Modern WisdomMotivation, Discipline & Getting Through Hard Times - Jesse James West (4K)
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,142 words- 0:00 – 9:07
Stay Relentless
- CWChris Williamson
Where does stay relentless come from?
- JWJesse James West
Uh, the relentless part, that comes from my father 100%, where he definitely ingrained in my head being relentless. I feel like without saying s- stay relentless to me, just sort of by his actions throughout life. Um, and I believe that as I have gotten older, as I've played sports my, my entire life and, obviously not now, but from 11 years old all the way until 18 years old playing sports, I discovered the whole, like, non-stop, continuously grinding, and the more work you put in, the more you get out. And I feel like that sort of defined who I am, and I feel that that's something that I've always aspired to be is to be the hardest worker in the room. And to do that, you need to be relentless. I mean, like, you look at the dictionary definition, I'm sort of explaining it. And it really stuck with me, and I was like, "I feel like this is, this is something that I embody, and also can sort of motivate others to become hopefully."
- CWChris Williamson
What's your dad got to do with that?
- JWJesse James West
My dad? So my dad, he's a blue-collar guy. He is... His name's John. So John is a blue-collar man. He has worked many jobs. He's cut wood in the winter and made me load it next to him and stuff. So he has always had a lot on his plate, and just never really complained or anything, and just always did it, did it, did it, get it done, get it, get it done, and never had an excuse either. And I was like, sort of growing up around him was very much he believed that that's how I should be as well. So one, by showing me, and two, by always, like, telling me, like-
- CWChris Williamson
Expectations.
- JWJesse James West
... if, if there's something that needs to get done, you don't wait, you do it now. If you are trying to be great at something, you go practice, you get better, and you will be great. Like, it was very, like, tough love and stuff. But he always was... He had a million, he had five rental properties, uh, all at once that he was a landlord to. He fixed everything in the house, rebuilt the entire house, on top of a normal nine to five that he wakes up at, like, 4:00 in the morning, driving an hour into the city, doing work. So it was like, witnessing that firsthand, it was almost like I grew up with no excuse to be made. So I feel like that really ingrained in my head from a young age just being relentless, and, like, that's just who I am. And it's like, I can't not be that way.
- CWChris Williamson
It took a while for me... Uh, my sport growing up was cricket, which is, uh, much more gentlemanly. Uh-
- JWJesse James West
You played cricket?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. That was my game-
- JWJesse James West
Love it.
- CWChris Williamson
... for a decade. Uh, but it's also not only gentlemanly, but quite gentle as well. Uh, it's very much an art form. It's almost exclusively about skill. Uh, SNC for it is primarily just for injury prevention. Uh, so the line of the hard work, what you put in is what you get out, that line wasn't really made clear to me until I got into the world of business-
- JWJesse James West
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... and university. Uh, even at school, I, I don't know, I just didn't... I kind of wish that I did, but I didn't draw the line between hard work equals good performance. I'm aware that that's a very basic realization. It didn't come to me until I was much older. But what does being an 11 to 18, 19-year-old... Lacrosse?
- JWJesse James West
I played lacrosse, yep.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Uh, what does that philosophy, when you're still a child, feel like?
- JWJesse James West
You know, it was, it was very, it was very difficult to, like, comprehend as a kid. Looking back, it all makes sense. And I'm like, I have no regrets on my relationship with my dad and my relationship with coaches and sports. But playing lacrosse, I was fortunately very good at it right away. And I feel like whenever I was good at something, definitely my family was like, "We gotta, we gotta push him the most we possibly can." And specifically, my mom pushed me a lot, but, like, my dad definitely pushed me a lot. It was like, you see those dads on, like, uh, documentary shows about, like, a football player or something?
- CWChris Williamson
Classic sports dads.
- JWJesse James West
A classic sports dad that's just like, "My son's gonna be the best. He's gonna be the greatest. He's gonna work harder than everybody." And it was very much that, which, but I did enjoy, I loved lacrosse, so I didn't see it as a problem.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JWJesse James West
So it was, it was sort of like he's inducing that, that sort of relentless vibe to my life and, like, practice, and then my love for the sport also coming together. It worked very well from a young age. So, like, I saw no problem with it, my mom saw no problem with it.
- CWChris Williamson
The drive and the passion are working together.
- JWJesse James West
Yeah. Like, just, it, it met well and the synergy was there of, of his ideation and, and my love for the sport. And then as time went on and I got older, you know, I, I discovered the gym. I really fell in love with bodybuilding. I saw, I watched people like Christian Guzman on, on YouTube, an OG YouTuber in the fitness world. And I was like, "You know, I love lacrosse. I wanna play, I wanna play pro right now. Or in, in the future, I wanna play pro and have the aspirations to be the best in the country." But part of me, like, my, my, my inner soul isn't being fulfilled. And as you get older, I feel like you discover that more and more. And as I approach 15, 16, 17, I realized, like, maybe lacrosse isn't gonna be my end goal. Maybe there's something more for me, like fitness or doing YouTube. Like, I really didn't have that desire from a young age. Well, let me, let me add this. I made YouTube videos since I was 12. You look up Spartan Strings online right now, and I am on the internet, I'm like, "Hi, I'm Jesse James." I'm like little-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JWJesse James West
... little boy on the internet. But I had, I had aspirations outside of lacrosse that just kept getting bigger and bigger. And the problem with that, my dad, his aspiration was to push me in lacrosse and push me to my absolute limits, waking up early for workouts, chugging mass gainer shakes, "You gotta gain weight, you gotta get bigger, you gotta be stronger than everybody else." Out there in the rain, the snow, the hail, throwing the ball to me. And, uh, he-
- CWChris Williamson
Where was home for you?
- JWJesse James West
Home was New Jersey.
- CWChris Williamson
Right, okay.
- JWJesse James West
It was around the, one of the boondocks in the fricking woods. He's tossing the ball, it's pouring, it's snowing, doesn't matter what the weather is. And we're getting the reps in because, like, I do have this love, so I don't see it as too much of a problem, but then there's just a little bit too much force from him to do it, where it almost kind of pushed that love away from the sport. And I was like, "I just wanna, I just wanna body build, I wanna lift, I wanna do these things."And, you know, it, it developed into what it is today. So I'm, like, super grateful of every aspect of where my life went. But it kind of... It, it... And we had our struggles and stuff of our relationship because of the, the love of the sport dying and his push becoming more.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JWJesse James West
So it was like a, a pendulum.
- 9:07 – 23:01
Making Bold Decisions to Pursue Your Passion
- CWChris Williamson
negotiating? I think a lot of people, even those that aren't still 15-
- JWJesse James West
Mm-hmm. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... can, uh, resonate with this sort of having multiple de- desires at once. So I have one thing which I may be very good at and the world gives me recognition for, or perhaps I have a job title, or maybe that provides for me or my family in one way or another, and then I've got this other thing that's kind of my secret passion I almost feel a b- a little bit ashamed about, weirdly, because it's not the main thing, and I've committed so much time to it. So I've got sunk cost fallacy-
- JWJesse James West
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... into the old thing. Uh, what have you learned about balancing those two and the sort of split-brain existence-
- JWJesse James West
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... that you have there?
- JWJesse James West
I, I discovered a lot once I actually got to college. You know, through those years from 15 to 18, it was like growing up quick, and then by the time I was 18, it was very much in your face, "This is reality now." And now I... Instead of this idea of, "I want to go do this thing, but I'm, but I'm contracted by a lacrosse team to go perform," that didn't exist beforehand, but now it's in place. I am at practice. I am at... I'm in front of the coach. He's telling me that I need to do these things. I'm in front of a tutor because I'm failing out of a class that I can't handle. And with all that on my plate, which many people can relate to, they're... Everyone's busy. Everyone's, everyone's scheduled hard. Everyone's trying their best, but maybe not su- uh, succeeding yet, you know? They want to be there. And then you have this love for something else, like bodybuilding, like content, and I'm in this situation, and I'm, I'm young, and I'm figuring out that it is only on me to make these decisions.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JWJesse James West
And as much as my... I've listened... I, I'm very good at listening to what I... I'm very good at being told what to do and listening and doing it great. And that has gotten me places but also hurt my own personal, like, soul at the same time, because if I don't have that desire to go do it, I could still do it, and I'll do it great, and I'll do a fantastic job.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Yeah, I had this, uh, (laughs) uh, this insight around... Did you ever hear me talk about the region beta paradox?
- JWJesse James West
I have not.
- CWChris Williamson
So it's where you feel sort of comfortably numb, and you're stuck in this weird, um, sort of interquartile range where things aren't so bad that they're terrible, but they're not sufficiently good that you're actually living, uh, an amazing life. And I had this... (laughs) So this, this thing went kind of viral after I told S- Rogan about it. And I came up with this idea called the reverse region beta paradox, being in an aggressively terrible working cadence or environment but having such a tolerance for discomfort that you can endure it for a lifetime. Lower resilience, less stubborn people would snap and have to find a way to change, but not you. You're the David Goggins of working hard. Who's gonna carry the workload? You are, forever.
- JWJesse James West
(laughs) Dude, I... You're, like, speaking my language right now. For so long, I, my... You know, my dad and, and coaches and stuff... And I lo- I love my dad. I don't want people to think otherwise. We have a great relationship now, but there was definitely rock- rocky times, uh, with, with him and, and my... and, and being on the lacrosse team, where-I was so good at just freaking being uncomfortable. I was like, "This is my life. I've accepted this, like..."
- CWChris Williamson
Even if I'm not so happy, even if I don't wanna do it.
- JWJesse James West
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- JWJesse James West
I honestly just like ... And I ... This might shock a lot of people. I genuinely thought I was just a depressed person. Like, for years I was like, "I'm just depressed." Like, "I don't think I'm ever gonna escape this and that's just ... I- I have anxiety and depression. That's me." But then when I was about 18, I realized that I am the only one ... Like, like, let's say it's David Goggins, I'm the only one that can carry the damn boat. Okay? And that boat is going to crush me if I don't decide to do something with it.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JWJesse James West
So I ... I remember, I never ... I'll never forget, I remember calling my mom and I was like, "Mom," and she's very, like, opposite of my dad, where my dad's, like, tough love. She's very, like, soft, nurturing love. And I was like, "I, I can't handle this. I'm making the decision. I am quitting. I know this is gonna, this is gonna shock the entire family. It's gonna shock the coaches. I'm gonna have to do a bunch of stuff, uh, paperwork, find a new college." We just got here, like, a month and a half ago, at Lehigh, and I'm like-
- CWChris Williamson
How long did you last?
- JWJesse James West
I did one full semester, but it was like, we got in on, like, mid-August and by October, I was like, "This is the worst feeling I've ever felt in my life. I have to be done or this is gonna end badly in, like, a year." And I consciously picked up that fucking boat and was like, "I'm out." And it was a very empowering and, like, sp- it was a very strong spiritual awakening of inner peace-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JWJesse James West
... of making this decision for yourself. So for anyone that's, like, listening and, and trying to understand in their scenario, you're the only one that can pull yourself out and, like, save yourself. Like, truly. There might be people that can help you, you can lean on, you can ... you know, you can count on them always, you know, ta-talking you off the ledge or whatever it might be, helping you. But at the end of the day, there is one person that can truly make a decision and do things for you, and it's yourself, and you have no choice but to make those decisions. As uncomfortable as they are and scary they, as they are, you have ... You, like, you have to do these things and make those decisions that are tough.
- CWChris Williamson
Let's just linger on that for a second.
- JWJesse James West
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
So it's got me thinking about the fact that, um, I'm a big proponent of encouraging people to have social support. I think in a world that's fragmented and atomized and everyone's a droid, bleep, bleeping their way through TikTok, spending a lot of time and having a strong social circle is, is a really good thing. And you lean on friends, they help you with lots of stuff, but there's this ... a particular category of decision, or maybe a number-
- JWJesse James West
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... of categories of decisions that your friends simply can't help you with.
- JWJesse James West
Mm-hmm.
- 23:01 – 30:09
Overcoming the Judgment of Others
- CWChris Williamson
high school, I, I remember you saying that when you started doing something a little bit different, your high school became very judge-y.
- JWJesse James West
Oh, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And they weren't exactly super supportive. But as a young person, how do you overcome the judgment of other if you don't have the support of people around you?
- JWJesse James West
Yeah. So I have, like, so many scenarios in my head of, like, sort of screwed up things that people would do or say or what they were, and I'll, I'll explain them. So when I was, let's just say 15 to 17, I don't exactly remember what, e- exactly what age, but I started my fitness page, which is now my Instagram, and it was called Jesse James Fitness. You know, it has a little ring to it, you know? It's like, it's clearly not my just name. It's like, oh, this brand that I'm trying to do, you know, sell T-shirts, workout programs, whatever it might be. And obviously, I said I had aspirations of being a YouTuber and all that stuff. And as you're in high school, at least in my high school... Back then also, additionally, it was not as normal to try to start a YouTube. There was no TikTok, like, Instagram and stuff. And they see this and they see me trying to do it. I have a good physique at this point. Like, there's no... It's not even like I have no f- no physique, no, no nothing.
- CWChris Williamson
A total wannabe fitness
- JWJesse James West
Yeah. It's not even like I'm really just try- trying to be a wannabe. I, I genuinely could already be in the, in the industry, in my opinion. I, I have good genetics, thank you mom and dad, um, and at this point...Uh, I have, like, a few thousand, maybe, followers. And honestly, a lot of them are probably just from lacrosse. And I go to the pep rally of, like, freshmen, sophomore, junior, seniors. Everybody's at their own bleacher. They're just doing tug of war, they're doing challenges. Battle of the Classes, it was called. Um, and I'm, I'm a freshman at this time, I'm remembering now, or a sophomore. I, whatever. And the seniors all chant, "Jesse James Fitness. Ch, ch, ch, ch, ch. Jesse James Fitness." And I'm standing there and I'm like, "Shit, okay. I could do two things here. I can look down and just, like, admit defeat and, like, let them win," and I'm not like that at all. And, or, you know, I can keep my chin up, I can look at them, I can double bicep flex-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JWJesse James West
... and say, "What do you want? What do you want?" So, we were going out for tug of war, and that's when they were doing it. And I just look at them and I'm like ... And I flex. In my head, in my soul, I'm like, I, I'm panicking, I'm uncomfortable, I'm embar- I'm so embarrassed. Like, there's the girls behind you that you wanna date, the friends that you, you know, you're making and all this stuff. And like, I'm trying to be cool and what, and whatnot. But I'm like, "I can't let them see that." Like, it's a, it's a poker face that I gotta keep on, 'cause at least, at least I can win that. And I feel like I kept doing that for so long. I really did, like, partially not give a fuck, but also, you'll always give a fuck. I still give a fuck. I get a hate comment now, if I get enough of them, I'm still gonna give a fuck. I'm never not gonna give a fuck. If you, if you don't care, that's just because you don't have a desire in this anymore. And I remember, I, I'd do the flex, we'd do the tug of war, whatever, and then in the hallways, they'd be like, "Jesse James Fitness, what's up, man?" And I'd just be like, I'd be like, "What's up, bro? What's up?" Like, you know what? I'm on phase. I don't care. And I feel like people really started to pick up on that, and like, they were like, "Damn, this, this, this MFer is, like, not breaking." And these were, like, the, the junior or s- the grade above me or whatever, uh, the, they're the cool kids. I called them the entitled kids. They very much were. No hate against them now. Everyone, no big deal. It made me who I was. But another time was, um, a kid for Halloween, I ... And he might even be watching this. I forgive you. It's okay. Uh, he dressed up as me, as-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JWJesse James West
(laughs) Hey. No, I'm kidding. He dressed up as me. And I, I remember seeing this, and I was like, "This is, this is a, this is a new level I have to accept. Like, this is fucked." And honestly, like, I'll get into it more. So, he, he dresses up as me. He has a fucking muscle suit on at a party. We're probably 16, 17. He was one of the kids that would, like, go drink with his friends. I'd, I drank a little when I was in high school, whatever. I wasn't really a partier. I didn't have time. I was playing lacrosse every day. And I was like, I'm sitting at home, I'm seeing it on my, on my Instagram, and I'm like, "Wow. This fucker is dressing up as me right now." It says Jesse James Fitness. And like, those things just, like, stick with you as like, a, a driving motivation of like, why I wanna make it even more. It's almost like a tr- a trauma, a trauma reaction. Like, I was traumatized. My reaction is, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna win. You're not gonna, you're not gonna control me. I'm going to defeat you and everything in front of me. You're just a wall that I have to break through, you know? And if I can't handle this, I don't deserve what I want." Like if you ... I- it ... That, that was my mindset. And I saw that, I remember. And, and you know what's crazy, is that now, year, probably a few months ago, he messaged me. I'm not gonna ... I would never name him, but he messages me about my Michael Chandler collab, and he's like, "Dude, saw the Chandler collab. So sick. Great job." And I was like, "Huh. Weren't y-" And I was like, "Honestly, thank you."
- CWChris Williamson
It's one of those weird things about having a chip on your shoulder about stuff that happened in your past, that maybe some kids knew, or in reflection realized how much it might have impacted you.
- JWJesse James West
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, but a lot of the time, it's just kids being kids.
- JWJesse James West
I know.
- CWChris Williamson
And that's very strange, right? Because the impact of something is so much greater than the, uh, like, estimate of it. It hurts way more than what was thrown.
- JWJesse James West
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
If that makes sense. And, um, that's a really strange thing, I think, for people. A circle for them to squat.
- JWJesse James West
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
How, how can it be the case that this person doesn't deserve for me to still bear a grudge against them?
- JWJesse James West
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
They ... That, that hurt. And I remem- you still remember it now.
- JWJesse James West
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Nearly 10 years later. You still remem-
- JWJesse James West
For e- it's crazy.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JWJesse James West
It, it definitely stung for a while, but it's also like, one of the things that for some reason, and I'm gonna assume that it's from my mom, the way she raised me and always, like, hyped me up in a way. Where she, she believed in me before I believed in me. And she believed in me so much that I ended up believing in myself in everything. I am ... I, I weirdly believe in myself for things I shouldn't believe in myself for. I'm like, "I could be, I could be a musician if I wanted." Let's be real, Jesse. You're a little tone-deaf. But like, you know what I mean? Like, I had that mindset that's ingrained in me and, from a young age. So, seeing those things happen, and then she would kinda be the ... She'd be like the backbone. She'd be like, "You can't let this affect you." Like, h- in, in reality, this is not doing anything. It's really not doing anything. The only thing it could do is hurt you, and then you're just stopping yourself from doing anything, 'cause it, it's in your head. Like, no one else is seeing that and going, "You know what? I'm, I'm not gonna support Jesse, 'cause that kid wore a muscle suit, like." Like, that shit doesn't exist.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JWJesse James West
It's all how we perceive it. So having that, like, backbone and belief in my body that my mom instilled in me from a young age, I feel like is one of the reasons that I am in the position I am, where I have so much unconditional belief in myself that I tell people that if you believe in yourself, like, and you actually believe. Not just like, "Oh, I, I believe in myself 'cause I was told by Chris and Jesse on a podcast to." Like, if you genuinely believe in yourself, you are 75% already there towards your goals. Like, you will, you will accomplish them. If you believe in yourself, put in the work, it's done.
- CWChris Williamson
What
- 30:09 – 41:34
How Jesse Finally Quit Lacrosse
- CWChris Williamson
has been the, uh ... What's been the process of closing the loop with your dad?
- JWJesse James West
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Having been pushed so hard, presumably a lot of disappointment when the thing that he's worked on with you-
- JWJesse James West
Yup.
- CWChris Williamson
... for nearly a decade-
- JWJesse James West
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... goes, like-... pull the pin and just toss it out of the window?
- JWJesse James West
Oh, that was, uh, that was a very hard time, honestly for my whole family. Because like, me, it's me and my sister, my mom, my dad, and we're all very close, we all communicate a ton, great relationships. And for years it was all great. But then with my dad being so, and he, 'cause he thought this was the best for me. He thought, "Uh, this is going to make Jesse successful. He's going to have security when he's older." Like this, it was out of love. It was just this love that was, I guess you could say hurtful in a way, and like a little toxic. And so I go through, I'll give you the kind of like the rundown of quitting, and like ripping, and then pulling the pin on the, on the grenade and chucking it. I call my mom. I call my sister, I believe first. I've always kind of gone to her as like, "All right, what do I do?" Like she's just kind of like another parent to me. And she's like, "You're going to have to like, you got, just call mom, tell her what's going on. She'll, she'll handle Dad." That was kind of always how it went, like Mom's gonna handle Dad. And I tell my mom, and she's like, "I'll talk to your father." And basically my mom tells me the conversation went like this. They came to visit me at Lehigh, uh, during an alumni game. We were playing a game, and after the game we went to Target. Me and my mom are going in just getting like college supply stuff, 'cause when you go early in, in sports, you, you don't go when everyone else starts. And I go in there, and this has been, I've been there for about three weeks, and I'm really fucking struggling, like very, very depressed. And I break down crying to her, just like I can't keep it in. Like, and I'm just walking Target, like, about to like shot, uh, the, to check out aisles to my right. And I start tearing up, and I'm, and I'm like, "Oh my God." And I'm, I look at her and I'm like, I'm like, "Something's so fucking wrong." Like I, I, I feel like I can't feel anything. I have no interest in like women right now. And not that I was pursuing anything else, but just like my emotion of who Jesse was, like I always wanted to go out and like talk to the girls. Didn't care at all. None of that. Social media, uh, still doing it, but I was just like, "Fuck, man." Like my desire of everything is gone. The only thing I had that kept me sort of sane was lifting and music, and those were like two things that I like combined together, and it was my only safe space. And I remember leaving that, uh, Target. My mom then dropped... My mom and dad are in the car. My dad doesn't know I just cried. I'm like, "Fucking suck it up." Like, "You're fine." Like, "Get in the car." Like I'm, I'm the good boy that's fucking completing this mission of ours. And when she drops me off, she told, something in the conversation, she looked at my dad and was like, "You're not saying a word. He's leaving. You have no say." So shout out Karen to this, fucking legend. And she's like, "Y- you have to accept this, and that's how it is, period. End of conversation." And I feel like he kind of knew for a while. Like I know we're skipping parts in the story of like my, my darkness and stuff. But like he kinda caught the idea a little bit, like, "'Cause my son's struggling," but I feel like he kind of didn't wanna admit it. And, but what that did was it broke down this massive barrier of how my dad thought I should go about life, and also broke down a massive barrier for myself that maybe I don't have to listen to everyone telling me to do things, and maybe I should just listen to myself and actually like pursue things that I want to. And I haven't, I haven't been able to in six years of my life. I've been playing lacrosse every day, every weekend, missing homecoming, uh, late to prom, leaving prom weekend because I gotta go play in an all-star game. Like the shit never ended, and like it made me like re- relentless, and it definitely was like dedication and relentless right there, but that shit stuck with me for so long of like, I didn't get anything for a while of like experience that normal people have. And I feel like it just hit a big breaking point when I got to college. And once that happened, it was, uh, it was then now ti- Like my mom tells my dad, "Jesse's out. Accept it or, you know, you're not gonna have a relationship with your son," basically. I then, you know, I come home for the weekend. Um, I talk to my dad and stuff, and he's like, he's very understanding. He's like... Honestly, I, I would, I, I, I don't want to speak for him, but I think it's one of his biggest regrets, is pushing me that, that far to my limits, where as a father, you never wanna push your son into depression or anything. Not that he pushed me there, but like his actions added up.
- CWChris Williamson
It was a setup.
- JWJesse James West
Yeah. And I know like, we have a great relationship now. We did throughout years it was up and down, good, bad sometimes. Now it's a great relationship. But during that time, it definitely like changed his mindset of like just everything. And really, like John had to become a new man and accept things, and I had to become a new man and learn that I have to say what I want in life-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JWJesse James West
... do what I want, and like you said, hold yourself up.
- CWChris Williamson
Advocate for yourself.
- JWJesse James West
I have to, I have to advocate for myself-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JWJesse James West
... at all times because I s- I, this is the saying that I stuck with. "Do what you're meant to, not what you're supposed to." Everyone is always supposed to be doing something, but if you're not meant to be doing that, why the fuck are you doing it? Like seriously.
- CWChris Williamson
I wonder how many people have gone through their entire lives never doing anything that they weren't supposed to do.
- JWJesse James West
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
You know? That there's-
- JWJesse James West
It's sad.
- CWChris Williamson
... it's just been one big series of dominoes from when they were born-
- JWJesse James West
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... until now, at whatever age they are, where they never told their dad or the equivalent of it that they didn't wanna do lacrosse.
- JWJesse James West
Yeah. And, uh, it's like one of my main missions on social media. Yes, I wanna do big things, make cool videos, but like the, the true why of like the core of why I started, why I do all this, was because I went through that. And I feel like I went through such a dark phase of my life with such a bright awakening. I was like, "People need to know this shit." Like people need to just not, not be told it, but shown it. I would, I'd advocate for myself that on my channel, it's me living my best life, doing cool things that I've desires, that I've interested in. You know, I've, I'm interested in Vikings. I'm gonna go freaking Norway, jump off a cliff with Vikings and eat and drink mead and do these cool things, 'cause like that's something I've always wanted to do. I have a lot of fascination in stuff like that. And-I always wanted to leave a subconscious message with my videos, like, if you're not living life to the fullest, like, you are missing out on so much. And I hope that people can watch this and realize that you are worth that meant-to life, rather than that supposed-to life.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JWJesse James West
And I hope people can pursue their meant-to eventually.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. It's scary, man. That's, you know, why I think advocating for yourself, making your needs known, almost there's this sort of assumption a lot of people have, it's very much a British thing, uh, but maybe a working class thing too, that who am I to actually have needs-
- JWJesse James West
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... or desires or wants in that regard? That there's this sort of weird glory in sacrifice, in subjugating yourself. It's like, no, no, no, it's noble for me to hate what I do and still do it. It's noble for me to suffer this sort of weird sort of self-flagellation as you whip yourself through whatever it is that you're going through. And in some ways there is, but no one's going to give you some award at the end of your life-
- JWJesse James West
Mm-hmm.
- 41:34 – 52:46
Jesse’s Experience With Anxiety & SSRIs
- CWChris Williamson
What's your advice to people who don't have a supportive surrounding-
- JWJesse James West
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
... that maybe are in a... You heard of food deserts?
- JWJesse James West
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
It's, uh, uh, places around countries where it's very difficult to get hold of high quality food.
- JWJesse James West
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
I often think about role model deserts-
- JWJesse James West
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
... or sort of support deserts. Uh, places where someone is trying to do something a little bit different, maybe they're not following the prescribed route that typically people from where they're from are doing-
- JWJesse James West
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... and they go, "Uh," 'cause you did it twice. You first left the normal education, normal teenager life to do the lacrosse thing-
- JWJesse James West
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
... and then left the lacrosse life thing to do the next thing. So in both situations-
- JWJesse James West
Honestly, it's been, like, it's been, like, five things that I've kind of, like, said, "I'm out." Um, I went, I, I l- I left that normal teenage life, that's one. Left Lehigh, that's two. Went to Montclair State University, D3 school, very close to home, sort of like a more expensive community college that you can live at, and played lacrosse there, and played there, did very well, was like a, had the most goals in the team and stuff like that. So again, people are like, "Keep doing it, bro. Keep doing it. You're doing amazing. Oh my God."
- CWChris Williamson
Positive reinforcement.
- JWJesse James West
Y- and I'm like, I'm like, "Is this what I'm supposed to be doing, though?" So then that got to a point where...I was like, I, I went into, I went straight into my coach and was like, "Hey, I, I don't wanna do this anymore." That was, that was the third time. He luckily, like, I, I appreciate what he did. He was like, "I want you to shift your perspective. I don't want you to look at this..." I was waiting for the beep thing.
- CWChris Williamson
Go on.
- JWJesse James West
Uh, "I don't want you to look at this as, uh, you have to be here. Just go out, hang out with the guys, do your thing."
- CWChris Williamson
Stop putting pressure on yourself.
- JWJesse James West
"Stop putting pressure on yourself." And that lightened it up for a while, really did. And kinda like, as almost like an internal anxiety that we all put on ourselves of like, "I have to be here. I have to do this. Oh, I gotta wake up at 6:00 AM tomorrow," rather than just being like, "You know what? It's happening. Let's accept this rather than fight it." And that internal fight-
- CWChris Williamson
That's a really good point.
- JWJesse James West
... that internal fight is where anxiety is painful, because in your head you're basically living through it multiple times and you're forcing yourself to feel the anxiety that's happening in real life, but if you just take a second, this helps me a lot with anxiety, I take a step back. I go, "I have anxiety right now and I'm feeling it." And I allow myself to feel this anxiety, and my body almost, like, releases the tension and I kind of relax into it. And yes, there's still anxiety, but it's like, it's like when you're in the ice bath and you're, "Oh, fuck. Oh my God, I'm dying. This is, this is killing me." And then you're like, "You know what? Ah, ah," and you just let it-
- CWChris Williamson
There's some days that you-
- JWJesse James West
Yeah, it still hurts.
- CWChris Williamson
... there's some days that you get in that.
- JWJesse James West
But you have to just let it... You have to just let the, just accept it. Accept the pain.
- CWChris Williamson
Mark Twain says, "Worrying is like paying a debt that you don't owe."
- JWJesse James West
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And that's it. It's not just the discomfort of the thing that you're going to have to do, it's the 50 times that you think about that thing-
- JWJesse James West
(laughs)
- 52:46 – 59:14
Running Every Day for a Month
- CWChris Williamson
onto some of the stuff that you've done in fitness-
- JWJesse James West
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... we s- talked about this earlier on, hybrid training, running is super popular at the moment.
- JWJesse James West
Yup.
- CWChris Williamson
You ran every day for a month.
- JWJesse James West
Yup.
- CWChris Williamson
What did that do to you?
- JWJesse James West
It gave me a lot of respect for runners.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JWJesse James West
Um, especially hybrid runners. Honestly, all runners. Uh, any, any, any new challenge or workout's tough, but doing it every day, it was like new and fun, and you're sore in the beginning and it's really hard, but I feel like running is a different s- sort of reward where I see a very quick result, where I run three miles on day one, horrible time, I'm dying, I'm cramping, I feel terrible. I'm like, "Bro, I'm running a marathon in 30 days. How is this gonna happen?" By day seven, I'm like, "I can run three miles." Then when you go to six, you know, it's hard again, you gotta taper up. I did a very rapid prep. No one really does this. Nick Bare sorta coached me. He's like, "Hey, this is the best case scenario. You're gonna run this many miles each day. Good luck." No one should do this, but-
- CWChris Williamson
So you started from not being a runner-
- JWJesse James West
Yup.
- CWChris Williamson
... and within 30 days, did what?
- JWJesse James West
Full marathon.
- CWChris Williamson
Full marathon.
- JWJesse James West
Sub four, baby.
- CWChris Williamson
How did that feel?
- JWJesse James West
Uh, the marathon? Excruciating. Uh ... (laughs) it wasn't the most painful thing I've ever done. And I'll, I'll segue into what, what it is, 'cause you wanna hear that. Um, the marathon, the first 13 miles were pretty chill, and I was like, "Oh, we're halfway. Like, this is gonna be pretty easy." Like, not easy, but like, I'll be okay. And then I get to mi- mile 15 and I was like, "Bro, my legs, like, are just, like, not cooperating now." Mile 16, I entered, uh, the wall, which they call it. It's like a wall. The wall means ... the wall in running is where you hit this block, p- uh, period of time, many miles, one mile, could be 10, doesn't ... everyone's different, and it's the biggest hurdle that you have to get over. It's the same ... you're running at the same pace, there's no difference, nothing has changed, it's just your body has ... and your m- body and mind has created this wall that you have to literally get through. And for me, it was mile 16 to 24.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JWJesse James West
For many people, everyone's like, "Dude, when you hit mile 20, you're gonna hit a wall." It's, "You'll get through it."
- CWChris Williamson
I've heard, I've heard that it is in the 20s, yeah.
- JWJesse James West
"You'll get through it. 20, 20 you'll hit it. 20 you'll hit ..." Bro, 16.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JWJesse James West
And I, I kept, I kept, it kept getting drastically worse and worse, and I was like, I was like, "I have to be leaving the wall soon. I have to be leaving the wall soon." Mile 22, "Why am I still in the wall? What is happening? Am I, am I gonna die?"
- CWChris Williamson
The longest wall in history.
- JWJesse James West
So ... and it's probably because I had a very rapid training for it, um-And at this point, I'm like, my hip flexors feel like they're going to tear off the bone. And I'm very underprepared. 30 days is nowhere near enough. No one should ever do that. Uh, unless you're stupid and making a YouTube video. Uh, we get to mile 24, I meet an angel of a man. I think his name was Matt? I believe it was Matt. It was like, literally like a, like an angel that-
- CWChris Williamson
Aw.
- JWJesse James West
... someone just put right there. And I was like, "Hey! Hey, you!" And he's like, "Hey. Oh, you're that YouTube guy!" He's like, "I've seen you." And I was, I was like, "Uh, can I, can I run with you, please?" 'Cause we're running, we went through the woods also, so it's kind of like, a difficult, uh, marathon. They're all hard. And I catch up with him, and I look at him, I go, "Do not slow down. Don't slow down. I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep up with you." And then we start getting this pace. And I'm just like, I'm, uh, I wanna cry already. It's uh, it's happening. But I stick with him. And then, and then he starts slowing down. I, and then I pick him up, and I'm like, "Come on, bro. Come on." And then a third dude joins us, and we're all dying together, and it's like, uh, we've never met each other in our lives. We're all like, "You got this, bro! What's your name? Nice to meet you." And uh, uh, dying. And, uh, and we finally make it. And honestly, at like, mi- if I didn't meet Matt at mile 24-ish, I genuinely, I kept like, walking, running, walking, running the last few miles before I met him. And I was like, "Dude, if I have to walk this, like, I have failed so miserably. I'm so mad at myself because I know I can, I can handle the pain." And I kept reminding myself, "This is not the hardest thing you've done." The hardest thing I've done, eh, uh, by, by the way, when I finished the marathon, my fiance was at the end, euphoric feeling, gave her a hug, saw my mom, had my team there. Laid on the ground, couldn't get up, uh, ha- h- couldn't train hamstrings for like, six weeks.
- CWChris Williamson
I was gonna say, what were the next few days like?
- JWJesse James West
Oh my God, the pain was so bad. I w- I was limping for multiple days. Like, could barely lift my leg. And for about six weeks, my, th- the tendon behind your knee, there's like, those two like, stringy tendons? Uh, I could not do a hamstring curl for the life of me. I could do like, squats and stuff, but I could not curl anything, like not even like five pounds. Felt like I probably tore something. And then my hip, I could not raise my right leg. And then for a while, there was a lot of crunching going on. I was like, "This was a bad idea." And video did great, 3.3 million views, probably growing. Uh, the, my favorite part about that video was the, the storytelling and ending at the end was so like, pure.
- 59:14 – 1:03:27
The Hardest Thing Jesse Has Ever Done
- CWChris Williamson
at checkout.
- JWJesse James West
But, uh, let me tell you about the hardest thing that I've done. Oh, God. I have trauma from this one. You can thank a guy named Brian Johnson, AKA Liver King. Okay, this guy, psychopath. Love him, great guy to be around. Uh, extremely successful businessman. Very motivating. Uh, he does this thing called The Barbarian. You have 15 pound on, ankle weights on each leg, 15 pound, uh, or, 70 pound backpack, 150, 140 pound sled, and holding 70 pound kettle bells. And it's 112 degrees outside in Texas, and it's August, or July or something. And you have to go through the sand. So like, sand gives resistance. As it, as you pull-
- CWChris Williamson
It's slippery.
- JWJesse James West
... it's digging, it's digging itself into the ground, so it's torturous. So it's like th- Uh, if you add, do the math, it's like 315 pounds you're carrying. So like ... And you have to go a mile. I've done it once with him, the first time I met him, uh, and we did it on flat gravel. I did it in an hour and 20 something minutes. I beat him by an hour. I was like, "What the hell just happened, bro?" That was like, okay, that was one of the ha- one of the hardest things I've done. Not the hardest. Then I do the second challenge a year later. He invites me back, he's like, "I want you to do the Barbarian Crucible." I'm like, "This sounds terrible. But I'm in. I'm all for stupid things that I'm gonna have to put myself through." So I literally have like, scars from this. And we do this. About quarter mile in, I was like, already having a first heatstroke, and I was like, "What is ..." I was like, "Bro, this is next level," 'cause it's through sand, it's through dirt, it's through, uh ...
- CWChris Williamson
It's the same thing?
- JWJesse James West
Same exact thing, same mile, just the course is 10 times harder.
- CWChris Williamson
Right.
- JWJesse James West
And he, last time he did it, and it was a competition, so you kind of have that like, "Let me chase you" feeling. This time, he's just chilling. He's smoking a cigar, drinking his whiskey, calling the walkie-talkie guy next to me, talking shit. And I'm like, I, I told him, I said, "I will finish this." And this goes back to my like, almost stupid belief in myself to where I do things that hurt myself because I'm like, "I'm not gonna fail. I'm, I'm not gonna stop." So, I psychotically do this for like, we'll take three quarters of a mile, and I get to the sand. It's like, first half is just gravel and dirt and stuff. Hard, but not the worst. Sand at like, last-... 0.4 miles. And I, uh, I get to this point where I am now full-on having a heatstroke. I'm freezing. It's 112 degrees outside, it makes no sense. I've sweat all water out, now I'm covered in white because, like, my, uh, like, electrolytes are just on me. And I'm like, I'm like, "I'm dying." I look at their, their producers and stuff, I'm like, "Bro, I'm done."
- CWChris Williamson
Were you allowed water?
- JWJesse James West
I was allowed to drink water. They were pouring a ton of water on me but, like, nothing was working. And I look at the producer and I'm like, "I'm done. I'm, I'm going to un-" They said, "If you unclip, you're done." I'm about to unclip and they're like, "Don't do it." And I'm like, "I'm stupid and I'm good at being told what to do like, and still doing it." And I'm like, "Okay, you said don't do it, I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna keep going." I go, I go. Next heatstroke, on the ground, laying there for 30 minutes. (sighs) I'm thought- I'm like my soul has left my body, I know I don't have sweat left in my body. I'm covered, I lick my lips, it's salty, like I needed some of this stuff. (laughs) Great plug.
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- JWJesse James West
But I get to a point where I'm like, I'm like, "Dude, I, I have 0.15 left of a mile, like, I have to just finish this." Same thing in the marathon, like, if I don't, I'm just gonna be pissed. Once I feel better, I'ma be pissed.
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- JWJesse James West
And I, I somehow s- slug my way to the end, s- five steps, drop. Five steps, drop. Five steps, drop. I'm, like, dead in the face. I get there, I cross the finish line, I just collapse on the ground. And he's like, "Yeah! There you go, brother!" And he's like, "Yeah, yeah, boy!" He says that stuff. He's like, uh, he's like, "Lighten the fuck up." He has all these sayings that are just psychotic. And I'm laying there, "Aah, God."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JWJesse James West
And safe to say, it took me four hours, four hours to go a mile. And that was the most painful thing I've ever done in my life. So when I did the marathon, I just kept thinking about that, and I was like, "That was four hours of way more pain. This is four hours of a different pain." My legs have never had so much lactic acid in my body, but my upper body's perfectly fine, my mind can push through this.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JWJesse James West
But with Liver King, it's like your arms are tired, your legs are tired. Your soul, you can't even feel your soul because you're so dehydrated. (exhales)
- 1:03:27 – 1:12:57
Becoming Resilient to Physical Discomfort
- JWJesse James West
It was a crazy experience.
- CWChris Williamson
What have you learned about resilience to physical discomfort from the challenges and things that you've done?
- JWJesse James West
I've learned that you can push your body so much farther than you'd ever think. Something that I t- that I learned at Lehigh, uh, we'd had a Navy SEAL course come to us. And so I hated everything about Lehigh. School, uh, the guys were cool, the coaches were always nice to me. But, like, the program, didn't want to do it, all that stuff sucked. When they brought in Navy SEALs and made us stay up 50 hours, favorite thing of m- I was, I was depressed at the time, fucking loved it. Way better than whatever the hell we were doing before. So it was, like, this wei- Everyone else hated it, and I was like, "I don't know why, that was the best part of my month." And we do this cr- Oh, dude, I'm, like, remembering this shit, it's crazy. Okay, I'm like 18, we're i- I'm, like, I'm like 180 pounds right now. I was probably almost 200, just meat stick, bro. Fucking 4,500 calories a day. And they make us do perfect jumping jacks, perfect sit-ups, perfect push-ups. One person messes up, everyone is required to call that one person out, basically make them, make them feel like shit. And then everyone runs because of it. We do that for four hours straight. They say, "Go home, get one hour of sleep." We go home, we fucking lay down, we get right back up. We're in a pool at 3:00 AM. They say, "Put your sweatsuits on." Full crew neck, full sweatpants. These sweatpants are, like, double XL that we're wearing. And they're like, "Jump in the pool." And I'm like, "What the fuck?" And they, and, and they're like, "If you can't swim, go to the shallow end." Like, dead-ass they said this to us. And I was like, "Someone's gonna die." We go in, and they're like, "Okay, we're gonna do the push-ups, the sit-ups, the everything on the outside of the pool." We're soaking wet, we're doing 'em, we're calling out people for not doing it right. And you're w- you're held accountable. If you don't c- if you s- if they see you see someone and say, and you don't go, "Hey, Johnny over here didn't do his pushup right," now you're fucked, now you get called out. So it's everybody's calling out each other and just saying, like, "You suck. You're horrible." Uh, very traumatizing for some people. Th- you should see the, the faces on these people were, "I'm gonna die." And then we go in the pool and we're like, "Okay, now we're going to do basically, like, a deep end simulation thing where you have to take off your sweatshirt, you have to s- switch with somebody and then put it on." It's a v- it's some Navy SEAL training, um, I don't know the name of it, but wild experience.
- CWChris Williamson
Suck.
- JWJesse James West
That you tread, you're treading. And you're in, like, picture, like, so much resistance on your legs, and you're, like, 40 pounds hea- 20 pounds heavier with this, like, weighted clothes on you. And you're trying to swim and everyone's like, "Ah." Everyone, and you're trying to, like, "Hey, you got this, you got this." You're talking each other up. And they're like, "All right, everyone, take off your sweatshirt." And you have to go on a, "Ready, ready, attack" call so, like, everyone's on the exact same page. And you take it off, and you're treading. You're treading with one arm, and you have to hold it up with one arm until everybody is ready. You know, and, and it takes two minutes at least to get these things off. It's, like, stuck to you, kids don't know what they're doing. Some kids literally are being held up by other people. I shouldn't say kids, we were more like adults at this time. And we're treading, we're treading. And then it's like, "Ready, ready, attack, switch with somebody." You switch. Now, "Ready, ready, attack, put it on." So think of, like, a wet rag, like, stuck together, and you're, like, trying to, like, find the opening, and you're treading still for, like, we're at, like, minute eight of treading. And then we put it on, and we're, like, all just dying. Some kids are l- near drowning. Like, genuinely there's two people holding their arms up, and they're s- like, their head is barely above the water. And if they don't complete it, restart. We did, like, four rounds of this thing. And they would, they'd look at the team captain and go, "How quick can you do it?" And they wanted to push the hell out of us. And the team captain says something like, "Two minutes." "Okay, do it again." They look at him again. "You did, you did it in 1:50, how quick can you do it?" "1:30." They're like, "All right, 1:30." "You did it in 1:25, how quick can you do it now?" "All right, 1:20." And we do it and we get all the way down to, like, 1:00, 1:15, 1:20, and we're all, we've been treading water for, like, 40 fricking minutes, 'cause in between maybe you get, like, a quick put the shoulder on something, but you're back. Crazy experience. And that is pre-YouTube challenge. So, like, doing that, uh, definitely showed me, like, you're capable of so much. Those SEALs that day were like, "Listen, when you think you're done, when you think you're done, not just like, 'Oh, I'm tired, I'm done.' When you think you're truly done, you have 40% left in the tank. And you need to tell yourself that every single time when you're on the field. When you think you're done, 40% left. Keep pushing." And I was like, "I'm-"Damn, I'm gonna live by that. And like obviously, I'm not a Navy SEAL by any means or anything but, like, that- that- that stuck with me and when I get in those moments, I think there's still 40 ... Like, that still sticks with me. 40% left. When I'm at my marathon and I'm at mile- mile 24, still 40% left sadly.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. I wonder, again, how many people would benefit from really formative experiences like that?
- JWJesse James West
You know-
- CWChris Williamson
It- it's such an opportunity for you to do it-
- JWJesse James West
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... as a college athlete, but most people get out of that. You know, I- I hear about, um, these alpha boot camp things that are happening.
- JWJesse James West
I know the owners.
- CWChris Williamson
And there's a bunch of them. Bedros has been on the show-
- JWJesse James West
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
... fully, and if you know him. Uh, and there's, it's kind of easy to mock online.
- JWJesse James West
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
Because the storyline tells you too much. I- i- it's just way too easy of a headline where-
- JWJesse James West
Yep. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... someone says, uh, "Man pays $10,000 to have dude with beard and full sleeve shout at him while he doesn't sleep." You know, it's a funny headline.
- JWJesse James West
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
But when you actually look at what those kind of formative experiences maybe teach you, and the fact that you got to learn that at 18-
- JWJesse James West
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... the reason that it's a bit, that people think it's a bit cringe, and it might be cringe, I'm not too sure. The reason that people think it's a bit cringe is, why are you at 45 needing this? Like, well, what if you've never had it before?
- JWJesse James West
Exactly.
- CWChris Williamson
What if you've never pushed yourself to that place before? Normal person, at what point in your life are you going beyond that 40% line that you think is your normal one? Y- even someone that runs a marathon, if they're preparing for six months or a full year for it, it should be a relatively sure thing unless you've got some sort of weird pathology and your heart blows up halfway across.
Episode duration: 1:41:55
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