Crypto Scams, Dopamine Websites, Tasteful Slop & Vape Shop Energy - Rabbit Hole #6

1. 0:00 – 2:11

   Why Britain Is Android and America Is iOS

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      What were you, what were you explaining about how, uh, Europe is like Android and America's like iOS?

   2. GMGeorge Mack0:05

      Yeah, yeah.

   3. SPShaan Puri0:06

      Oh, that's great.

   4. GMGeorge Mack0:07

      It has a, has a lot-

   5. SPSpeaker0:07

      [laughs] Start with that. Fucking money.

   6. GMGeorge Mack0:10

      It has a lot of better features in many ways, but iOS is just-

   7. SPSpeaker0:14

      Yeah. [laughs]

   8. SPShaan Puri0:16

      Just works.

   9. GMGeorge Mack0:16

      Just works. Um, even the small one, uh-

   10. SPSpeaker0:19

       Pull this sucker in

   11. GMGeorge Mack0:20

       ... was in, um-

   12. SPSpeaker0:20

       Not you going forward, you pull it toward you.

   13. GMGeorge Mack0:22

       Oh, we was in, uh-

   14. SPSpeaker0:23

       Keep doing the same thing. [laughs]

   15. GMGeorge Mack0:25

       What do you mean? Move it towards me?

   16. SPSpeaker0:25

       Yes.

   17. SPShaan Puri0:26

       Pull it to you.

   18. GMGeorge Mack0:26

       Okay. Okay. Okay.

   19. SPSpeaker0:27

       [laughs]

   20. GMGeorge Mack0:29

       Um, sorry, it's early.

   21. SPSpeaker0:30

       You're cute.

   22. GMGeorge Mack0:31

       Um, we was in, uh, Sicily, which was where the second series of White Lotus was filmed.

   23. SPSpeaker0:35

       Mm.

   24. GMGeorge Mack0:35

       And you're at this kind of beautiful, extravagant Italian restaurants, and I flew into New York, and we went to one of these kind of flip-up franchise restaurants that are all over America right now, like private equity clearly come in-

   25. SPSpeaker0:49

       Like Blank Street Coffee. That sort of thing

   26. GMGeorge Mack0:50

       ... and, yeah, and they go, "You offer, like, three things-"

   27. SPSpeaker0:52

       [laughs]

   28. GMGeorge Mack0:52

       ... and it's purely we're gonna get customers in and out, same ingredients, maximize the margins.

   29. SPSpeaker0:56

       Mm.

   30. GMGeorge Mack0:57

       But it's a strange thing about America that, UK doesn't have this and Europe doesn't have this, where you have people on staff that can't serve you, where they're like, they do the drinks. So they pour your drink, and I go, "Can I order food as well?" And they'll be like, "Oh, let me get the, the person who takes the orders." I'm like, "This is really strange." But what was fascinating, the guy that did the waters was, in the PE franchised American system, was better than any waiter I experienced in the whole of Italy. So it's just a difference of-
2. 2:11 – 12:32

   Is Jean Phil An AI Crypto Scam?

   1. SPSpeaker2:11

      all right, Jack, I've, I've been meaning to ask you about this. What the fuck is happening with this Jean Phil guy?

   2. GMGeorge Mack2:17

      Uh, you know what? I'm actually not as, as clued up on this as I should be, but the, the initial, like, analysis of that was this is, like, a completely unique, one-of-a-kind person creating content in... Was it on Instagram originally, do you see it?

   3. SPSpeaker2:33

      Yeah, I think so. It's on E- we got a ton of it on X, but-

   4. GMGeorge Mack2:36

      I think we've, like, we've crossed the Charybdis of now

   5. SPSpeaker2:38

      ... you guys have seen this, right?

   6. SPShaan Puri2:39

      I know none of this.

   7. GMGeorge Mack2:40

      I saw this yesterday.

   8. SPSpeaker2:41

      Oh, you've been in Android for too long.

   9. SPShaan Puri2:43

      This is the whole thing.

   10. SPSpeaker2:44

       [laughs]

   11. GMGeorge Mack2:56

       That's George at the private equity-

   12. SPShaan Puri2:57

       Yeah. I, I-

   13. GMGeorge Mack2:58

       ... trust fund. [laughs]

   14. SPSpeaker2:58

       That's you, that's you trying to get good service off a guy that's giving you water. [laughs]

   15. GMGeorge Mack3:01

       [laughs] Um, and from this he's, like, co- doing a coin? B-

   16. SPSpeaker3:06

       Yeah, I ha- I, I'm actually... Maybe I'm, maybe I'm, uh, ill-informed in here, but I... He doesn't exist, does he?

   17. SPShaan Puri3:11

       It's A- he's AI, right?

   18. SPSpeaker3:13

       Yeah, it is AI.

   19. GMGeorge Mack3:13

       Oh.

   20. SPSpeaker3:13

       But the f- but the initial launch of that, people assumed he was real for a long enough period of time for it to become this big thing, and yeah, there's infinite number of cryptocurrencies-

   21. GMGeorge Mack3:22

       [laughs]

   22. SPSpeaker3:23

       ... attached to his likeness that people are gambling upon.

   23. GMGeorge Mack3:26

       And then there's d- like derivative content now where people are making, like, counterfeit AI of that AI, and it's... I guess, you know, you can say, "Do you own your own likeness?" But do you own your AI's own likeness-

   24. SPSpeaker3:40

       Oh

   25. GMGeorge Mack3:40

       ... is much more of a difficult question.

   26. SPShaan Puri3:41

       Like fake Gucci bag of this guy.

   27. GMGeorge Mack3:43

       Yeah. Well, it's the fake Gucci bag of the fake Gucci bag.

   28. SPShaan Puri3:45

       Right. [laughs]

   29. GMGeorge Mack3:45

       It's like you've made a mo-

   30. SPSpeaker3:46

       Yeah
3. 12:32 – 18:50

   Can You Really Trust Prediction Markets?

   1. CWChris Williamson12:32

      What do you think happens with prediction mark- do you think they're just gonna continue to happen or is there gonna be some legislation that comes in and fucks it?

   2. SPShaan Puri12:38

      I think there's gonna have to be legislation. I, I can't imagine that this just runs amok [laughs] . I mean, the funny thing is, like, they used to be, they used to present themselves as, um, we are, like, the bearers of truth. Like, let the markets say what's true, forget the mainstream media, blah, blah, blah. But it's, now the volume is literally I think, like, 98% sports betting. So it's like-

   3. CWChris Williamson12:57

      Even on Polymarket

   4. SPShaan Puri12:58

      ... on, on both Kalshi and Polymarket.

   5. CWChris Williamson12:59

      Which is why Novi with Sydney Sweeney makes so much sense

   6. SPShaan Puri13:01

      If you just look, especially now, like, football season, it's, like, insane. Um, [laughs] I gave, uh, there's one guy who was a very prolific, uh, sports bettor back in the day, and, um, kept in touch with this guy. You know, there's a group of these people that they kinda make their money in these arbitrage-y types of ways. Very smart people, but they're, they're always playing this cat and mouse game, you know? So with the, when he was sports betting, it's like you get an edge and then the casino realizes what's going on, they shut you down. So you start giving money to Floyd Mayweather and celebrities as your beards to go bet. And that works for a while, then that gets shut down, and then you move to the next thing. Crypto. Then you move to the next thing. This.

   7. CWChris Williamson13:35

      Yeah.

   8. SPShaan Puri13:36

      And so now they're all, like, all in on Polymarket. So I gave this guy a million dollars, and he ga- he said, he basically started producing 1% returns every day. And what he was doing, the short version of it is, um, the way a lot of these sites work, people go and they put 10 bucks, and they want this, like, amazing, like, payout if these 15 different things happen. And the odds of those 15, you know, um, uh, whatever, like the Cowboys will score the first touchdown, and the national anthem goes this long, and this happens-

   9. CWChris Williamson14:02

      It's like an accumulator

   10. SPShaan Puri14:03

       ... it's like an acca.

   11. CWChris Williamson14:03

       It's an acca in the UK.

   12. SPShaan Puri14:04

       It's a parlay, yeah.

   13. CWChris Williamson14:05

       Yeah.

   14. SPShaan Puri14:05

       So like, uh-

   15. CWChris Williamson14:06

       Acca

   16. SPShaan Puri14:06

       ... as you go, the more you go, the better the payout. So 10 could be two grand, and the guy's happy, and he's, he's gonna enjoy watching the game more.

   17. CWChris Williamson14:12

       Yeah.

   18. SPShaan Puri14:13

       But the real odds of that happening are, like, two million to one, and you're paying 2,000.

   19. CWChris Williamson14:16

       Mm.

   20. SPShaan Puri14:16

       And so you can just be the market. So, like, all these quant firms like Jane Street and whatever, like, uh, not Jane Street, like, more like Jump Street, like smaller quant firms, instead of bet- instead of playing Wall Street market maker, they're going on these prediction markets, and they, they take action from people who wanna do this. So the platform is not the house. You can kinda go be the house and bet and, like, take the action for these people. If you think the odds are a million to one, and this guy's willing to take the bet for 1,000 to one, you just picked up, like, all the spread of that actual event happening. It's pretty amazing.

   21. CWChris Williamson14:48

       Mm.

   22. GMGeorge Mack14:49

       You know what I, I think is, like, an underappreciated thing about the, like, takeoff of prediction markets is, like, how legible they made betting. Like, split it into two percentages. Like, when we were growing up, you look at, like-

   23. SPShaan Puri15:02

       Five to one

   24. GMGeorge Mack15:03

       ... oh, what, it's 13 to minus-

   25. CWChris Williamson15:04

       Minus, minus 320, yeah [laughs]

   26. GMGeorge Mack15:04

       ... this horse is gonna win this, or if this game-

   27. SPShaan Puri15:07

       Yeah, yeah

   28. GMGeorge Mack15:07

       ... is gonna have a goal in this minute, it's gonna be this versus... And this is just like-

   29. SPShaan Puri15:10

       Show me a fucking graph

   30. GMGeorge Mack15:11

       ... and it's a market that you have a s- position in in real time, right?
4. 18:50 – 28:52

   What Power Laws Make All Other Laws Irrelevant?

   1. CWChris Williamson18:50

      Yes. What have you got, G? You've been... We haven't been together for two months, basically.

   2. GMGeorge Mack18:54

      Give or take, yeah.

   3. CWChris Williamson18:55

      I know. So we have this idea of, uh, blue brain, which is similar to being blue balled.

   4. GMGeorge Mack18:59

      Ah.

   5. CWChris Williamson19:00

      But it's when you and your friend haven't been together for long enough that you've accumulated loads of shit that you wanna talk about.

   6. GMGeorge Mack19:04

      [laughs]

   7. CWChris Williamson19:05

      So what have you been blue braining me with?

   8. GMGeorge Mack19:07

      A little question, actually.

   9. CWChris Williamson19:08

      Question.

   10. GMGeorge Mack19:08

       And I'll... I can kind of talk through one of my answers for it, but one of the things I was thinking about is what is a power law in a thing that if you neglect it, everything else is irrelevant?

   11. CWChris Williamson19:20

       What is a power law? Is it-

   12. GMGeorge Mack19:21

       Yeah. So, like, for example, I'll give you my realization, was, um, went through the whole classic arc eight years ago when the whole big, big sleep came on the scene around the average person is significantly underslept, and all the-

   13. CWChris Williamson19:36

       The Matthew Walker revolution.

   14. GMGeorge Mack19:37

       Yeah. The, the... And the, I think the peak of it was when, um, Matthew Walker did, like, the eight-part series on sleep with Huberman, and I joked that my friend, uh, Quinny, who's, like, never overthinks anything, after four beers, um, just saying, "Just shut your eyes, lad," will sleep better [laughs] than anybody who listens to that podcast.

   15. CWChris Williamson19:55

       [laughs] Yeah.

   16. GMGeorge Mack19:56

       And the power law, I... And I think Matthew and, uh, Huberman probably actually agree, the, the power law I took from sleep was all the other stuff like, um, temperature control, um, wind down routines, is ultimately bef- the first thing is the more you try to sleep, the worse you will sleep, and therefore anything else that stacks on top of that without taking that serious-

   17. CWChris Williamson20:19

       Mm

   18. GMGeorge Mack20:19

       ... is completely wiped out. So the u- the... If you don't take that serious, or anything that you do after that cancels it out. Um, and I think a lot about that power law. That it's like, oh, sometimes in life you've got to think about... It's a little bit the Midwest meme, but the power law wipes everything else out.

   19. CWChris Williamson20:35

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. If you get this one thing right, or if you get this one thing wrong-

   20. GMGeorge Mack20:39

       Yes

   21. CWChris Williamson20:39

       ... everything else becomes irrelevant.

   22. GMGeorge Mack20:41

       And lots of people, there's this whole trend right now that people have gone down the whole, uh, trying to improve their sleep and ironically ended up with insomnia, which is like trying to end up, like, improve your margin by 10% and you've gone bankrupt.

   23. CWChris Williamson20:51

       [laughs]

   24. GMGeorge Mack20:52

       It's like you've gone backwards. Like, a lot of people that have got into this sleep science stuff have actually gone backwards because what they'll do is they'll have... And this is what happened to me, is I'll think that I had one night where I slept eight hours and I felt great, and I go, "Oh, I'm a person that sleeps eight hours." And it's like, no, the previous night I slept five, and then I slept eight that night to overcompensate, so I felt great. Now I started having this meme in my head that I need to sleep eight hours per night. So I'd then go, "Right, if I need to be up at 6:00, I'll go to bed at 10:00." And I'll get into bed awake, which is the single worst thing you can do for your sleep, to just lie there and go, "Why am I not going to sleep yet? Why am I not going to sleep yet?" And then you end up waking up, I know you've had this at times, when you wake up at 3:00 AM, and then you'll be ruminating about this whole sleep thing, and it's just like this absolute doom loop because you've neglected the power law.

   25. CWChris Williamson21:40

       Tell me if this sounds familiar. You train regularly, you eat reasonably well, you feel fine, but you're just kind of going off vibes. Most people have absolutely no idea what's going on inside their body, and that is why I partnered with Function. Function gives you access to more than 160 advanced lab tests spanning hormones, heart health, kidney function, and even detects early signals linked to more than 50 types of cancer. To put that in perspective, your typical annual physical might test 20 markers. Function runs over 160. It's huge. Best of all, you test twice a year and everything lives inside of a simple dashboard. So you track trends over time, make sure you're moving in the right direction. And this level of testing would usually cost thousands, but with Function it is $365 per year, just $1 a day to actually know what's happening inside of your body. And right now you can get $25 off, bringing it down to 340 bucks. Get the exact same blood panels that I use and save $25 by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com/modernwisdom. That's functionhealth.com/modernwisdom. Me and you have been through the wringer when it comes to sleep. An equivalent that I... The first one that comes to mind for me is around training, which is that you can try to optimize absolutely everything, but ultimately if you're not training hard, everything else doesn't matter. You can have the perfect sets, reps, form, the right amount of protein consumption, but ultimately you need to stress the system, and the best way to work out if you're stressing the system is whether or not it is stressful, i.e. is it hard.

   26. GMGeorge Mack23:05

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CWChris Williamson23:05

       Uh, so I trained with Sam Sulek. Do you know who that guy is?

   28. GMGeorge Mack23:07

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson23:08

       Like, fucking-

   30. GMGeorge Mack23:08

       Giant
5. 28:52 – 36:46

   Why Competition Only Exists When You Believe You Can Win

   1. GMGeorge Mack28:52

      poo. Uh, Mark, have you got that diagram? So I don't know whether you made this, but that idea that you're talking about, I di- I came across this, this morning. Is this-

   2. SPShaan Puri29:00

      Oh, yeah.

   3. GMGeorge Mack29:00

      Did you make this?

   4. SPShaan Puri29:01

      Yeah. It's been on my-

   5. GMGeorge Mack29:01

      But can you take us through it? This is one of the best things that I've ever seen.

   6. SPShaan Puri29:04

      It's a classic.

   7. GMGeorge Mack29:04

      And I loved it being resurfaced.

   8. SPShaan Puri29:06

      I'll tell you the story of this. I'm at a Tony Robbins event, and on day two, Tony doesn't perform anymore, which I didn't know. [laughs] So you go to Tony Robbins, he does day one, you're, it's amazing. You show up for day two, and they're like, "By the way, Tony's been doing this for 40 years. His vocal cords are shredded. He just did 15 hours on stage yesterday." So he takes the second day off, he comes back the third day. So this other guy gets up there, and he does like a warm-up game. So he's like, "We're gonna play Simon Says." And like, as if being at a Tony Robbins self-help seminar was not already like, you know, humiliating enough.

   9. GMGeorge Mack29:34

      [laughs]

   10. SPShaan Puri29:34

       Now we're playing Simon Says with 5,000 people in an auditorium. But you know, I'm at the event, so let's play along. So he said, "Yeah, stand up." So everybody stands up, and he starts playing Simon Says. And I like, part of me is just like, "This is kind of stupid, but let, let me give it a shot." I, um, so within five minutes the game is over, which is kind of amazing. Out of 5,000 people, like the game ends very quickly. There's like four people left at the end, and he calls them up on stage and I'm like, "Dude, we don't need to hear their victory speech. It was Simon Says, it's no big deal." And he, he, but he brought up a very interesting point. He goes, uh, "Okay, you guys won." He goes, "Let me ask you a question. For the people in the crowd, when I said we're gonna play Simon Says, and you looked around, saw 5,000 people stand up. How many of you believed you were going to win Simon Says?" And he's like, "Stay standing if you believed you were gonna win." And already like 80, 90% of the people sat down. Like we just- We didn't c- we didn't care, we didn't think. It just seemed unlikely. And so he goes, um, "These four people were only competing against these 32 people." And he's like, so, you know, it, it... Yeah, and he, and when I saw that, I was like, "Wow, that's actually a pretty good parallel for life." So I wrote this blog post much later, which is, in any endeavor, let's say there's a, you know, 1,000 people. The first half, too afraid to try. They won't put the buy button on the tweet-

   11. CWChris Williamson30:49

       Mm-hmm

   12. SPShaan Puri30:49

       ... 'cause they don't wanna find out the answer.

   13. CWChris Williamson30:51

       Nobody wants to learn, yeah.

   14. SPShaan Puri30:51

       They don't wanna pay that price of status-

   15. CWChris Williamson30:53

       Yeah, yeah

   16. SPShaan Puri30:53

       ... for going and doing. Then you have the people who are the dabblers. They'll give up within three attempts. And, uh, they'll say, "We tried it, it doesn't work."

   17. CWChris Williamson31:00

       Yeah.

   18. SPShaan Puri31:00

       And so they'll, they'll tell you a great story. Then you have the people that are doing it, but they're moving so slowly they've effectively lost all momentum.

   19. CWChris Williamson31:06

       Mm.

   20. SPShaan Puri31:07

       You got the people at the end who get distracted by a shiny object. And then [laughs] finally it's you and one other dude at the end. [laughs] And like, competition, the idea that the world is so saturated, so competitive. Like, people get... You get fed this idea. I just don't actually believe it's true. And like Charlie Munger has this, has this phrase which he says, "Take a simple idea and take it seriously."

   21. CWChris Williamson31:26

       Mm.

   22. SPShaan Puri31:26

       And it is shocking how few people will take a simple idea and take it seriously. Like, I would say your career/Instagram account is what? Like, you literally take, like-

   23. CWChris Williamson31:36

       One idea, yeah

   24. SPShaan Puri31:37

       ... you, you started off with like, Naval said some dope shit. Let me just try to make a black and white, dots and lines, like, s- you know, like pen and paper-

   25. CWChris Williamson31:46

       Mm-hmm

   26. SPShaan Puri31:46

       ... drawing of that idea. But you took it seriously, you did it better than anyone else would do it. And like suddenly at this-

   27. CWChris Williamson31:52

       And you did it first. You moved quick enough to do it first, too

   28. SPShaan Puri31:54

       ... it might have felt that way. I bet there's other people, like-

   29. CWChris Williamson31:57

       Yeah

   30. SPShaan Puri31:57

       ... that were-
6. 36:46 – 39:54

   Are Dopamine Websites Just Shopping Porn?

   1. CWChris Williamson36:46

      at checkout.

   2. SPShaan Puri36:46

      Have you guys, uh, done any non-shopping lately? Have you done any, any never arrive shopping?

   3. GMGeorge Mack36:52

      Oh, this, these dopamine websites.

   4. CWChris Williamson36:53

      I heard about that.

   5. SPShaan Puri36:53

      Dopamine websites.

   6. CWChris Williamson36:54

      Yeah.

   7. SPShaan Puri36:54

      Yeah, these are crazy. Have you seen this? Okay, we've all seen it. Maybe I shouldn't-

   8. SPSpeaker36:58

      I've seen it in action

   9. SPShaan Puri36:59

      ... not brought-

   10. SPSpeaker36:59

       I've seen it in a- I've heard about it, but I've seen it

   11. SPShaan Puri37:01

       ... so I, I went and actually used it. Uh, it's surprisingly a little less, uh... I think there's room for improvement in this, but the concept is basically what porn did for sex, the South Koreans have figured out to do for everything else. [laughs] And so they're doing it for shopping.

   12. SPSpeaker37:14

       Because they've already got a birth rate so low that sex is pointless.

   13. SPShaan Puri37:17

       [laughs] Well, like, th- this... So basically they have these food delivery apps where you can go and you can order. So this is Food Never Comes. You go and you install the app. So I had, I had the app and I went and I started shopping at all these restaurants that don't exist, and I started picking dishes that I'm never gonna eat.

   14. SPSpeaker37:30

       Jesus Christ, there's pop-ups.

   15. SPShaan Puri37:32

       And then I pa-

   16. SPSpeaker37:32

       They've got Chrome extension

   17. SPShaan Puri37:33

       ... I paid for expedited shipping for a product that's never gonna ship, and then at the end of the day, I got the satisfaction of shopping without ever having to pay a cent.

   18. SPSpeaker37:42

       Did you though?

   19. SPShaan Puri37:43

       And so the makers of Food Never Comes have now released, um, like the, like, uh, Travel Never Comes or something like that. It's basically like, uh, uh-

   20. SPSpeaker37:51

       You can shop for a holiday that you're never gonna go on?

   21. SPShaan Puri37:52

       Yeah, so you, you plan a vacation, uh, that nev- that doesn't cost you a cent 'cause you're not gonna go on it. And this is actually apparently quite popular in South Korea.

   22. SPSpeaker38:00

       Oh, there it is, Trip Never Leaves. It's at the top.

   23. SPShaan Puri38:02

       Yeah, Trip Never Leaves.

   24. SPSpeaker38:02

       "Book the trip, skip the airport."

   25. CWChris Williamson38:04

       I would way rather have a Shopify store that's just going up, so I look at it, I'm, "I've made 5 million today," and then I'm getting offers from, like, private equity companies.

   26. SPSpeaker38:11

       Oh.

   27. SPShaan Puri38:11

       Oh.

   28. SPSpeaker38:11

       Business never sells.

   29. CWChris Williamson38:11

       That's actually way more fun. Yeah.

   30. SPSpeaker38:13

       Business never sells is great.
7. 39:54 – 41:13

   Why TV Shows Have to Keep Repeating the Plot

   1. CWChris Williamson39:54

      We were talking about, um, the exposition, the increased exposition that's needed in, uh, TV shows now, where... What was the word that was used? It's not exposition. Piloting. Piloting. It's called piloting, where, "Okay, so it's really important. We need to make sure that we've got the rock salt and the shotgun. You've got it, right? Cool. Okay." Three minutes later, they're about to go into the bank, and it's like, "Don't forget, the rock salt and the shotgun."

   2. SPShaan Puri40:16

      [laughs]

   3. CWChris Williamson40:16

      And then the rock salt and the shotgun becomes, like, a pivotable part-

   4. SPShaan Puri40:18

      Yeah

   5. CWChris Williamson40:18

      ... because someone forgot to do it-

   6. SPShaan Puri40:19

      Right

   7. CWChris Williamson40:19

      ... and then they kill someone or whatever. But you need to continually restate the premise because people are double screening or they're not paying attention-

   8. SPShaan Puri40:27

      Mm

   9. CWChris Williamson40:27

      ... quite so much. And the same thing's true. I think that there's a study... Mark, see if we can ChatGPT, th- this might be out- outside of its realm, but go big dick pro, um, what are the number of cuts in each Fast and Furious movie? And I'm sure that the total-

   10. SPShaan Puri40:43

       It's increasing

   11. CWChris Williamson40:43

       ... volume of cuts has gone up-

   12. SPSpeaker40:44

       Oh, yeah

   13. CWChris Williamson40:44

       ... over time. So pa, pa, pa, pa, pa, pa, pa, pa, pa, pa, pa, pa.

   14. SPShaan Puri40:46

       It's like the Big Mac index of attention.

   15. SPSpeaker40:48

       Yeah, almost.

   16. CWChris Williamson40:49

       Certainly.

   17. SPShaan Puri40:49

       It's like Fast and Furious is the perfect index of people's attention [laughs] 'cause it'll-

   18. CWChris Williamson40:52

       I, I-

   19. SPShaan Puri40:52

       ... it'll be around forever for eternity.

   20. CWChris Williamson40:53

       It's been... What, when was the first Fast and Furious, 20 years ago? 15 years ago?

   21. SPSpeaker40:56

       Oh, man, had, had to be 20. Yeah.

   22. CWChris Williamson40:58

       Yeah. And then it was just two guys drag strip racing, and now they're firing cars off ramps into helicopters. The... You know, like-

   23. SPSpeaker41:06

       Faster and Furious more.

   24. CWChris Williamson41:07

       More faster and more furious.

   25. SPSpeaker41:08

       Yeah.

   26. CWChris Williamson41:08

       Yeah, exactly. And more racially diverse as well-

   27. SPSpeaker41:10

       Mm-hmm

   28. CWChris Williamson41:10

       ... which I think is important.

   29. SPShaan Puri41:11

       [laughs]

   30. CWChris Williamson41:12

       Uh, this may take a little bit

8. 41:13 – 45:34

   Why Detailed Movie Commentary is So Popular

   1. CWChris Williamson41:13

      of time, so.

   2. SPShaan Puri41:13

      Have you seen the guy who's building his empire off of Fast and Furious deep cuts? The guy on Instagram who basically, he's just a sommelier of Fast and Furious.

   3. SPSpeaker41:21

      Oh, incredible.

   4. SPShaan Puri41:22

      So he'll be like-

   5. SPSpeaker41:22

      Incredible. [laughs]

   6. SPShaan Puri41:23

      So he's just sitting and, and he's complete-

   7. SPSpeaker41:24

      [laughs]

   8. SPShaan Puri41:24

      His character's amazing. He's so deadpan. He'll be like, "Top five, uh, key tosses in Fast and Furious."

   9. SPSpeaker41:29

      [laughs]

   10. CWChris Williamson41:30

       [laughs]

   11. SPShaan Puri41:30

       "Let's, let's take it from the top. Vin, classic left-hand toss, no-look catch. Number four, we have this." And he's just going-

   12. SPSpeaker41:37

       Take a simple idea and take it seriously, yeah

   13. SPShaan Puri41:38

       ... but he's doing it on every minor thing that could happen in a franchise.

   14. CWChris Williamson41:41

       Didn't he do one about, like, best beer chinks or something?

   15. SPShaan Puri41:43

       Yeah, yeah, exactly.

   16. CWChris Williamson41:43

       Or best Corona, best Corona swings.

   17. SPSpeaker41:45

       Ah, yeah, Corona.

   18. SPShaan Puri41:45

       Corona, Corona swings in Fast and Furious.

   19. SPSpeaker41:47

       Corona one.

   20. SPShaan Puri41:47

       And he's exploded. He's-

   21. CWChris Williamson41:48

       Let's hit him up. Let's make him more famous

   22. SPShaan Puri41:50

       ... I've, I mean, I binged his stuff. I was like, "This is honestly, like, top tier content." [laughs]

   23. SPSpeaker41:53

       You gotta get niche. You gotta get niche with that. It's incredible.

   24. CWChris Williamson41:55

       Anyone that loves anything that much-

   25. SPShaan Puri41:58

       Yeah, I mean-

   26. CWChris Williamson41:58

       ... or is that good at anything, there's these dudes called Crown Cinema, the O is missing, and they do a s- the most obsessive deep dives into movies. It's a little bit more expertise. It's not, like, flippant around something that's kind of a bit silly. But th- the most incredible breakdowns of, uh, like Shutter Island or Inception-

   27. SPShaan Puri42:18

       Right

   28. CWChris Williamson42:18

       ... and, like, the best explanation of a million things that you didn't notice.

   29. SPShaan Puri42:22

       Right.

   30. CWChris Williamson42:22

       Even if someone's like, "Yeah, I, uh, Inception's one of my favorite movies. I get it. Like, Christopher Nolan's a bit of a genius," or whatever.
9. 45:34 – 48:03

   Could You Win Scrabble in a Language You Don’t Speak?

   1. SPShaan Puri45:34

      Um, but this, I gotta tell you about the Scrabble guy. It's un- unbelievable story. So the claim is this: this guy is better at Scrabble than anyone is at any game compared to their peers. So the gap between him and everybody else is bigger than Magnus and everybody in chess, Jordan and everyone in basketball. And so i- i- if you watch this thing, the story's crazy. This guy, and doesn't play Scrabble till he's 28 years old, and now he's like, you know, world champion so many times over. But not only is he the world champion in like US Scrabble, he then won the UK championship, which is like oddly has 50,000 words difference-

   2. GMGeorge Mack46:09

      Wow

   3. SPShaan Puri46:09

      ... that you can't use and can use.

   4. GMGeorge Mack46:10

      Wow.

   5. SPShaan Puri46:11

      Then they were like, "Okay, great, you're s- you're just the best at Scrabble. No big deal." So he goes and he wins the Si- the Spanish and French also, despite not knowing how to speak the language.

   6. GMGeorge Mack46:21

      Gee, I am-

   7. SPShaan Puri46:22

      He is literally like, uh, such a mental dictionary that he studied the language and he can beat the best players from those countries who've been playing since they were children-

   8. GMGeorge Mack46:29

      Jesus

   9. SPShaan Puri46:29

      ... and are fluent in that language, and he defeats all of them. And so he won it in France. He couldn't even, at the acceptance speech, he couldn't say like, "Thank you so much," so he's like, "Can you just tell them thank you?" Uh, but he just def- [laughs] like dominated the competition, and you could see all these guys who their whole life they've been playing and it's like-

   10. GMGeorge Mack46:46

       Devastated

   11. SPShaan Puri46:46

       ... it's like the guy who, uh, you know, lost to AI in, uh, Go, and they were just like, "My life is meaningless." Like, this is crazy.

   12. CWChris Williamson46:52

       This guy's like, uh, Ben's kid-

   13. SPShaan Puri46:54

       [laughs] Yeah, exactly

   14. CWChris Williamson46:55

       ... with maths, but for Scrabble.

   15. SPShaan Puri46:56

       For Scrabble.

   16. CWChris Williamson46:57

       He's a fucking savant.

   17. SPShaan Puri46:57

       And by the way, you should put up a picture. He looks exactly like you would expect as well [laughs] .

   18. CWChris Williamson47:01

       Nigel Richards?

   19. SPShaan Puri47:02

       Yeah, this guy.

   20. GMGeorge Mack47:02

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson47:03

       [laughs]

   22. SPShaan Puri47:03

       And so like his first tournament, he rode his bike 222 miles to get to it, won, and then ca- dr- like rode home. [laughs] It's like just unbelievable.

   23. GMGeorge Mack47:12

       Jesus, this guy.

   24. SPShaan Puri47:13

       And the clips, I'm watching clips and they're like, all right, he gets these letters and they're like C, H, D. Oh, he's gonna be able to play children. That's gonna be a very nice score. We're, we're excited about children. And then he- they're like, "He's pausing. Why is he pausing? What could he be thinking? Nigel, what do you have up your sleeve?" And then he'll go, "Chlorodyne." And they're like, "Ah."

   25. GMGeorge Mack47:28

       [laughs]

   26. SPShaan Puri47:29

       And they're like, "Lose our minds." You know.

   27. CWChris Williamson47:33

       That's a general word for it, Nigel.

   28. GMGeorge Mack47:33

       Damn.

   29. CWChris Williamson47:33

       I want, I want the guys that did the commentary to go over the top with the Scrabble thing.

   30. SPShaan Puri47:38

       Yeah, if we just merge, we have it.
10. 48:03 – 50:18

    Do All Chickens Come From Just Two Types?

    1. GMGeorge Mack48:03

       I saw the thing recently. Have you seen the thing around the two types of chicken?

    2. CWChris Williamson48:08

       Yes.

    3. GMGeorge Mack48:08

       You see this?

    4. CWChris Williamson48:09

       Yes. Yes. The, uh, there's basically every single chicken on the planet is one of two different-

    5. GMGeorge Mack48:13

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. So again, I've been eating chicken my entire life. I've never thought that deeply about it, but it's, but I just literally pulled it up then.

    6. CWChris Williamson48:20

       It's new sleep for you?

    7. GMGeorge Mack48:21

       Yeah. [laughs] Um, i- in, uh, basically there's dozens of breeders of different types of chicken, and it's shrunken all the way down to Cobb-Vantress, owned by Tyson-

    8. CWChris Williamson48:31

       Massive fan of the Cobb

    9. GMGeorge Mack48:32

       ... and Aviagen, owned by Germans EU group. Their flagship products, the Cobb 500 and the Ross 308, and we basically got rid of all of the different variations of chicken. It's a, I assume it's sort of like-

    10. CWChris Williamson48:42

        What, you talk like genetically there's only two chickens.

    11. GMGeorge Mack48:44

        It's almost like there's only Poodle and Rottweiler.

    12. CWChris Williamson48:46

        I see.

    13. GMGeorge Mack48:46

        We've kind of slowly, because these chickens, whether it's to do with the fatness and how we eat them, and the amount of these chickens, the line was something around if, um... Oh, these two-

    14. CWChris Williamson48:57

        The Cobb 500.

    15. GMGeorge Mack48:57

        Yeah, this was the Cobb Five thou- uh, Cobb 500. Yeah. [laughs]

    16. CWChris Williamson49:00

        I'm a massive fan of the Cobb 500.

    17. GMGeorge Mack49:01

        Cobb 500. Yeah, yeah.

    18. CWChris Williamson49:02

        Yeah. I'm a big Cobb 500 guy But, uh- Yeah, how quickly they grow ... somebody was saying that if you was to just look at the, um, kind of biodiversity of Earth as an alien, you'd just see the number of- Chickens ... chicken skulls, 'cause we're getting through millions of these, uh, sorry, trillions of these Carb 500s a year. If you're gonna spend an hour in the gym, you might as well look hot and feel comfortable while you're doing it. And honestly, who wants to be in the background of a TikToker's highlight reel dressed like a chump? Gymshark makes some of the best men's and women's training gear on the planet. And something that I realized a few years ago is that when you actually like what you're wearing in the gym, you show up differently, you train harder, you stay longer, and get way more high fives. The hybrid shorts are my go-to. They are the perfect length, super lightweight, easy to wash and dry, and their sleeveless T-shirts are what I've trained in every day for basically the last decade. They're the ideal fit. They're breathable. They hold their shape perfectly. No more looking like Adam Sandler's your stylist. Basically, everything they make is unbelievably well designed. You already know about them. They're high quality. You get 30 days of free returns globally with global shipping and a 10% discount sitewide. So, get that 10% discount by going to the link in the description below or heading to gym.sh/modernwisdom and using the code MODERNWISDOM10 at checkout. That's gym.sh/modernwisdom and MODERNWISDOM10 at checkout.

11. 50:18 – 56:50

    Is the Story Behind Art Better Than the Art Itself?

    1. CWChris Williamson50:18

       Where... I thought this, I was walking to the gym the other day and there was a ton of birds sat on a, a lamppost, lots of birds. Where are all of the dead animals? That's a great question. Where- Mm-hmm ... 'cause there's loads of animals that I see that are alive, and almost none that I see that are dead. But the dead ones have to go... The l- live ones end up dead- Right ... somehow. Like, where, where are all the vultures? Well, where are all the vultures?

    2. GMGeorge Mack50:37

       They get ingested by something else.

    3. CWChris Williamson50:39

       Where are all the vultures then that are eating them, right? Like, I, okay, so-

    4. GMGeorge Mack50:42

       Foxes

    5. CWChris Williamson50:42

       Okay, but are foxes eating the skulls of squirrels?

    6. GMGeorge Mack50:45

       Yeah.

    7. CWChris Williamson50:45

       Where's all the squirrel skulls?

    8. GMGeorge Mack50:46

       They eat skulls.

    9. CWChris Williamson50:47

       The skulls.

    10. GMGeorge Mack50:47

        No, I think they just, they just-

    11. CWChris Williamson50:48

        Like a python Got an Instagram page. [laughs]

    12. GMGeorge Mack50:50

        I think they just, I think they just d- they, they're not like housing-

    13. CWChris Williamson50:53

        Just use a knife and fork on it

    14. GMGeorge Mack50:54

        ... they just house the whole animal.

    15. CWChris Williamson50:56

        Yeah.

    16. GMGeorge Mack50:56

        But it's, um, it-

    17. CWChris Williamson50:57

        I can't tell if you're just saying it confidently or you know the answer

    18. GMGeorge Mack50:59

        I f- I mean, it must be.

    19. CWChris Williamson51:01

        Yeah, it's, okay. [laughs]

    20. GMGeorge Mack51:01

        It's not like a service.

    21. CWChris Williamson51:01

        I thought it was like a surely it's this. [laughs]

    22. GMGeorge Mack51:03

        Okay.

    23. CWChris Williamson51:04

        You know, my dog, okay, my dog will like, if it found a carcass in the garden, it's just gonna eat it. It's gone. Yeah. And like- But what they look- ... feral animals will definitely do that But I don't s- Um. I don't know.

    24. GMGeorge Mack51:14

        What I love though, and you could do this-

    25. CWChris Williamson51:16

        Raccoon

    26. GMGeorge Mack51:16

        ... is there will be a, there'll be a guy or a woman out there who's spent 20,000 hours around animal decomposition, and they'll be the person of Scrabble for this. And I love, I told Chris this one before, but whenever I meet somebody who's an expert in any industry of... I'll often come at them with my questions of like, "So what's happening here?"

    27. CWChris Williamson51:33

        Yeah.

    28. GMGeorge Mack51:33

        And they kind of answer my layman shit. But my favorite question now is to just go, "What's the most fascinating thing that people like me don't appreciate but keeps, that you think is the most intriguing thing?" And it's like a fucking hole.

    29. CWChris Williamson51:47

        Such a banger. It's such a banger question.

    30. GMGeorge Mack51:50

        What do you, what do you think about that for, like, art that, like, laymans like me, Chris, or Shaan don't really think about, but is actually really intriguing to people in the industry?
12. 56:50 – 1:00:35

    The Marketing Genius of Grey Goose

    1. SPShaan Puri56:50

       This is... That's, that's kind of the story of Grey Goose. Do you guys know this backstory of Grey Goose? Uh, the, the guy who started Grey Goose is such a legend. He, um, he first s- uh, popularized, uh, Jagermeister, but the... Like-

    2. CWChris Williamson57:02

       Mm.

    3. SPShaan Puri57:03

       It basically all started because of a, like, fight in the family. So I think, like, he married this woman. She's great. Her father was in the spirits business, and then they have a falling out, and he basically gets kicked out of the family business. But in a sort of memetic rivalry with the father, he decides, like, "Not only will I be successful, I will be successful in the spirits business."

    4. CWChris Williamson57:22

       Mm.

    5. SPShaan Puri57:22

       So he's walking around town, and he's thinking, like, "What's the entryway?" Like, "I have no experience, no contacts. Like, pretty competitive, saturated market. What am I gonna do?" And he sees this, like, German group of, uh, you know, older people, and they were drinking something in, like, a small thing, like a little tiny shot glass, but they were, like, sipping it. And he said, "What is this?" And they were like, "Oh, it's Jagermeister. It's a sort of aperitif. It's like a after-dinner, like, sort of thing that you sip on." And it's like m- it almost, like, tastes medicinal if you're, you know, had Jager. And so he, he goes and starts reading about it, and he's like, "Okay. Uh, you know, good news is, uh, [laughs] bad news is this tastes bad, and nobody really cares-

    6. CWChris Williamson58:00

       [laughs]

    7. SPShaan Puri58:00

       ... about an aft- after-dinner sipping, you know, liquor." He's like, "But the good news is the rights are available because nobody wants this after-dinner thing." So he gets the rights to it, and he realizes, like, "I have to create the story around this." So he's like, he gives it to some people to taste test. He's like, "You know, this liquor has some pretty special properties. Can you figure out what they are? Like, I'm curious." And he just lets people just brainstorm what it might be. And someone's like, "I think it's kind of like an aphrodisiac." They come back, and he's like, "Sure is." So he starts-

    8. CWChris Williamson58:26

       [laughs]

    9. SPShaan Puri58:27

       He starts promoting it that way. And so he goes to bars, and he's like, "Oh, it's for young people."

    10. CWChris Williamson58:31

        Yeah.

    11. SPShaan Puri58:31

        So he goes to, like, college towns, and then he's like, "It's an aphrodisiac." He starts putting, like, newspaper clippings in the urinals that are like, "Banned aphrodisiac from Europe makes its way to, into the US. Parents warn of its effectiveness," whatever.

    12. CWChris Williamson58:43

        [laughs]

    13. SPShaan Puri58:43

        Uh, you know, the, "Doctors swear that this happens." And then he starts hiring, like, hot nurses to, like, inject... Like, like shoot it-

    14. CWChris Williamson58:50

        Uh-huh. Mm-hmm

    15. SPShaan Puri58:50

        ... into your mouth. And, like, it's this med- it's this me- medicine. And he turns it into, like, this whole thing. So he wins with Jager. And then when he's in his 70s, he's like, "You know what I'm gonna do? Co-found a new startup." And he decides, "I'm gonna go for vodka." And his process to create Grey Goose was, "Go find me the highest priced bottle of vodka. What is it?" They're like, "Oh, it's Absolut." He's like, "What's it priced?" He's like, "Great. We're 50% more than that. That's w- thing number one we know." He goes, "Thing two, uh, we want to be top shelf." So he's like, "We need a b- how big is the shelf, uh, height? We need to be taller than that, so the only place you can put it is the top shelf. Um, [laughs] it has to sit up there." So he designs the bottle, and they're like, uh, "Okay, we're working on the bottle. We don't even have the vodka." He's like, "Don't worry. We're gonna get the vodka. Go to France and get the vodka." They're like, "Vodka's made in Russia." He's like, "Yeah, but who wants that dirty Russian vodka? Imagine French vodka."

    16. CWChris Williamson59:36

        [laughs]

    17. SPShaan Puri59:36

        And they're like, "Okay." He's like, "Go find me some French vodka." And so they go find it, and that was basically how he created Grey Goose, was those three elements, working backwards and creating it. Uh, it's, it's really wild. This guy lived a wild life, this guy Sidney Frank. Like, he was, he got so old, but he just loved having a good time. He loved golfing, so when he couldn't golf, he would just pay four pro golfers to, like, golf on his behalf. And they would, like, w- kind of carry him, wheelchair him out onto the course, and he would, like, fly private with these guys. They would just have a good time. But, like, all the videos of him are, like, kind of, like, even in his 90s, being carried into the car, having a great time. This guy lived a big life.

    18. CWChris Williamson1:00:11

        Meanwhile, there is someone having their fifth hour of conversations about their business plan with ChatGPT today. That's it, yeah.

    19. SPShaan Puri1:00:17

        [laughs]

    20. CWChris Williamson1:00:18

        [laughs]

    21. SPShaan Puri1:00:19

        But, but that's kind of that where does it... Like, how deep does it go? It's like well-

    22. CWChris Williamson1:00:22

        Mm

    23. SPShaan Puri1:00:22

        ... the mar- marketing will, like, disillusion you, right? 'Cause you realize, like, all these everyday products that are so popular, the s- psychology underneath them was crazy.

    24. CWChris Williamson1:00:32

        Mm. The rabbit hole goes deep. Deep, deep, deep. Um,

13. 1:00:35 – 1:06:36

    Can We Define ‘Taste’ and ‘Slop’?

    1. CWChris Williamson1:00:35

       I w- on this, like, topic, uh, I've been thinking more about of, there's two, the two words of 2026, I think, and they're almost this kind of David Foster Wallace, the fish can't see the water anymore. But the two words that are thrown around constantly, taste and slop. And I'm fascinated by these two words and how little discussion there is around these two words. And taste in particular is a word that you can just, you can say, and I get to s- I get to say how high status I am by going, "The thing that's really important in 2026 is taste." [laughs] "And you fucking peasants don't have any fucking taste." Um, and slop's like the inverse of that, where somebody can just say the word slop now, uh, with no definition of what, why they mean slop. It's kind of like in a, a less emotionally charged way, but like the word racist or sexist, that you can just throw it around now. You can throw it around willy-nilly. [laughs] You can band it around the office willy-nilly. Um, and nobody knows exactly what it is. And there's a great essay, um, George Orwell's Politics and the English Language

    2. GMGeorge Mack1:01:37

       And he talks about how there's these new turns of phrase, like as a writer you can just put in there, "At the end of the day," or just turns of phrase which can just signal that I think people will like this-

    3. SPSpeaker1:01:47

       Right

    4. GMGeorge Mack1:01:48

       ... and I can seem smart, but there's no depth to this at all. And I'm fascinated by, 'cause Jack, you're somebody who I'd say has like what people would describe as taste, but I've been fascinated by how do you actually develop that muscle? And there's a wonderful exercise I got from my friend Billy, where it's like it's always very simple. Billy Oppenheimer, and he has this thing called, um, what I like about what I like, where whenever he sees something that he likes, he will just capture it, put in his phone, and then try and explain to himself why he likes it.

    5. SPSpeaker1:02:19

       Mm.

    6. GMGeorge Mack1:02:20

       And then w- I created a what I dislike about what I dislike, and then when I see something I don't like, I'll capture it and write it down. And then you also have like a little swipe file to go through when you're doing it, but I'm just fascinated by right now these two words in particular that everybody's using them and nobody defines it.

    7. SPSpeaker1:02:38

       Mm.

    8. GMGeorge Mack1:02:38

       Can you find, um... There's a quote by Ira Glass. It's like if, if you put Ira Glass taste-

    9. SPSpeaker1:02:43

       Taste gap

    10. GMGeorge Mack1:02:44

        ... the gap-

    11. SPSpeaker1:02:44

        Taste gap, I think it's called. Yeah

    12. GMGeorge Mack1:02:45

        ... the taste gap. It's like a one paragraph definition of like-

    13. SPSpeaker1:02:48

        It's so good

    14. GMGeorge Mack1:02:48

        ... having taste means you will always be dissatisfied with what you produce.

    15. SPSpeaker1:02:53

        Huh.

    16. GMGeorge Mack1:02:53

        Mm. This quote is from the American author Ira Glass. "Nobody tells this to people who are beginners. I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste, but there is this gap. For the first couple of years, you make stuff. It's just not that good. It's trying to be good, it has potential, but it's not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer, and your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase. They quit. Most people I know who do interesting creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn't have this special thing that we want it to have. We go through this, and if you are just starting out or if you are still in this phase, you gotta know it's normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap and your work will be as good as your ambitions, and I took too long to figure out how to do this than anyone I've ever met. It's gonna take a while. It's normal to take a while. You just gotta fight your way through it."

    17. SPSpeaker1:03:52

        Damn. Bang. [laughs]

    18. GMGeorge Mack1:03:54

        But it is ship it what's the... I, I can't remember. I think it was Shane Parrish who said, um, like, um, maybe Tiago Forte, like procrastination is bad because it stops you from doing stuff, but it's mostly bad because it stops you from shipping work at a volume sufficiently enough to r- work out what works.

    19. SPSpeaker1:04:12

        Mm.

    20. GMGeorge Mack1:04:13

        Like, if you don't ever... It's your thing about I'd rather be high conviction and wrong than low conviction and right.

    21. SPSpeaker1:04:17

        Yeah. I'd rather be, um, I'd rather be an idiot than a coward.

    22. GMGeorge Mack1:04:20

        Yeah.

    23. SPSpeaker1:04:20

        Yeah.

    24. GMGeorge Mack1:04:21

        Yeah. Because if you don't ever put stuff out, or if you only put stuff out when you know that it's going to work, you haven't actually learned all that much. Like learning a lot means, okay, I've got a big sample set, I've thrown a load of stuff out. But the, I mean, the shortest thing, at least for me, like taste is the ability to discern between good and not good.

    25. SPSpeaker1:04:37

        Right.

    26. GMGeorge Mack1:04:37

        And yeah, I would like... I would pair up the slop comment with basically you're outsourcing taste. I think that's what people are trying to refer to when they use the word slop. It's like there is a lacking intention in the output, and a lot of people think that that is like if any tool that has like an incredible amount of power was used, you're giving up some agency. And that I think that's like the-

    27. SPSpeaker1:05:02

        Yes.

    28. GMGeorge Mack1:05:02

        Done without taste.

    29. SPSpeaker1:05:03

        Mm. So I think slop is done without taste.

    30. GMGeorge Mack1:05:04

        And, and like the way that these things are trained, it's like the Claude, there's like textbook, like little marks on there that if you did not guide this with a certain amount of intention, it's just gonna show up every time.
14. 1:06:36 – 1:14:20

    Can AI Ever Be High Effort?

    1. GMGeorge Mack1:06:36

       This is the-

    2. SPSpeaker1:06:36

       Did I send you the Gossip Goblin thing? The Love Island thing?

    3. GMGeorge Mack1:06:39

       No. What? [laughs] No, go on.

    4. SPSpeaker1:06:40

       Can you find Gossip Goblin on, on, uh, Instagram?

    5. GMGeorge Mack1:06:44

       [laughs] I love that name. What is it?

    6. SPSpeaker1:06:46

       This is like AI film, and it's like you're not gonna mistake it for not being AI film, but the level of craft is absolutely unbelievable.

    7. GMGeorge Mack1:06:55

       Right.

    8. SPSpeaker1:06:56

       And-

    9. GMGeorge Mack1:06:56

       So they're, they're taking something that people would typically see, see as low effort and slop, but pushing it to its absolute limit?

    10. SPSpeaker1:07:02

        And I would say they're putting in like a level of effort in the production that you would associate with like any kind of like S-tier Hollywood production studio, you'll see in these outputs, like-

    11. SPSpeaker1:07:13

        So, like, what kind of birds are you into, love? You like them all sexy and stuff?

    12. SPSpeaker1:07:16

        Um, uh, I, uh, I... Well, all types, yeah. I love all birds, uh, girls, but, um, yeah, if I had to pick, I'd say I like the pretty ones when they look all sexy and stuff.

    13. SPSpeaker1:07:23

        Aw, are you calling me thick? You're so sweet. [slap] Potsy, you nasty slag. How could you? Gorbo's my man.

    14. SPSpeaker1:07:31

        Welcome to Lovers' Lagoon-

    15. SPSpeaker1:07:32

        Wow. [laughs]

    16. SPSpeaker1:07:33

        ... the show where Nero Cradle's finest, flirtiest, and feistiest singles fight, fornicate, and find love.

    17. GMGeorge Mack1:07:40

        [laughs]

    18. SPSpeaker1:07:40

        Come on.

    19. SPSpeaker1:07:41

        So come on-

    20. GMGeorge Mack1:07:41

        Hand out of your pants

    21. SPSpeaker1:07:41

        ... and take your hand out of your pants, and let's go meet the cast

    22. CWChris Williamson1:07:46

        Been a rough year, not gonna lie. Me hairline wobbled, my cornrows got nicks in, and the gooning got bad. Real bad. [laughs] But I've locked in now, and I'm ready to stop jester maxing and start mogging, bruv.

    23. SPShaan Puri1:07:58

        I'm a proper gent. I treat every bird like a princess and her father like an absolute king. Manners cost nothing, sweetheart.

    24. CWChris Williamson1:08:05

        I mean, it's even got-

    25. SPSpeaker1:08:06

        I wouldn't say I'm full of myself, but I'm the fittest sort here, aren't I? It's just maths, innit?

    26. CWChris Williamson1:08:14

        Don't know, really. [laughs] Nice villa though, yeah?

    27. SPSpeaker1:08:18

        I'm a romantic, I am. When a fella-

    28. SPSpeaker1:08:21

        Harrison

    29. SPSpeaker1:08:21

        ... pulls out a chair for me or opens a door, boom, me fanny flutters and I'm already planning our babies' names, yeah.

    30. CWChris Williamson1:08:28

        What's crazy is this is such a strong, like-
15. 1:14:20 – 1:20:02

    Is Everything Porn or a Casino?

    1. SPSpeaker1:14:20

       Little micro essay I was gonna send you boys about, um, the convergent- or everything is either porn or a casino. Let me try and find it.

    2. CWChris Williamson1:14:30

       [laughs] This is your idea that the UK is peak vape, vape shop energy.

    3. SPSpeaker1:14:34

       Yeah. There's a l- there's, uh, the number of-

    4. SPSpeaker1:14:37

       Wow

    5. SPSpeaker1:14:37

       ... vape shops and betting shops when I was back is truly absurd.

    6. SPSpeaker1:14:41

       Yeah. It's not a great indicator, is it?

    7. SPSpeaker1:14:42

       Show me your high street and I'll show you your country. [laughs]

    8. SPSpeaker1:14:45

       This is it. The, the, the, um, the Twitter handle is K-T-R-I-V-S, and the article t- the article is called Everything Is Gooner Casino.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:14:57

       [laughs]

    10. SPSpeaker1:14:58

        [laughs]

    11. SPSpeaker1:15:00

        The he- the ability to write good headlines since Sub Stack and Twitter articles have come around. Here we go.

    12. CWChris Williamson1:15:05

        Everything is gooner casino.

    13. SPSpeaker1:15:06

        Yeah, yeah. This is it. "When I read Jason's tweet on the weekend, I was so viscerally yucked. The last thing you want to see is a middle-aged man who could be your father tweeting about gooner content on the timeline. Jason, @SydneySweeney launches an OnlyFans competitor, and she's instantly the world's richest woman. I don't agree with this thesis here, but that's a convo for another day. It seems like if you're a builder right now, you have two options: creating gooner slop or building a casino. And if you're feeling ambitious and want real PMF..." What's PMF?

    14. SPSpeaker1:15:33

        Product-Market Fit. [laughs]

    15. CWChris Williamson1:15:34

        Product-Market Fit.

    16. SPSpeaker1:15:34

        You have some, you have some combination of both. 50 Cent. [laughs] The saying goes, sex sells. This is not new concept. Advertisers, marketers, record labels, and notable rappers have been pushing this agenda on us since the beginning of time. I vividly remember watching music videos as a child with 50 Cent and these video vixens-

    17. CWChris Williamson1:15:50

        Mm

    18. SPSpeaker1:15:50

        ... dancing in the background. Back when music videos were still a thing, you couldn't find one without hot women. The formula was quite simple: find a product, find a hot person, and create an ad with both pictured, and boom, you have people's attention. This was what virality looked like before we had manufactured algorithms and influencers doing the work for us on TikTok. Tom Ford took the concept very literally in his iconic 2007 campaign for Tom Ford for Men.

    19. CWChris Williamson1:16:13

        Jesus.

    20. SPSpeaker1:16:14

        The ads were considered too sexy. Magazines refused to run them, yet they're still one of the clearest and most iconic examples of sex selling to date. Tom Ford in 2007.

    21. SPSpeaker1:16:23

        It's pretty long, but if you go down, there's a, there's a two-by-two matrix that I think will, uh-

    22. CWChris Williamson1:16:27

        Illustrate

    23. SPSpeaker1:16:28

        ... will illustrate. But it's obviously based off the, on the back of the Sydney Sweeney stuff. But this is a-

    24. CWChris Williamson1:16:33

        Oh, I have seen this. Okay, so it's a, a matrix, pornography to not pornography-

    25. SPSpeaker1:16:38

        [laughs] Like, Sydney-

    26. CWChris Williamson1:16:39

        ... on the Y-axis.

    27. SPSpeaker1:16:39

        Why Sydney? [laughs]

    28. CWChris Williamson1:16:41

        Casino to not casino on the X-axis.

    29. SPSpeaker1:16:43

        [laughs] Uh...

    30. SPSpeaker1:16:45

        Yeah, and then maybe the next couple paragraphs will sum it up, but-
16. 1:20:02 – 1:31:28

    Should Kids Be Allowed to Use Devices?

    1. SPShaan Puri1:20:02

       Look, you know one of the two things I wanted to ask you guys kind of related to that article just then is two-- You've got four kids, three kids, and there's this whole very much pessimism right now around devices and-

    2. SPSpeaker1:20:13

       Mm-hmm

    3. SPShaan Puri1:20:13

       ... casinos or porn and, uh-

    4. SPSpeaker1:20:16

       Yeah

    5. SPShaan Puri1:20:16

       ... and addiction and all this sort of stuff, but you two are, like, very kind of optimistic, a little bit more nuanced of all my friends. How are you thinking about kids with devices and using all these things, as well as, like, education as a whole, like bringing kids into this? 'Cause people are making out like it's the worst time ever to be alive, which I, I disagree with, but it's this kind of media narrative.

    6. SPSpeaker1:20:34

       To be what age? To be, like, a kid?

    7. SPShaan Puri1:20:38

       Yeah, I think so, yeah.

    8. SPSpeaker1:20:39

       I think to be, like, a college-age kid right now would be very hard.

    9. SPShaan Puri1:20:42

       Mm-hmm.

    10. SPSpeaker1:20:42

        But I think, like-

    11. SPShaan Puri1:20:42

        I would agree

    12. SPSpeaker1:20:43

        ... I think the, like, growing pains-

    13. SPShaan Puri1:20:44

        Wh- why? I, I don't understand

    14. SPSpeaker1:20:45

        ... like, if you've committed to being taught whatever discipline in the, like, traditional way it's being taught and-

    15. SPShaan Puri1:20:53

        What was your major or degree?

    16. SPSpeaker1:20:55

        Uh, graphic communication it was called.

    17. SPShaan Puri1:20:57

        Oh, wow, okay. That's pretty spot on. [laughs]

    18. SPSpeaker1:20:58

        Yeah. [laughs]

    19. SPShaan Puri1:20:59

        What, what did you do?

    20. SPSpeaker1:21:00

        Uh, philosophy.

    21. SPShaan Puri1:21:01

        Philosophy? Which-

    22. SPSpeaker1:21:02

        Two business degrees.

    23. SPShaan Puri1:21:03

        Okay. All right. Maybe you guys all used your degrees. I, I was biology. I didn't use my degree. I don't know-

    24. SPSpeaker1:21:07

        Damn. Yeah

    25. SPShaan Puri1:21:08

        ... I don't know almost anyone that, like, in my life that, that-

    26. SPSpeaker1:21:11

        I guess I'm talking about vocational stuff more, yeah

    27. SPShaan Puri1:21:12

        ... kind of the thing they studied turned out to be what they did with the rest of their life. 'Cause y- you know, you're told to pick when you're 17, 18. In the, in the US-

    28. SPSpeaker1:21:19

        That's true

    29. SPShaan Puri1:21:19

        ... you major your freshman year of college.

    30. SPSpeaker1:21:21

        Yeah.
17. 1:31:28 – 1:34:03

    Are Brain Gyms on the Horizon?

    1. SPShaan Puri1:31:28

       have, to have to think. Do you guys think there's gonna be, like, brain gyms? Like, you know, um, there weren't gyms when we all worked and did manual labor.

    2. CWChris Williamson1:31:36

       Interesting. Yeah.

    3. SPShaan Puri1:31:37

       Like, the idea of, like, coming home from the field and being like, "Let me just get a quick pump" -

    4. CWChris Williamson1:31:40

       [laughs]

    5. SPShaan Puri1:31:40

       ... that wasn't a thing.

    6. CWChris Williamson1:31:40

       Yeah.

    7. SPShaan Puri1:31:40

       It's like, I just slogged in the field all day. It's when we all stopped slogging in the fields and the mines that we had to, like, we were just sitting all day. We had to come up with a place to go to go pick up heavy objects and put them back down. Is that what's gonna happen? Like, are we going to brain gyms where-

    8. SPSpeaker1:31:55

       Wow

    9. SPShaan Puri1:31:55

       ... we're not thinking?

    10. SPSpeaker1:31:55

        Artificial cognitive friction.

    11. SPShaan Puri1:31:57

        Yeah, like you go do Sudoku and shit, and like you're, you- it's like, "Oh, yeah, yeah," they lock up the device and you have to get an hour in. I'm like, "Man, I got such a good brain pump today." [laughs]

    12. SPSpeaker1:32:05

        Yeah.

    13. SPShaan Puri1:32:06

        You know what I mean? Like-

    14. SPSpeaker1:32:06

        That's a g- that's a great-

    15. SPShaan Puri1:32:07

        Is that what's gonna happen?

    16. SPSpeaker1:32:08

        That's a great point.

    17. SPShaan Puri1:32:08

        Well-

    18. SPSpeaker1:32:09

        But there isn't as much, uh, bottle service upside to the brain gym.

    19. SPShaan Puri1:32:13

        [laughs]

    20. SPSpeaker1:32:14

        It's true. And also you can't see-

    21. SPShaan Puri1:32:16

        You going with me?

    22. SPSpeaker1:32:17

        My, my big theory about the gym, about why it's so popular for a lot of people, especially bodybuilding-

    23. SPShaan Puri1:32:21

        You need belts like jujitsu or something like that.

    24. SPSpeaker1:32:22

        Yeah, exactly.

    25. SPShaan Puri1:32:23

        You need some other like signal.

    26. SPSpeaker1:32:24

        I grade you. I grade you.

    27. SPShaan Puri1:32:25

        Bandanas.

    28. SPSpeaker1:32:26

        [laughs]

    29. SPShaan Puri1:32:27

        That, that-

    30. SPSpeaker1:32:28

        The kara- the karate kid of Sudoku.
18. 1:34:03 – 1:36:13

    Will Stupidity Become a Status Symbol?

    1. SPShaan Puri1:34:03

       Yeah.

    2. SPSpeaker1:34:03

       There was a... Did you ever use that Muse headband back in the day?

    3. SPShaan Puri1:34:06

       No.

    4. SPSpeaker1:34:06

       Me, John, and Yousef were on it. Do you... Have you seen this? So it was a, a E- EG?

    5. SPShaan Puri1:34:12

       EKG.

    6. SPSpeaker1:34:12

       Or EKG brain, uh, thing.

    7. SPShaan Puri1:34:14

       Waves.

    8. SPSpeaker1:34:15

       So kind of like a headband.

    9. SPShaan Puri1:34:16

       Yeah.

    10. SPSpeaker1:34:16

        Yeah. This is it. Uh, forge the skill of attention, measure, track, and improve your most valuable asset. Used by NASA, Harvard, and over 1000 plus research labs. Trained on a billion minutes of s- of, of data. Yeah, so this is focus, see when your mind drifts, train it back. Endurance, train mental stamina with fNIRS. Sleep. Uh, oh, wow, it's r- they've really tuned this thing up.

    11. SPShaan Puri1:34:37

        Really liking that.

    12. SPSpeaker1:34:37

        So back in the day, the Muse 2, the top right thing was what we used to use.

    13. SPShaan Puri1:34:41

        Mm.

    14. SPSpeaker1:34:42

        That thing. That was what we used to use-

    15. SPShaan Puri1:34:43

        Oh, wow

    16. SPSpeaker1:34:43

        ... which was for-

    17. SPShaan Puri1:34:44

        Yeah

    18. SPSpeaker1:34:44

        ... um, uh, meditation. And, uh, you would put this on, and it would have little bird sounds when you were like-

    19. SPShaan Puri1:34:52

        Drifting or something?

    20. SPSpeaker1:34:53

        ... locked in. No, when you were locked in.

    21. SPShaan Puri1:34:54

        Oh, okay.

    22. SPSpeaker1:34:54

        The sound would get louder as you were more distracted, and then as your brain waves qui- I have no idea if this is even possible. I don't even know if it worked. We were all adamant this is gonna be the fix for my meditation technique-

    23. SPShaan Puri1:35:07

        Mm

    24. SPSpeaker1:35:07

        ... and do all the rest of it. But yeah, you can see they're active, neutral, calm. And, um, yeah, you-

    25. SPShaan Puri1:35:12

        What's that easier-

    26. SPSpeaker1:35:12

        What was your quote? All the gear and no idea.

    27. SPShaan Puri1:35:14

        No idea. [laughs]

    28. SPSpeaker1:35:15

        Yeah. It's e- it's easy to not be distracted when anybody attractive will leave the room.

    29. SPShaan Puri1:35:19

        I... [laughs]

    30. SPSpeaker1:35:19

        Yeah. [laughs] Unless you have a colored version of a dystopian future.
19. 1:36:13 – 1:41:44

    Is the Moderate Left Becoming Less Cringe?

    1. SPSpeaker1:36:13

       Little q- q- q- q- question.

    2. SPShaan Puri1:36:15

       Question.

    3. SPSpeaker1:36:15

       Question. Um, what's an idea you've changed your mind upon in the last 12, 24, 6, 3 months? Just a, something you-

    4. SPShaan Puri1:36:25

       Mm

    5. SPSpeaker1:36:25

       ... you used to hold quite strongly or, or you no longer hold.

    6. SPShaan Puri1:36:32

       An idea you've changed your mind on?

    7. SPSpeaker1:36:33

       Mm-hmm.

    8. SPShaan Puri1:36:34

       Do you have one to lead us off, warm us up?

    9. SPSpeaker1:36:36

       No.

    10. SPShaan Puri1:36:36

        No. Okay.

    11. SPSpeaker1:36:37

        Brilliant.

    12. SPShaan Puri1:36:37

        [laughs]

    13. SPSpeaker1:36:38

        Well...

    14. SPShaan Puri1:36:39

        Thank you.

    15. SPSpeaker1:36:40

        You've got to give us a little, little time.

    16. SPShaan Puri1:36:41

        What the-

    17. SPSpeaker1:36:42

        It's a process. We got-

    18. SPShaan Puri1:36:43

        I've no- the longer you sit in silence, the more sophisticated what you're about to say sounds.

    19. SPSpeaker1:36:47

        Fair enough.

    20. SPShaan Puri1:36:47

        It's a...

    21. SPSpeaker1:36:48

        Definitely sounds, but it not necessarily is.

    22. SPShaan Puri1:36:50

        Yeah.

    23. SPSpeaker1:36:52

        Correct.

    24. SPShaan Puri1:36:52

        Yeah.

    25. SPSpeaker1:36:52

        But it's all about appearances, Chris.

    26. SPShaan Puri1:36:53

        Yeah, but I benefit from low expectations. Um, what the fuck have I changed my mind on?

    27. SPSpeaker1:37:00

        I think I just had it all right. [laughs]

    28. SPShaan Puri1:37:02

        Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a big one.

    29. SPSpeaker1:37:03

        Sorry, I'm not a good guy to ask. [laughs]

    30. SPShaan Puri1:37:05

        Yeah. Still, still, right. Don't have to be somewhat big. It could be somewhat small.
20. 1:41:44 – 1:47:59

    Are Heaven and Hell Like We Imagine?

    1. SPShaan Puri1:41:44

       I thought of one-

    2. CWChris Williamson1:41:45

       Go on

    3. SPShaan Puri1:41:45

       ... that's kind of like this. So what I changed my mind on, I'm not a very, like you were talking about religion, I'm not a very religious person. Uh, I posted a tweet the other day that just said, "Do you believe in God? Yes or no?" And, um, what do you think my, like, Twitter audience answered that?

    4. CWChris Williamson1:41:58

       Hmm. Uh-

    5. SPShaan Puri1:41:59

       What percentage said yes?

    6. CWChris Williamson1:42:00

       I'd say, uh, 35%, 40%.

    7. SPShaan Puri1:42:03

       Yeah. 40. 30, 40.

    8. CWChris Williamson1:42:05

       I was gonna go 60.

    9. SPShaan Puri1:42:06

       Oh, really? Yeah. You're closest. It was like 75% said yes. Wow. I was pretty stunned by this. 74. Yeah, 74% said yes. Um, it was- 3,000 votes as well ... 3,000 votes. Uh, which is like, my audience is, I would've guessed leaned a different way.

    10. CWChris Williamson1:42:20

        Yeah. Yeah.

    11. SPShaan Puri1:42:20

        Um, and I've bumped into a lot of people. Uh, s- but specifically there was a, a guy who came on the podcast that was talking about he had studied and read, um, of people who had had near death encounters, NDEs. And so it was p- somebody who died for 15 minutes and was resuscitated or was like, you know, they were out and they were on the brink, and then they came back. And it's like, not a lot of these people, but they're fascinating. So people go study like, "What'd you see? What happened?" And, um, one of the interesting things that he says is commonly, it's like alien spottings where different people say the same thing. They, it, you all say it flew this way. Like that's, how did you guys all coordinate that answer? Um, so the thing that popped up was this idea of your life flashes before your eyes, but not in the traditional sense. So like when people say that, oh, you know, my life flashed before my eyes, they think you're watching some replay of your life or highlight reel of, of your life, all the key moments of your life. And actually what these people say is, uh, the opposite, that basically, um, you see the events of your life, but from the point of view of the other person in the scene. Like, so if you're having a conver- if I was having a conversation with you, when I die I would see the same conversation, but from your perspective.

    12. CWChris Williamson1:43:32

        Hmm.

    13. SPShaan Puri1:43:33

        And it brings up this, like, really interesting idea of what is heaven and hell. So like imagine you had left people with these amazing e- encounters with you, and you- Wow ... left them feeling good, then it would look, it would feel like heaven, 'cause you would b- get this replay, this barrage-

    14. CWChris Williamson1:43:46

        Oh, profound

    15. SPShaan Puri1:43:46

        ... of the wonderful impact you had on all these other people. And if you were an asshole- You would feel, it would, you would see yourself and feel from their point of view-

    16. GMGeorge Mack1:43:56

        How you made them feel. Yeah

    17. SPShaan Puri1:43:56

        ... how you made them feel. And it's ca- it's karma-

    18. GMGeorge Mack1:43:59

        Mm-hmm

    19. SPShaan Puri1:43:59

        ... but, like, productized. It's like the actual, like, manifestation to, like, the, the shot version of karma where you had to b- blitz through and experience that, and it would feel like hell.

    20. GMGeorge Mack1:44:08

        Mm.

    21. SPShaan Puri1:44:08

        And so, like, I, I, I haven't looked into it. I haven't gone read... Like, he mentioned a couple of books and, and, and whatnot I'm gonna go read. But it was the first time the idea of heaven and hell didn't feel like a thing that I would tell my kids to scare them into behaving well. It was like, if that actually does, does happen, and like I've experienced things like déjà vu that I can't explain. I'm like, I've, I've viscerally felt this. So I don't know what the science is, but that, that shit has happened to me many times.

    22. GMGeorge Mack1:44:33

        Mm.

    23. SPShaan Puri1:44:33

        So this idea of, like, your life flashing before your eyes or seeing something, like, you know, very quickly in this, like, weird lucid dreaming type of way, I've kind of experienced that in déjà vu. If that's what happens when you die, and I just kinda, I almost like the idea of this, like, visual karma, [laughs] you know, this, this, uh-

    24. GMGeorge Mack1:44:48

        Mm

    25. SPShaan Puri1:44:48

        ... this blitz through your life. And again, it's kinda like, I don't know if it's true or not, but it definitely serves me if I believed that that was, if I kept that thought in mind as-

    26. GMGeorge Mack1:44:56

        Mm-hmm

    27. SPShaan Puri1:44:56

        ... I walk through life. And so it's-

    28. GMGeorge Mack1:44:57

        Mm.

    29. SPShaan Puri1:44:57

        .. a very different thing than the me-

    30. GMGeorge Mack1:44:58

        It's powerful
21. 1:47:59 – 1:54:09

    Why Leaving Big Tips Is Worth It

    1. SPShaan Puri1:47:59

       I just, on that one life hack that I've never actually thought about properly but has, I've just, like, reverse engineered from the last couple of years of life. Every so often leaving an absurdly big tip, if you can afford it, is... I, I think about the times that I've done that. I still think about them now, not in a very gratuitous way.

    2. GMGeorge Mack1:48:20

       Mm.

    3. SPShaan Puri1:48:20

       But there was-

    4. GMGeorge Mack1:48:21

       No

    5. SPShaan Puri1:48:21

       ... one time that, uh, I, I know you've got a story from Dubai, when you left Dubai, which kind of inspired this. Uh, I was in New York on tour last year, and this lady came in, and she was talking to us about how she'd basically finished the night shift, and w- it was 10:00 AM, 10:30 AM, and this was the, the double shift, but going from night to day as opposed to from day to night. And we left, like, a, I left a very big tip, and I was like, "Just, can we make sure that it goes to the person that was the server?" I did it, uh, before a podcast a couple of years ago in Florida when I was near Chris Bumstead's house in a Denny's. So the guy was just, like, so-

    6. GMGeorge Mack1:48:58

       Right

    7. SPShaan Puri1:48:58

       ... great and, and, and, you know, l- really, really lovely guy. That just as a life hack generally, I'm aware this is not as big as maybe getting on a plane and going and decorating somebody's house, and it is kind of transactional and flippant. It doesn't still require that much emotional involvement.

    8. GMGeorge Mack1:49:13

       Right.

    9. SPShaan Puri1:49:13

       But if you're on the path to learning to be a better, more pro-social human-

    10. GMGeorge Mack1:49:18

        Yeah

    11. SPShaan Puri1:49:18

        ... I think this is a good, hey, like, if you can do a, a 30% or 100% tip on, on a meal, like, s- that, I like the idea of that more than I like the idea of regularly doing 25% tips.

    12. GMGeorge Mack1:49:31

        Mm. Mm-hmm.

    13. SPShaan Puri1:49:31

        Yes.

    14. GMGeorge Mack1:49:32

        Because the impact of that is gonna be so much more.

    15. SPShaan Puri1:49:34

        [laughs] So, uh, this is crazy you said that. Like, even when I was just trying to explain, like, it's like try to explain why Gandhi is great. It's like, um, hold on. Uh, and I'm trying to pick random examples. I can't even think of it. But last night we're hanging out. We're on this boys trip. And so for the boys trip, each guy kinda contributed one segment of the trip. So it's like, I was like, "Oh, we're gonna go do this." One guy's like, "We're gonna go to a Muay Thai gym and, and spar each other. We're gonna go to this, to Barton Springs and go swim," whatever. And so one of the things he did extra, he was like, um, he brought $1,000 of cash and he's like, "You know, this is a thing that I do with my son." And he's like, "You know- Maybe once every couple weeks we'll go get some cash at the ATM, and he's like, "I just want him to learn, like, the joy of giving." And so he's like, "We spend the rest of the day. We start in the morning," and he's like, "We spend the rest of the day, like, trying to figure out how we can give this to, like, light anybody up to really, like, make a difference in anybody's life-

    16. SPSpeaker1:50:21

        Damn

    17. SPShaan Puri1:50:21

        ... that we see." And he's like, "Sometimes we just go buy dog food and we give it away to dogs at the shelter. Sometimes we pay-

    18. SPSpeaker1:50:26

        It's cool

    19. SPShaan Puri1:50:26

        ... for groceries and just-

    20. SPSpeaker1:50:27

        Amazing

    21. SPShaan Puri1:50:27

        ... we stay here till, till it runs out," but, like, you know, whatever. And he's like, "You know, I just do this because I want my son to learn that."

    22. SPSpeaker1:50:33

        Yeah.

    23. SPShaan Puri1:50:33

        Um, uh, but [laughs] and I was his son yesterday where he's like, you know, he hands us the money and, um, I, I'm like, it was, this was the hardest part. It was harder than sparring, was figuring out how to do this. It was, like, a lot of pressure.

    24. SPSpeaker1:50:45

        How do I give this money away?

    25. SPShaan Puri1:50:46

        How do I give this, and how do I do it well, and how do I do it, like, actually with some grace and some poise and not, like-

    26. SPSpeaker1:50:51

        Mm-hmm [laughs]

    27. SPShaan Puri1:50:51

        ... make the other person feel weird?

    28. SPSpeaker1:50:52

        Right. Yeah.

    29. SPShaan Puri1:50:52

        And how do I get over my own hesitat- It's like this is literally his money he's handed to me. It's for this purpose, but I'm like, "Oh, no, not that. Something better than that. They're not gonna use it well." It's like-

    30. SPSpeaker1:51:01

        Yeah. Yeah
22. 1:54:09 – 2:00:07

    How AI Can Be More Helpful Than We Think

    1. SPShaan Puri1:54:10

       Yeah. Change your mindie anything?

    2. SPSpeaker1:54:12

       My, my st- this is not gonna be anywhere near as profound. When I was thinking about when you first asked it, it was just all, like, tool AI stuff that came to my head, like the, uh, the last couple weeks with this, like, Muse rollout stuff.

    3. SPShaan Puri1:54:25

       Oh, yeah. What do you think?

    4. SPSpeaker1:54:25

       Like, what does everybody need an agent for?

    5. SPShaan Puri1:54:27

       [laughs]

    6. SPSpeaker1:54:28

       When, when, like, you're running and, and, like, building things every day and you're still running out of use cases. And I think I changed my mind on how useful people are finding that stuff. It's not like I changed my mind, but it-

    7. SPShaan Puri1:54:39

       Yeah

    8. SPSpeaker1:54:39

       ... it just turned out to be true that people are finding incredible utility from this stuff.

    9. SPShaan Puri1:54:43

       I've not paid attention much to the Muse stuff. Is it-

    10. SPSpeaker1:54:45

        Me neither

    11. SPShaan Puri1:54:45

        ... is it the, a lot more consumer-

    12. SPSpeaker1:54:47

        Basically a, a Facebook built-

    13. SPShaan Puri1:54:47

        ... people are using Muse?

    14. SPSpeaker1:54:48

        ... a Facebook-built agent tool that connects to your Instagram or whatever else and, like, instantly-

    15. SPShaan Puri1:54:55

        It's like having an assistant

    16. SPSpeaker1:54:55

        ... instantly looks at your email and it's like, "Okay, you could be doing this, this, and this. Did you know you've been paying for these subscriptions this long? And you could, you could, like, cancel this thing. You can enter this giveaway. You can..." And I've got friends that are, like, messaging me about-

    17. SPShaan Puri1:55:08

        Right

    18. SPSpeaker1:55:08

        ... like, "This thing just did, like, all of these amazing things for me." And my h- my, you know, my technology bias from two months ago would be like, "Oh, this is just, like, nobody's gonna find a use case for this, and they just, the, the Crocs-

    19. SPShaan Puri1:55:21

        Huh. [laughs]

    20. SPSpeaker1:55:21

        ... the Croc, the Croc, uh, presentation-

    21. SPShaan Puri1:55:24

        Don't da-

    22. SPSpeaker1:55:24

        ... turned out to be legit

    23. SPShaan Puri1:55:25

        ... don't doubt an Asian guy with a mullet, dude. That's the lesson. Don't doubt an Asian guy with a mullet.

    24. SPSpeaker1:55:28

        But yeah, I, I mean, I've been, I was a, I was a pessimist on, uh, like how useful that would be.

    25. SPShaan Puri1:55:32

        You know, one interesting thing about that, my, I gave it to my wife, and my wife's not really, like, a early adopter of tech.

    26. SPSpeaker1:55:38

        Mm-hmm.

    27. SPShaan Puri1:55:38

        You know, she, if I tell her to download an app-

    28. SPSpeaker1:55:39

        Gave what to her?

    29. SPShaan Puri1:55:40

        The, uh, like not Muse, but Instinct. It's, like, the same thing.

    30. SPSpeaker1:55:43

        Okay.
23. 2:00:07 – 2:07:31

    The Secret to a Great Product-Market Fit

    1. SPShaan Puri2:00:07

       Yeah.

    2. SPSpeaker2:00:07

       What about... Do... What have you changed your mind on?

    3. SPShaan Puri2:00:10

       Um, oh, one of them, um, is, uh, like a... I think a lot of people have this that come from advertising or marketing or sales. So if you kind of split the world into two people, you've got the engineers and you've got the, the people that sell it.

    4. SPSpeaker2:00:24

       Shape rotators and word sells.

    5. SPShaan Puri2:00:25

       Yes. And, uh, I think, and both of those people can run into two issues where they become the man with a hammer, and they see everything through that, and particularly people that go through like a performance marketing hole. They end up just seeing the customer as something that clicks.

    6. SPSpeaker2:00:38

       [laughs]

    7. SPShaan Puri2:00:38

       Something that gives them things. Um, and the big thing for me was really kind of going back to, well, what makes a good product? And kind of forgetting advertising or marketing. The same way like someone who's learned kickboxing can kind of forget it, go and do jujitsu, and then come back, and you combine them. It's actually quite a, a useful combination.

    8. SPSpeaker2:00:57

       Yeah.

    9. SPShaan Puri2:00:57

       And for me, I, again, product market fit's one of those words where it's a little bit like taste. It's a little bit like, what, what is that?

    10. SPSpeaker2:01:04

        Definitely.

    11. SPShaan Puri2:01:04

        Um, and they'll be like, "Well, your NPS score. If your NPS score says that 40% of people like hate the product, like what?" I'm like, "Give me something like I can drop on my foot. Like give me a tangible thing." And the big takeaway I had was, um, I got to know James from Element, um, who's like one of the smartest entrepreneurs I know, and he's like also annoyingly like a great human being. Like he's the loveliest guy. And, uh, we kind of worked together. I helped him like write a little project, and we hung out for like five days, and I realized the realization about product market fit, which was that if James sat me down at the end of those five days and just said, "George, can I be honest with you?" I'm like, "Yeah, sure, mate. Of course." And he goes, "I fucking hate you." He goes, "If you said I think this about your girlfriend, I think this about your mom, I think this about your family dog, I think it's all atrocious, I hate your country," I'd be kind of sat there for like four days going, "That was one of the worst experiences of my whole life." But come Friday, I'd be back on drinkelement.com ordering the watermelon salt because the product's that good.

    12. SPSpeaker2:02:02

        [laughs]

    13. SPShaan Puri2:02:03

        And that's my realization that product mar- like true product market fit is could you like fuck everything up and people would still buy from you? And the big lesson I actually had from a marketing lens was about five, six years ago, you'll probably know this, Shaan. There was a moment in time that everyone's forgotten about now where Apple released this new iOS change that was supposed to impact Facebook ads, post the whole Cambridge Analytica stuff, and it's just a storm in a teacup. Felt everything at the time, and now everybody forgets it.

    14. CWChris Williamson2:02:30

        But it was this idea that Facebook ads are going to die and all these businesses are gonna close down, and so many advertisers were furious. This is an example of antitrust. This is an example of monopoly. This is an example of abuses of power. How could Apple be allowed to do this and the US government isn't doing anything? That's what all the advertisers were saying, and I didn't see one, I didn't see one give up their iPhone. I was like, "That's product-market fit."

    15. SPSpeaker2:02:54

        Right. Mm-hmm.

    16. CWChris Williamson2:02:56

        Mm.

    17. SPSpeaker2:02:56

        It's so good that I'll buy it in spite of hating it.

    18. CWChris Williamson2:02:58

        Yes.

    19. SPSpeaker2:02:58

        And that is like the Amazon box phenomena. You know that? It's like complain about Amazon's business practices, but have like 10 boxes show up at your house every day.

    20. CWChris Williamson2:03:07

        All the-

    21. SPShaan Puri2:03:07

        Actually, Buffett used this. So Buffett made... The biggest gains of Buffett's life was, uh, the best investment he ever made was his Apple investment like f- six years ago or something like that, which is crazy because Apple's so obvious.

    22. SPSpeaker2:03:20

        Mm-hmm.

    23. SPShaan Puri2:03:20

        It's not like he found some obscure company called, in the, in Nebraska nobody's ever heard of. He just literally looked at Apple, which was like the third biggest company in the world at the time or whatever, and just put a huge check into it and grossed like this huge return, and this is like the iPhone had come out 10 years prior. Like, it was no surprise. And they were like, "You know, Warren, you never invest in tech usually. In fact, you were really good friends with Bill Gates, and you famously didn't invest in Microsoft even though he told you to and others did. And you've said like, 'I just didn't understand it.'" He goes, "Oh, yeah, 'cause Apple's, it's not about tech. It's about brand, and it's about product." He goes, and so Warren is famous for he would go s- like kind of stand in a store and he would ask people questions. So like one of his other wins was American Express when they had this big crisis, like there was a big fraud that happened and American Express had like... American Express had lent this guy a bunch of money because he said he had like a salad oil dressing and then like later they opened up the barrels and there was just seawater inside [laughs] and they were like, "Oh, shit, we lent this guy all this money and there's no salad oil to like collateralize." And he stood in a store and watched people swiping and he a- talked to the cashier. He's like, "Do you like distrust if somebody's gonna s- use American Express now?" And they're like, "American Express, that's, that's like, of course. I, like I trust American Express with my-

    24. CWChris Williamson2:04:31

        Mm.

    25. SPShaan Puri2:04:31

        "It's always gonna go through."

    26. CWChris Williamson2:04:32

        Mm-hmm.

    27. SPShaan Puri2:04:32

        So he realized people were mispricing it. Same thing with Apple. He was like, um, "If you have somebody with an iPhone, um, there is n- like you have to pry it from their dead, lifeless fingers to get them to switch by default." And he's like, "That is a un- unbelievable thing. They have unbelievable pricing power." And so he made all his money just by like talking to people that i- uh, who were iPhone users and realizing the extent of the, uh, the switching cost to them mentally in their head.

    28. CWChris Williamson2:04:57

        Forget even how much you might hate the person that's doing it, 'cause Kanye West is like the canonical example of that.

    29. SPShaan Puri2:05:04

        Mm.

    30. CWChris Williamson2:05:04

        Like how many ways can you put both feet in your mouth over a decade's period and then still sell out s- stadiums and have bangers?
24. 2:07:31 – 2:08:16

    Where to Find the Guys

    1. CWChris Williamson2:07:31

       All right, boys, I love you all. Where should people go to keep up... You've got a new project out.

    2. SPSpeaker2:07:36

       Yeah.

    3. CWChris Williamson2:07:36

       Where should people go to check it out?

    4. SPSpeaker2:07:37

       Just go to Twitter. Jack Butcher on Twitter, please.

    5. CWChris Williamson2:07:39

       Heck yeah.

    6. SPShaan Puri2:07:39

       Uh, get off Twitter and social media [laughs] and go read a book. A good book I recommend is Think On These Things by, uh, Krishnamurti. It's a good book.

    7. CWChris Williamson2:07:47

       Heck yeah. If you-

    8. SPSpeaker2:07:47

       If you like good books, um, highagency.com/books, all my favorite books.

    9. CWChris Williamson2:07:52

       Boys, I love you. This is fucking awesome. This stuff rules, and that's it.

    10. SPSpeaker2:07:55

        Let's go. Thank you.

    11. CWChris Williamson2:07:55

        See you next time. Goodbye, my beauties. Lam, lam. Dude. Woo! A quick note. Lots of people tell us that YouTube unsubscribes them from the channel even though they already pressed it. So just check down there and see if the subscribe button is pressed. You get access to episodes before anybody else. If you do, supports me and the show, helps me to bring you bigger and better guests, uh, and it makes me very happy. So just go and give it a tap for me. I thank you.

Episode duration: 2:08:17