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Dating, Cheetos, Liquor, Biden, Bernie & Fitness | Michael Malice | Modern Wisdom Podcast 140

Michael Malice is an author, political commentator & podcaster. What happens if Biden or Bernie end up going head to head with Trump in 2020? Who created Flamin' Hot Cheetos? Why is fast fashion killing the wiping rags industry? Is it hard dating when you were once on reality TV? What is the most popular Spirit on the planet? All this & more with my new best friend, Michael. Extra Stuff: Check out The Protein Works - https://bit.ly/TPWChrisWillx "52 Things I learned In 2019" article by Tom Whitwell - https://link.medium.com/v81qy68iE3 Buy Michael's Book - https://amzn.to/31soCH7 Follow Michael on Twitter - https://twitter.com/michaelmalice Take a break from alcohol and upgrade your life - https://6monthssober.com/podcast Check out everything I recommend from books to products - https://www.amazon.co.uk/shop/modernwisdom #michaelmalice #biden #bernie - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: modernwisdompodcast@gmail.com

Michael MaliceguestChris Williamsonhost
Feb 6, 202059mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:52

    Biden backlash fantasies, Hillary trilogy joke & ‘The Rock’ as future candidate

    1. MM

      So angry old man Biden is this kind of bubbling understory that I really need to see a lot more of and my dream is that he gets the nomination and he gets, let's say, physically incapacitated some ... God forbid, and then the party steals it and gives it to Hillary.

    2. CW

      (laughs)

    3. MM

      Which would, is not an impossibility at all and I would desperately love that to happen. I wanna see her lose three times.

    4. CW

      (laughs)

    5. MM

      It's like, uh, any mummy, any mummy movie you're gonna have a trilogy, right?

    6. CW

      Yeah, okay, yeah.

    7. MM

      We need the mummy to come back for the third time and get her final defeat.

    8. CW

      Where does Dwayne Johnson fit into this 'cause he must have to-

    9. MM

      The Rock? (laughs)

    10. CW

      Yeah. (laughs)

    11. MM

      He said he's gonna run.

    12. CW

      Is that what, is that what's happening? I'd vote for The Rock.

    13. MM

      I think 2024 maybe, yeah.

    14. CW

      Yeah, I'd vote for The Rock. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. Michael Malice in the building. Woo.

    15. MM

      That's true.

    16. CW

      There he is.

    17. MM

      Hi.

    18. CW

      How are you?

    19. MM

      I'm great.

  2. 0:52 – 3:17

    Remote-recording banter, pajamas, and a grim Newcastle true-crime detour

    1. CW

      Fantastic. What's been happening in ... Actually, no, first off, Dave Rubin got you in a full ensemble and I go, I get you in a T-shirt. What's happening?

    2. MM

      Uh, yeah, well, you also, this is Skype. You wanna, if you want, when you get a studio and not a bedroom, then I'll dress appropriately.

    3. CW

      Okay.

    4. MM

      I'm in my pajamas, see?

    5. CW

      Those are nice.

    6. MM

      Yeah.

    7. CW

      That's a nice check on the bottom, the bottom half.

    8. MM

      Thank you.

    9. CW

      You look cool.

    10. MM

      And I've got some nice farm socks for no reason.

    11. CW

      (laughs)

    12. MM

      So you're from Newcastle?

    13. CW

      Correct.

    14. MM

      Do ... I'm gonna impress you and make you uncomfortable.

    15. CW

      Hit me.

    16. MM

      The one thing I know about Newcastle which no other American knows is Mary Bell.

    17. CW

      I don't know that. What's that?

    18. MM

      Mary Bell was 10 or 11 and she was the youngest person convicted of murder in Britain. She killed two toddlers. And then she went to their house and she's like, "I wanna see Billy," and they're like, "He's dead, love," and she's like, "I wanna see him in his coffin," and they sentenced her to jail at age 11. She's from Newcastle, she's a Geordie. You didn't know this?

    19. CW

      That is the most harrowing story that I've ever heard.

    20. MM

      Yeah, and they left, like, notes, like, "Oh, there's murderers around," like a little kid handwriting. Yeah, you didn't know about this?

    21. CW

      No, not at all.

    22. MM

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. The book's called Cries Unheard.

    23. CW

      Fuck me. What a way to start ... Michael, come on.

    24. MM

      Yeah.

    25. CW

      What's the ... I've got, I've got stories about flaming Cheetos and stuff and you're talking about, like, child murder.

    26. MM

      Yeah.

    27. CW

      Child and child crime.

    28. MM

      Yeah.

    29. CW

      Wow. Come on then, what's-

    30. MM

      That's how I first, well, I heard ... Th- the other thing is that's how I learned about, that Newcastle is a thing, other than the beer which I adore.

  3. 3:17 – 5:14

    2020 memes, body-shaming limits, and Bloomberg as ‘benevolent dystopia’ manager

    1. CW

      2020's been sick. I've got a question for you. What is your favorite meme of 2020 so far?

    2. MM

      I'm, uh, of 2020, it's been short.

    3. CW

      You're not thinking there's been much good stuff out? I haven't seen much good stuff.

    4. MM

      I, I, I am blanking. Uh, have there been any good memes so far this year?

    5. CW

      It depends.

    6. MM

      What are some suggestions?

    7. CW

      I don't ... It depends on what you class ... I mean, this, um, standing on a box, this Bloomberg box thing, I don't know if that classes-

    8. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    9. CW

      ... as a meme, but oh my God, like, that is just ...

    10. MM

      It's, I don't know, I've, I've seen better.

    11. CW

      You don't like that one?

    12. MM

      No, I, I, I mean, I'm, I'm f- I'm a m- I'm a munchkin myself and there's so much worse things to hate him over.

    13. CW

      Okay, got you.

    14. MM

      I think when you do the body shaming stuff, it's weak.

    15. CW

      Mm.

    16. MM

      Because, like, when they say-

    17. CW

      Bro-bro.

    18. MM

      ... Trump ... Can I, can I curse on this show?

    19. CW

      Fire away, man.

    20. MM

      So when they talk about, like, how Trump has a small dick, it's like, "Okay." Like, "Wh- where you going with this?" You know?

    21. CW

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand. I get that. Uh-

    22. MM

      That's not the problem with Bloomberg. The problem is he's, like, a, you know, a crazy person.

    23. CW

      (laughs)

    24. MM

      He was our mayor. I'm, I'm from Brooklyn, you know, I remember his, uh, mayorship.

    25. CW

      Mm-hmm. What was that like?

    26. MM

      It wasn't that bad, but you knew if you scratched the surface, this person is dangerous.

    27. CW

      How so?

    28. MM

      'Cause he was very much a, "I'm going to manage every aspect of your life for your own good." You know, he was trying to ha- think of plans about how to have Manhattan not have any cars, to force everyone into public transport. He was ... I, I think you guys have that in London where, like, uh, the f- tolls on bridges change depending what time of day you use. So, like, everything is just kind of engineered from the top-

    29. CW

      Mm.

    30. MM

      ... very kind of benevolent Brave New World kinda situation. Um, so yeah, I'm not a, I'm not a particular, uh, um, fan of his.

  4. 5:14 – 6:46

    WallStreetBets: leveraged chaos for internet points

    1. CW

      So have you heard of WallStreetBets on Reddit? Do you know what this is?

    2. MM

      I've not, no.

    3. CW

      Oh, man. This is precisely your sort of thing. So I basically, I have absolutely no structure to today, but I've just got a load of individual facts that we can, that we, we can talk about and we can go through. And WallStreetBets is something I got introduced to recently, so it's a, a subreddit, and on here people make the most insane trades.

    4. MM

      Okay.

    5. CW

      Like, just someone who will remortgage their entire house and put it on Apple's stock going down by 5% by Thursday at 12:00 midday-

    6. MM

      Oh, Jesus, okay.

    7. CW

      ... and just, like, literally leverage their entire life purely for internet points from strangers that they've never met.

    8. MM

      Wow.

    9. CW

      I-

    10. MM

      That does not seem normal.

    11. CW

      N- No, but it is very fun. And if you just-

    12. MM

      Yeah.

    13. CW

      ... have a look, there's something called the Dankest Wall Street Bet Trades, which is like- (laughs)

    14. MM

      (laughs) I do like...

    15. CW

      ... which is like a mo- a quarterly roundup on YouTube (laughs) that's, like, commentated, and it's all of the dankest bets that someone's made. And, like, some of them are really good, like someone who makes, like, 200 grand in a couple of days, but most of them are just people blowing their whole life savings, like taking money out of their wife's account to, like ... And they remortgage the house and do everything, student loans in there as well. And then yeah, it, everything goes out the window. You, you need to check it out.

    16. MM

      Oh, that ... Okay, that sounds very disturbing.

    17. CW

      (coughs) A little bit. Not as disturbing as a child killing another child, though, Mi- Michael, so.

    18. MM

      You should read the notes. I can't even repeat them, the language in them.

    19. CW

      Oh my God.

    20. MM

      Yeah.

    21. CW

      Right, okay. I've got another thing to talk about actually-

  5. 6:46 – 8:53

    North Korea fades from headlines, while China inches toward ‘Songbun’ style control

    1. MM

      Yeah.

    2. CW

      ... 'cause you're, you're super expert on North Korea, right? But we're not hear-

    3. MM

      Yeah, it's true.

    4. CW

      We're not hearing anything about it at the moment. It's all China. China.

    5. MM

      China, yeah.

    6. CW

      We're all worried about China.

    7. MM

      It makes me sad, um, because for a little window there ... You know, I went there, I wrote a book about it, Dear Reader. The, I mean, this has been my work for a few years, like kind of s- proselytizing, you know, b- on behalf of these people who are all slaves, um, and trying to shift the focus from the dictatorship to, you know, the, the, the population there. And i- i- and it was very disturbing to see the subtext much more in the States than in ... You know, I was on the BBC, you know, doing talks on this, but this is much more in the States where the focus here is so much that Trump is the devil, it almost sounds like you're wanting this to fail. Whereas, you know, you should very much be hoping that, fine, he's the devil, but let's hope this devil pulls out a win on behalf of these, you know, people who've been a slave for 70 years. Uh, and now that it's completely fallen by the wayside, it's very, very discouraging. Um, it's clearly not as much of a priority for the president, um, and the media. And, uh, while that happens, the people ... You know, the, the ... Once you go there, everyone I've met is still there. You know, I see s- my guide on Instagram. She's a m- very wealthy by North Korean standards. She knows she's in a prison. She knows she can never leave. If she leaves, her p- family will be murdered publicly to make an example. That's how they do it. So it's, it's very, very disheartening, um, that it has kind of fallen by the wayside. And it's also disturbing that China is going in a North Korean direction. Uh, North Korean has some, North Korea has something called Songbun. Um, and in the '50s, they interviewed everyone in the country, literally everybody, and they figured out how reliable your family is vis-a-vis the government, and they slotted everyone's, like, a credit score into three classes.

    8. CW

      (laughs)

    9. MM

      Uh, hostile, wavering or loyal, and this determines everything about your life, including what city you live in, whether you can go to college, you know, who you marry and things like that. And now China is talking about doing this kind of social credit system, which will determine whether you can, like, leave the country. It's, it's very, very discouraging. Although the Hong Kong stuff is a, a, a little ray of hope.

  6. 8:53 – 12:21

    Data surveillance in practice: insurance, GPS inference, and uncomfortable correlations

    1. CW

      Yeah. I was talking to a data scientist a couple of weeks ago, and he was saying that because we have GDPR in the UK, you guys in America don't really have that, but you have some data protection laws and China is just, like, complete Wild West. Like, you can-

    2. MM

      Oh, yeah.

    3. CW

      There is no, there is no limit to what people can do. So here's one. Um, insurance companies are using people's GPS data on their phone, and if they find out that you are sleeping consistently in two different locations, that is strongly affecting your credit score. And the reason is if you're consistently sleeping in two different locations, it means that you are likely to be in a relationship. If you're in a relationship, you'll get engaged. If you get engaged, you'll get married. And if you get married, you'll probably get divorced, which means that you're a credit risk.

    4. MM

      But isn't it also if you're in two places, you're more likely to get in a car accident?

    5. CW

      Maybe that as well.

    6. MM

      Yeah, 'cause you're traveling more? Or-

    7. CW

      They're also, they're also using the speed at which people fill in their details on insurance forms to affect the amount they pay for insurance.

    8. MM

      Really?

    9. CW

      So if you fill ... They have a t- like a, the, the, uh, scraping the data about how much time it takes someone to fill in, and if it takes X amount of time, then this happens, and if it takes X plus two, then this happens, and X plus three, then this happens.

    10. MM

      Yeah, but there's a lot of research behind this. This is not based on nothing. You know, like actuaries, you know, i- i- it's amazing how quantifiable I think most human behavior is. Most human beings aren't really capable of, you know, critical thought or original be- action. So we don't know where this is based on, but I don't think it's tea leaves.

    11. CW

      No, not at all. It's absolutely ... So the guy that I was speaking to was like, "Look, all that they've done is modeled two different things."

    12. MM

      Yeah.

    13. CW

      The AI, the AI that they've got that's working behind this isn't malevolent or, like, nefarious. It's not going, "I'm gonna pick out the old people," or, "I'm gonna pick out the people in relationships." It is that in the past, if someone has characteristic A-

    14. MM

      Yeah.

    15. CW

      ... then B, and they're just modeling that. But the fact is that you can't hide the data. Like previously, your data about whether or not-

    16. MM

      Got it. Okay.

    17. CW

      ... you are in a relationship or whether or not you are take a l- f- 10 minutes longer to fill in your Social Security number or whatever it might be, wouldn't have been publicly available or wouldn't have been used at least to effect-

    18. MM

      Oh, that's very crazy that it's public. That's really cr- ... Yeah, because it, I mean, I bet you, like, there's a correlation between people who watch Modern Family and, and a beverage that they drink, right? It's ... And some other shows, some other beverage. That's how data works. But it's, that's very ... Ooh, that's, that's weird.

    19. CW

      Yeah, it is.

    20. MM

      Yeah.

    21. CW

      Do you know what the most popular type of porn is in India for men?

    22. MM

      Um, for men India? It's not fucking cows, is it?

    23. CW

      No.

    24. MM

      Am, am I allowed to say that?

    25. CW

      No. (laughs) Well, I mean, are you allowed to say that? You are allowed to say it on the podcast. I don't know how you, how much you are supposed to say it. That's, uh, that's a-

    26. MM

      Um, let me guess, of India. My friends, my, one of my closest friends is Indian.

    27. CW

      Yep.

    28. MM

      So just to mess with him, I'm going to say man boy.

    29. CW

      No.

    30. MM

      What, what is it?

  7. 12:21 – 18:49

    From niche porn stats to fitness-status dating: what ‘attractiveness’ changes socially

    1. MM

      I mean, I'm, I'm a fan of the breast. Wait, let me ask you. Now let's talk about this, 'cause this is what I want to know, okay?

    2. CW

      Explain.

    3. MM

      I have friends who are very into fitness.

    4. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    5. MM

      Um, I have friends who are like TV models, they were on like Survivor or whatever. So your job is to be an official hunk, right? That's like your gig. And you can hand wave it away and be like, "Oh, poor little me," but that's your gig, right?

    6. CW

      Partly.

    7. MM

      Right. What's it, do you use like dating apps? Is your experience on these dating apps like being a girl, that you just get like thousands of hits?

    8. CW

      Um, matches are fairly consistent, but again, what we're talking about just then, they select for a very specific type of girl. Does that make sense?

    9. MM

      No. Explain it to me, please.

    10. CW

      Okay, so there is a very specific type of girl who will swipe right on a guy that l- that has the particular characteristics that I do, and my buddies that are the same. And I don't know, it's weird. It, it, dating isn't, dating isn't massively easy for me or any of the friends that I know that have come out of doing reality TV and, and do the whole Instagram game. I don't know anyone who has a really easy time of it.

    11. MM

      I, I heard that too, that it's easy to get laid but it's hard to get a girlfriend, because the girlfriend that you want are gonna see those types floating around you and think you're not interested in her, and at the same time, it's easy for you to get laid, so maybe you're not as interested, and it's going to be kind of self-isolating and it's not as ... It looks a lot prettier on the outside than it is on the inside. Is that correct?

    12. CW

      T- to a degree. I think it depends on what you're looking for in a partner. So, you know, there'll be some of the guys listening, the girls that have been on reality TV, some of the stuff I've been on. And, um, like with them, some of them want someone else that is in that bracket.

    13. MM

      Okay.

    14. CW

      And for them, it's like, it's fantastic. It's kinda like inbreeding, but within-

    15. MM

      Sure.

    16. CW

      ... within particular social circles. But for me, I'm like, "Fuck, man." Like I've done, and I'm 31, I've served my time with the dolly birds. So for me, I want to, I want to try and find ... But if you go headline title is guy who used to be on Love Island and, uh, Blue Tick and Arsehole, like that's what you see. So when I'm, when I'm actually wanting to talk to them about the guy that's the data scientist that works out whether or not you're sleeping in two locations, that goes completely over their head. And to find the girl who is interested in that is actually really challenging.

    17. MM

      Yeah, 'cause she's gonna be put off because she's gonna think you're an asshole. Or, or, or, or a complete two-dimensional.

    18. CW

      Correct.

    19. MM

      My, my other friend, when he got very fit, what he said, and I wonder if this has been your experience, like when he would go to the bars, the girls who he would want, who were like maybe eights, because they've got a great personality, they're prettier than average but they're not, uh, like at that level where it gets annoying, um, they are put off. And the ones who are very, very forward and aggressive, like grabbing his genitals, are like the really unattractive ones who just go up to him and like treat him like meat. Is that your experience?

    20. CW

      They're also the ones with daddy issues.

    21. MM

      Okay.

    22. CW

      The ones that come up and do that are the, the ones who are the real sort of freaks when you-

    23. MM

      And that, but that happens?

    24. CW

      Sometimes.

    25. MM

      Okay.

    26. CW

      I mean, it's still, it takes a very, very ballsy girl to come and do that. Like, to, to be the, the forward-thinker. I'm speaking to Heather Berlin, who's an evolutionary psychologist, at the end of the week, and I've been reading up a little bit about it, and it is like there is no, essentially no species in the world where the woman is the sexual protagonist. And the same goes for, it takes such a brave girl to come and do that.

    27. MM

      Do you get m- men being openly hostile to you when they meet you?

    28. CW

      No.

    29. MM

      Or like they're not, they're not like giving you the eye?

    30. CW

      No. I think there's guys who are significantly more alpha than I am, and they might, they might do it with them. Um, but my livelihood the last 13 years has been standing on the front door of night clubs, so I've seen a million people walk past me in night clubs, 'cause that's what I do, I fill clubs. And, um, it's meant that, I don't know, my demeanor of just kind of being accepting and normalizing of just humans in a n- in a kind of an environment, normal social environment, I think seems to kinda quell that pretty quickly.

  8. 18:49 – 21:10

    Flamin’ Hot Cheetos origin story & the ‘American supermarket’ spectacle

    1. CW

      So Flamin' Hot Cheetos, do you know who invented them?

    2. MM

      No.

    3. CW

      So Richard Montanez, who was-

    4. MM

      Okay.

    5. CW

      ... a cleaner at the Frito-Lay factory.

    6. MM

      Oh.

    7. CW

      So the, um, he's now the VP of Multicultural Sales for PepsiCo America.

    8. MM

      Okay.

    9. CW

      The guy couldn't read or write when he was the janitor.

    10. MM

      Oh.

    11. CW

      Um, and while he was there, Roger Enrico, who was like the CEO of, uh, uh, Frito-Lay had encouraged all of the workers to act like an owner.

    12. MM

      Okay.

    13. CW

      That's what he said, he'd given this big, you know, one of those like end of year announcement speech type things Buffett and, and people like that give them all the time. And um, then this guy, this, this Richard Montanez guy had decided that there wasn't any Cheetos for the Mexican market, 'cause Mexicans love spice. And he just started like fucking around with some Cheetos and made Flamin' Hot Cheetos, and now he's the VP of Multicultural Sales-

    14. MM

      Ha.

    15. CW

      ... for PepsiCo.

    16. MM

      I, I, I think I was more of a cheese... D- I've always been a Cheez Doodles guy myself.

    17. CW

      You see in America, you guys just have the absolute like laundry list of, of every different type of confectionary and, and savory item.

    18. MM

      How, h- I'm sorry, how many types of Walkers crisps are there, like 60?

    19. CW

      (laughs) Yeah, okay, that's fair.

    20. MM

      Prawn cocktail, hedgehog-

    21. CW

      (laughs)

    22. MM

      ... mint lamb, tik- chicken tikka masala. What are you talking about? You, w- we could play this game.

    23. CW

      Okay, yeah, you are right. America though, I mean, sometimes when I go over, I don't know whether it's just novelty, but when I do go to America, I'm just blown away, like some of the things that, th- like the breakfast cereals is one thing, like America does breakfast cereals so good. I'm super, super impressed by that.

    24. MM

      If you go to... For the, for the people across the pond who go to the... Whenever I go to anywhere I travel, I go to the supermarket 'cause I love seeing-

    25. CW

      Yeah.

    26. MM

      ... all the wacky brands.

    27. CW

      Yeah.

    28. MM

      Um, if you come to America, and you go down the cereal aisle, every cereal box that's for kids, the character looks like they're on cocaine.

    29. CW

      (laughs)

    30. MM

      'Cause they're all like really excited, and their teeth are showing. And you look at it, I'm like, "These, this leprechaun is g- like, is cranked up."

  9. 21:10 – 22:48

    Baijiu: the world’s top spirit, and Malice’s ‘Arduous March’ of bizarre liquors

    1. CW

      Right, next up, what do you think is the world's most popular spirit by volume sold?

    2. MM

      Oh, it's, it's, uh, Moutai from China.

    3. CW

      Baijiu.

    4. MM

      Baijiu, sorry, yeah.

    5. CW

      Baijiu from China. So the next closest.

    6. MM

      It tastes like... It tastes like gasoline.

    7. CW

      Have you had it?

    8. MM

      Eh... So I did something called the Arduous March. So two, I did this twice. I had fans chip in money, and we bought, uh, we did this once with 32 bottles and once with 40 bottles. And me and my crew did a quarter shot to see if we can get through all of these-

    9. CW

      Oh, you spoke about this on Rogan. Yeah, I remember.

    10. MM

      Yeah, yeah. And it was all these weird liquors. Um, the weirder the better. And one of them, out of the 32, the, the, it was Moutai, I guess it's a type of Baijiu-

    11. CW

      Yeah.

    12. MM

      ... was by far the worst. Nothing was even close to as bad.

    13. CW

      What's it taste like?

    14. MM

      It was horrific. It was a mix of like soy sauce and like rotten-

    15. CW

      (laughs) What's it like, just straight off the bat, it's so racist. (laughs)

    16. MM

      Well, uh, yeah, it, but it does, it has that salty, like metallic taste.

    17. CW

      Got you. Yep, yep.

    18. MM

      And then like meat, it was, it, and, and it, and it, it tasted like maybe some kind of cleanser. It was horrifying. And the, it keeps, the, the taste stays with you, you know, in your mouth. And I think how it works is they do shots all night and get like really w- whatever the word for plastered is in Newcastle.

    19. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    20. MM

      Um, and after a while, you don't taste anything I think is how it works, is it kills your taste buds.

    21. CW

      Burns the sensation away.

    22. MM

      Yeah, yeah.

    23. CW

      Fuck.

    24. MM

      Yeah, it's really bad.

    25. CW

      10 billion liters a year.

    26. MM

      And some cost like $300 a, a bottle. It gets really expensive.

    27. CW

      (sighs) Vodka, five billion liters a year. Baijiu, 10 billion liters a year.

    28. MM

      Yeah.

  10. 22:48 – 25:26

    Drunk shopping economics and the brutal honesty of ‘booty-call tier lists’

    1. CW

      Shit, man. Right, next up, drunk shopping is a $45 billion per year industry.

    2. MM

      Okay.

    3. CW

      Where do you drunk shop? You ever drunk shopped?

    4. MM

      I don't really drink 'cause I get meaner when I drink. Um-

    5. CW

      Mean- meaner than usual?

    6. MM

      Yeah.

    7. CW

      Oh, God.

    8. MM

      Um-

    9. CW

      And then does someone need to take your Twitter off you?

    10. MM

      Take me what?

    11. CW

      Take your Twitter off you?

    12. MM

      No, no, I meant in person.

    13. CW

      Oh, okay. Right, got you.

    14. MM

      Yeah, I'm Russian, so we are very good at being cruel. And I'm also funny, so then the next day, I feel guilty when I say s- really nasty things-

    15. CW

      And your surname-

    16. MM

      ... which are funny the most.

    17. CW

      ... your surname is Malice.

    18. MM

      Yeah, Malice by name, malice by nature, as Roger Hargreaves would say. Um, uh, I have never done drunk shopping.

    19. CW

      Oh.

    20. MM

      I don't think I have.

    21. CW

      Apparent-

    22. MM

      Like, uh, online?

    23. CW

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. So apparently 444 pounds is the average annual spend of a drunk shopper. Clothing and shoes most common purchase, and Amazon is the most highly drunk shopped platform.

    24. MM

      Okay, if I'm drunk, and I get home, I'm going to bed. I'm not going online. I'm not gonna go shop.

    25. CW

      Well, I suppose-

    26. MM

      Do you?

    27. CW

      No, no, I don't. I'm just thinking, I'm wondering if this is the married woman-

    28. MM

      ... yeah.

    29. CW

      Not, not gonna booty call. You know, it's not a, "You up?" 2:30 AM text that she's going to send to, like-

    30. MM

      Right.

  11. 25:26 – 27:58

    Emojis as legal evidence, personal emoji ‘tells,’ and the helicopter meme’s darker edge

    1. CW

      Right, so emojis are starting to appear in evidence in court cases.

    2. MM

      Okay.

    3. CW

      And, and lawyers are worried when emoji symbols are strung together, we don't have a reliable way of interpreting their meaning. (laughs)

    4. MM

      Okay. Yeah.

    5. CW

      In 2017, an Israeli judge had to decide if one emoji-filled message constituted a verbal contract. So this guy had replied about coming to inquire about a house, and he was trying to work out, like, if the monkey or chipmunk on the end was, uh, some sort of positive reinforcement that he actually meant that he was gonna, like, come and do something with this house.

    6. MM

      Um, my favorite series of emojis, Kurt Schlichter, he's a senior columnist at Town Hall, he goes after the Bill Kristol types Republicans. And what he invented was the fist, the eggplant, and then the squirting water. (laughs)

    7. CW

      It's a classic. It's an obv- it's a classic.

    8. MM

      It's just like, it's like a ... It's so much better than the finger.

    9. CW

      (laughs) Yeah.

    10. MM

      Yeah, it's really, really great.

    11. CW

      It's so visceral.

    12. MM

      So credit to Kurt for that. Yeah.

    13. CW

      Yeah. What d- you ... What's ... I'll tell you what, you can tell a lot from a man by what his most frequently used emojis are. Have you got your phone nearby? Can we see your most used emo-

    14. MM

      I, I don't use the ph- ... I don't do them on the phone, I do them on Twitter. I'll tell you what they are.

    15. CW

      Okay, cool.

    16. MM

      I, I know them off the top of my head.

    17. CW

      Cool.

    18. MM

      The blowing kiss one.

    19. CW

      Yeah.

    20. MM

      Because if someone sends me a nice tweet and I don't wanna write a long reply, I'll blow them a kiss.

    21. CW

      Yep.

    22. MM

      Or if I'm being a, uh, like nasty to somebody else-

    23. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    24. MM

      ... I'd be like, "Or maybe we'll ask your mom," blowing a kiss.

    25. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    26. MM

      The other one is if I'm being really, uh, snide and bitchy on Twitter, I'll do the nail polish one-

    27. CW

      (laughs) Queen.

    28. MM

      ... to signify this is me being bitchy.

    29. CW

      Yes.

    30. MM

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah. (laughs) Yes, queen, yeah, I've just got the nail polish. Um, or you know, if someone says something like, "Well, maybe not with that shirt on," you know, then the nail polish comes out. Um, and the other one I use is, although less frequently since Bolsonaro took over Brazil, is the helicopter emoji. So the helicopter emoji, and I talk about this in my book, is when Pinochet took over Chile in 1979, uh, in a military coup, he took a lot of communists and non-communists apparently, and ... in helicopters, and threw them in the ocean. So when you see someone on Twitter who's being particularly egregious, you just reply with the helicopter, and they won't know what it is, but everyone else will. But now that we've got a guy in Brazil who's kind of in that direction, and it's not that funny, uh, I've, I've used it much less.

  12. 27:58 – 33:53

    Fast fashion’s low quality ripple effects, Malice’s raw denim obsession, and random science tangents

    1. CW

      Okay. Uh, fast fashion-

    2. MM

      Okay.

    3. CW

      ... is wi- is wiping ... is hitting the wiping rags business. So-

    4. MM

      What's the wipe? Wiping rag? (laughs)

    5. CW

      Wiping rags. So there's billions of years, so about-

    6. MM

      What? Speak English, motherfucker. (laughs)

    7. CW

      Wiping rags. It, it's a rag for wiping, Michael.

    8. MM

      Okay. Yeah, okay.

    9. CW

      So 30% of textiles that are recovered for recycling in the US get used to wipe shit. Painters need to wipe up their splodges-

    10. MM

      Okay, like cloths.

    11. CW

      Wait, so it's, it-

    12. MM

      Are, are th- Are they paper towels or are they cloths?

    13. CW

      They're cloths.

    14. MM

      Okay.

    15. CW

      So it's, like, textile material, right?

    16. MM

      Okay.

    17. CW

      So you're, uh, an engineer who's gotta clean down some of the oil or whatever on a machinery, all this sort of stuff, and apparently fast fashion, so this, like, uh ... Dior guys have, like, PrettyLittleThing, and, and kind of ... I- imagine any dress that Kendall Jenner is on an af- affiliate deal for.

    18. MM

      Okay.

    19. CW

      It costs about $20 and, and every girl owns it once. It's like a disposable dress, right?

    20. MM

      Okay.

    21. CW

      Like a single-use dress or a single-use T-shirt. That's fast fashion and-

    22. MM

      Okay.

    23. CW

      ... this, this clothing quality is so low that it's annihilating the wiping rags business because they literally can't stand up to wiping shit.

    24. MM

      Okay.

    25. CW

      So it's such bad (laughs) it's such bad quality that once you've worn it-

    26. MM

      Yeah.

    27. CW

      ... when you try and wipe some paint off with it, it just falls to pieces.

    28. MM

      I'm the opposite. I am a big denim collector, right? I've got 30 pairs of jeans, and the trick with the raw denim is-

    29. CW

      Wow.

    30. MM

      Yeah. But you wear it for years, because it breaks down and you get the fades. You know what I mean? And it kinda adapts to your body, and ... You know what I mean? It ... Like, that's the fun of it, right?

  13. 33:53 – 37:43

    Spite funding: fans buying Malice bizarre collectibles (and why it works)

    1. CW

      It's crazy, man. I absolutely love thinking about that stuff. You've mentioned, there you've mentioned a couple of times buying stuff, random shit from the internet. What have you been-

    2. MM

      Yeah.

    3. CW

      ... spite funding recently, and can you, for the people who don't know what that is, can you explain what it is?

    4. MM

      So I had this idea once when someone came for me, um, on Twitter. I said, "It would be a real shame if people gave me money I don't, uh, uh, for something I didn't want, just to spite you." And the donations kept coming in. I have a bunch of stuff right here, I'll show you. Um, and I'm like, all right, so here. I have, this is a pen, you're not gonna be able to see it really, made out of fordite. Fordite is what happens in factories when after years of hand spray-painting, it makes layers and layers and layers, and it's kind of a synthetic mineral. So this is a pen made out of fordite. Um, this is another pen, this f- this is from a Corvette factory.

    5. CW

      That is cool.

    6. MM

      Then I have a pen stand made out of a walrus tusk. I did not need this, but they paid for it.

    7. CW

      (laughs)

    8. MM

      After a while, it gets harder and harder to find things to buy. This is a pen from South Africa made out of a warthog tusk.

    9. CW

      Oh, my God.

    10. MM

      I don't need seven pens. This pen is made out of-

    11. CW

      Do you write much? Do you ever write? Have you ever written anything?

    12. MM

      Well, I ... Not with my pens.

    13. CW

      (laughs)

    14. MM

      I'm an author. I use a computer. This one is made of wood from the DMZ between the Koreas. So that's pretty cool.

    15. CW

      That's cool. That's cool as fuck.

    16. MM

      What else do I have handy?

    17. CW

      Who ... So, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.

    18. MM

      Yeah, many-

    19. CW

      Who, who was got hold of that piece of wood?

    20. MM

      So the guy who made it, his, his friend was stationed in the South Korean part-

    21. CW

      Ah.

    22. MM

      ... and he just took a ) branch and sent it back to-

    23. CW

      Fuck me, that's a dangerous ...

    24. MM

      It's a ... Yeah, it's really fun, this spite funding thing. I just, um, I'm looking right now at a, a signed photo of Andy Kaufman, who's my hero-

    25. CW

      Yeah.

    26. MM

      ... uh, hanged, fricking hanging above my, my head. So it's a really fun, uh, shtick to do.

    27. CW

      And what else-

    28. MM

      We're getting-

    29. CW

      Are you thinking about anything else at the moment, or is it just-

    30. MM

      Yeah.

  14. 37:43 – 40:26

    UK politics curios (Nigel Farage), protest culture, and why people get ‘triggered’ by clownish theatrics

    1. CW

      Yeah, it is. Uh, what else have we got? Oh, no babies, uh, born in Britain in 2016 were called Nigel. You know that?

    2. MM

      Oh. I love him and I'm in love with him.

    3. CW

      I have a few friends that are called Nigel, they're a dying breed.

    4. MM

      He is, I met him at, um, the studio once, and I go to him, uh, "Mr. Farage, uh, what do you think of Enoch Powell?" And he goes, "He's an interesting man. Very interesting." And I'm like, "All right. I got you." (laughs)

    5. CW

      Well, that's what Russell Brand called him, didn't he? He called him the pound shop Enoch Powell.

    6. MM

      Did he?

    7. CW

      Yeah, Russell Brand-

    8. MM

      Okay.

    9. CW

      ... referred to him, I think on Question Time as they sat on the same panel. He was, like, five yards away from him and said, "He's the pound shop Enoch Powell."

    10. MM

      Do people in the UK not appreciate the savagery when he goes to the European Parliament and basically takes a shit on the desk?

    11. CW

      I think British people have a very unique sense of humor.

    12. MM

      Sure.

    13. CW

      And, and I actually don't think that they find what Farage does as funny as what Farage does is.

    14. MM

      Okay.

    15. CW

      Does that make sense? Like-

    16. MM

      Yeah, because when, to me, I, that, I don't know how many people saw it, like, when Brexit finally happened and he gave his little speech and they all ga- got up and started waving their little Union Jacks, it was so, so stupid, and so, so funny, and then the lady at the front of the room was like, "Sit down and get rid of your flags!"

    17. CW

      (laughs)

    18. MM

      And he's like, "Don't worry, we're leaving." And I'm like, "This is hilarious," and I, it's not meant to be taken seriously at all, it's clearly clownish intentionally, and I, I don't, I, I, uh, people here in, in the States get very, very upset by Trump tweets-

    19. CW

      Mm.

    20. MM

      ... when they're the stupidest thing ever.

    21. CW

      Mm.

    22. MM

      And I'm like, "How are you giving this the power to, yeah, I get it's the president, but this, in, of all the things he's done, this is the one that gets you upset that he's, you know, making fun of this person?" I mean, how are you, how are you, how do you have this much energy to be this triggered after this much time?

    23. CW

      Man, I, this is what I replied to you on Twitter yesterday, you, you retweeted a video of some people protesting outside of the White House, uh, ringing bells, and, and shouting-

    24. MM

      Yeah.

    25. CW

      ... shame.

    26. MM

      Yeah.

    27. CW

      And th- the first thought into my mind was, "I don't understand how these people have so much time."

    28. MM

      Right.

    29. CW

      I, I, I dream of having that much spare time that I could go and do that. I need to manage my schedule more efficiently or get them to do it.

    30. MM

      Th- they need to be doing more drunk shopping. (laughs)

  15. 40:26 – 46:47

    2020 election crystal ball: Bernie vs the DNC, Biden’s decline, and Trump’s advantage

    1. MM

      Right.

    2. CW

      ... because it, it was used as part of content. Let's talk, I mean, you know, this year, 2020, all that's gonna happen is election shit, right? Like, it's, that's all that's going on. How do you see the rest of this year playing out? What's gonna happen?

    3. MM

      I, well, tonight as, uh, as we record is the Iowa Prime Caucuses, which is the first voting in the Democratic nomination, and over the last week it's become full-blown warfare between the establishment and the Bernie Sanders people, which I absolutely love any kind of political carnage. Um, depending on what happens tonight, it looks like it's gonna get very, very, very ugly, very, very, very quickly. Bernie has already been launching ads explicitly attacking the Democratic Party, which I think is historically unprecedented. He says, the ad's like, "We make Trump nervous, we make the insurance companies nervous, we make the Democratic establishment nervous." I don't think that's real- even Trump never really went after the, quote unquote, Republican establishment.

    4. CW

      Yeah.

    5. MM

      So if he ... and he's surging. So if that is validated, uh, by a win, uh, I don't know what, they're already talking, the DNC, the Democratic National Committee, what they can do to stop this guy, so it might get even more public and even more brazen. Now, you might not have seen this across the pond, but, you know, Elizabeth Warren said he said to her that a woman can't get elected president. They tried to play it off like he's saying a woman shouldn't get elected president. And on MSNBC, one of our networks, which is failing badly, uh, Joy-Ann Reid had a body language expert to prove that Bernie was lying. I mean, this is, uh, like basically like tea leaves. I- it was, so to, to be that brazen, and I'm hardly a Bernie person, um, is gonna be great. We're gonna see unprecedented machinations, um, on both sides of the, of the Democratic Party to s- and, but you, you're having the same thing. You have the real life Titania McGrath, Rebecca Long Bailey about to take over for Jeremy Corbyn, and she's saying that inequality keeps her up at night.It's, like, get some rest, bitch. Calm down.

    6. CW

      Yeah. I mean, the, what is going to happen in the UK, uh ... The thing about the UK is, politics is so short-lived for us. Like, in America, ever since 2016, all that anyone in America's wanted to talk about is how did Trump get elected. Then there's, like, The Great Hack on Netflix, which was that documentary about how the Cambridge Analytica scandal. Then there's, like, all this Ukraine stuff, then there's impeachment stuff, then there's-

    7. MM

      Like-

    8. CW

      ... Russian hacking and Russian bot farms and da- And it's just been four years constantly of, like-

    9. MM

      Right.

    10. CW

      ... post hoc rationalizing what the fuck happened, right? And-

    11. MM

      Yes.

    12. CW

      ... with the UK, as soon as ... So on the couple of weeks leading up to the election, there was all rousing ... people with roses in their bio, and, and, and for the many, not the few, and all this stuff.

    13. MM

      Yeah, yeah.

    14. CW

      Two weeks later, it's all forgotten. Two weeks later Love Island's on or sele- I'm A Celebrity... Get Me Out Of Here! is on, on ITV on, on the TV channel. So they're just calling someone a fat bitch on TV. That's all, that's all that happens.

    15. MM

      What was your reaction when you saw Diane Abbott wearing two left shoes-

    16. CW

      Two left shoe- (laughs)

    17. MM

      ... and, and the different ones? I mean, uh, that ha- I actually love her. Like, I love her a lot because here's what, uh ... People make fun of her. We have people like Diane Abbott here. The thing where I think I really respect her is she knows how to stick to, uh, the message, right? She was on with Piers Morgan and he's like, "What's Labour's plan for immigration?" And she's like, "Piers, the Tories don't ... It's not working and it's disaster." He's like, "Okay, fine, what's your plan?" "I've told you, Piers-

    18. CW

      (laughs)

    19. MM

      ... the Tories ..." And I'm sitting there and I'm like, I respect a politician who's getting punched in the face-

    20. CW

      (laughs)

    21. MM

      ... and is not reacting. That takes skill, and that takes fortitude. I'm not being ironic or sarcastic.

    22. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    23. MM

      'Cause here they get flustered, they, they freak out. So she's disciplined, so it's a, I, I, I find her very, very interesting.

    24. CW

      When you see that single-mindedness ... So we saw it on election night, as soon as the exit polls happened, someone somewhere in the Labour Party had trickled down, "Call it a Brexit issue. Call it a Brexit, um, vote." And that was all you heard from the first-

    25. MM

      Yeah, yeah.

    26. CW

      ... guy that came out. And then I can't remember who it was, one of the, um, panel pundits on the side of the BBC had managed to get a leaked, uh, message memorandum type thing that had gone around which was like, "Right, this is the party line." And he was (laughs) reading through this leaked thing on air, and just saying-

    27. MM

      Wow.

    28. CW

      ... and just saying like, "Yeah, they're just saying just focus on Brexit, call it a Brexit issue," 'cause then the, the, the finger's kind of not really pointed at the fact that we didn't have any good policies.

    29. MM

      Yeah, and then Brexit's going to be resolved, so now we're gonna have a clean slate next time.

    30. CW

      Yeah. Which I don't think's gonna change anything, either. Okay, so we've got that with, with Bernie moving forward. Have you got ... Do you put your money where your mouth is with stuff for what's gonna happen later this year, or are you not, do you not do that this far out?

  16. 46:47 – 59:34

    Cutting for abs: diet brain, motivation, macros, and practical refeed strategy (plus closing tangents)

    1. MM

      So wait, let me ask you this, Mr. Fitness Guy. How do you stay motivated on a cut? And how do you psychologically handle losing the strength?

    2. CW

      Um-

    3. MM

      Those mind games are the toughest part-

    4. CW

      Okay.

    5. MM

      ... 'cause I was at the gym last week and my lifts are all down, and it's like, "What's the point?" Blah, blah, bl- You know, it, the brain f- fucks with itself.

    6. CW

      Mm-hmm. So the problem you've got when you're training for aesthetics and not performance-

    7. MM

      Yeah.

    8. CW

      ... is that your progress in the mirror is always going to be subjective, not objective.

    9. MM

      Right.

    10. CW

      So if you were s- training purely for strength, you would know, "Last week I lifted X, this week I lifted X plus five." Good. Whereas you could wake up 2% leaner than you were a month ago but be in a shit head space, look at yourself in the mirror and go, "I look fucking shit. I really don't like th- this." Or, "I'm not ..." Whatever. "Scales are lying," whatever it might be. So I think-

    11. MM

      But isn't also, let me interrupt you, I'm sorry. It's also when you have hunger and you have the calorie depletion, your brain is also going to tell you negative things. It's, you're not in a positive place like when you're stuffing your face and you have all the carbs and endorphins.

    12. CW

      Right, diet brain. So it's-

    13. MM

      Yeah.

    14. CW

      ... when you're, when you're on a diet, all you can think about is the next bit of food.

    15. MM

      Right.

    16. CW

      Like, "I just want more," uh, and it's the same thing ... I was talking to Morgan Housel. You know who Morgan is?

    17. MM

      No.

    18. CW

      Wrote for, um, a big, big sort of Wall Street advisor and, and personal finance guy. And it, we were talking about debt brain. It's like if you're in debt, like severely in debt, and you don't know where the next meal or the next payment on the credit card's coming from-

    19. MM

      Yeah.

    20. CW

      ... it's precisely the same as diet brain. So in terms of how you can kind of keep motivation up, it's challenging, man. Like, a diet will turn anyone crazy. I have a friend-

    21. MM

      Well I say, I say regimen. Girls have diets, men have regimens, and it has the word men in it.

    22. CW

      Correct. Nice, nice.

    23. MM

      Ready?

    24. CW

      Um, regi-m-x-n.

    25. MM

      (laughs) Yeah, there you go.

    26. CW

      (laughs) Yeah, it's cha- it's challenging, man. So the best thing that I can say is just to kind of stick to the process. Like if you just continue to stick to whatever the plan is that's in front of you, ensure that you're having a refeed day, refeeding when you... So you're on a calorie deficit and then you're having one day that's high.

    27. MM

      Yep. No, I should start doing that.

    28. CW

      I think so. As long as you don't have such a high day that it bumps your total weekly calories then over into a surplus. But let's say that, let's say that you're on... Are you tracking calories?

    29. MM

      I do macros.

    30. CW

      Yeah. Yeah. So do you know what your... Do you know what your macros are?

Episode duration: 59:33

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