Mother Hunger: The 3 Signs You Have This Hidden Childhood Wound & How to Heal

1. 0:00 – 2:49

   Introduction

   1. MRMel Robbins0:00

      Today, therapist and best-selling author Kelly McDaniel is going to explain why you may feel so lost, exhausted, or like you're never good enough. There is this hidden childhood wound that you've been carrying for decades, and you're not alone.

   2. KMKelly McDaniel0:14

      We love our mom so much that we will do whatever we can to get her to love us. That ends up forming our personality. Whatever we did to earn her approval is who we become.

   3. MRMel Robbins0:24

      Kelly is a renowned holistic psychotherapist who graduated from Georgetown University. She's also the best-selling author of the book Mother Hunger. She explains how the connection between the struggles that you may face as an adult can all be traced back to the experiences that you had with your mom during your childhood. Is it fair to say that perfectionism, being hypercritical, eating disorders, people-pleasing, feeling like everybody's happiness is your obligation, this all points back in your mind to not being mothered in the way that you needed to be?

   4. KMKelly McDaniel0:59

      This is the most primitive wound our body can sustain. A mother is our mother. She's our nurturer, and she's our safety net. A mom is not our friend, so we don't always get back what we're putting in. We don't look to our daughters to necessarily put it back in.

   5. MRMel Robbins1:15

      How is having an unkind mother as damaging as having no mother at all?

   6. KMKelly McDaniel1:21

      Mother hunger that comes from a critical, unkind mother creates shame and rejection, and when we feel that from our first love, it is hard to recover from that.

   7. MRMel Robbins1:32

      This episode is gonna explain so much. It is gonna make you feel so seen, and it's gonna show you how to finally stop blaming yourself for the pain you didn't cause. Let's get into it. Are you a subscriber? If that subscribe button is lit up, it means you're not. My goal is that 50% of you are subscribers, and my team showed me that 57% of you who watch here on YouTube are not. So if it's lit up, do your friend Mel Robbins a favor and just hit subscribe. It helps me reach my goal. It's free. That way you don't miss a thing. Thanks for doing that. I really appreciate it. Please help me welcome Kelly McDaniel to The Mel Robbins Podcast.

   8. KMKelly McDaniel2:11

      It's a thrill to be here. The work you're doing is phenomenal, and I'm just thrilled that you're interested in talking to me about mother hunger.

   9. MRMel Robbins2:19

      Well, your work and this topic and digging into it, both as a daughter and a mother, um, has really changed my life and who I am.

   10. KMKelly McDaniel2:30

       Mm.

   11. MRMel Robbins2:31

       And I believe this is one of the most important topics-

   12. KMKelly McDaniel2:37

       Mm

   13. MRMel Robbins2:38

       ... when it comes to relationships that nobody's talking about, because we're afraid to talk about it. And so where I wanna start is can you define what mother hunger is?

2. 2:49 – 3:11

   What Is “Mother Hunger”: Why You Feel Lost, Exhausted, or Never Good Enough

   1. MRMel Robbins2:49

      For somebody that's listening right now that has never heard that term-

   2. KMKelly McDaniel2:52

      Mm-hmm

   3. MRMel Robbins2:52

      ... what is it?

   4. KMKelly McDaniel2:53

      Mother hunger is a term for a yearning for a certain quality of love that a lot of times we confuse with romantic love.

   5. MRMel Robbins3:02

      Hmm.

   6. KMKelly McDaniel3:03

      We may look for this kind of love from partners, from our friends, um, and be frustrated that it's not ever really happening.

3. 3:11 – 9:23

   The 3 Essentials of Mothering: Nurture, Protect, Guide

   1. KMKelly McDaniel3:11

      So that's one piece of defining it. The other piece is related more to what we lost. So mother hunger means one of three things went missing, or maybe all three of them went missing in your formative years.

   2. MRMel Robbins3:26

      Okay.

   3. KMKelly McDaniel3:27

      We need nurturing to grow the brain. We need protection in order to flourish. We need to feel safe. And then a l- as we get a little older, we need guidance. As daughters, we look for all of these things from our mother. We're already in love with her when we're born. We know her smell. We know her heartbeat. Her body is our first home. When we come into the world, we're expecting to stay close to her. Our bodies are designed to be near hers. That's nurturing. Stay close to mom for breastfeeding, for holding, for sleeping. We're not meant to be separated. Protection is that we feel safe enough, and she is safe enough to be close to us. If she's not safe, chances are we're not gonna feel very safe. So protection is a, is a big issue. Um, and then guidance. As we grow into adolescence and then we start to think about who we're gonna be when we grow up, some of us are lucky enough to have a mom that we can look to for that inspiration, but a lot of us don't. And so maybe we had a nurturing mother, but we didn't have a good guide, or maybe we had a very protective mother, but she was kinda cold, or maybe we had a, a mother that was just laissez-faire, "Go do whatever you want," and we didn't quite feel safe. There are just so many manifestations of if we missed one of those three things, we're probably gonna feel some mother hunger.

   4. MRMel Robbins5:01

      You know, one of the things that I love in your bestselling book, Mother Hunger, is that in the introduction, you tell readers that as you're learning about mother hunger, which is this kinda quiet grief that you feel because you have a big mismatch with the way that you were mothered, I guess, is the word that you would use, right? Your relationship with your mom. You invite readers to really look at the topic of mother hunger through the lens of being a daughter. Why is it important to give yourself permission to look with fresh eyes at what it was truly like for you in your household growing up, what your relationship was truly like with your mother for the first time with fresh eyes through the lens of what you're about to teach us?

   5. KMKelly McDaniel5:50

      Well, I think it's difficult to look with fresh eyes if we read this book as a parenting manual.

   6. MRMel Robbins5:54

      Hmm.

   7. KMKelly McDaniel5:55

      So f- if any of you out there, if you're a mom, it... The tendency to pick up this book and start to examine how you've been a mother or are a mother is, is ripeAnd we don't- that's not why I wrote this book. In fact, I almost didn't write this book because I didn't want women to have another thing beating them up about what to do as women, what to do as a wife, a mother. I didn't want to add to the movement that has already burdened women unfairly.

   8. MRMel Robbins6:24

      Hmm.

   9. KMKelly McDaniel6:25

      This book isn't about blaming mothers at all. It's about an invisible heartbreak that has been, until now, until we had a name, untouchable. When we know that we are yearning for a certain quality of love that just wasn't there, not because we're needy, not because we're broken, but because we're human, and this is what little humans need to develop-

   10. MRMel Robbins6:49

       Hmm

   11. KMKelly McDaniel6:49

       ... most of us didn't get it. The- our culture is not set up for parents to provide this for their children. So it's not about lack of love, it's not about somebody doing something wrong, but this is about growing up with an invisible heartache that's running the show. You didn't know it was there. You didn't know that's why you undereat or overeat. You didn't know that's why your relationships aren't working. You didn't know that's why you can't sit still. When we're sitting on a pile of heartbreak without words for it, we have to keep moving.

   12. MRMel Robbins7:21

       Well, you not only wrote the book Mother Hunger, you're the first person to coin the term mother hunger, which is now a clinical term. It is used by therapists, and licensed clinicians, and medical professionals all over the world. When you're sitting across from somebody-

   13. KMKelly McDaniel7:38

       Yeah

   14. MRMel Robbins7:39

       ... and they're talking to you about their life, and they're talking to you about their anxiety, or their self-doubt, or their perfectionism, or their hopes and aspirations, what are the signs that you see in an expert in this kind of-

   15. KMKelly McDaniel7:51

       Mm-hmm

   16. MRMel Robbins7:51

       ... longing?

   17. KMKelly McDaniel7:52

       Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

   18. MRMel Robbins7:53

       And this kind of wound?

   19. KMKelly McDaniel7:54

       The first sign I see is a lot of burnout. Mother hunger can touch our career aspirations or lack thereof. It can touch our struggle with our bodies and our health. Long-term stress like this, a feeling maybe that, uh, something is just wrong with me, impacts our immune system. Um, a lot of us have trouble with concentration because our life energy growing up went to finding safety rather than f- figuring out who we are. [laughs] All of our energy went into, "Am I okay? How do I make these people around me, my caregivers, love me?" And we didn't really develop our own wishes, longings, and, and our attention span really got short-circuited. So a lot of us grow up, um, with concentration difficulty.

   20. MRMel Robbins8:46

       So is it fair to say that perfectionism-

   21. KMKelly McDaniel8:49

       Mm-hmm

   22. MRMel Robbins8:51

       ... being hypercritical, eating disorders-

   23. KMKelly McDaniel8:54

       Totally

   24. MRMel Robbins8:54

       ... um-

   25. KMKelly McDaniel8:56

       ADD

   26. MRMel Robbins8:56

       ... AD- ADHD, ADD

   27. KMKelly McDaniel8:58

       ADHD, yep

   28. MRMel Robbins8:59

       ... um, not being able to sit still-

   29. KMKelly McDaniel9:02

       Mm, people-pleasing, yes

   30. MRMel Robbins9:03

       ... people-pleasing-
4. 9:23 – 19:58

   Attachment Theory: Why You’re Wired to Chase Your Mom’s Love

   1. MRMel Robbins9:23

      to be.

   2. KMKelly McDaniel9:23

      This is the most primitive wound our body can sustain. Because here's the thing.

   3. MRMel Robbins9:29

      Tell me.

   4. KMKelly McDaniel9:31

      We come here, and the biggest biological drive in our body is our attachment system. It is more important-

   5. MRMel Robbins9:37

      Explain that for somebody, like, in, like, super simple ways.

   6. KMKelly McDaniel9:39

      Yeah.

   7. MRMel Robbins9:39

      For somebody who doesn't know what that means-

   8. KMKelly McDaniel9:40

      I love-

   9. MRMel Robbins9:40

      ... like, just bottom line it

   10. KMKelly McDaniel9:42

       ... we are more biologically wired to attach to someone than to eat. That's how biological this is. Our attachment system will trump every other system in our survival network. So we're, we're wired to eat, we're wired to drink water, we're wired to attach. It's the strongest drive there is. Which tells me that if, I mean, if we don't have a safe attachment person, it's gonna have a large impact. So what's gonna happen, as we're little ones, and we become mobile, and we start moving around, the attachment figure that we have in front of us, we're gonna do whatever we can to get that person to attach to us. It's not gonna occur to us that that person, our mother or another caregiver, might be too busy, too depressed, too distracted, not well. Um, that doesn't occur to us. Not at all. That person's perfect. We love that person. We love our mom so much that we will do whatever we can to get her to love us. We'll go through whatever psychobiological gymnastics we can. That ends up forming our personality.

   11. MRMel Robbins10:50

       Hmm.

   12. KMKelly McDaniel10:51

       Whatever we did to earn her approval is who we become.

   13. MRMel Robbins10:56

       That's the clearest definition. Whatever it is you had to do as a child to get your mother's attention and love becomes-

   14. KMKelly McDaniel11:05

       Forms who you are

   15. MRMel Robbins11:06

       ... who you are.

   16. KMKelly McDaniel11:06

       Yeah.

   17. MRMel Robbins11:06

       And if you had a childhood where you were not nurtured, where you felt invisible, where you were not protected-

   18. KMKelly McDaniel11:17

       You were unsafe

   19. MRMel Robbins11:17

       ... you felt unsafe, whether that was because of physical violence or physical threats that were going on-

   20. KMKelly McDaniel11:23

       Mm-hmm

   21. MRMel Robbins11:23

       ... or your mom just wasn't around-

   22. KMKelly McDaniel11:25

       Mm-hmm

   23. MRMel Robbins11:25

       ... or that your mom was emotionally-

   24. KMKelly McDaniel11:27

       Mm

   25. MRMel Robbins11:28

       ... not safe.

   26. KMKelly McDaniel11:28

       Mm-hmm.

   27. MRMel Robbins11:29

       You never knew what mood she was gonna be in, or what tone of voice she was gonna use, or what was gonna set her off. Or you just can't go to your mom for any kind of guidance 'cause she's critical, or she's judgmental, or dismissive, or-

   28. KMKelly McDaniel11:45

       Or she was, in her own life, um, not safe in her primary relationships-

   29. MRMel Robbins11:51

       Hmm

   30. KMKelly McDaniel11:51

       ... and you could see that she wasn't safe, so you knew she couldn't protect you.
5. 19:58 – 32:03

   Mother Hunger in Relationships (Partners, Love, Validation)

   1. MRMel Robbins19:58

      You know, you say that mother hunger is very evident in romantic relationships. So can you give us concrete examples of how it shows up? Because I know that there's going to be a lot of partners listening that will understand something about the person they love or they're in a relationship with-

   2. KMKelly McDaniel20:19

      Yeah

   3. MRMel Robbins20:19

      ... better than they ever have-

   4. KMKelly McDaniel20:21

      Yeah

   5. MRMel Robbins20:21

      ... because of the things you're about to list off. What do you see in relationships-

   6. KMKelly McDaniel20:27

      Mm-hmm

   7. MRMel Robbins20:28

      ... that go, "Oh, there's a person who is struggling with mother hunger"?

   8. KMKelly McDaniel20:32

      Good. Love this one. Okay. So one of the ways you might see it in a relationship is, uh, the partner who comes in saying, "I feel like I have a, a child I'm taking care of rather than a partner. I, I feel like I do everything for my partner. I'm, I'm nurturing and I'm, I'm there and, and I'm, I do as much for my partner as I do my children, let's say, and I'm tired. I want a partner." That's one sign.

   9. MRMel Robbins21:06

      Okay.

   10. KMKelly McDaniel21:07

       That's one sign. The partner who's getting all that good treatment may not identify that he or she has mother hunger, because he or she's being nurtured and cared for. But the other partner who's doing all the work, they know something's out of balance.

   11. MRMel Robbins21:19

       Got it.

   12. KMKelly McDaniel21:20

       So that's one sign. The other sign is, let's say your partner's coming to you routinely saying, "I'm just not getting enough. I need more X, Y, and Z. I, I don't feel safe with you. I'm not feeling that we're having enough intimacy emotionally or physically. I want more." And you're like, "Okay, I'm in," and you all go and you do some work and you really try to meet those needs, and everything you're trying is falling short. And you've made efforts. You've changed. You've really done some good soul-searching and stretched your boundaries and you hold your partner more and you create a safe environment for your relationship, which might mean we're not on our phones at certain times of day and w- we're living with these certain boundaries. It's not enough. Like, everything you do is not enough. That might be a sign that this injury, this, that your partner's going through, the craving they're experiencing is beyond you.

   13. MRMel Robbins22:16

       Hmm.

   14. KMKelly McDaniel22:16

       Happen- it predates you, and, and it's your loving job to say, "I love you, but I can't do anymore, so this might be your opportunity to go do some deeper work."

   15. MRMel Robbins22:28

       Let's say you're in a relationship with somebody, and every time you go visit their family-

   16. KMKelly McDaniel22:33

       Mm

   17. MRMel Robbins22:34

       ... you see your partner become the daughter. They change before your eyes. They are on edge or, you know, they're bending over backwards. It's all about mom. The family dynamic is just, like, just overcompensating-

   18. KMKelly McDaniel22:51

       Yeah

   19. MRMel Robbins22:51

       ... to make sure mom's happy.

   20. KMKelly McDaniel22:53

       Yeah.

   21. MRMel Robbins22:55

       How do you be a better partner in that environment?

   22. KMKelly McDaniel22:59

       You know, that really works for some couples.

   23. MRMel Robbins23:01

       Hmm.

   24. KMKelly McDaniel23:02

       Yeah, and they can do that for years, and it's just not a problem. When it does become a problem, I like to invite the partner who is not in the immediate family, after the holiday's over, time to get home and rest, to just kinda gently bring it up when it's not a loaded time to say, "You know, um, when you were with your mom, I missed you. I didn't get any of you, and I feel like I didn't get to have a holiday with you, and I'm sad about that."

   25. MRMel Robbins23:34

       Hmm.

   26. KMKelly McDaniel23:34

       "Did you feel that too?" It's always best to approach from the heart rather than, "I can't believe the way you act with your mom," or, "Who did you become?" I mean, that's just not gonna work. But to really approach from a place of curiosity and love of like, "What was that like for you? Because you just disappeared. You became another person."

   27. MRMel Robbins23:58

       You know what's interesting about that approach? Is that if you have mother hunger, you're so used to either being criticized typically-

   28. KMKelly McDaniel24:07

       Yeah

   29. MRMel Robbins24:07

       ... or judged, or you're, uh, the doer, doer, doer or you're so busy monitoring-

   30. KMKelly McDaniel24:13

       Mm-hmm
6. 32:03 – 36:21

   The “Unkind Mother”: How Criticism Creates Shame, Rejection & Addiction

   1. MRMel Robbins32:03

      because I, I really think it's important that we lean into this sense of guilt and betrayal that we feel when we look with clear eyes at our childhood and the way that we feel about our relationship to our moms. Okay? So this is page 13, "No One Loves You Like Your Mother" is the section. "Mother hunger, yearning for maternal love, can come from well-meaning mothers who could not be there or from mothers who were there and wanted to love but did not have the proper infrastructure for attachment programmed into their own psyches. Mother hunger does not discriminate based on race or class because infant needs are universal. The kind of care we received as infants and toddlers teaches us whether we are worthy, lovable, and safe. Truly, what I've found is that having an unkind or neglectful mother can be just as damaging as having no mother at all." I wanna hover there. What, how does having an unkind mother, somebody very critical of you, of your weight, of your looks, of the things that you do, somebody not supportive of the things that you're interested in, how is that as damaging as having no mother at all?

   2. KMKelly McDaniel33:22

      Because that creates shame and rejection. If your mother, let's say, is dead, that hurts, but you don't take it personally. She didn't shame you or rejected you. She died, which is horrible, and that does create mother hunger. But mother hunger that comes from a critical, unkind mother creates shame and rejection, two of the worst things we can feel in our lives as humans, and when we feel that from our first love, it is hard to recover from that.

   3. MRMel Robbins33:55

      What does an unkind mother look like?

   4. KMKelly McDaniel33:58

      A mother who would look at your developing body, let's say, and say something really cruel about your body. Um, "You're too fat to wear that," or, um, a mother who would purposefully, um, pit your siblings against each other, um, in service to her. A mother who, um, uh, routinely wasn't there to pick you up, and when you got home and you were upset, she would yell at you. A mother who, when you came home from school, let's say, you're in second grade, you're a little girl, and you've had a rough day at school. The teacher criticized you, or maybe your best friend's all set at a different table and you weren't invited, and you go to your mom wanting comfort, and she says, "Well, who would wanna be your friend anyway? You're such a mean little girl. I don't know how you have friends." That's what I mean. A mother who literally cannot attune and will be critical. That kind of abuse, every daughter that I've worked with that has grown up with that will have an addiction.

   5. MRMel Robbins35:06

      Why?

   6. KMKelly McDaniel35:06

      Because an addiction gives us a sense of connection. If you think about the signs of early addiction, here are the symptoms. Well, there's a dopamine hit, so you feel higher, you feel happier. Connection does the same thing. When you connect with someone who likes you-

   7. MRMel Robbins35:20

      Mm

   8. KMKelly McDaniel35:20

      ... you feel a little bit higher for that moment. You get energy from it. You get energy from an addictious- addiction as well. And then you get more clarity. Like an addiction early on, before it becomes a problem, [laughs] you're thinking more clearly. You feel like, "Oh, I got this. Now I understand and I've got a goal." Same when you're in connection with someone who likes you, who's tuning in. After that connection, you don't feel depleted. You'll have lunch and you'll come out energized. You know yourself better. You know where you're gonna go next. That's connection. Every substance in its original form feels like connection. It takes the place of a human conne- it works. It's working on the same dopa-genetic kind of synapses in our brain that a good friend would, that a good partner would. But then we want more, and we go get more, and addiction is meant to cause a craving, and we have the craving anyway if we have mother hunger, right? So we're gonna go get more, and eventually addiction's gonna start kicking our butt.

   9. MRMel Robbins36:16

      Hm.

   10. KMKelly McDaniel36:17

       And that's usually-

   11. MRMel Robbins36:18

       That makes sense

   12. KMKelly McDaniel36:18

       ... when they end up in my office. And, yeah, yeah.

7. 36:21 – 47:24

   When Mom Guilts You: Parentification + Emotional Burden

   1. MRMel Robbins36:21

      So what about, uh, a lot of people that I see that write in talk about tension with their mom because there's a lot of loyalty owed. "I gave up this for you.""I expect you to be this." There's this sort of subtle thing that if you're not exactly like your mom, there's a betrayal. If you have different interests, if you have a different style, if you have a se- different sexual orientation-

   2. KMKelly McDaniel36:49

      Mm

   3. MRMel Robbins36:50

      ... that-

   4. KMKelly McDaniel36:50

      Mm

   5. MRMel Robbins36:50

      ... there is this tit-for-tat loyalty thing-

   6. KMKelly McDaniel36:55

      Mm

   7. MRMel Robbins36:55

      ... underneath it. Is that also in the lane of unkind?

   8. KMKelly McDaniel36:59

      It can be. Doesn't have to be, but it can be. It can go to unkindness if a mother has that capacity to punish you for not being like her, for not building her resume, for not being the daughter she needs to make herself look good.

   9. MRMel Robbins37:13

      Mm.

   10. KMKelly McDaniel37:13

       She might punish you. Some mothers won't become punitive, they become martyrs.

   11. MRMel Robbins37:19

       Give me an example.

   12. KMKelly McDaniel37:20

       "Poor me, my daughter doesn't X, Y, or Z." And then she needs you as the daughter to make her feel better, or she goes to complain about you to everyone else in the household, or to her own mother, or you hear her complain about you with her friends. That's a really tough spot, um, for a daughter to find herself, that if I am not my mother's twin, then she's unhappy.

   13. MRMel Robbins37:46

       Or if I don't do as she pleases exactly, she is not happy.

   14. KMKelly McDaniel37:49

       Right. I, and I think that for daughters who had mothers that, um, needed a best friend, and rather than go get her own best friend, she used you. You became her best friend. She needed you to hold her secrets. She needed you to fluff up her wellbeing, make her feel good. Um, a lot of times women with mothers like that develop a certain avoidant approach to life because they've been used. So they don't necessarily do some of the things that a more anxiously attached person would do who's hungry for more of Mom. They've had enough. They've maybe had a little much. They're a little suffocated. They feel a little icky sometimes around their mother, and they're ashamed. They love her, but no, it's my turn now to have a life. And I see with these daughters, mother hunger really creeps up on them. Like-

   15. MRMel Robbins38:50

       Mm

   16. KMKelly McDaniel38:50

       ... you mean I really needed mothering? I thought I had too much. But too much is almost, um, like a, a blindfold because it looks like you're being nurtured. 'Cause-

   17. MRMel Robbins39:01

       And it looks like you're best friends

   18. KMKelly McDaniel39:03

       You're best friends-

   19. MRMel Robbins39:04

       And it lo- looks like you're-

   20. KMKelly McDaniel39:05

       I mean, look, our, uh, Hollywood loves this. We got the Gilmore Girls, and we have, uh, Jenny and Georgia. So we have kind of Hollywood romanticizing this best friend type thing, minimizing that what's happening is the daughter in, in having to kind of grow up to either be her own mother or be her mother's mother or be her mother's best friend doesn't get to be a little girl.

   21. MRMel Robbins39:26

       Mm.

   22. KMKelly McDaniel39:27

       And so those needs that are developmentally appropriate at three and at five and at seven and at nine aren't getting met. A mom is not our friend. A mother is our mother. She's our guide, our inspiration. She's our nurturer, and she's our safety net. If we expected our friends to do that, I don't think we'd have any friends. We might pick a friend who's nurturing, a friend over here who's inspiring, and a friend over here that we feel really safe with, but that all in one person, no. A mother's job is big enough. She doesn't, she's not also our friend. If she's trying to be our friend, sometimes she's taking a shortcut. She doesn't know really what else to do, so... And she maybe had a mother that was so cold that the flip side of that is, "I'm just gonna be my daughter's everything." I get it. Um, but it's not the same as mothering. I think with our daughters, we don't always get back what we're putting in.

   23. MRMel Robbins40:17

       Mm.

   24. KMKelly McDaniel40:18

       We go get that from our girlfriends, our therapists, our partners. We don't look to our daughters to necessarily put it back in.

   25. MRMel Robbins40:26

       That is a beautiful distinction. I've never heard anybody explain that, that w- there's a huge difference between your role as a mother and the nurturing and safety and protection you provide. You're the only person that's their mom.

   26. KMKelly McDaniel40:43

       That's it.

   27. MRMel Robbins40:44

       And I shouldn't have the expectation that they have to give me back everything I'm giving to them.

   28. KMKelly McDaniel40:49

       Exactly.

   29. MRMel Robbins40:50

       Wow.

   30. KMKelly McDaniel40:51

       Maybe the most important piece of this is how critical our friendships are. And I think as women, too often we put our girlfriends on the back burner while we raise our kids-
8. 47:24 – 57:18

   The “Apology Ache”: How to Heal Without the Closure You Want

   1. KMKelly McDaniel47:24

      Parts can look like blame. Parts will look like sadness. Parts will be numbing out, um, because we can't feel it all day. We're gonna have to pull away from it. This is where the apology ache comes in.

   2. MRMel Robbins47:35

      What is the apology ache?

   3. KMKelly McDaniel47:37

      So part of the pathological hope, the hoping someone will change, I think also what I found with, that my clients taught me, is there's this craving for an apology-

   4. MRMel Robbins47:47

      Yes

   5. KMKelly McDaniel47:48

      ... that mom will one day kinda say, "I'm so sorry," and not just say, "I'm sorry. Forgive me," and then keep doing the same thing.

   6. MRMel Robbins47:56

      Or, "I'm sorry you feel that way."

   7. KMKelly McDaniel47:57

      Or, well, th- that's gaslighting. Yeah, [laughs] exactly. But an apology is, "I'm sorry I did that, and I'm actually gonna do something different now." That's pretty rare that we get that kind of apology. Any other kind of apology's not really an apology. So most of us, as grown-up women, are walking around wanting this apology. I call it an ache because it's almost as biological as the hunger. Please just recognize what happened, and then I'll be okay. I think when we're waiting for an apology, for a recognition of this is why you're hurting, before we know where that comes from, we want our partners to apologize. We want our best friends to apologize. We want our kids to apol- we need someone to apologize for the fact that our feelings are hurt.

   8. MRMel Robbins48:42

      Is it, you know, if the apology's never coming, is it possible to move on?

   9. KMKelly McDaniel48:47

      Mm-hmm.

   10. MRMel Robbins48:47

       Because I think we seek the apology because we ourselves don't actually honor the truth of what our own experience is.

   11. KMKelly McDaniel48:54

       Exactly, yeah.

   12. MRMel Robbins48:55

       And so you're looking for the validation from somebody to say, "Well, it's okay-""I still love you." And yes, that did happen. I mean, for me, I, I've said that so many times to Mike. It is, it is liberating to say to my daughters in particular, "I was dysregulated. I was under so much financial stress. I had postpartum when you were a baby and couldn't attach to you."

   13. KMKelly McDaniel49:20

       Right.

   14. MRMel Robbins49:21

       "If I could change it all, I would."

   15. KMKelly McDaniel49:23

       Right.

   16. MRMel Robbins49:24

       "I am responsible for that. Like, tell me how to change." Like, I, it is liberating-

   17. KMKelly McDaniel49:29

       Mm-hmm

   18. MRMel Robbins49:29

       ... to say that.

   19. KMKelly McDaniel49:30

       Mm-hmm.

   20. MRMel Robbins49:31

       At least it has been for me.

   21. KMKelly McDaniel49:32

       And probably for them as well. What a gift. But I think-

   22. MRMel Robbins49:35

       You'll have to ask them. I think it is.

   23. KMKelly McDaniel49:37

       [laughs]

   24. MRMel Robbins49:37

       But I, I don't wanna presume, you know? I think it has been a-

   25. KMKelly McDaniel49:39

       Still in process, but-

   26. MRMel Robbins49:40

       Yes, it's always gonna be in process. But is it really possible? You said you've gotta recognize that this is a thing. You've gotta honor the fact that this is your experience, and you're not being disrespectful by saying it. You're telling the truth to yourself.

   27. KMKelly McDaniel49:53

       I named apology ache because it's, it is a name that I'm giving one of the stages of grief, so it's actually a form of grief, just like blame is, just like rage is. Apology ache is f- a form of pining. When we lose something we love, we pine for it. That's normal. An apology ache is a form of pining.

   28. MRMel Robbins50:14

       Mm.

   29. KMKelly McDaniel50:14

       It's gonna be a ph- it's gonna be a phase we go through. We gotta go through it. And I think if we know that there may not be an apology coming, we can work with that grief-

   30. MRMel Robbins50:25

       Mm
9. 57:18 – 1:08:04

   Boundaries, Safe Support, and Why Healing Changes Everything

   1. KMKelly McDaniel57:18

      as the mother-

   2. MRMel Robbins57:18

      Yeah

   3. KMKelly McDaniel57:18

      ... of yourself. Protect yourself. Be careful who you talk to.

   4. MRMel Robbins57:23

      How do you know who to talk to?

   5. KMKelly McDaniel57:24

      Well, first, one of the safest places is to try a coach or a therapist and give them the book. If they don't already have it, give it to them. Say, "I, I need a place to talk about this," and if they're unwilling to do it, that's not who you wanna talk to. But any therapist worth the, their salt, or coach, is gonna say, "Okay. I'm here for that." That's a safe place. If you have a friend that's reading the book with you, or start a book group. Start a book group with your friends so that everybody reads it, everybody underlines what they wanna talk about, and you bring it in. That's free. You could even make a meal while you're doing it. So you might have to create your own safety net to protect yourself.

   6. MRMel Robbins58:07

      So as you're kinda waking up and recognizing how this need for nurturing and safety and guidance was missing-

   7. KMKelly McDaniel58:16

      Right

   8. MRMel Robbins58:17

      ... and that you long for it.

   9. KMKelly McDaniel58:18

      Mm.

   10. MRMel Robbins58:19

       And it's impacting you as an adult. You recognize the signs. You're lonely. You're burnt out. You- everybody's needs come before yours. You are a people pleaser. You're a perfectionist. You're super critical of yourself, or you have destructive habits. Like, you, you write about in the book how addiction can become a replacement for your mom. Once you have the self-awareness and you can recognize that this hunger for mothering, for nurturing, for protection, for guidance is there, where do you begin? Like, do you need to forgive your mom?

   11. KMKelly McDaniel58:59

       A couple things about forgiveness. When we forgive someone, mother or anyone, for causing us harm, sometimes we do that to stay in the relationship. Sometimes we do that and we still decide to leave the relationship. We forgive so that we are not bitter. We don't get stuck in anger. We don't get stuck in blame because those toxic feelings will make us sick. So we forgive for our own wellbeing-

   12. MRMel Robbins59:28

       Right

   13. KMKelly McDaniel59:28

       ... and our own health. If that forgiveness somehow brings us to a place that we can be in the relationship, great, but forgiving is not forgetting. We don't wanna forget what this person's capable of doing. We can forgive it, but if we also forget it, then we're being pathologically-

   14. MRMel Robbins59:47

       Hmm

   15. KMKelly McDaniel59:48

       ... kind of going right back into the storm expecting that we're gonna have the sun come out. And it's-

   16. MRMel Robbins59:52

       That goes right along with my favorite definition of forgiveness that I heard Oprah say-

   17. KMKelly McDaniel59:57

       Hmm

   18. MRMel Robbins59:57

       ... which was, "True forgiveness is when you stop wishing things were different."

   19. KMKelly McDaniel1:00:01

       There you go.

   20. MRMel Robbins1:00:03

       And that helps you also, in this case, not forget.

   21. KMKelly McDaniel1:00:07

       That's right.

   22. MRMel Robbins1:00:08

       You just stop that sort of toxic, pathological hope.

   23. KMKelly McDaniel1:00:13

       Pathological hope. Exactly.

   24. MRMel Robbins1:00:14

       You forgive the moment you say-

   25. KMKelly McDaniel1:00:15

       Yes

   26. MRMel Robbins1:00:16

       ... "I'm gonna stop wishing things were different and accept them as they are." One of the things that I think is really exciting about the conversation, frankly, is that once you see it and you can name it-

   27. KMKelly McDaniel1:00:30

       Yeah

   28. MRMel Robbins1:00:30

       ... now you can do something about it.

   29. KMKelly McDaniel1:00:31

       Exactly.

   30. MRMel Robbins1:00:32

       And the more that you really allow yourself the space to process your grief and your sadness, the more that you accept what didn't happen and what did happen, the more you look at your own mother through compassionate and understanding eyes, but you still protect yourself, the more you realize an apology's not coming if she's not doing the work and doesn't want to.

Episode duration: 1:08:08