Female Psychopath Explains How She Manipulates Men - Kanika Batra

1. 0:00 – 1:00

   Should We Trust the Word of a Sociopath

   1. CWChris Williamson0:00

      You're a diagnosed sociopath. You also say that you're the most manipulative person I'll ever meet, and that you can lie better than anybody. Why should I believe anything that you're about to tell me?

   2. KBKanika Batra0:11

      Well, I don't have a lot to lose by lying. People know who I am. People know that I can manipulate in many different ways. It's just an idea of, I understand that you're a certain type of person, and I know how to work every type of person. But I can verify [laughs] my diagnosis through independent sources like Business Insider.

   3. CWChris Williamson0:34

      Why should I believe anything you're going to tell me over the next couple of hours? Why wouldn't you just manipulate your way through the entire conversation?

   4. KBKanika Batra0:40

      Because I'm lifting the mask, okay? I'm lifting the mask. I did it before. I'm gonna do it again. I'm going to give you raw and unfiltered, and then you can just cut out whatever you don't like. [laughs]

   5. CWChris Williamson0:50

      That sounds good to me. Should I be scared of you?

   6. KBKanika Batra0:53

      Absolutely not. I'm, I'm f- five foot one. What am I gonna do? [laughs]

   7. CWChris Williamson0:58

      That's fair. That's fair. Okay.

2. 1:00 – 4:07

   Is Sociopathy Actually Real?

   1. CWChris Williamson1:00

      So what is a sociopath? What's your specific diagnosis?

   2. KBKanika Batra1:03

      So I've been diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder, as well as Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and I fit the profile, my psychiatrist says, of a factor one psychopath. Because psychopathy actually comes from narcissism, so the glibness, the superficial charm, the ability to essentially go from one job to another, being able to pathologically lie, all of those, and being very grandiose. They're all very narcissistic traits. So that's where psychopath... Like, psychopath diverges into c- factor one and factor two. Factor one is primary psychopathy, so that's basically your engine running. P- factor two is, eh, you're causing a lot of problems to society. It's like the more anti-societal norm behavior. So it's like, you know, being a truant, stealing, uh, lying to people, committing crimes that would put you in prison. All of the reckless stuff that we tend to do.

   3. CWChris Williamson2:01

      Mm-hmm.

   4. KBKanika Batra2:01

      So I lean more onto the factor one because I've had a brain scan and my amygdala does not light up. It just doesn't. So I, I, I know what people are feeling. I just will never feel it. And I know how to mimic a, an accurate response-

   5. CWChris Williamson2:19

      Hmm

   6. KBKanika Batra2:19

      ... something that they would want to see. Like if someone's just died, right? My friend died last week. I just... I can cry on command. So I can just go to the funeral and cry.

   7. CWChris Williamson2:31

      You seem distraught about it.

   8. KBKanika Batra2:33

      Oh, I am. [laughs] I only knew her for about four years.

   9. CWChris Williamson2:38

      That's kind of long for a lot of people. Friendship's long-ish. Okay. Talk to me about the DSM. Sociopath isn't a diagnosis.

   10. KBKanika Batra2:49

       No.

   11. CWChris Williamson2:49

       It's more a colloquial term-

   12. KBKanika Batra2:50

       Yes

   13. CWChris Williamson2:50

       ... for Antisocial Personality Disorder.

   14. KBKanika Batra2:52

       Yes. I w- I wanted to explain that because everyone keeps getting at me like, "Sociopath isn't a real thing," or, "I thought you were a sociopath and now you're saying psychopath." Okay, so Antisocial Personality Disorder is one of the bases of psychopathy, factor one and factor two. So factor one completely lacks anxiety and has no fear response, which is me. Factor two is they do get a lot of anxiety. They get, um, very violent. They're very aggressive. They do not have a conscience. They are unable to feel guilt for anything that they've done. But they are hot-tempered, whereas I'm cold essentially. I can plan over months and months if I'm trying to achieve something. They, if you said, for factor two, if you just say something that they find offensive, they will blow up. They will-

   15. CWChris Williamson3:38

       More impulsive.

   16. KBKanika Batra3:38

       Yeah, way more impulsive, way more chaotic-

   17. CWChris Williamson3:41

       Hmm

   18. KBKanika Batra3:41

       ... more likely to go to prison.

   19. CWChris Williamson3:43

       Interesting. More dangerous or less dangerous?

   20. KBKanika Batra3:47

       [laughs] It depends, 'cause a factor one psychopath, let's say, I don't know, a good representation would be Hannibal Lecter. Like he, he... I think he's a bit of a threat, but then-

   21. CWChris Williamson3:59

       Sort of more chilling than terrifying.

   22. KBKanika Batra4:01

       He's a more... Yeah, exactly. So factor one is chilling. Factor two is this guy's gonna set me on fire-

   23. CWChris Williamson4:06

       Hmm

   24. KBKanika Batra4:06

       ... right

3. 4:07 – 4:45

   What is Antisocial Personality Disorder?

   1. KBKanika Batra4:07

      now.

   2. CWChris Williamson4:07

      What about the Antisocial Personality Disorder? What's that consist of?

   3. KBKanika Batra4:09

      So antisocial, it... The basic traits that you need is like a lack of remorse, lack of guilt, lack of empathy, um, being, having antisocial crimes, so anti-societal norms. So this can include hurting animals, hurting children, hurting other people around you. That sort of... Those are sort of the hallmarks of antisocial personality. And then when you combine antisocial and narcissistic and put them together, you get either a malignant narcissist or the kind of psy- psychopath that will absolutely ruin your life.

   4. CWChris Williamson4:44

      Hmm.

4. 4:45 – 8:38

   When Kanika Realised She Was Different

   1. CWChris Williamson4:45

      What was childhood like for you?

   2. KBKanika Batra4:47

      [laughs] Uh, it was fine. Uh, I used to witness a lot of domestic violence. So, uh, my father was aggressive towards my mother and my brother. I was never treated badly by my dad. He bought me anything I wanted. He essentially never said no to me. Like we had just flown to Australia from New Zealand, and I was five or so and I said I wanted a specific Barbie doll and he walked three kilometers [laughs] to go get it, even though he was jet-lagged. You know, it was like... 'Cause we had to pack up all our stuff and move. And so that was something that I had. Um, my mom would beat the shit out of me though because-

   3. CWChris Williamson5:27

      So Dad beat Mom and Mom beat you?

   4. KBKanika Batra5:29

      Yes. But I didn't mind because it's like that's the kind of discipline that I think I needed, 'cause I was a menace. I was an absolute menace. I was a truant. I used to lie. I used to steal. I used to physically harm people. Um, I used to harm other children as well, mostly my age. Like I pushed a girl down the stairs and she broke her leg in three different places. Um, and then I got her suspended because I said that she made a racist claim, which she, she didn't, but she, she was, uh, the kind of person who you could believe would say something like that. So, um-

   5. CWChris Williamson6:06

      How old were you?

   6. KBKanika Batra6:07

      14. Yeah. So pretty early on I had conduct disorder and I had callous-unemotional traits

   7. CWChris Williamson6:14

      Hmm

   8. KBKanika Batra6:15

      Um, that's, I guess that's why I got the antisocial personality disorder. It kind of is a precursor to that. Um, but I would say in terms of the rest of my childhood, I also had thalassemia. So it's a blood disorder where my bone marrow can't produce its own red blood cells, so I have to get transfusions every three to four weeks. And so because of that, I got so much attention constantly. Like, people were always around me, making me sh- making sure that I was feeling good, you know, not sick.

   9. CWChris Williamson6:46

      It's a kind of center of attention-

   10. KBKanika Batra6:47

       Yeah

   11. CWChris Williamson6:48

       ... not necessarily for a reason that you want, but you still do-

   12. KBKanika Batra6:50

       Yeah

   13. CWChris Williamson6:50

       ... get a lot of attention

   14. KBKanika Batra6:51

       ... exactly. And then also because of that, um, also on top of that, I should say, is I did child modeling. So I got a lot of validation from there too. So I always got validation from everyone around me, just not for the things, but it was always for the things that I do, not me as a human.

   15. CWChris Williamson7:10

       Hmm.

   16. KBKanika Batra7:10

       So I feel like that kind of shaped how I saw things and how I made everything very transactional. 'Cause I-

   17. CWChris Williamson7:18

       What, when did you realize that you were different?

   18. KBKanika Batra7:20

       [sighs] Probably four or five. But the-

   19. CWChris Williamson7:23

       What did that look like?

   20. KBKanika Batra7:24

       It was just that I couldn't understand why people looked so happy and how they could be friends with each other, and they didn't really do anything. They... I, I couldn't understand what was so attractive about a person and wanting to be their friend. I was, I was sort of forced to deal with other people. Like, at my f- I think it was my fourth birthday or my third birthday, um, th- I had a friend who was a really fat girl, and I told my mom, like, "Do not let her ride my new Barbie bike. Uh, she's too fat, and it will break." And she let her use the Barbie bike, and it broke. So I'm just saying. But outside of that, I was like, how are people... Like, how do people react, like, normally to things? How... Like, what's wrong with me?

   21. CWChris Williamson8:05

       Hmm.

   22. KBKanika Batra8:05

       It just started to crystallize more around, like, I think 10, 11.

   23. CWChris Williamson8:10

       Hmm.

   24. KBKanika Batra8:10

       It just felt like there's, like, this glass between... a, a wall of glass between me and other people, that I can watch you, I can observe you, I can study what you do, I can see what's successful about you, and I will emulate that, but I will never feel it.

   25. CWChris Williamson8:26

       Hmm.

   26. KBKanika Batra8:26

       Like, I will never understand what proper, I guess, guilt feels like.

   27. CWChris Williamson8:32

       Hmm.

   28. KBKanika Batra8:32

       I won't feel what remorse feels like. I, I don't, I've never had anxiety a day in my life.

5. 8:38 – 9:39

   Are Sociopaths Born Or Made?

   1. CWChris Williamson8:40

      What have you come to believe about whether sociopaths are born or made?

   2. KBKanika Batra8:45

      So I believe that factor one psychopaths are actually born, and factor two so- psychopaths, I know they tend to say factor one is psychopath, factor two is sociopath, but that's inaccurate terming. For factor two, I would say that's being made. You're being made.

   3. CWChris Williamson9:02

      Why?

   4. KBKanika Batra9:03

      Because that's after a, an abuse, uh... It's usually during an abusive home life. So they experience all of the n- like the volatility, they experience domestic violence. They see that this is the way to get power in life-

   5. CWChris Williamson9:18

      Hmm

   6. KBKanika Batra9:18

      ... is to have physical strength and full control over another person. And it's, it's, it's so overwhelming for them, and they turn to violent crimes because of that. And I think with both of us, like both factor one, both factor two, they, we have equal levels of loneliness. So we sort of channel it a little bit differently to

6. 9:39 – 14:13

   Does Mental Illness Run in Families?

   1. KBKanika Batra9:39

      them.

   2. CWChris Williamson9:39

      Is there a history of mental illness or anything in your family?

   3. KBKanika Batra9:43

      I would say my paternal side is extremely psychopathic. I know on my mom's side there's one person who would-

   4. CWChris Williamson9:49

      Is there anyone worse than you?

   5. KBKanika Batra9:50

      Yeah. [laughs] Um, okay, so this is a pretty dark story, but okay. So my aunt, when she was 17, she had premarital sex with a guy who promised to marry her, and then he refused to marry her, and because she'd been tarnished, uh, they weren't very happy with her in the family. So she was found burned on a stove. She had third degree burns all over her body, and she asked for a red sari to be buried, like not buried, but in, when she was in the hospital fighting for her life, she asked for a red sari because she believed, like, she was gonna get to marry the guy that she slept with.

   6. CWChris Williamson10:31

      What's a red sari? Sorry.

   7. KBKanika Batra10:32

      So you'd wear that at your wedding. You know a sari?

   8. CWChris Williamson10:34

      Mm-hmm.

   9. KBKanika Batra10:34

      Like the Indian... Yeah. And so, yeah, she asked for that. And I asked my dad, like, 'cause I didn't even know this happened because no-

   10. CWChris Williamson10:41

       Burned on a stove?

   11. KBKanika Batra10:42

       Yeah.

   12. CWChris Williamson10:43

       Like-

   13. KBKanika Batra10:43

       Her head was put on the stove, and then they put kerosene on her as well for the rest.

   14. CWChris Williamson10:48

       Who did?

   15. KBKanika Batra10:49

       My grandfather.

   16. CWChris Williamson10:51

       Because she'd had sex-

   17. KBKanika Batra10:52

       Yeah

   18. CWChris Williamson10:52

       ... before marriage?

   19. KBKanika Batra10:53

       And he refused to marry her, yeah. So she's tarnished.

   20. CWChris Williamson10:57

       Did she survive?

   21. KBKanika Batra10:58

       No, she's dead. I didn't know she existed. Like, I saw a photo of four little kids in my dad's, like, there's like this old box that he has. And I was like, "Okay, but you have two siblings. Who are these other ones? Like, which one's you?" He's like, "No, that's Raju and that's Baby." And Baby was the one who was killed, and she was only 17. Raju died from, I think, some sort of kidney problem.

   22. CWChris Williamson11:20

       Hmm. Okay. Yeah, that might be a little bit of a history.

   23. KBKanika Batra11:25

       Yeah.

   24. CWChris Williamson11:25

       But-

   25. KBKanika Batra11:25

       And then on my mom's side, this one's crazy. So my uncle, he m- got married five times, different women, swindled all of them, took all of their money, took all of their happiness and sanity, and then he ended up, um, selling my grandparents' home, which is worth a lot, a lot, to, um, three different people. So he took the money from three different people, and he fled to America. So if he ever goes back onto Indian soil, he will be arrested.

   26. CWChris Williamson12:00

       Five women, swindled all of them-

   27. KBKanika Batra12:02

       Yeah. Now he-

   28. CWChris Williamson12:02

       ... sold the house.

   29. KBKanika Batra12:04

       Yeah, and now he's married to his childhood sweetheart.

   30. CWChris Williamson12:08

       Look, you can have a happy ending, apparently after all of that. Uh, what, what do you think it was like for your parents growing up with you?
7. 14:13 – 20:01

   How Kanika Reached Her Diagnosis

   1. CWChris Williamson14:13

      When did this get most extreme or intense? Because, I don't know, you haven't walked in here, at least yet, you haven't attacked anybody or burnt anyone or-

   2. KBKanika Batra14:22

      No

   3. CWChris Williamson14:22

      ... you know. The... It seems to me you, you're now married.

   4. KBKanika Batra14:27

      Yes.

   5. CWChris Williamson14:27

      Uh, you've got a husband who, who's come with you. That seems relatively domesticated compared with the person that we're hearing about from childhood.

   6. KBKanika Batra14:36

      Yes.

   7. CWChris Williamson14:37

      If you're sort of tracking over time when the most intensity of this un-

   8. KBKanika Batra14:44

      Rage.

   9. CWChris Williamson14:45

      Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   10. KBKanika Batra14:46

       The rage.

   11. CWChris Williamson14:46

       Will you t- talk me, talk me through the, the timeline of sort of where that got to and where it fell off.

   12. KBKanika Batra14:51

       Absolutely. So I would say the worst for us was in my teenage to early 20s. So I stole from people, including my parents. I was very violent in my high school. I would cause, like, a not only physical damage. Like, I used to push this girl off her stool every morning, and the stools were pretty high. They were up, like, here in the science lab, and so I would knock her down every single day, and her legs were super bruised. Um, I would also end up, like, I, I guess sabotaging friends who I thought were getting more success than me, or I'd get very, very angry if someone said that I wasn't as intelligent as I knew I was because of my scores. So that would result in, like, fistfights and pulling people's hair out. Um-

   13. CWChris Williamson15:35

       But as you've said, you're five foot one.

   14. KBKanika Batra15:37

       I know, but back then-

   15. CWChris Williamson15:37

       And would've been smaller back then.

   16. KBKanika Batra15:39

       Back then... No, I've been five foot one since I was, like, 12. [chuckles]

   17. CWChris Williamson15:41

       Okay. All right, cool. Yeah, so-

   18. KBKanika Batra15:42

       Yeah, yeah, but luckily, o- other women are easily... Like, other female children are easy to neutralize when you, you know what to go for. If you go for the eyes, if you go for the throat, if you go to certain areas of the body, it's like no matter what your size is, like-

   19. CWChris Williamson15:57

       You sound like the New- the New Zealand Bas Rutten, if you know who that is.

   20. KBKanika Batra16:00

       Oh my God.

   21. CWChris Williamson16:00

       The guy from the fucking UFC.

   22. KBKanika Batra16:02

       Oh.

   23. CWChris Williamson16:03

       Go on.

   24. KBKanika Batra16:03

       Yeah. That's brilliant. Um, so that was bad, but then in my early 20s, it was, like, fraud. I would steal people's credit cards. I would go, like, have a competition with my friend, who I believe also has antisocial personality, to see what we could take from different stores. Um, and there was actually a fair bit. There was... I was pretty awful to people. Like, I would break up with them on their birthdays, um, create, uh, or, like, create drama in terms of smearing their character because I know how to do that very well. But because I was, like, sort of shifting a little bit because I was seeing a psychiatrist. So when I got diagnosed... Like, do you want to know about that?

   25. CWChris Williamson16:48

       Yes.

   26. KBKanika Batra16:48

       Okay. So I got diagnosed at 21, and this was after I tried to kill myself because I tried to kill myself 'cause I was getting migraines every day, and I was thinking, "I don't want to live with this kind of pain daily." So, and the doctors weren't taking me seriously. My GP told me to stop calling. My neurologist said it wasn't a big deal, and I'm like, "Yeah, it's not a big deal for you, bro. You're not dealing with it." And so I was like, "Okay, fuck it. I'm going." So I took the pills, woke up in hospital, realized I'd failed. Um, disappointed about that.

   27. CWChris Williamson17:17

       What did you do? What did you try and do?

   28. KBKanika Batra17:19

       Uh, I took 15 Endep pills, so 15 amitriptyline, which really is actually lethal, so I don't know what happened. Um, and so I woke up, and they said, "Do you want to be in a, in an inpatient facility, or do you want to go outpatient?" And I was like, "Yeah, outpatient. I'm not going to live in that house. I'm sorry." And so when I went, I was evaluated for over 16 months by a forensic psychiatrist. I've actually been on TV with him. Um, and he told me that I had antisocial personality disorder. He told me I had narcissistic personality disorder. He would talk about ways... Because... Oh, yes, I forgot to say, he also worked in prisons, so he would try to discourage me from criminal activity-

   29. CWChris Williamson18:00

       Hmm

   30. KBKanika Batra18:00

       ... because he would tell me specific stories about the women that, and what they get treated like in that, in that prison. So he's like, "You will..." He didn't try to do it from a moralistic place. He did it from, "You're gonna suffer. You're gonna have-"
8. 20:01 – 26:54

   Do Sociopaths Actually Feel Emotions?

   1. CWChris Williamson20:01

      Uh, okay. What emotions do you feel?

   2. KBKanika Batra20:04

      I feel all emotions except for, like, I don't think empathy counts as an emotion. So I would say the fleeting emotions are like joy, happiness, being, uh, proud of myself. Um, anything positive is [laughs] very long, lo- anything positive is very short-lived.

   3. CWChris Williamson20:22

      Hmm.

   4. KBKanika Batra20:22

      Everything negative like rage, like, uh, contempt, uh, anything along the lines of r- anger, that stays for a while.

   5. CWChris Williamson20:32

      Mm-hmm.

   6. KBKanika Batra20:33

      Which is really frustrating because it's like, why couldn't you give me more of the good stuff? Like, why am I feeling the bad stuff? I don't want-

   7. CWChris Williamson20:39

      Why is there not psychopathy for positive emotions?

   8. KBKanika Batra20:41

      Yeah, well, it's the thing-

   9. CWChris Williamson20:42

      Just people walking around in bliss all the time-

   10. KBKanika Batra20:43

       Yeah

   11. CWChris Williamson20:43

       ... remembering all the nice things that happened to them.

   12. KBKanika Batra20:45

       There are. Yeah. And the problem is it's like two different areas of the brain. So one is like, "Yeah, you should feel shit all the time," and one's like, "I'll give you five seconds of like a good time today." And it's like, "Why are you doing this to me?"

   13. CWChris Williamson20:59

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   14. KBKanika Batra22:01

       Unfortunately, yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson22:02

       And, and not just... It sounds not so much... I- is it depressive negative or like-

   16. KBKanika Batra22:08

       No

   17. CWChris Williamson22:08

       ... active negative?

   18. KBKanika Batra22:09

       No. So my-- I do, like, experience depression, if you will. But for me, it's no profound sadness. It's a completely flat feeling of having nothing, and you just consume so much time, like volumes of time, and you don't even know what you've done with it. And so it's like you kind of just flounder. And that lasts for a while, unfortunately.

   19. CWChris Williamson22:29

       Hmm.

   20. KBKanika Batra22:30

       So I really don't like that. I can't handle boredom at all.

   21. CWChris Williamson22:34

       You said, uh, you don't think that empathy is an emotion.

   22. KBKanika Batra22:36

       No.

   23. CWChris Williamson22:36

       But something like, uh, guilt, I think would, would almost certainly-

   24. KBKanika Batra22:41

       Would it count?

   25. CWChris Williamson22:41

       I think almost certainly guilt has to be.

   26. KBKanika Batra22:43

       Okay.

   27. CWChris Williamson22:43

       Guilt is... The reason that guilt exists is to identify... It's a, a self-identifier from your system to tell you that there is an imbalance in the, uh, ledger between you and something else or somebody else, that I have taken too much from this situation. You could imagine why in a tribe this would be needed, that you need to ensure that everybody else sees you in a positive manner, and if you're the person that's always taking from the food and never giving it, you should feel guilt because it's an early warning sign that, hey, other people are not gonna like you at some point in future, which is where the transactional stuff comes from. But for you, guilt-

   28. KBKanika Batra23:20

       That's so interesting. I actually didn't know that. So the way I see guilt as a soc- it's a social conditioning emotion that is generally useless because what can I do about things I've done 20 years ago? Uh, am I gonna go say sorry and it's gonna fix it? No, it's not.

   29. CWChris Williamson23:38

       Hmm.

   30. KBKanika Batra23:39

       I guess that's why I burnt a lot of bridges. But [laughs] it's, it's just something that I don't feel. It's like I live in the present. If it's not in the present, it doesn't matter.
9. 26:54 – 31:25

   Why Kanika Turned to Christianity

   1. KBKanika Batra26:54

      is great, but...

   2. CWChris Williamson26:55

      What else from an emotion standpoint is, is interesting? I'm aware that a lot of this to you must be like me talking about what it's like to be Harry Potter, the wizard-

   3. KBKanika Batra27:05

      [laughs]

   4. CWChris Williamson27:06

      ... that it's very hypothetical, right?

   5. KBKanika Batra27:07

      Yeah.

   6. CWChris Williamson27:07

      But I imagine that you've spent a good bit of time thinking about not just so that you can manipulate other people, but so that you can function in the world at least remotely well, what the difference is between your experience and other people's. H- how else... What are the other big differences you think between sort of how you go through a day in terms of feeling-

   7. KBKanika Batra27:27

      Feel-wise?

   8. CWChris Williamson27:27

      ... things? Yeah.

   9. KBKanika Batra27:28

      Yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson27:28

       Emotions operating.

   11. KBKanika Batra27:29

       So most things I don't feel very heavily. So if something happens and it's a great thing, like, I don't know, doing a podcast with you-

   12. CWChris Williamson27:37

       Mm-hmm

   13. KBKanika Batra27:37

       ... I'll be like afterwards, "Damn, that was fun," or like, "Damn, that's gonna be cool when it comes out," um, that'll last for about 20 minutes, and then I'll see someone, like, say something annoying on Instagram, and I'll be like, "Should this person get attacked later or not?" And then I'll sort of go, go through that. Um, but recently I've found Christianity through Charlie Kirk, and that has radically changed a lot of what I do. So yeah, people don't really like hearing about religion or politics, and I'm a conservative who has... a lifelong conservative, and I love Charlie Kirk, and that kind of... They don't like religion either, so.

   14. CWChris Williamson28:20

       What was that brought on by?

   15. KBKanika Batra28:22

       So when he passed, I, I loved Charlie Kirk so much, like-

   16. CWChris Williamson28:25

       Prior to him passing?

   17. KBKanika Batra28:26

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved him so much. Like, I loved everything he said. I loved how kind he was. I loved how... He was, he was like the true beacon of masculinity if there ever was one.

   18. CWChris Williamson28:35

       Seems surprising that you would admire somebody who's kind given-

   19. KBKanika Batra28:38

       Yeah. He's the good person that I can't be, and then when the, when he was taken from the world, I just realized there's no good in the world.

   20. CWChris Williamson28:46

       Hmm. What was the lesson that you took from that?

   21. KBKanika Batra28:50

       Well, initially it was how cruel people are and, like, how disgusting they are, and if I as a psychopath have more morality than you, it's saying something. And so I saw these people just, like, mocking his death and, like, it became a trend on TikTok, and I was like, "He was a fucking human being, bro. He was a human being. He was 31."

   22. CWChris Williamson29:13

       Hmm.

   23. KBKanika Batra29:13

       It just really pissed me off. And so, like, I, I actually grieved him more than I've grieved anyone in my life, including my family. Like, my grandfather died in front of my eyes, not the one who burned his daughter. He died in front of my eyes when I was 10 years old. So that, no, no emotion.

   24. CWChris Williamson29:31

       Hmm.

   25. KBKanika Batra29:31

       Nothing. The other grandda- grandparents die, no emotion. Friends die, no emotion. But, like, for Charlie Kirk, I was crying every single day. Made no sense.

   26. CWChris Williamson29:41

       Hmm.

   27. KBKanika Batra29:42

       I think-

   28. CWChris Williamson29:42

       Is that strange?

   29. KBKanika Batra29:43

       Yeah. Yeah.

   30. CWChris Williamson29:43

       Is that a strange situation for you?
10. 31:25 – 35:19

    How Far Would a Sociopath Go for Revenge?

    1. CWChris Williamson31:25

       I'm interested in this pivot to Christianity a little bit because one of the core tenets of that is to turn the other cheek.

    2. KBKanika Batra31:31

       That's what I'm having the biggest problem with.

    3. CWChris Williamson31:33

       As somebody who-

    4. KBKanika Batra31:34

       The biggest problem with

    5. CWChris Williamson31:35

       ...you've said that you love revenge.

    6. KBKanika Batra31:38

       Yes.

    7. CWChris Williamson31:39

       Why?

    8. KBKanika Batra31:40

       Because I believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. If you are ready and willing to make me feel like shit about something, you should be prepared to feel the same back. Like recently, I had some ugly girl comment on my video saying, "Oh, you're not 40 kilos. You're more like 62, and you're like lo- you're like you're losing your attractiveness. You need a bit of brain." And I was like, "Listen, bitch, I am, like, I am 40 kilos. If you would like to watch the scale, you can." And then, uh, I was just like, "If you think that you should be making commentary, I feel like you have not seen a mirror in a very, very long time." And so I have my best friends who will, like, go and sort of swarm as well. So like, if you're willing to try and, like, knock, knock at me because I had an eating disorder growing up, and that's also what happened in the group. They were constantly trying to call me fat so that I would go back to an eating disorder.

    9. CWChris Williamson32:34

       Hmm.

    10. KBKanika Batra32:35

        Yeah, so the-- F-fucking women, I swear to God. Um, and so yeah, so, um, I'm telling her to go to the gym. Like, you can see the fat rolls on her face.

    11. CWChris Williamson32:44

        Hmm.

    12. KBKanika Batra32:44

        And she-- Like, I am exactly [chuckles] 40 kilos.

    13. CWChris Williamson32:48

        What, what is the most extreme length that you've gone through to get revenge on someone?

    14. KBKanika Batra33:00

        Oh, okay. So there was a girl I did pageants with, so she won a pageant, and she went to the International. And anyway, so she came back. We did Miss World together, and she was super arrogant, and she was really, really rude. She'd get under my skin a lot. So she would say, like, certain races shouldn't be able to compete, certain people shouldn't be able to compete, short girls shouldn't be able to compete. And I was like, "All right, this bi- it's time for this bitch to learn a lesson." So I deleted anything controversial that I said. I screen recorded the whole thing, um, and then I sent it to every single girl that she had insulted. I sent it to the pageant director, who in- immediately kicked her out of the competition because she is-- she's a liability at that point. So they throw her out, and it's her last year to actually be in pageants 'cause she's too old, so she can't compete again. And that's what I took the most satisfaction in. If you're saying that someone like me shouldn't compete, you will never compete.

    15. CWChris Williamson33:57

        Hmm.

    16. KBKanika Batra33:57

        And so, yeah, she, she was completely taken out. And then I decided to take it an extra level. Um, I reached out to Miss Venezuela, and Miss Venezuela has millions of people who support her. And let's-- luckily, this, this woman, she was awful enough to let me know that she let Miss Venezuela sleep through her alarm and miss the preliminary finals.

    17. CWChris Williamson34:23

        Hmm.

    18. KBKanika Batra34:23

        And so I told her, I'm like, "You know, she purposely didn't let you go." And then I think the entire country of Venezuela that is in love with pageants turned on this girl, and they were leaving so many hate comments for like months, and she had to go private. And then she s- [chuckles] she got a lawyer. And let's just say she works in retail, so it would have taken her hours and hours and hours and weeks to earn enough money to get a lawyer to send me a cease and desist letter to which I responded, "Lol," because if she had actually anything against me, if she had the means to sue me, she would have done so. She wouldn't have given me a cease and desist.

    19. CWChris Williamson35:04

        And this is because she said some mean words to you-

    20. KBKanika Batra35:07

        Uh, yeah

    21. CWChris Williamson35:08

        ...and was making racist comments and stuff.

    22. KBKanika Batra35:10

        That, that's it, yeah.

    23. CWChris Williamson35:12

        You managed to set the entire country of Venezuela on-

    24. KBKanika Batra35:15

        Yeah

    25. CWChris Williamson35:16

        ...this person?

    26. KBKanika Batra35:16

        Yeah.

    27. CWChris Williamson35:17

        Okay.

11. 35:19 – 37:53

    Are Sociopaths Obsessed With Status?

    1. CWChris Williamson35:19

       Have you been to jail?

    2. KBKanika Batra35:20

       No, sir.

    3. CWChris Williamson35:23

       Certainly some things you've done that could have got you to go to jail.

    4. KBKanika Batra35:25

       Oh, absolutely, absolutely. But people wouldn't believe it. Like, people don't-- Look at me. Like, would, would you think that I do anything that I do? That you wouldn't. And I'm generally quite smart. Like-

    5. CWChris Williamson35:36

       Hmm

    6. KBKanika Batra35:37

       ...I tested 138, and I'm never testing again in case it, it's lower than that 'cause I couldn't live with that shame.

    7. CWChris Williamson35:43

       It seems like with a few of the things that you've brought up, um, "I am 40 kilos, I promise," uh, "My IQ is 138," like, "I don't want to test again in case it goes back," um, some sensitivity around people saying w-what's happening with your age, what's-- whatever. It feels like, uh, status and, um, renown, uh, competence, reputation. It feels like that, that, that's a core-

    8. KBKanika Batra36:13

       It is. It is. I, I-

    9. CWChris Williamson36:13

       ...part of what it is that you desire. Is that right?

    10. KBKanika Batra36:15

        A-absolutely. I think that is what comes from the narcissism a- as whereas, like, the ASPD or the psychopathy is more the machine in my brain that tells me to slow down and do it in a way that doesn't, like, blow back at me, so-

    11. CWChris Williamson36:29

        Oh, so you've got-- That's an interesting way to look at it, that one is a, one is an engine and the other-

    12. KBKanika Batra36:33

        Yes

    13. CWChris Williamson36:33

        ...is a brake pedal.

    14. KBKanika Batra36:34

        Exactly. Exactly.

    15. CWChris Williamson36:36

        Hmm.

    16. KBKanika Batra36:36

        That's how I see it.

    17. CWChris Williamson36:37

        Hmm.

    18. KBKanika Batra36:37

        Um, I hate the narcissism. I'm not gonna lie. I wish I could just be, just not worry about other people saying like-- thinking that they're better than me. Like, I wish I could say that. [chuckles] I wish I could actually be in a position where I don't care so much about looks, um, i-intelligence, worth, status.

    19. CWChris Williamson36:55

        Hmm.

    20. KBKanika Batra36:56

        Um, but I feel like those are objective metrics that have been proven. Like, if you're in a beauty pageant, there's certain, there's a certain level of ... a beauty that you've attained. If you do extremely well on your year 12 exams, which I did, then you have intelligence. If you have a, an actual quantifiable number of your IQ, that shows that you're not dumb. So when someone says that those things aren't true or they'll accuse me of having a fake nose 'cause it's small or breast implants, it's like that's my genetic superiority, and you're trying to say that I'm a normal person who had to go pay for it, and it pisses me off-

    21. CWChris Williamson37:35

        Mm

    22. KBKanika Batra37:35

        ... so much. And that's why my psychiatrist was like, "We need to detach you from these things because it's gonna be really, really bad when you do age," like when... And like my, my parents look really good.

    23. CWChris Williamson37:46

        Mm.

    24. KBKanika Batra37:47

        Like-

    25. CWChris Williamson37:47

        No, because it's coming.

    26. KBKanika Batra37:48

        Yeah, it, it will be coming. But my parents-

    27. CWChris Williamson37:49

        How old are you?

    28. KBKanika Batra37:51

        I am 30.

    29. CWChris Williamson37:52

        Cool.

12. 37:53 – 46:58

    Has Kanika Ever Wanted to Kill Someone?

    1. CWChris Williamson37:53

       Have you ever wanted to kill anything?

    2. KBKanika Batra37:54

       Yes.

    3. CWChris Williamson37:56

       What?

    4. KBKanika Batra37:56

       People.

    5. CWChris Williamson37:57

       Okay.

    6. KBKanika Batra37:58

       Yeah.

    7. CWChris Williamson37:59

       How'd that go?

    8. KBKanika Batra38:00

       [laughs] Um, not so well yet because I have a lot of people around me who would stop it from happening, but I would plan it over a long period of time. There are some people, like in that SNARK group, for example-

    9. CWChris Williamson38:13

       The Reddit thing?

    10. KBKanika Batra38:14

        Yeah, yeah. I would absolutely just skin them if I could, like physically myself, like Katherine Knight.

    11. CWChris Williamson38:21

        Who's that?

    12. KBKanika Batra38:22

        Uh, she's an Australian woman, the first woman to get, um, life in prison without parole because she ended up... So she killed her boyfriend because he didn't wanna get married, and he- she stabbed him like 100 and something times. Then she skinned him like a full skin suit and hung him up by the door. And then she c- cut off his head and [laughs] sorry, um, it was on the stove, and she cut off his like meaty parts and cooked them. And so she was gonna serve them to his children and-

    13. CWChris Williamson38:58

        That weren't her children, presumably.

    14. KBKanika Batra39:00

        Yeah.

    15. CWChris Williamson39:00

        Right.

    16. KBKanika Batra39:01

        And so that was-- And then she took some benzos and fell asleep and tried to act like she had an overdose. But, um, I feel like that's what they deserve, some of these people, for the hell that they put me through, especially because I was dying in the Maldives. Like I hadn't had a blood transfusion. My hemoglobin was so low, and my oxygen saturation was like, I was like on the edge of dying, and these bitches had the audacity to be planning this, writing an open letter to Kanika Batra. "If you don't do this and this and this and this, we're gonna destroy your life. We're gonna go into every part of your comment section," which they do. "We're gonna, like, send you horrific emails. We're gonna try and ma- give you bad reviews on your book," even though I know it's good, even though most people... I think I haven't gotten a single person saying it's bad. And so it, it's like if you have that capacity to treat me that way, you don't deserve to be on this planet.

    17. CWChris Williamson39:57

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    18. KBKanika Batra41:43

        It is actually.

    19. CWChris Williamson41:43

        Like, I, like that's, that's m- mean and horrible for anybody to go through, but also this person-

    20. KBKanika Batra41:50

        It's-

    21. CWChris Williamson41:51

        ... doesn't respond in the normal way to that.

    22. KBKanika Batra41:54

        No.

    23. CWChris Williamson41:55

        It's g- very, it's very interesting, and I'm noticing that coming up inside of me.

    24. KBKanika Batra41:58

        [laughs]

    25. CWChris Williamson41:58

        It's cool. Um, okay. So you would kill somebody if you could get away with it, you think?

    26. KBKanika Batra42:02

        Yes.

    27. CWChris Williamson42:02

        Okay. I've heard you talk about freedom, like not wanting to risk your freedom-

    28. KBKanika Batra42:09

        Yes

    29. CWChris Williamson42:09

        ... as a big part of this. Is that the main sort of utilitarian-

    30. KBKanika Batra42:13

        I would say so
13. 46:58 – 49:24

    Why is Kanika Fascinated By Rodney Alcala?

    1. KBKanika Batra46:58

       degenerate.

    2. CWChris Williamson46:58

       I've got a video that I want you to react to.

    3. KBKanika Batra47:01

       Sure.

    4. CWChris Williamson47:02

       Let's get this up, Mark.

    5. KBKanika Batra47:04

       Rodney Alcala.

    6. CWChris Williamson47:06

       Don't say it like that.

    7. SPSpeaker47:07

       It may be the creepiest episode ever on The Dating Game because this bachelor looking for love back in 1978 is actually a serial killer. I'm called The Banana-

    8. SPSpeaker47:18

       [laughs]

    9. SPSpeaker47:18

       ... and I look really good.

    10. SPSpeaker47:21

        [laughs]

    11. SPSpeaker47:22

        No one had any idea that Rodney Alcala had already launched his killing spree when he appeared on the popular dating show.

    12. SPSpeaker47:29

        He was a real creepy guy, a real idiot.

    13. SPSpeaker47:31

        Jed Mills was bachelor number two, and nearly 40 years later, he's still haunted by their encounter.

    14. SPSpeaker47:37

        This creep comes up, and he puts his face practically in my face, and he says, "I always get the girl." When I think about what he said-

    15. KBKanika Batra47:46

        Oh

    16. SPSpeaker47:46

        ... "I always get my girl," he kills them. That's what he's talking about.

    17. SPSpeaker47:50

        What's your best time? The best time is at night, nighttime.

    18. SPSpeaker47:57

        [laughs]

    19. SPSpeaker47:58

        Why do you say that? Because that's the only time- Despite Alcala's weird behavior on The Dating Game, the bachelorette chose him but never went on the date because she reportedly found him creepy. And lucky for her, because Alcala would later be found guilty of seven murders. Investigators believe he may have actually killed up to 130 victims based on photos found on his property.

    20. CWChris Williamson48:20

        Why did you respond that way when you saw him?

    21. KBKanika Batra48:22

        Uh, he's just someone I find really fascinating 'cause, um, I was actually watching a documentary on him probably about a year ago, and it was actually crazy how much he managed to get away with. Also, his eyes are so demonic. Like, you can just see in them there's nothing behind there. There's no soul in that at all, and you can see his contempt towards women. And if you'll notice, there's no Duchenne smile. Like, when he-

    22. CWChris Williamson48:48

        What's that?

    23. KBKanika Batra48:48

        So when it's a genuine smile, you'll see it up here as well. Like, there'll be crinkles. There, like, his stays entirely here, and so he's not being genuine at all. Like, if you look at his eyes-

    24. CWChris Williamson49:00

        Oh, wow

    25. KBKanika Batra49:00

        ... yeah, there's nothing there. And if you actually muted the video and played it, you can see the microexpressions on his face that he, he's getting, like, that delight from duping somebody

    26. CWChris Williamson49:11

        That's interesting. So the, your ability to convince somebody of something that you're not, that is itself rewarding?

    27. KBKanika Batra49:23

        I would say so,

14. 49:24 – 55:45

    What Is It Like Dating a Sociopath?

    1. KBKanika Batra49:24

       yeah.

    2. CWChris Williamson49:24

       What's your dating history like?

    3. KBKanika Batra49:27

       Always a serial monogamist. So I don't get into, like, I don't think that sexual activity or anything of that sort should be outside of a serious relationship. Ideally marriage, but s- serious relationship will do in this society. Um, and so because of that, I primarily date, uh, 'cause I am bisexual, but I would sort of have a, a number of different people that I would go on dates with, then I would selectively cut them off. Like, basically I would trim it down till I had the person I wanted.

    4. CWChris Williamson50:01

       Okay.

    5. KBKanika Batra50:02

       And then f- with them, like, you know, it's, it's fantastic to have somebody. But I could never really lift the mask for any of them 'cause, like, I couldn't be fully myself, and it's very tiring when you have to wear this mask constantly and you know that there's gonna be consequences [laughs] if you don't.

    6. CWChris Williamson50:22

       What does not wearing the mask look like in a relationship?

    7. KBKanika Batra50:25

       Like, it can get pretty ugly. Um, I, I do still get a lot of rage. And while I'm better at handling it, I get very, very frustrated at people around me for, like, not doing the right thing and backing me up immediately or doing things like that. Um, I can't tell them honestly about things that I've done because it's just, it, it's too much to fathom. Like, there's this, um, there's an article that I mention a lot, The Hidden Suffering of the Psychopath, and it shows how lonely psychopaths get even if they're dating multiple people. Like, they're, like, even, say Ted, that's, that's why they believe that, you know, they believe that psychopaths can feel grief and love and whatnot. And so the problem is, is that loneliness and that wedge between you and other people can turn you into someone who commits violence.

    8. CWChris Williamson51:18

       Hmm.

    9. KBKanika Batra51:18

       And for me, that wasn't what I, what turned me, but I knew I couldn't really, like, l- show people how I am outside of, like, the social things that they experience me at. Like, they don't, um, like, everyone's always like, "You don't seem like a psychopath," and, "You don't seem like you have this and this and this." And it's like, "Well, if I told you what I actually thought, you'd probably think differently." So that's sort of the issue I have. And also, like, I get very, very tired of people. Like, if they're too high maintenance and I, like, they're constantly texting, constantly calling, it's like, why don't you get another job? Because if you w- like, you have so much time on your hands and you wanna chat on the phone all day, like, I have things to do. So it's like, the, the clinginess I can't deal with, but then again, nonchalant I can't really deal with either.

    10. CWChris Williamson52:08

        Hmm.

    11. KBKanika Batra52:08

        It kind of has to be this happy balance, and trust me, it was very hard to find that.

    12. CWChris Williamson52:14

        I've heard that you say you have pure contempt for most partners after three months.

    13. KBKanika Batra52:17

        Yes.

    14. CWChris Williamson52:18

        What was happening there?

    15. KBKanika Batra52:20

        I think I would start to see them as the real person that they were instead of the fantasy that I projected onto them. And, like, I tend to put people on a pedestal sometimes, and I also actually really love giving gifts and I love love bombing. I do it naturally. It's not, it's not necessarily planned. So I love doing all of that, and then they get hooked on it, and then they start getting really, really obsessive. They'll be like, "Oh, okay, why aren't you calling me more?" "Oh, are you seeing other people? You must be seeing other people." And so there's this, like, contempt, like I have to handle this creature. I have to, like, care about it and do good things for it.

    16. CWChris Williamson52:57

        Hmm.

    17. KBKanika Batra52:57

        And it's like, it just becomes, like, pros versus cons. It's like-

    18. CWChris Williamson53:00

        Well, you want to do it on your terms because-

    19. KBKanika Batra53:02

        Exactly

    20. CWChris Williamson53:02

        ... you want to love bomb them when you want to love bomb them.

    21. KBKanika Batra53:04

        Exactly. Exactly. [laughs]

    22. CWChris Williamson53:06

        But you don't want to do it when they want it.

    23. KBKanika Batra53:10

        No. No. It's, that's partially, I would say it, but also l- also I would say that it's just overwhelming because my internal system is flat. It's completely flat, whereas people's spikes and it drops, and it's like, I, I don't have time for that. I don't want to deal with that. That's also why I would never actually, um, date or truly be friends with someone with borderline personality disorder because their abandonment [laughs] issues are something severe. Like, I had one who would text me literally, like, five times an hour who, because I wasn't responding or my tone seemed wrong, and it's just like, ugh, like I have important things to do. Like, she was threatening suicide every weekend, so I had to be on the, on the phone with emergency services telling them that she'd cut her, her wrists in a shallow manner, and it was so frustrating. She'd have all of these tears constantly. And I was like, "I can't deal with this. This is not my problem." I just c- I'd get fed up.

    24. CWChris Williamson54:11

        Hmm. Well, it kind of is your problem if you're in a relationship with someone, right?

    25. KBKanika Batra54:13

        Yeah.

    26. CWChris Williamson54:13

        'Cause you want them to be there for you when you need them. Your friend who stayed up until 4:00 in the morning, you have an awful lot of respect and-

    27. KBKanika Batra54:21

        Oh, yes. I would do that

    28. CWChris Williamson54:21

        ... gratitude for her for doing that.

    29. KBKanika Batra54:22

        Absolutely.

    30. CWChris Williamson54:23

        But if your partner was either attempting to or threatening to take her own life, that felt like that was burdensome to you.
15. 55:45 – 1:00:30

    Why Kanika Struggles With Male Power

    1. CWChris Williamson55:45

       Given the I find it hard to not feel straight contempt for somebody after three months, slightly non-typical approach when it comes to scrutinizing partners and dating multiple people, at least in the beginning at once. Given that, why have you gotten into dating advice?

    2. KBKanika Batra56:05

       Because other people need to learn science and manipulation. Especially I got started when it was like the Red Pill podcasts and everyone was like trying to degrade women and make women hu- humble women, tell them that they're not special, tell them that like... There was the li- the advice was literally on par with the infographs on domestic violence. So the isolating, the gaslighting, like the triangulation, making her feel crazy. Like I know how that works 'cause I've done that before. So I figured like, you know, I have all of these women who all of a sudden like me, and they are having so many problems. They like email me every single day and say, "Oh, I have this happening, I have this happening. Please help me. No one else can help me." And so I guess 'cause I come across as like ruthless sometimes or very friendly at other times, they get the impression that I will care about what they're dealing with. [chuckles] So-

    3. CWChris Williamson56:58

       Do you?

    4. KBKanika Batra56:59

       Only once, I think. Only once. Like it was, it was a bad situation.

    5. CWChris Williamson57:04

       It's interesting because you're obviously passionate about this topic, but you still don't really care about the people that are going through it. It's like you seem to care about the sort of symbolic injustice-

    6. KBKanika Batra57:18

       Yes

    7. CWChris Williamson57:18

       ... but not the human side.

    8. KBKanika Batra57:20

       Exactly.

    9. CWChris Williamson57:21

       Also, I'm noticing throughout the conversation a lot of, um, male power over women is a big bugbear for you, especially manipulative male power over women, that that's something that shouldn't happen. Perhaps history, abuse, assault, also maybe seeing dad with mum. Have you, have you tried to sort of reverse en- reverse engineer where this, uh, uh, evangelism for not having men manipulate women comes from? I mean, you know-

    10. KBKanika Batra57:50

        Absolutely

    11. CWChris Williamson57:50

        ... everybody should be able to agree that that's bad, but-

    12. KBKanika Batra57:51

        Yeah

    13. CWChris Williamson57:52

        ... for you it, it has a different flavor to it.

    14. KBKanika Batra57:54

        Absolutely. So obviously with Indian culture, it's very patriarchal. Um, and so men have the final say in everything. And when I was 13, my mom told me that it was time for me to learn how to cook. I said, "Sure, is my brother learning too?" And she's like, "No, you're a girl. You do it." And I was like, "Fuck that. I'm not gonna do this." So I was just like, "No, I'm not gonna play into this." And then obviously I've seen, uh, the dynamic online. I've been on the receiving end. Like I, I absolutely would annihilate anyone who would neg me. Like yeah, so that would happen a lot. Like at a casino at one point, a guy was like, "Yeah, you're, you're hot, but you're not that hot. Like you're not like... I wouldn't go for someone like you normally." I was like, "Listen, you're five foot six and fat. No one wants you, especially not me." Um, but yeah, I do feel that I, I have had a mental soft spot for women going through abuse, but, but everyone except the one man who r-aged me, every other person who's ever been good to me has been a man, and every person who's caused me stress or caused me any kind of struggle in life is always women. Women were in that group. Women are, are in my comment section like, oh, policing my tone. Women are the ones spreading rumors. Women are the problem.

    15. CWChris Williamson59:21

        Interesting that most of your protection is of women against men, but at least in your experience, most of your good treatment has been from men and not from women.

    16. KBKanika Batra59:33

        Literally. Men have always helped me. Men have been... My dad's loved me forever. Men on the street help me parallel park.

    17. CWChris Williamson59:39

        So what do you think is going on there? Square that circle.

    18. KBKanika Batra59:42

        You know what's really odd is, okay, so I had this initially, I didn't think men had feelings. Like I literally thought men don't have emotions.

    19. CWChris Williamson59:51

        Mm-hmm.

    20. KBKanika Batra59:52

        So seeing someone have emotions, it was like, okay, maybe they, they do. Um, but realizing that they're the ones who have assisted me since like day one, and they're the ones who have supported me and been like loyal, apart from my two female friends. It's just, I don't know why I had the advocacy for women.

    21. CWChris Williamson1:00:16

        Hmm.

    22. KBKanika Batra1:00:16

        And I don't know, like I actually have quite a contempt for some of my audience because they're very leftist sort of feminists, and they want me to be like on their terms about like gender and shit, and I don't believe in that.

    23. CWChris Williamson1:00:29

        Okay.

16. 1:00:30 – 1:06:05

    Is This the Best Dating Advice For Women?

    1. CWChris Williamson1:00:31

       What are the best pieces of dating advice you've got for women?

    2. KBKanika Batra1:00:33

       So never sleep with them until they, you're in a serious relationship because your body wasn't meant to be used by multiple people regularly, and also your heart wasn't designed to break for so many people. Um, I would always make sure that you are actually safe. You, you don't have like any concerns about red flags. So you should, like I put out some advice in terms of red flags. Like if he's pushing too soon in terms of he's flooding you with attention, he's giving you everything you want. He's so... He's basically everything that you think of all through the day That's a bad thing. That's really, really bad. You don't, you don't wanna-- You don't want a guy who is making you feel like that because he's depriving you of contact from other people who will pull you back into reality. Also, um, I tend to tell women not to save people's names under their actual name and to use a mildly insulting term to keep them there, like to, for their contact name. And then also turn off-

    3. CWChris Williamson1:01:39

       But hang on, hang on. Why?

    4. KBKanika Batra1:01:41

       Let me get to it.

    5. CWChris Williamson1:01:42

       Okay.

    6. KBKanika Batra1:01:42

       Also, turn off notifications on Instagram and on, uh, any other platforms, and also turn off your activity status. So I do this because, one, dopamine comes in real quick from attention from this person. So you don't wanna have the, the life sucked out of you because you've slowly been developing this level of respect for this person. Like, let me put it this way. If I have a guy saved on my phone as Hepatitis B, how sad would I be [chuckles] if Hepati-Hepatitis B didn't text me back on time?

    7. CWChris Williamson1:02:19

       Mm-hmm.

    8. KBKanika Batra1:02:19

       So women get really obsessed, like, with their Instagram status because they would be like, "Okay, this guy was active nine minutes ago. I sent him a message 10 hours ago." So they start to feel like there's something wrong with them. But if you have your notifications and your status off, you don't know when he was online. He doesn't know when you were online. You're mysterious. Um, so it's, it's, it's like, it's a, it's a place where you don't feel the hurt if you don't get a text from him. So you're, you're priming your body to be neutral instead of like emotionally connecting onto someone who you don't really know him very well. And also, I would say don't text all the time because that's creating more intimacy than is actually capable and real at the, at, at the moment. Like, the false intimacy that comes from texting for like weeks and weeks before meeting is ridiculous.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:03:14

       Hmm. I understand maybe in early dating not falling too fast for someone that you don't trust is perhaps not Hepatitis B, but it's a-

    10. KBKanika Batra1:03:22

        [laughs]

    11. CWChris Williamson1:03:22

        ... it's not a bad solution-

    12. KBKanika Batra1:03:24

        Yep

    13. CWChris Williamson1:03:24

        ... generally.

    14. KBKanika Batra1:03:24

        Yeah.

    15. CWChris Williamson1:03:25

        But eventually, do you advise women to completely remove their mask as well?

    16. KBKanika Batra1:03:30

        Yes. So I would say to women, until you are engaged, you're single, and you should, you should maintain, you know, your body. You shouldn't be out sleeping with people. Don't date five people and sleep with them. That's not where we're at. Um, and so that's kind of where I go to tell women. And then, so another thing with the Orthodox Church, it tells you that, um, marriage is when you become a martyr for each other. And I think if there's no investment in you first, you don't need to be a martyr for anybody. Like-

    17. CWChris Williamson1:04:05

        But you were also concerned about somebody investing in you too much first.

    18. KBKanika Batra1:04:10

        Well, well, yeah, 'cause that's love bombing.

    19. CWChris Williamson1:04:12

        But you just said that you like to love bomb people early on in a relationship.

    20. KBKanika Batra1:04:15

        I know.

    21. CWChris Williamson1:04:16

        You do?

    22. KBKanika Batra1:04:17

        I do, yeah. But-

    23. CWChris Williamson1:04:18

        So it's okay for you to do it, but it's worrying if somebody-- it's a red flag if a guy does it for a girl?

    24. KBKanika Batra1:04:23

        It's worrying both ways 'cause there's plenty of female psychopaths. You just don't really hear about them.

    25. CWChris Williamson1:04:27

        So you would be saying to, if you were advising the guys that you were dating, if there was two of you-

    26. KBKanika Batra1:04:32

        Yeah

    27. CWChris Williamson1:04:33

        ... and you saw you behaving the way that you do with guys-

    28. KBKanika Batra1:04:36

        [laughs]

    29. CWChris Williamson1:04:36

        ... what do you think you would advise the guys?

    30. KBKanika Batra1:04:38

        So basically an antidote to someone like me?
17. 1:06:05 – 1:13:14

    How Kanika Met Her Husband

    1. CWChris Williamson1:06:05

       What's the story about you and your husband?

    2. KBKanika Batra1:06:07

       Okay. So we met when I was doing Miss Universe New Zealand and I went on a date with him which was meant to be a double date with my friend and that guy bailed so it was just like him with two Miss Universe girls and he got really, really nervous beforehand. But we just hit it off so fast. So we were talking about politics, like we had the same belief system. I didn't have to lie and say I was like a leftist for a leftist person. So I was-- He was a genuine conservative, I'm a genuine conservative. He was like con... He was consistent with his effort and he was such a cheapskate at that time so if he, he went out of his way to go buy new clothes to see me and I appreciate that. I appreciate putting in like, putting in time and effort for somebody because that's also what I will do if I truly find interest in somebody. I will dress how they like. I will be, you know, make sure I'm in their corner always. But he was fantastic. Um, we had a couple of dates before I had to go back to Australia and then I flew him to Australia with my money and he never left. So we kind of moved in together. He moved into my parents' house which was Pretty taboo at the time, but I mean, they weren't too angry because they s- they saw that he was genuine. And after three months, I didn't feel contempt. I felt happy. Like, I felt open, like I can actually talk about things.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:07:31

       What was the difference?

    4. KBKanika Batra1:07:33

       I think 'cause he's so calm. Like, he's this anchor that I've never really had outside of my father, and he is one of the best men I've ever known. Like, he doesn't even eat if I haven't eaten. And he is-- Like, he's known as Floor Guy because when I go to transfusions, he sleeps on the floor with me [chuckles] while I'm getting transfused. And, like, there's not a lot of people who would go to those lengths. Like, like the way he sponsored my Europe trip, like, he was working so hard, and he does so much for me. He does so much for our, like, fur babies, and he has the values that I've always really appreciated.

    5. CWChris Williamson1:08:14

       Is this the first time... Do you, are you in love? Is that-

    6. KBKanika Batra1:08:17

       Yes.

    7. CWChris Williamson1:08:18

       Right.

    8. KBKanika Batra1:08:18

       Yes.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:08:18

       Is this the first time you've felt that?

    10. KBKanika Batra1:08:20

        Uh, I don't know. There was one before, but it wasn't the same. This is like, this is something that can endure. I didn't think that one could endure, the first one.

    11. CWChris Williamson1:08:31

        Is it difficult being in a relationship? You mentioned, uh, if somebody says something, gets on my nerves, annoys me, agitates me, if they're doing something wrong, if they make me feel a certain way, negative, too much pushback, if I kind of don't get what I want. But in relationships, it's really important to have that push and pull because you don't always know what's right for you. And if it's somebody off the street or someone you have no loyalty with, that kind of doesn't matter. But if it's your partner, it's really important for them to push you into place to show you the blind spots. A lot of those blind spots are gonna be uncomfortable.

    12. KBKanika Batra1:09:05

        Yeah.

    13. CWChris Williamson1:09:05

        Like, if you do something, say, "Hey, you're being, you're being an asshole," and-

    14. KBKanika Batra1:09:09

        That's what he says. [chuckles]

    15. CWChris Williamson1:09:10

        But why is, is that not-

    16. KBKanika Batra1:09:12

        So-

    17. CWChris Williamson1:09:12

        Are you... I- is there a tension inside of you now? You've got this, this person, you've got the loyalty thing, but you've also got this very fundamental physics inside of your system that you've had for far longer than him.

    18. KBKanika Batra1:09:24

        Yes.

    19. CWChris Williamson1:09:25

        Do those two things clash?

    20. KBKanika Batra1:09:26

        They do clash a lot. Um, the thing is with him is that I see everything that he does for me, and I also give him grace because around him I don't have to wear a mask. So I can't like... Of course he, he causes agitation. Once in France, I, I was like, "You s- you s-" Like, when he was sleeping, I was like, "You snore like a fucking chainsaw," and it was pissing me off. And then I was trying to learn French on Duolingo, and he kept, like, being annoyed when the, the bell went off when I got something correct, and so I got really angry at him. But, um, the way I sort of handle the relationship with him is that we keep things pretty fresh. We change things around a lot because I don't like monotony. So-

    21. CWChris Williamson1:10:09

        What does that look like?

    22. KBKanika Batra1:10:10

        So we, like, travel to different places. We were involved with like, um, with just, like, going through the Epstein files. Like, we were onto that well before it was, like, being talked about the DOJ. And so we went there. We, we, we met up with Jeffrey's brother, Mark, who was nothing like Jeffrey. He's a great guy. Great, amazing guy. Um, and so we get into, like, weird places. Like, together we've been a force to be reckoned with. Alone, I can be sort of a, a, like an explosive that can go off at certain times or it could be like an ice block that melts over time. Um, but with him, he kind of will rein me in, and he can also do it in a way that I don't find disrespectful.

    23. CWChris Williamson1:10:57

        Hmm.

    24. KBKanika Batra1:10:57

        And I've had my fights with him. I mean, there was one time at the pool I went to with my friend Marie, who had a Asian background, and this white lady was like, "Oh, you two can't swim properly." And I, I was like, "I s- I've been swimming here every single day for, like, two years, so you can shut the fuck up." And so my husband, he didn't stand up for me there because he's not a confrontational person. And so I threatened to break up because I was like, "I can't deal with someone who won't stand up for me," because I'm a very confrontational person. If someone has a problem with me and they talk shit about me, I'll go directly to them. So that was sort of a problem we had at the start, and he was a little bit worried about, like, you know, what psychopathy is and all of that good-

    25. CWChris Williamson1:11:39

        I imagine he might have had a few questions.

    26. KBKanika Batra1:11:41

        Yes, yes.

    27. CWChris Williamson1:11:42

        Yeah. Yeah, that's-

    28. KBKanika Batra1:11:42

        He did

    29. CWChris Williamson1:11:43

        ... fair. In other news, have you ever noticed how some websites make it ridiculously easy to buy while some feel infinitely harder? Back in my day, I had to walk 10 miles to the local store. Aren't you younger than me? Yeah, but my dad got a DUI. Anyway, the reality is most businesses just get the website wrong, and if your setup is messy, you lose a ton of sales, which is why I'm such a massive fan of Shopify. They power 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including brands like Gymshark, Skims, Alo, and Neutonic. Because when it comes to converting browsers into buyers, they are best in class. Their checkout's 36% better on average compared to other platforms, and with Shop Pay can boost conversions by 50%. So upgrade your business and get the exact same checkout that we use at Neutonic with Shopify. You can sign up for a free trial period by going to the link in the description below or heading to shopify.com/modernwisdom. That's shopify.com/modernwisdom. In 2021, you said that you were scared of becoming an abuser.

    30. KBKanika Batra1:12:43

        Yes.
18. 1:13:14 – 1:22:56

    Should Women Follow Manipulative Dating Advice?

    1. CWChris Williamson1:13:14

       Yeah, I think, you know, looking at a lot of the dating advice that's in your book, some of the stuff that's on the website, it does feel quite manipulative. Is that fair to say?

    2. KBKanika Batra1:13:24

       I think it is fair, yeah.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:13:25

       Right. Do you think that teaching women manipulative dating tactics could cause them to introduce toxic games into actually healthy relationships?

    4. KBKanika Batra1:13:35

       I try to avoid that, especially with my coaching clients. I tell them where ruthlessness should begin and where it should end, and it should definitely end when you're in a secure relationship. You don't wanna damage that in any way, shape, or form. So I value people's relationships if they are good for them. But if some guy is, like, making you feel like shit, saying that they-- he's got better options than you, and he's treating you like you, you're nothing, like you're a speck of dust-

    5. CWChris Williamson1:14:03

       Hmm

    6. KBKanika Batra1:14:04

       ... then it- it's more than fair for me to tell them, like, "If you want to get revenge or if you want to feel in power again, like if you wanna be in power again, then you can use these methods." So you can have the benefits of psychopathy without the, all the negatives of psychopathy.

    7. CWChris Williamson1:14:21

       What are some of the methods?

    8. KBKanika Batra1:14:22

       Um, so the methods of-

    9. CWChris Williamson1:14:25

       Getting revenge on somebody or-

    10. KBKanika Batra1:14:26

        Oh, yes

    11. CWChris Williamson1:14:26

        ... or of, of regaining power-

    12. KBKanika Batra1:14:28

        Yes

    13. CWChris Williamson1:14:28

        ... especially early in a relationship, I suppose.

    14. KBKanika Batra1:14:30

        So basically, I've had a lot of women who, like, they, I don't know, slept with a guy for a while, and they don't know how to make him commit, and they don't want to, um, give him up. And so they'll book coaching calls with me, not take my advice, uh, 'cause they're, they're, they're weak. Women are weak. And so it pisses me off, but I still tell them, like, "This is what you need to do in terms of, uh, methods." Like, if he thinks he's better than you, show him your other options. Like, not directly, because men are stupid. Men know when things are happening. So don't rub it in his face. Just let him know about it. Just let him know you've got options and you're gonna put up with his shit. Um, I also tell them to have the shit tests, right? The shit tests are important because you need to see what he will do under different circumstances before you commit to him.

    15. CWChris Williamson1:15:19

        Hmm.

    16. KBKanika Batra1:15:20

        Um, and I think men should be able to do that as well. I just don't like the advice that, say, Fresh&Fit give of, like, making a woman feel like she's garbage so that she's, like, lowered her self-esteem to be with you. So that's not really what I tell people to do at all. Uh-

    17. CWChris Williamson1:15:38

        Sounds like some of the, some of the bits of advice that I've seen from you get perilously close to that.

    18. KBKanika Batra1:15:45

        Yeah.

    19. CWChris Williamson1:15:45

        You know, the push and pull that you're supposed to love bomb him and then withdraw it, that you should, uh, find out what makes him anxious and vulnerable and then know how to push those buttons in order to make him need you a lot. That to me feels just like an inversion of some of the worst bits of dating advice that have come from the other side of the fence.

    20. KBKanika Batra1:16:10

        Okay. So I feel like women can't do as much damage as men most of the time. There are some exceptions to that, of course. And I also know that women are very moderate, so they're gonna pull back what I say, and they're gonna not do that because they just can't. Like I, I have proven time and time again that they can't. They wanna live vicariously through me, but they cannot carry that out. But if they can carry it out to a point where they don't feel unstable, that's where you need to be.

    21. CWChris Williamson1:16:33

        Hmm.

    22. KBKanika Batra1:16:34

        So I know their limitations. I know that if I put them here to a certain extent and they, they obviously, you know, will not go to that level. They will not go to that line. They will be well before that line. It's kind of like when in your, in drama school when they, they're like, "Bring out all your energy and then draw it back in." So there's... Are there gonna be a couple of women who become genuinely abusive? Potentially. But I am not giving them any materials myself. Like if they choose to harm someone, that's not my fault. They can choose to take the advice in a book in general, or they could not.

    23. CWChris Williamson1:17:13

        If Andrew Tate published your book with the pronouns reversed, how do you think he'd describe it?

    24. KBKanika Batra1:17:19

        Pretty much his, like, it would be his ticket to fame, except without sex trafficking.

    25. CWChris Williamson1:17:29

        When it comes to dating advice though, a lot of what's being, what's being put across, like i-i-it seems like you really stand in opposition to men that are manipulating women, to, uh, men that are trying to use dopamine and psychology in an attempt to create a need-

    26. KBKanika Batra1:17:47

        Yes

    27. CWChris Williamson1:17:47

        ... that maybe isn't there, create a power differential, create a de- a degree of dependency.

    28. KBKanika Batra1:17:51

        Yeah.

    29. CWChris Williamson1:17:54

        You're saying that women-- men don't feel the impact of that in the same way that women do.

    30. KBKanika Batra1:17:59

        Yes.
19. 1:22:56 – 1:25:51

    How Does a Sociopath Handle a Breakup?

    1. CWChris Williamson1:22:56

       Tell me, tell me in the past how you've dealt with breakups.

    2. KBKanika Batra1:23:00

       [sighs] Okay. Um, so I broke up with... I tend to accidentally break up with guys on their birthdays. Um, so one guy, I broke up with him and he was like, he drove to my house and he was sitting outside and he was crying and he was texting me constantly, "Please come out, please come out, please come out."

    3. CWChris Williamson1:23:18

       On his birthday?

    4. KBKanika Batra1:23:19

       On his birthday.

    5. CWChris Williamson1:23:20

       Hmm.

    6. KBKanika Batra1:23:21

       I didn't know 'cause I didn't ask. So, um, I was like, "I'm not coming out. I'm not interested. I'm done. Please leave. And if you don't leave, like I'm not gonna come out regardless. It's late at night." So I just, I was watching him cry in the car. [laughs]

    7. CWChris Williamson1:23:36

       How did you feel when you were watching him cry?

    8. KBKanika Batra1:23:38

       I think I laughed a little bit and then eventually got really pathetic so I just closed the blinds. Um, other people, I, I tend to be as gentle as I can or I tend to just m- move very slowly away. So I'll start to draw back, like there'll be less communication, there'll be less, less effort from me. There'll be less prioritization. Like-

    9. CWChris Williamson1:24:03

       Not clean cut? You don't just say-

    10. KBKanika Batra1:24:05

        Sometimes I do. Sometimes I'm just like, "Okay, we have, we're incompatible in this, in this, in this, and these are things that we cannot overcome, so we just need to handle it."

    11. CWChris Williamson1:24:16

        Hmm.

    12. KBKanika Batra1:24:17

        And so I've dealt with all kinds of like breakups with people. So I think the most effective is generally fading away.

    13. CWChris Williamson1:24:26

        The most effective way to break up with somebody is-

    14. KBKanika Batra1:24:27

        Where... Yeah, because the ones that I tell them that, that we can't work out, they're always like, "Oh no, I can do this and I can do that and I can do this and we can make it work." It's like, "I don't want you to." And they don't take that as a final answer. They-

    15. CWChris Williamson1:24:42

        Even "I don't want you to" isn't taken as a final answer?

    16. KBKanika Batra1:24:44

        Yeah. That's happened to me plenty of times.

    17. CWChris Williamson1:24:50

        Rather than giving justifications, have... In the past did you try saying, "I don't want to be in this relationship anymore," and not give a justification?

    18. KBKanika Batra1:25:00

        Well, once I called a guy, I, I told him he was getting fat.

    19. CWChris Williamson1:25:03

        That's still a justification. "I don't want to be in this relationship anymore."

    20. KBKanika Batra1:25:08

        No. No, I would not do that.

    21. CWChris Williamson1:25:09

        S- why?

    22. KBKanika Batra1:25:10

        I don't know. I've just not been a person like that.

    23. CWChris Williamson1:25:12

        Interesting. I wonder, I wonder whether there's something about that utilitarian thing coming through again, that, well, there needs to be a, a ledger-

    24. KBKanika Batra1:25:19

        A, yeah, yeah

    25. CWChris Williamson1:25:19

        ... of some kind.

    26. KBKanika Batra1:25:20

        Yeah.

    27. CWChris Williamson1:25:20

        I have to have a justification for this. But that's actually, needing to have a justification for it is actually quite a human thing.

    28. KBKanika Batra1:25:26

        Yeah. So it's like letting them know that something exists.

    29. CWChris Williamson1:25:29

        Hmm.

    30. KBKanika Batra1:25:30

        Not necessarily them actually doing it.
20. 1:25:51 – 1:27:35

    Should You Ever Date a Sociopath?

    1. CWChris Williamson1:25:51

       Let's say that you had neurotypical children.

    2. KBKanika Batra1:25:55

       Yes.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:25:56

       Would you encourage them to date a sociopath?

    4. KBKanika Batra1:25:58

       Yes.

    5. CWChris Williamson1:25:59

       Why?

    6. KBKanika Batra1:26:00

       Because if you earn like a real, a real sociopath, a real psychopath, if they are genuinely on your team, you have someone who is willing to harm people for you. They are ride or die for you. They're in your corner. They're choosing to love you every single day. They're not a slave to their emotions and their brain chemicals. They are making an effort to be there for you. And Dr. K, he's from HealthyGamerGG, um, he even spoke on this. He said, "People who are capable of these heinous things have chosen to be on your side, and they will carry out the instrumental damage to other people for you, and they will be your shield."

    7. CWChris Williamson1:26:41

       Hmm.

    8. KBKanika Batra1:26:42

       So I think there's absolute- like first you vet the crap out of them. Vet them, vet them, vet them. Even so- a sociopath, psychopath, the mask slips regardless. If you, if I hung out with you for a week, it would slip fully. You would see it. No matter how hard I try, it, it will slip.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:26:58

       How long? 'Cause, you know, you can hold together a two-hour podcast relatively well.

    10. KBKanika Batra1:27:04

        [laughs]

    11. CWChris Williamson1:27:04

        What, w- when does it begin to get difficult? A couple of days in, a week in, a couple of weeks in?

    12. KBKanika Batra1:27:09

        Probably a week.

    13. CWChris Williamson1:27:10

        Okay.

    14. KBKanika Batra1:27:10

        A week you'll start seeing the-

    15. CWChris Williamson1:27:11

        And what, what does that look like? What does start seeing mean?

    16. KBKanika Batra1:27:13

        You start seeing like less enthusiastic responses. You'd see like less courteousness. Although, um-

    17. CWChris Williamson1:27:21

        More callous?

    18. KBKanika Batra1:27:21

        More callous. Definitely more callous.

    19. CWChris Williamson1:27:24

        Hmm.

    20. KBKanika Batra1:27:24

        Like it's less me trying to appease or, you know, trying to cater to somebody. It would be, you know, the true self coming out.

    21. CWChris Williamson1:27:33

        Hmm. Hmm.

21. 1:27:35 – 1:31:32

    Do Men Find Manipulation Attractive?

    1. CWChris Williamson1:27:35

       Do you think some men get turned on at the idea of-

    2. KBKanika Batra1:27:37

       Yeah

    3. CWChris Williamson1:27:37

       ... being manipulated?

    4. KBKanika Batra1:27:38

       Yeah, they do. They come into my DMs regularly. They're like asking me if I can manipulate them, and they'll give me money for it. And-

    5. CWChris Williamson1:27:46

       Is that pay pig stuff?

    6. KBKanika Batra1:27:47

       Pay pigs, yeah

    7. CWChris Williamson1:27:48

       ... like ma- manipulate pig stuff.

    8. KBKanika Batra1:27:49

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, pay pigs. And then there's like submissive men especially that will come up to me and they'll be like, "Oh, I find you so attractive," or, "I love that you could like make me do anything," and, "You say the most vile things and still are so hot." And so I get that a lot.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:28:05

       Hmm.

    10. KBKanika Batra1:28:05

        And I find it really repulsive because I d- anything that's linked, I guess, to sexual gratification is something I find really dirty. So-

    11. CWChris Williamson1:28:17

        Casually.

    12. KBKanika Batra1:28:18

        Yeah, casually. And that's exactly what they're wanting. I mean, they're getting off on it. I'm like, "It does nothing for me."

    13. CWChris Williamson1:28:25

        Interesting that I had a friend in university who was doing financial... fin dom.

    14. KBKanika Batra1:28:33

        Yeah.

    15. CWChris Williamson1:28:33

        Financial dominate, dominate trick thing. And this guy would send her... I didn't realize how it worked. It's fucking gnarly. This guy would send her his pay packet at the start of every week or at the start of every month, and she would drip feed him 50p, £1, £1.50 daily, and he would have to beg, and she would have this, all of these videos and stuff. And it was a consensual unconsensual relationship. Like, 'cause the whole premise was, "I need you to send me more." "No, I won't." But then at the start of each month, she would get his entire pay packet. And there was a time when the car was out of gas, and he was married with kids. The car was out of gas-

    16. KBKanika Batra1:29:16

        Oh my goodness

    17. CWChris Williamson1:29:17

        ... and he needed to drive to work, and she just sent him 50p and said, "Get the bus instead." And he said, "That can't even get me there." And she said, "Well, just walk." And you go, okay, at what point does this weird kind of self-mistreatment, kind of like financial self-harm-

    18. KBKanika Batra1:29:35

        It's like self-flagellation

    19. CWChris Williamson1:29:35

        ... that you're legitimating somebody else doing on your behalf.

    20. KBKanika Batra1:29:39

        Yeah.

    21. CWChris Williamson1:29:41

        Ethically, I still have no idea. That was-

    22. KBKanika Batra1:29:43

        It's like self-flagellation

    23. CWChris Williamson1:29:44

        ... 15 fucking years ago, and I still don't know how I feel about it.

    24. KBKanika Batra1:29:47

        Yeah.

    25. CWChris Williamson1:29:47

        Um, but it's strange that some people can get off sexually with that, and what your distaste is around is the fact that they're feeling sexual even if you don't feel it.

    26. KBKanika Batra1:30:00

        Yeah. I don't like them-

    27. CWChris Williamson1:30:01

        Now, that's very interesting

    28. KBKanika Batra1:30:02

        ... I don't like them, the feeling of them thinking they can, I guess, sexually have power over me.

    29. CWChris Williamson1:30:08

        Steal pleasure in a way.

    30. KBKanika Batra1:30:09

        Yeah, exactly.
22. 1:31:32 – 1:33:48

    Do Sociopaths Understand Themselves?

    1. CWChris Williamson1:31:32

       What are some of the things that you don't understand about yourself?

    2. KBKanika Batra1:31:35

       Why I have so many hypocritical positions on things. Um, why I've cultivated an audience that isn't anything like me. Like, I'm a conservative. I want a conservative base. I want to be able to talk about politics. I want to be able to talk about things that I care about, and My audience is just capturing me in this place where I have to pretend to care about their ridiculous and quite often degrading and degenerate behavior. Like, I've cultivated this, and it pisses me off. And then anything with psychopathy, it brings more women, more crazy women in my inbox. And it's like it's great if they're buying my book, okay? It's great if they're book-booking coaching sessions, but I hate them. So it's like this, there's this like duality of it.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:32:28

       Hmm.

    4. KBKanika Batra1:32:29

       And it's like you either provide me use or you don't. And that's kind of a position I have. I also don't know why I support women in general when w-when women have caused me the most harm out of everyone. Uh, I also feel like how I expect empathy and stuff from other people even though I can't re-re-reciprocate. Um, the weirdest thing about me is like, I would say-

    5. CWChris Williamson1:32:57

       Oh, the weirdest. Go on

    6. KBKanika Batra1:32:58

       ... yeah, the weirdest thing about me is that, um, I get really confused when people don't like me. Like, I will-- Like, I'm saying people I don't even know, and they're in relationships with other people who are not me. Like, it makes no sense. It's like [laughs] I, I, I know logically they don't know I exist, right? But it's like how can someone be in a relationship with someone who is not me?

    7. CWChris Williamson1:33:20

       Is that the grandiosity?

    8. KBKanika Batra1:33:21

       I think it is. I think that's narcissism.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:33:23

       Hmm.

    10. KBKanika Batra1:33:23

        Narcissism.

    11. CWChris Williamson1:33:24

        Hmm.

    12. KBKanika Batra1:33:25

        But yeah, like a really solid example of what a psychopath or alleged psychopath is, is Candace Owens. So over time, she drip feeds her audience like little bits of, "Ooh, here's more information about Charlie's death," even though it's got nothing to do with Charlie-

    13. CWChris Williamson1:33:42

        Hmm

    14. KBKanika Batra1:33:42

        ... and she's just trying to get views. That's, that's a psychopath's play in, in-

23. 1:33:48 – 1:35:39

    How to Detect a Sociopath

    1. CWChris Williamson1:33:48

       How, uh, how can someone detect if another person's a sociopath or a psychopath?

    2. KBKanika Batra1:33:54

       First the eyes, then you could do a simple test like the yawn test, smile test. We don't yawn when you yawn. We don't smile. Laughing isn't contagious for us. We will generally mirror what you, your positions are. Tilted head means more like they-- like we're looking like we're actually trying to understand everything you're saying. Remembering your name, all of those things that are very, very specific. Uh, compliments on obscure things. Like I, I like people's noses and so like I think you have a nice nose, and I think there's like Rob Lowe is my ideal 'cause, 'cause he's got like the perfect most tiny little nose. So things like that, like there's the peculiarities of psychopaths. Um, and another, uh, thing that you would notice is so we have weird justifications in our head for things. And so you know BTK, Dennis Rader?

    3. CWChris Williamson1:34:46

       No. Who's that?

    4. KBKanika Batra1:34:46

       So he, he wouldn't... He was a serial killer, uh, bind, torture, kill.

    5. CWChris Williamson1:34:50

       Okay.

    6. KBKanika Batra1:34:51

       Yeah. He wouldn't rape the women because, that he killed because he said that would be cheating on his wife. And, uh, what's it? Ed, Ed Kemper was like, "Yeah, I killed her, but I never hit her." So it's like there's this weird little things that you'll notice that are off.

    7. CWChris Williamson1:35:06

       Hmm.

    8. KBKanika Batra1:35:06

       And there are-- You'll tell that there's-- if, if you can study people's faces, there'll be little microaggressions. Like w- usually when you lie and get away with it, there's like a little bit of a smile coming up like-

    9. CWChris Williamson1:35:16

       Hmm

    10. KBKanika Batra1:35:17

        ... and like I don't know what the direct term for it is, but that's really, really something you'll see. And also with actions you'll see. Psychopaths will help you only when it's useful for them generally, but if they are helping you in times that you are offering nothing in return, then you've made it into sort of a successful relationship with a

24. 1:35:39 – 1:38:44

    The World’s Most Famous Sociopaths

    1. KBKanika Batra1:35:39

       psychopath.

    2. CWChris Williamson1:35:40

       Who do you think some of the most famous sociopaths in the world out there at the moment are?

    3. KBKanika Batra1:35:44

       Candace Owens. Um, Justin Trudeau. Uh, Gavin Newsom. J.D. Vance. Uh, who else?

    4. CWChris Williamson1:35:58

       J.D., but not Trump?

    5. KBKanika Batra1:35:59

       Not Trump. Trump's a narc. He's a narcissist.

    6. CWChris Williamson1:36:02

       Okay.

    7. KBKanika Batra1:36:02

       Yeah. Uh, who else is... There are so many pe- Kevin Spacey. Please don't kill me, Kevin Spacey. [laughs] They all seem to go.

    8. CWChris Williamson1:36:16

       I think you're the wrong gender for Kevin.

    9. KBKanika Batra1:36:18

       True, true. Uh, who else? Um, Angelina Jolie.

    10. CWChris Williamson1:36:24

        I think Angelina's a-

    11. KBKanika Batra1:36:25

        Yeah, yeah

    12. CWChris Williamson1:36:25

        ... sociopath.

    13. KBKanika Batra1:36:26

        I, I think the front of being an ambassador for charities and not speaking out for the Jews and not actually acknowledging that women were raped and tortured on the 7th of October in 2023-

    14. CWChris Williamson1:36:39

        Hmm

    15. KBKanika Batra1:36:39

        ... that's really hypocritical. She loves stealing other people's man. Like she, she literally breaks up relationships on like a regular basis. She seems to use people a lot for what they have, and nothing that she does seems like it, it is genuine affection. But also, also Mark Zuckerberg is like a lizard. You can see he doesn't blink. That's something you should probably look into.

    16. CWChris Williamson1:37:04

        That-- No, so the, the Mark Zuckerberg thing, that was before he had his sartorial revamp.

    17. KBKanika Batra1:37:12

        Yes.

    18. CWChris Williamson1:37:12

        As soon as he started wearing chains, all of that stuff went away.

    19. KBKanika Batra1:37:14

        Yeah.

    20. CWChris Williamson1:37:15

        I-- Look, I've spent time, I've spent time with Mark and I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna fucking lock in. I'm gonna lock in on this guy-

    21. KBKanika Batra1:37:20

        Yeah

    22. CWChris Williamson1:37:20

        ... and I'm gonna check like is there a second set of eyelids or whatever." I'm not here to fucking shill for Meta or, or, or-

    23. KBKanika Batra1:37:26

        No

    24. CWChris Williamson1:37:26

        ... Zuck at all, but like he is outstandingly normal. Like outstandingly normal. Uh, I watched him and Jocko Willink roll BJJ together. I don't know. I, I looked, I looked real close and I'm like, "This is the-"

    25. KBKanika Batra1:37:43

        You really didn't notice anything?

    26. CWChris Williamson1:37:45

        No. I'm pretty good at reading people, um-

    27. KBKanika Batra1:37:46

        Really?

    28. CWChris Williamson1:37:47

        Yeah, yeah. I'm pretty good at reading people and I really d- I didn't see Anything at all. A nice guy around his family, nice guy around his kids-

    29. KBKanika Batra1:37:55

        But you don't know-

    30. CWChris Williamson1:37:56

        ... like his wife
25. 1:38:44 – 1:43:32

    The Link Between Sociopathy and Sadism

    1. CWChris Williamson1:38:44

       But you haven't talked about that, Ma- we haven't talked about the sadism thing. You've talked about wanting to get revenge on people if some girl says something that's mean, and then you do something. The sadism side seems to have fallen away a little bit.

    2. KBKanika Batra1:38:58

       Well, I haven't really gone into detail on it. [laughs]

    3. CWChris Williamson1:39:00

       Well, let's go into detail. Tell me about the sadism part of it.

    4. KBKanika Batra1:39:03

       So I purpose- like, there's a lot of people that I, it purposely, like, I tell them that I like them and whatnot. I, like, l- show them vulnerability so that they'll show me theirs, and then I actually enjoy watching them suffer. I'll give them incorrect advice so that I know that they are lit- not, not my clients, but literally I will lead them astray. I know exactly how to turn them. I know exactly how their mind works. I can make them or I can break them. And seeing someone begging you to see them and, like, being a fully grown man crying, there's a satisfaction in that. There's a lot of satisfaction in that.

    5. CWChris Williamson1:39:40

       What's the sensation?

    6. KBKanika Batra1:39:41

       It's thrill. It's like a thrill. It's like adrenaline. It's like, "Oh my God, look at what he's willing to do for me."

    7. CWChris Williamson1:39:46

       Hmm. Like power.

    8. KBKanika Batra1:39:47

       The power, yeah. So, uh, someone submitting, I guess. And that's something I, I like outside of, I guess, sexual relationships or romantic relationships. I don't really like submissive men. I think they're disgusting. But I'm saying in terms of, like, seeing emotional pain, that is something that I enjoy. Like, I write the most e- like, I think funny insults, and I'm like, I'm like, "You have less integrity than Reinhard Heydrich," so let's not get into that. Um, but there's a certain sort of suffering, like, where you leave a emotional gap for them that they n- desperately need closure from you.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:40:26

       Hmm.

    10. KBKanika Batra1:40:26

        And so they'll, like, run, like, run in circles trying to please you, trying to get that out of you, and I will never give that person closure because I know then I'll have control over them for the rest of their lives. People try to get over it, but I've had people from nine years ago tell me that they're having dreams about me, and so I feel like to a level it's working. And there's also with the physical sa- uh, uh, the physical sadism was more something in childhood.

    11. CWChris Williamson1:40:55

        Hmm.

    12. KBKanika Batra1:40:55

        Like, I would enjoy watching them get injured. I would enjoy watching them, like, bleed. I guess I would enjoy pushing her off the stool because every single day she had a new bruise. Um, I used to... But now I think because I guess there's an element of being charged as a, as an adult for crimes like that or, like, for fraud or if I start stealing credit cards again or if I see people. Like, for example, when I stole a credit card from a girl's wallet at university, I went and I was comforting her while she was like, "Someone went on a shopping spree with my card." And I was like, "That is so awful. People are despicable. People are really bad." I was, like, hugging her. Meanwhile, I was spending all her money. So there was that kind of delight in, like, watching her do that. And then, you know, the girl that I ruined the pageant one, there was so much, like, joy in seeing her, like, go into a level of depression that seemed unbearable because her depression is not like my depression as that, I don't think it is. Um, so seeing that struggle p-

    13. CWChris Williamson1:42:02

        That one felt righteous though to you.

    14. KBKanika Batra1:42:04

        It's righteous though. I feel, I feel-

    15. CWChris Williamson1:42:05

        It feels like those are s- I, I... Did the girl with the credit card do anything?

    16. KBKanika Batra1:42:09

        No, she canceled the card and-

    17. CWChris Williamson1:42:11

        I mean, did she do anything-

    18. KBKanika Batra1:42:12

        No

    19. CWChris Williamson1:42:12

        ... to justify the stealing of the card?

    20. KBKanika Batra1:42:13

        No, I just wanted to.

    21. CWChris Williamson1:42:14

        I can, so I can see this is where, for me, the real discomfort comes in, which is if you do something to someone and you get an outsized piece of revenge, horrible, very painful, but at least in the equation of normal human psychology, you can understand it. It's when it's senseless.

    22. KBKanika Batra1:42:36

        Oh.

    23. CWChris Williamson1:42:36

        There's no justifiable reason, there's no understandable explanation for why this thing happened. That to me is where I go, "Holy fuck." Like, because I, I think the reason it feels that way is there's no control.

    24. KBKanika Batra1:42:50

        Yeah.

    25. CWChris Williamson1:42:51

        That if you decide to poke the bear too many, one too many times and it, it hits you, uh, okay, at least if I don't poke a bear, I'm not gonna get hit. Whereas if I'm just some girl who didn't do anything, didn't try to say something mean to you at Miss Universe, and then the country of Venezuela comes after me, that, you know, I was just some girl that had a handbag and there was a card there and now it's gone, and then I'm being manipulated into thinking that I've got a friend and the friend's actually spending all my money and... That feels a bit different.

    26. KBKanika Batra1:43:18

        Yes. Yes. And that's why I don't do that anymore. But maybe there's something in the subconscious level that I didn't know what, like, I had a reason for it, but-

    27. CWChris Williamson1:43:28

        Hmm

    28. KBKanika Batra1:43:28

        ... nothing comes to mind as to-

    29. CWChris Williamson1:43:29

        Could've been jealous of her. Could've been something else.

    30. KBKanika Batra1:43:30

        Could've been anything really.

26. 1:43:32 – 1:52:02

    Does Kanika Wish She Had “Normal” Emotions?

    1. CWChris Williamson1:43:32

       Do you ever wish that you could feel normal emotions and care for people like a typical human?

    2. KBKanika Batra1:43:39

       I feel like I already do that for people who are worthy of it. Like, I don't do it for, like, what am I gonna get out of being kind to someone who's not gonna, like, support me, who's not gonna be in my corner when I need them? It's very, um, it's just time-consuming to care for many, many people. And sometimes do I wish I could be, not be behind a glass wall? Sure. It's lonely sometimes. It is.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:44:04

       Hmm.

    4. KBKanika Batra1:44:05

       And people don't realize that. People don't realize how, like, hard it is to actually deal with this d- this disorder, and people try to fake it, and they want it, and it's like it's actual hell. Like, you never actually feel like a, a full, you know, functioning person. I feel like I didn't really grow up either. Like I, I talk to friends that I've, you know, I haven't talked to them in years and they all have like children and they're doing all of this and I'm still in the same mindset and it's like it's really frustrating even though I've achieved quite a lot since then. Like I've like, you know, I was on my dream, uh, show the other day on Sean Hannity 'cause I used to watch him with my dad when I was little and so that was like amazing and I do all of that stuff and I've, you know, been at the trials of Ghislaine Maxwell like I've, I've done all of this stuff. I was literally in her bathtub to get a photo. Um, uh-

    5. CWChris Williamson1:45:00

       Consensually?

    6. KBKanika Batra1:45:01

       I-- Well, she wasn't there. She was in prison [chuckles] so her house was up for sale so it was like the perfect time to go in and get evidence.

    7. CWChris Williamson1:45:10

       You treated it like a museum.

    8. KBKanika Batra1:45:12

       Yeah, exactly.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:45:13

       Interesting.

    10. KBKanika Batra1:45:13

        Yeah. I was just trying to see like the logistics of that bathtub and how many people it could fit because Virginia Giuffre and, uh, was saying that Prince Andrew had r***d her in that bathtub and so I was just trying to see if that like, you know, panned out.

    11. CWChris Williamson1:45:30

        What did you discover?

    12. KBKanika Batra1:45:32

        I could barely fit. I'm five foot. As far as I know, Prince W- Prince Andrew is six foot and Virginia was five eight, so if I struggled in there I-

    13. CWChris Williamson1:45:44

        That feels like a flimsy bathtub for somebody that's got a lot of money.

    14. KBKanika Batra1:45:47

        It is. Uh, her house is-

    15. CWChris Williamson1:45:48

        Did you judge her?

    16. KBKanika Batra1:45:49

        Yeah. Her house is trash.

    17. CWChris Williamson1:45:51

        Hmm.

    18. KBKanika Batra1:45:51

        But it's in Kensington so it's like-

    19. CWChris Williamson1:45:53

        Expensive postcode.

    20. KBKanika Batra1:45:54

        Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

    21. CWChris Williamson1:45:55

        So I understand about I think I've got normal emotions or I think I do have emotions for the people that I care about. Do you know the difference between a local maxima and global maxima?

    22. KBKanika Batra1:46:05

        Yes.

    23. CWChris Williamson1:46:06

        Cool. So you can only optimize the things that you know.

    24. KBKanika Batra1:46:09

        Exactly.

    25. CWChris Williamson1:46:10

        Stuff that you don't know you can't optimize for and sometimes you're stuck inside of a local maxima. There might be a, a higher high or more returns that you can get by trying a different approach but if you don't know the approach you're constrained by what you know.

    26. KBKanika Batra1:46:22

        Yes.

    27. CWChris Williamson1:46:23

        I'm wondering-- I'm trying to give you a very utilitarian justification for perhaps broadening that. Um-

    28. KBKanika Batra1:46:31

        I like that

    29. CWChris Williamson1:46:32

        ... that it does make sense to do things for people even if you were looking at it totally sterilely apart from the fact it's good and pro-social and ra, ra, ra. It makes sense to do things for people that you can't see a direct return from especially if they're different on new things because you don't know what you don't know and you don't fully understand how that repercussion could come back around. You-- Many times you talked about somebody from nine years ago that you've forgotten about is still being affected by you. You might not have known nine years ago that that would be the case so you had a local maxima then. There's a global maxima that's higher by doing something you didn't know about. The same thing can happen in the positive way too. You go, "Ha, I'm just gonna, you know, I'm just gonna do this thing for a friend and maybe they pay me back, maybe they don't," and then something happens. The return that comes back around from this even if you couldn't have done the calculus ends up being unbelievably positive for you in your life. So I wonder whether you're going to slowly accumulate more of these algorithms where you go-

    30. KBKanika Batra1:47:30

        That-
27. 1:52:02 – 1:52:59

    What’s Next For Kanika?

    1. KBKanika Batra1:52:02

       can.

    2. CWChris Williamson1:52:02

       Kanika Batra, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, what's coming up next for you? Like, what do you want out of the next couple of-

    3. KBKanika Batra1:52:10

       I wanna write another book.

    4. CWChris Williamson1:52:12

       Mm-hmm.

    5. KBKanika Batra1:52:12

       I want to be a commentator politically for the conservative movement because it's got a big rift in it at the moment, and I would like to ideally be on the way to having a family and be baptized into the Orthodox Church. [laughs]

    6. CWChris Williamson1:52:30

       I'll be watching with interest. I appreciate you very much. Where should people go to check out everything you do?

    7. KBKanika Batra1:52:34

       Everything's on my Instagram. My website is kanikarose.com. It has my book on it. It has The Consilium, where I teach you how to avoid manipulation and how to, like, get your freedom back from the cage that is your brain.

    8. CWChris Williamson1:52:49

       Heck yeah. Thank you.

    9. KBKanika Batra1:52:51

       Thank you.

    10. CWChris Williamson1:52:52

        [outro music] Congratulations. You made it to the end of a podcast episode without dying. Now, here's another one. Go on, watch it.

Episode duration: 1:53:00