EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,225 words- 0:00 – 2:03
Episode 200 kickoff: chaotic banter, Kermit cameos, and the Q&A format
- YUYusef
I, for some reason, was wearing swimming shorts to go to the gym, and they have a fly that's just, like, a flap so there's no zip. And I was going commando, and it was only when I got back into the changing room having finished my-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- YUYusef
... session that I realized I'd, like, just ... (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
The old chap had popped out. Johnny, hacks for when you are craving all the chocolate.
- YUYusef
Tuna.
- CWChris Williamson
Tuna? (laughs)
- YUYusef
Tuna. (laughs)
- JOJonny
What side hustles do you each have? Like, having a side hustle just suggests that the main hustle is insufficient.
- CWChris Williamson
You've done that thing again where you've put Kermit the Frog behind you, haven't you?
- YUYusef
Is he behind me again?
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- YUYusef
Every, whenever I'm recording, he just, uh, I think he must live in the bathroom. He must've ... Oh, God, right.
- CWChris Williamson
You've done it.
- YUYusef
Let's get rid of him.
- CWChris Williamson
You've done it again, where-
- YUYusef
I just want to make it into the trailer.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, for fuck sake. It's episode 200. Woo!
- YUYusef
Two hundy.
- CWChris Williamson
200. As if it's been 200 episodes of this podcast, man.
- JOJonny
How many hours have you spoken on a podcast, Chris, now?
- CWChris Williamson
At least 300 probably.
- JOJonny
Probably closer to 400, isn't it?
- CWChris Williamson
Maybe not. Maybe, maybe th- probably about bang on three, I guess.
- JOJonny
I'm thinking, like, if you have a, the, the edited file is the trimmed down version all the time, isn't it? Or is it not for you?
- CWChris Williamson
Never, and I, I never, never touch it, man. Never play around with it. But then-
- JOJonny
It's full bore.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Neat, neat.
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
It's, it's the equivalent of ordering a steak blue.
- JOJonny
Straight no frills. No filters.
- 2:03 – 5:09
How the show is edited (or not), and when episodes get cut or scrapped
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Yeah, for them. Um, where should we start with? Well, there's, there's one. How much editing do you do? Do you ever cut out parts of the conversation from Jennifer Lonz? Never ever cut the episode. The only times that that happens is if there's a connection dropout or if someone says something libelous that's like-
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... like a litigating nightmare, um, which essentially doesn't happen. I just don't want to get ...
- JOJonny
W- what would be an example? You don't have to say what it is, but what, what could someone say on a podcast where someone might get a bit, a bit litigious?
- CWChris Williamson
If someone, if someone, if someone doxed someone, if someone said where someone lived or-
- JOJonny
Ah, okay.
- CWChris Williamson
... where someone worked or, uh, like a celebrity's real name or something like that, like the email address or website that someone, like, works out of or whatever it might be.
- YUYusef
Have you ever ditched an episode entirely?
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, so in 200 episodes, I've got rid of five. Uh, added another one to the list the other week, um, which-
- YUYusef
(laughs) So-
- CWChris Williamson
It's pretty, pretty fucking good, like, a, a two percent failure rate.
- YUYusef
We've ditched two out of, out of 250.
- CWChris Williamson
That's good, man.
- JOJonny
I only know what one of those is.
- YUYusef
They, they were just to spare the, the guest.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- YUYusef
'Cause they just don't think the guest came across very well, so they're like-
- CWChris Williamson
It's the same as mine. It's, it's always like, this just isn't going to add much to the audience. You gotta have faith that they're going to enjoy whatever you put out. But yeah, that was, uh, that was good. Right. You got, you got one? You got a top, top question? Good one?
- YUYusef
Let's have a look. So (clears throat) let's ignore Team Garricks. Sorry, team. That's one for the Propain one. Um, Lil Mac Daddy says, "What are the best and worst experiences you've had and what changed your lives positively?"
- CWChris Williamson
Jesus Christ.
- YUYusef
Yeah, I know. It's a bit of a-
- JOJonny
Big question that, isn't it?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JOJonny
Big old question. Best and worst experiences?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, these really are existential, aren't they?
- JOJonny
Should we let that one marinade?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, let's let that one marinade. I've got one here that says, "Does your tash tickle?" Uh, by Sarah Jane Chamberlain one. And-
- YUYusef
Your left or your right tash tickle?
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Nice. Nice. (laughs)
- 5:09 – 7:12
Speeding tickets, speed-awareness courses, and accidental ‘life hacks’
- YUYusef
This is a parking penalty notice. Not parking, speeding.
- CWChris Williamson
I bet that you're going to somehow say it was the fault of the-
- JOJonny
It was your fault.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- YUYusef
No, it was my fault. Like, it, it was a 34 in a 30 zone.
- CWChris Williamson
Speed awareness.
- JOJonny
Oh.
- YUYusef
Speed- I'm gonna do speed awareness. Waste of a day, but-
- JOJonny
Hate speed awareness, man.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh yeah, it's very circular.
- JOJonny
Ask yourself the question, is your, is a day of your life worth 100 pounds, yes or no?
- YUYusef
That's the thing, isn't it? But it's the, I've been advised because of the premium-
- CWChris Williamson
Insurance.
- YUYusef
... to just, yeah.
- JOJonny
I think you still have to declare it.
- CWChris Williamson
You don't.
- YUYusef
Apparently, you no longer need to.
- CWChris Williamson
You don't declare that you've done a speed awareness course.
- JOJonny
That's the risk you're willing to take.
- CWChris Williamson
I did. So I did declare that I'd done that thing as like I'd put down 30 miles an hour and then put in the notes, "Speed awareness," and it turned out I'd been paying higher premiums for two years when I didn't need to. So there's a life hack for you. If you've-... been popped for speeding, done the speed awareness course, it doesn't go on your insurance document. However, that is not legal advice and we are not your solicitor.
- JOJonny
We are not lawyers.
- CWChris Williamson
We are not.
- JOJonny
When I went on one, there was a guy at the front who just, was just a contrarian, who just answered the, obviously the wrong question. And when someone does that, they have to circle back round over the material and cover it again. So like-
- YUYusef
Is that 'cause he was just not getting it or he was trying to be a willy-
- JOJonny
I think part, part of it was, like, they a- they asked a question and everyone in the room, apart from one guy, had submitted an, their answer. And they were like... 'Cause it's all anonymized. And this guy at the front went like ... and then just pressed the wrong button. So it was like, "I understand. I understand that speeding can be dangerous." 19 out of 20 people, "Yes, I understand." One person, "No, I don't agree," like...
- YUYusef
Just making the day slower for everyone.
- CWChris Williamson
Here we go, like here we go.
- JOJonny
Fucking A, aren't we?
- YUYusef
(laughs)
- JOJonny
That's what you gotta look forward to, man. You'll, you'll create some stuff.
- 7:12 – 7:42
Chris’s origin story: club promoting to running events (and ‘controlled falling’)
- CWChris Williamson
That would be, that would also be quite, quite enjoyable. Um, Mike O'Keefe, how you got into club promoting/running events. So, I was skint during the, (laughs) just after freshers week, and I sat down next to my then would-be business partner in my first ever seminar and we, uh... I, I just said, "Mate, I've spent all my money in freshers week." And he said, "Oh, I used to work for this company in Leeds. You should come to this thing. I can get a, get you a job flyering." Started flyering, we were flyering partners, then became, like,
- 7:42 – 13:21
Nihilism, what podcasting teaches, and why podcasts ‘convert’ not ‘traffic’
- CWChris Williamson
hall managers, then event managers, then junior event, then senior event, then, uh, got my first franchise when I was 19, in between first and second year, and that was Carnage. And it kind of has just been controlled falling down a big set of stairs, uh, from then. So that's kind of how it's done. We got another one here from Mikey, Ma- mckaylag5, "How can I get rid of my nihilism?"
- JOJonny
Wow.
- YUYusef
Well, it's a nihilistic question to want to get rid of your nihilism.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- YUYusef
Maybe just embrace it.
- JOJonny
Is it? I think it's quite proactive and, and, uh-
- YUYusef
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Listen to, listen to episode 189 between me and Kyle Eschenroeder, uh, working out what do you want to want in life. That will help to get rid of nihilism. What have you learned from podcasting? Fest, Festim96. Fucking hell. What have you guys learned within the last month from our podcast?
- JOJonny
Um, it's probably the best way to communicate with an audience, I think. I think it's... 'Cause people listen to podcasting when they are, like, doing something otherwise quite manual and want something interesting or ent- entertaining, and so, like, you usually have quite a bit of their attention. So it's a, it's a communication platform, yeah.
- YUYusef
It's long form content that they would never otherwise consume.
- JOJonny
Mm-hmm.
- YUYusef
And, and so Johnny said the other day that podcast is a conversion tool rather than a traffic tool, and I'm really coming round to that idea. That people-
- CWChris Williamson
What does that mean?
- YUYusef
That people see podcasting as a surrogate for having friends, and it's a way to really build a relationship with someone who's already in your audience, but because it's not a very social platform, it's not something that's immediately shareable. It's really for people who are already aware of you, but want to go into the deepest.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, it's, it's challenging to grow an audience on a podcast because it... Naturally, there's no virality, the short form stuff doesn't... There's no trending on, like, Apple Podcasts or on Spotify or whatever.
- JOJonny
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Which inevitably makes it hard. But yeah, you're right, the depth of connection that you end up getting with people. I mean, that latent leverage thing that you guys see whenever we... Whenever you guys come on, you always get tons of people that want to start working with you because they buy into the effort that you've put in coming on to the show and this sort of stuff. And then the launch of that email list the other week for me was exactly the same. You've got this latent leverage that's been in there. Um...
- JOJonny
It's the only thing that, like, of anything we do, it's the only thing where people will, like, when you speak to them, they remember something you said on a podcast, like, 100 episodes ago. They remember, like, a private joke or a comment you made.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JOJonny
And you don't get, we don't get that on any other content method.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JOJonny
So I think it does just... It's a way of almost, as Yusuf says, like, you build, you build friendships with people almost virtually, or, like, people know a lot about you, and you know nothing about them.
- CWChris Williamson
That's a, that's a scary thing, man.
- JOJonny
Mm-hmm.
- YUYusef
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
There's such an asymmetry-
- JOJonny
They are huge.
- CWChris Williamson
... which, which, like, kind of makes you feel a bit guilty. You're kind of a bit like, "Well, I... Can you please record 300 hours of content and send it to me so that I can then be as up to date on you as you are on me? Then let's move forward."
- JOJonny
Mm-hmm.
- YUYusef
So it happens a lot with my flatmate where I'll say something and he'll be like, "Oh, yeah, I know." And I've gone, "But I'm not telling you this..." And he was like, "Oh, no, it was on episode 127 of the Modern Wisdom-"
- 13:21 – 18:28
Favorite episodes and best moments: batteries, laptop bags, and behind-the-camera chaos
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, top three favorite podcasts you've recorded. Um, with you guys, I think the How to Survive University episode is wildly underrated.
- YUYusef
That was a banger.
- CWChris Williamson
So good.
- JOJonny
Though I cannot remember anything of what I said on that episode.
- CWChris Williamson
You c-
- JOJonny
At all.
- CWChris Williamson
Do you know what the advantage is? It's all recorded and it's on the internet.
- JOJonny
I just gotta listen to it, don't I?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. (laughs)
- JOJonny
Oh, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Just jog your memory.
- JOJonny
Brilliant. You don't even need to remember anything, do you? Used to do loads of podcasts.
- CWChris Williamson
Always.
- JOJonny
Always.
- CWChris Williamson
Like that Connor Murphy guy, just live stream your life and then you'll never need to remember what you did.
- JOJonny
Well read, already. Yeah, if you forget where you put something, doesn't matter.
- CWChris Williamson
Just go back to when you last had it on the live stream-
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... put it up. Um, yeah, How to, How to Survive University. We've done ... Here's one thing I've been thinking. I feel like we blew our load pretty early on a lot of mint topics. Like the Relationship Series 101 and 104 was great. How to Survive University was great. Our Confidence episode that me and you did, Yusuf, when Johnny was on holiday was episode 13, and it was amazing.
- YUYusef
Yeah, that was an old one.
- CWChris Williamson
Amazing episode, just two of us. But now it's like orders of magnitude, like a thousand times more people listen. And so if you're listening and you're thinking, "Oh, all of this sounds quite good. I, I could do with a little bit more Johnny and Yusuf," there's fucking tons in the back catalog. So get into the, get into the 20s and the 30s and the 40s and crack, crack some of them out.
- YUYusef
I mean, to be honest, if you want more Johnny and Yusuf, like we do have our own podcast as well with-
- CWChris Williamson
Yes.
- JOJonny
Podcasts.
- YUYusef
... 250 episodes. Podcasts, true.
- CWChris Williamson
Podcasts.
- YUYusef
One fitness, one business.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Yes.
- YUYusef
Podcasts.
- CWChris Williamson
How, um-
- 18:28 – 21:11
Big lesson from 200 episodes: authenticity + ‘top 5% of several things’ synergy
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, amazing name. Uh, what else we got? What is your biggest lesson from 200 podcasts? (sighs) Jesus. Um, your competitive advantage is determined by being authentic to who you truly are. No one can beat you at being you, basically. The, the closer that you are to being whatever is most, comes most naturally ... Yeah, you need to make yourself better and augment your existing capacities, but your particular, um, amalgamation of life experiences and traumas and predispositions and where you were brought up and the fact you're an only child or someone that's Arab or someone that's got a 300 kilo deadlift or, you know what I mean?
- YUYusef
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
All of those things. Like, but they are, they genuinely are, the uniqueness that you have, that is your competitive advantage. So I think that's, that's a fairly big one. How-
- YUYusef
So that, that's a big lesson from, um, The 4 Hour, The 4-Hour Chef as well, where he talks about if you're gonna be in the top 1% of anything, or the top naught point one percent of anything to be able to have this competitive advantage, that requires such a disproportionate amount of effort. But actually, if instead, you're in the top 5% of four things, you've got this intersection where you're this unique combination and you don't have to compete with anyone because it's a total blue ocean.
- CWChris Williamson
So I like that. The only problem is that a lot of the time, it's hard. Many ... diluting yourself across multiple different domains that don't enhance each other actually ends up-
- YUYusef
That, that's the key.
- CWChris Williamson
... spreading yourself too thin.
- YUYusef
So they have to be things that do, like, have a, some kind of- so-
- CWChris Williamson
That you could do desserts and patisserie and cocktails and food, as opposed to-
- YUYusef
Well, so, yeah. And, like, getting to the top 5% is, you know, 80% of the work in then getting to the final ... Oh sorry, it's 20% of the work, and getting the final 1% is-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- YUYusef
... 80% remaining. Whereas, like, getting to the top, like, getting published papers in Nature, and, like, going hard in, like, academia, or hard in, like, competitive swimming or something like that-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- YUYusef
... it's such a grind, and it's requiring-
- CWChris Williamson
It's like-
- YUYusef
... much more sacrifice.
- JOJonny
I think, I, I, I agree with both of you, that easier to get in the top 5%, but there's an example of, like, if you, Yusuf, were a top 5% pastry chef, and you were also, like, a doctor and had all these other things, like, the fact that you're a pastry chef doesn't really help anything. Like, all of the other things don't help with pastry chef.
- YUYusef
What, what I'm talking about this in terms of is, like, SEO, Facebook ads, content marketing.
- JOJonny
Oh, I see. Right.
- YUYusef
And then if you become, like, a full stack entrepreneur-
- JOJonny
Mm.
- YUYusef
... you're gonna have much more synergy than if you just become, like, an absolute beast at SEO and nothing else.
- JOJonny
Yeah. Fair, fair enough.
- 21:11 – 27:53
Start before you’re ready: being bad at first, gear minimalism, and the radio-hosting meltdown story
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, "How did you start your podcasts and what is your purpose in the long run?" Uh ...
- JOJonny
Just one second.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JOJonny
My lesson.
- CWChris Williamson
Yes.
- JOJonny
You didn't ask us the question.
- CWChris Williamson
Sorry.
- JOJonny
I had a lesson all ready to go.
- CWChris Williamson
Hit me.
- JOJonny
And now it's kinda, now everyone's like, "Oh fuck, I bet good Johnny's got a really good point here and it's average."
- CWChris Williamson
Bet, bet it's gonna be good, yeah. Bet it's gonna be good.
- JOJonny
Um, just that we speak to a lot of people who, like, don't start something because they think they're gonna be shit at it. And I think, like, go and look at, go and listen to ... In fact, they, they may not even be on the internet anymore 'cause they were so bad, but our first podcasts are horrendous.
- YUYusef
We've taken them off.
- JOJonny
Have we taken them off?
- CWChris Williamson
How bad they were?
- YUYusef
Or they've been blocked off.
- JOJonny
It was really shit, yeah. Like, done on, like, an old MacBook-
- YUYusef
True. Yeah.
- JOJonny
... microphone. Um, on a, like, Skype. I mean, he uses Skype to, to do these sorts of episodes. And then, uh, and, like, no editing or anything like that. And then go and watch Chris, Chris's first podcast appearance on our podcast called ChrisFit. Is it called ChrisFit? Is that-
- CWChris Williamson
The Levina one.
- YUYusef
Yeah, in the office.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JOJonny
Mm-hmm. And then compare Chris on that episode to Chris now. And people are like, "Oh, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not gonna start a podcast," or, "I really want to do a YouTube channel but I can't because I'm shit. I really wanna do" whatever, "but I'll be shit. I'm not as good as the people who've done 200 episodes." We're like, "Obviously not." Like, there's no way to get better at something like this without just accepting that you are going to be really bad at it-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JOJonny
... in the very beginning.
- CWChris Williamson
That's a really fantastic takeaway. And the other thing as well is that, like, if you're, if you're waiting until you feel like you're ready, you're gonna be waiting forever. I know it's a bit of a cliché, like, Instagram quote thing, but it, it is the truth. Um, and if it's something that you think that you're gonna enjoy, you're not gonna lose anything by trying it in any case, right?
- JOJonny
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Um ...
- JOJonny
And we, and we say this all the time, like, it can either be, in a year's time, you can either have moved your fitness business online and have learned lessons as a result of that, or in a year's time still be thinking, "Wouldn't it be a good idea to move my fitness business online?" Like, which is better in those situations?
- YUYusef
Absolutely. And, like, the, the market is the best form of feedback as well. So even if you put stuff out there and you don't think it's great, if it takes off, you're obviously doing something right. And if it doesn't, you're gonna get feedback as to what is the better way to go about this.
- 27:53 – 33:01
Movies/docs, ‘AirPods Pro’ investigations, and reducing phone usage via friction
- CWChris Williamson
An entire tech team behind huge radio stations can also do it. Uh, we have so many to do and we're already half an hour in. Right, let's, let's go, let's go a little bit more quick fire. I'd be interested to know your best movie and documentary recommendations, so a movie and a documentary you've watched recently that you've enjoyed. Uh, one I've enjoyed is The Staircase on Netflix. I was telling you guys about it last night over dinner. Pretty good. Uh, and movie, favorite movie of all time is Interstellar, just fucking epic and so good. Johnny.
- JOJonny
What question is this?
- CWChris Williamson
The Pistorius one.
- JOJonny
Yeah, his documentary, that's pretty good. Yeah, um, favorite movie recently would be The Gentlemen by Guy Ritchie. Tremendous film. Not very serious. I always say Fight Club to that, but that's become, like, the thing to say, isn't it? I feel like people say Fight Club and they don't really know why, it's just because Brad Pitt's really lean in it and it's got Ed Norton, and so I'll say Fight Club.
- CWChris Williamson
Do you think as well, like, after a little bit of time, it, it diminishit- diminishing returns because you've watched it so much and you almost fall out of love with it? After 10 times of watching anything, it's just not that good anymore.
- JOJonny
Yeah, I- I've tried rewatching Fight Club in the past, like, couple of years, and it's, it doesn't, I don't get anything out of it at all, which is a real shame. But yeah, Oscar Pistorius on Amazon. Excuse me, And The Gentlemen.
- CWChris Williamson
Cool. Seth?
- YUYusef
I've seen about three films in my life, and one of them is Fight Club. So-
- JOJonny
The other one's Interstellar.
- YUYusef
So I'm not the one... I've seen Interstellar actually. It was on a first date, um, and it was with someone who actually also wasn't into films, but we both thought that that was, like, the thing that you're supposed to do is like, "Oh, we go to a film." And we both just like-
- CWChris Williamson
To a three-hour sci-fi epic.
- JOJonny
It was talking about, like, spacetime and, like, some big, pretty big topics.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Yeah, it was-
- JOJonny
Like, big, big themes. (laughs) Another film, actually, Parasite, the one I g- I told you guys about.
- CWChris Williamson
Korean.
- JOJonny
The one that's subtitled.
- YUYusef
Oh, that's, that's on my list.
- JOJonny
Whoa, whoa. Lift that box up again. What-
- CWChris Williamson
What box?
- JOJonny
It, it looked like you picked up an AirPods Pro box.
- CWChris Williamson
It did look exactly like that.
- YUYusef
No, it's just my wired ones.
- JOJonny
What did you just have in your hand? Circle back around. What did, you just had, you had something in your hand, an AirPods Pro box-
- CWChris Williamson
He's got...
- YUYusef
Mirror, phone, earphones, and-
- CWChris Williamson
We've got this on video just so-
- JOJonny
Do you think he's having us on? I think he's having us on.
- CWChris Williamson
Just, just, just so you know-
- JOJonny
Just so you know.
- CWChris Williamson
I've got this on video, and I can go back and see if you've secretly bought AirPod Pros.
- 33:01 – 42:10
Compulsive games, emotional regulation, and the ‘basic’ mental health foundations
- YUYusef
So, I'm going to do a video on this soon 'cause I ... there's a game that I got. So I find whenever I'm going through a bit of a, like a dark patch or a stressed patch in my life, I download this really stupid game on my phone. It's like a Mortal Kombat game, and end up just getting completely sucked into it. And it happened during one year of my like, the worst exams in med school for like a month, and it happened a few months ago as well. And it's one of those games that like, I'm not even a gamer. I'm not into that stuff, and it's such a like stupid, like linear, like just button mash the thing. But, it taps into all of the little dopamine buttons and everything, and you know that it's designed not for f- not for actually a fun gameplay experience, but just to be this compulsive thing. And yeah, I just had... Uh, one day I was like, oh, fuck this, I'm just going to have to delete it.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- YUYusef
Like I spent, spent cash on upgrading more souls and-
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Oh my god.
- YUYusef
... um, and like ... (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
This is a shock. This is a real shock.
- JOJonny
This is a huge shock.
- YUYusef
You have to keep doing quests. I mean, whenever I was sat with my girlfriend and like, she'd be like, "Are you doing a quest?" I'm like, "Yeah, shut up man." Like ... (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Fucking listen, man.
- JOJonny
Like, I'm blown away by this.
- YUYusef
And so one day I was like, right, I've just got to delete it. Deleted it, didn't miss it at all. Just like-
- CWChris Williamson
But then you redownloaded it again-
- YUYusef
So it shows it's not-
- CWChris Williamson
... when you are, um, when you're in a stressful situation or whatever?
- YUYusef
Well, that- that's the risk. But it shows that-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- YUYusef
... you know, if- if you missed it, then it would truly be something fulfilling, but it's not. It's just really clever engineering of a, like a compulsive game.
- CWChris Williamson
I love the idea that it's like that's your vice.
- JOJonny
I know.
- CWChris Williamson
Some people s-
- JOJonny
It's a Mortal Kombat game.
- CWChris Williamson
Some people chain smoke, some-
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... some- some people are abusive to their partners. You download a Mortal Kombat game.
- YUYusef
Well, so the... now, this is the difficulty. Anyone listening, (clears throat) I challenge you, and I- I really don't recommend this. I feel like I'm recommending like going off and buying heroin. But if you download that game-
- CWChris Williamson
What's the game called?
- YUYusef
... just beware.
- CWChris Williamson
What's it called again?
- YUYusef
'Cause that, your life is over. Just Mortal Kombat Mobile.
- 42:10 – 50:35
Failures, regrets, and finding direction when you don’t know what you want
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, easy. Um, which of your failures would you say has resulted in f- the most future successes? Bloody hell. Um, I don't know. It... Why don't we do, why don't we each answer? So like, Stef, if you want to answer one, then Johnny will answer one, 'cause there's like-
- JOJonny
(clears throat)
- CWChris Williamson
... there's still, like hundreds of- of questions here. Um, any failures that have come up that have resulted in th- the most future successes for any of you guys?
- YUYusef
Yeah. So, I- I tweeted about this the other day and had some interesting discussions with some people about do you agree with the idea that you should never have regrets? 'Cause there's always people that say, "Oh, you should never have..." Now, yes, in principle that's a nice idea, but there are many decisions that you could take which move you in one direction or another purely by chance, and it's not that the decision was necessarily good or bad, it's just happened to turn out fortuitously or badly. Now-
- JOJonny
... if that's the case, then yes, you kind of regret the fact that it turned out that way, but the decision was kind of neither here nor there. With things that you chose, you actively decided to do and it turned out badly and you've learned a lesson from it, as long as you learned the lesson, then I would see that as you're paying tuition to the world. And the quickest way to, or the most direct example of that, is in trading. So like Forex trading, for example, where if you make a big loss, as long as you learn from that and learn how to adapt your strategy, that is your tuition to the market. And so yes, it might have cost you five grand, or 23 grand in my case, but it's- it's a very valuable lesson because you've- (laughs) you've then been able to be like, "Okay, there is where I went wrong and I know that I'm not going to do this again." And it's probably more effective than if you just read about someone else doing it because you've, like, physically experienced your anus being torn apart by the market-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JOJonny
... as a result. So that's what I would say.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, there's that quote from, um, I think it's Peter Thiel who says, um, "Any idiot can learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." But the problem with that is that you don't ever have the visceral, contextual-
- JOJonny
Doesn't sting.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Like, looking at someone else's gaping, flappy arsehole does not have the same impact. Yeah. (exhales deeply) It doesn't have the same impact as it being your arsehole.
- JOJonny
Mm-hmm. ?
- CWChris Williamson
Um, you can go back in time to one year of your life and share current wisdom. Which one and why? 2012 start a podcast, Chris. There you go. Now you're, like, one of the biggest podcasters on the planet because first mover advantage. Um, what do you do if you feel like you actually don't know what you want from life, Johnny? (laughs) Christ.
- JOJonny
Ugh. There you... Ugh. Have a bit of that hot potato.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Johnny, just hold this grenade a second. Um, what do you do if you don't know what you want? Uh, if you feel like you a- uh, like you actually don't know what you want from life. Directionless, meaninglessness, purposelessness.
- JOJonny
(sighs) I mean, some people approach this as like, you should work out what your values are and then make goals based on your values and all that sort of stuff. I- the thing that's- was most helpful for me in terms of like, why I, like, quit my job and why I'm, like, doing what I do now, is I actually did an exercise from a- a PDF download from a guy called Nate Green back in like 2010, um, which was called The Hero's Handbook. And Nate Green's a really good writer, if anyone wants to, like, go and read more and sort of like pop philosophy and sort of just like general very simple ideas of how to improve your life. But anyway, it was just literally, and you probably heard this before, design, like think of the best possible day you can imagine from start to finish. Like, where do you wake up? What's the room like? What are you doing that morning? What are you doing at lunchtime? What does the afternoon look like? What are your evening plans? And then expand that in like an, uh, like the best week you can imagine and then think, "Right, well, how can I begin to move my life towards that?" And from that, you extract, like, there's goals from that that you can create. And it's a- it is- it is pretty cool how, um, not to say like, "Look at me," but it is pretty cool that like, I'm pretty close to that. Like I- at the time, I was a mile away from it.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JOJonny
And I- you couldn't see, you can't even think like, "How would I... How can I figure that out?" Like, "Surely I would never be able to build a business and live off it. Surely I'd be- never be able to- that wouldn't happen in the internet. That- that bullshit doesn't work." All these sorts of things. Um, and then sudden- like you look back on it a year later and you're like, "Shit. Like, I'm making progress towards that." So, I think that's the thing that, um... What is he called? (claps hands) (sighs) Right to wait, but why?
- CWChris Williamson
Tim? Not Tim Urban.
- JOJonny
Tim Urban, yeah. Yeah. So he talks about like, happiness being crushing a Tuesday on the interview he does with Tim Ferriss. So like, the idea that people worry about goals and what they want and all that sort of stuff, and forget that like ultimately, tomorrow you're just gonna wake up and it's just going to be a day, and you're just going to experience a sequence of those and then cease to exist. So if you just think about like, "Well, how can I make my day or my week the best possible or like maximize my- my experience of existence as possible?" Probably you'll be quite content and feel like you're moving in the right direction.
- CWChris Williamson
I think w- to sort of add on to that, a lot of the time because there's so much urgent stuff that we do, we don't ever actually sit back to get into planning mode. We're just constantly in dealing with mode.
- JOJonny
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And it's that system one, system two thinking, um, that you need to step into. And that's what I realized, especially with lockdown, because I got more time away from having to do the club stuff, which allowed me for the first couple of weeks, or even actually first few months of lockdown. I went through like tons of Chris Sparks' Experimentation Without Limits or whatever it's called. I went through that. I- I started using Things 3 and completed Tiago Forte's get- Get Stuff Done Like A Boss course. I did like loads of stuff, added in a bunch of habits. But you can't ever do that when you're constantly fighting fires within your own life.
- JOJonny
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
So it's like, I think a lot of people that don't necessarily know what they want from life haven't ever taken time away from life to ask that question. It's like if all that you're always doing is being busy, um, saying yes to social events, saying yes to more stuff, projects, businesses, things for your boss, nights out, all that sort of stuff. Like you're not ever going to... It's not just going to emerge. If you don't have it, if you haven't stumbled upon it by chance, it's not just going to emerge.
- JOJonny
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
You have to actually do the work. You have to spend the time consciously thinking, "What would a good day, week, month, five-year, 10-year, 25-year plan look like? What would I actually want to do?"
- JOJonny
And then it's like, where am I trending? Like, am I trending in the right direction or the wrong direction? Like, if I keep doing what I'm doing now for 10 years-... where will that leave me? Is that a good situation or a bad situation? And then adjust. But I feel like Yusuf's got something to say.
- YUYusef
Quiet the mind and the spirit will speak. Like, if you're firefighting the whole time, your voice for inner intuition and your existential questions are just muffled because you're dealing with all the, the crap day-to-day. So yeah, you have to create some space.
- JOJonny
Someone told me recently, it might have been one of you two, that every good idea they've ever had in business has been from going on a walk. Was it one of you two? Maybe not. It was like-
- YUYusef
We were talking about s- ideas in the shower the other day, weren't we? The notebook.
- 50:35 – 1:05:03
Habits and lifestyle Q&A: gyms vs restaurants, self-improvement anxiety, sobriety, sleep, hunger, and books
- CWChris Williamson
Solitude is time, uh, on your own away from the input of other minds, not just time on your own, on the phone, listening to a podcast, reading, even that, you know. Um, so yeah. Uh, what else we got? Gyms or restaurants, you can only save one from the coronavirus. Yusuf.
- YUYusef
Gyms.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- YUYusef
Easily. Like, how, I mean, how often do you go to a restaurant compared, compared to num- like number of hours you spend in a gym? The alternative argument is keep restaurants open, buy a home gym, best of both worlds.
- CWChris Williamson
Or cook for them.
- YUYusef
But I'm an antisocial bastard. Like I, I prefer to be training away from people and in silence.
- CWChris Williamson
Great. Great. Um, Nick Purvis, a guy that runs Candy Pants podcast, which is great and everyone should go and check out, "How do you balance the constant desire for self-improvement without being sucked into a perpetual cycle of feeling like whatever you do is never enough?" It's a fucking-
- JOJonny
(clears throat)
- CWChris Williamson
... great question that, mate. Um, so the line between being tough on yourself to continue to motivate you to do more and being easy enough on yourself to know when you've worked hard is a lot wider than you think. I think a lot of people self-flagellate out of some feeling that it's going to motivate them to do more the next time, whereas that's actually not necessarily the way it works. You need to treat yourself as if you're someone you're responsible for helping, you need to be a friend to yourself. You wouldn't be this way to a friend. There's this song that, that I'm loving at the moment which is one of the lyrics says, um... it's gone, lyric's gone, so I'm not gonna be able to tell you what it is, but I'll put it in the, in the show notes.
- JOJonny
It, it's the lyric, "It's Parasite Eve." Is it-
- CWChris Williamson
It's-
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
"This is the moment you've been waiting for."
- JOJonny
That's it. I thought that might be what it was.
- CWChris Williamson
It's "Ba, ba, ba, ba. Ba, ba, ba, ba."
- YUYusef
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
"Ba, ba, ba, ba." That's what it is. Um, it's just, it's, it's hard, man. Like, you know, i- if you want more out of life, it is very, very challenging to not constantly just feel like everything that you do isn't enough. I think having a very strict quantified metric of your to-do list, hard stop and work cycles helps that a lot. Because if, y- you're never... Any ongoing project is always going to be cont- You can always do more work. Whereas if you set yourself, okay, if I have this much work to be done this day and I do it, then you stop working and it gives you a sense of accomplishment. But as everyone that's got an ongoing project knows, like it's, it's never finished, it's technically never finished. So you have to create these arbitrary done lines that, uh, give you some sort of a feeling that you finished it. So, um, yeah. What else have we got? Uh, someone's just written "Rogan" as a question. Don't know. Uh...
- YUYusef
Well, we discussed that in the last episode, didn't we? The Spotify Rogan-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- YUYusef
... situation.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, Johnny, "Any tips for becoming a better writer? Struggling with essay writing for med school." I'm going to pivot that to Yusuf.
- YUYusef
Essay writing for med school. So I assume that's someone who's going to, who goes to Cambridge then, 'cause that's the only-
- CWChris Williamson
Speral, Speraltag.
- YUYusef
If it's essay writing to get into med school, then realize that your personal statement will not even be read by the admissions staff and it, everything hinges on the UKCAT score, which they don't tell you, and it's a basically an IQ test that they claim is socioeconomically blind, but it's not, because it's very much favors, uh, men from, uh, white men from, uh, private education background. But luckily you can reverse engineer the process, do what I did. I increased my score from 69... 645 to 795. So I increased my IQ supposedly by 1.5 standard deviations, um-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- YUYusef
... which is not, it, that's not obviously possible, but it's just the fact that you can just hack the, the system.
- CWChris Williamson
Game the system.
- JOJonny
So, that was
- NANarrator
That was an example-
- YUYusef
So, ignore essay writing. If you're going to med school, it's not a skill that you need. Focus on the admission criteria that matter.
- 1:05:03 – 1:15:24
Side hustles, PEDs, gym disasters, training apps, affirmations, and the Episode 200 wrap
- JOJonny
Uh, "What side hustles do you each have?"
- CWChris Williamson
God, Yousef, I wanna know this. Fucking hell. How long have you got?
- YUYusef
(laughs) So, I, I arbitrage-
- CWChris Williamson
He's still doing, he's still doing the battery thing, yeah.
- YUYusef
Still arbitraging batteries, yeah. Um-
- JOJonny
Hold on.
- YUYusef
So-
- JOJonny
Hold on. Are you really?
- YUYusef
No, no.
- JOJonny
No, right.
- YUYusef
Um (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
It says everything that you had to check.
- JOJonny
Well, because when he told us about this, I remember Chris's reaction was like, "So that's what he was doing last weekend. He wasn't really busy with his girlfriend. He was, like, down at the flack- the factory in Slough and j- making sure there's, the supply chain was still working."
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- JOJonny
It wouldn't surprise me.
- YUYusef
Yeah. So, no, I'd, I, my only side hustles is I'm, I'm trying to get a rental property currently. I have a side hustle as a doctor. And, um, we do-
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- YUYusef
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- YUYusef
A- and we do propane. Propane busine- propane fitness and propane fizz-ness.
- JOJonny
Fitness.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, plus you trade.
- JOJonny
Trading?
- YUYusef
What's that?
- CWChris Williamson
Trading.
- YUYusef
Trading. Oh, yeah. Trading, of course.
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- YUYusef
I mean, I, I see trading as a capital growth strategy rather than an income strategy, but it, you're right, it should be included in there. No one's gonna be like, "Oh, well your side hustle should technically be it." Yeah. Like, let's include that.
- CWChris Williamson
Johnny?
Episode duration: 1:47:47
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