How to Stop Being Overlooked & Start Getting What You Want With Top Business School Professor

1. 0:00 – 8:05

   Meet the Guest

   1. MRMel Robbins0:00

      [upbeat music] Professor Marina Cooley, welcome to The Mel Robbins Podcast.

   2. MCMarina Cooley0:08

      Thank you for having me. I'm, like, delighted to be here.

   3. MRMel Robbins0:11

      Could you share what might be different about my life if I take everything to heart that you are about to teach me today, and I apply it as soon as I'm done listening to you?

   4. MCMarina Cooley0:24

      If you take everything we talk about today, you'll be able to amplify anything that you want in your life. So, whether you wanna be a chef or an author, or you wanna change careers, or you want that VP title, or you wanna be an entrepreneur, all of that is available to you if you are willing to put yourself out there and get over your cringe and build those dreams out loud. And there has never been an easier and more accessible time to do that, so do not for a moment think that it is too late.

   5. MRMel Robbins0:57

      And what does dream out loud mean?

   6. MCMarina Cooley0:59

      It means that you're willing to know what you want and to ask for it.

   7. MRMel Robbins1:03

      Oh. Which part of it do you think stops most people, knowing what you want or being willing to ask for it?

   8. MCMarina Cooley1:09

      Both. We are so busy, and there's so much information coming at us, that it can be really hard to discern what you want.

   9. MRMel Robbins1:15

      Yeah.

   10. MCMarina Cooley1:16

       And then if you are lucky enough to find out what you want, you are then scared about putting yourself out there and not getting it, and rejection feels really bad. So both of those things.

   11. MRMel Robbins1:27

       Yes, it's so true. Can you explain your background? You teach this wildly popular class, and I feel like I am in day one, and I was lucky enough to get one of the seats in your class. So tell us a little bit about your background and what you teach.

   12. MCMarina Cooley1:44

       Okay, I'm gonna start with the background because if you've ever heard the expression, um, a cat has nine lives-

   13. MRMel Robbins1:49

       Uh-huh

   14. MCMarina Cooley1:50

       ... I'm like the woman with nine careers. I started as a management consultant.

   15. MRMel Robbins1:54

       Uh-huh.

   16. MCMarina Cooley1:54

       Traveled, um, every single week for four years. 46 weeks, packed my little suitcase, traveled to a client, and learned that is a very challenging job.

   17. MRMel Robbins2:05

       Uh-huh.

   18. MCMarina Cooley2:05

       Um, and it can feel very shallow. And so after four years, I realized I had this really fancy degree, four years of consulting, and I was empty inside, and I had hit a dead end. And I thought, "Well, I actually do know what I want. I wanna be a marketer for a food and beverage company." And guess how many food and beverage companies wanted to hire me?

   19. MRMel Robbins2:25

       [laughs] How many?

   20. MCMarina Cooley2:26

       None.

   21. MRMel Robbins2:26

       [laughs] Okay.

   22. MCMarina Cooley2:27

       You know why?

   23. MRMel Robbins2:27

       I don't know. Why?

   24. MCMarina Cooley2:28

       Well, I had zero experience doing marketing.

   25. MRMel Robbins2:31

       You sound like every 20-year-old I know right now. [laughs]

   26. MCMarina Cooley2:34

       Right?

   27. MRMel Robbins2:34

       Yes.

   28. MCMarina Cooley2:35

       So I did... The only thing I could really think of was that I s- I started my own food company.

   29. MRMel Robbins2:41

       What kind of food and beverage company did you make?

   30. MCMarina Cooley2:43

       Peanut butter.
2. 8:05 – 15:43

   How to Be Memorable in Any Conversation

   1. MCMarina Cooley8:05

      your own story are valuable to anyone at any time.

   2. MRMel Robbins8:10

      I would love to talk about what are the courses that you teach at Emory Business School, and what are some of the biggest takeaways from this wildly popular course?

   3. MCMarina Cooley8:20

      Okay. Well, I teach advanced marketing strategy, which really takes someone that wants to go into the marketing profession all the way through to how do I create a brand, launch a brand-

   4. MRMel Robbins8:30

      Uh-huh

   5. MCMarina Cooley8:30

      ... maintain a brand. But my, um, I would say my calling card is this content marketing class, which I would argue is one of the most unique marketing classes in the country because we study the attention economy.

   6. MRMel Robbins8:45

      Okay, what is the attention economy for somebody who doesn't know what that is?

   7. MCMarina Cooley8:47

      Yeah. Right now, there are 1.3 billion things posted on Instagram every day.

   8. MRMel Robbins8:52

      1.3 billion?

   9. MCMarina Cooley8:54

      That's right. Our bottleneck, our limiting factor, is the amount of time that we have available to us. That, that is the attention economy.

   10. MRMel Robbins9:02

       Okay.

   11. MCMarina Cooley9:02

       There's, there's just, there's too much information out there. I can't process all of it, and there's, there's different elements to it. One is just how do I make sure that my attention is being put into the right things?

   12. MRMel Robbins9:15

       Yeah.

   13. MCMarina Cooley9:16

       Then the other part of it is, well, how do I use that to my advantage?

   14. MRMel Robbins9:19

       Yes.

   15. MCMarina Cooley9:19

       So if I want to build a business or progress or if, if there's a message I need to put out, how do I grab someone's very limited attention?

   16. MRMel Robbins9:28

       So you teach the core principles about how somebody can break through-

   17. MCMarina Cooley9:33

       Mm-hmm

   18. MRMel Robbins9:34

       ... and get their message across and amplify their business or amplify their message. But every single thing we're gonna talk about is also applicable if you want to effectively ask for a raise, if you wanna communicate your boundaries, if you want to basically do anything. Because a one-way ticket to a life that's not working is sitting silent and hoping somebody can read your mind or actually guess what it is that you need and want. And so this is going to be more and more important because everybody is so distracted. Is that right?

   19. MCMarina Cooley10:14

       That is, that is so well said. Yes.

   20. MRMel Robbins10:17

       And I would love to have you put us right in the classroom with you, and you are now in front of the class. The person who's with us is sitting next to me in class, and class is now in session. What is the assignment that you-

   21. MCMarina Cooley10:35

       Give them-

   22. MRMel Robbins10:35

       ... give to everybody?

   23. MCMarina Cooley10:36

       Okay. Well, the assignment is called Go Viral, Get an A. But I have to tell you that as, as fun as this story will be, it goes to a very important ethos.

   24. MRMel Robbins10:46

       Okay.

   25. MCMarina Cooley10:47

       And I myself have been the student in a classroom for many years. I think most listeners have spent time in a classroom. My philosophy is tell me and I forget, okay? Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I will learn.

   26. MRMel Robbins11:02

       Hmm.

   27. MCMarina Cooley11:02

       And I want my students to learn. If we want academia to continue on, if you don't want all of your learning to come from YouTube-

   28. MRMel Robbins11:11

       Yeah

   29. MCMarina Cooley11:11

       ... w- we have to make the classroom experience something special.

   30. MRMel Robbins11:16

       Yes.
3. 15:43 – 20:40

   How to Overcome Fear of Rejection

   1. MRMel Robbins15:43

      breakthrough that keeps people from dreaming out loud and from amplifying themselves. And so what stands in most of our way, that you're actually the deeper thing that you're teaching here?

   2. MCMarina Cooley15:54

      Fear. I, I mean, when you put something out there, and it, and put something out there, yes, in this case is a post, but put something out there could also be asking for the raise.

   3. MRMel Robbins16:04

      Yeah.

   4. MCMarina Cooley16:04

      Asking for the meeting.

   5. MRMel Robbins16:06

      Yep.

   6. MCMarina Cooley16:07

      Um, two things can happen that you're not gonna like. One of them, um, is that you don't get it, right?

   7. MRMel Robbins16:15

      Yeah.

   8. MCMarina Cooley16:16

      Uh, and the other one is that you get ignored.

   9. MRMel Robbins16:19

      Ooh.

   10. MCMarina Cooley16:19

       And both of those things feel awful. I mean, our, our brain is programmed to save us from those feelings. I mean, social rejection feels awful.

   11. MRMel Robbins16:33

       Yes.

   12. MCMarina Cooley16:34

       It's literally the same part of your brain that tells you you're in physical pain. And so we're, we're wired to not experience that. And when you think about it like that, like, how does anyone ever post anything or [laughs] ask for anything? It's because we're finding a way to move past that. And to be able to give students, and, and you, who is listening, uh, a reminder that you can. You can put it out there. And y- you actually won't die.

   13. MRMel Robbins17:07

       Well, one of the things that I think we all know and we talk about is that fear that people are gonna criticize you, that fear that, that, that people are gonna, you know, judge you. But what I've never considered is the other fear that you mentioned, which is that no one is gonna even look at it. Like, we talk a lot about being scared about people judging us.

   14. MCMarina Cooley17:33

       Mm-hmm.

   15. MRMel Robbins17:34

       But I haven't had a conversation yet with somebody, Professor Cooley, about this deeper fear of, what if it sucks? What if no one comes and watches?

   16. MCMarina Cooley17:48

       Mm-hmm.

   17. MRMel Robbins17:48

       What if nobody listens to the song?

   18. MCMarina Cooley17:52

       Mm-hmm.

   19. MRMel Robbins17:54

       Can we talk a little bit about that part of social rejection?

   20. MCMarina Cooley17:57

       It's so deep within us to, to be scared that nobody will care about us.

   21. MRMel Robbins18:03

       Yeah.

   22. MCMarina Cooley18:03

       And the only way forward is to use the rational part of your brain and tell yourself that n- nothing will happen if you get ignored. I mean, you might, you might learn a lot, that you're not asking in an impactful way, that you're forgettable instead of memorable.

   23. MRMel Robbins18:23

       Yeah.

   24. MCMarina Cooley18:23

       Um, if it's about content creation and no one sees it- And the truth is, a few people will see it. They're gonna be your friends and family that see it, and they're gonna be sorry for you on your behalf, right? They're, you're, you're gonna be thinking about how they're thinking, like, "She's so pathetic. [laughs] She just keeps sharing stuff that nobody sees."

   25. MRMel Robbins18:42

       Uh-huh.

   26. MCMarina Cooley18:42

       And this is where that rational brain has to use the tools that you've given us, Mel, which is to say, "Let them," right? Let them think that I'm being ignored, but I am going to figure out a way to communicate effectively because I wanna amplify the life that I'm living.

   27. MRMel Robbins18:59

       You know, I really, I, I, I, I'm really stopping to think about this concept, though, that so- you just said, so deep within us is this fear that no one cares about us. And as you said that, I realized that I did not do events. Like, I, I would go and speak at other people's events.

   28. MCMarina Cooley19:28

       Mm-hmm.

   29. MRMel Robbins19:29

       But over the past, I don't know, six or seven years, people would be like, "Why don't you do your own events? Lots of people, you know-"

   30. MCMarina Cooley19:35

       Mm-hmm
4. 20:40 – 24:18

   How to Get a Raise

   1. MRMel Robbins20:40

      doing this?" That, that it is part of what you have to go through. Can you talk about the social wiring and the cringe factor and just, like, that it's just part of the deal, and that if you, if you feel it, are you normal? Like, is that just part of this?

   2. MCMarina Cooley20:58

      I mean, cringe is kind of a new word.

   3. MRMel Robbins20:59

      Okay.

   4. MCMarina Cooley21:00

      But really, cringe is that social rejection.

   5. MRMel Robbins21:03

      Yes.

   6. MCMarina Cooley21:04

      It's, "I am going to do something that, in a way, you know, society has told me not to do." Maybe, maybe you interpret that as bragging or self-promotion, and you've seen it done in really bad ways, uh, which we all have.

   7. MRMel Robbins21:19

      Yes.

   8. MCMarina Cooley21:19

      And so you think cringe, but I think if that's how it feels, you're doing it wrong.

   9. MRMel Robbins21:25

      Wait a minute. If you feel cringey, you're doing it wrong?

   10. MCMarina Cooley21:28

       I th- I think that there are ways to, A, get over it, right?

   11. MRMel Robbins21:31

       Okay.

   12. MCMarina Cooley21:31

       Which is the push through.

   13. MRMel Robbins21:32

       Okay.

   14. MCMarina Cooley21:32

       We're gonna push through. We know we're gonna make it on the other side. And then I think once you've done that, there are ways to show up authentically for the interview, for the business, for the email that you're writing, that aren't going to keep you up at night feeling like [laughs] you're about to jump out of an airplane.

   15. MRMel Robbins21:51

       Wow. You also teach some unbelievable research in your class when it comes to making sure that you aren't sitting back hoping people notice. Like, if you're somebody right now that's listening and you're annoyed because you feel like you keep getting passed over, or if you can't seem to get the promotion you want, or you can't seem to get the type of salary that you want, there is something that you need to know based on research that's really important. So could you talk to us about that-

   16. MCMarina Cooley22:23

       Mm-hmm

   17. MRMel Robbins22:23

       ... Professor Cooley?

   18. MCMarina Cooley22:25

       The research that Mel is referring to from Catalyst took a look at 3,000 respondents that were, um, labeled high-potential. So you might wanna know-

   19. MRMel Robbins22:35

       What is high-potential?

   20. MCMarina Cooley22:35

       ... what high-potential meant.

   21. MRMel Robbins22:37

       Yeah.

   22. MCMarina Cooley22:37

       And, you know, studies like this have to have a very specific definition, and we, um, called high-potential that you have an MBA and that you are progressing up a career field in a traditional corporate job.

   23. MRMel Robbins22:49

       Okay.

   24. MCMarina Cooley22:50

       So I know these people. [laughs]

   25. MRMel Robbins22:52

       You used to be one of these people.

   26. MCMarina Cooley22:52

       I mean, I used to be-

   27. MRMel Robbins22:53

       Yes

   28. MCMarina Cooley22:53

       ... one of these people, and my MBAs are these people. So 3,000 people, and the researchers then took nine attributes that people use to have career progression and specifically to get higher compensation.

   29. MRMel Robbins23:09

       Okay.

   30. MCMarina Cooley23:09

       And so some of the tactics were finding a mentor, taking additional training, looking for external opportunities and bringing those internally. Um, communicating that you'll work long hours, working long hours, and then communicating your achievements. And then they were able to, over time, establish which of these work, and there's a very surprising finding, which is that what works for men is different than what works for women. So for men, it is taking opportunities externally and showing them off internally, like, "Look what I'm worth." And surprisingly, it's the communicating that, "I'm willing to work long hours."
5. 24:18 – 29:20

   How Women Can Advocate for Themselves at Work

   1. MRMel Robbins24:18

      to an increase in salary and an increase in your, your, like, you get a raise?

   2. MCMarina Cooley24:22

      Yes.

   3. MRMel Robbins24:22

      Okay. What, what about for women?

   4. MCMarina Cooley24:24

      So for women-

   5. MRMel Robbins24:25

      Yes

   6. MCMarina Cooley24:25

      ... there's one attribute that moves the needle, and that is communicating your achievements. And- I find this to be so exciting.

   7. MRMel Robbins24:34

      Exciting?

   8. MCMarina Cooley24:35

      I do.

   9. MRMel Robbins24:36

      Okay. Tell us why.

   10. MCMarina Cooley24:37

       Because I think, uh, and, and I'll speak for myself and also many of the women that I have taught, we believe that often we're going to have to get pushed out of the workforce because we can't communicate we're gonna work the long hours because for stages of our life, we can't.

   11. MRMel Robbins24:53

       Mm-hmm.

   12. MCMarina Cooley24:54

       So to know that we're not, we're not going to be punished for not doing that, and instead all we have to do is the work and then communicate what results that work led to, that's what it's gonna take to get paid more. I think that's really good news.

   13. MRMel Robbins25:11

       I think that's really good news. And what do you think the big mistake is that women make based on this research?

   14. MCMarina Cooley25:17

       I think we believe that if we do great work, that that is enough. And it's not.

   15. MRMel Robbins25:22

       That somebody's gonna notice.

   16. MCMarina Cooley25:23

       Someone's gonna notice.

   17. MRMel Robbins25:25

       And what are the things based on this research and based on all the, the work that you're doing around amplification, what is it that women are supposed to do that they don't know that they need to do? Like, how do you promote the things that you're doing?

   18. MCMarina Cooley25:43

       Taking this back to the attention economy that we live in-

   19. MRMel Robbins25:47

       Yes

   20. MCMarina Cooley25:47

       ... I wanna feel what it feels like to be that manager for a minute, okay? So you have 10 direct reports.

   21. MRMel Robbins25:53

       Yep.

   22. MCMarina Cooley25:53

       Um, you have your own boss.

   23. MRMel Robbins25:55

       Yep.

   24. MCMarina Cooley25:56

       Maybe you have three kids at home. Maybe your mom is going through cancer, or your dad. You are also seeing 6 to 10,000 messages a day.

   25. MRMel Robbins26:07

       Mm.

   26. MCMarina Cooley26:08

       And so if one of your 10 direct reports is always demonstrating, "This is what our team has accomplished," like, if they are the ones that are making you, the boss, look good, I think it's not surprising that that person would advance. So if you're one of the other nine and you're crossing your fingers thinking that your boss is thinking about you, they're not. And again, I, I don't think a lot of the times it's malicious. It's that our attention is the most scarce resource. And so you have to do the work and then help illustrate what you have done, and not every statement is about bragging.

   27. MRMel Robbins26:51

       Right.

   28. MCMarina Cooley26:51

       And there are many ways to do it in a way that you are sharing what contributions you have made to progress the goals of the organization forward.

   29. MRMel Robbins27:00

       Yes.

   30. MCMarina Cooley27:01

       And when you do it like that, I, I think a lot of the, the cringe is removed.
6. 29:20 – 33:02

   How to Stand Out Professionally

   1. MRMel Robbins29:20

      You do also a lot of teaching about designing a reputation.

   2. MCMarina Cooley29:24

      Mm-hmm.

   3. MRMel Robbins29:25

      And how can you think about, just even at the basic level, Monday through Friday, whether you're working at a retail store-

   4. MCMarina Cooley29:32

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm

   5. MRMel Robbins29:32

      ... or you're working, you know, at a small business, or you're, you're in a career at a big hospital, like, how do you want us to think about this?

   6. MCMarina Cooley29:40

      Maybe it's the brand marketer in me-

   7. MRMel Robbins29:43

      Yeah

   8. MCMarina Cooley29:43

      ... right? Like, that's my background. And so I've grown up really comfortable with the idea that brands have attributes associated with them.

   9. MRMel Robbins29:51

      Yeah.

   10. MCMarina Cooley29:52

       I don't wanna keep giving, um, Coke all-

   11. MRMel Robbins29:54

       Free advertising

   12. MCMarina Cooley29:54

       ... call, all this free advertising to Coca-Cola, but, you know, when I say Coke, it's open happiness. It's refreshment.

   13. MRMel Robbins30:01

       Mm.

   14. MCMarina Cooley30:02

       Um, those are the attributes associated with Coke.

   15. MRMel Robbins30:05

       That's true. If you think about Ford pickup trucks versus GMC, one feels one way, another feels another way. If you think about-

   16. MCMarina Cooley30:11

       Yes

   17. MRMel Robbins30:11

       ... Nike versus Reebok or Dunkin'-

   18. MCMarina Cooley30:14

       Yes

   19. MRMel Robbins30:14

       ... versus Starbucks, like, there's attributes to every single brand out there, and how does that relate to your reputation as a person?

   20. MCMarina Cooley30:22

       So I guess because I've always lived in this brand-building world, it comes really naturally to me. But the more students I meet, the more I realize, like, oh, it- it's not that natural. And wh- who I think it's least natural to are people that are older.

   21. MRMel Robbins30:36

       Mm.

   22. MCMarina Cooley30:37

       So dealing in demographics is a, is a tricky thing, right? I don't wanna just say, you know, "If you're, if you're older, this isn't natural to you." But for a long time, we worked at companies for many years.

   23. MRMel Robbins30:47

       Right.

   24. MCMarina Cooley30:48

       Right? So I, I'm, I'm somewhere for 20 years, 30 years.

   25. MRMel Robbins30:51

       Yes.

   26. MCMarina Cooley30:51

       And now, the average job tenure is hovering around three to four years.

   27. MRMel Robbins30:55

       Wow.

   28. MCMarina Cooley30:56

       If you're a young person just starting out, it might be closer to two. And so you can't count on being at a company and being this, you know, known entity for 20 years. You're gonna be moving around a lot, and so you need a portable reputation. And that's really where the idea of personal brand comes from. If you have to [laughs] go from one company to the next, you know, what, what can you bring with you? And that's why I do think having an online presence is helpful. Every meeting you go to, every potential customer, um, every interview, I promise you they are looking you up. Uh, in fact, the data suggests that 98% of the time, somebody is going to look you up before they have a meeting with you. That, that... So what, what's going to be there [laughs] when they look you up?

   29. MRMel Robbins31:50

       Yeah.

   30. MCMarina Cooley31:50

       You... And you, you have a chance to create a quick little calling card on LinkedIn that explains, "Here's who I am. Here are the kind of problems that I have solved in the past."
7. 33:02 – 42:04

   Ask Your Boss This One Question

   1. MRMel Robbins33:02

      other ways you want us to think about just building a reputation or having a type of brand or attributes that you, like, are creating?

   2. MCMarina Cooley33:15

      Um, okay. I am thinking about two students that have stuck with me-

   3. MRMel Robbins33:20

      Okay

   4. MCMarina Cooley33:20

      ... and something that they did. At least once a semester, so this is more like a category, I will have a student come up to me after the first day of class, and they will look at me in the eyes and they will say, "What do I have to do to be successful in this class? In the past when you have had students excel and get one of the As, what have they done to get them? Just tell me what success looks like, and I will do that for you." And I promise you, Mel, those are the students that always get one of the As.

   5. MRMel Robbins33:51

      [laughs] That is so genius. Like, just stop and ask yourself, honestly, on the first day of any job that you've ever had, have you ever asked the person that hired you, "Please tell me exactly what I need to do and how I need to behave in order to be wildly successful working for you and wildly successful within that company"? And that person will tell you exactly what to do. That is the best advice I've ever heard.

   6. MCMarina Cooley34:26

      Okay, so-

   7. MRMel Robbins34:27

      Coming from a 20-year-old student.

   8. MCMarina Cooley34:28

      And so I... Yeah, so it happens once a semester, one student. Okay, I teach about 250. Okay, one, one of them will do this, and I will tell them. Nobody asks.

   9. MRMel Robbins34:39

      And then you sit around and guess, and then you're mad at your boss, and then you're mad that you're not noticed.

   10. MCMarina Cooley34:44

       Yeah.

   11. MRMel Robbins34:44

       And you can just ask.

   12. MCMarina Cooley34:46

       Okay, the other one that's blown me away. I had a student, um, who wanted to be a teaching assistant for me, and I always have more people that wanna be TAs than there are spots. So I have a student reach out, and she writes, "I was in this class, this section," right? Because again, she knows I'm teaching 250 students a semester. And she said, "These are the grades that I received in your class, and I wrote the case that you shared as the example. And when we did this class, I was the one that shared that example, and I am now in the top 5% of this." And then this is the part that got me. And she said, "I understand that the job is grading papers, and I still want that job. I'm hoping I have access to your research, but I understand that the way to be helpful to you is by grading papers." Hired. Please. Because everybody else, they come and they tell me, "I wanna do the sexy projects. I wanna do the sexy research." And here was a person that actually said, "Here's the part of your job that's really hard. I'm gonna help you with it."

   13. MRMel Robbins35:54

       Wow. I'm just thinking about even how this relates to families, how it relates to friendship. You're dating somebody, and you're just getting to know the family. Like, asking the person, "Tell me how to be successful with your family." That's it.

   14. MCMarina Cooley36:15

       Just, yes. Just ask the right question, and people will be helpful.

   15. MRMel Robbins36:19

       That's fantastic. If you think about all of us as wanting to get ahead, wanting to be respected, wanting to be treated well-

   16. MCMarina Cooley36:27

       Mm-hmm

   17. MRMel Robbins36:27

       ... wanting to be compensated for the contributions we're making-

   18. MCMarina Cooley36:31

       Mm-hmm

   19. MRMel Robbins36:31

       ... how do you want us to think about, like, how we conduct ourselves?

   20. MCMarina Cooley36:36

       Number one, you have to show up. Tell me, okay, you do a lot of speaking.

   21. MRMel Robbins36:41

       Yep.

   22. MCMarina Cooley36:42

       Um, I'm guessing sometimes it happens virtually. Is that right?

   23. MRMel Robbins36:45

       Uh, yeah, I do- don't do a lot in person these days, 'cause I just-

   24. MCMarina Cooley36:49

       Yeah

   25. MRMel Robbins36:49

       ... don't have time to travel.

   26. MCMarina Cooley36:50

       Okay. So you talk to big audiences virtually.

   27. MRMel Robbins36:52

       Yep. Uh-huh.

   28. MCMarina Cooley36:52

       How many cameras are on?

   29. MRMel Robbins36:53

       Oh, that I see?

   30. MCMarina Cooley36:55

       Yeah.
8. 42:04 – 47:02

   How to Build Confidence at Work

   1. MRMel Robbins42:04

      things that I, that I think a lot about is the fact that there's a ton of people entering the workforce, whether it is people in their 20s who did college kinda remote because of the pandemic, or they're entering a job market that's hybrid, or maybe you've got somebody who's going back to work after raising kids. And when you go through these periods where you've not been in person, or you have been working retail or a bartending job, and then all of a sudden you get, you know, like, a more corporate, professional job, there is this just- ... kind of confidence that you lack, and you feel behind because you're not used to sharing your ideas in a meeting. You're not used to kinda self-starting and, and just taking control. There's this behavior that I see in a lot of people of sitting around, waiting to be sure or waiting to be told what to do, versus taking the initiative and pushing through, to use your word, that cringey or-

   2. MCMarina Cooley43:11

      Mm-hmm

   3. MRMel Robbins43:11

      ... uncomfortable-

   4. MCMarina Cooley43:12

      Mm-hmm

   5. MRMel Robbins43:12

      ... feeling that, uh, what if I get it wrong? What if I look stupid? What if this? What if that? Can you talk a little bit about that, and talk to the person that feels like they just are very uncomfortable putting themselves out there in a work environment?

   6. MCMarina Cooley43:30

      Preparedness will do wonders. Knowing what is the agenda, who is there, what are we there for, I have one or two things that I've already thought of. Just that will give you so much confidence. So, invest the morning 10 minutes, reap the benefits all day. And I, as an introvert, relate deeply, and for a long time, and, and I still do to a certain extent, live under you don't need to talk if you don't have something relevant or new to say. And, and I ha- and I have to stand by that. I cannot talk just to have myself heard. And so what helped me so much was doing some advance notes.

   7. MRMel Robbins44:13

      Okay.

   8. MCMarina Cooley44:13

      Just so that, that I could pull out. So, if we were talking about, you know, launching a new brand deal, having a little bit of research about, well, what are other brand deals, you know, maybe with, like, a nice statistic. Like, that increased results by 32%.

   9. MRMel Robbins44:31

      That's a great idea. If you're introverted or you have a lot of self-doubt and fear about having the attention on you or having to speak in public, and not setting yourself up so that you have to both have words come out of your mouth and manage fear at the same time-

   10. MCMarina Cooley44:48

       Mm-hmm

   11. MRMel Robbins44:49

       ... is a massive tip. And so the preparation ahead of time takes care of the words.

   12. MCMarina Cooley44:55

       Mm-hmm.

   13. MRMel Robbins44:56

       And one thing I would add to it is that in life, there are no extra points if you recite the words. In life, it is wonderful when I see somebody pull out an index card, and when they wanna say something, they say, "I have something I want to share and I, I, I brought some notes because I wanted to make sure I got it right."

   14. MCMarina Cooley45:18

       Mm-hmm.

   15. MRMel Robbins45:20

       When you hold up the index card and you say, "I, I brought some notes and I wanna read you some of the things that I, you know, wanted to share," I go, "That person's prepared. That person did some research, and this person wants to get it right." And I wanna pick up on something else that you said, because I realize that there's a couple people that work for me that do this, and I didn't realize that they were doing this. And it works like a charm, and you just recommended it, so I wanted to be sure, for those of you that are introverted or starting out in a new company or new career, this is a fabulous way to come up with something to research or contribute. Any time you research what the competition is doing-

   16. MCMarina Cooley46:00

       Mm-hmm

   17. MRMel Robbins46:01

       ... any time you look into the industry that you're in and you say, "Hey, I don't know if... You guys probably saw the article in The New York Times," or, "Did you know, I just read this, you know, in Consumer Reports, that buying is down 15% with this demographic. I think it's an important thing to consider." When you come in and say, "I looked at what the realtor down the road was doing. I heard what the hospital down the street is doing," you could be on your third day of work, and if I'm the manager-

   18. MCMarina Cooley46:30

       Mm-hmm

   19. MRMel Robbins46:30

       ... I spin around-

   20. MCMarina Cooley46:31

       Mm-hmm

   21. MRMel Robbins46:32

       ... and I'm like, "Where have you been all this time? Thank God you're here. What else can you te-

   22. MCMarina Cooley46:37

       Mm-hmm

   23. MRMel Robbins46:37

       ... Like, amazing. Find out more."

   24. MCMarina Cooley46:38

       Mm-hmm.

   25. MRMel Robbins46:39

       And so that piece of advice works for everybody, and it's something that you can do in situations where you either feel too junior or you don't quite understand the culture yet, because we all wanna know what the competition is doing. We all wanna know what's being written about the things that we're talking about. So, that's a fantastic piece of advice. One of the things

9. 47:02 – 51:18

   The Skills That Actually Get You Hired

   1. MRMel Robbins47:02

      I would love to have you talk about is just the fact that the job market is so brutal right now, and learning how to amplify yourself and learning how to be a sticky candidate and to break through is absolutely essential. And so, Professor Cooley, what do you believe the skills are that actually matter, and what are some things you want anyone that is looking for a job or thinking about changing jobs, what do they need to know in order to stand out and get hired?

   2. MCMarina Cooley47:36

      I wanna start by saying I know that the job market is brutal, because that's what every headline says and that's what our job numbers indicate. But I also wanna say that this is certainly not the first time that we've had a bad job market. And I believe that if you can be resourceful, if you can network effectively and take help from anywhere that you can get it, if you can demonstrate that you are tech-savvy. And then I saved the best for last. I think the thing that is lacking, and we know it, is critical reasoning. And if you can be someone that demonstrates, "I think. I foresee the problems we're going to face and I solve them before they happen. I do not immediately ask a question. I try to answer it myself. I am a critical thinker," you will rise to the top.

   3. MRMel Robbins48:33

      I agree. I agree. The other thing I wanted to say, as somebody that is, you know, running a company and hiring people, I once read a statistic, and I believe that this is true. 80% of jobs that people are h- gonna hire ... aren't even listed somewhere, because the people that are working are too busy to write the job description. We probably have 10 to 12 jobs that we need filled-

   4. MCMarina Cooley49:01

      Mm-hmm

   5. MRMel Robbins49:01

      ... and we have not had time-

   6. MCMarina Cooley49:04

      Mm-hmm

   7. MRMel Robbins49:05

      ... to just stop and figure out the job description.

   8. MCMarina Cooley49:09

      Mm-hmm.

   9. MRMel Robbins49:10

      And so the reason why I'm telling you that is because part of it is, yes, apply, apply, apply, apply. Be sticky. Follow the stuff that Professor Cooley is talking about. Manage your portable reputation. But you will find a job by talking to people.

   10. MCMarina Cooley49:28

       Mm-hmm.

   11. MRMel Robbins49:29

       Because there are more jobs out there than you realize, and a lot of them are not listed yet. A lot of them are inside companies where they don't know they need the person yet, and you might know a person who knows a person that can get you there. And so it's not about sitting home and mindlessly hitting Submit. It's about getting your rear end out of the house-

   12. MCMarina Cooley49:51

       Mm-hmm

   13. MRMel Robbins49:52

       ... and talking to people.

   14. MCMarina Cooley49:53

       Mm-hmm. Uh, best advice. Wholeheartedly agree, and I think it's because we like sure things, right?

   15. MRMel Robbins50:03

       Yes.

   16. MCMarina Cooley50:03

       Like, I, I want to see job online, I want to submit something, and then I want to tell myself I just completed an action, right? It's like check-

   17. MRMel Robbins50:14

       Yep

   18. MCMarina Cooley50:14

       ... check, check. Like, that's, that's the template-

   19. MRMel Robbins50:17

       Yeah

   20. MCMarina Cooley50:18

       ... of applying for a job, when really it's the, "I'm gonna dream out loud. I'm gonna amplify because I know what I want." So, like you said, you're growing like crazy. You have so many needs.

   21. MRMel Robbins50:32

       Mm-hmm.

   22. MCMarina Cooley50:33

       What if I were a person that wanted to break into this space, I believed in your mission, and I wrote to you, right? And I wrote to everyone on your team and I said, "These, these are my skillsets. Like, yes, I'm 50, but, like, a lot of your audience is, too, and I know that audience, and I know how to show up, and I know how to have energy. These are the 10 books I've read. These are the next 10 guests I think you should have."

   23. MRMel Robbins51:01

       Yeah.

   24. MCMarina Cooley51:01

       Like-

   25. MRMel Robbins51:01

       Yeah

   26. MCMarina Cooley51:01

       ... how blown away would you be?

   27. MRMel Robbins51:03

       And another thing you can do is you could actually do the work and say, "I pulled this together. I think I could do... And I've edited this," or, "I've done that," or, "I've written this. Check it out." And demonstrate what you can do.

   28. MCMarina Cooley51:17

       Demonstrate.

10. 51:18 – 53:42

    Keep Your Job in the Age of AI

    1. MRMel Robbins51:18

       You know, as a business school professor, I'd also love to hear your take on the skills that you think are gonna become more valuable as AI is rapidly changing the workforce. It's changing the way people work. What do you think the most important and valuable skills are going to become?

    2. MCMarina Cooley51:39

       Well, I, I think you're hitting on a really important note, which is that you can't ignore it, and so the best way is to get comfortable. So all of the different tasks that you are currently doing, I think each of them deserves an experiment to see whether AI can be a tool to save time.

    3. MRMel Robbins51:57

       Mm-hmm.

    4. MCMarina Cooley51:58

       And the more tools that you can play with, the less that you will be scared and the more confident that you will sound. Okay. But the flip side of that, for sure, is that critical thinking will be the most rare skillset. It is so easy, right? And we love easy, right? I want, I want abs in a week.

    5. MRMel Robbins52:18

       [laughs]

    6. MCMarina Cooley52:19

       Um, I, I wanna be able to run a marathon, you know, after training for 20 days. Like, I want it easy, and now there's this tool, right? Write my emails for me. Schedule my vacation for me. Um, create the strategy deck for me. Create my content social calendar for me. Will you know how to think?

    7. MRMel Robbins52:40

       More importantly, if that's the only thing you can do, within six months, AI can do that without you.

    8. MCMarina Cooley52:47

       Yes. Yes.

    9. MRMel Robbins52:48

       So l- not actually understanding what you're talking about is a one-way ticket to no job.

    10. MCMarina Cooley52:58

        This-

    11. MRMel Robbins52:58

        How do you develop critical thinking skills?

    12. MCMarina Cooley53:01

        I, I mean, it's hard. It's, I, I'm trying to solve a problem, and I'm going to stop inputs from coming in, and I'm going to think about how I could solve that problem. So no aids, quiet time, turn off, right? And that, that has to do, I think, critical reasoning and attention span are very, very closely intertwined.

    13. MRMel Robbins53:22

        Mm-hmm.

    14. MCMarina Cooley53:23

        And so the person that can control their attention span will unlock critical reasoning.

    15. MRMel Robbins53:30

        Y- you have given us so many incredibly specific things to do and to think about, and I have so many people in my life I wanna send this to. And,

11. 53:42 – 58:29

    Create the Life You Want

    1. MRMel Robbins53:42

       Professor Cooley, if you have just one thing that you think is the most important thing for the person listening to do, of everything that you're talking about, what do you think the one action that is critical to take?

    2. MCMarina Cooley54:00

       You need to know what you want before you can ask for what you want.

    3. MRMel Robbins54:03

       Mm.

    4. MCMarina Cooley54:04

       We often say time is your greatest-

    5. MRMel Robbins54:07

       Mm

    6. MCMarina Cooley54:07

       ... resource, and I think the modern-day [scoffs] version of that is that your attention is your greatest resource. And everybody wants your attention so much that often you don't place it on the right things because you're so distracted.

    7. MRMel Robbins54:27

       Mm.

    8. MCMarina Cooley54:27

       So I know that, um, I am a content marketing professor who, you know, wants you on your phone, but actually, a lot of the magic happens off your phone.

    9. MRMel Robbins54:37

       Mm.

    10. MCMarina Cooley54:38

        So the first thing to do is to put it down and take a really good look at what kind of life you want. If there are things you wanna do, like open a jewelry store, or switch careers, or get that VP title, if there are things that you want You're going to have to take the time and attention to make a plan

    11. MRMel Robbins55:06

        What are your parting words?

    12. MCMarina Cooley55:07

        I think they'll be slightly unrelated to this topic, but I wholeheartedly mean them, and that is to get a hobby. [laughs]

    13. MRMel Robbins55:15

        Really?

    14. MCMarina Cooley55:16

        Yes. Um, in this modern overwhelming world, we have so many obligations, and it's... Right? It's either the work or the finding ways to accelerate at work. It's the family, like, whether it's young or old. There is so much duty in our lives. One way to go off duty is to, to do a hobby. So fall in love with something and give yourself a third identity-

    15. MRMel Robbins55:45

        Hmm

    16. MCMarina Cooley55:46

        ... which takes a lot of the pressure off all of those other things. So create a self that is outside of duty. Um, and as a bonus, I think you'll realize that when you try a new hobby, you will, without a doubt, make a real idiot of yourself, and that practice of looking stupid in front of people will go on to serve you [laughs] when we talk about all of these other ways of putting yourself out there. It is like, it is the practice.

    17. MRMel Robbins56:13

        You know what else I love about that? Is the second that you said duty, I, I kind of felt, like, my shoulders drop a little bit. And when you said hobby, all of a sudden you invited play in.

    18. MCMarina Cooley56:27

        Yes.

    19. MRMel Robbins56:27

        You shifted our focus away from all these things that we feel like we have to do, and self-promotion is hard, and hobby is for play. But what I also love about it, and it's very sneaky of you, is that it tracks back to sticky ideas. Because hobbies make you interesting.

    20. MCMarina Cooley56:43

        Absolutely, they do.

    21. MRMel Robbins56:44

        And it gives you something to talk about. It gives you something that brings you joy. It gives you something that helps you connect to other people. It helps make you memorable. And when you're doing something interesting, that's interesting to you, now all of a sudden you've got something that's kinda cool that might be interesting to other people, too. Professor Marina Cooley, I just wanna thank you, thank you, thank you for hopping on a plane and coming here to our Boston studios. I know that this advice is gonna make such a big difference in so many people's lives.

    22. MCMarina Cooley57:21

        Thank you for having me.

    23. MRMel Robbins57:22

        And I also wanna thank you. Thank you for taking the time to listen to something that is gonna help you get promoted, get hired, get paid more, and help you amplify yourself, dream out loud, and push yourself through all the things that are holding you back so you can actually get what you want. And in case no one else tells you today, I wanted to be sure to tell you today as your friend, that I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And learning how to define what you want and how to ask for it, there's no doubt it's gonna help you do exactly that. Thank you so much for being here with me and watching all the way to the end here on YouTube. If you're not already subscribed, it's the best way that you can support me, because I'm always showing up here with my team supporting you. Thanks for sharing this with people in your life who are looking to get promoted, to get hired, to get ahead at life. This information is gonna help them do exactly that. And I know you're looking for the next video that is gonna help you get ahead. I think you're gonna love this one. I'll welcome you in the moment you hit play. [outro music]

Episode duration: 58:29