Modern WisdomKelly Starrett | Getting Better At The Game Of Life | Modern Wisdom Podcast 119
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
135 min read · 26,518 words- 0:00 – 15:00
We were in New…
- KSKelly Starrett
We were in New York, and we saw this thing called the Pegan diet. It was, uh, being advertised.
- CWChris Williamson
The what? Pegan diet?
- KSKelly Starrett
Pegan. Pegan.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- KSKelly Starrett
Paleo plus vegan. Plant-based diet with small amounts of animal protein. And we were like, "You mean food?" You know?
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- KSKelly Starrett
So one of my friends is a, a woman named E. C. Cienkowski and her ... she's optimized me nutrition. And she has this notion, first things first, let's improve the caloric density of your diet by getting you to eat 800 grams of vegetables and fruits a day. 800 grams, just hit that mark.
- CWChris Williamson
Me. (laughs) So ... (laughs)
- KSKelly Starrett
So that's how far away ... We're having a conversation about is this movie about being plant-based good or bad? I'm like, "Hey, I eat meat and eggs and cheese and all these other things, but I also get 800 grams of vegetables and fruits or a kilo of vegetables and fruits a day. That's my base."
- CWChris Williamson
Are you able to stick to around that?
- KSKelly Starrett
Piece of cake. I eat salad for breakfast. I eat ... a palmful of blueberries is 80 grams. So what you're seeing is, oh, you know, we, we villainize fruit, right?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- KSKelly Starrett
And I'm like, "Seriously? You think an app- like, eating two apples is really the limiting factor to your performance today?"
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- KSKelly Starrett
"What are you gonna eat instead? You know, like a protein shake? A highly processed impossible burger?"
- CWChris Williamson
I am joined by the supple leopard himself, Mr. Kelly Starrett. Kelly, welcome to the show.
- KSKelly Starrett
It is a pleasure to be, be back on the, uh, I don't know. I, I don't know if I can say it's the better side of the, uh, of the, the ocean, but I do have an affinity for the UK.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, man. Well, you're with me now. You, you're adopted for the next hour. We're gonna be talking about whatever we talk about. You can be British for a little while. Get a cup of tea out.
- KSKelly Starrett
Uh, well, I really ... what I'm gonna need is a cup from the Borough Market and then also a sausage roll. So if you can make that happen, I'm in.
- CWChris Williamson
That's like knowledge ... but that's you dropping your peak UK knowledge bombs, isn't it?
- KSKelly Starrett
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
It's like, what's the most quintessentially British thing that I can think of? It's a cup of tea and a sausage roll.
- KSKelly Starrett
That's right. That's right, that's right.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) So how are you, man? It's awesome to see you again. I, I, I, um, follow your stuff. I'm sure a lot of people that are listening will be as well. You guys have been super busy recently.
- KSKelly Starrett
You know, here's the deal. Um, we try to treat our thinking about human beings and our lives as a game you cannot win. All you can do is sort of play better and better and better. And to that end, if you, if you treat your fitness, your wellness, your health like a game with clear and clear, clear winners and losers, you know what all the rules are, you're a fool. I mean, that's, that's same in business, the same in raising kids. You know, these are open-ended tasks, and we have always reserved the right to get better and refine our thinking and to, and to think differently and critically about the needs of the people we serve. And to that end, you know, we just applied that same amount of thinking to, uh, to our business, and what we, we had is 10 years of experience helping people improve pain, helping people take a crack at moving more efficiently and more effectively on the things that they love, and really trying to get the physio and the doctor out of the conversation, because, you know, frankly so much of this, of what we're working on is, is disruptive in the way that, hey, this is a part of the language of being a human being, the same way that, like, you don't have to talk to a nutritionist when you have lunch, right? You don't have to talk to your doctor, you know, before you go to bed. I mean, it's crazy that there ... we have divorced musculoskeletal health and care and understanding, you know, from our environmental lifestyle selves and now we're trying to fix that. So what we, what we realize is that people are a lot more clever than we have originally given them credit for, and I mean, we've always assumed that people are more clever, but I don't think that, that our traditional industries have necessarily. And, uh, to that end, you know, we, we went ahead and, um, rebranded and changed our, the user experience and user interface, and we went from MobilityWOD, which was really confusing for people. Mobility now means nothing and WOD is a, you know, is a technical term, uh, that has been sort of co-opted by lots of companies like SobrietyWOD and FaithWOD and MentalityWOD. And then, um, we really felt like what we were doing was trying to help people in the context of their lives get as ready as they could for whatever they want to get ready for, and I've been talking about this notion of this Ready State, which is sort of saying, "You can't live in a ... you're not a monk. You have family obligations and private, previous history of injuries, and maybe you played a sport, and maybe you have a job that forces you to stay awake sometimes at odd hours. So how can, how ready can we get you and what can we control?" Which is really a different idea around, hey, I've got a, I have a box of 100 things, and if I don't check off my list of 100 things, I'm somehow a failure and I haven't bio-hacked or optimized. And instead we're saying this, "Hey, look. Let's play a more beautiful game." And that was really the, the birth of the Ready State.
- CWChris Williamson
That's awesome. I mean, a lot of people will be familiar with MobilityWOD. I think you're right. The opportunity for you to expand out from a term which is, uh, obvious, but perhaps a little constrictive in that mobility just focuses on that to the Ready State, which is something that seems a little bit more holistic. So what's ... how would you define the difference between what you were doing before and what you're doing now with regards to what you provide?
- KSKelly Starrett
Well, you know, I think people forget that when we started this project, you know, 10 years ago, you know, the iPhone didn't have a video camera. So, you know, YouTube was a nascent, emergent thing. And, you know, uh, we were on Blogger was the original platform and, uh, you know, we didn't set out to make a library that look- ended up looking and feeling like the, like the Al- Library of Alexandria with 4,000 videos in it.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- KSKelly Starrett
We set out to raise the bar and give people the tools to be able to take a crack at fixing themselves and making themselves feel better and improving their movement efficiency. And one of the things that, um, I think is in there it's, it's confusing for people is mobilizing ...... is a tool to restore your position. And, uh, for example, one of the reasons I don't think stretching ever really took off, I mean, we've- we've been known to stretch your whole life. I mean, your, your, your football coach made you stretch, et cetera, et cetera, right? But athletes don't do things that don't work. And when an athlete perceives poor value or poor return on value, they drop it out. And I ... we saw that. And of course, stretching can be a large and nebulous term, but what we saw was, you know, we, we came out, I'm a physio, but I'm a coach first. And if you ask me, sit me down on an airplane, I'm gonna say I'm a coach. And then I'm like, uh, I'm also a physio.
- CWChris Williamson
(clears throat)
- 15:00 – 30:00
I think it is.…
- KSKelly Starrett
a normal experience of being a human being, it doesn't mean I'm injured. But also, night sweats, dizziness, fever, vomiting, nausea, unaccountable weight loss, weight gain, change in bow- or bowel function, common problem with cough, sneeze, or swallow, those are red flags. And everyone in our gym can smell out that, "Hey, I don't think you're just sore. You've got something going on. You've got a fever and there's some disease. Let's go get, talk to a medical professional." Also, if you can't occupy your role in society, you can't do your job, can't play your role on this team, or there's a bone sticking out of your leg, or you've got, you know, rabies of the knees, you are injured and you need to get out of here. And the rest of it, though, our coaches own it. Our, our staff owns it. Our athletes own it, right? That it's a normal experience to come in with a patina of injury, with, uh, with the fact that you're stiff or you, you, you know, you came out of a, a, a bad soccer match when you were 14, and you, that ankle gets stiff sometimes, or you've just overdone it 'cause you're a meathead and you're, you know, and you, and sh- and she loves to do back-to-back triathlons, that's totally fine. But in this place, we actually have the well-won safe place. And to your point, it may be the only way that I'm not on, in jail, I'm not on drugs, because I figured out that I could self-medicate with exercise, and I've found a community of people that said, "I'll be there for you no matter what." That's a, that's, that's the new church.
- CWChris Williamson
I think it is. I think it is. And I feel very sorry for people who do not have that natural pull towards exercise. Uh, to your point about the gym on its own, this is something I've mentioned about before, but some of the listeners, it was a long time ago I first brought this up, and I, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on it as well. So, I came up with something, when I was probably around about 26, 27, and I called it the fitness menopause. And what it felt like to me was a change in my body, what my body was there to do. And it ma- meant that I'd spent eight years training purely for aesthetics. All I was bothered about was going into the gym, steeping in my own neuroses as I had the head, the headphones in, I'm looking in the mirror, talking to myself, despite being in a gym surrounded by people, not talking to any of those people except for, "Mate, have you finished on that bench yet? Can I take your plates?" Blah, blah. Um, and then, very quickly, I think 'cause I was like, uh, 27, 28, and as you begin to approach 30, you become chronically aware of your own mortality. You're also a little bit less bothered about maybe purely training for aesthetics. So, I decided to make the change. I switched across to CrossFit, um, and as a byproduct of that, bizarrely, my condition got better. I actually ended up in better condition than I'd been before because I was enjoying my training, but my body's, um, makeup, my body composition was no longer the purpose for my training. I'd externalized that to my performance. And so many people, so many of my friends now, I'm seeing that have been like, um, maybe little Instagram stars or whatever of the UK bro lifters, and they get to 27, 28, twen- ... I'm thinking, I'm watching my watch going, "It's fucking coming. It's coming for..." And then sure enough, bang. They start doing, uh, park runs, 5Ks on a morning, on a Sunday morning. Every single Sunday, they're doing that. Darren, who's one of my buddies, is doing that. Another one of the guys will start doing some swimming. A lot of guys I'm doing are now doing open water swimming 'cause they've found some pull through that as well. And it's so interesting that you have this move away from what is essentially bolstering perhaps a lack of self-confidence, or obviously it is exercise. But what that made me reflect on was so many people, especially young guys particularly, they take a route to bodybuilding as their first port of call because the barriers to entry are so low.... that people spend their entire lives doing the snatch and a clean and jerk. That's it, whole, whole athletic career. Take me into a gym, I can do a probably a moderately competent bicep curl within about two minutes. Like, it's so simple, right? And I just, I, you know, that was something that I'd thought of a long time ago, and I, I really do applaud CrossFit and these more public weightlifting gyms that are now coming across to the UK as well, for creating a community that forces people to talk. If you're doing a partner workout, you have to talk to the person that's with you. No one trains in a CrossFit gym with their headphones in. Everyone's talking, you know?
- KSKelly Starrett
No, you know what? You know what? It's important to recognize how ... that that is not a sustainable model, right? That go and put your headphones in, put your head down, taking selfies.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- KSKelly Starrett
It works for a minute, but also it's, you inherit the system and what you're seeing is that people are products of an environment, the products of a system.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- KSKelly Starrett
And, and it takes a minute to, to raise your consciousness and, and people come to that consciousness at different phases, right? So here's an example. My daughter Georgia is 14. Um, she plays varsity water polo. She, you know, has grown up ... and, and if you've ever watched a video, Georgia's in the videos, right? And she doesn't have school on Friday and she said is, "Hey, can we go into the gym with my mates? I'd like to go jump into a class." So I've been waiting for 14 years-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- KSKelly Starrett
... for her to say that.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- KSKelly Starrett
And, uh, you, it takes a minute to plant the seed.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- KSKelly Starrett
It takes a minute to look around and say, "Hey, is there a better way?" And this model of training on the internet, it's, it's nascent, it's, it's developing, it's, it's less than 15 years old. And the notion of sort of sharing kettlebells is very Russian. And if you came out of a track and field tradition, if you came out of, you know, a kettlebellisto or a kettlebell tradition or an Olympic lifting tradition, you had training partners and engaged in a training hall in a training environment. And that was because you just lucked into a community that already engaged in and valued these things. This is how we get together, how we train. You know, in, um, in the United States, I think we have a complicated relationship with American football, right? And one of the reasons it's complicated is we recognize that it's, it's dangerous and it's potentially splits our socio- on a, socioeconomic lines. But the reason I have come to believe that it still exists is it's the only time that young men in America were ever on a team, ever. Where they were ever ... you know, it didn't matter what your size was, there was a role for you. It didn't matter what your capacity was, there was a role for you. And even if you were a backup and you just supported the team through a scout offense, scout defense, you would s- you're still such a valuable member of the team and it's painful and you hurt together. And that, th- those things are one of the reasons that this small group training or being in a running club or swimming group really, really matters. And again, you know, to your point, hopefully we'll all see that there is a better way and, and the world has changed. We try to remind people that when we started this thing, th- this November is our official 14th year of being a gym. 14 years. And we started a, a year before that, so you know, we've been doing this for a minute. And um-
- CWChris Williamson
Have you managed to, uh, have you managed to hold on to your same, uh, uh, affiliation from the very start? Are you still paying-
- KSKelly Starrett
Oh, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... like, $300 a year or whatever it was, or like two- $20 a year?
- KSKelly Starrett
It's, it's 500.
- CWChris Williamson
$500 a year. Well, that's five-
- KSKelly Starrett
All right.
- CWChris Williamson
That's probably about like 3,500 less than most gyms-
- KSKelly Starrett
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... that are opening now.
- KSKelly Starrett
You know, and, um, you know, we, we took ... you know, we're, we're now officially the 21st CrossFit in the world and I'll tell you-
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, boy.
- KSKelly Starrett
... the style of training that we do, its core values remain the same as it was 15 years ago. The difference is, we are so much more sophisticated. Why? Because we've all evolved. 'Cause we now are hanging out with way more Olympic lifters and Olympic athletes and exposing ... so the, the training, but the, it's core value is that we show up, we, we train together, we play together, we compete together, right? We expose faults, everyone is down. One of the things that I, for example, I try to do with a lot of coaches is I ... this is my mother-in-law.
- CWChris Williamson
Hi, Mother-in-Law.
- KSKelly Starrett
Joanne, you want to say hi? There she is.
- CWChris Williamson
Hi. Hey.
- KSKelly Starrett
Right? 72?
- CWChris Williamson
75 in March.
- 30:00 – 45:00
Who'd have thought it?…
- KSKelly Starrett
bars to back to this thing called food. It turns out (both laugh)
- CWChris Williamson
Who'd have thought it?
- KSKelly Starrett
It's better for you. So-
- CWChris Williamson
I know.
- KSKelly Starrett
So some of it is that we're all engaged in a grand experiment, and the greatest thing that's happened is this fundamental notion amongst the masters like McGill, um, is test, retest, and share. Um, you'll see that the, the brightest minds on the planet never throw shade. Um, they don't attack people's techniques. They, they're like, hey, what, what problem are they trying to solve? Is that a better tool than the current tools that I have? And what's nice about that is you stop, you know, this is my, my dance space, this is my heart, kung fu heart style, and what we, we get about the, the, you know, the business of solving problems, and it's okay to have different, different tools and tactics. That's okay to disagree on that. But, um, you know, you need to s- you need to start showing your work. Like, for example, right now-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- KSKelly Starrett
Um, there's this team ... There's a little World Series going on, and I currently work with only two teams in professional baseball. One of them is the Nationals and the other one is the Astros, and they're both playing each other. Right? And I'm not saying-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- KSKelly Starrett
... I have any part to do with that-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- KSKelly Starrett
... but it's pretty fun that I get to test my principles-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- KSKelly Starrett
... at the highest levels of baseball. Nick Gill is the head strength and conditioning coach for the All Blacks. They're doing pretty well in the World Cup right now. They've been using our stuff in ready state for a long time. Right? Nick's a good mate of mine. Do I have anything to do with their success? No. But I get to test my theories and principles against them and see if I can support them and make them more efficient. So, at some point, I need to see your Olympic medals, I need to see your associations, I need to see what groups you're in, I need to see how you think of public health. I need to see that you... One-on-one is great, but that I'm interested now in this notion of social justice, and do your, do your models and, and ideas scale. Because if we can't begin to walk this back to high school, and walk it back to middle school, and walk it back to elementary school, then we're just perpetuating the same old bullshit that we've done where people show up poorly prepared, down-regulated, eating like crap, on the internet, not, not in a physical culture, d- not tied to a group of people, and then we start backing out of that, and that's a much more difficult conversation. So, you know, this has gotta be about, uh, public health. This has gotta be about, you know, this is gonna sound totally cheesy, the original vow of the Bodhisattva is like, dude, if you're a coach, you're working to make sure that all people are better movers, better athletes, better people. That's the central tenet of a coach.
- CWChris Williamson
It sounds like-
- KSKelly Starrett
And I, and I, and I will say that the best athletes and the best, oh, excuse me, the best coaches in the world all are on that vibe. They're, they're like, they'll call you up, you can call them up, they'll help you. You know, there's, there's no shit talk amongst the best because they're too busy working.
- CWChris Williamson
I couldn't agree more. Having been very fortunate to have shared either oxygen or bandwidth with some of the smartest people on the planet over the last 18 months, everyone that I speak to is ... They're so concerned with trying to come together with even me to walk away from the conversation knowing more than they came into it. Absolutely everyone has this insatiable hunger for improving themselves and the people that are around them. Like, Stuart McGill doesn't... I, I, I asked him before, I was saying, "Oh, I'll, uh, I'll..." We took a photo together. I was like, "I'll tag you on Instagram and blah, blah." And I was like, "Oh, you might, you might see it once it goes up." And he's like, "I don't, I don't have Instagram, I don't do this." All that he's concerned about, all that Dr. McGill's bothered about is trying to focus on his work and do the thing that's in hand. And yeah, the, the best guys in the world, they don't do that. We live... M- my particular industry is a zero-sum game. It's a very, very small market, about 10,000, 12 to 15,000 people, and it means that if someone is going to your event, they're not coming to my event and vice versa. And I'm seeing that kind of mentality globally. It's like, there's seven billion people. There are enough to go around.
- KSKelly Starrett
It's a scarcity... There's a scarcity mindset and, um, you know, and, and the internet is a confusing place, you know. I go on Instagram and really try to understand what I see, and I, I see a lot of gym fuckery.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- KSKelly Starrett
I see a lot of wasted time, and that's okay. I'll never comment on it.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- KSKelly Starrett
Right? And it's not that I think that, you know, we can't be more efficient, more effective, but I really try to understand what problems people are trying to solve and then evaluate critically what's happening. And, and it, and it takes a minute, it takes context. You have to show your associations. We want you to talk about, you know, the people who are influenced you and where you came from, and it's okay. It doesn't make you less, you know? And, um, that's okay. That's... You know, this is, uh, this is a newish market, right? It's a new field, and it's, it's only been around for 10 or 15 years, which it really has. It's gonna take a second for those things to eq- you know, to equalize, and the cream will always rise to the top. Um, we saw, or listened to Jay-Z talking about excellence, right? And he's like, "The definition of excellence is performing at a high level for a really long time, like a decade." And being hot means that you're really popular for a year or two. He's like, "And those things are not, you know, conflated. They're not the same thing." And so we see a lot of people get hot, and it's super hard to be around for a decade. You know, Mike Boyle has been around a long time, you know? He must be doing something right, or he's managed to fool tens of thousands-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Consistently, yeah.
- KSKelly Starrett
... of athletes and coaches. And, and, and, and, and the thing is, I'm like, "Are we that dumb that we can't tell that something works or doesn't work? Is that what you're selling?" And it may be that this is all placebo and belief effect, and I'm like, wow, you know, that's a lot of gold medals-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- KSKelly Starrett
... and a lot of national... Yeah, it's effective placebo. And, and I'm willing to say that, you know? But I'm also willing to say, is there a better way? Show me a better model and show me a rationale for that thinking that way. And that's okay. It's okay to disagree on those things, but I need to know your rationale. But you shouting at me on the internet is, is-
- CWChris Williamson
Achieves nothing.
- KSKelly Starrett
... childish. It changes nothing.
- CWChris Williamson
My, my dad's always had-
- KSKelly Starrett
Show me, show me your work.
- CWChris Williamson
My dad's always had this saying, which is, "Form is temporary, class is permanent."
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
(laughs) …
- KSKelly Starrett
Right? And I'm gonna need to see your blood panels because I'll tell you that most vegetarian proteins are handled by the body like a carbohydrate. So if you're highly inflamed and spiking your blood glucose and your A1C is off and you're like, "My plant-based diet is great," and meanwhile your testosterone is in the tanker, your IGF looks terrible, you're B vitamin deficient, vitamin D is shite, right? I mean, let's, let's make sure that we're actually measuring and I can apply that same rubric to your standard American diet, or your "I eat plants with a little bit of protein" diet, right? So what you'll see is that the rules are the same. And the thing that we're really careful about saying is that, hey, there is variability in human beings. Your squat width and my squat width is a little different. My torso comes forward a little bit more, and your torso's a little bit more upright when we front squat based on our anthropometry. Your genetics look a little different. If I just ate fat all the time, I would be a disaster. I would have disaster pants, my, my blood pressure would be ... I just don't handle all the saturated fats that some of my friends do who are Italian, right?
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- KSKelly Starrett
So let's just say that there are first principles always, and I think it's absolutely a good thing to try to eat more diversity. Um, our friend Kay Shanahan points out that, you know, we used to probably eat close to 40 to 60 kinds of vegetables and fruits in a year and I'll ask you, can you name 20 vegetables?
- CWChris Williamson
No, not even gonna try.
- KSKelly Starrett
How many, when's the last, when's the last time you ate five different kinds of vegetables? And what you're seeing is, holy shit, what we were doing is we're saying brown rice and broccoli and a sashimi chicken breast is the answer to nutrition and performance, and all of a sudden what we saw was that, man, we're missing all the micronutrient density. So if you move to a plant-based system, fantastic. Ate enough protein to signal correctly, do you need ... I mean, I can see where they're coming from. The byproducts are sometimes, the gut fermentation of eating all of this meat may not be the best thing for you. Right? It has a consequence. We used to have this, uh, I used to be a professional kayaker and we had this stove in college that we'd cook on, and it was called the MSR International-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- KSKelly Starrett
... and it would burn diesel, white gas, kerosene. Like, it burned anything, right?
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- KSKelly Starrett
And one time we were like, "Well, let's burn diesel. It says it burns diesel, let's do diesel." So we turn it on, black smoke is just roiling everywhere, like it's just charred everything and the jet clogs. So we have to take it apart, clean it out, turn it back on. Bleh, black smoke.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- KSKelly Starrett
Like, our noodles, our ramen smells like smoke. It's just shite and we're like, "Oh, it can burn diesel. It just shouldn't burn diesel." And I think if you realize how tolerant the human genome is, then there are a lot of ways in. Test retest, you need to show me your blood panels, we need to talk about what this looks like over the long haul, and I think you absolutely can be vegan and absolutely can be vegetarian. You just have to be very disciplined about it. Fantastic, great. I'm in. But you need to show me your work.
- CWChris Williamson
The problem is-
- KSKelly Starrett
Right?
- CWChris Williamson
... the problem is that all of the things that we're doing, whether it be to do with training, whether it be to do with nutrition, whether it be to do with our mindset and the way that we structure our days-
- KSKelly Starrett
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... there is such a gap between the cause of whatever your choice is and the effect down the road. And that vacuum-
- KSKelly Starrett
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... that gap-
- KSKelly Starrett
For sure.
- CWChris Williamson
... is exactly where charlatans are able to move in and potentially commercialize or monetize. That's also where disinformation can go in, that's where social campaigns can garner momentum and all sorts of stuff. Everything that we've actually spoken about today, whether it's from a strength and conditioning perspective, whether it's from a more, um, holistic mobility side, whether it's the diet, all of these things are very, very complex and people have different goals. What I want out of my training and my diet might be different to you-
- KSKelly Starrett
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... or some-
- KSKelly Starrett
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... some- somebody else.
- KSKelly Starrett
100%. And, and I, I, I think when we come back to first principles and then we can say, you know, if you, you're like, "I heel strike because heel striking is the best when I run."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- KSKelly Starrett
I'm like, "Great. Don't want to change it? That's totally okay. You mean you don't want to use your heel cord and you're so fast?" But you have to come out unharmed at 20 years, at 30 years, and if all of a sudden you have destructed heel cords-... and you're injured, and your heel bone is terrible, and your back is ... and you can't run anymore, then I'm like, "Maybe we should think differently about, uh, that experiment." And, and that is, that is difficult, right? And it's difficult for us to see inputs and outputs. So if someone went super plant-based, and then they stopped going super plant-based, would you say that was a failed diet? Right? 'Cause it didn't work for them?
- CWChris Williamson
No.
- KSKelly Starrett
How would we know? So I'm like, "Yeah, plants, whoa!"
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- 1:00:00 – 1:02:48
We are at The…
- CWChris Williamson
Kelly today?
- KSKelly Starrett
We are at The Ready State, and uh, you can see how we coach and think on the Instagram. Um, we've got a couple podcasts ourselves. We- we don't, we're not like you, we're not prolific. We have a- a season, something we're interested in, and then we go silent for a while. You know, we've talked about chronic pain. We've talked about kids. We, you know, so uh, we've talked about the history of CrossFit a little bit. Um, you know, all things, you know, we ended up having to care about sleep and hydration and walking and nutrition and stress because that was why your tissues sucked, and why are you so stiff, bro? You know, 'cause- because you're living in some kind of, you know, demi-human state. So I- I think that's really ultimately worth saying is, "Hey, we can't strip out the, your, your knee capsule or your hamstring stiffness from the way that you're existing in the world." We better talk to our smart friends who are experts in those things. So, uh, we're at the ready state. Come see how we coach. Come hang out with us.
- CWChris Williamson
Awesome, man. I'm sure that you will have a number of people who are m- very interested to find out h- what- what's going on. Final thing, what's- what's happening for you next? What's next on your schedule? Have you got anything coming up that's gonna be cool? You've got two, two big teams playing against each other at the moment. What else?
- KSKelly Starrett
Uh, well, you know, let's see, um, you know, we're in, we're phase one of The Ready State, and one of the things that we're really great about, we're stoked on, is that we have two weeks of trying it out, and we're gonna teach you how to mobilize in those two weeks. So if you've never mobilized or thought, "Hey, I should do some of that," or, "What, are my positions enough?" come on board for two weeks, and in those two weeks, we'll show you how it works and we'll show you what the thinking is. Cancel after two weeks and already you've had a, a free education. We're gonna come to Asia our phase two. We just have a lot planned, you know. Um, there's another edition of Supple Leopard coming around the corner eventually. And uh ...
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, there we go.
- KSKelly Starrett
Yeah, there's- there's just, you know, we're- we're figuring it out, we're smarter, and uh, if we were still saying the exact same thing we said six years ago, you should be alarmed. If you're, if you're not seeing the core principles stay the same, but the application of the principles being, being involved, then uh, you know, you should, you should run the other way.
- CWChris Williamson
Couldn't agree more. Kelly, today's been awesome. Everyone that is listening, all that we've talked about will be linked in the show notes below, of course. Go and check out The Ready State. Any questions, comments or feedback, leave them in the comments below or get at me @ChrisWillX on all social media, or get at The Ready State and uh, and hassle Kelly, Kelly, and he'll have to, he'll have to come on and, uh, and- and reply to some DMs or something like that. Kelly, it's been awesome. I hope you have a really good day, man.
- KSKelly Starrett
Thanks brother. Appreciate you guys.
Episode duration: 1:02:47
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