The Mel Robbins PodcastHow to Master Any Conversation, Communicate With Confidence, and Deal With Difficult People
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
70 min read · 14,053 words- 0:00 – 11:14
Introduction
- OPOz Pearlman
Open your eyes. I've written down one word. I can't change it. What was the word out of your entire book, The Let Them Theory? You go to any page, circle any word, what was that word?
- MRMel Robbins
Want.
- OPOz Pearlman
Want is what I wrote down.
- MRMel Robbins
That's incredible. That's the word.
- OPOz Pearlman
That's the word.
- MRMel Robbins
That's what a mentalist does. Today, you and I are sitting down with the top mentalist in the world, Oz Pearlman. What exactly do you do for a living?
- OPOz Pearlman
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
'Cause you hear the word mentalist, I'm thinking, oh, Oz reads minds. Is that what a mentalist does?
- OPOz Pearlman
I'm creating the illusion of reading your mind, and I've spent 30 years learning how to do that. But I will tell you the skills that you will wanna use, which is how do you walk into a room and immediately command attention? I want this to be something that, 10 minutes after this episode, you will start using, and 10 years from now, you will still be doing on a daily basis. A few years ago, performed a show where the president, Barack Obama, was speaking.
- MRMel Robbins
And were you gonna do a trick on Barack Obama?
- OPOz Pearlman
I hope so, but I don't know if that's going to happen. So what I am told is that I'm performing later in the night. He's gonna be doing an opening session, and so he's going on before me, and he's not staying. I never believe that when somebody says... When somebody says it's not happening, or no, I think not yet. I didn't know if I'd have any time with him, so if I am, I wanna make it count. What do I do? Here's what I did. I believed in myself that 100%, this is the perfect line. He turns to me right when we shake hands. I lock eyes with the President, and I say [beep] . Right away, I see in his eyes, I see in his eyes-
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- OPOz Pearlman
You don't have to be a mentalist. Confusion. And I said to pick a page with some sort of meaning to you, not random.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- OPOz Pearlman
The page has three digits, doesn't it?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- OPOz Pearlman
You went to page 217.
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- OPOz Pearlman
Jody. Is it Jody?
- MRMel Robbins
It is Jody. [laughs] Oh my God. It's Jody. That's absolutely incredible. Hey, it's Mel, and before we get into this episode, my team was showing me 57% of you who watch The Mel Robbins Podcast here on YouTube are not subscribed yet. Could you do me a quick favor? Just hit subscribe so that you don't miss any of the episodes that we post here on YouTube. It lets me know you're enjoying the guests and the content that we're bringing you, because I wanna make sure you don't miss a thing, and I'm so glad you're here for this episode, 'cause this is a really good one. All right, let's dive in. Oz Pearlman, welcome to The Mel Robbins Podcast.
- OPOz Pearlman
Thank you for having me on. What an honor.
- MRMel Robbins
What an honor. The last time I saw you, we were both dressed in black tie on the red carpet at the Golden Globes, and we had just booked you to do this interview.
- OPOz Pearlman
Timing is everything in life.
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- OPOz Pearlman
Am I right? It was serendipitous. We are much more comfortably dressed this time around, and, uh, yeah, I'm excited to be here.
- MRMel Robbins
Oz, one of the many reasons why I was so excited to be able to sit down and learn from you today is I believe that you have so many amazing and surprising things to share about success, living a meaningful life, handling difficult situations, and creating opportunity and success for yourself. And so I would love to hear you just speak directly to the person who's with us right now, listening or watching, and share a little bit about what might change about their life or their mindset or what's possible if they truly lean in and take to heart everything that you're about to share with us from your remarkable career and life.
- OPOz Pearlman
I think all of us are going after the same things, right? Happiness, health, living a successful and fulfilling life, and none of that occurs in a vacuum. It all has to do with your interactions with the people around you, your family, your friends. Within your work and professional life, your clients, your colleagues. I spent 30 years learning the way people think and how to interact with them. As an entertainer, my job is to get inside your head and create memorable moments of wow and awe. What I wanna do is give you that ability in your life. How do you become the most memorable person in every room you walk into? How do you gain that confidence quickly? How do you overcome the fear of rejection that I think holds us back both in our personal and professional lives? I've experienced it. What can you do to fast-track that? And lastly, how do we have more stimulating conversations and connections with the people around us?
- MRMel Robbins
So Oz, how would you even describe what you do?
- OPOz Pearlman
So a mentalist is a form of a magician. I wanna tell you what I'm not. I am not psychic. I do not have supernatural powers. I cannot talk to the dead. When people ask me, "What is it that you're performing?" They are tricks. That is the truth. It appears to be mind reading, but that's the illusion I'm trying to create in my audience, all of it with the goal of creating these memorable moments that you leave amazed and telling everyone else around you what you experienced. I have figured out the way people think. I've studied it for decades, and I know how to influence them and guide them in certain directions, and I know how to get information from you that you simply don't know how I'm getting. And here's the really important part for you listening to this, is that magic is such a focused discipline of look how great I am. Shine the spotlight on me. Look at me. Somebody told me this once, and they said to me, "Everybody is living a movie, and you're the star of your movie. Everyone else is supporting characters. Some people are extras." The more that you can find a way to make other people you interact with feel like they're also the star of your movie-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm
- 11:14 – 15:17
How to Make a Great First Impression Instantly
- OPOz Pearlman
How do you walk into that room and become the most memorable person in it so that when you leave, everyone is talking about you? What's at the core is how you make people feel. There's other people that can do these tricks, I assure you, but it's how do people leave my show, how do people leave an interaction with you and feel? And think about how many times you've been to a party and you've left and you've said, "Did you meet that one person?" You go, "Chris, did you meet them? I love them." Why did you love them? Why did you connect with them in such a meaningful way when you maybe ma- met 20 or 30 other people? How do you analyze what made them so interesting?
- MRMel Robbins
Well, it's typically because I'm laughing, and they're a great storyteller, and it's like... Or we have a lot of connections.
- OPOz Pearlman
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
Or they, uh, uh- I don't know, like, you can go deeper in the conversation because you're talking about something that's a shared interest
- OPOz Pearlman
Right. They went beyond the surface, and they made you feel like you were the most interesting person. Almost every time you realize it, it's not just somebody who's constantly talking about themselves. It's them finding a way to bring things out of you that you haven't before. So one of the big ones is I mentioned autopilot. I think so many of us, when we meet new people, we're right away scared. What am I gonna ask them? What am I gonna talk about? And you start second-guessing yourself.
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- OPOz Pearlman
I think the most important thing is the first three questions you wanna ask that person, don't, because that's what everyone else asks.
- MRMel Robbins
What are the first three questions?
- OPOz Pearlman
So the dreadful ones. Where are you from? W- you know, w- what do you do for a living? All of the questions they've been asked a thousand times before, their brain goes into autopilot. There's a heuristic in their brain that says, "I'm gonna answer these questions." I would do a little more sleuthing below the surface, which is something where you, you notice something about them. People love a compliment. "Those glasses are so unique. I'm so curious, where did you get them, and what made you get those instead of another one?" And so now we get to tell you something about a choice we made-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm
- OPOz Pearlman
... that most people haven't thought to ask us. Also, you've complimented us, which is a nice feeling right from the jump. So it should be genuine, but have a question that branches out and that hopefully somebody else hasn't asked before.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, you know what I love about that just one technique, which I wanna make sure as you're listening or watching, you grab it and you employ it, is that you turned a compliment into a question.
- OPOz Pearlman
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
'Cause a lot of us are practicing the art of learning how to speak to each other again, so we might be standing in line with somebody and go, "Oh, I love those socks," but I didn't ask you a question.
- OPOz Pearlman
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
"Those socks are crazy amazing. What made you wanna put those on this morning?"
- OPOz Pearlman
That's a great question. Right? Because now we branch, and I go, "You wouldn't believe it. My son got me these last year for Father's Day." And now what's happening? Percolating, dopamine, I'm feeling good. Wow, what an interesting person. They asked me this question. And now where do you go from there? You've opened up new branches of a conversation that instantly would have been shut down otherwise. If you have to go to one of those dreadful first three of, "What does somebody do for a living," put a different spin on it. Again, my tricks have different packaging. I could do this trick, and I could have just asked you to pick a playing card. You put it back. I find it. Eight of diamonds. Would it have had the same appeal as a word from your book and a page that has meaning, which I'm gonna get to later? It wouldn't, because the story differs.
- MRMel Robbins
So for the, uh, interaction where you're at a networking meeting-
- OPOz Pearlman
Yep
- MRMel Robbins
... and you say, "Don't just do the, 'Hey, so what do you do for a living?'" What is the twist that you recommend that allows you to be more interesting?
- OPOz Pearlman
I think that I would say I would open with how you feel, because you'd be shocked at how often other people feel the same way, which is, "I get so nervous at these. I don't know what to say, but you seem so friendly. Can you tell me one funny thing you did at one of these before?" Just again, open up a story. Never ask a yes or no question-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm
- OPOz Pearlman
... or a question that ends with a period. Because what you're doing then is you're allowing people to close doors. I wanna open a door that leads to a room with more doors.
- 15:17 – 27:56
How to Meet New People and Start Better Conversations
- MRMel Robbins
We are getting so many people writing in asking for specific advice about, how do I actually talk to people that I don't know, and especially in a professional setting.
- OPOz Pearlman
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
So is there something you can give as a recommendation-
- OPOz Pearlman
Yes
- MRMel Robbins
... to just try and experiment with? 'Cause I think for a lot of people that, uh, it doesn't come naturally.
- OPOz Pearlman
Sure. So let's do, let's break this down into two, two channels.
- MRMel Robbins
Great.
- OPOz Pearlman
Like, two little options.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- OPOz Pearlman
Option one, you can prepare. You know someone you might be meeting. You get to do homework. It's not cheating. It's called being prepared. So if you can do that, and I wanna give you an example from my life-
- MRMel Robbins
Okay
- OPOz Pearlman
... that was pivotal.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- OPOz Pearlman
Which is I, a few years ago, performed a show where the President, President Barack Obama, was speaking.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, how nervous were you?
- OPOz Pearlman
Uh, I don't think I was that nervous, because I like to convert nervousness into preparation.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- OPOz Pearlman
So in this situation, it's not that I'm flaunting or trying to be showy. I take what you would describe as nerves and say, "I'm gonna prepare."
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- OPOz Pearlman
I'm nervous if I didn't prepare. If I-
- MRMel Robbins
And were you gonna do a trick on President-
- OPOz Pearlman
I hope so, but-
- MRMel Robbins
... Barack Obama?
- OPOz Pearlman
... I don't know if that's going to happen. So my-
- MRMel Robbins
Okay
- OPOz Pearlman
... what I'm told is that I'm performing later in the night. He's gonna be doing an opening session, and so he's going on before me, and he's not staying, is what I was told.
- MRMel Robbins
Got it.
- OPOz Pearlman
I never believe that when somebody says. When somebody says it's not happening, or no, I think not yet. So the same way you have let them, I have no not yet.
- MRMel Robbins
Love it.
- OPOz Pearlman
And I have another theory which I wanna tell you, which I call make them. So this is where instead of let them, I think that make them is what I'm all about. It's what my last 20 years of my life have been, because I'm not waiting for gatekeepers to tell me that you're gonna be big as a mentalist. This is a category that didn't really exist.
- 27:56 – 33:52
How to Handle Rejection and Do Things You Dread
- OPOz Pearlman
crushes you. And so what I learned at that age, and I think that it's helped me throughout my whole life, it's a form of resilience, is I learned how to overcome not just rejection, the pain of rejection, but what h- what happens over time is you have a fear of rejection. I would argue that most of those people that you're mentioning aren't even feeling rejection. They fear the rejection so much that it stops them dead in their tracks before trying. And so here's the cheat code.
- MRMel Robbins
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- OPOz Pearlman
I wanna give you how to fast-forward and cheat so you don't have that fear of rejection, 'cause this is what I knew when I was 14 years old, and I did it as a m- as a way, and it was selfish, because I couldn't fail. I couldn't leave that restaurant and just be like, "I'm not doing this," 'cause I wanted to keep getting magic tricks. I, I just, I'm like, "I gotta buy more tricks, Mel, so I can't let these other people- Be in charge of my future because they're hurting my feelings. So I can't explain to you how I fell upon this, but I realized that I need to separate myself, this part of your psyche that takes the hurt and feels it, and separate it from this other person. I had this paradigm shift where I go, "They don't know me. That person does not know me. I'm Oz Pearlman. I- they don't know me. They know the guy who just came up to them and did tricks," and I called him Oz the Magician in my mind. I created this split personality-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- OPOz Pearlman
... where all of the anger, chaos, frustration, hurt got put on this other person, where I could deflect that responsibility and go, "They don't know me. I'm not hurt when I leave that table." I said, "Thank you very much, guys. I'll see if I can come back later. Appreciate you," and I had none of that pain because I separated myself, and it's almost like having an agent, where your agent gets to have the calls, where they go, "I don't wanna do this negotiation," or, "I don't wanna talk to that person about this thing." You have an agent that handles it. I became my own agent, and somehow I created a set in my mind where I said, "I no longer feel the pain of you rejecting me because you're not rejecting me."
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- OPOz Pearlman
"You're rejecting this part of me, and you don't know the real me." I realized that if I give away 60 business cards in a night, in the next year, I quantified it, one or two of those people will call me for their kid's birthday party or for some other party.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- OPOz Pearlman
One or two of them will call me. So rather than focus on 58 nos, every no gets me closer to a yes. So I want you to start seeing it that way in your mind. Right now, you're so scared to do it. You're so scared to do something. You're dreading it. Five Second Rule, I remember where I got that one.
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- OPOz Pearlman
Right? I get out of bed, I wanna go for a run at 5:30 AM, I'm so groggy. I go, "Houston, we have liftoff, five, four, three, two, one," I get up. So that works for me, but I'm gonna give you a tag to your Five Second Rule.
- MRMel Robbins
Please.
- OPOz Pearlman
What's my language of dread? Confrontation. I hate confrontation, Mel. Like, if I have to talk to the guy who did our landscaping and argue about the fact that the trees weren't pruned and I gotta argue about money, I hate that. I will defer it and move it in my calendar for three days. If I have an argument with my sister, I don't wanna talk, I don't wanna... So how do I deal with this? Here's what we do. Are you ready?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- OPOz Pearlman
You've got a phone, I've got a phone. Right before you do it, we're about to employ the Five Second Rule. In my mind, I ask myself, how, how much am I dreading this on a scale of one to 10? It's a nine. I don't wanna do this at all. I put an alarm for 24 hours from today, and I write, "Dread talking to landscaper," as my thing. Took me f- three seconds to do that. Right then, Five Second Rule, I make the call. I rip the Band-Aid, I do it, no matter what. I rip the Band-Aid, I do it, I get it over with. Force yourself to do it. Here's what's gonna happen. The next day, the alarm's gonna go off. If you even remember what this was a day later, ask yourself at that moment, what do I register the dread that it was telling the landscaper? It's a two. It's a one, if I even remember it. What happened? Learn from my job. My job is to deceive you in order to entertain you. I have studied the way people think for upwards of 29 years. The human mind is wired where right now, all you did, nothing happened. You feel better. Why? Time elapsed, nothing else. Time went by. What if you could fast-forward those 24 hours and feel the one or two now? I call it fast-forward your feelings. I literally, I say to myself, "I wanna feel the way I do now 24 hours ago before I do it," and if you do this two or three times, you will realize all it is is perception. All that happened is perception. You are in charge of your mind. So right before I make that call, I go, "I'm gonna feel a two now, because in a day, I'm not even gonna remember this, so you know what? Before I count five, four, three, I'm gonna feel the same way I do in 24 hours now 'cause I so know that that's how it's gonna be. I feel better now. Let's make this call and get it over with." I've just tricked my mind and traveled into the future knowing this is how I will feel.
- MRMel Robbins
I love this, and I wanna make sure that as you're listening or watching, you actually got the step-by-step process, 'cause I do think it's genius. You have a phone call to make. You've paid somebody to do
- 33:52 – 36:03
How to Beat Procrastination and Take Action Fast
- MRMel Robbins
something. They didn't do the job right.
- OPOz Pearlman
Or a family conversation.
- MRMel Robbins
Or a family, but even just, like, the, the neutral one that you gave of-
- OPOz Pearlman
Yep
- MRMel Robbins
... oh, my God, I paid and it didn't get done right, now I gotta call the person and they're gonna be a this and a that, and so we've all felt that, and what you're saying is you set an alarm in your phone that says-
- OPOz Pearlman
24 hours from now
- MRMel Robbins
... 24 hours from this moment, dread calling landscaper.
- OPOz Pearlman
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
And then, five, four, three, two, one, you call the landscaper.
- OPOz Pearlman
Must. You rip the Band-Aid.
- MRMel Robbins
You must-
- OPOz Pearlman
You do it now
- MRMel Robbins
... do it now. You get it over with. It goes however it goes. 24 hours later, you've even forgotten about the call, and the alarm goes off, and now the fact that you are being reminded that you dreaded this so much and it's already in the past, you're now training yourself in that moment to reflect on the fact that it wasn't that bad.
- OPOz Pearlman
Right, which your mind is programmed to do.
- MRMel Robbins
Here's what I think is genius about this, and I'm going to try this, and the reason why I think this is genius is because for the last 16 years, I have been counting five, four, three, two, one to get out of bed. I still hate getting out of bed, but I think if I were to set the alarm, which I'm gonna do tomorrow morning, and I then reflect the next morning on the fact that it wasn't so bad, I might actually train myself not to feel the dread in the morning versus just having to constantly push myself through it. This is fascinating.
- OPOz Pearlman
Dread is associated with starting, that the first step is far harder than the 10th, and so you just set things aside. Who's guilty of this? I move it to my calendar tomorrow. I move it to my calendar the next day. Let's just move it to next week. Let's keep moving things that have no end timelines, right? Creativity requires a deadline. Certain things that are open-ended never end because I never wanna do them. How many of us have those things that we'll do one day, right? When's that day going to come? And so for me, with a lot of these things, unless they're forced upon me, which could be that I disappoint others eventually and they get mad at me and say, "Well, when are you gonna do that thing? The time is now," I will keep pushing the end line and when it takes place, and so I had to do this as a survival mechanism because that dread-
- 36:03 – 44:01
Why the First 10 Seconds of Meeting Someone Matter Most
- OPOz Pearlman
... feels worse than doing the thing
- MRMel Robbins
I wanna go deeper, because one of the other things that you say is that the first 10 seconds-
- OPOz Pearlman
Yep
- MRMel Robbins
... that you spend with someone are critical. What is happening in those first 10 seconds, and what should you be taking note of?
- OPOz Pearlman
So can I throw it back to the restaurant days? Because that-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes
- OPOz Pearlman
... changed my life.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- OPOz Pearlman
It truly, when you look at me now, when I approached a table-
- MRMel Robbins
Yep
- OPOz Pearlman
... I started noticing patterns, and that's what we do throughout life. We notice patterns when we behave with other people, how do we interact, and what do those patterns yield, right? This does well, let's do it again.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- OPOz Pearlman
I noticed that if I approached people, right away, right when s- people see you, within the first second, there's so many judgments that occur. Now, in the situation I had specifically of walking up to you at a table, right away they ask themselves all of these questions. "Who is this guy? What's he doing here? Does he work here? What's he... Oh, my God-
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- OPOz Pearlman
... he's got a deck of cards. Is he a magician? Is he any good? Is he gonna leave?" I- it, like, right-
- MRMel Robbins
Is he gonna embarrass me?
- OPOz Pearlman
That was, "Is he gonna embarrass me? Does he need money? Oh, my God, do I have money?" All of those questions occurred in a split second. My job wasn't just to entertain you. My job was to diffuse tension and to answer every one of those questions, put a check mark next to them, as quickly as possible, in as few words and actions as possible, and then flip the power dynamic. You now want me to not leave. Now I'm in charge of your attention. I'm holding it in the palm of my hand-
- MRMel Robbins
How did you do that?
- OPOz Pearlman
... in a very different way. So right away I noticed a few patterns. When you approach somebody head-on, this is so silly, and you wanna know about body language reading, try this today, five minutes after this. If you approach someone head-on, we are hardwired to feel danger when someone comes directly at you. I would approach tables at an angle. So when I walk up to you, notice I walk up and approach at an angle with one eye showing, not two. It feels from a, like, just from a Pavlovian response of fight or flight, what's, what is, you feel less danger. I immediately put a time constraint in place, because the lingering person who walks up to you, you don't know when they're gonna go.
- MRMel Robbins
So true.
- OPOz Pearlman
They're close talking. "Oh, my God, how long is this conversation gonna be?" If I walk up to you and say, "I only have 30 seconds," right away I've taken away so many of the parts of tension that you had. Who is this? Are they gonna stay? What are they doing?
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- OPOz Pearlman
Is this gonna be long? And then right away I know that you don't know if I work there. You don't know who I am. Am I asking you for money? Right away I knew that money and getting a tip makes you awkward. I see people searching, "Honey, do you have money? Do you..." That, so I would say to you, "Have you heard what's going on tonight? This is your lucky night." So right away I've asked a question that has no yes or no.
- MRMel Robbins
Uh-huh.
- OPOz Pearlman
Because no one says, "No, I don't like lucky nights."
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- OPOz Pearlman
I go, "The owner has me here as a special treat for all of you, and I'm gonna show you the most amazing thing you've seen this week." So I haven't ever given you a question you can say no to, because when I used to walk up to you with a deck of cards, "Who wants to see a trick?" "Uh, no thanks, kid." I've allowed you to stop me. So I kept cutting down the amount of words, same way a great comedian makes a premise short and the punchline fast, to check every box so that by the time I walked up to you, you're intrigued.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- OPOz Pearlman
You're interested. You know I work there. You know the owner, social currency, has blessed you with being here. I'm here as a treat from the owner. I'm not asking you for money. I don't want money. And so now you're loose, you're relaxed, and now, keep in mind, I've opened the door, but you better deliver. So what I've done is I've taken away all the tension, but I better have a great trick as an opener.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes, you better.
- 44:01 – 52:04
How to Remember Names and Never Forget Someone Again
- OPOz Pearlman
Right. It's, it's, it's changing your mindset in a way.
- MRMel Robbins
You know, one of the things, Oz, that you're exceptional at is remembering people's names, and I would love to have you speak a little bit about why is this an important skill to develop in yourself, and what happens in the other person's brain when they hear their name?
- OPOz Pearlman
So our name from the time we're young is something special to us, right? And if somebody forgets your name, make no mistake about it, it hurts a little bit. There's a sting to the fact that you weren't as important. Now, maybe your memory was faulty, maybe it was all... But i- if you forget someone's name, no matter what you think, there's, it, it's not a good thing. And we've all felt it. We've all done it. We've been on the receiving side and the giving side. So most of us make a huge mistake in thinking, they'll say to me, "I'm so bad at remembering names. Ugh, how can you show me? You're so good at it." I'm going to tell you that the main culprit in forgetting people's names has nothing to do with your memory. It's that you never even knew the name to begin with. So most people, when they think they've forgotten a name, they never imprinted it on their mind, and the reason is when the person told you their name, you didn't listen. That's literally, it's the simplest step. It's so silly, you're not gonna believe me. I have a set of three directions that I have stolen from shampoo bottles, but I call it the lather, rinse, repeat of shampoo bottles, which what do you do with shampoo? Everybody knows. Put it in, lather, smells good, rinse, clean hair, repeat, we gotta sell more product. I repurposed it. I call it listen, repeat, reply.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- OPOz Pearlman
Please say it again. Listen, repeat, reply.
- MRMel Robbins
Listen, repeat, reply.
- OPOz Pearlman
I want this to be something that 10 minutes after this episode you will start using, and 10 years from now you will still be doing on a daily basis. Listen, repeat, reply. You will not forget a name again if you follow these directions. I don't care what your memory's like. The listen is the simplest by far, but for a lot of us it's the hardest. When you meet someone, listen to their name. I know it sounds so simple, but what does that mean? It means quiet your mind. Because at that moment, most of us are thinking a bunch of things. The big ones are, do I know this person already? What am I gonna say next? Oh my God, did I feed my dog this morning? Did I...? X, Y, Z, a million thoughts are going through your head-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah
- OPOz Pearlman
... and our brains are not good at reading and writing at the same time. They do one of them really well at best. So right when I meet someone, I clear my mind and I say, "What's your name? Tracy?" And I immediately repeat. Listen, repeat. I'm going to repeat their name a minimum of twice immediately after hearing it. Like I met the person doing sound downstairs. There was no name tag. I go, "Caroline?" And I go, "Is that, did I say it right? Is it Caroline?" So right away I'm gonna repeat the name twice. You right then have about a 90% less chance of forgetting that name in the next 15 seconds. We're gonna go beyond the 15, but in those 15 seconds it will not go away. Listen, repeat. The last one really ensures that it is solidified in your mind. Reply. Say something back that hooks it in your memory. Here are the three that I like to use. First, a compliment. A compliment. Right away, I go, "Mel, I love your glasses. Mel, where did you get those?" So it does two things. One, people like to hear compliments. Two, it's a visual. So now you're Mel with the glasses in my mind.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- OPOz Pearlman
Right? I've connected to something visual that I see. I've said your name more than once. Next one, how do you spell the name? Now, for, for a lot of names, you'd be shocked. If it's John, I go, "Are you John with an H or you're John with no H?" And I go, "John with the H, that's the right way to spell it." I've now said the name four times. Right? You're going to remember John with the H. You can do that with Tracy. You can do that with Michelle. One L or two Ls? I go, "Michelle with two Ls? I know so many of you. The Michelle with one L."
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- OPOz Pearlman
You, you, you make a joke. You make something. Third, if you can connect it to somebody you already know.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- OPOz Pearlman
So if, if I meet somebody and the guy's name is Evan, I go, "It's so funny, Evan." I go, "We've got a great music teacher named Evan. He's a great guy." So anything you can do to connect it with an existing memory, now that's Evan, and you see it next to this other person, Evan. This is not a memory palace. This is not a mnemonic. I'm not gonna... I'm telling you- 10 minutes from you hearing these words, try this. Try it three times today, and you will be doing this for the rest of your life. Listen, repeat, reply
- MRMel Robbins
Why is it so important to develop this as a skill?
- OPOz Pearlman
I have noticed time and again that people who are genuine, people that are authentic, people that look you in the eyes, care about you in that moment, make you feel seen, heard, and understood, they are going to go so much further in life than everyone else that are gonna say please, that are gonna say thank you, that are gonna do these things. You know, I don't think the nice guy ends last. I think that those little wins accumulate over time, and you ask me, "How did you achieve success?" By doing these things day in, day out, small little bits, those people will become your champions. Those people who you thought nothing of, and you knew their name, and you took the time to write down notes afterwards about their children or what was important to them, and you know that information a month or a year or a decade later, they remember you.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- OPOz Pearlman
They talk about you. Memorable moments. And they will champion you and elevate you in your happiness, in your success, in your life.
- MRMel Robbins
You just mentioned taking notes, and you and I share something in common, which is this habit of keeping notes once you meet someone. So-
- OPOz Pearlman
Right
- MRMel Robbins
... share a little bit about this habit.
- OPOz Pearlman
So I find that taking notes, I did it as a matter of necessity because I have a lot of clients that book me for events, and they'll book me again and again. And so what happens is, it's very awkward for me because we have an asymmetrical interaction.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- OPOz Pearlman
Which means that sometimes I do things that people will remember and talk about for the rest of their life.
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- OPOz Pearlman
I'm not trying to brag, but that's my job. That's what I try to do, create those moments. And that, for lack of a better term, I will have done that to several thousand other people in between the time we last met.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- OPOz Pearlman
So it's not that they don't mean a lot to me, it's that that will blend in with other ones because contrary to popular opinion, I am not a memory expert. I use my memory effectively in certain ways, and the beautiful part is I can cheat when it comes to my memory. I can write notes down. So what I realized is I didn't wanna do a show again, see someone there, and have forgotten this amazing experience I gave them.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- 52:04 – 1:06:38
How to Tell If Someone Is Lying: Body Language and Hidden Cues
- MRMel Robbins
people are floored. You also say that every one of us has a built-in BS detector.
- OPOz Pearlman
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
How can you use it to tell when somebody's lying to you?
- OPOz Pearlman
I have seen so many instances where my first instinct was correct. Now, not every time, but enough statistically that it's a statistical advantage. I would tell most people that if you can really be honest with yourself with what you believed at the first moment, "The kids are lying to me right now." Well, maybe this... Nope, I bet you they were lying. I bet you more often than not, they were. That person you went on a first date with, something doesn't feel right, it's probably not gonna be right four or five or six dates from now. There's so much in your instincts that you will talk yourself out of, and I've learned to have that voice that says not to. I don't listen to it.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, you know, it's interesting. I love this because I feel the same about myself, that intuition, another way to think about it, is pattern recognition.
- OPOz Pearlman
That's all it is.
- MRMel Robbins
That's all that is.
- OPOz Pearlman
It's iterating on pattern recognition.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes. And if you have this intuition or this sixth sense, it means your mind, body, and spirit is recognizing a pattern. And to me, even if you catch it wrong and you make a decision and you realize the, like, pattern recognition was wrong, making the decision and then gathering the data adjusts the patterns that you spot.
- OPOz Pearlman
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
And so to me, there is no other way than to act on your intuition and the pattern recognition and the sixth sense that you have, because that's the only thing that hones it. Because you need both the right calls and the wrong calls to adjust the settings to recognize the right patterns. Like, I totally agree with you.
- OPOz Pearlman
Some of the sixth sense is stuff that's subconscious that you don't realize.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- OPOz Pearlman
So I can give you great examples of BS detection with people you know, which is when they vary from their benchmarks. So a- again, this isn't a foolproof and it's not infallible, so I don't wanna tell people something that you're gonna then say, "Oh, it didn't work," but it works more often than it doesn't.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- OPOz Pearlman
Which again, is my barometer for success in many ways. I have no way to tell you 100%, "Here's where someone's eyes look if they're lying." There's different things that vary how people behave, but here's the key. People will change the amount of details, the speed with which they speak, the cadence with which they speak when they lie. You can normally detect when people that you know are lying because they change from what they normally do.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- OPOz Pearlman
So let me explain to you. I can't tell you one or the other. Most of us will add unnecessary details when we lie. We'll add more details that we don't need to embellish. You know the person who calls in and goes, "I got a fever of 104, and oh, my God," and this and that. You didn't need all that. If you were really sick, do you know what you would've said? You'd have said, "I'm really not feeling well. I can't make it today." All of the embellishment is almost always a lie, unless you're a person who embellishes all the time. And now if you just say to me, "I'm not feeling well," I know you're lying. So what I would describe is notice people's patterns when they tell the truth. If you know them well, you've literally taken in thousands and thousands of data points of them doing this. You just haven't consciously studied what they do.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- OPOz Pearlman
I do. And then see what it feels like when you're not sure if they're lying, and you'll be able to tell almost always it's different.
- MRMel Robbins
I would love to switch gears and talk about difficult people. So let's say that the person who is listening or watching right now is dealing with somebody who is really challenging, whether it's a difficult coworker, or maybe it is a rude customer, or somebody that is, like, defensive. Maybe it's even your partner. What do you do in those moments where things get tense or there's a lot of friction? What's the best way to handle these situations?
- OPOz Pearlman
So for me in my professional environment, hecklers are an issue, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- OPOz Pearlman
Somebody who wants to figure you out. And this can go down a few different paths or channels. One is analyzing what is at the core their motivation for doing this. So for a lot of people, the motivation is attention. They want attention. You have it, and there is an insecurity playing out where they feel lesser than.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- OPOz Pearlman
Also, I have a profession that relies on deception at its core. At the end of it, I don't tell you how I did it. So it can be presented as an intellectual challenge for some people where they say, "You know something I don't, therefore, I feel insecure. I feel threatened by you, so I wanna figure out how you did it." So in that moment, if I know what they want is attention, I wanna give them that attention, and if that means that I can give them a peek behind the curtain, for some people, they wanna feel intelligent. They wanna feel they've caught me. So what can I do? Why don't I let them feel like they caught me, but I'll let them feel like they caught me on something simple. I'll let them behind the curtain. I'll go, "You know how this works. Let me show you something." And I bring them in, and I include them, and they feel like, "Wow, I've now gotten what I wanted, that spotlight, that shine. He is noticing me." But now we've already built that rapport. So again, this is how I do it in my life. But who are the hecklers in your life? Who are the people that don't believe in you, that are talking down to you, that are telling you, "Hey, stay in your lane," you know, "Don't bite off more than you can chew," certain people that are bringing you down with their energy.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- OPOz Pearlman
Right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- OPOz Pearlman
I think that in many instances you have to look at what's motivating them, and I think so much of the time it's a mirror for their insecurities. It's the compare and despair mentality, which is what they're saying to you is what they actually feel about themselves. And so know that where they're coming from is from a position of they're insecure about that. Now, you're not gonna change who people are. Let them, obviously. So if somebody is bringing you down, I think that me knowing where their motivation is coming from and knowing that they don't really wanna bring me down, they feel down. That's where it's coming from. If I'm defusing a heckler whose energy is going above mine, never try to overcome them. Anger is not going to best in that situation. You're in a fight with a, with, like, a family member, and you're getting elevated, and you're about to say something you can't take back, pause. Breathe. Write it in email, draft it, and don't send it. Put an alarm for 48 hours, see if you still feel that strongly and if you wanna send it again. I've deleted pretty much every one of those emails I've ever drafted because some things you can't take back.
Episode duration: 1:06:42
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