Autism is the New Stolen Valor - Trevor Wallace (4K)

1. 0:00 – 11:12

   Are Men Attracted to Autism?

   1. TWTrevor Wallace0:00

      That's really- how do I, how do I look? Cool, silence. All right, it's, [laughing] it's, uh... Does anybody- [laughing] you have 19 people on set, and everyone's like, "I don't wanna tell him he looks like shit."

   2. CWChris Williamson0:10

      No, it's fine. It's just moving.

   3. TWTrevor Wallace0:12

      Yeah, see, there we go.

   4. CWChris Williamson0:15

      Look at this. [laughing] Yes, dude.

   5. TWTrevor Wallace0:19

      Is that better?

   6. CWChris Williamson0:19

      See, now this is the problem. Now, now that you've asked for feedback, all that you've got-

   7. TWTrevor Wallace0:22

      Yeah, I know, yeah

   8. CWChris Williamson0:23

      ... All you've got is like neuroaticism and judgment.

   9. TWTrevor Wallace0:25

      You're like, "Okay, yeah, and can you write some better jokes?" I'm like, [laughing] "Dude, I'm doing my outfit."

   10. CWChris Williamson0:28

       Trevor Wallace, welcome to the show.

   11. TWTrevor Wallace0:29

       Hey, thanks for having me, Chris.

   12. CWChris Williamson0:31

       Vogue published an article saying, "Having a boyfriend is embarrassing now." Meanwhile-

   13. TWTrevor Wallace0:36

       I don't have one.

   14. CWChris Williamson0:38

       I figured. Meanwhile-

   15. TWTrevor Wallace0:39

       Okay

   16. CWChris Williamson0:39

       ... Men are on dating apps saying that they're looking for a slightly autistic woman. Swaths of men saying they want a girl with a touch of the 'tism.

   17. TWTrevor Wallace0:47

       Okay, I just want the touch. I don't even care about the 'tism, you know what I mean? Like, if... Whatever they bring to the table, I'm... Well, I, you know what it is? Autistic women, like, from my experience, they're just passionate. They're just, like, I just... That's all I've ever wanted, dating somebody, somebody who's passionate about something.

   18. CWChris Williamson1:05

       Mm.

   19. TWTrevor Wallace1:05

       Whether it's a career or, or, or, you know, uh, trains. Like, whatever you're g- passionate on, I'm passionate for you.

   20. CWChris Williamson1:14

       Well, you were saying that about, uh, hot girls that are just good at anything-

   21. TWTrevor Wallace1:19

       Mm-hmm

   22. CWChris Williamson1:19

       ... chess or DJ-ing-

   23. TWTrevor Wallace1:21

       Mm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm

   24. CWChris Williamson1:21

       ... or crochet stitching or something.

   25. TWTrevor Wallace1:23

       Mm-hmm.

   26. CWChris Williamson1:23

       That that is a, a niche-

   27. TWTrevor Wallace1:25

       Yeah

   28. CWChris Williamson1:26

       ... that I think you're right as well. I think we like anybody that really loves-

   29. TWTrevor Wallace1:31

       I just want you to love something.

   30. CWChris Williamson1:33

       Yeah.
2. 11:12 – 22:48

   What Trevor Really Thinks of Charlie Sheen

   1. TWTrevor Wallace11:12

      [laughing]

   2. CWChris Williamson11:12

      Well, I don't know. Charlie Sheen seems, seems to be doing pretty well.

   3. TWTrevor Wallace11:14

      Yeah.

   4. CWChris Williamson11:15

      He's crushing it.

   5. TWTrevor Wallace11:15

      He's doing great.

   6. CWChris Williamson11:16

      Did you watch that documentary with him?

   7. TWTrevor Wallace11:17

      I did.

   8. CWChris Williamson11:18

      Dude, I thought that was g- I thought that was one of the best things that I've seen.

   9. TWTrevor Wallace11:21

      I-

   10. CWChris Williamson11:21

       That story at the very beginning where he's absolutely hammered, and the pilot's like-

   11. TWTrevor Wallace11:27

       The pilot

   12. CWChris Williamson11:28

       ... "Hey, come and sit down. Wouldn't it be funny if I put your uniform on? Wouldn't it be funny if I did..." It's like, honestly, he was one step away from, "Wouldn't it be funny if we just, like, you know, blew each other?"

   13. TWTrevor Wallace11:35

       Oh, [chuckles] I thought, I, I thought you were going a different direction. I thought you were going more New York with that. But, um, yeah, one thing I re... Yeah, well, I mean, like, watching that documentary was so cool. I love watching, uh, just, like, the, uh, the upbringing of people's success stories. Like, I used to, in college, go on, like, every famous person I admired, like Wikipedia, and I would just be like, "How did they get from A to B to C to D? Like, how did they become who they are?" And I'd be fascinated. So seeing all this and finding out that Charlie Sheen was a nepo baby, uh, blew my mind. I'm like, "Oh, your dad was a famous actor? You're, you're best friends with, um-"... you know the guy growing up. [chuckles] I'm like, "Dude, you had no choice but to be an actor."

   14. CWChris Williamson12:15

       Sean Penn?

   15. TWTrevor Wallace12:16

       Sean Penn.

   16. CWChris Williamson12:16

       Yep.

   17. TWTrevor Wallace12:17

       Yeah, so but I, I mean, uh, all bits aside, I thought it was really cool just, like, watching his upbringing and how he got like-- what, what did he get offered, Karate Kid-

   18. CWChris Williamson12:26

       Mm-hmm

   19. TWTrevor Wallace12:26

       ... or something?

   20. CWChris Williamson12:26

       Yeah, and he'd already made some commitment with his dad.

   21. TWTrevor Wallace12:28

       Yeah, and it-

   22. CWChris Williamson12:28

       Said, "Oh, you've got to stick to your word with this thing," and I don't know. I mean, Charlie Sheen is a really good example of someone who-- he, I mean, he says it himself, basically, he learned the lesson that actions don't have consequences-

   23. TWTrevor Wallace12:43

       Mm.

   24. CWChris Williamson12:43

       -that he, he can kind of-

   25. TWTrevor Wallace12:46

       Do whatever

   26. CWChris Williamson12:47

       ... implode, get, torpedo the situation, and usually end up not only landing on his feet but landing on his feet, like, three fucking levels higher-

   27. TWTrevor Wallace12:56

       Yeah, he was-

   28. CWChris Williamson12:56

       -than he was previously

   29. TWTrevor Wallace12:57

       ... failing forward in a lot of this.

   30. CWChris Williamson12:58

       Correct.
3. 22:48 – 26:23

   How Much is Too Much Caffeine?

   1. TWTrevor Wallace22:48

      in.

   2. CWChris Williamson22:48

      Uh, I need to talk about how much you drink Celsius.

   3. TWTrevor Wallace22:51

      Let's talk about it.

   4. CWChris Williamson22:52

      Yeah, it's too much.

   5. TWTrevor Wallace22:53

      Do I drink a lot of it? I, you know-

   6. CWChris Williamson22:55

      You talk about it.

   7. TWTrevor Wallace22:56

      Mm.

   8. CWChris Williamson22:56

      It's your go-to... It's like the canonical, "I'm, I need caffeine. I talk about this drink," drink.

   9. TWTrevor Wallace23:03

      Yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson23:03

       Uh, we got a cease and desist from a large energy company, um, because of something that my co-founder said for, the co-founder for this thing. Um-

   11. TWTrevor Wallace23:14

       What did they say?

   12. CWChris Williamson23:15

       Uh, they said that we made-

   13. TWTrevor Wallace23:17

       Gives you wings?

   14. CWChris Williamson23:18

       Uh, they may have said that. W- what he said was, this... And we have this, like, I'm gonna, it's printed off and framed. Um, uh, like, "As is seen in exhibit 9.3.2, uh, your, uh, Mr. Smith said that our client's drink, quote, 'tastes like piss' and is, quote, 'consumed by chronic masturbators.'" Um-

   15. TWTrevor Wallace23:40

       Are we still talking about the incel guy?

   16. CWChris Williamson23:43

       [laughing] Anyway, uh, I want to get you off Celsius.

   17. TWTrevor Wallace23:45

       Please, yeah, se- send me, send me these.

   18. CWChris Williamson23:48

       Yeah, yeah. You need more. You need something to pull it back-

   19. TWTrevor Wallace23:49

       Um, yeah, Celsius, I mean, it's just, like, the energy drink game is... I mean, dude, they're, they're supercharging, they're spiking Panera lemonades.

   20. CWChris Williamson23:59

       What the-

   21. TWTrevor Wallace24:00

       Dude, Panera- Do you know Panera Bread? You don't know Panera Bread? Holy shit, you're rich. Panera Bread is like, uh, French Subway. Do you know-

   22. CWChris Williamson24:08

       Oh, no, I've been past-

   23. TWTrevor Wallace24:08

       Do you know Subways?

   24. CWChris Williamson24:09

       I, I went into one.

   25. TWTrevor Wallace24:10

       Panera, so they put out this, like, lemonade, a char- double charged lemonade. It has 400 milligrams of caffeine.

   26. CWChris Williamson24:16

       Okay. Was this something that killed kids?

   27. TWTrevor Wallace24:17

       Killed two people.

   28. CWChris Williamson24:17

       Yes, yes, yes.

   29. TWTrevor Wallace24:18

       Two people.

   30. CWChris Williamson24:18

       Yes, I have seen this.
4. 26:23 – 38:23

   How Trevor Stays On Top Form

   1. CWChris Williamson26:23

      you seem like a, a pretty positive guy overall.

   2. TWTrevor Wallace26:27

      You think?

   3. CWChris Williamson26:28

      I'd say so. I mean, I don't know how much of it is-

   4. TWTrevor Wallace26:30

      Yeah

   5. CWChris Williamson26:30

      ... you know, comedic persona versus sort of genuine disposition. At least in my experience, like, having spent a good bit of time around comedians, most, most people's comedic personas are just kind of like a tuned-up version of who they are.

   6. TWTrevor Wallace26:42

      Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson26:42

      Very few of them are a total U-turn, like someone who's crazy extroverted and outgoing on stage but is like, doesn't-

   8. TWTrevor Wallace26:50

      Mm

   9. CWChris Williamson26:50

      ... have any of that energy internally. 'Cause I, I don't think that the depth of insight, you... I don't think that people would be able to get that. Like, Jimmy Carr is a great example-

   10. TWTrevor Wallace26:59

       Correct

   11. CWChris Williamson26:59

       ... of this. Like, Jimmy is just more Jimmy-

   12. TWTrevor Wallace27:02

       Mm

   13. CWChris Williamson27:02

       ... on stage and less Jimmy when he's in private. Um, but I see a good bit of sort of cynicism on the internet, and, like, a good few reasons to be cynical. And there's lots of stuff that's hard, and fucking people have got bullshit jobs and neurodivergence, and the world's going to shit and all this stuff. I'm interested in-

   14. TWTrevor Wallace27:21

       Yeah

   15. CWChris Williamson27:21

       ... where that positivity, or, like, how you combat cynicism, even in the world of comedy. Like, there's a lot of cynicism, backbiting, like, dramary stuff.

   16. TWTrevor Wallace27:29

       Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson27:29

       I don't know, I just think it's a... Like, that kind of resilience seems to be pretty good for you.

   18. TWTrevor Wallace27:33

       As long as I'm working, I'm pretty happy. I, I find happiness in work. I find happiness in being productive. Um, where I get down in my head is when all this work I'm doing feels like it's for nothing, when I hit a streak, and there's a streak of videos that are all getting shit. And I'm going, "But I'm working so hard, and it's not doing well," that's when I can really... Th- that's when it, my, like, uh, you know, toxic trait is-

   19. CWChris Williamson27:57

       Yeah

   20. TWTrevor Wallace27:57

       ... I hone in only on that week. I don't look at anything else I've done. I don't look at any other accomplishments or any other videos. I go, "But these four videos in the past week ate shit. Does that mean I'm shit?" And I get super in my head about that, but, but now it's like I kind of catch that and go, "Okay, well, you're probably overworked 'cause this didn't bother you in the past." It's like, okay, well, when was the last time I got any exercise? When was the last time I went to the gym? When I- when did I do anything for myself to get out of this rut? So that's when I can kind of, like, catch it. But as far as positivity, it's like there's just... I just love what I do so much that by doing this, it's... I'm living my dream every day, so it's like, why wouldn't I be happy? The, the, the times I get mad is when I'm on some bullshit general meeting with Tubi, and they're like, "So what's your show idea?" "Fuck you. How about that? 'Cause it's not gonna happen. We're gonna... I'm gonna pitch a show. You're gonna give your shit notes, I'm gonna give my notes, and then it just stays in this rut for hours."

   21. CWChris Williamson28:52

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   22. TWTrevor Wallace28:53

       I love the internet because I can have an idea right now. I can leave here, film it, upload it, connect with my people.

   23. CWChris Williamson28:59

       Mm-hmm.

   24. TWTrevor Wallace28:59

       And, like, there's no middle ground.

   25. CWChris Williamson29:00

       There's no gatekeeper.

   26. TWTrevor Wallace29:01

       No, there's so many gatekeepers in, in, uh, the industry, and I just feel like creativity is a rare feeling, and you have to strike on it when it hits. And, and what's funny today might not be funny tomorrow, might not be funny in a year, might not be funny in five years, 10 years, whatever it is. So when creativity hits, it's a blessing, and you can't block it. You can't-

   27. CWChris Williamson29:21

       Mm.

   28. TWTrevor Wallace29:22

       Like, i- if you're feeling creative, make that video. If you're... If- don't be like, "Well, I'll make it tomorrow morning when I have more free time." It's like, no, 'cause you're gonna get to the next morning, and you're gonna be like, "What was that?

   29. CWChris Williamson29:31

       Yeah.

   30. TWTrevor Wallace29:32

       How did I end that again? What was the..." And you're not gonna feel that spark.
5. 38:23 – 45:45

   Why We All Need a Healthy Obsession

   1. CWChris Williamson38:24

      Winning in the Weeds, with stuff like that, i- it's interesting that you said, um, the sort of dark sides and light sides to that. It's amazing when it comes to refining a, a bit down. There's this great video of Mark Norman talking about the, um, "I met a girl on that Jewish dating app. What's it called? PayPal." And it's a video of him from when he first has the idea, and he's sat in his car, and then it... I don't know what-- I don't think he has a video guy that follows him all the time, but he must have done for this.

   2. TWTrevor Wallace38:52

      Yeah, it's a documentary.

   3. CWChris Williamson38:53

      And he's iterating and iterating and iterating, and he, like, tried Venmo, and he tried, like, Cash App-

   4. TWTrevor Wallace38:57

      Yeah

   5. CWChris Williamson38:57

      ... and he tried PayPal, and o- on the, the timing and everything, and you watch the, you know, whatever it is, 15 seconds per night change, like-

   6. TWTrevor Wallace39:06

      Yeah

   7. CWChris Williamson39:07

      ... slowly, incrementally over time. And, um, that is another type of obsession. You can't not do it. I can't not think about this joke. I can't not think about this podcast. I can't not think about, for me, some of the ideas I've got. I just go into bed trying to fucking get my brain to chill out, and I-

   8. TWTrevor Wallace39:22

      I can't

   9. CWChris Williamson39:23

      ... I'm obsessing-

   10. TWTrevor Wallace39:23

       I'll, I'll be laying there-

   11. CWChris Williamson39:24

       ... obsessing.

   12. TWTrevor Wallace39:24

       - roll over to my notes app.

   13. CWChris Williamson39:25

       Yep.

   14. TWTrevor Wallace39:25

       But, um, my eyes are closed, "Oh, gosh," because that's part of the obsession.

   15. CWChris Williamson39:29

       Yes, because I'm, like, very, very staunch with phone can't be in bedroom.

   16. TWTrevor Wallace39:33

       Mm-hmm.

   17. CWChris Williamson39:33

       My solution for this has been I leave my AirPods out of the case on the bedside table next to me, and then I put them in, and it goes, "ba-ding!" I go, "Tomorrow at 10:00 a.m., remind me that an unteachable lesson is you should lie in a hammock more," or whatever. But then it tries to transcribe it, and I wake up the next day, and at least 50%-

   18. TWTrevor Wallace39:53

       Yeah

   19. CWChris Williamson39:53

       ... of the time, it's fucking gibberish.

   20. TWTrevor Wallace39:54

       Yeah, you should lay in a hamcock more.

   21. CWChris Williamson39:56

       [laughing]

   22. TWTrevor Wallace39:56

       And you're like, "Ugh, is that what they're selling at Greggs these days?"

   23. CWChris Williamson39:59

       [chuckles] I'm like, "Oh, fuck."

   24. TWTrevor Wallace40:02

       Yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson40:02

       But anyway, that, like... You're, you're right, and I think, um, it's brilliant and is lauded, quite rightly so, seeing someone that's a craftsman. It, th- th- this-

   26. TWTrevor Wallace40:12

       But I love it, yeah.

   27. CWChris Williamson40:13

       The guy that owns this place, you know, it's evident that he really fucking cares about the cars, and he's tinkering with them, working on them.

   28. TWTrevor Wallace40:18

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson40:18

       Like, isn't that fucking cool? But also, when you try and have that in your private life... No?

   30. TWTrevor Wallace40:25

       Sorry, what was saying? The battery's dead-
6. 45:45 – 51:50

   The Importance of Creative Outlets for Battling Self-Doubt

   1. TWTrevor Wallace45:45

      the funny.

   2. CWChris Williamson45:45

      This is something that, [sniffs] I... Another question that comes up at the live shows is, uh, "How do you retain what you learn?" I'm not particularly good at it.

   3. TWTrevor Wallace45:53

      Mm.

   4. CWChris Williamson45:53

      I think I've just, like, been exposed to lot- It'll be episode one thousand and twenty of the show-

   5. TWTrevor Wallace45:58

      Mm

   6. CWChris Williamson45:58

      ... or something. So even if I took, you know, 1% from every episode-

   7. TWTrevor Wallace46:02

      Yeah

   8. CWChris Williamson46:02

      ... it's still tons of stuff. Um, I think one of the things that people struggle with, that you've identified there, is if you don't have an outlet, there is very little motivation for why you're looking for stuff. You're not scavenging for ideas if there isn't some publish that's happening.

   9. TWTrevor Wallace46:21

      Right.

   10. CWChris Williamson46:22

       If you're not going to turn it into a song or draw it in a, in a illustration-

   11. TWTrevor Wallace46:25

       Some expression.

   12. CWChris Williamson46:26

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, or talk about it on a podcast or write about it in a blog post, or you put it on stage for a comedy special or whatever. Like, if you on, if you don't have a reason to do it, for the most part, you're probably not going to be as motivated to-

   13. TWTrevor Wallace46:39

       Mm

   14. CWChris Williamson46:39

       ... really, really seek this stuff out.

   15. TWTrevor Wallace46:41

       Yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson46:41

       And I think it's, it's a good... I, I couldn't agree more about the no gatekeeper, frictionless thing. That's why Substack is so great.

   17. TWTrevor Wallace46:50

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson46:50

       Like, nobody needs to understand how to build a website or have a lead magnet or a fucking-

   19. TWTrevor Wallace46:54

       Yeah

   20. CWChris Williamson46:54

       ... capture form. It's, like, social media blogging. Go on, I, I have an idea, and if it's good, there's an ecosystem of people there that will go, "This is great," and they'll reshare it, and now you're a writer.

   21. TWTrevor Wallace47:04

       Mm-hmm.

   22. CWChris Williamson47:05

       You're like, nobody stops you from being a writer anymore.

   23. TWTrevor Wallace47:07

       Yeah.

   24. CWChris Williamson47:07

       You can be a writer, like, tomorrow.

   25. TWTrevor Wallace47:08

       Yeah.

   26. CWChris Williamson47:09

       But if you don't have some sort of an outlet, and this is one of the sort of commonalities that I've seen with people that ask, like, "How do I retain what I learn?" or, um, "How do I find better ideas?" or whatever it might be. It's like, well, is there, have you got a reason for it other than just, I want to have better ideas? It's like, because I want my blog to be better or my podcast or my music or my drawing or my illustrations or my fucking comedy. Oh, well, if you've got that, that's gonna be the, the North Star that you're gonna be working toward, but without that, there's no reason why you're in the-

   27. TWTrevor Wallace47:37

       Right, 'cause you feel like you're just kind of aimlessly shooting something or recording something or writing something. You're like, "What is this for, though?"

   28. CWChris Williamson47:43

       Yeah, or maybe you're not even recording it or writing it or shooting something. You're just, like, wanting to hold on to, "I'm just gonna be funnier round the water cooler," or whatever.

   29. TWTrevor Wallace47:52

       Mm-hmm.

   30. CWChris Williamson47:52

       Like, that's not, I don't think that's enough motivation.
7. 51:50 – 1:01:18

   Why Do We Equate Self-Worth to Performance?

   1. TWTrevor Wallace51:50

      Mm, mm.

   2. CWChris Williamson51:50

      So the, the higher that you climb, the further there is to fall.

   3. TWTrevor Wallace51:53

      Ooh.

   4. CWChris Williamson51:53

      And I've thought about this, I've thought about this with the live stuff. So I'm in the middle of tour at the moment, and, um, you know, this is the first America headline-- America and Canada headline tour that I've done. North America, that's what you guys call it, right?

   5. TWTrevor Wallace52:05

      Probably so, yeah.

   6. CWChris Williamson52:06

      To, like, come double them together, so you don't have to go, like-

   7. TWTrevor Wallace52:08

      Yeah.

   8. CWChris Williamson52:09

      Uh, it's the first one that I've done, and now I'm thinking, "Well, if I don't sell out the town hall in New York again next year, that means-

   9. TWTrevor Wallace52:17

      That's insane

   10. CWChris Williamson52:18

       ... as opposed to being on the come-up and getting your first debut show in Manhattan to be 1,500 people, oh, that's, you've fallen off."

   11. TWTrevor Wallace52:27

       When there's so much else that also factors into it.

   12. CWChris Williamson52:30

       Yeah, of course, the timing of when's the show, what... Is it Drake's birthday and Vybz Kartel and-

   13. TWTrevor Wallace52:34

       Yeah

   14. CWChris Williamson52:34

       ... the fucking World Series-

   15. TWTrevor Wallace52:35

       Yeah

   16. CWChris Williamson52:35

       ... [chuckles] happening at the same time on the same night?

   17. TWTrevor Wallace52:37

       Well, I mean, it's, yeah, it's also every year you go on tour, the economy is in a different place, and it's never in a great place, but it's definitely not... Well, I started touring really heavy right out of the pandemic, and there were so many people that were like, "Dude, we've been locked up for all these years. We wanna go to something live. Holy shit, Trevor's finally coming to my town. We gotta go." And those tickets-

   18. CWChris Williamson52:57

       Easy sell

   19. TWTrevor Wallace52:58

       ... flew off the shelf. I mean, like, I, I, like, before I even left for the tour, I think 70% of the shows were all sold out. And now I'm touring again, and, and I'm using those metrics on those shows, and I'm like, "Let's go bigger on those venues." And I'm feeling like, okay, we're taking some really big swings. Some cities, like Toronto, hit it-

   20. CWChris Williamson53:17

       Straight

   21. TWTrevor Wallace53:17

       ... Boom.

   22. CWChris Williamson53:18

       Yeah.

   23. TWTrevor Wallace53:18

       You know?

   24. CWChris Williamson53:18

       What is it about the Canadian audience? They just want to buy shit straight away. We love you.

   25. TWTrevor Wallace53:22

       They wanna see how insane Americans are.

   26. CWChris Williamson53:24

       Yeah.

   27. TWTrevor Wallace53:24

       They wanna be like, "Is this, is this Trump democracy really getting with them?" [chuckles] You know? I don't know. Um, but there's just certain markets, and you could talk to any comedian in the world or really entertainer, there's just some markets you just don't sell well. Chicago, I did, uh, 3,000. Milwaukee couldn't fill a 900-seat room. Now, they're like an hour-ish from each other.

   28. CWChris Williamson53:44

       Wow!

   29. TWTrevor Wallace53:45

       Did that play into it? I don't know.

   30. CWChris Williamson53:46

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.
8. 1:01:18 – 1:17:45

   Simple Ways to Get More Out of Your Creativity

   1. CWChris Williamson1:01:19

      What does a, a pre-creativity game plan look like to you?

   2. TWTrevor Wallace1:01:24

      Um, really, s- rest is the biggest thing. Sleep, good sleep, uh, working out in the morning, and, um, just working out. Like, when those endorphins... It's like, like I'm p- I'm pretty, like, in my head most of the day, but, like, if I, like, work out, and I'm, like, I've had a coffee, and I'm- and I'm by myself, like, then I'm, like, walking around, I'm, like, singing to myself, I'm like, "That's- we're on the verge of something-

   3. CWChris Williamson1:01:45

      Mm-hmm

   4. TWTrevor Wallace1:01:45

      ... but we're feeling good." But for me, it's like I, I can't structurally write. Where it's like, okay, you have a, a, l- you have a 2:00 PM meeting and a 3:00, 3:30 meeting, but at- but at 3:00, you should write. I'm like, "That doesn't work for me," where I'm like, okay, work... You know, like, let time be funny. Like, f- you can't force funny, uh, for me. Some people set hours every day-

   5. CWChris Williamson1:02:11

      Mm

   6. TWTrevor Wallace1:02:11

      ... that are like, "Every day at 11, I write for an hour," and you're allowing yourself to be creative in those moments. But for me, it's like I can't structurally do that. So when I'm having these days of all these meetings, instead of, like... I, I'll, I'll be like, "Okay, guys, let's go to lunch. Let's, let- let's step out of this office. Let's kind of get-"

   7. CWChris Williamson1:02:30

      Reset.

   8. TWTrevor Wallace1:02:31

      Yeah, let's reset, let's submerge, let's be around some people. That's when ideas start flying up. For me, it's like there's ideas everywhere, it- whether it's a fashion trend somebody's wearing, how somebody's t- talking to the barista or something, it's, it's just like... But when I'm in this stressed brain, it's like- [sniffs] it's almost like I have, like, Do Not Disturb on for ideas-

   9. CWChris Williamson1:02:50

      Mm-hmm

   10. TWTrevor Wallace1:02:50

       ... where I'm, like, stressed.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:02:51

       Mm.

   12. TWTrevor Wallace1:02:51

       And it's like, like all these ideas are right in front of me, but when I'm, like, relaxed or, like, kind of out of the work brain a little bit, like, more, like, fun kind of stuff, it's so much easier for me to make these observations to make fun of. Where if I'm stressed, I'm- there's funny all around me, but I'm not noticing it.

   13. CWChris Williamson1:03:08

       So similar to what I do, and not for the funny bit, but for the, "Oh, that's, like, two ideas that I haven't realized that, that come together." And I've been hearing a lot of people talk about obsession at the moment. Zach Pogrebs just started this new running club in New York, and it's all about obsession. And, well, I did this bit about motivation and discipline, but I never, I never wrote about it. I never published it. So I wonder if obsession's a part of the motivation discipline m- uh, but without... You're so right. If you're in admin mode-

   14. TWTrevor Wallace1:03:33

       Yeah

   15. CWChris Williamson1:03:33

       ... that stuff just, it can't penetrate at all. M- Mike Israetel did this really wonderful episode about, uh, rest, rest ethic. Stick with me. Just fucking sick line. He says, "You can't white-knuckle creativity." Like, you can't fucking grip it-

   16. TWTrevor Wallace1:03:47

       And just like-

   17. CWChris Williamson1:03:48

       -like this and be like, "Hey, be creative."

   18. TWTrevor Wallace1:03:50

       Right, right, right.

   19. CWChris Williamson1:03:51

       Most things... You know, if it's answering emails, you can kind of, like, white-knuckle-

   20. TWTrevor Wallace1:03:55

       For sure

   21. CWChris Williamson1:03:55

       ... email answering.

   22. TWTrevor Wallace1:03:56

       Yeah, of course.

   23. CWChris Williamson1:03:56

       And you can w- w- white-knuckle, like, fucking admin and, and responding to texts and, you know, like, sort of low-level executive function stuff, organizing your schedule or whatever, making phone calls. You can't do that with creativity, because it kind of just, like, arrives.

   24. TWTrevor Wallace1:04:12

       Right.

   25. CWChris Williamson1:04:12

       And you've got to be sat back.

   26. TWTrevor Wallace1:04:14

       Yeah, and there's days where I try to force creativity, it doesn't hit. Whether I'm, like, tired, and, and I go, "Well, I got to just work out." Workout usually helps with creativity, and then I work out, and I'm sitting, and I'm trying to write, or I'm trying to come up with something, and I'm just getting- I'm drawing blanks. And sometimes that's just the nature of the game. You can't create creativity, but you can try, and, and you can maybe instead of saying, "Well, instead of figuring out a new TV show idea, how about I just take an old bit that I've been working on forever, see if there's anything new?" It's like, you don't have to come up with your biggest idea then. You can still kind of, like- like, "Okay, I'm not feeling as creative. What's a old joke I've been doing? How can I punch that up a little bit? Or how can I just listen to some stuff back to kind of, like, put you in that right zone?" But you're really right, it's... You can't white-knuckle through it, and that's why I think also setting alone time for yourself, me personally, is when... That's why so many people have so many creative thoughts in the shower. Some-

   27. CWChris Williamson1:05:06

       Shower thoughts and toilet thoughts, dude.

   28. TWTrevor Wallace1:05:08

       Shower, toilet, and, uh, also driving, because you're just- you're not staring at a screen. You're zoned out. So finding those moments where, even if I'm feeling not creative, I just go, "Let me just go to a mall. Let me just get out. Let me go get a... Let me not make a coffee here. Let me-"

   29. CWChris Williamson1:05:24

       You're not gonna be around people at a mall.

   30. TWTrevor Wallace1:05:25

       Yeah, "Let me go get- let me go get a coffee. Let me..." Instead of making one. And it's not for the coffee, it's for the fact of, like, well, what's out there?
9. 1:17:45 – 1:25:50

   Why We Need Something to Look Forward to

   1. CWChris Williamson1:17:45

      bit. But I think y- to go back to what you said at the very beginning, which is, we love people that love something, like somebody that's got a passion, and I think part of the reason is that person probably gets into a flow state at some point. They're writing music-

   2. TWTrevor Wallace1:17:57

      Yeah, yeah

   3. CWChris Williamson1:17:58

      ... and they're just, like, obsessing. And maybe they're not even write- maybe they're just editing the song, and they're trying to find like, "What's a perfect fucking kick drum?" Like, "I need to, like, I need to lose a little bit of this low end here." Or it's someone that's drawing, and time just stops.

   4. TWTrevor Wallace1:18:09

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CWChris Williamson1:18:09

      And they're just in b- it's them and whatever it is that they're trying to create, or someone writing a comedy bit, or they're doing th- this on stage, or, you know, playing fucking pickleball, whatever it is. Like, this is why hobbies are cool and compelling. And the fact that increasingly people don't have pursuits that make them feel like that, I think is like a real... You can lay it at the feet of bullshit jobs and, and cost of living and, and the g- the fucking dopamine and the, the world's news and all the rest of it. That's true. But if you don't have-... at least like one thing, and I guess that could even be probably like playing with your kids. Being like, "Fuck!" Like, I'm just so, like, in the zone with my kids, and I'm having such a good time, and time's completely stopped here. But if you don't have anything, I think it's gonna be really tough to feel like, "I live a meaningful life," if you're kind of just moving from neurotic, obsessive, e- echo, fucking self-reinforcing thought loop thing to the next thing, to the next thing, to the next thing, to the next thing. It's like, well, at what point are you just there, and you're kind of out of your own head and just doing the thing?

   6. TWTrevor Wallace1:19:13

      So what do you tell people that feel like they're working a dead-end job, and they're like: "I don't know if I have any hobbies, and I just, I, I don't have any time to work-life balance?"

   7. CWChris Williamson1:19:22

      It's rough, man. I mean, it-- there's material constraints-

   8. TWTrevor Wallace1:19:25

      Mm-hmm

   9. CWChris Williamson1:19:26

      ... to what people can do, and, and it, this is always the issue of trying to talk about this sort of stuff online, that the, "Well, easy for you to..."

   10. TWTrevor Wallace1:19:34

       Right, right.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:19:34

       That is the sort of immediate response, and in some ways, like, rightly so. 'Cause if you are a person who doesn't have the opportunity to... You've got to work two jobs and raise a kid and fucking do the rest-

   12. TWTrevor Wallace1:19:44

       Yeah

   13. CWChris Williamson1:19:44

       ... of trying to get some sort of a, a qualification, like, that sucks. But your goal, presumably, is not to do that forever.

   14. TWTrevor Wallace1:19:50

       Yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson1:19:50

       Your goal is to be able to do that, to reach escape velocity so that you can have this opportunity.

   16. TWTrevor Wallace1:19:57

       Mm-hmm.

   17. CWChris Williamson1:19:57

       And this is why I think people that criticize or people that have an issue with anyone talking about how to manage money or, or, um, you know, move up the property ladder or whatever it might be, they're like: "Well, this is, like, completely out of touch." And it goes, "Well, it's only out of touch with the stage that you're at now-

   18. TWTrevor Wallace1:20:18

       Hmm

   19. CWChris Williamson1:20:18

       ... because presumably, your goal from the stage you're at now is to get to the stage where this sort of conversation is of use to you." So, I'm kind of skeptical. It makes me sad when I see s- cynicism or, or criticism on the internet of people talking about how to go from fifty to sixty, as opposed to always just going from nought to one or nought to ten. Like, not everybody's at the beginning of their journey, and if you want to learn about, okay, what do you do when you actually get a little bit of momentum under your wings? Like, there's a very different problem being at the start of your journey and being like, "It's all upside. I can't fail," as opposed to going, "Hmm, what's it gonna be like the first time that you eat shit or get a demotion or you don't hit your target in your sales job, or you release a blog post that eats shit compared to the last one?" Whatever it might be. Oh, well, actually, that is a really challenging, uh, um, hurdle to try and overcome. It just feels a little bit less sort of like underdog philanthropy, like we're raising up the fucking, like, the people that are struggling. Because as you get further and further up any sort of a journey, there's fewer and fewer people like it, right? Because by definition, people that get to fifty or seventy or ninety are in the smaller percentage than the people that are at the very beginning.

   20. TWTrevor Wallace1:21:39

       Mm-hmm.

   21. CWChris Williamson1:21:39

       It's like, to me, that would be pretty interesting, too, because it's saying: "Hey, I know that you might be at this stage, but watch out, 'cause this thing's coming," right? You haven't had a video take off, or you haven't had a blog post take off, or you, you haven't managed to change careers to the one that you want to. But when you do, you're gonna encounter this thing, and this thing is gonna be hard in a really different way. So you're gonna feel like, "Oh, what if I dropped off?

   22. TWTrevor Wallace1:21:59

       Mm.

   23. CWChris Williamson1:21:59

       "What if my self-worth has changed now? What if I can't be as creative as I used to be in the past?" Those things are... They're useful to see, but the, the only solution that I think that makes any sense is, like, even, even if you only had twenty minutes or thirty minutes today, what is something that if you knew it was on your calendar for the day, it would make getting out of bed way easier?

   24. TWTrevor Wallace1:22:23

       It would excite you, yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson1:22:24

       You're like, "Fuck! Like, I can't wait." So for instance, today, I had a good night's sleep last night, even though I've been flying a lot. Again, as you know, like, tour is not exactly great on the, like, sleep pattern stuff.

   26. TWTrevor Wallace1:22:34

       Yeah.

   27. CWChris Williamson1:22:34

       Um, and I woke up this morning, and I was like, "Fucking Trevor and Huberman back to back and all my friends are here."

   28. TWTrevor Wallace1:22:41

       Two alpha males.

   29. CWChris Williamson1:22:42

       Two, yeah, two sigmas. Uh-

   30. TWTrevor Wallace1:22:43

       [chuckles]
10. 1:25:50 – 1:31:47

    Why These Might Be the Golden Years

    1. TWTrevor Wallace1:25:50

       ... to make that.

    2. CWChris Williamson1:25:50

       Look, I- I- it's what I said before. Look at how much reverence and enjoyment you have for what should be the shittest period of your career, where you're like, "Nobody knew who I was. I had a couple of videos that had blown up. I didn't have the following. I wasn't flying around the country playing all of these shows."

    3. TWTrevor Wallace1:26:08

       Mm.

    4. CWChris Williamson1:26:09

       "I wasn't- certainly wasn't selling out the fucking Beacon Theatre in New York." Uh, this is... And it's, it, it's kind of hard to say, it's a bit of an unteachable lesson, that the golden years are often the first ones.

    5. TWTrevor Wallace1:26:20

       Mm-hmm.

    6. CWChris Williamson1:26:20

       But you're gonna look back on the start of this relationship, you know, "Oh, do you remember before we had kids, when we lived in that pokey apartment-

    7. TWTrevor Wallace1:26:27

       Right

    8. CWChris Williamson1:26:28

       ... in, you know, the Upper East Side, and it, the, we could hear the pigeons outside, but, like, it was so beautiful-

    9. TWTrevor Wallace1:26:33

       Yeah

    10. CWChris Williamson1:26:33

        ... and we had Saturday mornings to ourselves, and we'd go to the dog park and blah, blah, blah." Or, "Do you remember when we first founded the business, and we didn't have any idea what we were doing, and we had that pitch meeting, and we crushed it, but we slept under the desk the night before, and we ordered Domino?" Like, those are the golden years.

    11. TWTrevor Wallace1:26:46

        Yeah, there's a good chance a lot of people listening to this right now are in their golden years but so stressed about the future, they don't realize it.

    12. CWChris Williamson1:26:51

        Yes. Yes, so true. Morgan Housel has this fucking unreal article. He says, um, "Golden years only exist in the past."

    13. TWTrevor Wallace1:26:59

        Mm.

    14. CWChris Williamson1:26:59

        Like, nobody ever feels-

    15. TWTrevor Wallace1:27:01

        Nobody feels-

    16. CWChris Williamson1:27:01

        ... they're growing, they're living through a golden era.

    17. TWTrevor Wallace1:27:03

        Yeah. There's a good chance I'm in my golden years right now, but I'm just like, "Well, why can't I s- uh, well, well, Seattle sold out, but why isn't Portland...?" You know, like, there's so many, there's so many things that can take you away from it, and it's almost good that it takes you away from it. I'm not a big reflect guy. Like, sure, I'll do the Beacon on Saturday, and I'll be like, "Yeah, cool, but d- this YouTube short bombed."

    18. CWChris Williamson1:27:23

        The next thing.

    19. TWTrevor Wallace1:27:23

        Yeah.

    20. CWChris Williamson1:27:23

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    21. TWTrevor Wallace1:27:24

        Or it's like, "Okay, cool, but what's the next show? Salt Lake City, how's that selling?" I don't, I don't... My mom asked me if I ever am enjoying anything that I'm doing, 'cause I've, I've done a lot of really cool shit, and she goes, "Do you enjoy this?" And I go, "I enjoy it months later." I go, like, I shot my special in Austin, I, and I did three shows at the Paramount, and, and I was like-

    22. CWChris Williamson1:27:42

        Unreal

    23. TWTrevor Wallace1:27:43

        ... unreal, so happy with it. And then, like, there's a photo in my kitchen of the last night in the Paramount, and like, I walk past it every day, and then, like, a couple months later, I looked at it, I was like: Holy shit, man, I can't believe-

    24. CWChris Williamson1:27:55

        I did that

    25. TWTrevor Wallace1:27:56

        ... I did that. But it, it, I, I, for me, I can't in the moment feel it. I, I'm, I walk into, I'll walk into the Beacon on Saturday. I'll look out and say, "Yeah, this is fucking beautiful. Now, time to worry about my set," you know? It won't be until months later that I'm just sitting there like, "Dude, the Beacon?"

    26. CWChris Williamson1:28:14

        I fucking did that.

    27. TWTrevor Wallace1:28:15

        Yeah, it- i- but, i- and I don't know what that is because I'm just always worried about the future. So being in these golden years thing, it's like, dude, I mean, listen, I'll probably be 62 performing out of a loony bin in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Be like, y- working for chicken tenders and a shot of Jack Daniels, be like, "I did the Beacon back in the day."

    28. CWChris Williamson1:28:33

        Yeah.

    29. TWTrevor Wallace1:28:33

        You... I'll be thinking about how good it currently is right now, but I don't realize it right now. I am doing it right now, and I'm, I feel like I'm not. I feel like I'm still like, "Does anybody care? Should I go to an open mic? Should I d- delete my account?"

    30. CWChris Williamson1:28:49

        Mm-hmm.
11. 1:31:47 – 1:39:29

    Are We Spoiled for Choice?

    1. TWTrevor Wallace1:31:47

       know.

    2. CWChris Williamson1:31:47

       Options are difficult, man. You know, there's, uh, this cool idea called the paradox of choice by Barry Schwartz. Did this TED Talk. I remember when I first... I remember where I was when I was listening to this, like, over 10 years ago, driving through Newcastle. It basically says, um-

    3. TWTrevor Wallace1:32:00

       The beer?

    4. CWChris Williamson1:32:02

       Barry Schwartz, paradox of choice.

    5. TWTrevor Wallace1:32:03

       Newcastle?

    6. CWChris Williamson1:32:04

       Yeah, that's where I'm from.

    7. TWTrevor Wallace1:32:05

       The beer?

    8. CWChris Williamson1:32:06

       Yeah.

    9. TWTrevor Wallace1:32:06

       Yeah.

    10. CWChris Williamson1:32:06

        Newcastle Brown Ale.

    11. TWTrevor Wallace1:32:08

        Sorry.

    12. CWChris Williamson1:32:08

        Have you drank it?

    13. TWTrevor Wallace1:32:09

        Yeah.

    14. CWChris Williamson1:32:10

        Yeah.

    15. TWTrevor Wallace1:32:10

        It's good. Sorry, I was getting, uh, uh, sorry.

    16. CWChris Williamson1:32:12

        Not at all. Have you ever played?

    17. TWTrevor Wallace1:32:14

        Newcastle?

    18. CWChris Williamson1:32:14

        Newcastle. Have you done anywhere, anything in the UK?

    19. TWTrevor Wallace1:32:16

        No, I haven't. I want to.

    20. CWChris Williamson1:32:17

        Brownle.

    21. TWTrevor Wallace1:32:18

        I need to.

    22. CWChris Williamson1:32:19

        They'd like you.

    23. TWTrevor Wallace1:32:20

        I would... No, I, I know I would do... I would, I really want to.

    24. CWChris Williamson1:32:22

        You must be lining that up. You must be lining up in Europe- UK.

    25. TWTrevor Wallace1:32:24

        Yeah. We're, we're working on, we're, we're working on London. I, I've done Australia, which is where I thought everybody was here from this morning, but no.

    26. CWChris Williamson1:32:30

        Yeah.

    27. TWTrevor Wallace1:32:30

        Um, sorry, I didn't mean to, um-

    28. CWChris Williamson1:32:30

        That was a bad intro to everyone.

    29. TWTrevor Wallace1:32:32

        It's great!

    30. CWChris Williamson1:32:32

        It's like, "You're Australian, and you're Australian, and you're New Zealand."
12. 1:39:29 – 1:52:34

    Why Our Goals Change as We Grow

    1. CWChris Williamson1:39:30

       that Morgan Housel article I was talking about, where he says, uh, "Nobody ever believes that they're living through golden years," he uses this great example of him and his wife, uh, living in New York. And he's... They've got kids now, and he's got The Psychology of Money, which has sold a gazillion copies. Been on the New York Times bestseller chart for, like, four years straight or something. He was talking to his wife, and he was saying, "Do you remember when we used to live in New York and we didn't have any kids, and we'd lie in on a Saturday morning, and we'd get to go and have coffee, and we could have this wonderful time? Do you remember how amazing it was? Do you remember how free we were?" And his wife turns to him and goes, "What are you talking about? You were miserable. Like, you had no idea whether you were going to hold your job down. You were scared about the future. We thought we were gonna get kicked out of the house." And what he realizes is, in retrospect, he could see that his fears were a waste of time-

    2. TWTrevor Wallace1:40:20

       Mm, I like that

    3. CWChris Williamson1:40:21

       ... and that the successes that he was hoping would come to pass would come to pass. But at the time, all of his fears were really real. Like, I'm gonna miss the first joke, or the people are gonna laugh at me, or stuff's not gonna go well, and none of his success- and none of your successes are promised.

    4. TWTrevor Wallace1:40:37

       Mm.

    5. CWChris Williamson1:40:37

       So you end up with this weird world where, in retrospect, you know that you had nothing to worry about, so you can almost enjoy stuff more. And I guess this is kind of a curse of somebody that isn't obsessive with high standards-

    6. TWTrevor Wallace1:40:50

       Yeah

    7. CWChris Williamson1:40:50

       ... that's trying to achieve. Because the reason that you are getting the outcomes you want is because of your obsession, your attention to detail, your vigilance of, "Oh, that might- that could be a little bit better, if only I refined it this tiny little bit more." Okay, well, do you wanna do that and also at the same time be like, "I'm just present, man. I'm free flowing-"

    8. TWTrevor Wallace1:41:09

       Yeah.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:41:09

       "... I'm, like, here"? Those two things don't comport very well.

    10. TWTrevor Wallace1:41:12

        No, and they feel like they would hate each other. A guy who's compulsive and, and obsessive over an edit sees a guy at a coffee shop who's like, "It'll all work out, man. If people buy-"

    11. CWChris Williamson1:41:20

        Fuck you!

    12. TWTrevor Wallace1:41:21

        Yeah. The, those two guys would never hang out. They would meet each other at a party and be like, "That guy's an idiot. That guy's an idiot." So it, it almost feels weird to let myself know, like, "Hey, I've been doing this independently for seven years," yet every day I go, "How am I gonna make this happen?" I go, "Well, I have a track record of seven years." But, but I'm, I'm like, "Yeah, but, but how am I gonna..." In a week, in a month, in a year... But like, so to his point, if I put myself five years behind, when I'm only two years in, I go, "Ah, dude, how am I gonna make this work another five years?" You just, you kind of just do-

    13. CWChris Williamson1:41:57

        Mm

    14. TWTrevor Wallace1:41:57

        ... but you're, you're, you're s- you're subconsciously trusting yourself while stressing yourself.

    15. CWChris Williamson1:42:03

        [laughing]

    16. TWTrevor Wallace1:42:03

        'Cause you're stressing yourself to the next level. You're like, "I gotta get, I gotta get, I gotta get-"

    17. CWChris Williamson1:42:07

        So true.

    18. TWTrevor Wallace1:42:07

        But, but it's not like... There's no, like, bumpers, like in bowling, where it's like course-correcting. You're like, "I'm just... I gotta, I gotta..." And you're just, you're, like, stressing yourself forward in this weird way, where you're like, "I trust myself, because I'm not looking up job applications. I'm not at- I'm not putting the fries in the bag. I'm not doing that. I'm trusting myself. I know in myself. I know what I'm doing is successful and funny," yet there's still doubt. What is... Why? I've, I've done everything [chuckles] online that I've ever, uh, dreamed of, times a thousand. It... You know, I remember I have a photo of a goal list from 2017 that I like to look at every once in a while. It was when I still had my day job, but I, I had just quit, I think. I just quit my day job in that year, and one of my goals on there was, like, get a million views on a video.

    19. CWChris Williamson1:42:58

        Mm-hmm.

    20. TWTrevor Wallace1:42:58

        And now, I was talking to my girlfriend last night about something that stressed me out. Like, if a video on Instagram doesn't do a million views, I'm, like, sad. I'm, like, depressed about it. But I'm like, "That once was my goal for the entire year."... one video hit a million views, and I wanted, like, a million views on, like, Facebook. I don't even-- This was pre-TikTok. This was, like, pre-Instagram. So it's interesting to see w-- I lost my train of thought.

    21. CWChris Williamson1:43:25

        Interesting-

    22. TWTrevor Wallace1:43:25

        Take a, take a sip.

    23. CWChris Williamson1:43:26

        In- interesting to see that I'm looking here. I've got, like, a yearly goals library.

    24. TWTrevor Wallace1:43:30

        Yeah.

    25. CWChris Williamson1:43:30

        That's what you've prompted me to go and look at here. Uh, I think me and Dean put some together, certainly in twenty eighteen, which was hit twenty thousand subscribers.

    26. TWTrevor Wallace1:43:42

        Yeah.

    27. CWChris Williamson1:43:43

        And, uh, the problem that you have and the problem that everybody has, so habituation, right, which is, um, you get a new car, and then you get used to it.

    28. TWTrevor Wallace1:43:53

        Mm.

    29. CWChris Williamson1:43:53

        And the first day that you get your Cybertruck, it's amazing, and after that, you, you kind of, you, the hedonic adaptation sets in. But the same thing happens for goals, and the same thing happens for what you want to achieve.

    30. TWTrevor Wallace1:44:02

        Yeah.
13. 1:52:34 – 2:01:27

    How to Reduce Noise By Creating Space

    1. CWChris Williamson1:52:34

       Do you know the idea of a signal versus noise? You familiar with this?

    2. TWTrevor Wallace1:52:37

       No, I like this, though.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:52:38

       Okay, so, uh, imagine that you're a trader, and you were trading a particular stock, and you were to track- check the price of this stock every single day. There would be loads of intraday movement, right? It would be dic, dic, dic, dic, dic, up and down, or you check it every thirty minutes. And then in another version, you check it every day, and then in another version, you check it every month, and then another, you check it every year. Across a year, there is loads of noise, but what you're actually getting is signal, right? Something which is, uh, reliable to, um, the trajectory of this thing over time. If you check it every half an hour, it's almost all noise. It doesn't contribute to... You even said it yourself, that sometimes video might launch slow and go g- g- pick up after five days or whatever, and you're like, "Huh, that came into line quite nicely," because you've prioritized noise over signal.

    4. TWTrevor Wallace1:53:27

       Mm.

    5. CWChris Williamson1:53:28

       And the only way that you can really sort of select out noise and select for signal is to reduce how frequently you check and to, like, do it at bigger chunks of time. Certainly, I know, for me, when we started, uh, having somebody else post on my behalf, unless I'm like, "It's ten AM Central Time, I should-- like, a video has gone up thirty minutes ago," uh, I don't know that it's gone. And another thing that's been really good is, and this is, uh, from my housemate, George, he always has a couple of things in the tank, and he publishes something that he wrote a few weeks ago. So, you know, let's say that you start off writing, but before you begin, you have four, um, videos, articles, illustrations, or whatever. And then number one goes out on week number, like, four, and then number two goes out on week number five.

    6. TWTrevor Wallace1:54:21

       Yep, five. Yeah.

    7. CWChris Williamson1:54:21

       Like, you're always moving like this. That distance, I think, between creation and publish, gives you a little bit more like, "Ah!"

    8. TWTrevor Wallace1:54:28

       Well, it's great because you're also not creating based on last video's performance.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:54:31

       Yeah.

    10. TWTrevor Wallace1:54:32

        If a video bombed, now you're stressed, and you're like, "I need a hit," and now you're writing under the pretense of, "I need a hit." And I swear the internet knows when a video is forced. If a video is forced, the internet is like, "No, no, no, hey, this is-

    11. CWChris Williamson1:54:41

        Desperate energy.

    12. TWTrevor Wallace1:54:41

        Yeah, this is a fun zone, buddy. The videos that always do the best to me are, like, the ones that I, like, had the most fun creating. So when you distance yourself one to four, like you just said-

    13. CWChris Williamson1:54:51

        Mm-hmm

    14. TWTrevor Wallace1:54:52

        ... now that gives you some space to be like, "Hey, I made this when I wasn't even thinking about these other videos."

    15. CWChris Williamson1:54:56

        So true.

    16. TWTrevor Wallace1:54:57

        I gotta... Yeah, I'm about, like, like, two-- I'm, like, a week out every week.

    17. CWChris Williamson1:55:03

        Mm-hmm.

    18. TWTrevor Wallace1:55:03

        But maybe that's not enough time to-

    19. CWChris Williamson1:55:05

        Certainly, with this, if you did that, if you did the little bit more inventory buffer, plus somebody else posted on your behalf, uh, I think, like, okay, we're, we're starting to create a little bit of distance, right? To get away from the noise and to get into the signal.

    20. TWTrevor Wallace1:55:21

        Yeah, I, I like that a lot. I, I've never seen it so clear.... getting a signal. I've never seen it so clear, but I [chuckles] also don't know any CEO who is standing over their shoulder looking at their Squarespace or their Shopify every 30 minutes, like, "What's it selling? What's it selling? What's it selling?" It's like they come in in the morning, "How'd we do? Good, bad."

    21. CWChris Williamson1:55:38

        Mm-hmm.

    22. TWTrevor Wallace1:55:38

        "Uh, okay," they're not refreshing everything.

    23. CWChris Williamson1:55:40

        Once again, I, I, I totally get it, and I, I think you're right. But I wouldn't be too hard on yourself, because two things: first off, this is the training mode that got you to where you are.

    24. TWTrevor Wallace1:55:52

        Yeah.

    25. CWChris Williamson1:55:52

        It's the same founder mentality, like startup demon mode, degen fucking thing, that everybody who rips a project off a launchpad has. It's like, "I did everything. I, like, came up with the ideas, and I worked out, like, what, what's my handle going to be on social media? And, like, h- do I use fucking After Effects, or do I need to use Premiere Pro? Or, like, is CapCut any good? I don't know. And how do I... Ah, fuck, I exported it in the wrong..."

    26. TWTrevor Wallace1:56:18

        Yeah, yeah.

    27. CWChris Williamson1:56:18

        Like, "It's 25 frames per second or 24-"

    28. TWTrevor Wallace1:56:20

        Yeah, yeah. [chuckles]

    29. CWChris Williamson1:56:20

        ... 30 looks weird." Like, you know, all of these things. So now you, at, you know, getting from 97 to 98, are the inheritor of the guy that got from nought to 1, and then got from, like, 10 to 20 and 20 to 30. And you're like, okay, all of that stuff was good for then, but the tools that got you here don't always get you there. They don't always get you to the next thing.

    30. TWTrevor Wallace1:56:45

        Mm.
14. 2:01:27 – 2:02:29

    What’s Next for Trevor?

    1. CWChris Williamson2:01:27

       Trevor Wallace, ladies and gentlemen. Dude-

    2. TWTrevor Wallace2:01:29

       Thank you so much for having... I learned so much. I've been a fan for so long. I didn't even know that you followed me, and then I saw that you... And I was like, "Dude, this has been happening-

    3. CWChris Williamson2:01:36

       I've been DM'ing you for years. [laughing]

    4. TWTrevor Wallace2:01:37

       Oh, come on, it was once. You DM'd me once.

    5. CWChris Williamson2:01:39

       All right, all right, all right. Yeah.

    6. TWTrevor Wallace2:01:40

       But, um, honored to be on here. Uh, yeah, follow @huberman.

    7. CWChris Williamson2:01:44

       [laughing]

    8. TWTrevor Wallace2:01:45

       Well, uh, uh-

    9. CWChris Williamson2:01:46

       Live shows, where should people go?

    10. TWTrevor Wallace2:01:47

        trevorwallace.com. I'm touring the whole United States. I think I have, like, 30 shows left on this tour. Then we're filming a special in March in Phoenix, Arizona. Tickets gonna be announced very soon. Um, when does this come out?

    11. CWChris Williamson2:01:58

        A couple of weeks.

    12. TWTrevor Wallace2:01:59

        All right. Well, maybe it's on sale. Trevorwallace.com. Thank you for having me, Chris, and, uh, make sure to drink LMNT and Neutonic. Is that how you say it?

    13. CWChris Williamson2:02:10

        Yep. Thank you. Free ad reads.

    14. TWTrevor Wallace2:02:11

        Nootropic?

    15. CWChris Williamson2:02:13

        Yeah, sure.

    16. TWTrevor Wallace2:02:13

        Is there kratom in this? [chuckles]

    17. CWChris Williamson2:02:14

        Yes. [laughing]

    18. TWTrevor Wallace2:02:16

        Thanks for having me, Chris. [upbeat music]

    19. CWChris Williamson2:02:18

        Thank you very much for tuning in. Oh, Trevor Wallace in all his glory. How about Jimmy Carr in all of his British glory? Right here.

Episode duration: 2:02:29