Elon Musk, Texas & Men Leaving College - Zack Telander | Modern Wisdom Podcast 372

1. 0:00 – 1:19

   Intro

   1. ZTZack Telander0:00

      When Tinder came out, boy was that shit fun. I was in college that year. It was so fun. And now we're in this period where it's like, okay, now the rubber's hitting the road and we're trying to navigate what it does to the human mind to have that many people say that they're interested in you. And when I mean that many, I mean like 50 to 100 on one app. Whether you're a girl looking for a guy, guy looking for a girl. What does that do to one's psyche? Do we know what it does? Do we understand it yet or are we still in this loading screen? Are we still kind of just determining where we go from here?

   2. CWChris Williamson0:35

      Zachy boy, how are you?

   3. ZTZack Telander0:37

      I'm good, man. I'm excited to be back.

   4. CWChris Williamson0:40

      I know.

   5. ZTZack Telander0:40

      How long's it been? A year?

   6. CWChris Williamson0:42

      Year and a half, dude. Yeah.

   7. ZTZack Telander0:43

      A year and a half. Wow.

   8. CWChris Williamson0:45

      Fucking crazy.

   9. ZTZack Telander0:46

      Yeah, really crazy. Things have happened since then, huh?

   10. CWChris Williamson0:50

       You've moved.

   11. ZTZack Telander0:51

       Were we in pandemic mode? (laughs)

   12. CWChris Williamson0:54

       Yeah.

   13. ZTZack Telander0:54

       Then?

   14. CWChris Williamson0:54

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so-

   15. ZTZack Telander0:55

       Okay.

   16. CWChris Williamson0:55

       ... that, that thing hasn't changed.

   17. ZTZack Telander0:57

       Oh, okay, so that's, that's the standard.

   18. CWChris Williamson0:59

       Constant throughout, yeah.

   19. ZTZack Telander1:01

       Uh, yeah, I've moved. I've moved to Austin where everyone seems to be moving, um, you know, me, Joe Rogan, Lex Fridman. We're all boys now.

   20. CWChris Williamson1:10

       All the big ones.

   21. ZTZack Telander1:11

       Yeah, no, I don't... Um, I was here before them, so I can just-

   22. CWChris Williamson1:15

       (laughs)

   23. ZTZack Telander1:15

       That's all I'm gonna say.

   24. CWChris Williamson1:16

       (laughs)

   25. ZTZack Telander1:17

       Right?

   26. CWChris Williamson1:17

       What was that Elon Musk thing that you

2. 1:19 – 8:48

   Elon Musk’s Silence

   1. CWChris Williamson1:19

      tweeted me the other day?

   2. ZTZack Telander1:22

      Uh, so this is an interesting one, 'cause yeah, this is an Austinite, right? Elon Musk coming here, um-

   3. CWChris Williamson1:27

      Another one of your boys.

   4. ZTZack Telander1:29

      Yeah, another one of my boys. He's part of my posse. Uh, so I saw some, some blue check mark Twitter guy was like, um, "Next time you go car shopping and are looking at a shiny new Tesla, remember that this motherfucker so many people thought was so cool will not stand up for a single woman in Texas after having just moved his company there." Uh, and then he quotes, "I would prefer to stay out of politics." So this is, this is Elon Musk's qu- uh, quote, or his tweet. "In general, I believe government should rarely impose its will upon the people, and when doing so, should aspire to maximize their cumulative happiness. That said, I would prefer to stay out of politics." So, (laughs) so the reason I sent that to you is because that to me is... It's a very interesting one. What is your moral obligation, um, to say something, uh, even though you don't want to? Are you a good person for saying something? Are you a bad person for not saying something? Um, are you even allowed to not say anything at all? And it, uh, it like really messes with my head, right? It's like at what level does saying something matter? You know, 10,000 followers, 50,000 followers? What does that mean? And so that's something that I, I, like, I would like to talk through because I d- I, I still haven't formulated a, a real opinion on the matter.

   5. CWChris Williamson2:59

      The maddest thing is that that guy got angry.

   6. ZTZack Telander3:00

      (clears throat)

   7. CWChris Williamson3:00

      Like, from Elon, that is demonstrably the most polite, balanced-

   8. ZTZack Telander3:05

      Right?

   9. CWChris Williamson3:06

      ... tweet ever.

   10. ZTZack Telander3:07

       (laughs)

   11. CWChris Williamson3:08

       You can't, you cannot be more balanced than that. It's so nice. It's like, "Look-"

   12. ZTZack Telander3:12

       But-

   13. CWChris Williamson3:12

       "... I really don't want the government to get into people's business. If they do get in people's business, they should try and make them happy. That being said, I'm not a politician." And you're like-

   14. ZTZack Telander3:21

       Okay, s-

   15. CWChris Williamson3:22

       "... look at this man flying, flying cars to Mars."

   16. ZTZack Telander3:24

       (laughs)

   17. CWChris Williamson3:24

       "How dare he not step into our politic..." This is why fucking everything's politics now, man.

   18. ZTZack Telander3:29

       I know, so, so, so I'm not fucking insane when I s- when I say like, "Wow, that sounded really, really mild." You know? That sounded like really, really mild. I don't know, uh, if I could be outraged at someone saying something so goddamn mild. It's interesting. It's like, well, he didn't say exactly what I wanted him to say when I wanted him to say it. Now, what if he just didn't make a tweet? Was, was he required to make a tweet or something? Okay.

   19. CWChris Williamson3:59

       No, oh no, he w- wasn't required to make a tweet at all but the, the, the-

   20. ZTZack Telander4:02

       So then the... So what, what if he didn't say anything at all? He would probably end up getting asked in a press conference or something. I, I don't... It's really, really weird. This is very, very, very strange.

   21. CWChris Williamson4:14

       You, it's an interesting-

   22. ZTZack Telander4:15

       If-

   23. CWChris Williamson4:15

       ... question, right? Like, what requirement do you have as a person of influence to weigh in on a conversation that you don't care about? So I asked someone this question the other day about Joe Rogan. Is it Joe Rogan's responsibility to, let's say that he doesn't care about COVID, let's say he doesn't give a shit about COVID, um, is it Joe Rogan's responsibility to have conversations about it simply because he has a platform that allows him to reach a lot of people? Is it Elon Musk's responsibility because he has a large platform and he's an influential person to talk about... I, I think this was in response to Texas's abortion law, right?

   24. ZTZack Telander4:52

       Yes.

   25. CWChris Williamson4:53

       Um-

   26. ZTZack Telander4:53

       So I have an answer for this. Well, it depends on what side they're gonna take. Okay? It depends on if Elon Musk is, uh, you know, for abortion, well, he probably shouldn't have spoken up. But if he, uh, you know, is... Or sorry, sorry, if he is for the six-week ban on a- on abortions, um, well then he probably should have shut up, right? But if he has any inkling of, uh, you know, dissent from Greg Abbott and his decision, then yes, he needs to speak up. Right? Well, it... This is, by the way, this is not my, uh, I, I don't, I'm not swaying either way, I'm just saying it's like-

   27. CWChris Williamson5:33

       What, are you not committing, Zach?

   28. ZTZack Telander5:35

       ... part of it part-

   29. CWChris Williamson5:35

       Are you not committing? Are you not having an opinion? This is being a fucking conservative.

   30. ZTZack Telander5:39

       Right, but see if it, if it's not your opinion then it, then it-
3. 8:48 – 26:21

   Texas Abortion Law Reactions

   1. CWChris Williamson8:48

      Texas abortion law, which for anyone that doesn't know is a law which outlaws abortion after six weeks. And anybody that is caught assisting somebody, that can even be like the Uber driver that drives them to the Planned Parenthood place, can be fined up to $10,000. Did you see that leaders of The Satanic Temple aren't just outraged with Texas' strict new abortion law? They say it's also a matter of religion. Did you see this?

   2. ZTZack Telander9:10

      No.

   3. CWChris Williamson9:10

      Okay.

   4. ZTZack Telander9:10

      No, I have not seen this.

   5. CWChris Williamson9:11

      So leaders of The Satanic Temple consistent with all our tenets that call for bodily autonomy and acting in accordance with the best scientific evidence, The Satanic Temple based in Salem religiously objects to many of the restrictions that state have enacted that interfere with abortion access, the religious group's website says. Temple officials are also taking matters into their own hands. Lucien Greaves, uh, The Satanic Temple's co-founder and spokesperson said, "The Temple has sent a letter to the US Food and Drug Administration citing religious freedom to seek the ability to provide its members with abortion pharmaceuticals as part of," and I quote, "its satanic abortion ritual within the first 24 weeks of pregnancy." I thought first off that this was, like, some... You get pregnant and then you ha-

   6. ZTZack Telander9:58

      (laughs) I'm sorry, are we normaliz- are we normalizing Satanism? Is that where we're at?

   7. CWChris Williamson10:02

      It's only normal. Apparently they've got half a million, uh, subscribing members in, uh-

   8. ZTZack Telander10:06

      Great.

   9. CWChris Williamson10:06

      ... which is more subs than me and you have got. Uh-

   10. ZTZack Telander10:08

       But see, it... I'm sure someone will find a way to slander my name for saying that, "Hey, maybe, maybe being a Satanist isn't that great of a thing. Maybe, you know, maybe Satanism isn't, uh, a, uh, uh, a good route to go down."

   11. CWChris Williamson10:28

       Wow. They are managing to get-

   12. ZTZack Telander10:29

       I don't-

   13. CWChris Williamson10:29

       ... religious freedom here. So to qualify for abortion-

   14. ZTZack Telander10:32

       (laughs)

   15. CWChris Williamson10:32

       Th- this is the thing, where I thought-

   16. ZTZack Telander10:33

       No. No. G- okay, yeah. Keep going. Go.

   17. CWChris Williamson10:35

       So I, I thought that what they did was it was some like really, really evil thing where people would get pregnant and then they'd like celebrate killing the baby. It turns out it's not that. It turns out it's even we- it's kind of weirder than that. What they do, they deliver abortion pharmaceuticals. So they, they actually deliver it so that you go through The Satanic Temple, you get clearance from a medical professional.

   18. ZTZack Telander11:02

       Yeah.

   19. CWChris Williamson11:03

       Uh, and then the, the... It goes to the American College of Obstet- Obstetricians and Gynecologists, uh, and then this is a quote from that guy who said, "So it wouldn't really be any different if to... If they just went to a practitioner and got it directly from them, it's just we would be the ones distributing it." So, like, they, they do multiple things. Not only do you go to them-

   20. ZTZack Telander11:22

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson11:23

       ... to worship Satan, but you can also have you, have your abortion.

   22. ZTZack Telander11:27

       But see, at what point does being a Satanist really mean being a Satanist? Uh, you know, a lot of times people will be like, "Hey, you know, you're... You worship the devil." And then maybe a Satanist back to them would be like, "No, actually we focus on the main tenets of..." And they wouldn't even say the word Satan. They would... It has to do with choice and all this stuff, when all of a sudden it's evolving into another religion in and of itself. You know, at, at a certain point, regardless of whether they believe one thing or another, it is a pretty nice virtue signal for a Satanist, you know, whatever the Satanist...... group is to announce that they are providing, uh, abortions or abortion-

   23. CWChris Williamson12:15

       It depends on what side of the aisle you're on. If you're, if you're trying to get the-

   24. ZTZack Telander12:17

       Right.

   25. CWChris Williamson12:17

       ... Conser- if you're trying to get the conservatives to be all

   26. ZTZack Telander12:19

       ... well, yeah, but you'll never get the conservatives when you're, when your group is called a Satanist. But, you know, there's, I'm sure there's a lot of people on board with the Satanism, Satanists now. And I cannot believe this is our conversation.

   27. CWChris Williamson12:32

       This is. Wait-

   28. ZTZack Telander12:33

       I cannot-

   29. CWChris Williamson12:33

       ... I haven't finished.

   30. ZTZack Telander12:33

       ... believe it.
4. 26:21 – 41:12

   The Wild-West of Social Media

   1. CWChris Williamson26:21

      So, I, I don't do, I'm on, I'm on TikTok, technically. I'm on TikTok. But-

   2. ZTZack Telander26:26

      Right.

   3. CWChris Williamson26:26

      ... the guy that looks after my social media posts for me on TikTok, so I don't, I don't have to log in.

   4. ZTZack Telander26:31

      Oh, you got a social media guy.

   5. CWChris Williamson26:32

      Oh, yeah, of course.

   6. ZTZack Telander26:33

      Oh, yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson26:33

      That's a s- little humble flex for you there.

   8. ZTZack Telander26:36

      (laughs)

   9. CWChris Williamson26:36

      So, m- m- what's interesting, right? I got involved in TikTok drama, apparently, um, 'cause I posted a video about the friend zone not existing, uh-

   10. ZTZack Telander26:45

       Oh, yeah.

   11. CWChris Williamson26:46

       ... and people got upset. But I didn't know that it was happening, and then I got, like, a notification saying, "Hey man, like, just FYI, one of these videos has sort of caught a little bit of fire." And it had like 100,000 views or whatever, and some, some people were upset. But I remember noticing the fact that all of this shit was going on because of something I actually said. Like I genuinely did say, and I s- still stand by it, that men overestimate the attraction that women have to them, and women underestimate the attraction that men have to them. Which means that the friend zone for one person isn't the same as the friend zone for another. In speed dating self-reports of relative attraction, men presume that the woman is more attracted to them than she reports-

   12. ZTZack Telander27:26

       Yeah.

   13. CWChris Williamson27:26

       ... and women presume that the man is less attracted. So, when you talk about the friend zone, if you're a man and a woman talking about that, you're talking past each other, because the worlds that each of you inhabit is basically different. Right?

   14. ZTZack Telander27:37

       Yeah. Yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson27:38

       People get upset. Uh, here's the fucking takeaway. Drama happened and I wasn't involved, so I kind of watched it unfold, and was like, "Ha, how silly. Like, drama that I don't care about, because it's just on this silly little app." I was like, "Oh, wait. That's all of the drama that I've been involved in for the last s- 15 years."

   16. ZTZack Telander28:00

       Right.

   17. CWChris Williamson28:00

       The difference is-

   18. ZTZack Telander28:01

       Right, and you-

   19. CWChris Williamson28:01

       ... that I've cared about these platforms-

   20. ZTZack Telander28:03

       (laughs)

   21. CWChris Williamson28:03

       ... and I don't care about that one.

   22. ZTZack Telander28:04

       Yes. Yes.

   23. CWChris Williamson28:05

       Fuck.

   24. ZTZack Telander28:06

       I, I, I totally, I, I, as a very casual TikToker, very, very casual TikToker, I made one that went semi-viral. I don't know how many views or likes or whatever it has at this point. I made it for fun. And, uh, like, woke up the next morning and it was going, going pretty crazy. And I was like, "Wow, this is so cute. Look at this little thing go." You know? And I realized, like, why would I not give legitimacy to this stupid app, and then give legitimacy to a- anything else? You know, they're all owned by some, you know, asshole at the top that can shut it all down at any point. And like, the (laughs) , it's so funny, man. Like, the TikTok space, it's just gonna turn into everything else. I think there, I think we're still in this, like, Wild West, uh, phase of TikTok, and maybe there was a Wild West phase of Instagram, and that's, I think that's ending literally as we speak. Um, and there's a Wild West of Reddit, and I'm sure that's gonna be shut down pretty soon. Uh, but I think-

   25. CWChris Williamson29:15

       What do you think happens? What's the difference between when it's a Wild West and when it's not?

   26. ZTZack Telander29:18

       Well, when it's a Wild West thing, it's like people are still trying to navigate it. So, it's like, you don't... You see some pretty crazy stuff. You see some stuff that maybe you shouldn't see. You post things you shouldn't post. Um, it's kinda great actually. You really get to see people for who they are and who, and you know, and what they comment. I, on, on Instagram, I just said... I love saying sarcastic shit to my friends, like making fun of them. Like, if someone was like, "What if I do this?" Blah, blah, blah. I go, "Well, it's 'cause you're a fucking pussy and you should work harder." Totally a joke. One of my friends, they understand that's sarcastic. Boom. Immediately I was silenced on Instagram for that comment. I've been reported for harassment and bullying. But not reported, I think the algorithm took that. You can't make a funny fucking comment anymore to your friend?

   27. CWChris Williamson30:13

       Meanwhile, on TikTok, there's girls encouraging other ones to go and do anorexia-

   28. ZTZack Telander30:17

       Oh.

   29. CWChris Williamson30:17

       ... as fucking diet regimes.

   30. ZTZack Telander30:19

       Right. But the, but the TikTok algorithm now is, is starting to suppress everything. I mean, I, I was, um...... one of my other TikToks did really, really well. It was me reading, uh, this guy's DM to, uh, to another guy as, it was like a shit talk. A UFC fighter.
5. 41:12 – 48:36

   Joe Rogan Suing CNN

   1. CWChris Williamson41:12

      similar. Did you see that Rogan is talking about suing CNN for saying-

   2. ZTZack Telander41:17

      Yes.

   3. CWChris Williamson41:17

      ... that he was using, uh, what was it? Horse dewormer, ivermectin.

   4. ZTZack Telander41:21

      Okay, but it- okay, but listen. He went like this. He- he- he literally went like this. "Should I fucking s- should I fucking sue CNN, dude?" Like, kinda like that. Very in passing. That just goes to show how powerful that dude's voice is. He opened the show talking about the dewormer thing and he goes, "Shit, should I sue, uh, CNN?" And, like, I don't know, I- I don't know how serious that was.

   5. CWChris Williamson41:46

      I don't think it's very serious at all, but-

   6. ZTZack Telander41:48

      No, f- but- but, um, b- basically, it- it's really funny because I did see, you know, Philip DeFranco, you know Philip DeFranco? He's a, you know, big YouTuber, kind of like a news guy. And he's just like, "I'm so sick of..." He- he goes crazy. He goes crazy on Joe Rogan. And what's funny is-

   7. CWChris Williamson42:10

      What does he say?

   8. ZTZack Telander42:10

      ... if, I mean, he went- he went nuts. He was like, "I'm so sick and tired of the same shit," uh, you know, like, uh, you know, Joe Rogan not pushing the vaccine, and- and giving misinformation, and all this stuff. Anyway, it sounded weird because it's like, did you even watch the full video that Rogan had made? Again, it was so non-Politically charged. It was so nice, it was so hopeful, he had a smile on his face, he was in his back fucking yard. He was, he was like, "Look, we did everything we could. We, we, we sent ev-" I mean-

   9. CWChris Williamson42:47

      Threw the kitchen sink at it, we had.

   10. ZTZack Telander42:49

       Threw the kitchen sink at it. "I, you know, I had ivermectin as well. I had this, this, and this. I rested up, I stayed h- and I feel great. And I'm just really happy to be here and I'm..." All this shit. And everyone took that. And Phil DeFranco himself took that and was like, "Look at this fucking piece of shit." I, I'm sorry, if you were to take someone who had just never interacted with the world, just an alien, and brought them down here, and they watched someone say what they, what they had said, they would have been like, "Oh, that's completely inconsequential, and I just don't give a shit because it was just so mild." And then they walk away.

   11. CWChris Williamson43:24

       Is it not the same people that are saying, "Joe Rogan shouldn't have put this weird stuff in his body because it's a bad virtue signal to everyone else," that are also saying, "My body, my choice," with regards to the Texas abortion law?

   12. ZTZack Telander43:37

       So, so wait, say that one more time?

   13. CWChris Williamson43:39

       People are complaining about the fact that Rogan's-

   14. ZTZack Telander43:41

       Yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson43:41

       ... used experimental drugs on himself.

   16. ZTZack Telander43:42

       Right.

   17. CWChris Williamson43:43

       He is in a position of influence and other people-

   18. ZTZack Telander43:45

       Right.

   19. CWChris Williamson43:45

       ... may decide to do the same thing, that also say abortion shouldn't be restricted down to six weeks, my body, my choice.

   20. ZTZack Telander43:54

       Well, see-

   21. CWChris Williamson43:54

       Rogan's body-

   22. ZTZack Telander43:55

       ... Rog-

   23. CWChris Williamson43:55

       ... Rogan's choice, that doesn't work.

   24. ZTZack Telander43:57

       Ah. Interesting. You've thought about that one, huh?

   25. CWChris Williamson44:02

       J- Well, just then.

   26. ZTZack Telander44:02

       Or did that just come to your-

   27. CWChris Williamson44:03

       Just then.

   28. ZTZack Telander44:03

       Just, just came to your mind?

   29. CWChris Williamson44:04

       Yep.

   30. ZTZack Telander44:05

       Oh, man. You're good at this. You're a pro. So yeah, I mean, that's the, al- always the cool- the funniest thing is, y- if you're, if you're saying, "Listen, I don't wanna wear a mask. I don't wanna take a vaccine if I don't have to," you better be saying, you know, "You can get an abortion if you want. Um, because it's your body, your choice. It's my body, my choice. Vaccine or not, whatever." And, uh, that is a very, very interesting point, you know?
6. 48:36 – 1:03:05

   Impact of Education for Men

   1. CWChris Williamson48:36

      I looked at this Wall Street Journal article about the declining college rates for men. Have you seen this floating around?

   2. ZTZack Telander48:41

      ... no.

   3. CWChris Williamson48:42

      Dude, this article's-

   4. ZTZack Telander48:43

      Please go on.

   5. CWChris Williamson48:43

      This article's fucking scary. So I've known this for quite a while, but it's really just starting to hit mainstream media. And one of the reasons that it's probably not too popular amongst mainstream media is that it goes counter to a narrative that men are outperforming women, and there's this oppressive patriarchal construct that's misogynistically trying to keep people down-

   6. ZTZack Telander49:00

      Right.

   7. CWChris Williamson49:00

      ... blah, blah, blah.

   8. ZTZack Telander49:01

      Are people still on that? Are people still on that kick?

   9. CWChris Williamson49:03

      Massively, massively so.

   10. ZTZack Telander49:04

       Okay, okay.

   11. CWChris Williamson49:04

       "The number of men enrolled at two- and four-year colleges has fallen behind women by record levels in a widening education gap across the US. Men are abandoning higher education in such numbers that they will now trail female college students by record levels. At the close of the 2020-2021 academic year, women made up 59.5% of college students, an all-time high, and men 40.5%, according to enrollment data from the National Student Clearing House, a nonprofit research group in the US. Colleges and universities had 1.5 million fewer students compared with five years ago, and men accounted for 71% of that decline."

   12. ZTZack Telander49:41

       Wow.

   13. CWChris Williamson49:41

       "In the next few years, two women will earn a college degree for every man. American colleges have yet to reach consensus on what might slow the retreat of men from higher education."

   14. ZTZack Telander49:53

       (sighs) I think people are... (laughs) This could go a number of ways, this discussion, and I, this is actually, this is critical to where we are, you know, in society as a whole. How valuable is an education, and what about being a man would, would provide a man to say, "This isn't as valuable," you know, as opposed to a woman? What about their psychology is saying that or allowing that to happen? And then also, in what way will the media suppress this, you know, if the-

   15. CWChris Williamson50:35

       I'm not convinced this is-

   16. ZTZack Telander50:35

       ... if the narrative is-

   17. CWChris Williamson50:36

       So I'm not convinced that the media can really suppress the stats. Like, you can, i- i- in, within 10 years, as you walk around on campus, you're going to see double the number of women as you do men. I don't know the equivalent for the UK, but in the US, that's going to be the case. Like, there's n- it's not about suppressing the stats. Like, there is no suppressing that. Some of the reasons that you could put forward for why this may have occurred is that there has been quite a negative environment for men, generally, in the universities. Um, quite rightly, women have had to have their spaces be made to feel better. The Me Too movement was, like, fucking long overdue to call powerful men to account for taking advantage of women.

   18. ZTZack Telander51:14

       Yeah.

   19. CWChris Williamson51:14

       Um, but what it's done is it's taken quite a broad brush and applied that to all men, when the research suggests that it's a small minority of men that commit almost all of the sexual offenses. This is what David Buss discovered, a evolutionary psychologist that I had on the show, that the vast majority of men aren't sexual predators, but a small number of men commit fucking tons of acts. But if you tar everybody with a, quite a broad brush, if you make it a little bit of a hostile environment in which men feel quite uncomfortable, then that's not so good. You've also got, like, the equivalent of affirmative ac- affirmative action programs that promote girls' success within high school and within college applications. I'm not sure if you have outright sort of gender discrimination when it comes to accepting into courses. I would imagine no, uh, but I think it's significantly harder for boys to get through school if you are someone that's more physically minded, if you're someone who's got ADHD. But previously, there was so much prestige and status associated with an education-

   20. ZTZack Telander52:16

       Right.

   21. CWChris Williamson52:16

       ... that you would be able to, you would be prepared to go through that. There's a lot of discomfort associated with me sitting on my ass and fucking having to learn all of this stuff, and I wanna be outside playing or play fighting or building something or doing whatever. But I'll get through it because the college is gonna be worth it. And, um, yeah, now 2:1 females to males within the next 10 years at college.

   22. ZTZack Telander52:34

       That is crazy, 2:1?

   23. CWChris Williamson52:36

       Yeah, fucking

   24. NANarrator52:37

       2:1.

   25. ZTZack Telander52:37

       At every college? Here's the thing, um, and I think I might have talked about this on the, the last podcast that I did with you a year and a half ago, but colleges in America, and for those who are listening in the UK, in the rest of the world, colleges in America are unlike anything you've ever fucking seen before.

   26. CWChris Williamson52:56

       What do you mean?

   27. ZTZack Telander52:57

       And all you have to do is go to a collegiate football game to understand exactly what I'm saying. They make millions of dollars off ticket sales per game. They make over, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars from an- anything from, like, selling apparel to food. TV rights, millions of dollars. Uh, all of this in, as a way, you know, think about it like countries, the, what they do for the Olympics to kind of flex their prowess without actually having to go to war. This is what colleges are doing. And if you don't-

   28. CWChris Williamson53:36

       To show that prestige?

   29. ZTZack Telander53:37

       Yes. Yes. And it is a war. It is an all-out motherfucking war. And there's a s- a, a conference called the SEC, which is the Southeast Conference, and that one is the most powerful one, uh, as far as money. I- it's ridiculous.

   30. CWChris Williamson53:53

       What's this got to do with men and women in college?
7. 1:03:05 – 1:09:22

   Evolution of Online Dating

   1. ZTZack Telander1:03:05

   2. CWChris Williamson1:03:06

      Fucked.

   3. ZTZack Telander1:03:06

      It's, it's very, very fucked. And I think that just online dating is ... Again, we're at a period now, it's like the loading screen for online dating. You know, there's the wild, wild west, which I love that term. When Tinder came out, boy was that shit fun. I was in college that year. It was so fun.

   4. CWChris Williamson1:03:31

      Dude, I remember-

   5. ZTZack Telander1:03:32

      No one really understood it.

   6. CWChris Williamson1:03:33

      I remember being on Tinder and running out of swipes in the middle of a city. That's how few people were on the app.

   7. ZTZack Telander1:03:40

      Yeah. Yeah. That, it wasn't because you actually ran out of swipes. It was because, like-

   8. CWChris Williamson1:03:45

      There wasn't enough users.

   9. ZTZack Telander1:03:46

      There was no one less.

   10. CWChris Williamson1:03:47

       Yeah.

   11. ZTZack Telander1:03:47

       Right. And that was fun, dude. That was really fun. And now we're in this period where it's like, okay, now the rubber's hitting the road, uh, so to speak. And we're trying to navigate what it does to the human mind to have that many people say that they're interested in you. And when I mean that ma- many, I mean like 50 to 100 on one app. Whether you're a girl looking for a guy, guy looking for a girl.

   12. CWChris Williamson1:04:17

       So guys don't get that many swipes typically. On average, most guys-

   13. ZTZack Telander1:04:20

       Right.

   14. CWChris Williamson1:04:20

       ... get almost no swipes.

   15. ZTZack Telander1:04:23

       Almost, you mean almost no, like, matches?

   16. CWChris Williamson1:04:25

       Correct. Yes.

   17. ZTZack Telander1:04:27

       Yeah. So, so what happens though if like, if a girl or a guy has four or five even, five or six, seven, eight, nine, ten. I think if you do it long enough, there's, there's a chance that you can get up to ten, I would say. I know women have hundreds. I know they do. I've seen women have shown me their apps and it's just like zzz, zzz, zzz, zzz, zzz, and it just goes on. What is that, what does that do to one's psyche? Do we know what it does? Do we understand it yet or are we still in this loading screen? Are we still kind of just determining where we go from here?

   18. CWChris Williamson1:05:06

       50% of couples last year met online.

   19. ZTZack Telander1:05:10

       Right. And that number's gonna keep going up.

   20. CWChris Williamson1:05:12

       50% of couples-

   21. ZTZack Telander1:05:12

       You know that number-

   22. CWChris Williamson1:05:13

       ... met online.

   23. ZTZack Telander1:05:15

       You know that, uh, you know that number's gonna go up next year. It'll be 60%. Right? Are we capable, is our brains capable of understanding 50 different people and determining which mate suits us? I don't think we are. I don't think we ... Just being exposed to this many people is so weird. I think we talked about this. Maybe we have talked about it in passing 'cause you and I talk a lot. But the fact that we are exposed to so many interactions on a personal level. So if someone comments, "Man, this video is awesome, Chris. You make great content. Seriously, I think you're a great guy." Let's say there's hundreds of those on a, on a, one video, which by the way is possible and it has happened for you. That amount of positive interactions is not okay for the human psyche. It's not. Okay? Because what does that do to your ego? And then as soon as someone says something negative, what does that do to your ego? You know, how, how ill-equipped is your ego to take on one negative thing because you get hundreds of positive things a day? Now, take that into the date, dating space. You have 100 matches. What does that say about how you're going to interact with a potential mate in the future? What are you going to do when, you know, someone is actually suited for you in real life, but in the, in your pocket you have 100 other suitors? I don't know if we're, we're ready for that.

   24. CWChris Williamson1:06:54

       No. No, we're not, in short. We're not. Humans aren't designed to fucking consume the entire world's news in real time 24 hours a day. Of course we're fucking not. Like all of this hypernormal stimuli just fucks everybody up.But it's here to stay. So this is the thing, like, for a long time, I got really irritated. I still am. I, I, I feel bad about my phone use even if it's half an hour a day, because I usually, in retrospect, don't enjoy the time that I spent on my phone. I wish I'd spent it in a different way. And for a while, I remember sort of f- fighting against it and thinking about how I could make the world a different place. And now, it's more like, "Okay, this is here to stay. How can I accommodate the things that are happening?"

   25. ZTZack Telander1:07:35

       Yeah.

   26. CWChris Williamson1:07:35

       "How can I accommodate this technology into my life? How can I have rules and procedures and values and virtues that keep me right around this?" It's like, it's like walking down the street, like, being someone that is potentially a heroin addict walking down the street and having to actively avoid needles. Like, that's kind of the situation-

   27. ZTZack Telander1:07:57

       Right.

   28. CWChris Williamson1:07:57

       ... that we're in, because-

   29. ZTZack Telander1:07:58

       Yeah.

   30. CWChris Williamson1:07:59

       ... in our evolutionary ancestry, it would have been very, very useful to have got more information. Information was quite scarce. There was maybe 100 people in your tribe, m- 70 of whom were actually fucking useful and interesting. So, what we did, there's a guy that was on Sam Harris's show, and he talks about the fact that we're information foragers. So he says that we were constantly on the lookout for information. In the same way that a squirrel forages for food, we forage for information. And typically, information would have been super fucking scarce. Like, if you've ever spent an amount of time around people without any distractions, or phone, or connection to the outside world, and it's a small number of people, after a while, you kind of, unless they are interesting people, you kind of run out of stuff to say. And you're like-
8. 1:09:22 – 1:10:24

   Where to Find Zack

   1. CWChris Williamson1:09:22

      people go if they want to check out your stuff?

   2. ZTZack Telander1:09:26

      Uh, go to my YouTube channel, just my name, Zach Tellender. Also, go o- on, uh, my Instagram, coach_zt. Uh, I have a Patreon, and there you can find weight lifting programs and general strength programs for super cheap. What else? That's probably it. That's it. That's it.

   3. CWChris Williamson1:09:46

      I love it, man.

   4. ZTZack Telander1:09:46

      Oh, I have a, I have a subreddit now.

   5. CWChris Williamson1:09:48

      That's sick.

   6. ZTZack Telander1:09:49

      Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson1:09:50

      That's fucking sick.

   8. ZTZack Telander1:09:50

      So I've got a subreddit. I've got, like, uh, I think, like, 1,500 people on there.

   9. CWChris Williamson1:09:53

      Yeah, that's awesome.

   10. ZTZack Telander1:09:55

       Yeah. So if you, if you go there too, there's a bunch of incels talking about weightlifting. No, they're good people.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:10:00

       They're good people.

   12. ZTZack Telander1:10:00

       I really like them. Yeah.

   13. CWChris Williamson1:10:02

       I love it, man. Cheers.

   14. ZTZack Telander1:10:04

       Thanks for having me.

   15. CWChris Williamson1:10:05

       Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that, then press here for a selection of the best clips from the podcast over the last few months. And don't forget to subscribe. It makes me very happy indeed. Peace.

Episode duration: 1:10:25