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Investigating The Incel Community - Naama Kates | Modern Wisdom Podcast 363

Naama Kates is a writer, producer and creator of the Incel Podcast. The world of involuntary celibates continues to be thrust into the public limelight with incidents in the United States and most recently in the UK with Jake Davison's shooting in Plymouth. Naama has spent years investigating incels so I figured she would be a good place to go to understand what's happening. Expect to learn whether the incel community is a terrorist organisation, why the incel culture can trap members inside of it, how the incels relate to the Mens Rights Movement, the problems associated with driving these communities underground and much more... Sponsors: Get 40% discount on everything from boohooMAN at https://bit.ly/manwisdom (use code MW40) Get 10% discount on your first month from BetterHelp at https://betterhelp.com/modernwisdom (discount automatically applied) Extra Stuff: Follow Naama on Twitter - https://twitter.com/naamakates Check out Naama's Incel Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/incel/id1469915971 Naama's Unherd article - https://unherd.com/2021/08/what-the-media-gets-wrong-about-incels/ Get my free Reading List of 100 books to read before you die → https://chriswillx.com/books/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom #naamakates #incel #jakedavison - 00:00 Intro 00:33 Researching Incels 04:54 Incels and the Men’s Rights Movement 11:22 Dynamics of Incel Communities 21:50 Breaking Out of Inceldom 27:27 Why Modern Woke Culture Doesn’t Care 32:33 Are Incels Pro-Monogamy? 38:13 Do the Communities Evolve or Change? 42:05 The Jake Davison Shooting 49:47 Incels & White Supremacy 55:15 The Struggle to Support Incels 1:05:35 Pacifying Effect of a Mate 1:09:25 What’s Next for Incels? - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/

Naama KatesguestChris Williamsonhost
Aug 25, 20211h 12mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Inside Incels: Loneliness, Online Echo Chambers, and Misunderstood Extremes

  1. Chris Williamson interviews Naama Kates, host of the 'Incel' podcast, about the incel community—men who see themselves as involuntarily celibate and often gather in online spaces. They unpack the spectrum of what 'incel' means, how these communities formed alongside the broader 'manosphere,' and why they’re so attractive to lonely, socially isolated young men. Kates explains core beliefs around looks, status, and women, the blackpill worldview, and how forum dynamics can both validate suffering and deepen resentment. They also critique media narratives linking incels to terrorism and white supremacy, and discuss how stigmatization and censorship may be making the problem worse rather than solving it.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Incel identity exists on a spectrum, not as a single category.

Kates distinguishes between anyone in a sexual drought, self-aware incels who don’t join communities, and those whose primary identity is tied to participating in incel forums; conflating these groups distorts both research and policy.

Loneliness, mental health issues, and neurodivergence are central risk factors.

Incels disproportionately report depression, anxiety, social isolation, bullying, and a very high rate of autism diagnoses (~20%), suggesting that social skills deficits and chronic isolation are core drivers of incel involvement.

Online incel spaces offer belonging but can entrench hopelessness and resentment.

Forums provide a place to share ‘Ls’ and shameful feelings, but also normalize nihilistic beliefs, celebrate failure, ban ‘bragging,’ and often punish members who show signs of improvement—making it harder to leave the mindset.

The blackpill worldview radically overweights looks and downplays agency.

Incels tend to rank 'looks, money, status' in that order for male attractiveness, obsess over evolutionary-psych data and Tinder stats, and use concepts like halo effect and 'looksmaxxing' to rationalize why they believe change is largely impossible.

Stigmatizing and censoring incel communities may increase risk, not reduce it.

Platform bans push groups to harder-to-monitor spaces, strengthen persecution narratives, remove moderating outside perspectives, and can incentivize more extreme ‘edgelord’ behavior for attention and notoriety.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

Overwhelmingly, a lot of them are just lonely... and a lot of them just aren't happy.

Naama Kates

Something like 20% are on the autism spectrum, which is a really, really high percentage.

Naama Kates

Misery and failure are almost celebrated in these forums, and ascending and making more of yourself is sometimes talked down to.

Chris Williamson (paraphrasing Kates’ earlier points)

You can’t silence and shame and shut these things out of existence.

Naama Kates

This will always be a part of our society… someone who feels they have no place in it and are not desired.

Naama Kates

Definitions and layers of incel identity (from dry spells to full community involvement)Origins of the manosphere: PUAs, 4chan culture, Elliot Rodger, and PUAHatePsychological and demographic profile of incels (loneliness, autism, mental health, NEET status)Core beliefs about women, attractiveness, hypergamy, and the blackpill worldviewForum culture: commiseration, ranking, looksmaxxing, and policing of 'hope' or successMedia treatment of incels, terrorism labels, and links to white supremacyPolicy and social responses: censorship, stigmatization, and the need for empathetic intervention

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