served so many people. So that's why w- when you asked me what I want out of this, I was like, "Well..."... if you do a great job and making great content in this episode, then people are gonna love you more and they're gonna wanna share it more and help you build your show bigger. So, that's my intention.
- MRMel Robbins
Awesome. Okay. Well, my intention-
- LHLewis Howes
(laughs)
- 9:18 – 11:00
If you were bullied or didn’t do well in school, you’ll relate to this.
- LHLewis Howes
of myself academically. And so, when they would ask to speak aloud, I just would always try to skip or, like, go to the restroom when I'd know that, that it was gonna come to me. I'd try to get out of actually speaking in front of people-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
... 'cause I always thought people were making fun of me or laughing at me. And maybe they were sometimes or they weren't, but that was also my interpretation of not believing in myself academically.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
And so, when I got into kind of, like, the business world and life of just being out there after sports, I didn't have the confidence to speak in front of people what I thought. And so, I just said, "I'm gonna ask people questions." So, that was in my 20s. I would be in rooms of, like, networking events, and I started going to trade shows and conferences from, like, 25 to 30, and I was traveling around the country going to all these big kinda industry events to learn and network and, and meet people. And so often, people would say, "You're, like, the most interesting guy here," and I never said anything except for ask questions and would follow up. And I think when, when, when you really are interested in other people, you become more interesting.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
And so, I've... I kinda took that and ran with it for the last 10 years of my own show. I was just like, "I'm gonna try to be as interesting in others, and good things come back."
- MRMel Robbins
Well, they certainly have.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
I mean, when you talk about 100 million views every month on your YouTube channel, which is impacting and empowering people around the world, or the 11 million-plus people that follow you online, the 500 million downloads, I'd say that's not bad for the bottom four of your-
- LHLewis Howes
Right. (laughs) Right, right, right.
- MRMel Robbins
... in middle school. And, and one, it's one of the reasons
- 11:00 – 18:58
Here’s why I really love Lewis’ story and think he’s so inspiring.
- MRMel Robbins
why I love your story.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Because it's not like you were this heavy hitter in business, sold your company, and now you're gonna go out and tell everybody the secrets. You had to figure out what greatness meant for you, and you had to figure out-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... how to be successful in a world that was telling you that you weren't. And I wanna go back to really where your newest, I'm sure, New York Times bestseller, uh, starts, The Greatness Mindset, and it starts on the couch.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And in order to bring as many people as possible into the tent in this conversation that we're gonna have, would you just put us at the scene-
- LHLewis Howes
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... of Lewis on the couch-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... what your life looked like, looked like, how old you were, what the hell was going on?
- LHLewis Howes
This was, uh, September 2007. I'd just had surgery on my wrist, so you can kinda see the scar here still, and they took a bone out of my hip, put it into my wrist. So, I was in a cast from my shoulder to my fingers. I couldn't use my thumb. It was kinda locked in this position for six-
- MRMel Robbins
Locked in like a cactus position? In the-
- LHLewis Howes
Like this. Yeah, yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
In the cactus?
- LHLewis Howes
You know the, the, the movie Rookie of the Year, this, like-... baseball kid player who has a broken arm, and then gets the cast off and it's like super strength. It was kinda in this position, like an L shape, like this. Um, I could move it down.
- MRMel Robbins
So now, can I ask you a question?
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
So, when you have your hand locked in a cast-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... in a ca- cactus arm-
- LHLewis Howes
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... position, do your finger, are they numb all day, your fingers? Like, what happens?
- LHLewis Howes
Well, I can move, I can move it down.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- LHLewis Howes
I can move it, I can move it here and like here.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, okay. You just-
- LHLewis Howes
But I couldn't straighten my arm.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- LHLewis Howes
And so there's this kind of big bulky thing here, and it also just smells really bad, you know. I don't know if you've ever had a cast on.
- 18:58 – 22:38
Almost all of us have an identity crisis at some point in our lives.
- LHLewis Howes
and a half in this phase of sadness about my dad, sadness about my identity, my injury. It's also... 2008 was like a... it kinda felt like 2020 with the economic crisis.
- MRMel Robbins
Right. Right.
- LHLewis Howes
And so I'm... I don't have a college degree yet. I'm trying to figure out how to get my degree and finish it while I get a job, but no one's hiring people without degrees at that time. So it was just kind of like, "What am I doing in this world? Why are these things happening?"
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
One of those phases.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah. And I think I just wanna say that there's a lot of times in life where things happen and you feel like that, whether your marriage didn't work out and you never expected to be divorced, or you go all in on a business-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and it goes bankrupt, or you end up struggling with an addiction after surgery and painkillers. And so, I think this moment is really important for us to unpack. And so I want to have you read-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... a part of your book.
- LHLewis Howes
Okay.
- MRMel Robbins
So that highlighted section, I'd love for you to read 'cause it takes us right back to the moment of what you were feeling when you were on that couch, and I want you to read it because it's so easy, Lewis, for everybody to see how unbelievably successful you are and not realize that you started in the exact same place that so many people listening are in right now.
- LHLewis Howes
Hmm. Hmm. "I felt like all I could... all I could do during those dark days was flip through TV re- reruns and infomercials with the remote as I felt my chance at greatness not s- just slipping away, but sprinting as fast as it could go. I didn't know what to think, how to feel, or how to process my own emotions. And on top of that, I hadn't even finished college at the time. I was financially, physically, emotionally, and spiritually broken. I wondered what to do next, and from my perspective, I was now very much alone, but I knew this couldn't be how the story of my life went. I knew there had to be more to my story, there had to be greatness inside of me, but I didn't know where or how to get started. Yet deep down, I knew I would eventually figure it all out."
- MRMel Robbins
So, obviously, your book is a roadmap to that. But can you just talk to somebody who's like, yeah, like, how do you tap into that knowing that you are meant for greatness, especially when the shit has hit the fan and your life feels like a disaster?
- LHLewis Howes
Hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Like, what would you say to somebody that's listening right now that just feels as lost as Lewis circa 2008 was?
- LHLewis Howes
I'm... I'm very grateful that I had a voice inside of me that was keeping me going. And a lot of times when I was in elementary school, I used to say I wish I was dead a lot. I would get in trouble, get sent to the principal's office, and I'd say, "I wish I was dead. I wish I were dead. I wish I were dead." And, and I don't know if any of you can relate to that feeling. I didn't... never felt suicidal like I actually was gonna do it, but I remember saying essentially, "Why am I here? Am I enough? Am I lovable? Will I ever matter?" That was like a thing that was just a constant theme inside of me. But there was a voice that it was also like, "Just keep going," you know? (laughs) It was like, "You got this. Just keep going." So I'm really grateful that I was able to hear that voice even though I was so distracted and the, the loudness of insecurity was crippling my mind.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
It was so loud
- 22:38 – 26:18
Hear Lewis’ two-part advice if you’re drowning emotionally.
- LHLewis Howes
and so overwhelming that it felt like I was drowning emotionally. And so if someone feels that way now, what I would say is two things. Number one, like hold on to whatever voice that says... even if it's like a second a day that's like, "Keep going." Like, hold onto that voice, 'cause that is the thing that has allowed me to overcome so much. And I wish I would have learned sooner what I talk about in the book, which is allowing myself to heal all the memories and pain from the past.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
And it really wasn't until I started that process 10 years ago of healing past memories where things started to unlock, where I started to feel free internally, and then externally, the things that I was accumulating or creating or developing was more meaningful. Because before 30, I was successful, I was accomplishing, accumulating, attracting, but it didn't feel enough because I didn't feel enough.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
I didn't feel like I was worthy of receiving. I didn't feel like I was deserving of love because I didn't accept me. And it really wasn't until the last two years when I went even deeper into healing that I was like, "I'm gonna go back into every painful memory of my past and create a new meaning from those memories, and I'm going to create a loving relationship with any shame or guilt or insecurity that I once had and just have a new relationship with it." It doesn't mean it wasn't painful. It doesn't mean I wish things didn't happen. It doesn't mean I didn't do things I'm ashamed of. But creating a new relationship with it so it doesn't hurt me today. And those two things of listening to the kind of the voice inside of me telling me to keep going and being on a journey of healing...... has given me such a sense of emotional freedom and peace that I've never felt in my life. And it allows me to not abandon myself-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
... anymore. And I think for many years, I would abandon myself to fit in, to belong, to be accepted. And the more I would do that, I would feel shameful because I was doing things that I knew weren't in alignment with who I was or my higher self was. And so once I started to heal, I could stop abandoning myself, create barriers or boundaries in my motions or in my life-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
... so that I could stay in peace and be okay with disturbing things around me, um, by standing my ground in certain situations.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
And that has been the biggest gift I've given myself because it has allowed me... Someone was asking me on the phone when I was driving here, he was like, "How did this book come about?" I go, "I had the idea for it for years, but I didn't have inner peace. I couldn't, I couldn't... I didn't have the energy to create it. And once I got clear on my inner peace, like this just came out. And I'm already, like, just creating so much 'cause I have clarity." And it wasn't until I was able to get full clarity and ownership of accepting who I am where I was able to start doing these things authentically. So it's been a journey.
- MRMel Robbins
So, there is so much to unpack in what you just said, and I'm so happy you went deep in the beginning.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Because it's been a journey from being the 23-year-old lost former professional-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... football-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... person to really realizing that chasing success got you so far-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... but you had to fix what felt broken on the inside.
- LHLewis Howes
100%. Yeah, and, you know, as a... Growing up, I wanted success.
- 26:18 – 27:11
Here’s what happens when success never feels fulfilling.
- LHLewis Howes
The, the thought of success was like the answer, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
And that was maybe... I don't know why that came about, but it was always about how to be successful.
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- LHLewis Howes
And I achieved success for m- on my terms, but I didn't feel fulfilled.
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- LHLewis Howes
And I didn't feel like it was enough, so then I would have to achieve more and more and more to fill something up where I didn't feel enough. And I, and I think there's a difference between success and greatness where success is more selfish, about me, and greatness is about we. It's going after your goals and dreams, but making it about impacting others in the process, and them being celebrated, and them accomplishing as well or improving as well. And it's much more rewarding that way. So I feel like I want to create more, but I'm also happy with where I'm at, and it's a sense of peace. It's like, yes, I'm always gonna be striving for more, at least in this season of life. Maybe when I'm
- 27:11 – 31:02
What does it feel like to be “at peace”?
- LHLewis Howes
90 I'm just like, okay, I don't want more, I want less, and that'll be a different season. But for now, I want more, and I'm also just peaceful with where I am because I accept who I am. And I didn't know that that was the game, accepting yourself. It's accepting, but also saying you still get to improve, you still get to grow, you still get to transform, but also accepting and loving where you're at.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, so let me unpack this a little bit because I think there's so much wisdom that you just dropped, like, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. And I also want to say something. If you're sitting here going, "B- b- b- b- b- but hold on a second, I don't even know how he went from 23-year-old, broke, like, on the sister's couch, lost for a year and a half, dad having this to now all of a sudden this crazy successful business and podcast and millions of fol-... Like, how did he do that? And wait a minute, Lewis Howes, are you telling me this inner peace bullshit... Like, I need to pay my bills. Like, don't be talking to me about that."
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And so I wanna say a couple things. Yes, we will get to the story of how he went from the couch to building what he built, but there's something much bigger in terms of the master class that is being offered to you in this moment where Lewis is going to save you the almost 13 years, was it? How long was it?
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Tw- two decades or whatever-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... of pain that he put himself through-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... to get to the wisdom and the greatness that he has unlocked in himself. 'Cause I've known Lewis for five years. He is a different human being, a different human being than even just a year ago. And I think that it is possible, and Lewis will tell you this, to be a competitive motherfucker and to compete at the highest levels, which he does.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I still like to win.
- MRMel Robbins
Hell, hell yes.
- LHLewis Howes
But it's a win-win, you know?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- LHLewis Howes
It's, it's a different type of win.
- MRMel Robbins
And to be a calm-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... cool, and confident person-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... because you have peace with yourself-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... as you are doing those things.
- LHLewis Howes
And even just to comment on what you said about paying bills, I don't think you can have financial peace unless you have inner peace, because there's so many people that you know that have lots of money who are overly stressed.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- LHLewis Howes
And more money doesn't always solve every problem.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
It solves lots of problems-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
... but it doesn't always solve the problem of accepting and loving yourself.
- MRMel Robbins
That's true, and I'm gonna add something to that, because both Lewis and I have been in moments of our life, and ironically it was during 2007 and 2008, where neither one of us were able to buy groceries-
- 31:02 – 32:28
Listen to Lewis describe the surprising places he felt his past trauma.
- LHLewis Howes
I used to feel a lot of pain in my chest, or tightness in my throat, or disturbance in my stomach. I used to feel like I couldn't sleep at night because I was up for an hour and a half, like, ruminating or thinking and stressed.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
I used to be very reactive when my nervous system was triggered.
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- LHLewis Howes
I feel like that's, that's the opposite of healing. You know, healing is learning how to overcome all those things, so your nervous system is in peace when there's chaos around you. It doesn't mean I'm not gonna feel triggered momentarily or feel like, "Oh, I don't like that," or react-
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- LHLewis Howes
... to a thing or feel disturbed. But it's learning how to recognize it much faster, and from a place of integrating healing and lessons, be able to respond differently when there's a disturbance, as opposed to based on a wound. So most of my life, I was just reacting and responding based on wounds that I was unaware of. Or maybe I was aware of them, but I was just like, "This is who I am. Don't mess with me," You know? It's like, "This is-"
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, how many of us have heard that?
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah. This is... "Don't try to change me. Don't mess with me." Like, "This is who I am. I'm fine."
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- LHLewis Howes
You know? "There's nothing wrong with me." Like this, like, reaction. And um...
- MRMel Robbins
Can you give people a sense that don't know? You've wrote about this extensively in your new n- New York Times bestseller, The Mask of Masculinity, um, and you talk about this on your podcast, but can you give people a sense of some of the things that needed healing? So, I'm gonna just point out one of them.
- 32:28 – 35:08
Here’s how Lewis came to terms with being dyslexic.
- MRMel Robbins
So being in a classroom where you cannot do cognitively because of a learning-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... difference. You and I both have dyslexia. Yours seems to be probably more profound than mine. Um...
- LHLewis Howes
Even reading my own words, I trip up sometimes because I still have to practice, like, reading slowly and with a cadence.
- MRMel Robbins
So what was that like for me to pass the book to you?
- LHLewis Howes
I, I was even gonna say it. I was like, you know, this is like, I get to practice my insecurities all the time. I have to read on a teleprompter all the time, and I'm always like, just take a deep breath and know that... I just know that I'm not gonna be the best reader in the world, and that's okay. And so I just say, "You know what? I accept myself when I stutter. I accept myself when I stumble. I accept myself when I have to redo a sentence over and over again because I wasn't able to see what's coming next-"
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
"... and it just didn't sound right." It probably takes me twice as long to read my audiobook as you do, right?
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- LHLewis Howes
And uh, and I've, I... But I used to hate myself for that and beat myself up, and now I accept and love myself. And when I do that, I notice I read a lot better and I flow a lot better. And it's n- you know, it's not perfect or anything, but I'm like... It's just, I save a lot more time, I'm more relaxed. And as opposed to I used to s- to beat myself up and be the biggest critic, now I'm just a positive self-coach in those moments. I'm just like, "Oh, you got this. Uh, it's okay." You know? You'll do-
- MRMel Robbins
Can we unpack that for a minute?
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
'Cause I think it's a really relatable example. So, every one of us has something that we're self-conscious about-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... or that we beat ourselves up about, whether it's our weight-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... or like, you know, something about our skin, or our hair, or our height, or... You know, for you, you mentioned stuttering and stumbling and reading out loud or being slower at something. And you so beautifully talked about how you used to just beat the hell outta yourself. You hated that-
- LHLewis Howes
Hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... about yourself. How do you, or how did you, Lewis, learn-
- LHLewis Howes
Hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... to accept something you hated? How do you fucking do that?
- LHLewis Howes
There's many different modalities of h-
- MRMel Robbins
What worked for you?
- LHLewis Howes
... of healing.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- LHLewis Howes
And I, and I feel like over the last 10 years, I was telling your husband Chris about this. I was like... 'Cause he was asking me about all these different things.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- LHLewis Howes
And I was like, "I feel like I've tried lots of different stuff because I got a lot of work to do."
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- LHLewis Howes
So I'm willing to, I'm willing to dive in and like s- take a look in the mirror and say, "Tell me what to do and I'll try it." Um, and I did workshops, emotional intelligence leadership training workshops 10 years ago that helped me unlock and open up about sexual trauma.
- 35:08 – 36:43
Hold trauma without healing it and it will surface in real life..
- LHLewis Howes
So, it was a huge protection that I was, a shield that I was putting up on myself to show people that I was strong, to show people that I was confident, to show people that I was... that no one could mess with me in sports or whatever it might be. And that, that supported me in accomplishing certain results, but hurt me in feeling loved and harmony and alignment within myself.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
And so, it was exhausting. It's draining. It's an emotional train wreck, because you're kinda living a double life. Inside, you know the truth. Outside, others don't know the truth about you. So you're hiding something.
- MRMel Robbins
And you know, I wanna point something out about this, because we've been doing a whole series on trauma and nervous system repair, and you talked earlier about how your e- lived experience, even though you're super successful on the outside, is like, knot in the stomach, tightness in the chest, something in the throat. You don't even have to be conscious about the fact that you're hiding this thing. It's not like you're walking-
- LHLewis Howes
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
... around thinking about the fact that you were a victim of sexual abuse. It's that it's stored in your body-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... so your body operates at, in a state all the time as if something bad's about to happen.
- LHLewis Howes
I wasn't even like aware that I wasn't telling people. I was just like, you know, trying to block it and, and, and cover it up constantly.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
But it was always in my mind.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
Like...Maybe every few days, the memory would come up in some way. It was just like a movie that was repeating on a, on repeat. And
- 36:43 – 49:10
Listen to Lewis describe the first time he shared his abuse out loud.
- LHLewis Howes
when I did this first workshop, a lot of things started to happen in my life where I was having breakdowns. Intimate relationship, business partnership, just life. I just felt like, uh, man, s- stuff is breaking down all around me. Although I'm successful, why are all these things breaking down? I'm the common denominator. A friend of mine was like... I actually got in a fight on a basketball court, and this was kind of the tipping point where I was the perfect storm. And a friend of mine who was there was like, "I don't wanna hang out with you anymore if you're gonna keep reacting in this way." Because I was the same fun-loving guy, but when I would get triggered, I was like... this reaction would come out of me.
- MRMel Robbins
Like, you'd get, like, super physical, like a linebacker kind of thing?
- LHLewis Howes
I would just, like, def- try to defend myself energetically. But if someone was physically trying to attack me, which in a basketball game is kind of a, a, you know-
- MRMel Robbins
Isn't that part of the game?
- LHLewis Howes
Yes, but I would take it so personally. So when there was a cheap elbow, there'd be like, turn around, and be like, "Let's go. Let's fight." So I didn't have the filter 'cause I felt like someone was always trying to abuse me or take advantage of me.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, 'cause they had.
- LHLewis Howes
Exactly. And so this was kind of the, the, the last thing that happened. I got in this fight, and my friend was like, "Hey, I don't wanna hang out with you. I don't wanna play basketball anymore with you if you're gonna react like this." And it was a tendency that was happening for many months more and more until this, like, fist fight came up.
- MRMel Robbins
Fist fight?
- LHLewis Howes
Fist fight. Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
On a basketball court?
- LHLewis Howes
On a pickup basketball court.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs) So it was...
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah, there was no stakes on the line. It was just, like, a friendly game in the mean streets of Beverly Hills. Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- LHLewis Howes
And, um-
- MRMel Robbins
How old were you?
- LHLewis Howes
And I... I was... 10 years ago. Yeah, it was 10 years ago.
- MRMel Robbins
So how old are you now?
- LHLewis Howes
I'm 39. So I was 29.
- MRMel Robbins
30... so when you were 29 years old.
- LHLewis Howes
And I remember, there was a police station right across the street. It was in West Hollywood, right up... it was 10 minutes away from here, and, um... And I 'member going home after this. Well, I remember seeing the guy's face when it was done and being really scared of what I had done.
- MRMel Robbins
Meaning, i- i- he, he-
- LHLewis Howes
Now, uh, his face didn't look good. I'll just say that. And he... and I always had this rule that I'll never hit someone unless they hit me first. That was kind of like my thing. But I'll ins- I'll fricking get in someone's face, I'll talk trash, whatever, but I was like, "I'll never hit someone unless they hit me first." He ended up headbutting me 'cause we were, like, kind of in each other's faces, and he headbutts me, and then I kinda just go blank.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
And I, and I turn into, like, the Incredible Hulk-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
... in that moment. Like, this guy hit me. There's no rules. And, um... And afterwards, I had so much adrenaline, uh, 'cause I don't think I'd gotten in an actual fight n- since I was, like, 13, right? So I played football to get my aggression out, but then no- I no longer was able to hit people legally, right? (laughs) And so this was a point where this happened. And I remember going home and looking at myself in, in the mirror and being like, "Who are you?" I did not recognize myself. And I real- was really kinda like shaking 'cause I was like, "What am I doing?" Like, "Who am I? What are you... why are you reacting?" I started to, like, ask myself this question. And I remember thinking, like, "I have too much to lose now-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- LHLewis Howes
... to allow my anger, my fears, my wounds, to be in control."
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- 49:10 – 49:42
After all the work he’s done, how does Lewis define “greatness”?
- LHLewis Howes
without going on a healing journey, in my mind. You can accomplish a lot. You can achieve a lot. You can get a lot of awards and make a lot of money, but I feel like if you feel like you don't, are still aren't enough, then you're not great, I don't think. I really don't think so.
- MRMel Robbins
'Cause it's the enough, the thing that you're chasing is outside of you.
- LHLewis Howes
It is outside of you. And again, I was chasing them to feel better about myself, to feel like, "Okay, I matter, and I have value," because I didn't believe I had value. And I think, um, once you believe you have value,
- 49:42 – 50:00
Here’s what’s incredible about seeing your own value.
- LHLewis Howes
then you're creating from a space of love and win-win and service as opposed to, "I need to do this for me and look good and feel something up inside of me." You're doing it from a more healing journey, uh, place, and then you're able to give more. You're able to create in a better place.
- 50:00 – 52:47
When no matter what you do, you don’t feel like you’re enough.
- LHLewis Howes
So a lot of my life was doing things to prove people wrong.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- LHLewis Howes
That I felt abused, abandoned, made fun of by. It's like, "Well, let me go make, create, succeed to prove people wrong."
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- LHLewis Howes
So when I would lose, I was a bad loser, 'cause I was like, "Oh, I didn't prove them wrong. I lost. They were right." And so it was just a different energy of creation. It's the second most powerful fuel is the fuel of anger and not enoughness.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- LHLewis Howes
You can go nonstop for years trying to prove your enoughness from that state. But it is exhausting energy. It's draining. It's like you feel like, "Oh, what was the point of this?" So many times I accomplished things in sports, biggest dreams, after 10 and 15 years of thinking about them, working hard, and then accomplishing it, and feeling, like, so angry after I accomplished it, 'cause I thought I would feel something different.
- MRMel Robbins
Hm.
- LHLewis Howes
And I still didn't feel good enough. So it was like, "I need to go create more and accomplish more." And then I would do it, and I was like, "Why am I still feeling alone inside?" It's 'cause I didn't have a good relationship with me internally. And once I started to shift that, I just feel such a good sense of peace. And because I have a meaningful mission that is not about me, it's about others as well. And so-
- MRMel Robbins
You talk about mission in this book a lot.
- LHLewis Howes
... and I think that's the foundation is, like, getting clear on a meaningful mission that is not about-
- MRMel Robbins
How do you do that?
- LHLewis Howes
Uh, I mean, it's a-
- MRMel Robbins
I mean, you've got, you've got the framework in here, but-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah. It's a process.
- MRMel Robbins
... but I'm, I'm trying... I'm thinking, Lewis, about the person.
- LHLewis Howes
It depends on the season of your life. And again, if you are trying to pay your bills, you can't think about a meaningful mission. You gotta think about protecting yourself, safety, and getting to a place of financial stability.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, that's a meaningful mission, right?
- LHLewis Howes
And that is a meaningful mission for this season, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- LHLewis Howes
So when I was on my sister's couch, that's all I could think about was like, "How can I make enough money to get off the couch?"
- MRMel Robbins
Great.
- LHLewis Howes
And so that was the mission for that season. But once you complete that, you gotta think about something bigger that includes others, right? And so I was still including others in that by adding value to people in order to get money from them, right? Essentially, I'm gonna give you a service. I'm gonna help you, and you're gonna pay me.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- LHLewis Howes
So I'm helping them overcome a problem. And I was using my, my passion and my power to solve a problem. And that's what I started to do. And then I started to... Once I, once I overcame that mission or accomplished it, I was like, "Okay, now I can see a little bit further. Now what do I wanna create?" And same thing happened with the School of Greatness. Once-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah, so hold on. I just want for, to tell everybody.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
So Lewis basically in looking for a job figured out how LinkedIn worked.
- LHLewis Howes
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
And then realized, "Oh, whoa. I can teach other people-
- 52:47 – 57:43
The wake up moment that led to The School of Greatness.
- MRMel Robbins
idea.
- LHLewis Howes
So after, I don't know, four or five years of, of kind of teaching LinkedIn and then expanding it into just social media and marketing in general and courses and stuff like that, I realized, okay, I had enough money for maybe two years to live.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh. That's pretty damn good, Lewis.
- LHLewis Howes
And when you're broke and poor, uh, at least from my point of view-
- MRMel Robbins
That sounds like the Holy Grail.
- LHLewis Howes
When you're broke and poor, though from my point of view, I didn't spend anything. I was like, "I just need to stack everything."
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- LHLewis Howes
'Cause I was in scarcity mode.
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- LHLewis Howes
So I wasn't, like, spending anything. So I had enough, and I also didn't have a car. You know, I was living in, like, a apartment that was only $495 a month. I was, like, living in the, the lowest amount I could. I was, like, taking trains places, not, like, flying anywhere. I was like, "How can I save?"
- MRMel Robbins
This is Lewis the squirrel-
- LHLewis Howes
Yes, yes. I was a squirrel-
- MRMel Robbins
... hoarding his nuts, man. Here we go. That's right. (laughs)
- LHLewis Howes
... trying to get nuts everywhere, put them in, put them in my back pocket. And, um, and once I realized, "Oh, I can actually, like... I'm surviving now," right? I'm, I'm thriving. I'm surviving. I got out of this kind of, like, scarcity mentality.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
I was able to think beyond that. I was able to think beyond this, like, need to, like, just make money really quickly. And, um, I realized I didn't want this anymore. This season of life, I was like, "I don't wanna do what I was doing in this business anymore." So I sold it to a business partner that I had, and I was like, "Okay, I've got about two years of cash if I don't make any money to survive."
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- LHLewis Howes
This is the exact moment when I got into the fight on the basketball court. I was going through a breakup in a relationship that I moved to LA for. And, uh, I was just having breakdowns in life. And so I was literally stuck in traffic in LA a little over 10 years ago. Tuesday next week is my 10-year anniversary for my podcast.
- MRMel Robbins
No way.
- LHLewis Howes
Tuesday next week. So a little over 10 years ago, 10 years and three months ago, I'm stuck in LA traffic. All this stuff had just happened. And I'm just thinking to myself, "Man, I've, I don't have it all figured out." I thought I did. I thought my ego knew.... it was right.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
I thought I, you know, accomplished stuff and this and that, and was featured in the White House and all these other things. I was like, "Man, I should be the man, but I feel like a loser." And I was stuck in LA traffic. We were literally on the 405, and, um, we were not moving. And all these people around me in cars stopped, were screaming and honking and flipping each other off. (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- LHLewis Howes
And I'm honking, and I'm like, "Man, I'm stuck, we're stuck, everyone's stuck." And I was just like, "Okay. Huh. If people are stuck in traffic and they're taking them so long to get places, what if I could offer value and solve a problem for them to get unstuck?" This was literally what I was going through. And I was like, "I need the solution myself." And I'd just started hearing about, hearing about podcasting. This was, um, 20, like, 12. I'd just started to hear, like, just whispers. You know, whispers, "Oh, podcasting, podcasting." What is this thing, right? And I was like... I literally called two friends in the car. It was a long drive, being stuck. I called two friends. I go, "I know you have a podcast. I just saw you launched this thing."
- MRMel Robbins
Who were they?
- LHLewis Howes
Pat Flynn and my friend Derek Halpern.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- LHLewis Howes
Called them both. And, uh, I go, "Tell me about the podcasting thing." And they were like, "I love it. It's the coolest thing ever. Uh, the audience I'm connecting, the building, the relationship, it's the best thing ever. I don't make any money, but it's the best thing ever."
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- LHLewis Howes
And I was like, "Okay, cool." And I was like, "Man, I think could do this." Because I had started to just interview people for myself-
- 57:43 – 58:58
Do this when you want to change your career or start a business.
- MRMel Robbins
Experiment. He gave himself permission to experiment with something for a year. Number two, he took the pressure off and said, "I'm not going to make this experiment generate money."
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And so if you can, whether you're on the couch or you're working a job, if you can give yourself the grace of an experiment-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and take the pressure off of money-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... you now are walking in the footsteps of greatness here.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And so you set out on this experiment.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And you didn't know shit about how to do it.
- LHLewis Howes
I had no clue.
- MRMel Robbins
You have two friends that-
- LHLewis Howes
I had an iPhone that I used to record in the beginning. I had no clue what I was doing. I was, you know... Uh, I was trying to do what I thought I was supposed to do. I was just, like, trying stuff. And my... It's funny 'cause my assistant listened to the first episode, like, last week. She goes, "I went back and listened to the first episode." She goes, "You're a completely different person." (laughs) And I'm like... 'Cause it was more about success, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
It was more about, like, achievement and winning and, like, results.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, I have to go back and listen now. It's like, "Yo, Lewis."
- LHLewis Howes
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
We're gonna have to pop in a little audio-
- LHLewis Howes
Right. Th-
- MRMel Robbins
... of Lewis introducing himself. (laughs)
- LHLewis Howes
Exactly. Then after... Then I went to this workshop a few months later. And I s-
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, the one where you-
- LHLewis Howes
Opened up about-
- MRMel Robbins
... spoke for the first time?
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah, about sexual abuse and all these things. And I actually... This is so funny. I actually learned the concept about no one wins...
- 58:58 – 1:00:41
I love this way of thinking about winning.
- LHLewis Howes
Uh, you don't win unless everyone wins around you. You know, that was like, "What?" That concept didn't make sense to me as an athlete. I was like, "No. There is one winner."
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- LHLewis Howes
"Everyone else must lose. Otherwise, you're the loser," right? That was kind of, like, the mentality that was j- I was trained with.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- LHLewis Howes
It was a programming that I was conditioned to have. And this workshop taught me that you don't win unless everyone wins.
- MRMel Robbins
You embody that, dude.
- LHLewis Howes
And it, and it is about... And it... Thank you. And it's about... It doesn't mean... You know, winning could look differently for everyone around you, but there must be, like, a win-win experience. Otherwise, your win doesn't mean as much if, if others aren't improving and growing and succeeding in whatever it is they're doing as well, right? Doesn't mean it has to be equal winning or something like that. And that's when I was like, "Yeah, that's right. This, this podcast can't be about, like, results. It should be about elevating others, and about improvement, and how we can all win together."
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
And that's when it started to shift and I started to, like, be a little softer (laughs) and be less like, "Let's just get results," you know? And, um, and it was beautiful. So the- there's so much that happened in that first year of the experiment, where I started to, like, try something, and it, and it wasn't perfect the first 100 times. I, I just said, "How can I make it better every time? How can I listen to the feedback and make it better every time?" And, um, "And how can I find my voice in this process? You know, even if I'm not comfortable sharing my voice, how do I find it by practicing it?"
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
And after the first year, I remember, um, feeling like, "Man, I just really love this and enjoyed it." And so, 10 years later, here we are. I still love it, still enjoy it.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow. When you think back on literally probably thousands of people that you've
- 1:00:41 – 1:03:10
Out of hundreds, this is the interview guest that had the most impact.
- MRMel Robbins
interviewed-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... what's one interview that you reflect on the most?
- LHLewis Howes
I was gonna say Kobe because he was my favorite interview. But when you said this-Um, there was an interview the first year that I had with a guy named Chris Lee, who is the actual coach and trainer of the workshop I went to when I opened up for the first time.
- MRMel Robbins
Really?
- LHLewis Howes
He had such a massive impact on me from that experience, that I ended up hiring him as a coach for a couple years, just to, like, coach me personally.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
And I had him come on the show, and I had him put me through... Well, I guess he put me through it, but I asked about, like, I was single at the time, and I go, "How do you find the dream, like, partner?" And he put me through a guided meditation, where he had me close my eyes, and he, like, walked me through a scenario and a scene of my future self. And he said, "I want you to imagine waking up next to this person. I want you to imagine what they look like, what they sound like. I want you to imagine what you- when you open the windows, where you are in the world, what your view is. I want you to imagine the feeling, the experience you're having with this person." And, um, the reason I'm talking about that is because I said to myself during that, my eyes were closed, I was like... (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- LHLewis Howes
I don't know if this was weird or not, but I was like, "I wake up next to the woman of my dreams, and when I open my eyes, she looks at me and she's smiling at me every morning." And I remember just saying that. I don't know why that came to me, but I was like, "She- she looks at me, she's smiling at me, 'cause she's so grateful and happy that we're in this relationship together." And essentially eight years later, I'm in a relationship with a person that wakes up, that literally opens her eyes and looks at me and smiles. And this is no joke. It happens every day. She looks at me. She hugs me. Some days she wakes up crying, I'm not kidding, because she's just a grateful human being. Not just because of, like, I'm in her life, but she's just a happy person. And I dreamt of this. And so for me, that was a powerful, powerful episode, because I had two other relationships before her and after this conversation. Those, those things didn't happen, and I realize that it only happened the moment I started to fully heal
- 1:03:10 – 1:05:49
Lewis only found real love after doing this first.
- LHLewis Howes
a lot of the emotional things that I still wasn't ready to face in intimacy.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
So I healed one element, but not all the other elements. And it wasn't until I, uh, literally there was a pain in my chest for, still for years, from other things. Not the sexual abuse pain, 'cause I could talk about that freely and be at peace.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- LHLewis Howes
But in other things that I still wasn't willing to face, and it wasn't until I faced those things two years ago, there was a pain in my chest for many years that would come and go. It disintegrated after about five months of intensive therapy, integration healing. It finally disintegrated in my chest and I felt this ball of pain go throughout my body into, like, complete freedom. And it hasn't come back since.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow.
- LHLewis Howes
It took five months of intense reflection, exercises, practicing of healing the nervous system-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
... to where that went away.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
That is literally, a month or two later, I met her.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow.
- LHLewis Howes
And it's been a game changer ever since.
- MRMel Robbins
Have you talked publicly about what that thing was that you faced?
- LHLewis Howes
(sighs) I just started... I haven't really talked about it publicly. I just started kinda telling people that, 'cause I don't know if other people feel a pain in their chest. I don't know if, if you've ever felt, like, a ball that's kind of like this, not palpitations, but just kind of a nagging pain.
- MRMel Robbins
I think people feel the... I feel it more kind of, like, right above the stomach.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
That's sort of where my... And I know when it's coming, 'cause it hits the ankles first-
- LHLewis Howes
Interesting.
- MRMel Robbins
... and then this clenches. Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
Like wobbly legs or something? Like...
- MRMel Robbins
No, like I feel literally the t- when I get triggered, I literally feel it start.
- LHLewis Howes
Interesting. Then it comes to your stomach?
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah, but I think you wanna know why, it's because that's how the person approached me.
- LHLewis Howes
Oh, wow.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah, I... 'Cause it was, used to be the throat and the chest for me.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
You'd just feel like I couldn't speak.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- 1:05:49 – 1:07:03
What does it mean to no longer abandon yourself?
- LHLewis Howes
Maybe, but it was my inability to not abandon myself.
- MRMel Robbins
What does that mean for somebody who's never heard that term?
- LHLewis Howes
So, (sighs) it was my inability to, to not abandon myself in intimacy with one person, the person that I was choosing to be in a committed relationship with. 'Cause I wouldn't abandon myself in other areas.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
I would stand up for... I was like, "No, I'm not gonna do that."
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, were you like a nice guy doormat type in relationships?
- LHLewis Howes
I was more trying to buy peace. So whenever-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
... my relationship would, uh-
- MRMel Robbins
(sighs)
- LHLewis Howes
... in relationships in the past would try to, would be upset at me-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
"You didn't do this." "Uh, I'm sorry. Okay, I'll go do it now."
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
Whenever there was disturbance emotionally-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes, you went through-
- LHLewis Howes
... when the environment- or they were screaming at me or they were cold shoulder or they wouldn't speak to me-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
... I was like, "I don't like this feeling." And so I didn't know how to navigate my inner world when that would happen. I didn't know how to be peaceful under chaos emotionally, so I would do things to buy peace. I would say, "Okay, I'll stop doing this." Even though I don't want to stop doing something-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
... I'll stop doing it to make you feel comfortable.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
"Okay, I'll give in here."... "Okay, I'll (sighs) I'll come home five hours early. Okay, I won't go on that trip because you don't feel comfortable with me going alone."
- MRMel Robbins
See,
- 1:07:03 – 1:09:34
Most men struggle with this because they were never taught how.
- MRMel Robbins
I don't think people understand how much men struggle with this. That, that... No, I, I mean it. Like, you, you... This is why I said, you remind me a tremendous amount-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... in ways of Chris.
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Same thing. Like, just would shut down-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... and-
- LHLewis Howes
Or give in or whatever, yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Or give in and not capable of expressing what he needed because his experience as a kid was it didn't matter anyway.
- LHLewis Howes
Exactly. And a lot, a lot of times, you know, in general, a lot of men were never trained on how to navigate uncomfortable emotions through their highest selves. They would navigate it through their ego self, which is to defend, protect, and show that everything's okay. And that works in some cases, but not in every case. And I think I didn't have the tools, the training, the knowledge, the experience, the wisdom on how to navigate stressful emotions in love, in an intimate, loving relationship.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
I could do it in business, in sports, and other things.
- MRMel Robbins
It wasn't modeled for you?
- LHLewis Howes
Wasn't modeled for me.
- MRMel Robbins
When you were little.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah, it was constant... It was a constant low-level stress and, like, resentment from my parents of each other, which-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
... made me always like, "Ah, what's gonna happen?" Right? And they loved me, and I, and I knew they loved me, but it was... I knew they also didn't love each other.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
And so that was stressful. Um, and so I didn't know how to, how to be with a woman who was like, "You can't do this."
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- LHLewis Howes
Screaming at me, "Don't do this. I don't like when you do this. This is not okay." Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 'Cause what they are saying is, "You're not enough, and I don't accept you for who you are, Lewis."
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
So, I didn't accept myself for who I was. I, I knew, I knew I wasn't enough, that's how I thought. So I said, "I'm gonna do what's gonna make her feel like I'm enough for her."
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- LHLewis Howes
And after a year, two years, three years of doing that and just giving in and giving in and giving in, you fully lose yourself.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- LHLewis Howes
You lose all your... You, you lose who you are. And then you get resentful, you get frustrated, you get angry. So I lacked the emotional ability to say no, and "If you don't love me and accept me, and you wanna walk away, that's okay." And I lacked the emotional ability to, um, to just be okay with me walking away from something as well. And that's why when I met Martha, uh, which you've met her-
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, she-
- LHLewis Howes
... a couple times now.
- 1:09:34 – 1:11:13
The powerful words Lewis said at the start of his current relationship.
- LHLewis Howes
and I just told her, like, straight up, I was like, "This is my values. This is who I am, and I'm never gonna abandon myself for anyone."
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
"You, this, that, it doesn't matter. Like, I'm just never gonna abandon myself. That doesn't mean I'm not going to be a flexible human being and supportive in all these other ways, but I'm not gonna give up who I am to please one human being because they're not happy with me."
- MRMel Robbins
Dude, if you could sum up the greatness mindset, I think you just did. There is this quote that goes viral all the time. I have no idea who said it first, but it's that thing that when you, uh, put all your energy into trying to keep the peace with others, you create a war-
- LHLewis Howes
Oh.
- MRMel Robbins
... inside yourself.
- LHLewis Howes
That's good.
- MRMel Robbins
And that is just what you described.
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
That tension in your chest, and so many of you listening listen with it, or that pit in your stomach is the war-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... that Lewis just described, with yourself, because you're so much more focused and concerned with keeping the peace, making sure everybody else is okay. And until you invert that-
- LHLewis Howes
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and you focus on creating peace within yourself, that's it right there.
- LHLewis Howes
And this is the moment when it unlocks. I remember now exactly what happens when this, the pain went away, because I was working on... 'Cause I didn't feel free, right? And so for five months of therapy, going in every week, I was committed. I was like, "I'm gonna figure this out. And I'll go as long as it takes." Um-
- MRMel Robbins
You're like a truffle pig for healing.
- LHLewis Howes
I was like-
- MRMel Robbins
He's gotta root that-
- LHLewis Howes
Yeah, yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... thing out right there.
- LHLewis Howes
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
"I'm doing it, man."
- LHLewis Howes
And I mem-
- MRMel Robbins
"I'm not gonna stop until I've healed."
- LHLewis Howes
I mem-
- MRMel Robbins
I love that about you!
- LHLewis Howes
I remember-
- MRMel Robbins
I'm proud of you.
- LHLewis Howes
And I me- And healing's a journey. It's not an event that happens overnight.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- 1:11:13 – 1:14:22
The surprising place where Lewis found men who felt emotionally free.
- LHLewis Howes
many... 'Cause every time I would meet my coach, she'd say, "What's your intention?" Peace, clarity, freedom.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- LHLewis Howes
I didn't feel them. And so we were talking about what each one is. When do you not feel peace? When do you not feel clear? Freedom? I was like, "I've never felt free in my life." And a lot of it came down to modeling parents. They weren't free in their relationship.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
They both were resentful of being in the relationship. They both got married when they're 19. They didn't know any better.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
They had four kids. They were working their butts off just staying together. So I don't blame them, but they stayed together, not 'cause they wanted to, because they didn't know how to, how to navigate it as well. And so I saw them trapped. That was what it was for me. I saw them trapped, and I was afraid to be trapped. 'Cause I didn't wanna repeat the feeling of them being trapped and feeling miserable a lot of the time.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
And I was like, "I don't wanna create that in my life." But I didn't know how to stand up for myself. So, that was the thing. And she just kept looking at me. It was kind of like a Good Will Hunting moment. She was like, "You're not trapped. You're not trapped. You're not trapped. You're a free man. You're a free man. You're a free man." And I don't know what it... It was just, like, all the months of, like, the practicing, the integrating, the, the opening it back up, where it just kinda like (exhales) this, like, rush. It, like, finally connected to me that I am a free man, that I am not trapped. She was like, "You can walk away at any moment. You can walk away at any moment. You don't have to keep working in this relationship. Like, es- especially since you're not married, you don't have to walk a- you can walk away at any moment."
- MRMel Robbins
But even if you are married, you're free.
- LHLewis Howes
You can walk away. And that was the thing. I was like, "I'm so afraid to get married 'cause I don't wanna have the shame of getting divorced-"
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
"... or the pain that cau- that, that happens after divorce that so many people go through."
- MRMel Robbins
Well, it's so interesting you're so focused on not-... feeling trapped that you actually trapped yourself.
- LHLewis Howes
100%. And it's so funny because I went to a prison almost every week for hor- four and a half years, and I watched men who were trapped behind bars. Some of them were emotionally free. Some of them were there, but I saw them free men. Like, they were in a state of complete peace, not all of them, but some of them had so much love in their hearts, were very kind and generous. They had their families around, and they were free emotionally, but they just did something that put them in there physically.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- LHLewis Howes
And I realized for so long that I was trapped emotionally, but free physically, and I didn't know how to break free. And that was the thing where I was like, "I'm just sick and tired of feeling this pain. I'm sick and tired of repeating the pattern-"
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- LHLewis Howes
"...where I'm the common denominator in all these relationships, choosing them, staying in them, and not standing up for myself." So, that was a massive game-changer for me, was investing in emotional coaching, showing up consistently when I didn't want to, and doing the work. And I think a lot of us will get business coaches, career coaches, health coaches, but the emotional game is the game that most of us don't know how to master, and yet, we s- we won't invest in coaching or find support. And I just think it's so crucial.
Episode duration: 1:18:24
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