The Mel Robbins PodcastMindset Flip: Getting Real About Your Relationship With Alcohol | The Mel Robbins Podcast
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150 min read · 30,102 words- 0:00 – 2:24
Intro
- MRMel Robbins
We're just gonna jump in with a confessional. Is that okay? I have been thinking a lot about my relationship, and it sounds weird to even say my relationship with alcohol. I've been thinking a lot about drinking. Should I drink? Should I not drink? Is it bad if I'm drinking? And I feel like I have a split personality because I'm, I'm, I literally argue for it and against it every single time I use it. I don't know why I'm so conflicted about it. Help me. Help all of us. (upbeat music) Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Okay, I'm so glad you're here today because today is one of those conversations where I need you to put your arm around me. You know how I always say that the Mel Robbins Podcast is like you and I going on a walk together and sorting out life and all kinds of topics together? Well, today, I wanna talk about something that's been on my mind for a long time, and that is my relationship with alcohol, and if I'm being honest, I've resisted having this conversation on the podcast because I'm not ready to remove alcohol from my life entirely, but I am so conflicted about drinking. I know it's bad for my health. I have so many other healthy habits, and yet I still love to have a cocktail. I still love to have a glass of wine, and maybe it's because Chris doesn't really drink that much, and so I often am confronted with, "Do I have a glass of wine alone? Do I not?" And this isn't just a conversation about alcohol. You may not have any issue with alcohol. You may be sober. You may not really drink at all. You may be able to have one beer or one glass of wine and never think about it, but you probably have something else in your life that you're conflicted about. Maybe it's how much money you spend. Maybe it's an addiction to sugar. Maybe you play way too many video games, or you spend too much time scrolling on social media. You know it's a problem, or maybe you wonder if it's a problem, and you keep going back and forth. "I should stop, but I don't stop. Should I stop? I don't know. What should I do?" Well, a friend of mine told me about this incredible woman named Rachel Hart. Rachel is a podcaster, and she is an expert at helping people understand their urges and create healthier and normal relationships with the things in life that you crave. Her work focuses on creating, quote, "a normal relationship with alcohol,"
- 2:24 – 9:12
Why is your relationship with alcohol so confusing?
- MRMel Robbins
whatever that might mean for you, but everything that we're gonna talk about today is gonna help you take control of any area of your life where you feel this conflict, or you feel out of control, or you wonder if you have a problem, and you just can't seem to get to the bottom of it. Here we go. Put your arm around me 'cause this is gonna be one of those (laughs) episodes where I'm processing my feelings in real time live in our conversation as you and I are walking and talking. So, let's do this. Rachel, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
- RHRachel Hart
Thank you.
- MRMel Robbins
I'm really excited to talk to you because I have been thinking a lot about my relationship, and it sounds weird to even say my relationship with alcohol. I've been thinking a lot about, um, drinking, and I have this very conflicted relationship with drinking. My husband doesn't really drink, and so that means that I, you know, have a partner that, that is never pouring himself a drink at the end of the day, and that has made me think a lot more about, "Why am I drinking?" And I've noticed that I... We're just gonna jump in with a confessional. Is that okay? I mean, is this the way that we should start this thing?
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs) By all means.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, great. Um, I've just noticed that I have a lot of agita about it. "Should I drink? Should I not drink? Is it bad if I'm drinking?" And I wanted to talk to you because I love your website, and I love your approach to having people, as you say, have a, quote, "normal relationship" with alcohol and with their urges, and I don't even know where to begin. I just am really excited to talk to you about this because I don't even know... I don't, I don't know why I'm so conflicted about it. I don't... I wish I weren't, and I guess the other thing that's been happening for me is that the more that I learn about neuroscience and the body and the fact that alcohol is poison, the more I'm thinking to myself, "Why the fuck am I drinking-"
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
"... if it's this bad for me?" Oh, yeah. I know, because I like the taste of it, and every once in a while, it's fun to celebrate with friends. So, that's me. That's me, the hot mess, Mel Robbins-
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... with alcohol.
- RHRachel Hart
Or maybe not a hot mess.
- MRMel Robbins
A little bit.
- RHRachel Hart
Like, maybe normal-
- MRMel Robbins
I don't know.
- RHRachel Hart
... to be conflicted.
- MRMel Robbins
Is it normal to be conflicted about alcohol?
- RHRachel Hart
Yes. Yes, of course, it is. Of cour- well, because think about it. On the one hand, you're like, "Okay, I'm, like, learning about this, and it's a poison, and it's bad for my body," and on the other hand, it's, like, a billion-dollar industry, and we're exposed to so many messages about alcohol. And I, I just think we, we're getting all these conflicted messages all the time, that it's the thing, you know, that makes things fun and fancy and adult and, you know, how you do something special. And then at the same time, it's like, "Oh, by the way, you're poisoning yourself." So, I, I, I think that that's very normal, and I just want to tell you that I think the vast majority of people that I work with start out in this place of, "I'm not really sure what I wanna do. I'm not really sure, you know, uh, what is right. I just know that I have this kind of... I don't know if it's an intuition or this little kind of quiet whisper that, like, I don't know, something doesn't feel right, or something about my relationship feels a little off, and maybe I wanna do something about it." It's just that this is also such a highly charged issue, right? And so-I think a lot of times people have that intuition, they have that kind of inner knowing of like, "I don't know, maybe I wanna look more closely at this." But then like, "Oh God, what does that mean? Do I have to stop drinking for the rest of my life? Uh, do I have to put a label on?" So, what you are experiencing, I just wanna say, is very normal. (laughs) The conflict that you have, uh, you know, for a long time I was like, (laughs) "Do I have a split personality? What is going on?" Because part of me had so much desire and love to drink, and part of me was also like, "I don't know that this is creating the best outcomes for you." And I didn't... I thought that that conflict was a sign that something was wrong with me, rather than, yeah, no, you've got two different parts of your brain (laughs) that care about different things. And so yeah, you're gonna be conflicted sometimes about your desires. That's normal.
- MRMel Robbins
Is it appropriate for me to tell you this soon in our relationship that I love you?
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs) Well, 'cause I'm starting to think about how you're right. I've, I've, I've started to do... I've started to think about this like there's something wrong with me and I have a problem.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And when I look at everybody's relationship with alcohol, it is kinda fucked up because we have all of this messaging at us. We... Most of us have had periods of our lives where we drank. And I even look at our 20-somethings-
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... who are just through the college year- or just got out of college, and their relationship with alcohol is crazy. You know, like, they just go on these benders. And then it's like, "Oh, I'm not gonna drink all week. I gotta get back healthy again." And that's what I used to be like. And I think about how much effort goes into the, "Am I gonna have a gin and tonic tonight? Or am I not gonna have anything at all? And then if I do have a drink, I should probably take some Advil before I go to bed." And the whole cycle that happens in the morning when you feel kinda hungover and I wake up and I'm like, "Why did I do that? Now I'm not as clear, and I don't feel like exercising. And I probably shouldn't have had that wine, and it tasted like shit anyway, and it was a lot of sugar." And so, I realized (laughs) that there's a lot of active energy that I have around alcohol. And I wanted to talk to you because I'm like, "I'm pretty sure I don't have a problem, but what I do have a problem with is the amount of conflict that I feel, like I'm doing something wrong."
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And I feel like I have a split personality because I'm, I'm, I literally argue for it and against it every single time I use it, where I'm like, "Well, it's just a gin and tonic for God's sakes. I mean, it's just, like, who cares?" And then I'm like, "Well, you know, the poison, and you know, you said you weren't gonna drink tonight, so you're a liar, and that means you have a problem." And then I'm like, "Well no, I don't, because I'm s- I'm just having a gin and tonic for God's sakes, and then I fill it up with Topo Chico after that. Not the alcoholic Topo Chico, but just the regular one. So, what's wrong with that?" "Well, you know, you said you weren't gonna drink, and then that's a this, and then you're gonna sleep like shit 'cause you're in menopause." And like, it's like this beat down, so-
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- 9:12 – 14:56
The shame cycle I go through every time I drink
- MRMel Robbins
... help me. Help me.
- RHRachel Hart
Well, I w-
- MRMel Robbins
Help all of us.
- RHRachel Hart
We... (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
How did you start doing this? Like what, what... Do, do you drink? I have so many questions.
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah, okay. Well, so I mean, I will say that I started drinking in college. I was 17, and I very-
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, that's late. I'm a way better drinker than you are.
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
I started at 14, man. (laughs)
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs) I was very quickly like, "Oh, this is the solution to all my problems."
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- RHRachel Hart
Like, "We don't have to feel awkward. We don't have to feel anxious. I don't have to listen to any of my internal critic or any of my, you know, hangups. This is amazing. Where has this been?" Right? And so that, I mean, I think that was my experience, what you're describing, the kind of 20-something that I like would work very hard during the week. Um, by the way, also during the week, a constant kind of, "PS, don't ever make any mistakes."
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
"Don't do anything wrong. You must do everything perfectly." And then the weekend for me was my outlet to be like, "Okay, like finally, not only do I get to stop feeling anxious and awkward and have these hangups, but also I can like be a little wild and mess up, and this is a way to feel sexy and confident and have fun." And so, you know, that was something that my brain was learning. And again, I just, I think it's really important to, to reiterate that we are learning something when we drink. The brain is always learning, so it, we're not just learning to acquire the taste. We're learning about, hey, you know, this is what we do at sporting... you know, when we watch the game or-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
... at sporting events, or at celebrations, or on vacation. So we're, we're learning both when we do it and we're also learning, this is how I relax, right? This is how I connect. This is how I open up. And so all of that is unconsciously h- happening below the surface, and I think we get to this point where we start to wanna examine our drinking, and maybe I wanna drink less, or maybe I'm unsure about this. And we are trying to do it from this place of, "Okay, well I know it's not good for me," right? "I know I shouldn't do this," or, "I should be more responsible," as opposed to, "Hey, well you know, what has my brain learned," right? "Can I start to understand that? Can I start to teach my brain something different-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
... about what alcohol is a symbol for?" I mean, it's, it becomes a symbol for so many things, and I think we just look at it from the superficial of like, "Oh, I just like the taste," right? Or like, I was like, "I'm just into craft cocktails. That's just my thing." (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
I like the ceremony and the smoke and the sprig of rosemary-
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... that comes out of that thimble that they serve it in for $20, right? (laughs)
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs) Well, the... but, right? Th- there is so much. I mean, when you think about it, you know, you go to a fancy restaurant and you're getting the wine pairing and the sommelier is coming over, and it's, you're getting all this information about, you know, where it was grown and the type of grape, and yeah. I mean, we are like building up all......level of this kind of excitement and drama around it. And by the way, I'm not saying any of that is bad, but I think we just have to understand (laughs) that, like, there's a reason that we attach all this kind of symbolism and desire and, and what it starts to represent. So, that's all going on (laughs) , you know, and then we have the other side of, okay, well, if I had too much to drink I was obviously stupid, um, and I should know better, and why am I still making these same mistakes? I should have grown out of this by now. So there's this idea that it, that all of our desire and urges should just be conquered by our intellect, and-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
...that doesn't make any sense.
- MRMel Robbins
I just love everything that you're saying, because I'm starting to realize that one of the reasons why I've never been drawn toward just being a person that doesn't have alcohol in their life, period, is that it also felt, for me at least, I know for some people it's incredibly important and empowering, and it is the choice that is the right choice and the choice you need to make, but for me there was something about it that felt like a part of the thing I'm already doing, which is making myself wrong-
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
...about the urges. And I have always said to myself that I just wish I could be the kind of person that had no drama around it, that if I wanted a glass of wine, I had a glass of wine in the moment, and if I didn't feel the need to finish the whole bottle of wine, I, f- i- that I wouldn't have this whole shame cycle and conflict of whether or not I'm going to drink or not drink. And when you said the thing about how, like, it's part of how we watch sports, it made me realize there are so many stories that your brain has learned about when and where and why you drink alcohol, and I think the single two biggest stories for me are, number one, that alcohol, for me, is about belonging.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- 14:56 – 18:15
Has drinking become your way of belonging in a social setting?
- MRMel Robbins
in that if you were 18 you could buy alcohol in Michigan.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And so my boyfriend could buy alcohol, and, or no, his friends could buy alcohol 'cause he was 17, and we went out, we would go out to Lake Michigan, and I remember we were first dating, we pull into the state park, and there were all the seniors out there, and my boyfriend was a junior and I was a freshman, and I was so scared because I was the only freshman or sophomore that was out at that beach. The sun was setting. We get out of the car. He grabs my hand. We walk towards all his friends, and one of the gals turns to me and says, "Hey, Mel, would you like a rum and Coke?" And when she handed me that rum and Coke in a red Solo cup, I immediately exhaled and was like, "Okay. I'm part of the group."
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And so the trigger for me is any time the waiter comes around or I'm going over to a friend's house. This just happened last night. I was, I was not planning on having anything to drink last night, and then I went over to my friend's house. She had two glasses out and a bottle of Sancerre, and she poured two glasses and said, "Let's go walk around the garden." And I'm like, "Okay." You know? (laughs) "Okay, I'm gonna join in with you."
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
And it feels good to join in, and, and the Sancerre tasted great, and I had a glass of wine, and that was that. And then I came home, but of course as I'm driving home, Rachel, I'm like, "Why'd you do that?"
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah. Right, 'cause you're making it mean that you did something wrong-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- RHRachel Hart
...as opposed to, like, can we just love your brain for a second? That it's like-
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- RHRachel Hart
..."Hey, I wanna belong. How normal of me. How human of me that I wanna feel connected." Right? And at some point, you're 14, and the brain's like, "Oh, this is how we belong? Like, you have the red Solo cup, I have the red Solo cup. Look. Belonging." And so that's what I'm talking about when I'm saying, like, what was your brain learning?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- RHRachel Hart
Right? Now, you not, may not have made consciously that connection in that moment, but at some point, your brain did make that connection. It did make that association, and so then it's like, wait, if, if this is a symbol of belonging and I want to belong, 'cause who doesn't, then what's gonna happen all of a sudden? It's like, okay, so I go see my friend and she pours two drinks, and I'm like, "No, thank you?" Are we disconnected now? Do I not belong? So-
- MRMel Robbins
And I know intellectually, Rachel, that she wouldn't give a shit. She'd just take my glass-
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
...that she poured and pour it in hers and then give me a seltzer. Like, she, (laughs) like, she can roll with it. It's not that big of a deal.
- RHRachel Hart
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
But this goes deeper than what you know intellectually, and that's why I'm so excited to talk to you, because the other piece of this for me is something that I only have recently discovered, and that is that having lived with undiagnosed ADHD for 47 years of my life, and understanding now the role of dopamine and the fact that when you have undiagnosed and untreated ADHD, there is a huge deficiency-
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
...in it, and your ability, you know, to basically switch between neural networks, that you
- 18:15 – 22:02
You are creating boundaries that justify your cravings and urges.
- MRMel Robbins
unconsciously seek those dopamine dumps, one of them being-... the (sighs) of having that first sip, right?
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And so, I also see the correlation of the other moment that I really love to have a drink, which is after a really awesome, busy day at work, it's a celebration. And it is a lever, because I work so hard, that's like, "Oh, this is signaling to my brain that I can, I can literally turn off the working brain, and I can just shift down into, oh, it's time to relax and not think about work mode."
- RHRachel Hart
Well, it becomes a boundary, right? And so, I-
- MRMel Robbins
Oh.
- RHRachel Hart
... I talk about-
- MRMel Robbins
A boundary?
- RHRachel Hart
... a lot of pe-
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, whoa.
- RHRachel Hart
... about (laughs) -
- MRMel Robbins
Wait a minute. So, wait, wait. So, like, a drink becomes a boundary? That is genius.
- RHRachel Hart
I'm off the clock.
- MRMel Robbins
Did you make that up?
- RHRachel Hart
I'm off the clock, right? This is my boundary. I have poured the drink. (laughs) I am off the clock.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh my God, you're right.
- RHRachel Hart
And so then it's like, okay, so now I'm gonna try to say no. I didn't understand that it was a boundary, so now my brain's like, "Okay, w- so we're still on the clock?" And I-
- MRMel Robbins
(sighs)
- RHRachel Hart
... have to keep thinking, but I've been thinking all day long, and I don't wanna think about work anymore. This is my permission not to think.
- MRMel Robbins
I freaking love you.
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
I feel like you are literally showing me a whole new world, because I have made it so much about the alcohol that I'm, I'm conflicted on the surface, and what you're trying to get us to see is, hold on a sec, drop deeper into what the where and when means, and why you have the urge. Like, like, it's almost as if you're saying, "Let's just remove alcohol from the conversation-
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... for a minute, and let's talk about this urge that you have, and why there's such a conflict." Holy shit.
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah. I, and I'll just say, like, one of the thoughts for me for the longest time was just, "I deserve it." Right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- RHRachel Hart
"I deserve it, I deserve it, I deserve it."
- MRMel Robbins
I just said that last night.
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
Last night. I literally was just like, "I fucking work hard. I have no vices, other than swearing, and having-
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs)
- 22:02 – 29:35
What your urges and cravings are trying to communicate to you
- RHRachel Hart
kind of trying to tell me something useful. Maybe it's-"
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
"... trying to tell me something about a deeper desire. Maybe it's trying to communicate, hey, what do I actually need? Maybe I need a boundary."
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
"Maybe I need to give myself permission. Maybe I need more belonging. Maybe I need more pleasure (laughs) ," but we can't get that information if the urge is always this thing that we hate and we wish would go away, and, "Why do I have so many?" And, you know, "Why is it so hard for me?"
- MRMel Robbins
Well, let's talk about urges.
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Because you have so many tools, it is unbelievable. In fact, we're gonna link to this. But you've got 12 different tools or steps to coaching the people that you work with to control their urges.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Can you walk us through that?
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah. So, I wanna start with the word control-
- MRMel Robbins
Uh-oh.
- RHRachel Hart
... because I think a lot of times people come to this work and they think, "Oh, yeah, controlling my urges would be, I can make them go away."
- MRMel Robbins
Oh. You can't?
- RHRachel Hart
Na-ah. (laughs) Well, unless you can get rid of your lower brain, we're not gonna be able to make the urge go away.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- RHRachel Hart
But notice how you're a little disappointed when I said that to you.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes, very.
- RHRachel Hart
Why are you disappointed?
- MRMel Robbins
Because it would be nice if I didn't like, have any urge, 'cause then there would be no conflict, 'cause I wouldn't be thinking about it.
- RHRachel Hart
Why?
- MRMel Robbins
Uh... I don't know.
- RHRachel Hart
Oh.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, like, for example, I don't ever have an... I used to eat Big Macs, okay? No offense to McDonald's, but I used to, I used to love a Big Mac and an extra large fries. I would have the urge for it all the time. I haven't had the urge to eat a Big Mac in probably two decades, and I'm good with that.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
I don't know if I actually would want to not have an urge for alcohol, because right now, I realize that that urge signals that it's time to turn off my brain. It's time to do something fun. And so, what you're basically saying, if I am, if I'm now reading between the lines, is that I think the urge is for alcohol. You're saying, "Go a layer deeper."
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah. Saying, what if it has... What if it's... has useful information for you?
- MRMel Robbins
Wow.That's true.
- RHRachel Hart
So, controlling to me is my ability to manage and influence what's gonna happen next.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- 29:35 – 36:34
Tool #1: Name the urge when it’s happening.
- MRMel Robbins
like you name the urge, and it sounds like what once... Like what do you mean by name the urge? So let's just take for example the second that we are done, I am going to have... With... The second I'm done talking to you, it's gonna be dinner time, I'm gonna leave my podcast studio, I'm gonna look out at a beautiful sunset, and I'm going to have an urge to make a margarita.
- RHRachel Hart
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
So when you say name the urge, does it... It's just saying... Did I just do that?
- RHRachel Hart
No, I meant like when it's happening.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, okay.
- RHRachel Hart
And I love... I love that you're saying the sunset piece.
- MRMel Robbins
It's happening right now because now I'm talking about it, but okay. (laughs)
- RHRachel Hart
I love the sunset piece though because like the number of people that I have coached, I'm like, "How am I supposed to sit on my porch anymore and like enjoy a sunset?" And it's like sunsets were enjoyable-... before you started drinking, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- RHRachel Hart
We just, the brain started to associate, "Oh, I get a reward when I watch a sunset." So now when you take the reward away, it feels like something's missing from the sunset.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
Nothing's missing from the sunset, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Okay. You're right, except for the drink.
- RHRachel Hart
I think so. (laughs) Right, except because your brain-
- MRMel Robbins
I'm making a joke out of this, but it's not, it's not, I'm not, I'm not really this, um, uh, cavalier about it, but I do feel like there's two camps here. It's-
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... "It's poison. Nobody should ever drink. Drinking is a problem." I can already feel people who listen to the podcast who are sober and it is a really powerful, uh, choice for th- uh, uh, who are sober, and it's extremely powerful for them, being upset by this conversation, and so I just want to say something. And that is, this is a much deeper conversation than alcohol, and I want more people to listen to what you're saying than just people who think they have a problem with alcohol.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
I want every human being to listen to this conversation and feel like this applies to you because it does, because you're talking about the subconscious drivers that create your relationship to food, to alcohol, to money, to all of your behaviors, by the way. And alcohol is just one piece of this, and I'm gonna keep on making jokes because I think when I make a joke that, now I'm thinking about the margarita, which is true. Most people that have alcohol in their life actually operate that way.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
When you see the sunset, you're thinking about the drink you're gonna have tonight.
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And so now that... So when I leave here and I have the urge, what are, wh- y- I, I just as I'm walking downstairs, I say, "Oh, I'm having that urge to make a drink."
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah. Uh, so you can say it to yourself, you can say it out loud.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- RHRachel Hart
Both of it works. The idea is really just acknowledging what's going on, like, "Oh, this is an urge. I'm having an urge right now. This is desire. Oh, how normal." (laughs) Of course, it's here, right? This isn't a problem. This is what my brain learned. I mean, I think of the number of times that I would watch Mad Men- (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
Oh.
- RHRachel Hart
... and, and like immediately be like, "I mean, I'm fixing a cocktail and smoking a cigarette right now," right? And, but there was no... I was kind of on autopilot, and I just didn't have that full awareness of what was going on. Uh, as opposed to like, "Oh, of course. This is desire. Of course, I'm having a, an urge to fix a cocktail and smoke a cigarette right now 'cause I'm seeing it in front of me, and I'm seeing it presented in this very, like, you know, sophisticated, enjoyable way." So it really is just starting to narrate.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
I think that's a very, very powerful thing to start to be able to narrate what your brain is doing because all of a sudden, you're not at the effect of your brain.
- 36:34 – 40:32
Tool #2: Change your phone wallpaper to this
- RHRachel Hart
of mirrors. But the reason why I have it is because it's much easier for me to connect to that younger version of myself and say, "What does she need?"... because so often my internal conversation is like, "Well, you're not supposed to need anything," right? "What are you complaining about?" Right? "You're an adult." But if I think about, like, "What is she needing right now," right? When she's tired, when-
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- RHRachel Hart
... she's having desire, when she's frustrated, like, "What does she need in this moment?" Is it's so much easier for me to answer that question on behalf of her rather than, you know, 42-year-old Rachel who, "You shouldn't need anything," and, you know, "You should be able to push through, and you should be able to get more done, and you have nothing to complain about, and you should be grateful for all these things that you have in your life." It's like, "No, she has some needs and that's okay."
- MRMel Robbins
What immediately came to mind is I need a hug.
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah. But isn't that harder to ask for sometimes than a drink? (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
Well, you can't order one from a waiter. (laughs)
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
It's true. And I can make myself a drink, so I don't have to ask for anything, right?
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
But-
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... I can see that when you, when you showed me that picture of yourself, and I think about myself, um, like, what that, what... If I go to the 14-year-old me, that red Solo cup represented a hug and being welcomed into the group.
- RHRachel Hart
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
And so I can see what you're saying, that there is a desire to name when you feel that urge that is deeper than the food or the drink, or the pair of jeans you're about to buy, that goes way deeper, and that's what's driving it.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And so of course you would want the thing, and of course not giving yourself the jeans, or the ice cream sundae, or the Mai Tai feels like you're punishing yourself.
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow. So once you kind of label this desire and you, you start working through it, what are some of the things that, once you've labeled it, you need to do so that the urge, or this desire doesn't continue to drive you, but you start to change your relationship to the desire or the urge that you're having?
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah. I, I think a big thing is just, um, watching it pass.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
So that's a huge thing that a lot of people struggle with. It's like, "Listen, if I don't say, 'Yes,' it's going to be nagging me all night long."
- MRMel Robbins
Can I confess something to you?
- RHRachel Hart
Of course.
- MRMel Robbins
Is it normal for m- for someone to be worried that you're about to tell me not to have a drink tonight?
- RHRachel Hart
That I'm about to tell you?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes, that you're about to coach-
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... me through this process of noticing the urge, letting it rise and fall, and then at the end of this, I'm now gonna have more, more conflict (laughs) about the urge. And th- and then you wanna know how, how fucked up I am? Then I'm gonna feel like this is now all evidence that I have an even bigger problem.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
That's how much of a shame cycle I'm in around this.
- 40:32 – 49:39
Stop looking for answers from others. You have an inner knowing of what’s best for you.
- RHRachel Hart
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
... or looking for someone outside of you to tell you what's right. I think you have wisdom and information inside of you, and that's not like a, a wink-wink, you know, "You shouldn't drink." I really (laughs) do think that we have this ability to know what, what feels good for us and what feels like too much. But we can't access that if it's constantly in this place of like, "Oh, God, I shouldn't even be wanting this," or, "I shouldn't even have this desire."
- MRMel Robbins
I love your approach because, um, I can tell you that in my 20s, 30s, and early 40s, I definitely had a drinking problem. No question. No fucking question. Whether it was the lever I pulled to relieve anxiety, or it was escaping the shitshow that my life had become when we were in financial trouble, or it was just a deep, I think, sadness and feeling lost and, um, disconnected, and how alcohol can make you social, and make you fun-
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and make you forget all that stuff, and just sort of that constant cycle of drinking, and then regretting that I drank, and regretting what I said. And as I go deeper and I think about the person that I am now, and the fact that, you know, especially having a husband that doesn't drink, if he's not having a drink most nights, I don't have a drink. And I've wondered, especially given that I have a much healthier and balanced, um, relationship with it, why the hell I am so conflicted. You know, why am I not proud of myself that I have gotten this to a point where it's not a problem and it hasn't been a problem for a long time? And what I'm realizing is that it's so much deeper because it's about these desires and emotional needs-
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... that I've paired with alcohol.
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And that I, at a fundamental level, make myself wrong for wanting things. And because I can't tolerate the desire riding up and not fulfilling it, like, you reach for something. Because you know what's interesting? I bet if I were to do something, I bet if I were to just play the urge game, I would notice something.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And I bet this is what I would notice. I bet that on the nights that I don't drink, just because I'm not gonna have a drink alone and Chris isn't drinking, or I don't feel like having one, I guarantee you I probably buy something I don't need or I eat a big dessert, that I am probably so blind to the desire that, that rides, that comes up in me that I don't even realize I'm just substituting one thing for another.
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah, I got so much freedom out of that, (clears throat) um, really understanding that I was so fixated on my drinking for so long-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
... and then was like, "Wait a minute. Maybe it actually has nothing to do with my drinking." Like, maybe it's, it's the way that I approach trying to fulfill my needs and, uh, meet my desires and deal with, you know, negative emotion and give myself permission, uh, to have pleasure, and it was showing up in so many areas of my life, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
Like, I didn't think more is better just with, you know, a drink. I thought it was better with food. I thought it was better with stuff. I thought it was better with success. I thought it was better with, you know, money. I thought it was better with praise. Like, that was just kind of the kind of overarching principle of how I was operating.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
And it wasn't just showing up for me in one place. And that, I think that created a lot of freedom for me because (laughs) I walked around for a long time being like, "I don't know. I've got, like, eight different problems."
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- RHRachel Hart
Like... Or not. (laughs) Or maybe I have, I have one thing that I'm working on, which is how to understand, like, identify how I'm feeling and what I need and how to be okay with an unmet desire and how to fulfill it elsewhere.
- MRMel Robbins
That... is... incredible, what you just said, that there is one supermax problem underneath it all, and it's your unmet emotional needs and how you are fulfilling them and your ability to tolerate those moments when your unmet emotional needs go unfulfilled like that. That, that, you're exactly right.
- RHRachel Hart
It's just, like, such a relief, (laughs) was for me to be like, "Oh, it's just one thing. I'm just working on one thing."
- MRMel Robbins
How did you figure this out? Like, was there a particular moment? Like, did you have, like, a massive bender and then you're like, "I can't drink again." Then you, like, reverse engineered this? Did you go to school for... How did you figure this out?
- RHRachel Hart
So I, I mean, I spent my 20s going, like, back and forth between "I'm drinking. I'm not drinking. I'm drinking. I'm not drinking." But the not drinking was always, "You were bad. You should be ashamed of yourself. Now it's time to punish yourself. We're just gonna focus on saying no." And so I would say no and say no and feel like something was wrong with me and I was missing out. And I, you know, was very healthy, but wasn't enjoying myself as much. And then eventually I would, you know, give in and go pick up right back where I left off. And so I was in this process, (laughs) in this cycle for so long. And I think I, I, I fi- I had some awareness that it was bigger than the drink. I don't know how.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
But I, I think because I understood that I felt like I wasn't able to access a part of myself without the drink.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
I, I remember believing that, like, the fun Rachel, the real Rachel, like, she comes out with a drink. And again, there was a part of me that was like, "I don't think I always needed that." Right? Like, we may have to go very far back in time, but there was a much younger version of myself who felt comfortable in her skin and wasn't so worried about what people thought and wasn't always trying to avoid making mistakes. Like, that version of me existed at, you know, maybe I was three or four. I was very young. But I just, I had that sense that she had been there and somehow I had lost her.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- 49:39 – 56:30
Tool #3: Ask yourself, If you couldn’t drink for the rest of your life, what would it feel like?
- RHRachel Hart
I say mindset, I mean, you know, when you think about, "Well, what are my reasons for drinking? And what, what do I make it mean that I struggle to say no?" Right? "What do I make it mean, um, when I struggle to follow through on my commitment?" Um, what about the idea, even if this isn't where someone's gonna land, but like if you think about being told that you couldn't drink again, what about that would be upsetting for you? Because when you start asking these questions, it's gonna reveal some of your, like big, you know, overarching thoughts about yourself, your ability to change, your urges, alcohol, all of that.
- MRMel Robbins
Can we take some of them and can you share some of the common things that you hear?
- RHRachel Hart
Oh, sure. Well, I mean, o- over and over again, the, the thought that people have that I also shared is like, "I'm just an all or nothing person. I think I have an addictive personality. I think I'm just very compulsive with my behaviors." Um, I also had the, um, "I think my brain is missing an off switch." (laughs) So when I ask people, "Well, what is the struggle about?" it's always pointing to something kind of wrong with me, defective with my brain, some part of me is not functioning correctly.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
As opposed to, you know, what I'm trying to help people see is, like, what are the tools you need, right? Like, what are the skills that you need to be able not only to be curious about your urge, but also to allow yourself to have this unanswered desire and not make it into a problem or something terrible that we have to avoid. But yeah, "I'm an all or nothing person," um, that's a, that's a pretty common one.
- MRMel Robbins
I also, like as you were saying some of these questions, I was thinking, "Well, what does it mean?" Like, 'cause you asked one about what does it mean to have a drink.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Like, I started thinking about all these situations like, "Well, it's celebratory." It is, um, you know, like you're celebrating somebody. It's something you do in groups. It's a lot of fun. Um, uh, it's a way to bond with somebody else. Uh, it's a way to enjoy something. I, I have a lot of like, "I don't want to miss out."
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Like if somebody opens up, like we were at a, a friend's house the other night and they opened up one of those super expensive French bottles of wine where you have to, like push the gray dust off of it that had been gifted to them by somebody. And I'm like, "Ooh, I'm not gonna miss out on that."
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Like, I wasn't particular, I hadn't had a drink that night, but the second they pulled that out, it's like the gene of FOMO. "This is gonna be expensive. I'm gonna try this shit."
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Um, and so when you think about excuses and the big question that you asked at the end, which is what does... What was the big question? 'Cause it made my heart go, "Oh God."
- RHRachel Hart
Oh, um, like if you couldn't drink again, right? If it was like, "Sorry, Mel, we're telling you you can't drink for the rest of your life."
- MRMel Robbins
I would feel like I'd never have fun again.
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Like, I'd miss out on all the celebrations.
- RHRachel Hart
I mean, I was like, "I'm sorry, how are we supposed to watch March Madness? Like what? Am I ever gonna have sex again? I don't understand." Like, "What?" Like, there were just so... I was like, "Are you kidding? So am I ever gonna go to a wedding? Should I just not go to weddings anymore? I'm not gonna have sex. We're not gonna enjoy sports. Like, I guess I'm never gonna dance, you know, in public." I mean there were just, like, so many things. I was like, "Well, you gotta be kidding me. Like, you're literally talking about a miserable life. So yeah. No, thank you. I'll pass."
- MRMel Robbins
So what do you do if that's everything that you think? How do you handle the excuses?
- RHRachel Hart
Well, I-
- MRMel Robbins
Because obviously none of that's true. That's just a story you're telling yourself. And part of your methodology is getting you to go deeper than the thing that you are reaching for and getting to go deeper around these stories and these excuses that you have and understanding it. So when somebody fills all that out and they're like, "Okay, I'm never gonna have sex. I'm not gonna dance in public. I can't go to a sports game. My life will be no fun. All my friends who drink won't ever invite me out. I'm gonna endure awkward moment after awkward moment where everybody else orders a drink and I'm like, 'Could I have a seltzer please? Can I have the mocktail menu?'" And you feel like, you know, all of that and I don't wanna miss out on all the fun and I don't wanna do... Like, when you write out your excuses, that almost makes you feel like you would retreat toward binge drinking.
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah. Because it's like, oh, we- we're, we have nothing to look forward to, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- RHRachel Hart
So one of the things I talk about in all those situations that I listed, like the worst thing that's going to happen is a feeling.
- MRMel Robbins
That's true.
- RHRachel Hart
So, but, but I don't think we understand it that way. We're like, "No, the worst thing that's going to happen is my life is going to be over."
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- RHRachel Hart
So you start to be like, "Okay, so what is that feeling that comes up when I get on the dance floor, right? Totally sober. What is that feeling that I'm having when I'm sitting in the stands watching baseball and everybody has a beer and I don't," right? Like, what is that feeling? Like to start to identify the real issue here is not the drink. The real issue is this feeling that it's like, "Oh God, if this comes up, then there's nothing to do."Right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm. What's interesting is I'm realizing that the more that you apply this to your life, the more that what you're doing is you're just teaching people how to handle the feelings that come with not reaching for what you normally reach for in that situation.
- 56:30 – 59:35
Disappointment when you give up your urges is normal.
- RHRachel Hart
now, 'cause I'm not having the drink, or I can feel disappointed later 'cause I didn't follow through on my commitment. But disappointments come in either way, so which one am I gonna choose?
- MRMel Robbins
I'm reflecting on moments of my life in the last couple years where I didn't drink. And, um, you know, wouldn't have it, w- whether it's Dry January or doing various challenges for a couple months. And everything that you're saying is exactly right, because I would have these urges come up from 5:00 to 7:00, at night. And the second that I got through that sort of, the wave of feeling, and, like, I didn't feel like having a drink anymore.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Because it was a, it wasn't about the drink. It was about the desire, of feeling a boundary with work, or a desire to join in, or a desire to feel that liquid hug, or a desire (laughs) to just be comforted. And it did pass. I guess what I, what I wanna, what I want to make sure that anybody listening has is, you know, if you're like me and you feel, I feel much calmer now. Um, I feel like I understand what the work actually is. If I wanna get curious about what would a relationship with or with alcohol really look like for me that's very empowering.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
But for anybody listening, what is the place to start? Like, how do you even begin this inquiry if it doesn't involve not drinking for 30 days? You know, like, what do you recommend your clients do when somebody comes to you and they're as, like, spun around as I was when we started this conversation? "Should I? Shouldn't I? I don't know. Is it poison? Is it this? Is there something wrong with me?"
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
"Maybe there's something wrong with me. What's wrong with me? What is wrong with me? Why shouldn't I have o-" Like, just where do you begin when you're in the middle of this very conflicted normal relationship with alcohol? Which most people are in. I think most people live there.
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah. I, I agree. And, uh, I start people with really just starting to learn about urges. Learn about the brain, right? Learn about, "Yeah, I've got a higher brain and I've got a lower brain, and they've got different priorities." Because th- this is a piece that most people just have no awareness of, because we're not taught anything about it. And I think really just learning, like, getting some basic information, that is the best place to start. It really is, because I think it does kind of, like, dial back the intensity of it, 'cause it's like, "Oh. Wait, so you're saying that an urge is normal and not a problem, and doesn't mean that I have to wear a label for the rest of my life?" And, right? It's just, like, dialing that back can be really powerful. Understanding,
- 59:35 – 1:02:25
How to stop drinking without stopping drinking
- RHRachel Hart
"Oh. I have competing desires. This is normal?"
- MRMel Robbins
Oh my God, I just got something. I just got something really powerful. Holy shit. I just realized the hidden fricking superpower in what you're talking about, which is, if you focus and become very curious about the desire that comes up, the urge that comes up, the emotion that's underneath it all, the kind of story that you tell yourself, you direct your attention to that exploration, which is so important, because here's what I'm realizing. Do you want to know why I always lose the battle with myself when I wake up in the morning and I say, "I'm not having a drink tonight"? Or I start a Sunday night and I say, "You know, I'm not gonna drink this week. I'll just wait until next weekend." And then Monday rolls around, 6:00, I go downstairs, it's the sunset. I feel the desire to pour a gin and tonic because this is my boundary between work. I now understand what it is. When I start to get in conflict with myself, Rachel, "Well, you said you weren't gonna have a drink," but I feel like having a drink. What's wrong with having a drink? "Well, you said you wouldn't, and that's a lack of int-" I have a drink to shut that conflict down.
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
I'm not having a drink because I'm addicted to alcohol.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
I'm having a drink because I can't tolerate being in conflict with those two competing parts of me.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Holy shit. That's why the drink habit always wins, because it shuts it down. It's the-
- RHRachel Hart
And so then it's like, it's really, like, even less about alcohol, right? It's just like, how am I making it okay and normalizing conflict? Like, internal conflict is okay.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah. That's pretty cool. So you start by this inquiry, and you said you teach people about the higher and lower brain. Can you tell us about that?
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I, (laughs) I will say that, you know, I thought the brain was just a lump. (laughs) I was just like, "There's a lu- it's a, it's a lump in my head, and I just, you know, lost the brain lottery." That was kind of (laughs) my assessment of my own brain. It was just like, "I don't know, I just didn't get a very good one," or, "I got one that, like-"
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- RHRachel Hart
... "always wants more." So obviously there are, you know, I'm not an expert on the brain. There are many, many parts of the brain, but I think just understanding, at a very basic level, we have a lower brain that is concerned with the immediate moment. It
- 1:02:25 – 1:08:14
The difference between your upper and lower brain and what you need to know
- RHRachel Hart
does not care about tomorrow, it does not care about the future, it cares about right now. And that's a good thing actually, right? We, that was, that lower brain is really helpful for survival, but it cares about right now, it cares about finding pleasure, avoiding pain, it wants to do things efficiently, it wants to save energy. Now, thankfully we also have a higher brain. We have that prefrontal cortex. We have that ability, that part of ourselves that can think about tomorrow and our goals and our dreams and f- our future, and it can weigh pros and cons, and it can get curious and ask questions. Like, we have both parts of, of the brain, and that's actually an amazing thing if we start to understand, "Hey, how am I gonna manage this lower brain?" So-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
... you know, I also talk about it like the toddler. Like, how are you gonna manage when the toddler is freaking out? The toddler, right? Like, (laughs) I mean, like watch my own children. It's like they want what they want when they want it, and trying to have, like, an intellectual conversation with them (laughs) about why they shouldn't really want it and, "This is not how we beha-" Like, you're not gonna get anywhere.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
As opposed to, "Okay, I have this, I have this higher brain, I have this adult brain. What am I going to do in this situation to navigate the tantrum that is actually going to be useful?" Giving in, probably not so useful because then what does the toddler learn? It's like, "Oh, this is how I get my way. This is a good thing."
- MRMel Robbins
So the higher brain is the one that you're using to tolerate the urge?
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And to ride the wave?
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And the lower brain is the one that is going, "Oh, sunset, desire boundary, equals gin and tonic."
- RHRachel Hart
"No, this is what I want. This is what-"
- MRMel Robbins
"Yeah, this is what I want."
- RHRachel Hart
"You've taught me when we watch a sunset, I get a drink. This is what we do, right? I remembered. See? I reminded you. I saw a sunset, and I was like, 'Drink.'" (laughs) Like, lower brain is doing its job. (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
Oh my God, that's so helpful.
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah. Because it's like you, I mean, you, I think we all really understand, like, we, (laughs) we're not gonna have, like, an intellectual conversation with the toddler.
- MRMel Robbins
No.
- RHRachel Hart
I mean, like-
- MRMel Robbins
You're basically gonna go, "I understand that you're upset, and that feeling or desire is value, th- uh, that feeling or desire is true."
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
"And that's not what we're doing right now."
- RHRachel Hart
"That's not what we're doing. And I know this is hard, and I'm gonna be here with you, and I'm gonna stay by your side. You're not in trouble. You're not doing anything wrong. But you're gonna, I'm gonna help you see yourself through to the other side."
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
"And y- And like, and you know what? It still will probably be a little uncomfortable," (laughs) but so much less uncomfortable than like, "Why are you throwing a tantrum? You're not supposed to be having a tantrum right now."
- MRMel Robbins
Is there any... I know you don't tell people what to do.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
But is there any prescribed method? Like when a client that you're working with says, "Okay, I wanna try the... I wanna try to tolerate the urges. I wanna try to notice when the lower and the upper brain are in conflict and rely on the upper brain to get me through this moment where I am gonna go to a baseball game-"
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
"... and I, I'm not gonna order a beer." Is there anything that you tell people to do? Like, "For five days don't have a drink"? Or, you know, or do you talk about specific scenarios? Like, how do you get somebody to really start practicing this? 'Cause I can also see how this, if you've been in conflict for a long time, this could become one of those things where you think about it a lot-
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... but you don't actually try it.
- 1:08:14 – 1:17:13
Learning how to change means having a different relationship with commitment.
- RHRachel Hart
with commitment. You can't have an all or nothing relationship with commitment. It can't be, "I was good, I was committed, and I followed through, and I was good," or, "I broke my commitment, I was bad."
- MRMel Robbins
So-
- RHRachel Hart
That mindset, you're screwed.
- MRMel Robbins
So what do you do with that person who says, "Okay, we're gonna do the 30 days of not drinking and I'm gonna try the tools."
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And day eight rolls around, and it's a beautiful sunset. (laughs)
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Or it's a really bad day at work. Or you hear- you get really, really horrible news. The last time I wasn't drinking, I got news that a friend of ours died.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And I was like, "Fuck this shit, I'm having a cocktail." So if I were doing the 30 days with you, what is the data, like what can I learn from that day where I didn't keep my commitment to myself?
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah. Okay, so, there's a process, right, that I have people go through to actually look back and understand what was happening in the moment. Right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- RHRachel Hart
Like, when you were saying, "Fuck this shit," what was going on? What were you saying "fuck this shit" to?
- MRMel Robbins
Um, life being hard, commitment being hard, sticking to my 30-day promise being hard. Um, probably if I go a le- that's at the surface. If I go a little bit deeper, it was being really pissed off and really sad that my friend had died.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And wanting to just, like, numb it out. Like not have to feel anything. And sticking to a commitment or a new- or changing, you know, like developing those new neural path- that's hard work. And so, I did not want to have to work hard at, like, sticking to a promise, when all I wanted to do was fucking have a drink and lay down on the couch and cry about my friend.
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah. I mean, so, and all of a sudden we get to see it, like, through the lens of, like, oh, it was sadness, it was grief.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- RHRachel Hart
It was the belief that like, this emotion is too big, it's too much. I can't handle it, I don't want to be with it, I shouldn't have to be with it. Which also, so normal. (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- RHRachel Hart
And so it's like, yeah, of course your brain went to the thing that it's like, "I know how we get out." Like, "I know the shortcut." (laughs) Here's the shortcut to not have to feel our emotions, we have the drink. And so-
- MRMel Robbins
That's the lower brain. Right?
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
That's the lower brain going, "I recognize this pattern."
- RHRachel Hart
Right. And so all of a sudden it's like, oh, okay, what- this wasn't me breaking my commitment and being bad, this was me in the moment of having all of this pain and sadness bubble up, not feeling like I had an alternative for how to manage it or handle it.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm. How does recognizing that help you have a stronger muscle when it comes to commitment?
- RHRachel Hart
Well, when you think about i-
- MRMel Robbins
You know, 'cause you're right, 'cause I'm sitting here going, I totally agree with you. All or nothing when it comes to commitment. You're either good or you're bad.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
You either have integrity or you don't.
- 1:17:13 – 1:25:10
Tool #4: Establish your "why"
- MRMel Robbins
if somebody's already conflicted about whether or not they want to stop drinking, or whether or not they want to change their relationship with drinking, and I already see my anger's going to come up, my, uh, rebel nature's going to come up, my toddler tantrum-throwing bullshit's going to come up, my, um, concern that I can't make the streak is going to come up, and that's going to reveal that I have a huge problem, and yet I still feel drawn to want to take this on.
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
You know what it is?
- RHRachel Hart
So, there's-
- MRMel Robbins
I, I literally like am worried I can't do it.
- RHRachel Hart
Hmm. But what i- what's the thing you're worried that you can't do?
- MRMel Robbins
Um, like stick to not drinking for 30 days, even though I've done it before.
- RHRachel Hart
And even though I told you you didn't have to do it? Like, that was not the point?
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah?
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs) Well, s- s- listen, I think the reason-
- MRMel Robbins
I'm trying to figure out how to do this right. And I'm trying to get to the right answer.
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah, I mean, just so you won't be mean to yourself. I mean, this is all you're doing, right? You're like, "Oh, I'm just trying to avoid being an asshole to myself."
- MRMel Robbins
Yes. Yes.
- RHRachel Hart
If you just knew that you weren't going to be mean to yourself, if, if there wasn't the threat of, okay, when you screw up, right, we're gonna like, (laughs) beat you up and say all the nasty, mean things...
- MRMel Robbins
I don't know, I've never tried life like that.
- RHRachel Hart
No.
- MRMel Robbins
I think I'm gonna try the 30 days.
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs) But it's like, the, when people are like, "I just, I don't want to try. Like, I can't handle s- "
- MRMel Robbins
Not today. Not today.
- RHRachel Hart
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
I'm, I'm, I'm going on a beach vacation. I want to (laughs) reserving the right to watch a sunset. But no, I want to do, I- I'm like really interested in this, 'cause I th- I thi- I am tired of the conflict-
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... within me. And I think there's peace that's accessible in this, and it is very freeing for somebody like me, and I think for a large number of you listening, to go, "Oh, wait a minute. I don't have to choose between I drink all the time and I don't drink at all."
- RHRachel Hart
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
"I can end the internal conflict that I feel, and I can learn more about urges and desires and tolerating things, am I... And operate from my higher brain instead of letting my lower brain control me, and I can get myself out of this cycle of shame, and management, and conflict, and all this shit, by simply trying what you're saying for 30 days, of using these tools."
- RHRachel Hart
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And naming the desire, and tolerating the desire, and watching your excuses, and going a layer deeper. And how do we get information on how to do this?
- RHRachel Hart
Um, so you can go to rachelheart.com-
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- RHRachel Hart
... my website and-
Episode duration: 1:28:08
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