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The Mel Robbins PodcastThe Mel Robbins Podcast

Stanford Psychologist: 7 Small Things You Can Do Right Now to Enjoy Life More

You don’t have to wait for your life to get easier to start enjoying it. Today, Mel sits down with Dr. Kelly McGonigal, a renowned health psychologist, award-winning Stanford University lecturer, and bestselling author whose work focuses on stress, resilience, and joy. She’s here to show you how to feel more alive again by making 7 small shifts. And you already have everything you need to get started. Dr. McGonigal will walk you through your body and brain’s built-in resources for joy, connection, hope, and courage, and show you how to put them to work. Your muscles, for example, are like a pharmacy inside your body, releasing “hope molecules” when you move. And you don’t have to crush a workout to get started. A walk with your dog or a little dancing in your kitchen counts. One of Dr. McGonigal’s biggest insights: You need joy precisely because life can be hard. Those moments of laughter, closeness, and pleasure give you reasons to keep going, and you can learn how to create more of them. And you can practice these mood-boosting shifts on your next walk, between errands, or while spending time with someone you love. You’ll learn: –What joy really does for you and why your brain needs it –How your muscles can make hope – seriously –How to make stress your friend and use it to your advantage –How to use a favorite song to shift your mood and get yourself going –How to turn a meaningful memory into courage you can use today –How to train your attention to notice more of the good around you –3 research-backed sources of hope you can tap into when you need a lift You have not lost your ability to feel joy. And you don’t have to wait for it to find you. You’ll leave this conversation with small things you can do today to feel more like yourself, connect with people, and get more enjoyment out of the life you’re living. For more resources related to today’s episode, click here for the podcast episode page: https://www.melrobbins.com/episode/episode-433. Follow The Mel Robbins Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themelrobbinspodcast I’m just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is NOT intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I’ll see you in the next episode. In this episode: 00:00 Meet the Guest 03:53 4 Simple Ways to Find More Joy 06:34 What Is the Real Purpose of Joy? 12:20 Why You Feel Flat and Disconnected 14:02 7 Tools to Get Through Hard Times 15:32 How to Make Stress Work for You 18:30 What Are Hope Molecules and How Do They Work? 25:57 How to Feel Hope When Life Is Hard 33:47 How to Retrain Your Brain for Positivity 39:14 Your Hobbies Matter More Than You Think 41:58 Why Dogs and Cats Make Us Happier 44:36 What Happens When You Shut Down 54:20 3 Simple Ways to Create More Hope 57:54 Asking for Help Makes You Stronger 01:02:14 What to Do When You Feel Envious 01:08:42 How to Find Joy When Life Is Hard — Follow Mel: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/ TikTok: http://tiktok.com/@melrobbins Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melrobbins Website: http://melrobbins.com​ — Sign up for Mel’s newsletter: https://melrob.co/sign-up-newsletter A note from Mel to you, twice a week, sharing simple, practical ways to build the life you want. — Subscribe to Mel’s channel here: https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins​?sub_confirmation=1 — Listen to The Mel Robbins Podcast 🎧 New episodes drop every Monday & Thursday! https://melrob.co/spotify https://melrob.co/applepodcasts https://melrob.co/amazonmusic — Looking for Mel’s books on Amazon? Find them here: The Let Them Theory: https://amzn.to/3IQ21Oe The Let Them Theory Audiobook: https://amzn.to/413SObp The High 5 Habit: https://amzn.to/3fMvfPQ The 5 Second Rule: https://amzn.to/4l54fah

Mel RobbinshostDr. Kelly McGonigalguest
Sep 10, 20261h 12mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 3:53

    Meet the Guest

    1. MR

      Today, on The Mel Robbins Podcast, how to feel like yourself again, get your spark back, and bring more joy into your everyday life with world-renowned expert on stress, resilience, and joy, Stanford University's Dr. Kelly McGonigal. Dr. Kelly McGonigal.

    2. KM

      Yes.

    3. MR

      Welcome to The Mel Robbins Podcast.

    4. KM

      Thank you. It's great to be here.

    5. MR

      I'd love for you to start by just setting the record straight about what we're gonna talk about and how the person who's here with us is gonna feel when they're done and how their life might change. 'Cause you hear the word joy, and you think, "Oh my gosh, is this a to-do list for being happy?"

    6. KM

      Yeah.

    7. MR

      But what are we gonna talk about based on your research about how to feel like yourself again and to use this science of joy to do that?

    8. KM

      My core hope is that when you wake up in the morning, you want to be alive, you're happy to be alive. You feel like you have things to look forward to. You know that what you do matters, that who you are matters, that your existence in the world is a good thing, and that no matter what challenges you're facing, that you can handle them. And even in those challenges, it's possible to laugh. It's possible to feel close to others. It's possible to have things to look forward to. It's possible to do things every day that make life better for yourself or that make the world better. Um, psychologists sometimes use this term existential courage. I guess that's what I really hope comes out of this conversation, is that you feel more courageous to create a life of meaning and, uh, a stronger capacity to appreciate not just what's good in your life, but also what's good in you-

    9. MR

      Hmm

    10. KM

      ... and what's good in others and what's good in the world.

    11. MR

      My favorite thing that you just said was this ability to appreciate not just what's good in your life, but what's good in you.

    12. KM

      Yeah.

    13. MR

      Can you expand on that?

    14. KM

      I think, like everything that I do, I'm trying to be an antidote to despair, and there's a particular type of despair that people are comfortable talking about, which is looking out at the world and feeling like the world is falling apart. There's so much, you know, wrong with the state of the world, and other people are so disappointing. And I think people have a harder time, uh, admitting or recognizing sometimes we wonder what's good about us, whether what we do makes a difference, if our existence, you know, has a reason, if, if other people care or even know that we're here. And I think that when we are better able to recognize and trust the better parts of ourselves or even just the parts about ourselves that bring us joy, and when we're comfortable sharing that with the world, it's a really, it's a brave act, and it's a transformative act.

    15. MR

      I had this moment, Oprah calls it a light bulb aha moment, when you were talking, 'cause I've never heard anybody so simply and profoundly explain that there are two types of despair and discouragement that you experience in life. I love that you have just aimed our focus at something that's hard to talk about, which is the despair quietly and the discouragement that we feel, often alone, as we wonder, as we lie awake at night. And I suppose that where we're going is... And I know where we're going-

    16. KM

      [laughs]

    17. MR

      ... 'cause I've read your next blockbuster bestseller, and I love your research and your work, is that you're gonna shine a light on the interior life

  2. 3:53 – 6:34

    4 Simple Ways to Find More Joy

    1. MR

      that you have. Dr. McGonigal, what is the definition of joy?

    2. KM

      Let me start by something that is very easy for most people to understand. I'm gonna give you the opposite of joy first.

    3. MR

      Okay.

    4. KM

      I've learned through experience to walk my way into joy. So imagine, you know the feeling when you get bad news, or something goes wrong, or someone says something that hurts you, and immediately it's like a punch to the stomach. Your heart sinks. You feel heavier. You feel more pessimistic. You just immediately feel worse about yourself or worse about life, and it often happens in a flash, but it can linger. It has this residue. So joy is the opposite of that. It's when something goes right, or you notice something wonderful, or something good happens, or someone says something nice, and you immediately, your heart lifts. You feel lighter. Your, your gut is telling you this is a moment that matters. You feel like you can breathe. And no matter how small, small or big the moment is, you have a more positive outlook. You feel better about yourself and better about life. That's joy, and, you know, I've asked, um, thousands of people to tell me, like, "What's something that brought you joy in the last 24 hours?" And also, people have published research from all over the world. It's so consistent what brings people joy, and I think sometimes knowing what the categories are also helps people understand what I'm talking about.

    5. MR

      Yeah, what are the categories?

    6. KM

      Number one is feeling connected or close to someone, and the, one of the easiest examples of that is people will tell me about a moment when they laughed with someone. And that, just in that moment, it's a biological reality. You are connected. You feel close to someone. Uh, the number two is when you do something that makes you feel good about yourself and who you are. It could be that you made progress on a goal and you got good news, or it could be that you did something that you've been putting off, or it could be you did something that's aligned with your values. It could be you helped someone, or someone tells you that you did something that made things, you know, better. And then we have the third category is noticing something wonderful or beautiful in the world. It's often nature. It's amazing how many joy reports I get from people, "I heard a bird sing." I, I, I just be like, "Why? Why are there so many birds in these joy reports?" But people in that moment feel, uh, connected to the good in life itself.

    7. MR

      Mm.

    8. KM

      And then, um, the next biggest category is moments where you are enjoying something that you love, whether it's an activity or, uh, you know, that, that thing that you love beyond reason, or you're just in the moment doing something you enjoy and you're able to, to feel in that moment or be in that moment.

  3. 6:34 – 12:20

    What Is the Real Purpose of Joy?

    1. MR

      Can you put this into context for why this truly does matter and it's critical for your life and your meaning in your life?

    2. KM

      Yeah. I mean, people sometimes hear the word joy and they think that what we're talking about is that, like, moment when everything in your life is perfect, no problems, no pain, nothing you're worried about, and we think that joy is the, the, the emotional reward you get when everything aligns in your life and in the world, and if that isn't true, it's irresponsible, or it's foolish, or it's naive, or it's actually impossible to feel anything that we would call joy. The place that I al- often think about to start with joy is in that internal, close to home place, that even when the world is in chaos, your full humanity is still available to you. And I know this is true because m- when I teach classes about joy, I often have people joining from war zones who have lost loved ones in war and are being bombed. In the middle, and they're taking an online class, and what they tell... It's so funny because I will often have some students write me and be like, "Isn't it irresponsible or actually, like, impossible to be talking about joy right now when there's a war going on?" And then someone living in that war will, will send a message that I share with the class that says, "This, we need joy. This is why we need joy," because life is so uncontrollable and so many terrible things are happening, and they're experiencing this thing that is true for all of us, that even in that context, there's a part of you who can still find things to laugh about. There's a part of you who wants to connect with others and is absolutely capable of it. There is a part of you who is capable of noticing beauty in the world and putting beauty in the world, that, that you don't need to wait for external circumstances to align to experience those parts of yourself.

    3. MR

      Wait a minute. I just saw something, and I wanna give this back to you to see if I'm tracking. So if you have moments in life where there's external forces that cause you to feel despair, and that then makes you feel despair internally, when it comes to the positive experiences of joy, of love, of beauty, those things are external in your life, whether it's weddings or puppies or sunsets or dancing, you know, at a concert with your friends to your favorite band, and of course, that impacts how you feel internally. I just understood why the science of joy matters so much. Because if the signaling from the world is overwhelmingly negative, you're gonna feel internally so heavy and negative. And in those moments, tapping into signals that there's still good, there's still happiness, that there's still a reason to move forward, that there's still something you can do, that is what balances you out when life gets very heavy, when the world is very heavy. This isn't like jazz hands and happiness and, you know, something on the surface. This is deep within us. Is that what you're saying?

    4. KM

      The core function of joy is to make you want to be alive. Joy would not exist if life were not hard. We wouldn't need it, actually. Um, joy is a particular type of uplift that pulls you up from when you're feeling stuck or sad or hopeless, and that is why you have the capacity to be uplifted by things that are good. It's why you have the capacity, in a moment when you're laughing with someone else and your brains start to synchronize and you're, you feel connected to someone, your body and brain are wired to have that moment of closeness because the reality is that it's hard to be human.

    5. MR

      And you're here to remind us-

    6. KM

      Yeah. [laughs]

    7. MR

      ... that we have wiring in our bodies-

    8. KM

      Yeah

    9. MR

      ... brains, and resources in us-

    10. KM

      Mm-hmm

    11. MR

      ... to tap into this fundamental need. You said the core function of joy-

    12. KM

      Yeah

    13. MR

      ... is to make you want to live-

    14. KM

      Yeah

    15. MR

      ... to push through, to keep going, to, like, evolve and grow, and that's a beautiful way to think about this.

    16. KM

      Yeah.

    17. MR

      And-

    18. KM

      It's a survival instinct

    19. MR

      ... I've never heard anybody say that, but it makes sense because, like, if there's too much negative input, of course you're gonna give up.

    20. KM

      So I often collect these joy reports where I just ask people what's something recent that brought you joy, and then, uh, I collect some of the ones that I think would surprise people, and some of the ones that really stood out to me that I received recently, um, one was taking care of a spouse who was going through chemotherapy.

    21. MR

      Mm.

    22. KM

      And it was messy and gross, and she said, "I think I could do this for the rest of my life because I just, I feel so much love, and, like, like, what I'm doing matters." And then another was, um, a student who talked about, um, being in a bomb shelter and talking with neighbors and saying that he had never felt so close to other human beings as he had in that moment, and that it was one of the most joyful experiences of his life. Now, you... Nobody wants that experience. Nobody would describe that as a happy moment or a positive moment, but our... It's the thing is we have this capacity, and actually, all of those were examples of the most common source of joy, which is to feel close or connected to others, and also to feel like who you are matters.

    23. MR

      Those are beautiful examples, and it also makes your definition of joy, which is the core function is to make you want to live-

    24. KM

      Mm

    25. MR

      ... really powerful.

  4. 12:20 – 14:02

    Why You Feel Flat and Disconnected

    1. MR

      I wanna read you some of the things that listeners in the 194 countries that watch and listen to this show wrote in about. And maybe as you're watching right now, or you're taking, uh, Dr. McGonigal and I on a walk, or in the car, or you have us with you as you're busy working, maybe you feel some of these things. Maybe people in your life feel these things. "I don't feel like myself. Nothing excites me. I feel flat. I am always waiting for something bad to happen. I'm tired of feeling exhausted all the time."

    2. KM

      Mm-hmm.

    3. MR

      When you hear that, what do you hear?

    4. KM

      I hear something that's very easy to relate to. It's hard to be human. And I... The first thing I wanna say is, it makes a lot of sense to feel that way as a response to life, and also, it's not a, a fixed, permanent state. You know, your brain is hardwired to find meaning or make meaning. Your nervous system is primed to connect with people. And even at the level of your muscles, your muscles can manufacture and secrete something called hope molecules, that when you just literally engage with life using your body, that travel through your bloodstream to your brain and act like an antidepressant. There are so many resources we have, you know? And we have the will to connect, the will to find meaning, the will to celebrate, the will to experience pleasure, even in dark moments. And, um, these are, these are parts of yourself that you can learn to harness.

  5. 14:02 – 15:32

    7 Tools to Get Through Hard Times

    1. MR

      Now, is the research that you're about to share with us, is that the pathway to making the hard moments day to day easier?

    2. KM

      The research that I focus on is the, the resources you already have because you're a human being.

    3. MR

      Okay.

    4. KM

      And part of that's gonna be your body. Part of it's gonna be your brain. Part of it is your attention, which is a resource that we can use and train. Part of it's gonna be instincts that we can harness. Having agency is the opposite of feeling like there's nothing you can do to, to change a situation, to make things better, to get closer to what you want, to help people you care about, the sense that there's nothing I can do. I don't see any way forward or out. And I think the most beautiful thing about human nature is that, you know, some part of us wants to survive, and to survive, we need things like meaning and hope and connection. And so we do have all of these resources.

    5. MR

      So the good news is, Dr. McGonigal, as I was listening to you, there were seven things that you have right in front of you, that you have the ability, and you're gonna teach us how, to use as free resources to take control of where you are and to start feeling more like yourself and better

    6. KM

      Mm-hmm. And to help the people in your life feel that way, too.

    7. MR

      Amazing. You said the body, the brain, your attention, instinct, emotions, choices, relationships. That's seven things, and I think that's such a hopeful and amazing place to begin.

  6. 15:32 – 18:30

    How to Make Stress Work for You

    1. MR

      So the first resource that we have is our body.

    2. KM

      Yeah. Um, two ways I think about the body. I mean, one is you can literally place your hands on your body. You're breathing already, right? You can feel that.

    3. MR

      I put my hands on my heart. So even if you have a steering wheel in one hand, you can put it, the other hand on your heart. Yeah, I feel I'm breathing.

    4. KM

      So you're already breathing. That's your connection to life. Your body is working so hard to support you. Like, that could be a very simple way of just connecting to this idea that your body is a resource, and you are already here, and you have that ability to engage with life.

    5. MR

      So much of your work is around the, the research related to stress.

    6. KM

      Mm-hmm.

    7. MR

      And you have one of the most popular TED Talks of all time on the science of stress, and you think that we all completely misunderstand stress. So Dr. McGonigal, what do people misunderstand about stress?

    8. KM

      Mm-hmm. The number one thing people misunderstand about stress is when they feel stressed, they think it is their brain and their body betraying them, and that the most important thing they can do in that moment is to try to feel less stressed. The reality is, stress, what you experience as stress, is your brain and your body trying to help you in a moment that matters. And every symptom of stress we don't like is your body and brain trying to do something that is useful. So feeling your heart racing-

    9. MR

      Yes

    10. KM

      ... or sometimes we feel, like, our blood pressure rising, that is the sign that, two things. Your body is trying to give you energy, right? That's literally, that's all that is. Your heart is possibly pounding faster, or it's, it's contracting out more blood with every pump so that you have the energy you need to deal with, with whatever matters to you. But also, what's really fascinating is, in moments of heightened stress, your brain actually, like, prioritizes sensory information from your heart.

    11. MR

      Hmm.

    12. KM

      It can actually sense your heart more. So even if your heart wasn't pounding faster, you might feel your heart more clearly. And that's a sign that your brain is actually trying to connect you to your heart.

    13. MR

      Hmm.

    14. KM

      To, and almost, like, metaphorically, like, to help you think about what you care about, to think about who and what matters most. So, you know, what I would say is that even just that first symptom, when you feel your heart racing, the first thing you can do is think, "Okay, thank you, body, for trying to give me energy. I have the ability. That means some part of me believes I can do something here. It's not hopeless, or I'm not trapped."

    15. MR

      Hmm.

    16. KM

      "And then also, thank you, brain, for telling me, trying to bring me back to my heart." 'Cause in a moment of stress, there are a lot of things we can do to cope, but one of the best things you can do to cope is to think about who or what matters most to you, what you care about, and in this situation, what's the opportunity that I have to do something that reflects who or what I care about most?

  7. 18:30 – 25:57

    What Are Hope Molecules and How Do They Work?

    1. MR

      Dr. McGonigal, you talked about something called a hope molecule.

    2. KM

      [laughs]

    3. MR

      What is a hope molecule?

    4. KM

      I'm so glad you asked. Uh, this is one of my favorite scientific findings I've ever come across. Um, you know, you have muscles throughout your body, and if you'd asked scientists a couple decades ago, "What are your muscles for?" Uh, they would've said, "Well, to move your bones around," right? To stabilize your skeleton. But now we know that your muscles actually are like a pharmacy, and they are a part of your body that manufactures all of these chemicals that are good for you. Your muscles can manufacture chemicals that fight cancer cells, that boost your immune system, that are good for your heart, that regulate your blood sugar, that help you build strength, and also, they release chemicals that travel to your brain and work to help you recover from stress, that make you more resilient, that boost motivation, again, that are essentially functioning like antidepressant molecules. And they are released from your muscles when you use them. Muscle contraction pushes these hope molecules into your bloodstream, where they can then course through your body and arrive at your brain, which, you know, m- you might actually need those molecules. And again, the thing that I... Like, why I love this, we're so used to hearing scientific findings that are like, "Here's how your body can go wrong. Here's how your body can betray you. Here are all the things you need to worry about." We almost never get the opportunity to experience our own physical being as a resource.

    5. MR

      Mm.

    6. KM

      As something we can trust rather than something we have to fix. Um, and so I love this idea that by going for a walk, by, you know, lifting heavy things around your house, by having a dance party in your living room, whatever you wanna do to use your body, every time you use your body to engage with life, you're actually accessing this pharmacy that wants to give you a little more courage, a little more resilience, a little more hope. This research comes out of the field of exercise science, so sometimes people think, "Well, that means I have to go to the gym," or, "I have to do the most strenuous workout that I can imagine." But that's not how your body and brain think about it. Your body just thinks, "Oh, I'm engaged with life."

    7. MR

      Mm.

    8. KM

      "So I better give all my systems something that's gonna help me thrive." And when you, um, are less active, your body gives you less of this resource. So going from nothing to anything is the biggest step you can take. And then really, I mean, look, we could, we could sit here and wave at each other and be releasing-

    9. MR

      It's true

    10. KM

      ... hope molecules.

    11. MR

      I'm, like, waving right now, and I feel like my body shift. Like, I, I... If you've ever had an experience where you're at a wedding, and it's very interesting because at really great weddings, the, the band just plays a banger out of the gate and you've got somebody pulling people on, but-

    12. KM

      That would be me, by the way.

    13. MR

      Oh.

    14. KM

      I'd be the one being like, "You, come here."

    15. MR

      Yeah, I'm like that too.

    16. KM

      "Let's dance."

    17. MR

      I'm like... It probably surprises no one that I drag my poor husband, Christopher Robbins, who is deep in conversation, right out onto the dance floor. But the, we've also had the experience where you're the one on the edge going, "Do I join?"

    18. KM

      Mm-hmm.

    19. MR

      The second you step on the floor and, like, just move your shoulders, you feel different. And-

    20. KM

      You get pulled into this, like, force field-

    21. MR

      Yes

    22. KM

      ... of connection and joy, and you have to let yourself be pulled in. I always... W- With almost anything that is good for you, and I don't mean in, like, the moral way-

    23. MR

      Yeah

    24. KM

      ... but in, like, you actually will feel better if you do it-

    25. MR

      Uh-huh

    26. KM

      ... almost everyone feels resistance beforehand. You always are gonna feel like you have less energy, or you're always gonna feel more socially anxious and withdrawn, 'cause you haven't done the thing yet that's gonna help you feel le- less self-conscious and connected to others. You haven't done the thing yet that's gonna give you energy or help you feel braver. And so I always tell people, when you have that, that clear signal that says, "I don't know whether I, I can or should join in," or, "I don't have the energy for this," but that is a, it's a real signal, but it's the opposite of what you, how you're interpreting it. That is the signal that you need it, and you need to draw on some kind of commitment to yourself rather than an in-the-moment feeling that says, "I'm ready"-

    27. MR

      Yeah

    28. KM

      ... or, "I want to." And for me-

    29. MR

      Yes

    30. KM

      ... the, what I usually recommend to people-

  8. 25:57 – 33:47

    How to Feel Hope When Life Is Hard

    1. MR

      What is another thing we can do with our brain? So the brain is also a resource-

    2. KM

      Yeah

    3. MR

      ... that can help you plug into signals of joy and hope and meaning.

    4. KM

      You probably know that your brain monitors all sorts of processes in your body. It's measuring your heart rate, your breathing, your blood sugar, and it's trying to make sure everything's good enough to keep you alive. Well, your brain also monitors these other, like, big existential questions like, "Does anybody care about me?" "Are there people I care about?" "Am I alone or am I connected?" "Does what I do matter?" Uh, "Is there beauty in the world?" "Is there a reason to smile?" "Are there things to look forward to?" "Are hu-" Uh, "Are human beings good?" There are all these things that, like, we actually need to know to want to be alive, not to... Our brain is monitoring things in our body that allow us to be alive, and our brain is monitoring things about our life that make us want to be alive. And in a crisis, when you're getting so much information about how hard things are, how bad things could get, and you're starting to feel emotions like, like overwhelm or maybe loneliness, uh, fear, anger, you need signals that say, "There are good things in the world. What you do matters. You aren't alone. There are people you care about who care about you." You need experiences that tell you that as much as you need to eat and as much as you need to breathe. Um, and so even the smallest uplifts, the smallest moments of joy, meaningful pleasure, connection, moments where you feel proud about yourself for something you did, even if it was small. It's like, what's so fascinating is, as a coping resource, the size doesn't matter. You could be in a situation where the suffering is huge, and you experience an uplift that is objectively small, like noticing something beautiful out your window or someone said... thanked you for something that you did.

    5. MR

      I'll give you one. When I had-

    6. KM

      Yes

    7. MR

      ... severe postpartum depression with my daughter, Sawyer, I remember the day I actually got out of bed and took a shower.

    8. KM

      Yeah.

    9. MR

      And then I went back to bed. But that one moment of standing in that hot shower after, like, 11 days in that bed was the smallest moment that made me feel like, okay.

    10. KM

      And sometimes it's the sensory aspect of it, like the hot water on your skin, and maybe there's relief for, like, a moment, or sometimes it's the meaning that you make out of it. Maybe some part of you is like, "I couldn't do this yesterday or the day before-"

    11. MR

      Yes

    12. KM

      ... "and I did it today."

    13. MR

      Yes.

    14. KM

      And it's that meaning that your brain... I mean, the brain-- When I said that, like, one of the resources is that your brain is really good at making meaning, is your brain can have these generous interpretations of small moments or experiences. It's also, like, something you can train yourself to do. That hot shower wouldn't really have provided the same kind of hope if there wasn't some part of you that could put it in the context of your not being able to do it yesterday.

    15. MR

      Right.

    16. KM

      And that, that means something. It means that change is possible, or it means that you are capable. The, the brain has all sorts of processes it can do: visualization, imagination, memory, you know, problem-solving. So let's go with memory, because we know that when you bring to mind a memory, that either makes you feel good or makes you feel good about yourself. So it doesn't necessarily have to be a happy memory, but a memory that means something to you, that it gives you an instant increase in hope.

    17. MR

      Mm.

    18. KM

      Um, it can bring up positive emotions like gratitude or enthusiasm. People have reported using memories when they can't be with people they love in order to remind themselves that there are people who care about them and that there are people who they can depend on. So you can use whatever treasure trove of memories you have. Remember something that makes you smile or makes you laugh or makes you feel close to someone. You can even, like, collect memories that become resources in that way. When I'm feeling, like, really scared and I don't want to do something, but a more important part of me does want to do it-

    19. MR

      Mm

    20. KM

      ... it's just getting the, the other part that wants to be in control or avoid discomfort.

    21. MR

      Right.

    22. KM

      That part is a little too loud right now. Um, I can bring up a memory of when I felt glad that I did this hard thing before, or I can bring up a memory of someone who loves me encouraging me and telling me that I can do it. Um, yeah, so let's make that our brain resource.

    23. MR

      I love that one. I think I, I, I have one that just came to mind. When I feel lonely and I feel, um, discouraged, or I feel like I don't know how I'm gonna get through something- A memory I often come back to, it was 21 years ago, Mass General Brigham Hospital here in Boston. Our son Oakley was five days old and had been medevaced to the hospital, and the docs in the suburban hospital had said, "Pack your bags. We don't know if he's gonna make it." So we went home, packed our bags, and when we got to Mass General Brigham, it was, like, 11:00 at night, and the door swung open to the NICU, and there were my friends Robin and Lisa. And, um, and I'll never forget it. They had both had babies prior in the NICU, and they know how hard it is. And we didn't know if he was even alive at that point. He made it. Um, but I come back to that, and the funny thing is, is that I, I don't even see them as much as I am dying to see them. You know, we're all in our late 50s and kids that have moved out of the house, and everyone seems oddly busier [laughs] at this stage in life. But it does remind me, even though they're not in front of me, of a moment when I wasn't alone, and I did get through it.

    24. KM

      So, you know, it's funny, you're doing what is the next step when psychologists are trying to help people use memories as a resource. This one question that I learned from a psychologist at Taiko Contractor, she asks her clients, "What is a, an important thought or feeling this memory gives you?" And so I was gonna actually ask you, you know, that memory came to mind, what's an important thought or feeling-

    25. MR

      Yeah

    26. KM

      ... that it gives you? And you mentioned that you aren't alone, and that you can get through this.

    27. MR

      Yes.

    28. KM

      And that's-

    29. MR

      And it also makes me want to be the kind of person-

    30. KM

      Yes

  9. 33:47 – 39:14

    How to Retrain Your Brain for Positivity

    1. MR

      Let's talk about the next resource-

    2. KM

      Okay, what was that?

    3. MR

      ... which is your attention.

    4. KM

      Um, attention. So there's way too much going on in any given moment-

    5. MR

      Mm-hmm

    6. KM

      ... for your brain to process. It's always making choices, and your brain is just discarding huge amount, amounts of information about what's happening in this moment, and a lot of people like me have a negative attention bias, where our brain has, like, made a decision. It's just a little more important to be vigilant for things that could go wrong or to pay attention to things that are not right or, you know, maybe it's self-criticism or, or criticism outwards or anxiety. And you can just filter that by making a choice that, in this moment, I want to bring my attention to something that's going right or to, to find a signal that is encouraging. So, um, when I teach classes on joy, I'll often have people practice this by saying, like, "Right now, I want you to look around this room, wherever you are, including your body, for something that reminds you of someone or something you love." You could do that, or you could say, "I'm, right now I'm gonna look around in this moment for evidence that somebody did something to make l- life better for me," or, "I'm gonna look around right now for something that I enjoy, that I'm having a positive response to." You get... It really depends on your personality. You get to choose what you bring your attention to, but there will probably be certain aspects of reality that are true, that if you don't remind yourself to pay attention to them, it's so easy to have a kind of, uh, like, you're just blind to them. It's like, you know, if you're shopping, you're at the grocery store and you're looking for a type of cereal. If you know you're looking for that cereal, everything gets kind of blurry, and then that cereal logo jumps out at you, right?

    7. MR

      Yeah.

    8. KM

      It was already there, but you had to tell your brain, "I'm trying to find that cereal now-"

    9. MR

      Right

    10. KM

      "... so help me."

    11. MR

      I, I am curious-

    12. KM

      Mm-hmm

    13. MR

      ... Dr. McGonigal. In a moment in your life-

    14. KM

      Mm-hmm

    15. MR

      ... where either your personal life has so much external despair-

    16. KM

      Mm-hmm

    17. MR

      ... or the world around you that you're living in has so much external despair-

    18. KM

      Mm-hmm

    19. MR

      ... so there's so much grabbing at your-

    20. KM

      Mm-hmm

    21. MR

      ... attention that's real-

    22. KM

      Mm-hmm

    23. MR

      ... that's there, does your negative bias in your mind become bigger?

    24. KM

      It depends.

    25. MR

      Okay.

    26. KM

      If you're asking me, yes. [laughs]

    27. MR

      Okay.

    28. KM

      That's, I, yeah.

    29. MR

      Well, I mean it, because I would think, like, if all the input's negative-

    30. KM

      Mm-hmm

  10. 39:14 – 41:58

    Your Hobbies Matter More Than You Think

    1. KM

      Yeah.

    2. MR

      Let's go to the next one.

    3. KM

      Okay.

    4. MR

      The next free resource-

    5. KM

      Mm-hmm

    6. MR

      ... is your instincts. Like, how do you use your instincts as a resource to find meaning, purpose, to-

    7. KM

      Yeah

    8. MR

      ... support yourself-

    9. KM

      Okay, I'll give you-

    10. MR

      ... through these challenging moments?

    11. KM

      Here's my favorite instinct-

    12. MR

      Okay

    13. KM

      ... that is deeply underappreciated, 'cause we, we have instincts for courage. We have instincts to help others. Those are lovely, but there is some part of you who loves something beyond reason. I don't know what you're a fan of, but there is something that probably you like more than is easy to explain.

    14. MR

      Fantasy fiction.

    15. KM

      Okay, great.

    16. MR

      Listening, dramatic audio.

    17. KM

      So I think most people have something that they just love beyond reason, and often it's something that is accessible. And when life is difficult, we often think, "I don't have time for this," or, "It's frivolous." Maybe the people in our lives don't really understand why it's so important or helpful to us, and if you just... You should trust what you love. It's a beautiful part of who you are, especially if you've had a relationship with it over time, if it's been there for you, um, that in moments when you need it, to let it be that thing-

    18. MR

      Mm

    19. KM

      ... that keeps you going or lifts you up.

    20. MR

      And I love it if it's a little weird.

    21. KM

      Yeah.

    22. MR

      Like, one of the reasons why I love fantasy fiction is it allows me to escape. I'm living in a different world as I'm listening to this, like, movie acting out in my mind. I also love knitting. I love needlework. I love gardening. I like all those kinds of things, and so your instinct that gets ignited by something that's just for you, that kinda reminds you-

    23. KM

      Mm-hmm

    24. MR

      ... like, what does it do when you're sitting there doing needlepoint during a stressful time?

    25. KM

      You know, even, it's so interesting. If you ask people about the things they love, they will... I play this game with my students where I make a list of activities, and knitting is one of them. Playing board games is one of them. And then researchers have asked people, "Explain why this is so meaningful to you." And people say things like, "In, in a moment when I was in such deep pain and agony, to be able to feel something that wasn't that-"

    26. MR

      Mm.

    27. KM

      "... it was like love." I'm like, "What activity do you think they were describing?" That quote that I just paraphrased, that was about playing board games. This is why I said it's sort of without reason, that there will be activities that just when you do them, you feel better about yourself, better about life. You feel like you have a place to show up. Whatever the reason is, they fulfill really important core human needs, and you shouldn't have to justify that to anybody else. It's so easy to dismiss these things, but if, if they brought in a puppy right now or a kitten-

    28. MR

      Oh, my God. Can we?

    29. KM

      I know. I-

    30. MR

      Tracy, come on.

  11. 41:58 – 44:36

    Why Dogs and Cats Make Us Happier

    1. MR

      Now I'm happier.

    2. KM

      I, I wanna tell you about some research [laughs] too with this. I'm a huge proponent everyone should have an animal in their life. I'm trained as a, an adoption counselor. If you wanna rescue pets, please hit me up.

    3. MR

      Why should you have an animal in your life?

    4. KM

      There's such amazing research. First of all, if you wanna look for the moments in people's lives when they smile or laugh or experience play or experience affectionate touch, right? Core human needs, that of anything you could do in life, you are most likely to experience those things when you are interacting with an animal, and especially your pet. And they've done studies, too, looking at places where people are suffering, like in a hospital or in hospice. You bring in an animal, and these, these things just come out of us. We are still capable of smiling, laughing, playing, and engaging in caregiving and affectionate touch. It's a wonderful opportunity we have as humans. Everyone should adopt a pet.

    5. MR

      I agree. It's so true. And when you bring in the pet, what's interesting is my resigned, frustrated, exhausted, judgy, push-backy self goes right out the window. I'm like, "You're absolutely right. I do feel better when I see my pet." And that's a signal of things that are good. That's a signal of meaning, the signal of, of the good experience of being human, which you said, Dr. McGonigal, is hardwired in you.

    6. KM

      I know, and it's a sign of what's good in you, too. So especially if you're a dog person, dogs... The way that dogs look at you is what we really all crave, right? We want people to kind of see us for who we are and be like, "I'm so glad you're here."

    7. MR

      Mm.

    8. KM

      And dogs are really good at that. Now, I'm a cat person. What cats are really good at, they're good at saying, uh, "I trust you." Like, that's, that's a trust-based relationship. When you get a cat who's willing to trust you, it gives you this sense of like, "Wow, I'm a, I'm a s- special person. Like, I, I created a real bond here." And then when you interact with animals and you feel that way about yourself, you know, it just leaves a sense of that being true outside of just that one relationship.

    9. MR

      Mm.

    10. KM

      Um, and it's... I mean, we're talking about animals now. There are lots of ways we can experience this. What I actually really want people to do is trust the experiences that give them that feeling. So if you're thinking, "I'm not an animal person, but I feel that way when I'm in nature," or, "I feel that way when I'm making music," or, "I feel that way when I'm cooking for people," um, is to, to find the things that make you feel that way about yourself, where, like, who you are is a good thing, and there's a fit between who you are and what's happening

  12. 44:36 – 54:20

    What Happens When You Shut Down

    1. KM

      in that moment.

    2. MR

      Emotions is another one of these free resources that help you tap into the signals of life that you're wired to feel: meaning, purpose-

    3. KM

      Yeah

    4. MR

      ... joy.

    5. KM

      Oh.

    6. MR

      How do you use your emotions?

    7. KM

      Let's see. I mean, one way is to start with where you actually are. I... That, that's where you ask yourself, like, "What emotions are present, and what is that emotion trying to help me reflect on, or what is it calling me to do?" I feel like that's a really advanced skill, though.

    8. MR

      When you shut down emotionally-

    9. KM

      Mm-hmm

    10. MR

      ... what does that mean?

    11. KM

      It is a moment where your body and brain, reading the situation, uh, think that there's actually nothing you can do. And if you feel like you are unsafe, don't have a lot of power, don't have a lot of control or options, your body and brain will try, as an act of kindness, to make you less present for what's happening.

    12. MR

      Mm.

    13. KM

      And so you can start to shut down. You can start to be less... You know, like in some, some stress responses, it heightens all your senses because those stress responses want you to fight or flee or help someone or, like, you know, rise to the challenge. But some stress responses j- are just trying to take care of you in a difficult moment and make it less awful to be in. And in some situations, it's helpful, but a lot of us who have had experiences where it was helpful at the time, it can become a kind of chronic way to relate to life-

    14. MR

      Yeah

    15. KM

      ... where anytime things get difficult, the body and brain is like, "Let's go into that place where it can't, can't... we can't feel it as much." And, uh, often, you know, the, the coping strategies, I had to learn that someone who, who experiences this kind of withdrawal or shutdown, you have to, um, start to really cultivate these other stress responses, these other stress resources that are more about engaging with life.

    16. MR

      How do you do that?

    17. KM

      There's two types of strategies. One is the more global, like what you do in your life to train yourself, and then there's in the moment.

    18. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    19. KM

      I really believe that what you need to do is train for these moments.

    20. MR

      Okay.

    21. KM

      So, I mean, I could tell you something to do, but the number one thing I would tell you to do is you need to go in your mind to the memory of the thing you were able to do when you were training.

    22. MR

      Oh, got it. Okay.

    23. KM

      So let me give you an example.

    24. MR

      Yes.

    25. KM

      You know, you thanked me for getting on a plane to get out here, and I mentioned I hate flying. I've had huge fear of flying my entire life, to the point where, you know, I refuse to fly, have panic attacks even thinking about booking an airline ticket. I would, like, dissociate or hope to dissociate even when I had to think about giving up my bodily autonomy in that way and being on an airplane.

    26. MR

      It felt unsafe.

    27. KM

      Yeah. So here's how I trained when I decided I wanted to be able to fly. I thought, "How do I feel when I'm on a plane?" Which is completely out of control. I'm having a panic attack, so my heart is racing. I'm sweating. All I want is to get out of this space. I want the freedom to leave, and I'm trapped, and I can't.

    28. MR

      Mm.

    29. KM

      Um, and I thought, "Where have I ever felt like that that's not on a plane?" 'Cause I'm not ready to get on a plane. And I remembered going to a spin class, an indoor cycling class, and hating it and feeling like I... When I was on that bike, I just wanted to get off the bike. I wanted to get out of the sweaty room with stale air. My heart was pounding, and I thought, "I'm gonna go back, and I'm gonna go to that spin class, and I'm gonna practice staying on the bike and feeling all the things that I feel on an airplane. And in that moment, I'm gonna tell myself I'm doing this because I wanna choose a life where I can get on planes. As much as I try to protect myself, I can't protect myself from things I don't want to experience. It... Actually, I'm suffering just as much by avoiding it as I ever would be by doing it. And so I'm gonna ex- I'm gonna practice this kind of..." For me, it was like a, just the physical courage to stay put-

    30. MR

      Mm

  13. 54:20 – 57:54

    3 Simple Ways to Create More Hope

    1. KM

      And also, you can, since we're talking about emotions here, so if you're feeling hopelessness, you can also use your capacity for hope as a resource.

    2. MR

      Tell me how.

    3. KM

      And there's great... You know, like, I love global research because I always feel like sometimes studies will, like, look at one small sample, and who knows if this is really a human thing or just, like, a thing for that group. So there's a, a study called the, um, the, is it The Hope Project? Um, where they ask people all over the world, "What is, what is a source of hope for you when life is hard?"

    4. MR

      Mm.

    5. KM

      And the, there were very common themes, but one of the biggest sources of hope, two of the biggest sources of hope were doing something to help someone else. Actually, let me give you three. Doing something to help someone else. Being thanked by someone you helped or seeing somebody else do something to help someone. Now, look, all of those are possible [laughs] when you're feeling hopeless. Um, I always say one of the, the most underappreciated acts of kindness you can do, or acts of courage, or joy, or hope, is to let somebody else help you. Because in the moment you let someone help you, you receiving, receiving the support of someone is another source of hope. But then that person feels better, they feel more hopeful. You have an opportunity to thank them for helping you. That's a huge source of hope, and you make hope possible for you and for the person who helped you. And then if you can help someone else out, it's just another way into that cycle.

    6. MR

      Well, and I think it's important to be reminded, as you're listening or watching this, that your brain is wired to pick up signals that you're doing this.

    7. KM

      Yeah.

    8. MR

      Because when your brain sees you doing-

    9. KM

      Yeah

    10. MR

      ... these acts of good-

    11. KM

      Yeah

    12. MR

      ... or appreciating them or allowing other people to help you-

    13. KM

      Mm-hmm

    14. MR

      ... it reminds you that you're good.

    15. KM

      Yeah.

    16. MR

      It reminds you that life is worth living.

    17. KM

      Mm-hmm.

    18. MR

      It's this kind of l- through line-

    19. KM

      Mm-hmm

    20. MR

      ... that gets you to use these resources in you-

    21. KM

      Mm

    22. MR

      ... to get you through this.

    23. KM

      Yeah.

    24. MR

      And you, by doing this, you're making a choice, and that's another one of these free resources-

    25. KM

      Yes

    26. MR

      ... the choices you make. So let's give an example of how to use the power of a choice.

    27. KM

      Yeah. I think, you know, there are certain, um, I often talk about acts of joy.

    28. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    29. KM

      There are things you do that make joy possible for yourself or for others, and by that, I really mean you can do things that make people feel connected or less alone or yourself. You can create a sense of meaning. You can create a moment where people have something to laugh about. And so y- you know, a simple version could be, um, "I'm gonna do something to put something beautiful in the world-

    30. MR

      Hmm

  14. 57:54 – 1:02:14

    Asking for Help Makes You Stronger

    1. MR

      it. And the final free resource is your relationships. How would you recommend that you think about the relationships in your life as a resource to help you through the very challenging moments? Because I, I've been struck by the number of people that write in and say they don't have anybody.

    2. KM

      Yeah.

    3. MR

      And I don't know that that's true. It may feel like it's true.

    4. KM

      It often feels like it's true. You know, when I think about using relationships as a resource, they're really... Like, there's two directions. So you're pointing to a willingness to ask for help or let people know what's going on. That's very difficult for me. I mean, I was really brought up to believe that you are not supposed to be a burden. So sometimes, um, I think one of the ways you use your relationships as resources is you actually invite the possibility that people in your life want to be there for you and that it actually is, it's not just a gift to yourself, but it's a gift to other people. And if you feel like you don't have close friends or family that you can rely on, it's amazing, there are people who might be around you who've been through something similar and are waiting to turn that horrible experience into a source of meaning for themselves. I see this happen all the time. I teach at a community center. I see people who were strangers. Suddenly, when one person is honest and says, "I'm going through grief," "I'm going through cancer treatment," "I'm going through a divorce," somebody else who's been through that, who was a stranger, suddenly becomes somebody who wants to show up for that person with moral support, advice, resources. And so part of it is maybe have the idea that there are people who, if you just start being more transparent about what you're going through, there are people who wanna be there for you because they care about you, but also, there are gonna be people who it makes their life more meaningful and easier to deal with it because they're able to turn that into an opportunity-

    5. MR

      Hmm

    6. KM

      ... to connect with or help you.

    7. MR

      I think it's very common to not wanna feel like you're burdening somebody else.

    8. KM

      Yeah.

    9. MR

      And I remember, um, my dad had a health incident a couple years ago, and when they finally figured out what it was, which was an intact brain aneurysm that was gonna require him to have a major surgery at UMich, and my parents had been dealing with this for a month before they told me and my brother, and I remember them saying, "We didn't wanna worry you." And I was actually mad.

    10. KM

      Yeah.

    11. MR

      Because I felt like you, by wanting to protect me, denied me the opportunity to love you and support you through this.

    12. KM

      Yeah.

    13. MR

      And I understand both sides of it, but because I've always been the kind of person that-

    14. KM

      Mm-hmm

    15. MR

      ... you know, doesn't wanna ask for help, doesn't wanna burden people, but when I really experience this feeling of, "Wait, but I didn't get to support you."

    16. KM

      Yeah.

    17. MR

      "I love you."

    18. KM

      Yeah.

    19. MR

      Like, like, "I want the opportunity to do that for you." It makes me, like, upset that you went through that alone and felt like- Uh, like, uh, it was a burden to tell me. Like-

    20. KM

      Yeah

    21. MR

      ... it, it's generous in my opinion to share with people what you're going through-

    22. KM

      Yeah

    23. MR

      ... and to really allow them in.

    24. KM

      Yeah. It's interesting. There's the sense of not wanting to be a burden when things are bad, and then people also have a fear of not wanting to brag when things are going well, and they're like two sides of the same coin. Just like you were saying, you can deprive someone of the opportunity to be there for you in your worst moments, and so one of the ways we use our relationships as a resource, uh, for all of us... I mean, see, if you're gonna use your relationships as a resource, you really need to be in that mindset of interdependence. Because it's not just for you, it's for the relationship.

    25. MR

      Mm.

    26. KM

      Your letting people be there for you strengthens the relationship, and also you are helping the person you're in a relationship with. So if you're gonna try to use your relationships as a resource, you really gotta get into that mindset, that actually it's bigger than you, and that can make it easier to ask for help. But also, it can make it easier to recognize that people wanna be there for you in your good moments too.

  15. 1:02:14 – 1:08:42

    What to Do When You Feel Envious

    1. MR

      Well, I wanna read to you from your bestselling book, Joy Is a Risk Worth Taking. I am on chapter seven, and this is page 167, "People don't wanna be alone in their happiness."

    2. KM

      Yes.

    3. MR

      And you write about this. "Someone else's happiness can make you genuinely happy, and the person you are happy for can receive your joy as evidence that you care about them. Importantly, humans crave company in their best moments as much as we need comfort in our worst moments. When something positive happens, people don't wanna be alone in their joy. They want others to celebrate with them. Your ability to support others in this way is as important as your ability to offer compassion to somebody who is struggling. Taking joy in other people's happiness is also a rich source of pleasure, meaning, and connection for you."

    4. KM

      Yes.

    5. MR

      How do you do that?

    6. KM

      Um-

    7. MR

      Especially when you're struggling.

    8. KM

      When people ask me, "What's the single most important thing I could do if I want more joy in my life?" I give them a mantra, "Meet joy with joy." You have to actually treat other people's joy like a signal that is your opportunity to connect with them and strengthen that relationship. So it really kind of starts with a goal, right? It, taking joy in other people's happiness is about strengthening relationships and letting other people know that they matter, that their happiness matters, and that you care about them.

    9. MR

      How do you do that if you're miserable? Like, how do you do that if you're struggling?

    10. KM

      Yeah.

    11. MR

      Or your kid is the one struggling, and it is falling behind in life or, like, not thriving. They're not going to prom. They're not graduating. Like, how do you-

    12. KM

      Yeah

    13. MR

      ... do that, and what does it give back to you?

    14. KM

      So you're talking, like, in a situation where your kid is struggling, and, like, a friend-

    15. MR

      Or you're struggling and a friend is thriving. Like, I've spent a decade of my life not being happy for other people because I was not happy in my life, and I felt like their happiness just reminded me of how miserable I was.

    16. KM

      That's, that's because it's activating envy, right?

    17. MR

      [laughs]

    18. KM

      Which is another emotion that has a function that often goes, goes awry, right? It, it's meant to remind you of what you really want.

    19. MR

      Mm.

    20. KM

      But too often, it triggers these feelings of comparison-

    21. MR

      Yes

    22. KM

      ... or sense like I'm, I'm f- falling behind in life, and a real, like, there's a real sadness, the sadness of envy. Like, why does this person have this experience, and why can't I?

    23. MR

      Correct.

    24. KM

      I want this. It can even be grief if you think it's not possible for you.

    25. MR

      Yeah.

    26. KM

      I mean, you went to the really hard place, [laughs] so.

    27. MR

      I always do.

    28. KM

      The... In those moments, if it's, if it's a friend or a family member who's experiencing something that you long for and you don't have-

    29. MR

      It could be I can't get pregnant and my friend-

    30. KM

      Yeah

  16. 1:08:42 – 1:12:14

    How to Find Joy When Life Is Hard

    1. MR

      most important thing?

    2. KM

      I think the most important thing you can take away is that joy is not selfish, that joy is the profound act of care for yourself and collective care. It is a way of supporting yourself through hard times. It is absolutely possible, even when life is hard, and that this capacity for joy that you have, even if it feels diminished, is still in you.

    3. MR

      What are your parting words?

    4. KM

      Mm. One of my most meaningful memories as a student was this exercise where the teacher had everyone in the room think about what they n- really needed to hear, what they really hoped was true, they wanted to believe, and then she just simply said it back to that person. And so I think, when I think about what people have shared with me, the, the fears that they have, I just wanna say some things that I know are true, that maybe are hard for you to feel as true, but some part of you also knows they're true. You are capable of joy, and you deserve joy. That your joy can be a source of joy to others. That you are, that your existence in this world is a good thing and a source of joy.

    5. MR

      Dr. McGonigal, your existence in this world-

    6. KM

      [laughs]

    7. MR

      ... is a source of joy. Thank you, thank you, thank you for your research, for your work, for getting on a plane-

    8. KM

      [laughs]

    9. MR

      ... for pouring into us, and for teaching us how to tap into this wiring and these resources inside of us to experience more joy in our life. And I also wanna say thank you. Thank you to you for making the time to devour this episode. I hope that's what you did with it. I hope it hit you in your DNA, and then you send this to everybody in your life that you care about. This was so remarkable. I'm so joyful about it, and here's why. There is no doubt in my mind that everything that you just learned will make your life better and more meaningful, and it will give you a lifeline to help yourself through the very challenging and difficult times. And I'm excited for you to have this as a resource to come back to and to be reminded of the power that you have inside of yourself to live a beautiful life, despite how it may feel right now. And in case nobody else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you, as your friend, that I love you and I believe in you. You are capable of joy, and you can create a better life. And the tools that you learned today will help you do that, starting today, in the day-to-day moments, and that's where you build a life. All righty. I will see you in the very next episode. I'm gonna welcome you in the moment you hit play. All righty, and thank you for watching all the way to the end here on YouTube. I love being here with you. Thank you for being a subscriber. It's the single best way you can say thank you to me and the team and all these extraordinary experts. And I know you wanna watch another episode of The Mel Robbins Podcast. You're gonna love this one, and I will welcome you in the moment you hit play.

Episode duration: 1:12:19

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