Dating, Finances & Happiness - James Smith | Modern Wisdom Podcast 362

1. 0:00 – 1:15

   Intro

   1. JSJames Smith0:00

      My body clock and my broody nature has become a lot more intense since the pandemic.

   2. CWChris Williamson0:06

      Correct. Same.

   3. JSJames Smith0:07

      But, at the same time, the freedom to roam, meet, fall in love, and all of that, has never been more shattered and separated and digital and soulless, and it, it's got so much worse. (wind blows)

   4. CWChris Williamson0:24

      James Smith, welcome to the show.

   5. JSJames Smith0:26

      Thanks for having me back.

   6. CWChris Williamson0:27

      Difficult second album today.

   7. JSJames Smith0:30

      Why'd you say that?

   8. CWChris Williamson0:31

      Well, the diff- uh, you have a good debut, and then the second one, you've got to keep up with the talent, you know?

   9. JSJames Smith0:36

      If you're thinking about films as well, often the second one is never as good as the first. But I've got faith, because we were saying just off air now, I've got a proper setup. I'm, I'm sat at a desk. I feel professional. I've got a professional microphone. I'm ready.

   10. CWChris Williamson0:52

       Yeah, so even if what you're saying is bollocks, at least it looks the part.

   11. JSJames Smith0:56

       As long as I've got good hand gestures for people watching on YouTube, and I can command the conversation using those, we should be all right.

   12. CWChris Williamson1:02

       (laughs) Like a, a guy doing the weather, like a weather guy. "So we've got a cold front moving in from the north and some interesting points coming in from the south." So obviously, you are now subscribed to my newsletter, like everybody else should be, and in it this week, I identified

2. 1:15 – 7:42

   Humans Fighting Animals

   1. CWChris Williamson1:15

      the percentage of Britons that thought they could beat different animals in a fight. So 45% of Brits think that they could beat a goose, 38% think that they could beat a medium-sized dog, 18% thought that they could beat an eagle, and then 5% thought that they could beat a kangaroo. What do you think is the largest animal that you could realistically beat in a fight?

   2. JSJames Smith1:36

      Before we do that, we need to set the ground rules of what victory is, right?

   3. CWChris Williamson1:40

      The animal either runs away or it's dead or it's immobilized.

   4. JSJames Smith1:45

      Okay, because I'm a purple belt in jujitsu, so you know, if I take the back of a kangaroo, and I've got a seatbelt under/over, I've got, you know, control over that, I've got two hooks in behind the legs, no rotational control of the kangaroo, there's not gonna be a verbal tap. So, you know, I-

   5. CWChris Williamson2:01

      (laughs) So the kangaroo's dead.

   6. JSJames Smith2:03

      I wanna... No, no, no. I've just got control, just got control. I wanna look at the adjudicator and be like, "Have I won?" Because if you want me to kill this kangaroo, then, you know, there, there's gonna be a conflict of interest there. I don't think many people have been really looking at the rule set. Being a BJJ practitioner, I need to know the rules. Where I'm accu- where am I going to accumulate points? With some animals, like a goose, I might pull guard, slide in on my bum, you know, take away the threat. Then that goose steps into the guard. Next thing you know, half guard, deep half, get a sweep, end up on top.

   7. CWChris Williamson2:35

      I think that most of these animals, the advantage comes from behind, but the problem is, especially with a goose and a kangaroo, their reach. You're gonna have to try and fight the reach. 'Cause kangaroos do that sort of double, like, the dropkick thing, and that's gonna be, that's gonna be challenging for you because you're not going to be used to striking at BJJ.

   8. JSJames Smith2:54

      That's okay because I'll, I'll catch the leg that they kick with, and then we'll do a run the pipe, which is a wrestling move, to sit them down. So, you know, I reckon I could have a few animals. Uh-

   9. CWChris Williamson3:03

      What about an eagle?

   10. JSJames Smith3:06

       Again, the size discrepancy, I wouldn't really know how to go about it, and I wouldn't want to hurt the eagle either. So you know. When it comes to altercations, I still think I'd probably end up running away, but I'm not sure, if I'm honest.

   11. CWChris Williamson3:16

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JSJames Smith3:16

       I probably won. You know, if I could fight any animal... Actually, no, I'd say a monkey, but they're way too strong. So I, I don't know, if I'm honest. I'm really not sure.

   13. CWChris Williamson3:26

       66% of Brits think that they could beat a housecat, which means that 34% think that the housecat would win. That, that really concerns me. Like, the, a cat is literally designed to be dropkicked over a fence. Like, it's the exact size, it's the perfect distance off the ground. If you can get it laterally... How far do you reckon you could kick a cat?

   14. JSJames Smith3:46

       20, 20 meters.

   15. CWChris Williamson3:47

       Easily.

   16. JSJames Smith3:48

       Ease-

   17. CWChris Williamson3:48

       Yeah.

   18. JSJames Smith3:49

       (laughs) Have you heard, um, have you heard of the saying, though, a dead cat still bounces?

   19. CWChris Williamson3:53

       Uh, yeah. I don't know what it means, though.

   20. JSJames Smith3:56

       So, like, uh, when people are on their way out of success, right, they, they say, like, you know, you could still book them for an event. You know, let's say you find someone from, uh, a hit T- what was T- Too Hot To Handle, right?

   21. CWChris Williamson4:11

       Yeah.

   22. JSJames Smith4:11

       The first season. You could still get one from, someone from season one, put them in a, a nightclub in Windsor, and they would still sell tickets. They're a dead count- a dead cat. It would still bounce if you drop it from enough height.

   23. CWChris Williamson4:23

       Okay.

   24. JSJames Smith4:23

       So, uh, how far it falls, it's still gonna bounce, and the, the kind of adage is, I believe it, is that, uh, yeah, you can still get a dead cat to bounce if you drop it from enough height.

   25. CWChris Williamson4:32

       Did you know that the terminal velocity of a cat is nonfatal?

   26. JSJames Smith4:38

       That's a, that, that would make a lot of sense, seeing as they've jumped from buildings and... It, it's mad. Have you seen, uh, there was a video on the internet the other day of a guy jumping out of a window of, like, a fourth, fifth story floor, hit the deck hard, and just got up and legged it. How he, how he-

   27. CWChris Williamson4:55

       What did he land on? Like grass or pavement?

   28. JSJames Smith4:57

       It was like grassy, grassy, kind of slippery slope onto concrete, but his butt hit the ground. Like, if he broke his tailbone, it wouldn't surprise me.

   29. CWChris Williamson5:04

       Yeah.

   30. JSJames Smith5:05

       But the adrenaline, he just got up and run. And the police officers come around a few minutes later, and they're like, "No way. No one could have survived that." It was like some parkour shit. You know when you see them leap from buildings and then just land and roll? Um, but yeah, getting back to your question, if it was first blood, then a cat could win versus a human quite quick. Um, I actually-
3. 7:42 – 22:22

   James’ Thoughts on the Vaccine

   1. CWChris Williamson7:42

   2. JSJames Smith7:42

      Uh, pretty miserable at the moment, where obviously we're only ever shown, like, the behind the scenes kind of highlight reels of what's actually going on there. So people are gonna be like, "Oh, we're down on the beach, sunny day, blue skies," or whatever. But for a lot of them, there's, they can't train, they've got no sport, they're confined to their houses. There are helicopters going round saying, "Go inside." Military have been deployed to Sydney to keep people inside. The fines have gone up to, like, £2,500.

   3. CWChris Williamson8:07

      I saw some bulleted list the other day saying that you can get huge fines for lying about your whereabouts, lying about contact tracing.

   4. JSJames Smith8:14

      Yeah. And there's, uh, even, uh, you're not allowed within a five kilometer radius of where you live. So even if you go to exercise and do some-

   5. CWChris Williamson8:20

      Not allowed outside of a five kilometer radius of where you live?

   6. JSJames Smith8:23

      Yeah. So, like, you-

   7. CWChris Williamson8:24

      Within a five kilometer radius would be very difficult because then you'd never be able to go home. You'd just have all of these different people, like, circling apar- apartment blocks.

   8. JSJames Smith8:32

      Yeah, they, they, they can do that, but, like, if you're going to, say, a, a shop, a Woolworths that's really far away, they'll go, "That's not within five kilometers where you live. That's not permitted." So it's very draconian, and it must be quite upsetting to know that you're 18, 19 months into a pandemic and you're effectively at day zero. I mean, the vaccine uptake is about 25% at the moment.

   9. CWChris Williamson8:54

      Why do you think that is?

   10. JSJames Smith8:56

       I think that Australia didn't feel enough pain from the pandemic, if I'm honest. I think that pain is one of the most powerful motivators, uh, to... You know, once you experience trauma and pai- pain, some people fold from it, but other people grow from it. And in the UK, there was so much pain, trauma, lockdown. The vaccination was, uh, you know, understandably the way out, and people took it. They didn't want to exist in-

   11. CWChris Williamson9:20

       Do you see the vaccine as folding or being, or growing from it?

   12. JSJames Smith9:25

       Uh, in what sense? What do you mean?

   13. CWChris Williamson9:26

       Well, you said that there's two ways that people respond to pain. One of them is folding, and one of them is growing. And you mentioned that the vaccine is one of the outcomes of that. Do you see the vaccine as somebody folding from the trauma or somebody growing from the pain?

   14. JSJames Smith9:37

       I actually think it's growing because it's a risk. People are saying, "Okay..." You know, it, even, I thought my perspective on the vaccine and the criticisms of it, I thought that gave us a position to be quite valiant with it. Hey, you've got something that you're saying is going to get me out of this. Everyone else is unsure, put it in my arm. And I mean, the people that participate in those trials, like, that is extraordinary, you know, nobility from people to go there and say, you know, "I don't care what you say, put that in my arm. We can get out of this pandemic." Half of them got a placebo. And I think it's very valiant, just the way that these communities have come together to go do it. I was nervous getting the vaccine because of the misinformation that is spre- is touted. And I'm, I'm rather evidence-based with my, my thinking, I believe, anyway. And I was still nervous going there, and I was looking at the sheet of potential side effects. And I'll never forget, I had a, a client in the gym, a very wealthy guy, and he was overworked, stressed. And his wife said to me, "You will never train my husband unless he has a heart attack." Then he has a scare. He comes in the next week, he goes, "Oh, I'd, I'd, I had a bit of a heart attack, I'm gonna start training-"

   15. CWChris Williamson10:43

       A bit of a heart attack?

   16. JSJames Smith10:44

       Bit of a heart attack, uh, or at least a bit of a scare. And, uh, he trained with me but he didn't really sort his life out. And as a consequence, he suffered Bell's palsy, where the side of his face collapsed. And, uh, he comes in, he goes, "I've got £2 million in my current account, but I can't fix this." And that resonated with me so much, that you can't buy your way out of... You know, poor health isn't always visible, but something like that, which can happen to healthy people, don't get me wrong. That was a m- you know, too random for that to happen. He was like, doctors weren't sure exactly what the causation was. But I was thinking, imagine if that had happened today. And he's about 50, 60, so he would have been vaccinated. 100% he's gonna go, "Look what the vaccine did to my face." And we've suddenly lost all logical thought processes surrounding bad things happening to people pre-vaccine. You know, Bell's palsy occurs, adults randomly die sometimes. Some of the stuff going on online of people having, like, seizures, this happened before vaccines exist. And then people go, "She was perfectly fit and healthy. She went and got the vaccine. Two weeks later, this is what's happening." And celebrities are sharing it, I'm seeing it, and I'm shitting myself. I'm, "Oh, no, my vaccine's booked in, in two days."

   17. CWChris Williamson11:55

       I've had friends who've had to go for therapy before they've got their vaccine. They've had to-

   18. JSJames Smith11:59

       Just-

   19. CWChris Williamson11:59

       ... go and sit down with a therapist so that they wouldn't be so nervous, they wouldn't have an anxiety attack going in to get it.But that's a, a really interesting narrative that no one, well, very few people have been talking about. Everyone that's been very anti-vaccine has seen themselves as standing up to the man, that this is the courageous, valiant thing to do. But what you highlighted there, there's something called the tragedy of the commons that you get with the free rider problem. So herd immunity is required for us to reach it in order for the economy to be opened back up. If the deaths and the cases were linked, the same as they'd been a year ago, the UK would still be in lockdown. The only reason that we're now back open is because the deaths have reduced. The reason that the deaths have reduced is because everybody's vaccinated. That's what's decoupled cases from mortality, because you get a lower infection load, so on and so forth. So you were totally correct. If you are someone that says, "Okay, I understand that in order to get this country back moving, in order to make other people who maybe can't get the vaccine to get their lives safe, I need to do something which I know has an associated risk with it, and I'm going to take on that cost." But what you get is this free rider problem, where the person who decides to just hold out and not get the vaccine, and not get the vaccine, and not get the vaccine, ends up benefiting from herd immunity just as much as the person who does, but they don't have to take on some of the potential risks that come associated with the side effects of it. So that free rider problem turns a lot of the narratives that people have had upside down. It's like, okay, so who's the valiant one? Like, if I'm scared of taking the vaccine, if I know that there are some potential health risks, the same ones that you do, but I'm prepared to go, "Okay, I'm going to stick this in my arm so that we can get the country back moving, so that we can get the economy back working, so that people who can't get the vaccine can actually feel a little bit more safe." Like, my cleaner, my cleaner can't get the vaccine because, uh, she's got some, uh, like, ongoing health concerns. So the only way that she could've come back to work in my house is if everybody in this house had got the vaccine. And I didn't just get it for the cleaner, but that's an example.

   20. JSJames Smith13:53

       There's also a lot of, uh, virtue signaling that's going on from people not getting the vaccine. (laughs) And you're like, "Whoa, you're not, you're not better than people because you've stood up to the man." But, um, in Australia, it's very interesting because when I left, Queensland, so like in Brisbane, Gold Coast, Noosa, had only experienced, I think, six or nine COVID deaths the entire pandemic, the whole time. New South Wales, maybe 200 the entire pandemic.

   21. CWChris Williamson14:21

       Crazy.

   22. JSJames Smith14:22

       We had 70, 80 days with no cases and transmission. So, like, we were like, "Oh, yeah, COVID..." You know, you, you wouldn't have any... The statistical chances of me getting COVID in Australia were so small because no one had it. There were no, uh, transmissions in the community. I actually got a really bad cold, um, when I got a really bad cold, I was like, "There's no way I'm getting tested," because if I get tested and it turns out I'm one of five million people that have got COVID, I'm done. I'll get canceled.

   23. CWChris Williamson14:50

       Out of the, out of the country, yeah.

   24. JSJames Smith14:52

       Yeah. (laughs) They'll be like, "James Smith, dirty COVID bastard."

   25. CWChris Williamson14:55

       (laughs)

   26. JSJames Smith14:55

       There's all this, like, shaming. Like, over here, you get tested, fine, it's normal. It's like, you know, anything, it's just like, "Oh, Dave's got COVID." "Oh, has he? I thought he had it already." In Australia, when I got the sniffles, I was like, "This best not be COVID." You know, and I, I joked around and said to people, like, "If chlamydia went away in two weeks, you'd never get tested. You'd just do your own thing, keep your dick in your pants, and you'll be fine," right? (laughs) And you, someone was like, "Did you get chlamydia?" "No, I didn't." (laughs) "Don't know what you're on about. You got it from someone else." And, um, so I think because of that, because the problem wasn't so severe, you didn't know anyone that had died of COVID in Australia, your friends, your family. Very rarely. Some people are going to go, "Oh, what about the old people?" I'm a 30-year-old that lives in Sydney. I don't know any 90-year-olds. My family are all in the UK. So there wasn't enough trauma of people to be motivated to do it. And the Premier of, uh, Queensland actually came out and said, "I'm not anti-vax, but so far, I think the AstraZeneca is causing blood clots in one in 10,000. If you put that across the population of Queensland, and the fact that we've only had six or nine deaths, statistically, we're going to have 20 more deaths from the vaccine than when we had COVID."

   27. CWChris Williamson15:59

       Fucking hell.

   28. JSJames Smith15:59

       And she was completely right.

   29. CWChris Williamson16:00

       Yeah.

   30. JSJames Smith16:01

       So you've got that as far as the political kind of problem. Australia is still aiming for a zero COVID, you know, country, which, ugh, it's very difficult with the variants, hotel quarantine, the draconian nature of that. Olympians coming back from Tokyo, if you live in South Australia, you've had to quarantine twice. Two weeks in Sydney, fly to Adelaide, and two weeks in South Australia. 28 fucking days. And now, am I mental here? Are we not in a position where we can get 100% COVID tests in a quarantine environment within a shorter period than 14 days? And some people are like, "Oh, but some people don't have symptoms until day 10 or whatever." Take a pint of my blood, right? Do what you need to do. But if you can determine I've not got it, let me the fuck out. (laughs) Do you know what I mean?
4. 22:22 – 41:49

   Dating in Modern Society

   1. CWChris Williamson22:22

      Another thing that I've been really fascinated by recently is sort of modern dating dynamics. Especially in the era of Love Island and Instagram and Tinder, relationships seem so interesting to me. Especially as women start to be more educated and outperform men in employment. What have you been thinking about to do with this? You noticed anything interesting?

   2. JSJames Smith22:43

      From a dating dynamic, um... Do you know what? It, I, I know you've had him on the podcast before, Jordan Peterson. The kind of insight that he has about intelligent women being harder to settle d- they're less inclined to get married because for a woman, it is often a prerequisite to have a, a husband who is more intelligent. That's what they would like and what they would seek. And the more intelligent a woman, the smaller the pool for potential partners, uh, as a counterpart. However, for men, they do not have that same prerequisite in the other direction, because they have this macho kind of, you know, sense of, uh, providing and looking after. Now, there are going to be some people that disagree with that, you're going to have outliers, but that's pretty much it.

   3. CWChris Williamson23:28

      On average.

   4. JSJames Smith23:29

      On average, yeah. So now that... You know, it, that's just something, a dynamic I never really thought about before. Uh, do you know what? Since we've last spoken, I actually read a book called Attached. Have you read this?

   5. CWChris Williamson23:39

      No.

   6. JSJames Smith23:40

      So my, one of my ex-girlfriends told me to read it, sure enough.

   7. CWChris Williamson23:44

      Fantastic.

   8. JSJames Smith23:44

      And I left it unread for a very long time. And one of my housemates, uh, had the physical hard copy. And when I got back, I said, "Right, okay, I'm gonna listen to it," and I listened to it, started running. And yeah, it's been criticized for not having enough categories. But you have secure, then you have avoidant, then you have anxious. So you got these three broad categories. And when the traits were explained, I knew straight away I was avoidant. Straight away. And I've, I've never felt like I've been spoken to in a book before. All my traits. And...Secure people aren't very omnipresent in the dating scene, 'cause they're in relationships, 'cause they're secure. So if you go onto a dating app, I've now come to realize the majority of people are either anxious or avoidant. Now, if I start chatting to an avoidant person, we're probably not even gonna kick off, because we're both avoidant. There's not enough there. Now, if I end up finding a secure person, often there's not enough fireworks, and you think they're quite boring, and you go straight past a partner that would've been a good idea. And I've now come to realize that a lot of people that I know that are in successful long-term relationships, the beginning of their relationship was never special. They were friends, or they went on a few dates, or they hung out, or they played on the same, they played at the same rugby club. And then over time, it's only month two, three, and four they realize how perfect they are for each other. Then you've got this poisonous avoidant and anxious connection, where if you put an avoidant and anxious person together, there's fireworks in the onset. And I've realized so many of my previous relationships, I've dated anxious women, and it's like two ends of a magnet that shouldn't be together. And I spot this now when I look at my friends. If an anxious person is feeling unloved, this is my understanding anyway, they partake in something called protesting behavior. And when they partake in protesting behavior, they cause an argument out of something that never had grounds for an argument, and they create this kind of protest because they want to feel loved by the other person. They need re-confirmation of the other person's love for them. But as an attached, uh, as an avoidant attachment style myself, when I see that protesting behavior, I distance myself from it. I'm like, "Whoa, you're acting a bit crazy." You know? I'm like, "Whatever, you know, what are you doing?" So the avoidant person becomes more detached. The anxious person becomes more crazy trying to get the reaction, and you kind of drift further apart, and then the avoidant person just disconnects, disconnects, disconnects, and the relationship goes to shit. And that is literally probably the last four serious relationships I've had. And I read this book, and I was like, "Oh shit, I've been dating the wrong type of pe-"

   9. CWChris Williamson26:10

      It was all, it was all here. Yeah, but people confuse the, that sort of flirtation and the little bit of energy at the start for a spark, right? That the, the fact that you have a little bit of friction that can cause heat. This person's interesting. They challenge me. There's something different about them. And then down the line, you think, well, this is fun for dating, but do I actually want to roll this into a long-term relationship with someone that we're constantly at each other's throats?

   10. JSJames Smith26:36

       It's a really difficult pill to swallow to realize that the onset of a relationship with someone who's not right for you is amazing, and then it dies out. And often the onset of a relationship where someone's amazing for you feels quite dull. And people, if they're in a, a stage of their life where they're dating, they might just cast them aside and move on to something that feels better. And a friend of mine called me this morning really angry about an a- like a disagreement it had with a girly thing, and I said, "You're," I said, "You're an anxious person. You're partaking in protesting behavior." And I said, "You haven't got the reaction you want from her, and now you're mad and venting to me." I go, "The fact you're speaking to me is 'cause you're so annoyed she hasn't given you the reaction you want." And I was like, "Fuck, I've read one book about dating, and I'm already now seeing things differently." You know like when the first time you find out about macros, protein, carbs, fat? It's like I look at things like that now, I'm like, "I see the code. I see the numbers coming." (laughs)

   11. CWChris Williamson27:31

       Yeah, the red pills, pu- pure red pill shit.

   12. JSJames Smith27:33

       Like, um, so that, that helped me understand a lot about myself really and the dating scene, where I am avoidant. And I have a theory that being successful in whatever line of work you do gives you a permi- a permit to be extra avoidant, because if something's not working out or there's an argument or I start distancing myself from someone because they're protesting or they're annoying or there's no compatibility, similar to yourself, we have work we can fall back on, a constant variable that's always there supporting us. And you're seeing someone right now, right?

   13. CWChris Williamson28:06

       Correct.

   14. JSJames Smith28:08

       Let's say she starts making your life hell. The demons occur in your head going, "Fuck you. If I get rid of you, I could do an extra podcast every day. I can develop my business, what I do, and my legacy if I eradicate you and replace it with work."

   15. CWChris Williamson28:22

       Well, there's a comfort zone there, right? There's always this fallback plan. There's always something there that you know that you've got going on. It's actually kind of like being in two relationships at once.

   16. JSJames Smith28:32

       It is. It is.

   17. CWChris Williamson28:33

       It's like being in a relationship with the person that you're seeing and also being in a relationship with your work and knowing that if that one starts to piss you off, that you've got something that you can put your love and your energy and your attention into, and you will get love and e- energy and attention back. And, um, yeah, I, I, I think that it makes for a very interesting dynamic when you have somebody that doesn't need the partner. And I suppose that a lot of attachment probably comes from a place of insecurity, and also if your ego gets hurt a little bit and you don't want to swallow that, you can just quite quickly, even if it's, even if it's not an insecurity, you can just think, "Well, fuck it, I'm just gonna focus on something that I actually can predict, because that was completely irresponsible of them to say."

   18. JSJames Smith29:19

       Yeah, and then you can, uh, such as myself, go and put out good content, make video, and you can get your almost addictive dopamine, serotonin hits from a digital device, which is fucked. Now I'm in a position where, you know, I could go cold shoulder on the person who's giving me grief. Where really in a relationship, arguments should be a time where, you know, a bit like training a muscle. You create damage, it comes back stronger, create damage, come back stronger, and you're progressively overloading. And that trauma that occurs is a part of the growing process. But it becomes so easy when you are, you know, successful in your own right, when you're working for yourself, let's say, actually, because that's probably the metric of success I'm using. So easy to just turn your way on that and go to the other relationship. And then you go, "Oh," and, and this is the dangerous assumption. You're like, "If I do that and make more money and get more successful, I can set up for my future life, my future wife, my future this." And having, talking about a utopian version of a future wife is a classic trait of an avoidant attachment style.And I was like, when I was that, I was, "Oh, fuck." Oh.

   19. CWChris Williamson30:25

       Wanting to move back to Australia, build the business, get the family, buy the dog, do the, this thing. They're all justifications for why you don't need to put up with difficulties in the now.

   20. JSJames Smith30:35

       And that is classic avoidance style and it, I thought that was just me, and then I realized that everyone has the same attachment styles, the exact same, and I was like, "Fuck." And I've actually used that sometimes to create distance between former lovers where I think, "Oh, my future wife ain't gonna act like that. She isn't gonna say that. She isn't gonna behave like that. Go on, get out of here." (laughs) You know what I mean? So I've realized that a lot of these kind of flaws that exist in my, in my thinking towards relationships is based on how I am, and that, apparently, is governed from how you're brought up. But you need to have variation in attachment styles as part of, like, evolutionary, kind of, traits. You need these kind of outliers who, if I, I always think as if I was a primitive human. I was like, "I'll be out killing wildebeest and shit, bringing back legs of meat and pillaging through all the women in the, in the camp." You know, (laughs) like, I- I probably would quite like to just go hunt on my own and I was like, "That's probably why I," you know, I like working on my own. I li- I, I'm very much an ambivert. I have my extrovert moments and my introvert moments. And, uh, in the digital age with social media, it's never been easier to be, you know, introverted and avoidant and still yet hit quotas and all the things that-

   21. CWChris Williamson31:50

       But you get to be extroverted on your own terms. You get to pick when it is that you do it. Um, this is one of the reasons why I love doing the podcast, that if I was ... Uh, I'm good buddies with Mike Thurston, uh, uh, as an example, and he's pretty much constantly vlogging. If he wants to put out two or three videos a week, he actually needs to capture quite a lot of content, needs to do shit. Like, he can't just sit down and have a conversation. He actually has to do shit. He has to go on a boat or go to the gym with Larry Wheels or fucking do whatever, buy a new car. So he has to do stuff and he's constantly on, always, (snaps fingers) always on. But that suits his personality type, 'cause he's sort of this quite gregarious, outgoing, sort of, like, dude who's super extroverted and always has buddies around him. But I'd be like, "Fuck, man. Like, I need..." So last week, I was in London and I did, uh, Rebel Wisdom on Wednesday, I did Loathe Deceit, his podcast, on Friday, I spent a full day with my buddy, Alex O'Connor, Cosmic Skeptic, uh, on another day, and then on Saturday, I did GB News. It's like I literally, for the first time in as long as I can remember, I spent four days and maybe, like, an hour a day waking was on my own, and the rest of the time was around other people. And I came back on Saturday night and I was completely wrecked. Like, this is ex- ... I mean, it was awesome and fun, but I needed that time to, sort of, rest and recuperate. And, um, yeah, designing your life and whatever your creative pursuits are and the job that you have and the, the, sort of, partner that you're with around, "Okay, where do I get my energy from? Do I have a partner who constantly needs me?" If I'm someone who actually enjoys their time on their own, then that's not going to work, 'cause I'm always gonna feel like they're pushing and they're being needy when I actually just require a bit of space.

   22. JSJames Smith33:28

       I think that reading that book and really thinking about what I'd learned, I've realized that the, the f- the real issue is that I've never communicated my requirements and needs to be on my own. And if I'd communicated that better when I had gone to that place and needing to be on my own, the partner I was with wouldn't have felt unloved, because they would have justification

   23. CWChris Williamson33:50

       Why it's happening.

   24. JSJames Smith33:52

       Yeah. So I think the next time I'm in that kind of place, I need to say to someone, "Hey, look, I need time on my own now and then." And do you know what? A lot of the times that my relationships have combusted is when I've spent too much time with people, trying to please them, you know, letting them stay around all the time 'cause it's convenient for their gym routine, letting them stay around because, you know, of whatever it is. And then I've realized that I've been neglecting my own attachment style in a bid to make someone else happy, and because of that, it's just blown the relationships up. And now, in retrospect, I can see that my most successful relationships are when my girlfriends live further from me. And I was like, "Fuck."

   25. CWChris Williamson34:28

       (laughs)

   26. JSJames Smith34:28

       I was like, "It's, I'm gonna need some fucking good therapy if I'm gonna move in with someone."

   27. CWChris Williamson34:32

       I know, man. Well, there's a few things that I've been reading about recently. One of them is the cohabitation effect, which you may be familiar with. If you live with somebody who you are intending on getting married with for more than six months before the marriage, there's a statistically significant increase in the chances of divorce. So most people, this goes against what most people would think, you move in together, you work out if you're compatible, and then you make the relationship down the line more likely to work. But there's something going on and there's a bunch of different theories. One of them is this open door policy. The presumption is that if you decide to live with somebody before you've committed to them legally and made it, uh, marriage material, you're basically saying, "You're good enough for now. You're good enough right now. But I'm not gonna commit just yet. We're living together, but I'm not gonna commit just yet." And that there's this, sort of, subtext that comes through and there's a whole bunch of other suggestions, but, um, that's one of them. Another one that I've read about is that in a relationship where the woman out-earns the man, there is a 50% increase in chances of divorce. There is also a 25% increase in the chances that the man needs to use, uh, Sildenafil or Viagra to perform in bed. And the fi-

   28. JSJames Smith35:47

       Oh.

   29. CWChris Williamson35:47

       ... the fi- (laughs) I know. And the final one was if you have a master's level education versus a bachelor's, there's a 93% increase in right swipes on Tinder.

   30. JSJames Smith35:57

       Really?
5. 41:49 – 58:52

   Guys Over 30 Without Kids

   1. CWChris Williamson41:49

      an interesting one. We were talking as well before we recorded about the interesting lack of a stereotype or an archetype for a young guy in his 30s who isn't married, doesn't yet have a family, but can't wait to be a dad. I'm fascinated by this. I think it's such an interesting time for men who perhaps have freedom and liberty to, to do what they want with their life. Maybe they've got more resources than they actually need. And from the outside, you look at those guys and it would be the Dan Bilzerians of the world. That's like the archetype of the guy in his 30s or 40s who's still sort of got it all. But I think both me and you agree, like I can't wait to be a dad. Like I actually cannot wait to become a father. I think I'm gonna be an awesome father. I think I would have sucked as a dad at 23, 24 years old. I would have been...... like just awful. Like there should be some sort of license that you need or, like, some sort of test that you have to pass and I would not have passed. Um-

   2. JSJames Smith42:46

      You have to fucking test to drive a car. Why can't you do it?

   3. CWChris Williamson42:49

      (laughs) It's the same to have a kid. Yeah.

   4. JSJames Smith42:50

      You're gonna do a lot more damage to the community with a family than you are with a car.

   5. CWChris Williamson42:53

      Correct. And, um, yeah, I just think it's, it's such an interesting sort of time to be alive where you've got these sort of dynamics, this sort of freedom and no archetype for a man. A- a woman hits 30 and everybody sort of starts side-eyeing her about, oh, sort of tick-tock, biological clock, "When are you gonna get married?" But for men it's like, "Oh, go on, mate, like you must be loving it still being free and liberty," and stuff like that. And you're like, "Well, kind of, but on the flip side I also want a family."

   6. JSJames Smith43:21

      Yeah. And, uh, I think there's another interesting statistic that I always keep in mind that the average guy marries a woman four years younger. The average woman marries a guy four years older, another Peterson one. I might... (laughs) I'm so glad I hadn't read his stuff before I wrote my book otherwise it would be so Peterson-leaning.

   7. CWChris Williamson43:37

      Yeah. (laughs)

   8. JSJames Smith43:38

      Um, but yeah, it's, it's so interesting you kind of say about that. And I did a psychedelic trip earlier on this year, and did some mushrooms, sat on the edge of a cliff in North Bondi and just thought about life, listened to some Hans Zimmer. And when you take psychedelics and a lot of your ego is stripped away, because I find that having a certain amount of money, certain amount of recognition, success in whatever fields really shrouds your vision from often your values that sit underneath it.

   9. CWChris Williamson44:04

      What actually matters, yeah.

   10. JSJames Smith44:05

       Yeah. And I was thinking, uh, strip that away, what have I really got? And I had this conversation with Paul Lima a few weeks ago where I said, I sat there, the first thing I thought about was this, I fucking love psychedelics, the first question that my mind put onto me was, "Do people like you for who you are or what you do?" And I had to sit with that, and I was like, "Well, if you took away everyone that likes me for what I do, how many people like me for who I am as a percentage?" Point fractions of a percent, right? And I was like, "Oh, that's quite a tough pill to swallow," sat with it for a few hours, went through the playlist. And then the second one was my family's biggest... if I was to say to my mom and dad, "What are you most proud of in life?" I think they would say me and my sister. Uh, no question about it. And I thought, "Huh, I've come through that door, the family house a lot of times in the last 10 years, and I'm sure they're chuffed to pieces with Sunday Times bestseller." You know, chuffed to pieces that you did this,you came back first class from Sydney. I was like... And actually I bought my dad a Porsche, I bought my family a Porsche earlier on this year. My, uh, my dad picked me up from the airport in a rented van and I was like, "We got to sort this out." (laughs) So, um, I went and I bought him a Porsche, and he was chuffed to pieces and he, he messages me on WhatsApp, he goes, "Son, I've never been so happy behind the wheel of a car." And I was like, "That makes me feel proud." But I reckon the day I come home with a wife and kids, that's when they're going to be like, "You've done it."

   11. CWChris Williamson45:31

       Made it.

   12. JSJames Smith45:32

       "You've done it." And I, I was sitting back with that and I was like, my parents are quite similar to me in the sense where they don't really care about flash items or, or big things, and my mom and dad don't travel. I can't even really take them on holiday, you know, even if I was to take them somewhere posh it would be, like, down the south coast in the UK, which you can't do in the pandemic so everything's booked. You know, they're, the happiest things for them in life is seeing my nephew, going to see my sister at work, going out for a Sunday roast or whatever. I was like, "Fuck, if I really want to impress the most important people in my life, I'm probably gonna have to have a family." And I was like, "Then fuck, what am, what am I doing?" If I was to, you know, look at a spider diagram of my life, there are some parts of it that are extremely successful, but other parts of it that are extremely lacking. And that psychological experience really got me thinking. And when I do talk to people a lot are, "Oh, mate, you must do so much shagging. Bet you get loads of birds." Um, hey, I'm actually trying to work and develop an area of my life that I'm lacking in.

   13. CWChris Williamson46:28

       (laughs)

   14. JSJames Smith46:29

       (laughs) And, like, I'm like, "I'm trying here. I'm trying." And, um, yeah, it, it's tough because you do get pulled in so many directions and your mind wanders and you're like, "Oh, maybe I do want that." And then part of your mind goes, "Maybe you don't. Maybe you're designed not to... maybe you're not going to get on with it." My track record of relationships is dire. Like-

   15. CWChris Williamson46:47

       Mine's not fantastic either, no.

   16. JSJames Smith46:50

       ... for some reason there's this illusion in my mind that I'm just going to meet the one and then, oh, everything changes. But is that probably an illusion? Is that a utopian desire? Is... You know, am, am I, am I so hardwired and programmed... I'm 32, my life revolves around my work, my routine and my training. It's going to take a lot of effort for me to change that up. And it's quite concerning. Like, we all just see our few years time with our family, wife and kids. There's a lot of work that needs to happen before that becomes a reality, and I think I'm quite negligent of giving enough mental attention to that amount of work required.

   17. CWChris Williamson47:30

       I think one of the challenges that everyone is going to have to come up against that's in that situation, you know, the, the PTs that are listening, the people that work for themselves, that run their own businesses, that do whatever, that feel liberated, you're going to have to concede that your performance at work will likely have to take a hit in order for you to have a family. Like there is a price for you to pay. You know, if you want to court the girl of your dreams, if you want to start the family, if you want to t- you're gonna have to take time off work. Like what happens... Vast majority of people, anyone that's read The E-Myth by Michael Gerber, like most people don't have a business, they have a highly leveraged solo pursuit. Like if they left their business for two weeks all hell would break loose. Like that means you don't have a business. It's just you, but you're just leveraged a little bit more and you're going to have to deal with that. You're going to have to deal with it existentially. You're going to have to deal with the ego. Like, "Okay, I'm not going to be able to post videos as frequently because I'm up at 4:00 in the morning looking after the kids or I've got to support the wife or we're in hospital in labor for fucking 48 hours or whatever the f- whatever goes on." Like these are things... these are prices that you need to pay and if you've attached such a sense of self-worth and you've wrapped your ego around your success, your externalities of your success-I wonder how many people without the right amount of self-work will end up low-key resenting their family for taking away from them something that they previously used to get a sense of fulfillment from.

   18. JSJames Smith48:58

       That's exactly the word I was about to bring in, is, I'm, uh, I'm, I'm worried about maybe a future self-resent, you know. "Oh, before this I did more, I had more, could afford more, had more freedom." But having freedom's taken away. We've had a lot of that in the last couple years. You know, this utopian desire of having a family, I'm like, "Oh," you know, c- could I flip a coin and be the other way around? I did a dangerous poll on Instagram once saying, "If you could go back and have kids, would you have?" And it was 50/50, 50% yes, 50% no. I was like, "Fuck." (laughs)

   19. CWChris Williamson49:30

       Thanks. Thanks for helping.

   20. JSJames Smith49:31

       (laughs) I was like shit the bed. I was like, "Maybe I'll just be a solo warrior my whole life." But, you know, uh, the funny thing is that we talk about Dan Bilzerian. In, uh, in my most recent ... I won't give it away too much. In my most recent talk, I differentiate pleasure and happiness. I think Dan Bilzerian fills his life with tremendously high amounts of pleasure to fulfill just a, a speck of happiness. Whereas, you know, other people have no fucking pleasure at all, their kids wake them up and they fucking resent their wife, they're fucking tired all the time, but they're happy. And, uh, there is going to have to be a trade-off at some point for a lot of people. I've, I've done PT seminars before where people will say to me like, "Oh, I wish I had what you had. I wish I had the free time, wish I had this." And I'm like, "You're married and you've got kids." They're like, "Yeah." I'm like, "Well, I've won some things, you've won others."

   21. CWChris Williamson50:24

       Yeah.

   22. JSJames Smith50:24

       I was like, "You probably wouldn't trade yours for mine. At this stage, I wouldn't trade mine for yours." None of us is a winner. There's no scale here. It's not like 100 grand in the bank equals the same pleasure as one kid (laughs) or whatever it is.

   23. CWChris Williamson50:35

       Well, that's the thing, man. Like, most people don't see the prices that you have to pay for success. And you said it earlier on, certain areas of your life have hypertrophied and other areas have sort of atrophied or maybe never even existed. And, um, yet you don't see, like ... I always use this example of Tiger Woods. Like, you don't know the price that Tiger Woods had to pay to be Tiger Woods. On the golf course, an absolute animal, perhaps one of the best ever. But I wouldn't take relationship advice from him. But I don't think that he's ... you know, he, he's got such low self-worth that he's been pulled over at the side of the road for falling asleep at the wheel, as he's on his medication. He recently rolled his car. I'm gonna guess that he probably wasn't fully sober when he did that, and that snapped both his legs. He spent nearly half a decade out of the sport because he's had injuries, 'cause he's pushed himself so hard, 'cause that's what was drilled into him by his father. All right, do you want that? Like, do you really want that? 'Cause everyone looks at him and thinks, "Oh, great, I'd love to be Tiger Woods, traveling the world, playing golf, night contract, all this money, adoration." Okay. Do you want to not be able to look yourself in the mirror? Do you want to not be able to love a wife? Do you want to not be able to stay faithful to one woman? Those are the prices that you have to pay. But because we applaud success and we put it on such a narrow domain, such a narrow channel, and we put it on such a high pedestal, you think, "Right, that's what I want," 'cause that's what everybody else seems to think is cool to want. So therefore everyone just starts mimetically copying whatever it is that's on the top of that. But the grass is always greener with this stuff. You know, me and you, two, two guys who could go anywhere in the world, could work from anywhere in the world, are both saying, "Ooh, isn't it interesting thinking about families? Like, wouldn't it be ... I wonder if I'm gonna be a good dad. Like, I wonder what sort of fucking, like, family SUV I'm going to b-" Like, do you know what I mean? Like, "What sort of stroller should we get?" And, um, the grass is fucking greener with this stuff. Like, to look at you and say, "You've got it sorted, mate," is just ... it's narrow-minded.

   24. JSJames Smith52:24

       It's also, uh ... here's a, a plus four Uno card. Uh, I'm adopted as well, so I've never seen or been with or touched a, a bloodline relative. So, if I have a kid, that is gonna be the only relative that's in my bloodline that I've ever seen.

   25. CWChris Williamson52:43

       That's crazy.

   26. JSJames Smith52:44

       Yeah. So, like, that's another really crazy, like, plot twist on that, where people look around at their family, they can see their features in their parents and their sisters and everything. Well, I've never had that. So, that's another kind of layer to it. And sometimes, uh, men right now are not in the best place they've ever been for fertility and for sperm count and for environments. Like, I'm pretty sure that as we go through the next 20, 30 years, where I think there'll be a natural decline of, uh, population due to the fact of women being more educated, contraception-

   27. CWChris Williamson53:18

       Yep.

   28. JSJames Smith53:19

       ... all of these things, more likely to be in professional work life. I think we're also seeing, uh, generations of less and less healthy men and more obesity, more lack of sunlight, all of these things. And I sometimes worry about fertility, you know. Like, it's a weird thing that when I'm 32, I got hit in the nuts in jujitsu the other day.

   29. CWChris Williamson53:39

       (laughs)

   30. JSJames Smith53:40

       I was like, I was like, "Fuck." I was like, "Don't do that again." I was like ...
6. 58:52 – 1:03:50

   Why James Loves Australia

   1. JSJames Smith58:52

      know that myself and probably thousands of British and Irish people in Australia are struggling with visa status and-

   2. CWChris Williamson59:01

      You don't even know if you're gonna be able to go back properly, right?

   3. JSJames Smith59:04

      Yeah, I'm, I'm in limbo at the moment. And for four years now, four years, which is over 10% of my life, I feel like a plane circling ready to land. That's how I've felt. Because I want to live in Australia, I do not want to live in the UK. I do not want to have a serious relationship in the UK, so that's another thing. So if someone here was like, "James, let's go on a date," I'd be like, "Wow, I, I really don't want this to work out." I've al- I've already decided in my head I don't want this to work. Uh, and then someone goes, "Oh, but if you like him you can take him to Australia," I'm like, "I can't get myself in," (laughs) you know? "If I can't get myself in, you're fucked." Uh, it could be another year before I even hear back from my decision on PR, which might not even be a yes. Takes me to 33. So there are so many British people and Irish people in, in Australia that aren't sure where they live. They- they- they go to bed in Australia but they have limited amounts of time before they might have to come back and... If you're the type of person like me that goes there and you go, "This is where I wanna be, home," nothing else really cuts it. People go, "Oh, you might like America." You're like, "Well I don't wanna live in America." "Oh, I'm sure you'll love it. The beaches are amazing in LA." You're like, "Yeah, but I don't want to live in LA." "Oh you should just go to Europe." You're like, "What, and have no friends and somewhere nice in Europe?" Like, so this whole kind of limbo at the moment, I'm not giving myself permission to be happy in the UK, 'cause it's not where I want to be.

   4. CWChris Williamson1:00:21

      Y- you do know that that is a very good coping mechanism though. That's a very, very good get out of jail free card that allows you to continue your avoidant behavior.

   5. JSJames Smith1:00:30

      Oh yeah, it's a classic trait of the avoidant. Um, for me as well-

   6. CWChris Williamson1:00:33

      Because it's justified, it's justified by something which genuinely exists. Like this is a, it's a compelling narrative, it genuinely is. But on top of that, it's a very convenient narrative for you given your particular attachment style.

   7. JSJames Smith1:00:47

      Oh yeah, yeah. I'm aware of that. But I would rather be wrong in Australia than right in the UK. (laughs) So like, uh, yeah, and, and, and to be fair like...... it, you're always in this constant battle where, like, I was hungover the other day. I go see my parents. I was like, "Oh, this is nice." But there's, and do you know what? I'd love to be wrong. I'd love to go to Oz, move there for three, four years, and go, "I had it wrong." I'd love to be wrong. I want to come home. But for the time being, for as far as quality of life, there, there's just like, I never appreciated how much I love blue skies. It sounds like such a weird thing. I'm sat here now, I'm looking at a gray sky. It's August. It's in the UK. It's freezing today, absolutely fucking freezing. And I've never ... Do you know what? I discovered a lot about my values in Australia, and how much I love wholesome activities. I-

   8. CWChris Williamson1:01:35

      Give me, give me some of your favorite wholesome activities.

   9. JSJames Smith1:01:38

      So like, uh, I would nap in the afternoon, which I do here, but then I'd have a cup of instant coffee, a bowl of cereal, and wait for my housemate, Cam, to come home and we'd go swim in the sea and go down. And I'm my happiest. It's cold in the sea. It's freezing.

   10. CWChris Williamson1:01:50

       Dog wagging its tail, yeah.

   11. JSJames Smith1:01:52

       Yeah, go jump in, piss about, like jumping through the waves, getting beaten up, come home, like in the morning, "Hey lads, 6:00 AM, summarize dips." No one can deny a summarized dip. The only thing getting in the way of a summarized dip is you not wanting to get out of bed, so then we'll just fucking pull you out of bed. Um, and like I lived in a budget house in Australia. My rent's like 200 pounds a week. I lived in a bit of a shithole part of Sydney, but I was happy. Whereas in London, I need to live somewhere nice. I'm living in Richmond, living on my own, living in a posh area, because I need to get my happiness from that because I'm not getting it from outside the house.

   12. CWChris Williamson1:02:28

       Have to compensate, yeah.

   13. JSJames Smith1:02:29

       Yeah, Richmond Park's lovely, but I don't want to be there. After I'm in there for an hour going for a jog, I'm like, "Right, I'm bored of this now. Get me home." I watch so much more TV here. Um, and like, although there's just so many kind of wholesome parts to me that are unfulfilled here, like I haven't swam in the sea now for like two months.

   14. CWChris Williamson1:02:45

       So here's something that I think a lot of entrepreneurs need to realize about being in the UK. If you are in the UK, if you're somewhere else that you just don't like where you live, one way to look at that is, "I am not being fulfilled externally in some of the ways that living somewhere better," quote unquote, "would, would facilitate me." But on the flip side, it's a forcing function that permits you to spend more time on work. Like, if you need to front load the amount of effort that you put into a business or growth or your skill development or whatever it is, living somewhere shit is actually a really good forcing function for that, because there are fewer things to distract you. Now, the argument would be, what is the end goal reason of you being good at the business? It's to have a life which makes me feel happy. So why not just shortcut it and live somewhere good in the first place? But there is also, I think that you would agree too, there is like a, there's an entry requirement, right? There's like a buy-in that you need to get. Like, you need to get to a minimum level of income and security with the business. And if you can front load the work that gets you to that more soon, this is one of the reasons. I really wanted to talk to you about, I know you, um,

7. 1:03:50 – 1:17:29

   Personal Finances & Property

   1. CWChris Williamson1:03:50

      are a little averse to buying property, that buying property is something that you're not a huge believer in. Um, and I was really interested to dig into that. What's your reasons for that?

   2. JSJames Smith1:04:00

      So first of all, uh, a lot of people can't really afford to buy houses. They can't. Majority of people can't afford to buy houses. Um, the majority of people in their 20s should be figuring out who they are and what they want to do, but instead they get, they get sidetracked. So they get into a job that pays 20K, then it pays 25, then it pays 30, and they're now working a job they don't really like for 30K. They then start eyeballing a house. They end up then buying a property, somewhere they don't want to live, with someone they probably don't want to spend the rest of their life with, so they can get a mortgage to appease their parents. They then remain working a job they don't like, to live in a house in a place they don't want to live, to afford a mortgage with a partner that they don't want to be with, and suddenly they're not only trapped by the partner, they're now trapped by their job. They can't just leave their job and go start a career. They can't go turn a hobby into a passion. They now have the pressure of, "If I break up with my partner, I'm going to have to take on the mortgage payments myself that I can't afford, because I'm not earning enough money to do so." So I think a lot of people are living in this existential fuck-up, where even if they do break up with their partner, they now need to sell the house, and any money they did make on the house has now got to go stamp duty, fees, fucking legal, all of this shit, right? I think a lot of people fall into that trap. Not everyone. But when I'm giving advice to people, it's to those people. You know, living an hour away from your fucking job. I've got friends now at the moment, I think they're fucking crazy. They're 32, and they're living with the parents of one of the couple, an hour and a quarter outside of London to save money for a house. I was like, "You guys are in the prime of your fucking life and you are living in the middle of fucking nowhere to save money. Why not just buy a house in a few years time when you can afford it? Why not just live near your fucking office, enjoy your life, you'll get promoted in a few years time, you'll be all right?" It breaks me that people are prioritizing the agreement on a bit of paper over their life. Because at the end of the day, buying a property is just changing the belief system in who that property belongs to. If I buy the property I'm in right now, nothing really changes. I still sit here, I still pay money out each week, I still sleep on that sofa, go upstairs into a bed. But for me to buy this, I need to give up one and a half million pounds or step into debt for the rest of fucking my mad old life until I pay it off. For me, if I had one and a half million pounds to go, "Yeah, I'll just buy this." Cool, I'll just buy it, it'd be worth a bit more in a bit of time. And when I go to Australia, I probably will buy something, because I've got money that I'm not using. That makes sense. But for people to... You know, in your 20s, my mom and dad never ever said to me to get a mortgage. This is why I stand like this. Like, go enjoy yourself. They said, actually, you know, "Buy a..." My mom and dad still haven't paid off their mortgage. But they said, "When we die, we'll leave you some money, you can put it down and buy a house."Don't worry about it. Enjoy your 20s. I enjoyed my fucking 20s. I played rugby in New Zealand. I went to Thailand on two weeks notice. I went to Australia at 27. I lived the best life ever, and living my best life put me in a position to follow my passion. And now because of that, I'll probably buy a house outright, and it won't sting when I buy it. I won't need a partner forced into that position to help me buy it either. People go, "Renting is a waste." Renting is not waste. Renting is freedom. Renting is deciding you wanna fucking move next week. Fine. Renting is not worrying about mortgage payments. Renting is not staying with a partner that you don't want to be with just to fucking cover the costs. You pay the price whichever way you go. And for me, I love the idea that I might go, "I'm going to America tomorrow if the border's open." I don't want to worry about having to fill it, tenants, tenants calling me at 4:00 in the morning when I'm in America, "James, the boiler's gone." "Oh, fucking hell, let me get someone out." There are different people out there that want different things. If you wanna buy a house, you're just gonna ignore what I'm saying. But for a lot of people, there are way better things to be doing in your 20s than saving for a house. And if you do what you want in your 20s, you might just have the money to buy one outright in your 30s, or even your 40s.

   3. CWChris Williamson1:08:11

      There's a start in the happiness hypothesis by Jonathan Haidt that says the single biggest determinant of happiness or the single tightest correlation that he could find was the commute to work. So the longer that your commute to work, the lower your life happiness. That was the tightest correlation that he was able to find throughout his entire research in a book on happiness. So I, I, I think that you are right when people buy houses for the wrong reasons. Um, I would posit that for people at the lower end of the income bracket and people at the absolute top end of the income bracket, renting for both of those people makes sense. But for people who are in the middle, who are, they're going to be able to make maybe 10,000 pounds plus per year over the top of what they need to live so that they would be able to save that, for me, there's no better place for you to put your money, because you're going to turn cash into an asset that is going to generate money over time. So the house that I'm in right now, I have two other housemates that live in this with me, and they pay the mortgage, the electricity, the water, the rates, the tax, the cleaner, the internet. And you go, okay, so now I live rent-free. So I live rent-free, plus all of the money that was going into rent goes into bricks and mortar, and that's equity that's owned by me, and all I've done is rinsed and repeated that. So I've just bought house number five, which is completing this week, and it's just buy-to-let. Find 35 grand-ish, put it into a three-bed house that generates about 800 and something pounds a month, and you go again, and you go again, and you go again, and over time that compounds. So I understand that for somebody that really wants freedom and doesn't have the cash that sits over the top of that in order to, um, give them the, the extra leeway that they need, that that would be a bad piece of advice. If you have tons and tons of money, then fuck it, it doesn't matter, because you don't need the extra income afforded by letting properties or by assisting yourself to reduce your living costs. But for somebody that sits in that middle bracket, I actually think that it's a really smart potential. Now this being said, you need to do it in a city where you're able to buy properties where the yield is sufficiently okay. London is not this place. The amount of money that you need to put down on a property versus the amount of money it's going to earn you back in terms of your rent is essentially pointless. Like, you might even lose money on that property. But outside of that, somewhere like Newcastle, somewhere up north, I think it's a, it's a good potential.

Episode duration: 1:24:44