Dating, Cheetos, Liquor, Biden, Bernie & Fitness | Michael Malice | Modern Wisdom Podcast 140

Michael Malice 0:00 So angry old man Biden is this kind of bubbling understory that I really need to see a lot more of and my dream is that he gets the nomination and he gets, let's say, physically incapacitated some ... God forbid, and then the party steals it and gives it to Hillary.

Chris Williamson 0:16 (laughs)

Michael Malice 0:16 Which would, is not an impossibility at all and I would desperately love that to happen. I wanna see her lose three times.

Chris Williamson 0:22 (laughs)

Michael Malice 0:22 It's like, uh, any mummy, any mummy movie you're gonna have a trilogy, right?

Chris Williamson 0:26 Yeah, okay, yeah.

Michael Malice 0:26 We need the mummy to come back for the third time and get her final defeat.

Chris Williamson 0:29 Where does Dwayne Johnson fit into this 'cause he must have to-

Michael Malice 0:31 The Rock? (laughs)

Chris Williamson 0:33 Yeah. (laughs)

Michael Malice 0:34 He said he's gonna run.

Chris Williamson 0:35 Is that what, is that what's happening? I'd vote for The Rock.

Michael Malice 0:37 I think 2024 maybe, yeah.

Chris Williamson 0:38 Yeah, I'd vote for The Rock. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. Michael Malice in the building. Woo.

Michael Malice 0:48 That's true.

Chris Williamson 0:49 There he is.

Michael Malice 0:50 Hi.

Chris Williamson 0:51 How are you?

Michael Malice 0:52 I'm great.

Chris Williamson 0:52 Fantastic. What's been happening in ... Actually, no, first off, Dave Rubin got you in a full ensemble and I go, I get you in a T-shirt. What's happening?

Michael Malice 1:03 Uh, yeah, well, you also, this is Skype. You wanna, if you want, when you get a studio and not a bedroom, then I'll dress appropriately.

Chris Williamson 1:09 Okay.

Michael Malice 1:09 I'm in my pajamas, see?

Chris Williamson 1:11 Those are nice.

Michael Malice 1:13 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:13 That's a nice check on the bottom, the bottom half.

Michael Malice 1:15 Thank you.

Chris Williamson 1:16 You look cool.

Michael Malice 1:16 And I've got some nice farm socks for no reason.

Chris Williamson 1:19 (laughs)

Michael Malice 1:20 So you're from Newcastle?

Chris Williamson 1:21 Correct.

Michael Malice 1:22 Do ... I'm gonna impress you and make you uncomfortable.

Chris Williamson 1:25 Hit me.

Michael Malice 1:26 The one thing I know about Newcastle which no other American knows is Mary Bell.

Chris Williamson 1:32 I don't know that. What's that?

Michael Malice 1:34 Mary Bell was 10 or 11 and she was the youngest person convicted of murder in Britain. She killed two toddlers. And then she went to their house and she's like, "I wanna see Billy," and they're like, "He's dead, love," and she's like, "I wanna see him in his coffin," and they sentenced her to jail at age 11. She's from Newcastle, she's a Geordie. You didn't know this?

Chris Williamson 1:53 That is the most harrowing story that I've ever heard.

Michael Malice 1:56 Yeah, and they left, like, notes, like, "Oh, there's murderers around," like a little kid handwriting. Yeah, you didn't know about this?

Chris Williamson 2:02 No, not at all.

Michael Malice 2:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah. The book's called Cries Unheard.

Chris Williamson 2:05 Fuck me. What a way to start ... Michael, come on.

Michael Malice 2:08 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:08 What's the ... I've got, I've got stories about flaming Cheetos and stuff and you're talking about, like, child murder.

Michael Malice 2:14 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:14 Child and child crime.

Michael Malice 2:16 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:17 Wow. Come on then, what's-

Michael Malice 2:18 That's how I first, well, I heard ... Th- the other thing is that's how I learned about, that Newcastle is a thing, other than the beer which I adore.

Chris Williamson 2:24 Mm-hmm.

Michael Malice 2:24 But also the thing they discussed in the book, which you're gonna have to do for me-

Chris Williamson 2:28 Ooh.

Michael Malice 2:28 ... is they talked, they said the Geordie accent is, like, the most unique accent in all of Britain.

Chris Williamson 2:34 Probably not too far off correct, yeah. So when you get really, really thick, it's, it's essentially another language. You gotta remember-

Michael Malice 2:41 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:41 ... we're right next to Scotland. We are-

Michael Malice 2:43 Right, which is close.

Chris Williamson 2:44 ... as close ... Yeah, which genuinely is another language.

Michael Malice 2:47 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:47 Um, so yeah, there's, there's some people, if you were to, if I was to roll you out into the streets of, of Newcastle and just get you to try and translate, I think you, I think you might have a bad time.

Michael Malice 2:56 Yeah, or a fun time, yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:58 Or a fun time. So come on-

Michael Malice 2:59 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:59 ... tell me what's been happening in your world at the moment?

Michael Malice 3:02 Um, I, I don't know. I just, I, I have my shows, uh, my, my, I mean, my book's out last May, um, I, I, I'm just, uh, like, you know, being a jackass on Twitter, um, and just, I don't know, having a great 2020. Are you're having a good 2020 so far?

Chris Williamson 3:17 2020's been sick. I've got a question for you. What is your favorite meme of 2020 so far?

Michael Malice 3:24 I'm, uh, of 2020, it's been short.

Chris Williamson 3:27 You're not thinking there's been much good stuff out? I haven't seen much good stuff.

Michael Malice 3:29 I, I, I am blanking. Uh, have there been any good memes so far this year?

Chris Williamson 3:34 It depends.

Michael Malice 3:35 What are some suggestions?

Chris Williamson 3:36 I don't ... It depends on what you class ... I mean, this, um, standing on a box, this Bloomberg box thing, I don't know if that classes-

Michael Malice 3:41 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 3:42 ... as a meme, but oh my God, like, that is just ...

Michael Malice 3:45 It's, I don't know, I've, I've seen better.

Chris Williamson 3:47 You don't like that one?

Michael Malice 3:48 No, I, I, I mean, I'm, I'm f- I'm a m- I'm a munchkin myself and there's so much worse things to hate him over.

Chris Williamson 3:55 Okay, got you.

Michael Malice 3:56 I think when you do the body shaming stuff, it's weak.

Chris Williamson 3:59 Mm.

Michael Malice 3:59 Because, like, when they say-

Chris Williamson 4:00 Bro-bro.

Michael Malice 4:00 ... Trump ... Can I, can I curse on this show?

Chris Williamson 4:02 Fire away, man.

Michael Malice 4:03 So when they talk about, like, how Trump has a small dick, it's like, "Okay." Like, "Wh- where you going with this?" You know?

Chris Williamson 4:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand. I get that. Uh-

Michael Malice 4:11 That's not the problem with Bloomberg. The problem is he's, like, a, you know, a crazy person.

Chris Williamson 4:17 (laughs)

Michael Malice 4:18 He was our mayor. I'm, I'm from Brooklyn, you know, I remember his, uh, mayorship.

Chris Williamson 4:22 Mm-hmm. What was that like?

Michael Malice 4:24 It wasn't that bad, but you knew if you scratched the surface, this person is dangerous.

Chris Williamson 4:30 How so?

Michael Malice 4:30 'Cause he was very much a, "I'm going to manage every aspect of your life for your own good." You know, he was trying to ha- think of plans about how to have Manhattan not have any cars, to force everyone into public transport. He was ... I, I think you guys have that in London where, like, uh, the f- tolls on bridges change depending what time of day you use. So, like, everything is just kind of engineered from the top-

Chris Williamson 4:53 Mm.

Michael Malice 4:53 ... very kind of benevolent Brave New World kinda situation. Um, so yeah, I'm not a, I'm not a particular, uh, um, fan of his.

Chris Williamson 5:01 You got this dystopian future with Bloomberg at the head of it.

Michael Malice 5:06 If he got in power, yeah.

Chris Williamson 5:07 (laughs)

Michael Malice 5:07 I mean, 'cause he's got a lot of ideas and when people in government have ideas, that's when things get dangerous.

Chris Williamson 5:11 When they have that power as well.

Michael Malice 5:13 Yeah, correct, yeah.

Chris Williamson 5:14 So have you heard of WallStreetBets on Reddit? Do you know what this is?

Michael Malice 5:19 I've not, no.

Chris Williamson 5:19 Oh, man. This is precisely your sort of thing. So I basically, I have absolutely no structure to today, but I've just got a load of individual facts that we can, that we, we can talk about and we can go through. And WallStreetBets is something I got introduced to recently, so it's a, a subreddit, and on here people make the most insane trades.

Michael Malice 5:39 Okay.

Chris Williamson 5:39 Like, just someone who will remortgage their entire house and put it on Apple's stock going down by 5% by Thursday at 12:00 midday-

Michael Malice 5:48 Oh, Jesus, okay.

Chris Williamson 5:48 ... and just, like, literally leverage their entire life purely for internet points from strangers that they've never met.

Michael Malice 5:56 Wow.

Chris Williamson 5:56 I-

Michael Malice 5:56 That does not seem normal.

Chris Williamson 5:58 N- No, but it is very fun. And if you just-

Michael Malice 6:00 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 6:00 ... have a look, there's something called the Dankest Wall Street Bet Trades, which is like- (laughs)

Michael Malice 6:05 (laughs) I do like...

Chris Williamson 6:07 ... which is like a mo- a quarterly roundup on YouTube (laughs) that's, like, commentated, and it's all of the dankest bets that someone's made. And, like, some of them are really good, like someone who makes, like, 200 grand in a couple of days, but most of them are just people blowing their whole life savings, like taking money out of their wife's account to, like ... And they remortgage the house and do everything, student loans in there as well. And then yeah, it, everything goes out the window. You, you need to check it out.

Michael Malice 6:33 Oh, that ... Okay, that sounds very disturbing.

Chris Williamson 6:35 (coughs) A little bit. Not as disturbing as a child killing another child, though, Mi- Michael, so.

Michael Malice 6:39 You should read the notes. I can't even repeat them, the language in them.

Chris Williamson 6:42 Oh my God.

Michael Malice 6:43 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 6:44 Right, okay. I've got another thing to talk about actually-

Michael Malice 6:46 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 6:46 ... 'cause you're, you're super expert on North Korea, right? But we're not hear-

Michael Malice 6:49 Yeah, it's true.

Chris Williamson 6:49 We're not hearing anything about it at the moment. It's all China. China.

Michael Malice 6:53 China, yeah.

Chris Williamson 6:53 We're all worried about China.

Michael Malice 6:54 It makes me sad, um, because for a little window there ... You know, I went there, I wrote a book about it, Dear Reader. The, I mean, this has been my work for a few years, like kind of s- proselytizing, you know, b- on behalf of these people who are all slaves, um, and trying to shift the focus from the dictatorship to, you know, the, the, the population there. And i- i- and it was very disturbing to see the subtext much more in the States than in ... You know, I was on the BBC, you know, doing talks on this, but this is much more in the States where the focus here is so much that Trump is the devil, it almost sounds like you're wanting this to fail. Whereas, you know, you should very much be hoping that, fine, he's the devil, but let's hope this devil pulls out a win on behalf of these, you know, people who've been a slave for 70 years. Uh, and now that it's completely fallen by the wayside, it's very, very discouraging. Um, it's clearly not as much of a priority for the president, um, and the media. And, uh, while that happens, the people ... You know, the, the ... Once you go there, everyone I've met is still there. You know, I see s- my guide on Instagram. She's a m- very wealthy by North Korean standards. She knows she's in a prison. She knows she can never leave. If she leaves, her p- family will be murdered publicly to make an example. That's how they do it. So it's, it's very, very disheartening, um, that it has kind of fallen by the wayside. And it's also disturbing that China is going in a North Korean direction. Uh, North Korean has some, North Korea has something called Songbun. Um, and in the '50s, they interviewed everyone in the country, literally everybody, and they figured out how reliable your family is vis-a-vis the government, and they slotted everyone's, like, a credit score into three classes.

Chris Williamson 8:32 (laughs)

Michael Malice 8:32 Uh, hostile, wavering or loyal, and this determines everything about your life, including what city you live in, whether you can go to college, you know, who you marry and things like that. And now China is talking about doing this kind of social credit system, which will determine whether you can, like, leave the country. It's, it's very, very discouraging. Although the Hong Kong stuff is a, a, a little ray of hope.

Chris Williamson 8:53 Yeah. I was talking to a data scientist a couple of weeks ago, and he was saying that because we have GDPR in the UK, you guys in America don't really have that, but you have some data protection laws and China is just, like, complete Wild West. Like, you can-

Michael Malice 9:09 Oh, yeah.

Chris Williamson 9:10 There is no, there is no limit to what people can do. So here's one. Um, insurance companies are using people's GPS data on their phone, and if they find out that you are sleeping consistently in two different locations, that is strongly affecting your credit score. And the reason is if you're consistently sleeping in two different locations, it means that you are likely to be in a relationship. If you're in a relationship, you'll get engaged. If you get engaged, you'll get married. And if you get married, you'll probably get divorced, which means that you're a credit risk.

Michael Malice 9:43 But isn't it also if you're in two places, you're more likely to get in a car accident?

Chris Williamson 9:47 Maybe that as well.

Michael Malice 9:48 Yeah, 'cause you're traveling more? Or-

Chris Williamson 9:49 They're also, they're also using the speed at which people fill in their details on insurance forms to affect the amount they pay for insurance.

Michael Malice 10:00 Really?

Chris Williamson 10:00 So if you fill ... They have a t- like a, the, the, uh, scraping the data about how much time it takes someone to fill in, and if it takes X amount of time, then this happens, and if it takes X plus two, then this happens, and X plus three, then this happens.

Michael Malice 10:16 Yeah, but there's a lot of research behind this. This is not based on nothing. You know, like actuaries, you know, i- i- it's amazing how quantifiable I think most human behavior is. Most human beings aren't really capable of, you know, critical thought or original be- action. So we don't know where this is based on, but I don't think it's tea leaves.

Chris Williamson 10:34 No, not at all. It's absolutely ... So the guy that I was speaking to was like, "Look, all that they've done is modeled two different things."

Michael Malice 10:39 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 10:39 The AI, the AI that they've got that's working behind this isn't malevolent or, like, nefarious. It's not going, "I'm gonna pick out the old people," or, "I'm gonna pick out the people in relationships." It is that in the past, if someone has characteristic A-

Michael Malice 10:52 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 10:52 ... then B, and they're just modeling that. But the fact is that you can't hide the data. Like previously, your data about whether or not-

Michael Malice 10:59 Got it. Okay.

Chris Williamson 10:59 ... you are in a relationship or whether or not you are take a l- f- 10 minutes longer to fill in your Social Security number or whatever it might be, wouldn't have been publicly available or wouldn't have been used at least to effect-

Michael Malice 11:09 Oh, that's very crazy that it's public. That's really cr- ... Yeah, because it, I mean, I bet you, like, there's a correlation between people who watch Modern Family and, and a beverage that they drink, right? It's ... And some other shows, some other beverage. That's how data works. But it's, that's very ... Ooh, that's, that's weird.

Chris Williamson 11:23 Yeah, it is.

Michael Malice 11:24 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 11:24 Do you know what the most popular type of porn is in India for men?

Michael Malice 11:28 Um, for men India? It's not fucking cows, is it?

Chris Williamson 11:31 No.

Michael Malice 11:31 Am, am I allowed to say that?

Chris Williamson 11:33 No. (laughs) Well, I mean, are you allowed to say that? You are allowed to say it on the podcast. I don't know how you, how much you are supposed to say it. That's, uh, that's a-

Michael Malice 11:40 Um, let me guess, of India. My friends, my, one of my closest friends is Indian.

Chris Williamson 11:45 Yep.

Michael Malice 11:46 So just to mess with him, I'm going to say man boy.

Chris Williamson 11:50 No.

Michael Malice 11:51 What, what is it?

Chris Williamson 11:52 Breastfeeding.

Michael Malice 11:55 Oh, 'cause that's milk. They love milk.

Chris Williamson 11:57 ... is that a thing? I'm not sure if it's the milk. I don't think, I think it's-

Michael Malice 11:59 If you venerate the cow, you're going to venerate the milk.

Chris Williamson 12:02 Okay. Y- yeah? I don't-

Michael Malice 12:05 Maybe.

Chris Williamson 12:05 You've drawn, you've drawn that line. That might be it. I don't know why, I just know that it is, I just know that it is the most popular type of ?

Michael Malice 12:12 I've never heard of anyone getting turned on by that.

Chris Williamson 12:15 Me neither. But go to India, Michael, you will be amongst friends.

Michael Malice 12:20 I, and that's not my ...

Chris Williamson 12:21 (laughs)

Michael Malice 12:21 I mean, I'm, I'm a fan of the breast. Wait, let me ask you. Now let's talk about this, 'cause this is what I want to know, okay?

Chris Williamson 12:27 Explain.

Michael Malice 12:27 I have friends who are very into fitness.

Chris Williamson 12:30 Mm-hmm.

Michael Malice 12:30 Um, I have friends who are like TV models, they were on like Survivor or whatever. So your job is to be an official hunk, right? That's like your gig. And you can hand wave it away and be like, "Oh, poor little me," but that's your gig, right?

Chris Williamson 12:42 Partly.

Michael Malice 12:43 Right. What's it, do you use like dating apps? Is your experience on these dating apps like being a girl, that you just get like thousands of hits?

Chris Williamson 12:51 Um, matches are fairly consistent, but again, what we're talking about just then, they select for a very specific type of girl. Does that make sense?

Michael Malice 13:00 No. Explain it to me, please.

Chris Williamson 13:01 Okay, so there is a very specific type of girl who will swipe right on a guy that l- that has the particular characteristics that I do, and my buddies that are the same. And I don't know, it's weird. It, it, dating isn't, dating isn't massively easy for me or any of the friends that I know that have come out of doing reality TV and, and do the whole Instagram game. I don't know anyone who has a really easy time of it.

Michael Malice 13:25 I, I heard that too, that it's easy to get laid but it's hard to get a girlfriend, because the girlfriend that you want are gonna see those types floating around you and think you're not interested in her, and at the same time, it's easy for you to get laid, so maybe you're not as interested, and it's going to be kind of self-isolating and it's not as ... It looks a lot prettier on the outside than it is on the inside. Is that correct?

Chris Williamson 13:45 T- to a degree. I think it depends on what you're looking for in a partner. So, you know, there'll be some of the guys listening, the girls that have been on reality TV, some of the stuff I've been on. And, um, like with them, some of them want someone else that is in that bracket.

Michael Malice 13:59 Okay.

Chris Williamson 13:59 And for them, it's like, it's fantastic. It's kinda like inbreeding, but within-

Michael Malice 14:03 Sure.

Chris Williamson 14:03 ... within particular social circles. But for me, I'm like, "Fuck, man." Like I've done, and I'm 31, I've served my time with the dolly birds. So for me, I want to, I want to try and find ... But if you go headline title is guy who used to be on Love Island and, uh, Blue Tick and Arsehole, like that's what you see. So when I'm, when I'm actually wanting to talk to them about the guy that's the data scientist that works out whether or not you're sleeping in two locations, that goes completely over their head. And to find the girl who is interested in that is actually really challenging.

Michael Malice 14:35 Yeah, 'cause she's gonna be put off because she's gonna think you're an asshole. Or, or, or, or a complete two-dimensional.

Chris Williamson 14:40 Correct.

Michael Malice 14:40 My, my other friend, when he got very fit, what he said, and I wonder if this has been your experience, like when he would go to the bars, the girls who he would want, who were like maybe eights, because they've got a great personality, they're prettier than average but they're not, uh, like at that level where it gets annoying, um, they are put off. And the ones who are very, very forward and aggressive, like grabbing his genitals, are like the really unattractive ones who just go up to him and like treat him like meat. Is that your experience?

Chris Williamson 15:09 They're also the ones with daddy issues.

Michael Malice 15:11 Okay.

Chris Williamson 15:11 The ones that come up and do that are the, the ones who are the real sort of freaks when you-

Michael Malice 15:15 And that, but that happens?

Chris Williamson 15:17 Sometimes.

Michael Malice 15:17 Okay.

Chris Williamson 15:17 I mean, it's still, it takes a very, very ballsy girl to come and do that. Like, to, to be the, the forward-thinker. I'm speaking to Heather Berlin, who's an evolutionary psychologist, at the end of the week, and I've been reading up a little bit about it, and it is like there is no, essentially no species in the world where the woman is the sexual protagonist. And the same goes for, it takes such a brave girl to come and do that.

Michael Malice 15:40 Do you get m- men being openly hostile to you when they meet you?

Chris Williamson 15:45 No.

Michael Malice 15:45 Or like they're not, they're not like giving you the eye?

Chris Williamson 15:48 No. I think there's guys who are significantly more alpha than I am, and they might, they might do it with them. Um, but my livelihood the last 13 years has been standing on the front door of night clubs, so I've seen a million people walk past me in night clubs, 'cause that's what I do, I fill clubs. And, um, it's meant that, I don't know, my demeanor of just kind of being accepting and normalizing of just humans in a n- in a kind of an environment, normal social environment, I think seems to kinda quell that pretty quickly.

Michael Malice 16:16 Okay.

Chris Williamson 16:16 Um, so there's-

Michael Malice 16:16 It's interesting.

Chris Williamson 16:17 ... there's never any of that. I don't know. I mean, what, what was it like for you? Talk to me about your sort of dating.

Michael Malice 16:22 I'm not a hunk.

Chris Williamson 16:23 That's true. That's true.

Michael Malice 16:23 So I don't have to ... I, finally I got my abs in, so I, I feel comfortable talking about this stuff with you.

Chris Williamson 16:28 Yeah.

Michael Malice 16:28 But it's very interesting how people who are outliers physically-

Chris Williamson 16:33 Mm-hmm.

Michael Malice 16:34 ... what their experiences are and how different they are and how different from how people perceive them to be. Uh, like if you, uh, again, like I have a friend who's a model, and she's complaining ... There's two scenarios, right? One where she's complaining, "I can't find a dude." Well, that's 'cause you're a, a picky bitch. But then there's the one where, yeah, the kind of guy she would want would never think to approach her, 'cause he thinks that she would never be interested in him. And when you're at her level, she doesn't need to be dating a model dude-

Chris Williamson 17:03 Mm.

Michael Malice 17:03 ... because she's like, "I'm gonna be the pretty one. I'm fine. I want someone who can hold my interest."

Chris Williamson 17:08 Mm. It's-

Michael Malice 17:09 So it's, at that level, it's very, very weird.

Chris Williamson 17:11 It's challenging for girls. It's really challenging for girls, I think, because of hypergamy, right? So women tend-

Michael Malice 17:17 Right.

Chris Williamson 17:17 ... naturally to date up and across. And it's the problem, the same problem for any girls that are listening, if you are over six foot one, like I, I feel for you, because you're, you're having to look for athletes, you know, like basketball players, stuff like that. Like girls tend not to date men shorter than them. So if you are-

Michael Malice 17:33 Right.

Chris Williamson 17:33 And it's the same thing goes for every other factor about a girl. If you're a nine out of ten girl or a ten out of ten girl, like y- the guy doesn't want his mates to always be able to say, "You're punching." Or-

Michael Malice 17:45 Right.

Chris Williamson 17:45 ... if you're a girl who happens to earn half a million pounds a year, like you're, you don't want, despite my, uh, Instagram bio saying, "Aspiring trophy husband," um ... (laughs) I don't (laughs) , like most men don't want that.

Michael Malice 17:59 ... yeah, but it, and it's also, I, what they find is when they're that good-looking, the guy presumes that the woman won't be interested, so they will come at them very aggressively, and when she is obviously not interested in this aggression, then they feel comfortable with being very nasty to her, but they are the ones who have set up this whole kind of scenario-

Chris Williamson 18:20 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Michael Malice 18:20 ... uh, needlessly, and it becomes self-validating. It's, it's a very interesting dynamic at that level.

Chris Williamson 18:25 Dating's fascinating, man. I'm re-reading Mark Manson's Models at the moment, um, which is like how to attract women through honesty, essentially. And that's so, so interesting as he talks about the things that he's discovered. Mark Manson knows his shit. Like the things that he's discovered make relationships work, and um, yeah, super, super, super interesting. Uh, I got, I got a, a, another thing-

Michael Malice 18:48 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 18:48 ... that we can move on to.

Michael Malice 18:49 Let's go.

Chris Williamson 18:49 So Flamin' Hot Cheetos, do you know who invented them?

Michael Malice 18:54 No.

Chris Williamson 18:55 So Richard Montanez, who was-

Michael Malice 18:57 Okay.

Chris Williamson 18:57 ... a cleaner at the Frito-Lay factory.

Michael Malice 19:00 Oh.

Chris Williamson 19:00 So the, um, he's now the VP of Multicultural Sales for PepsiCo America.

Michael Malice 19:05 Okay.

Chris Williamson 19:05 The guy couldn't read or write when he was the janitor.

Michael Malice 19:08 Oh.

Chris Williamson 19:08 Um, and while he was there, Roger Enrico, who was like the CEO of, uh, uh, Frito-Lay had encouraged all of the workers to act like an owner.

Michael Malice 19:19 Okay.

Chris Williamson 19:19 That's what he said, he'd given this big, you know, one of those like end of year announcement speech type things Buffett and, and people like that give them all the time. And um, then this guy, this, this Richard Montanez guy had decided that there wasn't any Cheetos for the Mexican market, 'cause Mexicans love spice. And he just started like fucking around with some Cheetos and made Flamin' Hot Cheetos, and now he's the VP of Multicultural Sales-

Michael Malice 19:43 Ha.

Chris Williamson 19:43 ... for PepsiCo.

Michael Malice 19:44 I, I, I think I was more of a cheese... D- I've always been a Cheez Doodles guy myself.

Chris Williamson 19:48 You see in America, you guys just have the absolute like laundry list of, of every different type of confectionary and, and savory item.

Michael Malice 19:56 How, h- I'm sorry, how many types of Walkers crisps are there, like 60?

Chris Williamson 20:00 (laughs) Yeah, okay, that's fair.

Michael Malice 20:01 Prawn cocktail, hedgehog-

Chris Williamson 20:03 (laughs)

Michael Malice 20:03 ... mint lamb, tik- chicken tikka masala. What are you talking about? You, w- we could play this game.

Chris Williamson 20:10 Okay, yeah, you are right. America though, I mean, sometimes when I go over, I don't know whether it's just novelty, but when I do go to America, I'm just blown away, like some of the things that, th- like the breakfast cereals is one thing, like America does breakfast cereals so good. I'm super, super impressed by that.

Michael Malice 20:25 If you go to... For the, for the people across the pond who go to the... Whenever I go to anywhere I travel, I go to the supermarket 'cause I love seeing-

Chris Williamson 20:31 Yeah.

Michael Malice 20:31 ... all the wacky brands.

Chris Williamson 20:31 Yeah.

Michael Malice 20:32 Um, if you come to America, and you go down the cereal aisle, every cereal box that's for kids, the character looks like they're on cocaine.

Chris Williamson 20:40 (laughs)

Michael Malice 20:41 'Cause they're all like really excited, and their teeth are showing. And you look at it, I'm like, "These, this leprechaun is g- like, is cranked up."

Chris Williamson 20:48 Off his face.

Michael Malice 20:49 Yeah, and yeah, it's really... But you have that notice, Count Chocula is really excited about this cereal. It's like he hasn't slept all night 'cause he's been doing rails, and now here comes the chocolate to top it off. It's really nuts. Go look, and now you can't unsee it. If anyone goes to the super-

Chris Williamson 21:06 No, it's... You're-

Michael Malice 21:06 ... store, they'll see it.

Chris Williamson 21:06 ... totally correct, yeah. Count Chocula's been up on a heavy one all night.

Michael Malice 21:09 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 21:10 Right, next up, what do you think is the world's most popular spirit by volume sold?

Michael Malice 21:16 Oh, it's, it's, uh, Moutai from China.

Chris Williamson 21:19 Baijiu.

Michael Malice 21:20 Baijiu, sorry, yeah.

Chris Williamson 21:21 Baijiu from China. So the next closest.

Michael Malice 21:24 It tastes like... It tastes like gasoline.

Chris Williamson 21:26 Have you had it?

Michael Malice 21:27 Eh... So I did something called the Arduous March. So two, I did this twice. I had fans chip in money, and we bought, uh, we did this once with 32 bottles and once with 40 bottles. And me and my crew did a quarter shot to see if we can get through all of these-

Chris Williamson 21:43 Oh, you spoke about this on Rogan. Yeah, I remember.

Michael Malice 21:45 Yeah, yeah. And it was all these weird liquors. Um, the weirder the better. And one of them, out of the 32, the, the, it was Moutai, I guess it's a type of Baijiu-

Chris Williamson 21:53 Yeah.

Michael Malice 21:53 ... was by far the worst. Nothing was even close to as bad.

Chris Williamson 21:58 What's it taste like?

Michael Malice 21:58 It was horrific. It was a mix of like soy sauce and like rotten-

Chris Williamson 22:03 (laughs) What's it like, just straight off the bat, it's so racist. (laughs)

Michael Malice 22:06 Well, uh, yeah, it, but it does, it has that salty, like metallic taste.

Chris Williamson 22:09 Got you. Yep, yep.

Michael Malice 22:10 And then like meat, it was, it, and, and it, and it, it tasted like maybe some kind of cleanser. It was horrifying. And the, it keeps, the, the taste stays with you, you know, in your mouth. And I think how it works is they do shots all night and get like really w- whatever the word for plastered is in Newcastle.

Chris Williamson 22:27 Mm-hmm.

Michael Malice 22:28 Um, and after a while, you don't taste anything I think is how it works, is it kills your taste buds.

Chris Williamson 22:31 Burns the sensation away.

Michael Malice 22:33 Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 22:34 Fuck.

Michael Malice 22:35 Yeah, it's really bad.

Chris Williamson 22:36 10 billion liters a year.

Michael Malice 22:37 And some cost like $300 a, a bottle. It gets really expensive.

Chris Williamson 22:42 (sighs) Vodka, five billion liters a year. Baijiu, 10 billion liters a year.

Michael Malice 22:47 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 22:48 Shit, man. Right, next up, drunk shopping is a $45 billion per year industry.

Michael Malice 22:56 Okay.

Chris Williamson 22:57 Where do you drunk shop? You ever drunk shopped?

Michael Malice 22:59 I don't really drink 'cause I get meaner when I drink. Um-

Chris Williamson 23:03 Mean- meaner than usual?

Michael Malice 23:04 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 23:05 Oh, God.

Michael Malice 23:05 Um-

Chris Williamson 23:05 And then does someone need to take your Twitter off you?

Michael Malice 23:08 Take me what?

Chris Williamson 23:09 Take your Twitter off you?

Michael Malice 23:10 No, no, I meant in person.

Chris Williamson 23:12 Oh, okay. Right, got you.

Michael Malice 23:13 Yeah, I'm Russian, so we are very good at being cruel. And I'm also funny, so then the next day, I feel guilty when I say s- really nasty things-

Chris Williamson 23:21 And your surname-

Michael Malice 23:21 ... which are funny the most.

Chris Williamson 23:22 ... your surname is Malice.

Michael Malice 23:24 Yeah, Malice by name, malice by nature, as Roger Hargreaves would say. Um, uh, I have never done drunk shopping.

Chris Williamson 23:31 Oh.

Michael Malice 23:32 I don't think I have.

Chris Williamson 23:34 Apparent-

Michael Malice 23:34 Like, uh, online?

Chris Williamson 23:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So apparently 444 pounds is the average annual spend of a drunk shopper. Clothing and shoes most common purchase, and Amazon is the most highly drunk shopped platform.

Michael Malice 23:45 Okay, if I'm drunk, and I get home, I'm going to bed. I'm not going online. I'm not gonna go shop.

Chris Williamson 23:52 Well, I suppose-

Michael Malice 23:53 Do you?

Chris Williamson 23:54 No, no, I don't. I'm just thinking, I'm wondering if this is the married woman-

Michael Malice 24:01 ... yeah.

Chris Williamson 24:01 Not, not gonna booty call. You know, it's not a, "You up?" 2:30 AM text that she's going to send to, like-

Michael Malice 24:07 Right.

Chris Williamson 24:07 ... a bunch of people. Which, by the way, we have a series called Life Hacks on the podcast. A life hack which will never be featured on there, but I'm gonna put on now, is one that a friend used to use. He has a broadcast list on WhatsApp of 3:00 AM girls, 4:00 AM girls, and 5:00 AM girls, and that is like in descending order of preference-

Michael Malice 24:26 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 24:26 ... that he will send her, like, "What you up to?" And just broadcast it to the whole list individually. And then if they reply, great, but if no one does, then it goes to the 4:00 AM list, then he sends that, and then if no one reply, then it's like the 5:00 AM list, and that's like-

Michael Malice 24:38 It's like Dante's Inferno.

Chris Williamson 24:40 (laughs) Yes.

Michael Malice 24:41 Right?

Chris Williamson 24:41 You descend through the circle.

Michael Malice 24:42 The low ... Yeah, you descend and it gets worse and worse.

Chris Williamson 24:44 The circles of WhatsApp. (laughs)

Michael Malice 24:46 At the very base, it's Judas being chewed by Satan. I've had ... Right. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. I ... 'cause I think it's ... when I'm gonna stop drinking, I'm ... that's when I go home.

Chris Williamson 25:00 Mm-hmm.

Michael Malice 25:00 And I'm not going online, at all.

Chris Williamson 25:02 If you dr-

Michael Malice 25:03 It's gotta be when you're drinking by yourself.

Chris Williamson 25:04 Yeah, so you, you're double screening, you've got, you'd like ... Modern Family or whatever on-

Michael Malice 25:09 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 25:09 ... and it's like a Tuesday at s- 9:00 PM-

Michael Malice 25:12 Right.

Chris Williamson 25:12 ... and you've had, uh, a bottle of wine and you're just like, "Uh."

Michael Malice 25:16 Yeah, and some soup for yourself.

Chris Williamson 25:18 Yeah.

Michael Malice 25:18 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 25:18 Yeah, and then you buy some more-

Michael Malice 25:19 Chef only hurts if for one, yeah.

Chris Williamson 25:20 You buy some more soup, "Right, what else have we got here?" Here ... This one's, this one's so good, Michael.

Michael Malice 25:25 Okay.

Chris Williamson 25:26 Right, so emojis are starting to appear in evidence in court cases.

Michael Malice 25:31 Okay.

Chris Williamson 25:31 And, and lawyers are worried when emoji symbols are strung together, we don't have a reliable way of interpreting their meaning. (laughs)

Michael Malice 25:39 Okay. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 25:40 In 2017, an Israeli judge had to decide if one emoji-filled message constituted a verbal contract. So this guy had replied about coming to inquire about a house, and he was trying to work out, like, if the monkey or chipmunk on the end was, uh, some sort of positive reinforcement that he actually meant that he was gonna, like, come and do something with this house.

Michael Malice 26:02 Um, my favorite series of emojis, Kurt Schlichter, he's a senior columnist at Town Hall, he goes after the Bill Kristol types Republicans. And what he invented was the fist, the eggplant, and then the squirting water. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 26:18 It's a classic. It's an obv- it's a classic.

Michael Malice 26:21 It's just like, it's like a ... It's so much better than the finger.

Chris Williamson 26:24 (laughs) Yeah.

Michael Malice 26:25 Yeah, it's really, really great.

Chris Williamson 26:26 It's so visceral.

Michael Malice 26:27 So credit to Kurt for that. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 26:28 Yeah. What d- you ... What's ... I'll tell you what, you can tell a lot from a man by what his most frequently used emojis are. Have you got your phone nearby? Can we see your most used emo-

Michael Malice 26:37 I, I don't use the ph- ... I don't do them on the phone, I do them on Twitter. I'll tell you what they are.

Chris Williamson 26:40 Okay, cool.

Michael Malice 26:41 I, I know them off the top of my head.

Chris Williamson 26:42 Cool.

Michael Malice 26:42 The blowing kiss one.

Chris Williamson 26:44 Yeah.

Michael Malice 26:44 Because if someone sends me a nice tweet and I don't wanna write a long reply, I'll blow them a kiss.

Chris Williamson 26:48 Yep.

Michael Malice 26:49 Or if I'm being a, uh, like nasty to somebody else-

Chris Williamson 26:52 Mm-hmm.

Michael Malice 26:52 ... I'd be like, "Or maybe we'll ask your mom," blowing a kiss.

Chris Williamson 26:54 Mm-hmm.

Michael Malice 26:55 The other one is if I'm being really, uh, snide and bitchy on Twitter, I'll do the nail polish one-

Chris Williamson 27:02 (laughs) Queen.

Michael Malice 27:02 ... to signify this is me being bitchy.

Chris Williamson 27:04 Yes.

Michael Malice 27:04 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. (laughs) Yes, queen, yeah, I've just got the nail polish. Um, or you know, if someone says something like, "Well, maybe not with that shirt on," you know, then the nail polish comes out. Um, and the other one I use is, although less frequently since Bolsonaro took over Brazil, is the helicopter emoji. So the helicopter emoji, and I talk about this in my book, is when Pinochet took over Chile in 1979, uh, in a military coup, he took a lot of communists and non-communists apparently, and ... in helicopters, and threw them in the ocean. So when you see someone on Twitter who's being particularly egregious, you just reply with the helicopter, and they won't know what it is, but everyone else will. But now that we've got a guy in Brazil who's kind of in that direction, and it's not that funny, uh, I've, I've used it much less.

Chris Williamson 27:49 (sighs) Yeah, you gotta roll back on that. But getting the-

Michael Malice 27:51 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 27:51 ... getting the sea is a very good response to anyone that just ... that needs to leave, that needs to depart the conversation.

Michael Malice 27:57 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 27:58 Yeah.

Michael Malice 27:58 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 27:58 Okay. Uh, fast fashion-

Michael Malice 28:01 Okay.

Chris Williamson 28:02 ... is wi- is wiping ... is hitting the wiping rags business. So-

Michael Malice 28:05 What's the wipe? Wiping rag? (laughs)

Chris Williamson 28:06 Wiping rags. So there's billions of years, so about-

Michael Malice 28:09 What? Speak English, motherfucker. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 28:11 Wiping rags. It, it's a rag for wiping, Michael.

Michael Malice 28:14 Okay. Yeah, okay.

Chris Williamson 28:16 So 30% of textiles that are recovered for recycling in the US get used to wipe shit. Painters need to wipe up their splodges-

Michael Malice 28:23 Okay, like cloths.

Chris Williamson 28:25 Wait, so it's, it-

Michael Malice 28:26 Are, are th- Are they paper towels or are they cloths?

Chris Williamson 28:27 They're cloths.

Michael Malice 28:29 Okay.

Chris Williamson 28:29 So it's, like, textile material, right?

Michael Malice 28:32 Okay.

Chris Williamson 28:32 So you're, uh, an engineer who's gotta clean down some of the oil or whatever on a machinery, all this sort of stuff, and apparently fast fashion, so this, like, uh ... Dior guys have, like, PrettyLittleThing, and, and kind of ... I- imagine any dress that Kendall Jenner is on an af- affiliate deal for.

Michael Malice 28:49 Okay.

Chris Williamson 28:49 It costs about $20 and, and every girl owns it once. It's like a disposable dress, right?

Michael Malice 28:55 Okay.

Chris Williamson 28:55 Like a single-use dress or a single-use T-shirt. That's fast fashion and-

Michael Malice 28:59 Okay.

Chris Williamson 28:59 ... this, this clothing quality is so low that it's annihilating the wiping rags business because they literally can't stand up to wiping shit.

Michael Malice 29:08 Okay.

Chris Williamson 29:09 So it's such bad (laughs) it's such bad quality that once you've worn it-

Michael Malice 29:12 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 29:12 ... when you try and wipe some paint off with it, it just falls to pieces.

Michael Malice 29:15 I'm the opposite. I am a big denim collector, right? I've got 30 pairs of jeans, and the trick with the raw denim is-

Chris Williamson 29:22 Wow.

Michael Malice 29:23 Yeah. But you wear it for years, because it breaks down and you get the fades. You know what I mean? And it kinda adapts to your body, and ... You know what I mean? It ... Like, that's the fun of it, right?

Chris Williamson 29:32 Mm-hmm.

Michael Malice 29:32 And you almost never wash them. So this is the exact opposite of the kind of fashion I like. Like, I like it when your clothes ... You know ... Like, if you have corduroys where the whales have worn down over seven years, that's fun. You know what I mean? 'Cause I hate ... This is what drives me crazy, this is my autism speaking, when you have clothes that are distressed but you bought them new-

Chris Williamson 29:50 Yeah.

Michael Malice 29:50 ... like with the faded logos, that's so arti- it, it drives me crazy. I wanna have that T-shirt that's been through the wash 30 times-

Chris Williamson 29:58 Mm-hmm.

Michael Malice 29:58 ... and now it's, the letters are falling off. That's fun, 'cause I put in the work.

Chris Williamson 30:02 Yeah, you wanna feel like it's ... you've ... it's a shortcut to success.

Michael Malice 30:05 Yes, I've earned it.

Chris Williamson 30:07 Yeah.

Michael Malice 30:07 This is my sh- this ... And this shirt has seen some tough times.

Chris Williamson 30:09 This is my sweat patches.

Michael Malice 30:10 Exactly.

Chris Williamson 30:13 Yeah, I'm a, I'm a man who probably shortcuts that. But then, I, I buy cheap stuff. Do you know what I mean? I spend my nights surrounded by drunken students on the front door of a nightclub. I don't want anything nice. Everything nice-

Michael Malice 30:23 Wait, so-

Chris Williamson 30:23 ... that I own is destroyed.

Michael Malice 30:25 How annoying is it ... Do they ... Are they all up in your face about the show and about Insta?

Chris Williamson 30:30 Um, they were when it was a little bit more recent, so it's been like four and a half-

Michael Malice 30:33 Okay.

Chris Williamson 30:34 ... four and a half years now. Um, a little bit more. I got barred from the front door of my own event by my business partner because-

Michael Malice 30:41 Oh.

Chris Williamson 30:41 ... because when I would walk around outside, there would just be this throng of people that would like, "Ugh, ugh, ugh," like cats jumping up and down or something. Um, but that- that's kinda, that's kinda chilled now so I can actually do my job again, which is, which is nice.

Michael Malice 30:56 Do you get hit on more by chicks or by dudes?

Chris Williamson 30:59 Chicks. I give off a real bad gay vibe. It's just-

Michael Malice 31:01 Really?

Chris Williamson 31:02 Yeah, my gaydar ... Oh, I don't know how it works. My gaydar is accurate for other people, but my like, appearance on the gaydar for r- for people that are gay (inhales deeply) ... no.

Michael Malice 31:11 Huh. I thought the pretty guys get hit on the most. I did not know this. Okay, interesting.

Chris Williamson 31:15 I'm not sure. We were asking this question the other day. I wanna know, if you're a gay man, like how do you know if you're, if you're like a, a top or a bottom?

Michael Malice 31:23 I have no i- I, I, I don't know.

Chris Williamson 31:25 What ... Do you know what I mean? Like if you're listening, and can you please explain, like do you s- do you sometimes swap? Is it a, you know, is it always a one, a one-way street type thing? I wanna know. 'Cause on, in, on Grindr, you can choose whether or not you're top or bottom. Or I think-

Michael Malice 31:39 Okay.

Chris Williamson 31:39 ... you might be able to choose both. But like, how would you know? And what if two tops arrive, or two bottoms?

Michael Malice 31:45 Well, I, I think the analog would be, do you like choking her in bed or do you like getting choked in bed, right?

Chris Williamson 31:51 But you can still have sex either way.

Michael Malice 31:54 Right, but it's more like which is the more dominant and which is the more submit- or I don't know. I think we're talking about things we're not really familiar with, so it would ha-

Chris Williamson 32:03 Do, we def- we, we definitely are. That is definitely correct. What else have we got here? Um, oh, mushrooms.

Michael Malice 32:09 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 32:09 Mushroom, mushrooms and truffles are more closely related to humans than they are to plants.

Michael Malice 32:14 Yeah, 'cause of the proteins.

Chris Williamson 32:15 Yeah, and they breathe in ... I only found this out the other day, that they breathe in oxygen and breathe out carbon dioxide. What the fuck?

Michael Malice 32:20 Yeah. Yeah, they're ... And that's why they're used as meat analogs.

Chris Williamson 32:24 I didn't know this.

Michael Malice 32:26 Yeah, yeah. Um, so ba- I mean, if you think about how fungus works, it basically breaks down plant matter into its own form, so i- in a very, very primitive way, that's like eating.

Chris Williamson 32:36 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, they split off, so there was plants at the top, and then us and plants split off, but after us and plants split off, us and fungi split off. So we're part-

Michael Malice 32:45 Wait, fun- oh, I thought fungi came before plants. No?

Chris Williamson 32:48 No.

Michael Malice 32:49 Oh. Interesting. Okay.

Chris Williamson 32:51 Yeah. So, we are, we are part of a lineage that's after that.

Michael Malice 32:54 Okay, that's very cool.

Chris Williamson 32:55 Yeah, yeah. I thought that was interesting. And then, uh, I mean Paul Stamets has got all this stuff, right? Where he goes on about the mycelium under the floor that can talk to each other a million miles away and all this stuff.

Michael Malice 33:05 I just got a fossil of something called Dickinsonia, which looks like, like a quilted circle, and for a long time they didn't know whether it's a fungus or a jellyfish or a plant or ... since it's the oldest fossil or something that is not related to anything contemporaneous, and then somehow they found cholesterol molecules in one of the fossils, so now they know it was actually an animal. So it's really weird how things that look nothing like us, just based on the, uh, chemical composition, we can figure out what it is, right? 'Cause fungus looks so different. Some fungus don't have fruiting bodies, they, they're completely parasitic, whatever. Toe, toenail fungus doesn't look like a mushroom to us, right? We don't know if it's a virus, an infection, you know, bruise.

Chris Williamson 33:44 Just a thing.

Michael Malice 33:44 So ... Just a thing, and w- we can look based on how, for billions of years, there's certain things that have stayed the same. Isn't that weird?

Chris Williamson 33:53 It's crazy, man. I absolutely love thinking about that stuff. You've mentioned, there you've mentioned a couple of times buying stuff, random shit from the internet. What have you been-

Michael Malice 34:01 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 34:01 ... spite funding recently, and can you, for the people who don't know what that is, can you explain what it is?

Michael Malice 34:06 So I had this idea once when someone came for me, um, on Twitter. I said, "It would be a real shame if people gave me money I don't, uh, uh, for something I didn't want, just to spite you." And the donations kept coming in. I have a bunch of stuff right here, I'll show you. Um, and I'm like, all right, so here. I have, this is a pen, you're not gonna be able to see it really, made out of fordite. Fordite is what happens in factories when after years of hand spray-painting, it makes layers and layers and layers, and it's kind of a synthetic mineral. So this is a pen made out of fordite. Um, this is another pen, this f- this is from a Corvette factory.

Chris Williamson 34:44 That is cool.

Michael Malice 34:46 Then I have a pen stand made out of a walrus tusk. I did not need this, but they paid for it.

Chris Williamson 34:54 (laughs)

Michael Malice 34:54 After a while, it gets harder and harder to find things to buy. This is a pen from South Africa made out of a warthog tusk.

Chris Williamson 35:00 Oh, my God.

Michael Malice 35:01 I don't need seven pens. This pen is made out of-

Chris Williamson 35:03 Do you write much? Do you ever write? Have you ever written anything?

Michael Malice 35:06 Well, I ... Not with my pens.

Chris Williamson 35:08 (laughs)

Michael Malice 35:08 I'm an author. I use a computer. This one is made of wood from the DMZ between the Koreas. So that's pretty cool.

Chris Williamson 35:14 That's cool. That's cool as fuck.

Michael Malice 35:15 What else do I have handy?

Chris Williamson 35:17 Who ... So, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.

Michael Malice 35:18 Yeah, many-

Chris Williamson 35:18 Who, who was got hold of that piece of wood?

Michael Malice 35:22 So the guy who made it, his, his friend was stationed in the South Korean part-

Chris Williamson 35:27 Ah.

Michael Malice 35:27 ... and he just took a ) branch and sent it back to-

Chris Williamson 35:30 Fuck me, that's a dangerous ...

Michael Malice 35:32 It's a ... Yeah, it's really fun, this spite funding thing. I just, um, I'm looking right now at a, a signed photo of Andy Kaufman, who's my hero-

Chris Williamson 35:39 Yeah.

Michael Malice 35:39 ... uh, hanged, fricking hanging above my, my head. So it's a really fun, uh, shtick to do.

Chris Williamson 35:45 And what else-

Michael Malice 35:45 We're getting-

Chris Williamson 35:45 Are you thinking about anything else at the moment, or is it just-

Michael Malice 35:47 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:47 ... sort of spur of the moment?

Michael Malice 35:49 I've got a pair of tribal print pants, corduroys from Japan in honor of Elizabeth Warren, but someone bought them from under me so the money's still in escrow, but that was it. Yeah. And when Kamala Harris, I don't know how god- familiar they are with her over there. She was this cop who was running for president, just really a- an abomination of a human being. Uh, so when she lost, we had a ham-... 'cause the pig was roasted. I guess you call them the filth over there, right? Uh, we had a, a, um, ham roasting, a ham tasting. I had this Spanish ham and all the hams from all over the world.

Chris Williamson 36:20 Yeah.

Michael Malice 36:20 Um, actually, I'll, that's really funny, let me tell you something interesting. The first time I did an interview with the BBC, and this is a very shocking moment to me, and I, I'm, I'm gonna offend some people and I apologize in advance. Um, I was born in Russia, so the way the Soviets, Russians look at the police is very different from the States. And I was doing an interview on BBC Four or something, and they said, "Oh, this website you work on, you guys make a lot of jokes about the police." And I thought, you know, Britain's much more left than the States. And I said, "Well, it's like my dad always told me," and this is true, like, "Wherever you go on Earth, whenever you find yourself, the dumbest people are the cops." And they audibly gasped and they go, "This is a family show," and they changed the subject, and that was the first time I realized how that is politically incorrect, uh, to say. It was, it was very jarring, because I wasn't cursing or anything how do you even-

Chris Williamson 37:10 How would that joke have gone down in America?

Michael Malice 37:13 Oh, it, it, it would not go down here. Here, it would be very, um, controversial, uh, I'd get a lot of heat for it, so I'd bite my tongue, uh, and I'm like, I didn't reali- uh, the animus was out of proportion to what the very weak bit of humor that there was to it.

Chris Williamson 37:28 Mm. And you just didn't think, you didn't know how it was gonna land?

Michael Malice 37:31 I didn't think it was gonna land bad at all, 'cause this is Europe, so I assumed it was going to be the same as in Russia, and it was not. It was much closer to the States.

Chris Williamson 37:40 (laughs) It definitely is.

Michael Malice 37:43 So, yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:43 Yeah, it is. Uh, what else have we got? Oh, no babies, uh, born in Britain in 2016 were called Nigel. You know that?

Michael Malice 37:51 Oh. I love him and I'm in love with him.

Chris Williamson 37:53 I have a few friends that are called Nigel, they're a dying breed.

Michael Malice 37:56 He is, I met him at, um, the studio once, and I go to him, uh, "Mr. Farage, uh, what do you think of Enoch Powell?" And he goes, "He's an interesting man. Very interesting." And I'm like, "All right. I got you." (laughs)

Chris Williamson 38:14 Well, that's what Russell Brand called him, didn't he? He called him the pound shop Enoch Powell.

Michael Malice 38:17 Did he?

Chris Williamson 38:18 Yeah, Russell Brand-

Michael Malice 38:19 Okay.

Chris Williamson 38:19 ... referred to him, I think on Question Time as they sat on the same panel. He was, like, five yards away from him and said, "He's the pound shop Enoch Powell."

Michael Malice 38:27 Do people in the UK not appreciate the savagery when he goes to the European Parliament and basically takes a shit on the desk?

Chris Williamson 38:36 I think British people have a very unique sense of humor.

Michael Malice 38:42 Sure.

Chris Williamson 38:42 And, and I actually don't think that they find what Farage does as funny as what Farage does is.

Michael Malice 38:48 Okay.

Chris Williamson 38:49 Does that make sense? Like-

Michael Malice 38:50 Yeah, because when, to me, I, that, I don't know how many people saw it, like, when Brexit finally happened and he gave his little speech and they all ga- got up and started waving their little Union Jacks, it was so, so stupid, and so, so funny, and then the lady at the front of the room was like, "Sit down and get rid of your flags!"

Chris Williamson 39:06 (laughs)

Michael Malice 39:06 And he's like, "Don't worry, we're leaving." And I'm like, "This is hilarious," and I, it's not meant to be taken seriously at all, it's clearly clownish intentionally, and I, I don't, I, I, uh, people here in, in the States get very, very upset by Trump tweets-

Chris Williamson 39:23 Mm.

Michael Malice 39:23 ... when they're the stupidest thing ever.

Chris Williamson 39:24 Mm.

Michael Malice 39:25 And I'm like, "How are you giving this the power to, yeah, I get it's the president, but this, in, of all the things he's done, this is the one that gets you upset that he's, you know, making fun of this person?" I mean, how are you, how are you, how do you have this much energy to be this triggered after this much time?

Chris Williamson 39:42 Man, I, this is what I replied to you on Twitter yesterday, you, you retweeted a video of some people protesting outside of the White House, uh, ringing bells, and, and shouting-

Michael Malice 39:52 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 39:52 ... shame.

Michael Malice 39:52 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 39:52 And th- the first thought into my mind was, "I don't understand how these people have so much time."

Michael Malice 39:59 Right.

Chris Williamson 39:59 I, I, I dream of having that much spare time that I could go and do that. I need to manage my schedule more efficiently or get them to do it.

Michael Malice 40:05 Th- they need to be doing more drunk shopping. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 40:07 They do. Well, they bought obviously, "Fuck. Richard, we've bought this bell from Amazon."

Michael Malice 40:13 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 40:13 (laughs) "I was wasted. What am I gonna do with it? Right, why don't we go to the White House and then it'll look, we'll post-hoc rationalize the bell purchase and make it look like it was social justice?"

Michael Malice 40:23 "And we can make this all a write-off."

Chris Williamson 40:24 Yup. And it's tax deductible. Yeah-

Michael Malice 40:26 Right.

Chris Williamson 40:26 ... because it, it was used as part of content. Let's talk, I mean, you know, this year, 2020, all that's gonna happen is election shit, right? Like, it's, that's all that's going on. How do you see the rest of this year playing out? What's gonna happen?

Michael Malice 40:40 I, well, tonight as, uh, as we record is the Iowa Prime Caucuses, which is the first voting in the Democratic nomination, and over the last week it's become full-blown warfare between the establishment and the Bernie Sanders people, which I absolutely love any kind of political carnage. Um, depending on what happens tonight, it looks like it's gonna get very, very, very ugly, very, very, very quickly. Bernie has already been launching ads explicitly attacking the Democratic Party, which I think is historically unprecedented. He says, the ad's like, "We make Trump nervous, we make the insurance companies nervous, we make the Democratic establishment nervous." I don't think that's real- even Trump never really went after the, quote unquote, Republican establishment.

Chris Williamson 41:25 Yeah.

Michael Malice 41:25 So if he ... and he's surging. So if that is validated, uh, by a win, uh, I don't know what, they're already talking, the DNC, the Democratic National Committee, what they can do to stop this guy, so it might get even more public and even more brazen. Now, you might not have seen this across the pond, but, you know, Elizabeth Warren said he said to her that a woman can't get elected president. They tried to play it off like he's saying a woman shouldn't get elected president. And on MSNBC, one of our networks, which is failing badly, uh, Joy-Ann Reid had a body language expert to prove that Bernie was lying. I mean, this is, uh, like basically like tea leaves. I- it was, so to, to be that brazen, and I'm hardly a Bernie person, um, is gonna be great. We're gonna see unprecedented machinations, um, on both sides of the, of the Democratic Party to s- and, but you, you're having the same thing. You have the real life Titania McGrath, Rebecca Long Bailey about to take over for Jeremy Corbyn, and she's saying that inequality keeps her up at night.It's, like, get some rest, bitch. Calm down.

Chris Williamson 42:23 Yeah. I mean, the, what is going to happen in the UK, uh ... The thing about the UK is, politics is so short-lived for us. Like, in America, ever since 2016, all that anyone in America's wanted to talk about is how did Trump get elected. Then there's, like, The Great Hack on Netflix, which was that documentary about how the Cambridge Analytica scandal. Then there's, like, all this Ukraine stuff, then there's impeachment stuff, then there's-

Michael Malice 42:48 Like-

Chris Williamson 42:48 ... Russian hacking and Russian bot farms and da- And it's just been four years constantly of, like-

Michael Malice 42:54 Right.

Chris Williamson 42:54 ... post hoc rationalizing what the fuck happened, right? And-

Michael Malice 42:58 Yes.

Chris Williamson 42:58 ... with the UK, as soon as ... So on the couple of weeks leading up to the election, there was all rousing ... people with roses in their bio, and, and, and for the many, not the few, and all this stuff.

Michael Malice 43:09 Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 43:10 Two weeks later, it's all forgotten. Two weeks later Love Island's on or sele- I'm A Celebrity... Get Me Out Of Here! is on, on ITV on, on the TV channel. So they're just calling someone a fat bitch on TV. That's all, that's all that happens.

Michael Malice 43:22 What was your reaction when you saw Diane Abbott wearing two left shoes-

Chris Williamson 43:26 Two left shoe- (laughs)

Michael Malice 43:26 ... and, and the different ones? I mean, uh, that ha- I actually love her. Like, I love her a lot because here's what, uh ... People make fun of her. We have people like Diane Abbott here. The thing where I think I really respect her is she knows how to stick to, uh, the message, right? She was on with Piers Morgan and he's like, "What's Labour's plan for immigration?" And she's like, "Piers, the Tories don't ... It's not working and it's disaster." He's like, "Okay, fine, what's your plan?" "I've told you, Piers-

Chris Williamson 43:55 (laughs)

Michael Malice 43:55 ... the Tories ..." And I'm sitting there and I'm like, I respect a politician who's getting punched in the face-

Chris Williamson 44:02 (laughs)

Michael Malice 44:02 ... and is not reacting. That takes skill, and that takes fortitude. I'm not being ironic or sarcastic.

Chris Williamson 44:08 Mm-hmm.

Michael Malice 44:08 'Cause here they get flustered, they, they freak out. So she's disciplined, so it's a, I, I, I find her very, very interesting.

Chris Williamson 44:15 When you see that single-mindedness ... So we saw it on election night, as soon as the exit polls happened, someone somewhere in the Labour Party had trickled down, "Call it a Brexit issue. Call it a Brexit, um, vote." And that was all you heard from the first-

Michael Malice 44:32 Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 44:32 ... guy that came out. And then I can't remember who it was, one of the, um, panel pundits on the side of the BBC had managed to get a leaked, uh, message memorandum type thing that had gone around which was like, "Right, this is the party line." And he was (laughs) reading through this leaked thing on air, and just saying-

Michael Malice 44:49 Wow.

Chris Williamson 44:49 ... and just saying like, "Yeah, they're just saying just focus on Brexit, call it a Brexit issue," 'cause then the, the, the finger's kind of not really pointed at the fact that we didn't have any good policies.

Michael Malice 44:58 Yeah, and then Brexit's going to be resolved, so now we're gonna have a clean slate next time.

Chris Williamson 45:01 Yeah. Which I don't think's gonna change anything, either. Okay, so we've got that with, with Bernie moving forward. Have you got ... Do you put your money where your mouth is with stuff for what's gonna happen later this year, or are you not, do you not do that this far out?

Michael Malice 45:12 I've put my money where my mouth is that I donated money to Biden because I want a year of him campaigning. Uh, he just recently went to the coal miners and told them, uh, "If you know how to c- shovel coal, you can learn how to program a computer." Which is a lie, that's not accurate. I don't ... If y- someone knows how to use a computer doesn't mean they can shovel coal, either. So i- his son being a, an admitted crackhead, um, the fact that we can use the word crackhead and have it be funny again ... Whenever he tweets, I always tweet with a response of a cracked pipe-

Chris Williamson 45:40 (laughs)

Michael Malice 45:40 ... and people reply to me, "That's not a crackpipe, that's a meth pipe." And how foolish of me-

Chris Williamson 45:46 (sighs)

Michael Malice 45:46 ... not to know the distinction between the two. Or they correct me, "He's not the crackhead, his son is the crackhead." Oh-

Chris Williamson 45:52 (laughs) Yeah.

Michael Malice 45:52 How embarrassing. So I want a year of this, plus he's been getting very, very, um, um, feisty on the campaign trail. He's been yelling at people, he's been turning his backs on them, he's been telling them to vote for Trump. So angry old man Biden is this kind of bubbling understory that I really need to see a lot more of. And my dream is that he gets the nomination and he gets, let's say, physically incapacitated in some, G- God forbid, and then the party steals it and gives it to Hillary.

Chris Williamson 46:20 (laughs)

Michael Malice 46:20 Which, wh- is not an impossibility at all, and I would desperately love that to happen. I wanna see her lose three times.

Chris Williamson 46:27 (laughs)

Michael Malice 46:27 It's like any m- any Mummy movie, you're gonna have a trilogy, right?

Chris Williamson 46:30 Yeah, okay, yeah.

Michael Malice 46:30 You need the mummy to come back for the third time and get her final defeat.

Chris Williamson 46:34 Where does Dwayne Johnson fit into this? 'Cause he must have to come-

Michael Malice 46:36 The Rock? (laughs)

Chris Williamson 46:38 Yeah. (laughs)

Michael Malice 46:38 He said he's gonna run.

Chris Williamson 46:39 Is that what it is? Is that what's happening? I'd vote for The Rock.

Michael Malice 46:41 I think in 2024, maybe. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 46:43 Yeah, I'd vote for The Rock.

Michael Malice 46:44 But Trump runs for his third term.

Chris Williamson 46:46 Fuck, man.

Michael Malice 46:47 So wait, let me ask you this, Mr. Fitness Guy. How do you stay motivated on a cut? And how do you psychologically handle losing the strength?

Chris Williamson 47:00 Um-

Michael Malice 47:00 Those mind games are the toughest part-

Chris Williamson 47:02 Okay.

Michael Malice 47:02 ... 'cause I was at the gym last week and my lifts are all down, and it's like, "What's the point?" Blah, blah, bl- You know, it, the brain f- fucks with itself.

Chris Williamson 47:09 Mm-hmm. So the problem you've got when you're training for aesthetics and not performance-

Michael Malice 47:14 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 47:14 ... is that your progress in the mirror is always going to be subjective, not objective.

Michael Malice 47:18 Right.

Chris Williamson 47:18 So if you were s- training purely for strength, you would know, "Last week I lifted X, this week I lifted X plus five." Good. Whereas you could wake up 2% leaner than you were a month ago but be in a shit head space, look at yourself in the mirror and go, "I look fucking shit. I really don't like th- this." Or, "I'm not ..." Whatever. "Scales are lying," whatever it might be. So I think-

Michael Malice 47:38 But isn't also, let me interrupt you, I'm sorry. It's also when you have hunger and you have the calorie depletion, your brain is also going to tell you negative things. It's, you're not in a positive place like when you're stuffing your face and you have all the carbs and endorphins.

Chris Williamson 47:51 Right, diet brain. So it's-

Michael Malice 47:53 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 47:53 ... when you're, when you're on a diet, all you can think about is the next bit of food.

Michael Malice 47:56 Right.

Chris Williamson 47:57 Like, "I just want more," uh, and it's the same thing ... I was talking to Morgan Housel. You know who Morgan is?

Michael Malice 48:03 No.

Chris Williamson 48:03 Wrote for, um, a big, big sort of Wall Street advisor and, and personal finance guy. And it, we were talking about debt brain. It's like if you're in debt, like severely in debt, and you don't know where the next meal or the next payment on the credit card's coming from-

Michael Malice 48:16 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 48:16 ... it's precisely the same as diet brain. So in terms of how you can kind of keep motivation up, it's challenging, man. Like, a diet will turn anyone crazy. I have a friend-

Michael Malice 48:24 Well I say, I say regimen. Girls have diets, men have regimens, and it has the word men in it.

Chris Williamson 48:28 Correct. Nice, nice.

Michael Malice 48:30 Ready?

Chris Williamson 48:31 Um, regi-m-x-n.

Michael Malice 48:34 (laughs) Yeah, there you go.

Chris Williamson 48:35 (laughs) Yeah, it's cha- it's challenging, man. So the best thing that I can say is just to kind of stick to the process. Like if you just continue to stick to whatever the plan is that's in front of you, ensure that you're having a refeed day, refeeding when you... So you're on a calorie deficit and then you're having one day that's high.

Michael Malice 48:56 Yep. No, I should start doing that.

Chris Williamson 48:57 I think so. As long as you don't have such a high day that it bumps your total weekly calories then over into a surplus. But let's say that, let's say that you're on... Are you tracking calories?

Michael Malice 49:07 I do macros.

Chris Williamson 49:08 Yeah. Yeah. So do you know what your... Do you know what your macros are?

Michael Malice 49:10 Uh, I can tell you, sure.

Chris Williamson 49:12 Let me know.

Michael Malice 49:12 Hold on, let me open up a file.

Chris Williamson 49:14 What are you weighing?

Michael Malice 49:15 I am... I dropped to... I'm down to 137.

Chris Williamson 49:18 137?

Michael Malice 49:20 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 49:21 Wow.

Michael Malice 49:21 But I'm also 5'6".

Chris Williamson 49:22 Yeah, yeah, but still, 137's- 137 at 5'6" is light man. You must --

Michael Malice 49:26 It's not that light.

Chris Williamson 49:27 So that's why the- that's why the abs have come in though, right?

Michael Malice 49:29 Oh, yeah. And the cum gutters too. I'm very excited. Um, 176 protein.

Chris Williamson 49:34 Yep.

Michael Malice 49:34 175 carbs and 51 fat.

Chris Williamson 49:37 Yeah, that's good.

Michael Malice 49:38 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 49:38 That's good. That's nice. I think that's... What's that? Probably about 2,100 cals I think for the day, something like that.

Michael Malice 49:43 I think approxing my friend said they are about just above 2,000, yeah.

Chris Williamson 49:45 Yeah. Got you. So I think if you're doing 2,000, 2,000 and then if you had one low day and then one day where you maybe did two-five and allowed yourself to eat a little bit more and chose that-

Michael Malice 49:56 Okay.

Chris Williamson 49:56 ... chose that on a day when you, you know you're going to really lift, and then you're actually going to go in, you're gonna feel a little bit more full and you're gonna feel a little bit more energized to go into the gym and stuff like that. So it's quite-

Michael Malice 50:06 And then it's al- it's also easier psychologically because you have to tell yourself, "I just gotta hang in till Saturday."

Chris Williamson 50:12 Yeah. Sacrifice for the lord.

Michael Malice 50:12 And then I have my reward. Okay. That's very helpful.

Chris Williamson 50:15 Another thing as well to consider is anyone that's listening that's ever been on a diet will, uh, if you've gone on a regimen-

Michael Malice 50:22 Regimen.

Chris Williamson 50:22 Uh, well, the regimen. Um.

Michael Malice 50:25 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 50:27 Uh, I had a... So I had Andrew Doyle on, creator of Titania McGrath, and-

Michael Malice 50:31 I was just with him in, in, uh, LA.

Chris Williamson 50:33 How amazing is he?

Michael Malice 50:34 He's gay.

Chris Williamson 50:35 Yeah.

Michael Malice 50:35 And I said to him, I go, "Andrew, we have to take the faggiest photo ever." So if you go to my Instagram, there's a picture of us feeding each other pink ice cream.

Chris Williamson 50:43 (laughs)

Michael Malice 50:43 There's also another picture of me wiping it off his cheek because he's a girl, right? You know what I mean? Um, and it- it's really, really fun. He's hilarious. I adore him.

Chris Williamson 50:53 Dude. So he was sat in my living-

Michael Malice 50:55 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 50:55 He was sat in my living room there. He was playing at the Edinburgh Fringe and he was going to London to be on Sky News and then getting the train up and the train goes past my house essentially. Stopped off, came in, had a coffee, fucked off up there. Man, I was in... I couldn't breathe. There were some of the things he comes out with.

Michael Malice 51:12 He's so... I adore him, yeah.

Chris Williamson 51:14 Have you seen that him and Douglas Murray are both touring the UK?

Michael Malice 51:17 No. Oh, that's awesome.

Chris Williamson 51:18 As a pair.

Michael Malice 51:20 That's amazing. Douglas was supposed to be on my show but he couldn't get like the license to get to the States or something. It was a severe visa delay.

Chris Williamson 51:26 Oh, no. Out- outlawed from the estates, isn't it?

Michael Malice 51:27 Oh, but speaking of estates, I just saw something else I got Spike-funded. You're not gonna be able to make this out. This is... It's not gonna focus.

Chris Williamson 51:34 Yeah.

Michael Malice 51:34 This is the first penny ever made from 1787 designed by Ben Franklin and on it, it says, "Mind your business." If you look this up-

Chris Williamson 51:45 Why? Why? What? Why?

Michael Malice 51:46 ... which means penny, F-F G-I-O. It's the first penny, yeah. Isn't that great?

Chris Williamson 51:50 How did you... How much was that?

Michael Malice 51:51 It was only $200.

Chris Williamson 51:55 For the first penny in America?

Michael Malice 51:56 Yeah, that's not that much. It goes for much more.

Chris Williamson 51:58 Yeah, I know. That's what I mean.

Michael Malice 52:00 Yeah, 200, for this penny from 1787. And that-

Chris Williamson 52:02 I just thought it would have been like milli-... I thought it would... I don't know, like some-

Michael Malice 52:05 It's not literally the first one. I mean, they were in circulation.

Chris Williamson 52:07 Yeah, yeah. I get it but there's not gonna be many of them floating around, right?

Michael Malice 52:09 Correct, and especially not in good condition where the- the... A lot of them, the slogan's worn off. I'm like, "No, no, I have to see 'Mind your business.'" Is that great?

Chris Williamson 52:16 You should get... You should wear it around your neck or something like that.

Michael Malice 52:19 Oh my... I wouldn't... If I... Oh, that's not a bad idea.

Chris Williamson 52:23 Melt it down and turn it into, like, something else.

Michael Malice 52:26 I was gonna frame it and have it right when you walk into my house, like a nice little frame.

Chris Williamson 52:30 Mm-hmm.

Michael Malice 52:31 Or in the bathroom or something. I don't know. I love it. I- I gotta find a frame for it.

Chris Williamson 52:35 That's awesome, man.

Michael Malice 52:35 But yeah.

Chris Williamson 52:36 Okay, so we roll- we're rolling the clock forward, we're getting to later in this year and then what happens? What happens... Okay, two, two scenarios. First one is Trump versus Biden, second one is Trump versus Bernie. What happens when they actually stand off against each other?

Michael Malice 52:48 I don't think that the Democratic Party will allow Bernie to be their nominee.

Chris Williamson 52:54 How- how do they sabotage that?

Michael Malice 52:56 I don't know how they would do it, whether they would change the rules at the last minute. There's a lot of corporate power in the Democratic Party and I'm sure with the Labor Party too. They- they pretend it's all for the people, corporate power is powerful, you know, every country in- in all parties, right? Uh, they will... These corporate... Bernie's no joke when it comes to democratic socialism and, you know, contempt for corporations and corporate power in America. He- he means it. He's been saying this for decades. I don't know what they will do but they will do whatever it takes because as we're seeing here, you're not... You guys aren't privy to it, the media has now started jumping against him in collusion with the Democratic Party. So what the press did against Trump in 2015, '16, uh, they're going to do against Bernie. They're going to start dropping things. I- I- I'm absolutely certain they will never let him be the nominee.

Chris Williamson 53:50 Oh, God.

Michael Malice 53:51 Let's but let's pretend that he does somehow. Let's pretend.

Chris Williamson 53:53 Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Michael Malice 53:53 If it's Trump versus Biden, um, it is going to be, uh, the... It's not often we get to see an old man beaten and laugh.

Chris Williamson 54:04 (laughs)

Michael Malice 54:04 Like, beaten till his teeth fall out. Um, it's going to be horrible to watch. He's not well. I think he's a decent guy. I think he cares about people. I think he is a little bit senile. He forgot Obama's name. He's forgetting how to talk often. He just recently said L- LB- L-G-B-T-O-B-G-Y-N. Like, he was...

Chris Williamson 54:24 (laughs)

Michael Malice 54:24 He said this. This is not a function of... You know, it- it's- it's... But it's kind of sad because-

Chris Williamson 54:31 Yeah, yeah.

Michael Malice 54:31 ... the guy's suffered through a lot. He's had family tragedies. I wish him noth-... I make fun of the son but I don't think he's a bad person.

Chris Williamson 54:37 Mm-hmm.

Michael Malice 54:37 And even this-... all of this, even if the corruption were all true, it's hardly bad by political standards. Everyone does this kind of stuff. So I do feel bad for him, number one. Um, so I think Trump would wipe the floor with him. With Sanders, if you had two anti-establishment figures, which I don't think there's historic precedent for in the States, at least not for like a good 80 years, I don't know what it would look like. I don't, I, I mean, I think it would be... I think the big loser there would be media and social media would really seize power because both of these figures, Trump and Sanders, are very, very social media driven and anti-establishment in every kind of sense. Hillary, you know, this, this lovely woman who Sanders endorsed and campaigned for, just recently said, "No one likes Bernie and he's never gotten anything done," very gratuitously. Well, that gives him an opportunity because that means he's not beholden to you guys, and he is in a position to be like, "We tried it your way. Hillary lost to the worst person in history, an election she should've won, we have this jackass, now we're trying it my way." And that's a very compelling message, I feel.

Chris Williamson 55:42 Mm. So you think that if, if there's no roadblocks put, put in place, that you could actually see Bernie getting through?

Michael Malice 55:49 It's conceivable.

Chris Williamson 55:50 Yeah.

Michael Malice 55:50 But I, I, I think the, this would be kind of the bl- I can't think of another election America's had that would've been this kind of messy, other than like William Jennings Bryan and, and, um, McKinley in like 1896. Like it would be... Oh, no, no, '68. '68 you had three parties. You had Richard Nixon, you had, um, George Wallace, the Southern racist figure, and then you had Hubert Humphrey from the Democrats and they were rioting at the, at the Democratic convention and it was basically a, close to a tie in the popular vote between Nixon and Humphrey, and Nixon was reviled by the Democrats, understandably. It was a very, very, very dark election. This would be, I think, somewhat similar.

Chris Williamson 56:31 It's like two, uh, south ends of a magnet, right?

Michael Malice 56:35 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 56:35 If you get that and it's just moong, everything gets spun around.

Michael Malice 56:37 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It would, it would be really, really, uh, horrific.

Chris Williamson 56:41 (laughs)

Michael Malice 56:41 In a good way. I love the carnage.

Chris Williamson 56:44 If you were, if you were an Avenger, do you think you'd be Loki?

Michael Malice 56:48 Uh, well, Loki's not in the Avengers, he's an enemy. I'm a DC Comics person.

Chris Williamson 56:52 Okay.

Michael Malice 56:53 But I am very much a trickster figure, so yes. Loki the, the Norse god, not Loki the comic book character.

Chris Williamson 56:57 Got you, got you, okay. Who's your favorite DC guy or girl?

Michael Malice 57:02 Um, I'm a big, I w- I was, no one's, I'm a hipster so no one's gonna have heard of this, but I was a huge fan of the Legion of Super-Heroes. I have every issue ever. Uh, they took place in the 30th century and there was a character there called, um, Triplicate Girl. So you have Super Boy, you have Super Girl, you have Saturn Girl who's telepathic, Cosmic Boy, Magnets, Lightning Lad, and Triplicate Girl could just split into three people. And it's like, okay, this guy can juggle the sun and it's like, okay, there's three chicks here.

Chris Williamson 57:30 (laughs)

Michael Malice 57:31 And it's just like, "Why, why are you here?" Like, so there's, so there's triplets? Okay. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 57:36 (laughs)

Michael Malice 57:36 So I love that, and one of them, then one of her bodies was destroyed, so she just became Duo Damsel. So it's like, "Okay, we have people here who can like change, like heat and electricity and light. And then there's like twins. Okay?"

Chris Williamson 57:50 (laughs) Twins who sometimes become Siamese twins.

Michael Malice 57:53 Yeah. It's like, "All right, like I guess you can fight this like witch who can destroy the universe." (laughs)

Chris Williamson 57:58 Have you ever seen that Family Guy episode where they all get, they all get infected with, um, nuclear waste and Meg's, uh, power is that she can grow her fingernails really fast?

Michael Malice 58:09 Yeah. Yeah. Of course.

Chris Williamson 58:10 (laughs)

Michael Malice 58:10 That was before they canceled the show and brought it back.

Chris Williamson 58:12 Yeah.

Michael Malice 58:13 Yeah, and, and they had the Dallas ending.

Chris Williamson 58:16 Yes. Yes, they did. Yeah.

Michael Malice 58:18 Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 58:18 Fuck, man. Look, Michael, I've taken up enough of your day, man. Twitter's calling you. Uh, people want to come and, people want to come and Spike fund, give you some money online, where do they go? What do they do?

Michael Malice 58:27 Uh, michael malice.com/contribute. But I'm on Twitter and if you're ever in the States, come and be on my show.

Chris Williamson 58:32 Man, Brooklyn, right?

Michael Malice 58:34 Yes, but we, we record them in, in Manhattan.

Chris Williamson 58:37 I have... Every single day there is another reason for me to come out. Every single day.

Michael Malice 58:44 I would love to show you Brooklyn, and here's why. Because we don't have like reality hunks like with accents here-

Chris Williamson 58:52 Do not parade me around the streets, Michael. (laughs)

Michael Malice 58:54 But I, I absolutely want to see what this would be like and what the reaction is. And I bet you there'd be some Loki hostility.

Chris Williamson 59:02 I'm ready for it. I'm rea- Will you, will you protect me?

Michael Malice 59:05 Yeah, I'm sure you can handle it. No, but I'll, I'll... You can protect yourself.

Chris Williamson 59:08 All right.

Michael Malice 59:08 You, you, you, uh, you know go to, you go to the gym. You can handle it.

Chris Williamson 59:11 Fantastic. Well, that'll do. Thanks, man. You know what to do. Like, share and subscribe. If you've got any comments or feedback, leave it in the comments below and we'll see you next time.