How To Cook Amazing Fitness Food, For Idiots - Chris Baber | Modern Wisdom Podcast 299

1. 0:00 – 1:23

   Intro

   1. CBChris Baber0:00

      You need to think of food as that really important thing that fuels your body. It allows us to be more productive. It's how we can alter our health, how we can train harder, how we can get stronger. How we can be better people.

   2. CWChris Williamson0:15

      (wind blowing) I've been meaning to reach out to you for ages. I'm pretty crap at cooking.

   3. CBChris Baber0:21

      Yeah.

   4. CWChris Williamson0:21

      I have, like, three meals in my chef's repertoire.

   5. CBChris Baber0:27

      Yeah.

   6. CWChris Williamson0:27

      And you are my best friend that knows how to cook food.

   7. CBChris Baber0:32

      (laughs)

   8. CWChris Williamson0:32

      You're the peak black belt Brazilian jiu-jitsu in food making.

   9. CBChris Baber0:35

      Yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson0:36

       And, uh, I just wanted to get you on, because I don't think it's just me. I think a lot of the... Especially the guys-

   11. CBChris Baber0:41

       Yeah.

   12. CWChris Williamson0:41

       ... um, struggle, especially people that want to do fitness meal prep.

   13. CBChris Baber0:45

       Mm-hmm.

   14. CWChris Williamson0:45

       They just don't have a very good range of foods and I wanted to bring you in-

   15. CBChris Baber0:49

       Yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson0:49

       ... to your specialist subject, making, making stuff taste good. I wanted you to-

   17. CBChris Baber0:52

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson0:53

       ... take us through the principles and then maybe give us some recipes as well.

   19. CBChris Baber0:56

       Yeah, absolutely. I'm really looking forward to it. And, um, in terms of the sort of the meal prep and the fitness side, I used to compete as a runner, um, 800 meters. So for me, that's where it all really started with making delicious foo- Like, 'cause I'm such a foodie and always have been, it's, "How do I, how can I create amazing food that fuels my needs as an athlete, but also fuels my needs as someone that's obsessed with food?" So I've got quite a, quite a good experience in this.

   20. CWChris Williamson1:22

       I love it, man.

2. 1:23 – 2:30

   Where do we start

   1. CWChris Williamson1:23

      So where do we start? What's the, what's the principles we need to understand before we can even get into it?

   2. CBChris Baber1:27

      Yeah. I think for me, shopping and stocking your cupboard for success is a great way to start because... I think in terms of let's start with stock cupboard essentials. Like, so many things with a recipe, you really only ever need to buy the fresh stuff. If you've got an amazing selection of, like, spices, herbs in the cupboard, tins, chopped tomatoes, beans, your rices, pastas and pulses and stuff, and in the freezer, like frozen veggies, things like that, you've always got a meal to hand. Like, I could for instance, open the cupboard, grab some pasta, make a delicious tomato sauce using tinned tomatoes, some garlic, flake through some tuna and put some frozen broccoli in, and I've just made, like, an amazing meal without even going to the shops. So I think the best place to start is sort of stocking the cupboard for success. And I can certainly share details on what I guess my stock cupboard essentials are. But, yeah, olive oil, a balsamic vinegar, red wine vinegar, selection of herbs, selection of spices, all dried. Um-

3. 2:30 – 3:25

   Herbs and spices

   1. CBChris Baber2:30

   2. CWChris Williamson2:30

      What are the herbs and spices? 'Cause people always talk about that and then I just look at-

   3. CBChris Baber2:33

      Yeah.

   4. CWChris Williamson2:33

      ... the far corner of my kitchen. My housemate's a pretty good foodie.

   5. CBChris Baber2:36

      Right.

   6. CWChris Williamson2:36

      I just look at the far corner and it's just loads of words that I don't really know what they are.

   7. CBChris Baber2:40

      Yeah. I, I mean, there's so much choice. But for me, if, if I had to have core spices, cumin, ground coriander, chili powder, turmeric, garam masala, I think there's five solid ones. You can go down your zaatars and ras el hanouts and stuff if you want to, but I think with those five you can do so much with them. And then for herbs, probably like oregano, you can use it in so many Italian things, but if you're just making a tomato sauce, just chuck a bit of that in and it's gonna taste better. Dried thyme, um, probably some dried sage for your Sunday roasts and stuff like that. And I would say, to be honest, the oregano's the secret one for me. I use it in so many different things. And then-

   8. CWChris Williamson3:22

      You put it on your cereal in the morning?

   9. CBChris Baber3:24

      Put

4. 3:25 – 4:19

   Pasta rice

   1. CBChris Baber3:25

      it on my cereal, putting on bit of cumin on my porridge. Um, I've done that before instead of cinnamon and it was a- like, by accident, and you don't want to try it. Um, and then, like, obviously pasta, rice, and if anyone's interested in adding more fiber to their diet, just go for the whole, whole wheat or whole grain alternatives. Sort of slower release of energy. Um, and then in the freezer, always got frozen peas, always like a bit of frozen broccoli and spinach. And they contain the same amount of nutrition as fresh. And even, like, peas are actually fresher. Um... Sorry, how do I describe that? Yeah, they are, because they hold their nutrition more 'cause they're frozen with an hour of picking. So if you go to the shops and buy a pack of fresh peas, they've been in there five days, you're getting more nutrition out of a frozen pea. So, don't go thinking frozen fruits and vegetables aren't as nutritious, because they are. And in some cases, even, even more

5. 4:19 – 6:03

   Frozen spinach

   1. CBChris Baber4:19

      so.

   2. CWChris Williamson4:19

      With the frozen spinach, do you get the little pucks?

   3. CBChris Baber4:22

      Yeah. And in terms of value for money, you know what it's like, everyone's tried to wilt some spinach and you put a bag in and you end up with, like, a teaspoon worth of spinach and it cost you about 2.53 quid for the bag. But in the, in the freezer you get way more weight for your money. So it's actually... It's a lot better value. And obviously it's not gonna go out of date in a, in a hurry.

   4. CWChris Williamson4:44

      Okay. So that's what we've got that kind of stays in the cupboard and you need to-

   5. CBChris Baber4:47

      Yeah.

   6. CWChris Williamson4:47

      ... keep replenishing that.

   7. CBChris Baber4:48

      Yeah.

   8. CWChris Williamson4:48

      What about like, so I'm, I'm going into the shop.

   9. CBChris Baber4:51

      Yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson4:51

       Where, where do I go?

   11. CBChris Baber4:53

       Where do you start? I think where you need to start is before you go to the shop, make a shopping list. So many people will get it wrong and they go in without an idea of what they want. So for me, the whole shopping experience starts at home. Generally for me, I'll do a Sunday night and I'll think, "Where am I this week?" Chances are, at the minute, at home. But when things are normal it's like, "Ah, maybe on Monday I'm at home, but Tuesday I've got an event or something." So let's plan a meal that I can do for two days that day and I've just got a quick fix, eat the leftovers or reheat them, and then maybe Wednesday again you might end up doing another batch. So I think planning your food not around necessarily what you fancy eating, but what- what's my week looking like? Which days have I got time to cook? Which days haven't I got time to cook? And that, that just helps take the stress out of cooking. So, the answer to your question of where do I start in the supermarket is, the top of the list of what it is you're gonna make that week. And if you've got a really well stocked cupboard of the spices, the herbs, chopped tomatoes and things, generally you're only ever gonna need to go to the fresh aisle for your proteins and potentially the fresh veg, 'cause the rest you should have in the cupboard.

6. 6:03 – 6:55

   Selecting meats

   1. CWChris Williamson6:03

      ... got you. Okay, so what are we doing when we're selecting meats? How do you- what's your rule for selecting meats?

   2. CBChris Baber6:09

      Okay. I mean, it, depending on what your nutritional needs are. I'm not a, I'm not, I'm not a nutritionist but I have a bit of an understanding of it. Obviously, things like a chicken breast is leaner than chicken thigh. Um, and for me, I always like to buy quality. So we live in a world now where it's easy to buy really cheap protein, like chicken and things like that. And my view on it is I'd rather eat less meat but of a higher quality. Say I had a mo- a budget for meat, whatever, 30 quid for the week, I'd rather eat four days a week and go the others meat-free than eat seven days a week on the lower quality. So, I- I do try and get the best quality I can

7. 6:55 – 8:42

   Eating with the season

   1. CBChris Baber6:55

      afford.

   2. CWChris Williamson6:55

      And what does that mean? Are you going to a local butcher's? Are you s- are you just happy going into Asda or whatever and M&S and getting the more expensive range?

   3. CBChris Baber7:03

      Yeah, I'll go to M&S and I know it's all British in there and it's all really responsibly sourced and farmed. And for me, British, I think, is key. Like, we need to be supporting British farmers, not just with our meat but also the veg. And I think a massive thing now is, like, carbon footprint. And so many people are going, say, they're cutting out meat to have a, a lesser impact on the environment. But if you're buying avocados that have been flown in from the other side of the world and you're not eating seasonal British food, you might eat asparagus in December, but if that's been flown in from Egypt, you might have been better off buying some chicken that was raised in the UK because it's traveled less air miles. So I think I'm eating with the season, so when I go into the shop or go to M&S, I'm gonna be thinking, "What's in season?" We're coming up to asparagus, make sure it's British. Jersey royal potatoes. I think we should be eating the best of British all year and that way you get the best taste. You get the sweetest strawberries in the summer and you get the nicest sort of, um, how do I say it? Just eat- eat British food and you can't go wrong. And then, I think educating yourself on what's into season. So for me, spring is coming up, we've got asparagus and, like, Jersey royals, like I say, so you can get really excited then and... I say excited, I geek out over food, but then I- I traveled the UK in 2019 and met different producers of all this amazing food and I was in the Isle of Wight eating these tomatoes that had just come into season and it was like eating sweets they were so good. So if we can start to get some understanding of what's in season, I can share all of this detail after, after the podcast.

8. 8:42 – 12:05

   Shopping lists

   1. CBChris Baber8:42

   2. CWChris Williamson8:42

      Awesome, man. All right, so we've gone to the shops-

   3. CBChris Baber8:44

      Yeah.

   4. CWChris Williamson8:44

      ... we've started to pick some stuff up. Obviously, we're gonna- you're gonna go through some recipes towards the end-

   5. CBChris Baber8:48

      Yeah.

   6. CWChris Williamson8:48

      ... and then we'll work back and people can make shopping lists-

   7. CBChris Baber8:51

      Yeah.

   8. CWChris Williamson8:52

      ... from that.

   9. CBChris Baber8:53

      Yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson8:53

       What, what are some of the things that people need to steer clear of that aren't necessarily the obvious ones? Like, obviously, don't absolutely hammer the confectionary aisle, but are there any other things-

   11. CBChris Baber9:02

       Yeah.

   12. CWChris Williamson9:02

       ... that people shouldn't be putting in their trolleys that they sometimes do?

   13. CBChris Baber9:06

       Okay. I mean, that, that's a tricky one. Everyone's sort of different and I wouldn't want to say, "Don't buy this. Don't buy that." It really comes down to, I think just- just having some self-control because it's the confectionary aisle that kills most people. And I guess my- my general thing is if it's not in the house, I can't eat it. So it's, if it's too tempting, then maybe just try and steer past it. But that's what it comes down to. If you've created a list and you go in with the intention of having the list in front of you and ticking off everything on there, I think it's going into shop without a plan. It's like you can't score without a goal. If you haven't got a goal in mind-

   14. CWChris Williamson9:44

       Yeah.

   15. CBChris Baber9:44

       ... you're not gonna get it right. So if you've got the things on the list, get that, that and that, then you're not gonna obviously spend as much as well because food costs money so if you stick to what you want, we shouldn't be wasting any food. There's a massive amount of awareness now around food waste and the amount of things people... I can give you some details on how to store food properly, make it last longer. But people are throwing food in the bin, just imagine you're throwing money in the bin. Like, how many times do you buy a pack of peppers, two of them will go a bit soft and they end up in the bin? Or the best one is rice. You make a massive thing of rice because you're not so sure on how much to make and it either goes in the bin that night or you put it in the fridge with good intent and then next lunchtime you're like, "Can't be arsed with this. Straight in the bin." And the easiest way we can all reduce our carbon footprint is to actually stop throwing food in the bin. People don't realize the environmental impact it has on- on- on the environment going into landfill. So I guess a few tips on how to avoid food waste, things like herbs, you buy herbs for one recipe but it might just be half a bunch. You can make herb ice cube trays. So just chop up your fresh herbs into an ice cube tray, fill them with water, put them in the freezer. Then if you've made a curry, a stew or a soup, you're literally just dropping fresh herbs into them. Um, rice and things like that, we're all guilty of making too much. Chill it as quickly as you can, put it in a window or something, let it cool. Pop it in the fridge or the freezer. If it's in the fridge, eat it the next day and p- you just have to be confident to reheat it. But if you go to other countries like China, like everyone knows egg fried rice, that is made with cold rice. They cook it the day before. It has to be cold to reheat it in the pan. So it's just thinking about how other people cook around the world and that for them is normal to use a rice to reheat it. Whereas in the UK, I think people are scared of it.

   16. CWChris Williamson11:36

       Terrified of it, yeah.

   17. CBChris Baber11:37

       Yeah, massively. And it, I mean, it can give you food poisoning but if you just heat it until it's piping hot and steam coming off it... Generally if you put the knuckle of- of- of- your knuckle in and it's too hot to touch, it's- it's sort of done. Um, and other things like chilis, you buy a pack of five chilis, put them in the freezer and you can actually grate them onto things, um, or you can drop them into a curry or whatever. So we should be making the most of everything we've got.

9. 12:05 – 13:45

   Minimum viable kitchen equipment

   1. CWChris Williamson12:05

      This is something I've thought about, what is the minimum viable kitchen utensil equipment?

   2. CBChris Baber12:13

      Yeah.

   3. CWChris Williamson12:13

      Pots, pans, knives-

   4. CBChris Baber12:15

      Pans.

   5. CWChris Williamson12:15

      ... things. What, what do we need in this, for this setup?

   6. CBChris Baber12:18

      Brilliant answer. I think for all the recipes I do, I want to make it... Well, my passion is to simply inspire people to cook from scratch. And I think there are so many barriers to cookery. How many times, you've probably done it, you open a book and it says, "Get out your, your stand mixer and then you need your mini food processor and a, a hand mixer," or something like that. And you think, "Well, I haven't even got the kit, never mind the ingredients." So I always try and keep everything I do so simple that a chopping board and a knife, couple of baking trays, and for me, a large non-stick oven-proof frying pan is amazing, because you can do everything in there from like a peri-peri chicken. You can start it on the hob, put it in the oven. Um, so a large non-stick frying pan and then probably a small sauce pan, scrambled eggs and all of that, and a larger one to do your rice and things. So, chopping board and a knife. And I would say invest in a good knife. If you've got a good knife, it makes chopping things easier. The sharper the knife, the easier it is to cut through.

   7. CWChris Williamson13:16

      What's a good knife?

   8. CBChris Baber13:17

      Um-

   9. CWChris Williamson13:17

      What sort of price range are we, are we looking at?

   10. CBChris Baber13:19

       I use Global Knives, and they... That's a brand that I use and they are everything from professional kitchens. And you can pay between 60 or 150 pound for a knife. But if you can get just one or two good knives, like a, a larger, it's called a chef's knife, you can do so much with it. And if you actually look after it, sharpen it, take care of it, it will last for years and it will make your job in the kitchen so much easier.

10. 13:45 – 14:55

    A pan

    1. CBChris Baber13:45

    2. CWChris Williamson13:45

       Cool. My, uh, my (laughs) housemate, Toby, got a, a pan like you're talking about-

    3. CBChris Baber13:52

       Yeah.

    4. CWChris Williamson13:52

       ... which is, the whole thing is, is iron.

    5. CBChris Baber13:55

       Uh-huh.

    6. CWChris Williamson13:55

       And when he got it, he was oiling it like a cricket bat.

    7. CBChris Baber13:59

       Yeah.

    8. CWChris Williamson13:59

       He was getting it and he's like putting oil on it and stuff.

    9. CBChris Baber14:01

       Uh-huh.

    10. CWChris Williamson14:02

        I'm pretty sure he took it to bed with him at one point.

    11. CBChris Baber14:04

        Oh, right. (laughs)

    12. CWChris Williamson14:05

        And... Yeah, no. (laughs) I know. I haven't used it.

    13. CBChris Baber14:07

        Yeah.

    14. CWChris Williamson14:07

        Uh, no, but, uh, I know that you can go really sort of deep and-

    15. CBChris Baber14:10

        Mm-hmm.

    16. CWChris Williamson14:10

        ... uh, complex on those as well, but you're saying just that as your, as your nice simple makeup for what you need.

    17. CBChris Baber14:16

        Yeah. I think for... Yeah. So just a quick recap there. Large non-stick frying pan that can go in the oven, because you can do everything in there from like soups, stews, stir-fries, curries. It's so, so versatile. Um, casseroles can do it because it can finish in the oven. Couple of baking trays. Large sauce pan, small sauce pan. Chopping board and a knife. And if you want to go to it, I would say a mini food processor, but everyone's got a NutriBullet now, so you can just make pestos in there, obviously smoothies, different sauces. So that's actually a really good bit of kit that has be... everyone got it to make smoothies in, but it's really quite good to, to do everything else as well.

11. 14:55 – 15:28

    A slow cooker

    1. CBChris Baber14:55

    2. CWChris Williamson14:55

       No need for a ceramic pot or a slow cooker?

    3. CBChris Baber14:58

       Um, do you know what? If you're meal prepping, that could be a good idea. I don't generally use the slow cooker so much, but if people want to do batch food, uh, f- a slow cooker's a good investment. It's just having the space. It depends how much room you've got, because for me, my thing started as I... I moved to London. I was living in the smallest flat you can imagine and I didn't have any room for anything, so my recipes just naturally developed into basic equipment and simple, easy to get a hold of ingredients.

12. 15:28 – 17:44

    Freezing and storing

    1. CWChris Williamson15:28

       Got you. Okay. So what about freezing and storing food effectively?

    2. CBChris Baber15:31

       Yeah. I think stuff, anything you put in the freezer, first of all, label it, because half the time you go and you think, "When did I put that in there again?" Like...

    3. CWChris Williamson15:41

       Oh, so we need some Tupperware. We also need maybe some-

    4. CBChris Baber15:44

       Ah, yeah.

    5. CWChris Williamson15:44

       ... Post-it Notes.

    6. CBChris Baber15:45

       Yeah, I would say get some sticky notes. And for me, I think freezer bags are amazing because you can put things in. Even if it was like, say, curry, you can put it in a freezer bag, flatten it down, and you can actually stack them up on top of each other. And you've, it just makes you make the most of your space. Tupperware's great, things like rice. Um, so yeah, some good freezer bags, some Tupperware. And I would say always label everything, um, and put the date on it. That's the key, because stuff like rice, you want enough for like a month. And generally food, I would say, use it was it... within three months. But I think people are guilty of cooking loads of food saying, "Oh God, it's great. I'll pop it in the freezer." And their freezer just keeps filling up and up and up and they're never getting anything out to defrost. So for me, I almost, you have intent thinking, make a note, right, "I've got three portions of chili. Which nights am I actually going to eat them?" Don't just have it there for emergencies. Like use the freezer, plan. Think, "Oh, on Friday night on my meal plan, I'll be eating frozen chili that I made last week," and make sure you're actually using the stuff. And then when it comes to storing things in the fridge, I always think, look at how the supermarket stocks the food. They're the experts. If they've put the peppers in a pack, keep them in the pack. "Oh, it was in the fridge in the shop as well, so I'll keep it in the fridge here." So salad and stuff in the bottom. Site- tightly seal the top if you want it to last longer. Obviously any protein and stuff in chicken, meat, on the bottom shelf. Reason you do that is because if you put it on the top, if there's a hole in the pack, you don't want any of the juice dripping out and contaminating everything else. And also use your senses as well, because a lot of things you can actually eat a little bit longer than it might say on the pack. So don't necessarily... You've had a yogurt open for one day longer than it says, like a Greek yogurt, it's probably going to be okay. Does it smell okay? Does it look okay? It probably is.

    7. CWChris Williamson17:43

       Got you.

13. 17:44 – 19:11

    Reheating food

    1. CWChris Williamson17:44

       What about reheating food?

    2. CBChris Baber17:48

       Mm, okay.

    3. CWChris Williamson17:49

       Because there's, there's a few sort of, uh, obstacles to try and navigate here. Reheating food in plastics, we've got some-

    4. CBChris Baber17:56

       Mm-hmm.

    5. CWChris Williamson17:56

       ... a lot of concerns around BPA or how it affects your endocrine system. That's before you get onto the taste side of stuff and making something not taste like ass again.

    6. CBChris Baber18:05

       So, so for what you've mentioned there, for me, I would- my first concern is taste. And the stuff you're talking about, I'm fully aware of it, but I'd rather it didn't taste like ass-

    7. CWChris Williamson18:16

       (laughs)

    8. CBChris Baber18:16

       ... because if you've gone to the effort of making something delicious, even just a simple chili or something, for me, I always think reheat it. I like to do it in a pan, if it's something like a, a batch cook. But it's- it is easier in the microwave, but I would say decant it from the, the Tupperware-

    9. CWChris Williamson18:34

       Mm-hmm.

    10. CBChris Baber18:35

        ... for the health reasons, but it does generally taste like plastic, doesn't it, when you heat it back up? And then it's a bit disappointing when you're eating your dinner. So, I think it's just making sure food's piping hot and that there'll be steam coming off it. And when you're reheating things, just keep it stirring constantly. If you're reheating things in a pan, don't necessarily put it into a piping hot pan. Keep it, and just heat it up gradually. For me, if I was reheating a portion of curry or a chili, probably give it 10 minutes, just let it simmer, let it come up to the boil and then it's- it's going to be done, but just needs to be piping hot all the way through.

    11. CWChris Williamson19:10

        Got you.

14. 19:11 – 19:52

    Freezer bags

    1. CWChris Williamson19:11

       So when we're working with those freezer bags that you were talking about before-

    2. CBChris Baber19:14

       Mm-hmm.

    3. CWChris Williamson19:14

       ... is it possible to get food out of them without having to reheat them in the bag?

    4. CBChris Baber19:18

       Um, yeah, yeah, definitely. You can just sort of like snip the top off and almost squeeze it out.

    5. CWChris Williamson19:24

       Knock it out type thing, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    6. CBChris Baber19:24

       It won't knock out. But then if you're reheating food from the freezer, I would say defrost it overnight first. So if you've got, just use chili as a good example, in a freezer bag, pop it in the fridge the night before you're going to eat it, and then it'll be defrosted by the time you come to get it out and reheat it. So it'll be quicker and safer to reheat. Um, so it will come straight out the bag, just pop it in the fridge overnight.

15. 19:52 – 21:01

    Glass Tupperware

    1. CBChris Baber19:52

    2. CWChris Williamson19:52

       And a good option for the people who are really going to be anal about their endocrine system and about concerns-

    3. CBChris Baber19:58

       Mm-hmm.

    4. CWChris Williamson19:58

       ... to do with the plastics, um, Pyrex and a couple of other companies have now started to make glass Tupperware that are still sealable.

    5. CBChris Baber20:07

       Yeah.

    6. CWChris Williamson20:07

       Um, and you can use those.

    7. CBChris Baber20:09

       Okay.

    8. CWChris Williamson20:10

       Actually, that's something that I would say, uh, that, that I would add to your minimalist kitchen toolkit.

    9. CBChris Baber20:16

       I would, yeah.

    10. CWChris Williamson20:16

        It would be like a glass Pyrex bowl, perhaps with-

    11. CBChris Baber20:21

        You're bang on with that.

    12. CWChris Williamson20:21

        ... with a, a, the, the plastic lid and it just means you can put some peas and a dollop of water in and throw it in for four minutes.

    13. CBChris Baber20:27

        Yeah.

    14. CWChris Williamson20:27

        And you know that that's going to turn them over. The same goes for any sort of mash that needs heating up, stuff like that.

    15. CBChris Baber20:33

        Yeah. That's a great shout, actually. I think, I didn't think of the storage stuff to get a hold of, but that is good. And do you know what? They last longer and it's, it's, you could get a Pyrex and it'll last you... I mean, God, I go home and my, there's still Pyrex there that was there when I was-

    16. CWChris Williamson20:47

        When you were a kid.

    17. CBChris Baber20:48

        Yeah.

    18. CWChris Williamson20:49

        (laughs)

    19. CBChris Baber20:49

        And it, it lasts, and I think the, the impact on the environment of just buying plastics, uh, it's an investment. It might cost a couple of quid more, but it will last longer, your food will taste better and it just looks a bit nicer, doesn't it?

    20. CWChris Williamson21:00

        Got you.

16. 21:01 – 22:38

    Navigating the week

    1. CWChris Williamson21:01

       Okay, so meal planning in advance.

    2. CBChris Baber21:03

       Yeah.

    3. CWChris Williamson21:04

       What, what, how are we doing that? Are we just going to sit down at the start of the week and say, "Right, okay, I need to cook on these days, I need to not cook on these days, but I don't know how hungry I'm going to be or-"

    4. CBChris Baber21:13

       Mm-hmm.

    5. CWChris Williamson21:14

       "... whether I fancy this on that day." How do you navigate that?

    6. CBChris Baber21:17

       Yeah. Right, how do I navigate that? I think you don't necessarily have to do all week at once. Some people might, they feel the pressure, "Oh, I need seven days of food." Just do three days at a time. Do what works for you. Um, and I think that's where, if you've got an amazing stock cupboard, like we talked about at the start, I always do these things called like a two-day dish. So everyone batch cooks a bolognese or something like that, but then actually I don't want to eat bolognese three nights in a row. But what happens if I've got the bolognese, spaghetti bolognese on Monday, then I've got this massive batch and I go on Tuesday, "Right, I know I've got some cumin in the cupboard, I've got some chili in the freezer and I've got some coriander ice cubes. I'm going to chuck that into a frying pan, maybe throw an onion and a pepper in that's in the back of the fridge that needs using, put some spices in, some dried oregano, drop in some coriander, I've got the chili in there." And you've turned last night's bolognese into tonight's chili. And then maybe the next night you might go, "Oh, I know, I'll buy some, some tacos and I'll just fry that off and put in some kidney beans and make like a chili bean taco tostada thing." Maybe you can scoop some avocado on the top. So it's how do you turn one meal into three meals for the next few days is a great, great way to do it. But that just comes down to having the right stuff in the cupboard.

    7. CWChris Williamson22:37

       Got

17. 22:38 – 24:49

    Cooking in one go

    1. CWChris Williamson22:38

       you. How long in advance or what's the sort of maximum that you think we can cook in one go? Is that, let's say it's a single guy or single girl cooking for themselves-

    2. CBChris Baber22:48

       Okay.

    3. CWChris Williamson22:48

       ... and they're maybe going to do sort of lunch or dinner for-

    4. CBChris Baber22:52

       Mm-hmm.

    5. CWChris Williamson22:52

       ... the next couple of days. How much would you try and do at once? 'Cause I have some friends that, in the by (laughs) , the fitness industry, who are trying to do seven days-

    6. CBChris Baber23:01

       Yeah.

    7. CWChris Williamson23:01

       ... like Sunday, Sunday evening is seven days of food-

    8. CBChris Baber23:04

       Yeah.

    9. CWChris Williamson23:04

       ... created in one go.

    10. CBChris Baber23:06

        Do you know what? I- I've never been one for doing that. And I see things on Instagram that say, "Oh, meal prep Sunday." I'm thinking, "You've actually just written a full day of the week off by doing that." Because they're literally, the thing this, hey, it's just my opinion, but on a Sunday, I don't necessarily want to spend five, six hours preparing seven meals. If you can get comfortable with cooking regularly, maybe you just need to plan for Monday and Tuesday and then spend half an hour on Wednesday. So, um, I think always just have a think, how much time does it, is it going to take me to prep for seven days? It could be quite a lot of time. For me, I would say three days is probably a good amount. And then you wouldn't necessarily have to freeze anything. Then you don't have to go through the process of defrosting. So if it was a Sunday, you could comfortably make dinner on Sunday night, eat it on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. And it's just thinking about how to turn those leftovers into a new dish the next day. So, for instance, I'm going to talk about like a homemade zinger burger later where you basically corn flake the chicken-

    11. CWChris Williamson24:11

        Mm-hmm.

    12. CBChris Baber24:11

        ... uh, cornflakes. Flour, egg, not breadcrumbs, cornflakes. You get the crispiest exterior. Delicious in a, in a burger bun with, like, a, a low-fat yogurt and, uh, sweet chili sauce dip, something like that. Then the next day, if you've got that chicken, you could make a lovely salad wrap and just get, like, a wrap, some fresh salad, shred that crispy chicken in, and put some more of that yogurt sauce on the top. So it's, like you say, keep it interesting and think about how you can turn it into something else. But you don't necessarily need to do seven days in a row. And also, how fresh is the food going to be by the seventh day? Do you know what I mean?

    13. CWChris Williamson24:48

        Hmm.

18. 24:49 – 25:18

    Making a base for another meal

    1. CWChris Williamson24:49

       Yeah. Tha- I- I've never seen that done before, but to think about making a meal that becomes the base for another meal, that becomes the base for another meal.

    2. CBChris Baber24:57

       Yeah.

    3. CWChris Williamson24:57

       I haven't thought about doing it like that, but it does make a lot of sense.

    4. CBChris Baber25:01

       I think it's a great one, and I think it really lends itself well to stuff that we do batch cook, which is generally, like, slower-cooked things, chili, bolognese, curry, because it's so easy to add different spices and stuff into there to totally transform it into something else.

    5. CWChris Williamson25:17

       Got

19. 25:18 – 28:44

    Common kitchen mistakes

    1. CWChris Williamson25:18

       you. Uh, before we get into the recipes-

    2. CBChris Baber25:20

       Yeah.

    3. CWChris Williamson25:20

       ... what is some of the most common errors or any other errors that you commonly see people making in the kitchen or with meal prep-

    4. CBChris Baber25:27

       Yeah.

    5. CWChris Williamson25:27

       ... or with anything else? Like, what, what do people need to stop doing? If you were to give a public service announcement of, like, "Stop doing this in the kitchen," what would it be?

    6. CBChris Baber25:35

       Stop overcooking fish.

    7. CWChris Williamson25:37

       (laughs)

    8. CBChris Baber25:38

       Because do you know what? People are so scared, and I don't get... Hey, don't, I can't blame them because the education of how to cook in the UK isn't amazing, but I get a lot of messages and feedback, "Oh, I always overcook my fish. How do I stop doing it?" It's like, just don't put it in for so long. Like, you've got to think, you can eat fish raw, you can eat sashimi, you can eat sushi. So if you're buying fresh quality fish, I- you can eat it slightly underdone. I think people are skip- they overcook chicken and it becomes dry. You can buy a meat probe if you really want to get anal to make sure it's cooked. But as soon as it's white and there's no pink... So don't overcook your proteins. You spend the most money probably on protein. Enjoy it. And also, I think seasoning. People need to learn to season their food properly because lack of seasoning, but also seasoning at the right time. So many people make something and they're pouring loads of salt on at the end, but actually seasoning at different stages of the recipe and the cooking process completely changes the flavor. So if you season, say, chicken half an hour before you cook it, that salt is actually going to change the texture of the meat, also flavor the meat from the outside in. Whereas if you're just pouring it on at the end, you're going to get a different thing. So don't overcook your protein. Don't... Well, just basically learn to season your food and also taste as you go, because everyone's palates are different. That's what I love about home cooking. You're not in a restaurant. You're in control. You can make it how you want. So if you like it a bit spicy, you can add more chili. If you like it more acidic, add more vinegar. So don't be scared to taste as you go. I'm trying to think what else people shouldn't do in the kitchen. Um, cor, it's a tricky one. I think just take your time. Like, don't rush it. For, for me, I want to make food and cooking fun and enjoyable, and people rushing the process. I've done live cookalongs where I've got people who've got their pan and food in before I have. I'm like, "Hang on a second." Like-

    9. CWChris Williamson27:44

       (laughs)

    10. CBChris Baber27:45

        ... like literally, I did this charity cookalong and a really nice group of six people. There's these two lads on the screen and we're just doing this really simple bacon pasta. Everyone else really engaged. "What do we do next?" I said, "Have you got your pan out?" He says, "Oh, I've got the bacon in." I'm like, see, you're not even... Like, just listen, and if you've got a recipe, read it. I think, literally, mate. And we had a crumble. We, we, like honestly, the basics. We did this strawberry and almond crumble. It was delicious, but theirs wasn't because they made, they started the crumble mix before we went and they ended up with like a sconedough.

    11. CWChris Williamson28:18

        (laughs)

    12. CBChris Baber28:18

        I'm thinking like, and that's just classic example of not listening or reading. So for me, if I've got a recipe in front of me-

    13. CWChris Williamson28:26

        Mm-hmm.

    14. CBChris Baber28:27

        ... read it from start to finish, and I guess this isn't what people shouldn't do, it's just a tip to get you into a good habit. Prep everything before you start cooking. So chop everything up, get everything out of the cupboard and just have it all ready to cook and then it, it makes the cooking bit a little bit more enjoyable.

20. 28:44 – 31:22

    The importance of food

    1. CBChris Baber28:44

    2. CWChris Williamson28:44

       Hmm. Yeah, that is right.

    3. CBChris Baber28:46

       Don't rush.

    4. CWChris Williamson28:46

       I mean, dude, I, I, I'm so thoughtless with the way that I actually do stuff in the kitchen.

    5. CBChris Baber28:54

       Yeah.

    6. CWChris Williamson28:54

       Incredibly thoughtful when it comes to my productivity systems-

    7. CBChris Baber28:57

       Yeah.

    8. CWChris Williamson28:57

       ... and how I sit down at my desk on a morning and organize-

    9. CBChris Baber29:01

       Yeah.

    10. CWChris Williamson29:01

        ... my Eisenhower matrix from urgent to important-

    11. CBChris Baber29:03

        Yeah.

    12. CWChris Williamson29:03

        ... and all this sort of stuff.

    13. CBChris Baber29:05

        Uh-huh.

    14. CWChris Williamson29:05

        But the food which is literally fueling my being, to be able to do everything else that I decide in my life-

    15. CBChris Baber29:12

        Yeah.

    16. CWChris Williamson29:12

        ... I'm like, "Uh, right, I'll see if I can listen to a podcast whilst I wash up-"

    17. CBChris Baber29:17

        Okay.

    18. CWChris Williamson29:17

        "... whilst I do this thing, and maybe answer an email. Oh, I've got a bit of time, I'll ring someone while I'm, like, just throwing the same-

    19. CBChris Baber29:24

        Yeah.

    20. CWChris Williamson29:24

        ... stuff that I always throw into a pan." And, um, yeah, I, I, I get that. Respect, respect the kitchen.

    21. CBChris Baber29:33

        Do you know what? I think that, what you've said is probably going to resonate with so many people. I think you need to think of food as that really important thing that fuels your body, it allows us to be more productive. It's how we can alter our health, um, how we can train harder, how we can get stronger, how we can be better people. And give it, like you say, give it that respect for me. Do you know what it is? This is a great analogy with food and cooking. So many people think it's hard, it, they can't do it. I think everyone can. Everyone's got the ability in them to become an amazing home cook. And easiest way to describe it, we all start training in the gym, we're hitting it hard-... we've just started, though. The first six weeks, you are aching, you're seeing no gains. But the first time you look in the mirror, maybe it's, "Oh, I've gained some muscle here," or, "Oh, I've lost some weight." And then you want to go back for more because it starts to become addictive. For me, and the feedback I get, is the first time you make a recipe from start to finish, if you're a total novice cook and you taste it and you go, or maybe your girlfriend, your family, whoever go, "Bloody hell, that's delicious," and you put a smile on their face and yours, that's the moment. Which is like when you put the muscle on in the gym where you go, "Do you know what? That was pretty easy. It was really nice and it made people happy."

    22. CWChris Williamson30:47

        Hmm.

    23. CBChris Baber30:47

        "I want to do that again." And it becomes like this habit. But I think exactly what you say, treat it as something... it is important. And the more you do it and focus your attention on it, the easier it becomes and the more fun you can have with it. And for me, I, like, I put the radio on. Like, let's put the radio on, I'm a bit old school, like turn the dials and all of that. Um, put, put the radio on, get everything out, prepare it, and just plan that time in as you would plan in your gym session. You've planned it into your day I imagine, but a lot of people just cram that food in at the end as a, a means to

21. 31:22 – 33:28

    The connection between food and your body

    1. CBChris Baber31:22

       an end.

    2. CWChris Williamson31:22

       Very much a utilitarian approach, I think.

    3. CBChris Baber31:24

       Yeah.

    4. CWChris Williamson31:24

       People just see it as, this is the thing that sadly I have to do before I can put the stuff in my mouth to fuel the things that I want to do. And, um-

    5. CBChris Baber31:34

       Yeah.

    6. CWChris Williamson31:35

       ... Don McGregor, uh, the ex-COO of Social Chain was on the show, episode four.

    7. CBChris Baber31:40

       Yeah.

    8. CWChris Williamson31:40

       And he said to me, "You do know that your brain and everything that your body is made of, is built by the stuff that you put in your mouth. That's it."

    9. CBChris Baber31:50

       Yeah.

    10. CWChris Williamson31:50

        And you don't realize the, the connection is the cells in your body, the quality of the cells in your body-

    11. CBChris Baber31:56

        Yeah.

    12. CWChris Williamson31:56

        ... is directly influenced by the food that you choose to eat. And it's like, dude, when I, when I think back to (laughs) to uni, and this may be, have been before your, uh, food awakening-

    13. CBChris Baber32:07

        Yeah.

    14. CWChris Williamson32:07

        ... as well, I, I, I shit you not, there will have been weeks that I would have gone without a vegetable.

    15. CBChris Baber32:14

        Yeah.

    16. CWChris Williamson32:14

        Like, like weeks and weeks.

    17. CBChris Baber32:18

        It's just madness, isn't it? And, uh, it really is. And do you know what? I always say food is a joy and we are lucky enough to live in the, the society that we're in to have access to amazing quality ingredients, nutritional advice, um, it's all there in front of us. And on a, like, there are people out there who don't have access to any food whatsoever. So, I feel that we should respect it even more because we do have the ability to go and buy something really, really good. We've got the ability that you could go on the internet now and find the health benefits of salmon, how to cook it, and a million different sources. Instant access to how to even cook the food that you can... you've got access to. So I think you've got to treat it with respect and one thing especially I think we've found in lockdown, the one thing we can control in the day is what we eat for dinner. "Oh, that's what I'm getting in my world of food," and it's something that I think in lockdown people have started to do more and realized that is the one time in the day they can actually get together with their family and enjoy it as a social thing. So, I think there's so much more to food that we need to think about than just fuel

    18. CWChris Williamson33:27

        Yeah.

22. 33:28 – 35:26

    Making food as a potential source of pleasure

    1. CWChris Williamson33:28

    2. CBChris Baber33:28

       ... holding you down.

    3. CWChris Williamson33:28

       I mean, seeing it as a, as the experience of making the food as a potential source-

    4. CBChris Baber33:33

       Hmm.

    5. CWChris Williamson33:33

       ... of pleasure, or even the eating-

    6. CBChris Baber33:35

       Yeah.

    7. CWChris Williamson33:35

       ... of the food, not just that it's tasty-

    8. CBChris Baber33:37

       Yeah.

    9. CWChris Williamson33:37

       ... but that in the same way as when you clean the house before your missus gets home because you know it's going to put you in the, in the, uh-

    10. CBChris Baber33:44

        Yeah.

    11. CWChris Williamson33:44

        ... like her good books. The, the same thing can be done, you can give pleasure and receive pleasure just through the act of making a nice meal. Again, something else that I-

    12. CBChris Baber33:54

        That you don't-

    13. CWChris Williamson33:54

        ... have never, never dipped into.

    14. CBChris Baber33:56

        And do you know what really I think got me into food? I, as a kid, I would get in from school and I'd just have this obsession of how you can turn some raw ingredients into a meal and my parents worked really hard and they worked long hours and I would just get in from school and every night from about nine, eight, nine years old, I'd make dinner for my mom and dad. And just to see the joy of putting the food down on the table that I'd made and them eating it and their smile, and we all sat together and I thought, "Do you know what? It's not even about what's on the plate, we're here together talking and having a good time." And I think there's just so much more to food than the fuel. However, I would say when you're an athlete, because I know there'll be a lot of guys and girls listening to this that train hard, the volumes of food you've got to eat, it can become boring. But that's why you've got to make it taste good. Um, so interestingly enough, there was a good documentary on Amazon about the, the Tour de France and some of the teams and how the nutrition has changed. And now they have like Michelin star chefs that follow them on the tour with a food van and they literally go off foraging, sourcing ingredients from local farms, dairies, cheese, because these cyclists are starving. They eat about 8,000, 9,000 calories a day and they're like, "You really think I'm going to eat 9,000 calories of boiled chicken and rice with no seasoning or flavor?" So they're paying these Michelin star chefs to follow them and, uh, that's the key I think for anyone training. Keep it tasty and then you'll be able to eat as much food as you need to, to fuel yourself.

    15. CWChris Williamson35:25

        Hmm.

23. 35:26 – 38:54

    Cauliflower and broccoli

    1. CWChris Williamson35:26

       Yeah, and I suppose on the converse of that as well, if you're needing to put yourself into a calorie deficit, that you can-

    2. CBChris Baber35:33

       Yeah.

    3. CWChris Williamson35:33

       ... you can make food which is slightly calo- more calorie sparse, more tasty-

    4. CBChris Baber35:38

       Yeah.

    5. CWChris Williamson35:38

       ... and more appetizing.

    6. CBChris Baber35:39

       Yeah. Absolutely.

    7. CWChris Williamson35:39

       Everyone's kind of turned their nose up at a plate of cauliflower and broccoli and-

    8. CBChris Baber35:44

       Yeah.

    9. CWChris Williamson35:44

       ... spinach a little bit. But I imagine if it was done by Chris Baber, it might taste a bit different.

    10. CBChris Baber35:48

        Yeah. Well, I think that- that's (laughs) , that's the thing to think about. Veg, because you mentioned when you were at uni, you weren't eating much of it, vegetables are lower in carbs. Um, but they, if you think about your stomach, it's only one size. It doesn't know if it's, it, it's full. So things like the cauliflower is great for filling you up, but how do you make it s- tasty? And broccoli, well, for me, with broccoli, tiny splash of oil in the pan, some garlic, throw the broccoli in, you can put a bit of chili in there, splash of soy sauce, even a tiny drizzle of honey, and you've made like this sticky, sweet, salty, sort of caramelized broccoli, which could have just been boiled and boring. So it's how do you make this stuff more adventurous? And it just comes back to the herbs and spices and-... stuff you, stuff you've got in the, in the stock cupboard, Chris.

    11. CWChris Williamson36:34

        Cool. What's the first recipe we're gonna learn?

    12. CBChris Baber36:36

        Okay. So, the first recipe is a really easy chicken bhuna, because I think, I mean, hey, I love an Indian takeaway. I love it. My first job was in a Michelin star Indian restaurant in London. I've got such a passion for Indian food. And everyone has this association of Indian food, unhealthy. "It's from the India." You can make some delicious curry. So, chicken bhuna, this is a great one for batch cooking. Really simple, really basic stock cupboard ingredients as well. You can do it with chicken thighs or breasts. If you're doing chicken thighs and anyone wanting to watch their calories, top tip for meat, trim off any visible fat, and you're literally trimming off calories as you go. So, any white bits, just snip it off. But literally cook your onions about 10 minutes in olive oil until they're really nice and golden, and that's gonna add sweetness and depth of flavor. Some garlic, some ginger, and some chili goes in. In with the chicken, and then all you need is turmeric and a good curry powder. Sprinkle that in, coat the chicken. Loads of tinned tomatoes, a good handful of peppers, and literally just simmer that for 20 minutes until the chicken's cooked and the water's sort of evaporated from, from the pan, and then finish it off with lemon juice and coriander. That's really healthy. It's low in fat, high in protein, and you can obviously serve that with any rice that you want to, to serve it with. Top tip for basmati rice to get it perfectly fluffy, you always go for the absorption method, which is say one part rice to two parts water. So, if you've got a mug, full mug of rice, rinse it under a tap in a sieve until the water runs clear. That takes off the excess starch. Pour the rice into the pan with two mugs of water. So, one part rice, two part water, lid on, lowest heat, 10 minutes, perfect every time. So, that's a chicken bhuna. It's simple, easy to get hold of ingredients. Have it for your dinner that night, then you can definitely put that in the fridge or the freezer. And if you didn't fancy curry the next night, why don't you do like a, a, a spicy chicken wrap? You could toast up a little, uh, tortilla. You could shred in some salad, some, uh, some cucumbers, some tomatoes, mix some, uh, Greek yogurt with mint sauce just out the fridge. Put it in, and you've just made like a spicy tikka wrap for lunch the next day.

24. 38:54 – 40:53

    Chicken bun

    1. CBChris Baber38:54

    2. CWChris Williamson38:54

       We should say that on your Instagram, which is at...

    3. CBChris Baber38:58

       Uh, chrisbaber. Yeah.

    4. CWChris Williamson39:00

       @chrisbaber. Um, there'll be-

    5. CBChris Baber39:02

       Yeah.

    6. CWChris Williamson39:02

       ... a breakdown of all of the different recipes that we're going through today.

    7. CBChris Baber39:04

       Yeah.

    8. CWChris Williamson39:04

       So, for everyone that's listening, you don't need to write this down frantically or, or like keep on rewinding or whatever.

    9. CBChris Baber39:10

       Yeah.

    10. NANarrator39:10

        I'll put them all in there.

    11. CWChris Williamson39:11

        Um, but you can have, you can look at, look at your Instagram while you're narrating-

    12. CBChris Baber39:14

        Yeah.

    13. CWChris Williamson39:14

        ... and they're rushing around the kitchen trying to get this all done.

    14. CBChris Baber39:16

        Yeah.

    15. CWChris Williamson39:16

        Okay. So, we've got a chicken bhuna. What's next?

    16. CBChris Baber39:18

        Um, well, we talked about this, uh, sort of zinger burger fake-away. I think fake-aways are great because it's the food we crave and love, isn't it? But you can make it healthy. So, basically we're gonna take a lovely lean chicken breast, dip it in some flour, dip it in some egg, dip it in crushed up cornflakes is the secret ingredient here, and then... Oh, sorry, let's go back a step. In the flour, put some smoked paprika. You can put some cumin. Any spices you've got. You could even use fajita mix. Whatever you've got in the cupboard, you can put it in there. Then into the bread cr- uh, into the cornflakes and literally bake it in the oven. No deep frying or anything like that, but because it's a-

    17. CWChris Williamson39:57

        So, just on, on a, on a baking tray?

    18. CBChris Baber39:59

        ... on a baking tray, 200 degrees. It'll probably take about 25 to 30 minutes depending on the thickness. But because you've got that, um, egg and cornflake coating, it keeps all the juiciness in the chicken. Then literally toast up, you could do a brioche bun, you could do a whole wheat bun, whatever you want. Um, or you could go boneless if you wanna drop the carbs. And then for like a healthy little sauce, some Greek yogurt. You can just add a squeeze of honey, squeeze of lemon, and a little bit of mustard or sweet chili sauce and just spread that in, and you've just made a delicious, um, spin on a, on a zinger burger. Really crispy. And we talked about this one earlier, just slice that chicken up the next day and you can again, put that through salads or you could even reheat that and put it into like a, a rice dish. But you're just gonna have this crispy crumbed chicken, which is pretty basic and it could lend itself to whatever way you want to go with it.

25. 40:53 – 41:48

    Sweet potato wedges

    1. CWChris Williamson40:53

       How would you add, uh, some extra filler in that, like a, like a wedges or a, or a, a veg?

    2. CBChris Baber40:58

       Yeah.

    3. CWChris Williamson40:58

       How could you do some, can you propose some veg and some wedges-

    4. CBChris Baber41:02

       Absolutely.

    5. CWChris Williamson41:02

       ... or something that can go in the oven along with that, so it's just like in and done?

    6. CBChris Baber41:06

       I... 100%. So, for me, sweet potato wedges. Love them. Just cut the, cut a sweet potato into sort of one-centimeter thick wedges, tiny drizzle of olive oil, bit of seasoning. You can put any spices on you want, put them in the oven for about half an hour.

    7. CWChris Williamson41:19

       Do you keep the skin on or are you, uh, have you peeled it?

    8. CBChris Baber41:22

       I keep the skin on because there's a lot of nutrition in the skin. In terms of veg to go with it, you could make a really simple coleslaw. People might think coleslaw is difficult or whatever, but literally just shred up some cabbage really, really fine. That's where a sharp knife comes in handy. Maybe grate some carrot, a little bit of red onion, some Greek yogurt, squeeze of lemon juice, salt, pepper, and that is a delicious coleslaw. Perfect.

26. 41:48 – 44:27

    Peri Peri Chicken

    1. CBChris Baber41:48

    2. CWChris Williamson41:48

       I love it, man. Okay, so we've got chicken burger, we've got chicken bhuna. What's next?

    3. CBChris Baber41:52

       Yeah. Um, we wanna do this peri-peri chicken. So, everyone loves peri-peri chicken. And for me, we talk about as well value. So, buying a whole chicken is far more economical than buying just the breasts or the thighs. And you can spatchcock a chicken, which sound, might sound complicated, but literally you flip the chicken over and just use a pair of scissors and you cut the backbone out, and then you can just flatten the chicken out. And then you make a marinade just with red wine vinegar, some olive oil, uh, some paprika and oregano, and some chili. Whizz it up. Cover the chicken in it, pop it in the oven for 45 minutes or so until it's cooked all the way through. Spatchcocking the chicken speeds up the cooking time so much.... and you're gonna get this, like, crispy peri-peri chicken skin. And that one would be perfect with the sweet potato wedges, but for me, I love to do, like, a spin on the matcha peas that you get in, uh, Nando's. Classic frozen peas, take them out, uh, you can use mint sauce from a jar or just a bit of fresh mint, or you could even use the mint ice cube thing that we talked about. Salt, pepper, little bit of chili. If you've got some crème fraîche or yogurt, you can put a bit of that in to make it a bit creamy and just give it a good mash-up. Um, peri-peri chicken and matcha peas, and you could do your, your roast veg or whatever in there, or it'd be good with rice. But then that one really is perfect to think there, I might just have a quarter of that chicken. That'll last another three days in the fridge, and you can literally use that for whatever you want. So, it's a pretty basic thing. You could do a nice stir-fried rice, chicken fried rice with it the next day. Maybe you've got some leftover rice. Or you could just put it through a salad or in a sandwich, but the key thing is there, you've roasted the chicken and it's gonna last three days. You can go whichever way you want.

    4. CWChris Williamson43:39

       How do you take the backbone out of the chicken?

    5. CBChris Baber43:41

       Um, so if you visualize the chicken, flip it onto a board breast side down, and then right all the way from neck to arse, there will be a bone which is about half an inch thick, and literally sharp pair of kitchen scissors, you can snip all the way up one side, all the way up the other, and just literally peel it out, and that's it. And then what you would do is take the chicken, flip it back over, and then with the heel of your hand, you just press it down and you'll hear a crack, and it'll just flatten out, a bit like when you're at the masseuse and they press your back down, that same action and you'll hear the same crack, and then that's your chicken spatchcocked. And that's a tip if you want to speed up the, the cooking time of the chicken from maybe an hour and a half to less than an hour.

27. 44:27 – 46:36

    Vegan Meal Ideas

    1. CBChris Baber44:27

    2. CWChris Williamson44:27

       Awesome. What about vegans who are listening-

    3. CBChris Baber44:32

       Yeah.

    4. CWChris Williamson44:33

       ... who also need to train, who also want to get their protein in?

    5. CBChris Baber44:36

       Uh-huh.

    6. CWChris Williamson44:36

       What's, uh, uh, your favorite high-protein vegan-

    7. CBChris Baber44:40

       Okay.

    8. CWChris Williamson44:40

       ... meal?

    9. CBChris Baber44:41

       Vegan. For me, you know, like, I think I worked in a fine dine, an Indian restaurant, and in India, because of religious reasons, a lot of, um, people don't eat meat or dairy products as well in some instances, and there's some amazing vegan curries where they've be- they just happen to have been vegan for however many hundred years, but it's never been labeled as that. So, things like a delicious chickpea curry. Um, I recently did a really nice, not on a curry vibe, but for more of an Asian spin, like a teriyaki tofu. If you get, like, a firm tofu block and just literally make soy sauce with some honey, squeeze of lime juice, um, you can put some grated ginger and garlic, marinade the tofu for maybe half an hour or even overnight, and bake it in the fridge, and you get this sort of caramelized sweet, sticky, savory block of tofu. That is just perfect on top of some, I don't know, you could just use rice noodles, put some veg through it, or even another veggie- uh, vegan option, you could do, like, a vegan satay, um, veggie noodle stir-fry, kind of like a chow mein. And you can just get loads of peanut butter for your, for your protein, mix it with some coconut milk, bit of soy sauce, some sweet chili sauce, some garlic and ginger, quick satay sauce, stir-fry some rice noodles, throw in loads of veggies, toss it all through, and then you could even put the tofu through that on the top. Oh, there's so many options, but I think for me, pulses and beans are probably the thing that I like most.

    10. CWChris Williamson46:13

        What's that? What's the first thing?

    11. CBChris Baber46:15

        Um, like pulses, like lentils, things like that. They're high in protein, they're packed full of fiber, and they're a great replacement. So, if you're doing chili or bolognese, you can do that with lentils. Um, I think it's really underutilized, it's really good value for money and it comes in a tin. And all you have to do is add it to things. So-

28. 46:36 – 50:53

    Blood Work

    1. CBChris Baber46:36

    2. CWChris Williamson46:36

       I had my, um, blood work done by a company called InsideTracker in America a couple-

    3. CBChris Baber46:42

       Mm-hmm.

    4. CWChris Williamson46:42

       ... of years ago. Uh, they're out of Boston, and, um, they looked very closely at my blood profile and, um, from that derived some foods-

    5. CBChris Baber46:52

       Mm-hmm.

    6. CWChris Williamson46:52

       ... that I should add into my diet that would positively impact different-

    7. CBChris Baber46:56

       Oh, okay.

    8. CWChris Williamson46:56

       ... different profiles. So, um, how is your insulin levels looking? How is the different growth factors looking? And, um, one of the things that needed impacting was my lipid profile, and they said that the single most... I had, like, the total cliché young guy-

    9. CBChris Baber47:13

       Okay.

    10. CWChris Williamson47:13

        ... um, issue, and the, the best thing that they suggested was beans. Kidney-

    11. CBChris Baber47:19

        Yeah.

    12. CWChris Williamson47:19

        Different types of kidney beans and, uh, other tinned beans-

    13. CBChris Baber47:23

        Yeah.

    14. CWChris Williamson47:23

        ... and they just said just add that in a couple-

    15. CBChris Baber47:25

        Uh-huh.

    16. CWChris Williamson47:25

        ... of times a week and it fixes downstream, the downstream, um, blood profile effect.

    17. CBChris Baber47:31

        Yeah.

    18. CWChris Williamson47:32

        It fixes m- most of the things that most-

    19. CBChris Baber47:35

        Wow.

    20. CWChris Williamson47:35

        ... people have as a, as a problem.

    21. CBChris Baber47:37

        They're eaten so widely around the world. I don't know that we eat as much of them in, in this country as, as elsewhere, but they are... it's like a super... well, am I allowed to say it? It's like a superfood. They're so good for you. It's the protein, the fiber, but there's so much nutrition and people don't realize, like, a, a tin of beans is one of your five a day. I think about three tablespoons of, like, chickpeas, kidney beans, w- cannellini beans. People don't realize that, and there's... they're, they're a good source of carbohydrate as well. So, I'll be honest, most days for lunch I'll incorporate some beans into a salad or I'll even add them into recipes 'cause I know how, how good they are for you, but an amazing source of protein, that's for sure.

    22. CWChris Williamson48:18

        What's next?

    23. CBChris Baber48:20

        Um... Ooh, I was thinking about, like, drunken noodles, which is a Thai dish, and this is a good one if you are on a time frame. So, if you've got ten minutes and you wanna make something really delicious, literally prawn drunken noodles is rice noodles, you just soak them in boiling water. You need your prawns, you need some eggs, and you need some cherry tomatoes, and you can add any veggies you want, and there's bok choy. And then for the sauce, it's literally oyster sauce, some soy sauce, some fish sauce, and some sugar.... stir that together. Then you literally fry off some, m- y- you can put some shallots or something if you want, add the prawns in, add the tomatoes in, add the egg, scramble the egg a little bit, any greens, pour in the, um, sauce, add the noodles, stir-fry it together, and in less than 10 minutes, you've made, like, a Thai street food dish, uh, which is proteins, carbs, and delicious. And you can get some veg in there as well.

    24. CWChris Williamson49:18

        How hot's the pan for that?

    25. CBChris Baber49:20

        Oh, really, really hot for that. So anything like stir-fries and things, you want it super, super-hot. That's why it's always key with thing like a stir-fry to get everything prepped, 'cause you're not going to have time to start chopping something when the prawns are in. It's all going to be sort of overcooked.

    26. CWChris Williamson49:34

        Mm.

    27. CBChris Baber49:34

        So super-hot, smoking-hot. If you put some oil in, you should see, like, a shimmer just coming off the pan.

    28. CWChris Williamson49:40

        Great.

    29. CBChris Baber49:40

        But you can do that, it doesn't have to be prawns. You could use beef, you could use chicken. Things like that just lend themself well to any, any kind of protein.

    30. CWChris Williamson49:47

        And you reckon that's under 20 minutes from start of prep until food-
29. 50:53 – 54:34

    Frozen Noodles

    1. CBChris Baber50:53

       everywhere.

    2. CWChris Williamson50:53

       What's the, uh, what's the rules for egg noodles? 'Cause sometimes, I see them fresh, sometimes I see you can-

    3. CBChris Baber51:00

       Mm-hmm.

    4. CWChris Williamson51:00

       ... I think you can get them frozen as well. Have you got any rules for that?

    5. CBChris Baber51:03

       Um, I wouldn't say there's a rule. Just check, check the packet instruction. For me, with egg noodles, I always just buy the dried ones, um, and then you would just cook them in boiling water for about four minutes, and then you can add them into, to, to, to a stir-fry or a sauce. But then they're really good to be chilled as well, and kept in the fridge and you can make a delicious salad with it. If you just cook some noodles, shred some veg, squeeze a lemon, bit of soy sauce and honey, nice zingy sort of noodle salad. But then other types of noodles, you can get rice noodles. So if anyone's sort of not eating dairy, rice noodles are... it's, it's a noodle made of rice. They, they mix the rice with water, grind it to a paste, and then form it into noodles and it's dried, and all you have to do is pour boiling water on it to sort of bring them back to life. And you can eat them then and there, or you can add them in to sort of stir-fries. Then you've got like the straight to wok noodles that you've probably seen in a packet that are kind of soft and they're in a sealed packet, and again, that just literally as it says, straight into the wok. So, just read the packaging as well. I think a lot of times people buy products and they bypass the thought of, "Oh, I'm not, I don't need to read that." And then they wonder why it hasn't worked or doesn't taste so good. But there, there's generally instructions on, on everything we buy now.

    6. CWChris Williamson52:16

       Yeah. What's next?

    7. CBChris Baber52:18

       Um, well, I was gonna... I sort of went down the teriyaki tofu route. But I was going to do like a teriyaki salmon, because I think this is another quick one which people can do in less than 10 minutes really. Get some salmon, put some soy sauce, some grated ginger, some garlic, a squeeze of honey. If you've got any mirin, if you've got that in the cupboard, you can add it. If not, squeeze a, squeeze a lime juice. And then literally just soak the salmon in it, pop it in the frying pan, cook, fry the salmon off for probably a couple of minutes on each side. Pour the rest of the sauce in, and because it's got the honey, it's going to reduce down and go really sticky and sort of glaze the salmon. And I love to do stir-fried broccoli and garlic with that, which is just little bit of sesame oil, in with the broccoli, loads of garlic and chili, uh, toss it all together, and then if you want to add carbs, bit of rice on the side. And that, I mean, I think gone are the days of, like we were saying, the chicken and broccoli brigade of boiled chicken, uh, and broccoli and plain rice. You can do so much more. I mean, essentially that would be chicken, broccoli, uh, salmon, broccoli and rice. But by making a simple teriyaki sauce and a bit of sesame oil on the, on the broccoli, you totally transform it.

    8. CWChris Williamson53:32

       Right. What else? What else have we got?

    9. CBChris Baber53:34

       Um, ooh, I'm trying to think. Is there anything you, you'd want to know how to make?

    10. CWChris Williamson53:37

        I want to know about steak. I want to be able to do a good-

    11. CBChris Baber53:39

        Yeah.

    12. CWChris Williamson53:39

        ... sort of steak of some kind.

    13. CBChris Baber53:41

        Perfect. So chimichurri steak is something I love to do. I do it quite often. So chimichurri sauce is sort of a s- an Argentinean sauce, and it is made with, uh, fresh herbs like parsley and coriander, and you use red wine vinegar, olive oil, the chopped herbs, and a bit of oregano, salt and pepper, and it's delicious and it's really zingy and fresh. 'Cause I think if you go to a restaurant, when w- when they open again, we don't... hopefully pretty soon, a lot of times steaks have like quite a creamy and rich sauce. But this is actually really fresh and vibrant. And for me, I would normally go, it depends how lean you want to go. So for anyone listening, fillet steak is the leanest, um, pretty much no fat in that whatsoever. Then you've got like rumps and sirloins and then a rib eye. They're pretty accessible steaks. Rib eye probably the fattiest of them all. What, what steak do you like, Chris? What would you order in a restaurant?

30. 54:34 – 1:07:52

    Steak

    1. CBChris Baber54:34

    2. CWChris Williamson54:34

       Uh, I would tend to order whatever the person sat next to me says I should order. That's-

    3. CBChris Baber54:39

       Okay.

    4. CWChris Williamson54:39

       I'm one of those. I'll be, "What are you..."

    5. CBChris Baber54:41

       Okay.

    6. CWChris Williamson54:41

       "... what are you getting?"

    7. CBChris Baber54:42

       Yeah. "What are you having?"

    8. CWChris Williamson54:43

       Maybe. "What are you... Yeah, looks good. Looks, looks good, that. How are you having medium?"

    9. CBChris Baber54:47

       Yeah. Yeah.

    10. CWChris Williamson54:47

        "Medium. Yeah, I'll have medium."

    11. CBChris Baber54:49

        Yeah. I'll have the steak.

    12. CWChris Williamson54:49

        Uh, I don't really know, man. I mean, what are the-

    13. CBChris Baber54:51

        Okay.

    14. CWChris Williamson54:51

        How would you break down the different tastes of steak? Can you give us-

    15. CBChris Baber54:54

        Yeah.

    16. CWChris Williamson54:55

        ... a, a brief sort of steak, steak class?

    17. CBChris Baber54:58

        Yeah. I mean, something like a filet steak, there's very li- this is the best way to think about steaks: fat is flavor. That re- fat is a carrier of flavor. That is why things like beef dripping tastes so good. Goose fat, it- fat is just ram f- there's more flavor in fat than flesh. So if you've got a fatty cut of steak, like a rib eye, it's going to taste more beefy than a filet steak, which doesn't have as much in it. So things like a fatty rib eye steak, that's where something like a chimichurri sauce, you need that acidity to cut through the fattiness that you're going to get in your mouth. Whereas like a filet steak, because there isn't any fat, that's why like a nice creamy sauce, like a mushroom sauce or a peppercorn goes well with it. But I think the easiest way to look at it is like filet being the leanest, rump steak probably one down, and then sirloin, and then rib eye. Rib eye definitely packs the most flavor, but then again, it's the fattiest one- one of them all. But I would say for me, rump steak or rib eye steak with a chimichurri sauce. Season the steak on each side, drizzle the steak with oil, not the pan. It stops it all splashing around. And you always want your steak to be at room temperature, and that goes with anything you're cooking protein-wise, because if you take a steak out of the fridge, if you think about it, the ins- that, that steak's going to be about three degrees all the way through. So if you put that steak in a, if it's quite a thick steak or whatever, and you pop it in a really hot griddle pan or frying pan, whatever, the outside of the steak is going to be caramelized, but the inside of the steak is going to take longer to come up to that temperature. So it's basically going to be blue and raw in the, like properly raw in the middle, but really caramelized on the outside. Whereas if that steak's at room temperature, the inside of the steak is already at about 18 degrees. So you get an even cook on it. The outside, by the time the outside is caramelized, the inside will be nice and sort of medium rare. And again, with like chicken and stuff, if you're frying a- ... a piece of chicken and it's freezing cold out, well, not freezing, but like really cold out the fridge, by the time the inside, the heat penetrates to the middle, the outside is going to be burnt. So always have your steak and your meat at room temperature when you cook it. So season the steak, salt and pepper, really hot pan. In the pan, don't... I never mess with it. Once it's in, I only ever turn it once. A normal sort of thickness of the steak, probably couple of minutes, flip it over and just make sure it's nice and caramelized on the bottom. And by, say, caramelized, I mean like that, sort of golden crispiness. That's something called the Maillard reaction, and it's the sugars caramelizing. Flip it over another couple of minutes. And then if you want to be really indulgent, when it's just about done, you can add butter into the pan and baste the steak in butter, and it will just soak up those buttery goodness flavors. Um, but I... To be honest, if you're doing a chimichurri sauce, I, I don't tend to put the butter in, but the chimichurri, just simply finely chopped coriander and parsley, some oregano, red wine vinegar, drizzle of olive oil, and that for me is just the perfect steak, steak supper.

    18. CWChris Williamson58:16

        What would you serve that with?

    19. CBChris Baber58:18

        Um, you could do... For me, I would think, what time of year am I eating? If it was the summer or, sorry, spring coming up, I'd probably do some asparagus. I'd go for, think about what's in season. I love broccoli with it, or like a lovely rocket salad, something like that. Sweet potato wedges, again, a bit of a healthier option. Um, but one of my favorite ways with the chimichurri steak is the ciabatta bread and just make like the ultimate steak sandwich and all of the flavor just drips into the ciabatta, and you've got that sort of herby spicy sauce. Unbelievable. And a top tip here. Anyone making a steak, always cut it against the grain when you cut it, because if you think about the grain of the meat, I'm trying to think of the best way to put this across. If you want ultimate tenderness, cutting against the grain means you're going to bite down on short fibers, so they're just going to sort of collapse in your mouth. Whereas if you go with the long way, you're going to have these big long stringy fibers that you're-

    20. CWChris Williamson59:14

        Ah!

    21. CBChris Baber59:14

        ... essentially chewing on.

    22. CWChris Williamson59:16

        Yeah. Of course.

    23. CBChris Baber59:17

        Yeah.

    24. CWChris Williamson59:17

        That makes so much sense.

    25. CBChris Baber59:18

        So, because if you think about like some spaghetti hanging upside down is the fibers, if you cut the long way with the spaghetti, you've got them long strands in your mouth and it's chewy, but if you cut against them, then the fibers are like the loads of little bits of spaghetti that way, and they just break straight down. So that can... You could cook the steak perfectly, but if you don't cut it against the grain, you could still be chewing on it.

    26. CWChris Williamson59:41

        You can make the best steak in the world, but knack it with your knife and fork once you sit down at the table.

    27. CBChris Baber59:45

        Yeah, literally. So always cut the steak against the grain.

    28. CWChris Williamson59:49

        Dude, I love that. That's, that's my... I think that might be my favorite hack to come out with today.

    29. CBChris Baber59:54

        Yeah.

    30. CWChris Williamson59:54

        Uh, any other bits? Any other sort of final thoughts or things-

Episode duration: 1:07:52