The Mel Robbins PodcastWhat Makes a Good Life? This Study on 26,000 Regrets Will Guide You for the Rest of Your Life
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
70 min read · 13,708 words- 0:00 – 3:37
Introduction
- MRMel Robbins
Today, you and I are talking about a global study about regret.
- DPDaniel Pink
What we discovered is that around the world people seem to have the same four kinds of regrets: Foundation Regrets, "If only I'd done the work"; Boldness Regrets, "If only I'd taken the chance"; Moral Regrets, "If only I'd done the right thing"; Connection Regrets, "If only I had reached out." And so these four regrets are telling us what makes a good life.
- MRMel Robbins
Daniel Pink is one of the most influential thinkers of our time. He's a multiple New York Times best-selling author. His TED Talk has been viewed more than 12 million times. Daniel Pink led one of the largest studies ever conducted on the topic of regret, and what he discovered is extraordinary.
- DPDaniel Pink
No one's taught us this. This is the thing. Somehow we've been taught the idea that you should be positive all the time and never be negative, and always look forward and never look back, and that's bad advice. And you don't wanna have the conversation where 10 years from now, you have to tell the you of 2036, "Hey, I blew it." What you should be doing is saying, "Regret is part of the human experience. It's a signal. It's a knock at the door. Answer the door, see what it has to tell you, and in a systematic way approach it, draw a lesson from it, and you're gonna be better off."
- MRMel Robbins
Why do we regret the things we didn't do rather than the things we did?
- DPDaniel Pink
Everybody has regret, and you have a choice. You can ignore your regrets or you can wallow in your regrets or you can confront your regrets. And when we do that in a kind way toward ourselves, it makes us better. We get more out of life, we deepen our relationships, we find a greater sense of meaning, and we don't waste our precious time on this planet.
- MRMel Robbins
Hey, it's Mel, and before we get into this episode, my team was showing me 57% of you who watch The Mel Robbins Podcast here on YouTube are not subscribed yet. Could you do me a quick favor? Just hit subscribe so that you don't miss any of the episodes that we post here on YouTube. It lets me know you're enjoying the guests and the content that we're bringing you, because I wanna make sure you don't miss a thing, and I'm so glad you're here for this episode 'cause this is a really good one. All right, let's dive in. Dan Pink, welcome to The Mel Robbins Podcast.
- DPDaniel Pink
Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's great to be with you.
- MRMel Robbins
It's so great to see you. So I have here in my hand a huge stack of regrets.
- DPDaniel Pink
That is a huge stack.
- MRMel Robbins
What we polled our global audience.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
I wanna read some of these to you.
- DPDaniel Pink
Okay.
- MRMel Robbins
Uh, here we go. I'm just turning to a page. Not talking to my father before he passed.
- DPDaniel Pink
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
We weren't on speaking terms for over two years.
- DPDaniel Pink
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
Quitting my career due to burnout instead of asking my family for help.
- DPDaniel Pink
Okay.
- MRMel Robbins
Uh, oh, not being more patient with my kids-
- DPDaniel Pink
Okay
- MRMel Robbins
... when they were younger. Why was I always rushing? Not standing up for myself-
- DPDaniel Pink
Ooh
- MRMel Robbins
... or listening to myself, allowing others to influence my choices.
- DPDaniel Pink
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Not prioritizing my children, choosing a relationship over my kids.
- DPDaniel Pink
Jeeps.
- MRMel Robbins
Not believing in myself when I was younger, not going to medical school. I regret not realizing my worth and allowing disrespect because of it. Wishing I did better in high school. Dating the wrong men.
- DPDaniel Pink
Ah.
- 3:37 – 11:04
How to Deal With Regret (Without Getting Stuck in It)
- MRMel Robbins
life change?
- DPDaniel Pink
Well, first of all, you're gonna know what to do with that kind of emotion. You're gonna take that emotion, which feels bad, you're gonna be able to take that negative sentiment and turn it into something positive. And when you do that, you do some other things. You actually understand what you value in life. You actually find more meaning in life. But wait, there's more. For some of those, there's actually some evidence out there in the research that says that you can become better at your job. You can become a better negotiator. You can become a better problem solver. You can become a better thinker. So, uh, the, the key here is to look those regrets in the eye, not to flinch from them, not to ignore them, not to wallow in them, but to look them in the eye. And those, that pile there, Mel-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes
- DPDaniel Pink
... it, it-
- MRMel Robbins
It is heavy, Dan
- DPDaniel Pink
... but you know what? It's heavy, but it's also positive. Let me tell you why. Because what we think is we think that, and this is how I got into this topic, we think that nobody wants to talk about regrets.
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- DPDaniel Pink
That's proof that that's wrong. People do wanna talk about regrets.
- MRMel Robbins
Everybody, I think, wants to talk about regrets.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
We quietly carry them with us, and I just wanna hover on something that you just said.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
That we can't avoid it, we can't run from it, we need to face it, and that there is something that regret is trying to teach us about how we should be living our life, and I love that. But when I read something like, "Marrying my first husband after he cheated on me," I really regret that. Not talking to my mother, and then she died. You know, just all this wishing I should have. Can you really flip this weight and turn it into something that makes your life better?
- DPDaniel Pink
Yes, you can. Regret clarifies what we value and points us how to do better in the future. This emotion that these people are expressing here-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes
- DPDaniel Pink
... is o- is one of the most common emotions that human beings have.
- MRMel Robbins
Regret.
- DPDaniel Pink
It, yes, it is ubiquitous in the human experience, right? People talk about, say, "Oh, I don't have any regrets. Everything happens for reasons." That's utter BS. The only people who don't have regrets are little kids, because their brains haven't developed the cognitive capacity to do it, people with certain kinds of neurodegenerative disorders, and sociopaths. Otherwise, everybody has regrets, okay? So the question is, why? Why would something that makes us feel so bad be so widespread? And the answer is 'cause it's useful if we treat it right, and here's the problem. Here's the, here's the, here's the heart of it. No one ever taught us how to do that. So what happens is, is that we basically plug our ears and say, "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, no regrets," or we get buried by it. What we wanna do is just chill out.Look at it. Think about it. Stare it in the eye.
- MRMel Robbins
I want to-
- DPDaniel Pink
And when we do that, it's transformative
- MRMel Robbins
I believe you, and when you read these, you feel the weight, letting my best friend and I drift apart, not taking chances, playing secure-
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... not staying longer and holding my dying grandma's hand, securing financial freedom for my future, wishing I got a lump in my breast checked out sooner instead of feeling like I was just overthinking it.
- DPDaniel Pink
Oh, wow.
- MRMel Robbins
Staying in a relationship-
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... longer than I wanted, not having more kids, and my husband rubs my face in it. And I want you, as you're listening to Dan-
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... or you're watching right now, to think about some regret that you have, and we're gonna get into these frameworks-
- DPDaniel Pink
Sure
- 11:04 – 13:13
What Regret Is (And Why Your Brain Won’t Let It Go)
- DPDaniel Pink
lives.
- MRMel Robbins
So let's start with what the heck is regret?
- DPDaniel Pink
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And what's the difference between something you regret versus something that you kind of feel sad about and kind of wish didn't happen, or are those the same things?
- DPDaniel Pink
They're not the same thing. So what regret is, it, regret is a terrible feeling. It's a feeling. This is really important. It's an emotion. It's a feeling we have when we look backward and wish we had done something differently, wish we hadn't done something, wish we'd done something in a different way, right? So we look backward, and we think about a decision or an action, and it makes us feel bad.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DPDaniel Pink
Right? That's what regret is. Now, it is very different from other kinds of emotions. So you can have an emotion like disappointment, um, if you wish something didn't happen. So, um, uh, I, I was, I was on a trip, uh, last week, and they were on the East Coast. There was a massive snowstorm, and I basically had to leave early. And, um, I can't regret that. I didn't make it snow.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DPDaniel Pink
You know? But I can be disappointed. And so, so regret has to have agency. It's something that you did. You can't regret something someone else did.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DPDaniel Pink
It's, uh, it's all about agency. That's why it feels so bad, because we know deep down it's your fault.It's on you. That's why it feels so bad. And so, um, but what's ... That, that bad feeling is a signal. It's data. It's information. It is, it is a knock at the door. Clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk. Okay, so what do we do when there's a knock on the door? You can say, "I don't hear anything." [laughs] All right? "What the ... What knock?" All right? Or you can say, "Oh, my God, a knock on the door," and you can dive under the couch. Or you can say, "Huh, I wonder who's there." Clink. "Oh, it's a regret. What do you got to tell me?" And so, uh, that's how we have to start, that's how we have to start thinking about it. The other thing that comes out in these regrets though, Mel, which is interesting, is people sort of, between the lines, you almost hear them saying or feeling that there's something wrong with them because they have that-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes
- DPDaniel Pink
... this regret. And that's, that's, that is, that's a huge mistake, because everybody has regrets. Everybody has regrets. It doesn't make you bad, it doesn't make you weak, it doesn't make you broken, it makes you human.
- 13:13 – 20:44
Global Regret Study Results: What People Regret Most
- MRMel Robbins
I wanna just talk first about this research that you did.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Because you've done the biggest research study on regrets. 26,000 regrets, 134 countries. What shocked you the most when you dug into the research?
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah. We started something called the World Regret Survey, where we invited people around the world to submit their big regret. We, as you say, we have a very, very large database of regret, and I think the most surprising thing about it is how much they sound exactly like the regrets that you got and exactly like the regrets that other people got. I, I, I, it's, it's the universality. Like, if I were to block out all the fields-
- MRMel Robbins
Okay
- DPDaniel Pink
... except for the regret, and say to you, "Mel, where's this from? This, one of these regrets is from Milwaukee, another one is from Copenhagen, and this one is from Taipei. Which is which?" You wouldn't know. You wouldn't know. If I say, um, uh, "I had a chance to take a, a, a really challenging, demanding job, but I didn't believe in myself, and I regret, um, I regret not taking the shot," and I say to you, "Is this person a man or a woman?" You don't know. And so it's the universality of it that surprised me the most.
- MRMel Robbins
And what were some other things that popped up to you, other than the fact that we all live with and feel burdened by regret, and none of us have been taught how to flip regret, as a very universal experience being human, into something that can change our lives for the better?
- DPDaniel Pink
I'll give you one, um, small example of this, which is that, similar to your pile right there. As I mentioned, I wanted to give people anonymity, 'cause I felt like they were gonna be more, uh, forthright about it all. And, but I also said, "If you're interested in g- doing a follow-up interview, um, leave your email address." I figured we would get maybe 5% of people. We had nearly a third of people leave their email address and say, "Yeah." It's like, "Not only do I want to tell you, a s- complete stranger, my big regret, but here's my email address so you can talk to me some more about it."
- MRMel Robbins
Why did that surprise you so much?
- DPDaniel Pink
Because there is this kind of yearning to unburden yourself-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm
- DPDaniel Pink
... to make sense of it, to talk about it, to, to, you know, to, I like your metaphor, uh, to, to open up that suitcase-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah
- DPDaniel Pink
... and actually see what's in it. And when people do open that up, the act of opening it makes it less menacing.
- MRMel Robbins
You know, given that you are the director of the world's largest study and database on regret, is regret for teaching?
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
What is it for exactly?
- DPDaniel Pink
It, it, it is for understanding what we care about and telling us how to do better in the future. You know, this is not only research that I've done. Social psychologists and neuroscientists and other sc- cognitive scientists have been studying regret for 60 years. And they found, again, regret is one of the most ubiquitous emotions that human beings have. But we also have data showing that when you actually systematically interrogate your regrets, think about your regrets, um, try to learn from your regrets, it makes you better at stuff.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DPDaniel Pink
I mean, at the very least, and we have all kinds of evidence from negotiation. You go into a negotiation session, right? Um, they, the people come out. The, the researchers say, "Tell me what you regret doing or not doing in that negotiation." So they invite the bad, uh, emotion. Then they go to a next negotiation. They do better. And so, so this is actually, regret is actually a tool, and it goes back to the idea that negative emotions have a purpose. They're there for a reason. And if we try to extinguish them, forget about them, we're making a colossal mistake. And we, and I don't think we would do it with other negative emotions.
- MRMel Robbins
What ... You know, 'cause I don't like feeling sad. I don't like feeling frustrated or pissed off-
- DPDaniel Pink
No
- MRMel Robbins
... or disappointed.
- DPDaniel Pink
No.
- MRMel Robbins
I definitely do not like feeling regret-
- DPDaniel Pink
No
- MRMel Robbins
... at all.
- DPDaniel Pink
Nobody does.
- MRMel Robbins
I don't like feeling wrong.
- DPDaniel Pink
You're not supposed to like it.
- 20:44 – 24:32
Why Regret Feels So Lonely
- DPDaniel Pink
universal.
- MRMel Robbins
Can you talk to the person listening who just heard you say we feel like we're the only one, and it's, they're saying to themself, "But the thing that I did is really bad, Dan."
- DPDaniel Pink
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Like, I, I, I, I, this is, I am a horrible person. What does your data say, and what do you wanna say to them?
- DPDaniel Pink
Okay, so what I wanna say to them is practice self-compassion, okay? This is, this is actually a, there's a powerful strand of research on the need to be compassionate to ourselves. This is not some kind of gooey, woo-woo kind of thing. Essentially, here's what I would tell you. Treat yourself with kindness rather than contempt. The way we talk to ourselves internally, you idiot, you, you know, swearing at ourselves internally, is lacerating and mean-spirited. Don't do that. There's no evidence that it-
- MRMel Robbins
Easier said than done
- DPDaniel Pink
... what would you say to a friend in that situation? And say, would you say, "You freaking idiot. You're a moron. You don't know what you're doing. You're a terrible person"? You wouldn't say that. [laughs] I mean, it's, it's preposterous. You wouldn't say that to a friend. So, so treat yourself with kindness rather than contempt. Um, treat yourself the way you would treat a, a, a friend. Second thing is what often happens is that when we make a mistake, when we screw up, when we do something that feels shameful, we think that it constitutes the full measure of our life, and it's not. It's a moment in your life. It's not the full measure of your life. If you think about this timeline, it's like, okay, during this period, you messed up, but this rest of the stuff, you're a decent person.
- MRMel Robbins
It's like a scene in a movie.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah, it's a scene. It's a scene in a decade-long movie, and it doesn't fully, it doesn't fully define you.
- MRMel Robbins
Unless you keep replaying the scene.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah, exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
Is that the biggest mistake we're making?
- DPDaniel Pink
Unless you keep rewinding and watching that scene over and over and over again.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, Dan, I'm just gonna keep on dragging around the suitcase. I cheated. I squandered my finances. I was a jerk to people. I was unkind. I, I, I, I was too... If I'd just shown up earlier, I regret not showing up earlier or picking up the phone because then the person died. I've been dragging this around. I just keep replaying the scene. Is that the biggest mistake that we're making is wallowing in it-
- DPDaniel Pink
That's-
- MRMel Robbins
... and replaying it?
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah, absolutely. We make two different sort of different kinds of mistakes. We ignore it, or we wallow in it, and both are really bad. What we should be doing is like, "Oh, wow, this feels crappy. What is this regret telling me?" And if we treat oursel- You know, the other thing that I would say with a little bit of tough love on this-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes
- DPDaniel Pink
... is-
- MRMel Robbins
Hit me. Let's go
- DPDaniel Pink
... you got to, like, any of these regrets, I mean, I'll, I'll be a compassionate person, but-
- MRMel Robbins
You don't have to be
- DPDaniel Pink
... it's like you're not that special. I mean, [laughs] you know, it's like you tell me about, give me one of these regrets. It's like, oh, wow, you're the really only person in the world who squandered their money. Oh, wow, you're the only person in the world who cheated on their... Like, I got, like, you're not that special. Like, it's part of the human experience. You're a human being. And it, it's not like you're like, it, it, you know, narcissists believe they're singularly excellent, but some of these people are almost reverse narcissists feeling like they're singularly bad. It's like you're not that special. You're a human being who's living an experience, and at a moment, you have a scene where things went off the rails. All right, that feels terrible. I get it. Treat yourself with kindness rather than contempt. Uh, treat yourself like you would a, a friend, and recognize it's a moment in your life rather than the full measure of your life, and when we do that, we can begin to make sense of our regret, and we can begin to draw lessons from it.
- MRMel Robbins
I love that because it doesn't, it, it certainly defines how you handled yourself in that moment. But if you really are willing to use the research that you're about to unpack with us-
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... you can allow it to teach you to becomewho you wanna become in the future. I'd love to hear more about this huge research study, rather, that you did-
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... on regret.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- 24:32 – 24:58
The 4 Types of Regret
- MRMel Robbins
Dan, what's the most common type of regret that you found when you dug into the research?
- DPDaniel Pink
Well, what we, what, what we discovered is that around the world people seem to have the same four kinds of regrets.
- MRMel Robbins
So these fall in buckets.
- DPDaniel Pink
Right. So there are four, there are four categories all over the world: Foundation Regrets, if only I'd done the work; uh, Boldness Regrets, if only I'd taken the chance; Moral Regrets, if only I'd done the right thing; and Connection Regrets, if only I'd reached out. The most common regret was a regret of connection,
- 24:58 – 34:11
Connection Regrets: The #1 Regret People Carry
- DPDaniel Pink
right? And so typically the story was this: you had a relationship or should've had a relationship that, that was intact and, or should've been intact, and it comes apart, usually in undramatic ways. There's very little ... There's, like, less drama than you would think. "Hey, I have my ... Hey, I went to college with my friend Mel, and we were really tight, and then ... But I haven't seen her for 10 years. I should really give her a call, see how she's doing. Oh, no. It's gonna be so awkward, and she's not gonna care," so I don't do it. And sometimes it's too late. There's, uh, one woman I interviewed who had a friend who was, uh, who was deeply ill, uh, and she hemmed and hawed about reaching out to her 'cause she thought it was gonna be awkward, and when she finally did call, the friend had died that morning. Um-
- MRMel Robbins
That morning?
- DPDaniel Pink
That morning. There are other people who, um ... One woman named Cheryl who, um, I interviewed had this great friend from college actually who she drifted apart from, and she, for 20 years, 25 years, and she didn't call her. She'd wanted to call her, but she didn't call her.
- MRMel Robbins
And what happened next?
- DPDaniel Pink
So I got kinda frustrated with her because it was a classic example of a, of a Connection Regret, but as I have these interviews, I'm getting to know this person better, and I'm thinking to myself, "Cheryl, you know what to do here."
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- DPDaniel Pink
And so finally I get an email maybe five days later. I send an email to her, her friend's name was Jen. I send an email to Jen, and she was so happy to hear from me, and then they ended up having a phone conversation, and then they ended up meeting up. And now, I swear, I get a photograph every six months of, "Hey, I just saw Jen. Here's a photo of us together." And so, you know, that, that's, that's what happens. And this woman was, like, living with this regret for 20 years, and all she had to do was reach out, and she, once she did, things were better.
- MRMel Robbins
So I've got a story like this. So when you and I were in elementary school and high school, we're talking '70s and early '80s.
- DPDaniel Pink
You got it. You got it.
- MRMel Robbins
No social media, no cellphones.
- DPDaniel Pink
Absolutely not.
- MRMel Robbins
I went east for college. I grew up in the Midwest. My best friend, Jodi Bricken, stayed in the Midwest, and our two paths separated.
- DPDaniel Pink
Okay.
- MRMel Robbins
And I stayed out east. She moved to Chicago. She then moved out west. We spent the next 20-some years not talking.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
For no reason.
- DPDaniel Pink
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
For no reason. We just had no cellphones. Like, you know, I didn't even think to follow her because once I got social media, we hadn't talked in, like, 10 years, just because we didn't see each other again, 'cause I moved far away. She moved far away. And then we ended up bumping into each other one summer-
- DPDaniel Pink
Hmm
- MRMel Robbins
... in, I think, my mid-40s.
- DPDaniel Pink
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And I immediately was flooded with how much I missed her. And we started making these dates, Dan, that whenever we would both travel for work, we would try to line up our calendars, and then we'd stay in a hotel room together, and she'd be at her business conference. I'd be at mine. It's one of the greatest joys of my life. Just took a second, Dan.
- DPDaniel Pink
It takes a second to reconnect, and what I have found in interviewing people like this is that the relationship restarts almost instantly.
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, my God, we text every week. I talk to her on the phone.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
We see each other many times a year even though we live nowhere ... We live in completely different parts of the country. I'm in Vermont. She's in Arizona. But we ... It has brought so much joy to my life.
- DPDaniel Pink
And that's how, that's how a lot of these relationships come apart. There's like, you know, it's like we think that relationships come apart because there's some kind of explosion, and in this case, and in many cases, just adrift. That was the case with, with Cheryl and Jen. That was the case with you and Jodi. It just drifts, and all you have to do, reach out.
- MRMel Robbins
I cannot tell you how much joy it will bring you. If there's somebody on your mind that you're thinking about as I tell you the story of Jodi, call them. Text them. Send them this episode and say, "You just listened to this episode with Mel and Dan, and you were the first person that popped into my mind-
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... and I would have, and I just had to reach out to you. I miss you. I just was thinking about you."
- 34:11 – 35:28
Don’t Wait to Reach Out: Fixing Relationships Before It’s Too Late
- MRMel Robbins
regret? Because I see it a lot. I didn't tell my mom or dad how they felt, or my brother or my sister, and then they died.
- DPDaniel Pink
It is, the, the solution is very, very simple. Say it now. Period. Full stop. That's all that it is. And if it feels a little awkward, fine. Push past that awkwardness. The feeling of awkwardness you're experiencing now is nothing compared to the feeling of regret you might feel five years from now, 10 years from now.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- DPDaniel Pink
Uh, and just, and, and just say it. And the thing is, like, this is also learned behavior because once you do it, the next one becomes easier.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- DPDaniel Pink
Once you do that, it becomes easier and easier and easier and easier. Listen, listen, listen. This is not natural be- again, like, like I'm like a, I'm like a gu- I'm like a guy in my, I'm like a straight white man in my early 60s. It's not natural for me to text a buddy of mine and say, "Hey, I'm thinking of you." All right? That is not, that is learned behavior. That is not natural behavior. But you know what? When you do that, the second time [laughs] it's not as awkward. And there's not been a single time I've done something like that where someone said, "Ew, that's weird." Instead, it's the exact opposite. "Oh my God, so nice of you. Fantastic." Get a, "Hey, that was so nice of you to text. Like, what's going on with you?"
- 35:28 – 38:25
Foundation Regrets: “I Should’ve Done the Work”
- MRMel Robbins
One of the other buckets is foundation regrets.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
What are those?
- DPDaniel Pink
Your, your regret about debt is a foundation regret. Uh, small-
- MRMel Robbins
Meaning I was, like, spending too mu- I was very irresponsible with money, spent money that I didn't have, racked up all... That's a foundation regret?
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah. I'll tell you why. Because each individual act of spending was not itself cataclysmic. It's small decisions that you make early in life that accumulate to terrible consequences later on. So s- I spent too much and saved too little, now I'm broke. Hugely common regret. I didn't exercise or eat right, now I'm profoundly unhealthy. Y- you smoke one cigarette, it's fine. You do it for 20 years, it's not so fine. And so these are regrets that accumulate and then have terrible consequences. And that's how these things catch up on us. I had a guy who talked about, this, this guy, lovely guy from Tennessee who had a tough background and, but did very well in his career. Um, but never saved money 'cause he ate out, he ate out all the timeAnd he felt good about taking people out to dinner, picking up the check all the time. And you go out to eat, you know, five times a week for 10 years, it's gonna add up, man. And so, you know, suddenly he's like, "Oh my God, I'm 40 years old. I have no savings, and I'm like living paycheck to paycheck even though I have a good job." So it's those, it's those kinds of things. So that one time you go out to dinner and treat your friends, it's all cool. It's the accumulation of it all that, that really, that really does it. So, and again, it, it, it, it, it erodes the foundation of our, of our lives. And one of the things about regret is that regret is telling us what constitutes a good life.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DPDaniel Pink
Okay? So these four regrets are telling us what makes a good life. And one of the things that makes a good life, that I think sometimes gets short shrift, is that a good life has some stability. A good life has a foundation to it. A good life is, is not precarious. You know, we can talk about self-actualizing and feeling a sense of purpose and meaning, and da, da, da, da, but if, like, you can't pay your rent, your life is less good.
- MRMel Robbins
So it sounds like foundational regrets, these things that sneak up on us-
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... and then all of a sudden we've fallen off a cliff-
- DPDaniel Pink
Boom
- MRMel Robbins
... and our health is terrible.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
We have no money.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
We're addicted to alcohol or smoking.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
We've been a workaholic-
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... and never made time for friends.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And now we have no idea where all our friends are.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
That these are kind of like the little daily habits that either lead you to building the foundation of a good life or that have you constantly putting it off for a rainy day.
- DPDaniel Pink
You know, in that, in that famous fable, you had the, the grasshopper who was spending all summer, you know, playing the fiddle and dancing around, or you, or you had the ant who was assiduously gathering food for the dark winter. And here's the thing: it's like you don't wanna live your entire life as an ant. You don't wanna always prepare for gloom or doom. But you wanna be a little ant-like because your life is gonna be better, uh, if you take responsibility, if you build that foundation.
- 38:25 – 47:33
Boldness Regrets: “I Should’ve Taken the Chance”
- MRMel Robbins
Let's talk about one of the other categories of regrets, which is boldness.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
What does that mean?
- DPDaniel Pink
Okay. This is a really big category, and it spreads throughout all of our lives, and I think it tells us something really, really important. Boldness regrets are this: you look back on your life and you had two choices. You play it safe, take the chance. Play it safe, take the chance. Hey, I can study abroad even though I've never been out of the country, or I can just go and do my thing for another semester. Um, hey, this person is ... I'm really attracted to, uh, I wanna ask him or her out on a date, or I can just wimp out and not do it. You know what? I'm so deadened by this job, I can either stay in it and continue the deadening or I can take a risk and start a business.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DPDaniel Pink
Overwhelmingly, when people don't take the shot, they regret it. Overwhelmingly, and it doesn't matter the domain of life. It's like e- when we look back on our lives, what, what really bums us out is not taking the chance, not speaking up for something we care about, not standing up for ourselves, not starting that business. I got hundreds of regrets about dating. It's like, oh my God, there was this guy or this gal, and I really liked him, and, like, you know, this is 30 years ago and I really wish I had asked them out on a date. So, um, regrets of boldness. If only I'd taken the shot.
- MRMel Robbins
I'm so happy that you said it was overwhelmingly focused on things that you didn't do because I do believe-
- DPDaniel Pink
Oh, yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... there's kind of two ways to go through life. You either are gonna be saying, "Boy, I wish I had," or, "Boy, I'm so glad I did." And as I went through even our own, like, thousands and thousands, I didn't really see a lot of regrets saying, "I really regret quitting that job and starting the business even though it failed. I really regret, you know, like selling everything and figuring out how to travel full time. I really regret moving." I, I, I didn't see really anybody reporting that boldness when it was a decision aligned with something that they yearned for ended up being a regret.
- DPDaniel Pink
Amen on that one, man.
- MRMel Robbins
Can we talk about a common phrase-
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... that we saw, and I know it showed up profoundly-
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... in this massive research study-
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... that you did on regrets, which is, "I wish I had done this sooner."
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
So it's almost like this two-pronged regret where you regretted something and then you have the double regret of wishing, once you caught it, that you caught it sooner.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
What keeps people in this waiting period? 'Cause I do feel like there is, at least in the I wish I'd gotten out of the relationship sooner-
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah. Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... I wish I would've quit this ru- I wish I would've gone back to nursing school sooner.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
I wish I would've ... That it's almost an admission to yourself that those years you spent talking yourself out of it, you knew the truth all the time.
- DPDaniel Pink
You might have. You might have. Um, but sometimes the timing isn't right. I give yourself a lot of grace on that.
- MRMel Robbins
How come?
- DPDaniel Pink
Um, because you did something. You took the action.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DPDaniel Pink
You know? You, you took the action. There's this old Chinese proverb which is, you know, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. Second best time is now. And so that's what you, uh, you just have to think about it that way. So if you, so, so if you stopped smoking, that's fantastic. Y- yeah, maybe you should've stopped five years ago, but you didn't, and so give yourself some grace 'cause you did something really hard that is actually valuable for yourself and your family. I really think you gotta treat yourself with, with, with grace and not obsess over doing something sooner. We, you know, we, we, um, a lot of us are, like, kind of risk-averse, and Daniel Kahneman, the great, um, uh, Nobelist, um, he has, he has research basically distilling to this: quitting at the right time always feels like quitting too early. That's just the way that it is. Quitting at the right time always feels like quitting too early.
- 47:33 – 51:26
Action vs Inaction Regrets (Why “What If” Hurts More)
- MRMel Robbins
Why do we regret the things we didn't do rather than the things we did?
- DPDaniel Pink
Oh, hugely important question, and this is a big, big deal. We have, there's a, there's a lot of existing research on this. In architecture of regret, there are two kinds of regrets. There are regrets of action and regrets of inaction. I regret something I did, I regret something I didn't do. Now, um, what, what you see over and over again is that with action regrets, I regret something I did. If only I had married, um, Fred instead of Ed-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm
- DPDaniel Pink
... I would be much happier. All right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- DPDaniel Pink
So we say, we say if on- if only. So that's what's called in the literature an upward counterfactual. We think about how things could've been better.
- MRMel Robbins
And that's the dating one.
- DPDaniel Pink
That's the, well, yeah. That's, that's if it, that's if I, if only I had married, if only I had married Fred instead of, instead of, instead of Ed. But with action regrets, we can do what's called a downward counterfactual. We imagine how things could've turned out worse.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- DPDaniel Pink
And there's some really super cool research on this, but here's what, here's where it comes up in the database. Legions of people, all women, sen- saying senten- "I shouldn't have married that idiot"But at least I have these two great kids.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DPDaniel Pink
Downward counterfactual. There's a famous piece of research, I love it. They showed photographs of the three medalists on the Olympic medal stand in a number of different situations. Um, but they didn't show what medal they got, and they asked people, based on their facial expressions, how happy are they? And so not surprisingly, the happiest looking people were the gold medalists. The second happiest people were the bronze medalists, not the silver medalists, right? Because the silver medalists were doing an upward counterfactual. If only I had pedaled four-tenths of a second faster, I'd have the gold. The bronze medalists were doing a downward counterfactual. At least I have a bronze, not like this schmoe who's fourth-tenths of a second behind me-
- MRMel Robbins
[laughs]
- DPDaniel Pink
... who's like, doesn't get a medal at all. And so for action regrets, we can at least them. Or-
- MRMel Robbins
So I married the wrong person, and I regret doing that, but at least I have kids
- DPDaniel Pink
... at least I have these two great kids.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- DPDaniel Pink
All right? So, so it makes us feel better.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- DPDaniel Pink
Doesn't make us necessarily do better, but it makes us feel better. With inaction regrets, we can't do that stuff.
- MRMel Robbins
That's true. You didn't do it.
- DPDaniel Pink
You can't undo it. You didn't do it. You can't undo something you didn't do, you know? It's metaphysically impossible. You can't do it.
- MRMel Robbins
Let's say the person who's listening or watching right now is sitting on a big decision. Maybe it's about their career, maybe it's about the next big step in a relationship, maybe it's about a big move.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And they're stuck in that overthinking, not quite sure what to do in terms of taking this risk or making this decision. What does your research suggest?
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah. So if you're th- if you're thinking about that, you're not sure what to do, you can ha- imagine having a conversation with someone who you haven't met yet, but who cares deeply about you.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- DPDaniel Pink
And that is the you of 10 years from now.
- MRMel Robbins
So 10 years from now, you're talking to-
- DPDaniel Pink
So imagine you're having a, a conversation with the you of 2036.
- 51:26 – 53:52
Moral Regrets: Guilt, Shame & “I Didn’t Do the Right Thing”
- MRMel Robbins
What is moral regret?
- DPDaniel Pink
You're at a juncture in your life, you have two choices. You can, you can take the high road, you can take the low road, and when you take the low road, when you do the wrong thing, most of us, most of the time, regret it. And in this category, it was the smallest category, but very, very, very deeply held. And this is sort of the par- kind of a, the weird thing about this topic of regret is that the more you go into it, at least for me, the better I feel about human beings. Because what this suggests to us is that most of us are good, most of us want to be good, and most of us feel shitty when we're not good. I, I think that like 95% or 98% of us are good people who wanna do the right thing, and when we don't do the right thing, we feel bad about that. S- Well, 98% of people like wanna do the right thing and feel bad, that's good. The, those 2% mess things up for everybody else. Um, but, um, that's what... So m- so moral regrets are, "If only I'd done the right thing."
- MRMel Robbins
And so if the person who's listening right now is feeling that weight, what's the first step to take in order to free themself of this burden that they've been carrying around?
- DPDaniel Pink
So o- o- one thing as I, as I, as I mentioned before is to treat yourself with, with, uh, with kindness rather than contempt. Treat yourself with compassion. You are not the only person who has a moral regret. Every single human being has a moral regret. Um, it, it doesn't mean that you're a shameful, terrible person. It means that you might have done a bad thing.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- DPDaniel Pink
And so it's also a, a, a kind of a moment in your life, a scene in your life, rather than the full measure of your life. So there are different things that you can do. If you've hurt somebody, all right? If you have cheated somebody, if you have harmed somebody in a way, go make amends. Then you-
- MRMel Robbins
How do you do that if the person isn't here, and you cannot forgive yourself? You play it over.
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
You hold onto the regret about what happened.
- DPDaniel Pink
First of all, you can talk about your regret, and the other thing, especially as we get older, we can instruct other people who are younger how to live better than we did.
- MRMel Robbins
So let's talk about just how we deal with the regret-
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... we haven't dealt with. Let's go through the process-
- DPDaniel Pink
Yeah
- MRMel Robbins
... based on this research. So now that we know that we're dealing with
- 53:52 – 1:09:13
3-Step Method to Process Regret
- MRMel Robbins
whether it's a connection or foundation or boldness or a moral regret-
- DPDaniel Pink
Right
- MRMel Robbins
... let's look at your research and unpack for a stand, how do we actually face a regret that we haven't dealt with yet?
- DPDaniel Pink
Okay. So I look at it as three stages.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- DPDaniel Pink
Inward, outward, forward.
- MRMel Robbins
Inward, outward, forward.
- DPDaniel Pink
Right. So inward. Inward is what, inward is basically how you treat yourself, and as I've mentioned, the, you know, the way we talk to ourselves in the face of screw-ups is brutal and cruel. Um, if you were to sort of implant in my head and like broadcast my self-talk out there, if I would do that in a workplace-HR would be intervening immediately
- MRMel Robbins
I'd drive you to the f- seventh floor of Mass General bring him right in.
- DPDaniel Pink
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
Right? He's like, "He's nuts. Get him out of here." [laughs]
- DPDaniel Pink
Get out. This, this, this is, is a madman the way he's talking to other people.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- DPDaniel Pink
So, so, so, so don't do that please. And, and here's the thing, it's not only 'cause it's not nice, because we have piles of evidence showing that that kind of, uh, horrifying, lacerating self-criticism doesn't improve your performance. What does improve your performance is self-compassion, which is treating yourself with kindness rather than contempt, treating yourself the way you would treat a friend. And when, and when we do that, okay, so that's inward, treat yourself with kindness rather than contempt, recognize that regrets are part of the human experience, i.e., you're not that special, and, um, also, and this is I think super important, is that it's a moment in your life. It's not the full measure of your life. And so when we do that, that opens the way to the second stage, which is, which is outward.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- DPDaniel Pink
And there is a very, very strong argument here for writing about and talking about our regrets.
- MRMel Robbins
Why does writing about or talking about your regrets help you?
- DPDaniel Pink
It does a few things. First, it's an unburdening, because we're carrying something and you sort of say, "Oh, I got this heavy backpack on. Let me just put it on the table here." Okay? You're putting it on the table, right? So but more important than that, and I think this is the really interesting thing, um, there's a guy at the University of Texas, uh, Jamie Pennebaker's done a lot of research on this, if you write about a big regret you have for 15 minutes a day for three days, you feel better about it. It's less, it's less-
- MRMel Robbins
Why do you think that works?
- DPDaniel Pink
Because what you're doing is you're taking something blobby, you're taking this, like, phantom that is, like, stalking you, and you're saying, "Okay, come here. Sit down here. Let's see what you're really made of. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh." Um, and, and you're, you're converting this blobby thing into concrete words.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- DPDaniel Pink
And that helps you make sense of it. It makes it l- it makes it less menacing. We go from abstract to so much more concrete.
- MRMel Robbins
So we start with the inward, which is you gotta shift your self-talk, and one of the ways to really leverage this research is to say, "I'm not the only person who's done this."
- DPDaniel Pink
No way.
- MRMel Robbins
And if I can really embrace that I did the best that I could at the time, and I'm gonna stop beating myself up, the, the inward is how you talk to yourself.
- DPDaniel Pink
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
It's like dropping the sword against yourself. Outward is get it out of your head-
- DPDaniel Pink
Exactly
- MRMel Robbins
... and get it on paper or go talk to somebody about it be- and that I love the exercise of just three days in a row for 15 minutes write about it, and suddenly, based on the research, you're gonna have this shift where you're like, "Well, okay." But what happens after you write about it?
- DPDaniel Pink
Okay, this is the key. So the third part is, is forward. You gotta f- you gotta actually think hard and draw a lesson from it and say, "What does this, what is this lesson telling me and what should I do next?" There's some interesting research about self-talk where we're actually cl- more clearheaded when we talk to ourselves in the third person. It's cra-
Episode duration: 1:09:14
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