Life Beyond Being Shredded | Jamie Alderton | Modern Wisdom Podcast 208

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Yeah, no one cares.…

   1. JAJamie Alderton0:00

      Yeah, no one cares. No one cares at all. Imagine, if you will, that you can't swim and I've chucked you in the deep end and all you're doing is flapping your arms trying to get breath. Now imagine 7.5 billion people doing that metaphorically every single day. Your wants and needs are your wants and needs. Everybody else has got so much shit in their life that even if you were a passing thought, you will be quickly forgotten with the amount of problems that that person has to solve each day. So if you're hindering yourself based on the things that other people who aren't even considering you are thinking, then you're doing yourself a disservice because no one cares.

   2. CWChris Williamson0:46

      I'm joined by Jamie Ollerton. Jamie, welcome to the show.

   3. JAJamie Alderton0:49

      Chris, thanks for having me on.

   4. CWChris Williamson0:51

      Pleasure for you to join us today. Talk to me about what you've been doing. What's your day got in store for you?

   5. JAJamie Alderton0:57

      Um, today, well, at the moment we're just building our new offices, so we're kind of, um, to and from there, um, I've got a lot of client work doing 'cause I run two memberships, uh, kind of a B2... I say B2B, so helping, uh, fitness professionals scale and grow their business, and the B2C side helping people get healthier, happier, fitter and stronger. So juggle- you know, spinning those two plates is, is, um, full-time job, uh, and obviously I have no clue about building stuff. You know, I go into the builders and they're talking about... I, I have no idea and I just had to say to them, like, "I do push-ups for a living. You need to, like-"

   6. CWChris Williamson1:31

      (laughs)

   7. JAJamie Alderton1:31

      "... you need to get, like, a whiteboard and draw it out in crayons for me." So they're, they're, they're getting there, but, you know, how I've made it this far with stuff like that, I don't know.

   8. CWChris Williamson1:38

      There's got to be a point in every man's life where he becomes his dad in terms of capability for DIY.

   9. JAJamie Alderton1:44

      That... Unfor-

   10. CWChris Williamson1:45

       I haven't crossed that threshold yet.

   11. JAJamie Alderton1:46

       Unfortunately that will... Yeah. That will never happen, unfortunately. I still to this day at th- at 35 years of age, if I need a picture, um, put up, uh, my dad will get the phone call. I, I have attempted and this office looks really nice, but it's just an office of lies.

   12. CWChris Williamson2:02

       (laughs)

   13. JAJamie Alderton2:02

       Because behind every single frame is holes, like, and, and really deep bits of plaster that's been crisped off the wall. I literally have yet to successfully put up a picture because I've, I only have two tools, Chris. If it doesn't go in with a Allen key or hammer, then that's it. Um, the dad gets the phone call.

   14. CWChris Williamson2:23

       Yeah. I, I wish that I could say I wasn't outsourcing everything manly to my dad as well. I don't feel emasculated by that. I think that we are the savant 21st century man.

   15. JAJamie Alderton2:36

       Yeah, I mean, my ironing game's on point, but that's what seven years in the army does, so.

   16. CWChris Williamson2:41

       Yeah.

   17. JAJamie Alderton2:42

       (laughs) You're kind of forced to those kind of things. So, so my wife gets me to all the ironing, um, and to be honest, we, we, we share, like, she, she does the lawn. Now, a lot of guys would think that mowing the lawn is a very masculine thing to do and, and like we said with... that you said with the savant thing, I disagree. (laughs)

   18. CWChris Williamson3:02

       Oh.

   19. JAJamie Alderton3:03

       We, we, we have, we have, like, a, a weird exchange of things. Even cooking food. I cook the steaks, okay? She does the roast potatoes. You know, we all have our roles with certain things and it's just based on the skills that we have. Not, not, ne- nothing to do with gender at all. It's due to who's better at that job and do it. And I, I, I... for some reason I've never enjoyed mowing the lawn.

   20. CWChris Williamson3:23

       That is a very egalitarian household right there.

   21. JAJamie Alderton3:27

       (laughs)

   22. CWChris Williamson3:27

       Equality of access to the, to the ironing board, equality of access to the mower outside.

   23. JAJamie Alderton3:33

       Yeah. Well, there you go. I mean, we, we just find the best person for the job and if we both dislike it, outsource.

   24. CWChris Williamson3:39

       Eh, well, exactly. That's it. What a, what a wonderful way that you could just scale a family forward now.

   25. JAJamie Alderton3:44

       Yeah, well, we, we're trying to... We... Our daughter's six coming on seven, and she's le-... She's, she's getting there with a few things. She actually enjoys cleaning, which has got a big smile on my face.

   26. CWChris Williamson3:53

       (laughs) Yeah, that's it. So what you need to do is develop your child into the weakness in both yours and your missus's wheelhouses.

   27. JAJamie Alderton4:01

       Yeah, at the, at the moment, at the moment bribery is working. Um, Trolls World Tour stickers.

   28. CWChris Williamson4:07

       Okay. Yep.

   29. JAJamie Alderton4:08

       The only thing, the only thing is they're 80p a pack of, of eight I think it is, and thing is, is, you know these sticker books, they sound like a good idea at first, but you've got probably about 450 quids worth of stickers in there. And it's even worse when you get to the end because you are buying all of these packets of stickers and she's already got them, so it's...

   30. CWChris Williamson4:29

       Trying to get the one that you need. Have you, have you prorated out what that comes out to at, uh, an hourly rate? 'Cause my business partner who loves a spreadsheet would have done that.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   (laughs) …

   1. JAJamie Alderton15:00

      happy just as long as I could sniff them.

   2. CWChris Williamson15:02

      (laughs)

   3. JAJamie Alderton15:02

      So it's, it's these kind of things that affect you, and, and a couple of weeks before, um, you know, our daughter, I was carrying my daughter around town, and we went from one shop to the other and I was exhausted. I said, "Look, I'm knackered." Yet, an hour later, I was ripping deadlifts off the floor. So, there's lots of things that are involved with that, and you think, "Well, what, what is all of this for?" And if I'm being honest, you know, to the untrained eye, you could look shredded, like photo shoot shape, and you could look the epitome of health and actually be the epitome of health if you've got a good amount of muscle tissue. And for me, my shoot shape is around, let's just say about 196 pounds. That was when I was on the front cover of Muscle & Fitness magazine. Yet, my stage weight is 180. So if you were to look at me, you know, front cover, I look shredded. But if you were to say, if I were to say, "No, actually, I need to lose another 16 pounds," you would be like, "Where, where from?"

   4. CWChris Williamson16:00

      (laughs) Yeah.

   5. JAJamie Alderton16:01

      And I'm like, "I, I, I will tell you where f-, like, th- this is about another 14 weeks (laughs) of being in a calorie deficit and, and training in order to achieve that." So when you understand that, you're like, "Well, why, like, if you look absolutely great at that, why would you ever go anywhere below?" And the only time you would would be for a, you know, for a competition. Um, and, you know, I found other ways of scratching that itch now o- you know, since 2016. So, that's a lot more selfless, you know. I do, every, every two years, I do a big charity event. Um, that pushes me mentally and physically because I always do, like, stupid things, shall we say? (laughs) Uh, but it raises a lot of money for charity and, uh, raises a lot of money for one of my local children's charities. So it, it has a lot of se- uh, has a lot of selfish itches that get scratched, but it has even more selfless because actually other people benefit from it, which, you know, other people suffer when I, you know, when I used to compete. There was no benefit to it whatsoever apart from my own selfish gains.

   6. CWChris Williamson17:05

      Privatized gains and socialized losses, as Naval Ravikant would call it. How much of an influence was your daughter being born on this red pill moment, the, the mena- the menopause onset?

   7. JAJamie Alderton17:17

      A lot. I mean, up until that time, I was, I would say I was a very extremely driven, selfish, arrogant person that cared nothing but his own achievements. You know, even my-

   8. CWChris Williamson17:30

      Despite, despite having a missus?

   9. JAJamie Alderton17:31

      Yeah. Yeah. (laughs) Yeah, I mean, how is she still with me, I don't know. Like... (laughs)

   10. CWChris Williamson17:36

       She's a saint. She's a saint.

   11. JAJamie Alderton17:37

       She... I really, like, I always say, you know, whenever I do a post and I'm like... 'Cause I've been with my wife since 13, okay? Since the age of 13, so she's grown up with me, and I think, you know, there's one person that knows the real me, it's my wife. And a lot of people have actually asked this, said, you know, and this is just shifting gears a little bit, but a lot of people have said to my wife, "How have you stayed together so long?" And she said, "Well, I've married six different men." And it was very fascinating how she said that because she goes, "Well, you know, I got with a boy. I, you know, then grew up with, uh, a person who was joining the army, and then leaving the army, and then I married a competitor, then I married a business owner, and then..." And, and it was this whole transitioning to that thing, and I've changed as a person throughout that journey. And, you know, if, if you wanna know our key to a relationship, it, it can be evolving and growing together and not staying the same. It can be a very strong thing because, you know, if you say, "Oh, you know, we've been together 22 years," it doesn't feel like it because we've gone through different evolutions of that. So, um, yeah, it's always been a, a fascinating thing to, to understand that.But going back to what we were saying, you know, being extremely selfish, and I think a lot of that was I had to prove to myself that I was worthy of things. Because I think a lot of people, they stay in this kind of rut of teetering between selfishness and selflessness because they're not willing to give their complete selfish, you know, complete selfishness to achieve something that's gonna make them more selfless, if that makes sense. Um, 'cause in order to help people at a lower level, you need to play it at a high level and sometimes in order to play and win at a high level, you need to make a lot of sacrifice, um, whatever it is that you're focused on achieving. And, um, I think it was a very, it was a very interesting podcast with Tim Ferriss and Walter O'Brien, I don't know if you know who Walter O'Brien is, he's, um... Basically at the age of six, he hacked, uh, he was basically, he hacked into a computer in Ireland and, um, FBI knocked on his door and he, uh, was actually downloading, um, NASA, uh, space programs on his, uh-

   12. CWChris Williamson19:49

       Jesus Christ.

   13. JAJamie Alderton19:49

       ... dot matrix printer. Uh, I think he's, uh, he's got an IQ of 197 and fas- fascinating podcast, he was talking about how far we're away from head transplants and what would be required to do that but he said a quote about in order to... And it stuck with me because it's quite polarizing, and what he said is, it was about Mother Teresa, he said, uh, "Mother Teresa hugged a thousand people in their time and they still died. Bill Gates wrote a check which wiped out malaria." And he said it, uh, he thinks, "It's important that you should spend s- uh, part of your life being completely selfish so you can spend the rest of it being completely selfless." And it was a very fascinating quote that he said because it's like, right, so if the answer to be more helpful to people is to be extremely selfish, what is it that you're gonna do on this planet for yourself in order to do that? And that- that's one thing that I've noticed with a lot of people when you talk about they've evolved in their fitness. I feel like I've got to a stage where I'm happy that I've achieved enough to be confident. No matter what I do in fitness, I will- I will feel like it's enough, if that makes sense. So-

   14. CWChris Williamson20:58

       There's a- a quote- a quote that completely slots into what you're saying, "It is easier to fulfill your material desires than to renounce them."

   15. JAJamie Alderton21:08

       Yeah, exactly. And, um, you know, I don't feel I've got any more to prove with my fitness journey other than to keep on top of it, to stay on this planet as long as possible, and every couple of years just- just let people know that th- I'm not dead yet.

   16. CWChris Williamson21:23

       (laughs)

   17. JAJamie Alderton21:26

       Um, and it's like, you know, the worst thing that anybody could say to me in the next 10, 20, 30 years is, "You're past it." 'Cause I will not only come back, I will look you in the face and go, "I told you so." Um, and I've been driven by spite for a lot of things, and the main reason being is that I've... Back- back when we were talking about when I was 236 pounds, we- we were at the first European WBFF show in the UK and I was hammered. I wa- I was at the bar pissed, I'd had about 10 pints of Guinness, and I was telling all the competitors, "I'll be back on the world stage next year kicking all of your asses." And they laughed their tits off, they're like, "Yeah, yeah, all right, Jay, whatever." Like, as in, "You're past it." And I could remember, I even remember that now, and I had three of them text me two weeks before the worlds and goes, "Fair play." And it was just, didn't need to say it, but it's like, yeah. And- and other things with regards to my, you know, my charity events, box jumping Everest, no one had ever box jumped Everest and I, I don't think anyone was stupid enough and in order to do it, I needed to box jump 14,550 box jumps in less than 24 hours and, you know, if anybody's done 10 box jumps, they'll know how difficult that was. So I had a lot of people s- even after I'd done it saying, "I did not think you could do that." And I, and the only reason, well, apart from m- the most important one, raising the money for charity and, you know, me feeling compelled to do it because there's no way that I couldn't 'cause I wouldn't let down those children, but that spite of going, "Just because you said that it's not possible or somebody can't do it doesn't mean that I can't." Um, and I think that comes down to complete self-belief that if you commit to understanding what it takes to do something, then you're able to achieve it because most things are based on fundamentals. And anything endurance-wise is based on the said principle which is essentially specific adaptation to imposed demands. You impose enough progressive load on and stress on the body over time, it will adapt, it will improve and it will increase. You've just got to know where to push those buttons, how long you need and essentially have that talent which a lot of competitors have and that's the ability to suffer. And that's one thing that I would say, if you, uh, if we had, if we were playing top trumps and we had one of those little things, that's what, that's one of my high powers is just the ability to suffer for a long period of time.

   18. CWChris Williamson23:49

       It's interesting to see what happens when you break down a big accomplishment into small steps. Like you could, if you were given enough time, you could walk to Mars, you know? Like if you were given a couple of eons, you could walk to Mars 'cause it's just one step in front of the other. Can you take a step? Yes. Right, okay, that's all that walking to Mars is. It's just a whole bunch of steps. The same as your box jumping Everest, 14,000 and a bit box jumps, was it 22 and a half hours it took you?

   19. JAJamie Alderton24:15

       Yeah. That was right, yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson24:16

       Tell us about that, tell us how that felt.

   21. JAJamie Alderton24:19

       (laughs) Um, so I've done a few... This was my third big 24-hour event that I've done and so I had a bit to compare it to but I would say out of the three, it was- it was the hardest one that I'd done because the other two, I could slow the pace down. So if I was feeling a bit tired, I could just reduce the pace down. So, you know, I- I pushed a s- um, a sled for 24 hours and for that, you know, you adapt to it but also you, for the first four or five hours, you can pick up a higher pace so when you're exhausted, you can pick up those lost laps from the beginning. But this, you needed to hit 660 per hour or you weren't gonna get the record. So there w- there was no, "Oh, I just need to slow down this hour," you had to hit...... a threshold, and that threshold was th- between thir- thirteen and fifteen box jumps every minute. So, the, that's a lot of pressure because I had a couple of hours there, an hour nine and an hour ten, um, my quad went, um, into a spasm, my calf had gone, and I just, and it was the most excruciating hour, where in your head you're like, "You've got twelve more hours of this." And it's the narrative that you put in your head. And as you were saying with breaking things down, I didn't look at it as, "Oh, I've got ten hours left," I'm like, "You've got thirty-six more rounds before you can take a ten-minute rest." 'Cause w- our effective strategy which we realized was that we need to give ourselves adequate rest. So instead of trying to do 660 box jumps in an hour, we need to do 660 box jumps in 50 minutes. So we need to go a faster pace, just so we can get that ten minutes to feed, go to the toilet, rest, recover, and sort out any niggles or injuries that we've got. So that hour, it was just, yeah, you've got, just gotta, you've just gotta smash through these thirty-six rounds and then you can sit down, you can get a massage, and then you can get ready for the next evolution. And that's something that I loved hearing about. I loved that, uh, talk, I think it's General McRavey, old McRavey talking about, um, never ring the bell. Um, and he says basically with Navy SEALs, you go through Hell Week and you basically don't sleep for five, you get about two hours sleep in five days, which a lot of people don't think... Well, no, you don't just get to... And like, you do. People don't think that it's possible for a body to stay up that... Well, there's plenty of SEALs that will show you that that is true. And he says the ones that make it is, you know, if- if you wanna quit at any time in those five days, you- you just ring a bell. And he says the people that pass that, th- there was never a bell in their head. There wasn't a bell there. It was just con- continue to go on. And I think if I'm kind of breaking that down, w- my f- my second charity event, I actually put a bell at the start line and I painted a picture saying "There is no bell." So that was a great reminder from my last one to say, "Look, I, you know, I passed that bell every single lap and I was never gonna ring it." But I've always had that, uh, in my head as just like, "Right, it's not you've gotta continue on, you've just gotta do the next hour." And it comes down to this one chapter a day analogy that I do with a lot of things. You know, small thing, we all know that small things don't consistently turn into big results, but people just aren't patient enough to hit the small things consistently. And what I say to people is that, "If- if you're committed to reading one chapter of a book a day, the average self-development book, eleven to twelve chapters, means you're gonna get between thirty and thirty-four books read in a year. But if you just go in with a mentality of here's the thirty-four books that need to change my life, I'm just gonna try and get through them throughout the year, you'll probably only get five or ten done." And it just comes down to that strategy, as you said, Chris. People aren't willing to be patient enough for results and persistent enough to hit a small minimum effective dose every day.

   22. CWChris Williamson28:07

       Ethan Suplee, the actor from Butterfly Effect and Wolf of Wall Street and the huge, huge guy from Remember the Titans, who's now 236 pounds, he's lost 300 pounds and is 10% body fat. He'd be amazing to get on your show actually. I- I can do an intro if you're interested. He's a phenomenal dude, amazing guy, big into his training, big into his health and fitness. And he had a martial arts instructor for a movie that he was doing and this sensei guy, um, he was wearing this T-shirt and this T-shirt said, um, "Kill your clone" on it. And I was like, "What's that?" And he's like, "Oh, it's my sensei's little saying that he's got that every day you wake up and you have to have a fight with you from yesterday. It's a clone of you. And if you haven't made that marginal gain, if you haven't slept slightly better, become slightly more mindful, become slightly fitter, become slightly smarter, whatever it might be, if you go to bed worse than when you woke up, your clone kills you." He's like, "That's not the way it works. It's like you kill your clone every day." And, uh, you know, everyone that's been on this show, James Smith, good example, someone who from a- a- a business and notoriety standpoint has done some fairly sort of astronomical celestial things, but he says himself, "What I do isn't that impressive. It's just my consistency at doing it over time effectively." James Clear's been on this show, author of Atomic Habits, my favorite book from the last couple of years. And he says the same thing. It's just like, "Just show up. Just do the thing, the minimum effective dose. Go to the gym and do a press up and then go home. Go to the gym and do two press ups and then go home." And the same with what you've done. The progressive overload is king in all areas of life. And that's like the best thing, I think, the- the best, um, unifying principle that I learned from bodybuilding and- and fitness training is the concept of progressive overload. Like, really, really understanding what that means, uh, the, just that tonnage each week.

3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah, and you know,…

   1. CWChris Williamson30:00

      Can I do that with reading? Can I do that with the precision in my speech? Can I do that with the relationships that I have with everybody else? Because that is, that is what development means in a very, a very sort of pure sense. The capacity to do more than you were previously able to do. I had a guest on who had a other interesting, uh, view on it. He said, uh, "Self-development is the ability to hold more complexity than yesterday," which is a part of that, but also a little bit of a nuance, which I love, but yeah, man, progressive overload, king in everything.

   2. JAJamie Alderton30:31

      Yeah, and you know, I, a lot of things that I used to do, it's just because, you know, it's very easy to be consistent with things that you enjoy doing 'cause you become more motivated, and I think one of the biggest things that happened with... You know, a lot of people would say to me, "Oh, you know, how did you deal with lockdown?" And I'm like, "Well, I think you go through different phases." But also, you know, I kind of started in a really euphoric mood and it kind of went down a bit and then it went back up. As-

   3. CWChris Williamson31:00

      Why were you so euphoric at the start?

   4. JAJamie Alderton31:02

      Because, um, being a- being a soldier...... a, an ex-soldier. When lockdown happened, I kind of switched gears into there's gonna be a lot of people that need my help. Um, this shit's easy for me. You know, doing six-month tour of, uh, Baghdad. We were, you know, sleeping in a, a, in a tiny little porter cabin with six other lads for six months, with mortars dropping left, right, and center of us every single day. I'm like, "This is nothing." I'm sitting in my house with Netflix, with, with high speed, um, broadband. I live 15 minutes from the beach and I'm allowed to go for a sea dip in the morning. I'm fucking good, but I know a lot of people who need my help now. And, and that's why I was in there like, "Oh, this is the only time where I feel that the world has slowed down and I can kind of g- get ahead a little bit." And I, and I did, but one of the mistakes I think I made is that I did... And I'm only kinda coming out now, is the fact that I, I was getting back into those habits of doing too much. Not having a day off, um, ultra productive, and kind of being very selfless to the wrong people, and not selfish to the right people. Um, and I learned a lot from 2016 in doing that, so I saw the commonalities between that and kind of was like, "Whoa. Hang on a minute there, Jay. The, there's lots of opportunities here, but don't, but don't forget why you're doing all this for, and it's for, for a better life for your family, not just for you." So, it kind of like backed off a little bit. Drink... I, I, I was drinking quite heavily as well. I, I'm a big dr- I mean, I, I... Ex-squaddy's always a drinker. There's always an excuse to get drunk. Um, but I've kind of... Probably a month before... Probably, no, more than that. About six, seven weeks ago, I was just like, "No. Stop this, Jay. Focus on your fitness. Focus on your health. And you, you're so much better at what it is that you do w- when you're sober. You know, when you're not having a few drinks." And it's very easy. Like, we talk about habits. You know, having a few beers at night makes you feel awesome. It does, 'cause you don't really wake up with that much of a hangover. Um, I get quite creative after a glass of wine as well. I very much like when the missus is out, having a bottle of Malbec to myself and a good book, 'cause then I fill out three... Uh, I fill out, like, three or four pages of notepad. And sometimes that can be a bad justification for doing something that, you know... You e- you end up having a bottle and then you adapt to that. And then it g- it's not a bottle on a Friday night, it's a bottle three times a week. And then it's like bottle... Ah, yeah, b- a bottle every night and... If you can clang on... You know, if you can clamber onto a justification for it that it's productive, then you can keep that habit, and you allow yourself and... Something that I learned a lot about my own habits is just because you can, doesn't mean you should. And I remember reading an article about high, um... So, you h- hear the word functioning alcoholic. People who can still just about do their job and function as, as one. And I remember reading this book about high performance, um, function- high performance functioning alcoholics, and these are athletes. You know, these are Ironman athletes and people who are literally alcoholics, but also they're just gifted in what they do and it doesn't affect them. And, uh, and it made me ponder as well. I'm not an Ironman. I'm not an ultra marathon runner and this, but I get where their tendencies come from because the- there's no negative feedback loop in what it is that they're doing, and sometimes you need to actually just say to yourself, "Fucking stop." Uh, and that's the hardest thing to do when there's noth- there's no cue to say that this is detrimental. And I, I found that with a lot of things, especially with my fat loss, 'cause I've been training from the age of 13. Um, it doesn't take me long to get back in shape. You know, I say t- say to people, "Six weeks of tracking macros and that, and I, I'll be on the front cover of Muscle & Fitness." Uh, because that's what I did for six weeks (laughs) before, before actually being on there. But that's what happens when you've been weight training for 22 years. You develop a decent amount of muscle tissue and habits during that time, so it's a lot easier to do. You know, you just stop drinking on the weekends, and, uh, increase your output, and, you know, stop eating Maccy D's three times a week and there you go. So, I always have to kinda check myself before I wreck myself with these things. And that's one thing that I found, that level of self-awareness i- is key, not just to myself, but to everyone, 'cause no one's... Like, I, I, I've said for the last five years, "Write shit down," but people still don't. And it's some... It's a practice which I think every single person should do to get that stuff out of your head, onto a piece of paper, makes such a difference. And this is why, you're just looking here, I've got three whiteboards and I can just see three notepads with different things on my desk for di- for different, for different reasons. So I've got a pondering notepad, I've got a, a notes notepad, and I've got an education one which I make notes on for, um, stuff that I wanna progress in my business.

   5. CWChris Williamson36:13

      A lot that you've covered there is stuff that everyone listening will be familiar with. I'm a huge advocate of sobriety e- as a productivity tool. Uh, I'm a club promoter by trade, so I've watched millions of people going to nightclubs, um, but found a few years ago that if I went sober, I had more time, money, and calories to spend on things that I care about. So again, if the people listening haven't got bored of me saying it already, sobriety is a wonderful productivity tool. You're looking at someone who has a lot of different, uh, plates to continue spinning and Jamie appears to have f- have you gone full sobriety now? Just absolutely no f-

   6. JAJamie Alderton36:44

      No, uh, to be honest-

   7. CWChris Williamson36:44

      ... weekend only? What's the rule that you went for?

   8. JAJamie Alderton36:47

      Um, I've, I've toyed with the idea 'cause I think I said to myself, "What would be the hardest thing for you to do?" And I was like, "Don't drink for a year." And, and, and I've, I've said to myself, "Look, having a drink is a fundamental part of my life." And, and people could argue that it's not, but I genuinely enjoy it when it's... You know?If you're per- I've- I've always been a fan of reduce or remove. And I can genuinely, and I have done for, for a long time, to have routines and rituals in my head that gets results. And saying to myself, not drinking on a school night, which is Monday to Fri-, well, Monday to Thursday. And no more than, like, a bottle of wine with the missus. Or if you're gonna go out, one gin and tonic or two gi- and having these kind of, if I'm getting in shape for three months, you're not allowed to get drunk. You're allowed to get tipsy but not drunk, and that's maximum two drinks. And that mean- that gives me the, the benefit of it, but none of the disadvantages. So, if you're able to do that, then yes. And if you're not, and you know, s- I- I've had these le- these moments, then you need to go to extremes to do it. There's an interesting, um, interview I saw of Richard Branson, um, and he was talking about alcohol. And he said when he's had a, when he's been, you know, drunk a bit too much and he's been a bit hungover, he instantly ha- has no alcohol for 12 weeks because it makes him realize, someone in his position, just doesn't make sense to be unproductive for a day. Because that, that to him at his level affects so many more people. You know, it affects others' lives 'cause his decision, his decisions, you know, he's putting up bloody rockets to Mars for Christ's sake. Uh, so, you know, when you start thinking about others for that, it gives you motivation to, to kinda stop and... Yeah, it's always been a- an interesting one for me, um, alcohol, because, you know, a lot of it comes, comes from a military background. I do have a, you know, me and the missus do enjoy a bottle of wine on the weekend and, you know, I'm a big fan of gin. But it's, yeah, I think it's so important to notice your bad habits too. Um, and I would say, like, if I was to say, "Right, what are your, you know, worst habits, Jamie?" And I'd say, like, definitely alcohol is one of them, most certainly. Um, impatience with others probably another one. Um, and I think what Stoicism has, has taught me is the ability to control what you can control and let go of things that you can't. Um, so that's always a thing which is a narrative in my head, what I do i- you know, when I'm starting to feel frustrated 'cause someone hasn't done something or got back to me which has affected my own thing, I'm like, "Well, is, is it that important, Jamie?" And the answer's usually no. So it's the, I think it's he's m- it's he for us, it's he's, he's pulling these different mental models in your life to be able to perform and understand, you know, your own life and your own progress.

   9. CWChris Williamson39:51

      I think that would be an interesting challenge for you to do. I think six months of sobriety would be, uh, an interesting eye-opening experience for you two-

   10. JAJamie Alderton40:01

       Yeah, I mean-

   11. CWChris Williamson40:01

       ... for you to go through.

   12. JAJamie Alderton40:02

       I mean, I've done six and eight months before because of competing.

   13. CWChris Williamson40:05

       Ah, yeah, of course.

   14. JAJamie Alderton40:06

       Um, 'cause as s- yeah, s- soon as I, I compete, that's it. I, th- I do not have alcohol. You know, it's a, it's a s- it's literally a, a switch-

   15. CWChris Williamson40:14

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JAJamie Alderton40:15

       ... and it's done. And I am that kind of person that will just go, "Right. Done." But if it's not for an outcome-based reason, this is what I need to cha- kind of really do some work on and challenge myself.

   17. CWChris Williamson40:28

       Yes.

   18. JAJamie Alderton40:29

       Because yes, okay, there are sacrifices in, but to be honest, what you're saying to, you know, in certain situations, I mean, what you're saying is that you can't enjoy the environment that you're in without it, and it's like, well, you can do, you've just gotta change your mindset around what it is that you're trying to get as an outcome from it.

   19. CWChris Williamson40:43

       Are you listening everyone? Are you listening to the same words I've been saying for the last three years coming out of Jamie Olden's mouth?

   20. JAJamie Alderton40:50

       (laughs)

   21. CWChris Williamson40:50

       Yeah, man, abs- absolutely. Alcohol is a social performance enhancing drug and without the, um, without a concentrated period where you're forced to do the things that you usually do with alcohol without alcohol, you'll never develop that confidence to go up and speak to that girl, the ability to be, to feel like you are as interesting, extroverted, capable of dealing with a boring situation. Like, you don't realize that your friends, a big group of your friends, you're only friends with them because you get pissed together. Like, uh, it's one of these things and I think that kind of removing that veil, it'll be interesting to see where your internal work goes with that, man. I will be, I'll be really, really interested to see sort of what, what that journey goes through and I think as well, not having the goal. Like, when you were going through full monk mode and you're like, "Right, no cake," sniffing cake, and, um, "No alcohol," and this, that and the other, it's a very different pathway to, "I'm going to do this for the reason that I want to see what life is like without it," and et cetera, et cetera. So, yeah-

   22. JAJamie Alderton41:51

       Yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson41:51

       ... that'll be, that'll be an interesting one. But so th- the, um, the alcohol thing was, w- was an interesting, uh, part that you brought up there, and then just breaking stuff down, man, you know, breaking things down into small manageable chunks. Um, I wonder, as your sort of fitness journey and business journey and stuff like that now continues to mature, what do you think's next? Have you got your next big, um, charity event thing organized? You got any ideas what that might be?

   24. JAJamie Alderton42:22

       So this, this year has been a rest, rest year from that and then next year I'm focused on something. Um, and I've kinda set the bar with the box jump. Uh, I was looking at a few things. There, there was... I- I'll, I'll say one because it's not gonna happen.

   25. CWChris Williamson42:38

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JAJamie Alderton42:40

       Um, I wa- I watched a documentary on Captain Webb who was one of the first per- person to breaststroke the, um-

   27. CWChris Williamson42:47

       (laughs)

   28. JAJamie Alderton42:47

       ... the, the English Channel back in 19-

   29. CWChris Williamson42:50

       So (laughs) am I right in saying the reason that he did breaststroke was because-

   30. JAJamie Alderton42:54

       It was ung- it was ungentlemanly to do-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Gotta push it a…

   1. JAJamie Alderton45:00

      f- um, ponder and plan for the next year, so there'll be something that comes into my head then. It has to be some- i- i- it has to be something that someone says that can't be done, um, and I think, you know, if I was to say, "I'm going to put a rickshaw to London," I think most people would think I could do it, which means I shouldn't do it.

   2. CWChris Williamson45:16

      Gotta push it a little bit further, right? Gotta come up with-

   3. JAJamie Alderton45:18

      S-

   4. CWChris Williamson45:18

      ... something a little bit more ludicrous.

   5. JAJamie Alderton45:19

      (laughs) Yeah, yeah, so we'll, we'll see. I mean, I've got over 18 months to kind of figure it out, um, so whatever, whatever it will be, it will be.

   6. CWChris Williamson45:28

      That's cool, man. Looping back to the journey through fitness and this kind of... I'm really interested in this dynamic between the externalized, socialized measures of success and the internalized fulfilling measures of success. What would you say to some of the people that are listening perhaps who are still, um, very heavily attaching their sel- sense of identity and their sense of self-worth to their condition? Are there any sort of, um, light bulb moments that happened for you or anything that you... any sort of lessons that you'd pass on to those people?

   7. JAJamie Alderton46:01

      Yeah, no one cares. No one cares at all.

   8. CWChris Williamson46:07

      (laughs)

   9. JAJamie Alderton46:07

      Imagine, if you will, that you can't swim, and I've chucked you in the deep end, and all you're doing is flapping your arms trying to get breath. Now imagine 7.5 billion people doing that metaphorically every single day. Your wants and needs are your wants and needs. Everybody else has got so much shit in their life that even if you were a passing thought, you'll be sl- you'll be quickly forgotten with the amount of problems that that person has to solve each day. So if you're hindering yourself based on the things that other people who aren't even considering you are thinking, then you're doing yourself a disservice, because no one cares, and that has enabled me to completely change my view of doing things, because I do it for me, not anybody else. And the reason that I do these things is to explore myself, not what other people's opinions are of me, because they don't matter, because they don't care, 'cause it's a passing thought.

   10. CWChris Williamson47:10

       We would care far less about what other people think about us if we realized how infrequently they do.

   11. JAJamie Alderton47:16

       Yeah. E- exactly. And, and, um, I very much love a lot of the stoic philosophies with things, um, and the view from above is always a great one where you kind of view... You know, you, you, you lie down and you kind of look up 100 feet in the air, and then you look at what you can see, and then you go 1,000 feet in the air, and then you go 2,000 miles above, and then you go to the next galaxy and you realize you're, you're fuck-all. You're a speck of dust which is gone in a second. So if you are, you know, having those doubts and thoughts and fears which are hindering you, it adds to that it doesn't care, because you're gone in, you're gone in a bleep. So just make the most of it.

   12. CWChris Williamson48:04

       So what should people spend their time on if they're not spending their time on, on the things that other people, that they think other people are bothered about? What should they spend their time doing?

   13. JAJamie Alderton48:12

       Things that give you happiness and fulfillment. Um, fulfillment is come from progress, becoming a better version of yourself, making mistakes and fuck-ups and failures, being able to do things which you ne- you couldn't fathom that you could do before and you can do now, um, doing difficult things, and also doing things regardless of how you feel, because the outcome is more important. Um, focusing on those things ha- have made me very content and happy, because-

   14. CWChris Williamson48:45

       And also doing, doing things for other people as well, as you mentioned before.

   15. JAJamie Alderton48:49

       And I think that's the thing. Um, I love the quote, "Give and forget, receive and remember." I think with, with business and marketing, everyone understands the reciprocity. You, you, you scratch my back and one, you know, you'll scratch yours, but I think the people who make a difference is th- they're basically back scratchers. They don't want their back scratched. They just wanna give out good things to the world. And it's rare to find those people, um, but when you do, make sure that you're mates with them, 'cause they don't want... You know, something I say to a lot of my friends, you know, they'll... I do a lot of things for people and they're like, "What do you want?" I'm like, "Look-... I'm good. If I want something, yeah, I will ask you directly for it, but I'm good. I can figure out, you know, I prefer to figure it out for myself and if I need a little nudge, just point me in the right direction, um, 'cause it, you know, it feels good to do... You know, when you've got skills and talents that help other people, you get such a selfish benefit from it that they don't know about. It's-

   16. CWChris Williamson49:45

       It's the oddly circular thing of doing things for the people that it's very much for yourself. There's a study that says it's a 10X return giving a gift as opposed to buying it for yourself. If you spend a pound on yourself, it's the equivalent as, uh, in spending a pound on someone else, it's like spending 10 on you. Um, and yeah, it is, it is bizarre that the most selfish thing you can do is be selfless.

   17. JAJamie Alderton50:10

       Yeah, and, and it's so counterintuitive, you know, if I have a, a coach or that that's been struggling that's suddenly picked up few hundred clients and their business has doubled, um, and now they can take their wife and kid on holiday or they could... You know, and it's just like, that's what it's all about. Um, for me, you know, that's transitioning the B2B market with helping people and that's a strange market to be in because, you know, everyone on surface level looks like they, they're wanting to do the same things for people, but they-

   18. CWChris Williamson50:40

       You're building a business of competitors, yeah.

   19. JAJamie Alderton50:42

       Yeah, and it's just like, well, uh, that's what it's all about. You know, there's a great book, uh, The Go-Giver, which I love, um, and it has a huge business narrative in that about that. Look, it doesn't matter if they're competitors, you know, if you're good and you're even, as a competitor, patting them on the back, they'll always remember that if they're the right person that you mentored. So, that's all good, you know, success breeds success and if you're not caught up by it or intimidated by it, everybody wins. And it's having that mentality, um, and practicing that and listening to your own thoughts and feelings about others as well. So, I'm very much motivated by envy. Um, I think envy can be a help and a hindrance in life where you see things other people want and you want them for yourselves and I think the mistake that a lot of people make is that they're looking at materialistic things rather than kind of holistic things. Um, I had someone say to me, "Oh, so-and-so is doing so well, you know, s- all these clients, he's on all these things." I'm like, "Well, in order for you to have what they have, you..." Uh, and this comes from Naval Ravikant actually, "In order for you to have what that person has, you need to completely change your life." And I said to my friend, "Well, you've got two kids and a wife. In order for you to have what that person has, you have to give them up too, because you can't just pick the things that you want from that person, you've got to pick the life." And when you realize that, it's like, it allows you to think the things that you do have because I think when you're envious about a person, you're just focused on one variable without the entire package that comes with that. And that's-

   20. CWChris Williamson52:14

       You don't know what the, you don't know what the price is, man. I did... I wrote an entire article around that one quote from Naval on, uh, the Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish, "You cannot take part of someone's life, you have to take the whole." You don't know what the price is to be Elon Musk.

   21. JAJamie Alderton52:29

       Yeah.

   22. CWChris Williamson52:29

       You don't know if he's disgusted when he looks in the mirror, if he can't go to bed at night, if he's got rampant erectile dysfunction, if he doesn't have a relationship with his father where he can't speak to him. You don't... Like, you love the idea of being Conor McGregor, but do you want to spend years and years rolling the same techniques and throwing the same combinations whilst living in your parents', like, attic in Ireland? You want to be that Instagram influencer, but do you really... Do you know what they're like? Like, what if they haven't had an orgasm in months? What if they can't bear to eat food without feeling sick about themselves? What if they're terrified that they've leveraged their entire sense of self-worth to outsource to a bunch of people who they don't even know on the internet? Like, all of these things are the unseen prices that you would have to pay to be that person. You can't just have Elon Musk's work ethic and his, and his money, you have to take the entire package.

   23. JAJamie Alderton53:17

       Yep.

   24. CWChris Williamson53:17

       And I think realizing that, it's, uh, b- interested about what you said about envy there, about how it's useful. I certainly find myself now being envious of, uh, perhaps your ability to deal with discomfort, uh, your ability to, um, be resilient to, uh, uh, uh, setbacks and h- have that third-party perspective. That's the sort of thing that I, I agree there is a, a degree of envy, um, where it can be useful.

   25. JAJamie Alderton53:43

       It, it's the right, it's the right thing to be envious of, not a Ferrari or a house or, you know, how many followers you have, and I think that's... Understanding w- you know, like, why, why are you envious about that thing, you know? And it's... A lot of the things that people are envious about is of having that thing of how it looks to other people, and it comes back to that thing of you're trying to impress people that don't care-

   26. CWChris Williamson54:07

       (laughs)

   27. JAJamie Alderton54:07

       ... and don't, and they don't, and you don't actually like, you know? And-

   28. CWChris Williamson54:13

       How much of that... So how much of that realization is just getting older?

   29. JAJamie Alderton54:17

       I, I, do you know, I, I, I think it's, it's this, it's this kind of thing, I think it's that realization that... You know, like, I, I started on TikTok last year and I didn't realize I was old until I joined TikTok.

   30. CWChris Williamson54:28

       (laughs)
5. 1:00:00 – 1:03:50

   I think that's a…

   1. JAJamie Alderton1:00:00

      just shutting up and listening to people, um, and I wish I kn- I wish I knew that at school. That's... You know?

   2. CWChris Williamson1:00:08

      I think that's a byproduct of the curiosity as well, man. Uh, I really do. Um, the genuine hunger, the desire to find out wh- why or what or how or who, like that a- actual genuine desire is so unique and so powerful, and it sounds... It's like the pithiest fucking most, like, wanky quote in the world to say something like that, but it genuinely, genuinely is. And (laughs) you take it back to, like, your mum and dad saying, "Well, you've got two ears and one mouth for a reason." And you're like, "Oh God, parents were always right," like, i- in one-

   3. JAJamie Alderton1:00:45

      Yeah.

   4. CWChris Williamson1:00:45

      ... way or another, weren't they?

   5. JAJamie Alderton1:00:47

      Yeah, e- exactly, and, it... I think a lot of things all gear back to a, a very few amount of fundamentals and it's just... As with anything, you know, there's... What we understand when it comes to fitness and fat loss, it just comes down to eating less than you burn if you want to lose weight, but just understand that there's many different ways of being able to achieve that. And I think, you know, when you discover what the fundamental of happiness is, then there's many different ways to achieve it, um, but there's so many people saying, "Oh, this, that and the other," and it all comes from finding people that you listen to and, and, and, you know, understand quotes. You know, people say, "Oh, it's so cliche, this and that," I'm like, "Yeah, but it's... If it works for you, then, then do it," um, and everyone...You know, I live my life through analogies and quotes. That's how my brain functions, through parables and stories. Because any part of my life that I'm struggling with, I'll have found a parable to answer it. Um, and that's why I love books like Chicken Soup for the Soul with, by Jack Canfield, um, and, uh, and a lot of other, um, very much the old ones that you hear at school, you know, Aesop's Fables. Some of those are probably the key fundamentals of life, especially the, The Tortoise and the Hare. You know, that just solidifies James Clear's Atomic Habits book. You know?

   6. CWChris Williamson1:02:06

      (laughs) Aesop, Aesop was James Clear before James Clear was James Clear.

   7. JAJamie Alderton1:02:10

      (laughs)

   8. CWChris Williamson1:02:11

      Couldn't, couldn't agree more, man. Like, we, we're symbolic beings, right? Uh, Jordan Peterson, when I went to go see him live, he said, "Why does Thomas the Tank Engine need a face?"

   9. JAJamie Alderton1:02:18

      (laughs)

   10. CWChris Williamson1:02:18

       Like, he's a ta- he's a tank engine. Why do you need to personify this tank engine? It's because we, we personify everything in life, you know? You give your car, like, a personality. "Oh, she's a bit this today. She's got these little quirks." It's like it is-

   11. JAJamie Alderton1:02:32

       Yeah.

   12. CWChris Williamson1:02:32

       ... it is, by its very nature, an inanimate machine. Um-

   13. JAJamie Alderton1:02:35

       Yeah, and people put, people put fucking eyelashes on cars.

   14. CWChris Williamson1:02:38

       (laughs) Have you done that?

   15. JAJamie Alderton1:02:39

       Uh, no. I, like, it's one of my trigger points.

   16. CWChris Williamson1:02:43

       (laughs) Do you feel very strongly about this?

   17. JAJamie Alderton1:02:46

       I feel incredibly strongly about putting eyelashes on cars. It's one of ... That and Android phones are my, uh, non-negotiables.

   18. CWChris Williamson1:02:52

       Oh, we are, you are friends here. You are among-

   19. JAJamie Alderton1:02:56

       (laughs) Good.

   20. CWChris Williamson1:02:56

       You are among friends here.

   21. JAJamie Alderton1:02:57

       Good.

   22. CWChris Williamson1:02:58

       Uh, dude, this has been awesome. Thank you so much for your time. What do you ... Where should people go? They wanna, they wanna find out more about you or they wanna check out your products? Where, where do you wanna plug?

   23. JAJamie Alderton1:03:06

       I would, I would say the best place to go is just, um, head on over to Instagram, @jayalderton. I post most of my stuff there. I get back to most of my messages. So, um, you know, if you are listening to this and something resonated with you, uh, I'd love to hear what it was.

   24. CWChris Williamson1:03:21

       Unreal, man. Thank you so much for your time. Everything we've gone through will be linked in the show notes below. I'll try and find the article that I was talking about to do with Naval Ravikant's Jealousy, and obviously, Jay's fantastic Insta will be linked there as well. For now, man, thank you.

   25. JAJamie Alderton1:03:34

       Chris, thank you.

   26. CWChris Williamson1:03:37

       (singing) Love wins. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Love wins.

Episode duration: 1:03:51