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How To Become An Online Coach | Modern Wisdom 125

Jonny and Yusef from PropaneFitness.com join me today as we talk about how to become an online coach. The opportunity to work from anywhere in the world, coaching clients into amazing shape, all whilst still only wearing your pants is a dream that many offline PTs and entrepreneurs want to achieve. Today we learn about Jonny & Yusef's journey to becoming successful online coaches, their best advice for wantrepreneurs who are just starting out and tactics which you can use as a consumer to protect yourself from giving your hard earned money to someone who doesn't deserve it. Extra Stuff: Get PropaneBusiness's Free 7 Step Plan - http://www.propanefitness.com/modernwisdom Check out everything I recommend from books to products and support Modern Wisdom at no extra cost to you by shopping through this link - https://www.amazon.co.uk/shop/modernwisdom #onlinecoaching #fitness #businessadvice - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: modernwisdompodcast@gmail.com

Jonny (Propane Fitness)guestChris WilliamsonhostYusef (Propane Fitness)guest
Dec 9, 20191h 5mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:12

    From in-gym PT burnout to the online coaching promise (and reality check)

    1. JF

      "Youssef, you're a doctor, mate. I want abs by next Monday. Can you, can you sort that?" There's nothing we can do. But give us the right fitness client, get you shredded.

    2. CW

      I'm an in-gym PT. I'm (censored) sick of this.

    3. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    4. CW

      Sick of my clients giving me the flu. I want to work in my socks and my pants. I don't want to do this anymore. We have an hour for you to explain to people, should they go online? Do they need to have PT experience first? How do they do it? And give us your best stories.

    5. JF

      Don't build a program, don't get a website, don't make a logo.

    6. CW

      You guys work in an industry of charlatans. Why?

    7. JF

      It, it's just, it's money, it's profit. But it says personal trainer on your back, so everybody in your gym thinks, "That's the guy I gotta speak to."

    8. CW

      Hi, person with personal trainer on their T-shirt.

    9. JF

      (laughs)

    10. CW

      I want a personal trainer.

    11. JF

      Exactly.

    12. CW

      Nowhere else on the planet does that happen.

    13. JF

      When you move into the internet, really anybody is a client because most people, or in Yousef's world, everybody has a bodybuilding goal, they just don't realize it.

    14. CW

      Are you more talented at coaching coaches, or are you more talented at coaching clients?

    15. JF

      I think...

    16. CW

      Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. I'm joined by Dr. Ned Flanders...

    17. YF

      Highly holy. (laughs)

    18. CW

      (laughs) And Johnny from Yousef.

    19. JF

      Johnny from ... (laughs)

    20. CW

      Johnny from Yousef. Johnny and Yousef from Propain Fitness.

    21. JF

      Did you, did you mean to do that?

    22. CW

      No.

    23. JF

      (laughs) That's incredible.

    24. CW

      Johnny from Yousef, and Yousef who looks like Ned Flanders. To the people that are listening, Yousef has grown a mustache for Movember and he looks...

    25. YF

      I've been likened to every famous figure with a mustache over the month.

    26. JF

      Apart from Captain Hook.

    27. CW

      Tom Selleck.

    28. JF

      Have you had Captain Hook?

    29. CW

      Captain Hook?

    30. JF

      You are very Captain Hook at the moment actually.

  2. 2:12 – 3:53

    Propane Fitness & “Propane Business” origin story (domains, naming, and positioning)

    1. CW

      Uh, okay. Today we're gonna talk about how to be an online coach. This is what Johnny and Yousef do. The new wing of Propain is Propain Business?

    2. JF

      Butane.

    3. CW

      You also have a new podcast.

    4. JF

      We do.

    5. CW

      The Propain Business Podcast?

    6. JF

      I mean, I don't know. It's not technically called that.

    7. CW

      What's it called?

    8. YF

      If you search Propain Business on iTunes, you'll get it. It's called Online-

    9. JF

      Grow Your, Grow Your Online Fitness Business. The reason that it's not called The Propain Business Podcast is, there are a group of people who make money from selling propane-

    10. YF

      (laughs)

    11. JF

      ... via a business. As a result-

    12. YF

      And they, they own the domain.

    13. JF

      We (laughs) , we don't ... They do own the domain.

    14. YF

      And they sold, they wanted to sell it for $36,000 to us.

    15. JF

      (laughs)

    16. YF

      And we said-

    17. JF

      Yeah.

    18. YF

      ... "No, thank you."

    19. JF

      (laughs)

    20. CW

      (laughs) Propane business, for people who want to get into the butane industry.

    21. JF

      Into the propane business, yeah. You know Hank from King of the Hill?

    22. CW

      Yeah.

    23. JF

      That's what he does.

    24. CW

      (laughs)

    25. JF

      He's in the propane business.

    26. YF

      And accessories for propane.

    27. CW

      Yeah. (laughs) Okay.

    28. JF

      Propane and propane accessories.

    29. CW

      So, there will be some people listening who think, "I'm an in-gym PT. I'm (censored) sick of this."

    30. JF

      Mm-hmm.

  3. 3:53 – 4:48

    Lifestyle-first decision: reverse-engineer your ideal workday before going online

    1. YF

      So, with this, I think that's a important observation of, "I want to work in my socks and pants at home." Like, it sounds silly, but it is actually like, you need to think, how do you want your life to look day to day? And so, a lot of people don't do this and they just go like, "Oh, I'm interested in, like, lift biceps and stuff, so I'm gonna go and do a personal training qualification." And they realize the reality of it is working in pure gyms or slinking around and, like, sleazing on people to try and, like, gain new clients-

    2. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    3. YF

      ... and working long hours, exchanging time for money, and generally just having a, a bit of a rubbish time. Whereas if you set your goal on, "How do I want my life to look?"

    4. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    5. YF

      And then reverse engineer it, rather than, "I like this and so I'm gonna do this."

    6. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    7. YF

      And not think about what the outcome ends up as, you're gonna-

    8. CW

      Some, some people might like the idea of being on their feet, talking, interacting one to one.

    9. YF

      Oh, in that case-

    10. CW

      Be a PT.

    11. YF

      ... but you're a great, great fit for a PT. Yeah.

  4. 4:48 – 5:36

    The hidden trap: online coaching is ironically sedentary (and can erode your own fitness)

    1. JF

      Quite a lot of people don't want to be exclusively online for that reason. Because if, especially if you've gone from being an online coach, being an offline coach to full online.

    2. YF

      It's the most ironically sedentary-

    3. JF

      Yeah.

    4. YF

      ... activity.

    5. CW

      (laughs) The least fit person ever.

    6. JF

      Like you go, you go from waking up at 6:00 in the morning and, like, non-stop till nine at night-

    7. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    8. JF

      ... to just you wake up and you're like ...

    9. CW

      Laptop open.

    10. JF

      All day.

    11. CW

      Send email. Yeah.

    12. YF

      We've, we've actually spoken to an online coach, we're not gonna say his name, but at the end of an interview with him, he, he was like, "So I've been coaching people online to get shredded for, for ages, but look at me." And he stood up, lifted up his shirt and just went like, blub, blub-

    13. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    14. YF

      ... with his, like-

    15. JF

      Fat.

    16. YF

      ... arm curls. And he was like, "It doesn't matter. No one knows that I'm, that I'm fat."

    17. JF

      (laughs)

    18. YF

      "It's fine." So, yeah.

    19. JF

      Very, very well-known guy as well.

    20. YF

      Mm-hmm.

    21. JF

      Very well-known.

  5. 5:36 – 7:25

    Why offline PTs struggle online: gyms pre-sell trust, traffic, and legitimacy

    1. CW

      So, let's say that someone ... the most common, uh, person I think that's gonna be listening, or that's gonna be interested, the most, uh, representative example for people who aren't coaches is gonna be an in-gym PT.

    2. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    3. CW

      Maybe been a PT for three years. Good clients-

    4. JF

      Yep.

    5. CW

      ... but they've realized, "Hang on, unless I start putting my price up to 50, 60, 70-"

    6. JF

      Yeah.

    7. CW

      "... u- units per hour."

    8. JF

      (laughs)

    9. CW

      50/50 UK, US?

    10. YF

      I was gonna say, like, Newton minutes or something like that.

    11. JF

      Yeah, Newton meters per hour.

    12. CW

      50 kilowatt-hours.

    13. JF

      (laughs)

    14. CW

      Yeah.

    15. JF

      Um- Yeah.

    16. CW

      And they're like, "I wanna earn some more money." What do they do?

    17. JF

      Yeah, so the biggest mistake that people make in that transition is they think being an online coach is the same as being an offline coach. So when you are, like, in Pure Gym with the words personal trainer written on your back, they, y- y- you don't realize it but Pure Gym have done all of the work for you. Like, they've brought people to the door, they've made them pay. L- which is a big deal, 'cause you, all you're dealing with is people who are paying for fitness, which is massive.

    18. YF

      You have to just be there and not a creep.

    19. JF

      And you've got words on your back that say you're the expert. It could be anyone, you could have a fucking clue but it says personal trainer on your back, so everybody in Pure Gym thinks, "Oh, fucking hell-"

    20. YF

      (laughs)

    21. JF

      ... "that's the guy I go speak to."

    22. CW

      Yeah.

    23. JF

      And people still struggle.

    24. CW

      (laughs)

    25. JF

      You know? So, so that person is struggling. They're like, "Oh, I've only got 20 clients, 30 quid an hour, bit shit, 6:00 in the morning, 9:00 at night, don't see my friends at the weekend. I know, I'll go online. What do people want? A recipe book. That's what everyone wants."

    26. YF

      (laughs)

    27. JF

      "They want a recipe book. So I'll make a recipe book, I'll make a logo, I'll spend five grand on a website and I'll just try and do the same thing on the internet." And the analogy we use is, you're like, you're, like, you're the pervert at the family barbecue.

    28. CW

      (laughs)

    29. JF

      'Cause everyone's scrolling down, it's like cat photo, cat photo, funny video, Brexit, Brexit, baby, baby, "Is someone trying to sell me online? Fuck off." Like, ban, block, complain.

    30. CW

      Yeah. Mute.

  6. 7:25 – 9:20

    The market changed: ‘just post content’ worked in 2008—now specificity and sales matter

    1. JF

      And, like, they're like, "Oh, but I don't, I've only got ten spaces." So, you know, comment below, tag, tag. And, uh, it's just not, it doesn't work. So basically, in the current market, online market, or probably any industry, if you just shoot from the hip and try and sell fat loss on the internet, like... 'Cause w- we were able to do that when we started, but the online market was-

    2. YF

      In 2008, it worked.

    3. JF

      Yeah.

    4. YF

      Because-

    5. JF

      Like, pre cre- pre- the credit crisis.

    6. CW

      (laughs)

    7. YF

      That, that's re- that's because we-

    8. CW

      Did you cause the credit crisis? (laughs)

    9. JF

      Basically, yeah. We posted on Facebook and that was it.

    10. YF

      But, like, that, that was in, back in the day. It was beautiful where you could post on Facebook and get 200 likes for resh- for sharing, like, a Daily Mail article.

    11. JF

      (laughs)

    12. YF

      You would, you could rank on the first page of Google for writing an article about doms or Ramadan or, like... Well, actually, no. Uh, e- even about, like, much more basic stuff from that, like, hyp- hypertrophy.

    13. CW

      (laughs)

    14. YF

      How to do hypertrophy. Top page of Google.

    15. CW

      I want a hy- I want a hypertrophy, Google preferred.

    16. JF

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

    17. YF

      Yeah.

    18. JF

      First page of Google. Whereas now, you just won't-

    19. CW

      Much more sophisticated.

    20. JF

      Well, or just, you know, there, there's a, there's a wider market. So the market's massive, um, and there are, there are easily enough clients to go round, but the-

    21. CW

      You will need to unlock your iPhone first.

    22. YF

      Hey, Siri.

    23. JF

      Anyone?

    24. YF

      (laughs)

    25. JF

      Anyone have any ideas?

    26. CW

      Are you leaning on your iPhone? Which home?

    27. YF

      (laughs)

    28. JF

      Can we turn it off now? (laughs)

    29. CW

      Moving on. The, the market's a lot more sophisticated.

    30. JF

      The market's a lot more... Well, the market's massive but there are a lot more people trying to do it.

  7. 9:20 – 10:41

    Stop collecting certifications as a substitute for marketing and service delivery

    1. YF

      But, yeah, people think it's the recipe book or whatever. And I think part of the problem is thinking, uh, identifying the wrong bottleneck with your whole process, and then trying to fix it. And the most common one is like, "I'm a PT and I've done me Level 4, uh, ActiveIQ certification. Then I've got me NASM Level 1."

    2. JF

      (laughs)

    3. YF

      "And I'm gonna do me Advanced Nutritional Counseling for, for-"

    4. CW

      (laughs)

    5. YF

      "... for women aged between 60 and 65, um, to help with, with food intolerances. And I've done me Celiac Certification."

    6. JF

      (laughs)

    7. YF

      "And me pregnancy..." And you're like, it, that doesn't...

    8. JF

      And kettlebell Level 10.

    9. CW

      (laughs)

    10. YF

      It's, it's like, because they think it's, like, little s- feathers to their, what is it? Feathers to their bow, strings to their-

    11. JF

      Cap.

    12. CW

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    13. YF

      Footstrings to their cap. (laughs)

    14. JF

      Strings to their cap.

    15. CW

      Strings to their cap.

    16. YF

      Skin off their nose, whatever. And whereas, like, I would say any of that education is, that should be off your own back for your own sense of-

    17. JF

      Mm.

    18. YF

      ... internal pride.

    19. JF

      Mm.

    20. YF

      And really, get that from a textbook. Don't pay, like, two grand for a kettlebell certification.

    21. JF

      That's the same person who says, like, you know, "Joe Wicks is a, you know, tosser and he doesn't know anything."

    22. YF

      So no one cares if Joe Wicks has a kettlebell Level 3.

    23. JF

      Well, look, look at the numbers.

    24. YF

      Yeah.

    25. CW

      Look at them.

    26. JF

      A lot more people care about a Joe Wicks than you.

    27. YF

      Well, he has got a recipe book.

    28. JF

      He does have a recipe book, but the pro-

    29. CW

      He's got a number of recipe books.

    30. JF

      He does. So back to why that's important. And I'll get on to the recipe book in a second.

  8. 10:41 – 14:37

    Build ‘know-like-trust’ online by choosing a niche where you’re naturally credible

    1. JF

      The... What Pure Gym have done is brought a certain person in they trust. They trust the, the environment they're in. They don't w- like, they don't approach a PT and think, "Well, fuck, I might get scammed here."

    2. CW

      Yeah.

    3. JF

      There's a, there's an environment. You have to create all of that yourself online.

    4. YF

      Because you've got the institutional legit-

    5. JF

      Yeah. You're in a gym.

    6. YF

      ... legit-

    7. JF

      You're in a gym, it's a brand, everyone knows who you are. Um...

    8. YF

      Like, you trust the Tesco guy. You go into Tesco and you don't think, "Oh-oh, he might try to screw you off."

    9. JF

      (laughs)

    10. YF

      It's a

    11. NA

      Or your-

    12. CW

      ... what, yeah, "I need to find out where the cereal is." And he says, "Aisle," like, Batman symbol, "Q."

    13. YF

      (laughs)

    14. CW

      And you're like, "Hang on a second, I'm not sure if you know what you're talking about."

    15. JF

      Yeah, yeah. And there's, like, a green button that says "Add To Cart" and, "Mm-mm."

    16. CW

      Exactly. Are you sure?

    17. JF

      Exactly. Um, and then... So, like, your website, your persona online, everything has to create that. So you have to somehow be seen as trusted, as an expert, as having the answers by someone. And the easiest way to do that is to pick a specific person who would naturally see you as that. Now, I realize I'm going around the houses here, but the point is, like-

    18. YF

      No.

    19. JF

      ... we... That was a weird noise.

    20. YF

      (laughs)

    21. JF

      We started working with students because we'd just finished being students, and because we intimately understood students. So to a student, us versus a, you know, a coach who's ten years older or whatever, we're much more likely to be seen as an expert 'cause we know exactly what they're going through. We've had results in that environment. And our market's changed as we've grown-

    22. CW

      Grown.

    23. JF

      ... grown up and, you know, we now mainly work with people who are where we were before we moved into Proplane, which is finance and corporate busy.

    24. CW

      Mm.

    25. JF

      So it's far easier to create that Pure Gym feeling-... when you're seen as someone who's just, "Oh, well, they get me. They understand me."

    26. CW

      So they-

    27. JF

      They're saying things that are relevant.

    28. CW

      You need to be seen with some authority.

    29. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    30. CW

      You need to be trusted. And what was the third one?

  9. 14:37 – 18:07

    Beyond fitness: how the offline-to-online principles apply to freelancers and trades

    1. CW

      But, uh, are there any analogous situations for this? I guess someone potentially who's like a, a counselor who works one-to-one with people, per- perhaps doing therapy?

    2. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    3. CW

      Or anyone else who's like that who's thinking about going online? Do you think that these are universal rules, or at least, like, applicable to some other? Or have you considered any of the-

    4. YF

      Th- Yeah, this... I mean, I think any freelance job, so yeah, counselor, painter, therapist, beautician.

    5. CW

      An online painter? (laughs)

    6. YF

      Well, th- s- so, like, anything where, where the-

    7. JF

      (laughs) That's the worst example. (laughs)

    8. YF

      (laughs) I'll explain.

    9. CW

      (laughs)

    10. YF

      So, so an- an- anything where there, there is a potential to be working with an institution or working on your own basis.

    11. CW

      Oh, I see. Understood, got it.

    12. YF

      So, so either with a PT, if you, if you're ch- choosing to be purely offline, then you're either, yeah, working with the institution of Pure Gym, or you have your own personal brand that you've built, and then you can bring people into that-

    13. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    14. YF

      ... and then you offer whatever you want with that. If you're a painter, you can't do a lot online unless you go into, like, information products, but we don't know how, what the market is like for information products for painters.

    15. CW

      How to be a painter. (laughs)

    16. YF

      How to be a painter. Be, like, a handyman or something. But what you can do is leverage your time and use that expertise to say, "Right, I'm gonna build a team around me and take, take, like, a huge-"

    17. CW

      Teach them how to be painters.

    18. YF

      Mm-hmm.

    19. JF

      (laughs)

    20. YF

      Like, a huge-

    21. CW

      Focus on BDM.

    22. YF

      Yeah. B- is that, that where you-

    23. CW

      Business development.

    24. YF

      ... you put a ball in, ball in your mouth-

    25. CW

      BDSF. (laughs)

    26. YF

      ... and you have to whip each other? Um, so if you're a, if you're a handyman, the, the biggest market I see, and I'm sure you, you'll have experienced this pa- Well, actually, we've all, we've all experienced this pain horribly, is there's a huge gap for PAs for handymen or for builders, where they would just tell them, "Right, you're here on Tuesday, you're there on Thursday. That's where you go."

    27. CW

      So effortful, the discussion backwards and forwards with anyone who's in that handyman, plumber, painter, carpenter, fucking electrician thing. Like-

    28. YF

      Trades.

    29. CW

      ... ring the person, "Hi, mate."

    30. JF

      (laughs)

  10. 18:07 – 19:10

    Credibility test: you only need to be ‘a chapter ahead’—but you must have results

    1. CW

      Um, okay, so I'm gonna, I'm, I'm thinking about how a sales page works here. Where's your authority? Why should the people that we're speaking to listen to you?

    2. YF

      ... that's asked before? That's-

    3. CW

      Like, what, what, what, what, what license-

    4. YF

      It's a great question.

    5. CW

      ... have you got to talk to anyone about how to be an online coach?

    6. YF

      It's a really good question, and it's also what you should ask yourself whenever you're offering a service is, like, "Have I achieved the thing which I'm professing to teach?"

    7. JF

      The re-

    8. YF

      "Have I achieved the result that I'm profe- professing that I'm gonna get for other people?" And so, the same way that you wouldn't trust a fat personal trainer, you wouldn't trust a ca- a car driving instructor that hasn't got a license-

    9. CW

      Couldn't drive a car. Yeah.

    10. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    11. YF

      Um, you have to... Y- and, and the g- the great thing is, you don't need to be the world record holding authority on that thing. You just need to be a chapter ahead of whatever-

    12. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    13. YF

      ... you're offering to someone.

    14. CW

      So how many chapters ahead do you think you guys are? 'Cause I've ... I, I know the answer to this.

    15. YF

      So we, we market-

    16. JF

      Probably the, the entire book.

    17. CW

      Yeah.

    18. JF

      Probably the encyclopedia. No, I'm joking.

    19. YF

      We, we market to people who were like us five years ago.

    20. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    21. JF

      I think us 10 years ago.

    22. YF

      Whoa.

    23. CW

      But you've done a lot in 5 years.

    24. JF

      Yeah.

    25. YF

      A lot in a while.

    26. JF

      Yeah.

    27. CW

      You've done a lot more than most people would.

    28. YF

      Yeah, 10 years is-

    29. JF

      (laughs)

  11. 19:10 – 21:42

    Two paths to online success: influencer personality vs repeatable systems & funnels

    1. CW

      So, take us through it. So you've been online coaches for 10 years?

    2. JF

      So we ... So Propain started about a decade ago.

    3. CW

      (clears throat)

    4. JF

      Um, as a blog. Gained traction, got a few clients.

    5. CW

      (clears throat)

    6. JF

      (clears throat) Slowly trickled along. We figured out, right, we need to figure out how to market this. Bought a ... bought like our first course to learn like the basics, and then since then have ... I mean, I don't know how much money we've invested. It would probably make me and you-

    7. YF

      60, 70 grand probably.

    8. JF

      That's more than ... That's way more than that.

    9. YF

      Oh, actually, if you include-

    10. JF

      (laughs)

    11. YF

      ... all the like software stuff as well.

    12. JF

      Yeah. So lots of money in learning how to market it. We've been doing it-

    13. YF

      If you count ad spend as l- as tuition fee as well, then it's-

    14. JF

      It's nauseating.

    15. CW

      (laughs)

    16. YF

      (laughs)

    17. JF

      I will be sick. Um, yeah, so we've been doing it full time. I mean, you've, you've done a bit of other stuff, like you did a medical degree in -

    18. YF

      (laughs) I just did.

    19. CW

      Blackrock.

    20. JF

      ... doctor. Bl- yeah. Um, but since 2016 full time. So, um, we're not like ... I, I think our selling point (coughs) that as far as we see it is there are two ways to succeed with this stuff really. One is you hit ... So the bigge- the best example of, of the way that we don't do is James Smith and what's happened to him. So he-

    21. CW

      Let's talk about that in a second.

    22. JF

      Okay. All right. So we, we don't have any of that. If anyone follows us, like they'll, they'll know that we don't have 500,000 followers on Instagram or anything like that. But like-

    23. YF

      We're not internet personalities.

    24. JF

      No.

    25. YF

      Yeah.

    26. JF

      No. Um, we, we run things very much from a ... like we have systems that do the work for us. We figured, we figured it out I suppose in a long frustrating way that, you know, if you leverage sales and marketing properly, you can use advertising, software systems to bring clients in, in a, in a fairly repeatable way.

    27. CW

      More passive.

    28. JF

      Yeah, it's more ... It's ... There's a lot more work to get it set up, but there's more predictability over it. It's less like, "Will my video go viral, yes or no?"

    29. CW

      Yes.

    30. JF

      "Will the platform change and take likes and comments away?" There's none of that, but there is ... There's other, other uncertainties and difficulties.

  12. 21:42 – 26:48

    Seminars, ‘secret answers,’ and the comedy of overcomplication

    1. CW

      I want to hear a round robin for the next 10 to 15 minutes-

    2. JF

      (laughs)

    3. CW

      ... of the funniest situations you've encountered whilst learning about being an online coach.

    4. JF

      Oh, okay.

    5. YF

      Okay.

    6. CW

      So I want to hear-

    7. YF

      Some of the fails?

    8. CW

      I want to hear the story about when you went to go see James Smith live and you thought he was gonna give you the keys.

    9. JF

      (laughs)

    10. CW

      Uh, I wanna hear the sto-

    11. YF

      Oh, God. (laughs)

    12. CW

      I want to hear the story about, um ...

    13. JF

      (laughs)

    14. YF

      Oh, God.

    15. CW

      Uh, I want to hear the story about ... I'm not being funny, right? Uh-

    16. JF

      Okay.

    17. CW

      I want to hear the one about the grain problem.

    18. JF

      Oh my God.

    19. YF

      (laughs) You know what? The- these really like-

    20. JF

      Look at him getting ... He's getting FOMO that he hasn't written them down.

    21. CW

      Written them all down. Yeah. (laughs)

    22. YF

      (laughs) Oh, "My phone's too bloody big, I can't flex my hip." But, so the- these actually come very much into the ... what we were saying about getting your like level three kettlebell certification and all this stuff, that you go to like some kind ... So like an Eric Helms event, which- (laughs)

    23. CW

      So for the people who aren't listening, who's that?

    24. YF

      So he's, he's-

    25. CW

      Uh, the people who aren't listening.

    26. YF

      (laughs)

    27. JF

      (laughs)

    28. CW

      For the people who aren't listening-

    29. YF

      You, you almost got away with that. (laughs)

    30. CW

      I know. It was, it was-

  13. 26:48 – 31:12

    Why fitness (and coaching) attracts charlatans: basics are boring, so marketing fills the gap

    1. CW

      Us three here know that the secret to getting in good shape isn't really a secret, and it's really quite basic.

    2. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    3. CW

      It's move more than you eat, control the processed foods that you have, try and do progressive overload, try and lift heavy three times a week.

    4. JF

      Yes.

    5. CW

      Try and get some sort of fresh air, try and get some daylight.

    6. JF

      Mm.

    7. CW

      Sleep well.

    8. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    9. CW

      That's it.

    10. JF

      Yeah.

    11. CW

      That's it.

    12. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    13. CW

      Why is the fitness industry so abound with different approaches to achieving that? Is it because... This is my theory, let's see what you think. Um, the route from input to output, the process that people go through to get there, is so opaque and so difficult to see that it allows everyone to be like, "What's in the magic box?"

    14. YF

      Mm.

    15. CW

      "My magic box is the faster, quicker, superior magic box."

    16. YF

      Or the only, it's the only way to get-

    17. CW

      Mm.

    18. YF

      ... to this, like-

    19. CW

      But why, why is it allowing-

    20. YF

      I- it's-

    21. CW

      'Cause it's a f- it's a fucking industry. You guys work in an industry of charlatans.

    22. JF

      Yeah.

    23. YF

      Mm.

    24. CW

      Why?

    25. JF

      I- it's just, it's money. It's profit. Like, whenever in any... And you can see this in anything where the process is the answer, the true answer is, like, a few things done every day for two years. Like saving money, for example. Like becoming wealthy. The answer is never, like-

    26. CW

      This Forex trade.

    27. JF

      ... in a book, on a course, in a, like, in a Forex masterclass.

    28. YF

      It's not this technical analysis-

    29. JF

      Yeah.

    30. YF

      ... um, system-

  14. 31:12 – 40:28

    The ‘marketing gurus’ trap: manipulative sales scripts, dragons, and how to vet mentors

    1. JF

      ... to be in a cult, where he ended up lying down on the ground because everyone around him was dancing, and he didn't get it. But he still went for 12 weeks. So like, if someone says, "This is the way to do it, Yusef," he'll do it. The, the first business coach we hired told us to, um ... Basically, we, we did like, a boosted post Facebook ad, which is not never, you know-

    2. YF

      Do not do ...

    3. JF

      (laughs) Yeah.

    4. YF

      If he mentioned boosted post-

    5. JF

      (laughs)

    6. CW

      (laughs)

    7. YF

      ... in front of Johnny-

    8. CW

      He's allergic. He actually has an anaphylactic reaction.

    9. JF

      I mean, it, you know, it's a great way, you get a lot of exposure.

    10. YF

      (laughs)

    11. JF

      But it literally just, anybody can come into your world. There's no targeting or, or, or measurability to anything you do, and that's what happened. Loads of people booked one of these free co- coaching calls with us, which is what we were told to do, and we're good students, so that's what we did, and we spent about, I mean, probably 100 hours on the phone.

    12. YF

      So, just to give you some context for this as well, like, this is a man who was bragging about the fact that he-

    13. JF

      (laughs)

    14. YF

      ... put, makes people, brings people to tears during the sales calls all the time, bragging that he got a single mum to re-mortgage her house so that she could sign up for his, um-

    15. JF

      Yeah. It really is extreme.

    16. YF

      ... to extend his product. And the sales script they give you is really manipulative and really like, just-

    17. CW

      Pain point, aggressive.

    18. YF

      ... pokey and yeah.

    19. JF

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. You encourage to make people cry.

    20. CW

      NLP.

    21. JF

      And so we, we'd been doing this for a while. We'd had mixed success with it.

    22. CW

      (laughs)

    23. JF

      Yusef lost a friend over there.

    24. YF

      With ... I remember feeling like, nauseous while doing these calls.

    25. JF

      Unpleasant.

    26. YF

      It was like, this is just so not in line with who we are as people. But we were like, "Well, we've got to follow the process 'cause we've paid five grand for it." So.

    27. JF

      (laughs) Yusef did a live on the, on a call with this guy, a live role play where Yusef was the client and this guy was trying to close Yusef, and Yusef just kept ... So the guy (laughs) was like, "It's 5-9-9-5 for my program." Yusef was like, "Okay." The guy was like, "What do you think?" He's like, "I think it's too expensive." (laughs)

    28. CW

      (laughs)

    29. JF

      And the guy's like, "Well, what do you mean by that?" He's like, "Well, it's beyond what I feel comfortable paying." (laughs)

    30. CW

      (laughs)

  15. 40:28 – 43:29

    The practical first steps: don’t build the website—sell first with a simple funnel and beta offer

    1. CW

      Um, so okay, let's say we've, we've talked about kind of like what the environment is and what the industry's like.

    2. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    3. CW

      Let's say that someone's thinking, "Okay, I, I'm offline PT, I'm ready to make the move online or I'm someone who's got a, an interest in health and fitness and I, I think that I should do that." What's the first step? Do they buy a website?

    4. JF

      No.

    5. CW

      Do they make a brand?

    6. JF

      No.

    7. YF

      (laughs)

    8. JF

      Absolutely, for god's sake, no.

    9. YF

      (laughs)

    10. CW

      Can I remortgage my house?

    11. JF

      No.

    12. YF

      You, you, you're gonna induce-

    13. JF

      (laughs)

    14. YF

      ... anaphylaxis again, like-

    15. CW

      So we, we have this-

    16. JF

      Okay.

    17. CW

      ... what are the, what are the most common things that people think they should do? Buy a website?

    18. JF

      All right.

    19. CW

      (laughs)

    20. JF

      So yes, that, and build a program. Don't do that.

    21. CW

      So don't write a program.

    22. JF

      Don't build a program. Don't get a website. Don't make a logo. Don't, definitely don't like pay someone to set up a Trainer Eyes or my PT Hub or anything like that, because all that is doing is digging a trench in somewhere where you're not sure whether the trench is gonna actually be there long term. Like you're building a house and you haven't checked the foundations. And so we, we see this all the time and we like use it in marketing a lot that you see someone post on Facebook on their personal profile like, "I'm proud to announce after six months of building it that I'm finally launching my eight-week fat loss blaster program." Zero comments, zero likes, tumbleweed six hours later and people wonder why. So the first thing to do is really, you, you want to build some sort of sales process to test this with. Like have an idea, have a concept. Who do I want to work with and why? Why would that person listen to me? What compelling stuff have I got to say to that person? What might the program look like? Then build a way to sell it to them. And sell first and build in some pe- bring in some people to help you with the program.

    23. CW

      So pre-enrollment.

    24. JF

      Yeah.

    25. CW

      Or say, if you were to post online and say, um, "Considering going online, uh, is anyone looking for an online coach at the moment? Why don't you give me a DM and we'll have a chat?"

    26. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    27. CW

      And then you could say, you could talk to them, see the sort of people who respond. So you're talking about dipping your toe in the water.

    28. JF

      Yeah. You, you want to build a program that is designed for your clients, not what you think your clients need. And that means really, you need clients to help you build it.

    29. CW

      So should you start off just coaching a few people for free?

    30. JF

      That's one option, yeah. The, the downside with that is a lot of people don't take it seriously.... it's, like, someone we know, actually, has just tried to offer ... I don't know whether you've seen this. He's just tried to offer 12 weeks of coaching for free, and no one's taken him up on it. And the reason is, like, people don't ... if I said to you, like, "I'll make you a billionaire, but it's free. No problem."

  16. 43:29 – 1:01:32

    Choosing your audience (often ‘you a year ago’) and letting the market correct you

    1. CW

      Wait, so how, how do I find out who my audience is?

    2. JF

      So that, I would serve you a year ago, or you at the beginning of your journey. So I would have that as your client 'cause you are, like, you, you are that person post-transformation, right?

    3. CW

      Broadly, should men coach men and women coach women for effectiveness?

    4. JF

      Typically that's the, that's the best way to do it. But-

    5. YF

      Yeah, there's-

    6. JF

      ... it's, it's difficult.

    7. YF

      Like, if you have some reasonable expertise in that, then fine, but when we ... like, something I, I get, I feel is weird when I see like a 25-year-old man say that he's gonna do, like, middle-aged women post, post-natal.

    8. CW

      Ugh.

    9. YF

      And you're just like, "Ugh, like-"

    10. JF

      What do you know? What do you know about that?

    11. YF

      Yeah, about the struggles of a middle-aged woman-

    12. CW

      (laughs)

    13. YF

      ... after having a baby.

    14. JF

      Yeah.

    15. YF

      Like, it just, it, it seems seedy and it seems, like, spermy.

    16. JF

      It, it is possible, and some coaches are really good at coaching, you know-

    17. CW

      James Smith.

    18. JF

      ... men coach women. Yeah, exactly. And, like, some men have really-

    19. CW

      (laughs)

    20. JF

      ... I'm sure have really good post-natal programs but for the first, for your first online program, it's, it's making it harder for yourself. 'Cause you have to imagine what it's like to be that person.

    21. CW

      So you want to pick-

    22. YF

      The only exception-

    23. CW

      What were the goals that you had ... oh, sorry.

    24. YF

      Oh, sorry. Just the, the only exception to that is if, when you ... if just naturally from your, your existing personal social media following, you get loads of questions and things from a specific demographic-

    25. JF

      Yeah.

    26. YF

      ... and you can't figure out why (laughs) , then fine. So do those people.

    27. CW

      Perhaps you've selected for men, women-

    28. JF

      Mm-hmm.

    29. CW

      ... young people, old people.

    30. YF

      Yeah. A- and it could be that, you know, James Smith is a very, is like a sexually desirable man-

  17. 1:01:32 – 1:05:48

    Recap and resources: start now, build an online presence, and validate with proof

    1. CW

      Uh, okay. So we've given out some fucking cool info today, um, let's do a recap and also we need, you need to tell people where they can go to, to-

    2. JF

      Sure.

    3. CW

      ... find out more from yourselves as well.

    4. JF

      So, uh, okay, so I would say w- if, if, if someone is either, so, like, gym owner, PT, nutritionist offline, or we h- we help a few people who, like, there's a few people actually who are fi- have been fitness clients for two years and are in such good shape that they're like, "I want to help people do the same thing." Which is really cool. But, so th- those criteria, so you're off, y- you're outside the industry but thinking about it, offline PT, gym owner, anything like that. I, I would start an online presence regardless of whether or not you want it to be a full-time thing, and I would do it sooner rather than later.

    5. CW

      What's that mean?

    6. JF

      Like, I would, I would have something in place. I would have an online program, I would have an online offering, 'cause really the barrier to setting one up at the moment is pretty low.

    7. CW

      Frictionless.

    8. JF

      Yeah. And if you, especially if you have, like-

    9. YF

      (sniffs)

    10. JF

      ... clients already, it bolsters the value of your offline service if you have-

    11. CW

      Is a- is a PDF enough? Is a weekly call enough?

    12. JF

      I'd say probably not. But it, if we're gonna get into that, I've got a, I've got a link that, that can help people with that-

    13. CW

      Awesome.

    14. JF

      ... rather than me go through the details. Um, but yeah, s- sooner rather than later just because realistically there's someone starting today, now, now, now, now, and you're just gonna be a year down the line if you wait. And there's no reason to wait. 'Cause everyone's always like, "Oh, in January," or, "Next year," m- magical land of when I have all the time and all the money.

    15. CW

      It's one of those things to do with us being in the weeds about our own experience again as well, isn't it? It's like you presume that everybody else is watching you-

    16. JF

      Yeah.

    17. CW

      ... and that you're going to go, "Oh, well man, now I've got to put out this fucking-"

    18. JF

      When I watch it, yeah, yeah.

    19. CW

      "... sick program," yeah.

    20. JF

      Yeah.

    21. CW

      'Cause honestly if my third cousin sees that I've-

    22. JF

      (laughs)

    23. CW

      ... released this thing and there's a spelling error on the front page...

    24. JF

      Yeah. Yeah.

    25. CW

      Uh-

    26. JF

      So d- doing, just getting started today might mean in a year just doing all right, rather than, you know, this time next year just beginning. So start sooner rather than later, and don't get caught in the weeds with websites and stuff you don't need. Focus on what I said earlier. And just, if you are getting help, be very careful. So I w- the question we encourage people to ask is like, "Can I see your version of this business please?" Like, "Can I see, if, if you're teaching me to build a fitness business, I want to see this type of thing that I'm, that I'm building." 'Cause it might be, like, you might see their business and think, "Oh, that's shit."

    27. CW

      "That's weird. That's shit." Yeah.

    28. JF

      And, and probably the most common reason people give for, like, "I don't run my fitness business anymore," is like, "It didn't suit my lifestyle." So do you want to be taught by someone who built the business that didn't suit their lifestyle? Just those sorts of things. I don't, I'm not trying to rubbish everyone else 'cause there are some, some really good coaches.

    29. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    30. JF

      But just ask for proof, just like you would ask to see someone's lift if they're a powerlifting coach or whatever, right? Um, and do you have anything else?

Episode duration: 1:05:48

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