Modern WisdomMen Are Taking More Viagra Than Ever - Zack Telander
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
135 min read · 26,826 words- 0:00 – 1:55
Intro
- CWChris Williamson
According to one 2018 study, around half of British men in their 30s report difficulties getting or maintaining an erection. This is only going to get worse, I think, with Gen Z because the most socially anxious generation that we've ever had, highest rates of introversion, social anxiety disorders, and stuff like that. Getting naked with somebody, you know, that's gonna push a lot of people's buttons. (wind blowing) Zach Tellander, welcome to the show.
- ZTZack Telander
I'm here.
- CWChris Williamson
We're both here.
- ZTZack Telander
Again. And, uh, every time I'm on your show, I'm closer to you.
- CWChris Williamson
So, for the people who aren't aware, we live together, and you are sat on the other side of that wall-
- ZTZack Telander
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... because (laughs) I don't have an in-person recording setup. So we're doing it this way, which is virtually, but also kind of in-person, and we can kind of hear each other through the doors.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, that's the most concerning part is I can hear you through the door-
- CWChris Williamson
Twice.
- ZTZack Telander
... and through my headphones but, but it's all good.
- CWChris Williamson
Double.
- ZTZack Telander
It's all good, baby.
- CWChris Williamson
Double cress. How we doing? You good?
- ZTZack Telander
I'm good, man. I'm good. Had a good week so far. Good content. Uh, I don't know, man. So much has happened since I was last on the show, but it's hard to know exactly what has happened because-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- ZTZack Telander
... you and I live together, so. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Talking about it all the time.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, I can't really update you, but, uh, yeah, still doing the same thing. You're doing the same thing even better, better and brighter, bigger, bigger guests, and also being on Joe Rogan, too. Massive.
- CWChris Williamson
That was wild, wild experience. Yeah, man. Absolutely wild. Uh, it, it's been strange. I mean, it's the number one podcast in America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and England, or the UK at the moment. It's the number one podcast episode in all of those places, which is, uh, is just a terrifying amount.
- ZTZack Telander
No way.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
Wow.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a number one-
- ZTZack Telander
That's 'cause I shared it.
- CWChris Williamson
You think?
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
I got you the most shared tag on Spotify.
- CWChris Williamson
Good. I'm glad.
- ZTZack Telander
So-
- 1:55 – 9:59
Brittney Griner’s Sentence
- ZTZack Telander
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, other things that have been happening in countries outside of ours, WNBA star Brittney Griner sentenced to nine years in Russian prison.
- ZTZack Telander
So I, I saw that. I didn't really dive deep into that. Um, but does that mean that she still can't get extradited or traded for?
- CWChris Williamson
So this is the most recent update. This is from Daily Wire. "WNBA star Brittney Griner was sentenced to nine years in a Russian prison on Thursday. Russian prosecutors had argued that Griner, who was convicted of sneaking marijuana vaping materials into the country, should serve nine and a half years in prison." So she saved half a year, I guess. "The request came during closing arguments in a court outside Moscow, nearly six months after the six-foot-nine-inch WNBA star was nabbed in airport with contraband. The US has been trying to negotiate her release, reportedly considering offering a notorious Russian arms dealer imprisoned here as a trade." So I'm not sure if that guy is maybe gonna, uh, be swapped out for her or something, but it's a difficult situ- I mean, do you want to let a notorious Russian arms dealer go? No. Do you want a WNBA star that had a vape cartridge on her get jailed for nine years in a Russian gulag? Also no. Kind of, kind of hard to s- s- thread the needle. "'I never meant to hurt anybody, and I never, uh, meant to put in jeopardy the Russian population. I never meant to break any laws here,' Griner said prior to the delivery of the verdict in Khimki City Courthouse. 'I made an honest mistake, and I hope that your ruling, that in your ruling it doesn't end my life here. I know everybody keeps talking about political porn and politics, but I hope that is far from this courtroom.'" Uh, blah, blah, blah. She said that she only brought them to Russia by mistake, only used kind of... This is it. "Griner, who plays for the WNBA's Phoenix Mercury, had flown to Russia to finish a season for UMMC Ekaterinburg when she was arrested. Team competes." So she was over there playing, dude. Can you imagine accidentally having or even on purpose thinking, "Oh, I can fly a vape cartridge in," and then getting nine years in Russia? She's been there for six months already. She's already detained. Nine years in prison.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, so, uh, I think a, a lot of the WNBA stars, the best of the WNBA, they go to other countries to make more money. Uh, I think they, they pay athletes for, uh, for women's basketball and particularly a lot more. So, a lot of women do this. This is a very common practice. But this is also not just Russia that has rules like this. A lot of Middle, Middle Eastern countries. Doesn't Bali have like, uh, crazy drug rules as well? Like-
- CWChris Williamson
Thailand is death if you're caught with the wrong drug. I think they still have the death sentence for people that are caught with the wrong drug.
- ZTZack Telander
James was telling me about some guy who had some marijuana, and I think it was in Singapore. And, or I'm not entirely sure what country it was. I know it was Southeast Asia. And th- he had, uh, whipping. Like, they had to... They whipped him.
- CWChris Williamson
No fucking way. (laughs)
- ZTZack Telander
Like, uh, like-
- CWChris Williamson
No fucking way. (laughs)
- ZTZack Telander
... a certain amount of lashes, yes.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) What is this?
- ZTZack Telander
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Are we on a pirate ship?
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Is this, is this the 1700s? What's going on?
- ZTZack Telander
Dude, and then, um, he, he was telling me another story about how... Well, he, he had a bunch of stories about this, uh, because he's covered it a lot. But there was a guy who, he was a, a football coach, so soccer coach. And he, um, he was taking his buddy to the airport, okay, uh, in, I think it was Dubai or something. And his buddy messaged him on WhatsApp saying, "Hey, by the way, I have a CBD pen that I left in your car." And the authorities, uh, were able to hack that message and arrested him. Like, they, they, they stopped his car, took him out of there, found the CBD or whatever, and I think he's rotting in jail.
- CWChris Williamson
Where's that?
- ZTZack Telander
I, I, I think this one is a Middle Eastern country.
- CWChris Williamson
Right. Okay. So-
- ZTZack Telander
But, again, I'm not entirely sure what the... He said it was like a, a football coach or something like that.
- CWChris Williamson
D- Dubai and the United Arab Emirates is somewhere you do not want to get caught with drugs.
- ZTZack Telander
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
So I remember reading this story a few years ago about a guy that had a trace amount of marijuana on the bottom of his shoe.... on the bottom of his shoe. So, he'd stood in maybe some marijuana. Maybe it was his, maybe it wasn't. He was jailed for that. I've got another, uh, news story here, which is from April 2021. "American facing years in Dubai prison after cannabis traces found in urine. A man who legally enjoyed some cannabis in his home of Las Vegas is now facing three years in prison in the United Arab Emirates after being caught with traces of it in his urine. Peter Clark flew to Dubai on February 24th on a business trip, looking for a recording studio. The retired game designer then went to hospital following a pancreatitis attack."
- ZTZack Telander
Oh.
- CWChris Williamson
"He was reported to authorities when doctors found hashish traces in his urine, which is considered possession in the UAE."
- ZTZack Telander
Oh, my God. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- ZTZack Telander
Oh, my God. That is insane. That's, that is insane. That's crazy, dude. Medic- medic- you, they were probably forced to do that, right? It wasn't like... Like, it's part of their job, I'm sure.
- CWChris Williamson
I think they'll probably be-
- 9:59 – 22:59
Why Young Men are Turning to Viagra
- CWChris Williamson
something else I wanted to talk to you about is, uh, "Why young men are turning to Viagra: 'I was really struggling to get it up.' More men in their 20s and 30s are taking little blue pills for a variety of sexual ills, from erectile dysfunction to anxiety about their performance in the bedroom. Ben Bryant speaks to users, doctors, and relationship counselors about a very cr- curious phenomenon." This is on The Independent. And we spoke about this last time, one of the previous episodes that you've been on. We were talking about, um, girls having anxiety around not being able to orgasm during sex and, like, performance anxiety during. Guys' equivalent of that is not getting it up. And-
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, and also, how many commercials do we have now where you can just get Viagra sent to you? Right? You, you, you, uh, kinda do, you... I don't know if anyone's done these before. Um, I've had sponsorships like Keeps, where you get, put in touch with a doctor, the doctor fills out a prescription, and you get it sent to your house. And, and that can happen in, like, within a half hour.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, remember that you can get over-the-counter Viagra. You don't need to have the consultation with the doctor, and this is actually one of the things that comes out of this-
- ZTZack Telander
Really?
- CWChris Williamson
... this news story. Yeah, you can just buy them over-the-counter. I mean, Blue Chew, right? Blue Chew is Viagra chewing gum, I think. Uh, they actually asked to sponsor the podcast, and I was... They're not quite right, I don't think. (laughs) Uh, but he was saying, um, "After a breakup from a five-year relationship, James was nervous about dating again. He was 27, healthy, and had a good sex life. But when it came to sleeping with new people, he was experiencing performance anxiety. 'I was really struggling to get it up. I got to this point where I was having sex with lots of people with like a 75% error rate.' James assumed that the problem was just nerves. He didn't seek advice from his GP. Instead, he started self-medicating with sildénafil, better known as Viagra. It worked instantly. When you take it, you can actually focus on enjoying sex and being in the moment as opposed to going, 'Oh my God, my dick is failing.' No, no, don't stop, keep going." (laughs) This is... Like, that's, that is exactly what your mind says.
- ZTZack Telander
(laughs) Exactly.
- CWChris Williamson
But for the girls that are listening, the fear that you have as a guy, as you notice that that's slowly creeping in, is just this downward spiral of... And as you focus on it, that is exactly the, the first thing that's gonna cause it to go away.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, I mean, uh, I'm not gonna lie, Christopher. It has happened to me-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- ZTZack Telander
... for sure.... uh, I have, uh, I have been in that situation, usually when I'm ... been drinking a little bit. And sometimes, you know, in the past, I have said, "This is just not gonna happen." And it's actually much more of a relief then to just say that. Just, it's not gonna happen-
- CWChris Williamson
It's not tonight.
- ZTZack Telander
... not tonight.
- CWChris Williamson
Not tonight, darling, I'm afraid. Yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, I mean, it, it's very difficult for girls to not feel like they've done something wrong. It's like that, that whole scenario is just a, i- i- it's just a litany of embarrassment and men feeling pretty ashamed of themselves, right? Like, it's the one thing that you're supposed to always be able to do. There's an expectation, I think, by society that men should be hot to trot all the time-
- ZTZack Telander
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... that they should always be ready for sex and wanting sex. And, you know, th- the same is not expected of women. Now, there's other things that are expected of women which, you know, like to be able to orgasm during sex, and to be casual, and all this sort of stuff. But it's pretty uncomfortable. There was a period while I was in uni, and, uh, if ... Looking back now, it was so obvious. I'd had too much to drink. I hadn't been able to get it up when I was drunk. Then I had a fear that that was going to creep in when I was sober. And over time, it did. So, I'd managed to think myself into-
- ZTZack Telander
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... performance anxiety. Physiologically, absolutely fine. Training in the gym, gaining loads of weight-
- ZTZack Telander
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... health- relatively healthy, as healthy as a 21-year-old club promoter can be. Um, and what I did, how I fixed it, was I started to, uh, taper down a dose of Viagra during normal sex. So I would start-
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... with a half, and then less, and then less, and then less. And over time you realize, uh, I'm, like, licking the outer coating of this.
- ZTZack Telander
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
This is evidently not doing anything, and you go, "I'm, I'm coming back." But i- it was all about performance anxiety, and it's, it's brutal, man.
- ZTZack Telander
Uh, my theory, a lot of it has to do with masturbation and the prevalence of it in young men. I think, like, y- it's something that definitely cannot be ignored, right? Like, you find a way to self-stimulate. I think Huberman talked about this on your podcast. You recently made a post about it. Uh, and, and I think that that's gotta be undeniable, right? Like, the, the getting used to s- watching other people for arousal, being in the comfort of your own home, you know, having your setup, you know? (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Your playlists and your suggested videos on ******.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, getting the, getting the right video, you know, all of that-
- CWChris Williamson
(clears throat)
- ZTZack Telander
... that factors into somebody being like, "Well, you know, I might not have that when I'm with a girl. There's different situations that can happen. I'm not used to this person." What I have found is, whatever that anxiety is, it dissipates the more comfortable you get with that woman.
- 22:59 – 26:50
Addison Rae’s Blasphemous Bikini
- CWChris Williamson
Addison Rae deletes blasphemous Holy Trinity bikini photo after backlash. Did you see this?
- ZTZack Telander
Yep, saw it.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. So, "TikTok star Addison Rae on Tuesday was hit with backlash for posting a blasphemous bikini that was Holy Trinity-themed, the Father on her right breast, Son on her left breast, and Holy Spirit on her bottom. Rae reportedly wore an Adidas Collaboration swimsuit, praying 'Holy Trinity' bikini in white, priced at $100. Uh, Instagram post showing off the bikini has been since deleted. Uh, 'This is disrespectful to Jesus,' 'Sad what y'all are doing for money,' one comment reportedly said. Another user adding, 'So messed up.' 'This is not okay.' 'Blasphemy,' someone wrote. 'Is nobody gonna talk about this disrespecting religions?' another user reacted. Um, 'Bikini blunder,' it's being called, and, 'Would she do it with Islam or Buddhism?' asked conservative beauty guru Amanda Ensing. Uh, former White House photographer Andrea Hanks commented, 'Any other faith and this would be an issue.' Tacky." One thing that's interesting is this is an issue. This isn't-
- ZTZack Telander
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... something where the Christian community has just rolled over and let this sort of stuff happen. So, saying, uh, "Any other faith and this would be an issue," kind of is a bit dumb, because it is an issue-
- ZTZack Telander
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... and it isn't any other faith.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah. Um, also, just to interject here, the sun should be over where the... You know what I mean? 'Cause it goes Father, Son down here.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh.
- ZTZack Telander
And she had "Father" and "Son" on the left and right breast. The sun should've been on the bikini bottom.
- CWChris Williamson
And "Holy Spirit" up top.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, but that would be weird though, right, to have a sun? (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Very weird. Very, very, very weird. What's she famous for? What's Addison Rae famous for?
- ZTZack Telander
Uh, Tik- TikTok. So, she does dances and she's, she's good-looking.
- CWChris Williamson
She was in a movie, right?
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, and I heard it was horrible.I heard-
- CWChris Williamson
It's-
- ZTZack Telander
... it was horrible. It was like a remake of-
- CWChris Williamson
It's got, like, 30% on, uh, Rotten Tomatoes.
- ZTZack Telander
Right. Yeah, but you know they made a ton of money on it just for the fact that she was in it. How many Gen Z kids watched it just to be like, "Oh, my God. That's Addison Rae," you know?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- ZTZack Telander
Um, but I- I- th- What's the company called that, that did it, that made the, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
Adidas.
- ZTZack Telander
It's called, like ... Oh, no, no. But I thought, I thought that they had done it ... Wasn't there another company that called, like, Prayer or something?
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, I'm not sure.
- ZTZack Telander
I just, I just saw a Phil- Philip DeFranco video on it.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh.
- ZTZack Telander
And, like, if you, if you look at their Instagram, they have a lot of, um, stuff exactly like this. I forget what it's called.
- CWChris Williamson
Interesting.
- ZTZack Telander
I just watched this. But yeah, I think this company ... I don't know if it was A- Adidas.
- 26:50 – 33:39
Demi Lovato’s Updated Pronouns
- CWChris Williamson
of people that have been using headlines to pump current albums and stuff like that, Demi Lovato has changed her pronoun, or she's added pronouns back in. Did you see this?
- ZTZack Telander
Yes, I did, and I didn't know that it had, that an album was coming out as well.
- CWChris Williamson
She's got an album coming out later this month and didn't really make many headlines, it doesn't see, but she, uh, she updated her pronouns. "Another day, another tiring pronoun debate. Pronouns are simple. They have been for centuries, and yet people are acting like they're a brand new concept," This is from The Daily Beast. It's very pro-, uh, Demi. "This time the hot-button topic is being discussed not because of some horrible remarks from bigoted poli- politicians or a terrible tweet from a certain she who will not be named TERF, uh, but because singer and performer Demi Lovato announced that she, uh, she is using" ... that, sorry, I- I- This is so hard to read. "Performer and Demi Lovato announced they are using she/her pronouns now-"
- ZTZack Telander
Oh, my god.
- CWChris Williamson
"... in addition to the they/them pronouns they already utilize. Lovato opened up about this in a recent development in her gender identity journey in an interview with The Spout podcast. 'Recently, I've been feeling more feminine, so I have adopted she/her again,' said Lovato. 'I'm such a fluid person.' Lovato came out as nonbinary in May 2021," blah, blah, blah, and then she reflected on coming out and said that she's now expanded w- "What have" (laughs) This is impossible to read. "Lovato reflected on this coming out journey and also explained why they are now expanding their pronouns to include she/her." But if she's used-
- ZTZack Telander
So if she did, then we can say she and her.
- CWChris Williamson
Apparent- I don't really understand at all. Lovato's-
- ZTZack Telander
That sentence doesn't make sense. If- Well, it- m- probably never did, but now we can say she and her, so stop saying they if you don't have to. I mean, you-
- CWChris Williamson
Look, Lovato's Instagram-
- ZTZack Telander
It's all-encompassing.
- CWChris Williamson
-bio has been updated to include all the pro- all their pronouns, they/them, she/her. What is so shocking about this? Gender identity, much like sexuality, can be a very fluid thing," blah, blah, blah. So, I am a- I've always ... I'm friends with Blair White. Like, I'm happy to call people by their preferred pronouns. There has to be an upper bound on how many times someone can cause headlines and change them and then there's a, a ton of outrage. "Misleading headlines" This is still in The Daily Beast article. "Misleading headlines about how Lovato reverted back to she/her pronouns" um, because people said that she'd stopped being they/them and was exclusively going to she/her, which isn't correct. Uh, The Daily Mail has got it incorrect and, uh, b- basically, people are being ... Th- this Daily Beast article is shouting at other coverage saying that, "You need to do better. You need to be able to understand this bigotry and there's social media chatter," and all this stuff, and you go, look, it's- it's really hard, and if someone's going to continue to update their pronouns, like, you have to actually ... She even says, "I understand that the world of pronouns can be a little bit difficult for people. We just have to hope that everybody's doing their best." And yet most of the people that are commenting about this are using it as a political football that they can kick around to say, "You're a bigot because you don't understand," what to me is another level of complexity on top of the pronoun thing.
- ZTZack Telander
So let's think about language for a second. Pronouns themselves are to make the language simpler, easier. I don't have to say Chris every time. I can say he. I can say him. It's a placeholder. And what you're doing is making something that's simple, you're making it much more confusing. Right? So even just a s- a minor amount of confusion is kind of a big deal in the English language because we don't know how to speak then, and what's really weird is that The Daily Beast says "they" and then calls her "she" and then also says that it's okay to call her "she" and "her," so w- what is ... like, what's going on? Like, what- what's the statement being made? Wh- So she wants to say that we can call her "she" now. Great.... but I don't understand how that fits into, to what we were doing prior.
- CWChris Williamson
I, I, I'm not under- I, I mean, it says here, "'I've actually adopted the pronoun she/her again,' she told the host on this podcast. 'So for me, I'm such a fluid person that I don't find that I am. I felt like, especially last year, my energy was balanced in my masculine and feminine energy, so when I was faced with the choice of walking into a bathroom and it said men, women and men, I didn't feel like there was a bathroom for me because I didn't necessarily feel like a woman and I didn't feel like a man. I just felt like a human. Recently, I've been feeling more feminine, so I've adopted she/her again,' she said, adding that the purpose of using they/them pronouns is about feeling human at your core. Uh, Lovato went on to assure others that nobody's perfect and everybody messes up pronouns at some point, and especially when people are learning, it's all just about respect." So, Demi Lovato seems completely fine with people trying their best to keep up with this stuff. There has to be an upper bound on how many... I mean, if she decides to add in more pronouns, is this, is there another wave of headlines that should come out, out about it? Should people be lambasted for not using... It, there's going to be more pronouns that you can use than can't use. Like, it's... I don't know. It, it's a very interesting-
- ZTZack Telander
I don't-
- CWChris Williamson
... situation to get into 'cause I've never... I don't think there's been a real public situation where somebody has added extra pronouns in now, and, uh, uh, I, I don't understand what the rules are supposed to be around this.
- ZTZack Telander
Well, I, I don't think there are rules, but I think that, again, I would agree with you in that I don't really care if somebody wants some sort of preferred pronouns. It's just going to be very difficult for me to unlearn years of speaking to people. Uh, if, if I misgender somebody, like, honestly, I will feel bad and I will try to actually call them what they want, but it's, it's much more difficult when you mix, mix in plurals. That's where, for me, that sentence that you were trying to read, that is, that's very frustrating. Right? I don't actually care that she... She can name herself whatever she wants, okay? But the moment that we start mixing in plurals and shit like that, that's where I start to be like, hey, this is, uh, this is kinda bullshit. 'Cause then, 'cause then I can't formulate a sentence properly without being like, ugh, I don't, I don't know what to do. And that's, that's ultimately-
- CWChris Williamson
This was-
- ZTZack Telander
... what I'm not a fan of.
- CWChris Williamson
Or- originally, I think this was what, um, Peterson was concerned about, whatever, back in 2015 or '16, that it was a way for people to enact power over others, that you can force other people to change their behavior based on a claim that you make. There's very few things that I can force you to do, right? Like, you could even walk into me if we were going down a corridor on the same side of the corridor. I don't even, I can't even force you to move. But by using this, that does give people the opportunity to have a little bit of power. But I don't know. It, it seems like it's just a str- a very, very strange situation. It's a very strange situation.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, speaking of strange situations,
- 33:39 – 42:25
Heated, Ableist Beyoncé Lyrics
- CWChris Williamson
Beyoncé, heated lyrics. You mentioned this to me, and I've gone and had a look. "Beyoncé's new album, Renaissance, has been met with overwhelmingly positive reviews, but the acclaimed singer faced backlash from activists after Friday's record-breaking release for a lyric deemed ableist. On the song Heat, which Britney co-wrote, uh, Beyoncé co-wrote with Drake, she sings, 'Spazzin' on that ass, spaz on that ass.'" (laughs)
- ZTZack Telander
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Bro, I tried to do, I tried to (laughs) I tried. Sorry, sorry. The word spaz is derogatory?
- ZTZack Telander
That's the first time I've heard the lyric. I knew it was spaz and it was-
- CWChris Williamson
Do you want me to give you, let me give you the full lyrics here, okay, so.
- ZTZack Telander
Well, it's about, it's ab- for, uh, it's, it's about, uh, spastic cerebral palsy, which is an actual term, right?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- ZTZack Telander
It's a... It- and is that now a term that we're not allowed to use?
- CWChris Williamson
Well-
- ZTZack Telander
Right? It's similar to-
- CWChris Williamson
... it's a very much a British thing, I think.
- ZTZack Telander
So, but saying someone is retarded, medically so, is actually not allowed even now.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- ZTZack Telander
Right? And I would- is, is the term spastic cerebral palsy, or how, however you say it, is that now in that same boat? That's just what I wanna clarify first.
- CWChris Williamson
So, medically, people, people would still be referred to as, um, whatever, retarded and, and spastic. That's, like, a medical diagnosis. The concern is when it becomes a pejorative, right, and people start using it as a slur. I think the-
- ZTZack Telander
I don't even know that they're allowed to medically say that anymore, uh, about retarded.
- CWChris Williamson
I'm pretty sure. Well, they definitely are around the, the spastic thing because the person that brought the term up is, m- like, self-referred as that, so-
- ZTZack Telander
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
... presumably, it is at least a little bit.
- ZTZack Telander
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
So, let me, let me give you some of the lyrics. "Bad, bad bitchy, make that bad bitch glitchy. Fine, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine. Liberated living like we ain't got time. Yada yada ya, yada yada ya ya, yada yada yada, bom bom ca ca. Spazzin' on that ass, spaz on that ass. Fan me girl, uh, fan me quick, girl, I need my glass. Fan me off, my wrist goes click. Dimples on my hips, stretch marks on my tits. Drinkin' my water, mindin' my biz. Monday, I'm overrated. Tuesday, on my dick." The worst thing about that, apparently, is the spaz.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, I have no idea... I feel like I just blacked out and I have no idea what you just said.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- ZTZack Telander
I have no idea what just happened. That was really, really weird. You know how you just kinda, like, space out while someone's talking? That's exactly what I just did to you. I, I apologize. But it was like, I was just hearing noises come out of your mouth, and in n- and in no way did they make sense at all. And suddenly, we care about the word spastic in there. Spaz.
- CWChris Williamson
Look, you are not, you are not Beyoncé, one of the greatest songwriters of a generation, so you wouldn't, you wouldn't know.
- ZTZack Telander
Oh, yeah. She, she-
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, but they've gone back and they've, uh, she's retroactively changing the lyrics. She's gonna change the lyrics so that it says "blastin'" instead of "spazzin'". I remember, as well, in-
- ZTZack Telander
They already did it, by the way.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, they updated it already?
- ZTZack Telander
Yes, but there have been some vinyls that were pressed already-
- 42:25 – 52:35
The Harsh Future of Outrage Culture
- ZTZack Telander
uh, this is something that I was just thinking through. This whole outrage culture is, is bad because it's becoming ... It might become less viable to use outright outrage for good. I think that there's actually, uh, been a lot in cinema that's happened where outrage was good. So for instance, the Sonic the Hedgehog outrage.
- CWChris Williamson
What was that?
- ZTZack Telander
They released the trailer for Sonic the Hedgehog and the (laughs) and he looked horrifying. Okay? So what they did was they fixed the way that he looked, went back in, and changed him completely-... and everyone was like, "Thank you. This is a better movie now." Straight up. This is a straight-up better movie. Um, there's a lot of, there was a lot of people saying, "Okay, hey, we need a Deadpool movie and we need it to be rated R. It needs to be legit." Came out, one of the most successful superhero movies at the time. And so, I think that outrage, that kind of feedback is really awesome. But what you're gonna see is, people are gonna be like, "Well, this is just outrage, you know, this is just outrage culture. Fuck 'em, we're not gonna listen to them, because this is what people do now." Right? So, you get that kinda the boy cried, well, Boy Who Cried Wolf effect, and I think that's gonna suck a lot-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
... if it hasn't already happened.
- CWChris Williamson
It's a problem that people have around over-yusing the accusation of racism, right? If everything is racist, then nothing's racist, and when you-
- ZTZack Telander
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... actually need to call out some real racists, where do you go? It's this ever, uh, intensity-increasing situation. And, yeah, you know-
- ZTZack Telander
It's-
- CWChris Williamson
... if, if outrage occurs at every corner, every opportunity, then yeah, when some real outrage is needed, you're going to be so desensitized to it that you're not even gonna notice.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah, I mean, a- and also how many people are gonna be like, "Oh," like, "I guess, I guess I'm a fucking racist if, if everyone's just gonna call that," and then they're just gonna go-
- CWChris Williamson
They lean into it, yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
They're gonna lean into it. That is what trolls do. That is what the alt-right is all about, right? You tell me what I am? Fine, I'll fucking be that, and I'm gonna troll the-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, I'm gonna be the worst version-
- ZTZack Telander
... shit out of you.
- CWChris Williamson
... of that that you can imagine.
- ZTZack Telander
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
That's essentially what, like, the, the whole issue with the alt-right is, right? You, it's almost like the left creates it. The okay symbol is a great example of this. Okay? The okay symbol is, uh, what was it? Like, the-
- CWChris Williamson
White power.
- ZTZack Telander
White power, looks like a W and a P.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
That was something that was created on the back boards of 4chan, brought up, and then they're like, "Look, we fucking got this, these guys." And then the actual, you know, white nationalist parties were like, "Fuck it. We'll use it. Sure. If it pisses off the left-"
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- ZTZack Telander
"... we'll fucking use it."
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
And we don't know what's real. We don't know what a joke is. You know Poe's Law? Have you heard of P- Poe's Law? It's, it basically states that there is absolutely no way of knowing that something is satirical on the internet unless it is stated.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- ZTZack Telander
Because what you can get into this endless feedback loop of people saying it was satirical, but then taking the satire and making it real and making it a part of it, and kind of creating this weird-
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, very interesting.
- 52:35 – 1:06:50
Batgirl Movie Scrapped
- CWChris Williamson
of movies and stuff like that. Batgirl and Scooby-Doo Holiday Haunt scrapped at Warner Bros. amid cost-savings push. So, Batgirl budgeted at around $80 million with costs rising up to nearly 90 million due to COVID. In a surprising development, Warner Bros. will no longer be releasing Batgirl, the DC film that had already completed shooting and was expected to arrive on HBO Max this year. The unusual move comes after a change in leadership at Warners, with newly installed Warner Bros. Discovery CEO David Zaslav prioritizing cost-cutting measures and, uh, refocusing Warners on creating theatrical films rather than just projects for streaming, as had been a priority for former WarnerMedia CEO Jason Kilar. Batgirl was budgeted at around $80 million, with costs rising to nearly 90 million due to COVID-19 protocols. It's a hefty sum but significantly lower than DC theatrical releases. Thus, the film is said to not have the spectacle that audience have come to expect from DC fare. The Batman, released in March, had a budget of $185 million before marketing costs. Warners also decided to shelve animated feature Scoob! Holiday Haunt, which had a budget in the $40 million range. So, I am not a massive fan of the current trend that we're seeing of trying to rinse every single franchise and squeeze it as hard as possible. You know, we had She-Hulk not long ago-
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... that came out in the cinema, and it was... It didn't even make sense in the Hulk universe because the Hulk wasn't able to speak when he was Hulk. He was enraged. She's able to go to work. She's like a high-powered boss bitch lawyer with a briefcase. There's a scene where she picks some guy up that she's having a one-night stand with, picks him up from the couch and walks him into bed. It's like a total reversal, like gender role reversal thing. But it sucked. Let me see what She-Hulk-
- ZTZack Telander
Well-
- CWChris Williamson
She-Hulk Rotten Tomatoes, what did it get? She-Hulk: Attorney at Law. That's literally, literally what it's called. Uh, is it out? TV series?
- ZTZack Telander
Uh, it might not be out. I think-
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, release date 2022. Yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, I've seen a lot of... Oh, premieres on August 18th, so it'll be out pretty soon.
- ZTZack Telander
So-
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, I... Something tells me it's gonna have a brutal Rotten Tomatoes score.
- ZTZack Telander
Outside of the content sucking, right? What makes me the most angry is the ridiculous waste of money. Okay. As somebody who is currently trying to make a feature film happen, who's trying to raise money and really passionate about a certain project...... to see someone go through an entire w- what... Is it a single film or is it a season?
- CWChris Williamson
Series.
- ZTZack Telander
Okay, a series. For eight- sorry, $90 million, shoot it all, and then never put it out. That is so unbelievably frustrating, but it points to the fact that the best culture cannot possibly be created by the top, not always. Like, the best music for this, this person, or the best, uh, cinema for this person will likely not be created at the top for that person, at least not to the degree that we think it is. Okay? If- if- if production is just a money throw, like throw money at it, pump it out, send it out. And we have the biggest market, we have the best streaming service, eat it up people, right? That- that happens ad nauseum. And, like, to kind of circle back to the Beyoncé thing, right? The- the... Another part to this was that she took a sample from Kelis and, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
Milkshake song, right?
- ZTZack Telander
Kelas... Milkshake, yes. Actually kind of a good song, kind of a banger.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- ZTZack Telander
But before any of that happened, before she didn't give credit at all, The Neptunes, which is Pharrell, they owned the song, and basically tricked her out of not getting any money on b- I think both of her first two albums, which they both produced, she signed a contract and she really did not make the money that she should have made. And what happened was Beyoncé then used Milkshake, which then brought that back into the fray.
- CWChris Williamson
She used Milkshake without the vocal though, right? She just-
- ZTZack Telander
Right. But she-
- CWChris Williamson
... used the sample of the instrumental which was owned by Pharrell which, who was also helping to produce Beyoncé's album.
- ZTZack Telander
Exactly. Which, all it pointed to was that this fucking s- weird world of production of creativity still exists, and it still fucking sucks. It still absolutely blows.
- CWChris Williamson
Even at the elite level?
- ZTZack Telander
Yes. And we live in a world now where you and I can go on the internet and create our content without any oversight at all. And I bel- I do believe that the fact that that's happening is awesome. To put more and more stress on the people up top who fuck over the real creators in this world, or the very talented people in this world. I- I- I honestly th- I honestly believe that.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, man, I mean, there's another element here, I think, of, um, cherished and treasured franchises and series being ruined. What's that quote about you either die the hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain?
- ZTZack Telander
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
That's what's happening with media now. Every company, every franchise is just rinsing... You know what the most impressive thing, I think, is? The Avengers finished. The Avengers stopped. That has to be the most successful, uh, movie franchise of the last, maybe ever, but certainly of the last few years. Maybe since Harry Potter, something like that.
- ZTZack Telander
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
It'll be u- it'll be definitely up there. And they just went, spoiler alert for people that haven't seen it, "We're gonna kill the main character at the end, and then it's gonna finish." And obviously they've got, you know, Loki series-
- ZTZack Telander
So many other things.
- 1:06:50 – 1:08:07
Where to Find Zack
- ZTZack Telander
yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Let's bring this one home. Uh-
- ZTZack Telander
Yup.
- CWChris Williamson
... your current movie project-
- ZTZack Telander
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
... that you're looking for funding for, where can people go to check that out?
- ZTZack Telander
Uh, go to Wefunder.com and then search The Wait. So, it's The Wait LLC. We created an LLC. We created a lot of stuff to get this Wefunder going.
- CWChris Williamson
It's Wait, uh, W-E-I-G-H-T.
- ZTZack Telander
Yes. The Wait. And, uh, right now we have over $150,000 raised, and we have, uh, a lead investor. We have a lot of things in place. Um, the backend is completely full. Like, we have everything we need to get this thing going. Um, and people can not just donate, they can invest and actually have the potential to make their money back and make more money, but also be part of the production of the first weightlifting-based narrative feature film.
- CWChris Williamson
And your socials and all that stuff as well, where should people go?
- ZTZack Telander
Y- yeah, uh, coach_zt on Instagram, and my name, Zach Tellander, on YouTube.
- CWChris Williamson
All right, dude. Appreciate you. What's happening, people? Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that episode, then press here for a selection of the best clips from the podcast over the last few weeks. And don't forget to subscribe. Peace.
Episode duration: 1:08:07
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