Overloaded, Exhausted, and Ready for a Reset: 3 Doctors Give Their Best Advice

1. 0:00 – 1:07

   Welcome

   1. MRMel Robbins0:00

      I feel like I'm losing myself a little more every day. (instrumental music plays) No matter how hard I try, I'm always behind. (record scratch) Does that sound familiar? You're waking up before everybody else in the house, and immediately what's happening, you're up in your mind and you're triaging the day. You're going through, like, okay, the kids, and my parents, and then I gotta do this, and then I gotta do this. Caring for kids of any age, or aging parents, or you're caring for a spouse, and you're juggling all of that while d- holding down a job or managing your own health, or keeping the house together because you have to. The reason you feel so low is not because you're failing. It's because you're caring for everyone else, and no one's caring for you. I want this to stop. I'm bringing you three of the most experienced medical experts that I know that are going to teach you what you need to know that will help you get yourself back. They're not gonna just hand you another checklist. They're giving you permission to stop doing everything. You don't get an award if you run yourself into the ground. You are not just a caregiver. You're a person, and you deserve to matter too.

2. 1:07 – 7:33

   Are You Exhausted?

   1. MRMel Robbins1:07

      (clock ticking) Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you are here. I'm excited for our conversation today because this is a topic I've been wanting to cover for a while with you. And look, it's always such an honor to spend this time together. I'm excited to be here with you. And if you're new to the podcast, I just wanted to take a moment to personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I'm really glad that you chose to be here today. And because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I already know about you. First of all, you're someone who values your time, and you don't have a lot of time because you're busy taking care of everybody else, but yet you're still here looking for ways that you can find time for yourself, but also keep showing up for everyone else without completely losing yourself in the process. And if you're here right now because someone shared this episode with you, well, let me point out a couple things. First of all, that means that there's someone in your life that sees how much weight you're carrying, and they're worried about you, and they knew that if you listened, that this would empower you, because there's nothing more important that you could spend your time listening to or watching right now than the conversation that you and I are about to have today. Mm-hmm. Let me tell you why. There are three world-renowned experts who have shown up today for you, and all three of these medical experts, I want you to know something, they're not just giving you advice from some textbook. They're also parents, they're also caregivers of their aging parents, in addition to being remarkable medical doctors that are very busy at work, just like you are. And so they're here today with the validation, and they are here today with the very simple little changes, both in your mindset and some things that you can do that are gonna make a big difference for where you are right now in terms of the amount of caregiving that you're having to do. And you wanna know what breaks my heart about this? Like, you're drowning, but you keep blaming yourself for not swimming harder. And le- let me see if any of this sounds familiar. First of all, you probably wake up before anybody else in the household, right? And you do it because you're thinking, "Okay, I, I can have a little bit of time for myself." But what happens instead? 5:30 the alarm goes off, and immediately you start mentally triaging the day. Mentally, you're already going through all the things that you need to do for the kids. You're going through all the things that you need to do for your mom or your dad if you're taking care of them. "Oh my gosh, did mom get her dinner last night? Did she refill her medication? We had her parent-teacher conferences today. Did I pack the backpacks?" Already your brain is in it for other people. You're scattered, you're feeling anxious, you're feeling behind, and your friend Mel Robbins, you know what? I'm gonna put a word right now in here too, because you probably won't say this. Maybe you feel a little resentful. Maybe you feel a little frustrated, 'cause unlike your girlfriends who don't have aging parents, maybe they're able to do a yoga class, maybe they're able to get out for a walk. But you can't because there's nobody to help and there's nobody to do this, and that's how you start your day. And then you spend the next 90 minutes trying to get everybody else out the door, right? Somebody's melting down. Mom's wandering around the kitchen, or maybe she's already texting you, "Are you gonna stop by today?" And then you snap at somebody and you feel a little guilty that you can't hold it all together. There's no time to pull it together because there's a bazillion different directions. And then you're at work, and when you're at work, it's all about what needs to get done at work because they're paying you for your time. But then comes that one moment in the day where you think, "Okay, I'm gonna get a little break. I'm gonna have a lunch break. Oh my God, a lunch break." But what do you do with your lunch break? Oh, well, maybe you're running to the grocery store because that's the only time you have to do, like, a 15-minute sprint through the grocery store to grab enough for everybody. Or maybe you spend 25 minutes sitting on hold with the insurance company. Or maybe you're calling the doctor's office because you missed the well appointment for the kids, and so now you're sitting on your lunch break on hold caregiving for everybody else. Now it's back to work 'cause you're getting paid to work, and then you get home and the second job starts. You gotta take care of everybody. You got laundry to do, you got dinner to make, you got dogs to feed, you got a house to pick up. Oh my God, are you exhausted yet? I know I am. And when is it that you actually have a moment to yourself? 9:30? 10:00? And that's while you're folding laundry as you're watching a series? And then you collapse? And let me guess, let me guess. This is the only thing that goes according to plan any day, right? You wake up like clockwork at, meh, 2:00, 3:00 AM, and the thoughts are racing. And so if you're feeling helpless, and angry, and stuck, and resentful, you're doing it right. Like, honestly, you are. Like, this is... 'Cause you gotta wake up in the morning and do it all over again.If that sounds familiar, you're not alone. And if that doesn't sound familiar, but there's someone in your life who is currently in that caregiving cycle, I want you to text this to them or email it to them and say, "Holy cow, I just listened to this episode with Mel and I had no idea. I am, I am so sorry you're going through this. I think this might help." And there are small things that you're going to learn that you can do today, changes to your mindset, changes to the way that you take care of yourself in the middle of all of the things that are on your plate right now. And so I decided I really wanna help, because here's the first thing I want you to know, you're doing a great job. Like, with all the stuff that you have going on, the fact that you're still standing, I just wanna like... (claps) Bravo. Bravo. And you might notice if you're watching on YouTube, I've got stains all over my sweatshirt right now. This morning, I reached over my eggs and I just smashed my sweatshirt into ketchup. And you know what I thought? I thought, "This is perfect." Because how many times have you spilled coffee on yourself as you're racing out the door because you've been caring for everybody else and you don't even have time to clean it up? So, I was like, "I'm just gonna wipe the ketchup off my sweatshirt and wear it just as is, because isn't that the life of a caregiver?" Of course it is. And that's what I kept thinking about as I kept reading all of these letters that were pouring in. I mean, I've just got... You can hear it. There's, like, 50 pages of letters, right?

3. 7:33 – 13:39

   Caregiver Burnout Explained

   1. MRMel Robbins7:33

      And so the first thing that I wanna tell you, there is a name for this. I did not make up this name, but there is a name for this particular type of stress and this frustration and this isolation, and I'm gonna say it again, this resentment that you are allowed to feel when you are dealing with something called caregiver syndrome. And it's sometimes called caregiver stress or caregiver burnout. And once I read about this, I was like, "Well, that makes perfect sense." Because caregiver syndrome happens when the responsibilities of caring for someone else, whether it's your kids, your spouse, your parents, the pets, all of it, begins to take a toll on your health, your mood, and your sense of self. And check this out. Based on the research, even distance caregiving is a thing. Like, if you've got a kid who's struggling and they don't live near you, you're worried about them all the time. If you have an aging parent, even if you're able to put them into some kind of care facility, you're thinking about them all the time. And so you can have the same symptoms that are affecting your health and your mood and your stress even if you're not directly caring for your kids or your spouse or your parent when they're in a situation where they need care. So, you might feel tired all the time even when you're rested and then you're kind of like, "What's wrong with me?" And so I just wanna start out by listing some of the most common symptoms of what the medical experts call caregiver syndrome. Because what you're about to learn from one of our medical experts is that this is a particular type of stress. And here are some of the common symptoms. You're constantly tired, even after you've had a full night's sleep. You have trouble concentrating or staying organized. Oh, here's a big one. This one is like a ding, ding, ding for your friend Mel. You're irritable. Mm-hmm. You're short-tempered. Well, of course, 'cause you're fried from taking care of everybody. You feel emotionally numb or detached. You're losing interest in the things you used to enjoy. That one creeps up on you. And next thing you know, you feel like all you do is care for people and you haven't been to your book club in six months. You start withdrawing from friends and family or social situations, or you might notice that there's a change in appetite, or you're having trouble sleeping, or the sleep patterns are different, or maybe you're getting sick more often. And you keep going, "Oh, the allergy season is really bad this year." No, maybe it's caregiver syndrome. Maybe it's not the, uh, pollen in the air. Maybe you're so worn down that you don't even realize it. You start to feel like your needs don't matter. And here's a big one. Oh my gosh. You feel guilty when you take any time for yourself. I want you to know something. You're not alone and you're not doing anything wrong. You're doing too much for too long without enough support. I wanna share some statistics with you to really normalize how common this is. The Bureau of Labor and Statistics put out a study about this, and here's some of the findings. 7.1 million Americans provide unpaid elder care. To put this in perspective, that means 14% of the US population is providing unpaid elder care. If you're a caregiver, you probably spend an average of 3.6 hours a day helping someone else. If you're caring for a spouse, that number jumps to six hours a day. And check this out. 71% of you that are caregiving are the sole caregiver. That means you're the one juggling the medication, the money, the appointments, the logistics, the guilt, the exhaustion, then the feeling that you gotta be there all the time while you're still trying to be present as a partner, a parent, or at a job. It's important to acknowledge that this is a particular type of stress, and there are three reasons why the stress feels so different than any other type of stress. First of all, it's the loneliness. Like, you feel like nobody gets it. You're surrounded by people all the time, and yet you feel alone in this responsibility. The experts will tell you this, and I also see it in your emails and the research backs it up. 27% of caregivers, that's more than six million people in the United States, say they feel lonely. That loneliness is linked to an increase in depression and anxiety, and even physical health problems. The second reason why caregiver stress is its own unique kind of stress is because the stress doesn't end.It's chronic. I mean, when you're taking care of an aging parent or little children, there's no finish line. You don't get to just, like, clock out like you do at work. You don't get to hit the pause button. It's constant. That's why it's wearing you down to the extent that it does, and that's why you gotta look at this differently and attack it differently. And finally, the reason why this stress is so different than other forms of stress you may experience in your life is it's reshaping your relationships, because you're not just a daughter or a partner or a parent anymore. You're the nurse, you're the driver, you're the advocate, you're the assistant. You're the one who has to keep it all together. You're the cook. You may be even the medical person who's having to clean sheets and clean up your mom or dad or give them a bath, and the weight of that changes everything between you and the person that you're caring for. And look, I see this in your emails. I see that you're isolated. I see that you're exhausted. I see that your relationships are strained. And the thing that bothers me is I also see that you're making yourself wrong over it. Well, that's gonna end today. Today, I'm going to introduce you to these three amazing experts that are going to teach you what you need to know that will help you get yourself back. They're not gonna just hand you another checklist. That's not what we're doing

4. 13:39 – 22:22

   The Guide to Parenting from a Harvard Professor

   1. MRMel Robbins13:39

      today. They're giving you permission to stop doing everything, and I'm so excited to introduce you to the very first expert, Dr. Aditi Nerurkar. She is somebody who's not just an expert, but holy cow, is she living it. Dr. Aditi is a Harvard physician, a mom, and a leading voice on stress and burnout. And one of the reasons why I asked Dr. Aditi to be here today with us is because she's one of the first people that I've seen publicly really highlighting the specific type of stress that you feel if you're a caregiver, whether it's caring for young kids as a parent or caring for an aging parent. We don't talk a lot a- and validate the stress that you feel when you're caring for young kids, and that's why I wanted Dr. Aditi to be here. You're about to hear her citing the Surgeon General's advisory from 2024 that talks specifically about the kind of stress that you feel when you're caring for young children or you're caring for aging parents. Here's Dr. Aditi.

   2. ANDr. Aditi Nerurkar14:50

      So the Surgeon General's snapshot paints a bleak picture. It shows that parents are struggling and quite badly. In this snapshot of data, almost 50% of parents say that they are m- overwhelmed with stress on most days. 65% of parents are lonely. 77% of single parents are lonely. And we know that from prior data, 75% of parents have parenting burnout. And I think that based on all of this data, my hunch is actually that this data, as shocking as it may seem, is actually underreported, feeling a sense of guilt or shame, feeling like, "Oh, I can do it all. I'm not stressed. This is just what parenting is." And so people aren't coming forward and actually sharing that, "Yes, in fact, I am stressed." I'm surprised that it's only 50% of parents, because I'm a parent, and I know all of the science, and I am still stressed. The surgeon general says it beautifully. "Parenting is sacred work." And another phrase which I loved in his report was that, simply put, caregivers need care too. And so we can think about what we can do in our own lives and we lead with parenting ourselves. We are so good as parents on setting boundaries and limits for our children. When it comes to bedtime or screen time or what they eat or how much they socialize, we are fantastic with creating all sorts of guidelines for our children, and yet we don't do that for ourselves. We tell our kids to go to bed at 8:00 or 7:00 because they need a good night's rest. Their brain and their body needs to develop. Yes, an adult's brain is not developing in the same way as a child's, but it's not a grab bag. It's not like, "Oh, the brain I have at birth is the brain I've had for life." It is constantly evolving and changing based on external stimuli. So when you do prioritize your sleep or connection or do movement or when you do all of these things which might, you know, bring an eye roll from parents, you are actively changing your brain so that you can manage the stressors better. Of course, we know that parenting and i- raising a child takes hard work, and of course, it is stressful, but we need to parent ourselves because you can only pour from a cup that is full, and if you don't feel a sense of well-being and health... This is not just about the parent and mental health for the parent. Research shows that it impacts future generations. So in one study, parental stress and mental health, poor parental mental health impacts the child because children of caregivers with poor mental health had a four times greater likelihood of having poor general health themselves.

   3. MRMel Robbins17:42

      Okay, I wanna highlight that. So you just said, and I wanna make sure that as you're listening, 'cause I think also a lot of us in the trenches of parenting or caregiving of an aging parent, which is also, uh, an, also a grind on your stress as well, that there are different motivations for taking care of yourself, and if you're motivated by being the best parent that you can, understanding that your kids are four times more likely based on the research to have mental health issues if-

   4. ANDr. Aditi Nerurkar18:18

      And general health issues.

   5. MRMel Robbins18:18

      And general health issues if you are not taking care of yourself, there's your reason why. I'm gonna give you another one.You are not put on this planet simply to be somebody's mother or father. And until you start to take care of your health, you will always limit the potential of what is possible for yourself and you are also modeling for your children that what parenting looks like is sacrifice, stress, not taking care of yourself, and that's exactly what they're gonna grow up and do to themselves. And if you want your kids to learn how to take care of themselves, and how to be healthier, and how to prioritize good habits, you have to model it. And it is possible for you to take care of yourself and to give a little bit more agency to your kids and to your partner, if you have one, and to ask for help. And these are all functions of a healthy human being, which is what you want your kids to grow up and be and what you deserve to be now. And one of the things that I love about your advice is that it constantly comes back to not sitting around waiting for somebody else to change this, but the power that you have in your own hands to make a decision that, yes, it's stressful, but you're gonna get better at managing it. And sleep is a huge piece of this. Is there any other takeaway that you want somebody who is in the throes of caregiving to have as something that they can do now to better manage the stress? Because you can't remove all of the external stuff that's going on. You can only get better at how you respond to it and how you take care of yourself.

   6. ANDr. Aditi Nerurkar20:07

      You know that when you are going through a period of stress, your amygdala is on and that inner critic has a megaphone. And when you are parenting, that experience is amplified because of societal messaging, familial messaging, and messaging that you are internally creating. And so that inner critic, that megaphone, sometimes you have a megaphone in each hand when it comes to parenting. So first, understand that you are doing so much better than you think you are as a parent. Self-compassion, being gentle on yourself. If you mess up, you know, we know that in the parenting research, repair is really important. And so, of course, no one is going to be a perfect parent 24/7. That's humanly impossible. But understanding that you have to turn inwards and give yourself the same care, attention, compassion, and parent yourself through the journey is really important.

   7. MRMel Robbins21:05

      You know what I love about what Dr. Aditi is telling you? She's giving you permission to say that, "Even though I decided to become a parent, like, it's stressful." (laughs) And saying that it's stressful and recognizing that you're not alone as a parent, it doesn't mean you love your kids any less. It doesn't mean that you're a bad parent. It is stressful. And recognizing that in those moments of stress, you still have to turn inwards. You gotta learn how to take a deep breath. You gotta be more compassionate with yourself instead of so hard on yourself. This is a medical doctor telling you this. And you may be thinking, "Oh, okay, I'm not alone. Other people are going through this too. And I matter, and I do need to take better care of myself." But I'm sure what you're thinking is, "Yeah? And?" (laughs) "What do I do when I can't change anything? What do I do when I got four kids under the age of 10? What do I do when I'm barely getting the bills to be paid and I gotta get the kids to school and I'm worried about their anxiety? What do I do when, yeah, it's stressful, but I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel? I don't know how any of this is gonna change."

5. 22:22 – 42:29

   The 5 Questions to End Caregiver Overwhelm

   1. MRMel Robbins22:22

      And that brings me to the next amazing medical doctor and expert that has shown up here to support you today. I absolutely love her. This is Dr. Puja Lakshman. And one of the reasons why I wanted her to talk to you is because when it comes to caregiver stress, part of the problem is there's no end in sight, which makes you feel like you're out of control. And in fact, the research validates this. According to Johns Hopkins, one of the biggest contributors to you feeling burnt out right now is feeling like, "I got no control here. I have no say. I have no power." There's this loss of agency. That's the fancy way to say it, because basically, you are stuck in the middle of someone else's crisis, whether it's dementia, Parkinson's, a chronic illness, a disabled child, or maybe a massive bout of anxiety or depression that one of your kids or your partner's going through. And then you start to feel like, "My life is not my own because I gotta deal with this," and then you feel like a jerk. And that's what drives the hopelessness, this feeling that you can't change what is happening, because it's not just the tasks and all the stuff you have to do. It's like you don't feel like you have a choice anymore. And that's why you lose your sense of self. And so Dr. Puja Lakshman is here to talk to you about that. She is a psychiatrist, she's a mother, and she is somebody who has been through this grind herself. And her work focuses on how you can reclaim your agency when the world feels like it's out of control right now, not in some big dramatic way, but in the smallest decisions that you make every day. Because it's true, you can't control everything right now, but Dr. Puja will tell you, "You can change something." And I pushed her a little bit on it. I'm like, "Come on. Is it possible to actually take care of yourself and not feel guilty and not feel selfish?" And this is what Dr. Puja wants you to know.

   2. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)24:16

      For folks that are listening, I want you to know that it's possible to make a change and that feeling of selfishness or guilt that you get each time you set a boundary...... that doesn't need to control you. That that feeling actually is not the truth of who you are, and you're going to get some skills and tools to take away to really understand how to feel like you have agency in your life.

   3. MRMel Robbins24:45

      What does the word agency mean?

   4. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)24:47

      So I think of agency as the ability to feel like you can solve problems in your life, even when there are external constraints, even when your environment is stacked against you, that you can take action and that that action will cause change. That's what agency is, and- and I think that's power.

   5. MRMel Robbins25:09

      I love that she took the time to explain that because when you're in the mode of caregiving, you feel like you have no power. You feel like things are completely out of control, and I personally have heard the word agency a bazillion times, you may have too, but I really never understood how it was connected to control and power until Dr. Luxman explained it that way. It's true, agency is what's missing when you're burnt out because you feel like you have no control. It's being able to say, "Okay, I can't fix everything, but I can handle this one thing today." That's where things start to shift. That's how you get a little of yourself back, by reminding yourself, "I don't have to worry about all of the outliers here. I can just remind myself that I have control over this one little thing that I'm going to handle." That's the crack in the wall. That's where the light starts to come through, and we're going to let a lot of light in because Dr. Luxman is here and she has five simple questions that she uses with her patients as a check-in. I want you to answer them for yourself because in hearing these questions and answering them, you're going to locate yourself and know exactly where you are, where your energy is going, where that energy is leaking, and why you feel so depleted. This is almost like you walking into her office and Dr. Luxman is sitting there and she's going to ask you the same five simple questions, going to help you find some agency, and when you hear these questions, I want you to answer them for yourself because in hearing these questions and answering them, you're going to locate yourself and know exactly where you are, where your energy is going, where that energy is leaking, and why you feel so depleted. And as you listen, I want you to notice which one of these five questions really hits a nerve. Now that's not a sign that you're doing anything wrong. It's a clue about where you need to start to regain your agency and control. And don't worry, tools are coming a little bit later to help you do just that. Right now, we're just going to go through these five questions, okay, that are going to give you an inventory. And before I let Dr. Luxman ask you these five simple questions, I do want to say this. If your answer to all five questions is, "Nope, I don't do that. I don't even know how to start doing that," Dr. Luxman gets it. She's been there. We all have. You're not failing. You're just way overdue for a check-in. And these questions, it's not about setting perfect boundaries, it's just about getting honest with yourself. That's where you start, because once you get honest with yourself, things can start to shift because you can't control everything, but if you ask yourself these five questions honestly, it's going to tell you exactly what is the one thing you need to change. So here's Dr. Pooja Luxman asking you those five questions that are going to assess the areas where you can find more agency.

   6. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)28:20

      Do I feel motivated to tackle my tasks, or am I overwhelmed, or am I apathetic? Are there any particular people or situations that are constantly draining me? Do I set aside regular time for rest, or am I always pushing through and gritting my teeth? Do I ever ask for help, and when people offer help, am I able to actually receive it? Am I making time for things that truly matter to me, not to my kids, not to my partner, not to society, but to me, or am I constantly caught up in things that don't serve me?

   7. MRMel Robbins28:59

      I think I just heard the person who's with us right now slump a little.

   8. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)29:02

      (laughs)

   9. MRMel Robbins29:04

      Uh, there were a couple of those, especially the one, "Do I set aside time for rest or am I always pushing through?" that really was like ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. What does it tell you as a psychiatrist when someone is answering these questions as a, "No, I don't feel like I can tackle my tasks," or, "I'm really drained by situations," or, "I never rest," or, "I don't allow people to help me, and I definitely don't make time for things that truly matter to me, not to everyone else, and frankly, I don't even know what matters to me, I'm so busy taking care of everyone else." Like, what does that tell you when you walk somebody through these questions?

   10. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)29:52

       The reality is, that's all of us. That is all of us. That is all my patients. That is me at various times in my life. I think that we need to understand we are all under these pressures, so of course you're going to feel this way, and when I see this come up in my practice, again, this is everybody, naming it. Naming it is so powerful because then we can actually say, "Okay, what do we do? How do we work on this?" I imagine that most folks listening are, "Yeah." They checked off yes for everything. I don't want anybody to panic. I don't want you to freak out if you've checked all these things. You- you might be burnt out, but I think that we kind of...... treat burnout as, like, this dreaded, catastrophic thing. But when something is so dreaded, you engage in denial, you engage in avoidance. And then, you know, it takes landing yourself in the hospital or losing your job, getting into a car accident to finally say, "Oh yeah, I guess, I guess I am burnt out." So in reality, I think that we need to understand that's just part of the game right now because of the world that we live in. And the whole process of boundaries and real self-care is to recognize it sooner, to recognize it when it's like a little bee burnout as opposed to a big bee burnout so that you can start to get back on the wagon, start to get back into your boundaries, right? So you're not reaching that place of on the floor. (laughs) You know? I'm saying this because I want folks to understand that there are solutions. This is not incurable. And I walk patients through this all the time, and I, you know, I will say, if you're somebody who's Type A or perfectionistic or a workaholic, not that... I don't know anybody like that. (laughs)

   11. MRMel Robbins31:40

       (laughs)

   12. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)31:40

       You will probably go through this cycle more often because you are constantly sort of moving forward. So I will say for myself, I go through this, like, every six months where I have to kind of, like, reconfigure and think about my boundaries and, and relearn how to talk to myself, but there's a silver lining. It gets easier each time. It gets so much easier each time.

   13. MRMel Robbins32:06

       How do you define burnout?

   14. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)32:09

       I think it's a little bit chicken and egg-

   15. MRMel Robbins32:10

       Okay.

   16. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)32:11

       ... when it comes to boundaries and burnout because one of the characteristics of burnout is feeling like your actions have no meaning, almost like, kind of like a cynicism. Like, you're just going through the motions, but nothing that you do actually really matters or is gonna impact anything. And when you don't have boundaries, you also sort of feel like everything's closing in on you. You don't have a choice. You're not actually living your life; your life is sort of happening to you. I think it's tough. I think that, you know, this is one of the thing, this is why therapy takes so long, (laughs) you know, because you have to tease apart all the different pieces because certainly n- not having boundaries makes it more likely that you're going to become burnt out. But when you are burnt out and, and even little bee burnout, your boundaries are usually worse. So it's like this cycle that keeps going.

   17. MRMel Robbins33:01

       So what does somebody's life look like if they don't have any boundaries?

   18. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)33:06

       Yeah, so there's three telltale signs that tell me a patient doesn't have boundaries. The first is that they are angry and irritable all the time. That everybody around them knows (laughs) that they're kind of like a ticking time bomb, but the person actually, they just think that they're selfless. They think that they're doing everything for everyone else. So the perfect example is, you know, the mom that stays up all night on Christmas Eve wrapping all the gifts, and then the next morning is just like a terror and is like, "Oh my god. Like, don't you guys see that this, you know, wrapping paper is, like, perfect one..." And everyone's just like, "Oh my gosh, like mom has lost the plot."

   19. MRMel Robbins33:46

       You mean me?

   20. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)33:46

       (laughs)

   21. MRMel Robbins33:47

       Yeah, you mean me. That is me.

   22. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)33:48

       (laughs)

   23. MRMel Robbins33:49

       Like, and you know what I wh- w- what I was thinking is oh my gosh, I have that. I do get angry.

   24. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)33:53

       Mm-hmm.

   25. MRMel Robbins33:54

       I go overboard, and I get angry when I don't feel appreciated, and then I feel like a victim. And I have this whole thing where my family takes me for granted and, "You're not thankful enough," when really I didn't need to buy matching wrapping paper. I didn't need to go overboard and basically drive myself into the ground to make everything perfect. And instead of having a boundary with myself and stopping myself, I then become a victim and get pissed off at my family because they don't appreciate all the stuff that they never even asked me to do in the first place and they don't even want me to do.

   26. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)34:31

       Exactly. Exactly. And that's actually, that's the other thing that I see. That's the second sign, is expecting everybody else to be constantly grateful and thanking you when in fact they haven't even asked for any of these things. But you have this underlying assumption and need that people need to be pouring their thanks out to you, and then, you know, you're resentful when you don't get it. But the reality is nobody asked for it. You, you made that choice. The person that doesn't have boundaries is constantly feeling like they are managing their life as opposed to living their life. I see this a lot with my patients who are all women, mostly moms, right? Like, you feel like you're managing your family as opposed to actually being part of your family because you haven't taken the space to unload some things and actually allow yourself to be present. So another sign is that you constantly fantasize about escape, so whether that is, "I just need to go to a retreat for a week. I just need to lay on the beach." So the reality is those are escapes, and your mind goes there because you feel so overwhelmed and you feel powerless about actually making decisions and choices in your life.

   27. MRMel Robbins35:53

       You know, as I'm listening to you, I'm having this massive realization about boundaries. I've always known that boundaries are not for other people. Boundaries are like my rules for myself. But the mistake that I'm realizing that I made is that I've always made those rules about what I do and don't do with other people, and I've never hit that pause and truly thought about what are the rules that I have for myself that allow me to truly care for myself? And it's a completely different way to look at this topic.And why the pause then becomes essential so that you stop yourself from constantly pouring into everybody else and then running them over when they're not grateful, like I always do, or feeling like the victim or unappreciated. Wow, this is like kind of pulling on a string of a sweater, and now my whole life is unraveling before my eyes, and I realize I have a lot of work to do.

   28. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)36:59

       I'm so sorry. (laughs)

   29. MRMel Robbins37:00

       Well, I should be thanking you. Like, I- I'm- I'm happy to do the work, uh, to not drive myself crazy and into the ground and make my family, you know, the- the villains here. So it does beg the question though, how the heck do you start? I mean, am I gonna put my hands on my hips and be like, "All right, no wrapping on Christmas presents. You guys are getting them in the grocery bags this year, and you better be grateful." Like, I have a boundary. Like, how do you do this? (laughs)

   30. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)37:24

       Well, don't do that.
6. 42:29 – 49:24

   How to Set Boundaries Without Crushing Guilt

   1. MRMel Robbins42:29

      small. That's what Dr. Lukshman is all about, and she's about to walk you through this. How do you start small so the guilt doesn't stop you from doing it?Here's Dr. Luxman counseling you.

   2. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)42:42

      The number one reason that my patients struggle with boundaries is the guilt, so I'm gonna share a little ... a tool that can help with the guilt. So imagine that you are at a sushi restaurant, so one of those sushi restaurants where the plates are coming around on the conveyor belt. There is a sushi chef and he is at the center of all of the plates. That chef, the sushi chef, is your brain. That's your mind. The plates of sushi that are going around the conveyor belt are your thoughts, and your feelings, and your memories, and your desires rolling through over the course of the whole day. And now, uh, you know, you're sitting at that, that sushi bar and you ... There's gonna be plates that are really appetizing, like that you're gonna wanna pick up, and grab, and gobble, but then there's gonna be plates that, like really are unappetizing.

   3. MRMel Robbins43:37

      Yes.

   4. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)43:37

      And we all have different things where we're like, "Ugh. I just wanna push that away."

   5. MRMel Robbins43:40

      Yes.

   6. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)43:41

      But you don't do that at a sushi restaurant. You just let the plates go by. So that's how we need to think about guilt. Guilt is not something that is ... It doesn't need to be our moral compass. It is just one feeling that is there among many other feelings and thoughts, and when we frame all of our decisions around boundaries based on guilt, we're giving it way too much power. The reason that I think that this, hopefully this metaphor helps for folks is because when you visualize the sushi train, you're able to see that the guilt is just one small piece over everything else. And if you spend all of your time trying to avoid feeling guilty, you're actually giving the guilt just as much power.

   7. MRMel Robbins44:32

      So I'm thinking about the person who is taking their break, and they're gonna have their water and a little snack, and the second that they go down one floor and they hide in a room that nobody else is in so you can just take a break and set that boundary, the feelings of, "I should really get back to work. I shouldn't stay so long. I'm gonna get in trouble if I'm doing this." You're saying every one of those thoughts are just a sushi plate of sea urchin going by.

   8. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)45:03

      (laughs)

   9. MRMel Robbins45:04

      And you can just let it come and let it go, and stay and have your water, and keep in the pause.

   10. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)45:11

       Correct. Your job is to learn how to tolerate the guilt. And, you know, I know that this is difficult, but the good news is that as you start to practice it, it becomes easier. The volume goes down on the guilt.

   11. MRMel Robbins45:25

       Mm-hmm.

   12. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)45:25

       It never completely goes away-

   13. MRMel Robbins45:28

       (laughs)

   14. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)45:28

       ... but it gets so much softer. It becomes more of a whisper, and you're able to be like, "Oh, like, you know." It doesn't bother you.

   15. MRMel Robbins45:35

       How do you counsel a patient who is coming to you and the guilt is related to being a single parent, or related to caring for an aging parent, or somebody that is going through an illness and it's just non-stop? How do you handle boundaries and truly caring for yourself or asking for help in those situations?

   16. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)45:59

       People who are in those situations usually are in fight or flight. Their nervous system is hypervigilant and stressed for good reason. They are carrying so much responsibility. So the first piece is just to acknowledge the grief, really. Just acknowledge how hard this is and, and how much it sucks really. That validation goes a really long way. After that, there's a couple things. Recognizing that by setting a boundary, by pausing, you, you're not always gonna be able to say no, right? The boundary is the pause. Understanding that that will feel uncomfortable because there are a lot of people depending on them, but they have to start somewhere small, right? We're just, we're talking about the small things, the feeding and watering yourself, and you'll be able to work up to the bigger things. And acknowledging in those situations like, yes, there is gonna be a cost. Like balls will drop, you know? Nora Roberts talks about the rubber balls versus the glass balls, right? You need to know what those rubber ball, rubber balls are. It can't-

   17. MRMel Robbins47:04

       Can you give us examples of what they are?

   18. GBGuest (doctor discussing agency, burnout, and boundaries)47:06

       It's things like, I have three kids and they're all in different schools, and those schools, each one is like 30 minutes from the other. Do my kids really all need to go to schools that are 30 minutes from each other? That is a choice. That is a choice that you have made. Here's another example, and, and I talk about this in the book. I'm the one who is taking care of my, my, my father. My mother passed away. I have other siblings, but they are not contributing at all, and I've been taking this. I've been taking this for years and years and years, but you're finally going to understand that you can't do it all by yourself, and you will get sick if you continue to keep doing it all by yourself. So again, that's kind of like setting the boundary and understanding, "I need to have a hard conversation with my siblings. They need to chip in as well."

   19. MRMel Robbins48:01

       I just love listening to her. You know, one of the things that changed in my life after learning from Dr. Luxman, uh, all the things that she's sharing with you right now, is I started truly eating lunch at work. Like I was the kind of person that was like, "Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. I couldn't possibly take long. La-la-la-la-la la-la-la-la-la," and forcing myself to stop for 20 minutes and sit down and have a proper lunch made me feel human and more in control. It made me feel as though work wasn't running me over, that I still had a say. And so I'm telling you that because it would be easy to dismiss this advice as something that doesn't really matter-But I can't tell you enough how much this does matter. So start small, because when you start doing this, what you're actually learning is how to dislodge that internalized guilt, because it's the guilt that you gotta do it all that keeps you pushing even when you're breaking. You know, I also kept thinking about something else that's just as powerful, and that's the story that you tell yourself, that you can't stop, that you couldn't possibly take a break. That if you're not there, everything's going to fall apart. If you don't get this thing done today, you know, then you're- you're a lousy daughter, or you're screwed or whatever. The stories that you're repeating in your own head,

7. 49:24 – 1:04:33

   You’re Not Here To Disappear

   1. MRMel Robbins49:24

      you have to do it all. "If I don't show up, no one will." Like, you know, "Their well-being is my responsibility. If I'm not there, who's gonna be there? I don't have anybody to help." That story is shaping what you tolerate. It shapes what you believe that you're allowed to feel or what you're allowed to ask for, and that brings me to the next amazing medical doctor and expert on this topic, Dr. Rangan Chatterjee, who will tell you how he changed the story he was telling himself as he was in his busy medical practice and taking care of his father who was dying. He's going to give you a very specific before and after picture so you can understand exactly what he did and how he did it, the changes that he made. And Dr. Chatterjee is going to tell you what a huge difference it made when it came time to then take care of his aging mother. And when his father got sick, he threw himself, just like you have thrown yourself, r- headfirst into the caregiving role, not just with his time but with his identity. Caregiving for his dying father became who he was, and it almost broke him. But what's beautiful is what he learned from it and how that pain transformed the way he lives now and how he approaches caregiving, and that's why he's the perfect person to show up today to support you and teach you this last lesson: You are not here to disappear. Here is Dr. Chatterjee's inspiring story as he tells it.

   2. GPGuest (doctor describing caring for ill parents and solitude practice)51:01

      I know how stressful it can feel. I know how it can feel that there's no way out and you have no time for yourself. I was there. I was there for a long, long time. Now, I can reflect back and, you know, to put it in real context, in the months and years leading up to Dad's death, this is what my life used to look like. I would wake up... I- I lived, I lived five minutes away from my mom and dad. I'd wake up at about 5:00. I'd go round to Mom and Dad's. I'd help get Dad up. I'd help get him shaved and ready, um, and that could take all kinds of time depending on what was going on and how well he was. I'd then come home, try and see my wife and my young baby boy. Then I'd drive to work as a primary care doctor and be busy in the day. I'd try sometimes on lunch if one of the home visits was near my parents' house, I'd try and nip in and just check how Dad was doing. I'd then go back to work. On the way back from work after a long day seeing patients, again I'd go. I'd often end up coming back home feeling really, really stressed. My wife had already put my son to bed. I was chronically stressed. If I think about it now, the impacts on my marriage, on those early years as a father. You know, I don't believe in regrets, I really don't. Uh, I believe regrets in many ways are a form of perfectionism, um, but I believe I can learn from the past and I can learn from those mistakes. Not even mistakes, I can learn from those experiences and go, "If I was in the same situation again..."

   3. MRMel Robbins52:38

      Mm-hmm.

   4. GPGuest (doctor describing caring for ill parents and solitude practice)52:39

      And I have been in a similar situation over the last few years 'cause my mom has become more and more unwell. I'm very different now looking after my mom. My mom's like 84, 85, right?

   5. MRMel Robbins52:50

      How are you different?

   6. GPGuest (doctor describing caring for ill parents and solitude practice)52:52

      It's not my identity that I'm the only person who is gonna be here and responsible for everything, right? With my dad, I made it my identity. It was who I was. My dad being well was a reflection of who I was as a human being, right?

   7. MRMel Robbins53:11

      Mm-hmm.

   8. GPGuest (doctor describing caring for ill parents and solitude practice)53:11

      I would do everything. If Dad wasn't well, I'd done something wrong. I was gonna go and fix it. That creates so much inner torture when you see yourself like that. No one expected that. Like, that's the story I created inside my own head. Was it real?

   9. MRMel Robbins53:27

      I think a lot of caregivers do.

   10. GPGuest (doctor describing caring for ill parents and solitude practice)53:29

       Yeah.

   11. MRMel Robbins53:30

       That it's all on me. This is my identity. If they're not doing well, it's my fault. If I'm not here, no one's here.

   12. GPGuest (doctor describing caring for ill parents and solitude practice)53:36

       It's not dissimilar in some ways. I mean, when I, when I read The Letter Theory, one of the things I find really powerful about it is the separation between me and the other person, but in a, in a really beautiful way. Not a separation that I don't care. In- In- In your book, Mel, you write about how it's okay for other people to feel their emotions and feel disappointed. And, you know, you can apply the same principle here, Mel, where if the cost... And this was the cost, if the cost of looking after my dad meant that it was going to impact my ability to be a good father and a good husband, that's a cost I wasn't aware that I was paying.

   13. MRMel Robbins54:24

       Hmm.

   14. GPGuest (doctor describing caring for ill parents and solitude practice)54:25

       But now I know. Now, to be really clear, I have a great relationship with my kids. I'm happily married. It's just past 17 years recently, okay? Things are great. But I've learned from that, and now with my mom, who I love just as much as my dad, I'm not falling into the same traps.

   15. MRMel Robbins54:44

       Well, what I love about the fact that you as a doctor and as a son...... shared, that you made it your identity, you drove yourself into the ground. That didn't help your father, it didn't help you, it didn't help your mother. And that we've talked a lot about small changes.

   16. GPGuest (doctor describing caring for ill parents and solitude practice)55:01

       Yeah.

   17. MRMel Robbins55:01

       And maybe the small change that somebody could make is if you're able to see that this doesn't have to be your identity, it's just one of the things that you are taking care of because you really are the kind of person that values taking care of somebody else, it's part of your values, but it doesn't define you, that maybe that allows you to claim another 5% to 10% of your time back and say, "It's okay if they have a bad day."

   18. GPGuest (doctor describing caring for ill parents and solitude practice)55:33

       Yeah.

   19. MRMel Robbins55:33

       "It's okay if they're struggling right now. It's okay if they're alone for 20 minutes."

   20. GPGuest (doctor describing caring for ill parents and solitude practice)55:38

       Yeah. This, this is, this is so key, Mel. You, you... Th- exactly. And that's why I brought out your book, right? Because it's a, it's a key theme that I got from that book that I think totally applies here. I couldn't tolerate something, you know, me or someone not being there for my dad to meet his every needs.

   21. MRMel Robbins55:58

       Mm-hmm.

   22. GPGuest (doctor describing caring for ill parents and solitude practice)55:59

       Right? But that's ridiculous. It's utterly ridiculous, right? I would argue that I care just as much for my mother as I did for my father but in a completely different way. I practice self-care. I will do these things for my own, uh, health. I will also, the truth be known, like, if, for whatever reason, I can't do something, I'm not gonna kill myself-

   23. MRMel Robbins56:26

       Yes.

   24. GPGuest (doctor describing caring for ill parents and solitude practice)56:26

       ... like I used to do get it done. I'm like, "Actually, you know what? On balance, it's okay I can't meet every need from my mom anymore. Okay? It's okay if sometimes she wants me around and I can't be there. That's okay." Right? And it's okay to come round and see her disappointed. Okay? That's okay. And the funny thing is, I would almost argue that I'm caring for my mom in a much better way when I'm round there, I'm not tired, I've got the energy, I've given myself five minutes each day. And then there's another powerful story at the start of chapter one, where, you know, I talk about my dad's funeral, Mel. And I remember, I had back pain for years, chronic back pain-

   25. MRMel Robbins57:06

       Mm.

   26. GPGuest (doctor describing caring for ill parents and solitude practice)57:06

       ... and I saw this amazing muscular-skeletal expert who helped it, like, 70%, 80% for sure, but it was, there was still this niggling tightness. And I can still remember, Mel, in 2013, I'm at my dad's funeral, I'm in my best suit, you know, we've just had the ceremony, and I can still remember being at Manchester Crematorium watching the body go into the flames, and the tightness in my right back just vanished. And I second-guessed myself, I said, "Did that just happen? I know that happens." Right? And what I've realized, 'cause I've read for years about how the body stores emotions-

   27. MRMel Robbins57:44

       Of course.

   28. GPGuest (doctor describing caring for ill parents and solitude practice)57:45

       ... but that's the first time I truly got it. I got it. I was like, "Oh my God." The weight, the pressure that I put on myself, that I'm the one who's responsible for my dad's wellbeing, even though it was Dad who was sleep-deprived for 30 years-

   29. MRMel Robbins58:01

       (laughs)

   30. GPGuest (doctor describing caring for ill parents and solitude practice)58:02

       ... chronically stressed, you know, didn't take his holidays, somehow it's my responsibility, that was giving me backache. It's absolutely crazy, Mel, to realize that I needed to see my dad's flesh and blood being burnt for my body, for my subconscious to finally realize, "Oh, it's not on you anymore." That back pain was the weight of expectation I put on myself to look after him.
8. 1:04:33 – 1:08:43

   You are Strong!

   1. MRMel Robbins1:04:33

      First of all, you're not alone. The stress that you're feeling right now, it is real. In fact, I personally like to say, this is something that comes from Dr. Lisa Damour: If you're constantly caregiving and you're all stressed out, that's kind of like a mentally healthy response to what you're going through. So, you're doing it well, and you're not weak for feeling the stress, and you're not weak for feeling the resentment. This is just part of the package, okay? So, you're not alone. You're doing this exactly as you should be doing it, and what you're feeling is the appropriate thing to feel based on the situation that you're in right now, okay? So, good job. Second, and this is where we're going to turn the tables, you have way more power than you think. You have way more power than you've been telling yourself. And I hope Dr. Luxman, in particular, is convincing you that the smallest of boundaries, taking a drink of water, going for a walk, taking a bath, sitting down and eating lunch, those tiny acts of self-care matter because they signal to you that your identity is not just caregiving. Your value is not just in making sure everybody else is taken care of. Your value is also in the small moments of caring for yourself. Those matter so much, and you can build from there. And so it's so important for you to lean into that advice right now however you can. And third, you're not here to disappear. You don't get an award if you run yourself into the ground. You are not just a caregiver, you're a person, and you deserve to matter too. And that's why I am so proud of you for finding the time and making the time to listen to something that will remind you that you deserve to matter too. I am proud of you for listening to and applying the advice of these three amazing medical experts and caregivers who are reminding you that even when everything seems out of control, you can find control by creating small moments for yourself. That's how you do it. That's the realistic way. It's not all that sexy. It's not going to rescue you from where you're at. It's going to actually lift you up and help you with where you're at, and you deserve that. And in case no one else has told you today, let me be the person who tells you. You are doing more than enough. You're allowed to need help too. You don't have to lose yourself in order to care and love the people that you love. And this conversation that you and I have had today matters because you matter. So, as your friend, I hope you'll take the pressure off. I hope you will just dispend with the guilt because you are doing more than anybody ever expected. And please, whatever you do, don't forget that I love you, and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life one small brave choice at a time. Alrighty, I'll see you in the very next episode. I'll be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. Alrighty, thank you for watching all the way to the end. I love being here with you on YouTube. I also want to thank you for sharing this. This is such an important conversation. So many people that you care about are struggling with this particular type of stress, and you can give them free support by forwarding this to people in your life that are caregiving. So, thank you, thank you for being generous with this. I also want to thank you for hitting subscribe. I know you're the kind of person who supports people who support you. And when you subscribe to this channel, it tells our team here that you love what you're doing, and it supports us in bringing you more. And speaking of more, you're probably thinking, "All right, Mel, shut up. What am I going to watch next?" I want you to check out this video next. I think you're going to love it, and I will be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there.

Episode duration: 1:08:43