Modern WisdomExorcisms, Rockstar Priests & Dangerous Taboos - Andrew Gold | Modern Wisdom Podcast 355
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 0:24
A reporter in the middle of an exorcism frenzy
The episode opens in the aftermath of an intense church scene in Buenos Aires, with Andrew describing a crowd whipped into panic and violence. This sets the tone for a conversation about chasing extreme subcultures and the personal risk that can come with it.
- •Thousands of congregants screaming and convulsing during a mass
- •Priest frames events as 'the devil' trying to escape
- •Andrew and his crew fear the crowd could attack them
- •Immediate sense of danger and chaos as a hook into the story
- 0:24 – 2:49
Andrew Gold’s career path: from tabloid nights to documenting outsiders
Andrew explains his job as a documentarian/podcaster drawn to controversial people and fringe beliefs, likening himself to a less famous Louis Theroux. He recounts early journalism work at The Sun and how it shaped his desire to do deeper, stranger reporting.
- •Self-description: documenting weird/controversial subcultures across formats
- •Early career at The Sun and backlash for that association
- •Page 3 iPad/3D workflow anecdote and the mundanity of tabloid production
- •Decision to move away from formulaic media toward character-driven docs
- 2:49 – 6:51
Escaping to Latin America: languages, travel, and early documentaries
Burned out by tabloid life, Andrew moves to Colombia then Argentina, driven by language learning and a need for distance from his old environment. In Argentina he begins making short docs on topics like UFOs and infidelity, encountering local media attention along the way.
- •Medellín move funded via hustling a travel angle and a free flight
- •Quits his job while abroad and stays for months
- •Relocates to Argentina for a different culture/dialect
- •Makes early docs; gets mocked on radio and ends up defending work on live TV
- 6:51 – 9:32
Finding ‘Padre Manuel’: why an atheist chased an exorcist
Andrew explains how a media-famous priest promoting supernatural claims (vampires, warding rituals) drew his attention. He frames the priest as a charismatic fraud operating in communities with less access to education and skeptical countervoices.
- •Priest appears regularly on mainstream TV/radio making paranormal claims
- •Andrew’s frustration with presenters treating claims credulously
- •Contacting the priest and gaining access to film him
- •Context: impoverished suburbs and vulnerability to manipulation
- 9:32 – 13:36
Inside the exorcisms: mental health, spectacle, and moral unease
Andrew describes attending exorcisms where people convulse and faint, and he connects the phenomenon to untreated mental illness and historical misunderstandings of disorders. He recounts participating in a ritual with ‘devil-warding’ bells and realizing it wasn’t funny—it was ethically troubling.
- •Many ‘possessions’ map onto schizophrenia, OCD, epilepsy, eating disorders
- •Priest takes patients from/near psychiatric care into his orbit
- •Exorcisms can create temporary relief via shock, energy, and belief
- •Andrew participates once, then refuses further complicity
- 13:36 – 17:17
Suspicions around the priest’s inner circle—and the night it turned dangerous
The reporting shifts from odd ritual to threat as Andrew uncovers rumors about the priest’s closeness to a young assistant who had been exorcised. A rival journalist stokes conflict, leading to Andrew being confronted backstage by the priest and his entourage.
- •Assistant ‘Paola’ (formerly ‘Laura’) becomes central to concerns
- •Hints of inappropriate intimacy and power imbalance
- •Backstage confrontation: isolation from crew, intimidation by ‘cronies’
- •Priest’s rage and accusations escalate the risk
- 17:17 – 19:45
The escape, the missed shot, and accidentally capturing the most important audio
Andrew recounts trying to leave safely through thousands of frenzied followers as the priest frames them as the ‘devil’ escaping. A technical failure forces them to re-shoot the exit, compounding danger—yet Andrew’s mic captures the confrontation, becoming the documentary’s defining material.
- •Crowd control fear: ‘they’re all gonna kill us’
- •Priest uses microphone to direct crowd narrative against them
- •Camera failure forces a second pass through the crowd
- •Hidden mic audio becomes crucial proof and story climax
- 19:45 – 23:04
Selling the film: two years of rejection, then BBC buys it (for almost nothing)
Andrew explains how difficult it is to get foreign-language docs commissioned, so he filmed first and pitched later. After relentless emailing and networking, a BBC team finally watches and buys it—on harsh terms that barely cover legal costs but provides prestige and awards.
- •Commissioners hesitant about foreign-language content and translation loss
- •Persistence strategy: cold emails, LinkedIn, guessing addresses for years
- •BBC acquisition: low fee, extensive legal review, rights taken indefinitely
- •Festival success and BBC ‘Best of the Year’ recognition
- 23:04 – 36:09
BBC meetings and the diversity quota problem: on-screen optics vs real opportunity
Andrew describes post-success frustration: meetings that felt hostile and a repeated demand that a minority presenter front his ideas while he stayed behind the camera. The discussion broadens into incentives, representation metrics, and whether diversity efforts become performative or misallocated.
- •Perceived bias against him as a white, middle-class male presenter type
- •Repeated industry request: swap him out for a minority on-screen presence
- •Debate over on-screen vs off-screen representation (Diamond survey figures)
- •Concern about tokenism and smokescreen dynamics at leadership levels
- 36:09 – 38:15
Getting along with people you disagree with: the ‘abortion protester’ documentary lesson
Andrew reflects on filming a pro-life activist he initially expected to dislike, only to find her personable and funny—until the questioning created conflict. He explains how close contact with extreme beliefs reshapes your sense of what’s ‘unbelievable’ in everyday politics.
- •Pro-choice filmmaker embedded with a pro-life protester and her family
- •Humanizing effect of proximity—even across strong moral disagreement
- •Tension between honest questioning and maintaining access/relationships
- •Recalibrating shock: exorcisms make Brexit/Trump seem less mystifying
- 38:15 – 47:10
Belief, placebo, and ‘lived experience’: why truth is hard to pin down
They explore how belief can heal or transform behavior, and why intelligence doesn’t immunize people against absurd conclusions (Arthur Conan Doyle and fairies). The conversation then tackles the limits of ‘lived experience’ as evidence and the need to respect subjectivity without confusing it for truth.
- •Placebo and meaning effects: belief as a powerful driver of outcomes
- •Smart people rationalize wildly different conclusions (Intelligence Trap)
- •‘Lived experience’ as a conversation-stopper vs as subjective data
- •Therapy framing: two perspectives and a truth ‘in between’
- 47:10 – 55:04
Undercover in Amazon: brutal labor, wage chaos, and why no one intervenes
Andrew relays journalist James Bloodworth’s undercover account of Amazon warehouse conditions in the UK—extreme walking, points-based discipline, and limited breaks. They discuss why enforcement lags despite laws, and how culture-war distractions can eclipse structural exploitation.
- •Warehouse work: physical breakdown, constant surveillance/metrics
- •Points system: penalties for speed, breaks, ‘time off task’ leading to firing
- •Wage/payment problems as a poverty-level crisis for workers
- •Union-busting tactics and corporate/government incentive misalignment
- 55:04 – 1:00:48
What really matters vs culture-war noise: suffering, COVID, and information overload
Chris and Andrew argue that modern crises don’t necessarily clarify values because they often produce ‘comfortable discomfort’—people stuck at home, online, and anxious. They connect this to information surplus, social media incentives, and the search for micro-problems when big problems feel distant or unfixable.
- •COVID as globally shared trauma that still didn’t reset priorities
- •Information surplus overwhelms filtering and amplifies stress
- •‘Luxury suffering’ at home fuels obsession with ideological minutiae
- •Suffering’s role in creativity vs attempts to sanitize discomfort away
- 1:00:48 – 1:23:06
Infiltrating the pedophile world: Berlin’s clinic, ‘non-offenders,’ and prevention ethics
Andrew details research into Berlin’s controversial non-reporting pedophile clinic and his interviews with self-described non-offenders, including a rare female case. They confront the ethical dilemma: attraction isn’t chosen, harm is real, and stigma may increase risk—yet society struggles to discuss prevention without appearing to excuse abuse.
- •Clinic rationale: confidentiality encourages treatment-seeking
- •Distinction claimed by community: ‘pedophile’ vs ‘pedo-criminal’
- •Risk factors emphasized: intoxication, access to children, stigma/alienation
- •POCD (pedophile OCD) and misdiagnosis fears; need for talk to reduce abuse
- 1:23:06 – 1:30:42
The ultimate taboo and the cost of going there: emotional impact, journalism, and ‘superstar’ reporters
Andrew describes breaking down after meeting a key subject (‘Max’) and becoming desensitized over time, balancing empathy with vigilance. The closing discussion turns to why investigative journalism has fewer public ‘stars’ today and how taboo topics are avoided due to incentives, safety, and brand risk—pushing younger journalists toward the edges.
- •Personal fallout: overwhelm and tears after a pivotal interview
- •Desensitization as a coping mechanism during long investigations
- •Modern media incentives favor safe, advertiser-friendly content
- •Taboo reporting as a risky niche for hungry early-career journalists
