A Hacker In Your Pocket | How Your Smartphone Is Short Circuiting Your Brain

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (wind blowing) Hi, friends. So…

   1. CWChris Williamson0:00

      (wind blowing) Hi, friends. So it's been a couple of weeks since the last episode. I know that I promised (laughs) I was going to do one every single week, and I've, uh, fallen within the first month of that. However, I have a good excuse. I was away in Palma on a yacht and then in Dubai with my dad. It's a hard life, I know. (laughs) This week I'm sitting down with Yusuf and Johnny from Propain Fitness, and this is probably my most anticipated episode to date. When I say "mine," I mean by myself, not by anybody else. Um, we're gonna be discussing the ethical use of technology and how social networks, social media manipulates our cognitive biases and uses unseen persuasion techniques to keep you on site. Now all of this might sound a little tinfoil-hatty, but I promise you it's not. It is, as far as I'm concerned, probably one of the biggest and most important issues that we've got going on at the moment if you think about how ubiquitous phone use is amongst everybody on the planet. The Cambridge Analytica scandal which recently came out where it turned out that some users on Facebook's data had been illegally acquired and manipulated caused absolute uproar. And all that was happening there was people were being targeted with ads, and some of their data had been stolen. Your phone is stealing your time, and that's the one resource that we can't get any of it back. That, to me, is a much bigger scandal that needs to be spoken about. Our phones are with us more than any partner, any friend, any family member, any pet, probably any other item that we own. They're with us every single step of the way, and they're possessions that we cherish to a degree and that we live our lives through. They're a window between us and the world. They mediate our experience of the external world. And they manipulate our experience and our judgment of other people, both celebrity and friend. It's something that we put an awful lot of faith into. And yet our brains are being hacked by billion-dollar companies, and behind every press of every button on your phone, there is a team of software engineers who have manipulated you into pressing that particular button in order to keep you on site because they need your attention because that is how the money is made on that particular platform. (inhales) So hopefully you'll come out of this understanding the tactics that are being used to keep you on your phone. You'll be more aware of why and how this is happening. And also we will give you some tips and some strategies that you can implement to mitigate the amount of time that you get trapped within your phone. So without further ado, here we go.

   2. JOJonny3:14

      I think someone was selling a dildo on Facebook Marketplace yesterday. Rampant Rabbit.

   3. YUYusef3:20

      Who, that, did you, is that the thing where you said-

   4. JOJonny3:21

      I might, I might've sent it to you both.

   5. YUYusef3:22

      Yeah. You said, "Don't, don't believe when you say it's not being used."

   6. JOJonny3:25

      Yeah. Well, I mean, why, why else are you selling it? Like, who buys-

   7. YUYusef3:28

      Well, because it hasn't been used.

   8. JOJonny3:30

      Maybe it was a gift, and they thought-

   9. YUYusef3:32

      Yeah, they have two of them.

   10. JOJonny3:34

       Hmm. Still, I wouldn't trust it. I would, I mean-

   11. CWChris Williamson3:37

       Someone could have, someone could have been purchased too thinking that they wanted that.

   12. JOJonny3:41

       They bought it online. (laughs)

   13. CWChris Williamson3:42

       And they didn't. They, they overestimated their sexual appetite.

   14. JOJonny3:47

       capacity. I see. So either-

   15. YUYusef3:49

       Or if she's doing it.

   16. JOJonny3:50

       ... they double-tapped the Add to Cart button or they tried it, didn't like it. Either way, I'm not putting it in my vagina. I think it's a...

   17. CWChris Williamson3:58

       Well, it's not just the vagina, is it potentially?

   18. JOJonny4:00

       Or, or bum. Yeah, you're right.

   19. YUYusef4:02

       I think you can put it anywhere, and that's what's, that's what's so great about them.

   20. JOJonny4:04

       Yeah, we shouldn't discriminate. I think that's very judgmental of us to assume vagina.

   21. CWChris Williamson4:10

       Judgmental on who? People that prefer anal?

   22. JOJonny4:13

       Yeah.

   23. YUYusef4:13

       People with or without vaginas.

   24. JOJonny4:14

       We need to be nice to...

   25. CWChris Williamson4:16

       Docking. You could use it for docking.

   26. YUYusef4:18

       Docking.

   27. CWChris Williamson4:18

       Use the second one for docking.

   28. YUYusef4:21

       Can you explain in the clearest possible way what docking is?

   29. JOJonny4:26

       It's when a man interpenetrates another man with his...

   30. YUYusef4:31

       With a tool.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   YouTube ads or YouTube…

   1. CWChris Williamson15:00

      our attention. So if YouTube adds autoplay, which they only did within the last 18 months, or last two years, YouTube adds autoplay under the next video, that upped their, um, time on site by between five and 10%.

   2. JOJonny15:13

      YouTube ads or YouTube videos?

   3. CWChris Williamson15:15

      YouTube added.

   4. JOJonny15:17

      Added. Oh, okay. Ads.

   5. CWChris Williamson15:18

      Autoplay of the next- Oh, right. (laughs)

   6. JOJonny15:21

      Ads, with a double D.

   7. CWChris Williamson15:22

      I thought, yeah. I was still- That's just an ad- ... trying to- That's just an advertiser. That's a, that's a market- (laughs) That's a market- (laughs) ... mind there, isn't it? Yeah (laughs) . Um, so YouTube- My eyes. Oh my God, I need- (laughs) . (laughs) . ... to, I need to go and do this. Um- Do we need to- ... YouTube, YouTube added in autoplay the next video, that increased their time on site by five to 10%. There's only so many hours in the day so that five to 10% has come from somewhere. It's either come from someone's spare time or it's been taken from Facebook or Twitter or- Mm-hmm. ... Google or whatever it is. And what that means is that Facebook now needs to do autoplay videos as you scroll down. They need to up their armory. It's like an arms race. Mm-hmm. It's an arms race to see who can use the most number of manipulative cognitive bias, uh, affecting techniques- To get you. ... to get you to stay on site. And the fact of the matter is that the economy reflects the more time that someone spends on a site, the more value that company has. Mm-hmm. Because the revenue is generated through advertising and advertising is mostly based on how much exposure are people gonna get. How much exposure is directly equal to how much time on site. If you can get people to stay on site, irrelevant of whether or not they want to, you make more money. Yeah.

   8. JOJonny16:33

      So-

   9. CWChris Williamson16:33

      A bit shit when you look at it like that.

   10. JOJonny16:35

       The ... An example-

   11. CWChris Williamson16:36

       It is a bit shit.

   12. JOJonny16:36

       ... that I think, that I think he mentioned in this and it, it definitely catches me every single time.

   13. CWChris Williamson16:41

       (laughs) .

   14. JOJonny16:41

       And this is, th- th- this really hurts my pride because I, I see, I like to see myself as somebody who is-

   15. CWChris Williamson16:48

       Is it the gay porn websites?

   16. JOJonny16:49

       ... able to ... It's, it's the gay porn. I every-

   17. CWChris Williamson16:50

       (laughs) .

   18. JOJonny16:50

       Always find myself (laughs) -

   19. CWChris Williamson16:51

       Like, "Bloody hell." (laughs)

   20. JOJonny16:53

       It's, I- I like to pride myself in somebody who can maintain cognitive effort on a single task, having meditated for so long, or at least tried to train for this thing.

   21. CWChris Williamson17:03

       I, you're easily the best person I know at that single thing.

   22. JOJonny17:06

       And yet-

   23. CWChris Williamson17:06

       The best meditator. The b- the best, like single focus. Like, if he's gonna do something- Cal Newport deep work. ... sit and do it, yeah.

   24. JOJonny17:11

       And yet, I am still defenseless against like, "Okay, I need to quickly check when that person's birthday is on Facebook."

   25. CWChris Williamson17:17

       Go on.

   26. JOJonny17:17

       And then 10 minutes later-

   27. CWChris Williamson17:19

       (laughs) .

   28. JOJonny17:19

       ... you've closed the tab, you've done-

   29. CWChris Williamson17:20

       (clears throat) .

   30. JOJonny17:20

       ... loads of other things and you're like, "Hang on."
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   But yeah, but it…

   1. JOJonny30:00

      you. Like you're still driving a car that's, uh, so-

   2. CWChris Williamson30:02

      But yeah, but it was, it was a danger to other motorists.

   3. YUYusef30:04

      You, you didn't realize-

   4. CWChris Williamson30:05

      It was a £900 danger to other motorists.

   5. JOJonny30:07

      Supposedly.

   6. YUYusef30:08

      That's like saying you-

   7. JOJonny30:09

      But who needs brakes anyway?

   8. YUYusef30:10

      But you know, you should have gone, you should have gone... I warned you, you should have gone to our guy.

   9. JOJonny30:14

      I should.

   10. CWChris Williamson30:14

       We've got a guy.

   11. YUYusef30:16

       That doesn't surprise me at all, Chris.

   12. JOJonny30:17

       (laughs)

   13. CWChris Williamson30:17

       We have a guy, he looks it up and down, he kicks the tires a bit. He goes, "Aye, sound that."

   14. YUYusef30:21

       No, that's fine.

   15. CWChris Williamson30:21

       Fucking guy. Turn, turn them back on again.

   16. JOJonny30:24

       We, we have a saying in Egypt that brakes are for pansies, so.

   17. CWChris Williamson30:28

       Do you?

   18. JOJonny30:29

       No. (laughs)

   19. CWChris Williamson30:30

       (laughs)

   20. JOJonny30:30

       But the, the driving test in Egypt is drive 10 meters forwards, drive 10 meters backwards.

   21. CWChris Williamson30:35

       Easiest place in the world to, to pass your driving test, right?

   22. JOJonny30:38

       Yeah, if you practice.

   23. YUYusef30:39

       I imagine it's carnage.

   24. JOJonny30:40

       It is.

   25. YUYusef30:40

       (laughs)

   26. JOJonny30:41

       Like people, it, reversing up a slip road is a common maneuver.

   27. YUYusef30:44

       (laughs)

   28. CWChris Williamson30:47

       (laughs)

   29. YUYusef30:47

       That's why you've got a dash cam.

   30. JOJonny30:49

       Yeah.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   That is mental, isn't…

   1. CWChris Williamson45:00

      which is a million votes more than was cast in the last US presidential election.

   2. YUYusef45:05

      That is mental, isn't it?

   3. CWChris Williamson45:07

      (laughs)

   4. YUYusef45:07

      So what you... F- fuck Cambridge Analytica.

   5. CWChris Williamson45:10

      Yeah. Harness, harness PornHub.

   6. YUYusef45:11

      Someone speak to the bloke who owns PornHub.

   7. JOJonny45:13

      We need to know how many uniques there are, because otherwise-

   8. YUYusef45:17

      (laughs)

   9. JOJonny45:17

      (laughs)

   10. CWChris Williamson45:18

       (laughs)

   11. JOJonny45:18

       B- B- Because that, that could be one guy voting 120 million times.

   12. YUYusef45:23

       Yeah, that bloke's got a lot of time, hasn't he?

   13. JOJonny45:25

       He's got... Yeah.

   14. YUYusef45:25

       That, that's a guy-

   15. JOJonny45:27

       (laughs)

   16. YUYusef45:27

       ... really focusing on time well spent, isn't he?

   17. CWChris Williamson45:29

       (laughs) Yeah.

   18. YUYusef45:29

       You know what I want to know? And I have a burning desire to know this, is how many people pay for PornHub premium.

   19. JOJonny45:37

       Oh, yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson45:38

       They're not, they're, they're definitely not gonna reveal that, are they? Because it would be terrifyingly low, because the-

   21. YUYusef45:43

       I, so I bet you it isn't.

   22. CWChris Williamson45:44

       ... the variety of content that you get already on PornHub just, like-

   23. YUYusef45:48

       Well, so, so they're operating the freemium model, so they, they over-deliver on the front end.

   24. CWChris Williamson45:52

       (laughs)

   25. YUYusef45:52

       And, and what that makes everybody think is, "Holy fuck, what must the paid model look like?"

   26. JOJonny45:57

       Uh, are they publicly listed?

   27. CWChris Williamson45:58

       So jab, jab, jab, right hook.

   28. YUYusef45:59

       J- Exactly, yeah. (laughs)

   29. CWChris Williamson46:00

       Gary.

   30. YUYusef46:01

       It's just Gary Vaynerchuk behind the whole thing.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:08:25

   This £1,000- …

   1. JOJonny1:00:00

      annoying us.

   2. CWChris Williamson1:00:00

      This £1,000-

   3. YUYusef1:00:00

      We- we've been really excited about buying-

   4. CWChris Williamson1:00:02

      This £1,000 a year investment, this £1,000 a year investment that is with us 24 hours a day, the most ubiquitous piece of technology that's ever existed, and we're having to come up with strategies to try and fight back against billion dollar companies.

   5. JOJonny1:00:15

      (laughs)

   6. YUYusef1:00:15

      But it, it's- it's really powerful, which makes it fantastic in many ways. Like, the things you can do with it are brilliant.

   7. CWChris Williamson1:00:21

      Unbelievable. But-

   8. YUYusef1:00:22

      But that, it- it, everything has a side effect, doesn't it? In how it affects-

   9. CWChris Williamson1:00:24

      How much, how much of the, how much of what we're talking about is time well spent? Like, because for me, like, it, the, uh, Tristan came up with some good, some good, um, stats on it and he says that number one, two and three, Facebook, Instagram and Snapchat, the three most regretted uses of apps. And I think that, um, one, two and three of the, on the opposite end of the scale was MyFitnessPal actually-

   10. JOJonny1:00:50

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:00:51

       ... weirdly enough as one of the ones that's-

   12. YUYusef1:00:52

       As not regretted.

   13. CWChris Williamson1:00:53

       Yeah, yeah. As Heidi, um, podcasts and, uh, mindfulness apps.

   14. YUYusef1:00:56

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JOJonny1:00:56

       Yeah, you never like sit and think, "Oh, I wish I hadn't wasted so much time on MyFitnessPal today." Like it's-

   16. CWChris Williamson1:01:00

       Yeah.

   17. YUYusef1:01:01

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JOJonny1:01:01

       It's kind of-

   19. CWChris Williamson1:01:02

       It's been productive. Like you don't, you don't go in and scroll through and like spend too much time looking at like whether-

   20. YUYusef1:01:08

       (laughs)

   21. CWChris Williamson1:01:08

       ... whether Daz Charles hit his macro-

   22. YUYusef1:01:10

       (laughs)

   23. JOJonny1:01:10

       That's true.

   24. CWChris Williamson1:01:11

       ... mac- macro.

   25. YUYusef1:01:11

       Yeah.

   26. JOJonny1:01:12

       Um, even though they try to, but the other thing for me is I've never had Facebook on my phone.And Facebook for me, out of those apps is the most, used to be the most compulsive. But now on the Mac as well, I've got a mod that stops the newsfeed from showing up. And so now I, I never-

   27. CWChris Williamson1:01:29

       It's just Chrome newsfeed blocker, I think it's called or something like that.

   28. JOJonny1:01:32

       Maybe, yeah. So I- I only use it for-

   29. YUYusef1:01:34

       I got that as well. Purity.

   30. JOJonny1:01:37

       Yep, Facebook Purity.

Episode duration: 1:13:18