The Mel Robbins PodcastIf You Only Watch One Video Today, Make It This One
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,005 words- 0:00 – 4:15
Meet The Guest
- MRMel Robbins
(instrumental music plays) Today on the Mel Robbins podcast, one of the most motivational episodes you will ever experience. In fact, I'm gonna go on the record and say, this is my favorite episode to date. You are not prepared, and neither was I, for the absolute force of nature that is Emma Grede.
- EGEmma Grede
Anything is possible if you really put your mind to it. And this is the big thing that I want specifically women to understand. When you have nothing, and I have been there, how you do anything is how you do everything.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
When I, you know, made sandwiches in a deli, I made the best sandwich. When I worked in the cupboard packing clothes, I would do it with excellence.
- MRMel Robbins
I love you so much. There's just a grit to you and there's grit plus an amazingly huge heart.
- EGEmma Grede
I was brought up in East London, which is a bit like the rough side of the tracks. I'm the oldest of four girls raised by a wonderful single mum. Life was a little bit tough. You know, my mum did the best that she could with the little that she had. I wanted to live a different life and work in something that was enjoyable, because again, where I grew up, everyone did a job to pay their bills. I had spent 10 years building my career at the intersection of brands and fashion.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
I had a fantastic understanding of what works in fashion and where the white space was.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- EGEmma Grede
I really understood what was missing.
- MRMel Robbins
Got it.
- EGEmma Grede
Where was there a problem that I could find a solution for? And Good American was a solution. Most women are massively underserved by the fashion industry, and so I pitched Chris and Khloé.
- MRMel Robbins
Pull up a chair and put us in the meeting in terms of how that meeting went.
- EGEmma Grede
I really approached that meeting saying, "Hey, I have this golden, brilliant thing, and this is going to be the next big thing in fashion."
- MRMel Robbins
So, what happened next?
- EGEmma Grede
Oh, it was a disaster, Mel (laughs) .
- MRMel Robbins
What is kinda the biggest lesson from your experience launching Good American?
- EGEmma Grede
I would say that my biggest learning has actually been, that might not be what people wanna hear, but that is the truth.
- MRMel Robbins
That's what they need to hear. Welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.
- EGEmma Grede
Thank you so much for having me.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
I am so happy to be here.
- MRMel Robbins
I am so excited to have you here. I can't wait to learn from you and I know the person that is here with us is excited, too. And so I'd love to start by having you just share with the person who's here, what could they experience that could be different about their life or their future if they take everything that you're about to teach us and share with us today to heart?
- EGEmma Grede
I love that as a place to start. I honestly think about my life, and more specifically, my career, as a bit of a blueprint for what happens when you, A, take responsibility for yourself, and when you really manage your thoughts carefully. And I think if there's anything that I've learned, it's that the combination of those two things will take you really, really far in life.
- MRMel Robbins
So, taking responsibility for yourself and your life.
- EGEmma Grede
Yeah, and choosing your thoughts really carefully.
- MRMel Robbins
Choosing your thoughts really carefully.
- EGEmma Grede
Yes, 'cause it's a choice.
- MRMel Robbins
And when you do that, what happens?
- EGEmma Grede
You know, when you do that, somehow, your life starts to align. And it's really interesting because it's a practice. Like, I feel like I'm in practice to be the woman that I wanna be constantly, and so I have to really think about those things. And so when you bring those two things together, it allows you to be really, really purposeful, and the outcome starts to just manifest. Like, it starts to actually happen.
- 4:15 – 11:53
Emma’s Story as a 17-Year-Old College Dropout
- MRMel Robbins
so I wanna go back to the beginning, to East London, and talk about what life looked like when you were little.
- EGEmma Grede
Well, you know, I was brought up in East London, which is a bit like, you know, if you were born in Harlem or Crenshaw or something like that. Like, maybe, you know, the rough side of the tracks, if you wanna see it like that. Um, I'm the oldest of four girls raised by a wonderful, wonderful single mum. And you know, we, um, I guess life was a little bit tough. You know, my mum did the best that she could with the little that she had. And you know, I always think about our relationship dynamics as like, you know, she was the dad, I was the mum, and we had three kids together.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
(laughs) You know? I was a very, uh, parentified child, if you like to say it that way, and, um, I've a very, very close relationship with my three sisters as a result of that, 'cause I was really part of raising them and, you know, looking after them. I used to get up in the morning and iron three school shirts and make three packed lunches and send them off to school. And sometimes, you know, I wouldn't go to school myself. I'd be exhausted (laughs) by that point. You know, I was really raised by a family. Like, my mum's family, her sisters, her mum, were huge, huge parts of, of our life.
- MRMel Robbins
It checks out, honestly, because you're so driven and you are the kind of person that I feel like you see something, you just do it. How do you think your childhood and that experience of taking care of your little sisters has impacted and shaped who you are today?
- EGEmma Grede
You know, in so many ways, and good and bad, if I'm honest. You know, I learned at a very young age to take a lot of responsibility for myself, but I was always on very high alert, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
Where I lived wasn't particularly safe, and so you had to think a few steps ahead constantly. But it also gave me this idea that I needed to get far away from where I was. I was very aware that my circumstances would be limited if I stayed where I was from, and so I had this idea that I would need to work really, really hard to get out of this place.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- EGEmma Grede
But I knew I would, in a way. I just felt like, "I don't know what I'm gonna do, I don't know how this is gonna work, but I've gotta get out of here."
- MRMel Robbins
I think a lot of people feel like that.
- EGEmma Grede
Oh, yeah. Totally.
- MRMel Robbins
And so if the person that's listening or watching right now-... feels that way, but they are not sure that they're going to get out.
- EGEmma Grede
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
What would you say to them? 'Cause you have already said two things, "You've got to take responsibility for yourself, for your life, for where you're going," and, "You've got to choose your thoughts."
- EGEmma Grede
Oh, yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
So, if you have this sense, like, "There's more for me, I gotta get outta here. I want to have something different," but then your thoughts are like, "Uh, it worked for Emma, but I'm not that kinda person." What would you say?
- EGEmma Grede
Well, you know, the other thing is, Mel, so many people that come from a place like where I come from, there's this sense that you'll be abandoning where you come from. That actually-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
... it's the wrong thought to have. You're like, "This, this is who I am, this is where I come from, this is part of me." And what I would say to that person is, "You don't have to leave where you come from in your heart." I'm still the girl I always was. I'm the girl from Plaistow. I will always be that girl. I just left that place. And so, you don't have to give up who you are and what made you you if you leave that physical space. You can still be and have that heart of gold and that sense of scrappiness and whatever made you great. And I think that that is really, really important, because that's what troubled me so much.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
That I would leave the people that made me me, that I would leave those family members and those friends that were so pivotal to me as I grew up. The truth is, that those people are with me every single day. Like, that's just who I am. And I would say that, you know, anything is possible if you really put your mind to it. But you are not going to manifest your way out of anything. You have to take those thoughts and everything that you want and you've gotta couple it with something. And for me, that has been hard work. There is no secret. The secret is, I had the vision and I put it together with some really, really hard work. And that's what you have to do.
- MRMel Robbins
I love you so much. I, I, I really do, because there is a, there's just a grit to you, and there is grit plus an amazingly huge heart. And so, what a beautiful thing to say, that you can change where you are, but that doesn't change who you are.
- EGEmma Grede
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
Love that.
- EGEmma Grede
I'm still me.
- MRMel Robbins
Ah, you, clearly. You know, you also said something earlier about how you are constantly asking yourself, and reminding yourself, about the woman you want to be.
- EGEmma Grede
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
What kind of woman do you want to be? Like, when you think about it.
- EGEmma Grede
Well, you know, I think that, for me, what's been really important, and actually, you get to a place where you're successful, and there's this sense of responsibility in me, right?
- 11:53 – 18:46
How to Get Unstuck and Take the First Step
- EGEmma Grede
something that we talk about enough in, you know, in media or in society right now. You are on a journey. Like, it doesn't just happen. This idea of overnight success that we've built, especially around entrepreneurial- Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... -ism and around starting a business, like, it's a lovely story, but it's not a career path and it's not really truthful. And so, I thought I was owed something. And it wasn't till I kinda got to about 19, I was like, "Nobody owes you nothing," that things started to fall into place for me.
- EGEmma Grede
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
I think I just heard the person who's watching and listening, share-
- EGEmma Grede
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... share, share. Because we can spot that attitude in other people. Like, I, I would imagine, 'cause I have two people in my mind right now that I'm like, "That's the issue."They're sitting around, pissed off, blaming the world-
- EGEmma Grede
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... when they're fully capable of picking themselves up exactly where they are and figuring it out. What would you say to somebody who is stuck in that blame, does think that they are owed something? 'Cause it's so easy to kinda get stuck in that place yourself, where you convince yourself that it's not gonna be easy or you convince yourself that you are owed something, and then the anger does consume you.
- EGEmma Grede
Mm. And let's be honest, like some people are dealt an unfair hand.
- MRMel Robbins
Of course.
- EGEmma Grede
Sometimes you've got stuff to be angry about.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- EGEmma Grede
Sometimes it's not something that you made up in your head, it's your reality. You know, I'm a woman, I'm Black, I grew up poor. I think I had something to be a little bit mad about, right? Having said that, it wasn't serving me. And I think at the end of this, we've gotta say, "Is this thing that I'm holding onto, is it optimal? Is it working for me?" And if it ain't, you gotta let it go. And that's just that. Because what is useful to us is the idea that we're gonna like have this baggage, but we're gonna leave it, and we're gonna use what is in us to propel ourselves forward. If what you've got is keeping you stuck, leave it. Like walk away.
- MRMel Robbins
How the hell do you do that?
- EGEmma Grede
I think the real way that you do it is by having some acceptance of it-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- EGEmma Grede
... and saying, "You know what? This is what it is, and I accept that. And that's okay, and I'm still going to move forward. I'm still not gonna allow this to hold me back. That is not my story. It's just not what I want."
- MRMel Robbins
And did you know what you wanted?
- EGEmma Grede
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
What did you want?
- EGEmma Grede
You know, I just wanted to-
- MRMel Robbins
I love that. You're like, "Yes."
- EGEmma Grede
I wanted to escape my situation. You know, I've been obsessed with fashion since before I can even remember, but for me, it was a means of escape. It was like, you know, I grew up in London, it was all about the supermodels, Naomi Campbell and Kate Moss and all the cool designers. And I used that and, you know, that industry, those people, looking in the magazines a- as a means of escapism. There was something to dream for, something to, you know, look forward to, something to aspire to.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- EGEmma Grede
I wanted to get out of where I was so bad, Mel. Like I can't even tell you. I wanted to live a different life and work in something that was enjoyable. Because again, where I grew up, everyone did a job to pay their bills.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- EGEmma Grede
I don't know anyone who had a fulfilling career.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
(laughs) You know, it just wasn't even part of the vernacular then.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- 18:46 – 27:03
Why There’s No Secret to Success
- EGEmma Grede
excellent. I really understand the power of, like, how you do anything is how you do everything.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
And this idea of excellence, of taking it seriously how you wake up in the morning, of taking it seriously how you prepare your breakfast, taking it seriously how you show up in work, how you see people. Like, do you go, "Morning," or do you go, "Morning. How are you?" And do you listen and respond back? Like, all of these things matter. They matter to who you are, they matter to how you're seen, and they matter to how you're, you're viewed. When I, you know, made sandwiches in a deli, I made the best sandwich. When I worked in the cupboard in a PR agency (laughs) packing cloves, I would fold those cloves beautifully in my boxes, my tissue was amazing, my sticker was in the middle. I would do it with excellence, every little thing, because that is what makes people gravitate towards you. When you take everything that you do seriously, and you take an element of pride in anything-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
... it draws people in. And, you know, you have to work a lot of dog jobs before you get the thing. Life is very, very long and it goes in chapters. And so, what I say to people is, "Be excellent at where you're at, at whatever you're doing, because that has some kind of invisible magnetic pull."
- MRMel Robbins
Terry Crews tells this incredible story about being dead broke after getting out of the NFL, and he's moved his wife and four kids to LA, and he thinks he's gonna be an illustrator, and then all of a sudden, the, like, digital illustration stuff is happening. And he is at the end of his rope, depressed, can't get work, and he gets a job sweeping. Literally a custodian on a, on, like, a movie lot. And he kept himself going by saying, "I- how would I sweep this floor if somebody was paying me a million dollars to do it?"
- EGEmma Grede
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And to me, what you're saying is if you simply don't know where to start, you just gave the most brilliant advice on the planet. What would it look like to wake up tomorrow morning and start the day with excellence? What would it look like to wake up tomorrow morning? And how would you do it if somebody was paying you a million dollars to just get out of bed and make your bed? What would your morning look like?
- EGEmma Grede
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
What happens internally? Because there, there is the thing that people are drawn to you, because it is true.
- EGEmma Grede
Because the vibration within you literally changes. Like, you vibrate a different energy. If you wake up with a smile on your face and you say, maybe if somebody's in the bed with you, "Good morning, darling. I made you a cup of tea," like, what does that say? That says, "I value you. The morning is good, and here we are together, and I just acknowledged you." Like, what, who doesn't want to wake up like that? And if nobody's next to you and you stretch your arms like this and you put nice pajamas on because you care about yourself and you make your bed and you walk away and you're like, "Look at that bed."
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
Like, that is, like, that's the dream. That's, and that's what I say to my kids. I remake their beds, by the way.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
But that's not the point. You know, the, it's, it's, like, how you do anything is how you do everything. And that is the key. You've got to start, you've got to sweat the small stuff, and you have to start somewhere. And when you have nothing, and I have been there, that works, because that starts to set the tone. And people notice. They really, really notice.
- MRMel Robbins
I wanna go back in time. (laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
Oh! What does this smell? (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
It's a photo of you-
- EGEmma Grede
Are you k-
- MRMel Robbins
... when you were 17 years old.
- EGEmma Grede
Oh, look. And these two are still my darling. They're, I'm literally having dinner with these two in London next week, Cella and Chanel.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you that photo as a, as your present for being here-
- EGEmma Grede
Oh.
- MRMel Robbins
... on the podcast. You're 17 years old.
- EGEmma Grede
Aw.
- MRMel Robbins
You had just left-
- EGEmma Grede
Yeah, I just-
- MRMel Robbins
... college.
- EGEmma Grede
I just, I just left-
- MRMel Robbins
So tell us about that moment and-
- 27:03 – 32:19
Pursuing Excellence Over Perfection
- MRMel Robbins
How do you pursue excellence versus the trap of being perfect? Like, what's the difference between excellence and that perfectionism trap that women get stuck in?
- EGEmma Grede
That is such a beautiful question. I think that you have to learn, and this is going to sound... and I don't want it to sound self-limiting. We all have a different measuring stick, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- EGEmma Grede
What is perfect to you is not perfect to me.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- EGEmma Grede
And I think that we have to be realistic with ourselves. And so what I've done in my life is really think about myself. I'm not thinking, I'm not looking in the media, I'm not on social, I'm not in a magazine trying to live up to that version. I'm like, "What is my version of excellence based on where I come from and who I am? What's good enough for me?" 'Cause I'm not comparing myself to anyone else. You know, you and I both love that same quote, right? It's like, "It's you against you."
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- EGEmma Grede
That's it. And that's where you have to be very, very honest and very self-reflective, because if you are gonna be in the comparison game, you will never be satisfied. You will never be happy.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, I think I just got it. I wanna extract what you just said and give it back to you and see if we... if you... if I heard you correctly, 'cause I think I just got the difference. You ready? So, perfectionism is when you are focused on the outside.
- EGEmma Grede
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Perfectionism is when you are measuring what other people are going to think about what you just did. Excellence is on the inside, because excellence is about the effort in and whether or not the effort that you put in is good enough for you.
- EGEmma Grede
That right there, Mel.
- MRMel Robbins
That's really a great distinction. I've never thought about it that way, 'cause I've, I've always thought about, like, perfectionism, because so many women in particular struggle with it, as something that you're doing internally.
- EGEmma Grede
No, it's... It all... It's coming at you-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- EGEmma Grede
... from every angle all the time, and you have to be very, very careful as a woman that that doesn't start to define you, that that doesn't seep into you, right? Because the minute that goes inside you, you're in trouble. And, you know, I have this great friend, Diane von Furstenberg, she's the most insane and incredible woman ever. But she talks about this idea of the most important relationship you'll ever have is the relationship you have with yourself. And so you've got to be real careful that your biggest enemy isn't living between-
- MRMel Robbins
Ah.
- EGEmma Grede
... your two ears, right? It's like this conversation that goes on all day that's relentless has to be kind. It has to be compassionate. It has to be empathetic. These are all things that we give away to other people, if you're a good person, all the time. But it starts with you. You have to give that stuff to yourself first and foremost, and when you start to do that, and when you start a daily practice that says, "I am gonna behave like this to myself. When I speak to myself, this is how I'm gonna be," that rewires you.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, even talking to yourself that way is, in itself, its own form of excellence.
- EGEmma Grede
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
Right? Because you operate-
- EGEmma Grede
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... that way in the world, that level of excellence with other people-
- EGEmma Grede
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and so it's a beautiful way to think about talking to yourself in a kind and cheering and empathetic way as a form of excellence with yourself.
- EGEmma Grede
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
I love that. What would you say to somebody that is kind of at the beginning of the journey in their career right now, trying to figure it out?
- EGEmma Grede
You know, Mel, honestly, what I would say is that everything you want is on the other side of what you're working towards. You've just gotta be working.It's all there. Everything you want is there. It's just gotta find you working, and that's it. You can't think your way into what you want. You can't wish it, you can't hope for it, you gotta do. And that's where this perfectionist trap is poisonous for us-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- EGEmma Grede
...because if you think that you have to do it perfectly or it has to come in some, you know, spectacular way, or this thing that you wanna do has to be really big, it doesn't. It's like, just start. Just do something and know that if you are doing, if you have forward momentum, if you are moving in the correct direction of travel, you will get there, but you have to be moving.
- 32:19 – 37:31
The Mindset Reframe That Emma Lives By
- EGEmma Grede
next time?" That's what you have to do for yourself. So know that that is inevitable. And you know, I've kind of trained myself around this rule of thirds that I have in my head, and that has really, really, really helped me to understand-
- MRMel Robbins
What is the rule of thirds?
- EGEmma Grede
So the rule of thirds is something that I remember hearing this when I was a bit younger, and it's like I almost live by it. So if you are doing something difficult, if you're chasing a dream, if you are on the road to whatever it is, you are going to be happy about a third of the time, and the other third of the time, you are gonna be like, "Ah, you know, life is kind of all right," and the final third of the time, you're gonna feel terrible now.
- MRMel Robbins
It sounds like a marriage.
- EGEmma Grede
You're gonna... (laughs) Basically.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
It can be applied to marriage, too. But you know, the point is that we shouldn't feel good all the time.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- EGEmma Grede
Right? It's just part of how we're conditioned right now to imagine that, like, life is this, like, you know, Instagram reel of wonderfulness, and that ain't the truth. So if you can learn to accept, do you know what? On those really bad days when you feel really crappy, you're like, "That's okay. In fact, I'm exactly where I need to be because I'm gonna have those days, and I'm gonna have some of the middling days, and then I'm gonna have these great days." And so if you go offtrack, that's all right 'cause you have to know that you can come back. And when you're on fire, you also better be real humble 'cause you're gonna know that those stinky times are coming, too. So it's a really lovely way to keep yourself in balance, and I think about it probably daily. A third and a third and a third.
- MRMel Robbins
The rule of thirds, I love it. Now I'm gonna think about it daily, and I know that the person that is listening is gonna think about it daily and share that rule of third with the people that they care about because it is true that when you're going through the crappy part, you think this is gonna be that way forever.
- EGEmma Grede
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And yeah, we all hear, "Oh, it's temporary. Ah." But I love a rule.
- EGEmma Grede
Yeah, I love a rule.
- MRMel Robbins
I love-
- EGEmma Grede
I love a rule.
- MRMel Robbins
... a rule.
- EGEmma Grede
I love a rule.
- MRMel Robbins
And so I love being able to say to myself, "Even though it's been a crappy decade-"
- EGEmma Grede
Oh-
- MRMel Robbins
"... this is just a third of a third. Uh, like, it's- it's just one third of what I'm gonna experience."
- EGEmma Grede
And Mel, I love that you say a decade because people tend to overestimate what they can do in a year and underestimate what can actually happen in a decade. I have been in America for eight years this July 4th, and I'm a different Emma, right? Like, that eight years didn't just happen in eight years. It happened the 30 years (laughs) before-
- MRMel Robbins
Right, right.
- EGEmma Grede
... the 40 years almost before, right? So we have to think about, like, what it actually takes, and time, and I feel like as a young person, you can be in such a rush.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- EGEmma Grede
It's like, don't be in a rush. Life is long. Life happens in chapters. And so as a young person, all you need to say to yourself is, "I am willing to work, and I'm willing to accept the direction of travel, and it will be going forward some of the time, and it will be standing on a spot some of the time, and it will be going backwards some of the other time, and all of it is fine."
- MRMel Robbins
Could you speak to the pressure that people feel-
- EGEmma Grede
(laughs) I've got one.
- MRMel Robbins
... when they're young to just jam it all in? Like, one of the things that I see from especially people in their 20s and early-
- EGEmma Grede
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
... 30s, is that, "I gotta do it all. I gotta travel. I gotta do this. I gotta find the person. I gotta figure out my dream career. I gotta..."
- 37:31 – 42:01
How to Stay Motivated When Your Job Isn’t Your Dream
- MRMel Robbins
Well, what's interesting is I'm sitting here looking at you and you're 42 and I'm thinking, "God, at 42, I was $800,000 in debt, I had liens on the house."
- EGEmma Grede
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
"My husband's restaurant business was going over, I was unemployed, three kids under 10, about to loo-" Like, that's when my life fell apart.
- EGEmma Grede
And look at you now.
- MRMel Robbins
No shit.
- EGEmma Grede
(sighs)
- MRMel Robbins
So it took...
- EGEmma Grede
Takes some time.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah, tak- takes some time. And one of the other things I want to point out, though, is you're 42, and when you drop out of college, that's 25 years ago. And I want to remind you as you're listening and watching that you also said in the very beginning, "I've only really enjoyed what I'm doing for the last five years."
- EGEmma Grede
Facts.
- MRMel Robbins
And it's really important because we don't talk about it enough, that it isn't going to be fun.
- EGEmma Grede
Mm-mm.
- MRMel Robbins
It isn't going to be a party the whole time. You are not gonna feel like you are pursuing your passion as you are on the journey and figuring it out. And one of the things that also is interesting about your career though, is it took you 10 years between that moment where you dropped out and you're hustling and you're trying to find anybody that will let you just be somewhat near fashion.
- EGEmma Grede
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
For free.
- EGEmma Grede
For free.
- MRMel Robbins
Doing anything so you can be close to the thing that you want. Would you speak to that moment where you feel like, "Oh my God, like, I've been at this for a while and I'm just not getting traction, and the job that I have is paying the bills-"
- EGEmma Grede
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
"... grateful to be able to pay my bills. Like, I'm not gonna, like, diss the job that's paying the bills, but it's not aligned with where I thought I would be." How do you stay motivated? How do you keep the dream alive when the first things that you're doing don't really feel like they're going anywhere?
- EGEmma Grede
Yeah. And let's be honest, we all have those times. I had a lot of jobs like that. I really, really did. And what I've always tried to do is find, and maybe make up a little bit in my head, but I've tried to find the glimmers, right? Like, "Where is something in here-"
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- EGEmma Grede
"... useful?" So you're working, you know, uh, like an office job or some kind of clerical role. You are learning to be organized. You are learning what it takes to be the back-office support. You are looking at everything that's happening around you. And let me tell you now, and I know this for sure, the fact that I have done all the bad jobs, the fact that I have been there, is what makes me a great leader. Because today, not only can I appreciate every single person around me, I've done those jobs. I know not just what it takes, but I know how it feels. And my staff know that I know how it feels. And there is a different appreciation level for somebody who comes into leadership having done all of the things.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- EGEmma Grede
And so not only do I look for those glimmers and tell somebody that, "You know, this job that you're doing that feels pretty mundane isn't, because there is value in all work," you just have to find that and you take small pieces. And I think about my experience now as, it's a collective of all the things that I've learned. I learned customer service when I was making the sandwiches. And when I was delivering the papers, I learned the power of the mornings. And when I worked in the closet at the fashion company, I learned how to do a really (laughs) horrible job with a smile on my face, just put it on. And it's like all of those little pieces will take you somewhere, and you have to keep in your head and tell yourself, "Life is long."
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- EGEmma Grede
"And whatever I'm doing, it all adds up to something."
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- EGEmma Grede
You know, just like all your relationship experiences. And it can feel hard when you're in them, but you can look back and say, "There was a reason that thing happened."
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- EGEmma Grede
But you've got to understand, hindsight isn't just a fine thing. It's the thing. It's what makes us who we are eventually. So you've just got to keep that in the front of your mind, that-
- 42:01 – 49:05
Nobody Is Better Than You — And You’re Not Better Than Anyone Else
- MRMel Robbins
What gave you the confidence to stay when you would get into a room where you're like, "I'm not sure I belong here," or, "I'm not sure this is gonna work"?
- EGEmma Grede
The way I was raised was really interesting, because confidence has never really been my problem. I was raised by, you know, my wonderful mum, and she taught me, you know, she was like, "Emma, you're not better than anybody else, but nor is anyone better than you."
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- EGEmma Grede
And that stayed with me. And so when I walk into a room now, then, even though with my terrible education (laughs) , leaving school before I should, even though I'm highly dyslexic, I know my gifts, I know my strengths. And I know that whatever it is that any of us has to bring is valuable.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- EGEmma Grede
There is value in all of us. And so again, you have to really, like, anchor into that piece of you. Like you have to. You have to believe that you have something special, unique. And even if it's not special and unique, it's what you have to bring, so make the most of it.... figure it out, right?
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs) Figure it out.
- EGEmma Grede
Figure it out. Package it up and go in with some confidence that at least there's just not another you. Right? There's not another you in that room, so whatever you are bringing into that space is something that's not there, because there isn't another you. And you have to think deeply and carefully about what those things are and what you add to an organization. And I've done all of that. But in the beginning, you've just gotta believe that you have something unique to bring.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, you also touched on this earlier about excellence and how when you operate with a level of excellence-
- EGEmma Grede
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... even if it's managing the energy at the crappy job you can't stand, people are drawn to it.
- EGEmma Grede
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
Drawn to it.
- EGEmma Grede
They really are.
- MRMel Robbins
Do you have any advice for how you can get yourself into a room? You know what I mean? Like, there's a lot of-
- EGEmma Grede
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... people that are aspiring to launch a business, or raise some money, or, uh, just put their art out there, or be noticed, or get the interview. Is there something, some move that you can make, or some way that you have found, or maybe an example of somebody that got your attention about how you get into a room? 'Cause you were literally like, "I just wanna be adjacent to whatever, whatever, whatever."
- EGEmma Grede
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
"I'm gonna knock on that door. I'm n-" And...
- EGEmma Grede
Yeah. I mean, the first thing, Mel, is you gotta get out of your own head 'cause I speak to a lot of people like, "I've been trying this thing and I've been, like, thinking about this for a long time."
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
It's like, "What did you do?" Like, what did you do? Did you call the store? You wanted to sell your thing in the store. Do you call them or are you just hoping for somebody to notice you? Did you... Like, you wanna be an artist? Like, are you making art? Are you putting your work out there? Again, like, nobody is, like, looking for you. No one. So you, again, have to take responsibility and start. Like, get out of the starting blocks and go and do something. And again, it comes down to this idea of fearing what is on the other side. Fear of rejection, fear of being told no, fear that it won't work. So you gotta get past that point and know that that's all there and that may well happen, but that's okay too. And I honestly think that the big, uh, the, the big block that people have is getting started-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
... feeling so vulnerable that they can't even start. You can't write a business plan and then file that business plan and then go, "I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna start this business 'cause I've got a plan." It's like, what's in the plan? You've gotta go. You've gotta get the thing made. You have to write the email. You have to ask the question. And you cannot network your way into starting. That doesn't work. People right now always say to me, "You know, I wish I was invited to this networking event." It's like, that's not the thing. A network is a tool, a way of getting things done. The things that make the difference between starting and not starting is never really what you think. It's never the people that you think.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
When I look at my business and my life and think, "Who are the people that have made the biggest differences?" I go back. It's like, I didn't know anyone that was gonna give me money to start a business. I went to my clients, to people that I worked with, and explained like, "I am going to start this thing and I'm gonna need some capital to do it." When I needed advice and a mentor, I didn't know anyone who, like, had a business in East London. Like, not a legit or legal one anyway, you know?
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
It's like, "Okay, guys. Like, we, that's not the type of business advice I need." So again, I went to clients, and at the end of pitching the marketing campaign I was there, I would just ask a couple of questions. Like, you gotta take your chance. Shoot your shot. Don't walk around looking for a mentor. Walk around asking questions. That's what you have to do. And you have to realize that your network will never be what you think it is. It will be the factory, the vendors, your bank, uh, relationship, your lawyer. Like, that is your network. So work with whatever you've got. Stop looking at what you don't have and look at what you do have and make that the network. But you have to start. You've gotta start somewhere.
- MRMel Robbins
You know, I keep thinking about the fact that it is so easy to talk, it's so easy to make a plan, it's so easy to, you know, network with people.
- EGEmma Grede
Mm-hmm.
- 49:05 – 59:45
The Origin Story of Good American
- EGEmma Grede
is around you.
- MRMel Robbins
What was the first thing that you started?
- EGEmma Grede
So, the first thing to say is I always had a job. From 12, I've had a job. I delivered the papers, I did the babysitting, it's like, I worked in the deli, I worked in a million different clothes shops. It's like, I've been working forever and ever and ever. And so, it's like, I drop out of college, um, and I landed in this strange year of just work placements.
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- EGEmma Grede
So, I just went from place to place to place, essentially figuring out what I didn't want to do. But getting closer to the idea of, like, "What is the fashion business? How does it work?" I landed in a fashion show production company. Sounds glamorous, absolutely was not. You're building the catwalk shows. So you know, a designer has this, like, grand idea of what it is that they want to do and you have to build it. The show goes up, but you spend three months planning it. The show goes up and down in 10 minutes. You don't see it 'cause you're backstage. Everybody goes off to a party that you're not invited to and then (laughs) you have to de-rig and pack the thing down. That was my life for five years. But in that, I met everybody. I understood what the business of fashion was, why we were putting on the shows, and I knew everybody. And so, I essentially took the, what I had created there, which was just my reputation-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
... as being someone who understood fashion and loved fashion, and I started doing deals for fashion designers with brands. So, everybody had this grand idea of what show they wanted to put on, but no budget because they weren't really making sales. And so, I would do brand partnerships between designers and brands. And I created an agency eventually, after like, you know, one deal here, one deal there, a little commission there, a little commission there. Um, I became like the girl that did this in London. And I started an agency when I was 24. That agency I was in for 10 years. I grew it. I had an office in London, an office in New York, an office in LA. Closed the office in LA. Grew, grew, grew. And I essentially built this agency group that started acquiring rights, licensing rights and brand rights. We did product placement in movies, we put celebrities into campaigns.
- MRMel Robbins
So, so if I don't understand what that means-
- EGEmma Grede
Yes. (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... what- (laughs) what does that mean that you do brand things?
- EGEmma Grede
So, so we... So, my agency was an entertainment marketing agency.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- EGEmma Grede
So, we represented a brand's interests in the world of entertainment. So, my client could be, let's call it Mercedes-Benz.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- EGEmma Grede
And Mercedes-Benz wanna put that car into a movie. Or they would like to have-
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, got it.
- EGEmma Grede
... Claudia Schiffer in their campaign.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- EGEmma Grede
Or they would like to do a partnership with a fashion designer and have the interiors of the car looking all gorgeous. I was the girl representing the brands making those-
- MRMel Robbins
Got it.
- EGEmma Grede
... marketing deals happen.
- MRMel Robbins
I wanna make sure that as you're listening or watching right now, you actually got a couple really key takeaways and pieces of advice that are buried in the story so far.
- EGEmma Grede
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
So, you have this vision, you know what you want to do, you wanna be in fashion. And so you do everything you can to get yourself in as close a proximity as you can to the thing that you're interested in. So, you're volunteering first. You ultimately end up with this crappy job.
- EGEmma Grede
Crappy job.
- MRMel Robbins
Crappy job. But you are in the industry.
- EGEmma Grede
I'm in the mix.
- MRMel Robbins
You're in the mix. So, number one, I don't care if you don't know what you wanna do, get a damn job. And you said for an entire year, you did everything you could in these jobs you didn't like-
- EGEmma Grede
For free.
- MRMel Robbins
For free.
- 59:45 – 1:04:02
Inside the Billion Dollar Pitch That Changed Everything
- EGEmma Grede
- MRMel Robbins
I wanna go back to this meeting and the idea.
- EGEmma Grede
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
So the idea was to... How did you frame the idea eight years ago? 'Cause it, it was absolutely a trailblazer.
- EGEmma Grede
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
So you've got this white space idea that is... This is not like... Everybody's got that uncle who's like, "I thought of Uber."
- EGEmma Grede
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
You're like, "Uh-huh. Okay."
- EGEmma Grede
"Yep, yeah, okay."
- MRMel Robbins
"Uh-huh, sure, yep."
- EGEmma Grede
"Did you do it?" (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
But no, you, you, you had been building toward this moment-
- EGEmma Grede
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... for well over a decade. And so you not only had an idea, you had obsessed around the industry. You knew that you were gonna do this. Didn't matter if Kris Jenner and Khloe or anybody said yes 'cause you were gonna do this.
- EGEmma Grede
Oh, I was gonna do it.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, hell yes, you were. And so tell me though, what was the pitch? And pull up a chair and put us in the meeting in terms of how that meeting went.
- EGEmma Grede
So, you have to imagine that for the 10 years previously, I had been in practice.
- NANarrator
Mm.
Mm.
- EGEmma Grede
I- I'd pitched the world's biggest CMOs, I'd put the biggest celebrities, uh, in the world, in the biggest campaigns in the world. I had been on set with the most famous men and women on the planet. And I had won awards in my agency, I was a trailblazer in that business of celebrity, fashion, entertainment. My agency was the best agency doing what it did. And so, in a way, Mel, when I got into that meeting, I thought I had a gift in my hand, and I was ready-
- NANarrator
Oh.
- EGEmma Grede
... and willing to share my gift. Because I knew I had an idea that was golden. And I really approached that meeting saying, "Hey, I have this golden, brilliant thing that I have researched and I understand," and I'd gone out and made, you know, I had a pair of jeans, "And this is going to be the next big thing in fashion." And so my mindset was that, "This is done. I am launching this thing. It comes out in October. Where do we go from here?" And I think that there was something so special in that moment because everybody could see it.
- NANarrator
Hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
Everybody understood. The reason I was able to attract the right investors and the right partners and the right retailers is because the idea and the execution and what led up to it was so incredibly special. I had done my homework, I knew the difference between me and everybody else. I had obsessed the price point, I could tell you the price of every single pair of jeans that sat on the Nordstrom denim floor, and I could tell you what the content of those jeans were, and I could tell you how my jeans were made differently and why, when a woman put them on, she felt a certain way in them, because I was obsessed. Obsessed beyond anything that would be reasonable. Because in my head, I had to succeed at something that was mine. Because when you spend your life as a consultant making everybody else look good and being the person behind the scenes and not taking credit for it-
- NANarrator
Hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
... there's only so much of that-
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
... that an ego like mine can take, quite honestly.
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
I was like, "Wow, look at that campaign! That's their idea again, you know, that I came up with." And so for me, I was ready to take credit and to do something that meant something to a group of women that I admired-
- 1:04:02 – 1:12:04
What Nobody Tells You About Overnight Success
- EGEmma Grede
- NANarrator
So, what happened next?
- EGEmma Grede
Oh, it was a disaster, Mel. (laughs)
- NANarrator
What? Oh, my God!
- EGEmma Grede
(laughs)
- NANarrator
You know, it never feels like you think it's going to feel-
- EGEmma Grede
No.
- NANarrator
... to get everything you've ever wanted.
- EGEmma Grede
No, it was a disaster.
- NANarrator
That's what they don't tell you.
- EGEmma Grede
That's what they don't tell you, yeah. And it really ... When I say it was a disaster, the per- ... You know, I will ... If you go back to launch day, it was amazing actually, because, you know, you've got your Shopify site-
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
... I was in ... You know, my husband had an office in LA. At that time I was, like, just sitting at a conference table with the two people that I'd hired around that conference ta- room table. And so we had the Shopify screen up, and you can see, like, the customers are starting to come in, and people are starting to purchase, and everyone was like, "Emma, you're a genius. You're gonna, like, have amazing sales today."
- NANarrator
Yep.
- EGEmma Grede
This is like nine o'clock. And I'm like, "I'm so clever."
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
And then 10 o'clock rolls round and they're like, "Well, you know, you're out of, uh, all the size whatevers, this through this." And I'm like, "That's okay. You know, we'll replenish." And this wonderful woman, I will never forget, she still works with me to this day, Melissa Anderson. She says, "You do know that we're off-calendar?" And I thought, "Why is this woman talking about calendar?"
- NANarrator
What does off-calendar mean?
- EGEmma Grede
Well, that's the problem, Mel. 'Cause you're not in fashion, so you wouldn't know what off-calendar means. But I was in fashion, and I still didn't know what off-calendar meant.
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
And if I'd have known, I wouldn't have had the problems that I had. So, my naivety kind of hit me right there, 'cause she was like, "You don't have more inventory. If you sell through what is here today, it's going to take months to get back into stock, and we are not holding any fabric and we don't have the vendors lined up." Because in my head, there is no way that you would sell through that much inventory. It was a brand new brand. It was a brand new idea. You know, even retailers, when we pitched it to them, didn't fully understand the concept-
- NANarrator
Yeah.
- EGEmma Grede
... of carrying all of those sizes. So long story short, I remember everybody, by about 11 o'clock they stopped celebrating me, and by 12 it was like, "Maybe you're not fit to be (laughs) the CEO of this company." And I thought, "Maybe I'm not," for about 30 seconds, and I was like, "Everybody needs to calm down." And at that point, it was like a lesson in customer service, because I had started to disappoint people. 'Cause people were coming on the website and they couldn't get their size, they couldn't get what they wanted. And so, I started calling people. And at that point, of course it's all email, there were no phone numbers, so I was like, "What is your phone number? Hi, Sally (laughs) from Michigan. I'm so sorry, I can get you a pair of jeans in about 13 weeks." And I just went and I went and I went, and I emailed and I phoned and I called. And that's when I started to really fundamentally understand the business that I was in, because I had to go backwards before I could go forwards. I had to figure out, how is this juggernaut going to actually work and function because I don't understand it?
- MRMel Robbins
What's so interesting about that story is you would think that selling out of your entire inventory on day one would be a great problem.
- EGEmma Grede
It would be a great problem if you could get some more inventory in the next couple of weeks. But if you're out of, you know... Again, attention span is very, very short. And I knew that, two great things. Number one, the majority of my customers couldn't just go elsewhere, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- EGEmma Grede
There was a, there was a limit. But at the end of the day, there were a lot of women buying Good American that could go to any brand. And if you want something, you're gonna go elsewhere.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- EGEmma Grede
And so I had to figure out a way of creating community around what we was doing-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- 1:12:04 – 1:15:50
How to Craft a Business Pitch That Actually Works
- MRMel Robbins
What advice do you have for somebody who can get into the room or happens to be introduced to somebody and you want to take your shot and make your pitch? How do you do it without being overbearing or inappropriate or... You know what I'm saying?
- EGEmma Grede
Yeah, totally. So, let's just talk about this for a second in terms of what is most important for a pitch? Right? Because that's the first thing that people get wrong. A lot of fantastic, brilliant, successful entrepreneurs are excellent storytellers. So they're not coming into going like, "Hi, I've got this thing and it's 5.99 and it does duh, duh, duh, duh."They're telling you a story.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
They are weaving a narrative in your mind for what this thing does, for the solution, the how it came to be, and they're going all around that. But they are taking you on a journey and you're like, you're in, you're in like you're being read Goldilocks, right? It's like, "Ta-ta-ta-ta-ta," and you're eating it up. And that is the starting point. Because to be an incredible entrepreneur, you've got to be able to sell and you've got to be able to storytell, and those two things are the things that I think people don't think about enough. When you can craft a story and a narrative that is compelling to your customers, you got them, you got them hooked. That is your sales pitch. So really figuring that out and practicing it. I can't tell you how many times I sat down in a mirror and spoke about Good American before I met Pete Nordstrom. Like, maybe 50 times. I did that pitch over and over and over and over again. Remember, Mel, I knew nothing about contruc- construction of denim. I was a marketing kid who went into product. So I had to, like, really finesse it and I had to, again, you know, I'm not a plus-sized woman, but I had to embody my customer and embody who I was solving for. So the first thing is, like, get your storytelling down and make sure you're not just flogging a product. You are telling an interesting, compelling narrative. And then you've got to work out your timing 'cause if you're in a party, if you are at a social event, if you're on a quick ride, like, that's not the time, that's not it. And you would be better saying, "I've got something that would be really interesting to you and I wonder if you've got a good five minutes to do it." Because if you get that timing off-
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- EGEmma Grede
... the person is not there to receive your thing. My next thing is about your attitude. You can be excited, you can be exuberant. You can actually even be a little bit arrogant, right? That, that is fine, so long as you know your shit. And you really need to know it. You really need to know. And when I say you need to know it, you need to know your competition, you need to know what you're up against. You need to have figured all of those things out because when you have your chance, you have to be ready.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
There is no practice. There is no... it's like, that's your moment. So you've got to figure those things out way ahead of time. That's how you do a really great and really compelling pitch.
- MRMel Robbins
Excellence, again.
- EGEmma Grede
We're back to it.
- MRMel Robbins
We're back to it.
- EGEmma Grede
We're back to it.
- MRMel Robbins
We're back to excellence.
- EGEmma Grede
And excellence can be practiced, right? Like if you-
- MRMel Robbins
Well, it needs to be.
- EGEmma Grede
Like-
- MRMel Robbins
It actually needs... Excellence-
- EGEmma Grede
And it re-
- MRMel Robbins
... does not show up.
- EGEmma Grede
No. You've got to, you've got to try and you've got to sit in front of someone a- and, and fake pitch it. You know? You've got to do that. You've got... And you've got to be willing to take the feedback. You know, everyone used to say to me, "Emma, y- you're fantastic. You just speak really fast." And I'd be like, "I do? Really?"
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
"What do you mean I speak too fast?" You know? And so-
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- EGEmma Grede
... I had to learn to slow it down a little bit. But you have to be willing to take that feedback.
- MRMel Robbins
So for someone who wants to start a business-
- 1:15:50 – 1:21:30
Brutally Honest Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs
- MRMel Robbins
- EGEmma Grede
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... what's the best piece of advice to give them?
- EGEmma Grede
I think my best advice is that, and this is, uh, this is where I want to be really honest, Mel, not everybody should start a business, right? And so I think that you have to really think about what you're optimizing for. What are you trying to do here? We are in America. America is an incredible place to be successful. And that isn't always about starting a business.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
We've romanticized this idea of what it means to be a founder. It might be that you are the type of person that thrives on comfort, and you need to know what's happening next month and the month after. That's not a founder, that's not an entrepreneur, and you would be better working for one of the great companies that we have in this country. You can have a fantastic, beautiful, ambitious, entrepreneurial corporate career in this country. And so you really need to be honest with yourself about who are you and what are you trying to optimize for? Do you want to be that... Are you somebody that is risk averse? Are you somebody that's willing to put it all on the line? Are you at the stage in your life where that's even an option for you? Or do you have kids and a mortgage and parents-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
... that you're looking after? So the first thing is, let's just be honest and not go around telling everyone that everyone should start a business and everyone's an entrepreneur, because they're just not. That might not be what people want to hear, but that is the truth.
- MRMel Robbins
That's what they need to hear. That's what they need to hear. That is fantastic, honest advice. What's the worst thing that somebody could do if they know, "Okay, I can handle the uncertainty. I cannot let this thing go. I am going to do this thing." What's the worst thing that they could do?
- EGEmma Grede
Be short-sighted. You have to be long-term.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- EGEmma Grede
I don't know any business that does what it does in the movies. It takes time. It takes so much time. And for you to get in your stride and be good at something and start hiring people, and those people to work out, and your thing to start tracking, and the retailers to take notice, and then the press to set up, that takes time. So you have to know that nothing happens overnight and are you willing to commit yourself to this thing for the next few years?
- MRMel Robbins
10 years.
- EGEmma Grede
Like, that's-
- MRMel Robbins
Honestly, that's what it takes.
- EGEmma Grede
... that's what it takes.
Episode duration: 1:26:23
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