World Leading Psychologist: How to Manifest Anything & Create the Life You Want

1. 0:00 – 3:15

   Introduction

   1. MRMel Robbins0:00

      Today, on The Mel Robbins Podcast, how to manifest anything and unlock the power of your mind to create the life you deserve, with World Leading Psychologist, Dr. Cassandra Vieten. Okay, before we jump into this extraordinary episode, my team was showing me something that brought up a lot of emotion. 58% of you who watch The Mel Robbins Podcast here on YouTube are not subscribers. It would make me feel so supported, seen, and grateful if you would subscribe. If that subscribe button is lit up, it means you're not a subscriber. Will you help me achieve my goal of getting that number to 50%? It's free. That way you're not gonna miss a thing, and most importantly, it's one way that you can tell me and the team here at The Mel Robbins Podcast that you love all the content that we're putting here on YouTube for free. This episode is gonna be one of your all-time favorites. I can just feel it. So let's jump into it. Cassandra Vieten, welcome to The Mel Robbins Podcast.

   2. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten1:04

      Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

   3. MRMel Robbins1:05

      I am thrilled that you're here. The subject of your research is so fascinating, and what I wanna start with is what could change about my life if I take everything to heart that you're about to teach us about the power of our imagination, visualization, manifestation, consciousness. If I apply everything you're about to teach me, what could change?

   4. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten1:29

      Well, I mean, I think it's a couple things. One is that you become the author of your life. You become the person who creates the world that you want to live in. And the second is sometimes you'll hear the phrase, "The magic is gone," from a relationship or from a job or something. I really believe in imagination's power to bring the magic back into your life, and I don't mean magic in a fake sense. I mean the vitality, the awe, the wonder, the mystery, the beauty. Just the fun parts of life, the spices that make life so interesting and bring back that curiosity.

   5. MRMel Robbins2:07

      I love that. I wanna put a giant highlighter on what you just said. The power of your imagination to bring magic back into your life.

   6. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten2:19

      Yeah.

   7. MRMel Robbins2:20

      Is that possible?

   8. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten2:22

      Absolutely. Absolutely. I work with hundreds and hundreds of people every year who feel like, as you grow up, you become 9, 10, 11 years old, and people say, "Okay, time to stop imagining. Time to get real." You know, "That's imaginary. That's not... Yeah, that doesn't really happen. None of that actually happens." And so you're trained over time to become this very serious, logical, rational, reasonable type of person. And what happens, unfortunately, is that it's almost like the pendulum swings too far in that direction-

   9. MRMel Robbins2:52

      Hmm

   10. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten2:53

       ... and you lose that sense of awe and wonder and mystery and even, like, noticing synchronicities that happen or noticing things that are amazing. You're sort of like, "Oh, filter that out. Just stay focused," when those are the things that people actually, when they look back at their lives, they remember those moments as some of the most important things that happened to them.

   11. MRMel Robbins3:14

       I would love to

2. 3:15 – 8:19

   How to Stop Reacting to Your Life & Be More Present

   1. MRMel Robbins3:15

      have you speak to the person who's listening right now, who feels like they're just reacting to life, because 70% of the millions of people that listen to this show every single week responded to a survey that we just put out saying, "I feel like I'm reacting. I'm not really living my life. I'm not creating anything." W- Dr. Vieten, based on your research, what can they learn to do that will help them switch out of that mode of like, "I'm just trying to survive here. I didn't even realize creating something different was possible"?

   2. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten3:48

      Yeah, I mean, first of all, it's not your fault. Society and culture right now has been set up in a way that is encouraging us to be reactive. I call it the great flattening. I can't tell you how much of my day I spend in front of a Zoom screen or in front of a TV screen or in front of my phone screen. So a lot of people are waking up in the morning, and all the way until the evening, all they're doing is reacting to what comes at them. So how does imagination help with this? Well, I like to think of life as sort of like a tapestry. So let's say you have threads that are weaving into the tapestry, and these are the actual constraints of your life, all of the stuff that you have no control over. It's your genetics. It's how... what networks you have, what opportunities you have, et cetera. But then you've got the part of life that you create and you weave in, and a lot of that is imagined. I mean, first of all, some of the threads that come into your life that you perceive as reality, you're actually imagining. You think they're reality. The limits-

   3. MRMel Robbins4:50

      Give me an example. What do you mean?

   4. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten4:52

      Well, so how about, um, the only thing that I can do to be successful is work at a 40, 50, 60-hour a week job. That's what it is. That's the deal. That's the only way that anybody's ever successful.

   5. MRMel Robbins5:03

      That's not true?

   6. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten5:04

      No. There are tons of different people who do work in many, many, many different ways. So some of the limits that we think are hard and fast are either individually imagined or collectively imagined, and you can decide, "I want to imagine something different." But even more important, there are real constraints. There is reality. But throughout our day, when we encounter our reality, I like to call it Swiss cheese reality. And so we see some things, we observe them, but there are a lot of gaps. So let's say I run into a new person at my job, and she walks up, and she's really well-dressed and extremely well put-together, and I look at her, and immediately I'm observing, but then I'm also imagining, "Oh, this is somebody who really has their shit together," or, you know, "They know what they're doing," or, "They come from a lot of privilege," or, "They probably think they're better than me," or... You know, I mean, I'm already off to the races. I'm not even noticing that imagination. I'm seeing that as reality, but I'm-

   7. MRMel Robbins6:03

      Mm-hmm

   8. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten6:03

      ... weaving that in to what reality really is. What could I do instead? I could decide that the threads of imagination that I weave into my reality, I want them to be something different. I want to imagine that everybody's pretty much doing their best. That most people are excited about helping if they are asked for help.

   9. MRMel Robbins6:25

      As I was sitting here talk... thinking about the example about meeting a new colleague that's dressed to the nines, you don't stop to consider that your opinion and immediate impression of this person is something you've imagined.

   10. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten6:40

       You've imagined it.

   11. MRMel Robbins6:41

       And it's a helpful example because when you hear the word imagination, I tend to think about Disney or Avatar or these worlds that don't exist, but you're challenging me and the person who's here listening to consider that a lot of the opinions that you have about yourself or the way that the world works or who other people are or are not, are examples of things you've imagined, and you just live as though it's fact.

   12. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten7:14

       Yeah. We are inherently storytellers, and we only have a little bit of the available information at any given point in time. And so we can say to ourselves, "I wanna retrain the way I tell a story about my life. I don't want this to be my story anymore."

   13. MRMel Robbins7:32

       Dr. Vieten, what are the specific mindset tools that you're gonna teach us today that can help you stop reacting to your life and start creating the life that you want?

   14. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten7:45

       Today, I'm gonna talk about visualization, manifestation, and imagination. How you can visualize, manifest, you know, do all of these practices to help you be more skillful about your imagination once you've recognized the science and you know you have it and it's influential. And the third is to tap into a territory of your being that is not your usual way of being, that holds information and energy for you that you cannot access any other way.

   15. MRMel Robbins8:17

       Oh, my God. I love this. Let's

3. 8:19 – 13:33

   The Science of Visualization

   1. MRMel Robbins8:19

      just jump right in. What is visualization?

   2. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten8:22

      So for most people, visualization is one of the easiest ways to access their imagination. There's so much brain real estate that's dedicated to vision that we can actually use that even when our eyes are closed. And I want to expand the definition of that to say it's not always pictures in your mind. Sometimes it's a feeling that you want to imagine-

   3. MRMel Robbins8:43

      Hmm

   4. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten8:43

      ... or it's a movement or an environment. So when we talk about visualization, let's think about it in terms of where do I wanna be, how does it feel, not only what does it look like, because there's a lot of people out there who their visualization is kinda blocky, right?

   5. MRMel Robbins9:02

      I always thought you had to picture it in your mind.

   6. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten9:05

      No, and that's so... It, it's hard for people because when I used to teach workshops ear- in the early days, I would make everybody visualize, and we'd always have these four or five people who are like, "I didn't see anything." And I had to learn not everyone visualizes. Some people are much better at storytelling. So let's say that your story of your life is that you're a pinball in a pinball machine, and you get shot out of that little tunnel every morning and then bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, ching, ching, ching, ching, ching, and you don't get to decide. You just get blasted around all the time. You might then say, "I don't want my future to be the pinball machine future."

   7. MRMel Robbins9:44

      Hmm.

   8. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten9:44

      "I want my future to be the hiking through the Alps woman. I engage with everyone I encounter along the way. I have uphill battles, but when I do that, I breathe deeply, and I walk methodically. And then when I see a beautiful view or a moment of joy, a small little flower coming up from a rock, I sit and spend time with that," that the walker becomes your new story.

   9. MRMel Robbins10:15

      I think it's so helpful to know that you could use the power of visualization by writing a story versus closing your eyes and trying to see the movie scene of it. I'll give another example because this is something that I've been working on for a long time, which is I think for a very long time, like a lot of people, I had a story, it's all up to me.

   10. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten10:35

       Yeah.

   11. MRMel Robbins10:35

       It's all up to me.

   12. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten10:36

       All up to me.

   13. MRMel Robbins10:36

       Like, I... Like, it always comes back to me. It's up to me. Like, there's... You know, if, if I don't do it, nobody's doing it. Oh, you know, they didn't do it, so I gotta do it. And it's not empowering, and it just plays on repeat, and I have been... I didn't realize it was visualization. I have been working on a different story, which is I don't have to do it alone.

   14. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten10:59

       Right.

   15. MRMel Robbins10:59

       There's a lot of help. All I have to do is ask for help. There's a lot of people that wanna help. This is... It is not all up to me.

   16. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten11:06

       Yeah, and it's not even skillful to have it be all up to you. Like, I was working with a client the other day where we were using the metaphor of an obstacle course, and you know those military obstacle courses where you're, like, crawling underneath the ropes and then you gotta get over this gigantic wall. How do they get over that gigantic wall?

   17. MRMel Robbins11:24

       Somebody else pushes you up.

   18. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten11:25

       That's right. Yeah. So you could say, "I gotta do it all myself," but you could also be stuck at that wall for many, many years because you simply will not ask someone to give you the boost.

   19. MRMel Robbins11:36

       I've never thought about visualization as writing a different story.

   20. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten11:40

       Hmm.

   21. MRMel Robbins11:40

       I've always thought I have to close my eyes crisscross applesauce with my feet and try to see the movie.

   22. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten11:48

       Hmm.

   23. MRMel Robbins11:48

       And it's very frustrating if you're in a position in your life where you want things to change, but you can't actually see the movie of the change.

   24. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten11:58

       Yeah.

   25. MRMel Robbins11:59

       But I do think it's accessible and easy if you start with, "Okay, what about my current story do I hate and I'm tired of?"

   26. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten12:07

       Right.

   27. MRMel Robbins12:08

       "And if it were just the opposite of that, what would that look like? If I weren't a pinball, if I didn't have to do it all alone, what's the opposite story?" And then write that out.

   28. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten12:19

       And here's a super fun exercise because part of imagination is also what we call thought experiments. And that does kind of use the thinking mind. So let's say that you are stuck in a situation that is really, really difficult, whether it's a job or a family matter, whatever it is. Write down 10 ways that you could make it worse.

   29. MRMel Robbins12:42

       [laughs] You could make it worse?

   30. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten12:44

       Write down 10 ways that you could make the situation worse, that you could make the situation worse. And the exercise is, after you write down the 10 ways, flip it. What are the things that you... What's the opposite of the thing you wrote that would make it worse? And it is fascinating, because you come up with answers that you wouldn't come up with by just saying, "What should I do?" You force yourself to be like, "Okay, let me make this as bad as it could possibly be."
4. 13:33 – 25:19

   How Manifestation Really Works

   1. MRMel Robbins13:33

      in it?

   2. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten13:33

      That's right. That's right.

   3. MRMel Robbins13:34

      Okay. A lot of people talk about manifestation.

   4. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten13:37

      Yeah.

   5. MRMel Robbins13:37

      And we also did an extraordinary episode on the neuroscience of manifestation with the late Dr. Jim Doty.

   6. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten13:43

      Yeah. Yeah.

   7. MRMel Robbins13:43

      Who I know was a really good friend of yours. Um, how does that fit in-

   8. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten13:50

      Yeah

   9. MRMel Robbins13:50

      ... to your research around imagination, what we just talked about with visualization?

   10. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten13:56

       I love how Jim talks about manifestation, and I believe he's absolutely right that it's not so much about just picturing something I want in the future and then magically having it appear, but it is about visualizing purposely, intentionally, what direction do I wanna move in?

   11. MRMel Robbins14:14

       Hmm.

   12. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten14:15

       Where do I wanna be in my life? How do I wanna show up? And the more we visualize that, we write about it, we draw it, we think about it, we conjecture about it, we tell other people about it, the realer and realer it becomes to our mind and to our brain. And what we're trying to do is get everything in there rowing in the same direction. Because a lot of times, people are moving into the future, they have one foot on the gas, and they have one foot on the brake. And they're like, "Why am I not getting anywhere, and what's that noise," [laughs] right? And you don't even know you have the one foot on the brake. So to keep that foot on the gas, and to lift... to take the risk of lifting the foot off the brake, you've gotta keep telling your mind and your brain, "This is, in fact, where we're going. This is going to happen. I am going to be okay. I'm not gonna lose something important by pursuing this dream or this goal." And that's what people are often scared of, is, "If I pursue this dream, I am going to lose something. I'm gonna be... I'm, I'm gonna look foolish. I'm going to betray my family, who said, 'The only thing you should do is become an accountant, a doctor, or a lawyer.'" I'm... So many things. And so also having a lot of compassion for yourself about the things that you are unconsciously imagining might go wrong, to hold that part of yourself closely, and to say, "Look, I know you're scared, but we are doing this. How can I make you feel more comfortable? 'Cause it's non-negotiable. We are going to manifest this thing that we're working toward." But be aware, there's gonna be a part of you that's like, "I can't do that," you know? How can you take care of that part?

   13. MRMel Robbins16:00

       What's helpful in the way you just described that is that visualization feels like a very accessible, tactical tool. And as I was listening to you, especially talking about one foot on the gas and one foot on the brake, so relatable, manifestation all of a sudden seemed like this very necessary thing for you to do for yourself every day in modern life. Because there is so much-

   14. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten16:26

       Yeah

   15. MRMel Robbins16:26

       ... external noise from the world, from friends, from family, telling you who you should be, what you should be doing, where you should be by now. And manifesting, at least for me, i- is a very intentional daily practice for me to get clear about who I am, what I want, how I wanna feel, and where I'm actually going. And in a world that's constantly telling you not to be the person that you really feel internally you wanna be, it's vital, because it's the only way that you tune in to yourself, and you can hear yourself.

   16. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten17:04

       Yeah. I mean, there are two main ways to shift perspective. One of them is training. You repeat it to yourself over and over and over at- again. And practice means the combination of intention, setting an intention for what you want and what you're doing, attention, paying attention to it on purpose every day, and repetition, and that's what retrains the brain. When you have a clear vision of what you wanna do, where you wanna go, what is trying to come through you-

   17. MRMel Robbins17:43

       Mm-hmm

   18. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten17:44

       ... and this is personal, not scientific, how many of us start to have synchronicities and feelings that you're getting signs from the universe, and that somehow the universe is conspiring to help you? And sometimes, you know, I kind of like to imagine that there's, like, a, "We got a live one over here in sector five," like, "They've got their vision. They're going for it. Everybody get over there and try to help," right? Because you are trying to do something. And it... I, I think it has to be something that is serving humanity, that's serving the planet, serving all beings. I, I don't think that this works when you're trying to manifest something that's gonna harm others, or that's gonna cause more fear or constriction or division or hatred.

   19. MRMel Robbins18:24

       What is the difference between visualization versus a manifesting practice? Of training your mind-

   20. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten18:34

       Yeah

   21. MRMel Robbins18:35

       ... to be in alignment with the things that you wanna attract or create in your life.

   22. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten18:41

       I think it's a dance between effort and hard work and commitment and discipline and affirmation-

   23. MRMel Robbins18:50

       Yep

   24. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten18:50

       ... and staying focused on one hand, and this is gonna sound like the complete opposite, surrender, letting go, letting be, going with the river, not trying to boil the ocean, all of those phrases. And these two, even though they seem counter to each other, when you go back and forth between them and you navigate between them and you use both, that is really the pathway toward what we can call manifestation or creating the life that you want.

   25. MRMel Robbins19:20

       I, I'm kinda picking at this point because there are so many people around the world that are interested in having a daily practice, and I am somebody that has a daily manifestation practice. And I specifically think about the things that I want. I then pick up a pencil and I write them down. I write down five things every morning-

   26. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten19:44

       Mm

   27. MRMel Robbins19:44

       ... that I want to create in my life. And then I read them again, and I sit in my body and think about how I'm gonna feel as I'm doing the work to create those things. And time and time again, that practice of intentionally organizing my thoughts and mind from the mental to the physical of writing it, to the rehearsing of it, to the flooding my body with the feeling of what is it going to feel like when X happens?

   28. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten20:17

       Yeah.

   29. MRMel Robbins20:18

       What is it going to feel like when Y happens? And then I close my eyes, and I think about all the little... I see myself doing the annoying steps. Like, a, a simple example would be if you have on your bucket list climbing Mount Kilimanjaro or running a half marathon. Yes, write it down, but then when I close my eyes and think about it, I think about the, like, boring 6:00 AM training run when it's raining.

   30. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten20:51

       Right.
5. 25:19 – 31:58

   What to Do When You Feel Stuck

   1. MRMel Robbins25:20

      what is the first step to starting to use the practice of manifestation in their life to get unstuck?

   2. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten25:27

      Yeah. Well, here's one thing that I find very useful. This is a tool where you... If you can't do it inside yourself initially-

   3. MRMel Robbins25:36

      Mm-hmm

   4. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten25:37

      ... you can imagine someone who loves you tremendously, like really has your best interest at heart. This could be someone who's alive, it could be someone who's passed away, it could even be a fictional figure.

   5. MRMel Robbins25:51

      I'll volunteer. I'll be the fictional person-

   6. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten25:53

      There you go

   7. MRMel Robbins25:53

      ... in your mind or the-

   8. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten25:54

      Yeah

   9. MRMel Robbins25:54

      ... well, I guess I'm a real person.

   10. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten25:55

       Yeah. Imagine Mel.

   11. MRMel Robbins25:55

       But I could be the person-

   12. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten25:57

       Absolutely. 100%.

   13. MRMel Robbins25:57

       Yeah, what would Mel tell you?

   14. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten25:58

       Totally on your side, right?

   15. MRMel Robbins25:58

       What would Mel tell you is possible?

   16. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten26:00

       Yeah, so you are sitting there and you explain your whole situation to this person and ask them, "What do you see is possible? What do you see is possible for me?" And you'll be surprised at what you hear back from that person, because it's... it just kinda tricks your mind into getting out of the tyranny of your critical judging mind, and allowing this person who's a million percent behind you and believes in you, in your imagination, to tell you, "Here's what I see." And you can recognize, again, as we were saying, it's not gonna be harsh, it's not gonna be an argument, it's not gonna be a ton of questions, and it'll probably be something really short and pithy that you'll hear from this person, as well as feeling the love and the, the cheerleader in that person. Like, "I'm 100% behind you. This is what your next step is." That's one.

   17. MRMel Robbins26:56

       What does manifesting change about your life?

   18. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten27:01

       So when you decide that you are going to pursue a dream, and that becomes the orienting principle of your life, you become motivated in a different way.

   19. MRMel Robbins27:14

       Mm.

   20. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten27:14

       You have access to energy that is not coming from fear of consequences. It's not coming from your anxieties. It's not that you're being... Have you ever had that feeling where you're just pushing so hard that you're just running low on energy?

   21. MRMel Robbins27:33

       That was last week, but yes.

   22. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten27:35

       Well, yes. We have that, right? Even when you're driven by purpose.

   23. MRMel Robbins27:37

       Yes.

   24. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten27:37

       Even when you're driven by vision, you can have that. But there's overall a different sense of motivation-

   25. MRMel Robbins27:44

       Mm-hmm

   26. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten27:44

       ... energy, direction, momentum when you have that. It's more about what you're going toward than what you're going away from.

   27. MRMel Robbins27:51

       Mm.

   28. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten27:51

       Whenever you're trying to get away from something, there's kind of a mad dash and a scramble, and it's all defined by what you don't want. When it starts to become defined by where you're going and what you do want, then there's this sense of walking into the future with energy and with commitment. I like to say Martin Luther King Jr. did not say, "We have a problem." He said, "I have a dream," and he invited people into that dream, and more quickly than anyone thought, at least most, a lot of that dream has been realized. There's still a long way to go. That's what motivates people, is imagining a future that's different. And I think this is very important for those of you who are listening. When you criticize yourself, when you punish yourself, when you focus on what is not working and how you need to do it better and the weight you need to lose and the, you know, all the stuff, I would spend about 10 to 15% of your time accurately seeing what are the issues, what are the problems, and then the rest of your time on what are potential solutions, and what is my vision for the future should those solutions come to pass? What will it feel like? What will it look like? Where will I be? What colors will be around me? Who, what kind of people will be around me? What language will I be using toward myself or toward other people? How much further could I go with just that one change?

   29. MRMel Robbins29:24

       That just gave me a visual, speaking of imagination. 'Cause in periods in my life where I have been in utter survival mode, don't even know how I got through the day, young kids, can't pay the bills, so many of us have been there.

   30. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten29:42

       Mm.
6. 31:58 – 33:33

   Manifestation vs. Magical Thinking

   1. MRMel Robbins31:58

      and magical thinking?

   2. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten32:00

      Yeah. So magical thinking often has to do with the stuff that I want other people to do or the stuff that I want to have. It has to do with things I don't have any control over. I just want these things to appear in my life. And manifestation, as I understand it, is more about how do I want to show up.

   3. MRMel Robbins32:23

      Mm.

   4. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten32:23

      How do I want to be as I move into the future? I wanna be honest. I wanna be supportive. I wanna be empowering of other people. I wanna lift other people up with me. I want to be genuine. I wanna be authentic. I want to set boundaries. I want to have a different energy level. Those are things that I can actually do. And so manifestation, I think, the best use of it is to picture who and how you want to be and what results that might have. Because a lot of times when we think about things we want in the future, it's because we think they're gonna give us a sense of freedom or vitality or love or connection or worthwhileness, and they may, and it's good to move towards those. But the other thing you can do is flip it and say, "What could I do today to give myself a sense of those things that I think the future thing are gonna bring me?"

   5. MRMel Robbins33:21

      Mm.

   6. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten33:22

      What freedom can I bring into my life today? What vitality? What are the things that I could do right now that would bring me what I think that future thing is gonna give me?

   7. MRMel Robbins33:32

      What's

7. 33:33 – 44:04

   How Your Imagination Can Change Your Reality

   1. MRMel Robbins33:33

      a daily practice or routine the person who's listening right now can start to put all this into their life?

   2. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten33:43

      So when I-

   3. MRMel Robbins33:43

      Like one thing. Yeah

   4. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten33:44

      ... yeah. When I wake up in the morning, I do my meditation practice, and then I take myself through my day. I imagine it. I look into what am I going to do, how am I gonna get there, what am I gonna eat, what are the meetings I'm gonna have, where am I gonna be sitting? So that's that simulation form of imagination of just walking through the day, and then how do I need to be today? What do I want to bring to that? And then looking into something in my past, and when did I feel what I wanna bring in today?

   5. MRMel Robbins34:17

      Mm.

   6. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten34:17

      So if I wanna bring balance into today or emotion regulation, or I wanna bring a warrior spirit and some firm boundaries, or I wanna bring compassion and empathy, when did I last feel that way? Embody that completely, and then move into your day with that quality.

   7. MRMel Robbins34:36

      Dr. Vieten, I wanna take a step back because all the things that you've been teaching us about visualization and manifestation fall under the larger umbrella of your research around the science of imagination. So can you explain what exactly is imagination?

   8. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten34:56

      Imagination is the way that we simulate, reconfigure, and transcend reality, sometimes through visualization and oftentimes through other forms of imagination.

   9. MRMel Robbins35:10

      What do those words mean? What do you mean at simulate, reconfigure, and transcend reality?

   10. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten35:17

       Okay. So simulate is when I think about something in my mind, I bring it into my, my mind's eye. Let's talk about... Let's just think about your house right now. Imagining your house, when you open the door, when you walk into it, what rooms are in it, where's the kitchen, what do you love about it, what do you still wanna fix about it, what's in the yard. That's simulation imagination. You are like a copy machine. You're just trying to copy what things are like so that you can game things out. What am I gonna make for dinner tonight? What am I gonna say to my kid tonight? That is very important, like, us being able to simulate reality, and you and I are sitting here right now. As far as we know, there's nothing outside of this room. We're imagining. We're simulating all of it, and so it's very helpful to simulate.

   11. MRMel Robbins36:04

       I think a lot of us simulate negatively.

   12. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten36:07

       Right.

   13. MRMel Robbins36:07

       We wake up, we think about the day ahead, we start bracing, we start thinking about what's gonna go wrong or the thing we're dreading, and you're saying that you can first start training yourself to simulate having a good day or showing up a certain way.

   14. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten36:22

       Right.

   15. MRMel Robbins36:23

       And then the second thing you said was reconfigure. Now what am I doing?

   16. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten36:26

       Reconfigure.

   17. MRMel Robbins36:27

       Yes.

   18. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten36:27

       So now what you can do is say, "I know what it's probably going to be like, but- I know I'm gonna have some hard meetings in the morning, and I know I'm gonna have another tricky situation in the afternoon that I have to face. What would make me feel vital? You know what I'm gonna do? I am gonna go out and get my favorite sushi. I'm just gonna go out, get it, bring it back, sit with a cup of tea, eat the sushi, and know that that is me taking care of myself. I need a little bit of extra care today. So you're adding something-

   19. MRMel Robbins37:02

       Hmm

   20. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten37:02

       ... to the reality. You're adding something to what you're imagining. Another way of reconfiguring goes a lot further than that, and it's reconfiguring your story about who you are and how you wanna be.

   21. MRMel Robbins37:15

       The third part you said was transcending.

   22. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten37:17

       So transcending is the most fun, which is, what can I do that's completely outside of what I think is possible? I have a client who went through the unimaginable, which is that she lost her son to an overdose, and this was quite a long time ago. And she has suffered since then from extreme guilt, because she also had an addiction at the time, and she's sure that her addiction caused his addiction, and that his overdose was completely on her shoulders.

   23. MRMel Robbins37:53

       Wow.

   24. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten37:53

       And so this was really, really entrenched, and she felt like punishing herself was the right thing to do. And so as we worked together for a long time, we started to change the story into we both suffered from the disease of addiction, and it went far back in their family, totally genetic. And we started turning it into a story where our family and my ancestors, it's almost like we live in a village, and every now and then a dragon comes in and breathes fire and lays waste to the land. We lose people. People die. It destroys things. But that has been happening in my family for many, many generations. And the dragon came while I was there with my son, and it got me, and we lost him. And so now what I do in my life, instead of punishing myself, is I help other people who are facing the unimaginable-

   25. MRMel Robbins38:53

       Hmm

   26. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten38:53

       ... because I've been through it, and I can be by their side while they go through it. Totally different story. The dragon metaphor really, really helped. And so s- when we talk about transcending reality, it's not always about going into a complete la-la land. It's about finding a story that's big enough to match what's actually happening in your life and help you transcend that and have it be different for... Not, not that the situation was different, but the way you look at it is different.

   27. MRMel Robbins39:26

       Well, it's a super helpful image, especially for anybody who's trying to break generational patterns.

   28. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten39:32

       Yeah.

   29. MRMel Robbins39:33

       Um, why is the skill of imagination critical to creating a better life?

   30. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten39:42

       Well, the only thing that has ever led to inventions or breakthroughs or things that have changed the world, both individuals and in our society, like cell phones or fi- uh, electricity or-
8. 44:04 – 54:16

   Use This Tool to Get Unstuck

   1. MRMel Robbins44:04

      stuck-

   2. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten44:04

      Mm

   3. MRMel Robbins44:05

      ... and you feel that there's a lot of evidence that this is all that there is, and that this is what your life is, and what it's always gonna feel like, uh, Dr. Vieten, what do you wanna say to the person who really believes that the highest rung of what's possible in your life is where you are?

   4. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten44:27

      When we feel stuck, it's often accompanied by the feeling of, "I don't know what to do. I don't know what's next. I don't... I got nothing." And the linear, logical, ego mind really hates that, does not like it. But there's another part of us that when we are in a place of, "I don't know. I have no idea what to do," imagination does like that. And so you've probably seen the book by Pema Chodron, Un- Comfortable with Uncertainty. And, uh, I had a teacher that was very important to me, Angela Sirian, who would say, "Spend more time in the land of I don't know."

   5. MRMel Robbins45:10

      But I don't wanna be in that land 'cause I don't like feeling [laughs] like I don't know.

   6. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten45:14

      Right? So-

   7. MRMel Robbins45:15

      Yes

   8. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten45:15

      ... spend some time there. But also, I teach a workshop called The Next You, and we take people to meet their future selves.

   9. MRMel Robbins45:25

      How do you do that?

   10. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten45:26

       Right. So first what you do is get yourself into a state, whether it's through meditation or listening to music or being in nature, where you're really open-minded and kinda let go of some of the, you know, busyness and all that stuff. So you might do some breathing for five or 10 minutes. And then what we want you to do is five years, 10 years, 15 years into the future, imagine that you are at your front door and you are about to meet the future you that has already embodied a lot of the qualities and goals and accomplishments that you hope to do. Now, I wouldn't get too locked down on exactly what it is, because if you put an overlay on it ahead of time, you're gonna be kind of controlling it too much.

   11. MRMel Robbins46:15

       Okay.

   12. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten46:16

       So instead of saying, "Well, she's got a mansion and she has a Jaguar," you just say, "This is someone who feels the way that I think the mansion and Jaguar would give me. This is someone who feels free. They have a lot of spare time. They feel balanced. They feel vital. They feel healthy. They have positive relationships," whatever your goals are, right? Whatever your goals for how you want to be are. Open the door, see your future self, and then you can ask them some questions. "What is the one thing more than any other thing that you did to get to... get you to where you are today?"

   13. MRMel Robbins46:55

       Hmm.

   14. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten46:56

       And you'll be surprised at what they answer. You know, they'll give you some direction. The great thing is you don't have to do this once. You can actually have that future self be your ally, your best friend, your golf caddy, you know, sort of like, "Hey, I wouldn't do that. That's gonna get you into a sand trap." Like, they can become a coach for you as you move into your future. It can become a, sort of a true north on the compass, and it can help you make decisions now, like, "Is this taking me closer to my future self or further away-

   15. MRMel Robbins47:28

       Hmm

   16. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten47:28

       ... from my future self?" And people might think that sounds, I don't know, you know, frou-frou or woo-woo or something like that, right? But we know from the science that when people imagine their futures, they act differently. They show up differently. They make different decisions. And so there's very interesting data showing, like, college students, and they, they have them meet their future self. And they actually take a photo of them, and they age the photo. And so they see themselves, what they might look like when they're older, and then they ask them, you know, "Do you wanna start a savings account for the future?" And the kids who saw their future selves wanna save more money for the future.

   17. MRMel Robbins48:13

       What's happening in your brain when you are using the skill of imagination to visualize a whole different reality?

   18. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten48:24

       The most important thing about what's happening in the brain when you are imagining is that the brain differentiates much less than you might think between something that actually happens and something you imagine. So when you imagine seeing something, your visual cortex lights up. When you imagine hearing something, your auditory cortex lights up.

   19. MRMel Robbins48:45

       Hmm.

   20. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten48:45

       When you imagine moving, your motor cortex lights up. And so when you imagine something, you are actually giving your brain the signal that in a way it's happened. The great tennis player, Billie Jean King, said w- before she went to sleep, she would just imagine the ball coming at her and every single angle and how she would hit it. And so what we know from research is that athletes who imagine practicing basketball game, soccer game, they have better performance than athletes who don't imagine. And so when you add imagination to your rehearsal for life, you're giving your brain the signal, "I'm still training. Even though I'm just sitting here next to my window drinking my tea in my pajamas, I'm still practicing in my imagination." And so those parts of your brain are lighting up. The other things that are happening in your brain is if you imagine something that is very scary or threatening or what might go wrong or the worst, you're releasing cortisol. You're-

   21. MRMel Robbins49:52

       Hmm

   22. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten49:52

       ... the same way you would if it happened. May- not quite the same, right? A lit- it, it approaches it. But if you're imagining the worst all day, every day, you are giving your brain the signal that those things are happening. There's this great quote that I think comes initially from Seneca, but it's attributed to Mark Twain, and it's like, "I've experienced many terrible things, most of which have never happened." And so even though they haven't happened, you're still giving your body the same stress signals as if they did happen.

   23. MRMel Robbins50:25

       Let's apply this. So let's say that, uh, the person listening is, uh, bracing all day long because they think they're gonna get laid off, or they're bracing because they're worried that they're gonna never meet somebody and fall in love again.

   24. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten50:43

       Right.

   25. MRMel Robbins50:44

       And so they're imagining a future state, right? Because if you are driving to your job today, you still have it.

   26. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten50:52

       Hmm.

   27. MRMel Robbins50:53

       And so I take it, if you have trained yourself to be somebody that worries, "What if this? What if that? This is gonna go wrong. What if this person thinks that?" That's evidence that you could train yourself to imagine in the positive.

   28. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten51:05

       That's right.

   29. MRMel Robbins51:06

       And what changes about your life when you get very serious about training yourself to imagine in the positive?

   30. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten51:13

       Well, I mean, my personal experience is that I have experienced maladaptive imagination. There was a time in my life where I had everything I wanted. I had a beautiful place to live. I had an incredible job, I mean, absolutely incredible. There was a lot of pressure, and I did go through a divorce, and so when the stress increased a lot, I started drinking very heavily. And at that point, I started to tell myself, "It's gonna be okay as long as you don't ever tell anyone-
9. 54:16 – 1:11:40

   How to Break Free From Your Current Reality

   1. MRMel Robbins54:16

      in your blockbuster bestseller, Imagine That. It's in the introduction, and I want to read to you from your book and have you dig a little deeper into the power of imagination. You say that your primary goal with your work, Dr. Vieten, is "to help people re-enchant their lives, to re-enliven their world, spark new hope, and reveal new possibilities through the science and practice of imagination. To help you escape the confines of your current reality tunnel and envision hopeful futures while experiencing more awe, wonder, and the ability to chart a new course for yourself and society because the antidote to despair isn't just hope." It's the skill to generate hope. So the first thing I wanted to ask you after reading that is what is a reality tunnel, and how do I know I'm in one?

   2. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten55:21

      Right, right. So this is a concept that came up in the '60s, and this was when consciousness was starting to explode, and people were doing psychedelics, and this was like Timothy Leary and his colleagues were like, "Hey, man, you're stuck in a reality tunnel." So it sounds kinda like, "Dude," right?

   3. MRMel Robbins55:37

      [laughs]

   4. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten55:38

      But it's true. Like, we are actually stuck in a reality tunnel, and all of us have our own reality tunnel, what we think is real, what we think is possible, what we think is impossible. And part of our job is to break free from these limited ideas about reality, open up our aperture, and say, you know, if I'm stuck in a relationship and I'm like should I stay, should I go? Should I stay? Should I go? Should I stay? Or a job, let's say. It's only two choices, stay or go. The truth is there's probably 10, 15, 20, 25 possible choices that you could make to break out of that tennis match inside of your mind, and I see people who have been in this tennis match for decades, for years, for months. And so one of the practices they can try is to sit down and write 50 possibilities, and don't make them practical necessarily. Some of them can be practical, but some of them can be completely impractical. Like, I'm gonna open a cozy bookshop in Scotland. I'm outta here.

   5. MRMel Robbins56:40

      Yeah.

   6. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten56:40

      Or I'm going to join the circus. Like, whatever it is, right? Just don't edit. Write them all down. And what happens then is that when you start to look at all 50, you might notice every single one of them had an element of travel in it. Why, why is that? I guess I, I wanna travel.

   7. MRMel Robbins56:58

      Or I wanna escape this person-

   8. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten56:59

      Sure, right

   9. MRMel Robbins56:59

      ... and this relationship, so traveling means I'm somewhere else.

   10. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten57:03

       Yeah, yeah. But let's say... So maybe you do, right?

   11. MRMel Robbins57:05

       Yeah.

   12. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten57:05

       Maybe you say, "Hey, you know what? I'm outta here." Or maybe you say, "I don't wanna be out of here. I wanna work on this. I got three kids. I'm not leaving. But you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna travel for a month every year."

   13. MRMel Robbins57:17

       Mm.

   14. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten57:17

       "I'm gonna go with my girlfriends, and that is gonna change my life." That's practical. That's possible for some people, right? Maybe it's a week. Maybe you just say, "I'm not taking a vacation with my family. I'm taking a vacation with my girlfriends." There are small things that are real that can come out of those big, crazy 50 possibilities that you didn't notice before.

   15. MRMel Robbins57:36

       Well, going back to the very beginning, where we talked about the fact that 70% of the people who listen to this show around the world feel like they're reacting to life, what I love about what you're teaching us is so many of us are looking outside of ourselves for the signals when transformation is an inside activity.

   16. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten57:57

       Right.

   17. MRMel Robbins57:57

       And these tools help you turn inward and go deeper inward into your subconscious, into your spirit, into your heart, into the things that you can't explain, and tap into those signals for guidance rather than constantly looking outside yourself for them. You are one of the most cited researchers alive on the conscious mind. What is consciousness?

   18. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten58:25

       Consciousness is what you experience, what you believe, what you intend, your intuition, your inner life. It's, you know, at the very basic level, just everything you're aware of.

   19. MRMel Robbins58:39

       Mm.

   20. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten58:39

       But then there's sort of a bigger C consciousness where it's what you don't even know that you're assuming, believing, intending. And so one of the things about becoming more conscious is to start to pay attention to what are all of my beliefs? What are my values? What are my commitments? What's inside of me? How do I bring my consciousness into the world every day? And so I had, uh, I worked at the Institute of Noetic Sciences for about 18 years, and this was founded by Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell, who was the sixth man to walk on the Moon. And when he was on his way back to Earth from space, he's viewing the Earth and the stars and the sun and the moon, and he had this epiphany where he recognized that my consciousness isn't just mine, but I'm actually connected to the molecules that make up my body are the same as the ones in the stars, and in the space capsule, and the sun, and the Earth, and there's this deeper sense of interconnectedness. So there is an outer world, and we all know what that is. This table, the lights, the walls, things that are real. Then there's an inner world.

   21. MRMel Robbins59:57

       Mm.

   22. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten59:57

       And that inner world is also real. It's our experience. It's what we perceive. It's what we believe. It's what we intend. It's our whole worldview. How do we view things? And that consciousness affects our bodies and our brains, our hormones, our neurotransmitters, the way our brain is built, the way we behave in the world.

   23. MRMel Robbins1:00:25

       What does it mean, though, to become more conscious in your everyday life?

   24. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten1:00:30

       Becoming more conscious in your everyday life means that you are not automatic as much. You are working as you move through your life with intention, with attention. You are, instead of just being kind of a pinball in a pinball machine, deciding that I want to bring a certain intention to this meeting-

   25. MRMel Robbins1:00:54

       Mm

   26. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten1:00:54

       ... that I'm about to have. I want to bring in, uh, a direction that we can go together, and I want to elicit this from other people.

   27. MRMel Robbins1:01:04

       How do you tap into the unconscious mind?

   28. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten1:01:08

       Well, it's interesting. When I started to do a lot of work on imagination, I went out to the desert in Anza-Borrego, and it's this gorgeous desert landscape, and hiked to this top of this mountain. And- At that point, I had this 360-degree view of everything, and I asked what I guess I would call the spirits, but let's just call it the universe, or other people might call it something different. It's like, "What does the world need to know about imagination?" And the answer was immediate. It was, "Tell them it's the place where we can most easily talk to them." And I love that because I feel like there is an inner wisdom, a deep inner wisdom that each one of us holds, that's not accessible by typical linear, logical thinking. It's accessible through imagination. And as we practice imagination more purposefully, as we create the conditions in our lives where imagination is more welcome to spontaneously arise, we start to get messages from that deeper inner self that are meaningful, that are influential, that are outside the box, and that allow us to make fundamental shifts in the way that we view the world, and therefore, in the way we show up in the world. And that changes everything.

   29. MRMel Robbins1:02:33

       All right. So do you have a way that you could show me what experiencing this is like?

   30. CVDr. Cassandra Vieten1:02:39

       Yeah. So actually, we have created a number of virtual reality experiences for people. Especially, it's great for people who don't have a ton of visualization ability-

Episode duration: 1:11:40