5 Exercises From Stoicism To Improve Your Life | Massimo Piggliuci | Modern Wisdom Podcast 170

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Epictetus says, "Some things…

   1. MPMassimo Pigliucci0:00

      Epictetus says, "Some things are up to you and other things are not up to you." And then he lists some... the things that are up to you, and then he lists the things that are not up to you. And then he says, "You should be concerning yourself with the first one and not the second one." Which is pretty sound advice. If something... if there's nothing you can do about something, you might as well ignore it because what are you gonna do about it?

   2. CWChris Williamson0:23

      It seems like stoicism is kind of similar to the hot new girl in school. You know, that everyone's interested in. She's just arrived here, and everyone's thinking, "Oh, she's I want a bit of her. Everyone else seems to be interested in her." So, what is it about stoicism that's giving us this resurgence in the modern era? I'm not seeing waves of books being written about a resurgence of Confucianism or Taoism. You know, what is it about stoicism that's, that's made it the po- hot new girl?

   3. MPMassimo Pigliucci0:56

      Yeah, that's an interesting question. Well, of course, um, as far as hot new girls go, stoicism is about 24 centuries old. Um, so it's pretty hot.

   4. CWChris Williamson1:04

      She's, she's aging well.

   5. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:06

      She's aging definitely very well.

   6. CWChris Williamson1:08

      (laughs)

   7. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:09

      Um, I also want to make a point, a, a, actually a, uh, comment on your observation that, you know, why stoicism and not a lot of other philosophies. I've hav- I've seen since, especially since this COVID, um, brouhaha started, and this, this, this whole mess has started, I have seen a lot of articles, uh, on other philosophies, um, including Buddhism, Taoism, uh, uh, Confucianism, uh, uh... And, and if we go to the Western philosophies, also Epicureanism. But you're, you're right. Those are the exceptions. Um, the, the overwhelming majority of things that I see are, uh, uh, is about Stoicism. I think it's for two reasons, and I, I think there are actually two different reasons, depending on whether we're talking about other, uh, Eastern, uh, sorry, other Western philosophies or Eastern philosophies. Um, Eastern philosophies are just not very Western-friendly. That's one way to put it. Meaning that unless you grew up in... and vice versa, of course. Western, Western philosophies are not Eastern-friendly. But it... meaning that if you grew up with a certain, you know, uh, language, background, culture, et cetera, et cetera, uh, it is less likely that, uh, something that obviously comes from a very different language and background is going to speak to you. Like, for instance, when I... before I got into Stoicism, I was actually exploring a number of, uh, possible philosophies of life, and I, of course, checked out Buddhism, because... which is reasonably well, uh, you know, known and practiced even in the, in the West, although the Western version is significantly different from the original one. And it just didn't speak to me. I mean, I recognized... so intellectually, I recognized the, the, what they're talking about. I, I know what they're talking about. I, I appreciated their ethics, et cetera, et cetera, but the language, the examples, the, the, the way of, uh, you know, the writings is just... eh, it didn't click. And then I read Epictetus, and I said, "Holy cow, how did I never hear about this guy before?" I mean, this guy clicked immediately. And as I said, I sus- I suspect it's the same the other way around if you go West or East. Of course, with plenty of exceptions. I mean, How To Be a Stoic, the first book that I wrote about Stoicism has been published in Japan and Korea and China. So, it's not like e- th- there are no- there's no audience, but it certainly is a fraction compared to Confucianism or Buddhism and so on and so forth. So, I think that's part of the explanation in terms of Western, uh, readings that you might have encountered. Now, the interesting thing is, well, why not Epicureanism or... You know, there's a little bit more about

   8. CWChris Williamson3:35

      Cynicism or whatever.

   9. MPMassimo Pigliucci3:36

      ... essentialism. Yeah, cynicism. Well, cynicism is pretty tough to practice, for one thing. Um, the reason why it's-

   10. CWChris Williamson3:40

       Living out of a pot and, and just sort of...

   11. MPMassimo Pigliucci3:43

       Yeah, yeah.

   12. CWChris Williamson3:44

       You and a couple of rags on the side of the road, yeah.

   13. MPMassimo Pigliucci3:47

       Right. It, it doesn't cost a lot of money for... to practice, uh, uh, cynicism. That's, you know, that's a upside. Uh, so there is one book that came out recently on Epicureanism, this was before the, the pandemics, by a colleague of mine, Katherine Wilson, actually here at City University of New York. Uh, you know, in a book that I co-edited recently called The How To Live A Good Life, there is a chapter on Epicureanism. But yes, there's certainly the exception. The... most of what you hear about is Stoicism. I think it's for a couple of important reasons. It's, it's not just by chance. Um, first of all, because Stoicism particularly speaks to... although, although one can use it no matter what the situation, no matter what the personal, you know, conditions, it definitely speaks to, uh, difficult times. It was born in difficult times. Uh, it was born during the Hellenistic period, uh, between the death of Alexander the Great and the beginning of the Roman Empire. That was a major, uh, time of turmoil in the Mediterranean area. Things were... big changes that nobody seen f- s- saw coming, and people felt like they didn't have control over what, what the hell was going on there. Um, so that's what... that's, that's the environment in which Stoicism was forged, and, uh, it still speaks today to that kind of stuff. And, you know, we are living in that kind of situation. Obviously, particularly with the COVID, um, you know, uh, pandemic, but even before. I mean, Stoicism has seen a resurgence over the last 20 years or so. And even before, and wh- why? Well, you know, think about it. Over the last century, we went through two world wars, not one, all right? Um, we are looking at gro- at the possibility of global climate collapse. We are still, uh, uh, threatened constantly by nuclear ani- annihilation. So, it's like, you know, there's been a lot of stuff going on (laughs) , um, that, that sort of makes these times pretty similar to the ones, um, uh, during the Hellenistic period. So, that's one reason. The other reason is because unlike a lot of other philosophies, including Epicureanism, Aristotelianism, and so on and so forth, Stoicism actually comes with a lot of practical advice, practical exer- ac- actually exer- actual exercises you can do in, in, you know, day-to-day, week to... by week. Aristotle's, uh, ethics, for instance, uh, the Nicomachean Ethics is the book where... the major book where Aristotle p- uh, put forth these, these ethics. It's very interesting from a sort of theoretical perspective, but-... and Aristotle wasn't interested in, in, uh, living that as a philosophy of life, and so he didn't give any particular, you know, actual ground rules or, you know, "What do you... Okay, what am I going to do about this?" Epicurus, Epicurus got a little closer, but even he was not, not that interested, for one thing, in proselytizing. He wasn't really writing, uh, that much about, you know, how to put this into practice. It was kind of general advice. Uh, one of the things that distinguishes Stoicism is the fact that there is a lot of emphasis on the practice. I mean, if you don't practice, you're not doing anything. And Stoics are very clear about this. Epictetus, uh, says several times in the Discourses to his students, like, you know, "If you guys are here just for the theory, you're wasting your time and mine."

   14. CWChris Williamson6:55

       Yeah. It's, um... It's interesting to see some of the surface-level information that I, I come across online on the internet about different philosophies, both ancient and, and modern. And, um, you're right. Some of them appear to be s- ka- just thought experiments from an armchair, and then others-

   15. MPMassimo Pigliucci7:17

       Yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson7:17

       ... appear to be, uh, thinking tools to be weaponized, almost.

   17. MPMassimo Pigliucci7:24

       Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, so let me gi- give you an example. So I have a, a close colleague and, and friend, um, uh, who is a existential- existentialist philosophers. And existentialism actually has been... You, you might have seen coming, you know, popping up, especially now for instance, uh, in the middle of the pandemics, uh, one of the best-selling books, uh, is, uh, um, Camus' The Plague, not surprisingly, right? (laughs)

   18. CWChris Williamson7:50

       Yeah.

   19. MPMassimo Pigliucci7:51

       Um, although I have actually read recently, just like a couple of days ago that people are running out... You know, pr- uh, uh, presses are running out of copies of Marcus Aurelius Meditations and, uh-

   20. CWChris Williamson8:00

       Wow.

   21. MPMassimo Pigliucci8:00

       ... and Seneca's writings. Yeah. That's, that's amazing. That's, uh, really amazing. Now the problem is you read the existentialists and yes, as a general framework, that sounds... that's, that's interesting. There, there are some things to really think about and, and sort of they might be helpful in practice. But it's not like the existentialists actually laid out a coherent philosophy of life to follow. In fact, they kind of on purpose refused to do so. Most of them actually rejected even the, the label li- existential, including Camus. So and, and most of them wrote novels, not philosophical treatises, right? So you do get an, uh, get... what they're getting at. You get the idea. Um, but it's... You know, you get to the end of the novel and you say, "Okay, now what? Uh, uh, how do I, how do I, how do I go existential here? Do I just start, you know, drinking a lot of coffee and, and smoking a lot of cigarettes? Uh, or is there something else to it?" And, you know, I'm of course teasing to some extent. (laughs) Uh, you might want to talk to my friend, Skye Cleary about it. She, she might have different ideas. But nevertheless, you know, that was one of the things that, um, that I found not particularly appealing, you know, where... in a philosophy of life, where if I can understand the point sort of at an abstract level, but then I immediately wonder, "Okay, and now what am I supposed to do about it?" Uh, then, then, then seem to be... that seems to be an issue.

   22. CWChris Williamson9:23

       Yeah. It's the, um, the very fancy app that you've just downloaded onto your phone, that looks great and sounds wonderful in principle, and for some people it might work, but for you, you just... you open it up and you're like, "I don't understand how any of this happens."

   23. MPMassimo Pigliucci9:37

       Yeah.

   24. CWChris Williamson9:37

       So what I want to try and do, I'd love to get you back on and talk about the history of Stoicism, how it came about. And as the listeners will know, I went to Athens for my birthday and I stood in the Stoa Poikile...

   25. MPMassimo Pigliucci9:52

       Nice. Nice.

   26. CWChris Williamson9:52

       ... which is where Stoicism was founded by Zeno of Citium.

   27. MPMassimo Pigliucci9:57

       Yes.

   28. CWChris Williamson9:57

       Yes.

   29. MPMassimo Pigliucci9:58

       That's right.

   30. CWChris Williamson9:58

       See, I've been doing my research, Massimo.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Got it. …

   1. MPMassimo Pigliucci15:00

      makes it worse, it's bad. That's the first virtue.

   2. CWChris Williamson15:03

      Got it.

   3. MPMassimo Pigliucci15:04

      Second, courage. Courage is not, you know, necessarily physical courage or the courage to rush into battle or anything like that. It's moral courage. So it's the courage to do the right thing, right? That's related to the third cro- cardinal virtue, which is justice. What is the right thing to do as far as other people are concerned? That, that comes down to justice. You need to, to treat people justly, fairly, as you would like to be treated essentially, right? Notice the difference between the first and the third virtue. The first virtue, practical wisdom, is about what is good for you. The third one, justice, is about what is good for other people in terms of how you behave toward other people.

   4. CWChris Williamson15:44

      I'm gonna guess those, those two come into conflict quite a lot.

   5. MPMassimo Pigliucci15:47

      Well, that's one of the things that you have to, you know, to, to, to handle, learn to handle. And then the fourth virtue is temperance. Temperance is often understood as doing as little as possible, but that's not quite right. Uh, temperance means doing things in the right measure, neither too much nor too little. Okay, so let me give you a spe- a specific example, uh, where we can see all the four virtues working simultaneously, because that's the notion, that anything important that you're gonna do, you should ask yourself, "Well, is this practically wise? Is it courageous? Is it just, and is it temperate?" And if the answer is no to any of those things, then don't do it.

   6. CWChris Williamson16:25

      Oh, God. My decision-making is going to take a little bit of time if I ... Like, what do I want for breakfast tomorrow? Oh, God. Are these-

   7. MPMassimo Pigliucci16:32

      Yeah.

   8. CWChris Williamson16:32

      ... are these-

   9. MPMassimo Pigliucci16:33

      You know, believe it or not-

   10. CWChris Williamson16:33

       ... Cocoa Pops-

   11. MPMassimo Pigliucci16:34

       ... th- that actually applies even to things like breakfast.

   12. CWChris Williamson16:37

       (sighs) Oh.

   13. MPMassimo Pigliucci16:37

       Um, so-

   14. CWChris Williamson16:37

       I love breakfast.

   15. MPMassimo Pigliucci16:39

       I know. I ... Yeah. I, I, I actually, I don't have breakfast. I usually have just a fruit, but ... and coffee, of course.

   16. CWChris Williamson16:45

       Yes.

   17. MPMassimo Pigliucci16:46

       Definitely coffee.

   18. CWChris Williamson16:47

       Coffee is-

   19. MPMassimo Pigliucci16:47

       All right.

   20. CWChris Williamson16:47

       Coffee meets all of the four criteria.

   21. MPMassimo Pigliucci16:50

       Yeah. Absolutely. (laughs)

   22. CWChris Williamson16:51

       Absolutely. Thank you.

   23. MPMassimo Pigliucci16:52

       No problem.

   24. CWChris Williamson16:52

       It's div- ... It's essentially, I think coffee, uh, to a Stoic would probably be divine.

   25. MPMassimo Pigliucci16:56

       Yeah. So it's, it's ... It really cut- ... comes pretty close. Now, so let's say that you are at work and, um, a coworker is being harassed by your, by your boss and then the question is, well, should you intervene or not? Should, should, sh- ... Do you take the, the, the side of your coworker and basically tell your boss, "Hey, you know, slow down here." Well, let's app- apply the four virtues. The first one is, as I said, practical wisdom. Well, practical wisdom, I put it in terms ... I present it in terms of judgment, but another way to present it is in terms of improving your character, okay? Because judgment and character goes, go well to, you know, go hand-in-hand essentially. If you have a better and better judgment, then that means your character is improving, you're becoming a better person. And vice versa, if you have bad judgment, your character is going down the drain. So if you think of it in terms of character, well, is it good for your character? Of course it is, because you're doing the right thing by your coworker. That is good for your character, that improves your character. If you decide not to do the right thing, that undermines your own character, that undermines your ... you know, it makes you a slightly less, less good person, right? So think of it that way. Is it, is this thing making me a better person or is, or a less good person? Well, clearly intervening makes you a better person. So the first term is a yes. Or is it courageous?It is because we're talking about your boss. So your boss could, could not take, might not take it well, and he might retaliate, and you might los- lose your job or at least get on the s- wrong side of, of the boss. So yes, it does take courage. Uh, what about justice? Is it the just thing to do with, w- as, as far as your coworker is concerned? Yes, obviously, because if you were in, in, in, in the coworker's situation, you would want somebody to step in and help you out. Right? So it's, you're treating him or her-

   26. CWChris Williamson18:53

       Three for three so far.

   27. MPMassimo Pigliucci18:54

       ... yeah, three for three. Now what about temperance? Well, so temperance tells you that you want to do things in the right measure, so that means you don't want to just mumble under your breath about something so that your boss doesn't actually hear it, 'cause that's not enough. You haven't done anything at that point, right? You appeased your conscience, but you haven't done anything. By the same token, however, you also don't want to rush to your boss and punch him on the nose because that seems-

   28. CWChris Williamson19:21

       (laughs)

   29. MPMassimo Pigliucci19:21

       ... like a little bit of an overreaction given the situation.

   30. CWChris Williamson19:23

       Yep.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah. …

   1. MPMassimo Pigliucci30:28

      means that health, although you can influence your health, ultimately the buck doesn't stop with you. It stops to external... with external events, external factors, right? And the same exact thing goes for all the other things that I mentioned. So like your reputation. Sure, I'm sure you're a good guy and you're a nice guy and everything, but, you know, all it takes is a smear campaign against you on social media and you're done. And you have no, no, no way to stop that sort of stuff.

   2. CWChris Williamson30:54

      Yeah.

   3. MPMassimo Pigliucci30:54

      Um, your, your job, your career. Um, obviously the best way to have your... a, a good career is to put, uh, you know, the, the right amount of work into it, to do it seriously, et cetera, et cetera. Sure. But then the economy goes down the drain and you lose your job, right? So that's another external factor. Again, all of those things that are not up to you, then that doesn't mean you can't do anything about them. That's, that's where... that's why the term dichotomy of control is a little bit funny.

   4. CWChris Williamson31:23

      Mm.

   5. MPMassimo Pigliucci31:23

      Because people say, "Well, I can't control them, but I can influence them." Yes, you can.

   6. CWChris Williamson31:27

      Mm-hmm.

   7. MPMassimo Pigliucci31:27

      But the buck doesn't stop with you. It... there's always going to be some external factor that is not under your control that might completely ruin your, your plans. So-

   8. CWChris Williamson31:39

      What, what would you have called it if it wasn't dichotomy of control? Have you considered w- how you would have termed it?

   9. MPMassimo Pigliucci31:46

      Yeah, I don't have a g- good alternate. Part, part of the reason I was stuck with the c- dichotomy of control is because it's catchy and I... nobody's come up with a particular term that-

   10. CWChris Williamson31:54

       A better alternative, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

   11. MPMassimo Pigliucci31:56

       Right. But notice that Epictetus doesn't call it anything. It does- it doesn't give it a name (laughs) in that sense.

   12. CWChris Williamson32:00

       Mm-hmm. So it's, it's one of those... it's one of those things, before gravity, gravity didn't have a name but everyone knew what gravity was.

   13. MPMassimo Pigliucci32:06

       Exactly. So we're stuck with it, that's fine.

   14. CWChris Williamson32:09

       Right. But, but-

   15. MPMassimo Pigliucci32:09

       So long as we understand what, what we... what it, what it is that we're talking about.

   16. CWChris Williamson32:13

       Yeah.

   17. MPMassimo Pigliucci32:13

       Now, the, the practical bit of advice therefore here, and it... this is really crucial. I mean, I apply... I've been practicing Stoicism now for like five and a half years or so, give or take. And the dichotomy of control has become second nature to me. I'll give you an example in just a, just a second. But it's become second nature. So now when something happens, the first thing... the very first thought that occurs to me is, "Okay, what can I do here and what is not under my control? What is it that I can... where, where's my actio- what's actionable and what is not actionable here?" That's basically what it comes down to, to. Now, um, when Epictetus says you should focus on the first and, and then, um, take the rest as it comes, okay, develop an at- an attitude of equanimity toward the outcomes. For instance, let's say you're, you're going out for a job interview, okay, which these days a lot of people are going to have to do once this whole-

   18. CWChris Williamson33:07

       Mm-hmm.

   19. MPMassimo Pigliucci33:07

       ... stuff is, is, is, uh, is ov- is over. Um, well, it comes natural to us to focus on the outcome, right? I want the job. That's, that's what I'm worried about. That's what I... that I... that's what I focus on. But that, according to Epictetus, is exactly the wrong thing to focus on because actually getting the job is not up to you. It's up to your boss, to whoever is int- interviewing you, right? Whoever the... is on the other side. It depends on your competition. It depends on a bunch of things. It depends on random factors like maybe the, the guy who's interviewing you got off the wrong foot of the... off the bed-

   20. CWChris Williamson33:39

       Mm-hmm.

   21. MPMassimo Pigliucci33:39

       ... this morning and he's, he's now... he's in a bad mood, you know, whatever it is. What is up to you? Well, what is up to you is to prepare for the interview, to put together the best resume you can, to take the interview seriously, to dress appropriately, to address people in, in the way that you're expected to, all of that sort of stuff. To focus and not get distracted by other things during the interview. All of those things are up to you. But the notion is that you focus on the things that are up to you and then you say to yourself, "Okay, but this is life and I know that sometimes in life, you know, I'm an adult. I know sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. This may be the time that I'm going to lose and it's okay. I'm okay with that because it's not my fault. If I'd done everything that I could up to the... uh, up to this point, then I don't have myself to blame for anything. It's the circumstances. And guess what? If I don't get the job today, there will be another interview tomorrow or next week or next month," so on and so forth. So the notion is... a- a- another way to think about this is that the notion is to internalize your goals. We tend to externalize goals. We tend to go after outcomes, right? "Oh, um, I want to get married. I want her to say yes." "I want this job. I want to make money." "I want..." All of these are outcomes and none of them are up to us. Only our efforts are up to us. So if you refocus, you know, internal... internally instead of externally, and the, the advantage is, first of all, as you know, there is a pretty tight correlation between the two. The more you actually do a good job internally, the more likely you are to actually in fact succeed externally. You know, the, the two are not unrelated. But you also gain peace of mind because you get into any situation from the start by saying to yourself, "Okay, hopefully it'll go my way but it might not and I'm okay with that."

   22. CWChris Williamson35:32

       Can-

   23. MPMassimo Pigliucci35:32

       And it's... and it's really k- powerful.

   24. CWChris Williamson35:34

       Can, um, taking a philosophy like that lead people to apathy?

   25. MPMassimo Pigliucci35:41

       It's funny you mentioned the word apathy because one of the goals of Stoic practice is what the ancients, uh, uh, refer to as apatheia, which is a Greek word that in fact is the root of apathy, or the word... the English word apathy. But no, that's... the meaning is different. Apatheia was not apathy as we understand it today. Um, the, the root, uh, it... the, the answer is in the root. So apatheia is made of two words, e-a, the first, you know, A, and patheia. A means without. Okay? And patheia means, uh, negative emotions. So to be apathetic for a Stoic doesn't mean that you don't give a, a crap about things. It means that you're not disturbed by negative emotions. You don't have anxiety, you don't have fear, you don't have hatred.

   26. CWChris Williamson36:30

       I much prefer, I much prefer the Athenian-... definition-

   27. MPMassimo Pigliucci36:35

       (laughs)

   28. CWChris Williamson36:35

       ... of the word.

   29. MPMassimo Pigliucci36:36

       Yes.

   30. CWChris Williamson36:36

       That we need ... There's no, um ... there's no modern equivalent-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   I love it. …

   1. MPMassimo Pigliucci45:00

      that Santa Claus keeps coming and coming and coming. It's like, no, sometimes it's just cold. (laughs)

   2. CWChris Williamson45:04

      I love it.

   3. MPMassimo Pigliucci45:05

      And you have to deal with it.

   4. CWChris Williamson45:06

      So let's get some exercises. Let's get some ways that people can apply some of the stuff we've spoken about and then some other principles as well. So you've already touched on one of them-

   5. MPMassimo Pigliucci45:17

      Right.

   6. CWChris Williamson45:17

      ... which is when something happens, when anything happens, try and work out whether it is or it is not within your control, right?

   7. MPMassimo Pigliucci45:26

      Yes, that's right. In fact, um, uh, with my friend and colleague, uh, Gregory Lopez, we have written a whole book of Stoic exercises. It's called, uh, A Handbook for, for New Stoics. I think in UK, the title is Living Like a Stoic or something like that. It's, I don't know for what reason they changed the title. It's confusing. But, um, but anyway, we, we actually, uh, put together a, an entire curriculum for it with 52 different exercises people can sample, uh, and see what works for them and what doesn't work for them. Yes.

   8. CWChris Williamson45:53

      Why don't you give us, why don't you give us your favorite five? Can you give us your top five?

   9. MPMassimo Pigliucci45:58

      Something like that, yeah. Something like that. So one of them is the one that we were, been talking about, and the dichotomy of control exercises can actually be done in the, in the following way. Let's say that you are about to do something, uh, the outcome of which is in doubt, l- such as the job interview that I was talking about before. Well, the way you do the exercise is that in the days before the actual event or the night before, whenever, whatever is convenient for you, whenever you think works for you, you literally sit down and write down, you, you put a piece of paper or, or a spreadsheet, and you get two columns, things under my control, things not under my control. (laughs) And then you start breaking down the situation and listening to yourself, the kind of stuff that is up to you and the kind of stuff that is not up to you. Um, and then the notion being that then on the next several days, you use, before the interview, you use that list to remind yourself. You go back to it and remind yourself to focus on the first column and, and prepare yourself about the second column. So that's one exercise. Another one of my favorite exercises is the, uh, uh, sometimes referred to as the evening meditation, sometimes referred to as, uh, philosophical journaling because you can do it as a, as an actual journal, as writing, writing in a journal. That's the way I do it, but it doesn't have to be a, a journal. This is an exercise that comes, comes from several Stoics, in fact. Uh, Epictetus mentions, uh, explicitly this, this approach in The Enchiridion, and Seneca does it at the end of On Anger. And you can read the entire Meditations of Marcus Aurelius essentially as a journaling exercise because it was, it was his own philosophical diary. That's what it was. Now, the idea here is not to write the Meditations because not, we're no h- every, not everybody's is Marcus, Marcus Aurelius, and you know, we're not that good, uh, writers, and this is certainly not for publication. But the notion is, um, I tend to do it, I try to do it every night, but you could do it at least several times a week. It only takes a few minutes. You sit down, pick a moment before you go to bed. Don't do it in bed, otherwise you fall asleep. Before you go to bed, pick a moment where it's quiet and you can concentrate for a few minutes, and write down, uh, some thoughts about the major things that happened during the day, or even a single major thing that happened during the day. It doesn't have to be comprehensive. Um, and about that thing, ask yourself three questions. Number one, what did I do wrong? Number two, what did I do right? Number three, what could I do different if, differently if this, a similar situation arises again? So what's the point? The first question, um, what did I do wrong? The notion is not to, you know, beat yourself up and say, "Ah, I should've done this. I should've..." Because the past, uh-... is another one of those things that's not up to you. It's outside of your control. You can't change it. You can't go back and, and redo the thing, right? No matter how many times you actually rerun the thing in your, in d, uh, what happened in your mind, you cannot change it. In fact, your stocks would say that's a waste of emotional energy, because you're only going to feel bad about it and that's it. Instead, however, what you do want to do is to learn from your, from your mistakes. Right? So you want to have, you want to write down, it's like, "Okay, this is what I did wrong," because you want to pay attention to it. And then Seneca says, "Immediately forgive yourself." You have the power to forgive yourself. So write it down and then say, "Okay, that's done. Out. I, I learned my lesson, I hope not to do it again, but that's it." Second, what did I do right? Well, part of the reason for doing that is because pat yourself on the back if you do something right, great, um, you know, this is, this is progress. You're making, you're going in the right direction. But also because now you have two points of reference, what you did wrong, what you did right. And the notion is that day by day, you want to move as far away from the first one and as close as possible to the second one. So you want to do fewer and fewer wrong things and more and more right things, right? And so if you keep it in mind as two, sort of two posts, essentially, two reference points, that's helpful. The third thing is, you know, what could I do, have done better? Why engage in the hypothetical? Because, you know, we all like to think of our lives as extremely varied and unpredictable and all sorts of interesting things is going to happen, but usually, that's not the case. We kind of live the same life every day, you know. You, you get up, you go to, to work, you see the same people-

   10. CWChris Williamson50:26

       Especially during lockdown, we lived, we lived the exact-

   11. MPMassimo Pigliucci50:29

       Yes. (laughs)

   12. CWChris Williamson50:29

       ... same life every day-

   13. MPMassimo Pigliucci50:30

       Especially- (laughs)

   14. CWChris Williamson50:30

       ... during lockdown, yeah.

   15. MPMassimo Pigliucci50:31

       Especially now. But even outside, right? So you go to work, you see the same people, you do the same k-kind of things. Then you get back home, you see the same people, you see the same kind of things, and you go out during the weekend and you d- you see friends, those are the same people and you do the same kind of things. Of course, there is variation, of course, sometimes you do something truly novel, but mostly, we tend to be a routine kind of people, you know, we, we do the same thing over and over, which means that it pays off to pay attention when you actually did something wrong because you can, you're gonna start saying, "Okay, well, this one didn't work out very well, but I know this kind of situation is going to happen again, or something very similar is going to happen again, so let me think ahead. The next time that something like this happen, what, what am I gonna do?" And so I can give you a small example of how this works. This is a trivial thing. This, this is the thing that happened years ago. I was walking down in, you know, lower Manhattan. I was with a friend and I was obviously not looking very carefully where I was going. So this other woman who was also look- not looking where she was going (laughs) , so, bumps into me and she had a large St- Starbucks coffee thingy and it's went all over the place. Now, nothing terrible happened. We were both surprised and we both said, you know, "Sorry," and then b- but we both then kept moving, right? And then I thought about it later and I said, "You know, I think that was mostly my fault. I was paying less attention than she was."

   16. CWChris Williamson51:56

       (laughs)

   17. MPMassimo Pigliucci51:56

       So it would have been nice to actually offer her to pay for the coffee. That's, it's a small thing, it's like a couple of b- well, it's Starbucks, so it's more than a couple of bucks, but anyway, um, it's not that much and it would have been a nice gesture to do. The moment was passed, who knows where that woman was, so that's done. But that kind of situation can happen again. You can bump into people and if the next time you're prepared and you say, "You know, if something like that happens again, next time this is what's g- what, what's gonna happen, this is what I'm gonna do," then you're prepared. And Seneca tells you over and over, a prepared mind deals better with situations than an unprepared mind.

   18. CWChris Williamson52:35

       I love that.

   19. MPMassimo Pigliucci52:35

       So that's the point of the exercise.

   20. CWChris Williamson52:37

       The, um, preparing for things by using existing experiences, I've been discussing this an awful, awful lot recently and, um, the analogy that I always use is, if I told you, Massimo, that you were going to fall into some quicksand a week from now, right now, at 7:00, th- three minutes to 8:00 PM on a Wednesday night or whatever it is, um, and I said, "You've got a week to prepare," and you spend the next week, you go online, you research strategies to get out of quicksand, what's the most efficient way, you might even-

   21. MPMassimo Pigliucci53:11

       Right.

   22. CWChris Williamson53:11

       ... dress, dress slightly differently, ready for the quicksand, and then you'd be counting down on you. The difference between that and me just pushing you into some quicksand now and saying, "Good luck-"

   23. MPMassimo Pigliucci53:21

       Right.

   24. CWChris Williamson53:21

       ... the, the difference is-

   25. MPMassimo Pigliucci53:22

       It's huge, right?

   26. CWChris Williamson53:23

       Yeah, ab- ab- absolutely-

   27. MPMassimo Pigliucci53:24

       Huge.

   28. CWChris Williamson53:24

       ... because w- we really, really struggle to make rational decisions when we're in the moment.

   29. MPMassimo Pigliucci53:29

       Mm-hmm.

   30. CWChris Williamson53:29

       And, um, the listeners will be familiar, Michael Malice said to any of his fans who were struggling, he's also living in Brooklyn, in New York, and, uh, he said to any of his fans on his show, he's got these hundreds of thousands of listeners, anyone who's suffering with depression or suicidal ideation, when you're in your best mind, write yourself a letter. Write a letter to you when you are in the depths of feeling down and feeling depressed and tell yourself what you're gonna do. Tell yourself-
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Okay. Okay. …

   1. CWChris Williamson1:00:00

      you label the thought as either see, hear, or feel. So, visual imagery-

   2. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:00:05

      Okay. Okay.

   3. CWChris Williamson1:00:05

      ... uh, auditory, noise within the head or somatic sensation. Label it as that, and then let it go and return to whatever it is that you're doing. And, um, upon having sat on the cushion doing that, that one area of that one practice within this one school, probably maybe 150 hours now, not much more, so not a huge amount of time, certainly not by meditation terms, but not n- not nothing. Um, and that's been maybe a year, year and a half. And now I find myself doing stuff, I'll be walking down the street and I'll, I'll realize, I'll be like, "You're thinking about work later on. Just enjoy the walk. Focus on rest." And you just label it and let it go. And it's, um, there's a degree of satisfaction that, again, we are, don't think we actually have a word for. But there is a-

   4. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:00:51

      Yep.

   5. CWChris Williamson1:00:51

      ... degree of satisfaction-

   6. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:00:52

      That's right.

   7. CWChris Williamson1:00:52

      ... to do with reprogramming your own mind.

   8. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:00:55

      ... absolutely.

   9. CWChris Williamson1:00:56

      ... to be able to do that, and it is-

   10. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:00:59

       Absolutely.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:00:59

       ... there is, there's not many, there's not many great feelings than that, I don't think-

   12. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:01:02

       No, you're right.

   13. CWChris Williamson1:01:02

       ... than, than transcending your own nature.

   14. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:01:04

       You're right, and this is something that, that several traditions have hit on. Uh, the Buddhists have invented techniques to do precisely these kind of things, to sort of, to, to be more mindful and then automating, automating that, that mindfulness. Um, the Stoics, Aristotle, Aristotle kept saying that, you know, the way to improve your character is by practice. It's just the same way in which you get to Carnegie Hall, practice, practice, practice.

   15. CWChris Williamson1:01:28

       I want to... Sorry, I know you're going to keep going. That quote about, um, ex- uh, "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore is not an act, but a habit."

   16. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:01:38

       Right.

   17. CWChris Williamson1:01:38

       What... Was that Aristotle?

   18. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:01:41

       I b- I believe it is Aristotle. I believe it is in the Nicomachean Ethics, but I need to check that.

   19. CWChris Williamson1:01:46

       Okay, 'cause I've seen equal number of blog posts discrediting it and saying it's someone else as saying that it was him.

   20. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:01:54

       No, it's... I, I'm pretty sure it's, it is Aristotle, but... And it may not-

   21. CWChris Williamson1:01:57

       Good.

   22. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:01:57

       ... be the exact quote, it may be something-

   23. CWChris Williamson1:01:58

       No, no, that's fine.

   24. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:01:59

       ... that sounds like it, but-

   25. CWChris Williamson1:01:59

       That's fine. I've got it, I've got it from the equivalent of the horse's mouth, so I'm-

   26. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:02:03

       Yeah (laughs) .

   27. CWChris Williamson1:02:04

       ... I'm happy. You know what I mean? I'm happy.

   28. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:02:06

       Uh, so, so let me give you an example of, of what, what I'm talking about. Um, as you know, we're on a lockdown here. Um, with my wife, we are gonna reach day 40 this coming Friday.

   29. CWChris Williamson1:02:18

       Wow.

   30. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:02:20

       Yeah. So it's, it's going... Yeah, it's interesting situation. Okay. Now, a couple weeks ago, um, in the middle of this thing, um, we, we opened the refrigerator and the refrigerator is not working anymore. It's like, hmm, not a good thing in the middle of a pandemic.
6. 1:15:00 – 1:18:43

   Section 6

   1. MPMassimo Pigliucci1:15:00

      that you very carefully and deliberately work through your- the- the- the worst-case scenario and the way you're gonna- in which you're gonna react to that worst case scenario bit by bit. Now, there are different ways of doing it. The modern way to do it, uh, a popular modern way to do it comes from s- cognitive behavioral therapy. There is, again, there is research here that shows that this does work, and it's in the sa- in the form of a visual meditation. So you close your eyes, and then you s- you kind of slowly go through a- a mental movie basically that- that carefully shows you through your mind's eye what the situation is going, how the situation is gonna unfold and how you're gonna react. The problem with that, there's two problems with that. Number one, it's easy to slip into, um, an emotional s- state when you're doing that sort of stuff, right? You're supposed to do it in a detached fashion. You're supposed to rationally think about what's happening, not emotionally. So, but the problem is that once if you do it in as- as a- as a visual meditation, a lot of people slip into the- the emotional mode, and that's bad because then you actually in- instead of solving, you know, of- of helping yourself, you actually cause yourself anxiety, and that's not a good thing. So you might want to do it, uh, carefully. If you thin- feel it doesn't work for you, then stop doing it, uh, or doing- uh, doing it under the supervision of a kind of behavioral therapist who would actually help you through the- through the stages. However, there's another problem with the... so the- the visualization exercise. Some people, like me, are not good at visualization exercises. If I close my eyes and I start thinking about something, I fall asleep. It's like (snores) I doze off. It's like, "Nope, sorry, that's not gonna do it." Or I get distracted. I, you know, I go somewhere else w- with my mind. So I have to constantly sort of bring back. It's like, "No, no, no." It becomes like a zen meditation. It's just too much work. So the way I do it is- is different. Um, you can either write a letter to yourself or to a friend without actually having to send the letter. You just write it. It's a writing exercise, or you write it as a fictional story, as a short story as if you were to publish a short story on your blog or something like that. Again, you don't have to publish it. It's just for your own use, right? What's the point there? First of all, the- the simple act of writing instead of thinking about it already puts some distance between you and the situation. It makes it more detached, es- especially if you write in second or third person. So if you t- if you imagine that you're writing to a friend or you're writing to somebody else, um, or you write a story in the third person, you know, as a- as a narrator, um, that puts some distance. And this may sound like, oh, you know, like a small thing. There's actually a fairly good research that shows that it makes a huge difference. Don't- don't write that stuff in first person because first person, you get emotional about it. Um, if you notice and if you go through the meditations by Marcus Aurelius, he's written in the second person, okay? He talks to himself in the second person. He never says, "I do this." He say- always says, "You did that." Okay? And so he had- he had this notion already way, you know, 2,000 years before modern psychology that it's a better thing if you- if you actually detach yourself from- from this kind of stuff. So the pre- the premeditation of adversity, I think, is very good because, on the one hand, if you do it right, it helps you exercise, you know, your fears and your anxieties, um, because it becomes a way to externally, you know, objectively look at the situation instead of worry about the situation, and it also prepares you for that situation should- should that kind of stuff actually happens, um, you know, then- then you actually already have this certain scenario worked out in your mind for how you'd react. So that was exercise number four, I guess.

Episode duration: 1:26:31