You Learn This Too Late: Understanding This Will Change the Way You Look at Your Relationships

Dr. Aliza Pressman 0:00 (instrumental music plays) How we were parented-

Mel Robbins 0:01 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 0:02 ... how we grew, how we came to be who we are, and how we're growing others is kind of at the center of everything.

Mel Robbins 0:08 What if you realize, "My God, I've made a lot of mistakes. Like, I was the parent that was indifferent or cold or distracted, or I had a lot of anger, or I really screwed up the divorce." What would you tell somebody who feels like they're failing at parenting right now?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 0:23 I would say...

Mel Robbins 0:25 Wow. I think that's a hard pill for a lot of parents to swallow. (cash register dings) Dr. Aliza Pressman, she's one of the world's most respected developmental psychologists. She has a New York Times best-selling book called The 5 Principles of Parenting: Your Essential Guide to Raising Good Humans. Today, Dr. Pressman is here to lay out the science behind the parenting mistakes most of us don't even realize we're making. Dr. Pressman is gonna give you so much clarity about what you've experienced and, more importantly, where you can go from here. What's the biggest myth parents believe about raising, quote, "healthy, resilient kids?"

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:03 The biggest myth is that...

Mel Robbins 1:06 Uh, my mouth is hanging open-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:07 (laughs) .

Mel Robbins 1:07 ... so I'm gonna close it for a second. How does wanting the best for your kids cause anxiety?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:11 I should say this.

Mel Robbins 1:12 Wow, I've never heard that before. After a divorce, how long should you wait before you introduce who you're dating to your kids?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:20 The research suggests-

Mel Robbins 1:21 Dr. Pressman, what is the best parenting advice you've ever heard?

Mel Robbins 1:28 (clock ticking) Dr. Aliza Pressman, welcome to The Mel Robbins Podcast.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:35 Thank you for having me.

Mel Robbins 1:36 Thank you for coming to Boston. Thank you for being here. Uh, you know, I was on the Today Show set, and Hoda pulled me aside and said, "My favorite parenting expert is Dr. Pressman. You have to get her on."

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:49 (laughs) .

Mel Robbins 1:49 And so I was like, "Hoda, I'm getting her on."

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:52 Ah.

Mel Robbins 1:52 So, welcome.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:53 Thank you, Hoda.

Mel Robbins 1:55 (laughs) .

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:55 I love her.

Mel Robbins 1:56 I do too. I do too. I'm really excited to learn from you, and I'd love to start by having you tell the person who's listening right now what they could experience in their life that could be different if they take everything that you are about to teach us today, uh, and they apply it to their life. How could their life change?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 2:15 How we were parented-

Mel Robbins 2:17 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 2:17 ... how we grew, how we came to be who we are, and how we're growing others is kind of at the center of everything, in my view. And I think that the science of parent- of the parent-child relationship is extraordinary, and it's inspiring, and it is overwhelmingly easier to get it, like, quote unquote right, and I think that that is game-changing, that there's- there's stuff that you can do that will change the relationships in your life, and that they're very easy to take on. There's so much information out there about how to do every single thing, but the- the science itself is quite generous with parents, is such a beautiful experience. Like, once you really buy into that, you have actionable steps that you can take that can be game-changing in your relationships, but they're not, like, this overwhelming, unattainable goal.

Mel Robbins 3:15 There was so much that you just said in that-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 3:17 (laughs) .

Mel Robbins 3:17 ... I wanna try to unpack a couple things, that struck me. The first one was that you said that there's just simple things to do that the science supports that helps you get parenting largely right.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 3:31 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 3:32 I mean, that's refreshing-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 3:34 (laughs) .

Mel Robbins 3:34 ... 'cause I feel like I royally screwed up my children. Like I- they- the- the- the- I mean, I'm serious.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 3:39 Oh, yeah.

Mel Robbins 3:39 Like, I- I did not know... I, the person that I am today at 56, not the person I was when I was 29, 30, and 34 when I had my kids.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 3:49 Of course.

Mel Robbins 3:50 And so, I think that is extremely positive and hopeful and, especially in today's world where everything s- feels very overwhelming, to know that it's kinda simple, and there are simple things you can do to get it largely right. I was also drawn in when you talked about the fact that we were all littles at once. We were all little kids. We've all been parented. Whether your opinion about how you were parented is that your parents did a great job or that your parents really screwed things up, we all have things that we wish we could change.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 4:25 Yep.

Mel Robbins 4:26 And what can you get out of this conversation and what you're about to teach us today if, let's say, you are, you know, in your early 20s or you're a teenager and you haven't had kids yet, or you don't know if you wanna have kids-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 4:40 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 4:40 ... or you didn't have kids?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 4:42 I mean, the thing is, is that if we can reflect on our experience being raised, like-

Mel Robbins 4:48 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 4:48 ... our experience being parented and cared for and loved, we can then make choices about how we love and how we experience being loved by everyone in our lives. So, it affects your romantic relationships. It affects how you connect with people, who you choose to connect with, what feels like home to you.

Mel Robbins 5:06 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 5:07 We're all drawn to what feels like home, and if what feels like home was not an acceptable environment, that doesn't mean that we're gonna be like, "Well, I don't want that experience again." Our whole nervous system wants that experience again, unless you're reflective about it and you make more intentional choices. So, I think a 20-something-year-old thinking about this is exactly who can think about this and benefit. And then, of course, going into parenting and that whole transition to parenthood, if we... Like so many of us are so afraid that we're gonna relive the mistakes-

Mel Robbins 5:43 Hm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 5:43 ... that there's this generational trauma, that there are these cycles that we aren't going to break. But the thing is, is that the very fact that you're reflecting on that means you've already broken that cycle. And to me, that is just so important. It's- the work is this.

Mel Robbins 6:02 Uh, my mouth is hanging open, so-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 6:03 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 6:04 ... I'm gonna close it for a second because you said, "The very fact that you may be worried about repeating the negative things that happened to you when you were a little kid, or passing on the traumas from past generations, the fact that you're even reflecting on it shows that you've already broken it."

Dr. Aliza Pressman 6:28 Yep.

Mel Robbins 6:28 Because, because why?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 6:30 Because much of this challenge is just being aware of it. Once you're aware of something, you can't not change your behavior. You might not change it all the time. It might be just a tiny little change, but it's enough of a change that you've changed this cycle. There's a break in it. Now, that doesn't mean that you're off the hook. Like, we still have to work. We still have to be intentional. It's much easier to sort of forget things and not think about it and dissociate (laughs) and just move along. But every time you take a pause to reflect, you are breaking that cycle, and your behavior will change. It's a tweak, it's a tiny little thing, but what I think is so cool about this whole science is it doesn't require this, like, gargantuan effort. It's, like, the small stuff-

Mel Robbins 7:27 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 7:27 ... and it really makes a difference.

Mel Robbins 7:29 In your incredible book, The Five Principles of Parenting, you do break down this whole, like-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 7:36 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 7:36 ... huge body of science and research into five basic principles, and we're gonna get into them in a deeper level, but can you just quickly break down what the five principles are?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 7:46 Okay. It starts with relationship. By the way, I picked R words, not scientifically, just like, it's hard enough to remember anything, so all R words, but all from the science. Relationship, which is this.

Mel Robbins 8:01 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 8:02 It's just the connection between people. You might hear it as, um, attunement, connection, anything that is attachment, all of those things are under this umbrella of relationship, and relationship is kind of everything.

Mel Robbins 8:14 Okay.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 8:15 And then reflection, which we talked about. Reflection is, I think, an unsung hero of strong parenting (laughs) because it's, it feels light. It feels like weight. So just thinking about something and, and really understanding it is moving the needle in my parenting?

Mel Robbins 8:34 Hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 8:34 Yes, it is. And it allows you to pause, which brings you to regulation. So relationship, reflection, regulation. That is sort of understanding that you have, um, some control over your emotions, your thoughts, your actions, and they are goal-oriented, and when you regulate, you also are that self-regulation, but that is co-regulating with your young little people in your life because we borrow the nervous systems of our caregivers.

Mel Robbins 9:08 Okay.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 9:08 And so if you're trying to develop a strong, robust nervous system, you need one around you that has capacity. And then so we've got relationship with reflection, regulation, and then we need rules, and rules are really, really important for safety. So rules are boundaries and limits, and when you have boundaries and limits around the safety of yourself and the safety of others around you, so it's not just about protecting your child, but also there are gonna be people in this world, and they're moving through this world. How can they hold dear the emotional safety and physical safety of others while holding that for themselves?

Mel Robbins 9:50 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 9:51 And then finally repair for when you screw it all up, which you will. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 9:55 (laughs)

Dr. Aliza Pressman 9:55 And we do over and over, and the research on repair is, it's like the deepest breath of relief because you cannot have a close relationship without repair and you can't repair without screwing up.

Mel Robbins 10:08 Now if you just heard those five principles of parenting and you reflect upon your own experience of being a child-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 10:15 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 10:15 ... or being the child of a parent now regardless of how old you are, and you thought to yourself, "I didn't check any of those boxes when I thought about my own experience," is there good news here?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 10:28 Oh, there's such good news. These are, relationships are dynamic. Everything about this is dynamic, and so it's like a moving process. And we are born as parents when our children are born. So-

Mel Robbins 10:41 Oh wait, we are born-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 10:42 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 10:42 ... as parents when our children are born?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 10:44 Yeah. So we're, of course we're new at it. Of course we're messing up all the time because we're babies. We're baby parents. And so of course now when you have three young adults, you have a wisdom and a different parenting style because you've grown. And I think if our, our kids didn't see that-

Mel Robbins 11:05 Hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 11:06 ... they would not have much hope that they get to make mistakes and grow and still be loved and be worthy. So I think if somebody said, "I've done none of this," and by the way, I don't believe that because you're here. Like, if you were like, "Ah, I wanna listen to this episode," you're curious about this-

Mel Robbins 11:24 Yeah.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 11:25 ... which, which means there's so much hope. And also repair has no expiration date.

Mel Robbins 11:31 So at any time, you can use the principles to either make the relationship better-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 11:38 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 11:39 ... in terms of with your own parents if they're still here, or even if they've passed on, you can probably do the work-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 11:45 Yes.

Mel Robbins 11:45 ... to, like, really understand and reflect, and you can do the work with yourself to understand yourself better based on your experience of being parented by your folks.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 11:55 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 11:55 And if you are a parent, these are tools that you can use to be a better or more effective, or what would the word be that you would use?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 12:04 It's funny, as you're, like, saying that, I...I think we use language around parenting that just pulls at a thread for people.

Mel Robbins 12:12 Uh-huh.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 12:12 Because it's so vulnerable, and it's just like, so am I a better parent? Am I the best parent? Am I a perfect parent? I can't be any of those things, but I can, I think it's like, is that word useful because do we wanna be effective? Is that it? I mean, you do when you're trying to get stuff done.

Mel Robbins 12:29 I've never thought about-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 12:29 (laughs) .

Mel Robbins 12:30 ... the actual adjective.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 12:32 It's really hard to find one, but I like to think of, I just like to think we want to be good enough parents, that's good old Dr. Winnicott said that in a, you know, a century ago. And I think we forgot that good enough is actually, a good enough parent is the better parent.

Mel Robbins 12:53 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 12:53 The perfect parent is not helpful. Like, we, it's hard, especially for women. You don't take something on as important as parenting without aiming for perfection. That would be counterintuitive. Like, what? I, of course I'm gonna try to get this as right as possible. The minute that you start to realize that that's not how humans operate, that being raised by someone perfect would put the child in a position to feel that that's attainable, and that pressure is enormous and burdensome. So I think once you start to realize, oh, good enough is actually better for our children than perfect is, and it's more attainable for us so we can actually feel like we're the parents we wanna be.

Mel Robbins 13:44 And good enough is a term that's been around for 100 years?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 13:46 Yep.

Mel Robbins 13:47 Who coined this?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 13:48 Donald Winnicott.

Mel Robbins 13:49 Okay.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 13:49 And he said, he had a, uh, it was the good enough mother.

Mel Robbins 13:53 Okay.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 13:53 And it sounds like, like I remember in graduate school being like, "Please, like, I'm not gonna be a good enough mother. I think I can aim for a little bit higher."

Mel Robbins 14:02 Yeah. Well, if my kids said-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 14:04 (laughs) .

Mel Robbins 14:04 ... "Hey, how was your mom?" And I heard my kids go, "Ah, she was good enough," (laughs) I mean, I'd be like-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 14:10 Oh. Thanks a lot.

Mel Robbins 14:11 Yeah. Give me everything I gave you back.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 14:13 Right.

Mel Robbins 14:13 What do you mean I was good enough?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 14:14 Right. And I think if you translate how good it feels, like the words good enough, the words like okay, like, those don't translate to women-

Mel Robbins 14:25 No.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 14:25 ... very well.

Mel Robbins 14:26 No.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 14:26 They feel so shitty.

Mel Robbins 14:27 Yes. It feels like I failed.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 14:28 It feels like you failed, but once you realize how unburdened would you feel if you are worthy as a good enough mother instead of, like, my mother was perfect, so I have to be perfect. Like, that, that is such a burden. So it is necessary, if you really wanted to be the perfect mother, you would have to show mistakes over and over again to give that gift to your kids.

Mel Robbins 14:56 What does that mean kind of in the research?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 14:59 Okay. So in the research, it means you have a close connected relationship more often than not. So if more often than not you get relationship reflection, regulation, and rules going, you have all the rest of the time for repair. And I, I know this is gonna sound hokey, but when you lift weights, you tear tiny muscles in order to get stronger. You have to have tiny tears in that relationship. You have to have discord in order to have repair.

Mel Robbins 15:29 Huh.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 15:29 Like, that, there would be no opportunity for repair without it. And there is not a strong relationship without repair.

Mel Robbins 15:37 Huh.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 15:38 So it's, like, a necessary part of this gig is to keep making mistakes.

Mel Robbins 15:44 Well, that part I'm getting right consistently.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 15:46 (laughs) .

Mel Robbins 15:47 Um...

Dr. Aliza Pressman 15:47 Right. And I got that down. My kids are like, "You, (laughs) you've got self-compassion and repair down, mom. We get it."

Mel Robbins 15:54 (laughs) .

Dr. Aliza Pressman 15:55 (laughs) .

Mel Robbins 15:55 So Dr. Pressman, what is the best parenting advice you've ever heard?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 16:02 All feelings are welcome. All behaviors are not. That's it. Like, if you were sitting there trying to figure out what to do whether it's a tantrum from a toddler or whether or not your, you know, teenager just went way too far when they stole the car-

Mel Robbins 16:20 Hm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 16:20 ... because they desperately wanted to go to the party but you said no, whatever it is, the feelings that are underneath it are welcome. There's no wrong feelings. We are allowed and will feel how we feel, and it's really urgent that we know that we're allowed to have whatever feelings we have. But then we still get to say the behaviors are not all welcome. That is not okay to do, to steal the car. It's okay to feel the feelings when you're tantruming, but it's not okay to clock your brother over the head.

Mel Robbins 16:51 Hm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 16:51 When I think about all feelings are welcome, I think about when my daughter said to me, she was four years old, she came to me and she was so upset. She's 18 now, so I feel like it's fine for me to say this. She said, "I think God's gonna be really mad at me." Now, I don't know where she even got that whole thing, but I said, "Tell me why?" And she said, "Because I had this horrible thought about my sister." And I was like, "Oh my gosh. So what did you do?" And she said, "I thought about it." And what she thought was just how terrible her sister was for breaking something. And I said to her, "Oh, sweetheart. You get to feel and think about anything, and we all have thoughts that we would not like other people to know and feelings that we would not like other people to know. But how you act is the thing that you have to pay attention to."

Mel Robbins 17:47 Hm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 17:47 But just feeling those feelings, that is just part of being a person. And she was so relieved. And it was so sad. Like, a little four-year-old didn't know that you're allowed to, like, think, "I hate you." And so I just think about, like, if you can grow up knowing that you're allowed to feel however you wanna feel, how many times have you said, like, "I should be grateful"?I'm gonna stop thinking this way, or I'm gonna stop feeling this way. And you, you don't even give yourself the space to have all the feelings that people have. So I want every kid and every adult to be like, "Oh, I'm, all feelings are welcome." But then, yeah, we don't get to do, just 'cause we feel a certain way (laughs) doesn't mean we get to act a certain way.

Mel Robbins 18:27 Well, that's the first thing I'm taking away from this 'cause I-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 18:30 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 18:30 ... I immediate... No, I'm, I'm telling you that right now because I think that's something every one of us needs to do for ourselves and also in our adult relationships.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 18:37 100%. Like, none of this is really about parenting if we're honest. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 18:41 Well, I'm, I'm, I'm literally thinking about it in a work context.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 18:44 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 18:45 That your feelings about things are welcome, but the behavior is not.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 18:51 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 18:51 I'm thinking about it with issues with parents or family members that are adults.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 18:56 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 18:56 Your feelings are welcome, and they're valid. How you are acting is not.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 19:01 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 19:01 And it's such a helpful kind of hug with a punch. I kinda like it.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 19:06 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 19:06 Like, I, no, I, but, but like, for me because I just tend to be the kinda person that wants to make everybody okay.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 19:13 Feel okay.

Mel Robbins 19:13 Even with the let them theory. Even with let them, I still feel drawn toward over-repairing everything on behalf of everybody else.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 19:23 Let them is the same thing as all feelings are welcome. All behaviors are not.

Mel Robbins 19:28 How so?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 19:28 Because you're letting people feel and be who they are.

Mel Robbins 19:34 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 19:34 But your boundary is set.

Mel Robbins 19:37 The let me part.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 19:38 Yeah. So the-

Mel Robbins 19:38 That's when you say, "Let me tell you that your behavior's not welcome."

Dr. Aliza Pressman 19:40 Exactly. And I think we have over-corrected because we had so little sensitivity of care and so little-

Mel Robbins 19:47 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 19:48 ... like, patience for how people feel. But we for sure have over-corrected to the point where if you're a sensitive, loving person, you're like, "Okay, I, I guess they were feeling really angry, so I'm not gonna, you know, like, say anything about the fact that they just, like, completely destroyed whatever. Whatever was in their path because of those feelings."

Mel Robbins 20:10 Right.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 20:11 And so, I want us to sort of come back from that over-correction.

Mel Robbins 20:15 That's incredible. So what's the worst parenting advice, Dr. Pressman?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 20:19 (laughs) Of course, we want our kids to be happy, but I guess the worst thing is when you're like, "What, nothing matters except that your kids are happy." And so you invest in in-that-moment happiness, in that moment really understanding what they want, not what they need, but what they want to be happy. And so there is no sense of safety and boundaries, and those rules do not exist. And it actually causes a lot of anxiety.

Mel Robbins 20:48 How does that, how does wanting the best for your kids cause anxiety? Why is that bad parenting advice?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 20:53 I should say this. Of course, you're gonna want everything to go right for your kids, but in your actions, if you're clearing the path completely, and it's like you're trying to control the weather, and how does somebody learn how to put on a raincoat and to put on their boots and to put on their coat? Because they looked outside, and they were like, "Oh, it's snowing, it's raining. I know how to handle this." If instead, it's like somebody was like, "No, no, no, I don't want you to experience any of that." And so, it's this investment in long-term life happiness.

Mel Robbins 21:30 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 21:31 And also, the happy thing is weird because nobody's happy all the time. And so, if you're constantly trying to make sure, like how many of us have experienced somebody saying like, "Oh, no, no, I want you to be happy. What can I do to make you happy right now?" When you're not gonna be happy right now. Like, you're going through something or-

Mel Robbins 21:50 Yeah, when somebody does that with me and I'm going through it, I'm like, "Stop asking me."

Dr. Aliza Pressman 21:52 Right. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 21:53 (laughs) Like, literally.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 21:53 Like, that is so annoying.

Mel Robbins 21:55 (laughs) Yeah.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 21:56 So if, if we're chasing the happy instead of, like, doing our thing, relationship, reflection, regulation, rules, repair-

Mel Robbins 22:05 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 22:05 ... or even shorter, all feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not, we're, we're trying to create like a greenhouse for these beautiful flowers to bloom, but then they cannot exist otherwise.

Mel Robbins 22:18 So if the perspective of I just want my kids to be happy or I just want the best for my kids is the wrong focus, what would you rather we say?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 22:28 I'd rather we say, "I want to raise the child I have in the environment that helps them thrive by building skills." Just by building skills, and by doing the things in my, on my end, like-

Mel Robbins 22:42 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 22:42 ... cleaning my side, because we can't control our kids, but we can be the, this sort of presence that more often than not is available, loves them for exactly who they are, and sets appropriate limits and boundaries, and makes repairs when necessary. But we're giving them tools not just by actually giving them tools, and we can certainly talk about that, but by having those tools. Like, that's the best gift.

Mel Robbins 23:09 So it starts

Mel Robbins 23:10 with you?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 23:10 It always starts with us.

Mel Robbins 23:12 How much do early experiences truly-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 23:15 (sighs)

Mel Robbins 23:15 ... shape you? Like, I mean, it, like, if you blew it during the early years or your parents were horrendous, like, are you screwed up for life? Like, how bad is the impact of an ear- early childhood or good?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 23:29 Early childhood is no joke. It's really important, but I just, when I, when I say what I'm gonna say, I wanna remind everyone that this is, like, relationships are so dynamic, and we grow, and we change, and there's always hope. So I don't want anybody to be like, "I give up. I've done-"

Mel Robbins 23:53 (laughs)

Dr. Aliza Pressman 23:53 ... wrong." (laughs) Like, "This is over." I know that nobody listening has that mindset, or they would not be listening to your podcast, but I just, so early childhood is crucial. It's kind of how we get this, like, real wiring of how we love and how we f- wh- how we experience being loved.So, is the early attachment relationship very important between the primary caregiver and the child? It really is. Are the early experiences very important? Is the environment very important? Yes. And also, it's never too late. It's just never too late.

Mel Robbins 24:30 And it also sounds like a big factor is also the temperament of the child.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 24:40 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 24:40 That there are... And, and I, I think if, if you've got siblings, or you have multiple kids-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 24:46 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 24:46 ... you recognize-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 24:47 You see it. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 24:47 Yeah. That every parent is a different parent to every child, so... And, and none of your brothers and sisters had the same childhood-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 24:55 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 24:55 ... as you did. 'Cause they don't have the same temperament, and every time a parent becomes another parent to a, uh, to a child, you actually are a different parent.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 25:06 Totally. So you've got yourself as a different evolving parent.

Mel Robbins 25:11 Uh-huh.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 25:11 A more, you know, for, for better, for worse, usually better, and then but it also depends on the circumstances. I got divorced when my oldest was not even five, and my youngest was just about to turn three. And I was hearing the research in my head over and over about these early years, and I was just so devastated 'cause I was thinking, "Oh, I'm gonna be in distress, and that's gonna impact my kids." And so, what do I need to do? How do I need to do this? I need to do this with that knowledge, not to scare myself, but to just be super intentional during this time because all things being equal, I would not have done it at that time because it is a very sensitive period.

Mel Robbins 25:54 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 25:55 But we can do workarounds, and temperament really matters, and so that's the other thing. That's why, you know, some kids really can thrive under almost any circumstance. They're like dandelions. They can grow through the cracks of a sidewalk, (laughs) and you're just like a Whac-A-Mole, and you can't believe it. And other kids are, you know, it's a continuum, of course. Nobody's like in categories, but just for ease of talking about it, I think it's helpful to think like an orchid child is going to bloom under the best of circumstances and be incredibly robust, but in the worst of circumstances, if you've ever tried to raise an orchid, I have, you know, it's, uh, it's, it's not pretty.

Mel Robbins 26:33 No.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 26:34 It's not pretty. So you have to also take that into account.

Mel Robbins 26:37 So can you explain-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 26:38 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 26:39 ... that metaphor for temperament because, you know, in The Five Principles for Parenting, you talk about orchid children versus dandelion.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 26:47 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 26:48 Dandelion children. What does that mean?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 26:50 So Thomas Boyce did this research, um, and it's really beautiful, I think, as long as you take it all with a grain of salt because people are not just in categories of flowers, but if you have more than one kid or more than one sibling, you know this is true.

Mel Robbins 27:08 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 27:08 Which is there are orchids, tulips, and dandelions, and the dandelions, and I'm gonna say something that can sound daunting, but I think it's also inspiring. Parenting is the most powerful environmental input for children.

Mel Robbins 27:25 Parenting-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 27:26 Parenting.

Mel Robbins 27:26 ... is the most en- powerful environmental input for children.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 27:29 Yes.

Mel Robbins 27:29 So you could be in the worst of circumstances-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 27:31 Worst of circumstances.

Mel Robbins 27:31 ... and have a steady, loving, safe parent.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 27:34 It is incredibly protective. It's incredibly protective. And we can talk about that 'cause I think that research is exquisite. Separately, when you think about how anyone responds to their environment, an orchid responds quite sensitively to their environment.

Mel Robbins 27:53 Yes.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 27:53 They're gonna be attuned to everything going on, and they need a very specific set of sunlight, water, and soil in order to thrive.

Mel Robbins 28:00 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 28:01 But then they're magnificent.

Mel Robbins 28:02 Yes.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 28:03 A tulip is sort of somewhere in between what might have been considered slow to warm up, and yet they can do pretty well. And then dandelions, you really don't need to do much but love them, um, more often than not and set some boundaries (laughs) here and there. And they're gonna be fine, and I think it can be really flattering if you have a dandelion 'cause-

Mel Robbins 28:25 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 28:25 ... you're like, "I am A-gaming this." And then you get an orchid, and you're like, "Oh, wait a second. This is a little more challenging. Like I have to put a little more thought into this environment."

Mel Robbins 28:37 You said that the parenting is the single most powerful environmental factor for a child, and we talked about the fact that, you know, a child could be in an, a very unsafe, stressful physical environment or country or-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 28:56 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 28:56 ... like house.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 28:58 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 28:58 But if you have a safe, protective parent that feels like home, that is a very stabilizing force.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 29:05 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 29:05 And I wanna be sure just to validate, if it's true, that you could also be in the most safe, affluent, amazing household in terms of the physical space, but if you have unsafe parents or people that are not there consistently, that still is the single biggest-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 29:27 Environmental.

Mel Robbins 29:28 ... environmental factor, like who the parents are.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 29:31 Mm-hmm. So, and I say this with so much compassion because when I first learned about this literature, I was like, "That is daunting." (laughs)

Mel Robbins 29:40 Well, no, I actually think it's very inspiring because-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 29:43 I do too.

Mel Robbins 29:43 ... we, we're all so busy chasing all this stuff for our kids, and the research is pointing to the fact that it's actually what you personally provide with your energy and-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 29:55 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 29:55 ... whether or not, more often than not, you're showing up in a way-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 30:00 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 30:00 ... that makes the child feel loved and seen and accepted. And, you know, I think for, for anybody that grew up in a household where you look around, and you're like, "Well, well, you know, it's not like I was beaten."

Dr. Aliza Pressman 30:12 Right.

Mel Robbins 30:13 But there's something that feels really off.What the research is probably pointing to is you had all this stuff on the outside, but in terms of the parent being able to provide the most important and powerful environment, which is their own emotional stability-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 30:34 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 30:34 ... and presence, that, you didn't get that.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 30:37 So, it's, you can, it sometimes gets replaced, like somebody found an amazing coach or mentor.

Mel Robbins 30:43 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 30:43 So, they're one adult in your life that you know has kind of got your back, that loves you for who you are, not the splendor of your accomplishments, all that stuff is, buffers the impact of even the most horrific stressors. So, when you think about-

Mel Robbins 31:00 That's what the research says?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 31:01 That's what the research says. So, there's toxic stress, we talk about stress all the time, but we need to distinguish between what kind of stressors, because some stress is great. That's called positive stress and that leads to growth. Any stress that is not long-term harmful, it's just like a short-term, you know, it's like those little weights that you're lifting-

Mel Robbins 31:19 Yeah.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 31:19 ... they're uncomfortable, but you know that it leads to growth.

Mel Robbins 31:21 Yeah.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 31:22 We need that stress-

Mel Robbins 31:23 Okay.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 31:23 ... in order to be resilient humans. It's not possible to grow resilience without having positive stressors. Then there's tolerable stressors, which are the things that are, that you wouldn't wish on people, but they happen. Divorce, a death of a loved one, things that are really hard, but in the presence of a loving-

Mel Robbins 31:43 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 31:43 ... supportive caregiver-

Mel Robbins 31:45 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 31:45 ... can actually grow resilience. And then there's toxic stress. You would not wish toxic stress on any human ever. It's horrible stuff. But what I think is spectacular about this research is that if you take what would be listed as a toxic stressor-

Mel Robbins 32:02 Like what?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 32:03 ... like witnessing abuse, and you have one, just one caregiver that has that save, safe, stable, connected relationship, it moves the categorization of the stressor from toxic to tolerable.

Mel Robbins 32:20 Huh.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 32:21 And to me, the fact that the parenting environment can buffer the impact of those kinds of things is so relieving, and we can do that.

Mel Robbins 32:32 You also, Dr. Pressman, say that parenting has nothing to do with the kids.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 32:36 (laughs) It's about us. I mean, there's- there's no way around it. Part of the reason why I just said relationship, reflection, regulation, rules, and repair, none of those have anything to do with kids. How you're raising your kids, when you're thinking about those five principles, it asks nothing of them. They get to be themselves.

Mel Robbins 32:57 Yeah.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 32:57 They are growing. You are creating that relationship. You're cultivating that relationship. You're doing the reflecting, you're not asking them to reflect. You're doing the regulating. You're making the rules, and you're initiating the repair. So, it's actually much easier because you can't control other people. I mean, we try-

Mel Robbins 33:19 (laughs)

Dr. Aliza Pressman 33:20 ... constantly.

Mel Robbins 33:21 It- it is- it is so obvious when you put it that way.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 33:23 I know. It's just like a lot of times people come to me, we're in conversation, I'm like, "How can I help?" And they're like, "I need my child to be more self-regulated. They're out of control."

Mel Robbins 33:34 (laughs)

Dr. Aliza Pressman 33:34 And it's just like, "Well, okay. Let's, we're gonna work on the thing you can control, which is how's your regulation going?" And then once people realize that, it's like, "Oh, things changed in my house. My child did develop better self-regulation skills over time once I did my work."

Mel Robbins 33:51 And that brings us to a huge topic in the book, which is about raising emotionally healthy, resilient kids. What's the biggest myth parents believe about raising, quote, "healthy, resilient kids"?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 34:06 The biggest myth is that you can't be sensitive as a caregiver if you wanna raise resilient kids, that you shouldn't coddle, that it's coddling to be too sensitive and attuned.

Mel Robbins 34:21 Hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 34:22 And so, what happens is you get extremes in resilience, atte- in attempts to build resilience. You either get the, you know, "I'm not going to acknowledge this 'cause this is hard and this kid has to experience hard things," or you absolutely get an overcorrection of, "I don't want them to experience any hard things."

Mel Robbins 34:42 Hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 34:42 And neither of those are good for resilience building. The thing that is important is you can be as sensitive as you feel comfortable being to honor whatever your child is experiencing in their feelings, but it goes back to all feelings are welcome, knowing that you can have a sensitive parent who's like, "I see you. I see what's going on for you." I'm not changing what the plan is. Like, if I'm sending you to a job that you're really scared to do, I don't know what job that would be as a child.

Mel Robbins 35:15 Or we're changing schools-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 35:17 Yes, okay, there.

Mel Robbins 35:17 ... or...

Dr. Aliza Pressman 35:17 We're changing schools.

Mel Robbins 35:18 Or you're upset that mom and dad are getting a divorce, or you're-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 35:21 Or you're upset mom and dad are going to dinner for that matter.

Mel Robbins 35:23 Yes.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 35:23 Like I hear that all the time. Parents are like, "I can't leave the house at night. I can't do the, you know, weekly date with my partner because it would be too upsetting for my child."

Mel Robbins 35:35 Or, "I can't have them sleep in their own room."

Dr. Aliza Pressman 35:38 Right. 'Cause it's just like, so I think maybe what- what it is, is the extremes of kind of the rigidity of saying, "I'm gonna force you to do this uncomfortable thing and I'm not gonna give you the connection that you need to get through it," or the other side of it, of like, "I won't force you to do anything." And I think that those two extremes have both, they kind of both create potentially very, very absent of resilient, fragile, fragile kids. And it's like, we have to decide. I err on the side of sensitive. So like, I have to work really hard at keeping those boundaries and saying like, "I know you're struggling. I know you don't wanna do this. I know you're safe."... I'm here for it if you wanna cry about it, but then you're still going. Because-

Mel Robbins 36:31 I hate you, Mom.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 36:32 Totally.

Mel Robbins 36:33 (laughs)

Dr. Aliza Pressman 36:33 Because I would hear that, I'd see the welled up eyes-

Mel Robbins 36:36 Uh-huh.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 36:36 ... and my inclination would be to say, like, (sighs) like, "I don't want you to feel that feeling and I want you to know that you're safe with me, so I don't want you to experience that, so I'm not gonna make you do it." And then that grows fragility.

Mel Robbins 36:50 I completely screwed this up, by the way. This was one of the big mistakes I made as a parent.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 36:53 Because if your child was uncomfortable, you were like, "You don't have to do it."

Mel Robbins 36:56 Oh yeah, you don't have to do that.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 36:57 Right.

Mel Robbins 36:57 You can sleep on the floor for six months, which only made the anxiety and the fear way bigger.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 37:02 Bigger, bigger.

Mel Robbins 37:03 Yes.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 37:03 It's really hard. But then on the other side of it, the, the, the thing to be careful about is, if you're a person who's like, "I don't feel that sensitivity and connection. I am so good at those boundaries," I don't want you to think about those boundaries anymore, because if you wanna build a resilient kid, you probably need to be a little bit more attuned. You've got the boundaries down.

Mel Robbins 37:22 What happens if you're too tough? What happens if you have an orchid who's very, very sensitive and it's frustrating as hell and you do not validate what they're feeling-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 37:33 They feel.

Mel Robbins 37:33 ... 'cause you've just had it with them?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 37:35 I mean, again, so if sometimes that happens, who cares? If that happens more often than not-

Mel Robbins 37:41 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 37:41 ... what your message is, is, "You are not... You are defective. You, kid, are defective. You shouldn't be feeling those feelings." And so they will either hide them... They're not gonna stop feeling them, nobody stops feeling them, they just don't share that with you, and so you lose the thing that is most protective for resilience, which is relationship. And so that's why that, like, tough love and the absence of the connection can be harmful.

Mel Robbins 38:07 You know, I find a lot of times when I talk to somebody like you, who has all of the research and the amazing simple things-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 38:16 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 38:16 ... that we need to do, right?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 38:17 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 38:17 And you then start to assess the way that you were either raised or the way that you raised your kids and you recognize, um, "I wasn't raised the way you're talking about."

Dr. Aliza Pressman 38:29 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 38:29 "And... But I'd like to be better," like, where do you start when you have this realization that you would like to raise your kids differently, you would like to be a different parent?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 38:46 I think it always starts... Almost always, it starts with a breath, with your hand on your heart, and just releasing some of the pressure. Because it... You did not make the choice of how you were raised, and you can love your parents deeply and know that they were doing the best that they could do with what they had, with the resources that they had, and that you can still do a little bit better because you listened to this podcast episode and you were like, "I think I have more resources now."

Mel Robbins 39:20 Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 39:22 And, of course, there's many bigger resources that people need, and that moment of self-compassion gives you the compassion that your parents can get, so that you can kind of release that and move forward. And then I think every time you pause before acting with your kids-

Mel Robbins 39:44 Hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 39:44 ... you're doing it. You're just giving a little bit of space.

Mel Robbins 39:47 That's beautiful.

Mel Robbins 39:49 What if you realize, "My God, I've made a lot of mistakes. Like, I was the parent that was indifferent or cold or distracted," or, "I had a lot of anger," or, "I really screwed up the divorce because I didn't want the divorce. I complained about their co- their other parent non-stop."

Dr. Aliza Pressman 40:10 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 40:10 "I was angry, I was suffer-" Like, what do you do when you have this realization, "Boy, I really wish I could go back and get a do-over"?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 40:20 I would imagine that we all would be so happy to receive from, like, whomever this adult was in our life that call or that coffee or that walk where they say, "I just... I don't like how that went."

Mel Robbins 40:40 Hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 40:41 "I don't like how that went. I can't take it back, but I wanna move forward in a way, if you'll have me, that's different now." Like, I don't know anybody who wouldn't want that, unless they experienced abuse and neglect, and that's a different conversation, because-

Mel Robbins 40:58 But even that acknowledgement in those situations-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 41:01 No one's rejecting-

Mel Robbins 41:01 ... whether or not you want a relationship with them-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 41:03 Right, exactly.

Mel Robbins 41:04 ... even the acknowledgement that, "I am at fault. I was wrong."

Dr. Aliza Pressman 41:10 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 41:10 "I see that and I need to say it so you know that I've acknowledged that."

Dr. Aliza Pressman 41:17 Absolutely. And then the person on the receiving end can decide whether to receive it.

Mel Robbins 41:21 Yes.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 41:22 But you've done your part, and you also have to accept that they might... You have to let them-

Mel Robbins 41:27 Yes.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 41:28 ... decide that that's not for them anymore.

Mel Robbins 41:30 Yep.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 41:31 In so many circumstances, just being open to that new relationship is all you need to do. And then it's work. Then you just kind of, like, recalibrate together. I do want everyone to know that the onus is on the parent. It's never on the child.

Mel Robbins 41:50 Say that e- even when you're an adult?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 41:51 Even when you're an adult.

Mel Robbins 41:53 The onus... Why is the onus on the parent?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 41:55 Because it wasn't the child's decision. It was never on the child. We're... Like, we are fully responsible for raising our kids. They are not responsible for how we feel, how we act, you know, how many times we might accidentally s- let slip out of our mouths, "I wouldn't do that if you didn't X, Y and Z," but it's never... The onus is never on the child, and you are always, even as an adult child, you are always the child.That doesn't mean that you're not gonna, like, care for your elderly parents and love them, and maybe this is too much for them and you're like, "Wait, h- they didn't have that upbringing either. They might not know how to do this." But if they're coming to you, then they've started to know how to do it.

Mel Robbins 42:45 Hmm. I don't know why I feel like I've never heard, even when you're the adult...

Dr. Aliza Pressman 42:51 You're-

Mel Robbins 42:51 ... you're still the child, and it's still on your parents.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 42:56 I mean, I know that people would love for it not to be, (laughs) because it can feel, particularly when you think about different generations and just-

Mel Robbins 43:05 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 43:05 ... culturally.

Mel Robbins 43:06 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 43:07 But, what, what I'm saying has nothing to do with, like, caring for your elderly parents, loving them, making sure that they feel okay in a world that is totally changed.

Mel Robbins 43:19 Yeah.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 43:20 But you are not responsible for repairing a relationship that was their responsibility. That is on them. It's just never on the child, no matter how old you are.

Mel Robbins 43:32 Wow. I think that's a hard pill for a lot of parents to swallow-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 43:37 I know.

Mel Robbins 43:37 ... especially with adult children.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 43:39 I understand. You are responsible for deciding whether you're going to have forgiveness and compassion for your parents. That's on you. But the repair, the repair has to be on them. If they can't do it, if they can't initiate it, then it's not your responsibility. Now, that doesn't, again, mean you need to be imprisoned by that, because you could, they could've, they could be long gone and you can-

Mel Robbins 44:03 Right.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 44:03 ... forgive them, and that is so powerful. But the repair, the reconnection, has to come from them. It's never a responsibility-

Mel Robbins 44:13 Otherwise, it's gonna always be the same dynamic.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 44:15 It's, th- you're still in this cycle-

Mel Robbins 44:18 In this power-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 44:18 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 44:18 ... struggle.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 44:18 Yeah. It's heartbreaking.

Mel Robbins 44:20 Yeah.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 44:21 And then you're also, you're, you're trying to do something that's not doable, and so you're gonna eventually, again, question your own worthiness.

Mel Robbins 44:31 You know, it brings me to this quote that I love that you have in your book, The Five Principles of Parenting. It's on page 60, Carl Jung quote.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 44:41 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 44:41 "The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents." Can you unpack them, pack that? 'Cause you're right. Over-sacrificing our dreams for our children doesn't ultimately do them any favors. What does this mean?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 45:01 There is a martyrdom in motherhood in particular.

Mel Robbins 45:05 Can we go there, please?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 45:06 Yes. (laughs) And I-

Mel Robbins 45:08 And-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 45:09 It's motherhood.

Mel Robbins 45:09 ... explain martyrdom-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 45:10 Okay.

Mel Robbins 45:10 ... so that, just 'cause it's a big word.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 45:13 The idea, there is some weight we give, this, this weight we give to a mother who is sacrificing herself for her children, that that is the ultimate mothering. That mother, y- you hear this time and again in speeches about mothers, "She gave up everything for me. She gave up her dreams for me." It's, it's deified. You are so, you are miserable, basically. (laughs) It's saying, "You don't have your own thing-"

Mel Robbins 45:50 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 45:50 "... you are miserable and your whole center of your life is this act of mothering." Now, I'm a mother. You're a mother. We know that our kids are, in so many ways, the center of our lives, the sun, moon and stars. Who among us wants to be that burdened, by being the center? By, by, you know, like, leaving, going off to life and college and whatever and thinking, "My martyr mother has nothing. Sh- her purpose is nothing except for me." That doesn't feel good. So that's one problem. But also, it sets a really unhealthy message for women about what mothering even is.

Mel Robbins 46:36 I also think it can create a dynamic where there's a v- underlying resentment-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 46:44 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 46:44 ... and loyalty owed-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 46:47 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 46:47 ... because of the sacrifice. "I gave up everything for you, therefore-"

Dr. Aliza Pressman 46:51 Therefore.

Mel Robbins 46:51 "... you owe me X, Y, and Z." And if you don't give me that, there is this resentment-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 47:00 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 47:00 ... because it feels like you don't appreciate all that was given. Like, I-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 47:04 You will be punished.

Mel Robbins 47:04 ... I feel like this is something that does not get talked about a lot, that there's, it is an example where, y- you're right, it is, y- you do hear it all the time in speeches. And that's not-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 47:15 I-

Mel Robbins 47:15 ... to say that moms aren't amazing and that-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 47:18 Amazing.

Mel Robbins 47:18 ... the sacrifices that you give up, uh, like, you, you give a lot of sacrifices to be a mom. We all do.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 47:26 Which, we all do, which is why I think it's hard to have this conversation, because it's, like, not, it's grayer.

Mel Robbins 47:31 But I chose to be a mom.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 47:33 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 47:34 So I'm choosing to give the sacrifice, not in expectation of something.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 47:38 It's not an expectation. I think you actually right then and there made the distinction that is so important, because if I'm making this choice, I'm doing it with absolutely no expectation. I'm doing it, in that case, not as a martyr, but as a mother.

Mel Robbins 47:55 Let's say the person listening is like, "Okay, I really blew this."

Dr. Aliza Pressman 47:59 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 48:00 Or, "I'm failing," or, "I'm gonna fail." Like, what, what would you tell somebody who feels like they're failing at parenting right now?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 48:08 I don't believe you, first of all, and I believe every feeling that everyone's having, but I don't believe that you are actually failing, because you're here. There is no way, it is a self-selecting group of people that are curious, that are listening to this. And you cannot be a curious parent without being a good enough parent. So, that's my first thing, is denying your feelings. (laughs) And then I would say-Make a choice. Do you want to move forward in this new way? Do you feel like this is surmountable?

Mel Robbins 48:42 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 48:42 I think it is.

Mel Robbins 48:44 And there are so many parents right now in survival mode.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 48:47 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 48:47 In fact, there's recent research about how the stress associated with parenting is its own form of chronic and acute stress.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 49:00 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 49:00 And so if you're in survival mode, which I feel like I was in for almost, like, a 10-year period with my kids when they were-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 49:08 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 49:08 ... really little, desperately trying to make the ends meet, trying to keep the job, trying to get groceries and dinner, trying to get people just doing the best you can, collapsing into bed, drinking too much because I- I'm trying to turn my brain off. If that's you, where you're just surviving and you're stressed, how do you start becoming a parent that's more intentional? Like, what's the first step after patting yourself on the back for being here, which I am glad you're saying that because I do think being interested in learning and doing better is something that is worthy of acknowledging and celebrating. But what's the next thing I do?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 49:53 And so knowing that, you can acknowledge, like, "Okay, I'm not alone here." This is a pretty global feeling.

Mel Robbins 50:00 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 50:02 So if I'm not alone here, how can I figure out community for me 'cause every, th- this hokey put your oxygen mask on first is real. So what are the things that I need to do in my day that maybe I'm putting into my kids 'cause I think it's better for them that I can take out of the day?

Mel Robbins 50:24 Can you give me an example? Like, what could we-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 50:26 Sports.

Mel Robbins 50:26 Sports. What do you mean? They don't be, have to be on 15 sports?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 50:28 They don't have to be on 15 teams where you have to drive 500 hours a week to make sure that they're getting all the things because sports is so important for development and, like, teamwork and maybe getting into college or something because you're doing it at the expense of functioning.

Mel Robbins 50:45 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 50:46 And so you aren't even able to be the parent that has the good enough relationship 'cause you're too busy with all the busy stuff. So I would take off the table the things that you are pretending are better for your kids. And I would say, "Let's get back to the basics. How often am I losing my mind?"

Mel Robbins 51:05 (laughs)

Dr. Aliza Pressman 51:05 "What do I have to take off the table when it comes to losing it with the kids?"

Mel Robbins 51:09 Let's talk about meltdowns.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 51:11 Okay.

Mel Robbins 51:11 If you've got a kid who's constantly melting down, what do you do? Like...

Dr. Aliza Pressman 51:16 (laughs) Um, first, if you have a kid who's constantly melting down, I would want to do a lot of reflection. Like, spend one full week not changing a thing but noticing what starts that meltdown.

Mel Robbins 51:33 Hm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 51:34 And then what do I do in response? So you wanna look at what happened before the meltdown, then you wanna look at the meltdown and how you respond to it. And you will get so much information that week because what you might find out is this kid melts when I'm, like, kind of my insides are spinning out, I'm rushed, I've got-

Mel Robbins 51:55 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 51:55 ... a thousand things to do. It's coming across, and that is when they choose to meltdown. (laughs) And so that means, okay, back to us, I need to slow down. I need to take a breath because I am really, like, I don't want us to meet them where they are. We want them to meet us where we are.

Mel Robbins 52:16 So in addition to kind of doing a one week of observation, because I would imagine you could probably do this with the adults in your life.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 52:25 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 52:26 And you could see that there are patterns to people's meltdowns.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 52:31 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 52:31 There are patterns to when your partner erupts over things. And that if you also apply that temperament model of, oh, am I dating an orchid or do I have a dandelion or a tulip? And kind of understanding that temperament piece. And if I'm really getting the power of what you're saying, it's not about them. It's about you reflecting.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 52:57 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 52:57 And you understanding that changing your approach to match who you're dealing with and what you're dealing with is where the power is, particularly with parenting, but kinda with everybody.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 53:07 Kinda with everybody. It's like, there's a saying, I have no idea who said it, but "When a flower doesn't bloom, you change the environment, not the flower."

Mel Robbins 53:13 Yes.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 53:14 And so we really wanna change the flower sometimes.

Mel Robbins 53:17 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 53:18 And if we change the environment, and in this case, the environment is like, okay, the transitions need to be less hairy. Like, I need to figure out a different way of scheduling because we're, we're hitting the same challenge every week. And then separately, we can let tantrums happen and we don't have to fix them in real time.

Mel Robbins 53:37 What is a tantrum? So e- so Dr. Pressman, when you hear a, a, kids being difficult-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 53:42 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 53:43 ... or they're throwing tantrums, what is the person feeling?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 53:47 To me, a tantrum is an indication that that person does not feel safe.

Mel Robbins 53:53 Hm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 53:53 They feel threatened. So they go into fight because there's fight, flight, or freeze. When you go into fight mode, what you're saying is, "My alarm went off. My internal alarm went off that I am under threat and I don't know how to deal with it except to fight."

Mel Robbins 54:11 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 54:11 And so you just go, you're seeing red. And it's the same thing as if somebody was coming at you with a knife. You just feel under threat. And when you're little, that threat can be because you got a blue cup and not a red cup.

Mel Robbins 54:25 Right.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 54:25 It's not... It doesn't, it doesn't understand the, the threat as real or imagined. It feels very real. And so what we have to do is help our kids learn to distinguish, and ourselves, the difference between real and imagined threat so that you have access to say, "Hm..."...I'm, I'm starting to feel these feelings, like when I'm about to throw a tantrum, I can tell you right now, my hands clench.

Mel Robbins 54:51 Huh.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 54:51 That's a clue that I'm about to lose (laughs) my mind. So for me, if, uh, my hands are clenched, and we all can figure out what those little signs are, that, that's the sort of slow warning beep of, like, "I better figure out how to not go into, there is a threat of an attack." So, I know for me, there are three things that get me out of it. The first is breathing, because you can't breathe and run away from a saber-toothed tiger. You know, like, our primitive state would stop all that. You wouldn't take a sip of water. You can't be angry and take a sip of water. Try it. It's, like, not possible because-

Mel Robbins 55:29 Huh.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 55:29 ...the message when you take a sip of water is, "You're safe to take a break (laughs) and take a sip of water."

Mel Robbins 55:34 Yeah.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 55:34 Or putting your hands under cold water.

Mel Robbins 55:37 Those three things.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 55:37 Those three things.

Mel Robbins 55:38 Take a breath.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 55:39 Take a breath, take a sip of water, put your hands under water, and basically you're saying, "We have to get the fire extinguisher before it goes too crazy and causes too much of a mess." So, I really want people to work on that for themselves, and your kids get that tool by watching you not meet them at their tantrum.

Mel Robbins 55:57 Well, if you don't have kids, do this with your parents.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 56:00 There is-

Mel Robbins 56:00 Do this at work.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 56:01 There is anybody th- there is so many people that are going to be in your life-

Mel Robbins 56:06 That are gonna make you angry or make you wanna erupt-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 56:08 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 56:08 And, like, learning how to, for me, it's like a volcano.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 56:11 Exactly.

Mel Robbins 56:11 I feel, like, heat rising, and then my tone of voice shifts immediately, just like when somebody hangs up the phone when I was little and the tone of voice had shifted immediately. Like, I'm just repeating this mood thing.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 56:24 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 56:24 And it can happen (snaps fingers) like that. And so, I love that advice. Take a deep breath, take a sip of water, put your hands under cold water and you're signaling, "All right, let's just stay calm."

Dr. Aliza Pressman 56:37 Because we're safe. And then your child who's in the middle of a tantrum or that person who's maybe even picking a fight with you sees that you are not erupting as well, you are not panicked, you remind yourself that you're safe and your child is safe, they will go through the tantrum faster. It will be over, and you move along.

Mel Robbins 56:57 And just redirect.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 56:59 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 56:59 Um, I would love to talk about advice for dealing with other adults, because the person that is spending time is investing in themselves. But let's say you have a partner who is just phoning it in, you're the one reading the books, you're the one listening to the podcasts, you're the one trying to calm yourself down, and they're still snapping or not receptive to trying different ways of approaching, Dr. Pressman, what, what do you do in those situations where you are cope, you're, you're married to somebody or you're partnered with somebody that is not interested in doing better?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 57:49 Share this episode, share resources that are not, "I know better than you."

Mel Robbins 57:54 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 57:55 But they're more like, "I think this is interesting. Tell me what you think." Open up a dialogue, and also remember, you cannot control other people. You can't control their journey. You can't control their path. So, the work is to keep doing what you're doing. They will witness that, and then you can, if they're curious about it, you have ways to say, like, "Here's where I came up with this," or, "This is what I'm thinking." They might see a more successful relationship. They might see that you're doing a little bit better, and they might learn by watching that. But if you just say, like, "I've figured this out. You need to be better," (laughs) it's just not gonna go well.

Mel Robbins 58:44 I think you could also appeal to, like, what you're offering sounds more peaceful, honestly.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 58:49 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 58:49 'Cause, uh, there's a lot of conflict inside households.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 58:56 Well-

Mel Robbins 58:56 There's a lot of, like, bickering and arguing and not talking and frustration and resentment, and, you know, one of the things that I wanted to ask you about is, you recently got remarried, and you now are navigating a blended family.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 59:13 Yes.

Mel Robbins 59:13 And I would love to just hear, Dr. Pressman, your observations about, based on kind of the research and some of your experience with patients or even in your own situation, what do you think people get wrong about trying to blend families or dating somebody that has kids and becoming the new person in their life, and what do you want people to know?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 59:44 I want to be very careful. (laughs) This is really hard stuff because, as the adult, you're navigating dating again. Like, that was supposed to be off the table.

Mel Robbins 59:58 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 59:58 And you have your own kids potentially or maybe you've never had kids, but you definitely have a different parenting style. Even if you agree on everything, you just, we're all different. We have different approaches. We came into this with different backgrounds, and so I think in terms of dating, people introduce partners way too early. You should wait because your kids don't need to experience the revolving door. They are not your best friend. They do not need to approve of everybody. You need to know how you feel about someone enough that they're worthy of meeting your kids, because when you see that over and over again-

Mel Robbins 1:00:37 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:00:37 ...it really messes with people.

Mel Robbins 1:00:39 Based on the research, after divorce, how long should you wait before you introduce who you're dating to your kids?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:00:46 I mean, the research suggests, particularly with the younger kids, that you wait a year.

Mel Robbins 1:00:50 A year.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:00:50 Which is a long time, and anytime anybody asks me, they don't like that answer. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:00:55 But imagine the discipline it takes-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:00:57 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:00:57 ...and the protection-... that you're displaying of your children and the stability that you're actually creating for your kids.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:01:07 Yeah. The, the exceptions are when it's just not feasible, but if you have a joint custody situation, then you very much can date somebody and get to know them. Now, if it's getting so serious that you're talking about being madly in love and getting married, then you can bump it up a little because you've already made that decision. But the reason why you wanna take time is you need to learn how to be in a transition period with your kids-

Mel Robbins 1:01:36 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:01:37 ... so that they feel stable, and then you can start introducing other factors. But it's destabilizing. There's no question.

Mel Robbins 1:01:43 Well, if you really stop and think about the research that you shared that you as a parent are the single most powerful environmental factor in your child's development, and what they need from you more than anything is safety. They need to know that you're there. They need to know that, more often than not-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:02:02 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:02:02 ... they're going to be greeted with love and reason and care and your presence. And if you are going through a divorce or you are going through a period of grieving because one of the parents has died, that there is a major transition going on, and if you then become so distracted with your new love life that you insert that too soon in a period of time that your kids need you to be the single most powerful, stable environmental factor in their development through the transition, I would imagine it's very disruptive and damaging. What is the research?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:02:43 So it does, it definitely undermines the future relationship too. So, like, if you're feeling like this is the person, give them the best shot at having a good relationship with your kids by not rushing it.

Mel Robbins 1:02:53 Mm. Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:02:54 And if it is the right person, they're gonna take the time with you. They're right there with you. Now, if circumstances are such that it needs to be sooner, that's okay, but be, be as... You know, we can't be sure of anything, and you certainly... I can hear what people might say, which is, "Well, how do I know for sure if they haven't interacted with my kids 'cause I've gotta see how they are with my kids." I think that's step two. But there's a... You know, we are, we did make the choice to have kids and we do need to give a longer runway because they are in a phase of life where they are forming and we want to proceed with caution because this is a tender time. And by tender I mean easily influenced. And so you just wanna be thoughtful, and if you don't have a year, certainly give it as many months as you can to really understand this adult relationship that you're in.

Mel Robbins 1:03:51 I have a, uh, friend who basically was a single mom. Dad bounced, went off, had his own life, had nothing to do with the kids, wasn't involved financially, nothing. And now the kids are adults and dad is back in the picture and dad has a lot of money and it is extremely painful to see this happening even though your kids have a right to have a relationship separate from you with their par- their other parent. How do you manage those sort of feelings when you're dealing with an ex, whether they're present or they're coming back and you just feel like it's just not fair?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:04:39 It's unjust.

Mel Robbins 1:04:40 Yeah, it's unjust. Or, or the kids go to the other parent's house and everything's the opposite of what you're trying to do.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:04:50 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:04:50 Like, what are some of the phrases you can say (laughs) ? What are... You know what I mean?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:04:54 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:04:54 Like, that-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:04:56 One-

Mel Robbins 1:04:56 ... that would just burn me alive.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:04:58 I think-

Mel Robbins 1:04:58 I'll, I'll just come right out and say.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:04:59 Of course.

Mel Robbins 1:04:59 That would be a very, very challenging situation for me to be in.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:05:03 No, I mean my shoulders are going up hearing this story (laughs) .

Mel Robbins 1:05:05 Sorry, I'm like, yeah.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:05:07 I'm like, ah. Um, reminder that it just takes one.

Mel Robbins 1:05:12 What do you mean, one?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:05:13 It takes one parent or loving caregiver with whom you feel that safe connected self, the stability, and all of that. It just takes one for positive outcomes for kids.

Mel Robbins 1:05:23 And Dr. Pressman, is it okay if I allow myself to be arrogant and, like, feel better than that I'm choosing to be the one-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:05:33 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:05:33 ... just taking the high road? That's okay?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:05:34 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:05:34 I don't have to do this in an... Like I don't have to be-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:05:37 You don't have to pretend.

Mel Robbins 1:05:37 ... gracious and all that about it. I can just be like-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:05:40 No.

Mel Robbins 1:05:40 ... "Okay, I'll be the better one."

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:05:41 I'm taking that on.

Mel Robbins 1:05:42 Okay, okay. All right.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:05:43 That's-

Mel Robbins 1:05:43 I just wanna make sure.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:05:44 No, own that. Have that. You don't... I wouldn't say it to the other parent.

Mel Robbins 1:05:47 Of course not.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:05:48 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:05:48 But I wouldn't say it to my kids either, but I'm just-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:05:50 No, definitely not.

Mel Robbins 1:05:50 ... like trying to leverage something-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:05:52 Yes.

Mel Robbins 1:05:52 ... in a situation where it just doesn't seem fair.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:05:54 It, it is unjust, except you are the one. And when you are the one, there is nothing more powerful in the environmental life of your chi- in the environment of your child, and so that's... Even though it is painful and even though it is unjust, it is incredibly powerful to keep reminding yourself, "I'm, I'm that one. This is my job and I'm doing it more often than not, and sometimes it feels really crappy and unjust, but I'm doing this for me because I will feel better." Because the shame that you feel when you can't do that-

Mel Robbins 1:06:30 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:06:31 ... isn't worth it. It doesn't serve you. It doesn't serve your kids. And it is a near impossible task to have a really hard relationship with the co-parent and try not to bad-mouth them and try not to prove that you are better, but it does so much harm to the kids that it's worth reminding yourself, "Who is my real... Like who do I really care about here? It's not this person who I have a terrible relationship with and..."... for whom I'm driven cr- you know, like-

Mel Robbins 1:07:10 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:07:10 ... I- this is- this is not the person. So, if my real focus is on raising these kids, I'm going to do the thing that supports them, which is write in a journal the- the terrible things I'm thinking, but do the things that are going to help serve my kids, which is to be that one person. And you're gonna screw it up sometimes. We all screw it up sometimes. I am divorced. I'm not always, like, saying the most amazing things. But for the most part, I'm not only saying nice things, I'm feeling them. Like, I'm believing them. I'm trying to hunt for things that are good because everybody has something good and if you can focus on that, it just, like, goes into your body and that is reflected-

Mel Robbins 1:07:52 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:07:52 ... in the way you talk about the co-parent.

Mel Robbins 1:07:55 I've- I- I'd like also to remind you as you're watching or listening that your kids aren't idiots.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:08:01 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:08:01 Like, you knew which one of your parents was-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:08:04 Was the parent

Mel Robbins 1:08:05 ... the one that was safer.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:08:07 Of course.

Mel Robbins 1:08:08 Like, it didn't matter who bought you what or who had a nicer car or bigger house or whatever-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:08:14 Yes.

Mel Robbins 1:08:14 ... you knew and your kids know.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:08:15 They know. That is such an important point. Like, we don't ever need to tell them.

Mel Robbins 1:08:20 No.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:08:20 We mostly don't need to tell them things. They know. And that's why even when I said, "Hunt for something good," it's because they know if you're faking it. L- you know?

Mel Robbins 1:08:29 I also feel like there must be a hardwired desire to always feel connected to your biological parent. And so, that- it- I- I haven't been through it, but being angry at your kids for wanting that is just going against the nature-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:08:51 Their natural- yes. It's- it is actually harmful to them because they are- their biological parent is a part of them. So, when you- if you're saying-

Mel Robbins 1:09:03 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:09:03 ... something about that person-

Mel Robbins 1:09:06 Oh, wow.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:09:06 ... you're-

Mel Robbins 1:09:07 I never thought about it that way.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:09:09 If you do, it will help you not say those things 'cause you're like, "I'm shit talking part of who they are." You would never say something like that to your child about your child. So, like, their biological connection is still a part of them.

Mel Robbins 1:09:27 Is there research about what happens to kids when parents trash talk-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:09:32 Yes.

Mel Robbins 1:09:33 ... the other parent? What does the research say?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:09:34 The research is that the higher conflict the relationship between the co-parents and the more they bring the kids into it, the worse outcomes there are for both intellectual development, emotional development, and general, like, all the positive outcomes, executive function skills. Like, kind of everything. High conflict divorce is really not good for kids. It's the thing that is the hardest. I know, it- it is so hard to ask that of people, but there is something so powerful about understanding how much that conflict harms kids so that you can do as much as you can. You can't do everything, but again, more often than not, if you can all- like, relieve them of being part of that conflict and even stop yourself from having the conflict. And people are terrible to each other. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:10:25 Terrible.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:10:25 Like, there are terrible stories. But we are wired for resilience and we are wired for love, and so those things will all come back, but they are so terribly challenged when kids are in the presence of high conflict relationships.

Mel Robbins 1:10:42 And so would the number one rule to adopt be, "Don't speak ill-"

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:10:45 Yes.

Mel Robbins 1:10:46 "... of the other parent"? Because when you do that, you're actually speaking ill of your child.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:10:52 Yes.

Mel Robbins 1:10:53 Because that parent, as much as you may hate them-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:10:56 They're part of them.

Mel Robbins 1:10:56 ... is still part of that child.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:10:58 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:10:59 I've never heard anybody say that before. That is so profound and important.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:11:07 When you think about- it makes me so sad just thinking of the times that I've screwed that up. But when you really think about, like, we talk with kids all the time about, "Oh, you got this from this parent and this from this parent," so of course when you start to say, "You- this thing about this person you love is terrible," there's no question that the child is gonna say, "Wait, but that's a feature I have." So- and I know that's the biggest challenge. I- and- and you will screw it up sometimes. But the more you're aware of it, I just think it makes it easier.

Mel Robbins 1:11:43 I know that there are gonna be so many people that listen to this that share this with their adult kids, or they share it to their parents, or they share it with their siblings.

Mel Robbins 1:11:52 If you're listening to this and you are feeling the weight of what you just shared, either, "Wow, that's exactly what it felt like when mom or dad was complaining about this," or, "Wow, I really screwed this up," Dr. Pressman, what would your recommendation be to the person who's kind of either feeling the weight that, "This was my lived experience as a child," and it's never been validated or acknowledged by anybody, or you're recognizing that you did and you just were in such a state, you didn't know how to do better? What- what would the first thing be that you would recommend that somebody do?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:12:32 If you are the parent who just felt like you couldn't- y- at the time, it was too hard, talk to your kid, however old they are, and- and acknowledge, like, "That was about me. I was having a really hard time and the way that I talked about your parent wasn't your fault and it wasn't okay, and that was where I was then and here's what I've come to now."

Mel Robbins 1:12:57 "And I apologize."

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:12:58 "And I'm so sorry. That wasn't your burden to carry." And work on it. You know, like, just keep working on it.It's incredibly beautiful. So, like, whatever I say or any expert in this field says that makes you feel like I screwed up, please, please remember that the repair part is never expiring.

Mel Robbins 1:13:23 It's just acknowledge and apologize?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:13:26 It's acknowledge, don't give, like, "I, I did it because..." You know? Like, that kind of apology is so annoying.

Mel Robbins 1:13:35 (laughs) Oh my god.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:13:35 If that is remotely part of the repair, it's not repair. Also remember that repair doesn't necessarily look like an apology. It can be just reconnection.

Mel Robbins 1:13:45 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:13:45 It's like we're back. We're back to feeling safe and connected together. It-

Mel Robbins 1:13:50 Is that possible if you don't apologize for the things that you did wrong?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:13:55 You know, I'm of two minds about this because with younger kids you can't apologize every time-

Mel Robbins 1:14:00 True.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:14:00 ... or it's, like, weird. Like, sometimes you just have to see that you're giggling again and sitting closer in front of the TV and all is well. Same in your roman- romantic relationships. Be so hard to constant- 'cause y- you're doing these micro discord moments constantly.

Mel Robbins 1:14:17 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:14:17 Like, I think when researchers looked at this the first time it was 33% of the time is attuned and the rest of the time is rupture and repair. That's a lot of, like, tiny little tears.

Mel Robbins 1:14:28 It means 30% of the time you feel connected to your parents.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:14:31 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:14:31 The other 70% were, like, hurting each other, upsetting each other-

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:14:36 And then coming back.

Mel Robbins 1:14:37 ... and then coming back. And then, and the coming back's important.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:14:38 And the coming back is so important.

Mel Robbins 1:14:40 It's everything. Actually, it brings me to a question that I wanted to ask you that goes all the way back to early childhood development.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:14:46 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:14:47 Why is the game of peekaboo so important?

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:14:50 Oh. I love this game so much and it really does have this beautiful way... First of all, we all do it. We don't even know why we do it, but you walk down the street and you see a little kid, or you're at a restaurant and how many of us have, like, gone under the chair and then popped back up just to get a little smile out of them? But what it teaches babies and toddlers is you go away, you come back, you go away, you come back, and it exercises the muscle of believing that the people you love always come back. And it seems so small, but it actually comes from learning about object and person permanence, which is just the developmental psych way of saying that people and things exist even when they're not in front of you.

Mel Robbins 1:15:35 Mm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:15:36 Which is so beautiful and a huge developmental milestone that happens around nine months. So, if you take, like, a six-month-old and they're playing with your glasses and you took your glasses off and you covered them with a napkin, they wouldn't look for the glasses 'cause they'd be like, "I guess the nap- the glasses are gone. Like, moving right along." But you see a nine-month-old and they're gonna lift up that napkin and look for those glasses and that seems like a nothing burger, except it shows you they finally understand that when things go away, they come back. They're still in existence. Before that, those glasses don't exist once they're covered. So, you're playing peekaboo and you are exercising the muscle of mommy's gone and she's back and she's gone and she's back, and they giggle and they laugh and it's a fun game, but you're also now helping them when they go off to school or childcare or just you're leaving the house for the night.

Mel Robbins 1:16:37 What I love about everything that you've shared is that peekaboo taught us they go away and then they come back at nine months, but what your work is doing and these five principles are teaching us as we get older and we're adults is that that same principle applies. That people go away, people do things that they don't mean to do, people hurt you in ways that they didn't realize or didn't intend to, but there are ways in which we can use this relationship and reflection and repair and all of the things that you're talking about to actually come back.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:17:21 That-

Mel Robbins 1:17:21 And that's a beautiful thing.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:17:23 It really is all about coming back.

Mel Robbins 1:17:27 It is so hopeful to think that no matter what has happened or how much time has passed, there is still this invisible string between a parent and a child that is there whether you like it or not. And that with a different frame of mind and with the tools that you shared that you can come back to yourself and potentially you might also be able to come back in relationship with people that you didn't think you could.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:17:58 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:17:58 And so, I'm just grateful that you're here and I'm grateful that you were very clear about where the onus is and you were also very gracious about the fact that people can only do what they're capable of doing with their life experience and with the experience that they had being parented by their parents.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:18:21 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:18:21 And so much of this isn't personal and that there's a lot you can do no matter how much time has passed or what has happened if you choose to to really improve things with just about anybody.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:18:37 It's so true and I hate the idea that l- there's so much noise out there that you just feel like every word out of your mouth is going to have such a terrible impact on your kids or your relationship or whatever it is. And, like, we need to get back to the hopeful stuff-

Mel Robbins 1:18:53 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:18:53 ... that's doable-

Mel Robbins 1:18:54 Yeah.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:18:54 ... and that is on us, but not-

Mel Robbins 1:18:57 Yeah.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:18:57 ... to the point where we're, like, "I feel so awful about myself I'm now not doing any of it and I'm shutting it out."

Mel Robbins 1:19:02 Right. Right. Today you've provided a roadmap to really see the, not only the hope, of course there's always something you can do, but that it does begin with you, which means you have the power and you're the one in control.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:19:14 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:19:14 And that's a beautiful thing.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:19:16 Now I just have to make sure that I remember that for myself, which I have to remind myself every day. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:19:22 (laughs) We all do.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:19:24 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:19:24 That's why everybody thinks I'm talking to them on this podcast. I'm actually talking to myself.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:19:28 Totally.

Mel Robbins 1:19:28 (laughs)

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:19:28 I believe you because I feel the same way.

Mel Robbins 1:19:31 Dr. Aliza Pressman, thank you, thank you for everything that you shared with us today. There were so many life-changing things that you said. My mind is completely spinning. I've got like 15 people to send this to.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:19:47 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:19:48 I feel like I'm a better person because of your work, and so thank you.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:19:57 Thank you and likewise. You are changing lives. It is so cool to watch.

Mel Robbins 1:20:02 (laughs)

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:20:02 It is so cool to watch, and I'm so grateful, truly.

Mel Robbins 1:20:07 Feelings mutual, my friend, feelings mutual.

Dr. Aliza Pressman 1:20:10 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:20:10 And I also want to just take a moment and thank you. Thank you for, for listening and watching all the way to the end. Thank you for investing the time and making the time to be here with us. I am so excited to see what changes when you apply everything that Dr. Pressman shared and taught with us today. I want to see you sharing this with people that you care about. I also feel so hopeful about the fact that it is never too late to recognize the things that you'd like to change and to make amends for the things that you didn't do the way you wish you had. I love that you can always do better, that you can always repair, both with yourself and the people that you want to be closer to. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you as your friend that I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life, and relationships are central to that. So, I hope you take these five principles, I hope you take all the truths that Dr. Pressman shared, and I hope you apply them because there's no doubt in my mind that your life will be better if you do. All righty, I'll see you in the next episode. I'll be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. And thank you for staying all the way to the end, watching all the way to the end. Thank you for sharing this with people that you care about. I'm so excited to see what you learned and how this changes your relationships for the better. Thank you also for hitting subscribe. You're the kind of person that loves supporting people that support you, and that's how you can support me and the team here at the Mel Robbins Podcast. All righty, I know you want to know, okay, what should I watch next? This is the perfect video for you to check out next, and I'll be waiting for you. I'm gonna welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there.