Kelly Starrett | Getting Better At The Game Of Life | Modern Wisdom Podcast 119

1. 0:00 – 1:19

   “Pegan” diet, fruit paranoia, and the 800g/day baseline

   1. KSKelly Starrett0:00

      We were in New York, and we saw this thing called the Pegan diet. It was, uh, being advertised.

   2. CWChris Williamson0:04

      The what? Pegan diet?

   3. KSKelly Starrett0:05

      Pegan. Pegan.

   4. CWChris Williamson0:06

      Okay.

   5. KSKelly Starrett0:06

      Paleo plus vegan. Plant-based diet with small amounts of animal protein. And we were like, "You mean food?" You know?

   6. CWChris Williamson0:15

      (laughs)

   7. KSKelly Starrett0:15

      So one of my friends is a, a woman named E. C. Cienkowski and her ... she's optimized me nutrition. And she has this notion, first things first, let's improve the caloric density of your diet by getting you to eat 800 grams of vegetables and fruits a day. 800 grams, just hit that mark.

   8. CWChris Williamson0:32

      Me. (laughs) So ... (laughs)

   9. KSKelly Starrett0:34

      So that's how far away ... We're having a conversation about is this movie about being plant-based good or bad? I'm like, "Hey, I eat meat and eggs and cheese and all these other things, but I also get 800 grams of vegetables and fruits or a kilo of vegetables and fruits a day. That's my base."

   10. CWChris Williamson0:52

       Are you able to stick to around that?

   11. KSKelly Starrett0:53

       Piece of cake. I eat salad for breakfast. I eat ... a palmful of blueberries is 80 grams. So what you're seeing is, oh, you know, we, we villainize fruit, right?

   12. CWChris Williamson1:03

       Yeah.

   13. KSKelly Starrett1:03

       And I'm like, "Seriously? You think an app- like, eating two apples is really the limiting factor to your performance today?"

   14. CWChris Williamson1:09

       (laughs)

   15. KSKelly Starrett1:09

       "What are you gonna eat instead? You know, like a protein shake? A highly processed impossible burger?"

2. 1:19 – 2:11

   Reframing health as an open-ended game: the philosophy behind The Ready State

   1. CWChris Williamson1:19

      I am joined by the supple leopard himself, Mr. Kelly Starrett. Kelly, welcome to the show.

   2. KSKelly Starrett1:25

      It is a pleasure to be, be back on the, uh, I don't know. I, I don't know if I can say it's the better side of the, uh, of the, the ocean, but I do have an affinity for the UK.

   3. CWChris Williamson1:35

      Yeah, man. Well, you're with me now. You, you're adopted for the next hour. We're gonna be talking about whatever we talk about. You can be British for a little while. Get a cup of tea out.

   4. KSKelly Starrett1:43

      Uh, well, I really ... what I'm gonna need is a cup from the Borough Market and then also a sausage roll. So if you can make that happen, I'm in.

   5. CWChris Williamson1:50

      That's like knowledge ... but that's you dropping your peak UK knowledge bombs, isn't it?

   6. KSKelly Starrett1:55

      (laughs)

   7. CWChris Williamson1:55

      It's like, what's the most quintessentially British thing that I can think of? It's a cup of tea and a sausage roll.

   8. KSKelly Starrett2:00

      That's right. That's right, that's right.

   9. CWChris Williamson2:01

      (laughs) So how are you, man? It's awesome to see you again. I, I, I, um, follow your stuff. I'm sure a lot of people that are listening will be as well. You guys have been super busy recently.

3. 2:11 – 5:24

   From MobilityWOD to The Ready State: rebrand and what actually changed

   1. KSKelly Starrett2:11

      You know, here's the deal. Um, we try to treat our thinking about human beings and our lives as a game you cannot win. All you can do is sort of play better and better and better. And to that end, if you, if you treat your fitness, your wellness, your health like a game with clear and clear, clear winners and losers, you know what all the rules are, you're a fool. I mean, that's, that's same in business, the same in raising kids. You know, these are open-ended tasks, and we have always reserved the right to get better and refine our thinking and to, and to think differently and critically about the needs of the people we serve. And to that end, you know, we just applied that same amount of thinking to, uh, to our business, and what we, we had is 10 years of experience helping people improve pain, helping people take a crack at moving more efficiently and more effectively on the things that they love, and really trying to get the physio and the doctor out of the conversation, because, you know, frankly so much of this, of what we're working on is, is disruptive in the way that, hey, this is a part of the language of being a human being, the same way that, like, you don't have to talk to a nutritionist when you have lunch, right? You don't have to talk to your doctor, you know, before you go to bed. I mean, it's crazy that there ... we have divorced musculoskeletal health and care and understanding, you know, from our environmental lifestyle selves and now we're trying to fix that. So what we, what we realize is that people are a lot more clever than we have originally given them credit for, and I mean, we've always assumed that people are more clever, but I don't think that, that our traditional industries have necessarily. And, uh, to that end, you know, we, we went ahead and, um, rebranded and changed our, the user experience and user interface, and we went from MobilityWOD, which was really confusing for people. Mobility now means nothing and WOD is a, you know, is a technical term, uh, that has been sort of co-opted by lots of companies like SobrietyWOD and FaithWOD and MentalityWOD. And then, um, we really felt like what we were doing was trying to help people in the context of their lives get as ready as they could for whatever they want to get ready for, and I've been talking about this notion of this Ready State, which is sort of saying, "You can't live in a ... you're not a monk. You have family obligations and private, previous history of injuries, and maybe you played a sport, and maybe you have a job that forces you to stay awake sometimes at odd hours. So how can, how ready can we get you and what can we control?" Which is really a different idea around, hey, I've got a, I have a box of 100 things, and if I don't check off my list of 100 things, I'm somehow a failure and I haven't bio-hacked or optimized. And instead we're saying this, "Hey, look. Let's play a more beautiful game." And that was really the, the birth of the Ready State.

   2. CWChris Williamson4:56

      That's awesome. I mean, a lot of people will be familiar with MobilityWOD. I think you're right. The opportunity for you to expand out from a term which is, uh, obvious, but perhaps a little constrictive in that mobility just focuses on that to the Ready State, which is something that seems a little bit more holistic. So what's ... how would you define the difference between what you were doing before and what you're doing now with regards to what you provide?

4. 5:24 – 9:50

   What mobility work is really for: positions, movement skill, and tissue constraints

   1. KSKelly Starrett5:24

      Well, you know, I think people forget that when we started this project, you know, 10 years ago, you know, the iPhone didn't have a video camera. So, you know, YouTube was a nascent, emergent thing. And, you know, uh, we were on Blogger was the original platform and, uh, you know, we didn't set out to make a library that look- ended up looking and feeling like the, like the Al- Library of Alexandria with 4,000 videos in it.

   2. CWChris Williamson5:49

      Mm-hmm.

   3. KSKelly Starrett5:49

      We set out to raise the bar and give people the tools to be able to take a crack at fixing themselves and making themselves feel better and improving their movement efficiency. And one of the things that, um, I think is in there it's, it's confusing for people is mobilizing ...... is a tool to restore your position. And, uh, for example, one of the reasons I don't think stretching ever really took off, I mean, we've- we've been known to stretch your whole life. I mean, your, your, your football coach made you stretch, et cetera, et cetera, right? But athletes don't do things that don't work. And when an athlete perceives poor value or poor return on value, they drop it out. And I ... we saw that. And of course, stretching can be a large and nebulous term, but what we saw was, you know, we, we came out, I'm a physio, but I'm a coach first. And if you ask me, sit me down on an airplane, I'm gonna say I'm a coach. And then I'm like, uh, I'm also a physio.

   4. CWChris Williamson6:40

      (clears throat)

   5. KSKelly Starrett6:41

      And in ... to that end, you know, part of the magic of what we're trying to do here is always to say, "Hey, look, it's movement first." And our movement cues come from the language of gymnastics and powerlifting and Olympic lifting and body weight control.

   6. CWChris Williamson6:54

      (clears throat)

   7. KSKelly Starrett6:54

      And there's a lot of cuing and understanding around sport that these coaches have discovered, what is the best expression of human physiology? What are the shapes that are the most powerful? What are the positions and skills and cues that give us the most robust and most stable person? And underlying that, then-

   8. CWChris Williamson7:12

      (coughs)

   9. KSKelly Starrett7:13

      ... is that mobilizations really end up, for us, becoming position transfer exercises. If you can't put your arm over your head, that's a problem. And no matter, no matter, like, how much, you know-

   10. CWChris Williamson7:23

       (clears throat)

   11. KSKelly Starrett7:23

       ... compensation you do or magical thing you do, if it's a tissue restriction, that's a tissue restriction. And people get stiff. That's okay. So what are the tools to restore that? So that's the piece. But the first half of, you know, two-thirds of Supple Leopard is really about how to move and move more efficiently, and then tying these movement principles into the foundations of strength and conditioning. And when we begin to layer on, additionally, the fact that, you know, the gym is the greatest place on Earth to be, to work on your weaknesses, to work on painful positions, to talk about nutrition and s- sleep and stress, to be a member of a tribe and community, to be seen. We have all the aspects of the biopsychosocial model, which people have been saying, "Oh, we've got to look at it's not just your knee, it's how you exist in society." And I'm like, "Well, no, crap."

   12. CWChris Williamson8:09

       (laughs)

   13. KSKelly Starrett8:09

       What do you think we do at the gym? We ... If you show up and you're a hot mess 'cause you haven't slept and you have a newborn and you're super stressed, that's immediate to us, and that's part of this language of conversation. When someone's injured, we keep them engaged in our community. We don't cut them out of their tribe. Like, we keep them as part of their community and, and, and so that they feel safe, they feel secure, that they're, they're still a member of a, of a group, and we still exercise, and we talk about nutrition. So, what's really happening is that, you know, it's easy for people to say, even in the term mobility, people think, "Oh, if I'm squatting, th- I'm working my mobility." I'm like, "No, you're just squatting," right? Ultimately, what we're saying is, do you have full access to your physiology as a human being, yes or no? And then what are your tools to maintain that and then optimize that? And we're gonna have to talk about your tissue quality-

   14. CWChris Williamson8:59

       (clears throat)

   15. KSKelly Starrett8:59

       ... and we're gonna have to talk about all the other things that matter to you in the context of your life. Guess what? That's called strength and conditioning. That's called getting my 14-year-old team of swimmers ready to compete, right? Homework, stress, boys. It doesn't matter what the, what the, the demands are. Ultimately, we're, we're trying to recognize that human beings are existing in these lives, and the things that we sort of presented on Instagram is n- is a false reality of what's possible and the way we should be living. So, what are the minimum effective doses? And more importantly, how do I get people to be able to feel, uh, when they're out of position or they need to change or if something hurts so they actually have a plan? Because people have gotten very sophisticated about their eating, they're very sophisticated about their training, but they're not sophisticated about recognizing that bringing your knee to your chest is the root component of squatting or kettlebell swings.

5. 9:50 – 11:10

   The gym as biopsychosocial medicine: tribe, identity, and staying engaged through injury

   1. CWChris Williamson9:50

      Yeah, it's interesting you talk about the biopsychosocial model when it r- comes to a gym. I recently did a podcast with Douglas Murray, who wrote The Madness of Crowds. And in that, he identifies the fact that we've had this loss of grand narrative, as he calls it.

   2. KSKelly Starrett10:04

      (cheering) (clapping)

   3. CWChris Williamson10:04

      The fact that the modern, the modern era might be the first generation of people who have no reason or no idea why they're on this planet. We've had a drop away with regards to religion. The typical, uh, community that you would have had locally has now been opened up because people can make connections online. We no longer have, uh, s- such quite typical jobs for life anymore, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

   4. KSKelly Starrett10:28

      (clapping) (cheering)

   5. CWChris Williamson10:28

      And I often think about myself, the fact that I enjoy training so much. I've enjoyed exercising since I was a kid, and I feel so fortunate that that is a, a pathway and a mechanism which is inside of me. Because if I didn't have that, if I wasn't able to go to the gym and I didn't have the support structure of the people who are at the gym-

   6. KSKelly Starrett10:47

      (shoes squeaking on floor)

   7. CWChris Williamson10:47

      ... and, uh, people who are like me, they have similar interests to me, they want to make themselves better, all that sort of stuff.

   8. KSKelly Starrett10:54

      (clapping) (cheering)

   9. CWChris Williamson10:54

      If it wasn't for that, I'd, I'd b- I'd be half the human that I think I am. That outlet, that support structure, everything is more than just the movements that you're doing in the gym. It's everything else. And I think that really helps to compensate for what we might be seeing with this loss of grand narrative.

6. 11:10 – 14:03

   Creating tight feedback loops: coaching culture, recognition, and safety to fail

   1. KSKelly Starrett11:10

      You know, we try to remind people. So for example, you know, we have, um, um, looking at a coach who's been coaching here for 12 or 13 years. Um, we've grown up together. You know, we ... if we're in a class together, I take her class, she takes my class, we still shake hands like it's the first time. And part of that is being seen. Part of that is saying, "I, hey, I see you and I appreciate that we're here together," and that acknowledgement. So we shake hands every single time, even in people that I've been training for over a decade, coaching for over a decade, right, who've been coaching me. We still pretend like it's the first time. It's also maybe the only time where people are getting any unconditional positive regard, you know, and why I think training in a group is so important. And while the gym, the traditional gym is, is ... Look, I don't care what your reason is for your health and, and training and aesthetic- whatever, but that gym is isolating and lonely. And the, the short story is that human beings are what's most important. And when we spend more time with other human beings in a way where we're supporting and coaching ... For example, one of the things that sometimes I've heard in the past is that coaches ...... don't like athletes to self-coach. You know, they don't like to coa- And I'm like, "That's nonsense." The co- the idea is to be able to have people be so confident that they can have these really tight feedback loops and mechanisms within the c- in the structure of the group training environment. So, it's not one coach shouting. It's coaches and athletes having these small conversations and self-correcting and making modifications and, and being, being party to a greater conversation. You know, we say, uh, we always get back together. We a- I always point out a star baker in the class, which is actually the truth. Like, I'm like, "You're the star baker." You know, the Great British Baking-

   2. CWChris Williamson12:50

      What's that? What does that mean?

   3. KSKelly Starrett12:51

      The Great British Baking Show, you don't know that show?

   4. CWChris Williamson12:53

      The Star Baker?

   5. KSKelly Starrett12:54

      Yeah, th- from The Great British Baking Show.

   6. CWChris Williamson12:56

      I mean, so what? Are people bringing in cupcakes or is that the performance of the day, or?

   7. KSKelly Starrett12:59

      No. That's, that's, that's the person who I thought was just moved the best or-

   8. CWChris Williamson13:02

      Got you, got you, got you.

   9. KSKelly Starrett13:02

      ... you know, showed up, right? And so, we have this, uh, we have this notion where we also look each other in the eye and we're like, "Good job." And someone, someone has recognized your effort. And we try to build these feedback loops, which are, you know, cognitive social feedback loops are just as important as making gains on your squat, right? What we want people to recognize is that this has to be the only place where you can completely fall on your face. The gym is the only place where you can show up trashed and say, "I'm here," and you're gonna be safe. You can expose your weakness. You can expose your old injury. You know, your ability to generate force, breathe hard, even your range of motion is a moving target. If you don't believe me, let's go take a red eye and we'll fly across the country, you know, or fly across the ocean, and we'll measure you the next day and see how you do. And you're gonna see that you're, you're, you're crap, and that's okay. And so, what we want people to recognize is that the training stimulus is also the diagnostic tool. How am I feeling? What's going on? How does this fit into the

7. 14:03 – 16:21

   Who owns pain? Coaches, red flags, and when to escalate to medicine

   1. KSKelly Starrett14:03

      context? And I, if ... I'm a Maitland-trained physiotherapist, which is an Australian model of manual therapy and thinking about a systems approach to the body. But the original Maitland model was I would see someone for an injury three to five times a week. Can you imagine that?

   2. CWChris Williamson14:18

      Wow.

   3. KSKelly Starrett14:18

      Seeing a physio five times a week? Imagine ... In fact, our, the follow-up questioning is like, "Well, how, how did you feel after the first hour after I saw you? How did you feel after the, the first 12 hours? And then how did you feel first thing in the morning?" Because I'm seeing you the next day and those feedback mechanisms are really tight, and then my treatment would be predicated on the next thing.

   4. CWChris Williamson14:35

      Mm-hmm.

   5. KSKelly Starrett14:36

      Who, what medical professional do you see five times a week?

   6. CWChris Williamson14:40

      (laughs)

   7. KSKelly Starrett14:40

      You don't.

   8. CWChris Williamson14:41

      You have to have something very wrong with you to be seeing-

   9. KSKelly Starrett14:43

      Yeah, you're, you're in-

   10. CWChris Williamson14:44

       ... a medical professional five times a week.

   11. KSKelly Starrett14:45

       You're in hospital, right. That's right.

   12. CWChris Williamson14:46

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   13. KSKelly Starrett14:46

       And, uh, and we're having a (laughs) different conversation. But you might see your coach or your training partner three to five times a week, right? So, we have to reconceptualize who's in charge, who owns pain, you know. How do we recognize that, hey, this pain is a normal experience of being a human being, it doesn't mean I'm injured. But also, night sweats, dizziness, fever, vomiting, nausea, unaccountable weight loss, weight gain, change in bow- or bowel function, common problem with cough, sneeze, or swallow, those are red flags. And everyone in our gym can smell out that, "Hey, I don't think you're just sore. You've got something going on. You've got a fever and there's some disease. Let's go get, talk to a medical professional." Also, if you can't occupy your role in society, you can't do your job, can't play your role on this team, or there's a bone sticking out of your leg, or you've got, you know, rabies of the knees, you are injured and you need to get out of here. And the rest of it, though, our coaches own it. Our, our staff owns it. Our athletes own it, right? That it's a normal experience to come in with a patina of injury, with, uh, with the fact that you're stiff or you, you, you know, you came out of a, a, a bad soccer match when you were 14, and you, that ankle gets stiff sometimes, or you've just overdone it 'cause you're a meathead and you're, you know, and you, and sh- and she loves to do back-to-back triathlons, that's totally fine. But in this place, we actually have the well-won safe place. And to your point, it may be the only way that I'm not on, in jail, I'm not on drugs, because I figured out that I could self-medicate with exercise, and I've found a community of people that said, "I'll be there for you no matter what." That's a, that's, that's the new church.

8. 16:21 – 19:56

   The ‘fitness menopause’: leaving aesthetics-only training for performance and connection

   1. CWChris Williamson16:21

      I think it is. I think it is. And I feel very sorry for people who do not have that natural pull towards exercise. Uh, to your point about the gym on its own, this is something I've mentioned about before, but some of the listeners, it was a long time ago I first brought this up, and I, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on it as well. So, I came up with something, when I was probably around about 26, 27, and I called it the fitness menopause. And what it felt like to me was a change in my body, what my body was there to do. And it ma- meant that I'd spent eight years training purely for aesthetics. All I was bothered about was going into the gym, steeping in my own neuroses as I had the head, the headphones in, I'm looking in the mirror, talking to myself, despite being in a gym surrounded by people, not talking to any of those people except for, "Mate, have you finished on that bench yet? Can I take your plates?" Blah, blah. Um, and then, very quickly, I think 'cause I was like, uh, 27, 28, and as you begin to approach 30, you become chronically aware of your own mortality. You're also a little bit less bothered about maybe purely training for aesthetics. So, I decided to make the change. I switched across to CrossFit, um, and as a byproduct of that, bizarrely, my condition got better. I actually ended up in better condition than I'd been before because I was enjoying my training, but my body's, um, makeup, my body composition was no longer the purpose for my training. I'd externalized that to my performance. And so many people, so many of my friends now, I'm seeing that have been like, um, maybe little Instagram stars or whatever of the UK bro lifters, and they get to 27, 28, twen- ... I'm thinking, I'm watching my watch going, "It's fucking coming. It's coming for..." And then sure enough, bang. They start doing, uh, park runs, 5Ks on a morning, on a Sunday morning. Every single Sunday, they're doing that. Darren, who's one of my buddies, is doing that. Another one of the guys will start doing some swimming. A lot of guys I'm doing are now doing open water swimming 'cause they've found some pull through that as well. And it's so interesting that you have this move away from what is essentially bolstering perhaps a lack of self-confidence, or obviously it is exercise. But what that made me reflect on was so many people, especially young guys particularly, they take a route to bodybuilding as their first port of call because the barriers to entry are so low.... that people spend their entire lives doing the snatch and a clean and jerk. That's it, whole, whole athletic career. Take me into a gym, I can do a probably a moderately competent bicep curl within about two minutes. Like, it's so simple, right? And I just, I, you know, that was something that I'd thought of a long time ago, and I, I really do applaud CrossFit and these more public weightlifting gyms that are now coming across to the UK as well, for creating a community that forces people to talk. If you're doing a partner workout, you have to talk to the person that's with you. No one trains in a CrossFit gym with their headphones in. Everyone's talking, you know?

   2. KSKelly Starrett19:00

      No, you know what? You know what? It's important to recognize how ... that that is not a sustainable model, right? That go and put your headphones in, put your head down, taking selfies.

   3. CWChris Williamson19:13

      (laughs)

   4. KSKelly Starrett19:14

      It works for a minute, but also it's, you inherit the system and what you're seeing is that people are products of an environment, the products of a system.

   5. CWChris Williamson19:21

      Mm-hmm.

   6. KSKelly Starrett19:22

      And, and it takes a minute to, to raise your consciousness and, and people come to that consciousness at different phases, right? So here's an example. My daughter Georgia is 14. Um, she plays varsity water polo. She, you know, has grown up ... and, and if you've ever watched a video, Georgia's in the videos, right? And she doesn't have school on Friday and she said is, "Hey, can we go into the gym with my mates? I'd like to go jump into a class." So I've been waiting for 14 years-

   7. CWChris Williamson19:49

      (laughs)

   8. KSKelly Starrett19:49

      ... for her to say that.

   9. CWChris Williamson19:52

      (laughs)

   10. KSKelly Starrett19:52

       And, uh, you, it takes a minute to plant the seed.

   11. CWChris Williamson19:56

       Yeah.

9. 19:56 – 26:06

   How training culture evolved: early CrossFit, sophistication, and the longevity horizon

   1. KSKelly Starrett19:56

      It takes a minute to look around and say, "Hey, is there a better way?" And this model of training on the internet, it's, it's nascent, it's, it's developing, it's, it's less than 15 years old. And the notion of sort of sharing kettlebells is very Russian. And if you came out of a track and field tradition, if you came out of, you know, a kettlebellisto or a kettlebell tradition or an Olympic lifting tradition, you had training partners and engaged in a training hall in a training environment. And that was because you just lucked into a community that already engaged in and valued these things. This is how we get together, how we train. You know, in, um, in the United States, I think we have a complicated relationship with American football, right? And one of the reasons it's complicated is we recognize that it's, it's dangerous and it's potentially splits our socio- on a, socioeconomic lines. But the reason I have come to believe that it still exists is it's the only time that young men in America were ever on a team, ever. Where they were ever ... you know, it didn't matter what your size was, there was a role for you. It didn't matter what your capacity was, there was a role for you. And even if you were a backup and you just supported the team through a scout offense, scout defense, you would s- you're still such a valuable member of the team and it's painful and you hurt together. And that, th- those things are one of the reasons that this small group training or being in a running club or swimming group really, really matters. And again, you know, to your point, hopefully we'll all see that there is a better way and, and the world has changed. We try to remind people that when we started this thing, th- this November is our official 14th year of being a gym. 14 years. And we started a, a year before that, so you know, we've been doing this for a minute. And um-

   2. CWChris Williamson21:39

      Have you managed to, uh, have you managed to hold on to your same, uh, uh, affiliation from the very start? Are you still paying-

   3. KSKelly Starrett21:45

      Oh, yeah.

   4. CWChris Williamson21:46

      ... like, $300 a year or whatever it was, or like two- $20 a year?

   5. KSKelly Starrett21:50

      It's, it's 500.

   6. CWChris Williamson21:51

      $500 a year. Well, that's five-

   7. KSKelly Starrett21:52

      All right.

   8. CWChris Williamson21:52

      That's probably about like 3,500 less than most gyms-

   9. KSKelly Starrett21:55

      (laughs)

   10. CWChris Williamson21:55

       ... that are opening now.

   11. KSKelly Starrett21:56

       You know, and, um, you know, we, we took ... you know, we're, we're now officially the 21st CrossFit in the world and I'll tell you-

   12. CWChris Williamson22:04

       Oh, boy.

   13. KSKelly Starrett22:04

       ... the style of training that we do, its core values remain the same as it was 15 years ago. The difference is, we are so much more sophisticated. Why? Because we've all evolved. 'Cause we now are hanging out with way more Olympic lifters and Olympic athletes and exposing ... so the, the training, but the, it's core value is that we show up, we, we train together, we play together, we compete together, right? We expose faults, everyone is down. One of the things that I, for example, I try to do with a lot of coaches is I ... this is my mother-in-law.

   14. CWChris Williamson22:35

       Hi, Mother-in-Law.

   15. KSKelly Starrett22:36

       Joanne, you want to say hi? There she is.

   16. CWChris Williamson22:38

       Hi. Hey.

   17. KSKelly Starrett22:40

       Right? 72?

   18. CWChris Williamson22:42

       75 in March.

   19. KSKelly Starrett22:44

       Oh, 75 in March.

   20. CWChris Williamson22:45

       (laughs) Yes.

   21. KSKelly Starrett22:47

       At, at my gym, swinging kettlebells and, uh-

   22. CWChris Williamson22:50

       Getting after it.

   23. KSKelly Starrett22:51

       ... kicking ass. So, that's right.

   24. CWChris Williamson22:52

       I love it.

   25. KSKelly Starrett22:52

       So, you know, the, the short story is we're getting better and better at tweaking, refining training, but I try to remind people, "Hey, look, you couldn't buy a kettlebell in San Francisco 15 years ago." We had to drive down to Santa Cruz. We had to drive two or three hours to buy kettlebells in the en- the entire city. You know, um, Diane Fu, who's an incredible Olympic lifting coach, um, she and I used to drive to South San Francisco to train with the only Olympic lifting coach in the city named Jim Schmitz. You know, and, uh, we were in this basement and you couldn't buy Olympic lifting ... she was like, "The world has changed." Um, you know, uh, I'm sitting here, I'm looking at one of my staff and ... who was an All-American hammer thrower in track and field. And he grew up snatching. He grew up overhead squatting. We did not, and we all came to that late. And 15 years ago, I'm like, you know, people are like, "Overhead squats," and I'm like, "Well, what? Were you overhead squatting 10 years ago? Oh, you weren't. You were doing cable crossovers."

   26. CWChris Williamson23:44

       Yeah. (laughs)

   27. KSKelly Starrett23:44

       And you were doing what, you know, what Muscle and Fitness told you to do to get bulky. And now, it's okay for us to say we're a little bit better.

   28. CWChris Williamson23:51

       Mm-hmm.

   29. KSKelly Starrett23:51

       But the, but the core value is, hey, human performance, high performance, has told us these are the best ways to eat and fuel, here's the best ways to downregulate and recover, here's the best ways to feel connected to other human beings, here's the best ways to warm up, here's the best ways to look at your minimums. And I'll be honest, I really feel like physiotherapy is chasing, and even medical physicians, chasing what strength and conditioning now has become, which is a really complete physical practice, and a place to, to, to remedy the holes in people's lives by making them, giving them a, uh, a member of the tribe. And then also developing practices which are super sustainable. I mean, no one in here is ever too skilled a squatter.... you know, as you get older, you care a little bit less. I mean, I just PR'd my deadlift not very long ago-

   30. CWChris Williamson24:41

       Congratulations.
10. 26:06 – 40:49

    Updating the OS: breathing, BFR, pain reconceptualization, and scalable public health models

    1. CWChris Williamson26:06

       Yeah, so I did a, a podcast with, uh, Dr. David Sinclair from Harvard Medical School, and, uh, I asked him the question, "Do you think humans will ever live to 1,000 years?" And he said, "Yeah, eventually we're gonna get there," which was a, an interesting answer. I mean, if you PR on your deadlift at 1,000 years old, that would be interesting. But, um, so yeah, I, I totally get it, man. It is, um ... I wonder how many people that, that really need to start having a passion, um, with regards to fitness and training have been brought into a gym like yours, and have found, have found a passion that they never really thought that they had before with this, this community that they've got going on. And one of the things that strikes me, I've spoken to Dr. Quinn Henoch from JuggerNaught Training Systems, I've spoken to mutual friend of ours, Dr. Stu McGill, spoken to Brian Carroll, um, you know, only last week had the guys from StrongFirst on as well, and everyone is constantly updating that OS. Everybody. All the time, they're always learning new things and integrating them and stuff like that. So over the last 10 years or so, actually how long's Supple Leopard been out? Is it seven years, something like that? Six years?

    2. KSKelly Starrett27:13

       Yeah.

    3. CWChris Williamson27:13

       Cool. So since that's come out, what would you say are some of the headline, uh, changes or new pieces of information or new, um, philosophies that you've found with regards to either training or mobility, new information you've come across? Anything come to mind?

    4. KSKelly Starrett27:31

       Well, you know, I think what we got, uh, a lot right up front. And that was because that wasn't not based on thousands and thousands and thousands of hours of experience in grad school and lifetime being an athlete and all the coaches and McGill and ... You know, I had Stuart McGill's book in the loo when I was a physio student, and I read it cover to cover 20 times.

    5. CWChris Williamson27:53

       He's a, he's the real deal, man. He is the real deal.

    6. KSKelly Starrett27:55

       And, you know, and so, you know, I think one of the things that we've realized is, hey, we need to package this so it's easier for people. We, um, we need to make sure that they're not missing components. We've been talking about breathing forever. It's in the first notes that I ever put out, and of course I started teaching in 2008. But realized that there was even more low-hanging fruit around how we could use the breath to de reg- down regulate or use the breath to find the limits of the range at the fullest breath and at the smallest breath. We can use breathing to as- assess our ability to get into good positions, and even pressurize for maximal lifts. So I think what we've done is realized that, you know, hey, there are some things that are less effective. There's some mobilizations we don't do a lot of because we just don't need 'em, right? They have- they haven't solved a lot of problems for us. And there are things that we found to be a lot more effective, and so what, you know, over time, you know, you s- you strip away what isn't essential. And we're, we've continued to do that. So, you know, BFR, blood flow restriction occlusion training was not really a thing 10 years ago. Of course it was. KAATSU's been around forever. You know, um, but realizing what a powerful tool it was, um, the tools of being able to desensitize and how we've thought about who's responsible for pain. You know, that's a big, big deal. You know, how do I, you know, have a, uh, a gym full of 400 people be able to make themselves feel better? You know, and giving those tools so then they can take those back to, uh, moms and dads, they can take the, the kids, they can take ... You know, they, they become the, the combat medic. And, um, you know, in a safe, in a safe and responsible way, but what we- we've done is we really reconceptualized sort of the role of the physio, and the medical professional, and the role of the coach and the athlete and the person. And what we're seeing is that they do overlap, of course, but there's a lot more from the coach person side who, uh, they're just capable. And the world has changed. So, you know, you can, people are cooking their meat on the bone and eating collagen again, and you know, and, you know, the world, you know, we're seeing people actually move away, believe it or not, from protein shakes and protein bars to back to this thing called food. It turns out (both laugh)

    7. CWChris Williamson30:03

       Who'd have thought it?

    8. KSKelly Starrett30:04

       It's better for you. So-

    9. CWChris Williamson30:06

       I know.

    10. KSKelly Starrett30:06

        So some of it is that we're all engaged in a grand experiment, and the greatest thing that's happened is this fundamental notion amongst the masters like McGill, um, is test, retest, and share. Um, you'll see that the, the brightest minds on the planet never throw shade. Um, they don't attack people's techniques. They, they're like, hey, what, what problem are they trying to solve? Is that a better tool than the current tools that I have? And what's nice about that is you stop, you know, this is my, my dance space, this is my heart, kung fu heart style, and what we, we get about the, the, you know, the business of solving problems, and it's okay to have different, different tools and tactics. That's okay to disagree on that. But, um, you know, you need to s- you need to start showing your work. Like, for example, right now-

    11. CWChris Williamson30:51

        Yeah.

    12. KSKelly Starrett30:51

        Um, there's this team ... There's a little World Series going on, and I currently work with only two teams in professional baseball. One of them is the Nationals and the other one is the Astros, and they're both playing each other. Right? And I'm not saying-

    13. CWChris Williamson31:04

        Mm-hmm.

    14. KSKelly Starrett31:04

        ... I have any part to do with that-

    15. CWChris Williamson31:05

        (laughs)

    16. KSKelly Starrett31:05

        ... but it's pretty fun that I get to test my principles-

    17. CWChris Williamson31:09

        Yeah.

    18. KSKelly Starrett31:09

        ... at the highest levels of baseball. Nick Gill is the head strength and conditioning coach for the All Blacks. They're doing pretty well in the World Cup right now. They've been using our stuff in ready state for a long time. Right? Nick's a good mate of mine. Do I have anything to do with their success? No. But I get to test my theories and principles against them and see if I can support them and make them more efficient. So, at some point, I need to see your Olympic medals, I need to see your associations, I need to see what groups you're in, I need to see how you think of public health. I need to see that you... One-on-one is great, but that I'm interested now in this notion of social justice, and do your, do your models and, and ideas scale. Because if we can't begin to walk this back to high school, and walk it back to middle school, and walk it back to elementary school, then we're just perpetuating the same old bullshit that we've done where people show up poorly prepared, down-regulated, eating like crap, on the internet, not, not in a physical culture, d- not tied to a group of people, and then we start backing out of that, and that's a much more difficult conversation. So, you know, this has gotta be about, uh, public health. This has gotta be about, you know, this is gonna sound totally cheesy, the original vow of the Bodhisattva is like, dude, if you're a coach, you're working to make sure that all people are better movers, better athletes, better people. That's the central tenet of a coach.

    19. CWChris Williamson32:29

        It sounds like-

    20. KSKelly Starrett32:30

        And I, and I, and I will say that the best athletes and the best, oh, excuse me, the best coaches in the world all are on that vibe. They're, they're like, they'll call you up, you can call them up, they'll help you. You know, there's, there's no shit talk amongst the best because they're too busy working.

    21. CWChris Williamson32:43

        I couldn't agree more. Having been very fortunate to have shared either oxygen or bandwidth with some of the smartest people on the planet over the last 18 months, everyone that I speak to is ... They're so concerned with trying to come together with even me to walk away from the conversation knowing more than they came into it. Absolutely everyone has this insatiable hunger for improving themselves and the people that are around them. Like, Stuart McGill doesn't... I, I, I asked him before, I was saying, "Oh, I'll, uh, I'll..." We took a photo together. I was like, "I'll tag you on Instagram and blah, blah." And I was like, "Oh, you might, you might see it once it goes up." And he's like, "I don't, I don't have Instagram, I don't do this." All that he's concerned about, all that Dr. McGill's bothered about is trying to focus on his work and do the thing that's in hand. And yeah, the, the best guys in the world, they don't do that. We live... M- my particular industry is a zero-sum game. It's a very, very small market, about 10,000, 12 to 15,000 people, and it means that if someone is going to your event, they're not coming to my event and vice versa. And I'm seeing that kind of mentality globally. It's like, there's seven billion people. There are enough to go around.

    22. KSKelly Starrett33:52

        It's a scarcity... There's a scarcity mindset and, um, you know, and, and the internet is a confusing place, you know. I go on Instagram and really try to understand what I see, and I, I see a lot of gym fuckery.

    23. CWChris Williamson34:04

        (laughs)

    24. KSKelly Starrett34:04

        I see a lot of wasted time, and that's okay. I'll never comment on it.

    25. CWChris Williamson34:09

        Mm-hmm.

    26. KSKelly Starrett34:09

        Right? And it's not that I think that, you know, we can't be more efficient, more effective, but I really try to understand what problems people are trying to solve and then evaluate critically what's happening. And, and it, and it takes a minute, it takes context. You have to show your associations. We want you to talk about, you know, the people who are influenced you and where you came from, and it's okay. It doesn't make you less, you know? And, um, that's okay. That's... You know, this is, uh, this is a newish market, right? It's a new field, and it's, it's only been around for 10 or 15 years, which it really has. It's gonna take a second for those things to eq- you know, to equalize, and the cream will always rise to the top. Um, we saw, or listened to Jay-Z talking about excellence, right? And he's like, "The definition of excellence is performing at a high level for a really long time, like a decade." And being hot means that you're really popular for a year or two. He's like, "And those things are not, you know, conflated. They're not the same thing." And so we see a lot of people get hot, and it's super hard to be around for a decade. You know, Mike Boyle has been around a long time, you know? He must be doing something right, or he's managed to fool tens of thousands-

    27. CWChris Williamson35:16

        (laughs) Consistently, yeah.

    28. KSKelly Starrett35:17

        ... of athletes and coaches. And, and, and, and, and the thing is, I'm like, "Are we that dumb that we can't tell that something works or doesn't work? Is that what you're selling?" And it may be that this is all placebo and belief effect, and I'm like, wow, you know, that's a lot of gold medals-

    29. CWChris Williamson35:31

        (laughs)

    30. KSKelly Starrett35:31

        ... and a lot of national... Yeah, it's effective placebo. And, and I'm willing to say that, you know? But I'm also willing to say, is there a better way? Show me a better model and show me a rationale for that thinking that way. And that's okay. It's okay to disagree on those things, but I need to know your rationale. But you shouting at me on the internet is, is-
11. 40:49 – 54:14

    Nutrition tribalism and ‘show me your work’: Game Changers, variability, ethics, and measurement

    1. CWChris Williamson40:49

       50 years ago, told you. Um, have you watched the Game Changers documentary?

    2. KSKelly Starrett40:54

       Uh, no, but I, I, uh, have had a lot of conversations about it.

    3. CWChris Williamson40:58

       Right, okay. Are you, have you got any intention to watch it?

    4. KSKelly Starrett41:01

       Yeah, you know, we should watch it because, uh, I- I think one of the things that we're seeing right now is people are very, you know, nutrition becomes very confusing. Um, I just read an article about, that Chris Kresser put up about just being keto, right, and, and, and carnivore-based, and I, I think what's interesting when you look at our, our traditions, we've always eaten plants and whatever very protein sources were available to us. I think the human being is tolerant to be able to burn whatever it wants, to use whatever it wants. I think that what we've seen is that people love to go keto or carnivore because they can be lazy again and then just take supplements to make themselves better, right? And so if I, if I'm having to exercise and then I have to do all this supplemental work, there may be some issues with my movement practice. If I'm eating a certain way but don't get enough B vitamins or essential fats and I have to add them in with a pill, that could be another thing. We also need to separate out potential drug use and anabolic use. We need to separate out and not always use context, so in historical context, can you imagine what the quality of their meat was when the gladiators were fighting? And maybe they found out they didn't get sick in that context. So if we're like, "Oh, gladiators don't eat meat," you know, I'm like, well, think about the Roman meat population problem, right? So I think what's interesting, if you look at Cate Shanahan and her book Deep Nutrition, you'll see that there are fundamental principles to the way people eat and have always been so. I think you can turn up and down the dials of how much protein you need. Um, it's difficult. You, you know, I, um, you know, the fastest way, people are like, "Kelly, I need to lose weight. Like, I need to lose muscle." Right? And we get this conversation sometimes, and I know that's madness, right?

    5. CWChris Williamson42:43

       Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say. Who is that? Give it to me.

    6. KSKelly Starrett42:47

       So you're too big and I'm like, "No problem. Here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna become a vegan and I'm gonna get you on a, a bike and we're gonna bike two hours a day and you're gonna be a vegan." And I guarantee you, you will blow through your musculature very quickly on that, that regimen. And-... now we have all these protein powders and processed foods that allow us to have multi protein sources that are vegetarian based. Ultimately though, absolutely a choice like religion to eat the way you want, but what you're gonna see is that people have been eating oughall for a long time. Not eating meat, right? Not eating the flesh of animals. We've been eating the animal itself. We eat organs, we eat connective tissue. We don't eat steaks, right? So something's weird there. Um, we eat the whole animal. We eat the brain, we eat the eyes, we eat the organs, right? You crack the bones and eat the marrow. You ate all of the, you know, plant matter that you could get into your hands. What was available to you. And what you'll start to see is that we oughall-

    7. CWChris Williamson43:42

       Right.

    8. KSKelly Starrett43:43

       ... we drink whole milk dairy if it's available to us. You know, we cook our meat on the bone. We don't, you know, we try to get as many different kinds of vegetables as you can. And so when you come in, imagine that you have an athlete who has been eating protein shakes and In and Out burgers and sausage rolls, and all of a sudden they start adding a ton of plant matter to their diet, and guess what happens? They feel better. Gut biome turns on, energy goes up, they lose weight because they're not eating these calorically dense processed foods. They're eating plants again. That seems pretty reasonable to me.

    9. CWChris Williamson44:17

       Mm-hmm.

    10. KSKelly Starrett44:17

        But then I'd say let's put our money where our ethics is and our, you know, if you're a 22-year-old kid trying to survive, you may have been only afford the really cheap eggs and the, the, the, the, the bags of frozen chicken which is like, I'll put in quotation marks, chicken, right?

    11. CWChris Williamson44:35

        Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    12. KSKelly Starrett44:36

        As you get older, you're like, "Hey, I can put my money into this, this animal that has a name, is pastured, right, that c- is sustainably sourced, that I'm closer to my meat. I eat from this..." Like, there's a whole lot of variability there. So I think what it proves is, man, are we eating as well as we're eating-

    13. CWChris Williamson44:54

        Yeah.

    14. KSKelly Starrett44:55

        ... you know, what is the basis? And then the second thing is, I need to see what the experiment looks like in 20 years, 30 years, and 40 years. Right? And I'm gonna need to see your blood panels because I'll tell you that most vegetarian proteins are handled by the body like a carbohydrate. So if you're highly inflamed and spiking your blood glucose and your A1C is off and you're like, "My plant-based diet is great," and meanwhile your testosterone is in the tanker, your IGF looks terrible, you're B vitamin deficient, vitamin D is shite, right? I mean, let's, let's make sure that we're actually measuring and I can apply that same rubric to your standard American diet, or your "I eat plants with a little bit of protein" diet, right? So what you'll see is that the rules are the same. And the thing that we're really careful about saying is that, hey, there is variability in human beings. Your squat width and my squat width is a little different. My torso comes forward a little bit more, and your torso's a little bit more upright when we front squat based on our anthropometry. Your genetics look a little different. If I just ate fat all the time, I would be a disaster. I would have disaster pants, my, my blood pressure would be ... I just don't handle all the saturated fats that some of my friends do who are Italian, right?

    15. CWChris Williamson46:03

        (laughs)

    16. KSKelly Starrett46:03

        So let's just say that there are first principles always, and I think it's absolutely a good thing to try to eat more diversity. Um, our friend Kay Shanahan points out that, you know, we used to probably eat close to 40 to 60 kinds of vegetables and fruits in a year and I'll ask you, can you name 20 vegetables?

    17. CWChris Williamson46:22

        No, not even gonna try.

    18. KSKelly Starrett46:22

        How many, when's the last, when's the last time you ate five different kinds of vegetables? And what you're seeing is, holy shit, what we were doing is we're saying brown rice and broccoli and a sashimi chicken breast is the answer to nutrition and performance, and all of a sudden what we saw was that, man, we're missing all the micronutrient density. So if you move to a plant-based system, fantastic. Ate enough protein to signal correctly, do you need ... I mean, I can see where they're coming from. The byproducts are sometimes, the gut fermentation of eating all of this meat may not be the best thing for you. Right? It has a consequence. We used to have this, uh, I used to be a professional kayaker and we had this stove in college that we'd cook on, and it was called the MSR International-

    19. CWChris Williamson47:04

        (laughs)

    20. KSKelly Starrett47:04

        ... and it would burn diesel, white gas, kerosene. Like, it burned anything, right?

    21. CWChris Williamson47:08

        (laughs) Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    22. KSKelly Starrett47:09

        And one time we were like, "Well, let's burn diesel. It says it burns diesel, let's do diesel." So we turn it on, black smoke is just roiling everywhere, like it's just charred everything and the jet clogs. So we have to take it apart, clean it out, turn it back on. Bleh, black smoke.

    23. CWChris Williamson47:23

        (laughs)

    24. KSKelly Starrett47:23

        Like, our noodles, our ramen smells like smoke. It's just shite and we're like, "Oh, it can burn diesel. It just shouldn't burn diesel." And I think if you realize how tolerant the human genome is, then there are a lot of ways in. Test retest, you need to show me your blood panels, we need to talk about what this looks like over the long haul, and I think you absolutely can be vegan and absolutely can be vegetarian. You just have to be very disciplined about it. Fantastic, great. I'm in. But you need to show me your work.

    25. CWChris Williamson47:49

        The problem is-

    26. KSKelly Starrett47:50

        Right?

    27. CWChris Williamson47:50

        ... the problem is that all of the things that we're doing, whether it be to do with training, whether it be to do with nutrition, whether it be to do with our mindset and the way that we structure our days-

    28. KSKelly Starrett48:01

        Yeah.

    29. CWChris Williamson48:01

        ... there is such a gap between the cause of whatever your choice is and the effect down the road. And that vacuum-

    30. KSKelly Starrett48:08

        Yeah.
12. 54:14 – 59:51

    Personal first principles: protect sleep, walk daily, eat plants first, and treat alcohol like a cost

    1. CWChris Williamson54:14

       Yeah, man. You're so right. So one thing that I wanted to, to finish on. We've touched on the word first principles a few times today. If you were to, um, talk about the first principles that you aim to have a holistic life from, overall, do you have a number of first principles that you try and stick to? So a guiding, a guiding rule set that you try and, and have in your mind at all times?

    2. KSKelly Starrett54:38

       Julianne and I protect our sleep like it's our job. It's the most important thing. We, we, and we control what we can control. We protect our sleep, and we just prioritize. Prioritize for ourselves and our children because we see that that is ... that's the game. We stopped drinking, predominantly, because what we found was that it really affected our sleep, and we also had to show, uh, our family, our kids that, like, we didn't need alcohol to come down or to have fun, or ... right? And, dude, someone pulls a great bottle of wine out and we'll have a glass, right? We're at, we're at a, you know, an amazing show, we're gonna have a vodka tonic. Like it's, it's okay, right? But what you'll see is that we've gone to drinking-... twice a month, you know, because we s- we were like, "Hey, this really has a huge cost on our sleep and our performance." And so we start to realize that, hey, I can start to begin to organize my thinking around protecting my sleep. So for example, we're on this first principle, I don't, I personally don't drink caffeine after four o'clock because it will mess up my sleep. I'll sleep, I just won't sleep as well. And so, you know, we started doing a lot of our soft tissue mobilization, just simple rolling out, foam rolling ball stuff, before we went to bed. Why? Because it, it caused us to relax and to sleep better. So suddenly, you know, we all sleep with eye masks and earplugs in our house. I don't sleep with earplugs 'cause I wanna hear the, all the fights and all the scary stuff, but everyone else sleeps with eye masks and earplugs in a pitch dark, cold room because it's about protecting the quality of the sleep. So suddenly, you start to see this organization around sleep as a first principle. Juliet and I try to walk 12,000 steps a day in addition to our training, because it takes that much to load, to accumulate enough fatigue, to decongest after the loading that we're doing. So the same way that we're saying to people, "Hey, you can't just eat pro- protein shakes and balance bars and bulletproof coffee and pretend like..." You know, coffee has no micronutrients and it's 700 calories. Like you've got to be fucking kidding me.

    3. CWChris Williamson56:29

       (laughs)

    4. KSKelly Starrett56:29

       Like let's make a better decision. Right? So the same way we're thinking about that, we're thinking about, you know, movements. If you're going to the gym and slamming yourself, but then you're sedentary the rest of the day, I guarantee you, you're not decongesting and unloading and reperfusing and, and moving your tissues enough. You're gonna get stiff. Your tiss- you're not, you're not gonna look great. Why? Because humans have to move. So however you want to get that, and if you live in a city, believe it or not, you may be hitting your steps just because you live in a city. It could be that living in a city is, is more important than like driving in your car from to your country house. So all of a sudden then we start, we start to organize ourselves around vegetables and fruits. That is this, the primary organization of our eating, vegetables and fruits, plus the best available protein that's, you know, that we can afford. Um, and then, you know, then things start to layer in. So you'll notice that I said sleep and move and vegetables and proteins, and holy crap, that's not sexy. That's free, and you can control that. And on days where I can't train, I've still moved my body, still protected my sleep, so when it's time to go, I can go. And really, that's- that's what we're trying to see is that, hey, let's not make these lists. Let's control what we can control. And then if you want to drink, drink when you're on vacation, drink when you're not stressed. Don't drink when you're stressed out and training hard. Don't, you know, don't, don't sacrifice your sleep because you're watching Netflix. Protect that shit, especially if we're talking about going the distance.

    5. CWChris Williamson57:54

       Couldn't agree more, man. Couldn't agree more. I'm now 15 months, uh, sober because I wanted to see if I could do 18 months in an industry where everybody drinks, and I wanted more time. I wanted my sleep to be better. And, um, the listeners will know, they've heard, they've heard this story a million times, but it's- it's the single best upgrade that I think most people in the 21st century can give themselves is to have a sustained period of sobriety with a reason for doing it.

    6. KSKelly Starrett58:22

       Well, go ahead and just test retest. How do you feel? How's your sleep? How'd your body composition go? How's your mental acuity? What you realize is that alcohol is a tasty, tasty poison, and one of the reasons we, alcohol is so important to us in the past is it was safe. That alcohol wasn't poisonous. You could mix water and rum, water and wine. You knew that that was safe. It was an important storeable way to store grain, to store grapes, right? It was, you know, imagine, you know, I'm just saying that it, it had its utility. We- we maybe don't need its utility as much. And, um, you know, and when you start to track those things, especially if the thing you care about is going faster and lifting more, you're like, "Hey, that's gonna have to come at a choice," the same way this chocolate cake is. And what we try to have people do is I'm like, "Look, is chocolate cake a problem?" No. Do you eat chocolate cake every day? Do you start eating chocolate cake at 11 o'clock like you do Pimm's Cup in the summer? No.

    7. CWChris Williamson59:16

       (laughs)

    8. KSKelly Starrett59:16

       Like, you know, so you don't start eating at, like let's- let's- let's have a brunch, you start eating chocolate cake every hour on the hour for the next 14 hours. That's crazy. Right? And so, you know, again, don't take our word for it. This is on you. Test, retest. Do you feel better? Are you happy with the way you feel? Great. Do you look great naked? Are you planning on being 100? What are those best practices? And it turns out that the performance community, how did I meet Cate Shanahan, the physician who was talking about food? Because I worked with her with the Lakers, right? Because those are the, those are the eating recommendations she put in into high performance basketball.

13. 59:51 – 1:02:48

    Where to find Kelly: The Ready State, trials, upcoming projects, and future Supple Leopard edition

    1. CWChris Williamson59:51

       I love it, man. Kelly, today has been absolutely fantastic. Um, for the listeners who want to check out more, where should they go now? Where's the hub for all things Kelly today?

    2. KSKelly Starrett1:00:02

       We are at The Ready State, and uh, you can see how we coach and think on the Instagram. Um, we've got a couple podcasts ourselves. We- we don't, we're not like you, we're not prolific. We have a- a season, something we're interested in, and then we go silent for a while. You know, we've talked about chronic pain. We've talked about kids. We, you know, so uh, we've talked about the history of CrossFit a little bit. Um, you know, all things, you know, we ended up having to care about sleep and hydration and walking and nutrition and stress because that was why your tissues sucked, and why are you so stiff, bro? You know, 'cause- because you're living in some kind of, you know, demi-human state. So I- I think that's really ultimately worth saying is, "Hey, we can't strip out the, your, your knee capsule or your hamstring stiffness from the way that you're existing in the world." We better talk to our smart friends who are experts in those things. So, uh, we're at the ready state. Come see how we coach. Come hang out with us.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:00:57

       Awesome, man. I'm sure that you will have a number of people who are m- very interested to find out h- what- what's going on. Final thing, what's- what's happening for you next? What's next on your schedule? Have you got anything coming up that's gonna be cool? You've got two, two big teams playing against each other at the moment. What else?

    4. KSKelly Starrett1:01:11

       Uh, well, you know, let's see, um, you know, we're in, we're phase one of The Ready State, and one of the things that we're really great about, we're stoked on, is that we have two weeks of trying it out, and we're gonna teach you how to mobilize in those two weeks. So if you've never mobilized or thought, "Hey, I should do some of that," or, "What, are my positions enough?" come on board for two weeks, and in those two weeks, we'll show you how it works and we'll show you what the thinking is. Cancel after two weeks and already you've had a, a free education. We're gonna come to Asia our phase two. We just have a lot planned, you know. Um, there's another edition of Supple Leopard coming around the corner eventually. And uh ...

    5. CWChris Williamson1:01:46

       Oh, there we go.

    6. KSKelly Starrett1:01:47

       Yeah, there's- there's just, you know, we're- we're figuring it out, we're smarter, and uh, if we were still saying the exact same thing we said six years ago, you should be alarmed. If you're, if you're not seeing the core principles stay the same, but the application of the principles being, being involved, then uh, you know, you should, you should run the other way.

    7. CWChris Williamson1:02:04

       Couldn't agree more. Kelly, today's been awesome. Everyone that is listening, all that we've talked about will be linked in the show notes below, of course. Go and check out The Ready State. Any questions, comments or feedback, leave them in the comments below or get at me @ChrisWillX on all social media, or get at The Ready State and uh, and hassle Kelly, Kelly, and he'll have to, he'll have to come on and, uh, and- and reply to some DMs or something like that. Kelly, it's been awesome. I hope you have a really good day, man.

    8. KSKelly Starrett1:02:29

       Thanks brother. Appreciate you guys.

Episode duration: 1:02:47