Modern WisdomMostly Wise #1 - Matt McCusker, Andrew Huberman & Tom Segura
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,120 words- 0:00 – 5:24
Should All Men Be Taking Erectile Dysfunction Medication?
- CWChris Williamson
I keep seeing tweets about how everyone should be taking erectile dysfunction medication. Is that true?
- MMMatt McCusker
Low grade whatever.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah, like low grade boner.
- CWChris Williamson
Tadalafil.
- SPSpeaker
So tadalafil, which is the, uh, generic name for Cialis-
- MMMatt McCusker
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... was developed first as a prostate health drug, and then people took more of it and realized that at higher dosages it can be, uh, effective for erectile dysfunction. But-
- MMMatt McCusker
But low dose is good for prostate health
- SPSpeaker
... low dose, like 2.5 to 5 milligrams per day, is very helpful for profusion of the prostate, and also it causes vasodilation in the brain, so things like strokes. I mean, you want blood flow, right?
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
You don't want excessive blood flow or your- you've got a headache from it. But our, uh, chair of male sexual health and urology at Stanford, Mike Eisenberg, he came on the podcast and he said pretty much every male over 40 or so should be taking about 2.5 to 5 milligrams per day.
- MMMatt McCusker
Does it still get you pretty hard too?
- SPSpeaker
It definitely will improve or-
- MMMatt McCusker
[laughs] Just curious.
- SPSpeaker
It, it, it will definitely, um, it, it will definitely notch up, like, e- erectile strength, but unlike, you know, some health people out there, I, I'm not, like, using the calipers to measure the strength.
- MMMatt McCusker
You're not putting... Yeah, you're not putting them-
- SPSpeaker
I ask someone else to measure and the, and, and, and she tells me that, like, you know, n- not, you know, it's all good. But-
- MMMatt McCusker
I know what you mean.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
You just tell her to clo- close her hand, close her hand if she can? [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Well, no, I've never actually, I've never actually subjected her to the grip test. Um, you know, I don't want to tempt anybody. Um, but in all seriousness-
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... you know, the drug, this drug that was developed for vasodilation, which is now used for erectile dysfunction, it really was developed first as a prostate health drug. And a lot of sitting... The, the prostate's weird too, 'cause it doesn't get a lot of blood flow compared to other tissues. Doesn't have as-
- CWChris Williamson
Speak for yourself
- SPSpeaker
... um, same immune system. Uh, yeah. Well, you know.
- MMMatt McCusker
What if you sit with a plug in?
- SPSpeaker
We, uh, we're kegeling all day, so you know.
- MMMatt McCusker
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
We realized... You know, Chris had to pull up to this little piece of tape so we didn't catch him kegeling-
- 5:24 – 8:28
The GLP-1-Free Way to Get Lean
- MMMatt McCusker
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
You know?
- CWChris Williamson
I want to know your morning routine.
- MMMatt McCusker
Mine?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Matt, like, you, Andrew spent his, a long time, like, optimizing people's mornings.
- MMMatt McCusker
True.
- CWChris Williamson
I want to know what your morning routine looks like.
- MMMatt McCusker
I, I, well, I heard... You were talking about cortisol for a while, so I was waking up and just chugging coffee, being like, "I'm upping my cortisol," and I would just have, like, a panic attack in my office and be like-
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- MMMatt McCusker
I don't know, man. I don't know if I'm cut out for this. But no, I wake up, uh, I wake up early, man, like 6:30. Every other day I'll take my kids to school, and then I just go to the gym for like an hour and then I'm good.
- CWChris Williamson
Are they off on the other days?
- MMMatt McCusker
No, my wife does.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, okay.
- MMMatt McCusker
Oh.
- CWChris Williamson
I thought you were like, "They don't go to school every day."
- MMMatt McCusker
[laughs] Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
I was like, I was like, "Are you adopting?"
- MMMatt McCusker
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
'Cause that sounds like a good ride.
- MMMatt McCusker
No, man. We, uh, but yeah, I'm, I'm pretty... Honestly, I'm more locked in than I've ever beenI'm up every day, 6:30, and, you know, I just, um, I work out almost every day.
- SPSpeaker
Nice.
- MMMatt McCusker
I got fat. I got, like, fatter than I ever was, so I'm trying to, like, pay for two years, two and a half years of bad eating, so I'm losing.
- SPSpeaker
You look good, Ben.
- MMMatt McCusker
Thank you, man.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, you look good.
- MMMatt McCusker
You guys all look great.
- SPSpeaker
You, you do the... And no shame if anyone does it, anyone on the GLP. I'm not. I haven't tried them yet.
- MMMatt McCusker
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
No?
- MMMatt McCusker
Is that the, that's like the-
- 8:28 – 14:02
Why Comedians Make Great Actors
- SPSpeaker
I have a question about the, uh, the whole thing with comedians and acting.
- TSTom Segura
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
How come they're, they're so good at it? Like, it seems like, like, Theo's got a... I haven't seen The Busboys yet.
- TSTom Segura
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
But I saw the trailer. I'm like, "Theo can act."
- TSTom Segura
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
You know? And then I, obviously, like, Jim Carrey is a comedian actor.
- TSTom Segura
Oh, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Like, all these people, like, all these comedian actors, comedian actors, comedian ac- Whitney will show up in things. So is it an easy jump?
- TSTom Segura
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
And if so, why?
- TSTom Segura
I think it's actually, like, it's really dependent. Some can really do it, some can't. And the ones that can really do it have the dramatic capacity to do it, right? Like, when you think of, like, Jim Carrey, Robin Williams, those guys were, like, incredible comedians, but they have this darkness and sadness within them, which I think lends itself to dramatic acting.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TSTom Segura
But I don't think that that's across the board, because you s- I've seen a lot of comedians that are shit actors.
- SPSpeaker
Uh-huh.
- TSTom Segura
And then some that, some that really impress you. But it's kinda like-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- TSTom Segura
... you just never know.
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah.
- TSTom Segura
You just never know.
- MMMatt McCusker
It's hard, too, 'cause you don't get feedback. When you just stand up-
- TSTom Segura
That's true
- MMMatt McCusker
... people laugh. When you, when you act, people go, "All right. That's fine. Keep going."
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- TSTom Segura
Yeah, yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
And you're like, "Is that all? Is that the best?" Or, like, "What are, what are we doing here?"
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
And then you s- I started being like, "Well, they don't like..." You don't even get feedback, and then you hear, someone will do a scene and the whole, like, staff will clap, and you're just like, "Fuck yeah. There was feedback. I'm not getting it right now." [laughs]
- TSTom Segura
Yeah. Well, the thing is about-
- SPSpeaker
No
- 14:02 – 25:33
What Science Reveals About Comedians
- TSTom Segura
it.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- TSTom Segura
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Has there been any research done on comedians? Like, if, if we put Tom and Matt in a lab, do you think there's some scans or tests or biomarkers that you could do on them that would identify what they've done as a career?
- SPSpeaker
Oh, that's a tough one. The, the only science that pops to mind is, uh, and Tom and I have talked about this before, but is, like, there are studies, there's some interesting studies. Like, the, the classic studies of memory were all done on this guy HM, this patient who had damage to the hippocampus, like a critical region of the brain for encoding memories, and you could walk in, introduce yourself, walk out, and then five minutes later you walk in, he would not remember your name. And they tested, you know, he wasn't faking it. They kept, he was-
- TSTom Segura
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... at this for decades. And if you told him a joke, he'd laugh, and if you came back and told him the joke again, he would laugh a little less each time.
- TSTom Segura
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Even though he was completely unaware that he'd heard the joke before. So that's kind of interesting, right?
- TSTom Segura
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
There's something kind of unconscious. And then I think it was you, Tom, that said this, that there's also something weird about comedy, which is for many other things like visual art or music, like if you don't like opera and then you listen to a lot of it and you start looking for certain things and you kind of develop a, a, a sense of the nuance, you can start to really like it. But with comedy, it either lands with you-
- TSTom Segura
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... or it doesn't, and if you hear-
- TSTom Segura
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... something you don't more than once, it just sounds worse.
- TSTom Segura
I think that it's the most, like art is sp- is subjective obviously, and, you know, you have involuntary reactions to like, "I like this painting. I like this song."
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- TSTom Segura
Right? But, like, what I was saying is like you could see a painting and not care for it, but maybe somebody comes to you and, like, explains the history or the, the, the, the technique that was used, and then all of a sudden you start to appreciate it more. But I think if you go like, "That's not funny," it doesn't matter who tells you what. You're just like-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- TSTom Segura
... "It's not funny to me."
- SPSpeaker
Right. Yeah.
- TSTom Segura
You know?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TSTom Segura
So in that sense, I think you have, like, the most, people have a com- completely involuntary reaction to what they find funny or not funny.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. But you, it's pretty hard to deny good music. I think music and beauty are two things that sort of-
- SPSpeaker
True
- CWChris Williamson
... penetrate in that way. Kanye, dude, Kanye, like, just not had a great run over the last five years-
- TSTom Segura
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... like brand-wise.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- 25:33 – 30:39
How Love Island Manipulates Sleep
- CWChris Williamson
at checkout.
- SPSpeaker
I- I'm still wondering if Chris's experience on reality TV made him a, a better actor or better at reality.
- TSTom Segura
Ooh.
- CWChris Williamson
Fuck, dude. I mean, I was-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Oh my God. That was 11 years ago, and I did-
- TSTom Segura
What show was it?
- CWChris Williamson
Love Island.
- TSTom Segura
Oh.
- CWChris Williamson
Season one.
- SPSpeaker
You'll never, you'll never get away-
- CWChris Williamson
I was the first person through the doors-
- TSTom Segura
Love Island
- CWChris Williamson
... of Love Island season one.
- TSTom Segura
What?
- SPSpeaker
Love Island.
- TSTom Segura
Brit, Brit hotties all together-
- CWChris Williamson
Correct
- TSTom Segura
... on an island?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- TSTom Segura
Nice.
- CWChris Williamson
Me, I was the hottie.
- TSTom Segura
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, that's right.
- TSTom Segura
Sure. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Yeah, dude. That was a-
- SPSpeaker
That's awesome
- CWChris Williamson
... it was kind of like Navy SEAL Hell Week-
- TSTom Segura
Mm-hmm
- 30:39 – 46:28
Is Retardmaxxing the New Way of Living?
- SPSpeaker
Are you threatened by the retardmaxxing movement?
- TSTom Segura
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Have you heard about this? That's a great question.
- TSTom Segura
Fuck you, dude.
- SPSpeaker
That's a great question.
- TSTom Segura
You motherfucker.
- SPSpeaker
No, that's a good question.
- TSTom Segura
He looks right at me.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Yeah. [laughs] Do you feel-
- TSTom Segura
Let me answer that the way I think you intended it. Yes, I am personally offended.
- SPSpeaker
Threatened. No, threatened. Threatened.
- TSTom Segura
Wait. Threatened.
- SPSpeaker
You wake up and you're, are you like-
- TSTom Segura
Threatened by the retardmaxxing
- SPSpeaker
... I'm retardmaxxing today? Is that what you think? [laughs] What is retardmaxxing?
- TSTom Segura
All right. All right.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] It's awesome. N- no, I actually [laughs]
- TSTom Segura
What is this?
- SPSpeaker
I heard of lookmaxxing. Yeah. There's lookmaxxing. What's retard- Then there's a guy who does what's called retardmaxxing, which is, was popularized by, of all people, Marc Andreessen, who's easily one of the smartest people I've ever, ever met.
- TSTom Segura
Uh-huh.
- SPSpeaker
Know Marc real well. Um, he's a big fan of retardmaxxing. Retardmaxxing is this guy on the internet who [laughs] what, you wanna explain?
- TSTom Segura
No, I'm loving this.
- SPSpeaker
The guy's wonderful. Is, so, you know, with all the stuff about get up in the morning and, you know, do this and do that, and, you know, when-
- TSTom Segura
Don't be retarded
- SPSpeaker
... when you have a problem or all the kind of stuff that, that, you know, Chris covers, you know, like about emerging dynamics of male-female relationships-
- TSTom Segura
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... and self-perception and philosophy, and he interviews like, you know, real thinkers, and they have British accents and that kind of thing. This guy sits in his backyard, it's basically a farm, and he does this thing that he calls retardmaxxing, which is where you basically just don't think about shit at all.
- TSTom Segura
Uh-huh.
- SPSpeaker
You just do what needs to be done. If something bothers you, you just ignore it.
- TSTom Segura
Wait, is this the, the, the CEO that is like, "I don't self-reflect"?
- 46:28 – 49:32
The Risk of Recreating Your Ex With AI
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
There's people making, uh, AI versions of their exes. Have you seen this?
- TSTom Segura
What?
- SPSpeaker
What?
- TSTom Segura
What are you...
- SPSpeaker
Oh, man, I could have fun with that. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Fucking unbelievable. So-
- TSTom Segura
Pull it up. All right
- CWChris Williamson
... you load in all of the previous chats that you've had with your ex-girlfriend or ex-boyfriend-
- TSTom Segura
Oh my God.
- SPSpeaker
Stop. This is so good
- CWChris Williamson
... and all of the photos, and then you train the AI to create an exact replica of them, and they know where you've been on holiday and your little in-jokes and the cute names that you call each other and all of your memories. And then basically it's like you're still in a relationship with them, like you never broke up.
- TSTom Segura
That seems like a healthy thing to do.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Well, I thought you meant-
- TSTom Segura
Should I make-
- SPSpeaker
I could just... Sorry, you're saying to, to s- to indulge in this? Oh, I, I thought you meant to put it out to the internet. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, that you could date my ex?
- SPSpeaker
To just attack the inter- [laughs] to attack the internet with this.
- CWChris Williamson
Date my ex.
- TSTom Segura
This was my experience.
- SPSpeaker
You can see how this went.
- TSTom Segura
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
I would just, I would just fight with it all. I would-
- TSTom Segura
[laughs] Yeah. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Hey, look, I know that you think I might have been in the wrong here.
- SPSpeaker
How it started, how it ended.
- CWChris Williamson
But you can interact with my ex for five minutes.
- TSTom Segura
Who's the asshole? Me or Melissa?
- CWChris Williamson
Look at the gaslighting.
- TSTom Segura
Yeah. Yeah.
- 49:32 – 52:53
Has Surveillance Killed Serial Killers?
- SPSpeaker
... it's a training data.
- TSTom Segura
Wait, do you ever think about, you know how you're talking about cameras everywhere? Do you think that with the amount of cameras out today, that's why we don't have serial killers really anymore? Like, you know what I mean?
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- TSTom Segura
'Cause, like-
- SPSpeaker
Now they just do mass shootings.
- TSTom Segura
Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TSTom Segura
But we just said-
- SPSpeaker
They get all, they all get... It's, like, very economical to get it all done at once.
- TSTom Segura
It's surely it's the forensics.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- TSTom Segura
Forensics, but also cameras are-
- MMMatt McCusker
Or, yeah
- TSTom Segura
... everywhere.
- MMMatt McCusker
Dude, Ring doorbells, we just, we got one not long ago, and you don't re- it's crystal clear audio. So you, I'll get, like, in a fight with my wife, walk outside and be like, "Fuck this," and I'll be like-
- TSTom Segura
[laughs]
- MMMatt McCusker
... "Oh, shit, I'm right on camera." Being like, "Yeah, you're fucked up, man."
- SPSpeaker
She's gonna build that into the script.
- MMMatt McCusker
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Just watch out.
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah, I need to grow up. Fuck you.
- TSTom Segura
Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
And walk out. I'm like, "Ah, shit."
- TSTom Segura
That's when you feed the Ring doorbell-
- MMMatt McCusker
Damn it
- TSTom Segura
... camera into your ex AI.
- SPSpeaker
That's, I mean, yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
No, they're everywhere. Everywh- they're on, like, every street. There's-
- TSTom Segura
'Cause they-
- 52:53 – 57:57
Falling is a Billion-Dollar Industry
- TSTom Segura
Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
Just be honest.
- TSTom Segura
Watch, watch, watch this.
- CWChris Williamson
This is some type of gas station, and the awning or some type of structure-
- MMMatt McCusker
Oh, shit
- CWChris Williamson
... completely collapses. Shoddy construction work. It's not quite infrastructure, but look who springs into action.
- TSTom Segura
No shit.
- SPSpeaker
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
A Black man loitering outside the, uh, gas station.
- TSTom Segura
This is his big come up.
- CWChris Williamson
Hustles over to get himself tucked under to pretend he was caught in the wreckage for a settlement.
- TSTom Segura
That's pretty-
- MMMatt McCusker
$20,000.
- TSTom Segura
That's just thinking quick.
- SPSpeaker
I mean, that's quick.
- CWChris Williamson
$20,000. Two cartons of Newports and 1,000. I'll be out of here.
- TSTom Segura
I'm not mad at that guy, dude.
- CWChris Williamson
Shoddy construction.
- SPSpeaker
No.
- TSTom Segura
That's...
- MMMatt McCusker
It's awesome.
- TSTom Segura
That's the American dream.
- SPSpeaker
It's hilarious too.
- TSTom Segura
That is the American dream right there.
- MMMatt McCusker
I, I was thinking about this the other day. Falling is like a billion-dollar industry.
- TSTom Segura
Falling?
- MMMatt McCusker
Just falling. If you fall, there's billions of dollars that get paid out every year in America for g- uh, like-
- TSTom Segura
Dude, gravity's free
- MMMatt McCusker
... dudes falling.
- TSTom Segura
This is the big- this is the biggest life hack of all time.
- 57:57 – 1:01:05
Are NASA Conspiracies Going Too Far?
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
This is crazy. I have otherwise completely rational friends who do not believe that the Challenger explosion was real.
- MMMatt McCusker
What?
- SPSpeaker
That's like their new thing. Yes. The n- the number of conspiracies that actually hook now-
- MMMatt McCusker
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... with otherwise basically reasonable people is staggering. Have you ever looked at any, and I mean any post from NASA on Instagram and gone to the comments?
- CWChris Williamson
No. Can we do this?
- SPSpeaker
Any, any fucking image. They're like... You know, like, they'll be like, "There's people on the space station right now. Look at this im-" And everyone's like, "Fake. AI."
- MMMatt McCusker
[laughing] Bullshit.
- SPSpeaker
"You guys are trying to fucking ruin the... Like, you're tricking us. This is bullshit. Who's buying this shit?" Like, thousands of comments-
- MMMatt McCusker
Well, isn't it-
- SPSpeaker
... for anything they post
- MMMatt McCusker
... the word on the street is that NASA was founded by, like, a Satanist.
- SPSpeaker
Uh-huh.
- MMMatt McCusker
That's what someone said. There was like a-
- SPSpeaker
This is what I'm fucking talking about.
- MMMatt McCusker
Yo, that's all I'm saying.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
Could, that could be true, though. That could be true. The Satanist founded NASA.
- SPSpeaker
Well, as a, as like you're a logical, science-based person-
- MMMatt McCusker
That's-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, I believe in science and engineering
- MMMatt McCusker
... I love Maui. Look at that.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, this is nice.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, but that's l-
- MMMatt McCusker
That's Mother's Day
- SPSpeaker
... okay.
- MMMatt McCusker
Do, uh, sort by newest.
- SPSpeaker
That little error.
- CWChris Williamson
Here we go. More propaganda.
- 1:01:05 – 1:12:00
Are These the Craziest Conspiracy Theories?
- SPSpeaker
Do you feel like any of the, let's say, big ones of the top 10 are legitimate to or interesting to you?
- MMMatt McCusker
We need a category and a view.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
We need, what are the top 10?
- SPSpeaker
Because there's so many, right?
- MMMatt McCusker
Well-
- SPSpeaker
I mean, there's, like, the Pizzagate thing. There's the Adrenochrome thing.
- MMMatt McCusker
Moon landing is a huge one.
- SPSpeaker
The Moon landing thing seems pretty easy for NASA to resolve if they actually care enough to resolve it, right? Um, you know-I don't doubt that the photos were, uh, you know, there was some exposure adjustments perhaps- Yeah ... done to those photos, but that's not what people are claiming, right? Right. No. People are claiming this was fabricated. A set. It was a set. So it should be pretty straightforward, right? Here, I mean, here's... I'm always agnostic about it, 'cause it's like, it, yeah, could totally be real 100%, but if we were politically pressured to beat Russia, they could totally do a set and be like, "Yeah, we did it. We won." You know, I feel like the day that Elon claims that the moon landing was fake- True ... I might get on board- That's a good- [laughs] ... that hypothesis. Yeah. [laughs] Because he knows a lot about this whole rocket space thing. Yeah, yeah, true. And he's not afraid to say whatever. Yeah. And he's- Yeah, no one's thinking that Elon's being paid off ... he, he's not spending his t- let's, let's put it this way, he's not spending his time going on it to go back there. Mm-hmm. He's got a different target. Yeah. And I would think that he would raise his voice. Yeah. But I don't know Elon. That's fair. He, he's not one of the, the people I was referring to earlier. I've, I've never met him. We've been in the same, same physical space or- Mm-hmm ... with other people at a gathering, but I've never actually spoken to him. So- There's, there's definitely something that happens with conspiracies if you're sat around a table, especially with people that spend a good bit of time thinking about conspiracy theories. Yeah. Which I, I don't. I love listening to people talk about them. Sure. And there's kind of like this race to the bottom of the iceberg where people go, "Oh, what? You, you, you think that Epstein killed himself? Well, really, what happened? Oh, you think that Epstein didn't kill himself? Well, actually, what ha- he transcended to a third, a fifth dimension," and da, da, da, da. Yeah. And it al- it's like this weird one-upmanship game- Yes ... of who's got the most intense, deep 4chan rabbit hole- Yeah, he didn't- ... that they've gone down ... uh, guys, he didn't kill himself. [laughs] I mean, come on. There was a suicide note. [laughs] There was a suicide note that was written, like, a three-year-old- His roommate, have you seen what his roommate did? His roommate's, like, an ex-cop, right, who's, uh, doing, I think doing four life sentences. Oh, the cellmate that was the murder- Yeah ... the cop murder for hire? Yeah, like, I'm gonna trust that guy? You know? Yeah. The guards were chilling. There's somebody going up the stairs. There was the, there was the... Yeah, right. Like, also he was a narcissist. Everyone agrees on that. Like, they don't tend to kill themselves. Yeah. Like, there's something just... I mean, who knows? Maybe- But there's things that lend himself- Maybe he was serious. I, I saw that note the other day online, and maybe he was like, "Okay, this is no fun. I'm out." But, like, does not seem consistent with everything else. There's things that lend it- itself to... I mean, he also basically changed his will, uh, what, two or three days before, where he- Did you know that? Yeah, he passed everything to his brother. Mm-hmm. Which you could interpret as somebody getting ready- Mm-hmm ... to check out. Mm. The, uh, hyoid bone that snapped, uh, if you talk to certain forensic pathologists, they say it's more consistent with a homicide than a suicide, the way, the force with which it was broken. Mm-hmm. Right? So that lends itself to murder- Mm ... not suicide. But yeah, it just kind of depends on- Yeah ... I mean- I, I, I Retardmaxxing conspiracy theories. Yeah. I go, "Maybe. I don't know." Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Literally go, "I don't know." That way, everyone, you, it's, you're just perfectly in the middle, 'cause I genuinely have no idea- Yeah, but, but what do you do? Okay, you don't know ... I have no... I genuinely, if I, if I'm- You're agnostic. Yeah, I have no idea. Like, it's, I, it's plausible that it was all a giant government coverup. Also, I don't know. Look, I have no idea. People I know that have worked- Literally just like, "I don't know" ... in, in the government doing, you know, like, spooky shit, like on- Mm ... online spooky shit and that kind of thing, will tell you that the government is pretty inefficient, even at the highest levels, that it would be very hard to do clandestine things within the most effective organizations. Mm. Their sub-organizations. So if somebody wanted to run countercurrent to, like, everyone around them and be the, you know... That's tough. You could get a small collection of people, but then it's hard to, to keep a secret, right? Mm. Yeah. As we know, human beings. Mm. I don't know. The Epstein thing was wild. I have to say, that, that blew a hole in the internet for a while. Oh, yeah. It was huge. Yeah. You had people from the right who were on that list sending the emails, on the left. What was so interesting to me is that, kinda like the video theory that I had earlier, [laughs] you know, which is just a thought and a theory really, the files were interesting even though they were incomplete, because they were real-time correspondence. It wasn't like, "I heard someone say this, and then they said that." Mm-hmm. It wasn't a deposition, right? Mm. These were the real- Yeah ... emails at the time. You could have fed it into a chatbot and had a conversation with it. Well, have you seen this thing? There's this, um, like- It's pretty awesome ... Gmail where they turned all the conversations- So good. Yeah, so good. Yeah. And then they have another one which is a plot, where you can put anyone's name in and it shows the number of conversations they had with him over time. Like, w- it's w- it's wild. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, he sat at the nexus of a lot of different people, organizations, and it transcended, again, right, left. It transcended academia. I mean, he was connected. He was so connected. And what's wild is the people who were approaching him and wanting his time, many of them had tons of money, tons of public accolades or private accolades. Like, they didn't... Like, I don't understand how it is that people just continued to seek him out. It was wild. Yeah. Wild. It was really interesting. Crazy that somebody was that connected to so many different facets of, of people and life. And they overlooked the fact that he had already been convicted of- Yeah, that was the wild one, where it was just kinda like i- if you didn't know that, whatever. But, like, when people are like, "Yeah, this is public record," and you're like, "Eh." Yeah, so like I think that- Like, Bill Gates met up with him ... so, so like not c- a conspiracy theory. I'll- Yeah ... and you can look this up. There was a guy I know, 'cause he was kind of peripheral to the science community. I never met him. He was actually kind of a lousy failed scientist named Al Seckel. Mm. This great big fat guy who, uh, studied visual illusions, right? And but he, his data were always kind of eh. Anyway, he ended up marrying Ghislaine Maxwell's sister. Mm-hmm. He was in charge with a small group of other people of basically trying to bury, uh, Epstein's sex offender status after he l- you know, was convicted the first time. Oh, was he the one that helped to get all of the headlines out so that if you searched his name- Yeah, so they created like Jeff Epstein- ... it would be on the fifth page? ... whatever, sports or whatever, and so kept putting this stuff out. Yeah, yeah. What happened to him? He was found dead at the bottom of a cliff in, like, 2015 or something. The French government won't comment on cause of death. Whoa. Like, there are a lot of dead people around this. There's a, another conspiracy that there was, uh, interest, that like I was like, "Oh, I didn't know what hap-" It felt like the... You know when you go, like you, you pick up on stories but you don't really follow it? Which was the, um, the attempt, the Butler assassination attempt, you know, of Epstei- Of Trump? No, no, of Trump. Oh, Trump. Oh. Where you're like, "Oh, this guy, you know, was a shooter," and then it just kind of- You mean the recent thing?The, not the- First one ... not the first one, the one where he was campaigning [laughs] There's fucking three now. Fuck. Okay, so hold on. Wait, there's three?
- MMMatt McCusker
The golf course one.
- SPSpeaker
There's the, there's the-
- MMMatt McCusker
Do you remember?
- SPSpeaker
The one in Pennsylvania?
- MMMatt McCusker
No.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
That's what I'm talking about.
- SPSpeaker
The outdoor one.
- MMMatt McCusker
That's what I'm talking about.
- SPSpeaker
The ear. That was the ear. The ear.
- MMMatt McCusker
The ear. That's what I'm talking about.
- SPSpeaker
Okay, you're talking about that.
- MMMatt McCusker
That one, where it was-
- SPSpeaker
Have we ever seen a photo of that guy?
- MMMatt McCusker
Well, the thing is, they, the investigation was just, like, shut down. Like, they just go, "This is what happened," and then there's no further investigation.
- SPSpeaker
Trump's got him living in a box behind his desk.
- MMMatt McCusker
Yes.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] It's a weird- With a ball gag, just behind his desk. [laughs] Yes. I mean, it's, what? Why? He's like, "I'll handle the punishment." Yeah. Why don't we have more of, of this story? Like, it just kind of-
- MMMatt McCusker
Uh-huh.
- SPSpeaker
Mm. It fucking evaporates
- MMMatt McCusker
... a fucking modern-day assassination attempt at, with a rifle-
- 1:12:00 – 1:17:08
The Origins of the Secret Service
- SPSpeaker
um, it was interesting. Secret Service was started as an attempt, uh, as, as a, a, a unit within the government against counterfeiting.
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah, counterfeiting.
- SPSpeaker
That's how it started. Yeah, yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
What?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. That's right. That's how they started. And they still- If you have counterfeit bills, Secret Service gets-
- MMMatt McCusker
They still visit you today if you have counterfeit bills.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Yeah, they handle counterfeiting.
- MMMatt McCusker
Wow. Did George Floyd get popped?
- SPSpeaker
No, not by the Secret Service.
- MMMatt McCusker
Was he, like, using counterfeit money?
- SPSpeaker
No, at a local level, it's like you gotta be counterfeiting a lot.
- MMMatt McCusker
Oh, okay.
- SPSpeaker
So at a local level they can just turn you out. But if you have, if you're like actually producing-
- MMMatt McCusker
Like, you're the guy that George Floyd bought from.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
Then there's a-
- SPSpeaker
Maybe, maybe
- MMMatt McCusker
... maybe there's, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
If, if you're doing it on a scale that's causing, like, even like a, you know, a larger economic disrupt-
- MMMatt McCusker
Dent in the economy.
- SPSpeaker
They use it a lot in drug, like drug sales. It's like you use counterfeit bills. It's like you can't tell the cops, like, "Somebody gave me counterfeits," so.
- MMMatt McCusker
Wow. Originally created in 1865 to fight counterfeit currency.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
Not to protect the president.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
I know a guy who did counterfeit bills in high school.
- SPSpeaker
Was he any good?
- MMMatt McCusker
They were terrible. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
And-
- 1:17:08 – 1:24:01
Can Cannabis Trigger Psychosis?
- SPSpeaker
But then, like, the THC stuff is way up, right? That's what I- Yeah ... read, the, the consumption of- Yeah ... edibles or, like, the- Yeah ... especially the beverages that have them- Yeah ... are also way up. And some people can do it. And look, my whole thing is, like, people think I'm, like, anti-cannabis or anti-alcohol. Like, you can have a couple drinks a week and be fine if you do a bunch of other things correctly. We're talking about adults, right? With kids and with adults, the cannabis thing is tricky because some people can do it and they're, they're all right. Other people who have a predisposition to psychosis, like, they can end up with some permanent psychosis. People who are predisposition to bipolar. I mean, it's, it's a real thing, and it got very political for a while. Like, I got attacked for saying this when being pro-cannabis was associated with one political party. Then when the pendulum s- You know, it's, it's interesting that the Trump administration was... I am totally apolitical. Like, I, I'm, I'll just come out. Mm. Like, I'm a double hater. I, like, anything I see- That's awesome. That's so awesome. I'm like- That's a great term. [laughs] I grew up punk rocker. Like, fuck 'em all. Like, honestly, like, I see- That's a more activated version- You know? ... of you with conspiracy theories. Yeah. Yeah, double hater is great. You know, like, I don't know about either of them. I'm a double hater. Or, like, I don't know about them. I'm a double hater because I see certain things I like in certain people and what they're doing, and then I see something and I go, "You got to be kidding me." And I see that on both sides. Mm-hmm. So it's very hard for me to reconcile that, right? And it's not like music. I can't just be like, "All right, well-" Not for me ... "Kanye, you know, amazing musician." You know? Yeah. You know? But these other things are a little bit like, I don't know. You know, maybe look into that. But there's the, you know, but the, the cannabis thing has gone from it was a very left associated thing- Yeah ... to now the Trump administration has been making some serious efforts to, you know, legalize psychedelics like ibogaine, which is not a recreational psychedelic. Um, you know, a lot of liberty around substances. And then, then the left will, will sort of, the news will p- the left-leaning news will kind of print against cannabis, then they'll go back and forth, which just tells me one thing, right? 'Cause the right side does this, too, which is that they have no heart. They have no stance. Right. Right? It's all just algorithmic ping pong. Blow with the wind. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So the reality is some people should use cannabis if they want to, no problem. But I hear from lots of, in particular, moms of guys that are in their 20s who, including some people who are doing very well in life, and now their kids are, like, in full-blown psychotic episodes that won't reverse. Jesus. And it's very hard to know who, who that's gonna be, right? But certainly there are people who can use cannabis no problem. Well, even if it's not, uh, it's caused some long-term psychosis problem for me, it's not exactly a performance enhancer, right? Like, this happened, I think, in, was it the 1700s or the 1600s when coffee houses first started in- Oh, yeah. Productivity ... um, in Britain. Yeah. And because people used to go and drink ale all day- Mm ... and they were just fucking drunk.
- CWChris Williamson
... I'm wasted.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
You're not gonna get anything done-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... when you're wasted.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And then coffee comes along and people are like, "What's all of this fucking productivity I got in front of me?" And it's kind of the same. You go, well, cannabis, no one's died from overdosing on THC apart from, I dunno, you get into a car, you fall down some stairs or something, but-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, there's no road rage from caf- well, I mean, there's road rage from caffeine, but no one's coming home and, like, beating up their spouse because they drank too much coffee.
- MMMatt McCusker
I could be the first. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Dude, I gotta show you this video. Seemed pretty mellow.
- MMMatt McCusker
I get mean. No, if I have enough, if I have enough, my wife spat- she, she can tell
- CWChris Williamson
Have you ever seen the video of when the-
- MMMatt McCusker
She'd be like, "You're definitely drinking coffee"
- CWChris Williamson
... drink driving ban-
- MMMatt McCusker
I get-
- CWChris Williamson
... drink dri- drink driving got introduced in the US
- MMMatt McCusker
Just no drinks at all?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, so watch this.
- MMMatt McCusker
That's bullshit, bro.
- CWChris Williamson
Watch this.
- MMMatt McCusker
Get out of here.
- CWChris Williamson
Watch this.
- SPSpeaker
Oh. Oh yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
Other drink driving. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
I love this.
- CWChris Williamson
To restrict drinking and driving here is viewed by some as downright undemocratic.
- SPSpeaker
It's kinda getting common is when a fella can put in a hard day's work, put in 11, 12 hours a day, and then get in your truck and at least drink one or two beers. They're making it laws where you can't drink when you want to.
- CWChris Williamson
Baby, baby in the, baby in the back of the seat.
- MMMatt McCusker
[laughs] Nice.
- 1:24:01 – 1:31:10
Is Nostalgia Ruining the Present?
- SPSpeaker
Did you lift today?
- MMMatt McCusker
The... Huh?
- SPSpeaker
Did you lift today?
- MMMatt McCusker
No, I lifted yesterday.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, that's why. Okay.
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
He's usually a little more chill if he fucking-
- MMMatt McCusker
This is true.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, I know.
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Fucking-
- CWChris Williamson
Jocko, Jocko was moody with me the first time that I did an episode with him, and someone tweeted about it a couple of weeks after and was like, "Hey, you seemed, like, a little bit off." And he's like, "Yeah, I didn't get the lift in at 4:00 in the morning."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And it's like [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Did he show-
- CWChris Williamson
... just fucking cry it.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, I have to say, you know, there are a number of people on the internet that I don't know, and I don't know if how they present is actually who they are. Like, but how Jocko shows up online is exactly who he is. He-
- CWChris Williamson
No, that's not true. That's... We spent, what, four days, four days with him in D- three days with him December, and on the way back, the final plane ride that we had home, there was a little bit of, a little bit more looseness. It was like-
- SPSpeaker
Well, yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... a five or 10% more.
- SPSpeaker
I mean, he, he can relax, but he's just an aggro dude.
- CWChris Williamson
True.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. He's got a lot of energy.
- CWChris Williamson
That's true.
- SPSpeaker
Anyway, so my question is, th- this whole thing about obsession with the '90s, like these posts of like-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... "Oh, this is what it was like then, and no one's got phones." And I have to say, even though, you know, I was born in '75 and loved the '90s, grateful that I was a teen in the '90s, I have to say the whole thing irritates me a lot.
- CWChris Williamson
The nostalgia aspect?
- SPSpeaker
Because I never want to be a part of that generation of people that's talking about how great it was when we were four.
- CWChris Williamson
The good old days. Yeah, yeah.
- 1:31:10 – 1:38:38
The Unexpected Benefits of Fap Naps
- MMMatt McCusker
goes on
- SPSpeaker
... if I stay in hotels for a weekend and don't look at porn, I, I feel like I'm a saint. I leave, I'm like-
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
They should literally just, like, canonize me.
- MMMatt McCusker
You, you're the one-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
You know, you pay for it? Like, there, there's like a-
- SPSpeaker
No, I'm just, just on your phone, I'm saying.
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah. Oh.
- SPSpeaker
'Cause it's like you have, you're just isolated in this bunker. You get off stage, you're like, "I'm wired."
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
You're like, "I need to go to bed. I know exactly how I can fall asleep right now."
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And you go like, "No, I'm not gonna..." I'll do it, like, 4% of the time and I'm just like, man, they sh- they're gonna canonize me after. [laughs]
- MMMatt McCusker
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
I'm gonna be a saint. It's impossible.
- MMMatt McCusker
Is that a-
- CWChris Williamson
Sounds like you're open about this with your wife, otherwise she'd just-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, she, she-
- CWChris Williamson
... know about it now.
- SPSpeaker
She, I've talked to her about it.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And, uh, now I'm off it. I'm off, I'm off the porn. But I always, I ask for her help.
- CWChris Williamson
How was that?
- SPSpeaker
I need your support.
- CWChris Williamson
How was the transition off the porn?
- SPSpeaker
Dude, it's way better. 'Cause, you know, now I'm for- I swear to God, once, once you're 40, it's like, 20s you c- you can have, like, infinite boners. You can be watching porn, who knows. Now, like, I need to be ready.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
If I'm fapped out-
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah
- 1:38:38 – 1:45:32
The Best Method to Optimise Your Sleep
- SPSpeaker
right?
- MMMatt McCusker
True.
- SPSpeaker
You know, we talked about the '80s, right? In the '70s and '80s, if you look back... I just, I just completed this frigging book, final s- finally.
- MMMatt McCusker
Congratulations, man.
- SPSpeaker
Thank you. It's like 700 pages.
- MMMatt McCusker
Jesus.
- SPSpeaker
I apologize in advance. But it's like a encyclopedia to be able to look up, like if you want more focus, what stimulants-
- MMMatt McCusker
That's cool
- SPSpeaker
... c- could you consider? What are you willing to take? The-
- MMMatt McCusker
So you took, fully took the fucking rails off with this. It was like not just stuff that's white market available, but-
- SPSpeaker
I was like, "Have lawyers read it for whatever concerns you have." I'm like, "Put the disclaimers you need." But like, I didn't cover peptides and hormones because that's stuff I'm still exploring, but everything I know to be true, I put in there. I just like, I left it all on the mat.
- MMMatt McCusker
That's pretty cool.
- SPSpeaker
That's cool.
- MMMatt McCusker
That's pretty sick.
- SPSpeaker
I just put it all in there. And even the introduction, like I get brutally honest, and I... No, I don- not bad names. Like there's some people that I wanted to credit and things like that, that I've been kind of quiet about, and I just, it's all there.
- MMMatt McCusker
Wait, can I ask you?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
'Cause we're talking about like, as guys that like we go on the road, we perform-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- MMMatt McCusker
... and we're like, "Shit," you know, getting to sleep is a thing.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MMMatt McCusker
What's the most like non-prescription d- drug, like best way? Is there something to consume? A, a s- maybe melatonin?
- SPSpeaker
To consume or do?
- MMMatt McCusker
To do or maybe both.
- SPSpeaker
I mean, look, i- if you... Behaviors first, like just to say, that I'm not saying this to like protect myself.
- MMMatt McCusker
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Like I've been around long enough, attacked enough for every little thing that like, you know, I don't tap dance anymore. I would say, okay, you get back to your room. It would be give yourself a hot shower.
- MMMatt McCusker
Dude, that works.
- SPSpeaker
You know?
- MMMatt McCusker
Hot bath.
- 1:45:32 – 1:57:12
Are Kids Becoming Smarter?
- TSTom Segura
Ah.
- SPSpeaker
So by the way, your kids probably are gonna start having hormones, in which case you're effed 'cause your kids are already like-
- CWChris Williamson
They're fucking-
- SPSpeaker
... in your face
- CWChris Williamson
... wild.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Dude.
- SPSpeaker
They're wild.
- TSTom Segura
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
How so?
- TSTom Segura
I mean, they're just, they're, they're amazing kids that like, but they have just, you know... My oldest is, like, very competitive.
- CWChris Williamson
How old?
- TSTom Segura
He's 10.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- TSTom Segura
But I mean, he's, he's-
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs] He's like, "I'm 10. I'm taking over the world."
- TSTom Segura
Bro. No, for real.
- CWChris Williamson
Third grade.
- TSTom Segura
He's, uh, he's a fourth now. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Fourth grader.
- TSTom Segura
He's, um, you know, he does cross country, does jujitsu. He was in the state finals for-
- CWChris Williamson
Love it
- TSTom Segura
... for cross country. But he, you see this thing, like, w- with, um, w- when you re- you realize with kids, you're like, "Oh, this is just, like, who you are." Do you know what I mean? Like-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah
- TSTom Segura
... you, so, like, this kid, he, like, he always is like, wants to compete at everything, at everything. It doesn't matter if it's like w- we're reading something, "I'm gonna read this faster than you." Like, the, it's-
- CWChris Williamson
It's the Michael Jordan thing
- TSTom Segura
... uh, he just wants to compete.
- CWChris Williamson
It's the Michael Jordan thing.
- TSTom Segura
He's also super emotionally-
- CWChris Williamson
You know what happened with his dad?
- 1:57:12 – 1:59:58
Is Hollywood Exploiting OnlyFans Creators?
- CWChris Williamson
here. I gotta sh- I gotta show you this. I le- I learned this thing about this 21-year-old college student in Austin who has made $43,000 running an AI OnlyFans account.
- TSTom Segura
Dude, I, I just heard that... I had this meeting where they were talking about how... So-
- SPSpeaker
Oh, he's doing like... Oh, no.
- TSTom Segura
Wow. [upbeat music]
- SPSpeaker
Wait, so that's the dude, and that's the-
- CWChris Williamson
That's the guy
- SPSpeaker
... and she's the AI version that-
- CWChris Williamson
Yep
- SPSpeaker
... you're selling?
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- SPSpeaker
Um-
- CWChris Williamson
So-
- SPSpeaker
Okay. Well-
- TSTom Segura
So what is this?
- CWChris Williamson
This, it's a 22-year-old. This is, like, her avatar, right? So he's using Claude Code and Flux and ElevenLabs, and basically she can chat 24 hours a day with all of her subscribers, and her top fans paid nearly $2,000 in messages. Average revenue per fan, $34. And, uh, she doesn't sleep. There's nothing to film. No one's typing. Claude Code writes every message. Flux generates every photo, and ElevenLabs generates her voice.
- TSTom Segura
What's the added context? Is it, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
OnlyFans requires verification that includes individual's ID, addresses, and numerous forms. There is no camera, no girls, and no OnlyFans except for a Lop farming Twitter revenue with a made-up story. Well, it's a good story.
- TSTom Segura
It's a good... Well, there, there's, there's something that is happening with, with... 'Cause, you know, with AI is, um, what, what, what Hollywood is embracing right now is, like, sets, right? Like, so in other words, they'll, they're, they'll bring in the actors for real right now.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- TSTom Segura
And they'll say, like, "Okay, you guys are, are acting. We'll put a table in the room, but this is gonna be in, you know, whatever. It's outdoors, like the table is in Siberia." So the, the set is AI, right?
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- TSTom Segura
But what some apparently OnlyFans performers have been approached is for a payout where they already have a following, like the OnlyFans person has a following.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- TSTom Segura
A company goes, "We'll pay you X amount of dollars to have your a- your OnlyFans account for, like, six months." And then the AI... What they're doing is putting the, the OnlyFans person into an AI situation, having them do wilder things than they actually do, generating a whole crazy amount of revenue, and now that OnlyFans performer is like, "Yeah, but I didn't do this stuff," you know? So they're like-
- CWChris Williamson
And then you're obliged when you get your account back.
- TSTom Segura
Back, yes.
- CWChris Williamson
You're like, "Hey, but do you remember what you were doing with your feet-
- TSTom Segura
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... for the last six months?"
- TSTom Segura
Yeah. You were drinking piss-
- 1:59:58 – 2:05:25
Has Chris’ Voice Been Stolen?
- CWChris Williamson
of him wearing her pants.
- SPSpeaker
Do you think we're close to the point where, like, you can go on vacation and then just have AI, you know, this, this pipeline generate a podcast, and no one will know?
- CWChris Williamson
Ooh. [sighs] So, like, NotebookLM kind of does this already.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
I've had a couple of conversations with different platforms that are thinking about doing it too. That makes me a bit uncomfortable, but, uh, the fucking thing that I'm going through at the moment, which is wild, is ElevenLabs, their go-to British voice. So ElevenLabs is, like, the big AI-
- SPSpeaker
Hmm
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, text-to-speech-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, company. Matthew McConaughey is a f- investor in it. It's made tons of money. It's absolutely fucking ripped. Their go-to AI British voice is me.
- SPSpeaker
That makes sense.
- CWChris Williamson
1,000% been trained on me.
- SPSpeaker
You got red-
- CWChris Williamson
It's awesome until people use it as voiceovers for products that I don't endorse.
- SPSpeaker
Oh.
- TSTom Segura
Ah.
- SPSpeaker
That's when you sue, my friend.
- CWChris Williamson
Dude, we emailed them. We emailed ElevenLabs-
- SPSpeaker
That's not suing
- CWChris Williamson
... a year ago and said, "Hey, like, this is fucking Chris."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
"Like, you've used Chris's voice." And they said, "Oh, we've done a, a, a Rochman-Heisman test, and it's come back at 0.3 similarity, and it needs to be above 0.65 in order to..." I'm like, "Dude, it doesn't matter."
- SPSpeaker
So this was ElevenLabs that-
- CWChris Williamson
Sorry, can you, can you get-
- SPSpeaker
ElevenLabs poached you, or these other people poached you?
- CWChris Williamson
No, ElevenLabs used their Archer... They must have trained this voice on me.
- TSTom Segura
On you, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Like, pull up that, uh, essay, the, the video essay, the M1 for fucking-
- SPSpeaker
I got someone I'm gonna connect you to. I got a friend who's, like, perhaps the world's best scientist on, uh, the neuroscience of, of speech and language, and, um-
- CWChris Williamson
Is he gonna be able to say, "Yeah, that's fucking Chris's voice. Give him some money"?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, because it, it-
Episode duration: 2:40:55
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