The Mel Robbins PodcastThe Power of Reinvention: Switching Things Up at Any Age
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
55 min read · 10,848 words- 0:00 – 2:18
Meet the Guest
- MRMel Robbins
Today, on The Mel Robbins Podcast, the one and only Ina Garten is here. You know her as the Barefoot Contessa. She's spent four decades teaching millions of us how to cook.
- IGIna Garten
Do what you think is fun. If it's fun, you'll be really good at it.
- MRMel Robbins
But today, you're getting the secret recipe to her success and reinvention.
- IGIna Garten
This is what I wanna do, and if somebody wants to try and stop me, knock yourself out. It's not gonna happen. [upbeat music]
- MRMel Robbins
[upbeat music] It is such an honor to meet you.
- IGIna Garten
It's so nice to meet you, too.
- MRMel Robbins
I have cooked so many of your recipes.
- IGIna Garten
Have you? How wonderful.
- MRMel Robbins
Have I?
- IGIna Garten
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, my gosh. Your books are dog-eared and bind-broken-
- IGIna Garten
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
... and stained as every good cookbook should be.
- IGIna Garten
I love when I see a cookbook that l- that looks like it's been dipped in vinaigrette. [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- IGIna Garten
Then I know it's been used. [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
It has definitely been used. Um, I'm so excited to have a chance to sit down with you because you are such a great storyteller. You have a remarkable life, and I also know, whether you think this or not, you have a lot of wisdom to share. And s-
- IGIna Garten
Oh, I hope so. Thank you.
- MRMel Robbins
For sure.
- IGIna Garten
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
For sure.
- IGIna Garten
Thanks, Mel.
- MRMel Robbins
I'd love to start by just asking you, if the person takes everything to heart that we're about to talk about, what might change about life?
- IGIna Garten
I find that the, the, the really scary things I've done have been the making of my life.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- IGIna Garten
And so it's really worth doing. Because otherwise, I, I think we all, um, follow where our lives go, but we don't make deliberate decisions. And when you make a deliberate decision, it's in, in the furtherance of what you love to do, and it's really important to do. Otherwise, you're not in control, and I think having some agency with your life is so important.
- MRMel Robbins
I agree with you, and there was something about what you just said that I wanna make sure I highlight because already you're dropping takeaways. And that is, you said, "It's being deliberate in furtherance-
- IGIna Garten
Mm-hmm
- MRMel Robbins
... of what you love doing."
- IGIna Garten
Mm-hmm.
- 2:18 – 8:52
How to Know When to Change Careers
- MRMel Robbins
And that brings me to kinda where the story begins, at least in your blockbuster bestseller, Be Ready When the Luck Happens. Your memoir is fantastic, by the way.
- IGIna Garten
Thank you, Mel. Thank you.
- MRMel Robbins
My mother-in-law bought it for me 'cause she knows that I'm such an enormous fan of yours.
- IGIna Garten
Aw. [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
And I read it furiously one rainy afternoon in Vermont, and I love where the story in the memoir begins because you're 30 years old, and never in a million years would I have thought you worked for the Office of Management and Budget at the White House.
- IGIna Garten
In Nuclear Energy Policy. Don't forget that. [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
Nuclear Energy-
- IGIna Garten
Who was that? [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
What? I don't know. You tell me. [laughs]
- IGIna Garten
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
I have no idea what Nuclear Energy Policy is. And on page four, you write, "There has to be something more fun than this. The only good thing about having a low threshold for boredom is that I've always been willing to take crazy risks just to get out of that miserable state. In my bureaucratic job, I was just part of the larger process, but I wanted to be the process, to do my own thing, either in real estate or in the food business and, for better or for worse, to make my own decisions and mistakes." I'd love for you to put us right at that scene where you're 30 years old and you're kinda bored with your job because I think we've all had that moment, but what you do in that moment is what determines your life.
- IGIna Garten
Well, I was sitting in my office and I, I had been at Office of Management and Budget, um, for four years at that point, and I was feeling like I work really hard. Sometimes we'd pull all-nighters to make sure what the president needed for his budget or for some legislation was taken care of. But literally, I felt like nothing had happened and nothing changed. And so why am I working so hard at something where nothing's happening? And that was in the 1970s. And so I was reading the news- the New York Times, and I, I just happened, for the first time in my life, see the business opportunity section where people advertise, like, cl- dry cleaners and head shops and-
- MRMel Robbins
Uh-huh
- IGIna Garten
... coffee shops. And, um, and I, I saw this small ad for a business for sale, and it was a specialty food store in a place I'd never been. And I thought, "God, that sounds like fun." And-
- MRMel Robbins
That was the moment?
- IGIna Garten
That was the moment, yeah. I thought, "This just, that just sounds like more fun than what I'm doing here."
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- IGIna Garten
And so I went home that night and I said to Jeffrey, "I just really... My, uh, my job's boring. It's not... I don't feel like I do anything. I just, I work really hard." You have a sense that what you're doing is going to the president, so it's n- not... it doesn't just evaporate into the, into the air, but nothing really happens, and I want something to happen. And I'm never gonna be the head of this organization. They are never gonna choose a girl to be the head of OMB. So what am I doing here? And he said to me, the most important thing, he said, "Do what you think is fun. If it's fun, you'll be really good at it." And I thought that's a really, really important thing to remember, that whatever you do without thinking about it, just because you love doing it. What did you do when you were 10? And, and what did you think was fun organizing the kids in the neighborhood? Do that, because it's before we had all those shoulds.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- IGIna Garten
I should be a lawyer. I should be a doctor. This is what I just feel like doing. And so I said, "Well, I saw this ad for a business for sale and this food store. I've never been in the food business." And he said, "Let's go look, take a look at it."
- MRMel Robbins
Wow
- IGIna Garten
And only recently did he tell me he thought he was humoring me.
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- IGIna Garten
He thought, "Oh, let's just go look at it. This is never gonna happen." [laughs] And then, that, the next weekend, we, we drove up to Westhampton.
- MRMel Robbins
And you'd never been there?
- IGIna Garten
Never been to Westhampton before. It was April, and Westhampton in April, it's a beach town.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- IGIna Garten
There's nothing going on. I mean, there's, like, tumbleweed down the middle of the street.
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- IGIna Garten
And there was this tiny little store. It was 400 square feet, and it was open. And I walked in, and they were baking chocolate chip cookies. And I thought, "Okay, this is where I wanna be. I don't know anything about it, but I'm gonna figure it out."
- 8:52 – 16:33
How to Start Before You Feel Ready
- MRMel Robbins
I, I, I'm having a hard time-
- IGIna Garten
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
... picturing you at the Office of Management and Budget because ever since I've followed you, I've seen you cooking.
- IGIna Garten
Uh-huh.
- MRMel Robbins
And so I never knew this version of you. I've only known the Barefoot Contessa version of you.
- IGIna Garten
There's not much difference. I think cooking is science. And when I was a kid, I was a science nerd. I loved science. And I think the difference between nuclear energy policy and, um, having a specialty food store is not that big a difference because they're all experimentation.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- IGIna Garten
It's all, um, if you're, if you study science, you're testing things. Um, if you're cooking, you're testing things, but instead of ending up with, like, gibberellic acid, you end up with roast chicken. [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- IGIna Garten
So which would you rather have? [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
Definitely the roast chicken. Uh, and a lot of your recipes with roast chicken have a little vinegar in 'em, so that has a little acid.
- IGIna Garten
That's exactly right. [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
Yes. I actually am a big fan of your cooking. Um, and there was another thing that you just said, and that is that a lot of us opt out because we think what we're doing now doesn't qualify us for what we would like to be doing. And if you're willing to walk toward the thing that you would have fun at, you can figure it out, and you will quickly realize that everything that you've ever done leads you somewhere and prepares you in ways you don't even realize.
- IGIna Garten
I actually didn't know that until I wrote the memoir. I actually thought everything I did that was outrageous and totally different, um, was something completely new. And only when I wrote the memoir did I realize that when I was in Washington, because I didn't find my job that exciting, I taught myself how to cook. I would buy old houses and renovate them and sell them. So I'd go to the bank and negotiate loans. I would work on renovations. I taught myself how to do that. I went to business school at night when I was at, when I was working at the White House. I mean, I did a lot of things for the fun of it. And then when I looked back, I thought I knew nothing. But in fact, I knew more than I gave myself credit for, and it took until 2024 f- for me to actually realize that.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow. It helped-
- IGIna Garten
That it was-
- MRMel Robbins
... you connect the dots
- IGIna Garten
... it, it connected the dots, and it also made me realize that what I was doing with the store was everything that I love to do. It was, um, borrowing money and, and investing. It was, um, building things, building a new store. It was cooking. It was the first time that my job actually included everything that I love to do.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, it wasn't easy, though. So I would love to go from that moment where you walked in and you're like, "Oh, oh my gosh," to what it was actually like, 'cause you then bought it.
- IGIna Garten
I did buy it. [laughs] And I, I did one thing that was smart. I bought it, but I made a deal with the seller that she would stay for a month and teach me what I need to know 'cause I didn't know anything. I didn't know how to cash out a register. I didn't know how to slice smoked salmon. I could bake 12 brownies for my friends, but I didn't know how to bake 1,000 brownies.
- MRMel Robbins
Was there any moment where You had, like, a pit in your stomach, and you realized, "What have I done?"
- IGIna Garten
I think after the first week I said to Jeffrey, "This is the stupidest thing I've ever done in my life." [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
Well, one of my favorite stories that I think will shock the person listening is, again, you're living in Washington, DC. You have bought this storefront that is four or five hours away in a summer community that you've never been to.
- IGIna Garten
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
And so you guys get a rental, and even that doesn't go according to plan.
- IGIna Garten
[laughs] That was crazy. Um, so we, we decided that we needed to have a h- yeah, I needed a place to live while I'm there, and Jeffrey was gonna come on the weekends.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- IGIna Garten
So, um, we rented a house, and then when I went to the house right before Memorial Day to move in, there was a family living there. [laughs] I was like, "Excuse me, this is my rental." They said, "No, it's ours." And it turns out that the owner of the house had rented it twice.
- MRMel Robbins
[gasps]
- IGIna Garten
And, you know, it, the weekend before Memorial Day, you can't find a rental anywhere. So we'd actually decided, I said to them, [laughs] "Okay, well, I'm not gonna be here very much 'cause I'm running a specialty food store, and my husband lives in Washington, so maybe we could just rent it together." So I moved my stuff into one of the bedrooms and went to the store, and we rented that house together, and they were absolutely adorable, lovely people.
- 16:33 – 19:17
How to Work Through Fear
- MRMel Robbins
started. You know, I've also heard you talk about the fact that when you take on new challenges, you're willing to do it working scared.
- IGIna Garten
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
What does that mean?
- IGIna Garten
I think that we stop ourselves because we think, you know, if you're standing on the side of the pond and you're trying to decide whether you should jump in the pond, there might be fish in there, it might be cold, it might be really deep. You don't know what you're getting into-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- IGIna Garten
... and you can't decide what to do when you're standing on the side of the pond. You gotta jump in the pond, splash around, see what it is, and figure out what to do about it. And maybe while you're in that pond, you can look over there and go, "Oh, that's actually a really interesting place to go," that you would never have seen if you weren't in the pond.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- IGIna Garten
So I think you just, I, I feel like you, you just need to jump in the pond. We talk ourselves out of so many things because we think, "Well, I can't possibly know everything."
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- IGIna Garten
"And what am I gonna do if something unexpected comes along?" You know what? You'll figure it out. And I actually came across an expression that I just adore a- that's really changed me. It was from J.P. Morgan. So a friend of mine told me this. "Go as far as you can see, and when you get there, you'll be able to see farther."
- MRMel Robbins
[gasps]
- IGIna Garten
You don't need to know the answer to every question that you have. You just need to figure out as far as you can see, make the decisions that are the best decisions, and when you get there, you'll be able to see more.
- MRMel Robbins
I love that
- IGIna Garten
Isn't that a great expression?
- MRMel Robbins
It's beautiful. And it's so true
- IGIna Garten
Because you don't need to know where you're going. You just need to know what you're gonna do today and tomorrow.
- MRMel Robbins
That's true. And then as you move forward, what you see changes.
- IGIna Garten
Changes, yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
You don't ha- 'cause you, we... I, I've wasted decades of my life standing there thinking, "Okay, I hate being a lawyer. What's my calling?" You don't need to know.
- IGIna Garten
You don't need to know, yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
You just need to know that in those moments where you're sitting there at a budget desk doing-
- IGIna Garten
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
... nuclear policy, or you're commuting to a, a big law firm and you feel the just stomach clenching as you go into the office building, that that's a sign that you don't need to know the bigger picture.
- IGIna Garten
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
You need to know that this is not for you anymore.
- IGIna Garten
And actually, one of the things I find is I never figure out where I'm going. I just figure out what I'm gonna do today. I do the best job I can, and before I, I'm done for the day, I figure out what I'm gonna do tomorrow. I start the day with purpose.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- IGIna Garten
I don't start the day thinking, "Okay, what should I do today?" I start the day with purpose, and I end the day with what I'm gonna do the next day, and see where it goes. And it's, I think it's so much better in the long run to be open to whatever comes along, rather than say, "I wanna get from here to being a lawyer."
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- IGIna Garten
'Cause you, you might miss something along the way that would've been more interesting.
- 19:17 – 22:57
How to Build a Career You Love
- MRMel Robbins
You have this other saying that I absolutely love. "If it's not fun, it's not done."
- IGIna Garten
[laughs] I think I borrowed that from somebody. I don't know who, but it's true. And it doesn't mean everything in my life is fun. It just means it's either fun on its, on its own, or it's in the furtherance of fun.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- IGIna Garten
So, like, I think-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm
- IGIna Garten
... in, in the food business, um, I love the creativity of it, and I love the challenge of it, but if you don't take care of business, you don't get to do the fun stuff.
- MRMel Robbins
That's true.
- IGIna Garten
So I think that the... I find the business interesting and challenging, but it's all in the furtherance of being able to do something creative and fun.
- MRMel Robbins
Uh, that's very important. I wanna make sure I put a highlighter on that, because if you reframe the things you hate doing as, "I ha- am doing this because it's in furtherance-"
- IGIna Garten
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... of the thing I love doing," now you've just given meaning to the things you hate doing. We do that here all the time, actually. You're making me think about a meeting we had this morning, where we had an episode dropping this morning, and at 7:53 in the morning, we were arguing over this, like, super dumb detail on social media about whether or not the video needed a thumbnail uploaded or embedded and the title, and we're just like, "Da, da, da." And it was not fun, but it's in furtherance-
- IGIna Garten
In furtherance of it.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes
- IGIna Garten
Mm-hmm
- MRMel Robbins
... of the impact we wanna make, and I love that reframing.
- IGIna Garten
Thank you.
- MRMel Robbins
You're a genius.
- IGIna Garten
Oh, I'm just so a- [laughs] Aren't I, aren't I amazing? [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
You are. Like, you, you, you are amazing.
- IGIna Garten
Thank you.
- MRMel Robbins
And it's not just the recipes that you're cooking up. You're giving us a f- a recipe for a different mindset and a different approach that opens up possibility in your life.
- IGIna Garten
I think, too, as a woman, I think things have changed since I was at, in the government, but I don't think it's changed completely.
- MRMel Robbins
Uh-uh.
- IGIna Garten
And I decided that, I s- I said earlier that somebody was never gonna choose me, probably a man, was never gonna choose me to be the head of OMB, which, which was, why bother working so hard for something that I'm never gonna succeed at? And I thought, "I need a, an alternate track that's mine-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- IGIna Garten
... where the only thing that will limit me is my own talent and my own drive." And, um, I think I've done that, which is really great.
- MRMel Robbins
You've definitely done that, and the piece not to miss as you're listening is recognizing that ultimately, it's on you.
- IGIna Garten
It's on you.
- MRMel Robbins
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- 22:57 – 30:46
What to Do When Something Isn’t Working
- MRMel Robbins
You have this amazing story that I love, that you write about in this incredible memoir, Be Ready When the Luck Happens, about your gold necklace.
- IGIna Garten
Oh, my gold necklace. I still have it. [laughs] When I was first running the store, the first summer, um, I was 30 years old, and the woman who sold it to me was teaching me how to run the store, and customers would come in, and they'd go, "Do this, get me that, da, da, da," and they were, they're on my case all the time. And I was like, "I own this store. Why are they treating me like this?" I didn't like that they treated my employees like that either. But Diana said to me, she said, "You need to wear some jewelry, and they'll know that you own this store." So I walked across the street to a jewelry store, and I bought what I thought was the gaudiest, biggest gold necklace I've ever seen in my life.
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- IGIna Garten
And I put it on, and I walked into the store, and people said, "Oh, is this your store?" I thought it was so interesting to non-verbally change my relationship with the customers.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- IGIna Garten
We can change the conversation by changing ourselves.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- IGIna Garten
We don't always have to change the other person, and that, that's what happened with the, with the customers. I wanted the- change the conversation with them, and I changed something I did.
- MRMel Robbins
Ah.
- IGIna Garten
And it was very effective.
- MRMel Robbins
There was another thing that you noticed because- You know, you're jumping in the pond and splashing around. And in the beginning, you started making all kinds of fancy food, and it didn't sell, and it gave you this epiphany about what people actually wanted Which has totally informed all of my cookbooks. Yes. So in the beginning, I thought it was a specialty food store, it was a fancy area, it was The Hamptons, and I'm gonna make really fancy food. So I started making, um, veal with morels, and I was making... I, I remember taking a huge platter and putting... I wanted to put roast chicken on it. It was a big wide platter, fresh herbs all over the place, and it didn't sell. And I was like, "What am I doing wrong?" And I took that big platter, and I ca- went back in the kitchen, and I took the, the chickens off the big, gorgeous platter with the fr- fabulous fresh herbs and put them in little red and white check, um, you know, those, like those- Oh, like the picnic basket things? Looks like you- Well, like, like you- Lobster roll ... like you would get, um, french fries in. Uh-huh. And I just lined them up on the, on the counter, and they sold in 10 minutes. And I thought, "Oh, people have elegant taste, but they don't want fancy food at home. They wanna go out for, for something fancy, but at home, they want roast chicken. They want lobster salad. They want, like, simple, earthy things." Yeah. Just by experimenting. That's my scientific background. I would put out five things and see which, which one people wanted, and you never know what it is, but you have to just keep trying. I'll tell, I'll tell you a story. When I moved to, um, East Hampton, I got these... I had them made, actually, these huge tables. I wanted the pastry section to be on tables like a, like a Viennese dessert table. Mm. It wasn't behind refrigerated glass. It was out- Yeah ... and it was open. And there, I had the, the cabinet maker put drawers in the front of those, uh, tables so that I could put things in while people are waiting to have their chocolate cake boxed up. They could, um, they're just standing there with nothing to do. I thought, "Oh, it's a great opportunity to merchandise something to them." So I put in little packages of cookies. They didn't sell. I put in, um, uh, packages of muffins. They didn't sell. I- every week, I'd put in something else to see what would sell, and, uh, none, none of it sold. I put in coffee. It didn't sell. And then one time, I ordered a lot of granola, and it just flew out of the store. And I thought, "Isn't that interesting? I would never have chosen granola as being the thing that would sell there." But I think when people are buying something, um, kind of a little decadent like a chocolate cake, they say, "Oh, I'll have something healthy like granola." [laughs] And for the rest of the time that I had the store, we had granola in those, in those drawers. But it's, it's all a science experiment, and you never know what the answer's gonna be. If you decide in advance that you think you know what the answer is, you're wrong. I've got a very funny story to tell you, actually, about this same thing and experimenting. So, um, I, I, I... It's funny. I feel a little, like, shy about telling you this story. [laughs] But I, [laughs] I was a, a public defender in New York City, uh, after law school, and I loved that job. And then my husband, um, I blame everything on poor Chris Robbins. [laughs] Uh, my husband gets into business school up here in Boston and also gets a job while he's going to business school, so I have to leave this job I love, and the only job I could find was working for a large law firm, which I hated, the exact opposite of being a public defender in New York City. And so I started thinking to myself, "I hate this job, but I need the money. Um, what have I always thought I wanted to do?" And I was such a fan of yours, and in particular, I loved the way you displayed things- Oh, thank you ... and the different tiered... Like, it just looked so- Were you in the store? ... gorgeous. No, I only saw the photos- Oh ... for crying out loud. Wow. And so I was an admirer from afar, and I thought, "You know what I'm gonna do? I've always wanted to own a bakery. I've always wanted to own a bakery like Barefoot Contessa because- Mel ... it looks so gorgeous." What an incredible story. Now, wait till you hear this. So I get a job on the weekends- Where? ... working at a bakery outside of Boston. Now, it's, it wasn't a... It didn't last long because let me tell you something. [laughs] This is why it's important to jump in. This is why it's important to notice what you're drawn toward. This is why it's important to experiment. So I decide I'm gonna get a job working at a bakery on the weekends, and that way, I can kinda learn the business behind the scenes and experiment. Let me tell you, it took exactly six hours- [laughs] ... on my first Saturday, showing up at 6:00 in the morning, making carrot muffins, filling sugar dispensers, filling napkins, wiping counters down, taking out garbage bags that weighed 30 pounds 'cause people put coffee in, that made me realize, "I like this." [laughs] I don't, I, I, I do not have what it takes to own a bakery. Here's the epiphany because this relates back to what you were saying. You don't have to see all the way. Mm-hmm. Go as far as you can see, and all I could see is I think maybe I want a bakery 'cause I'm so inspired by what Barefoot Contessa looks like. Isn't that interesting? And then I went that far, and I realized, "Wait, I don't actually want to own a bakery and run one. I wanna have control over my life and community so that when I walk into Barefoot Contessa, I have a little bit of time to sit down and have a cup of coffee- Mm-hmm ... and the owner and I know each other." It was really meant for me, but it had a different lesson in it. How old were you? Oh my gosh, this would've been, I don't know, probably 25 years ago. Yeah, I, I think- Or 30 ... I think our, our 20s- Yeah ... are for experimenting. Yeah. Unless you're Itzhak Perlman and you know you're always gonna be a violinist or Taylor Swift and you always know you're gonna be a singer-songwriter, as you said, um, our 20s are for experimenting. Try everything, and you're gonna learn something from each-
- IGIna Garten
... experience that, um, that's gonna say, "I wanna go in that direction. I don't wanna go in that direction." And then by the time you're 30, you've had those experiences, and now you know what you like, and you can figure out how to make that into a business.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- IGIna Garten
And that's what you did.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah. Well, I knew I didn't wanna own Barefoot Contessa, that's for sure.
- IGIna Garten
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
I did not have it in me, that's for sure.
- 30:46 – 37:50
How to Reinvent Yourself at Any Age
- MRMel Robbins
You know, for somebody who's sitting there listening, saying, "I, I just think it's too late. I think-"
- IGIna Garten
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
"... it's too late to start over."
- IGIna Garten
Mm. It's never too late. I think, didn't, didn't, um, the founder of, uh, Kentucky Fried Chicken start when he was 50?
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- IGIna Garten
Right? I mean, it's never too late. Just forget your age. Just, just think about what you wanna do. I mean, I couldn't run Barefoot Contessa now, but I've done that, and I used it to figure out what the next stage was. Then I used that to figure out the next stage. But just figure out what you like to do. And if you, if you know what you like to do, just think of how you can make that into a business. And I, I knew somebody that was, um, that loved to write, and they loved to watch movies.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- IGIna Garten
I mean, how do you make a business out of that? And she got a job as the, um, movie critic for a local newspaper.
- MRMel Robbins
Do-
- IGIna Garten
I mean, that's... Just think about what you love to do and figure out how you can do it more.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, at one point, you realize you're gonna sell the store.
- IGIna Garten
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Can you put us at the scene of that decision and what led to it?
- IGIna Garten
I can't do this one more day. [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs] I don't wanna smell like carrot muffers and granola anymore, people.
- IGIna Garten
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
I'm outta here.
- IGIna Garten
And you... But no, but you understand, it's-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes
- IGIna Garten
... really hard. And I was running, um, the s- I mean, there were times when I was running two stores, but I was running the store in East Hampton and catering at night. So I would start at 6:00 in the morning and get home at 12 or 1:00 in the morning. And a- at, you know, at some point, you just go, "I can't, I just can't do this [laughs] anymore." And also, I knew how to do it. It wasn't exciting. It wasn't challenging. There weren't problems-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- IGIna Garten
... to solve. And, uh, it was time to try something new. So I tried to figure out what to do, and I tried to figure out how to sell it. And my wonderful accountant, Susanna, and I were talking about it, and she said, "Why don't you sell it to the employees?" And so we figured out a way to sell it to the, the chef and the, and the manager. And I financed it, and they, one day they were the owners.
- MRMel Robbins
That's amazing.
- IGIna Garten
It was great.
- MRMel Robbins
Now, I know after you sold the store, Jeffrey, your husband, tells you, "You love food. Why not think of another way to do it?"
- IGIna Garten
Well, that was after a year of having nothing to do, and that was the hardest year of my life. That was, that was the scariest transition I've ever made because there were times in that year that I was... I would go to the store, thinking, "I just gave up the most interesting career I'll ever have."
- MRMel Robbins
Ugh.
- IGIna Garten
"And I have no idea where this is gonna go." And about nine months in, Jeffrey said, "So what do you have to do this week?" And I was like, "I have nothing to do." [laughs] He said, "You must have something." And I was like, "I have a manicure on Wednesday." [laughs] But that was it. And he said to me, "You know, you love the food business. Why don't you think of a different way to do the food business, other than running a specialty food store?"
- MRMel Robbins
Huh.
- IGIna Garten
And I said, "Well, people have asked me to write a cookbook," but it seemed like such a lonely thing. The store felt like a party.
- 37:50 – 44:45
How to Ask for Space in Your Marriage
- MRMel Robbins
I'd love to have you talk about where you and Jeffrey are on the beach, and you have this realization that things in your marriage need to change.
- IGIna Garten
I think it was a confluence of a few things. It was the first summer when I had the store. He would come to Westhampton on the weekends when I was the busiest, and I knew I was neglecting him-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm
- IGIna Garten
... completely. And then he would leave on Sunday night to go back just when I had a few, you know, a moment to breathe.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- IGIna Garten
Um, I had a new store, which I, I don't have children, but I imagine it's like having a new baby. You just wanna be with that. I wanted the freedom to do whatever I wanted to do, but I also had never lived on my own.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- IGIna Garten
I really didn't know who I was on my own, so I went from my parents' house to Jeffrey's house. And I just felt like I needed to find out who I was on my own-
- MRMel Robbins
Right
- IGIna Garten
... and to shift gears in terms of what our roles were in the relationship. And he, he said the thing that was the most difficult to walk away from is if you feel like you need to be on your own, you need to be on your own, which made me just love him more [laughs] , which was, was really hard. I mean, it, he wasn't mad. He was, he was incredibly empathetic. He was on a trip around the world for the State Department, um, for several months, and then we met again when he came back in, I guess it was in December, in Palm Springs, and we just talked. We talked about what he wanted, what I wanted. We figured out how we could do both. And-
- MRMel Robbins
There it is again: How do we do both?
- IGIna Garten
I remember thinking, "Wow, this is incredible, falling in love with this incredible guy who just happens to be my husband."
- MRMel Robbins
Well, I wanna, like, unpack this a little bit because I really thought this was quite remarkable 'cause-
- IGIna Garten
And, and scary
- MRMel Robbins
... and scary.
- IGIna Garten
Yeah, really scary.
- MRMel Robbins
'Cause you guys had been married for 10 years.
- IGIna Garten
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And you've just now bought this freaking gourmet food store.
- IGIna Garten
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
You're living separately, and then you're trying to cram in, like, time together during the busiest time. Then he's leaving, and then you're deflated, and then you're right back in it, and you're growing apart. But I wanna read to you 'cause y- you've got this beautiful section here where you're reflecting, "When I bought Barefoot Contessa, I shattered our traditional roles, took a baseball bat to them, and left them in pieces. While I was still cooking, cleaning, shopping, managing, and so on at the store, I was doing it as a businesswoman, not a wife. My responsibilities made it impossible for me to even think about anything else. There was no expectation about who got home from work first and what they should do because I never got home from work." And then you write, "Sometime in the middle of the summer, we went for a walk on the beach. It was the hardest thing I ever did, but I found the courage to start the painful conversation. I told him that I needed to be on my own. I didn't say whether it was for now or forever."
- IGIna Garten
I didn't know.
- MRMel Robbins
And what we're learning is you don't have to know.
- IGIna Garten
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
You just have to s... You just see as far as you can.
- IGIna Garten
Start the convers- start the conversation.
- MRMel Robbins
How did starting the conversation change everything when you didn't know? 'Cause a lot of us don't even start the conversation, even if the conversation is, "I don't know what I'm feeling, but I just know it's not working."
- IGIna Garten
I think because we can't control the response.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh.
- IGIna Garten
So you have to start the conversation even though you have no idea what the response is. But the response tells you something about the person you're talking to-
- 44:45 – 47:59
How to Ask for What You Want
- MRMel Robbins
You know, you write about this quote. This is on page 185 of Be Ready When the Luck Happens, and it's a quote attributed to George Lucas. "We're all living in cages with the door wide open. That was me until I realized I had the power and the responsibility to set myself free, to step out of the cage of whatever I'd experienced in the past, to think for myself, and to believe in my choices."
- IGIna Garten
Isn't that the best quote?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- IGIna Garten
"We're all living in cages with the door wide open." It's so... I just, I thought that was such a great visual.
- MRMel Robbins
It really is.
- IGIna Garten
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
But it's hard to see when you keep talking about the cage that you're in.
- IGIna Garten
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
And talk to me about realizing that you have power and the responsibility to set yourself free.
- IGIna Garten
Well, I think we all have the power, whether we're willing to exercise it. It's really like any kind of exercise. You try it a little bit, and you go, "Oh, I, that was... I, I can push back."
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- IGIna Garten
Um, if you're offered a job and you say, "I really want twice as much money," and you go, "Wow, that worked," um, I think you have to just learn to exercise your power and just say, "This is what I want," and be willing for somebody to say you're not gonna get it.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- IGIna Garten
But ask anyway.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes, and then ask somebody else.
- IGIna Garten
And then ask somebody else, [laughs] or here's a better idea. Go do it yourself.
- MRMel Robbins
Go do it yourself.
- IGIna Garten
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
Well, I always say to my daughters, they're like, "I don't think, I don't know if I'll ever..." And I was like, "Do you know how many idiots out there are making more money than most of us?"
- IGIna Garten
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
Like, I think if they can figure it out, so can you.
- IGIna Garten
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
You just have to decide that you're gonna figure it out.
- IGIna Garten
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
That's it.
- IGIna Garten
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
You know, if somebody wants to start a new business-
- IGIna Garten
Mm-hmm
- MRMel Robbins
... they're listening to you, and it's stirring something, what would you say is the best thing to do?
- IGIna Garten
Don't think about being scared. Just think about being excited.
- 47:59 – 49:11
Ina Garten’s Favorite Recipe
- MRMel Robbins
I'm curious to ask you, what's your favorite recipe?
- IGIna Garten
My favorite recipe?
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah. Do you have a favorite recipe?
- IGIna Garten
French apple tart.
- MRMel Robbins
French apple tart?
- IGIna Garten
It's-
- MRMel Robbins
How come it's your... Is it, did you develop it in, w- when you were in Paris?
- IGIna Garten
It, it was... No, it was given to me by Lee Bailey, who was a wonderful cookbook writer, and, um, it's the thinnest, thinnest, thinnest, um, crispy crust, like a buttery crust-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah
- IGIna Garten
... and very thin sliced apples with butter and sugar, into the oven, and it is, to me, just the essence of apples and, um, sweetness. It's very simple recipe, and it's, I, I just think it's just gorgeous.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow. I'm gonna have to-
- IGIna Garten
Are you surprised?
- MRMel Robbins
I was a little surprised. I thought-
- IGIna Garten
What were you thinking it would be?
- MRMel Robbins
I don't know, because you have so many recipes. I mean, I, I don't know what I thought it would be, actually.
- IGIna Garten
I have, I have one menu that I ha- if I'm meeting somebody new and they're coming for dinner, I have one menu that I know I can nail every single time, and it's actually in Barefoot Contessa Parties, and it's rack of lamb with a mustard and balsamic glaze, um, and orzo with roasted vegetables. And if I can serve a French apple tart at the end, it's like the perfect simple dinner. And it's... I don't know why. It just feel, it feels warm and welcoming and absolutely delicious every time.
- 49:11 – 51:04
How to Test Your Dream Career
- MRMel Robbins
You know, when I was on tour, at the very end, I do this exercise, you know, with 9,000 people in one of the arenas, where everybody writes down the wild card chapter. That if they could do anything, nobody would judge you, you could make all the money that you wanted, or you didn't even need to worry about making money, what is the first thing you would do? You don't even need to explain it. And the top two things that people said, one was write a book. The second was, "I would open a bakery."
- IGIna Garten
Really?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- IGIna Garten
Isn't that interesting?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes. That people are really drawn to the experience of being at a beautiful bakery.
- IGIna Garten
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
You talked about how fun it is, and there's a community there, and it smells good, and you feel like you're doing something for yourself. And it becomes either a very special moment if you're visiting a cool town as a tourist, or it becomes part of your routine.
- IGIna Garten
Well, a bakery also is like the heartbeat of a town.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- IGIna Garten
So it really feels good. I had... A very good friend of mine was one of the founders of Burton Snowboards, and she said she always wanted to have a specialty food store. She was literally eight months pregnant when she said this to me, and I said to her, "First work in the bakery before you decide to open a specialty food store." [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- IGIna Garten
And so she came to, to East Hampton.
- MRMel Robbins
Uh-huh.
- IGIna Garten
This was 30 years ago. And she worked at Barefoot Contessa in the bakery. She spent the whole summer there, and she loved it. And she opened a specialty food store in Stowe, Vermont, that was incredibly successful.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow.
- IGIna Garten
So half of the people that you put in the bakery would go, "Oh," have your experience-
- MRMel Robbins
Me. Yeah, I'm out of here
- IGIna Garten
... and then the other half would have Donna Carpenter's experience. [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
So I guess that's a, a great advice.
- IGIna Garten
It's, yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
If you wanna open a bakery, go work in one first.
- IGIna Garten
Go work in one first.
- MRMel Robbins
And that's kind of the advice for everything.
- IGIna Garten
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
If you're interested in something, jump in the pond and splash around, and you're-
- IGIna Garten
Uh-huh
- MRMel Robbins
... gonna figure it out.
- 51:04 – 54:53
How to Build a Life You Love
- MRMel Robbins
Ina, if the person listening takes one thing away from this conversation, what do you think the most important thing you wanna say is?
- IGIna Garten
Do what you love. If you love it, you'll be really good at it.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm. What are your parting words?
- IGIna Garten
We only have one trip around this merry-go-round, and if you're not having fun, what in the world is the point of it? [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
[claps] [laughs] Oh, my God. [gasps]
- IGIna Garten
It's true.
- MRMel Robbins
It's true. What's the point? [laughs]
- IGIna Garten
What's the point? Like, you're not here to suffer and to be stuck-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah
- IGIna Garten
... and miserable and jealous. Like, there's something really cool that you could do if you allow yourself to do it.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm. Well, thank you.
- IGIna Garten
Thank you, Mel.
- MRMel Robbins
Thank you for inspiring us.
- IGIna Garten
Well, thank you for inspiring us always. [laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
You're welcome.
- IGIna Garten
Thank you.
- MRMel Robbins
I think you are such an incredible human being.
- IGIna Garten
Thank you, Mel.
- MRMel Robbins
And your example has made a huge difference in my life, and it's made a huge difference in my life because one of my favorite things in the world is cooking at home and gathering with people that I love. And you don't know this, but you are often there because I'm cracking open my vinegar-
- IGIna Garten
[laughs]
- MRMel Robbins
... stained cookbooks.
- IGIna Garten
Thank you. And I think one of the things that's really important to remember for cooking is make something really simple.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- IGIna Garten
Because the simpler it is, the more you're gonna do it.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- IGIna Garten
And, and it's really about having people around the table together, and create a community for yourself. And I think we really need to have, feel that we're, um... our lives matter to others.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- IGIna Garten
And if you create a group of friends and family and people that matter to you, you'll be good to go.
- MRMel Robbins
What are you actually excited about that you're, that you're doing right now?
- IGIna Garten
Oh, I just started a podcast. [laughs]
Episode duration: 54:57
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Transcript of episode 6KjH6Svur0o
