The Mel Robbins PodcastHow to Unlock Your Full Potential with #1 Professor Adam Grant
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
70 min read · 14,313 words- 0:00 – 4:01
Meet the Guest
- MRMel Robbins
Today, on The Mel Robbins Podcast, Wharton School of Business professor, Dr. Adam Grant.
- AGAdam Grant
It is never too late to find your hidden potential, to reach out to somebody that you lost contact with, to ask for a raise or a promotion. So often we write ourselves off, we write relationships off, we write opportunities off because we think we missed the window, and we didn't.
- MRMel Robbins
He's written six New York Times bestsellers, and today he's here to help you unlock your hidden potential.
- AGAdam Grant
The greatest sign of potential is not where you start today. It's the distance you're capable of traveling tomorrow.
- MRMel Robbins
[upbeat music] Dr. Adam Grant, I am so happy to be with you in person. You know, I was thinking, "Okay, now, how do I interview a person whose work is this profound and important, and distill it all down?" And I love the topic and this idea that wherever you are in your life, there is a hidden potential for you to experience yourself, your work, what's possible. And so that's, I think, where I wanna start. What could change about my life if I take to heart everything we're gonna unpack?
- AGAdam Grant
I hope I can help people become more effective. I think all of my work centers around the idea that we can be more effective if we're willing to change our habits, and we're willing to question our assumptions. And I think what kind of effectiveness you're pursuing is sort of up to you. So you might have a goal that you're trying to achieve, and you feel like you're running into a stumbling block. You might have a connection you're trying to make, and you feel like you're just, you're just not clicking with another person. And really, my work starts with the question of, how do we close that gap between where we are today and where we would love to be tomorrow?
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm. So what does the word effective mean to you? 'Cause that, that is not the word that I [laughs] would've-
- AGAdam Grant
Really?
- MRMel Robbins
... thought you were gonna say. Yes.
- AGAdam Grant
What did you think I was gonna say?
- MRMel Robbins
I guess I didn't know. And so effective, it's an interesting word because now that you've said it, I think about all of the places in my day-to-day life where I drive myself crazy.
- AGAdam Grant
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
I waste time. I am frustrated. I feel ineffective, and that makes me feel disappointed in myself or just not enjoying my day-to-day life, and I hadn't thought about the power of the word effective.
- AGAdam Grant
Here we are.
- MRMel Robbins
Here we are. That if you're wasting time, if you're frustrated, if you're beating yourself up, if you feel stuck, if you keep doing the same damn thing and nothing's changing, that there are things you're gonna teach us today that will make you more effective with the time that you have and the people that are around you.
- AGAdam Grant
I hope so. And those un- unpleasant feelings that you're describing, those are actually sources of motivation, right? So every time you feel disappointed, that is a masterclass in figuring out how to do a better job staying focused. Every time you feel frustrated, that's a tutorial in how to find a different path to your goals. Every time you feel regret about how you spent your day, right, that is a lesson about making better decisions tomorrow. And I think so often what happens is we feel a negative emotion. We don't like it. We spend all our time ruminating about the past when we should be asking, what is the message for tomorrow from today's failure?
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, I love this. So any time I'm upset, frustrated, disappointed, that doesn't mean you've hit a wall. It means you are getting data from your own life that either the way you're approaching something isn't working, and I think the big message is what you're saying, you gotta find another way.
- AGAdam Grant
Exactly. One of the reasons a lot of people get stuck is they get too attached to the path, as opposed to saying, "I've got a goal, and I need to find one of many possible paths
- 4:01 – 10:28
How to Know If You’re Stuck On The Wrong Path
- AGAdam Grant
there."
- MRMel Robbins
You know, interesting that you said the word path, because in your blockbuster number one New York Times bestseller, Hidden Potential, I'm gonna read to you from page 14, "It's often said that where there's a will, there's a way. What we overlook is that when people can't see a path, they stop dreaming of the destination." What does that mean?
- AGAdam Grant
I've seen this a ton in my students, but I see it with people of all ages and life stages. At some point they realize, "You know what? My dreams are just not practical. Um, I had a career that I was passionate about, and I couldn't figure out how to make a living doing it. I had a sport that I loved, and I just wasn't talented enough. I had a hobby that I was pursuing, and I was hoping to turn it into a startup, and just couldn't figure it out. And so I can't find a way, and therefore, I lose the will."
- MRMel Robbins
Can you talk to the person who's listening who was nodding along as you were going through all of those types of situations that we get stuck in? You thought life was gonna be a certain way, now you're divorced. You're a student that thought you'd get into medical school. You've gone through your second round of applications, and it didn't happen. What do those moments tell you, and what do you want the person who's in that moment right now to know?
- AGAdam Grant
There's a really powerful term for that experience. It was coined in research by Barry Staw. It's called escalation of commitment to a losing course of action. Any time you make an initial decision or plan, it doesn't work out as you hoped. But instead of rethinking it, you double down. And you say, "If I just put in more time, more energy, more effort, then I can turn this around and prove to the other person that I made the right call and I'm worth it, and also prove to myself that I did not make a bad decision and I am not a failure." And I think when a lot of people hear about escalation of commitment, they're thinking about sunk costs, and that is part of the equation, right? People have a really hard time letting go of what they've already invested. And what I would say to that is it's better, if we think about this in the career context, for example, Mel, you're stuck in a dead-end job. A lot of people don't want to admit that they wasted the last two years. I would say it's much better to recognize quickly that you wasted the last two years than to waste the next 20. And the faster you are to recognize that you're on the wrong path, the sooner you can start pivoting and moving toward the right path.
- MRMel Robbins
But in that moment where you're doubling down, you, you really don't know it's the wrong path. So how do you know that you've spent and sunk too much time and too much money and too much effort into something that's not going to turn out? How do you know?
- AGAdam Grant
I don't think you ever know for sure.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- AGAdam Grant
I think there are three ways, though, to try to gauge whether you're at risk of escalation.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- AGAdam Grant
So the first way is to set yourself conditions in advance for what would have to happen that would tell me maybe I should pull the plug.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh.
- AGAdam Grant
So you pre-commit when you take a job, and you say, "I'm not sure if this is gonna be a good fit for my goals and values. I'm gonna give myself six months, and I'm not gonna worry day to day about whether this is right or wrong. I'm gonna give it a chance. And then at the six-month mark, I'm gonna do a career checkup," the same way that you would go to the dentist for a checkup even if nothing is wrong with your teeth. You put that reminder in your calendar.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- AGAdam Grant
And six months later, you basically evaluate, has the job met the conditions that you hoped for when you accepted it? So I think that's one option, and you keep yourself honest by making that initial commitment to say, "Okay, here's what I'm looking for, and here's when I'm gonna reassess." I think the second option is you have a friend or a mentor who's, or, or it might be a partner for that matter, who's really good at being your challenge at work, a sounding board to say, "Hey, wait a minute. You have reached a learning plateau or a meaning plateau or just a work-life balance plateau, and it is time to, to question whether this is something you wanna invest in." And then the third option, and this is my favorite one, Mel, because it's the easiest to do.
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- AGAdam Grant
Have you ever noticed that you're better at giving advice to other people than making your own choices?
- MRMel Robbins
Dude, I make a living at it.
- AGAdam Grant
I mean...
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs] I mean, yes.
- AGAdam Grant
If, if only you had Mel Robbins to advise you, right?
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- AGAdam Grant
So psychologists call that Solomon's paradox, and it comes from the, the parable of King Solomon, who was, you know, v- very wise in advising others but made disastrous personal choices. And that pattern holds for most of us. And the reason is, when we advise others, we tend to zoom out and look at the big picture, and we'll focus on the two or three most important factors and really ignore all of the other details, whereas when we make our own choices, we get stuck in the weeds.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh.
- AGAdam Grant
And we're trying to compare all the options on 19 different criteria, and we, we just end up overcomplicating it. And so I think any time you're not sure if you're in an escalation situation, you should start giving advice to somebody else who's either in that trap or imagine that you're talking to somebody who is, and give them some guidance. And you will find that the advice you give to others is usually the advice that you need to take yourself.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, that's amazing. The advice you give to others is the advice you need to take to yourself.
- AGAdam Grant
Yeah, 'cause you're taking yourself out of the situation-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes
- AGAdam Grant
... and looking at it from an outside perspective.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- 10:28 – 15:01
How to Stop Overthinking
- AGAdam Grant
I end up saying.
- MRMel Robbins
What are some of the, the big factors that you've seen that people put too much weight on the impact of the decision on others or, like-
- AGAdam Grant
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... count that too much?
- AGAdam Grant
I think that a lot of overthinking is actually underthinking.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, wait. What does that mean? [laughs]
- AGAdam Grant
I, I feel for people who overthink, but I worry about people who underthink, right? I would rather see you think too much than think too little. But I actually think one becomes the other, and here's what I mean by that. I think when people overthink things, what they're really doing is they're ruminating about the same thing over and over. There's actually a classic study on this by Paul Nutt. So he studies hundreds of organizational decisions, and he wants to know whether they succeed or fail. And it turns out about half of the decisions fail. And then he tries to reverse engineer, what are the differences between the decisions that worked out and the ones that didn't? And it turns out the clearest leading indicator that you are about to make a dumb decision is you've only considered two options. Even just having contemplated a third possibility raises the probability that you make a choice that you, you feel was successful on the back end that meets your goals. And I don't know, Mel, whether that's causal. I don't know whether considering a third option actually improves the quality of your decision-making or whether the kinds of people who considered three options were just more thorough decision-makers to begin with. But either way, when somebody is overthinking something, they're, they're kinda rattling back and forth just between two choices.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah, this or that.
- AGAdam Grant
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
This or that. This or that. This or that.
- AGAdam Grant
And I think the, that's a moment to pause and say, "What's behind door number three?" Like, I think what rescues a lot of people from overthinking traps is saying, "Okay, I have, you know, I've just been- ... pouring so much into comparing these two options.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- AGAdam Grant
If I put a third possibility on the table, that's actually gonna open up a whole bunch of new thoughts because I've got to compare now A and C and B and C, and that's gonna, you know, help me figure out whether C is worth considering, but it's also gonna re- reveal dimensions of A and B that I never thought of.
- MRMel Robbins
I love this because it's almost like throwing a, a ball for a dog. Like, you don't turn to the dog and be like, "Would you like to throw the ball?" You throw the ball, and now the dog is chasing it. And so when you said, "Come up with an option C," and maybe even always make option C ridiculous, like something that you don't even think is, uh, even possible.
- AGAdam Grant
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
But now I'm making my brain go do what it likes to do, which is problem solve, and you just tricked me into breaking that this or that.
- AGAdam Grant
Yeah. A lot of the ruminating we do is, it's tunnel vision.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- AGAdam Grant
And what we need is we need to improve our peripheral vision. I get so many questions, "Should I stay in my job or should I quit my job?" And my colleagues, Amy Wrzesniewski and Jane Dutton, say, "There's a third option. You don't have to choose between keeping your job and quitting your job. You can craft your job. You can try to tinker on the margins and say, 'What are tasks that I would love to spend more time on that align with my passions and my values and my skills? What are interactions I would love to have more of? Who are people that I find energizing, who I actually am able to add value to or who bring out the best in me? Let me try to make that a bigger part of my job.'" And a lot of people don't even consider that possibility. The most rigorous study of its kind, this is thousands of people in Australia over a five-year period, looks at what happens when people are really unhappy in their jobs. And the people who are extremely dissatisfied and they quit actually end up unhappier on average, because the grass was not greener. They kinda knew what the warts were in their existing job, and they didn't know all of the problems that they were gonna face in the new job. They had a rosy picture of it, and then there's kind of a honeymoon hangover effect [laughs] that occurs. They also don't realize that transitions take a toll. And so even people who left jobs they didn't like and found a better job, it typically took them at least a year to find happiness in that better job. And sometimes they never discovered it. Now, I'm not saying you should never quit a bad job. I think if you have a, a meaningless job, if you have an abusive boss, you should run for the hills if you have a chance. But I think if you have a job that's acceptable, before you just walk away, it's worth asking, "Could I innovate and redesign my own job? Could I become an active architect of what I do every day?"
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, I love that. Um, already you're opening the door to different possibilities, and this is one of the reasons why I love your work, because you always reveal something that a lot of us don't see.
- 15:01 – 27:40
How to Unlock Your Hidden Potential
- MRMel Robbins
What do we get wrong about potential?
- AGAdam Grant
I think when we judge potential, both in ourselves and others, the biggest mistake we make is we focus too much on ability and too little on motivation and opportunity.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, what does that even mean?
- AGAdam Grant
I think we tend to judge people by how good they are at the start-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- AGAdam Grant
... not how good they're capable of becoming. And the clearest examples of great potential are child prodigies. And so we marvel at the kids who can do, uh, a Mozart sonata at four or who can memorize the periodic table or thousands of digits of pi by the time they're seven. And what we don't realize is child prodigies rarely grow up to become adult geniuses.
- MRMel Robbins
Really?
- AGAdam Grant
Yeah. Empirically, it's a, it's a surprisingly small fraction of them who go on to great things. And my favorite study on this, it's a classic study by Benjamin Bloom. He studied world-class achievers across domains. He looked at great musicians, artists, scientists, and athletes. And then he went back to their childhoods, and he wanted to know what was it that set them apart, the people who would one day go on to greatness. And it turned out that most of these super achievers, they were not the best child in their own neighborhood when they first took on piano lessons or when they started painting or sculpting or when they picked up a tennis racket. Sometimes they weren't even the best in their own family. And when they did stand out, it wasn't because they had extraordinary talent, it was because they had extraordinary drive. They wanted to get better. They loved the activity. They were excited to practice when their peers were kinda getting tired or bored.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow. I mean, that's kind of exciting because I think we look at how we're doing right now at something, whether it's our job or it's trying to learn guitar or maybe even just our relationship skills-
- AGAdam Grant
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... and ability to connect with people, and we assume this is just what we're working with here.
- AGAdam Grant
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
But your work proves that no, no, no, no, you may not be able to see it, but there is hidden potential in you. And I know you have this visual that you can show us.
- AGAdam Grant
I think about Michelangelo looking at a block of stone and seeing a sculpture inside of it, and I think that's how we should look at everyone we meet. I think that's how we should look at ourselves, too, because so often we, we can, we can take a rock like this and inside we can see that there is the potential for [laughs] a diamond in the rough to, to be there.
- MRMel Robbins
And what, what he's do- what he's doing is he's, oh, he's got this ugly, just looks like a hunk of concrete-
- AGAdam Grant
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
... and you just popped it open and inside is one of those gorgeous, crystally, sparkly things.
- AGAdam Grant
It's a geode, right? And I think people show up in our lives, and we show up to new challenges and new tasks, and we kinda look like, [laughs] like this, this sort of-
- MRMel Robbins
A hunk of rock
- AGAdam Grant
... yeah, just a rock. And it's really hard to see the, the possibility for sparkling in, inside or underneath. And that happens because we judge ourselves by where we start. We judge other people by where they start. And we can't forecast how far they can go. But ultimately, I think the greatest sign of potential is not where you start today, it's the distance you're capable of traveling tomorrow.
- MRMel Robbins
And what would surprise the person- Who's listening to this right now, about how far you could go?
- AGAdam Grant
Uh, I think a lot of people, they, they basically lose self-confidence, or they can't find it in the first place.
- MRMel Robbins
Ah.
- AGAdam Grant
Because they say, "Look, I started. I'm not any good." And Mel, I, I lived this. I wanted to be a springboard diver. I was horrible. Horrible.
- MRMel Robbins
You were?
- AGAdam Grant
I was the worst diver in my school, my t-
- MRMel Robbins
Why did you wanna be a springboard diver?
- AGAdam Grant
'Cause I had already been cut from the basketball team and the soccer team. [laughs] I was running out of sports.
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- AGAdam Grant
My mom dragged me to a local pool one summer, and I saw the lifeguard on break doing flips and twists. He was a, a state finalist diver, and I was mesmerized, and I said, "I have to learn how to do that." But I was afraid of heights, so probably the wrong sport for me. I also was so inflexible I couldn't touch my toes without bending my knees. And I was just not cut out for the sport. In fact, um, [laughs] we have some vintage video and photo evidence.
- 27:40 – 30:15
How to Build Confidence
- MRMel Robbins
I wanna go back to the diving board example because I think as you listen to that story, y- it's easy to also insert yourself into the role of you as the 13-year-old diver. For the person who is starting to feel, "Oh, maybe there is some potential in me," where do you even begin to start to believe that?
- AGAdam Grant
I think the biggest mistake I see people make is they wait until they feel confident-
- MRMel Robbins
Oh
- AGAdam Grant
... in order to take action, and I learned through diving that that's backward. So let's, let's fast-forward a year or so. I'm starting to make a little progress as a diver, and my biggest obstacle is I'm afraid to try new dives because I'm gonna get lost in midair, and then I'm gonna end up doing a belly flop or a back smack. But one day, I will never forget this, I was so scared to try a new dive. It was, it was gonna be a full twisting two and a half. So I'm on the three-meter springboard. I'm supposed to do two forward somersaults, then a 360 turn, and then dive in. And I just, I had this vision of doing a cartwheel and breaking my eardrum, and I just, I could not... I couldn't, I couldn't get myself to go, and I was waiting until I felt ready. And Eric, after 45 minutes of watching me stand on the board shaking, said, "Adam, are you going to do this dive?" And [laughs] I was like, "Ever? One day, yes, I would love to do this dive." And Eric said, "Great. What are you waiting for?" And Mel, in that moment, I realized that I was waiting until I felt ready to take the leap, but I could only become ready by taking the leap. And I think that, that is... I think that's a metaphor that applies to every single confidence challenge we encounter. We're waiting to build confidence in order to act, but action is what builds confidence.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- AGAdam Grant
I've heard Eric's voice in my head every time I've been afraid to try something new or take a risk. When I was hesitating to write my first book, I heard Eric asking me, "Adam, are you gonna do this one day?" "Yes." "Why not start today?" When I got invited to give my first TED Talk, as an introvert who's extremely shy and grappled with a fear of public speaking, I was terrified, and I heard Eric echoing, "Adam, would you like to share your ideas on a stage like that one day?" "I would love to." "Great. What are you waiting for?" And I think that we really build confidence by taking the leap.
- MRMel Robbins
I
- 30:15 – 32:05
The Right Way to Ask for Feedback
- MRMel Robbins
love that. W- what role do relationships play in helping you unlock your potential?
- AGAdam Grant
It's hard to overstate how important it is to find other people who cheer for you. Who believe in you, who are willing to both show you what you're capable of, but also be honest with you when you're not quite [laughs] meeting the mark. But I think a, a small signal to say, "Hey, I'm open," goes a long way to inviting people to coach you. And so one thing I learned from Eric, actually, and this, this comes right out of diving, is [laughs] I would hit the water and I'd, I'd pop up after my dive and he would give me a score of zero to 10, because I can't see where I am in midair. I can't tell whether I made a splash or not. I can't tell whether I'm, you know, I've under-rotated or over-rotated. And so Eric would give me a score, and sometimes I was excited. He'd say, "Eight," and I felt like I crushed it. Other times, I'm... [laughs] I'd come out of the water and he'd say, "Three and a half." But it didn't matter what the score was. The only question was: how can I improve my score? How do I get closer to 10? And I think that's a question we can all ask. I, I do this every time I work with somebody new. Uh, after I give a, a keynote speech, after I come on a podcast, [laughs] I will say, "Zero to 10, how did that go?" And then whatever the score is, my next question is, "How can I get closer to 10?"
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- AGAdam Grant
And what I found works really well about this is people rarely give 10s, and if, if they do, I give them a hard time and say, "Look, there's no such thing as a 10. What did you really think?" And then, you know, whether they say, "Hey, I thought that was a six and a half or a two or a nine," they have acknowledged that it wasn't perfect. And then the natural follow-up question is, "Well, great. If you were gonna make one change, what is the change that you would recommend?"
- MRMel Robbins
I actually love this.
- 32:05 – 35:40
The Easiest Way to Reconnect with Others
- MRMel Robbins
Based on your research, what is the best way and easiest way to really strengthen your relationships?
- AGAdam Grant
I have learned something. I have learned that there is a habit that most of us have that we don't realize is actually vital to building new connections and also rekindling old ones. It's called pebbling.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, pebbling. You ha- And he's got a, he's got a prop here. He's got a, a glass-
- AGAdam Grant
Oh, yeah. We have a visual here
- MRMel Robbins
... thing full of little pebbles.
- AGAdam Grant
Yeah. Okay, so I love pebbling. The, the origin of the term is there, there are some penguins that when they're courting mates, they will present smooth, shiny pebbles as a way of, of showing, you know, basically they're suitable for partnering and building a nest together. If you picture a penguin presenting this pebble, right? It's a, it's a little gesture that says, "Hey, I might be for you." The modern digital equivalent of pebbling is sending other people memes, links, reels, and articles. And I think that, you know, what, what a lot of people when they, they hear that, they think, "Oh, well, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna, like, everything I find, I'm gonna blast it to everyone I know." No. Pebbling is not about spamming people with random junk from the internet. It's about carefully choosing a little bit of information that you know is gonna resonate with somebody else, and it says, "I thought of you. I know you. I see you." Every pebble is a bid for connection. Every single pebble you send to another person is a gesture of care. Now, the research on this I think is fascinating. So there have been now multiple studies which show that after you meet somebody new, if a week or a month later you send them a little pebble and you say, "Hey, I saw this, this meme of Macaulay Culkin wearing a shirt with Ryan Gosling on it, and then Ryan Gosling wore a shirt of Macaulay Culkin [laughs] wearing the Ryan Gosling shirt, and I, like, I know this is your jam. This is your kind of humor. It just reminded me of you," instantly that person will feel closer to you because you remember their unique sense of humor. That's a great way to, to strengthen a bond. It's also a great way to get back in touch with someone.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- AGAdam Grant
You reach out to somebody who's called a dormant tie, somebody you haven't talked to in two years, five years, maybe a decade or more, and you say, "I just watched Silo, and it just... You have to watch it. We have to talk about it. It reminded me of you. I just finished, uh, the new season of Ted Lasso, and there is an episode that has you written all over it." And that person really feels like, "Wow, first of all, I can't believe you remembered my taste in TV." So you've done a memory flex. [laughs] You, you have said, "Hey, guess what? I, I cared enough about you to pay attention to you," but you've also now created a reason to reconnect.
- MRMel Robbins
I love that. You know, one thing that people do with this show is when you share an episode with somebody in your family or a friend and you say, "Hey, I just heard Adam Grant. You have to hear the part where he's talking about pebbling," or, "You have to hear the part about not quitting your job," or, "You have to hear the part where he talks about your hidden potential and really the source of confidence. You're gonna love this," that's an example of pebbling.
- AGAdam Grant
It is.
- 35:40 – 44:00
How to Make Friends When You’re Lonely
- MRMel Robbins
Talk about dormant ties and what we get wrong about how big our actual network is, because one of the things that I think a lot about, especially in the moment that we're living in and just how lonely people feel, is that I think we don't realize how big our network is because we're judging it based on who we saw in the last week and we feel physically close to right now.
- AGAdam Grant
That's exactly right. We have a whole reservoir of future friends that we're not thinking about, and they're actually our old friends.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh. Oh my God, will you say that again?
- AGAdam Grant
Yeah, I mean-
- MRMel Robbins
How beautiful.
- AGAdam Grant
Uh, for anybody who feels lonely or just feels like they're not part of a community or they don't have their group, your future friends are the people you used to know.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow
- AGAdam Grant
How many people are there in your life that you lost touch with, but you would love to be back in contact with? We all have a few. Most of us actually have five, 10, maybe even dozens. And those are called dormant ties. In the research, one of the things that happens is people are prompted to reach out and, and reactivate the connection. And a lot of people will grumble, and they're like, "Some ties are dormant for a reason." No, Mel. Most ties are not dormant for a good reason. We didn't mean to fall out of touch. We got busy, we moved, we changed jobs, we had kids, and life just overwhelmed us.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- AGAdam Grant
And if you look at what the data show, when we actually have the courage to reach out and reconnect, 90% of the time we enjoy it.
- MRMel Robbins
90?
- AGAdam Grant
Nine out of 10 times that you rekindle a connection, you will say, "Wow, this was a delightful experience, and now we're gonna be back in touch."
- MRMel Robbins
You know what's interesting is that when I left Dartmouth and, uh, kinda just went on in my life, it was 1990, so no cell phones, no social media. When you moved to Washington, DC, or you moved out to California or London or wherever you went, you just didn't see your college friends.
- AGAdam Grant
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
I mean, you, you didn't have a way to get in touch with them, other than write a letter. And every time somebody moves, they have a different phone number because the phone was attached to the wall. And so I fell so out of touch. And recently, I have gotten back in touch just with a dormant contact, my freshman college roommate, shout out Bernadine. And I have now this group chat on text with people I hadn't spoken to in two decades.
- AGAdam Grant
Wow.
- MRMel Robbins
It's like four of us total that have gone in completely different paths-
- AGAdam Grant
I love that
- MRMel Robbins
... and it's the coolest thing.
- AGAdam Grant
It's such a great example. And it's much easier to reconnect with someone you used to know than-
- MRMel Robbins
Oh
- AGAdam Grant
... start over from scratch with somebody you hardly know, because there's probably a reservoir of goodwill. You have shared history. You have shared connections. There's some trust. You- there's nostalgia, right? You, you know some of the same people. You have some of the same memories. And so it's much easier to pick up where you left off. I think what's sad in the research is that when people, when, when they realize this, and they s- they find out, wow, people love reconnecting. And also, by the way, you get better advice and help from your dormant ties than from your current contacts.
- MRMel Robbins
Really? Why?
- AGAdam Grant
On average, yeah. Because the people you currently are interacting with regularly, they give you a lot of redundant information. They're, they're exposed to a lot of the same people and the same knowledge that you are. Whereas, your dormant ties have been meeting different people, they've been learning different things-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm
- AGAdam Grant
... and so they can open up a new job lead, a fresh creative perspective, a new idea. And I think that, like, you hear that, and you think, "Wow, [laughs] like, there are all these people who could be enormously helpful. They could be, you know, just great people to have in my life." Many people still hesitate to reach out because they think, "We're not gonna vibe. It's gonna be awkward. They're not gonna wanna hear from me." And that is, I think, a mistake.
- MRMel Robbins
It's not only a mistake. You're saying 90% of the time the reconnection goes way better. And so do you have any counsel to how to do that?
- AGAdam Grant
I actually think, you know, this article reminded me of you is a great place to start.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow.
- AGAdam Grant
Um, I read a book that I think you'd love. I listened to a song, and it took me right back-
- 44:00 – 46:42
Criticism Can Help You Grow
- MRMel Robbins
Adam, you say everyone needs a challenge network. What is that?
- AGAdam Grant
I think of a challenge network as kind of the mirror image of your support network.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- AGAdam Grant
So if you think about your support network, it's your mentors, your sponsors, your coaches, your friends, your fans. Those are the people who believe in you, they cheerlead for you, they have your back. I think we also need a challenge network, which is a group of thoughtful critics who you trust to hold up a mirror so you can see your own blind spots more clearly. And they are the people who, instead of lining up to feed you comforting lies, actually have the courage to tell you the unpleasant truths.
- MRMel Robbins
But I hate those people.
- AGAdam Grant
No, you don't.
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- AGAdam Grant
You might, you might find them annoying or irritating in the moment, but looking back, the people who gave you tough love are the ones who care most about you.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, wow. The people who gave you tough love are the ones who care the most about you.
- AGAdam Grant
We just make the wrong assumptions a lot of times when people give us hard feedback or when they tell us uncomfortable truths, but most of the time, when people take the time to tell you a hard truth or to have a difficult conversation with you, they're doing it because they care about you or they care about the relationship, and they haven't necessarily known how to show it and how to communicate it. And so what happens is, um, we show up and, you know, we're, we're actually trying to help somebody else grow, and they take it as a blow. They think, "You're attacking me," or, "You're judging me," when in fact you're, you're just trying to lift them up.
- MRMel Robbins
I wanna talk to parents and grandparents who are watching right now, because school's now started, and you probably have a better sense of where your kids are thriving and where they may need a little extra support. So I'd like to tell you about our sponsor, IXL. IXL is an award-winning online learning platform that helps your kids truly understand what they're learning, and it's for kids from pre-K all the way through 12th grade. They offer personalized interactive learning that adapts to your child's level, pace, and learning needs, whether your kid needs more practice with a challenging concept or they're ready to keep progressing. That way, your kids can practice what they're learning in school, it reinforces the concepts that they know, and they can spend more time on the skills where they need a little bit extra support, and that's gonna help them build confidence along the way. You can make an impact on your child's learning by getting IXL right now. And The Mel Robbins Podcast listeners, that's you, can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when you sign up today at ixl.com/mel. Visit ixl.com/mel to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price.
- 46:42 – 58:32
How to Have Better Relationships With Anyone
- MRMel Robbins
I love what you write in your new blockbuster, Vibe. This one is so good. This is on page four. "There's even evidence that if we're standing with a friend, a hill looks less steep. It propels our best work and our biggest breakthroughs, enabling us to do together what we can't do alone." Talk to us about the power of other people and the vibe that we create with them.
- AGAdam Grant
Well, I think that a vibe is more than a feeling. It's not just the sense of energy and chemistry and time flying when we interact with other people. When neuroscientists study those moments where we feel like we really vibed, they find that our brainwaves and our heartbeats synchronize.
- MRMel Robbins
Heartbeats?
- AGAdam Grant
Heartbeats.
- MRMel Robbins
No way.
- AGAdam Grant
Yeah. When you're vibing with somebody else, you are actually, your hearts are beating in a common rhythm.
- MRMel Robbins
That's so cool.
- AGAdam Grant
It is, right? And it's part of what produces the feeling that we're really hitting it off. And I think that in those moments, we believe that we got lucky, that we just found our match, and I think that is, that's occasionally true. But most of the time, a vibe is not something you match for. You're not looking for a soulmate. It's actually something that you build through routines and rituals, through how you interact. And I think if we make more deliberate choices, we can't engineer better connections, but we can set the conditions that improve our chances of really finding common ground with other people.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay. How do I do that?
- AGAdam Grant
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
Because I think that sounds incredible. Because you do have those experiences where you feel in flow with somebody else, and you're not talking about a romantic relationship, you're talking about friendship, you're talking about colleagues, you're talking about, like, y- you could be on a team at work or a Little League team where the vibe Just feels like this glue. So how do you create the conditions for that in your relationships?
- AGAdam Grant
I think the most important thing is to be clear about what kind of vibe you're trying to build.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, okay. Well, how do I know that?
- AGAdam Grant
Well, this is a new revelation for me. So I've synthesized data from thousands and thousands of people across many countries in the world, and the light bulb moment for me was there are actually three different kinds of vibes. And they exist in romantic relationships, they exist in friendships, they exist in collaborations. In any kind of connection, we can be allies, pals, or companions.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, allies, pals, or companions. Let's break them apart.
- AGAdam Grant
Allies are people who share your goals. You're on a mission together. Pals are people who share your interests and hobbies. You have fun together. Companions are people who share your values. You care about each other. And Mel, I cannot tell you how many of our misconnections, how many of our disappointing interactions are because we're on different wavelengths. So I come into a conversation with you thinking that we're gonna be companions or that we already are companions, and I tell you about a really difficult moment, and I open up about the grief that I'm going through because I lost somebody that I care about.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- AGAdam Grant
And you kinda give a perfunctory, "I'm so sorry for your loss," and you never mention it again. And you don't check in with me a couple days later. You don't follow up a month later, and I feel betrayed. I feel like you are not the person I thought you were. You're not my friend. What I am missing in that moment is you may not be a good companion for me, but we could still be great pals.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- AGAdam Grant
We have a blast doing karaoke together. Actually, we don't. I can't sing or dance.
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- AGAdam Grant
But if I could, maybe we would. Um, we really love playing pickleball or padel together. We have a great time in a book club together. Those are all pal interactions, and I've, I've tried to interact with you on the wrong wavelength. We might also be great allies. You might be somebody that I don't necessarily like interacting with, but I work really well together because you have complementary skills, and you complete me in a professional way, but maybe you're not the shoulder that I would lean on. Maybe you're not the best person to confide in. And this is what the evidence shows clearly, is many of our dissatisfying relationships and even just interactions come from the fact that we have misaligned expectations. And if we can get on the same page about the fact that we both wanna be pals or that you're looking for allyship or you're seeking companionship, then we have a much better chance of vibing, and then we can actually find the right routines and rituals that get us on that wavelength together.
- MRMel Robbins
Adam Grant, you're a damn genius. I, I'm not kidding 'cause I, I wanna unpack this. David Kessler, the extraordinary expert on finding meaning after grief and devastating things that happen in life, has this saying that I've never forgotten. When you are seeking something from someone who cannot provide it, it's like looking for milk in a hardware store.
- AGAdam Grant
[laughs] It's a great analogy.
- MRMel Robbins
Right? And when you said the example of trying to connect with somebody or getting support from somebody that you're interacting with, like a deep companion that shares your values, that is able to show up for you in a way that just works, and you're doing that from a pal, that's like looking for milk in a hardware store.
- AGAdam Grant
So true.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with your pal.
- AGAdam Grant
No. They're just, they're just not the right companion for you.
- MRMel Robbins
Correct.
- AGAdam Grant
And they might even be a good companion for someone else. I mean, the reason that example was so salient for me is 'cause it happened to me. Um, during, during COVID, my wife Allison was diagnosed with breast cancer, and I didn't talk to a lot of people about it. I, I'm not somebody who seeks a lot of companionship. Like, I think my go-to way of interacting with people is as allies first and maybe pals second. Yeah, so I was catching up with, with a friend, uh, who had confided in me in the past about some difficult experiences he was going through with his wife and also with his work. And he asked me how I was dealing with COVID.
- 58:32 – 1:01:25
The 3 Career Skills You Should Learn Today
- MRMel Robbins
absolutely love this. What are you saying to your students at Wharton about careers and the number one skill that they need to be thinking about?
- AGAdam Grant
I think that, I, I actually think there are three skills that are critical now. The first one is we have gone from a world of information scarcity to information abundance. And what that means is you used to achieve success by collecting facts. I- in a knowledge economy, the person who had the most expertise was the most valued. Now, in a world of information abundance, that's no longer true. And what matters is not collecting facts, it's connecting dots. It's the ability to recognize patterns, to synthesize different pieces of information, to reconcile competing ideas, that ultimately, I think, is gonna help people succeed. And so I think if the past belonged to the fact collectors, the future belongs to the dot connectors.
- MRMel Robbins
I love that.
- AGAdam Grant
That's the first one. Secondly, I think the, the currency of career growth used to be ability. The more capable you were, the faster you rose. That was true in a stable world. Now we live in a dynamic world, where the pace of change is accelerating. What matters now is not your ability, it's your agility. The people who rise the fastest, the people who achieve the greatest success, are the ones with the greatest motivation and ability to learn. And the third one is, I think the one thing that bots and machines cannot easily replicate is human experience. Live interaction is really hard to substitute for, and I think people are complicated. I think conversation is messy. But if you get good at understanding other people's needs and goals, at helping them grapple with their challenges, at being a good friend, being a good advisor, being a curious question asker, then you are bringing something indispensable that other people have a hard time finding. When I think about what it means to master the art of connecting with other people, I think about a term, it's inverse charisma.
- MRMel Robbins
Inverse charisma.
- AGAdam Grant
Ism- Yeah, inverse charisma. I originally came across it, E.M. Forster's biographer coined the term. Forster A- apparently had this magical ability to make you more charismatic when he talked to you because he asked such thoughtful questions and listened so attentively, and then asked you follow-ups that brought out a sharper, wiser, more magnetic version of you. And I think that if charisma was what made people successful in the social media era, it's inverse charisma, the ability to make others more charismatic, that might drive success in the AI era.
- 1:01:25 – 1:04:23
What to do When You’re Overwhelmed
- MRMel Robbins
Knowing that you're one of the most sought-after speakers and teachers and consultants in the corporate space, I bet you're getting this question over and over and over again, and I would love to hear your thoughts on this. For the person that feels like they are under an avalanche at work, between all of the tech platforms, the changing demands with AI, the fact that there's a reduction in the number of people on your team, it... How do you know what to focus on? Like, 'cause this is a question I get at every single place I speak to, and it feels as though people are on a treadmill and it's just somebody's making you go faster and faster and faster and faster and faster. And so what I hear under that question is, how do I even know what's important? 'Cause when everything's important, nothing's important.
- AGAdam Grant
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
But I don't know what to do because the pressure's nonstop.
- AGAdam Grant
This, this is actually a great moment to come full circle because I, I struggle with this all the time. Like, what book do I wanna write next? [laughs] What podcast topics do I wanna take on? What class do I wanna teach? What research projects do I wanna launch? Like, I could study anything. I could learn about anything. I could communicate about anything. I don't know what's, what's important and what to prioritize. I think what I've learned as I've, you know, as I've stumbled a bunch of times through that is you wanna pay attention not just to what lights you up and to what other people need, but also, where do you have the most unique value to add? And I think this is a question that a lot of people overlook is if you think about your job, it doesn't matter what's in your job description. What matters is what is the thing that you can do that other people can't? What is the task or the project or the interpersonal dynamic that makes you irreplaceable? That's what you should prioritize because that's the contribution that is going to last and that's gonna make the most impact. Ideally, you're trying to align where you add unique value to what the mission of your organization is. And I think that for me, mission is about impact. That's clearly a value you share. I think one of the questions that, that I love to reflect on is if you were not doing your job, who would be worse off?
- MRMel Robbins
Ooh.
- AGAdam Grant
Like, if you had never entered this field, if you had never joined this organization, if you'd never pursued this career or taken this role, who would be suffering? And when you start to name specific people or groups of people, they might be clients or customers or patients or readers-
- MRMel Robbins
Colleagues.
- AGAdam Grant
Yeah, colleagues even. W- whoever comes to mind, those people are the reason why your work matters. And if you don't know what to prioritize, find out how those people are hurting right now and look for ways to help them.
- MRMel Robbins
Ooh, that's a good one. And it could even start with just checking in with the person you report to and saying, "What's the biggest problem that I can work on for you that would make your life easier?" You will become indispensable if that's what you do.
- AGAdam Grant
Absolutely. What is your hardest problem right now?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes. Yes. I
- 1:04:23 – 1:06:23
How to Have Better Conversations
- MRMel Robbins
love that. Is there any advice on how you create inverse charisma?
- AGAdam Grant
If you're trying to create inverse charisma, there are a few things you can do. One is you shorten your, your talking time. Too many interactions are people just alternating monologues. It's true. Like, somebody asks you, "How was your day?" And you launch into a 19-minute rant. You have lost the other person, and that was a bad question, by the way. [laughs] You should not ask someone, "How was your day?" What, what you wanna do is ask somebody a question that elicits a really interesting one to two-minute answer, and that question might be, if we're talking about, you know, just catching up, it might be, "Tell me about what surprised you the most today. Let me go to a specific emotion. Tell me [laughs] about your peak moment of joy. What was your biggest frustration today? Who irritated you? What did they do?" And then you give that quick answer, and then I'm gonna then kinda rebound on that. I'm gonna riff on that, and we're gonna have a novel conversation that we've never had before.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- AGAdam Grant
My, my oldest daughter actually, uh, taught me a great example of a question that immediately elicits inverse charisma. She loves to ask people, "Do you think aliens are out there?"
- MRMel Robbins
Ooh, I love that.
- AGAdam Grant
It's such a good question because it's not hard to answer. People have an immediate yes or no, and then they, they usually respond with a lot of enthusiasm and they'll say, "Absolutely. Haven't you seen Contact or Interstellar? Of course." Or they say, "No, not at all." And then she, she says, "Why?" Like, "Unpack that for me." And then they get fired up explaining their reasoning, and then they immediately get curious about what she thinks. Inverse charisma starts with asking people a question that you cannot wait to hear their answer to, and that as they answer it, it's gonna spark new thoughts in you and you're both gonna learn something from whatever transpires, and you can't
- 1:06:23 – 1:11:02
How to Get the Recognition You Deserve at Work
- AGAdam Grant
predict where the conversation is gonna go.
- MRMel Robbins
I love that. Adam, one topic I'd love to have you teach us a little bit about is the work that you've done, the research you've done, the research that you synthesized by some amazing colleagues and people that you respect about the reality of women in the workplace and the things that are unfair that are happening to us that we may not be aware of and the things that we need to start doing differently so that we can succeed.
- AGAdam Grant
To be honest, Mel, I, I'm actually embarrassed. I was late to this conversation. For the first few years of my career, I avoided talking about gender differences in the workplace. I avoided talking about all the evidence that women are still held back- ... professionally. And I, I just said, as a man, it's not my place. I don't wanna speak for women. And several of my female colleagues actually sat me down, and Nancy Rothbard and Sigal Barsade in particular, they sat me down and they said, "It matters for a man to call out these problems. We wish it didn't, but it does." And sure enough, there is evidence showing that when women point out the gaps and disparities, people unfairly malign them as self-serving or complaining or whining. Whereas when a man points it out, people take it really seriously. And I wish that were not true, but it is. And so I think my first responsibility as a feminist is to call attention to the data, to a lot of the research that's being done, especially by women as well as men, that documents what the barriers are to advancement and success, and then how we can collectively overcome them.
- MRMel Robbins
So if you're in a situation where you're working very hard and your head is down and you're not getting promoted, you're not getting paid what you want, you're not even getting the feedback, and you're seeing people that are less qualified, or you're seeing the idiot that's always, like, talking in the meeting get the job that you actually deserve, what are some of the things you want women in particular to think about?
- AGAdam Grant
Well, let's talk about Linda Babcock's research-
- MRMel Robbins
Okay
- AGAdam Grant
... 'cause it's been eye-opening for me. Uh, what Linda shows is that women do a disproportionate amount of the office housework. Just like women carry an unfair share of the load at home of, you know, cooking and cleaning and driving places, they also do an undue amount of the thankless work at work. They are tasked with taking notes in meetings, with planning parties, with creating agendas, and I think that this is a huge problem. It's a big problem because these are tasks that need to be done, but they are not considered strategic.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- AGAdam Grant
And therefore, they don't count in a performance review, they're not valued in a promotion, and women are both asked to do these tasks more often because people assume, "Oh, she's caring. She's warm. She wants to help." Whereas a man, I never would've expected him to care about another human being. I'm, I'm not gonna bother to ask. And then what Linda shows w- in her research with her colleagues is if women say no, they are penalized more-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- AGAdam Grant
... because they are violating the gender stereotype-
- MRMel Robbins
Ah
- AGAdam Grant
... that pressures them to say yes to everything. W- whereas if a man says no, nobody minds. If a woman says yes, it's taken for granted. She wants to help. Whereas a man s- says yes, he gets showered with praise and rewards. What a good guy. What I've taken away from, from Linda's work in this area is, number one, we need to stop dumping the office housework on women. Number two, women need to be given permission to say no. Uh, Linda started a no club. It's a group of women who actually share their requests, and they encourage each other to say no. And I think the question of how to do that is a really important one. So what, what does a good no look like? An effective no is a no that actually shows helpfulness and kindness.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- AGAdam Grant
It's, "Hey, thank you so much for inviting me to be on the furniture committee. I am so honored that you respect my taste enough that you want me to design the chairs and arrange them. I just wanted to share with you, I have been actually asked to do a fair number of things that I, I originally did not know were part of my job. And just so you have visibility into my role, here are all the things that I'm doing. I wanna make sure that I'm prioritizing what really matters here. Can you help me think through which of these things I should be doing and which ones I should not have on my plate?"
- MRMel Robbins
That's beautiful, because you now just put it back on me, and you did it in a way that was super amazing and sneaky. Because you teed up all the things you're working on, which as your manager, I probably had no clue you were doing that much stuff. And so you turned a no into a point of visibility and getting clarity on strategy.
- 1:11:02 – 1:14:02
How Women Can Negotiate More Effectively
- AGAdam Grant
That's the goal.
- MRMel Robbins
Um, what is one thing that you would tell your daughters, because you are a girl dad, um, that is something that is an important skill to be thinking about if you do want to be promoted and seen as a strategic contributor?
- AGAdam Grant
I'm gonna say something that I am uncomfortable saying 'cause I wish it weren't true, but I've had this conversation with my daughters. I think it is a travesty, it's 2026, that we are still in a world where when women assert their ideas, advocate for their skills, ask for promotions, they often get backlash. It's been called the, the likability penalty, and it's not actually competence that other people are threatened by, especially insecure men. It's agency ambition or what's sometimes, I think, unhelpfully called dominance. And that's where we see, this is Ashley Rosette and her colleagues' research, the specific backlash against agentic women happens when people feel like, well, she's being too strong and too tough, and therefore, she is violating expectations of kindness and of humility. And I think that's an unfortunate reality. I think that needs to change. But I think in the meantime, I think that women need to be armed with that knowledge, and the conversation I've had with my daughters is the following. What I've said to them is, "Do not shy away from asserting your ideas. But know, unfortunately, when you're assertive, you are more likely to be stereotyped as aggressive than when I'm assertive, and that is wrong, full stop. But what that means is you have to work extra hard when you assert your ideas to also show openness to other people's views."
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- AGAdam Grant
It means if you're gonna ask for a promotion, unfairly, you have to do a little bit of extra work to explain how you are gonna make that the best possible situation for the team or the organization, that you're not just asking for yourself. You even see this in negotiation. Uh, Linda Babcock and Hannah Riley Bowles have done some great experiments on this, where they study how you can actually ask for a raise, and y- you can even ask for a raise for yourself in ways that signal care and concern So you come in and you say, "Hey, Mel, um, I, you know, I, I'm, I'm really excited about this job. I would love to take it. There's one hesitation, which is the salary, and I'm, I'm hoping you can makes it, make this an easy decision for me. I am gonna negotiate for myself the way that I will represent you if you hire me. I am going to be tough but fair. I am gonna aim extremely high, but I'm gonna do that respectfully. And so I'm actually gonna demonstrate my negotiating skills in our negotiation, and I hope you want that on the team."
- MRMel Robbins
Amazing.
- AGAdam Grant
Men should be doing this, too, by the way.
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- AGAdam Grant
Everybody who's looking for a raise or a promotion should be negotiating that in ways that say, "This is not just about me. It's going to serve others as well." But unfortunately, it's more important for women to do that given the world of gender stereotypes we live in.
- 1:14:02 – 1:17:31
You Can Unlock Your Potential at Any Age
- MRMel Robbins
You know, we've covered so much. If there's one takeaway or skill or thing you want the person to do-
- AGAdam Grant
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
... after everything that you've taught us that you think is really important, just take a highlighter and say, "I don't want you to forget this thing. Like, I want you to try-
- AGAdam Grant
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... this thing," what would it be?
- AGAdam Grant
The big takeaway of this conversation for me is that it's never too late.
- MRMel Robbins
Ah.
- AGAdam Grant
It is never too late to find your hidden potential and unlock it. It is never too late to reach out to somebody that you lost contact with and get back in touch. It is never too late to ask for a raise or a promotion, not only because you believe you deserve it, but because you're ready to earn it. And I think that so often we write ourselves off, we write relationships off, we write opportunities off because we think we missed the window, and we didn't. Milton Berle said, "When opportunity doesn't knock, build a door." And I think that's great, but I think first you should look for a window you can open.
- MRMel Robbins
Uh, or a rock-
- AGAdam Grant
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
... that you can break apart so you can see all of this incredible potential inside.
- AGAdam Grant
And then you can throw the rock through the window-
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- AGAdam Grant
... if you need to break it.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes. Adam Grant, what are your parting words?
- AGAdam Grant
I, I just wanna say thank you. This is such a professional experience, and I've learned so much, not only about the topics I care so deeply about, but also about how to, how to create a really meaningful conversation, and it's just been, it's been a privilege to be a part of it. Thank you.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, uh, the honor has been all mine. Thank you for the work that you do. Thank you for the way that you teach. Thank you for the passion that you bring to the work that you're doing. You have made me a better leader. You've made me a better companion, ally, and pal. I mean it. I don't really have the words to explain the impact that you've had on the person that I've become.
- AGAdam Grant
Wow.
- MRMel Robbins
So thank you.
- AGAdam Grant
Thank you for that.
- MRMel Robbins
You're welcome. And I also wanna thank you. Thank you for making time and for spending it with Adam and with me. There is so much that I am gonna go right back, actually, after I'm done talking to you and re-listen to this. I have pages and pages-
- AGAdam Grant
Me too
- MRMel Robbins
... of notes. And I am so excited for you, and I'm excited for everybody that you share this with. And one of the big things I wanna leave you with is this. The next time you find yourself locked in overthinking, "Is it this? Is it that?" Remember, door C. And if you don't wanna open the door, pick up the damn rock and throw it through the window. There's your door [laughs] and window C. And in case nobody else tells you, I wanted to be sure, as your friend, to remind you that I love you, and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And absolutely everything that Adam taught you today, every takeaway based on the research, is how you create a better life, and I truly hope you do it. All right. I will see you in the next episode. I'm gonna welcome you in the moment you hit play. And thank you for watching all the way to the end here on YouTube. I know you loved it, and I loved being with you. And thank you for sharing this with people in your life that you care about. All righty, I know you wanna watch another episode of The Mel Robbins Podcast. You're gonna love this one next, and I'll welcome you in the moment you hit play. [outro music]
Episode duration: 1:17:31
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode -YRkpHOkDJM
