Modern WisdomMexican Batman, Britain’s Downfall, Mr Bean’s Comeback & Jimmy Carr - Rabbit Hole #5
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 29,956 words- 0:00 – 2:17
Who is the Batman of Lagos De Moreno?
- CWChris Williamson
A vigilante known as the Batman of Lagos De Moreno has gone viral after catching alleged motorcycle thieves and duct-taping them to lampposts across Lag- Lagos De Moreno in Jalisco. At least five suspected thieves have been found restrained to poles over the past 10 days, some with their mouths taped and signs labeling them as thieves. Authorities are investigating and say those found tied up are being treated as victims. Police have [laughs] added the vigilante to a wanted list and are also lo- looking into whether multiple people are behind the incidents. And we've got some pictures of what these people look like.
- JCJimmy Carr
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
It's like a real... The, the guy's a real-life Mexican Batman that appears to be getting motorcycle thieves and duct-taping... People are also calling him Duct Tape Man, which is-
- JCJimmy Carr
Oh, wow
- CWChris Williamson
... but he's, he's really doing it.
- JCJimmy Carr
Oh, that is... I mean, that's a... Yeah, okay. Sorry. So you hear duct tape, and you think, "I could get myself out of duct tape."
- CWChris Williamson
No.
- JCJimmy Carr
That is... Okay. I, I notice he's left the motorcycle with them. That seems- [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
There's the evidence
- JCJimmy Carr
... that seems bad 'cause someone's gonna cut them free, and they're gonna disappear on the-
- CWChris Williamson
See?
- JCJimmy Carr
... motorcycle.
- CWChris Williamson
There it is, Duct Tape Man.
- GMGeorge Mack
Duct Tape Man.
- JCJimmy Carr
Okay. That seems... That's kind of great 'cause normally if you see a story about crime in Mexico, you go, "Oh, this is gonna be-
- CWChris Williamson
Golly
- JCJimmy Carr
... this is gonna be eye bleach." But-
- CWChris Williamson
This is the... This is a very fluffy way to deal with crime in Mexico it seems.
- JCJimmy Carr
How is he taking down two i- in one? I mean-
- CWChris Williamson
I mean, they don't look-
- JCJimmy Carr
... threatening, no
- CWChris Williamson
... particularly physically in- intimidating
- JCJimmy Carr
They look 14 and terrified. Yeah.
- GMGeorge Mack
I mean, it's... Yeah, don't steal motorcycles. There, there's a message there.
- CWChris Williamson
You would be too if you'd been taped to a lamppost.
- GMGeorge Mack
The rise and fall of civilizations and the rise... Duct Tape Man brings back law and order.
- CWChris Williamson
That's true. You were talking about, uh, strong men make good times. They... That is the strong man that uses duct tape.
- GMGeorge Mack
Well, there, there was the case about seven months ago in the UK where a guy purposely left his bike, um, I think outside of the HMP in London, where all the police are based, and put like a Apple AirTag on it, and it got lost. He calls up the police, and it's like, "We have the AirTag. I have the address. There's nothing we can do. There's nothing we can do." All of a sudden, he then takes it to The Telegraph, The Times. It becomes this huge story, and then the police go, "We're looking into it." So even when you have the GPS coordinates, they don't take it seriously.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, it's good. I think it's a crime I could get behind, though. The vigilante, it's like... It's nice. You don't hear a lot about it these
- 2:17 – 6:32
Is the British Pound Overvalued?
- JCJimmy Carr
days.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, what was the last crime you committed, Jimmy?
- JCJimmy Carr
The last crime?
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
I, I would say probably, um, probably some sort of tax avoidance-
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
... uh, was the last big one. I'd, I'd... No, li- like when that whole thing happened, this is years ago now, like 12, 13 years ago, when it was all going on, I was, like, front of the papers, and the Prime Minister was David Cameron at the time. He broke off from the G20 summit to comment on my personal tax affairs. That is a red flag. But when it was all going on, I never once mentioned the millions that I've given to charity because I thought, "Well, at this point, lying's not gonna help."
- CWChris Williamson
Hm. [laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
[laughs]
- GMGeorge Mack
Yeah. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, 'cause evasion is allowed, but avoidance is not.
- JCJimmy Carr
No, avoidance is allowed. Evasion, there's a big difference, about 18 months in prison.
- CWChris Williamson
Right.
- JCJimmy Carr
Um, but if you're on the right side of that-
- GMGeorge Mack
Or, or if you ask Gary Stevenson, then, then there's a big difference there as well
- CWChris Williamson
... what was the documentary? You watched the new-
- GMGeorge Mack
Have you wa- have you watched Gary Stevenson's new documentary?
- JCJimmy Carr
No. Go on. What's the documentary?
- GMGeorge Mack
I thi- I think he's wonderful. I think he's the best economist.
- CWChris Williamson
I heard you laughing.
- GMGeorge Mack
I think he's the be-
- CWChris Williamson
While you were watching it last night, I could hear you laughing
- GMGeorge Mack
... I think he's the best economist. I think he's the best economist of our times, and when the Soviet Great Britain begums and you guys are fighting over a little bit of bread, me and Gary will, will throw you a strip, so I don't, I don't want to say anything bad about Gary at all.
- CWChris Williamson
Right. Is he, is he a-
- GMGeorge Mack
Because when the Gulags come, Christopher-
- CWChris Williamson
The, he-
- GMGeorge Mack
... I'm gonna be eating bread, and you're gonna be eating crusts
- CWChris Williamson
... this is the same as being kind to your AI in case an AI overlord comes along.
- JCJimmy Carr
Is this the... So is this guy a, a, a Marxist economist or-
- GMGeorge Mack
No, no, no. He's, uh, he's a pioneer. He's a genius, Jimmy. Um, he, his idea-
- 6:32 – 8:30
Jimmy Carr for Prime Minister?
- JCJimmy Carr
do that."
- CWChris Williamson
If, if you're Prime Minister for the day, what are, what are some of your not, like, like, less, uh, maybe less obvious policies that you'd do, rogue policies that you'd implement?
- JCJimmy Carr
Okay. Right, okay. So de- devalue the currency-
- CWChris Williamson
Okay
- JCJimmy Carr
... would be the first thing, which is-
- CWChris Williamson
Zimbabwe mission.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, quite. Which is-
- CWChris Williamson
Not, not that. Specifically how?
- JCJimmy Carr
You, you could just talk it down.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
You... Honestly, you could talk it down in an afternoon.
- CWChris Williamson
We'll go nowhere.
- JCJimmy Carr
Tell the right people at the Bank of England, it's, it, it will go, it will... Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
It will go down. I mean, it's gonna happen anyway.
- CWChris Williamson
But isn't that a bit an optics problem?
- JCJimmy Carr
And, but if, but if we went, if we went... Yeah. But when the, when the currency naturally devalues, when there's, when there's something, something bad happens-
- CWChris Williamson
So it's-
- JCJimmy Carr
... do you, do you go to the IMF and try and bail out the pound, or do you just go, "Great. Things are now cheap in the UK."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JCJimmy Carr
"Come the rest of the world, sale's on."
- CWChris Williamson
It's a bit like rope-a-dope, like Ali just sort of sitting on the ropes. [laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Sitting on the ropes.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And then you come out, and you come out swinging. I'm gonna wait for them-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, come out booming. Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... I'm gonna let him punch me in the face so much that he gets tired.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
It's a-
- 8:30 – 12:40
Can You Guess This Victorian Slang?
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs] All right. Given that we're talking about the UK-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... let's play a game of guess the Victorian slang word.
- JCJimmy Carr
Ooh.
- CWChris Williamson
So I'm gonna say different words from Victorian-era Britain, and you're gonna try and guess what they mean. Okay?
- JCJimmy Carr
Okay. Yeah. Lovely.
- CWChris Williamson
All right. First one, tickety-boo.
- JCJimmy Carr
Hmm. It just means good.
- CWChris Williamson
Something that is in perfect order or a satisfactory condition. That's like, that's kind of-
- JCJimmy Carr
Tickety-boo
- CWChris Williamson
... tickety-boo. Everything's tickety-boo.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah. That's tickety-boo.
- CWChris Williamson
Muffin walloper.
- JCJimmy Carr
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Show on Saturday night, right? [laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
A, a muffin-
- CWChris Williamson
Walloper
- JCJimmy Carr
... uh, fat.
- CWChris Williamson
I think it's a, I think it's a, it's a sort of, um, rather stout gentleman who enjoys muffins. Yeah. An idle person who sits at home-
- JCJimmy Carr
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We can't, we can't just kick on. You've gotta tell us what a muffin walloper is.
- CWChris Williamson
That's what I'm saying. I'm d-
- JCJimmy Carr
Oh, okay. Yeah. Sorry
- CWChris Williamson
... I'm literally describing it to you.
- JCJimmy Carr
Oh, I thought you'd moving on to the next thing. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
No.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's, it's like Christopher-
- CWChris Williamson
It's an idle person who sits at home eating cakes and gossiping instead of cooking, a muffin walloper. So you should be cooking, but instead you're sitting at home eating cakes and gossiping. Next one. Church bell.
- JCJimmy Carr
A church bell would be my, would be my guess there.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs] No, it's not.
- JCJimmy Carr
No?
- 12:40 – 17:47
Why Word Choice Makes or Breaks a Joke
- CWChris Williamson
What do you... I mean, you spend your entire time playing with the English language. What have you come to think about sort of how it's developed recently?
- HDHarry Dry
How it's developed?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. I don't know.
- HDHarry Dry
I don't, I don't, I don't like new words. I mean, this is slightly tangential to the question, but if I, if I was on a date, for example, and someone was using lots of new vernacular, new words, I would say, "It's been a great night." You know? That's what I'd say. I, I think, um, simple words are the best words. Best, be- like what's the, what's the phrase? I mean, big things are best said in small words.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah. It's meant to be like a, a mark of intelligence. Like, if you can get across a complex idea-
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah
- JCJimmy Carr
... to a five-year-old, great. And if, if you need incredibly complex language, you're some kind of huckster. You're selling some bullshit.
- CWChris Williamson
You've got an issue with, like, leet speak, 21st century leet speak, and that would be if a lady wants to bag Harry Dry, she can't use too much modern slang.
- HDHarry Dry
I think the g-
- CWChris Williamson
So if she came out and started talking tickety-boo, that'd, that'd really get you going.
- HDHarry Dry
Unfortunately, I've watched Peep Show. So for any fans of that show, they know that word's a bit of a-
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, dear
- HDHarry Dry
... bit of a turn-off. But I, I think I read once that the French started a revolution with three words, which are quite big words. But what was it? Egalit- egalite, liberte, fraternite. You know? And I, I don't think you need much more than that. You don't need much more than that to sell soap if the French are starting a revolution with, with just three words.
- JCJimmy Carr
What's the best example of, um, compression or to like the most simplest?
- HDHarry Dry
Oh, geez. Um, the best, the best example of compression.
- JCJimmy Carr
Well, there's like a two-word joke, dwarf shortage.
- HDHarry Dry
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
And I had a three-word joke-
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
... which was stationery store moves.
- HDHarry Dry
You had the six-word story. God.
- JCJimmy Carr
Oh, yeah. For sale.
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
Children's shoes never worn.
- HDHarry Dry
Oh, Jesus.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, brilliant. Brilliant.
- HDHarry Dry
How do you think about words, Jimmy, in comedy? Do you think some words are just funny, or do, do you obsess about word choice when-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah
- 17:47 – 33:42
Are All Relationships Transactional?
- HDHarry Dry
What have you got? Did you bring something from home?
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, I've got some stuff from home.
- HDHarry Dry
We were meant to bring stuff.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yes.
- HDHarry Dry
I'm so sorry.
- JCJimmy Carr
No, I'm joking.
- HDHarry Dry
You haven't got anything. Okay. What have you got?
- JCJimmy Carr
So we've... Do, do you recognize what this is?
- HDHarry Dry
You're gonna have to lift it. Put it on the table for the class, please.
- JCJimmy Carr
Okay. Okay. Do you want it here?
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
So this is-
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah, yeah. Just, uh... Yeah, that looks perfect. That's lovely. Thank you.
- JCJimmy Carr
Do you recognize what this is?
- HDHarry Dry
Yes. It's, I would say it's the woods.
- JCJimmy Carr
Some woods. A path in the woods.
- HDHarry Dry
British woods?
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, Britain. So this is Charles Darwin's thinking path that he built around his house. So whenever Darwin was stuck on a problem, he would go on a walk around his thinking path, and he would collect
- CWChris Williamson
He'd have stones, uh, like racked up that he would knock off to kind of figure out how many rounds that he's done. His kids would sometimes fuck with him and like put the stones back on whilst he was walking around. So Darwin used to use this thinking path regularly.
- JCJimmy Carr
Okay. He had 10 kids as well, so there's a lot of-
- CWChris Williamson
Yes
- JCJimmy Carr
... a lot of kids to-
- CWChris Williamson
Do we know what this is?
- JCJimmy Carr
Does that say Yusef? Yusef kidnapped Chase, Arthur, Eames, Lim, Cob... Oh, it's Christopher Nolan's, uh, uh, Inception.
- CWChris Williamson
Correct. This is-- So Christopher Nolan was working on Inception for 10 years. Um, and one of the, uh, things he did was actually draw the plot down. So you see the five-part dream plot that he visualized here. Do you know what this is?
- JCJimmy Carr
Yes, but I'm not gonna say it.
- CWChris Williamson
Do you guys know what it is?
- GMGeorge Mack
Um, it looks like my, uh, my diary when I was in school almost. [laughing] You know, it's... I don't know.
- JCJimmy Carr
Uh, no idea.
- CWChris Williamson
When J-
- 33:42 – 36:21
The Unexpected Upside of Being Cancelled
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- GMGeorge Mack
What's the... When it comes to like cancellation or public criticism, what's the idea that's kind of non-obvious that you only appreciate apart from that once you've gone through it, that most people wouldn't understand?
- JCJimmy Carr
Uh, I think it's, uh, uh, the, the impermanence of it is, is interesting. And the, the idea that you go, "Is anyone gonna care about this in a month or a year or..." You know, and if no one's gonna care in a year, why do you care now? Isn't it?
- HDHarry Dry
Jose's got this line. He says, "The dogs bark and the caravan moves on." And I quite like it.
- CWChris Williamson
Mourinho.
- JCJimmy Carr
Of course. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
You just quoted-
- JCJimmy Carr
What, what else am I-
- CWChris Williamson
That's the first ever Jose Mourinho quote on-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... Modern Wisdom. [laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
It's, it's good though, isn't it? It's like it's, it is, it's that thing where you go, it's, it's a real sort of test. It's character versus reputation. 'Cause your reputation is being destroyed and your character is who you know you are. And-
- HDHarry Dry
What was the, what was the loveliest text or call you had? Like, who was there for you?
- JCJimmy Carr
Uh, there was a few. There was, uh, James Corden would really stand out. So when I got ta- it was The Tank thing actually. And, and he was in Broadway. He was busy winning a, a Tony for his performance in One Man, Two Guvnors, and he called me every night af- in his interval of his show. And he just called me, and then he called me... And I said, "No, I'm fine. I'm fine. Bye." And then he called me the next night 'cause he knew I wasn't, and then he called me the next one-
- CWChris Williamson
Wow
- JCJimmy Carr
... 'cause he knew I wasn't, and he just kept on calling.
- HDHarry Dry
That's amazing.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah. It's a, it's a lovely thing. And when you sort of, uh, it just... And all it teaches you is like, I can't do that for him, but I could do that for someone else.
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
And, and when it comes along, that thing of like being the person that calls when something awkward happens or when something terrible happens, phoning and saying, "I don't know what to say, but I thought I'd call."
- CWChris Williamson
Just-
- JCJimmy Carr
'Cause no one remembers what you say anyway.
- HDHarry Dry
Mm.
- JCJimmy Carr
I think it's a-
- CWChris Williamson
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- 36:21 – 42:18
Why We’ve Forgotten How to Build Friendships
- HDHarry Dry
Uh, I think it's just a lovely thing when people do stuff for you which th- there can be zero ulterior motive. There, there literally can be. I'm trying to think of a good-
- CWChris Williamson
I'll give you... I can give you one from my life. So this was the moment that I became, like, properly, properly good friends with Yusef. So, um- For the people that are within the last six hundred episodes of the show, he only appears once a year, but he was most of the episodes for the first four hundred with Johnny. And, um, he had hurt his back. He has a, um, like a bulging disc. He'd hurt his back in the gym doing flips or deadlifting or whatever he was doing at the time. And I was on my way to drive to one of our club nights, and his house was, like, kind of out of the way, but not a million miles off. So I was like, "I'll, I'll, I'll come over, and I'll bring you something 'cause I know what it's like, debilitating back pain. You're sort of laid up." And he's like, "No, no, you don't need to come and see me." Anyway, I managed to get into his house and brought him a loaf of Soreen, some Ibuleve, some Nurofen, and, like, went and got a hot water bottle for him, and, like, he couldn't move. But he just... The classic male denial of m-medical problems or whatever. And he's 25, right? He's made of rubber and magic. He'll bounce back. He'll be fine.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
But he was just miserable, and it, it felt like it sucked. And that was a palpable moment when our friendship changed. From that-- Even though we were really good friends before, I could just tell that there was something that happened at that moment when I decided to go around with some malt loaf and pain relievers and a hot water bottle and was like, "All right, man, I gotta go and be in a nightclub with a thousand 18-year-olds. Like, I'll-- I, I hope you're all right." And then he messaged-- sent me the text afterwards, like being teary and being like, "Man, that was just how wonderful. Like, what a lovely thing to do." You are right. Like, e-especially in a world where everybody is looking out for the transaction, where, uh, effort can be so low effort, right? Like just sending a text. I think the bar has been lowered for what constitutes becoming a very good friend. Like, you got me for my birthday one time. You got me a newspaper from the day that I was born and a printed off graph of the first episode and the biggest episode with the play count in between it. And I was never-- I couldn't even take-- It was left in Mike Thurston's apartment in-
- JCJimmy Carr
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, uh, D-Dubai for, like, two years 'cause I couldn't fly back with it 'cause it was so big. Um, but like stuff like that, you know, it's just, it's, it's really-
- JCJimmy Carr
Being, yeah, being better at just aggressively going give, give, give, and figure out the next life.
- CWChris Williamson
Aggressive friendship.
- JCJimmy Carr
And figure out the next life.
- CWChris Williamson
But isn't this-
- JCJimmy Carr
BDSM friendship
- CWChris Williamson
... you're, you're often very good on this kind of stuff, right? You pointed out this... I, I thought about this a lot, right? There's a lot of books about being a good parent, but there's no books about being a good kid.
- JCJimmy Carr
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
Right? Which is ki-kind of interesting. Like, and there's-- and really it should be a book about being a family. But it's interesting. There's loads of books. There's, you know, kind of the game and stuff about pickup culture and, uh, finding women and getting women. Great. But there's very little about friendship, and actually that seems to be the thing that... I think friendship is upstream of having a relationship. I think it's not gay to practice on your friends.
- JCJimmy Carr
[laughs] Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
But that thing of, like, building friendships and building kind of... And that's kind of what's missing from, you know, rough and tumble play has been replaced by video games, and it's, it, it doesn't work in the same way. Like, there's something about, like, that male friendship thing and building that up over years, having your boys, having your guys that you're with, that's really incredibly valuable. And we, we don't do enough of it. Robin Dunbar's got this insight. So he was the guy that came up with the hundred and fifty number.
- JCJimmy Carr
I, I interviewed him once. He's brilliant.
- CWChris Williamson
He's fantastic. And, uh, he says that you have your close group of friends, which is five. You have a slot-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... five very close friends, but a relationship takes up two.
- JCJimmy Carr
That'll break-
- CWChris Williamson
So a relationship takes up two of the slot of five, and that would also mean that if you lose the relationship and you want to keep that same level of connection, you can't just replace your chick with a new friend. You probably need to replace them with two.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah. Well, it's also that thing of, like, m-men tend not to do very well post-divorce because they outsource their social life to their other half.
- CWChris Williamson
Correct.
- JCJimmy Carr
So then it, they feel-
- CWChris Williamson
Lose the wife and the friends.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, they're entirely isolated afterwards, which is a, yeah, terrible way to be.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
Robert Dunbar we hear. Go on, you were gonna say something there.
- CWChris Williamson
I've lost my train of thought now, but I think, you know, I always think of, um... I th- I think this-- A, a lot of what we're discussing as well, I wonder if the American audience appreciates it as much as the British one. Because they're so giving, dude. They're so... Americans don't understand just how pro-social they are. Like, you can be on the side of the lake. Uh, this happened, this happened, uh, uh, the, uh, the week when we went to, uh, the Jasper G- Mike's house. Um, and I was on the side of the lake, and a boat just went by. We're like, "Do you want to come wake surfing?" Like, they didn't know me. Like, "Yeah, sure." Went wake surfing. Like that just-- Y-you would need, in order to get to that level of friendliness, that would be a three-year project in the UK-
- 42:18 – 44:41
Why Are Americans More Optimistic Than Brits?
- CWChris Williamson
true. [laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
Well, you had a, you had a great razor for that on, uh... I think it was you. Yeah, it was. But, like, British versus America. So you go the, the British disease is cynicism, and the American disease is bullshit.
- CWChris Williamson
It is.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah. Which is-- Well, I mean, it's great.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
There's a great comic, Jeff Green. Do you know Jeff Green? Great observational comic.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, sure.
- JCJimmy Carr
He said, "I prefer America to Britain. I'd rather be told to have a nice day but by someone that doesn't mean it than told to fuck off by someone that does."
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Jeff Green. Great, great comic.
- JCJimmy Carr
So, so I have a rule of thumb, which is whenever I criticize Britain, I'm gonna criticize America as a return-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah
- JCJimmy Carr
... or, or compliment Britain.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Sounds like you're keeping score.
- JCJimmy Carr
I was thinking
- GMGeorge Mack
Do we, will we ever have, like, an Elizabeth Holmes, a Sam Bankman-Friedman, a, a-
- HDHarry Dry
I think, to be honest-
- GMGeorge Mack
... Ozzy-
- HDHarry Dry
I, that's just, we, we're just not playing at that level
- GMGeorge Mack
No
- HDHarry Dry
... I think that's the reason why
- GMGeorge Mack
Do you think it's just sheer genius?
- JCJimmy Carr
The, the level of brazenness that you need-
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah
- JCJimmy Carr
... to pull that off. The, I don't think any British person, except maybe Gary Stevenson, has enough self-belief to be able to drive that home.
- HDHarry Dry
You need to have banks to rob them.
- GMGeorge Mack
Mm.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah. It's a, it's a good point. Um-
- GMGeorge Mack
[laughs]
- 44:41 – 54:28
The Secret to Truly Original Writing
- GMGeorge Mack
Mm.
- HDHarry Dry
Jimmy, how do you, is this a, how do you... I feel like there's two different ways into, like, creating stuff.
- JCJimmy Carr
Right.
- HDHarry Dry
And I feel like there's the volume method, which is like I'm just going to write a lot of jokes, and some of them are going to be good.
- JCJimmy Carr
Right.
- HDHarry Dry
And that's sort of Prince when he was recording music would just make a lot of, he'd record a song a day, you know? And then there's, like, the Leonard Cohen approach of I'm going to spend five years on Hallelujah. I'm going to write 80 verses. And I wonder in comedy, are you more like I'm just going to write, write, write, and some jokes are going to stick, or I'm going to, I'm going to work on one joke for a good, for a good couple of days?
- JCJimmy Carr
No, I, I, I find, I don't find working on them really helps. It's like they come out pretty much fully formed, and then I just, it's, it's iteration. It's just trying new things, and the audience tell you what's going to work. So the audience feedback, the audience is a genius. They tell you what is and what isn't funny and what is and what isn't acceptable, and you just go back to them time and time again. So at the end of the show, I've still got it on me from last night, you got new jokes, and then you just try the new things and-
- HDHarry Dry
Wow. That's like how you're writing your book, George, almost.
- GMGeorge Mack
Yeah. Do you set yourself a number of jokes to, to write? Is it like that or?
- JCJimmy Carr
Not really. I mean, there's always, like, there's always new stuff to try. There's always like a, a, I've got a file that's huge of like, okay, the, and I print off, okay, I'll try 10 tonight, and, and then the next 10, and then you sort of maybe you tweak them a little bit, but it's not a full kind of rewrite. You might tweak it a little bit if you go, "I didn't really got that at all, and that wasn't clear enough." But it's very rare that you tell some- a joke and it doesn't work, and you can rescue it with a rewrite. It tends to be just the idea's just not there.
- HDHarry Dry
Mm.
- GMGeorge Mack
Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
And some, and if they're immediate, then that's... And you're looking for the triple As. You're looking for the ones that are going to work every single time, no matter how you deliver them. You're looking for that kind of quality.
- HDHarry Dry
Mm.
- JCJimmy Carr
So the idea of, like, polishing something's kind of a, a different... Some, sometimes it's like you change the wording a little bit, and it, it perfects it.
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah.
- GMGeorge Mack
Right.
- HDHarry Dry
I remember Jason Freed, uh, said this about writing. He said, "If I write, if I write it down and it just doesn't, it's not feeling right," he said, "I'm not, I, I'm not going to come back to it. I'm not going to rewrite it. I'm just going to leave it, start again the next day," and it's like a different route in, which is funny because I have a very different... I, I, I don't particularly work like that.
- JCJimmy Carr
Do you ever hear the, um, uh, Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen story when they met up? They met up for lunch, and they, uh, he talked about, um-
- HDHarry Dry
Hallelujah, 80 verses-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah
- HDHarry Dry
... four years or whatever.
- JCJimmy Carr
No, no, it was like, he, it was Bob Dylan went, I think he said, he said, "How long did it take you to write, um, uh, All Along the Watchtower?" And Bob Dylan said, "20 minutes." And he said, "How long did it take you to write Hallelujah?" And he said, "12 years," because he was embarrassed that it had been 20.
- HDHarry Dry
[laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
But it was like, it's a long time.
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
So what's your process? Do you, do you sit and-
- HDHarry Dry
Well, I, I like writing. I think that you can't really write, you can only rewrite. So I, I'm, I guess I'm not writing jokes, you know?
- JCJimmy Carr
But is that, but that thing of like you can't write, you can only rewrite, like, I think the idea of doing, you do masses of stuff. I think the reason most people don't succeed in the arts is because they get into it because they like really good stuff. They've got great taste, but then they don't stick around long enough to be able to produce good stuff.
- HDHarry Dry
Mm-hmm. If I was-
- 54:28 – 59:36
Which Industry Will Disappear Next?
- HDHarry Dry
Sell your tat.
- CWChris Williamson
It's interesting, that thing of, like, industries that are like businesses, industries that disappear overnight. Like 19-... I love the fact in 1901, biggest industry in the world was, uh, whaling.
- HDHarry Dry
Whaling?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- HDHarry Dry
Whale oil to light.
- CWChris Williamson
Whaling. Catching whales. What's whaling? Catching whales. Huh.
- JCJimmy Carr
Selling the-
- CWChris Williamson
They needed the oil in order to put the lamps right to, and then-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... the light bulb comes along
- JCJimmy Carr
I think whaling was the biggest industry in 1901, and it, it had fully disappeared by 1903. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Wow.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, like there's whole towns in Canada just like shut down.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, fax machines are kind of like that. Fax machines go from everywhere to now just the running the NHS and the trains. Horses in New York, in Manhattan.
- JCJimmy Carr
Horses in New York, yeah. And it's always the technology that's the... Because they, they brought in so many laws to get rid of horses in New York because the horse manure problem. You know, the reason there's steps up to brownstones in New York is because the horse shit was that high. And there's the whole thing of like smelling salts, like people, because the whole place smelt horrific. It was just horse shit. And if the horses died, they had to chop them up, wait for them to atrophize, chop them up in the street, and then cart them off using other horses, who then died on the way. So the whole thing was just, it was a, an absolute mess. And they kept on bringing in new laws, new laws, new laws to try and get, you know, a tax on horses, another tax on horses, and then Henry Ford comes along, invents the motor car, and people go, "Yeah, we don't need horses."
- CWChris Williamson
Wow. What do you, what do you think is that now? What do you think five years, 50 years, 100 years will be like, "Oh, it's gone"?
- JCJimmy Carr
Well, I think it's, it's a very interesting question because obviously the AI thing, we can see the jobs it's going to take, but we can't see the jobs it will create.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
But I, I, I wonder with that whether-
- CWChris Williamson
I think talk shows would be quite obvious point. I, I... Is there still room-
- JCJimmy Carr
Close to Jimmy's heart. Careful
- CWChris Williamson
... is-
- JCJimmy Carr
No, no, I mean that, that-
- CWChris Williamson
Oh
- JCJimmy Carr
... I think you're, I think you're like the-
- CWChris Williamson
It's changed
- JCJimmy Carr
... from old media to, to new media. I think the, the idea that something like, you know, I love Saturday Night Live, but I can't see it being around in 10 years.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JCJimmy Carr
Like the am- I remember going to see a recording, uh, last year and just thought, "Wow, this is incredible." The amount of people to put this show on to make this happen, it was like, it was incr- it really genuinely, like spectacular. And then you just go, "Well, I can't imagine this being... It can't compete with people just doing funny sketches on their phone." Because the, the size of the screen seems to be inversely proportionate to the amount of money you can make.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- 59:36 – 1:06:02
Is AI Killing Conspiracy Theories?
- CWChris Williamson
Speaking of technology, a new study claims that an eight-minute conversation with ChatGPT can reduce belief in conspiracy theories by about 20%, and these effects last at least two months. I'm always wary of tiny interventions that purport to have large and long-lasting effects, but I don't see anything immediately fishy about this study, and the mechanism is plausible. I bet most 9/11 truthers have never spoken to a skeptic who both took them seriously and who knew a lot about 9/11. And I think this is an underrated and positive aspect of AI. People are worried about the ha- hallucinations and AI psychosis, and rightfully so. But keep in mind that many people do not know basic uncontroversial truths about their world. 37% of Americans, a plurality, believe that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years. 40% don't understand how a control group works. 26% think that the sun goes around the Earth. For these people, talking to a chatbot is likely to leave them with a more accurate view of reality. Alain de Botton.
- JCJimmy Carr
I think it's an interesting point because conspiracy theories for me are a symptom, uh, of a much larger problem, which is we've lost, lost sort of trust in institutions. Like I, I think that's, they kind of, they bubble up when you have no, no faith in institutions because you desperately want to believe in something. You desperately want to kind of trust someone, but you don't trust the government anymore, and you don't trust the medical profession, and you don't trust, um, academics anymore. So you kind of, you, you're desperately searching So these kind of more and more kind of incredible theories come to the fore. I mean, not to say that people do conspire to do things. That's a different thing.
- HDHarry Dry
Mm.
- JCJimmy Carr
I mean, like conspiracy theories in their traditional form, like an unfalsifiable-
- HDHarry Dry
Well-
- JCJimmy Carr
... sort of theory
- HDHarry Dry
... uh, you throw this... Let's say, for example, the coronavirus pandemic happened. Like, it never happened, and it happens in 2026, which we're in.
- JCJimmy Carr
Right.
- HDHarry Dry
I, I wonder what the AI bots would be saying about the coronavirus.
- JCJimmy Carr
Oh, that's fascinating.
- HDHarry Dry
That's fucking ret-
- JCJimmy Carr
Because people would be arguing online with other people based on what their bot had told them to derive from the facts.
- GMGeorge Mack
As well as you would have the Fable model, for example, wouldn't reply because it'd be around biology, that you can't ask any basic questions to Fable right now about biology because it might be thinking you're printing a 3D virus. If you ask it-
- JCJimmy Carr
So everyone would be asking Kimi and-
- GMGeorge Mack
Or, yeah, you'd be getting, you'd be getting, like-
- JCJimmy Carr
The Chinese models
- GMGeorge Mack
... Chinese news models
- JCJimmy Carr
... which would be interesting, the cause and effect, the full circle. Well, how long, how long do you think... I mean, I'm not... Who's to say AI didn't create COVID? Who's to say that it wasn't... I mean, it was... It seems to be now people are saying it was created in a lab. Do you think this technology arrived when we think it arrived, or do you think it's been around for 10 years?
- GMGeorge Mack
I think it's arrived when we, when we, when it arrived.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah, because the transformer technology that you need-
- GMGeorge Mack
Here's my... You're a good one. [laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
My favorite, my favorite, uh-
- GMGeorge Mack
Here we go. [laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
Do you want to hear my favorite conspiracy theory at the moment?
- GMGeorge Mack
Bring it on.
- JCJimmy Carr
Okay. So there's a two terrifying scenarios. One is there's a Manhattan Project currently underway in America, and they're working on a AGI. It's the ne- it's the, it's the big thing.
- HDHarry Dry
Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's the doomsday weapon is the AGI, and they're working on it, and it's called Solstice. And it's somewhere in America. We don't know where. But that's being worked on, right? Second terrifying scenario, they're not.
- HDHarry Dry
Jimmy, w- when do you, when do you think of all your ideas?
- 1:06:02 – 1:08:26
Are Smartphones the Real Epidemic?
- HDHarry Dry
me.
- GMGeorge Mack
Describe your phone.
- HDHarry Dry
I, I could, I could sell my phone. Uh, it's a Quin F22 Pro. It's, it's, um, it has applications, but it's too useless to, to get addicted to.
- JCJimmy Carr
Great. Yeah, like a-
- HDHarry Dry
You purposely dumb phoned yourself. No, g- genuinely, like it's, um... Actually, I, I, I don't really like talking about it because I got it because I, I hate these people who get their new phones and it's all stupid phones, and they're like, they, they, they make it their thing. So I feel kind of [laughs] self-conscious talking about it on a show. But my younger brother Jack had this phone, and he got the non-pro version, which is a bit of a mistake because it's actually just too useless to text on. But I got the pro, Quin F22 Pro, and, and I... But, but I love, I love Jack because I was on holiday with him, and, and he didn't mention it once. And I was like, "Jack, what's this, what's this phone?" And I feel like the way to get people onto these phones is to not ram it down people's throats.
- GMGeorge Mack
True. Sometimes you got to let them know because Harry came out for Austin for my birthday, said goodbye to him. I don't hear anything for a few days. I'm like, "What's happened to him?" And then he finally gets back in touch via WhatsApp on his desktop, and he's like, "What did you do to your phone again? You threw it in the river on the way out?"
- HDHarry Dry
I threw it in the, I threw it, I threw it into the co-... I didn't, I didn't throw it into the river because that would've been ... disrespectful to the fishes. I threw it into the bin by the river.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- HDHarry Dry
Um, and then I switched out. I, I, I really, I- i- if I come a- come across a lot of money, I think it's what I would, like, try and change in the world. Like, I just... I do feel it really depressing. Like, y- you walk into a sauna in Austin, and it's an epidemic of people with AirPods in.
- CWChris Williamson
I'll take you to a sauna in Austin where there's, there's people-
- JCJimmy Carr
Men with something else in.
- HDHarry Dry
There is someone in a sauna right now listening to this-
- JCJimmy Carr
With AirPods in
- HDHarry Dry
... going, "Why are they shaming me?"
- JCJimmy Carr
[laughs]
- HDHarry Dry
Look, look, genuinely, look, look at your life if you are doing that. I feel like you might feel like you've got it all worked out. If, if you have that one step, you are doing it, you haven't got nothing worked out.
- JCJimmy Carr
Uh, bef- uh, uh, wait there for a second. Uh, how do you feel about people that wear AirPods during massages?
- HDHarry Dry
Sorry, Chris, how do I feel about people wearing AirPods? Full stop. You're done.
- CWChris Williamson
Right, but okay. Let's, let's, uh, that-
- HDHarry Dry
During massage, you're also done. It doesn't change the question.
- CWChris Williamson
I've listened to audiobooks during a massage, yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
All the ti- no, no, no, no, no. Th- th- this is... You're being very diplomatic about how-
- HDHarry Dry
Even, even during the happy ending?
- JCJimmy Carr
[laughs] That's, he, he speeds it up.
- CWChris Williamson
What, what audiobook?
- JCJimmy Carr
He speeds it up.
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
That's why it's Napoleon.
- HDHarry Dry
Oh.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- 1:08:26 – 1:11:49
Why We Need to Learn to Be Bored Again
- JCJimmy Carr
at the same time? You need to stop wearing AirPods during massages.
- CWChris Williamson
Why?
- JCJimmy Carr
I, I just... It is the perfect-
- HDHarry Dry
Wait, is he massaging you?
- JCJimmy Carr
[laughs] That's true.
- HDHarry Dry
Why is-
- JCJimmy Carr
It's, it's more a client-
- HDHarry Dry
Why has he got this level of... Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's, it's a client service worker dispute. He was supposed to approach it dispute.
- HDHarry Dry
Ah, this guy's not even paying attention.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Listen to this gibberish as he jumps on. Go on.
- JCJimmy Carr
I, I just... It is the perfect time to be with your thoughts, to do some good thinking without feeling like you're wasting time, you're falling behind, being in the dark playground-
- HDHarry Dry
I think we-
- JCJimmy Carr
... being in a reverse version of it.
- HDHarry Dry
We talked about that earlier. I think boredom is unappreciated serenity, and allowing yourself to be bored, like, like planning it is quite a good idea.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- HDHarry Dry
Like train travel, it's quite good to be on a train, be bored, be in an airport, be bored.
- CWChris Williamson
I'm bored enough. I, I'm bored enough. I do, I do enough time alone with my own thoughts. When I'm having a massage, I, I want to, I want to have Napoleon-
- JCJimmy Carr
Speed listen.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
Speed listen to-
- CWChris Williamson
Andrew Roberts' 40 Hours.
- HDHarry Dry
I didn't realize Napoleon even recorded an audiobook. This is tremendous. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, I, I slightly disagree. To play s- to play devil's advocate, um, how do you know you're not in the mass hysteria of TV's going to give you square eyes? Uh, like calculate should be banned.
- JCJimmy Carr
Luddite syndrome.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, Luddite syndrome. How do you know when you're, uh, going against smoking versus being a Luddite?
- HDHarry Dry
S- I don't know when I'm going against smoking.
- JCJimmy Carr
'Cause like, how do you know you're pushing back against something genuinely negative-
- HDHarry Dry
Because I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll tell you why
- 1:11:49 – 1:17:01
Do Meditation Retreats Need AI Chatbots?
- HDHarry Dry
those screens.
- JCJimmy Carr
Mm. How was the retreat?
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, it was intense. Yeah, to do seven days... I mean, it'll be the longest time, like, you know, since I was probably a child there would have even been a TV in the room, right? Uh, one of the guys [laughs] , there was an AI, uh, interface that could help you with your practice and, uh-
- HDHarry Dry
What? That sounds like absolutely defeating the purpose. [laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Well, look, I, I didn't use it. I didn't use it. It was if, if, if none of the facilitators were available-
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... and you were coming up against some blocks in your practice, there was a chatbot that had... was on a, was on a laptop and had been sort of imbued with-
- HDHarry Dry
With [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
... all of the principles of the thing. But the interesting thing, this was Timur, who was one of the br-
- HDHarry Dry
They have ab- they have, they have fucked up so hard there.
- CWChris Williamson
I didn't go into that. I didn't go into that room. I didn't use that.
- JCJimmy Carr
Bring some more.
- CWChris Williamson
However-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... he thought, "Am I able to find out the England score by messaging the, the, the-"
- JCJimmy Carr
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
"... meditation chatbot?"
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
So he's trying to go... [laughs] Every time that I sit down to meditate, I keep being distracted by wondering what the England score was. Would it be possible for me to find out so that I can get back to my practice, please? Um, but no, fascinating. Northern California, it was Jhana practice, J-H-A-N-A. Um, it was also OpenAI's Global Reset Week, so a lot of the engineers were off from work. They have two global reset weeks, which is basically enforced holiday for your... as a, as a way to try and sort of front run people not getting burnt out by saying, "Hey, you've got... You, you can't come into work," essentially. So- I go and there's all of the guy-- a bunch of the guys from OpenAI, but there's also all of their main competitors from Anthropic and a bunch of other guys that are in there from Google as well. So there was kind of like low-key silent meditation retreat turf wars going on between people at the forefront of AI development. That was kind of interesting. And yeah, like you, you kind of learn the particular school of meditation I was doing, which was Jhana. You're learning to allow conductivity through your emotions, and that is to allow them to move freely without any, uh, constriction. So you're, uh, noticing and releasing mental tension. It's like primarily what you're doing, but that drops down into emotional tension. What you realize when you come back into the world is how much of your life is spent constricting emotional tension because there's times when emotions come up where it's, it's not appropriate for it. You might feel a little overwhelmed as you're walking through the airport, which everybody did as we went reintegrated back into society. Well, that's not the time for you to talk about how I'm feel so scared and awkward, and this is too much for me. It's like, no, you [inhales] , you swallow down the overwhelming wildfires in Europe and the fat guy presenting the football on the t- on the screens, and you just sort of move past it. Also, it's very difficult to hear what your soul is whispering to you when the world's shouting at the same time.
- GMGeorge Mack
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
So you start to hear far more fleeting thoughts-
- GMGeorge Mack
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... that come up. A lot of the thoughts that you wouldn't have been able to pay attention to if you were regularly even talking to people, let alone being on screens. So that was kind of interesting.
- GMGeorge Mack
What was your soul whispering to you, Chris?
- CWChris Williamson
My soul whispering to me, probably fucking spend more time in silence, I think. Like it was quite meta. Um, it's vegetarian, which meant that almost everybody's digestion was ruined for the first three or four days. Lots of beans, lots of tofu. But trying to do group meditation with 40 people in a room while there's farting going on is relatively interesting. Um, some guy, I have no idea how, but entered the retreat single and left the retreat with a girlfriend. So that is the level of game.
- GMGeorge Mack
Fuck, that boy's got game.
- CWChris Williamson
Mate, that's the level of game.
- GMGeorge Mack
Wow!
- CWChris Williamson
Like none of us could pull it at a silent meditation retreat.
- 1:17:01 – 1:20:03
Are Mental Health Problems Really Societal Problems?
- CWChris Williamson
I think it might be that the... We've, uh, we spoke about this, um, Mark Fisher talked about this before he died, about the, the idea that we've, um, uh, privatized, uh, mental health problems. We, we sort of think it's a personal failing for people to be depressed or anxious, and actually I think it's a societal problem. We're not organizing our society correctly for people to, um, flourish. Uh, I think it's like the phones are kind of a symptom of a much larger problem within our society that we're quite sort of isolated and we're kind of looking for something to do. We're not in groups. We're not with other people.
- GMGeorge Mack
We'll go back to the thinking with your hands, mouth, feet. Uh, feet, step count massively down. Hands, uh, uh, you almost... You're using your hands on your phone, but you're no- not using your hands like how most humans used to throughout history. It wasn't... Tell you what. Here's one.
- CWChris Williamson
Go on. What you got?
- GMGeorge Mack
Uh, when Winston Churchill was-
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, yeah
- GMGeorge Mack
... going through, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
The black dog
- GMGeorge Mack
... the black dog.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- GMGeorge Mack
He would put up 200 bricks a day. Apparently, he's actually a terrible bricklayer. The bricklayers had to go in afterwards and do it.
- CWChris Williamson
Fix it.
- GMGeorge Mack
But Churchill, just to keep his mind at bay, he would do something with his hands every single day.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- GMGeorge Mack
So when you lose the lack of feet, hands, and mouth, I do think that can be, not necessarily a full explain of, of mental health problems, but it definitely contributes.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, it's interesting that thing of like the how much is a hardware problem, how much is a software problem?
- GMGeorge Mack
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
Like how much of like if you meet someone that's f- if you've got a friend really going through a tough time, it's like, well, are they sleeping eight hours? Are they eating well? Are they exercising? Are they walking in nature? Are they seeing their friends? Like if you cover that, that sort of simple stuff. But it's very difficult to regulate that stuff when you're feeling terrible. It's like you get into a spiral.
- GMGeorge Mack
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
The most absurd one was when, uh, it was a study that came out, it was like a meta-analysis of all the causes of, um, depression or the biggest treatments that have an impact on it, and the big headline was exercise beats SSRIs, and that was the huge thing that made like global news. But if you actually go into the meta-analysis, exercise is like number five on the list. You know, SSRIs are further down. Number one on the list, and it's just an absolute sleeper that nobody talks about, dance therapy.
- GMGeorge Mack
Dance therapy.
- CWChris Williamson
Dance therapy outperformed exercise. And it's an interesting one of-
- GMGeorge Mack
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... well, you have a lot of the benefits of exercise, but you're with people and you're out of your own head with music.
- GMGeorge Mack
Well, also you, you haven't got, you haven't got headphones on when you're dancing, whereas if you're exercising, you have headphones. It ma- it makes me think-
- HDHarry Dry
When did we get evolved enough to be depressed?
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, I guess that there's, there's kind of, it's slightly we're busy, busy fighting saber-toothed tigers for a while. Like too busy. I think it's that thing where we have a... Like if you really wanna know how privileged you are, how far into the future are you planning? Because I think poor people have no future, and I, I mean that literally. Like peop- if, if you're living hand-to-mouth and you're thinking about the next meal, well, you're not even thinking about what you're doing tomorrow. You're just trying to get through the day. And then really wealthy people think on like, "Oh, I wonder my, my grandkids, I need to make sure they're okay." It's like it's a different-
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah
- JCJimmy Carr
... timeframe. But I think that thing about having, having too much time-
- 1:20:03 – 1:31:18
Is Gambling More Popular Than Reading?
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah. We, uh, I, my dad, I got three brothers, and my, my dad would... Well, he was a radio presenter back in the day, and he'd, he'd, um, work a night shift in radio, and then he'd work a day shift teaching radio. And he just didn't a- like he slept in the car for a couple of years. He just didn't have enough time to, to get down. You know, when you've got kids to feed, it's-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
That is a hell of a double shift, radio by night and teaching radio by day.
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah, my dad's great. He was a, he was an electrician. He really wanted to... This is kind of a story, a little story about, like, the power of teaching, 'cause he was kind of, he wasn't the smartest cookie in the shed, and when he was from, he was from Hull, and he was, [chuckles] he was-
- CWChris Williamson
It's a disadvantage right there. Yeah
- HDHarry Dry
... he was in a, um... His, his, his grand- his great-grandfather built Hull Prison. Um, and he's in this little classroom, and he's, he's listening to Noel Edmonds' last ever radio show 'cause his, his big dream was to be a radio star. And, um, and he had this teacher, I can't rem- can't remember the teacher's name, but, like, he thought he was gonna be told off, uh, uh, wearing a cap to cover the, you know, the big old-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah
- HDHarry Dry
... headphones you'd used to use. And he says, "What? Dry. What are you doing, Dry?" And he says, "Noel Edmonds' last ever radio show. I'm listening to it." And teacher goes, "Carry on, Dry." And he went on to, like he won a Sony Award. He, he was, his career was very up and down, but, you know, and it's just an example of, like, I don't know. I love it when teachers just, just-
- JCJimmy Carr
Mm
- HDHarry Dry
... acknowledge actually what's important in-
- JCJimmy Carr
Mm-hmm
- HDHarry Dry
... in, in kids', um, you know, upbringing.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yes. Lovely. Lovely. Is your father still with us? Is he still, still knocking around?
- HDHarry Dry
[chuckles] Yeah, he's still knocking around. With- thinking of radio, and I don't think you'd mind me saying this, now you get fired a lot. It's show business. Like y- you're in one, you're in one show, you're out the next. So, um, we play Articulate, as a matter... You all know Articulate, um, the, the, the, the game where you have to describe individuals.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- HDHarry Dry
And my dad would just k- he, he, he infuriates us 'cause he'll constantly just say, "Interviewed him," and we'll go, "Come on, Dad." And he goes, "Joan..." Oh, I think he was trying to describe Joan Arma trading once, and he sa- and he, and he, he sha- he shouts at my mother, "Sand dropped the pilot. Interviewed him in '08." And Mom was just like, "But I, I don't know."
- JCJimmy Carr
It's kind of a great thing now because radio is about... And we're seeing, like, old school showbiz, uh, like being an actor or being a presenter. You're waiting for someone to bring you flowers. You're wait- you're waiting for someone to come along and give you permission to do the thing that you really wanna do. And now with new media, it feels like that permission is already, is ki- you give it to yourself. You go, "Well, no one's stopping me. I could just start a podcast and interview people and do whatever." I mean, it's what you did in a bedroom in Middlesbrough.
- HDHarry Dry
In your, in your bedroom. Yeah, yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
And it's, and it's just kind of ex... You know, you ki- you give yourself permission. As long as you keep doing the thing, kind of it happens.
- CWChris Williamson
And Substack has done the same thing for writing that YouTube did for video and that Apple Podcasts and Spotify did for audio.
- JCJimmy Carr
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
It's the same thing.
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah, Substack is, uh, uh, I used to have this joke that if aliens looked at human reading and writing data, they'd be like, "Oh, it's, it's going up." But then as soon as you zoomed in, it's just subtitles and text messages.
- JCJimmy Carr
Mm. Mm.
- HDHarry Dry
Everything else is proo- like collapsing.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, they do, they do talk about people being kind of, um, post-literate now. Like not, they're not, people aren't reading books.
- HDHarry Dry
Well, I had this realization this week, um, what we were talking about earlier around the whaling going out from 1901 and then, sorry, being the number one, then going out. Have you used WhisperFlow much yet?
- CWChris Williamson
I've been told to.
- HDHarry Dry
It is-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah
- 1:31:18 – 1:37:44
Is Belief the Secret to Great Writing?
- CWChris Williamson
What's, what's your favorite joke you've ever written?
- JCJimmy Carr
The last one that worked. I mean, it's, it'll literally-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah
- JCJimmy Carr
... be the last... I li- I try and I try not to get attached to them, so it's that thing where you go, "Well, I like the thing that worked the other night, that worked for the first time." You go, "Great, that's, that'll do."
- CWChris Williamson
So you rip them up, rip them up, rip them up.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, it's like the new thing, the new thing, the new thing.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- JCJimmy Carr
And then you're kind of putting a show together, and that's kind of an exciting phase, but just whatever the latest thing is.
- GMGeorge Mack
It's interesting, the, the good and the bad of any industry, 'cause the good thing
- CWChris Williamson
For you, I guess, that you get to constantly come up with new material, but it's also, like, if you're a Noel Gallagher who has a two-year stretch and does those songs, like the leverage of that exists forever
- JCJimmy Carr
A lot of musicians kind of, like they, they, uh, they don't want to end up in Las Vegas being a covers band of themselves.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JCJimmy Carr
You know? So it's that thing where you go, "Be careful what you wish for." Like, I've constantly got to come up with new stuff, but that's also the fun bit is coming up with the new stuff.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, we was debating this once of if you could imagine, uh, impact and then doing it over time. You've done an incredible job of, like, doing it over multiple decades, but a lot of musicians, they'll have that one album, and then they can't repeat it ever again. Whereas some people like Christopher Nolan's probably, in my, my opinion, one of the best who's managed to keep going. New-
- HDHarry Dry
Kanye, by the way, Kanye, like is the best, like College Drop-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- HDHarry Dry
He is
- CWChris Williamson
Recent stuff's a little bit
- HDHarry Dry
His recent stuff, College Dropout, Late Registration, 808s & Heartbreak-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah
- HDHarry Dry
... Yeezus, My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, Life of Pablo are just completely different albums. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- HDHarry Dry
But they're completely different albums. Like he-
- CWChris Williamson
It's quite, it's, that's very rare.
- HDHarry Dry
It is.
- JCJimmy Carr
Very rare.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's very interesting, I think. It's very, very interesting that thing of like genius. People often talk about genius, but they, they don't... What they're talking about is like, um, hyper-accelerated rationality, not genius. I think genius is a different thing. I think he-
- 1:37:44 – 1:38:46
How GLP-1s Are Killing Gastric Band Surgery
- JCJimmy Carr
on it, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. The, uh, it was interesting you were talking about how coping mechanisms After gastric band surgery, people, uh, sometimes commit suicide, and gastric band surgery is quite traumatic. Sometimes the surgeons make really silly errors, like leave utensils inside of people and sew them back up, or bits of gauze and... But but the big reason that people commit suicide after gastric band surgery is that the reason they were overeating was probably because of an underlying emotional issue.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah. That's how they were, they were using the food as a, as medicine.
- CWChris Williamson
Bingo.
- JCJimmy Carr
And then they-
- CWChris Williamson
And they still have the underlying issue, but they're no longer able to use the food.
- JCJimmy Carr
Mm. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
So the, the-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Crazy. And the same thing with the phone, right? What is the phone using?
- HDHarry Dry
The chests instead. It's very-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Being there to distract you from. Well, so you shouldn't get a gastric band-
- HDHarry Dry
Mm
- CWChris Williamson
... fitted. I guess g- I wonder what... Surely, can you ChatGPT, Jared, gastric band surgery, what's been the impact of GLPs on gastric band surgery?
- JCJimmy Carr
Oh, that is-
- CWChris Williamson
It has to-
- JCJimmy Carr
That's, that's the whaling industry, literally. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Yes. Hey, very good.
- JCJimmy Carr
That's gone.
- CWChris Williamson
Very good.
- JCJimmy Carr
That's gone.
- 1:38:46 – 1:45:17
Is Mr Bean the World’s Biggest Comedy Star?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- HDHarry Dry
Jimmy, when you're so quick, is it algorithmic or is it, like, is it, like, a sort of algorithm in your brain which insert topic, you know where to go, or is it intuitive? What's the... Say you're, say you're roasting somebody.
- JCJimmy Carr
I don't, I mean, I-
- HDHarry Dry
You don't even know.
- JCJimmy Carr
No. I d- I don't even think of it as being quick. It's often that thing of like, I'll s- I'll feel like I'm sitting on it for 10 seconds before I say it. And then the worst person for this is Lee Mack. Do you know Lee Mack?
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah, I know him, yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
The comedian?
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
Lee Mack, they often have to put a thing into the edit and add a pause before he says the line, because he's just like-
- HDHarry Dry
Plus he just plows through it
- JCJimmy Carr
... he's like, it's so quick.
- HDHarry Dry
Yo.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's, it's... Yeah, it's amazing.
- HDHarry Dry
I had a question. Uh, I had a question. It's actually, it's, it's about position. Do you know who the biggest comedian on YouTube is? And I'll give you a... I, I won't give you a clue. He's actually four times bigger than every single other comedian.
- JCJimmy Carr
Well, it ain't me. [laughs]
- HDHarry Dry
Is it, is it Matt Rife?
- JCJimmy Carr
No.
- HDHarry Dry
Right. I'm trying to think about-
- CWChris Williamson
He had, and on what, on-
- HDHarry Dry
40 million, 40 million subscribers. You'll all know him. Very-
- CWChris Williamson
Are they digital first?
- HDHarry Dry
I don't understand the question.
- JCJimmy Carr
No. No, I'd, I'd, I'd go Rowan Atkinson. I'd say Mr Bean.
- HDHarry Dry
Rowan Atk- Bang on.
- JCJimmy Carr
No way.
- HDHarry Dry
Mr Bean.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, much bigger, yeah.
- HDHarry Dry
And I, I feel like th- there's... So I teach, I teach advertising, and they're like w- within Mr Bean is the, the silent comic of, say, 21st century, and I think, um, he has, he has the best position. This is like the Charlie Chaplin of his day.
- JCJimmy Carr
Hmm.
- HDHarry Dry
Diff- So if you want, if you want to get stuck in the mind, you want to get an idea stuck in the mind-
- 1:45:17 – 1:52:15
When Did Criticism Replace Encouragement?
- JCJimmy Carr
of punching against. I mean-
- HDHarry Dry
Does jealousy come up a lot in, in comedy?
- JCJimmy Carr
I don't think it should, but I think it does occasionally. I think there's that thing where for me, comedy has never been about that because it's not like being an actor where you go, look, there's one guy who's gonna p- be Bond, right? There's one actor that's gonna be announced as the new James Bond, and none of the others are gonna be, and that's, that must be heartbreaking for them. Whereas w-
- CWChris Williamson
You can do the stand on Monday. It doesn't mean that the other guy can't do the stand on Thursday.
- JCJimmy Carr
Like you can play at a theater. You c- you can pack out the O2 for five nights, but the venue's still there. Someone else can play it the next night, and it's, it's also that thing of like the more people that go and see live comedy and enjoy the experience. It's like, it's kind of like the early days of rock 'n' roll. You go, yeah, the more people that go, the more people that want to go, and if they have a great experience-
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah. Expand the pie
- JCJimmy Carr
... they're gonna want to come more.
- HDHarry Dry
Grow, grow the pie.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, you want to grow the pie, and you want pe-- And the idea that, that you go, well, there's different people that you like more or less, but everyone's kind of doing the sa- it's the same intention.
- CWChris Williamson
Certainly when it comes to content online, I think that the, uh, against for balance is actually skewed in against. I think there are more people-
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... producing critiques via content about for content than there is for content. Like which would be relatively ra-- I mean-
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... you know, th- th- in some industries, there's probably more people writing about football than there are people playing football. But there's far more people paying attention to the playing of the football than the critique of the football.
- HDHarry Dry
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
It spreads so much more, uh, fast. Like being critical of something is incredibly memetic. Being for something is actually quite anti-memetic. So James, Element James, what was the company that was slandering Element? Do you remember it, um, that James was doing the lawsuit against?
- HDHarry Dry
Fuck. Not Tides. Yeah. Uh, the AI health checking app.
- CWChris Williamson
Review platform.
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah, like Waves or something.
- CWChris Williamson
That was, that was slandering them with a load of fake information that got millions of views.
- HDHarry Dry
Hm.
- CWChris Williamson
It was completely like the guy's butchered all of the studies-
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... all the claims that he was making. It-- But then the apology gets like a few thousand views.
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And it's like the, the-
- HDHarry Dry
Mm-hmm
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, disparity between that. We was looking at somebody where there was this essay writer, and you can see this a lot with people that become these professional critics, where they'll have a piece that attacks a Chris or attacks somebody, and it goes super viral. And then you click on it, and you scroll back, and you go, "Oh, they've been doing this critique thing for a while." And you go-- You see when the moment they once did it, everything spiked. But if you go back further, it was just in the void. It was always optimistic or, or, or slightly creative content that wasn't working, and then this thing started to work. It's quite sad.
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
But it-
- 1:52:15 – 1:55:36
The Best Rules of Great Communication
- CWChris Williamson
that?"
- JCJimmy Carr
Can I ask you, it's quite a hard question, but we had Orwell's five rules of writing. Now what would your five rules of communication be?
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, that's good. Um, speak precisely whenever possible, which is not using more or fewer words than are needed. It's never bad to ask the question why. Then sort of, "What do you mean by that? Why? What do you mean?" Like those little moments-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yes
- CWChris Williamson
... I think allow people to dig deeper. Um-
- JCJimmy Carr
I like it when you say, you say it like it's very quite infrequent, but you go, "Say more."
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Say more.
- JCJimmy Carr
Say more.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
So like just to give someone and you know that they've got more.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, just give them a little, a little tickle.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's got nothing-
- CWChris Williamson
But it's being encouraging
- JCJimmy Carr
... it's permission. They're being polite in the podcast and going, "I don't want to say too much here. I feel like I'm, I'm monologuing."
- CWChris Williamson
Bring it on.
- JCJimmy Carr
And you go, "No, no."
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
And you... That permission is great.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, so that's yes, and-ing. Uh, what else would I say? Using silence is probably one of the best tools. So just shutting the fuck up and giving the room space to breathe. And okay. Well, actually, and you go, "Oh, there we go." It was just a half step off from the next insight that you wanted to give out there, and you're not making somebody rush, you know, you know, sort of driving them through it. Uh, those would be some, those would be some.
- GMGeorge Mack
I think that talking is the best example that the 10,000-hour rule is a load of-
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- GMGeorge Mack
... nonsense because everybody has done 10,000 hours, yet it doesn't seem to-
- CWChris Williamson
Not everybody is a world-class conversationalist.
- GMGeorge Mack
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
But a- again-
- GMGeorge Mack
Zero
- CWChris Williamson
... very, very, um, precise practice. I mean, me and you had this idea a long time ago. One of our prescriptions was if you want to get better at communication, have a fake podcast with a friend where you put your phone down on record once a week for half an hour, phone's out of the room. You don't need to publish it. You don't need to put it anywhere. Listen back to it and listen to your verbal tics and the flow of your conversation and how you talk over each other or how you actually give them a little bit s- "Oh, I quite like the way that..." If you really, really, really want to do it. But the easiest way to do it is to actually have a project. Like somebody who thinks, "I want to become funnier," will take so much longer to become funny than somebody who has to step on stage and have all of the pressure of an audience. Someone that goes, "I really want to improve my writing." You go, "You're so good at writing." "How do I improve my writing?" You go, "Are you writing for anything? Are you publishing anything at the moment?" "No." Well, you don't have the pressure of developing your writing skill. Oh, you, you, you have done really well with your communication. Are you, are you part of a project that requires you to communicate with enough pressure and scrutiny that means that you need to hone the skill? And if not-
- JCJimmy Carr
I think this is like it's the Hormozi's thing of like going, it's the optionality. People want to get like the action perfection ratio is all wrong.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JCJimmy Carr
People want to get kind of brilliant at something before they even start and to have a perfect record, and I love the idea of like just being messy, just having a messy start, trying something. Like you don't talk about jokes, you just try them.
- 1:55:36 – 2:05:22
Is Living Longer Actually a Good Thing?
- CWChris Williamson
I..."
- GMGeorge Mack
And isn't it ironic that a lot of the current, uh, expert class is built off some anti-expert at one point that went against it?
- CWChris Williamson
How so?
- GMGeorge Mack
Well, you go... If you go back through most of science, um, a lot of... Ga- Galileo Going against the Catholic Church-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm
- GMGeorge Mack
... who were the expertise at the time-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm
- GMGeorge Mack
... was, uh, remarkably unpopular.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
Conformity is a coffin, and heresy is a cradle.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Mm. Yeah, it's interesting. I've told you that story about Copernicus, right? About the fact that he had the same insight as, uh, Galileo 100 years earlier, and sort of squeaked it out on his deathbed. He had-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... this great work, de la, De Revolutionibus.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And, uh, he was worried about ire from the church, so had the same heliocentric, like, learning, and it took a full century to do the next one. And you might say, "Well, you know, stupid Copernicus. He should've said it. He should've shouted it from the rooftops." But Galileo was forced to recant, kept under hou- house arrest for the rest of his life, like, nearly killed. It w- his treatment justifies the silence of the guy that came 100 years before him.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's the first, uh, the first humiliation. You familiar with that?
- CWChris Williamson
No.
- JCJimmy Carr
Three humiliations. So Copernicus was the first. We're not the center of the universe. Darwin was the second. We're no different to the animals.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Mm.
- JCJimmy Carr
And then, um, Freud was the third. We're not even in control of our minds. And then the fourth is AI. We're no longer the smartest thing, which is kind of... I mean, it's not that humiliating. I can live with it.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, when we, when you've created it, I think there's a, a degree of all of us feeling like we contr- That's why people have a-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, we did it.
- CWChris Williamson
But we-
- JCJimmy Carr
We did it, guys.
- CWChris Williamson
Part of-
- JCJimmy Carr
We did it.
- CWChris Williamson
Some Jimmy Carr bull-
- JCJimmy Carr
AGI. We did it, guys
- CWChris Williamson
... will be in the corpus that it's being trained on, right?
- JCJimmy Carr
[laughs] Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting that thing of the, um, yeah, that kind of next step if we get to it, if there's a abundance in the future. It'd be amazing.
- 2:05:22 – 2:09:23
Who Should Be Britain’s Next Prime Minister?
- HDHarry Dry
Simple question. Who do you want to be the next Prime Minister of England?
- CWChris Williamson
The-
- HDHarry Dry
Oh
- CWChris Williamson
... assuming there's no, like, uh, they can be, they want to be.
- HDHarry Dry
Anyone in the world. You could, you could, you could ship them in at a, a la FedEx.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, that's good. Dominic Cummings.
- HDHarry Dry
He had a go. He had a go. And he, and he... I think the thing with DC-
- CWChris Williamson
He didn't ask who do I think could get elected.
- HDHarry Dry
Okay. The, my ex- I'm gonna... You got me talking, right? Mr. Cummings. Um, I think he's really competent and, and not that likable, and I feel like there's a real kind of like what you want in a, in a leader is really competent while also being kind of likable.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. What was Keir Starmer?
- HDHarry Dry
Neither, man.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- JCJimmy Carr
I mean, he's gone now, but I don't think anyone's gonna forget Keith Starmer in a hurry.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- HDHarry Dry
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Lee Kuan Yew. Lee Kuan Yew would be good.
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah. Dream that Lee, eh?
- JCJimmy Carr
Lee Kuan Yew's really interesting because that, that kind of Singapore example. There's a guy called Roger Bootle, um, who's a brilliant economist and a great writer. Um, I know him a little bit, and I think if you look at Roger Bootle's kind of assessment of what Britain needs, it's a really good checklist of what... Like, he says there's no silver bullet. There's no big solution that changes everything, and he gives these eight examples from around the world of, like, where extraordinary things have happened and countries have turned themselves around. So from post-war Germany to post-war France to South Korea, North Korea, uh, Singapore, all of these different examples of, like, how did those economic miracles happen? How did people get from a relatively poor circumstance to abundance? And it's, it's brilliant because it's like, it's lots of little things done right. I think he'd be a great guy to have in charge.
- HDHarry Dry
And can he talk? Does-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, he's-
- HDHarry Dry
... Paddy speak and talk?
- JCJimmy Carr
He's, he's, uh, very likable, and his thing is, like, it's not really about the, uh... He's a big fan of the, um, the Singaporean dude, uh, but he's not really about, like, uh, charisma in the leader. It's more about, okay, these are the things-
- HDHarry Dry
Yeah
- JCJimmy Carr
... that you need to do. These are the priorities that a country needs to have, and you need to know what, um, what GDP is for. You need to know what, what are you doing this for? Why do you need this to be? What's the, what's the purpose of this nation? What's the point of it? And that's... he's very good on that stuff.
- CWChris Williamson
Who do you want, Harry?
- HDHarry Dry
My... So we, I talked about this yesterday. I genuinely... The girl I'm dating, I think, would be a good pick. Um-
- JCJimmy Carr
Keep her busy, right?
- CWChris Williamson
Bro, bring your fucking chick to work day.
- HDHarry Dry
Uh, that's who I'd pick. Right, like, right here, right now, I'd bet she's American, so I'm not sure how that would go down.
- CWChris Williamson
Bring your chick to work day. This is, this is what's happening. You're gonna implant your lady at the top of the country.
Episode duration: 2:09:24
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Transcript of episode KP77cRMzKAg
